1 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

2
if it wasn't for Newt, hundreds of thousands of Japanese would never have been nuked

3 Here's a thought: Let's just ENFORCE the rules that are already on the books.....

4 Social engineering we much.

5 Thats the dumbest pass the buck scheme Salamander ever came up with.

6
so it's kinda like super amnesty just like the super committee?

7 Are you reading my comments, Ace?  I mentioned this (in way less words, though) in (I think) the DOOM Thread.

Even better: Once they're "here legally" (because their Sanctuary City "review board" granted them amnesty), they've already jumped the first hurdle to Citizenship, and cut in front of millions of others who are trying to get in legally.  YAY!  Go Newt!

This may sound good, but it is nothing short of full amnesty- and, (better and better) full amnesty for all future illegals as well.  Double Win!

The more Newt is the front-runner, the more I remember why I didn't like him to begin with.  He's still my number 2, but only because he's !Romney.

8 Newt intends this as some outside-the-box radical transformative solution or whatever blah-blah he applies to his supposedly "cutting edge" ideas.


Anybody whose paid attention to what Newt's been doing since he quit as speaker knows a lot of his time has been spent talking so he can hear himself speak. He's become a big proponent of opening his mind until his brains fall out.

9

Didn't see the debate but if that is his idea then it is daft to say the least.

I know the kinds of issues some Germans had with the immigration people while working in this country. Law abiding with work visas but they were hounded every time they interacted with the feds.

10
What's this?

Don Berwick, the usurper, is stepping down?

11 What about illegal immigrants from, say, Pakistan? How would the Dearborn Community Board rule on such immigrants? Plus you would have CAIR intimidation and countless lawsuits around the country.

12

Good God, why can't anyone just go with the simple and obvious answer?  Deport those who are here illegally.  Simple.  Easy. 

Now, if you want "transformative" then may I suggest that first time offenders get a tatoo on their forearm, and upon the 2nd offense those thus marked be shot.  That would get the message across quickly.

13 Ok, so this is the 5th incarnation of AntiMitt now, he's only been riding high for a week, and bam. Back to the conservative Tardis I suppose. There are still a few incarnations left- a bug eyed old crazy, a stoner, an orange man from Utah, and then I suppose there is the one that can't remember his own first name.

14 I want a community board to decide which local troublemaker spends Saturday in the stocks downtown.

15 Like his Six Sigma bullshit, Newt's community boards idea just glosses over the fact that people just don't fucking agree.    No committee can eliminate conflict.  

16 Good God, why can't anyone just go with the simple and obvious answer?  Deport those who are here illegally.  Simple.  Easy.

Better answer (from an "electability" standpoint):  "Talk of what to do with people already here is so premature that it distracts from what our focus should be: how, in practical terms, do we secure our border and ensure that employers are complying with current labor law as it applies to the hiring of illegals?"

17 >>> Are you reading my comments, Ace? I mentioned this (in way less words, though) in (I think) the DOOM Thread. I didn't read that comment. I only read the comments in Drew's second thread so far.

18 14

Good God, why can't anyone just go with the simple and obvious answer?  Deport those who are here illegally.  Simple.  Easy. 

Salamander is into making the tough calls.

19 Ace, you make a good point.  Pogroms are best run from the top down, not via community policing.

20 My husband warned me Newt would do this.  He is brilliant, but then goes completely off the rails with some crazy idea.

21 I see nothing wrong with Newt's idea. What's the problem?

22 Never, NEVER overlook Teh Caribou Barbie.

23 Posted by: Home Owners Association President

Don't get me started on HOAs.

I didn't read that comment

I was kidding, ace.  Gee, I'm batting 0.0100 on the intentional humor today.

24 Steyn has a good article from 1998 on Newt. A little refresh course for those of us who have forgotten some of the old days in Washington.
Surprise! They were much the same as today!

25 Just realized, Newt is a lot like my boss (who likes Newt btw.)  - always some big fancy scheme to paper over intractable problems. Slay 'em with bullshitf for the win!

Maybe that's the only way to deal with them, I dunno.

26 I see a thousand points of order, sometimes deporting, sometimes importing - spreading the stuttering clusterfuck of miserable failure to every community in this great nation!

27 That one came out of the box labeled "Really, Really Big Ideas".

28 Don't they decide citizenship like that in Switzerland?

29 Not dumb at all. Fact is the federal government doesn't (can't) do the job of sifting through the who-is-who in your neighborhood. Follow his logic and the stable, long time illegal is only known by contacts in the community. A new illegal in the neighborhood is easy to spot and easier to deport. Draft boards were his (Newt's) example - they worked fine. As I recall, I was half way through basic when the local draft board offered me up in order to 'save' a deserving rich kid from the fate I selected for myself. I had no regrets and am sure Stevie enjoyed college.

30 He is brilliant, but then goes completely off the rails with some crazy idea.

That's the difference between a college professor and a real world executive.  In academia, a nutty idea just means you are cutting edge or at least have a fertile brain.  An executive must always remember that bad ideas have real, often catastrophic, consequences.  Newt is a great professor.

31 #33 So the executive would be the guy who thinks Syria is an OPEC kingmaker or the guy who can't remember his own name?

32 Is there a legitimate belief that any of them will shut down the border?  I do believe some will try harder than others but as far as believing that will actually happen?  Not so much.  That's not necessarily a slam on the candidates so much as a belief that the other side will do everything humanly possible to prevent that. Posted by: alexthechick at November 23, 2011 12:36 PM (VtjlW)

from the last post.

I'm curious how many agree?

33 Implanted chips in the palm. Carousel.
 
That's for the Progressive libs. I'm still working on my illegals platform.

34 @34  You have me confused with someone who thinks Cain is a viable candidate. 

Let's not revisit the previous thread.

35 As long as their swing sets have the proper setback and their vinyl siding doesn't corrupt community standards, they should be ok.

36 17 Like his Six Sigma bullshit, Posted by: jeanne! at November 23, 2011 01:03 PM (GdalM) BEHOLD! FOR I AM THE SEVENTH SIGMA!

37 >>>Like his Six Sigma bullshit, Newt's community boards idea just glosses over the fact that people just don't fucking agree. No committee can eliminate conflict. yeah that's a very cogent way to put it. If there are two positions, X and Not X, I want a candidate to tell me his position. Particularly if I am a strong proponent of one (let's say X). Dodges like this just basically say "We'll let a lot of other people decide between X and Not X." Well, that means I might wind up getting Not X -- which I don't want. I want X. And I want some procedure that guarantees me X, not a procedure that will likely (or even just maybe) wind up as Not X. It's like proposing a national referendum to resolve the issue. I will tend to support this idea if I'm pretty sure a referendum will go my way. If I think it will go against me, or may go against me, I'm less in favor of it. I am not in the "Deport them all" camp as many are. I don't think that is politically possible (or even necessarily desirable). But I do want to see a combination of some deportations, and many self-deportations due to attrition/ending illegal employment, and etc. To the extent we even begin talking about amnesty, I want the border secured first, and the pool of illegals greatly reduced, so that we're dealing with a much smaller pool (half the current number or smaller). Then we can start talking about what to do with the most determined illegal immigrants. But gingrich's idea is really just a disguised amnesty. It's just an amnesty where he wouldn't formally declare the amnesty; he would just punt that power to community boards, and they would grant amnesty to 95% of illegals.

38

Barack Hussein Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

I denounce myself.

39 I think the chance that this might pass congress is nil. Its really a dumb idea. But it sounds middle-of-the-roadish, between amnesty and deportation and I think thats the actual reasoning behind this proposal.

40 Better answer (from an "electability" standpoint): "Talk of what to do with people already here is so premature that it distracts from what our focus should be: how, in practical terms, do we secure our border and ensure that employers are complying with current labor law as it applies to the hiring of illegals?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 23, 2011 01:04 PM (8y9MW)

 

Yeah - I see what you mean - say whatever it takes to get the plebs to pull the right lever.  But when the time comes to actually govern, it's best to stick with solutions that are elegant in their simplicity.  Convoluted BS schemes are not to be encouraged.  No doubt people will bitch and moan, but once the illegals are out, they will no longer be voting Democrat.  Thus, it is a long-term winner to go with what we all know is right.  Round them up, ship them out, and don't be gentle about it.  Once unemployment drops 2% among the lower-skilled workers, all of a sudden folks in the real world will start to realize what a massive stinking drain those illegal bastards have been.  Imagine an America where you can go to the emergency room and not be stuck waiting behind 50 F-ing illegals.  Imagine not having to see them in the grocery store buying better steaks than you can afford with their damn food assistance card.  It's like something out of a dream.

Is there any system in this nation that is not totally FUBAR? 

 

41 So Newt wants a General Assembly in each community?

42 Two things I wish the candidates would address: 1. Why do people who have a favorable geographical location to the USA get a better immigration policy than those from other countries? 2. Why, as there should be in this case, is there not more push back against rules and regulations. If it isn't explicitly written in a law, then it isn't a law. Rules and regs are too whimsical, and for those that say the government needs the flexibility of rules and regs, I say hogwash. Change is supposed to be slow and methodical.

43 Is this idea crazy? Of course. Would I come up with crazier ideas if president? Absolutely. But I have 2 words for you : Wolf Romney.

44 I'm for anything that releases my third chakra.

45 You are correct sir!!!

46 he would just punt that power to community boards, and they would grant amnesty to 95% of illegals.

Now we won't.  Pinky swear.

47 Not only is the idea stupid, but I highly doubt it would pass constitutional muster.

48 it is very odd to say that ordinary citizens will essentially be elevated to the position of judge

Yes, indeed.  It is very sad when we have come to the point in our republic when that is odd.  I'd like a few more ordinary citizen judges, thanks.

49

The Chicago Public Schools instituted something called Local School Councils to run the local schools.  Imagine a school PTA with authority to hire and fire the principal, and spend the money appropriated to that school.

SURPRISE!!  The local school councils fired principals who did not suck up to them, or who were of a different race than the majority of the school's enrollment.  They installed their friends in highly paid positions at the school.  They spent the school's money on trips to foreign countries for school administrators, or by paying local community organizers to come into the school, organize the students and parents, and get paid a bundle (think ACORN type groups, I don't know if ACORN specifically benefitted but many ethnic-based community groups did).

Newt is even dumber than he looks if he thinks this is a good way to run immigration policy.  Dumbass.

50 Ace, Are there really that many people in the "deport them all" camp, or is that more a frustration with the fact so much enforcement is being ignored/delayed? Seriously, just asking.

51 without some kind of court-like structure, procedure, and guidance in decision-making.

Are you arguing that we have that now?  'Cause I don't see it.

52 Yeah - I see what you mean - say whatever it takes to get the plebs to pull the right lever.  But when the time comes to actually govern, it's best to stick with solutions that are elegant in their simplicity.

Actually, my point is that such a statement would be true.  Until we fix the border, we can deport as many of them as we want- and they'll just come right back as soon as they can.

The entire discussion of deportation/no deportation/targeted deportation is a distraction from the actual problem in front of us: how do we control the border, and how do we ensure that employers are not willfully hiring illegal immigrants.  Until and unless we fix those to areas, deportation won't solve anything.

53 The best we can hope for from any canddate is securing the border. It's the right thing to do, and voters will go for it. Newt supports that so the rest is just election noise that will not happen, the same as any "deport 'em all" pandering.

54 But I have 2 words for you : Wolf Romney. Posted by: Newt Gingrich at November 23, 2011 01:11 PM (Sh42X) I'll do you one better: Willard Blitzer!

55

Are there really that many people in the "deport them all" camp, or is that more a frustration with the fact so much enforcement is being ignored/delayed?

Seriously, just asking.

 

 

We're America.  We do the impossible.  We can deport them all. 

56 After thinking about it, I guess I have to admit that giving local residents the authority to decide the makeup of their local area is a dangerously silly idea.

Things like that are best left to national panels comprised of really smart people appointed by the single smartest person -- like Obama, or maybe even Holder, or somebody.

57 Newt would call this a "radical, transformative solution that shows a fundamental empowerment of the citizenry" or whatever. I call it daffy. I also call it a violation of the Equal Protection of the Laws clause, since every "board" will have it's own procedures, criteria, etc. THIS is what is wrong with Newt as POTUS. Sure, he can be a great debater, and he can come up with interesting ideas. He's also highly erratic, and can come up with weird crap like this, or his Sybian ride with Pelosi. Maybe his turn as Flavor of the Month will be shorter than I thought.

58 Oh, and I think it's an awful idea for the reasons you point out, Ace, and many many more.

I just keep doing my part to undermine the corrupt legal profession and their role as our self-appointed ersatz nobility.

59

@ 14  Good God, why can't anyone just go with the simple and obvious answer?  Deport those who are here illegally.  Simple.  Easy. 

We CAN'T do that.  And you're a horrible, horrible person for even suggesting it.

60 Gingrich proposes, goofilly, that we'll have "Community Boards" to decide on whether or not illegal immigrants within specific communities will be granted amnesty or deported.
_____________

You know who else had "community boards" deciding whether kulaks should be re-educated deported? That's right: Stalin!

61 I remember the draft boards of yore. Bring them back for illegals? Hell no.

As for this plan, anyone who doesn't realize this is amnesty round IV is stupid.

62 The reality is Newt is right (and Romney in the video clip of the previous post). We have to have something where we legalize people who have been here for years and are integrated members of society. Actually accomplishing that is a minefield. Amnesty basically spells a heavily Democratic future (that's a big "D") on the federal level. Some kind of legalization, where you don't give voting rights, would be good. But I'm not sure how you work that out. "You have to immigrate legally to vote" ?

63 I think before ANY solution, whatever it is, to the status of the illegals already here is resolved, the Borders Must Be Sealed. I think much of the opposition to the amnesty would dissipate, if only people had some assurance that pardoning 12 million today wouldn't automatically mean another 30 million tomorrow.

64 Newt could be onto something if tv made a reality show out of it. Let the viewers decide who gets voted out of the country. Ratings gold.

65 Are there really that many people in the "deport them all" camp, or is that more a frustration with the fact so much enforcement is being ignored/delayed?

Seriously, just asking.

You don't have to.  The IRS doesn't audit everybody, do they?

66

We're America.  We do the impossible.  We can deport them all. 

Posted by: garrett at November 23, 2011 01:15 PM (f7VXx)

You bet yer ass we could. And control the borders too. All that is lacking is a political will to do it. We may not get them all, but we would be able to get 90% + and many would just leave when they saw the ADIOS on the wall.

67 After thinking about it, I guess I have to admit that giving local residents the authority to decide the makeup of their local area is a dangerously silly idea.

What is there to decide?  This isn't some question of "oooo, that guy gives me the creeps, he can't stay!" (or, it shouldn't be).  He is attempting to abdicate to "local community groups" a duty of the Federal Government- immigration enforcement.  He wants it done by committee, so that when the amnesty (which he's for by implication, if not by admission) comes to pass, he can wash his hands of it and say, "Well, it may not be how I would have chosen, but these panels are selected from their communities, so they must represent the community interest."

And that's still getting away from the fact that it places the focus on something that can't happen until we take care securing our borders.  Something on which Newt spent somewhere on the order of 5 seconds.

68 68 Newt could be onto something if tv made a reality show out of it. Let the viewers decide who gets voted out of the country. Ratings gold. Posted by: brak at November 23, 2011 01:17 PM (DFzES) Perhaps some sort of gladiatorial contest, with the survivors earning a 3 year reprieve from deportation...

69 Here's an idea: Have everyone clear out of the country at the same time, making sure to bring their I'd with them. Then, one by one, we let those back in who can prove their citizen or legal resident status. That's what they do during school fire drills.

70 What is really about this amazing stupid idea is that he actually had a good recommendation in one of the previous debates.

That was to turn over the verification program to a credit card company and get it away from the incompetent government.

But the problems with that was that he didn't go back with a punishment for people who knowingly hire illegals. That is the only way we will ever stop illegals coming in.

71 fine employers heavily for hiring illegals.
cut off ss , food stamps, gvt aid with exception of medical in an emergency .
no need to deport.

ask those that cannot find work that are here illegally to leave and if they still want to be a citizens come back through the front door apply for citizenship go through the requirements as all others should/must. welcome those that come through the front door and follow our laws.

72 We're America. We do the impossible. We can deport them all. Posted by: garrett at November 23, 2011 01:15 PM (f7VXx) I believe we could. I just don't see even the most racist racist arguing for a forced deportation when simply shutting off the ID/welfare fraud spigot would do. Well, OK - maybe the most racist racist would want to do that, but I think most racists are just as lazy as every other person and would rather let the laws of economics just do the job for them.

73 74 What is really about this amazing stupid idea is that he actually had a good recommendation in one of the previous debates. That's the problem with him: too many damned ideas. Some good, some nuttier than a squirrel.

74 My local commission has decided to deport Newt.

75 Perhaps some sort of gladiatorial contest, with the survivors earning a 3 year reprieve from deportation...

And make the winner enlist in a branch of the military for two years before citizenship is granted.

76 The reality is Newt is right (and Romney in the video clip of the previous post). We have to have something where we legalize people who have been here for years and are integrated members of society. Actually accomplishing that is a minefield.

No, we don't.  If you're here illegally, you're here illegally.  I might (might) be convinced that you don't need to be specifically deported, but you don't get legal status.

Some kind of legalization, where you don't give voting rights, would be good.

But any kind of legalization will, in fact, lead to voting rights.  Not because we'll grant non-citizens (legal resident aliens can't vote) voting rights, but because, once you're here legally, you jump to the head of the line to gain your citizenship.  Any "path to legalization" is, by definition, also a "path to citizenship."

77 >>>I also call it a violation of the Equal Protection of the Laws clause, since every "board" will have it's own procedures, criteria, etc. Right. Consider an immigrant saying "I work hard, I want to stay here." What if a citizen says he's heard this immigrant is a drug mule? Does he get to offer this hearsay testimony? I mean, come on. Without evidentiary standards, what are these things? Just a free for all? "I saw him picking up a whore on the corner one time." "I heard he beats his girlfriend." Is this stuff allowed, or not? is this a court or not? I ask because ultimately the decision they're making is of a level of seriousness (deportation vs. amazing government benefit) that we usually have courts deciding them. So now we're going to make serious decisions ad hoc and on the fly? it's goofy. I don't even think we should bother talking about it because it PLAINLY will NEVER, EVER happen, and that's why it's being pushed on us. A dumb dodge we can talk about so we don't notice the real question is being evaded.

78

We can buy the groceries for 47 million Americans each and every week?

...we can find and remove 20-30 million illegal aliens.

79 What if 12,000,000 people decide to move into houses that are not theirs? Do we let them all stay in these homes, let some stay and lock some up or do we book them all on property theft and get them all out of these homes? Same principal ... Therefore, per alexthedude's question, Deport them all!

80 There have been at least 7 different amnesty programs, all failures if the goal was to stop new illegal immigration. There was one massive deportation, Operation Wetback, conducted under Eisenhower. It too failed.
 
Controlling the border first is the only answer that gets us close to a solution, whatever that may be. But community boards are definitely not the solution. It's not like US residents ever move around in this country, eh? For migrant farm workers, it's practically mandatory.

81

"At best, it's a dodge, permitting Gingrich to not really take a position on the matter, but instead punt the decision to his fellow citizens. He can claim this is some kind of transformative empowerment (blah-blah), but really he's abdicating his own responsibility for a clear articulation of his own position."

 

Of course its a dodge. The campaign will be about the economy not immigration. So dodge it in a manner that independents and embarassed demos will feel good with. Jeebus folks, this is fucking politics.

82 61 I also call it a violation of the Equal Protection of the Laws clause, since every "board" will have it's own procedures, criteria, etc.
__________

Just think of the boards as laboratories of totalitarianism democracy. Some will work better than others. Once we find the ones that work well, we can federalize them.

83

@ 60 After thinking about it, I guess I have to admit that giving local residents the authority to decide the makeup of their local area is a dangerously silly idea.

Problem is, most illegals don't stay put.  They'll stay just long enough to get "legalised," and then it's back off to whatever Home Depot parking lot has the best donuts.

Further, if there are questions about the constitutionality of state laws that merely replicate federal laws already on the books because of (pseudo)concerns about infringing the Congress' constitutional prerogative over immigration issues, then how much less constitutional can it be to let *local boards* completely usurp Congress' power?

84

Look it here, chumps, the only board we need for them illegal immigrants is a giant surfboard to send 'em back to San Juan or wherever the hell they're from. 

Every illegal immigrant in this country needs to be deported.  Round 'em up, put 'em on the trains, or the giant surfboards, and then ship 'em all back to El Honduras.  If they married a U.S. citizen then deport the spouse.  If they had kids here then deport the kids too.  If they've been paying income, Social Security, Medicare, property and sales taxes for 20 years, well, heh, the joke's on them, chumps, let's keep all their money and deport them anyways.  If they claim some legal defense to deportation that's no concern, 'cause we should do away with them immigration courts too.  Do process only applies to true and pure white Christian conservatives.

Deport all the illegals.  Build the wall.  Spend less money.  Reduce the size of the federal government.  Make it pronto, chumps, I ain't got all day.

Bachmann-Cain, '12.  Illegals are our bitches!

85 ....we can call it the National Fire Drill. "Lady Liberty's torch is blinking red. Everybody out! Go to Ontario, Canada and wait for further instructions."

86

@ 76 I believe we could. I just don't see even the most racist racist arguing for a forced deportation when simply shutting off the ID/welfare fraud spigot would do.

Well, OK - maybe the most racist racist would want to do that, but I think most racists are just as lazy as every other person and would rather let the laws of economics just do the job for them.

So why is it racist to deport them, but not racist to make them leave by cutting off welfare benefits?

87

But...but...Perry called us heartless!! Corpulent, global warming believing policy wonk Gingrich is the True Conservative that will lead us to victory!

Gingrich/Cain 2012  First we grab amnesty's crotch then we quickly divorce it!

88 Here's an idea: Have everyone clear out of the country at the same time, making sure to bring their I'd with them. Then, one by one, we let those back in who can prove their citizen or legal resident status. That's what they do during school fire drills. Posted by: Serious Cat at November 23, 2011 01:19 PM (gYFEE) ----------------------------------------------------------- Stupid idea. It would leave America un-tethered and it would float into space.

89 We can buy the groceries for 47 million Americans each and every week? ...we can find and remove 20-30 million illegal aliens. Posted by: garrett at November 23, 2011 01:22 PM (f7VXx) /sock And just like getting groceries on their own, if we shut off the job/welfare spigot illegals will get out on their own, too. No finding required. Finding can happen over time like it does with everything else - audits, traffic tickets, accidents, drug busts, etcetcetc. Self-deportation will be faster, cheaper, and more voluminous than other methods combined. Probably by a long ways.

90 Damn. I thought Proudonkey had left.

91 OK, the draft board idea is crazy. Let's kill them all and let GOD sort them out.

92 How long until Newt busts out the John McCain, "You can call it whatever you want, call it a banana. But it is not amnesty!" rant?

Time to remind you all that for all you "not-Romney" folks: It wasn't Perry's positions that soured everyone, it was superficial shit.

And, I'm going to have to laugh at all you who got sand in your vagina over the heartless comment and swooned into Newt's arms--now that he's announced he is to the left of Perry on illegal immigration.

And if you dare bring up Cain, let me point out that here in reality, the biggest supporters of illegal immigration (after the Dems) is big business. You know, groups who's members hire a lot of cheap labor, say, perhaps, a national restaurant association.

93 I find this discussion to be a non-issue because Professor Obama has assured me he has it all distilled down to an elegant solution.

94

We don't have to deport anybody and we don't need to spend billions on the border except for the drug and terrorism thing.

What we need to do is simple, so simple I can't understand why we haven't already done it.

1. A tamper proof social security card.

2. Long jail terms for anyone hiring someone without one.

3. A guest worker program for agriculture. This could be avoided if we would cut off aid to able body citizens of this country and tell them to go to work. We could even bus them to work and give them temporary housing.

95 Make like a tree, an get outta here.

96 No top headlines today?

97 They all suck.

At this point it's about figuring out who sucks the least and has the most potential upside.

98 We have deemed this town's immigration policy to be. Loading illegals into a giant trebuchet, launching them out of town and those that can walk back get to stay.

99 At this point it's about figuring out who sucks the least and has the most potential upside. Posted by: DrewM. at November 23, 2011 01:29 PM (dw7rB) ============================== I am not known as someone who sucks.

100 Have to post this every time someone calls for “reform”.

Yes we need immigration reform, but NOT what has been rolled out the last half dozen times. Every bill that has come out since the first major rewrite in 1965 has basically been amnesty and open invitation for illegals to flood across the border.

We are no longer the country of the 19th century with vast open areas in the West. Our cities are overcrowded shit holes run by corrupt communist hacks AND there is no longer a vast area open for the inhabitants to flee to and take up farming.

This is not to mention that we have entire towns in CA with a population > 20,000 in which none of the citizens speak English.  The current crew of "immigrants" do not appear to desire to assimilate and the current crowd of liberals do not think they should. The schools have gone from teaching America as a mixing pot to America as a salad bowl where "diversity" is celebrated and heritage counts for all, unless you have a European heritage then you are a racist.

Yes, there are a lot of things that need to be done to "fix" our immigration laws.  The first one of these should be to repeal that POS of Amnesty Round I that got us where we are today.

We need immigration law that does the following AND that is enforced:

1. Eliminate the BS anchor baby interpretation by providing a definition of what the term “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” means, which is not dashing across the border to deliver a baby.  Personally, I would require that at least one of the parents of any child born in the U.S. be a citizen before that child was eligible for “birthright” citizenship. If not, then the child would have to undergo naturalization.
2. Provide a reliable means for employers to check the status of employees.
3. Provide severe punishments for knowingly hiring illegals (or reckless disregard). That punishment should include jail time for repeat violations.  
4. Eliminate ALL benefits for illegals including schools for children.
5. Rewrite legal immigration to allow in immigrants with a desirable education and/or skill set and arrange the waiting list to have the most skilled/educated at the top of the list. (Australian system) Also include a check for communicable diseases (as we did in the past) and provide for immunization. Immigrants from countries on the list of terror support need not apply.
6. For groups that already have large populations in the U.S. who have not assimilated, reduce the allowable numbers until they do (eliminate whole towns that do not speak English)
7. Provide severe penalties for mules.
8. Provide the death penalty for people involved in sex slavery.
9. Eliminate all forms of asylum. That system has been abused to the point of making it a joke. Any true case that needs to be let in should be a case by case special act passed by congress. Get them on record.
10. Immigrants who become involved in any serious crime prior to becoming a citizen should be deported back to their home country.
11. Absolutely no dual citizenship allowed.

101

At this point it's about figuring out who sucks the least and has the most potential upside.

 

Corndog eating contest?

102 simply shutting off the ID/welfare fraud spigot ...IS ALL WE HAVE TO DO. that's it. just that.

103

>>>At this point it's about figuring out who sucks the least and has the most potential upside.

They are going to be one termer with the economy the way it is. Not sure how that might factor ino it, but Perry being the biggest asshole might get the most done as far as slashing gub'ment in the four years he has.

104 why does it seem too much to ask others to follow the law ?
why do we have to have this discussion at all?
countries have immigration laws, so do we. why is it racist to say. get immigration forms wait your turn.
and welcome those that complete the recommendations?

105
meanwhile...

bilingual election ballots

106 Make them all become journalists as a condition for legal residency.  It's the one job Americans clearly won't do.

107 Anyone who has ever had to get a zoning variance should shudder at the thought of local control of peoples lives like that.  I'm too young to remember draft boards but I'm sure they made some people rich.  They had to because it's human nature.  And not for nothin' but making membership in a church a criteria is just too stupid to take seriously.

108 At this point it's about figuring out who sucks the least and has the most potential upside.

Posted by: DrewM. at November 23, 2011 01:29 PM (dw7rB)

That's why I find it so "ironic" when people cry about "purity" when they are opposed to someone criticizing Romney. The only "purists" we have in this cycle are the ones who want pure liberal.

109 Ace, Here is an ass-kicking of Newt's position by Mark Krikorian that casts it in a far worse light than merely daft.

110 The thing is, this is vintage Gingrich. He packages a stupid idea like it's an out-of-the-box solution and trumpets it because it sounds innovative.  He doesn't test it, he doesn't even reason it out, he just spouts it.

And he uses his professorial manner to make it sound awesome.

Then people think about it, and throw it against the wall and it doesn't stick.  It doesn't come close to sticking.

Then he forgets about it and goes onto the next "solution".  Great approach for a DARPA researcher, but the president is supposed to be the filter, not the innovator.

111 And if you dare bring up Cain, let me point out that here in reality, the biggest supporters of illegal immigration (after the Dems) is big business. You know, groups who's members hire a lot of cheap labor, say, perhaps, a national restaurant association. Posted by: Jimmuy at November 23, 2011 01:27 PM (fzG4W) The dirty secret of the pro-illegal immigration crowd - the one that lives on Martha's Vineyard - is that they benefit from keeping illegals illegal... their businesses get to hire sub-minimum, slave-wage labor for their factories, gardens, and homes. In many ways, illegal immigration is the price we pay for the consequences of our own stupid policies: we need the illegals to make up for all the millions of Americans we've aborted over the decades, and we need them to escape the economic consequences of our minimum wage and other labor laws.

112 110
meanwhile...

bilingual election ballots

Posted by: soothsayer at November 23, 2011 01:33 PM (lt4Ab)

What?  Only two languages?

113 Yeah, that's a new feature to his plan. And it's dumb. And it won't happen. So, I'm not that concerned.

I'm all for dismantling government but this isn't the place to do it.  Controlling the borders and immigration is an actual job that the Feds should do.

That being said: he's not Romney!

114 Also as it's been pointed out, the red card idea is a non starter unless they change the birthright citizenship interpretation. Or if the Red card excludes women and not just the ugly one's.

115 It is, as they say, something so dumb only an intellectual could believe it.

I bet Rick Perry doesn't believe it!

116 11. Absolutely no dual citizenship allowed Why?

117 Yeah, that's a new feature to his plan. And it's dumb. And it won't happen. So, I'm not that concerned.

I am. If by some miracle calamity he did get elected and proposed a plan like this it wouldn't get passed but something else would.

Another round of damn McCain-Kennedy. And he would sign it and say "its what the peeeeples want".

118 As Ace mentioned @82, the decisions Newt wants to leave to the local community are serious ones. Besides equal protection to ensure that everyone gets treated the same using the same national standards (and yes, it has to be national standards because it is well settled that citizenship is an federal issue) there are also due process concerns that have to be met (which applies to the illegals through the 14th) because government benefits have been deemed a property right that cannot be taken without due process.

So, as stupid as it is just thinking through the legal aspects, as I mentioned on the other thread, there will be mountains of regulations and paperwork to determine who meets the "been here a long time, has ties to the community" standard. To say nothing of the army of new bureaucrats and agencies needed.

Gee, that Newt, he really is a small government conservative!

119 The dirty secret of the pro-illegal immigration crowd - the one that lives on Martha's Vineyard - is that they benefit from keeping illegals illegal... their businesses get to hire sub-minimum, slave-wage labor for their factories, gardens, and homes.

Oh, God that is so true.  They'll say, "Well who do you get to landscape your garden and clean your swimming pool and...oh, yes, well...how about your house?  Who cleans your house?"

Yeah.

Replace "illegal immigrant" with "slave" and the arguments in favor don't change a whole hell of a lot.

we need the illegals to make up for all the millions of Americans we've aborted over the decades, and we need them to escape the economic consequences of our minimum wage and other labor laws.

Another great point.

120 The Red Card idea is dumb and won't happen either. Just extent the time frame to apply for citizenship to double what it normally is and up the fees.

121

How can these scum turn against their rightful lord?

I cannot let them gain my stealth fighter technology.

Launch a full spread of missile directly into the Gora'khar shipyard!

122
yeah, pretty much only two languages

The Democrats don't really care about the few people from Timbuktu. It's all about the spanish-speaking vote. Dems aren't even trying to keep it a secret,

123 Why?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 23, 2011 01:39 PM (vzFJV)

Dual citizenship was prohibited up until the 60s when this shit started. As the founders put it, you owed your allegiance to this country or not. (not exact quote).

124 How long until Newt busts out the John McCain, "You can call it whatever you want, call it a banana. But it is not amnesty!" rant?

I'm kind of waiting for him to come out with some sort of off-the-cuff insult to conservatives, a la his "right-wing social engineering" crap.

125

This really isn't that complicated.

1. Control the border but more importantly establish tough laws and harsh penalties on those who employ illegals, whether they do so knowingly or by turning a blind eye. Make the punishment severe enough that employing illegals becomes more trouble than it's worth.

2. Change the laws at the federal level such that only citizens and permanent US residents age 18 or older qualify for welfare.

3. If you want to not be "heartless," you could establish some type of visa program through which illegals could come forward, pay a significant fine, and undergo a criminal history check including submission of fingerprints and a DNA sample. Anyone who checks out would be allowed to stay for a limited period but would not be eligible for a green card or citizenship unless they returned to their home country and applied through the normal process. Those who failed the criminal history check would be subject to the criminal process.

4. Illegals who choose not to comply with #3 would not be actively pursued but when identified would be deported for the first offense and barred from returning to the US for any reason. If they are caught back in the US they would be imprisoned for a few years, then deported. Any offense after that would result in greater prison terms.

#1 and #2 will take care of a lot of the problem. #3 offers those who are otherwise productive and law-abiding the opportunity to remain here on our terms and be taxed while also eliminating welfare opportunities and the short-cut to citizenship.

126 #121 EOJ because citizenship should require an oath of loyalty to your country. You can't split loyalty.

127 Democratic Strategist on FNC declares a that Gingrich's answer was better because Perry was "inarticle" about compassion. But Gingrich will have to walk back his statement and reinforce his conservative "bona-feedees".

128 Looking back on it now it is true that Newts idea is silly- and yet it occurred to no other candidate to say that that idea was daft, unworkable and if it was to work would be killed stone dead by an activist judge ( Prop 187 in CA). Newts not perfect but the rest of the field is literally brain dead when it comes to thinking on their feet.

129 My plan(s) are way better Ya'll.

Gig Em'

130

Newt would call this a "radical, transformative solution that shows a fundamental empowerment of the citizenry" or whatever. I call it daffy.

Rabbit Season!

131 Dual citizenship was prohibited up until the 60s when this shit started. As the founders put it, you owed your allegiance to this country or not. (not exact quote). Oh, really? Then abolish the exit tax on net worth and I'll be on my way.

132 That being said: he's not Romney!

Yup, not Romney, but it's getting hard to make the distinction.

133 No dual citizenship? And what about Americans that work and live abroad for decades but plan to return home at some point in their lives? You going to strip their citizenship? Good luck with that.

134 Maybe some of you should read Newt's plan before you decide it's crazy. It's all spelled out at his website (newt.org) and the requirements are pretty stiff--too many to list during the debate. Illegals would be barred from citizenship, and could only get legal resident status, after meeting a ton of requirements AND paying a $5000 fine. Requirements: Pass criminal background check Investigation to prove long-term family and community ties Must be able to support self without SS, Medicaid, or other entitlements Must be able to pay for own health insurance Must become proficient in English All of this is to be regularly re-examined to make sure that requirements are still being met; otherwise legal status will be discontinued. He also emphasizes that we must control the border FIRST, and that English should be our official language. Maybe community boards aren't the best idea. Maybe that part of it needs to be changed. But anyone who confuses this with amnesty programs hasn't really thought this through.

135 By the way, where I live, I wouldn't want a local board to decide what color to paint a fire hydrant.

136 Posted by: jjshaka at November 23, 2011 01:43 PM (413sW)

It is kind of funny/sad that a few on the blog (me, I'm pretty sure vic, and a few others) only heard about this on a thread this morning and could say, within just a few minutes, that it was complete crap and beyond merely stupid- and yet politicians who have, ostensibly, studied the matter at least some couldn't immediately bring up even one of the myriad points we have.

But, the fact that they couldn't look at this and say it's stupid on its face does not make them any worse than him, it just means they couldn't (or didn't trust themselves to) deconstruct the argument on the fly- at least, not before they'd moved on to something else.

Strangely enough, being able to come up with sweeping policy on-the-fly is not something I'm looking for in my President, so that doesn't really bother me.

137 http://www.borderimmigrationlawyer.com/expedited-removal/

Aliens don't always get a court hearing, they can be administratively ordered removed.

138 Keith Olbermann exposes Billionaire BloombergÂ’s FAKE TERROR PLOT!

Thanks Keith. We all thought the terror plot and the “car blowing up” was fake and just a way for the Billionaire to protect his image, because we certainly know the Billionaire could care less if those at OWS are being brutalized by his police force! Oh, and the Billionaire can’t stand the fact that other Americans are using their First Amendment rights of free speech and assembly in his city! JP Morgan Chase is the one who paid to have the car blown up in the video to complete the “terrifying image”! We know it’s not the first time JP Morgan Chase and Billionaire Bloomberg have worked together against the Occupiers…

 

*SPIT!*

139 The solution to our illegal's problem is to invade and take over Mexico. Simple as that. Them eliminate welfare. No work, no food. Handle the drug cartels in a couple of battles, osama style. Next.

140 131 #121 EOJ because citizenship should require an oath of loyalty to your country. You can't split loyalty. Posted by: polynikes- Texan for Romney at November 23, 2011 01:42 PM (LNRLz) When my parents got their USA citizenship, they were required to sign a statement renouncing their Czechoslovak citizenship - then they had to pay the Commies money to recognize the denunciation, so they could travel to the Old Country without fear of being unable to leave again. I never signed anything of the sort (I was just 14 at the time), and for all I know I could claim to be a Czech citizen anytime I feel like it. I know of at least one American of Israeli birth that was given a hard time for not traveling on an Israeli passport when he last visited. His American-born son had to pass on a scholarship for a visit to Israel because they consider him a citizen because his dad was born there - even though even the dad is an American Israeli. The US government really can't dictate to another government whether or not to consider someone their own citizen.

141 #121 EOJ because citizenship should require an oath of loyalty to your country. You can't split loyalty. At what age would you require Americans to pledge their loyalty? What penalty for refusal?

142 here's a "radical" solution for illegal immgration - enforce the laws already on the books!!!

143 I say again: Read today's Steyn.

144 122 Yeah, that's a new feature to his plan. And it's dumb. And it won't happen. So, I'm not that concerned.

I am. If by some miracle calamity he did get elected and proposed a plan like this it wouldn't get passed but something else would.

Another round of damn McCain-Kennedy. And he would sign it and say "its what the peeeeples want".

Posted by: Vic at November 23, 2011 01:39 PM (YdQQY)

Yeah, it bothers the hell out of me that he even proposed it. Just like how Cain's national sales tax is a shitty idea even if it will never happen. Because it opens the door to the Dems to propose a stand-alone sales tax and we're left with a pile of shit in our hand trying to say our sales tax proposal that our Presidential candidate proposed is good but their sales tax proposal is bad.

Same thing, it puts us in the worst possible position of trying to argue that our amnesty is good but their amnesty is bad. 

It's even worse here because we've already (stupidly) elevated Newt to the "intellectual leader" of the GOP. So yes, this shit is already going to come back and bite us in the ass (while Newt sells some more books and takes another million dollar gulp from the federal trough).

145 Uh, that last "American Israeli" s/b "American citizen," damn it...

146 Well, I can only offer my personal experience as a legal immigrant to this country almost 12 years ago. Came here on a student visa for graduate studies, got a job via a H-1 work visa, a few years later a green card and a few years after that, citizenship. So, all in all I spent around $10,000 in fees and it took around 10.5 years from the time I arrived in the USA. I came from a rat-hole Muslim country, so had no desire to hold a dual citizenship (a stupid concept I think) and am very proud to be a US citizen. I do have to say, the expenses involved and the INS paperwork is probably quite daunting for many legal immigrants; illegals who can barely speak English are probably going to find the system impossible to navigate. Not offering an excuse here, just my observations.

147 You know you want it.

148 Posted by: Burke at November 23, 2011 01:46 PM (wmdMN)

That doesn't make it any better.  All of it would require the establishment of yet another mammoth bureaucracy to run (yeah, that's a good idea /s), and then there are the obvious problems (migrant workers, by definition, would not have "long roots in the community," but that doesn't make them any less deserving of this amnesty than any other "otherwise law abiding" illegal alien), and the less obvious problems (Equal Protection, the fact that any of the stuff that would make it semi-palatable would be left out, and so forth).

Sorry, it's a stupid plan that gets yet stupider the more I examine it.

149 Glad to have you aboard IC!

150 Where your nightmares end

WILLARD BEGINS

http://tinyurl.com/762cade

151 Gee.. I guess it must say something about Newt's intellect that he can burn out his lead in record time.. It took Cain almost a month!

He's too smart by half.

152 Welcome to America, IC. Those round things in the urinals aren't mints. Leave 'em alone.

153 The 5.something% unemployment rate in Mexico is self-deporting a lot of illegals. Just keep SCOAMF 4 more years and maybe all 12 million will be gone!

154 "Ah, the famous Gingrich wit.  Or half of it, anyway."

155 158 Gee.. I guess it must say something about Newt's intellect that he can burn out his lead in record time.. It took Cain almost a month!

He's too smart by half.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 23, 2011 01:55 PM (f9c2L)

Newt's smart enough that he's going to explain himself coherently.  So if you really hate what he has to say you'll know it because its explained.  Most of Cain's stuff would just leave people going "yeah um ok..."

156 And, lest it be forgotten:

Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

157 #148 EOJ as CoolCzech indicated, the USA can't dictate whether another country wants to give citizenship without the person requesting it. My position is that it is assumed your loyalty as a citizen until such time you attempt to become a citizen of another country. At that time you should not be able to hold American citizenship.

158 I do have to say, the expenses involved and the INS paperwork is probably quite daunting for many legal immigrants; illegals who can barely speak English are probably going to find the system impossible to navigate. Not offering an excuse here, just my observations. Posted by: IC
.........
Thanks for your insight, IC.

But.. it should be hard to become a citizen. Many other countries around the world make it next to impossible to do so

That said.. $10k can be quite a barrier to many.  I assume that was mostly legal fees for help navigating the system?

159 Jeez. Just because an idea like the Community Boards wouldn't make it into a final immigration bill doesn't mean the final bill would be McCain/Kennedy.

In fact there's absolutely no correlation whatsoever.

And even if it did it has nothing to do with citizenship. Theoretically (which is all this idea is) the boards would be determining who gets to stay in the country.

If Newt is elected he's going to say things that pop in his brain. Because both his brain and his mouth work properly. When he proposes legislation he will have written legislation (literally). He has actually plans on his website that have made it past the spitballing stage. You can read them.

I can tell some people are going to have nervous breakdowns getting used to Newt.

160 Link to Steyn's column (that Pecos has been referencing). 

161 Posted by: IC at November 23, 2011 01:50 PM (jZNCU)
 
You came here legally, maintained your legal status throughout, and are now a US citizen. Welcome. Glad to have you here.
 
The issue that gets glossed over by the Dems is legal vs illegal. My guess is that very few, if any posters here object to legal immigration.

162 Thanks Y- not. I don't know how to put up links.

163 Can't we talk about real issues?

164 Citizens have always made these kinds of judgments. They are called jury verdicts. The idea that judges are somehow elevated above a jury of citizens is perverse and an anathema to the American philosophy.

165 The solution to our illegal's problem is to invade and take over Mexico.

No thanks. If we did that, there'd be all manner of demands for more of our hard-earned dollars to be sent there in service of "nation-building" to fix what those assholes couldn't do right.

166 Damn. got the wrong link.

167 But when I wasn't really paying attention to what Newt was saying, it sounded like such a great idea!

168 He is trying to pull obama voters.  do you think you can reach them with logic?

169 @ 164, Still not good enough. If you are a U.S. citizen, you are a citizen. You can hold 5 other passports and you're still a US citizen. Let me tell you something, chum. There are TWO countries that tax your worldwide income on the basis of your citizenship, not your residency. One of them is North Korea. Any guesses on the other? America ignores other citizenships or where you reside when it comes to taxing your fucking money. That's not enough for you? It'll have to be, because this ultra-nationalistic shit is a non-starter.

170 Newt's response and technocratic pontifications insured one thing...that I can't and won't vote for him.  The fact that a bunch of moron bloggers and posters could find the huge gaping hole in his solution within about 20 minutes of his answer speaks to his blind spot for believing that government is the answer, as long as he is in charge. 

171 GET ON THE MITT TRAIN BEFORE THE OBAMA TRAIN ROLLS ON AND OVER YOU (TOO).

172

Around 1994 I read "The Third Wave" by Alvin Toffler because Newt recommended it. That's the kind of book Newt loves-prescient talk about transforming society in the future. Some of what Toffler talked about has started to take shape, in the book the technology to transform society is sort of left up in the air but that tech is available now. Turns out, the third wave is everyone gets to have a lifestyle career.  

I bought into Newt's BS, the 10 ideas a day thing. But the thing is, whether I loved the idea or not, Newt NEVER implemented any of them. It got really tedious after a while. Oh great, Newt's just had another insightful and brilliant thought. Maybe he'll actually do soemthing with it this time. No, never did.

Newt's just a spitball machine. That's all. Picture a wall with spitballs and various random things stuck to it and the floor beneath littered with spitballs and debris. That wall is Newt's mind.

I can't stand listening to this fat ass fuckwad anymore. Head to toe, he's full of bullshit. Ignore him.

173 Allen G-- Newt has also proposed a separate guest worker program for migrant laborers. Deporting everyone would also require a large expansion of government, so I think that aspect is a wash.

174
ParisPrius is Ann Coulter?

175 Posted by: ParisParamus at November 23, 2011 02:11 PM (dij/b)

F*CK THAT

176 IC, i think the barriers to getting citizenship are a feature, not a bug.  And, if the amnesty by 10 million cuts wasn't such a sham, your situation would be view properly as an excellent filter we have every right and responsibility to have in place to control immigration flows and patterns. 

And, isn't rat-hole Muslim country redundant?  I kid I kid.  Welcome and kudos to you for going about things the right way in that regard.

177
Paris, why so serious all the time now?

You haven't joked or sockpuppeted in months.

178 Good god... there are two candidates that I absolutely cannot support, and they're the "frontrunners"...

179 GET ON THE MITT TRAIN BEFORE THE OBAMA TRAIN ROLLS ON AND OVER YOU (TOO).

I'll just step to the side if you don't mind.

180 It is daft, and I don't like it. I hope Rick Perry can recover some of his mojo, but if not, I'll likely still support Newt in Michigan's primary.

181
The Obama Train is "high speed" just like the Chevy Volt has a long range.

182 Americans should be prohibited from traveling outside the US. What the fuck would you need to do that for, pinko? You're buying shrimp caught in Vietnamese waters? It's disloyal to send your dollars to foreigners you fuckin' commie. Americans should be required to wear some snazzy fuckin uniforms made with 100% American. Fucking. Cotton.

183 Deporting everyone would also require a large expansion of government, so I think that aspect is a wash.

Ah.  Another red herring.  Good one.

There are some, I'll admit, who advocate "Deport everyone."  My point has been, and will continue to be: "Anyone who is talking about amnesty or deportation at this point is attempt to distract from the actual subject- immigration enforcement."

I'll also point out that very, very few do advocate "Deport everyone."  The best, most practical solution I've seen is, after securing the border and ensuring that other immigration laws (especially as regards employment) are enforced, that we then also require proof of citizenship to qualify for any Tax-payer funded assistance programs.

Poof.  No new bureaucracy.  No new "program."  Self-deportation for the vast majority of illegals.

184 OT/ just finished plowing 12" of heavy snow off the deck and raking same off of the roof.
Snow removal seems to be a line of work that the illegals don't want to do.

_{Or maybe they don't have the heart for it, I dunno}

185
free wallet cleaning on the Obama Train

186 Americans should be required to wear some snazzy fuckin uniforms made with 100% American. Fucking. Cotton.

If they have gold epaulets I'm in.

187 Newt does NOT propose citizenship but rather a legal status. I don't know about these boards but Newt is taking a bold stance in the primary that is intended to help him in the general. Our immigration system is broken and there is no constituency to fix the legal immigration system. So we end up having to deal with the illegal system. the reality is that there are tens of millions of illegals that I am sorry to say you just aren't going to deport. Especially the ones who have children who are citizens. It just won't happen. Perry gets it and got charred for his heartless statement. I think Newt will not walk it back. He's already running a high risk campaign so this won't hurt him any more than all the rest will. Newt is not my guy but he is good to have on our side.

188 New F&F Post.

189 Snow removal seems to be a line of work that the illegals don't want to do. I don't think they make a strain of cold-resistant Mexican.

190 Newt does NOT propose citizenship but rather a legal status.

Once again, "legal status" is the first step to citizenship.  Read IC's comment above- get here legally (his case, student visa then H1), get resident alien status, then citizenship.

Unless you're going to create some new (probably unconstitutional, in light of the 14th amendment) "legal status," any legalization of someone currently here illegally is, de facto, the first step on a "path to citizenship."

191 It just occurred to me that Newt reminds me of Tom Friedman in a lot of ways, especially with their myriad ideas of the day that will radically transform our lives and shift the paradigm.

192 I call BS on Newt.  When did Romney advocate expulsions of illegals?  This is about building a fence and controlling the border.  It's prospective.  No one is going to be kicked out.

193 (well, not no one, but not very many)

194
The illegal residency crisis is being handled exactly like the debt crisis.

They're both an All-Or-Nothing issue. We won't do a damn thing about either problem until we can figure out how to solve it all at once.

We won't make the relatively small cuts to wasteful spending such as Planned Parenthood or foreign aid because they're just drops in the bucket. Just like we won't begin to deport illegals as soon as they have their First run-in with the law.

How do you cut the $1T+ budget deficit? By starting at that first $1.

How do you send home the illegal invaders mooching off our system and causing problems? You start with the first one you catch.

195 Ultra nationalistic to have the opinion you should only be able to be a citizen of one country? As much as I want to deny it, opinion like yours are making me say fuck it, everyman for themselves.

196 198Newt does NOT propose citizenship but rather a legal status.

Once again, "legal status" is the first step to citizenship. Read IC's comment above- get here legally (his case, student visa then H1), get resident alien status, then citizenship.

Unless you're going to create some new (probably unconstitutional, in light of the 14th amendment) "legal status," any legalization of someone currently here illegally is, de facto, the first step on a "path to citizenship."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 23, 2011 02:21 PM (8y9MW)

 

 

 

right on, Newt is full of shit on this one...

 

197 the expenses involved and the INS paperwork is probably quite daunting for many legal immigrants; illegals who can barely speak English are probably going to find the system impossible to navigate.

Posted by: IC at November 23, 2011 01:50 PM (jZNCU)

 

Sounds like a feature, not a bug.  We have an adequate supply of non-english speakers at present.  I'd rather get the rocket scientists and such from other nations - not the people who yearn to make minimum wage.  The bottom-end labor we already have in great abundance.

198 200I call BS on Newt. When did Romney advocate expulsions of illegals? This is about building a fence and controlling the border. It's prospective. No one is going to be kicked out.

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 23, 2011 02:23 PM (dij/b)

 

why bother even commenting on that pissing match, it's two pro-Amnesty washington-insiders both claiming they aren't what they are.

 

199 This appears to be a real lib/dem type of idea.  It's like card check but for immigration. 

So you are on the community board.  Yeah the community board will be like the school board only maybe worse cause there is more riding on the line, American citizenship.   So, like with card check and the school board, let's say I'm the illegal immigrant and I'm not permitted citizenship and told to go home so then what if someone on the citizen board lets me know that they were in my corner but so and so and so and so weren't.  So then it's possible that what looked like a nice community minded job can end up with an angry confrontation at best.   Also, it like opens the doors to cronyism, only on a small scale.  Like who couldn't use an additional tax free twenty grand in crisp newly printed bills for the holidays and it's only letting this nice person become a citizen.  Nah, this isn't the best idea.

200

why bother even commenting on that pissing match, it's two pro-Amnesty washington-insiders both claiming they aren't what they are.

Is Rob Paul your next stop?

201 I don't think they make a strain of cold-resistant Mexican.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 23, 2011 02:21 PM (l9zgN)

 

Actually, we're lousy with 'em here in Michigan, and it gets fairly cold in the winter.  Thus, I must assume that their climate resistance is fairly robust.

202 Posted by: polynikes- Texan for Romney at November 23, 2011 02:25 PM (LNRLz)

At one time, according to my HS AP American History teacher, you had to renounce your citizenship of your home country and you were then granted American citizenship.  He had a bunch of great reasons why this was a good idea. 

But somewhere along the line, the law changed, wonder why?  Isn't Ram the Emmanuel a citizen of both America and Israel?

203

>> *SPIT!*

Careful folks, don't get any of that on you.  It's pure, concentrated crazy.

>> GET ON THE MITT TRAIN BEFORE THE OBAMA TRAIN ROLLS ON AND OVER YOU (TOO).

Damn, there's some more!

Sorry, no. He has to win the nomination first, and even then all he's getting from me is a vote in the general.

 

204 >>I don't think they make a strain of cold-resistant Mexican.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 23, 2011 02:21 PM (l9zgN)

Prolly should get the ski resort folks to put some of these suckers on our southern border to give potential criminaliens the snow sniffles for prophylactic purposes.

205 As much as I want to deny it, opinion like yours are making me say fuck it, everyman for themselves. I am more than fine with that, I would fucking THRIVE like that.

206 Aren't illegals leaving Arizona in droves cause of the new law?  Didn't welfare folks, in finding out that Rudy actually expected them to work for their welfare check, leave NY in droves. 

Oddly enough, the people I know who are most against giving illegals citizenship and for kicking everyone illegal out are the people I know who came for college and stayed and became American citizens. Don't make the mistake of saying "we can't just throw all illegals out" to them at a party cause then you have an angry buddy for the night.

207

One of the worst aspects to me is that it fosters the whole "social democracy" theme which Obama is working so hard to implement. The government (elites under the fig leaf of "Community Boards") are the decision makers and have the power to decide who goes and who stays. This will quickly encourage a system of bribes, kickbacks, mutual back-scratching, etc. as people seek favored status from the Boards so they (or their workers) may be granted "immunity" status.

Isn't this a big part of what many of us loathe about crony capitalism - and for that matter the whole system - of having the government pull all the crucial levers and make the critical decisions as to who gets what? This sounds scarily close to something Obama might propose. Obamacare waivers, anyone?

This alone is almost enough to prove to me that Newt has been too embedded in the whole government apparatus for too long, and really, where the boots hit the road, doesn't get it. 

208 Fuck mitt romney with Ace's palseyed dick.

209

Fuck Newt, and fuck dual citizenship. 

Try that line of bullshit with your wife, see how well it works out.  'Hey, honey, what's with with this ultra-monogamous shit.' 

 If you want to retain your membership in the Mexican nation, or whatever, then don't take out US citizenship.  No hyphenated Americans.

210 Whenever we catch an illegal alien they should be immediately deported and the next eligible person legally waiting should be granted citizenship. Let us reward the law abiding and not the lawless. Jump the line and you go to the end.

211 "Try that line of bullshit with your wife, see how well it works out. 'Hey, honey, what's with with this ultra-monogamous shit.' " Considering he was boffing her while she was on staff at the House and he was already married, she presumably can look past adultery.

212 "Whenever we catch an illegal alien they should be immediately deported and the next eligible person legally waiting should be granted citizenship. Let us reward the law abiding and not the lawless. Jump the line and you go to the end." A good start would be accelerating the citizenship process for foreigners married to Americans and residing in America. It creates a lot of unnecessary stress when only one spouse can work legally, and when these families can't take advantage of the numerous state, federal and private-sector benefits marriage confers.

213 Well summarized, Ace. I think "daffy" pretty much nails it. The rest of your argument is solid, too.

I knew if Newt spoke for more than a few days, he'd release his inner idiot with gusto.

214 The government and big business has decided it wants a new people. I would expect a putative conservative blog to recognize this and fight against it. Judging by the usual comments though, most of you kosher cons have decided that your down for the plan too.

215

ATTACK!! How dare Newt threaten Perry.

For starters, Newt has an idea, then Perrybots such as Ace have the shame to actually put into writing details of an unwritten plan as if Newt himself approved of Ace's interpretation and writing of his plan.

Community boards, oh yes, means Ace, that must be some community group that is not bound by any law (of course the dumbshit doesn't realize that by the Constitution congress has to give them a law in regards to immigration), to tackle every illegal immigrant situation (after all, according to the uninformed Gingrich wasn't talking about illegals who have been here 25 years without breaking other laws, he in fact, according to Perrybots, was talking about murderous drug dealers that crossed the border yesterday).....

Peons will continue to attack and try to shape opinion to get the immigratation softy of their choice the nomination.....even if it means intentionally, and with hopes of the malice of bringing down his nomination, stretching the words of a candidate until no one can recognize truth or fiction.

216 No hyphenated Americans.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus at November 23, 2011 03:57 PM (epBek)

A-freakin'-men! I think one of the things that got this country onto the fast track to the dust bin of history was process by which it became common for people to think of themselves as Mexican-American or Lebanese-American or whatever-American first and foremost instead of just being Americans, period. It's a silly little thing, but it is a symptom of a very dangerous mindset; thinking of yourself as a member of some "tribe" instead of being a member of a bigger nation (who just happens to have come from somewhere else or who had ancestors who did).

217 On Newt's website his immigration platform stresses that securing the border is paramount along with expressing that these community boards would have legal restrictions under which to work in. I am not sure how feasible that part is even so, but that is only one part of his plan.Another step that Newt mentions is the improved E-verify outsourced to private firms like American Express and Visa for fraud monitoring etc. Overall he seems to have clearly articulated multiple facets of how immigration policy could be improved.

218 Do you think this is 1944? Way past the expire date where we could actually do the legal thing about illegal immigration. I think Perry, and Newt both understand if you come across harsh about illegal immigration you will lose the Hispanic Vote. Conservatism as a electoral force died in California when Pete Wilson (correctly so) backed some proposition to stop welfare payments to illegals. As it was being debated even Hispanics were in favor in some huge majority. But by the time it passes the MFM had made Pete Wilson into General Sam Houston, killing Mexicans. California was lost. Now you have conservatives that do not get the dog-whistle conservative leaders keep trying to blow, but DEMAND they commit electoral suicide all up front, all at once. I think we have to just accept that we secure the border, then deal with the 15 million here after that fact is done. Bringing this out before the election only helps Dems.

219 187 GET ON THE MITT TRAIN BEFORE THE OBAMA TRAIN ROLLS ON AND OVER YOU (TOO).

I'd rather be eaten by wolves.

220 Allen G-- I just read your post #191 and honestly, I don't see a lot of practical difference between what you want and what Gingrich is proposing. The advantage to the Gingrich plan is that illegals granted resident status would also have a permanent "ineligible for citizenship" status that would make it much harder to commit fraud, and make it much less desirable for others to jump the fence. Obviously,I disagree with your reading of the 14th amendment. The bar to citizenship is explicitly a punishment for having come here illegally. For what it's worth, my great-great grandfather, who came here in the 1920's, had his naturalization petition denied (I don't know why) but was allowed to stay.

221 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

222 I don't think Newt meant that as a serious, fixed policy proposal, he was just suggesting that as a possible idea. Overall I don't think what he said was particularly awful and I bet it helps him in the polls.

223 Gingrich is a stupid, verbose big-government twat and a joke.
It was inevitable that his prattling on would lead to this and many other embarassing stupidities.
Can he please now shut up and just go away?

224 If SCOAMF could make any one of the candidates look like an absolute idiot in the presidential debates live as it happens, it would be Perry. Hard to imagine what the press would do with the magic show.Yay! Perry!

Looks like we're gonna destroy Mitt and Newt and get another McCain. No problem, Reagan II is on the horizon!

225 Meh, Mitt is another McCain.

226 Back to Raisin' Cain Not Perfect... but... Surely Best of the Batch Herman Cain 2012

227 "Posted by: doug at November 23, 2011 04:29 PM (gUGI6)"

This.

228 Don't get too excited. I just heard News 8 ABC in DFW just highlight how Perry is flip-flopping on his immigration stance and that he in fact endorses amnesty...ugh, it's disgusting...they never utter anything but lies...

229 Go Perry!!! Go Perry!! Go Perry!

230 Just like how Cain's national sales tax is a shitty idea even if it will never happen. Because it opens the door to the Dems to propose a stand-alone sales tax and we're left with a pile of shit in our hand trying to say our sales tax proposal that our Presidential candidate proposed is good but their sales tax proposal is bad.

What bothers me is that if Democrats do such a thing and then get denounced for it, their response is likely to be, "Hey, it was your guy's idea to begin with!"

231 Conservatism as a electoral force died in California when Pete Wilson (correctly so) backed some proposition to stop welfare payments to illegals.

And look whats' happened to California since.

232 This is an excellent post. It is very informative. Thank you so much. I'll be a regular viewer.

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235
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237 Just announce welfare and Social Security have to be cut by 40 percent because illegals are sucking up the benefits.  It'll work itself out.

/sarcasm

We tried this once - rewarding illegal immigration, and got more illegal immigration.  I've seen enough of the bad parts of Mexico to assure you that, were I a poor Mexican, I'd be here too.  It's a big problem because we are not a cold hearted people, but we are being overwhelmed financially.

One way or another, it will stop.  Given the courage of our political leadership, that will be when our per capita income sinks low enough that no one will want to come here.

238 Typical Republican elite response.

Big business wants cheap labor. Period.

They could care less about any trouble caused by a bunch of un-assimilated third worlders.

239

A far more insightful view than Ace's is that of Prof. Jacobson at Legal Insurrection.

No, local boards is not a daft idea even if not a slam dunk.  Effin government agency would be better?

Self-evidently it is no alternate path to citizenship, just an accomodation to pro-illegals without protection for business.

And, possibly, a premeditated bonus:  Romney boots the issue badly.

3:2 odds that its over, Newt gets the nomination with all the smooches of death already bussed on Mitt.

240 It is, as they say, something so dumb only an intellectual could believe it. "They" don't say it; George Orwell did: "One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that; no ordinary man could be such a fool." in Notes on Nationalism (1945)

241 It is, as they say, something so dumb only an intellectual could believe it.

"They" don't say it; George Orwell did:

"One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that; no ordinary man could be such a fool."

in Notes on Nationalism (1945)