1 2012 is the base's year. Hope Rudy understands that.

2 My advice to him is to not hide in Florida waiting for it all to be over like he did last time.

3 Rudy Guiliani would be best not as President, but as President John Bolton's Attorney General.

4 What the candidates need to understand is that the stakes are too damn high for them to tip-toe through the tulips. We want leadership, not pandering, and absolutely no deference to Obama. We want the anti-Obama, 100%.

5 I wish he was smart enough to stay the f*ck out of the race.

He's be wonderful running Homeland security, FEMA, etc. in the GOP Administration.

6 I think Rudy can make peace with the social cons if he pledges not to push pro-gay, pro-abortion legislation, on the grounds that he is focused on more pressing issues.  And of course re-new his pledge to appoint judges who don't legislate from the bench.

7 Demint/Guilliani

8 If it works that way in 2012, it's possible that Rudy could win that moderate primary. But I don't see how he wins the nomination, because the party is about 75% rightist and 75% pro-life.

Plus Rudy's positions on gun control and immigration are rather troubling.

It's a shame, because of the possible candidates he's probably the best adminstrator.

9 Next time don't put all your eggs in the handbasket known as Florida, Rudy. 

10 "On the other hand, he does have a reputation for taking on the left, and the unions, and so on, and maybe he can get traction if he emphasizes that." When Rudy was sworn in as mayor NYC had THREE completely separate, independent police forces with the associated duplication of effort and waste of money. He said he was going to unite them to improve services and save money and EVERYBODY said he was nuts: The unions won't allow it! they all said. By the end of his first term New York had one police force, the NYPD. He knows how to get tough jobs done- but he also needs more political savvy than he demonstrated in 2008.

11 It didn't help that his campaign strategy was ridiculous. It made him look inept.

12

Also, let's not forget the Bernard Carrick (spelling) fiasco.

I like Rudy, but he has literally no chance of winning. His brand of republican doesn't sell south of the mason dixon or west of the mississippi.

13 "A source said..." and "a source told..." and "an insider said...."

Pretty thin gruel there.

After four years of relative obscurity -- these days, Giuliani gets mentioned mainly by ":pundits" like "Poppin' Fresh" looking to stir the pot -- I'd need a complete and current recitation, from Rudy, of what Rudy thinks and believes.

A declaration -- again, from him -- would help, too.

This is one big meh.

14

This nomination is Romney's to lose.

I honestly believe, and would be willing to bet a small amount of money that Mitternich Romney will be out candidate in 2012

15

No more RINO's, moderates/centrists, McCain's etc. That's how we wound up so far down the road to commie ville. Moderates are just keeping the seats warm for the really bad people.

16 Why are they doing it this way? Rudy & others: if you want to be the nominee, start by being an outspoken critic (with a plan) of Obama. Nevermind all this insider-baseball shit.

17 3 Oooo. I like that. I got a tingle up my leg. And, since I consider myself THE base, that would be IT.

18 I want Mike Huckabee to be the front runner. The front runner never wins.

19 on the subject of New Yorkers, apparently the Huffington Post is furious at Governor Cuomo for cutting taxes for the wealthiest new yorkers because "they can't afford to keep shouldering all the burden anymore". How the fuck is it that CUOMO can see the light but the idiots in Illinois are willing to hike income taxes by 75%?

20

This nomination is Romney's to lose.

I honestly believe, and would be willing to bet a small amount of money that Mitternich Romney will be out candidate in 2012

Posted by: Ben at January 07, 2011 02:48 PM (wuv1c)

Sigh....as much as I don't like him, I'd take him in a heartbeat over what occupies the WH now.

21 Not Romney. Please. I know he's next in line but not Romney.

22 I still don't think a Pro-Choice Republican can win the nomination, or the election.  Having the base sit out took McCain down, having the pro-lifers unhappy would be more of the same in 2012, I think.

23 wow, Ben's right, again. I don't like to say it because I know most of you don't like Mitt. But you're gonna have to accept the fact he's gonna be the GOP's nominee.

24 Sorry guys, this is OT, but it is very disturbing:

Candy will no longer be found in safe-sex kits distributed in the Monadnock Region, the director of AIDS Services for the Monadnock Region said Thursday.

And Director Susan MacNeil said the organization will be certain that school administrators are on board before bringing safe-sex kits to high schools. MacNeil said her organization will also ask school officials if parents should be given the opportunity to opt out of AIDS Services presentations.

The kits included condoms, fruit-flavored lubricant and candy.

25 Plus Rudy's positions on gun control and immigration are rather troubling.

It's a shame, because of the possible candidates he's probably the best adminstrator.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 07, 2011 02:44 PM

I can see Rudy changing his immigration stance, based on National Security concerns.  Gun control will be tougher but doable (and he'll need a veep the NRA loves).  But if he tries to actually flip on abortion or gay issues it'll be too obvious and craven a flip-flop.

26 He's not high on my list right now, mostly because of how he ran before and his lack of anything meaningful lately, but I don't think the abortion stuff would necessarily kill him with all pro-lifers. 

I'm a no-exceptions pro-lifer who has stood out in DC freezing her ass off in January for the March for Life.  But I would vote for Rudy as long as his position was to not push for increasing abortion on the demand, state-funded abortions, partial birth abortions, and the like.  If he has a "personally for it, but I won't push it" stance - and if I could be convinced that the judges he chose wouldn't be picked based on this issue, but rather on good conservative principles - I would vote for him. 

But I think we can do better. 

27 15

This nomination is Romney's to lose.

I honestly believe, and would be willing to bet a small amount of money that Mitternich Romney will be out candidate in 2012

Posted by: Ben at January 07, 2011 02:48 PM (wuv1c)

My friend, never count Luke Skywalker out!

28 #15 I honestly believe, and would be willing to bet a small amount of money that Mitternich Romney will be out candidate in 2012

Gah!  The only solace I can gleam from that choice is that at least Romney isn't Fuckabee, for if Fuckabee is the Republican nominee...thinking about choice any further at the moment will only induce madness.

We may all wish that May 21st, 2011 was the end of the world if we're stuck between either Mitternich or Fuckabee as our nominee.  

29 And if it's any consolation, Mitt is my first choice. If he's conservative enough for me, he's conservative enough for anybody...except Vic, of course.

30 Mark my words....

Rudy Giuliani is a stalking horse for Sarah Palin. He will draw votes from the moderates, and after drawing enough, he will be rewarded with a cabinet position of some sort. Something....in the legal department.

31

I like Rudy, but he has literally no chance of winning. His brand of republican doesn't sell south of the mason dixon or west of the mississippi.

Heh. You're right. My mother is 89 and from the deep south which she left in 1945 to live all over the world. She has a picture taken with Guiliani during the Bob McDonnell campaign. She refers to him as "that New York guy". He can't overcome that.

32 29
And if it's any consolation, Mitt is my first choice.

If he's conservative enough for me, he's conservative enough for anybody...except Vic, of course.

Posted by: Soothsayer at January 07, 2011 02:51 PM (uFokq)

And he gives me Cat Scratch Fever!

33 I hate Romney.  He isn't a leader.  He's a stuffed teddy bear that you can program to say anything you want.

34

>> The kits included condoms, fruit-flavored lubricant and candy.

This relentless assault on Happy Meals must stop.

35 Take away his gun control stance and I can live with him.

36

If you think Romney, Huckabee, and, hell, even Palin are Far Right then you've been eating too many greasy tubs of chicken-fried CRAAAZY.

 

Fat, Stupid, and Pro-Choice is no way to win the GOP nod for Prez.  Not that I'm calling the G-man fat.

37

This nomination is Romney's to lose.

I honestly believe, and would be willing to bet a small amount of money that Mitternich Romney will be out candidate in 2012

Posted by: Ben at January 07, 2011 02:48 PM (wuv1c)

Sigh....as much as I don't like him, I'd take him in a heartbeat over what occupies the WH now.

See, i would not be overly disappointed. I kinda like Romney, his concession speech at CPAC in 2008 was great.

I am not a huge fan or anything and I don't anticipate working for him in the primaires, but if he wins, I won't be mad.

He's fiscally convservative. He would know for certain that if he didn't overturn Obamacare he would be a one term president. And I would assume he is strong on defense.

Given the current field of Republicans, he has the best chance of winning.

Obviously no want desperately wants Romney to win, but primairies and elections in general tend to be the lesser of two(or more) weavels.

38 26 Ditto on all counts but I don't think he'll sell in the south.

39 Rudy becomes relevant if something goes boom. To date the muzzies have been to stupid to build good campfire and DHS has gotten lucky; those are exactly strong table legs for the future. Just the TSA groping issue can carry him to 3rd place and maybe the VP slot.

40 Not only did DiT write the winning comment but he did it off-topic. Bravo.

41 I think his time has passed.
R's don't want another RINO.  I just dont see a NE Republican winning over the midwest.

But.. I am crawling over broken glass to vote for whoever is the nominee.

42 And I'll tell you right now, Sarah Palin is not running and she will be endorsing and campaigning for Mitt Romney. In fact, I suspect Romney is busy capturing the support of most prominent Republicans and will face little competition for the nomination.

43 Huck and Romney's losses ARE disqualifying, as is Rudy's. There's no POINT to voting for the guys who couldn't beat the guy who couldn't beat Barack Obama.

44 42 And I'll tell you right now, Sarah Palin is not running and she will be endorsing and campaigning for Mitt Romney. I'd like to see some evidence for this because she sure looks to me like she's running.

45

I did vote for Romney last time, but by then it was between him, McCain, and Huckabee. So...

I kinda liked Guilianni, but he hasn't done much in 2 years, has he? Say what you will about Palin (or better yet, don't) but she's been finding forums to make a conservative case. I'm not saying she's the only one, just that someone not in office has to do something to stay relevant. Especially in modern ADD culture.

46 And I'll tell you right now, Sarah Palin is not running and she will be endorsing and campaigning for Mitt Romney. In fact, I suspect Romney is busy capturing the support of most prominent Republicans and will face little competition for the nomination. Posted by: Soothsayer at January 07, 2011 02:55 PM (uFokq) can I 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th this? She is positioning herself as a kingmaker- hence all her efforts during the 2010 cycle. StagnantAir members will be hardest hit by that reality.

47 Say what you want about Rudy...but Chris Farley playing his fat bastard son was awesome.   Too bad NBC has washed it off teh tubes!

48 I am of the "its a states issue" on abortion.  I am of the "I dont give a shit" on most gay issues.  In general I like Rudy.  My issue with him is gun control.  And I don't own a gun.  Because I have decided that I don't currently need one.

49 richard mcenroe exactly

50

Given the current field of Republicans, he has the best chance of winning.

Obviously no want desperately wants Romney to win, but primairies and elections in general tend to be the lesser of two(or more) weavels.

Posted by: Ben at January 07, 2011 02:54 PM (wuv1c)

Well I was able to vote for McCain with getting vomit all over my ballot, so I'm sure I could do it for Romney too. 

51 There's no story there, you would think there was at least one named source, how often do you have to learn the same lesson. Now there is a lesson on Guiliani was taken down, by the likes of a slug like Wayne Barrett,  who regarded him as the White Whale, the comments about his using city funds came from him,

52 Some network newsbabe in NY this morning called Huckabee and Palin far-right. Maybe that's the source.
I would support Rudy in a heartbeat but I agree with those who say he won't play in the South. My conservative cuz in FL said he ain't voting for that city slicker.
I suppose I could vote for Romney. Huckabee, I seriously have my doubts.

53 Rudy or Romney as President would be smiling and talking about The Call of History as they signed away the last of my 2nd Amendment rights.  Fuck them both.

54 The kits included condoms, fruit-flavored lubricant and candy.

This relentless assault on Happy Meals must stop.

..

AWESOME!

55 T'Pawl will probably end up the consensus winner after Romney crashes.

We're boned.

56 I have no evidence, just conjecture. But it's the smart move -- it's what I'd do. Sarah Palin has a following and her endorsement carries a lot of weight. She's making herself into a power-player behind the scenes.

57

Romney is a shit sandwich with the shit almost 100% scraped-off.

 

Also, he campaigns for suck.  Seriously, how can such a competent guy be such a bad campaigner?

58 Remember, we gotta get one more state -- Rudy + Christie = NJ?; Rudy forces Obama to spend effort on NY and CT as well; Rudy is popular in PA.

59

Well I was able to vote for McCain with getting vomit all over my ballot, so I'm sure I could do it for Romney too. 

I'd vote for your vomit over Obama. As long as you didn't just eat twizzlers, it would be less red.

60 43 ...There's no POINT to voting for the guys who couldn't beat the guy who couldn't beat the MSM wanted to run against Barack Obama. Posted by: richard mcenroe at January 07, 2011 02:56 PM (9Htsj) In 2008 the GOP was dumb enough to allow the MSM to pick their nominee. They need to be smarter in 2012.

61 I am a Palin fan but I am starting to think she isnt running.  I doubt if Michelle Bachman would be considering running if Palin was.

62 gah!

63

The kits included condoms, fruit-flavored lubricant and candy.

Candy? For..........?

64 Candy? For..........?

Hey, little girl

65

can I 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th this?
She is positioning herself as a kingmaker- hence all her efforts during the 2010 cycle.

StagnantAir members will be hardest hit by that reality.

I agree. She has to know she has no path to the presidency in 2012.

The only way she wins is if there is a 2008 scenario where they is a massive economic collapse, fear and uncertainty, and a truely hated president by 70% of the county.

And while Obama is hated, he still has a 40-45% approval rating, the economy is getting better at a snails pace in spite of his polcies, and there isn't really a ton of fear uncertainty like there was in 2008, when Financial Institutions that were over 100 years old disappeared overnight.

She just can't win in 2012. I'm sure she knows that and will pry the best deal she can from whatever Republican Primary candidate in return for her coveted endorsement. Let's be real her endorsement in  the Republican primaries will be pure gold, in the generals not so much.

 

66 Part 1:

I will not vote for Huckabee. Period. The guy is a fat jackass who wants a fat tax and let a criminal out who killed again.

I will not vote for Daniels. Truce on issues, and the VAT has killed him.

I will not vote for Romney, for a myriad of reasons including his role in the dilution of the radio industry.

--------------------------
Part II:
Who would I vote for? Of those who are pretty much in it.

1. Sarah Palin
2. Donald Trump
3. Rudy Giuliani
4. Herman Cain
5. Tim Pawlenty

67 63 The kits included condoms, fruit-flavored lubricant and candy.
Candy? For..........?

Candy is dandy (Liquor is quicker)

68 This is just journalice angling to pick our candidate again.

69 Next time don't put all your eggs in the handbasket known as Florida, Rudy. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at January 07, 2011 02:46 PM (9hSKh)

He had Gov. Crist's iron-clad promise of an endorsement, which would carry him to a win on Super Tuesday.  That was back when people didn't know what Crist's word was worth.

70 Sarah Palin has a following and her endorsement carries a lot of weight. She's making herself into a power-player behind the scenes.

Yet the GOP and their like thinkers treat her like dirt.  What a twisted party.

71 If that pro-choice stuff was the worst of Rudy's faults I might could actually vote for him.  I'm not sure abortion is even in the top ten of the list of reasons he is unelectable in the South and West.

72 24 The kits included condoms, fruit-flavored lubricant and candy.

Posted by: momma at January 07, 2011 02:50 PM (penCf)

Freakin' Monadnock region. Giving the rest of us a bad name.  The fact that Manchester, the state's biggest city with three high schools, focuses on abstinence education and DOESN'T hand out condoms should be a clue that we don't want that crap going on in our schools.  I'm all for AIDS awareness, but please leave the condoms and fruity lube out of the conversation, okay?  Sheesh.

 

73

Remember, we gotta get one more state -- Rudy + Christie = NJ?; Rudy forces Obama to spend effort on NY and CT as well; Rudy is popular in PA.

Yeah, but the PA Primary is one of the last primaries. When i went to vote in 2008, the only candidates left on the ballot were McCain and Ron Paul. It's a forgone conclusion when you get to PA.

Also, on Romney, had either he or huckabee dropped out earlier, one of them would have beat McCain.

Had it been

Huckabee v McCain

or

Romney v. McCain

McCain would have lost.  Romney and the huckster were stealing each others votes.

74 "... far-right candidates like Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, and there's opportunity for a moderate candidate..."

Statist Romney and populist Huckabee are being branded as "far-right"?  That's deep in whiskey-tango-foxtrot territory.  If they're far-right, I'm the king of gorram India.

Here's my idea: how about we get McCain in this one too, so they can all divide up the RINO vote amongst themselves, and clear the way for one solid anti-Obama conservative?  It would be like a political Thunderdome, rather than letting the media pick our candidate for us they they want to run against.

75 Republicans need a candidate who is competitive in the Midwest. Any idiot who really thinks a Rudy or Romney "will lose the south"- that southern states like Georgia, South Carolina, etc which refused to vote Obama in 2008 at his peak but will do so SIMPLY OUT OF SPITE, is a moron. They voted for MCCAIN, perhaps the Rinoest of Rinoes we've had. Florida, North Carolina and Indiana get lumped in too just based on the political demographics since 2008 which shows 2008 was a fluke for all 3. So focus on the swath from Iowa/Minnesota over to Pennsylvania. If Romney or Rudy won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania do you really expect them to lose the electoral vote?

76 The dilution of the radio industry?  Quite.

77

Crazy talk.

I saw Giuliani at a Santorum rally in 2006. He's about 4' 11" tall and looked about 75 years old back then.

Rudy is a gun grabbing pro-abortionist, something the GOP base will never support.

Sarah lacks "gravitas."

Romney is a commie -- something the MFM finds appealing.

Huckabee is a big govt. nanny stater -- something the MFM finds appealing.

So face it:

The MFM will select either Romney or Huckabee as the 2012 GOP candidate.

We can only outsmart them by running McCain again in 2012.

78 how about not having these same old tried and tired rinos? how about that?

79 This election I am voting on primarily economic issues, social issues come third behind Economy and National Defense,

80 Help us, Ordered Anarchy.  You're our only hope.

81 Is there anyway to change the way the nominations work for the GOP, or is it too late?

Most GOP electorate never to get vote on the nominee.

It sucks and isn't fair.  That is how the DNC beat us in 2008.  I think that is where the DNC focuses their election antics.

82 And I'll tell you right now, Sarah Palin is not running and she will be endorsing and campaigning for Mitt Romney.

I'd like to see some evidence for this because she sure looks to me like she's running.

Posted by: joncelli at January 07, 2011 02:56 PM (RD7QR)

And I don't see any evidence that she's putting any weight behind Romney.  In fact, I'd cite this as evidence that she's not a Romney fan (given that Romney's hat is and has always been in the ring for 2012):

“A reason to run is if nobody else were to step up with the solutions that are needed to get the economy back on the right track and to be so committed to our national security that they are going to do all that they can, including fighting those on the extreme left who seem to want to dismantle some of our national security tools that we have in place,” Palin said.

“If nobody else wanted to step up, Greta, I would offer myself up in the name of service to the public,” Palin added. “But I also know that anybody — anybody — can make a huge difference in this country without a title, without an office, just being out there as an advocate for solutions that can work to get the country on the right track. And that's where I am now.”

83

Anyone is better than my choice last time around:

Clinton, Hillary

Operation "Chaos" my ass.

'Mark my words' that idiot Limbaugh says. Of course I'm a bigger idiot for taking his advice.

84 I think your are, still, being too generous to Rudi there Ace. He's pretty much bad on all social issues. He's also been married 3 friggin' times. Rudi was only ever the perceived front runner in 2008. Mostly due to name recognition and a boatload of cash. I never knew anybody excited about his run and I'm in Connecticut.

85

I'm not sure abortion is even in the top ten of the list of reasons he is unelectable in the South and West.

Be sure, former. 

In my neck of the woods, the Tea Parties are like 80% Christian conservatives.  They are genuinely focused on fiscal stuff right now, but abortion isn't something they'll overlook.

86 That is one thing I don't understand either. Why is it presumed McCain is not running in 2012? Has he definitely ruled it out?

87 Ronald Reagan couldn't beat the man who couldn't beat Jimmy Carter.

88

When it comes down to it, I would probably vote for anyone over Obama.

It pains me to say it, but right before i bite down on the cynide capsule, I would pull the leaver for huckabee, a man i truly hate.

Obama has done so much damage in two freaking years, he can't have 6 to work with.

I'd pull the lever for Ron Paul if i had to. What's the churchill quote? If Hitler invaded Hell, I would have nice things to say about Satan in the House of Commons.

 

89 McCain would be 76 in 2012.  I dunno - that seems too friggin' old to start the job of POTUS.

90

 

also that decision to dress in full drag at a halloween party was pretty short sighted for Rudi, espcially if he wants to win a primary race in anywhere but the upper east side of manhatten and hollywood

91 Ben - I think Rudy is playing for the second chair. Put him on the ticket, tell "fear" of a unprepared Palin being a heartbeat away goes away and a guy like Pence can push hard on the economy. Never let him out of the NE for the campaign.

92 @88
I'd pull it for Huckabee, but not for Paul. 

93 and clear the way for one solid anti-Obama conservative?

Which is who, exactly? 

The sad truth is all the candidates in the running so far have deficiencies.  The ideal candidate would be:

-2+ term governor, still popular in his state (swing state is even better)
-acceptable to social conservatives and fiscal conservatives
-eloquent speaker, not afraid to attack democrats.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anybody who fits that criteria.

94 if the choice id huckabee or paul...i think we are pretty much f'd

95 and you let Rudy go ugly, early. Obama hasn't had someboy go negative on his golden ass - 24/7 in NYC media market.

96 "Americans aren't taking terrorism seriously anymore" No, that's not the issue. We've had 10 years of liberty-rape in the name of "homeland security". I'm not going to vote for the guy who promises faster and harder.

97 I hope to goodness people are not picking candidates based on whether they've been divorced.  Holy crap, that seems really short-sighted. 

98 87 Ronald Reagan couldn't beat the man who couldn't beat Jimmy Carter.

Posted by: Mr. Sar Kastik at January 07, 2011 03:14 PM (70v0o)

Jimmy Carter couldn't beat the man that was beat by Gerald Ford.

99

 focus on the swath from Iowa/Minnesota over to Pennsylvania. If Romney or Rudy won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania do you really expect them to lose the electoral vote?

Again, I think Romney has the best chance. I honestly believe Romney would win in places like Michigan and Colorado. Also states like virginia, north carolina, indiana, Ohio and Florida would come back into the republican fold.

If that happened, we'd be looking at 290-300 electoral votes for Romney.

100 How about a taco that craps ice cream.

I'd like to see somebody pull perceptions so far right that the moderate is the guy who doesn't eat the Democrats soul after he pulls it out at the debate.

101 -2+ term governor, still popular in his state (swing state is even better)
-acceptable to social conservatives and fiscal conservatives
-eloquent speaker, not afraid to attack democrats.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of anybody who fits that criteria.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 07, 2011 03:17 PM (TpXEI)

Missed it by THAT much!

102

I hope to goodness people are not picking candidates based on whether they've been divorced.  Holy crap, that seems really short-sighted. 

no, of course not, but three divorces?

Or in Newt Gingrich's case, divorcing a cancer stricken wife?

I'm not judging them but you have to take into account how that will play in an election

103 That is one thing I don't understand either. Why is it presumed McCain is not running in 2012? Has he definitely ruled it out?

Posted by: Rocks at January 07, 2011 03:13 PM (Q1lie)

I think I read about or heard him say he'd never run again a few months ago.

104 Damn sock

105 These days, Rudy is just a poor man's Chris Christie.

Look, he doesn't have a constituency.  Who's going to run phone banks for him?  Who will work night and day for him knocking on doors in Western Iowa?

The thing about socons is that they're on the defensive.  It isn't about abortion or marriage or DADT when they think about a president, it's about what other damned thing is going to come down the pike that the "enlightened" will decide absolutely must be done.

Rudy could help alleviate things: Promise strict constructionist judges, an honest assessment of DADT, no same-sex marriage at the federal level, a return to the Mexico City policy. Ultimately, though, it won't make socons stop feeling nervous.

If he's running for anything, it's VP, he's a classic ticket-balancer.

106 and then there's Jim Demint who I think is gonna quietly dip his toe into the race to see what happens

107 People like to vote for men who have long happy marriages. 

108 " think I read about or heard him say he'd never run again a few months ago."

Yeah, but you know how McCain flip-flops - even on his own nickname.

109 It takes a special kind of stupid to get married three times. Now if your spouses had died okay. But after 2 divorces?

110

Ben - I think Rudy is playing for the second chair. Put him on the ticket, tell "fear" of a unprepared Palin being a heartbeat away goes away and a guy like Pence can push hard on the economy. Never let him out of the NE for the campaign.

maybe. That might have worked in 2008, but let's be honest, as Ace points out, terrorism is on the back burner these days.

Most americans want us to get out of afghanistan.

I just don't think what makes Rudy special or famous is in high demand right now.

in 2012, the Republican VP pick will be based on one of two lines of reasoning.

1) to sure up a segment of the base or independents that the Presidential candidate is weak with. Like McCain picking Palin, or ever Reagan picking Bush 1 to get the blue bloods and establishment)

2) to win a specific state. So that would be someone from Florida, Ohio, PA, Michigan, Colorado, Iowa. 

111 I'd like to see somebody pull perceptions so far right that the moderate is the guy who doesn't eat the Democrats soul after he pulls it out at the debate.

Cut, jib

112 Anybody who calls Huckabee far-right views Obama as middle-of-the-road.

113 Sarah Palin has a following and her endorsement carries a lot of weight. She's making herself into a power-player behind the scenes.

Yet the GOP and their like thinkers treat her like dirt.  What a twisted party.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 07, 2011 03:04 PM (Ty06w)

Human nature.  They have a cozy ecosystem where they get paid well to consult and sermonize and lead and direct, and she rumbles through that ecosystem like a bulldozer.

It's no different from when the movie moguls predicted that TV would destroy entertainment, or when small retailers and unions rail against Wal-Mart, or when small booksellers decried Barnes & Noble and then B&N bitched about Amazon.com.  Disruptive models always draw hostility and denunciations from the keepers of the Old Ways.

114 It's not so much that he's a RINO as he is a LAZY CAMPAIGNER who has no FIRE IN HIS BELLY! He only won 1 real campaign against Dinkins, and that was because of the Crown Heights riots. He should have run for Governor of New York in 2006 or 2010, or U.S. Senate in 2010, but he WIMPED OUT!!!!

115 15 This nomination is Romney's to lose.I honestly believe, and would be willing to bet a small amount of money that Mitternich Romney will be out candidate in 2012.   Romney as nominee assures a third party run--UNLESS by some miracle we are able to get O'care repealed and the political dust from the national hc debacle has settled well in advance of Willard's run.  A very unlikely scenario.  More likely--the politics surrounding Ocare will be even more poisonous than they are now, and Willard will be persona non grata for many cons and tp'ers.   My view is the Maobama wins a second term unless the Establishment guys figure out that they are going to have to let a Tea Partier carry the banner in 2012.  If the Rove crowd behaves in 12 like they did in '10, its war between the Teas and the RINOs.

116 42
And I'll tell you right now, Sarah Palin is not running and she will be endorsing and campaigning for Mitt Romney.

Whoa!  I'll bet you've got the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl, too!! not to burst your Romneycare balloon, but.... AH, hahahahahaha

117

Again, I think Romney has the best chance. I honestly believe Romney would win in places like Michigan and Colorado. Also states like virginia, north carolina, indiana, Ohio and Florida would come back into the republican fold.

If that happened, we'd be looking at 290-300 electoral votes for Romney.

Posted by: Ben at January 07, 2011 03:19 PM (wuv1c)

If Romney didn't learn from his last primary run, he will get bounced by some unknown just like last time. 

What has Mitt been doing the last four years? Who knows. What does he care about?  Clean cut only gets you so far.

118 Is this a joke?

The only people who even remember who Giuliani is are people who hate him. Everyone else: "Oh, that guy. He used to be on TV. Fuck, he's fuckin' old as fuck now. He totally looks dead. Does he have AIDS or something? Obama suddenly seems so vigorous and dressed-like-a-man. I'm with him."

119 Does "far right" just mean pro-life, now? In what other way could Huckabee be called "far right?"

120

65 She just can't win in 2012. I'm sure she knows that and will pry the best deal she can from whatever Republican Primary candidate in return for her coveted endorsement. Let's be real her endorsement in  the Republican primaries will be pure gold,

Wow, the Romneycare group is feelin' it!  Hmm, if her endorsement in 12 is  "gold," why won't she use that for her own benefit instead of throwing it away on an establishment stiff? How many establishment stiffs did she endorse in 10?   Its not like Palin and Romney bonded during the battle against O'care, or during the primaries, when your guy was largely invisible.

Save the link to this thread, my prediction is Palin makes an announcement before mid-Februaray that is going to sorely disappoint the Romneycare camp.  And then she's gonna kick his plastic ass in 12.

121

Wow, the Romneycare group is feelin' it!  Hmm, if her endorsement in 12 is  "gold," why won't she use that for her own benefit instead of throwing it away on an establishment stiff? How many establishment stiffs did she endorse in 10?   Its not like Palin and Romney bonded during the battle against O'care, or during the primaries, when your guy was largely invisible.

 

again.

In the Republican Primary here endorsement has value.

She won't win in 2012. I will bet 100 bucks on it.

I like her, i don't have any love for romney, but I think he can win, she can't

122 How could anyone, anywhere consider Romney "far right"?  He wouldn't be far right in France, and is probably quite a bit to the left of the Republican center of political gravity.

123

110--I just don't think what makes Rudy special or famous is in high demand right now.

but what makes Mitt Romneycare famous sure is in high demand, right? gah!

124 I like her, i don't have any love for romney, but I think he can win, she can't

She can win.  My sister's husband's retarded uncle could beat Obama in 2012 unless the economy starts booming.  This is not the time to pick weak, tepid candidates.

125 Ruuuuudy...Ruuuuudy...Ruuuuudy

126 great post ace--he should've come out against Roe. He would have had a genuine shot at that point. I wondered if he could flip flop now, but probably not.

127 The fact is that the Republican bench is pretty weak, especially since Chris Christi is out of the running.
Sarah Palin is now the strongest player.
Giuliani can run against her and if he wins the nomination he'd pick her as his running mate.

128 Does "far right" just mean pro-life, now? In what other way could Huckabee be called "far right?"

If "far right" means pro-life, how could Romney be called that?

*rimshot*

129 Huckabee  for President - no F'n way

Romney  - not a chance, another looser

Christ, are we going to have another lame ass selection of pathetic candidates for the GOP after 4 years of this bullshit with Obama. Can it really be worse than last go round ?

There is not one outstanding Presidential candidate - not one that bubbles up through the surface of the shit pool. It's become a frikin popularity contest of who says the right crap and wears the right hair doo. And most importantly, one whom the media will attach it's lips to for the duration all the while picking the flesh off their bones on a daily basis.

With all due respect to Palin, who says the right stuff, is she really Presidential  ? - yea I guess when stacked up against Obama and Biden. Yes very much so but I don't see 50% of the population buyin in just yet.

130

I agree that Palin probably isn't running, unless as a stunt to keep her profile high.  She has approximately zero chance of winning the general and a weak chance of winning the primary- people are getting tired of her antics.

Don't assume that it's a race between Romney and Huckster though- there will be plenty of other contenders who don't currently have a lot of name recognition yet.

How many people outside the political junkie class knew who Romney or Huckabee even were before potential candidates were being discussed mid-2005?  I'd bet relatively few.

 

131  Republicans need a center right candidate who can sweep Jesusland, the strongs and lifters in the Midwest and then stage an upset or three in New England.

Ca, Wa. and Or. are lost to the softhand faceworkers, illegal immigration lobby and ballot box stuffing public sector unionists.

132 All I can say is, he'd better not skip Iowa this time. That's the more moderate kind of place that he needs to win if he has any hope. If he needs to skip someplace, skip Mississippi or Arkansas, where they don't cotton to Yankee's anyhow.

133 I think Rudy can make peace with the social cons if he pledges not to push pro-gay, pro-abortion legislation, on the grounds that he is focused on more pressing issues. 

There should be no pushing on either side of the issue.

134 He might not make a bad running mate for someone, but the top prize? Yeah, right. The same idiot Republican primary voters who voted for Huckabee early on are still there. Giuliani is going to do real well with those troglodytes again. If we can't nominate a legit small govt guy or gal this time, then there is no Republican party....just two D opposition parties, one fiscally conservative and one socially conservative.

135 In addition to the abortion 800 lb. gorilla in Rudy's room, I fail to see how labeling Huckabee and Romney as "far right" (assuming that he even said that, as Ace points out), and positioning yourself to the left of them will get a lot of traction. Hard to believe.

136 5. Tim Pawlenty
Posted by: Pipe Barackage at January 07, 2011 03:03 PM

The global warmening thing has him off OFF OFF my list.

137 Save the link to this thread, my prediction is Palin makes an announcement before mid-Februaray that is going to sorely disappoint the Romneycare camp. And then she's gonna kick his plastic ass in 12.
Posted by: les grossman at January 07, 2011 03:41 PM (K/USr)

Late spring/ early summer. She'll be too focused on the Iron Dog race in February. And the only possible way she'd ever endorse Romney is if Romney and Motherfuckabee were the last two standing. Palin and Motherfuckabee don't like each other one bit. The only thing they have in common is religion. Motherfuckabee is the ultimate big-government nanny-stater, while Palin is as close to a libertarian you can get and still run as a Republican. Why would she even be entertaining the thought of running if Romney or Motherfuckabee were acceptable to her?

138

The global warmening thing has him off OFF OFF my list.

He's backed down on that over the last couple years.  Recently he referred to Cap and Tax as a "disaster".

139 The same idiot Republican primary voters who voted for Huckabee early on are still there. Giuliani is going to do real well with those troglodytes again.

Huckabee did well in Iowa because he advocated Fair Tax, which isn't exactly a social conservative position.  Otherwise he was an unknown, and unknowns have the advantage of being everything to everybody.  People seem to overlook this.

Much like the reason McCain did so well was that people had decided both Romney and Huckabee sucked, and McCain had largely been right about the surge and had the most credibility on the Iraq war.  He also got a boost from New Hampshire, where he was always popular.

140

Why would she even be entertaining the thought of running if Romney or Motherfuckabee were acceptable to her?

She endorsed McCain for Senate; if he's acceptable to her, I don't see how all the other contenders wouldn't be.

141

She endorsed McCain for Senate; if he's acceptable to her, I don't see how all the other contenders wouldn't be.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 07, 2011 04:39 PM (plsiE)

Considering she is only a national name because McCain picked her as his running mate...

142 She endorsed McCain for Senate; if he's acceptable to her, I don't see how all the other contenders wouldn't be.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 07, 2011 04:39 PM (plsiE) She was his running mate. It's a given that she'd endorse him.

143 #30  Mark my words....

Rudy Giuliani is a stalking horse for Sarah Palin. He will draw votes from the moderates, and after drawing enough, he will be rewarded with a cabinet position of some sort. Something....in the legal department.

I was going to mention that Giuliani and Sarah have met, visited, whatever.   That's what she was doing in New York when Letterman made the "joke" about her daughter being raped by the baseball player.

That the two of them might be on "friendly terms" seems likely.

I'm not convinced that Palin wants to be President *yet*, but I'd be happy with either of them.   It may be a sort of strange combination on the face of it but Giuliani was my favorite choice last time and my own personal choice preference would have the two of them at the top.  

144 I'm fervently, dearly hoping that I get a chance to vote for Palin. But I won't vote for someone else just because she says to. I don't understand endorsements. Do people really vote for someone because someone else says they should? As for Rudy, he was my preferred choice going into '08. But his campaign (or lack thereof) . . . my God, what a disaster. He'd make a hell of a National Security Advisor, though.

145 With all due respect to Palin, who says the right stuff, is she really Presidential  ? - yea I guess when stacked up against Obama and Biden. Yes very much so but I don't see 50% of the population buyin in just yet.

Posted by: melvin at January 07, 2011 04:03 PM (3OCZw)

Nobody bought into Reagan until after he grabbed the mike away in New Hampshire. Bush won Iowa, and was going to be the guy.

146 Too much second guessing the votes of OTHER PEOPLE going on here, folks.

Just say no.

It's a drug, like Other People's Money.

Don't do it.

147 All I can say is, he'd better not skip Iowa this time. That's the more moderate kind of place that he needs to win if he has any hope. If he needs to skip someplace, skip Mississippi or Arkansas, where they don't cotton to Yankee's anyhow.

Part of the problem with this guy is the way he seems to kinda just implode half way through the campaign.  It happened against Hillary for the Senate and then it happened again in 2008.  It's the same problem I have with Fred Thompson.  I don't trust this guy with my time and money.

148

@123: "How could anyone, anywhere consider Romney "far right"?  He wouldn't be far right in France, and is probably quite a bit to the left of the Republican center of political gravity."

He is to the right of Trotsky, therefore, to the media, he is a dangerous reich-wing extremist.

149 A presidential campaign provides a lot of face-time and opportunities to persuade the American people.

At this point people don't really have that much exposure to Palin unless they really like her and pay attention or they really hate her and find being hateful entertaining.  The reality television show probably got a lot more of the mostly-politically-disinterested middle America to see her than would otherwise have done and certainly to see her in a way that says "nice lady" even if not "presidential" and likely to illustrate the hatefulness of the haters.  But the presidential *race* itself will be political, even if the warm fuzzies of panning for gold with her kids hangs on.  And if she's been studying and seeking out advice and mentors (and I'm thinking that I know of Giuliani and didn't she actually meet for a couple of hours alone with Kissinger) and if she is aggressive (a given) and informed (my assumption) and says what makes sense to people, she could very well *win*.

The idea that she can't win and Romney could win so we should go with Romney is something I certainly reject.    I don't particularly dislike Romney (but would like him to explain lessons-learned from Romney-care) but I think that many people recognize that he *could have* won against Obama after the economy crashed *had he been* the Republican candidate.   And I think that that realization is holding over into a situation that isn't the same anymore.

In other words... it's easy to assume that he can win, because he could have won.

But it's an assumption made because of circumstances that existed for only a handful of months and don't exist any longer.    Yes, the economy sucks, still, but it's not in the same sort of *immediate* crisis that made Palin "sick to her stomach" thinking about it.   Things might be as dire, but the emotional kick to propel a bland moderate into the role of heroic rescuer is simply *gone*.

150 Posted by: Synova at January 07, 2011 04:56 PM (P0X9Q)

I really like Rudy. He's genuine. If we had to have a moderate easterner, I'd take him in a second. He's a fighter who won't bend over for the Democraps in the name of "bipartisanship". And if Palin is the nominee and needs a moderate VP to bring in indy's, I hope she picks him.

151 This is No Time for Old Men, except Reagan, and you're no Reagan.

It's over, Rudy.  I like you, but it's over.  Or do the names Dole and McCain mean nothing anymore?  

152 We've had 10 years of liberty-rape

The TSA=the suck <> liberty-rape,
neither is a little prosecutorial overreach.

When ordering a double shish-kebab starts to spontaneously generate FBI visits then I'll worry about liberty-rape.  Til then move your sign board I've got cats to walk here.

153 Mitt Romney? "Far right"?

Whoever these "sources" are, it's pretty obvious they're clueless.

154

I don't know if I can take two more years of the Romneyites and the Palinbots clashing over their crap candidates.

 

Goshalmighty, what a sorry field the GOP has right now.

155 Rudy, Rudy, Rudy - talk, talk, talk - get out front, you drag 'em!

156 Rudy, Rudy, Rudy - Talk! Talk! Talk! You can drag'em in.

157 Icecream:  I'm hoping that some new blood perculates up as we get closer to the silly season.  Huckabee will do his damnest to torpedo Romney again simple because R's a Mormos and Huck is a bigot.  Ruddy is too damned old and 'used.'  He's a horse that been ridden hard and put up wet.  McCain - I hope to God this man has the sense not to run again.  The old guard Republicans have been hoarding their pitiful little power/influence so that the obvious potential candidates are all stale.  It's NOBODY's "turn" to be a candidate.  THAT philosphy has been the downfall of the Grand Ol' Party - the Ol' part should not be taken too literally.

158 What he's trying to do is take advantage of a field that so far seems like it will be overfilled with conservatives. He is banking on no single one of them being a clear winner, while he comes in and pulls in all the moderates and liberals, and a few conservatives, enough to make himself the front runner and win a few key early primaries.

In other words, he's imitating the 2008 McCain strategy.

159 Why in the fuck would you want Rudy for President now? He was America's mayor 10 years ago. What has he done since except run a failed campaign for the presidency. A couple of big issues came up in the past two years. Trials for KSM in Manhattan. The GZM. The NY governor's race. The healthcare bill. Anyone remember where Rudy was on those issues? Next.

160 " ... and there's opportunity for a moderate candidate with a background in national security."

This is why he runs such half-assed campaigns. He absolutely is pimping his security firm and keeping his speaking fees high. Sarah Palin take note.

161 Huckabee will do his damnest to torpedo Romney again simple because R's a Mormos and Huck is a bigot.

They both stink and deserve one another. The great thing about these assholes both refusing to go away is they will take each other down again like in 2008.

162 the Mayor of 9/11 is of limited cache.

It's cachet, dude.

163 What is also striking about Massachusetts is how many serious presidential candidates it has produced over the last three decades: Edward Kennedy in 1980, Michael Dukakis in 1988, Paul Tsongas in 1992, John Kerry in 2004, Mitt Romney in 2008.

NationalJournal



So, over the last 30 years, presidential candidates from Massachusetts have either failed to win their party's nomination, or if they won it, have gone on to lose in the general election.

But Romney 2012 is different, uh why?