1 Can't we just listen to Erasure and all get along?

2 Ann Coulter has a good article on this Kerfunckle at her site.

3 I'm sick of hearing about this shit. I don't care who's in or who's out--I just want them all to shut the fuck up about it.

4 So first you're all

Chris is a friend and I told him that was a problem.

but then you're

That's part of what has been driving Chris to use inappropriate language.

I'm going to write this up as 'sticking up for a friend', but in any case of unacceptable behavior, you cannot condemn and excuse in the same breath.  Or, as I suspect may be the case, even seem to.  It encourages the error's repetition and damages your own credibility.

IAs you put it, 'that's not supposed to be what we do.'

5 Mmmm, yummy!  Vinegar!

6 There was a GoProud rep (name escapes me) on WMAL this morning with a CPAC rep.  He did very well when quizzed about his and his group's positions.  The knottiest one was gay marriage.  He said the group was favored leaving the decision to individual states.  Given that this is what should have happened with abortion, I think I may be able to agree with him, or at least will take that as a serious position.  Pity this Chris fellow lost it.  Many conservatives will take that as the mask slipping, rather than a temporary and uncharacteristic outburst. 

7 GOProud seems to have continual problems with infiltrators in their midst.  I've heard some representative (whether it's Barron or not I don't know) on Tammy Bruce where he says all the right things to her, knowing that she has little patience with lefties co-opting the homo agenda particularly gay marriage.  Then subsequently I'll read about GOProud celebrating a court victory regarding Prop 8.

8 I am regretting my support of GOProud's inclusion.  There is a lot of  celebrating and trash talking by "players" who haven't even crossed the goal line. But good job on making friends and influencing people.

9 Of course, gay marriage has never been a GOProud "policy position"

10

I was suprised when I read that quote as well. I thought that its not a good way to make inroads or gain trust of conservatives who are leary of your objectives.

Can you blame some conservatives after having to deal with the Log Cabin Republicans who are neither Log Cabins or Republicans?

I hope GOProud doesn't screw up this good opportunity to show that gays can be conservatives too and not just stealth liberals trying to infiltrate the Republican party like the LCRs.

11 That's part of what has been driving Chris to use inappropriate language.

How about accepting that he's probably the wrong person for the role he's in? If he can't let this crap roll of his back and keep a civil tongue, then he shouldn't be in a position to speak for the organization.

12 When I saw that quote I was like "The mask comes off" or "The lib comes out of the closet".

13 How about accepting that he's probably the wrong person for the role he's in? If he can't let this crap roll of his back and keep a civil tongue, then he shouldn't be in a position to speak for the organization.

He is the organization.

14

Of course, gay marriage has never been a GOProud "policy position" (GOProud steers clear of state issues and believes states should be free to chose their own marriage policies).

 They're not for gay marriage, but they are for states deciding.  What do they advocate states should decide? Or do they have no stated opinion on that?

15 Conservatives need to understand that if you're going to work with queens, you're going to expose yourself to the occasional hissy fit. It comes with the terratory and it's not worth getting bent out of shape over. GOProud does good work, even if they're incapable of passing an ideological purity test or throwing a spiral. Leave them - and Britney - alone.

16 Ann Coulter has a good article on this Kerfunckle at her site.

Link? I couldn't find it.

17 Gabe proves P.T. Barnum right - over on Geothermal, they fell for this same line a couple of days ago.   Did you read about the attacks on Demint and Pawlenty?    A pink elephant is just as pink as a pink donkey.

18 Gabe, are you a member of GOProud?

19 The homosexual agenda has no place in the GOP/CON/TEA party.

You want to push it, there's the Democrat party. Knock yourselves out.

20 The homosexual lobby is constantly asserting that Sexual predilections are exactly like race, and should be treated similarly.

This begs the question. If an organization existed to promote the specific agenda of the White race, would CPAC accept such an organization because they agree with our agenda on everything else?

Would CPAC accept GOWHITEPRIDE?

21

Part of what makes conservatives different and better is their ability to forgive and move on.  Al Cardenas needs to accept Baron's apology and look at the big picture.  Baron needs to police himself and get his emotions under control.  This petty shit cannot divide us or it will allow O a second term easily. 

22 You did this to us and that to us and I got mad.  I shouldn't have said anything isn't much of an apology.

23 GOProud can take their .5% of the electorate and shove it. We don't need so-called conservatives projecting their own intolerance and inadequacies onto the rest of us.

24 Chris Barron apparently worked at one time for Planned Parenthood as part of their 'outreach' to the GOP.

Yes, the same Planned Parenthood that tells pimps how to get abortions for their sex workers.

So yeah...I'll just pretty much ignore him.  If GOProud wants to be a conservative organization, he has to go.

25 Link? I couldn't find it.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 11, 2011 09:41 AM (XVaFd) 

Ann Coulter Site as requested

26 I hate identity politics.  Why does there have to be a specific organization for conservatives that prefer to dork each other in the squeakhole?   

27 I'm so sick of this story.  We don't care if you're gay.  If it's more important to have institutionalized acceptance of your lifestyle than preventing this place from turning into the United States of Zimbabwe, vote with the libs.  Otherwise, join us, and keep the insults to yourselves.

28

Coulter's article is good. I don't like her live TV thing, but she is a talented writer. Some people just have a great feel for timing in their writing.

I don't consider myself a social liberal, but I think that some gay people feel confrontational with conservatives because some of the larger social conservative groups bring out leaders who say things like gay sex should be a crime. It is hard to create conditions for dialogue when your feel your opponents want to see you arrested.

No gay marriage, no military nonsense, no special employment rights, but a little respect and self-monitoring from conservatives would go a long way. And of course, a lot of calming down by gay activists would help that as well.

29 To be more inclusive, next year's CPAC will be retitled the 'All Sexual Situations Political Action Conference (ASSPac).'

We look forward to seeing all you ASSPac'ers next year!

30

In addition, Barron has already proved himself to be an ineffective spokesperson who can't help starting fights instead of creating alliances. This organization could do much better Gabe, and it does you a disservice to defend it. You are certainly much better than that.

31 If GOPRoud is serious about getting along with the rest of the conservative movement, Baron has to resign, and a homo more tolerant of family  values conservatives put in his place.

32 I think that some gay people feel confrontational with conservatives because some of the larger social conservative groups bring out leaders who say things like gay sex should be a crime. It is hard to create conditions for dialogue when your feel your opponents want to see you arrested.

Posted by: Paper at February 11, 2011 10:00 AM (VoSja)

I think you're confusing when the MFM trots out marginal dickweeds like Pat Robertson to spout off as if he represents anything significant as far as conservative thought goes.  It's how those fuckheads get to set the narrative and nobody should lose sight of that.

33 I think you're confusing when the MFM trots out marginal dickweeds like Pat Robertson to spout off as if he represents anything significant as far as conservative thought goes.  It's how those fuckheads get to set the narrative and nobody should lose sight of that.

Actually the leaders of several of the boycotting groups, including AFA and FRC, have called for a return to criminal laws against gay sex.

34 I'm sick of hearing about this shit. I don't care who's in or who's out--I just want them all to shut the fuck up about it.

Ugh, no shit.  It's like they have zero ability to grasp the concept that there is more to the world than their sex life.

My brother goes off on me occasionally, vulgar hate-filled rants, because celebrating his ghey is more important than national defense, the economy, the national debt..... Last time I was the "American Taliban"--I'd lol if it wasn't so fucking pathetic--because I saw nothing wrong with Target Stores contributing to the MN gubernatorial candidate who wasn't pledging to tax them into store closings even though he once publicly stated he didn't "believe in" gay marriage.

(Unlike my brother, I'm old enough to remember when gay people thought marriage was something only done by mouth-breathing breeders who were too brainwashed by society to just love whoever they wanted to love without demanding government approval. Heh.)

35 It's just as well.  GOProud doesn't really belong there anywise - not because they're gay, but because they're not conservative.

36 GOProud's contribution to CPAC was Donald friggin' Trump.  Hardly the standard bearer of conservatism. 

And, they won't drop their lawsuit against the government over DADT because they know better than the military about how best to address violations under the old policy. 

So I'm thinking their priorities aren't my priorities.

37 Would CPAC accept GOWHITEPRIDE?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 11, 2011 09:48 AM (/G5LI)

Come on man, race based groups are just wrong.

38

This is exactly the point. Only the gay rights groups and the AFA, FRC groups really know the terms of the debate. Everyone else is tired of all the 'gay' stuff, but they don't realize what is actually said.

I don't think the conservative movement should have the organizations that are supporting marriage, in-wedlock childbearing, and conservative family formation advocating for criminalizing homsexuality. But they do. Most people don't know that, but gay people do.

I believe that supporting a strict and consistent definition of heterosexual marriage is considerably more important than gay marriage, so much so that I don't think it should be considered. Again though, I think there is a place to provide some self-regulation of what 'family values' is associated with. Many of the people in the AFA and FRC are not effective champions of conervatism.

39 It is hard to create conditions for dialogue when your feel your opponents want to see you arrested.

Considering you can get arrest in some first world countries for making "homophobic" comments, I think the opponents of gay marriage actually have more reason to worry about exactly this point...

40 So, since "it's a state matter", the boys are all in favor of DOMA, right, Gabe?

41 Another morning, another Gabe "Oh, look at the SoCon inbred bigots!" comment. Question for you. Have they actually called for a return to the days of criminalizing gay sex? Or have they merely said that they felt that Lawrence v. Texas was wrongly decided? Oh, and by the way, Gabe, I personally think you have no credibility on this issue, so if you make a claim like that, let's see some links, not just a bald assertion that the people who disagree with you are bigot troglodytes.

42 Identifying as a "Gay" conservative is no different from identifying with any other identity group. Conservative thought eschews the concept of identity politics, preferring to be color and gender blind.

 

43 I'm old enough to remember when gay people thought marriage was something only done by mouth-breathing breeders who were too brainwashed by society to just love whoever they wanted to love without demanding government approval. Heh.)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at February 11, 2011 10:11 AM (ElYV9)

I am too.  And we pretty much said "Go for it and leave me the fuck alone"; which wasn't the answer they were looking for and leads us to where we are now.

44 Actually the leaders of several of the boycotting groups, including AFA and FRC, have called for a return to criminal laws against gay sex.

Aren't the fringe groups as far as conservatives go as well?  In fact, I don't even know who AFA is.

45

Check out Althouse's top post today about Canadians and their skeevy effort at blending real Human rights with ludicrous gay identity politics. Here's the header:

 "Any male at any time will be permitted in girls' bathrooms, shoers and change rooms as long as they have an "innate feeling" of being female..."

 

A sneak peek at GOProud's next crusade?

 

46

I am too.  And we pretty much said "Go for it and leave me the fuck alone"; which wasn't the answer they were looking for and leads us to where we are now.

Posted by: Captain Hate at February 11, 2011 10:25 AM (eh+ki)

Ah yes, back in the long ago of 10-20 years ago where the majority of people currently arguing for gay marriage were arguing that gay marriage was some absurd bogeyman of the right that no one would ever advocate for...

47  "Any male at any time will be permitted in girls' bathrooms, shoers and change rooms as long as they have an "innate feeling" of being female..."

I'm a lesbian in a man's body.

48 The GOP is dead anyway....they just don't know it yet.  The RINOs have killed it, which was their goal all along.

Time for a Conservative party, at last.

49 The GOP is dead anyway....they just don't know it yet.  The RINOs have killed it, which was their goal all along.

It isn't dead yet, but this 2 year cycle is make or break time.

50

Scanning Facebook I see that Jim Treacher has a good post about the GOProuders flipping out over phantom offenses while refusing to acknowledge conservatives like Palin and Angle who made real efforts to find common ground with the whackjobs.

51 If GOProud has to apologize for anything, it would be inviting Donald Trump to speak.

52 Aren't the fringe groups as far as conservatives go as well?  In fact, I don't even know who AFA is.

Posted by: Vic at February 11, 2011 10:27 AM (M9Ie6)

Never heard of them either.  I did a quick search and didn't see where they were lobbying for criminalizing homosexuality.  I figured if that were their position, it would be an immediate first-page response.

53

He said the group was favored leaving the decision to individual states. 

So what is their position on Ca Prop 8?

54

 Many conservatives will take that as the mask slipping,

That's because it *is* the mask slipping....

 

55 I think Gabe's caught up in the CPAC group think in which he believes that everything "conservative" revolves around that theater of the macabre wankfest.

56 I was always hoping that conservatives would begin dividing themselves into individual identity groups, just like the liberals. This will end well!

57 I think Gabe's caught up in the CPAC group think in which he believes that everything "conservative" revolves around that theater of the macabre wankfest.

Get a grip. It's in the news right now. Next week something else will and I'll be writing about that instead.

58 My brother goes off on me occasionally, vulgar hate-filled rants, because celebrating his ghey is more important than national defense, the economy, the national debt

Yeah, it's pretty much all about psychological validation.

59  Scanning Facebook I see that Jim Treacher has a good post about the GOProuders flipping out over phantom offenses while refusing to acknowledge conservatives like Palin and Angle who made real efforts to find common ground with the whackjobs.

You fucking idiot. This, THIS THIS is why Chris gets so pissed off. Did you even bother to read that DailyCaller piece?

It is the liberal gay organizations ignoring Palin's and Angle's statements of support. GOProud has praised Palin and Angle for speaking out. Chris is even quoted in the motherfucking piece!

http://is.gd/Em1Zt5

This, lincolntf, is the problem. Either you didn't bother to actually read the article or you did, but didn't care. Then you go on saying things about GOProud that aren't true.

60 Gabe's mood ring just broke

61 How about the Forum for United Domestic Gay Empowerment PAC, or F.U.D.G.E.  PAC?

62 42 Identifying as a "Gay" conservative is no different from identifying with any other identity group. Conservative thought eschews the concept of identity politics, preferring to be color and gender blind.

 

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 11, 2011 10:21 AM (/G5LI)

^^^This.

Identity politics violates a (perhaps THE) fundamental principle of conservatism, and inevitably leads those who practice it to attack conservatives because it is at odds with the foundation of conservatism.

Cleta Mitchell and Jim DeMint are as principled as ANYONE you will ever meet. To attack them as 'bigots' by a supposedly conservative is beyond the pale.

The mask has indeed slipped.

63 I haven't seen anyone attack DeMint on here. Did I miss something?

64

GOProud seems to have continual problems with infiltrators in their midst.  I've heard some representative (whether it's Barron or not I don't know) on Tammy Bruce where he says all the right things to her, knowing that she has little patience with lefties co-opting the homo agenda particularly gay marriage.  Then subsequently I'll read about GOProud celebrating a court victory regarding Prop 8.

I've known about Tammy Bruce for many years and agreed with her philosphy.  If anyone is going to be the face of gay conservatism it would be her and not some Johnny-come-lately who will insult everyone else.

65 Vic,
  it's at the link in the article:
http://metroweekly.com/feature/?ak=5987

After insulting Cleta, he goes after DeMint.

66  Gabe, I scanned the FB post (as I wrote), and now I just read the whole thing. I conflated HRC with GOProud, my bad.

67 What about Barron's job as a lobbyist for PP? You know, our late term abortion/promoting the sexual abuse of minors by their pimps friends? So, is GoProud fighting against the repeal of Prop8? No? Why not? The people voted. Your defense of Barron and GoProud, the Trojan Horse, is a bunch of crap.

68

 Gabe, I scanned the FB post (as I wrote),

Who are these FB people and are they missing an I from the end of their acronym?

/sarc

69 66  Gabe, I scanned the FB post (as I wrote), and now I just read the whole thing. I conflated HRC with GOProud, my bad.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 10:52 AM (xMT+4)

Does that mean you're no longer a "fucking idiot." ?

That was a bit of an overreaction imo. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

70

Is this about right?

1. Gay guy (let's call him Chris...) grows up in an area where people don't take too kindly to the gay. He has some psychological issues because of this.

2. Chris doesn't think this is fair and wants to be in an organization where he can show he is not a bad guy. Note: He can't be all bad if he votes for conservative candidates.

3. Chris leads an organization for gays but does a horrible job because the issues are too emotionally charged for him to be a part of the political process without each gay rights issue being a personal validation or rejection of him as a person. He hasn't developed enough from his past.

I don't think that organizations or people that make comments in support of criminalizing sodomy (for example) help detach the issues from these psychological issues many gay people have that people are out to get them. Likewise, people like Chris have to realize that someone disagreeing with DADT or gay marriage (even at the state level) does not make them some kind of bigot who wants to lynch them.

71 "To his credit, Chris apologized quickly for the slur." It was a typical half ass insincere apology where he blamed others for shooting his mouth off.

72 Here's Barron attacking other conservatives in very personal ways.

The idea that someone who says they believe in limited government would support the government weeding out gay teachers and unmarried sexually active female teachers simply defies logic,” said Christopher R. Barron, Chairman of the GOProud Board. “Jim DeMint is doing his best to make Alvin Greene look sane.”

I understand that Pawlenty is trying hard to get people to pay attention to his campaign. Its certainly a challenge for someone with such little stature in the conservative movement to compete with high profile conservative leaders like Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, etc.

What a nasty little shit. He sounds just like a left winger--all personal attacks all the time.

Plus he worked for the butchers at Planned Parenthood. This is not the kind of person we need in the movement.

Here he is showing off his abs on the internet for some strange reason. Seems like a really mature and stable dude, right?

73

Does that mean you're no longer a "fucking idiot." ?

It better not. I've spent years building my reputation!

74

I've known about Tammy Bruce for many years and agreed with her philosphy.  If anyone is going to be the face of gay conservatism it would be her and not some Johnny-come-lately who will insult everyone else.

Posted by: Decaf at February 11, 2011 10:50 AM (oXMaW)

Obviously I agree with you.  Tammy makes no secret of her sexual orientation but also knows that it's far from the most important issue facing the country; and is quite happy with issues related to it receiving secondary or tertiary concern.  She is also aware that some conservative christians disapprove of the lifestyle while tolerating that it exists; and respects that people have that point of view while not agreeing with it.  She is attending CPAC and I'll be anxious to hear of her comments on her radio show next week or any postings on her website.

75 After insulting Cleta, he goes after DeMint.

Yeah, that is there but it is buried way down in the article. I couldn't find any actual statements by DeMint anywhere though.

76 Gabe,
Isn't identity politics for the left?  The point of GOProud, whether stated or not, is to highlight/advance political ideas important to gays.  If those ideas aren't conservative, then why should we advance them?  If they are conservative, why does the group need a label?

The left has plenty of gay activists and their agenda is, quite frankly, the issue.  If these conservative gays don't want anything but a conservative agenda pushed, there is no need for the label, IMO. 

77 Tammy Bruce is pretty left of center on social issues and on that we don't agree. However, I value her view points and would like to hear her speak. I don't value Barron's.

78 So, is Barron in support of late term butcher abortions for profit? Because that is what PP is all about. That and protecting pimps of young girls. How come no one is pushing that angle? It's like pulling teeth to get people to talk about it or confront Barron with it.

79 Isn't identity politics for the left?  The point of GOProud, whether stated or not, is to highlight/advance political ideas important to gays.

Actually, the point is to get across to brainwashed gays that Republican ideas are good for everyone, including (and perhaps especially) for gay people. It's also to remind Republicans that not all gays are part of the Democratic agenda -- something sorely needed if the number of times GOProud has been slimed as a "stealth-leftist" organization is any indication.

80

"Republican ideas are good for everyone, including (and perhaps especially) for gay people"

But Gabe, many Republicans insist that "nohomo" *is* a Republican idea.  This is a circle that can't be squared.

81 "GOProud has been slimed as a "stealth-leftist" organization is any indication. " Their spokesperson was/is a lobbyist for PP. And no one will address it. That sounds pretty stealth leftist to me.

82 Of course, gay marriage has never been a GOProud "policy position" (GOProud steers clear of state issues and believes states should be free to chose their own marriage policies). This AmSpec writer either doesn't know that, or doesn't care. Her error is a common one for GOProud detractors; not knowing a thing about the organization certainly doesn't stop them from opining. That's part of what has been driving Chris to use inappropriate language.

So it's everyone else's fault poor Chris has been driven to use such language eh?
Gabe you are too much.

Let's put this fraud of GOProud wanting to leave marriage up to the states to bed once and for all. This garbage is based on this goal:

7 – DEFENDING OUR CONSTITUTION – Opposing any anti-gay federal marriage amendment.  Marriage should be a question for the states.  A federal constitutional amendment on marriage would be an unprecedented federal power grab from the states.

See! GOProud is so conservative. They are for federalism and states rights!

Yeah um, one problem. This federalism of theirs is a fraud. The only restriction on the feds they seem concerned with is the ability to keep the definition of marriage to what it has always been.

When Barron went off on Pawlenty recently he suggested  that if he should want to push his SoCon cred  he should show "support for a parents rigths [sic] amendment to protect home-schoolers.". Support an ammendment which takes away rights from the states clearly given to them by the Constitution? Doesn't sound very federalist to me.

So please tell me Gabe how the hell exactly is FMA a "unprecedented federal power grab from the states" and a home schooling ammendment is not?

83 Gee, I wonder why DOMA hasn't been mentioned .. since .. well, I mentioned it ...

84 As far as identity politics being "for the left", there are plenty of traditionally conservative organizations organized around religious identity, most notably organizations like AFA and FRC. Nobody's calling them out for being an identity group, though that's exactly what they are.

85  So it's everyone else's fault poor Chris has been driven to use such language eh?
Gabe you are too much.

Well, that's not what I said, but hey, whatever ya gotta do, Rocks.

86 More on Barron ...


Barron also implemented a GOP lobbying strategy for HIV/AIDS funding, hate crimes legislation, federal employment non-discrimination legislation and legislation repealing the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy


Yeah, we need more federal AIDS funding. Because it's, like, a special disease. One that deserves an inordinate amount of federal funding. And if you get it, you're a big fucking victim. More so than a guy who has a heart attack because he eats at McDonald's too often. No one wants to take up a collection for that guy's bad choices. Yours? Well, those should be subsidized.

Also, hate crimes! Hooray! If you punch my face because I'm gay, you deserve a to be punished more than if you punch my face because you want my wallet. It just makes sense!

As fat as "federal employment non-discrimination legislation, I don't even know what the fuck that is. More regulation and paperwork, I presume. More hassle when trying to get rid of a member of a protected class who decides he doesn't have to work as hard as his coworkers.

And of course, Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Because a gay dude's right to bunk and shower with a heterosexual trump the heterosexual's privacy concerns every time.

87

"Nobody's calling them out for being an identity group"

I think you just did.

That's the point - these two identity groups are incompatible.  The tent can't be stretched big enough for them both to fit.  This marriage can't be saved.

88 So, is Barron in support of late term butcher abortions for profit? Because that is what PP is all about. That and protecting pimps of young girls.

How come no one is pushing that angle?

Dead babies aren't victims, silly. Gay guys who get AIDS are.

Get with the times, bigot.

89

Posted by: Warden

I'm still waiting to see how many of the GOProuders exercise their "essential human liberty" by enlisting in the post-DADT military. I'm guessing the number remains at zero for quite some time.

90 Well, that's not what I said, but hey, whatever ya gotta do, Rocks.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 11, 2011 11:18 AM (XVaFd)

Clearly it is Gabe. What or who exactly drove him to using this language if not everyone else? If someone is driven to something it implies someone is doing the driving, no?

91

It's also to remind Republicans that not all gays are part of the Democratic agenda -- something sorely needed if the number of times GOProud has been slimed as a "stealth-leftist" organization is any indication.

Gabe, we know that, it's GOProud that has not got the message.

92 What about Barron's job as a lobbyist for PP? You know, our late term abortion/promoting the sexual abuse of minors by their pimps friends?

So Gabe, I think this is a point you need to address. Can a PP lobbyist be honestly called a conservative?

93 Yep, people are still going to ignore Barron's lobbying for PP.

94 I'm all for PP providing low cost birth control for women. However, they seem to have considerably branched out into the pimping business.

95 Yep, people are still going to ignore Barron's lobbying for PP.

I wonder if Barron would agree with the conservative position that PP should not receive federal funding?

96 GOPound sand

97 I think Baron's comments, and GOProud's actions have proven that the organization is just a liberal stalking horse whose purpose is to sown dissension and disunity in the conservative movement. I think we need to take a good hard look at who is backing this group  who is defending them, and what their real goal is.

98 I guess the GoProud supporters are refusing to address this bombshell.

99 Actually, the point is to get across to brainwashed gays that Republican ideas are good for everyone, including (and perhaps especially) for gay people. It's also to remind Republicans that not all gays are part of the Democratic agenda -- something sorely needed if the number of times GOProud has been slimed as a "stealth-leftist" organization is any indication.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 11, 2011 11:11 AM (XVaFd)

BTW the way Gabe I do want to thank you for not using the word conservative to describe GOProud. Despite some very neat editing of their goals since late December they still aren't, nor have they ever been, a conservative group. Practically no one, besides Chris Barron, ever considered the Log Cabin  Republicans a conservative group. Since GOProud's mission and goals are virtually the same as LCR's I have no idea why anyone ever suggested they were conservative. Conservatism is more than just a style or an attitude.

100  Yep, people are still going to ignore Barron's lobbying for PP.

I'm also disappointed that Chris would do work for PP. But I'm not surprised by it. Are you really going to pretend to be shocked that someone who is not socially conservative on gay issues isn't socially conservative on life issues either? I mean, yeah, it sucks and he's wrong about abortion, but the faux shock, SHOCK that Chris isn't a social conservative is just absurd.

So Gabe, I think this is a point you need to address. Can a PP lobbyist be honestly called a conservative?

He cannot be a social conservative. Undeniably. But Chris has been a firm promoter of the other branches of conservatism: national security and economic/fiscal conservatism.

Two out of three ain't bad. And it's certainly more than groups like FRC, which are focused on just social conservatism, can claim. In fact, FRC is quite willing to throw conservative values overboard in favor of liberal nanny-statism.

From its issues page:

Family Research Council supports efforts by the Federal Communications Commission to increase the fines and penalties for the broadcast of indecent and profane materials, and FRC believes such restrictions should be applied to cable and satellite transmissions.

Now, there's an argument (a crappy one, but still) that the federal government should be able to regulate broadcast channels because the airwaves are a "shared resource." But there's no conservative case to be made at all that the federal government has the authority to restrict cable and satellite transmissions. In fact, there's a fairly relevant amendment to the Constitution that should end debate on the issue.

101 I mean, yeah, it sucks and he's wrong about abortion, but the faux shock, SHOCK that Chris isn't a social conservative is just absurd.

That's how you are going to answer the charge? That's it?

Barron isn't just an abortion proponent, apparently he's a shill for government funding for an organization that is about as leftwing as one could find. This is seriously a minor issue to you?

Also this doesn't call into question his "economic conservative" credentials?

102 "I mean, yeah, it sucks and he's wrong about abortion, but the faux shock, SHOCK that Chris isn't a social conservative is just absurd." There is no faux shock here. No one knew about his work with PP. And it goes beyond mere support for abortion. He works and advocates for an organization that provides late term abortions. And it has been like pulling teeth to get his supporters to address it when they should be kicking him out the door. It appears so long as someone is gay and claims to be fiscally conservative and pro-defense, not only will you insist that he be included but that he be able to call the shots. No, thanks!

103 DOMA

104 .. and for the ignorant [probably willingly so] there is no such thing as "gay marriage".  If you want to see same-sex pseudo-marriage imposed on the American people, have the courage to say so.

105 Two out of three ain't bad.

Yes it is, when it involves Planned Parenthood.  Does Chris support federal funding for Planned Parenthood?  If he does, he's down to one out of three.

GOProud should ditch this guy, because it's a huge problem if they want to be taken seriously as conservatives by conservatives.

106 Dude, last I checked the plumbing in my shorts hangs down. But your admonition about "not knowing a thing" sure struck home.

107  No one knew about his work with PP.

What do you mean "no one knew"? GayPatriot wrote about it in November 2005. Right there on the internet and everything.

Also, lincolntf, I should take a second and apologize for calling you a "fucking idiot." It's been almost two years of pleading with people to actually find out what GOProud is about before writing/talking about it. It's been a real battle to get folks to even know what it is or what it's policies are (note the AmSpec writer I wrote about in the post had the same problem). So by now when I see comments like yours suggesting the exact opposite of the truth, I have a hair trigger. I don't think you're a fucking idiot. I think you're just like the rest of us: skimming headlines for interesting news while doing a dozen other things too. And I've certainly made (and published to this blog!) snap readings of things that turn out on closer examination to be not true. My apologies.

108 Thanks, and don't sweat it.

109 GOProud should ditch this guy, because it's a huge problem if they want to be taken seriously as conservatives by conservatives.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 11, 2011 11:52 AM (TpXEI)

 

GOProud can no more ditch Barron than the Captain can ditch Tennile. GOProud IS basically Barron and LaSalvia. It was formed by them.

110 GOProud should ditch this guy, because it's a huge problem if they want to be taken seriously as conservatives by conservatives.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at February 11, 2011 11:52 AM (TpXEI)

Indeed. One would think that if the group wishes to argue that it is conservative, but that it disagrees on merely one issue with the conservative mainstream, that they wouldn't pick a spokesman that is apparently outside of the conservative mainstream on a host of additional issues...

111 So, Gabe, your defense of Barron is "well the FRC wants to more heavily fine satellite and cable operators?" That's the WORST thing you can find? 

vs. someone who:  lobbied for a group that
a) Wants federal funding for abortion (so much for fiscal and social conservatism)

b) Is pro-choice, and thus apparently ok with sticking scissors in the back of a baby only moments away from having it's umbilical cord cut.

Yeah, when you stack the two up like that, they don't really seem to compare, do they?

112 "What do you mean "no one knew"? " No one knew. Not everyone reads every gay blog going back 5 years. It was never brought up by gay conservatives that he might be inappropriate for GoProud at CPAC. When it did come out, no one would address it. Your defense of this man is causing you to lose credibility, Malor.

113 a) Wants federal funding for abortion (so much for fiscal and social conservatism)

Actually, its even worse then that...

Conservatives, of all stripes, have two overarching complaints with PP - they receive federal funds AND they routinely use political sway to get away with violating the law.

By lobbying for PP you are openly supporting crony socialism, aka corporatism, of the worst sort.

114 I'm sick of hearing about this shit. I don't care who's in or who's out--I just want them all to shut the fuck up about it.

Posted by: Bugler at February 11, 2011 09:14 AM (VXBR1)

====

Amen.

115

I mean, yeah, it sucks and he's wrong about abortion, but the faux shock, SHOCK that Chris isn't a social conservative is just absurd.

Ehhhhh... I think you're really underplaying this.

Planned Parenthood is part of the left wing machinery. They're no different than ACORN.

You can't separate the machinery from the ideology. If you work for a group like Planned Parenthood, you're advancing the left wing cause. Period.

And I'd like everyone to recognize that being pro-choice is a long way from being pro-late term abortion. Miles away.

Consider:

The International Federation of Planned Parenthood Foundation gave slain late-term abortion practitioner George Tiller its highest award over the weekend. The international abortion business honored Tiller posthumously in Washington months after he was shot and killed in his Kansas church.

Planned Parenthood gave Tiller its Medal of Honor for "outstanding individual contribution to sexual and reproductive health."

Before his death, the state board that monitors doctors was close to revoking TillerÂ’s medical license on allegations that he falsified the age of unborn children before the late-term abortions that took their lives. He allegedly did so to stay within the confines of state law.

Tiller also injured numerous women in botched abortions and was responsible for overseeing another abortion practitioner, LeRoy Carhart, who killed mentally disabled teenager Christin Gilbert in a failed abortion.

This guy was a straight up baby killer and they gave him their "highest award."

And Barron worked for them.

I know you're buddies with him, but that makes him human excrement in my eyes.

A guy like that? He ain't on my team. I don't want to even know him.

116

And I'd like everyone to recognize that being pro-choice is a long way from being pro-late term abortion. Miles away.

Thank you.

117 Miles away? Like how many miles?

The way it appears, there is a brightline in the law between what is considered 'late-term' and what isn't.

Doesn't seem like that brightline is miles away. More like nanoseconds. If I kill the baby at 29 weeks 6 days, 23 hours, and 59.9999 seconds, we're cool. But at 30 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, and .0000 seconds, well that's just not cool at all.

118 This guy was a straight up baby killer and they gave him their "highest award."

Planned Parenthood is a direct descendant of the Progressive Movement's Eugenics arm. Their goal is to minimize the number of "undesirables".

119 As a hater of both the social cons and the gays—when gay signals a political identity, not dudes who like buttfucking and sucking cock, which is cool and looks like fun—I thought it was good when GOProud arrived on the scene. The world needed a conservative alternative to Log Cabin.

Now it needs a conservative alternative to GOProud.

Planned Parenthood is a direct descendant of the Progressive Movement's Eugenics arm. Their goal is to minimize the number of "undesirables".

...a non-racist alternative to GOProud. Good idea.

120

Miles away? Like how many miles?

The way it appears, there is a brightline in the law between what is considered 'late-term' and what isn't.

I'm not talking law. I'm talking mindset.

I'm pro-life, personally. But I can listen to a pro-choice argument see where they're coming from.

In the early stages of a pregnancy, it's easy to see that fetus as something other than a baby, particularly in the abstract (as in, it isn't inside of you) and particularly when you are ignorant of fetal development (it doesn't stay a clump of cells for very long).

But someone who thinks that pulling a late term baby out of a woman and stabbing it in the head with scissors is a-okay because it's still technically in the womb?

Evil.

121 There you have it. This is why I hate these identity groups. Working in government you're stuck with them: Asian, Black, Latino, Gay. There was never any need for these insular organisations. Because of PC and AA, and because most of them were more than qualified for the job on their own merits, they got plum positions. There was no discrimination. Here, it has nothing to do with conservatism or what is or is not appropriate , it's all about one gay guy sticking up for another gay guy solely because he's gay.

122 Can we have a movement to de-politicize marriage, or is that just completely impossible?

Seriously, I'm not saying "social issues off the table," but there are *some* intractable issues we should just not let ourselves get stuck in the mud over.

Doesn't mean never address them, just not destroy ourselves over. If the government doesn't have power over it, there's no point in fighting over it in politics.

Yeah, I know, it's a dumb idea. Never mind, back to the grenade party.

123 "To be more inclusive, next year's CPAC will be retitled the 'All Sexual Situations Political Action Conference (ASSPac).' We look forward to seeing all you ASSPac'ers next year!" Hahahahahaha!

124 122 Can we have a movement to de-politicize marriage, or is that just completely impossible?

Seriously, I'm not saying "social issues off the table," but there are *some* intractable issues we should just not let ourselves get stuck in the mud over.

Doesn't mean never address them, just not destroy ourselves over. If the government doesn't have power over it, there's no point in fighting over it in politics.

Yeah, I know, it's a dumb idea. Never mind, back to the grenade party.

The problem is that the family unit is the basic building block of society. Marriage forms the core of the family.The libs have recognized this, and that is why so many of their programs and policies are aimed at destroying /redefining traditional marriage. Since conservatism is about preserving the American Revolution, it has a vested interest in preserving those institutions that form the society they are trying to defend. 

125  Can we have a movement to de-politicize marriage, or is that just completely impossible?

I'd like to find a way to do that, but unfortunately it's the left that politicizes absolutely everything. Anything that has -- or can be made to have -- laws attached to it becomes political simply because the country won't be of one mind about it and someone can be made to look like a victim of it. And the MBM will enable it.

126 I'm really sick of all this nasty bigot racist name calling shit.  I do not care what you do in private just stop with the bullshit name calling.  It's a BIG turnoff.

127 Respect/Tolerance == two way street.

If you want my tolerance, don't shove your activities in my face constantly and ask for my approval.  Don't throw public and violent tantrums when you don't get your way. Oh, and don't call me, or people that I might tend to agree with, bigots/racists/*phobes.

Then we can talk.

128

Gabriel should issue a clarification. It isn't just the REPORTER who is saying that GOProud backs gay marriage. It is the groups involved, and they are asserting evidence. This from the National Organization for Marriage:

"We went to CPAC last year in good faith, knowing that GOProud was also attending. It was at CPAC we learned from repeated interviews they gave that GOProud leaders favor gay marriage. It's not who people are, it's the positions they take that concern us."

http://nomblog.com/4556/

Does Gabriel want to argue that what should matter isn't what people like his friend Chris really think, so long as they maintain an official position of semi-neutrality? Then he should argue that position, but it's a losing argument.

Should we regard Obama as a true believer in the American system of republican democracy (the system of liberty under law) because his Alinskyite fabian socialism only seeks complete communist totalitarianism in the long run? No. An Alinskyite communist is not part of the liberty-under-law coalition, regardless of what temporizing positions he may take as he implements Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Similarly, those whose long term goal is not just tolerance for homosexuality, but forced approval (in the form of state recognized homosexual marriage), are not part of the conservative coalition.

I consider myself part of that coalition because I believe it IS the liberty-under-law coalition. What else does it mean to be a conservative in the land of liberty than to be a liberty lover? Gay marriage perverts this ideal. Forced approval is the opposite of tolerance. The majority does have legitimate powers to issue approval, but unlike the majority's powers of disapproval, they do not include exceptions for individual rights. There are no rights to approval.

That still leaves the question of equal protection, as in Loving v. Virginia, where the Supreme Court struck down Virginia's ban on interracial marriages. Loving recognized marriage as a fundamental right, which has to be wrong. Rights to approval are fundamentally at odds with rights to tolerance, which our system of individual rights establishes. But the Loving Court was right to say that IF there is going to be a law of approval, it must be applied equally. Gay marriage backers like Olson and Boise use this to argue that under the equal protection clause, anyone must be allowed to marry anyone.

But this argument begs the exact question that Prop. 8 raises, and answers so succinctly: what is marriage? If it is by definition between a man and a woman, then yes, homosexuals have a right to marry (just like interracial couples do), but they can only marry people of the opposite sex. Otherwise it is not marriage.

Olson and Boise are in-effect trying to use the equal protection clause to change the definition of marriage, but changing the definition of marriage is beyond the purview of the equal protection clause. The definition of marriage as between a man and a woman is established by history and religious tradition, things that the equal protection clause cannot affect. The 14th Amendment can only determine that homosexuals have a right to marry people of the opposite sex, just like everyone else.

The same result follows if one accepts the Loving Court's finding that marriage is a fundamental right (wrongly recognizing a right to approval). That still doesn't change the definition of marriage. Again, it just means that homosexuals have an equal right to marry people of the opposite sex.

129 The guy's an asshole, Gabe. IF GOProud is anything other than a one man operation that exists solely for his ego gratification, he will be replaced as leader with someone who gets along better with others.

130 Any self-discriminating group is.

Remember the Log-Cabin Republicans that weren't?

It isn't jumping to conclusions to suspect that a group founded by self descriptors they claim are irrelevant might turn out to be very, very relevant to their actual ideology. 

131

"Of course, gay marriage has never been a GOProud 'policy position' (GOProud steers clear of state issues and believes states should be free to chose their own marriage policies). This AmSpec writer either doesn't know that, or doesn't care. Her error is a common one for GOProud detractors; not knowing a thing about the organization certainly doesn't stop them from opining. That's part of what has been driving Chris to use inappropriate language."

This is such a disingenuous complaint. Of course GOProud is for gay marriage. Chris is just angry that people aren't being cowed by their States Should Be Free To Choose! canard.

132 Gay activists are pretty much leftist activists. Gays aren't enslaved. They aren't segregated. They can vote. They have no problem using their constitutional rights. They are only gay activists if they are pushing for gay marriage and other imaginary entitlements. Otherwise they'd just be conservatives who happen to be gay. And GOProud doesn't seem to be a group of conservatives that happen to be gay. We clearly see a push for special rights for special people. After all, marriage isn't a right. And now we see the classic leftist smear tactics being employed by their head honchos. Gay activists are usually looking for gay marriage and calling it a right. Otherwise they wouldn't be activists. And as we know when a super-minority starts whining about entitlements it only leads to discarding the people's will, the violation of rule of law and in the end big government. Not to mention they want to dilute the waters of traditional marriage making it a meaningless civil contract instead of a foundation of our civilization. That sounds activist and leftist to me. And that's why gay activists groups will always be, at their core, leftist.

133 Well, there goes any tentative support for GOProud I may have had. It's a numbers game, and a waste of time trying to placate less than one percent of the population just so the media will look kindly upon you...because they wouldn't anyway.

I have no interest in attracting gays to the conservative ideology, partially because a conservative social ideology maintains that traditional marriage be kept as just that; tradition...and partially because I have no interest in any specific identity group existing within the conservative tent. I don't want a Conservative Black Caucus, or an Asian PAC, or a gay group that seems more interested in promoting a homosexual agenda than a conservative one.

For the second time, a gay identity group is attempting to hijack conservative ideology by insisting the only policies on the right should be fiscal ones, while clearly stating an opposition to "Don't Ask Don't Tell" and the Defense of Marriage Act (while GOProud weasels its way through the issue of Homosexual Marriage by declaring it should be left to the states, their website clearly states they are against a  Defense of Marriage Ammendment; so they are not necessarily for one thing, but clearly they are against the other...which means they are in favor of Federally Recognized Gay Marriage).

Personally, I'm against the Federal Government being in the marriage business at all. I don't want the Feds to have the ability to declare whether or not I am legally and properly married. Every adult over the age of 18 should be able to claim one person as a "Domestic Partner" be it a spouse, sibling, roommate, boyfriend/girlfriend, or whatever, and then let any who wish to have ceremonies and declare themselves married do so, without the Fed "legitimizing" one relationship over another.

In my book, it's a fair compromise, which means neither side of the issue would be willing to embrace it.

In the meantime, GOProud needs to stop acting like it should be catered to and treated as though they are victims. They are aware of the social side of conservatism, they can either accept it...

...or join the Libertarian Party.

134 Very poorly put apology, if you could call it that.

135
I'm also disappointed that Chris would do work for PP. But I'm not surprised by it. Are you really going to pretend to be shocked that someone who is not socially conservative on gay issues isn't socially conservative on life issues either? I mean, yeah, it sucks and he's wrong about abortion, but the faux shock, SHOCK that Chris isn't a social conservative is just absurd.

Then WTF is he doing at CPAC?!

Good Lord. I thought this was a group that was conservative-but-gay. Instead it turns out to be one guy who's gay, leftist, and apparently intent on carving out space for himself in the coming identity politics war inside the GOP.

136 It's been almost two years of pleading with people to actually find out what GOProud is about before writing/talking about it.

Maybe GOProud should find out what it's about.

Good lord. Supporting the slavers at Planned Parenthood?! That's not conservative, or libertarian. It's fucking evil.

137 It's been a real battle to get folks to even know what it is or what it's policies are (note the AmSpec writer I wrote about in the post had the same problem).

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at February 11, 2011 11:54 AM

I'm late to this but I have to comment.  What is the point of GOProud anyway?  If they are simply espousing and promoting Conservative ideas, why do they need a separate organization to do that?  Organizations that do have separate identities...religious, race, employment, etc. have self-promoting agendas.  So for anyone to say that GOProud isn't promoting their own self-interest is ridiculous.   If they weren't,  there would be no need for their existence.  Of course they are.. they just pretend they aren't.  So take a stand on Gay issues and see if they are accepted by the Conservative community.  If not, find your own niche as so many other organizations have and quit whining.  .  

138 No comments by the co-bloggers or Ace? I feel that GoProud has been shoved down our throats under false pretenses. They won't defend them and they won't condemn them. Again, credibility is in the toilet.

139 Accept his apology?

What apology?

He didn't apologize.

He said he shouldn't have used that language.

He's right he shouldn't have. He should have apologized TO THE OFFENDED PARTY, in person if possible, otherwise directly and not on the interwebs.

But mostly, he's queer, he's here, get used to it.

NOT

140 And speaking of human excrement, would this Barron fellow be more or less acceptable to your run of the mill everyday redneck GOD, guns, and the tenth amendment type yokel than a wannabe terrorist moose-limb?

I only ask because I need y'all's input before I form my own opinions.

141

GOProud is basically three guys sharing an apartment and looking for attention. And they got it. Now all the events at CPAC are being overshadowed by a 3-year old identity politics group with a nonexistant membership slamming actual conservatives while promoting the homosexual agenda.

Fucking wonderful.

142 If your apology paragraph contains more justification than actual apology, it's not really an apology. The ghost of Bill Clinton is alive and well.

143 Gabe, you repeat this claim: "GOProud steers clear of state issues and believes states should be free to chose their own marriage policies"

It's a lie.  You're giving credence to the lie by repeating in the main text of your post. You should fix it.

Why do I say it's a lie? Because states will NOT be free to choose their own marriage policies, if DOMA is repealed. GOProud supports repealing DOMA (it's right there in the MetroWeekly article: "Barron does say, ''Of course, we support the repeal of DOMA'")

Thus, they do NOT want to allow states to choose their own policies. QED.

144

Hell on spell check. Think folks, why are we even at this point with BLAH-BLAH GAYS..BLAH-BLAH GAYS BLAH-BLAH-BLAH.

The AIDS issue back about oh lets just say 1978 just for a date mind ya.

Just after the East Coast West Coast "COMIN OUT" o closet  revolution HONEY!!

Few years later we had Dan White cum Harvey Milk (won't go there)

Then the Reagan years with not a word about (    ) which left a perfect opening for soc/commie groups to insert those ever loving mothers whose sons were coming home to die after being the life of the bath-house cabbose crowd for......what100...200...perfect back door matches per year...not to  mention those loving gauzy shots of poor dying gays with purple potatos growing on their poor dying faces and somewhere someone in the mix decided to co-opt one of the deepest most traditional of AMERICANA the QUILTING BEE and subvert it to a CLARION CALL TO SAVE OUR BACK DOOR MEN? What that was late 80's. KNOW THIS AIDS RESEARCH gets MORE DOUGH THAN most 3 cancer groupings COMBINED. Because they USED MOTHERS instead of the actual Bath-House boys with potato faces to plead their case!

 

THAT IS WHY WE ARE SO FUCKED WITH THIS PROBLEM NOW.

It is because "they" think they are so very special even though they still fuck each other in the butt. Which is biologicaly proven to be an enviormental disaster of known quanities with yet untold....except for the OBVIOUS KNOWN and there I rest my case.

Check-Mate Gabe........I"ll take a retraction 2/13/11  BOLD TYPE

Oh just in case, if you doubt my props, I took care of some of the 1st cases of A I D S back in my NAVY days in the Bay Area back in the day....BACK IN THE DAY Dan White and all the Mayhem that followed..been there ...done that..have the Tee-Shirt

I Know you are all .....mystified

night