1 Ace,

David Carr

2 David Carr, Eli's current backup.

3 Funny that you forgot Carr's name since he was Eli's backup for a couple of years.

4 Winning . . . not everything . . . the only thing. or somesuch

5 Tebow just wins, that's all. He's won at every level, and yes, it is a team game, but obviously he brings something to the table that is, shall I say, an intangible?

"Wait til defenses adjust to him".
Yes, and your next point? Aren't defenses right now game planning for him during the week? Oh, they're going to wait until next year and figure it all out?

Heh.

6 Two words: Cam Newton

7 How do you know so much about football?

8
Tim Tebow is Terry Bradshaw but better.

9 I bet Cam Newton would gleefully trade his stats for Tebow's record. Also if Tebow's success leads to the end of the prevent defense it will be a great day.

10

Oh, you right-wingers and that whole 'winning' thing. I am going to introduce new legislation that will require anyone in football who acquires too much 'winning' to play the game with two sacks of concrete on their shoulders.

That will give the players that were not 'gaming the system' with their brains and stong bodies that they inherited through no effort of their own to have a chance at the American dream - being the best loser in a field of their peers.

Because that's what America is all about.

Regards, your SCOAMF.

11 Sometimes, a machine has a bunch of great parts, but one lousy part. You switch that out and suddenly everything works. Not because the new part is so great by itself, but it fits and works perfectly with every other part.

In this case, you start winning football games. If anyone claims that the "bottom line" is something other than winning games, they are an idiot at that moment in time.

12 Tim Tebow is Terry Bradshaw but better. Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 12:43 PM (sqkOB) Ha? When Tebow wins 4 super bowls get back to me

13
as I said earlier...

I think John Elway is a better judge of QB talent and potential than most anyone else.

The idea that Elway is "stuck" with Tebow or put Tebow out there to fail is ludicrous.

14 Anybody who thinks a low scoring team with a game manager QB and good defense can't win at all has forgotten Trent Dilfer and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

15
just sayin: Terry Bradshaw wasn't a great passer

But he was a winner.

16 By the way, Denver's next test is... the New england patriots. I think it's at least at Denver. 4:15 next sunday. Fortunately for Tebow, NE's defense is bad and might allow him to actually complete some passes before the 4th quarter. Unfortunately for Tebow, the Denver defense is going to have its hands full.

17
This writer goes on to knock Tebow for having poor pattern-recognition skills and not developing the ability to "see the whole field" quickly and make sound decisions not via the intellect but via feel and muscle memory. But that's ludicrous -- no debut quarterback can do that.

Ahem.

18 Living in the Denver Metro area, I am exposed to even more Tebow talk than the average American. I have never been a Bronco fan, although I will root for them more often than not. I am amazed how polarized fans are about Tim Tebow. Some think he's the new John Elway, others believe he's the anti-Christ bent on destroying the franchise. There does not seem to be much middle ground, which is where I sit. He's unconventional, to say the least, but the entire team seems to be on fire, and I see them in the playoffs, regardless of how fucking weird their games are played.

19 Hey, why no shout out to ME! I really helped that Tebow guy win the game!!! What are you, racist or something?

20 *loads shotgun*

21 Organizations and fans always try and qualify these things. It's understandable because you want to control every variable you can. The thing is, there are simply to many. Successful players, teams and organizations have an X factor or a couple of them. There's just "something" happens when all the preparation, people and opportunity meet.

The David Carr example is a great one. If he were drafted by the Patriots and not the expansion Texans, what would have happened to his career?

By the same token, everyone talks about Bill Belechik being a genius. Well, I remember him getting tossed out on his ear from Cleveland.

You can look at everything Tebow is doing and what the defense does (and didn't do before) and you can't say "this is why". That's what makes sports so much fun...you just never know how or why things go one way and not the other, you can only enjoy the hell out of it when it goes your way.

22
the Patriots' D is poor, but if NE's D is "bad" then GB's D is "really bad."

and the Saints' D, too

23 Tebow = Not-Romney.

24 Isn't another factor that the team really likes him? Football is a team game, and from what I hear, the other team members sincerely like Tebow. That has to be good for morale, which is going to translate into performance, no? That's certainly not everything, but if you have a good defense and an adequate quarterback with good management, then good team cohesion can tip the balance.

25 just sayin: Terry Bradshaw wasn't a great passer But he was a winner. Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 12:46 PM (sqkOB) Bradshaw might not have been the most accurate all time, but he was tough as nails and and could throw the ball a mile. I appreciate all Tebow is doing but lets not vote him into the hall of fame just yet

26

The Bears beat themselves yesterday, but it is hard to deny that Tebow is doing something special.  I'm a Bears fan so I know all about Kyle Orton the game manager.  But Orton didn't lead come from behind victories.  Game managers like Orton don't inspire an entire team to play out of their heads.    Let Tebow play.  Stop hating the guy because he is pious and because he isn't Tom Brady.  Even Urlacher takes a dig at Tebow calling him a good RB.  That's nice Brian, but he just beat you asswipe. 

I'm rooting for Tebow because he has so many haters.  I hate haters.

27 So, you are saying that Tebow is good because he knows his limitations and doesn't have a swollen head, and therefore doesn't do flashy but risky stuff designed to improve his own stats or prestige?

28 This writer goes on to knock Tebow Barky for having poor pattern-recognition skills and not developing the ability to "see the whole field" quickly and make sound decisions not via the his vaunted and mythical intellect but via feel and muscle memory consulting with people who, without exception, know far more than he does now or ever will.

Context: it's what's for dinner

29 All that matters is W in the win column.

Bonus: He is a nice guy and doesn't try to hog the spotlight.  What a refreshing change.  When sportscasters and other NFL players make fun of him they just make themselves look petty and small.  BTW, I'm a Charger fan and I'm rooting for the Broncos.

30 If he get's the job done, that's all that really matters.

I'm not sure he even cares.  He gets the job done, goes home, and remains himself.  That's more than you can say for a lot of people.

31 "This writer goes on to knock Tebow for having poor pattern-recognition skills and not developing the ability to "see the whole field" quickly and make sound decisions not via the intellect but via feel and muscle memory. But that's ludicrous -- no debut quarterback can do that. Not even Peyton Manning did that."

Andy Dalton ain't doing so bad.

I think you're right about Carr. Even Tim Couch might have been better if Palmer hadn't panicked in 1999 and yanked Ty Detmer before the new Browns' second game in existence. Couch had more working against him, starting with not having Carr's talent. Not a strong arm, played in a "no-playbook" offense at Kentucky (apparently even looser than the Run and Shoot, if that's even possible), allegedly not real big on breaking down tape (that last is the worst knock, if true).

32 Posted by: sunny-dee (formerly Ella) at December 12, 2011 12:48 PM (YZ2pi)

Don't forget he did this in college too.

His team lost a game and he came out and gave a press conference saying he would make sure everyone was prepared from that point forward, they would do everything they could to win every game and not repeat the mistakes they made. He did, the team ran the table and won the championship.

Leadership...it matters.

33 Yeah, but does he get paid $7.5 million a year? That's MY definition of a winner, no matter HOW many games you lose.

Did I mention I get paid $7.5 million a year?

34 The idea that Elway is "stuck" with Tebow or put Tebow out there to fail is ludicrous.

So how come Elway looks like someone just raped him every time Tebow scores?

35 Sacks are hell on a QB at any stage of development.  If the Denver O-line is saving Tebow, and the Defense is keeping it close, God is on his side.

36 Anybody who thinks a low scoring team with a game manager QB and good defense can't win at all has forgotten Trent Dilfer and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

And that is the perfect example of wrong headed conventional wisdom. Baltimore hated Dilfer and the Coach believed that getting a productive QB would make them a dynasty. So the ditched Dilfer and ended up with crap for years.

37 I'm looking forward to the New England/Denver game this weekend.  I'm a New England fan (what with living in New England and all), and I think anyone would agree that Tom Brady is head and shoulders above Tim Tebow as a pure quarterback.  But to me, it will be all about the defenses.  The Pats' defense is AWFUL.  Just miserable.  And NE never, ever, ever plays well in Denver.  I think the team will be itching to reestablish some dominance after their piss poor win over the Redskins this past Sunday, but it will be an interesting game.  I have no idea who will win.

38
Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

39 So, you are saying that Tebow is good because he knows his limitations and doesn't have a swollen head, and therefore doesn't do flashy but risky stuff designed to improve his own stats or prestige?

He's the anti-SCoaMF.

40 I'm at the point I wish Tebow would replace friggen Romo.

41 Timmah!

42 23
the Patriots' D is poor, but if NE's D is "bad" then GB's D is "really bad."

and the Saints' D, too

Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 12:48 PM (sqkOB)

Pikers

43 Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

I think he is. Elway didn't like Tebow only 2 weeks ago, but has since come around to thinking that he "might be a good QB". Some other site (nfl.com, I think) had a story that Denver just stuck him out there for a few weeks to shut the fans up, but since he is winning they had no idea what to do.

44 I'd actually be interested to know if Tebow's faith helps provide him with a certain solitude/calmness that lets him perform in the fourth quarter. Even at the NFL level, players get nerves at crunch time, and often do things they wouldn't due during the first 45 minutes of the game.

Tebow seems to be as much about what the other players don't do in the final 15 minutes as what he himself does -- it's just more noticeable than with other quarterbacks known for their fourth quarter comebacks (including Tim's boss with the Bronchos) because the difference is so stark, but there are some QBs who have the internal ability not to have their level of play affected under pressure, while others don't tend to step up down the stretch. And the same applies to players in other positions; some step up (or at least aren't bothered by the yips) at crunch time, and some do not. For all his other flaws in mechanics, Tebow has so far shown himself to be in the former category.

45 Irony-isn't David Carr one of the back up quarterbacks for the New York Giants?

46

 The Pats' defense is AWFUL.  Just miserable. 

Yeah, they made Rex Grossman look good yesterday. This will be an interesting game.

47 I'm at the point I wish Tebow would replace friggen Romo.

Ha!  I picked up a point by beating against Dallas last night, and I'm a fan.

May Jerry Jones spend eternity upside down in a septic tank for what he has done to the Cowboys.

48 I watched Tebow do this same thing to my Dawgs when he was at Florida.

There's no way we can be losing to these chumps!!!, I screamed at my t.v. But enjoy it now because there's no way you'll succeed the NFL.

On a related note, anybody know a good recipe for crow?

49 Format fail. It goes like this: Something about football happening. Obligatory dig at DiT (or alternatively whoever it is that DiT hates right now.) Cheerleader pic. That's how it goes. It always has.

50
Then what's Elway's thinking process?

Okay, we'll put Tim out there, he'll fail, and then we'll....

???

What's Elway's Plan C?

51 I always root against Gizelle on principle... It's the way he shakes his hair out, purses his lips-and either sulks or storms on the sidelines... Gawd!

52 What's Elway's Plan C?


Going 1-17 and picking up RGIII.

53 Well there goes that plan.

54 Oh, President Obama is a stuttering cluster _ _ _ _ of a miserable failure.

Bradshaw was a high school national champion in the javelin throw. He was a pretty good passer. He put his index finger on top of the football and threw darts, sometimes to the other guys.

And I'm hoping the Colts go OH-fer so they can share the books with the Lions. The Lions have done a lot of bad things, but it would be nice to see the Colts (a model franchise for years) along side them.

55

The idea that Elway is "stuck" with Tebow or put Tebow out there to fail is ludicrous.  Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

I don't know, Elway's been an utter fucking bitch in public about Tebow.  I think he's happy they're winning, but he really is acting like it's an insult to him, personally, that Tebow is the one doing it.  I really think that Elway was half assedly assuming they'd be in the running to get Luck and then he'd get the chance to groom the next Elway for Denver.  Now he's not and he's being pissy about it.

Drew, you brought up Belichick just to make my eye twitch.  I know you did, do not lie.  Every time someone goes on and on and on about how he's a genius, I start screaming TELL THAT TO THE BROWNS!

 

 

56 Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

Yes.  I get NFL Sunday Ticket so I've seen lots of Tebow comebacks.  Elway nearly always looks miserable when Denver's offense succeds.  And I understand it, even: he was brought in to remake the Broncos in his image.  Elway was such a prototype NFL QB he probably came in a white box with black print that said "QB".   And here we have a very non-prototype QB (who was drafted by Shanny, I believe) just going out there and winning.

57 >>> I'd actually be interested to know if Tebow's faith helps provide him with a certain solitude/calmness that lets him perform in the fourth quarter. Even at the NFL level, players get nerves at crunch time, and often do things they wouldn't due during the first 45 minutes of the game. What happens when Tebow loses? Does he lose faith? Professionals are sort of calm. They've lost before. They've lost heartbreakers before. I don't really understand why/how Tebow's faith would make him both an extreme competitor, to whom winning is important, but also give him solace in a loss.

58 @27, you said it. I heard about Urlacher, and my first thought was "Scoreboard, baby."

59 I'm really trying to watch the maliki-obama presser but it is unwatchable

60 Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 12:53 PM (sqkOB)

I think the point is that Elway would probably prefer a more conventional quarterback with fewer idiosyncracies and flaws.  Idiosyncracies and flaws will eventually be learned, dissected, and planned for by opposing teams.  That's why running a "unique" offense week after week isn't sustainable.  Eventually everyone knows how to counter your playcalling. 

And quarterbacks are first and foremost supposed to throw the ball.  That means he's got to get his throwing mechanics under control if he's going to have any longevity.  Just ask Michael "I'm not a running back, really!" Vick. 

Elway knows that the longer Tebow keeps winning, the harder it's going to be to replace him with a "good" quarterback.  Which will be a moot point if Tebow can up his game, and I think he can and he will.  I have loads of respect for the guy; a helluva lot more respect than I have for 85% of the other players in the NFL.

But anytime his team wins, I'm sure Elway's happy.  A win is a win is a win.

61 Something Y-not and some other commenters discussed last week was that a good chunk of the elite QBs all sat behind a solid QB for a while before starting. The only real exceptions to that recently are the Manning brothers (and hello! Look who their dad is. They had football coaching from birth). Hell, most of those we think of as "the greatest" were low draft picks or were traded off their first teams early after poor starts. And of course, a QB has to have a decent team around him or some kind of chemistry with them to start with in order for him to be really good. My hubby is a big Bucs fan and can rattle off quite the list of elite QBs from the 80s that were drafted by Tampa who stunk on ice for a season or two there then were traded away only to become fan-freaking-tastic. I dunno why we expect these QBs to be Peyton Manning level right out of the gate and then trash them when it takes them a while to get to pro level. It's absurd.

62 Didn't Elway suck really bad during his first couple of years at Denver?

63 Maybe with time Tebow will become a decent passer. It remains to be seen. I think the thing that's working for him now is that he's a catalyst. He's able to get tired people fired up again. Your point about his not making mistakes and knowing his own limitations is good, but he definitely lacks technical skills. What I fear is that he'll go into the off season, start to believe the hype, come back next year and try to be a hero and then blow things up. The only way forward for him is to (1) Practice practice practice and (2) stay humble.

64 Posted by: John at December 12, 2011 12:57 PM (u1DzY)

That's a really good point.

I think the SB Nation guy is wrong to say Tebow is just a very good game manager. He doesn't manage the game in the 4th quarter, he takes it over. There are a lot of very good traditional QBs who aren't simply game managers (think Eli Manning and Tony Romo) who come up small as often (if not more) as they do big in those situations.

Over the long term Tebow won't win them all, but he he certainly has another gear that the Trent Dillfers of the world don't.

65 Didn't Elway suck really bad during his first couple of years at Denver? Posted by: Wall-E at December 12, 2011 01:01 PM (48wze) His team sucked, the game plan sucked, but Elway was ALWAYS tremendously talented.

66 By the way, who gets Andrew Luck next year?

67

Professionals are sort of calm. They've lost before. They've lost heartbreakers before

Tell that to Marion Barber who ran out of bounds with the clock winding down.

People do all sorts of stupid, inexplicable stuff in pressure situations.

68
There seems to be some kind of focus that happens with Tebow.  He went 10 for 10 at one point late in the game after going 0fer a bunch earlier (yes some drops).

I have always been fascinated with that part of human nature where people absolutely will something to happen, whether it is sports or war or astronauts or mamma's saving their kid.  It seems to be in all of us, but just can't come out for many and easier for others.

69 >>> Irony-isn't David Carr one of the back up quarterbacks for the New York Giants? he was. I'm not sure if he is anymore. I think probably not. I have given up on the giants these last two seasons. I dunno. Last night was the first time I found out we had a good player named Jason Pierre-Pont (sp?) so take my football knowlegin' with a grain of salt.

70
as soon as Elway drove Reeves out of town...

71 In before the guy that screams the world is on fire and you're discussing football!!!1!!1!!

(did I make it in time??)

72 I remember when Ben R was just a game manager because he only threw 20 times while his defense did the job. He will develop.

73 What it really means to be a game manager quarterback is... you are a team player. You are putting the team above yourself. Do you think maybe that comes naturally to someone who already believes that there is a higher power above himself, and is damned hard for a narcissistic jock atheist?

74 At Drudge. Kagan Recuses

75 Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

Yes, Elway is an arrogant prick.  Wants his team to win, but not at the expense of "his reputation" as a great (and I use that losely) QB.

76

>>>By the way, who gets Andrew Luck next year?

 

Who cares. He's overhyped. I'm sure he'll be a decent QB, but he's no Peyton Manning.

I've stopped paying attentioned to the most hyped plays since the 2006(or was it 2007 draft).

Do you remember the Reggie Bush sweepstakes? 

That was also the year that Matt Leinhart and Vince Young came out. 

They were all overhyped and they all have had pretty terrible careers. I think Leinhart and Young have been outright busts.

77 >>>. The only real exceptions to that recently are the Manning brothers (and hello! Look who their dad is. They had football coaching from birth). Eli got one year behind a fading-but-still-talented Kurt Warner.

78 At Drudge. Kagan Recuses wow-thanks for the heads up.

79

dangit...hit the button too soon.

At Drudge: Kagan Recuses herself from the Arizona immigration case.

80 Or was it Kurt Warner, or did they bring that guy in from the panthers? Or was it both?

81 76 At Drudge. Kagan Recuses

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 12, 2011 01:05 PM (LyOUH)

For Arizona. Still in for BambiCare.

82 52 Then what's Elway's thinking process? Okay, we'll put Tim out there, he'll fail, and then we'll.... ??? What's Elway's Plan C? Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 12:59 PM (sqkOB) First round pick.

83 The only way forward for him is to (1) Practice practice practice and (2) stay humble.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at December 12, 2011 01:02 PM (RD7QR)

If it were any other player, I'd say that's unlikely.  With Tebow?  I think it's a very strong possibility.  He hasn't let the hype change him yet, and I don't think he will.

84

 

Who was the QB from Oregon who was drafted by the Lions a few years back.

I remember thinking he was going to be a good QB, but like David Carr, he never had a chance.

85 Anybody who thinks a low scoring team with a game manager QB and good defense can't win at all has forgotten Trent Dilfer and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

Jim McMahan and the Bears come to mind, also.

And Doug Williams.

86 The Denver Post says that Elway will be personally working with Tebow all offseason.

One thing that people forget about Tebow is that he has an outstanding work effort. Couple that with lessons from Elway and you ahve a beast in the making.

87
if the Giants miss the playoffs, Coughlin is finished.

same goes for Dallas


prediction: Andy Reid will be coaching in Dallas next season

88 The Broncos just need to bite the bullet, hire Zombie Pop Warner and run the single wing.

89 After watching the end of yesterday's game where the TV camera's made it a point to show Elway and the celebrations going on in that sky box, how can anyone say Elway wants Tebow to lose?

90

Are you seriously saying that Elway is disappointed when his team and Tebow succeed on the field?

Sadly, yes. They immediately cut to Elway in the box when they scored the TD and I posted at that moment that I had never seen an owner look so disheartened by his own team scoring.

91

Anybody who thinks a low scoring team with a game manager QB and good defense can't win at all has forgotten Trent Dilfer and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

The Brocos D is good, but the 2000 Ravens was one of the best defenses in NFL history.

 

92

I'm rooting for Tebow because he has so many haters.  I hate haters.

Posted by: California Red at December 12, 2011 12:49 PM (DXTKe)

 

I agree.  Tebow is okay.  Could be better, could be worse.  Just because he won't back down about his displays towards God.  Leave him alone.

If you don't like it, go get yourself a t-shirt that says 'I don't belive in God'.

I'm sure it won't upset him (or me) if you wear it.

 

93

if the Giants miss the playoffs, Coughlin is finished.

A case of very, very short memory for that organziation.

I'm in Jax, and for one, would be damn glad to take him back if they don't want him.

94 named Jason Pierre-Pont Oh ya that was awesome-particularly after the Packers game...the Giants almost had the Packers! Is that guy from Haiti-there was a player from USAFA made like four interceptions against Notre Dame and his name was- Dieudonne-which almost literally translated to-"God Given"- wow I'm off on a tangent but the AF operated on that guy's eyes multiple times to try to get him qualified for a UPT slot or whatever...

95
It was Kurt Warner who started for the NYG before he went to AZ. Coughlin took a lot of heat for it.

I don't think Delhomme ever played for the Giants.

96 Some people would prefer the broncos to just keep losing with orton who didn't give a damn about winning and losing, all he cared about was padding his stats.

97 31 The Colts are only one loss away from officially becoming part the French Army. Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp

I am so stealing that one.

98 ....because it was frickin' Notre Dame. (four interceptions sounds a little high...)

99 First round pick.

Would've been a bad year to be in a race for that with the way we're playing.

100 He wins and its fun to watch, even if it ain't always pretty. I can't help but like him.

101 >>A case of very, very short memory for that organziation.

>>>I'm in Jax, and for one, would be damn glad to take him back if they don't want him.

 

Indeed, fans need to look at the state of their team before that coach arrived. 

It's not like there are a lot of better coaching options out there right now.

Everyone seems to want Bill Cowher, but he's not a very good coach. He always put a solid team together every year, but he was terrible at game planning and making halftime changes. The fact that he only won one superbowl in his tenure is not a good thing. Especially when you consider just how good the Steelers defense was in the mid to late 1990s

102
another prediction: Jeff Fisher will be in Philadelphia Washington next season

103 >> First round pick.

Drafting quarterbacks is about as exact a science as global warmening.

Joe Montana - 3rd round pick. Tom Brady - 6th round.

Meanwhile in the first round: Trent Dilfer, Cade McNown, Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler ...

104

Tebow is a tough, smart kid with his heart & mind in the right place - God favors the type.

 

but why did he have to do it to my Bears!!!

105 Tebow didn't beat the cowgirls, he's dead to me. 

The only thing in football that matters to me is for the people of Arlington Texas to suffer under draconian taxes to pay for that new stadium, for a loosing team.

106

I think Tom Brady was pretty solid at that out the gate, but I also think he had one more year of experience as a back-up, and also, he is freakishly good at playing the game with his eyes.

Wasn't Aaron Rodgers the back up for three years?  I think there's something to be said for the whole not having to go out there and carry the team right away thing.  See re:  Cam Newton.  Newton is fantastic and has an unreal amount of natural talent and I'm sure he would love to be able to win with that talent instead of having everyone go on and on about how great he was and oh by the way they lost. 

On the staying calm thing, I think for Tebow it's more of a been there done that attitude.  Of course he believes they can come back because he's done it before. 

I did love the kicker saying he'd be thrilled to be kicking extra points instead of game winning 50+ yard field goals.  That was hilarious.

107 I am a Florida Seminole who likes Tim Tebow (and who despises Urban Meyer). Tim is a nice guy, and he is what you see in public. If he isn't a good guy who visits sick children and puts God first, then he fooled many in Florida for many years. He may not be Peyton Manning when it comes to passes, but he is a bulldozer when he has to make up yards and win. I hope the Broncos continue to win, as I love what Tim's faith is doing to the liberals in the media.

There is a good article in WSJ about Tebow. It shows a group of Marines in dress blues "tebowing" on one knee in the photo slideshow. Classic.

108 but why did he have to do it to my Bears!!!

I'm a Vikings fan.  Get in line ;-)

109 86
Who was the QB from Oregon who was drafted by the Lions a few years back.
I remember thinking he was going to be a good QB, but like David Carr, he never had a chance.
Posted by: Ben at December 12, 2011 01:08 PM (wuv1c)

Stafford, their current QB, from Oregon State.

110

Who cares. He's overhyped. I'm sure he'll be a decent QB, but he's no Peyton Manning.

I've stopped paying attentioned to the most hyped plays since the 2006(or was it 2007 draft).

Do you remember the Reggie Bush sweepstakes? 

That was also the year that Matt Leinhart and Vince Young came out. 

They were all overhyped and they all have had pretty terrible careers. I think Leinhart and Young have been outright busts.

Posted by: Ben at December 12, 2011 01:06 PM (wuv1c)

The terms greatest player to come out in decades or can't miss player  is thrown around pretty loosely by the Draft 'Experts' these days, nobody knows how a player will transition to the NFL, plenty of broken careers and checkbooks to prove it. 

111 Kerri Collins, that's who I was thinking of. I think the Giants brought in Warner for one year, then Kerri Collins. Eli was behind one or both of them. Maybe it was Kerry Collins, then Kurt Warner (when they drafted Eli and he was on the bench but heir apparent).

112

You guys are missing the fact that Tebows receivers dropped a lot of balls yesterday, one for a sure touchdown. I think I counted 7 drops where he hit the receivers right in the hands.

Denver needs to trade for Riley Cooper and get those two back together again.

113 >> Stafford, their current QB, from Oregon State.

Stafford went to UGA

114 I laughed at Elway getting caught dipping by the cameras during Ot yesterday.

115
Collins went to the Super Bowl with the Giants when they lost to the Ravens, I think.

And then came Kurt.

116 Well, what F&F said this morning was that he WAS a team player and the team really did want to play for him.

117

Who was the QB from Oregon who was drafted by the Lions a few years back.

Joey Harrington.

118
I think it was Super Bowl 2001, the 2000 season Giants vs Ravens.

119
then the Patriots won, then the Bucs, then Pats x2

120 "Eli got one year behind a fading-but-still-talented Kurt Warner. " You're right, he did. I damn-near forgot about that. what I remember most about Eli's first season in the NFL is his refusal to play for the chargers and the crazy trading that ensued to get him to NY.

121 And this Andrew Luck hype is over the top. Watching him throw pick 6's to guys who will never play in the NFL (on Oregon & USC) should confirm that.

122 RG III to Washington?

123 111 86
Who was the QB from Oregon who was drafted by the Lions a few years back.
I remember thinking he was going to be a good QB, but like David Carr, he never had a chance.
Posted by: Ben at December 12, 2011 01:08 PM (wuv1c)

Stafford, their current QB, from Oregon State.

Posted by: Jeremiad was a Bullfrog at December 12, 2011 01:16 PM (UzjcV)

Uh no, Stafford went to Georgia

124 I gotta tell ya, I thought I was getting on the Denver broncos bandwagon just because they'd be fun to watch. Wide-open crazy option offense! Yay! In fact, for two and a half hours, I saw the lamest offense I've ever seen. Was that the option? I don't know. Whatever it was, it seemed to not work. On the other side of the ball, the Denver defense restricted the Bears' offense but in that way which is boring to watch.* So, boring football! Really boring! Except for the three minutes at the end. * Some defense is just boring to watch because they just basically make the offense look ineffectual. There are no "touchdowns" scored by the defense, like sacks, interceptions, strips, tackles in the backfield. If a defense doesn't do those eye-catching things, they may play very very well, but it will just be very boring to watch, as nothing seems to be happening either way.

125 124 RG III to Washington?

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at December 12, 2011 01:21 PM (KOQBP)

Don't tease me like that.

126

By the way, Denver's next test is... the New england patriots. I think it's at least at Denver. 4:15 next sunday.

Fortunately for Tebow, NE's defense is bad and might allow him to actually complete some passes before the 4th quarter.

Unfortunately for Tebow, the Denver defense is going to have its hands full.

Yup. He has to cut the bullshit and bring it in all 4 quarters, do whatever he does in the 4th in the first 3... or it just won't be good enough.

That's probably what most people have said most games but I dare him to defy me again.

127 Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at December 12, 2011 01:23 PM (RD7QR)

(heh)

128

>>>>May Jerry Jones spend eternity upside down in a septic tank for what he has done to the Cowboys.<<<<

Tom Landry knew that "Character matters", and there were some VERY talented players that he passed on bringing to the Cowboys because he knew that they weren't going to bring anything OTHER than athletic talent to the table.....

Jerry, on the other hand, is always distracted by the newest shiny toy, regardless of the fact that it is a cheap piece of crap that will fall apart if it isn't treated with kid gloves.

Give me a team full of Tonka trucks....

129 Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 12, 2011 01:10 PM (LyOUH) I keep hearing rumors that Jeff Fisher might coach the Jags. Apparently, he bought a home in the area a year or so back, so he's already local. I dunno though. I gave up on them after week 5. Basically been pulling for the Broncos cause my Jags aren't getting anywhere near the playoffs this year. 'Twas nice to see them annihilate the Bucs yesterday, though. My hubby just about went ballistic.

130 Talk about football, fine. Can't you see that the average moron needs pictures to go with these kind of words?

131

In fact, for two and a half hours, I saw the lamest offense I've ever seen.

Run run run punt.

Run run run punt back.

Run run run punt back again.

I think there 3 factors that led up to those 3 >50Y field goals.

1) Both great kickers.

2) Thin high altitude air.

3) LOTS OF WARM UP.

Both those teams were kicking that ball back and forth across the field all night.

And all the missed (catchable) passes on both sides... that game was irritating.

132 I saw TT's post-game press conference. He gave all the credit to his teammates. And also credited the Bears defense. Class act, all the way

133 Michael Vick was great last year. Then teams got a large body of film on him. Tebow will be the same.

Muh, what do I care: As an owner of the Packers, I've been able to watch a real QB for the last 15+ years. And right now, we've got--hands down, regardless of what that mouth-drooling retard Skip Bayless says--the best QB in the NFL.

134

I don't disagree with anything said in this post. In fact I'd like to point out that Peyton Manning had several similarities. He started with a coach that was "defense first" minded, then he was given a great mentor as a QB coach in Tom Moore. Early on Peyton was taught to keep things close and not turnover anything as they built the rest of the team around him. It took 2 years for Peyton to come up to speed and for the Colts to find the offensive line combination that could defend him and give him the extra .3 seconds he needed at the time. At that time Tony Dungy's priorities were all defensive acquisitions. It was Tom Moore who coached Peyton through that early process and got him into a situation where he could recognize defensive patterns and call audibles into that defense.

What Peyton brought to the job was actually a LOT similar to Tebow's situation: He was good but he actually WASN'T the most athletic NFL draftee ever. He brought brains, a willingness to work hard and learn, and something very hard to quantify called CHARACTURE which made him an excellent student under Tom Moore's guidance.

Tom Moore's retired. I have no idea who's guiding Tebow. What I do recognize is the presence of characture and the opportunity that's unfolding for him. *IF* he can remain unhurt for the next year or two, I expect him to develope into a very good NFL QB. At worst I seem him fitting into the middle ranks of the NFL's QB corps. With luck and time to learn he is capable of growing into the individual star status that every NFL QB seeks. I don't expect him to replace the legend of Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas overnight. At best, it will take years for him to grow his own legend.

It can happen.

135 Tom Landry knew that "Character matters", and there were some VERY talented players that he passed on bringing to the Cowboys because he knew that they weren't going to bring anything OTHER than athletic talent to the table.....

Nothing but respect for Landry, but "Hollywood Henderson"?

136

Because he doesn't throw a lot of interceptions, Denver's defense (which is really a lot more responsible for Tebow's success than his arm or his legs or his faith) is never far out of the game.

And because Britton Colquitt is playing like the best punter since Ray Guy, Denver's defense has a much easier job. A fair catch at the 10 means the D can give up a first down and still be at even, compared to a touchback.

137

Who was the QB from Oregon who was drafted by the Lions a few years back.

>>Joey Harrington.

 

That's it. I really liked the guy and thought he would be a decent intermediate passer, but he was destroyed in Detroit.

 

There are a lot of QBs who I think would have been good, or even great, had they been drafted by a different team or had a different coaching staff.

Look at Alex Smith in San Francisco. Everyone thinks he's awful and along comes a coach who decides to play to his strengths instead of trying to push a round object into a square hole.

 

Adaptation and innovation is actually one of the reasons Dick Lebeau is one of the greatest defensive coordinators in history. He's alters the defense based on the strengths of his players. If he has a hard hitting strong safety, he finds a way to use him properly. He doesn't try to force him to be a cover safety. Same with linebackers and d-linemen.  Part of being a good coach is the ability to play to your strengths rather than try to adhere to some strict plan/scheme.

138
that's true, too

Hester was a non-factor in yesterday's game.

139

I've been able to watch a real QB for the last 15+ years.

Nothing is static.

That which does not change, dies.

There won't just be 1 way to play the game forever.

Sooner or later someone will come up with the 'cheap gimmick' that makes pocket passing 'obsolete' and 'no longer sustainable in pro football'.

140
For example, Hester had a 25yd return.
But it started 9yds deep in the end zone.

141 I like the end of that article, which suggests that Tebow Time only exists because opposing Defensive Coordinators go to a prevent defense against him late in a game, which is silly, because the regular defense absolutely stymied him earlier. It could be that Tebow is ONLY good at defeating the prevent defense, and that opponents keep putting up the one defense he can be effective against.

142

>>Michael Vick was great last year. Then teams got a large body of film on him. Tebow will be the same.

Michael Vick wasn't great last year. They had a better team last year.

Michael Vick is and will always be a loser. He's a run first QB who is wildly inaccurate.  His biggest problem, aside from being in jail for a few years, is that he's done developing.

He's never going to be a better QB than he is now or was when he came into the league.  He wasn't a raw talent to be molded. He was already and end product when he came into the league. 

He still makes the same stupid mistakes he did in his first years in the league. There is no maturation for him.  What you see is all he'll ever be. 

 

143 ben, I think the schemes have become so complex, trying to wring out tiny little advantages here and there, that they cannot adapt easily to a players' particular strengths, and the Scheme is ultimately the master. thus they need specific types of people to fill the Scheme's specific slots.

144
When talking about how great Tebow is right out of the gate, you should also include Big Ben.

Dude is still tearing the league up, and is never given credit for what he does.

Perhaps because he is so good.

145

Countless quarterbacks have been asked to become game managers but have chosen to perilously overstep their bounds just to escape the label, even at the expense of team wins.

Cordell Stewart. I'm thinking of the 1997 AFC Championship Game. Pittsburgh was better than Denver that day. Stewart literally threw the game away with his aspirationally heroic, intercepted passes.

146

>>I think the schemes have become so complex, trying to wring out tiny little advantages here and there, that they cannot adapt easily to a players' particular strengths, and the Scheme is ultimately the master. thus they need specific types of people to fill the Scheme's specific slots.

I would agree that is how most teams run.  A new coach comes in with a new scheme and it's a several year rebuilding process. You can't fill all the slots in one offseason and you have to deal with many players already under contract who do not fit within the new scheme.

However, the best coaches are the ones who can adapt to what they have to work with as Harbaugh has done with San Francisco.  That 10-3 SF team this year is almost the exact same team they were last year.

If a team decides to give it's coach 3-4 years to rebuild, then scheme first is a fine idea. It gives you time to get rid of the players who don't fit and bring in ones who do.  However, most teams in the NFL give new coachs 1-2 years. That's not enough.  So in a league where you have such a short window to create a turn around, you are better suited planning based on what you have at the time. 

147

There are a lot of QBs who I think would have been good, or even great, had they been drafted by a different team or had a different coaching staff.

Bears traded Orton to the Broncos for Cutler.

Orton sucked in both places. Cutler sucked in Denver. He's been great for Chicago.

Which is why they're boned without him. Orton, Grossman?

It took us a decade to find 1 good QB... we don't have a 2nd one if he breaks his thumb.

148

>>Cordell Stewart. I'm thinking of the 1997 AFC Championship Game. Pittsburgh was better than Denver that day. Stewart literally threw the game away with his aspirationally heroic, intercepted passes.

 

Ahh Kordell.

3 ints and 2 fumbles if I remember correctly. I was at that game. It was painful.

It goes back to my earlier comment about Cowher. It is damning that he only won one superbowl given the talented teams he had between 1994-2005

149 >>>Stewart literally threw the game away with his aspirationally heroic, intercepted passes. Heh. How ya gonna beat the fantasy out of these guys? that bothers me, the "aspirationally heroic" passes, as you say. Eli does this, of course, especially early in the game. When the giants are on their own 10 or 15, Eli loves dumping off to the back who is two yards upfield in the flat, and who, if he caught the ball at all, might be able to make a 4 yard gain by falling forward after a tackle. And what happens? Everyone knows Eli is going to do this, and the corner comes running up, UNEXPECTEDLY, as the AP might say, and picks it, and runs for a walk-in TD. Eli insists on trying to make that pass. Why? To gain 4 yards? Why not just sail it right on over that back's head, close enough so you don't get a grounding penalty, but high enough that no one on the field can catch it? But he's got that fucking THING where he believes THIS TIME, I WILL THROW A PERFECT DART, and no, not so much, dude. Another pick-6, all in the service of attempting a 4 yard gain, at best.

150

Which is why they're boned without him. Orton, Grossman?

>>It took us a decade to find 1 good QB... we don't have a 2nd one if he breaks his thumb.

 

Yeah, but look at Cedric Benson. A total bust in Chicago, but a very good RB in Cinnci.

151 Oh, and while Denver's defense deserves the bulk of the credit here, Michael Irvin also pointed out that Denver had the same defense when they opened the season 1 and 4.

And this defense had little hope of Orton's offense (with better receivers) ever coming back after falling behind. The other difference is the RB McGahee, but they had him also in games 1-4. He was stuffed everytime.

152 If all the dropped balls Tebow threw were caught instead yesterday he would have finished with a 75% completion ratio and people would have a different take on him today.

153
I don't know why they won't insert the no-huddle (not hurry up) for Tebow.  He thrives that way as does Denver's running game.

154

I've stayed out of the Tebow debate because I'll be accused of letting my college homerism color my opinion, but it's not biased to point out that his mechanics and footwork are awful. Denver has had to run a college offense because he can't adapt, and somehow pointing that out makes one a "hater" or means they're objecting to his shows of faith. That's not it, regardless of how much the sports media wants to spin it that way. Lazy hacks like Peter King jock sniff him to no end despite all his obvious flaws, while at the same time giving no love to the Denver defense, which is damn impressive.

As for his poor ability to read defenses, yes he's inexperienced, but other young QBs have managed. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton and others have gotten a decent grasp of the game as rookies, so that's not always an excuse.

155 Tebow beat the Jets and they don't play a prevent defense. Da Bears went to one because they should have been burned by a long touchdown pass earlier in the game but the pass was dropped, and there were like 6 or 7 other dropped passes in the game. I think that was the difference in the game, Denver's receivers started making plays instead of playing like rookies. Plus, Tebow is Jesus.

156 One thing I coluldn't fit in the tweet Ace quoted was that the goal of most NFL coaches is not winning but not getting fired. So it's ok to lose so long as it's not thought that the loss is your fault. If you go against the conventional wisdom and lose... that's lethal to your job security. Few coaches other than Belichek can take that chance. If you go against the con wisdom and win - they you're daring and lucky and if it doesn't work next time... you're still in trouble. So coaches play Prevent agains Tebow late in the game EVEN IF THEY KNOW IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA because if they don't and Tebow hits the bome - they're fired. But if Tebow dissects the Prevent - well, that's just God's Will.

157

I think the Giants should actively look for a tight end in the draft or in FA this offseason. I think Eli would be a much better QB if he had two pass catching TEs. 

158

Run run run punt.

Run run run punt back.

Run run run punt back again.

Yes! In a game like this, the winning team usually has the better punter. That's how the Broncos won in overtime against the Chargers. If special teams can take away two 10-yard punt returns, their net gain is 20 yards' of field position. So:

Run run run punt back again again.

Run run run field goal.

159 More Tebow t-shirts, please. They seem to be sold out!!!

160 Tebow, actually, reminds me of Kyle Orton. Remember, Orton was a rookie who was made the starter by the 2005 Bears when Rex Grossman was injured and Chad Hutchinson, the backup, was atrocious. That year, Orton showed a lot of poise: he was not a great QB, but he didn't make many mistakes, either, and the Bears made it into the playoffs.

Tebow, like Orton, has tremendous poise for someone that young and inexperienced, and he doesn't panic. As to how well he fares in the future, that will depend on his physical skills and how well he develops them - and how long the Denver defense will keep him in the game despite being shut out for 58 minutes.

161

>>So coaches play Prevent agains Tebow late in the game EVEN IF THEY KNOW IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA because if they don't and Tebow hits the bome - they're fired. But if Tebow dissects the Prevent - well, that's just God's Will.

Prevent defense is fine if you're up by three scores, not if you're up by 7 or 10.

 

People hate prevent defenses, but they do work if implemented at the right time.  They are designed to let the other team move up field at 10-15 yards per play in the center of the field.  Again, if the other team is within one score, the prevent isn't a good idea.

162

This isn't a Tebow question, but more general.  What's the feeling in Philly about Andy Reid?  Is he still there next year or will he be gone?  I don't think he'll have much trouble finding another coaching job somewhere if he leaves.

And did anyone ever pick up hapless Donovan McNabb off waivers?  I kind of want to send a letter to ESPN:

Dear ESPN,

Feel free to apologize to Rush Limbaugh any day now.

Sincerely,
MWR

163 I always thought that Patrick Ramsey had some potential to be, if not elite, at least a franchise level QB for the Redskins. He was drafted same year as David Carr, but he was a victim of Spurrier's fun and gun offense, and seemed to be sacked something like a dozen times a game. After getting banged up like that as a rookie, both mentally and physically, I don't know how you can ever bounce back.

164 I don't if someone already said this bur David Carr got sacked so much because he hung onto the ball way too long. I don't know if he was scared to throw an interception or what but the offensive line did a fair job.

165 But he's not. He's a first-year starter. (I know he was drafted last year, but I really don't think you can learn the quarterback position (or most other positions) by any other method besides playing in real games.)

And who was he supposed to learn from? Kyle Orton. Not exactly a prime mentor.

If pretty spirals led to wins and greatness, then Vinnie Testaverde and Jeff George would be headed for the Hall of Fame, and JaMarcus Russell would be leading the Raiders to a Super Bowl.

The game manager with the good defense worked for Trent Dilfer, it's working now for Alex Smith, worked for Mark Sanchez in the 2009 and 2010 playoffs, and has been working for the Broncos in the last 7 games.

Don't overlook however that Tebow has been more than a game manager in those 4th quarter comebacks and OT wins. He's made big plays with his legs and yes, his rag arm

166

the feeling in Philly about Andy Reid?  Is he still there next year or will he be gone? 

He has 2 years left on his contract, so he'll be there. It will cost the owner north of $20 million to pay off Reid and lure a new coach.

Won't happen.

167 31 The Colts are only one loss away from officially becoming part the French Army.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at December 12, 2011 12:50 PM (qjUnn)

The French Army has more leadership than the Colts Coachs currently show.

168 I do believe the biggest reason Denver is winning is the lack of turnovers. Before Tebow™, opponents were scoring possibly double digit points off turnovers, now they're getting nothing, or very little. I bet if you look at the points per game Denver allowed pre-Tebow and post-tebow, the difference is the points off turnovers.

169

If all the dropped balls Tebow threw were caught instead yesterday he would have finished with a 75% completion ratio and people would have a different take on him today.

No doubt, but that was the bitch of that game. Haney or whatever his suckass failshit name is had some catchable passes dropped too.

Then you gotta start looking at every pass and trying to figgure out which ones weren't catchable but were caught anyway because the reciever saved his ass on a bad throw... it gets too subjective.

It's a team sport and that's part of it.

For whatever reason, the whole offensive line looked like shit 3 quarters and that won't cut it against the Patriots.

170

JaMarcus Russell

Did anyone watch that ESPN report on him last year? Dude was almost 300lbs and his family carried on like he won the lottery before he ever even took an NLF snap.

I'm shocked he isn't in the the NFL. Shocked!

171 >>>If all the dropped balls Tebow threw were caught instead yesterday he would have finished with a 75% completion ratio and people would have a different take on him today. Yeah well the QB has to take some credit or blame for how catchable his balls are. That Demiyarius Thomas drop, for example, was a hard ball to catch. Chris Collinsworth was saying 'You gotta make that catch" but that was not a well-placed ball.

172 BTW, if you don't like ESPN because of its politics, I'm finding the NFL channel's own football-only sports center to be better. I like Merril Hoge and that other white guy (Dilfer?), but I like the NFL channel's Deion Sanders and Michael Irvin.

173 >........but that was not a well-placed ball.


 For being 50 yards downfield with a defender on the receiver's back, it was pretty good, and catchable.

174 Name one playoff-bound team he's beaten...

175

You know what I think is interesting? We've got a team in the NFL that is 13-0 right now, but who's getting all the press? Tim Tebow.

I'm a big Tebow fan for the simple fact that he is fun to watch. Before he started winning games this season, I didn't bother to watch the Broncos. (I'm a Colorado resident but a Packers fan.) Now I tune in just to see if he will pull in another win.

YES, the Denver defense is good and deserves credit, but I agree with the author in the above article ... what good were they doing when Kyle Orton was QB? Besides, the defense doesn't put points on the board (usually), the offense does. You have to give credit where credit is due.

Simple fact is, the Broncos are jazzed up when they weren't before. And it's because of Tim Tebow. He's the Broncos' most valuable advertising tool. People can't stop talking about him, and therefore, the Broncos. They're eclipsing even the Packers in terms of fan interest. What organization wouldn't be happy about that?

176 The Jets?

177 Yeah well the QB has to take some credit or blame for how catchable his balls are. That Demiyarius Thomas drop, for example, was a hard ball to catch. Chris Collinsworth was saying 'You gotta make that catch" but that was not a well-placed ball.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 01:55 PM (nj1bB)

Yeah that one would have been a hard catch but that's why those guys get paid 4 or 5 million a year but take that one away and you still had 6 others where Tebow really fucked up I guesss. He hit them right in the hands.

178

And I'm hoping the Colts go OH-fer so they can share the books with the Lions. The Lions have done a lot of bad things, but it would be nice to see the Colts (a model franchise for years) along side them.

As a Colt's fan my DREAM right now is that they go OH-fer....and pick up a good draft pick. Everyone makes it through the year intact and Peyton doesn't even try to play until next year. At which point the the team under Peyton returns in full force and makes a run for it.

The Colts have a lot of good players in the last few years of a good career. Losing any of them to injuries after the start they have had this season would be a matter of adding insult.

179

Run run run punt.

Run run run punt back.

Run run run punt back again.

Run run run punt back again again.

Run run run field goal miss field goal.

Run run run punt.

180

What organization wouldn't be happy about that?

 

Well, apparently, the Jags.

He was passed over because to draft him would have been all-too-obvious pandering to the hometown crowd.

Jackasses.

When you are facing blackouts every week, we could do with a bit of pandering.

181 Professionals are sort of calm. They've lost before. They've lost heartbreakers before. I don't really understand why/how Tebow's faith would make him both an extreme competitor, to whom winning is important, but also give him solace in a loss.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 01:01 PM (nj1bB)

Ace, you're right. You don't understand Faith.

182

Who cares. He's overhyped. I'm sure he'll be a decent QB, but he's no Peyton Manning.

I've stopped paying attentioned to the most hyped plays since the 2006(or was it 2007 draft).

Do you remember the Reggie Bush sweepstakes? 

That was also the year that Matt Leinhart and Vince Young came out. 

They were all overhyped and they all have had pretty terrible careers. I think Leinhart and Young have been outright busts.

Young has a 31-19 record as an NFL QB. He was rookie of the year and has been to two pro bowls. I hardly think that qualifies as a bust of a career.

He has the most football speed of any human I've ever seen. Some people have great track speed and not so much football speed - he is the opposite. His official 40 yard time was 4.58 - however he was electronically timed in an NFL game  running 46 yards from a standing start on a grass field in 4.60 seconds while wearing pads, carrying a football, and making several cuts.

His biggest problem in the NFL is that QBs in that league are not expected to be play makers; they are expected to get the ball to the play makers.

183
Boy, if P. Manning comes back at full force and the easy schedule they will have, they may make a run for an undefeated season.

184

We've got a team in the NFL that is 13-0 right now, but who's getting all the press?

That's not as much 'news'.

They're going to be 16-0 in 3 weeks and everyone saw it coming. Probably win the superbowl too.

185 The Colts are on the decline. Their defense is terrible except for their ends. Their receivers, outside of Dallas Clark, are overrated. They have no ground game. Their offensive line is very young. That's a lot, even Peyton Manning, to overcome.

186 183 Try again.

187

@96  ...the giants almost had the Packers!

You say that like it would've been a good thing if the Giants had won. 

 I am not amused.

188

I keep hearing rumors that Jeff Fisher might coach the Jags. Apparently, he bought a home in the area a year or so back, so he's already local.

Yep. Within minutes of the Del Rio announcement, speculation was buzzing about him.

He was HATED here as an opposing coach, but would be welcomed with open arms as our own. Still, I wouldn't bat an eye at having Coughlin back here.

189 One thing I coluldn't fit in the tweet Ace quoted was that the goal of most NFL coaches is not winning but not getting fired.

So it's ok to lose so long as it's not thought that the loss is your fault. If you go against the conventional wisdom and lose... that's lethal to your job security.

Hey, you just described perfectly what it is that we do

190 111 86
Who was the QB from Oregon who was drafted by the Lions a few years back.
I remember thinking he was going to be a good QB, but like David Carr, he never had a chance.
Posted by: Ben at December 12, 2011 01:08 PM (wuv1c)

Stafford, their current QB, from Oregon State.

That was Joey Harrington, from Oregon. Stafford is from Georgia.

191

Run, run, PASS.....incomplete, punt.

Not even long runs.

How did Lovey Smith figgure he was going to run out 2 minutes of clock with 3 2-yard up-the-middle runs and a punt?

Does the man understand time? Does he have a watch? Is anyone still looking for a christmas gift for him?

Why do so many NFL offensive lines hate the ball? And hate scoring attempts?

Denver - 4th down and 2, losing by 10 points with 8 minutes in the 4th... PUNT.

WTF?

I'm kind of mad that worked for them. So lucky.

They couldn't have won it all on their own. NOT ENOUGH TIME. The Bears had to give it to them, and did. That's not the best way to win games. They shouldn't have to depend on last-minute turnovers being gifted to them.

192 I don't know, how good can you be if you don't throw? Throw it long!

193

The best game manager is Aaron Rodgers who tells opposing defenses: We WILL score and you WILL like it.

:-)

194 I hope he's successful because of the amount of unwarranted hating he gets. I like a good underdog story as much as anyone, but the bears gave it away. Period. The bears mismanaged the clock starting around 8:45 left in the game. No clock mismanagement, onsides kick gets recovered on other side of 2 minute warning. Game over. Calling off tackle running plays to the short side of the field is dumber than rick lerry dumb. Point out his completion percentage in tebow-time... Fine. But that's because the bears decided stupidly to change to the god-awful prevent d. This is how the bears gave away a game 2 years ago against Atlanta. I thought lovie would have learned a lesson, but he obv did not. Cost us a playoff spot then, and it did again this time. But let's not lose sight of the reality. During this run he's managed come-from-behind wins against mediocre teams, and he looks terrible doing it. I hope he gets better. I think he's a great leader and a terrific role model.

195 I don't if someone already said this bur David Carr got sacked so much because he hung onto the ball way too long. I don't know if he was scared to throw an interception or what but the offensive line did a fair job.

He was paralyzed with fear.

He didn't start that way, he was pretty free wheeling his first year (Texans first year). After years of getting hammered he started locking up in the pocket. The thing he never developed was the ability to see a sack coming and move to avoid it.

196 I'm at the point I wish Tebow would replace friggen Romo.

Much as Tony Romo is knocked, he wasn't on the field to allow the Giants to score 2 td's in the last 3 minutes. If anyone needs a boot up his ass it's Rob Ryan

197
Baltimore hated Dilfer and the Coach believed that getting a productive QB would make them a dynasty. So the ditched Dilfer and ended up with crap for years.

Yeah.

Not buying it. You're forgetting they had to rebuild their D line in the years after that SB win. Siragusa and Sam Adams stayed for one more year, then were gone. It was that stout line that allowed them to not give up much yards to the opposition's running game.

One dimensional teams are much easier to beat, even if your pass defense is ranked 7th...and they were only ranked 7th.

198 In some ways Carr's problem is like a guy who flinches the first time he fires a rifle. The rifle - given the open space -, beats the Hell out of him, and guarantees he will flinch every time he fires it in the future.

Carr feels another sack coming and he flinches - I don't know of a way out of that problem.
 

199 > 126 I gotta tell ya, I thought I was getting on the Denver broncos bandwagon just because they'd be fun to watch. Wide-open crazy option offense! Yay! Posted by: ace They don't use the option most plays and when they do, it's a READ option not they crazy wishbone fling it out 7 yards stuff. Tebow will hand the ball off to the tailback BUT he might pull it back and run with it based on how he READs the defense.

200 Coughlin is either staying with the Giants or retiring.

The game is becoming a young man's game, especially with the success of guys like Tomlin and the Harbaugh brothers.

Coughlin's a damn good coach, but I doubt he'd get hired, either due to his reluctance to coach again or owners being obsessed with younger coaches.

201

Maybe someone has already brought this up.

They said the defense keeps it close so they can have a chance to win at the end.

Maybe it is that they keep it close because they believe Tebow can get them the win in the end.

They believe in him.  Very few first year starters are that fortunate.  I shall sit back and watch him...it is most enjoyable!

202 Dad gum! These Christians just can't get anything right!

203 Sorry, don't really watch football in recent years (used to root for the CHEFS way back when); but this is a fun time to get caught up... just to watch the sportswriters whine & complain.

"DENVER – I believe we have evolved from apes. I believe in dinosaurs. I also believe the earth was created from debris surrounding the sun that clumped together into a spherical shape. And I believe it all happened in more than seven days.
But I also believe in Tim Tebow because there is no scientific explanation for what is happening to the Denver Broncos." - Les Carpenter

"Tim Tebow pulls off his weekly miracle" - LA Times headline

And the endless hate from Bill Maher... how can you not like someone who Maher hates this much for no reason?

204 Tebow reminds me a LOT of Joe Capp. The passes aren't pretty, and they aren't always where they should be. But when the time comes he has no problem tucking that ball away and running.

If Elway DOES work with Tebow during the off-season, then he could be one dangerous QB! I loathed the Gators for years, but had to admire what that young man did on that team. Now he has the chance to do the same in the pros. This Eagles fan is rooting for him!

PS: When we played football in the street, at least once during a game someone would scream "Joe Capp Pass!" And try to hurl an end-over-end pass as far as he could.

205

I can think of more than 1 team that I would like to see the defensive line sent out to move the ball on offense.

Couldn't do any worse.

206

I bet Urlacher throws more yards than Haney.

207 Entropy, Unfortunately, urlacher is their best WR, as evidenced by those two unbelievable picks he had.

208 Archie Manning is another great example of a good QB stuck with crappy receivers and a pasta strainer for an O line.

209 Rick Perry is a hunk...that is all

210

Ace, what constitutes holding in the NFL today?  Offensive line holding is what I refer to.  And I don't ask the question to hear the official, written down somewhere in the League rulebook definition, something which obviously is just there for show.  Because there is no rhyme or reason as to what gets called and what doesn't.  The stripped-shirt guys call what they want to-when they want to.  It's like they are deciding the outcomes of games instead of the players.  It's all a scam.

211 Oh my god the blog meme that will not die. Unreal.

212 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

213 And I was too short to be an NFL quarterback.

214 Oh. And pee on the Bills.

215

 I really think that Elway was half assedly assuming they'd be in the running to get Luck and then he'd get the chance to groom the next Elway for Denver.  Now he's not and he's being pissy about it.

If he actually was making that assumption, it was an asinine one to make.  Back when the season started, Peter King reported that Bill Polian was scouting Andrew Luck, as an aside to a bigger section on worries over Manning's neck.  I saw that and immediately thought, "Oh shit, the Colts are deliberately going to tank the season to draft this kid."  I haven't seen anything so far to believe that my prediction wasn't correct.  Seriously, you lose 1 guy (granted, it's Manning, but still) and the entire team suddenly plays like shit?  If I was a Colts fan, I'd be embarrassed and demand a refund of any tickets I purchased.

216

Here's what the Denver Bronco holder said to kicker Matt Prater just before he kicked the 59 yard FG

Why don't we a-boot it for Tebow?

Why don't we a-boot it for Tebow?

Why don't we boot it for TEBOW OH!

Why don't we boot it for Tebow?

Trolls will still be dogging him

Why don't we boot it for Tebow

 

217
Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

218 Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

219 When Tebow has to pass he is effective. He is - after all, essentially playing against the same guys he played in college. The NFL is loaded with SEC players. What - he could compete with them in college, but not in the pros? Sure the game is faster, but with experience, his clock will catch up. The fact that he can run at anytime will keep the LBs and defensive backs peeking into the backfield, which means his receivers will have more room to operate than most. As long as he is close to on target, he will be able to manage the game. Will he ever be Peyton Manning - no, but he could win as many Super Bowls as Manning and Favre and more than Marino, Romo, Rivers, Tarkington, Jim Kelly, Boomer... Hey, Elway was all that, but never lifted a trophy until TD showed up. Quite frankly, I'd rather have him than half the guys starting in the league today.

220

And the endless hate from Bill Maher... how can you not like someone who Maher hates this much for no reason?

Thanks for making me Google Maher and Tebow - I'd missed the syphillitic troll's commentary on Tebow until now.

I loved reading the lib-blogs that cite how Maher "destroys Tebow and Cain" with his comedic missiles of satiric devasatation.  Then you read what he actually said and it's some sad-ass variation on "Tebow and Cain - they're Christians !  Rednecks like bacon !  I hate Christians !  Rednecks and bacon are teh suk !!!!  Eleventy !!!!!" 

Move over Lenny Bruce, Don Rickles and Sam Kinnison - a new King of Comedy is amongst us.

Nothing Ace hasn't covered before, but just making hateful slurs isn't telling a joke, and it certainly isn't "destroying" anyone.  But then again, on blogs that bill themselves as where "real liberals" find comedy, bagging someone for their religion, or food preferences, is the height of comedy.

Unless you are a Muslim, OFC.

 

221 Thanks for sharing, please keep an update about this info. love to read it more. i like this site too much.

222

Let me see if I can put this whole Tebow thing in perspective:

1. Tebow is not an exceptionally good quarterback.

2. Tebow prays to Jesus.

3. Tebow wins games.

So what was the problem again?