March 25, 2011
— DrewM Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen (thanks for the reminder in the comments), Libya and now Syria.
At least 15 people were killed as thousands took to the streets in or made their way to the restive Syrian city of Daraa, where deadly clashes erupted over the last week between protesters and security forces.Sources told CNN the slain people were trying to march to Daraa, where an eyewitness, Abdullah, also reported many casualties in the city.
"Thousands gathered and moved to the governor's building in Daraa and there, they burned a large picture of Bashar al-Assad, and then they toppled statue of Hafez al-Assad in the center of the square," he said, referring to the current president and his late father, the former president.
"After that, armed men came out from the roof of the officers' club in front of the governor's officer and started firing at the crowd," said Abdullah, who asked that his full name not be reported due to security concerns.
It's not just Daraa.
In Hama, hundreds of people were said to have gathered on the city streets to chant "freedom".In 1982, the Syrian army put down an uprising led by the Muslim Brotherhood in Hama. Rights groups believe that tens of thousands of civilians were killed when large parts of the city were destroyed in the military assault.
In Tall, witnesses quoted by the Reuters news agency said about 1,000 people had rallied to show their support for the Deraa protesters, and were chanting slogans denouncing members of the ruling Assad family.
If things get much more intense, I think we'll see just how much the son is really like the father. And then what will the UN, NATO and Obama do? Not much is my guess.
This is one of the problems with the Libyan adventure. In the long run, Libya's not that big of a deal. Yeah, getting Kadaffi would be good on principle (Berlin, Lockerbie) but it's not a game changer in the region. It's also what passes for low hanging fruit in the region.
France and the UK have puffed themselves up into what they conceive of as relevance but going after this 3rd string guy. They'll eventually win (probably), with the US doing the heavy lifting and spend the next decade patting themselves on the back. Meanwhile, Syria and the real root of the problem Iran, will be ignored because it's too hard and too dangerous..."Sure the Iranians have nukes but boy, didn't we kick Gadaffi in the nuts back in they day!"
Oh and not to be left out of all of this...Jordan!
Police forces interferred with water cannons on Friday to stop the clashes between government supporters and pro-reform demonstrators in the Jordanian capital Amman.Government loyalists hurled large stones at demonstrators, injuring more than 100 protesters, Al Arabiya correspondent in Amman said.
About 200 people attacked the sit-in, in which around 2,000 youths from different movements, including the powerful Islamist opposition, took part to call for reforms to the current regime and more efforts to fight corruption.
It's simply amazing what's going on in the Mideast right now.
All I keep thinking about is Teh Fred in The Hunt for Red October, "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."
Posted by: DrewM at
08:24 AM
| Comments (81)
Post contains 572 words, total size 4 kb.
Posted by: nickless at March 25, 2011 08:26 AM (MMC8r)
If things pick up in Syria and they fall, then Lebanon could end up having another revolution. Hezbollah's being supported by Iran from far but Syria from much closer to home.
Losing Assad's support from the eastern boarder would make it harder to suppress the non-Muslims or effectively fight Israel.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at March 25, 2011 08:27 AM (UvFnc)
Posted by: ParisParamus at March 25, 2011 08:30 AM (bN5ZU)
Posted by: Wm T Sherman at March 25, 2011 08:30 AM (w41GQ)
If some of these regimes are overthrown in favor of democracy, I think Bush can take a lot of credit.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 25, 2011 08:30 AM (rbIX/)
Posted by: AE at March 25, 2011 08:32 AM (JO2wS)
Posted by: torabora at March 25, 2011 08:32 AM (Sm5BG)
Fall on the Balance Beam? Lose your Virginity to Your Uncle? Tryst with the Infidel Neighbor Boy?
Don't Worry! You too can Rally for Sharia with one of our Replacement Hymen! 100% Money Back Guarantee 100% Satisfaction Guarantee. Replace that Missing Hymen! We'll Match ANY Advertised Price!!!
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Posted by: Synthetic Hymens For Sale at March 25, 2011 08:34 AM (5ZPyY)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 25, 2011 08:34 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: YRM (Anyone Ever Wonder What Y-R-M Stand For?) at March 25, 2011 08:34 AM (UzBwz)
We can burn ants with it!
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 25, 2011 08:35 AM (rbIX/)
Take one part August 1914, one part 1848, one part 1979, add a dash of general incoherence and what do you get?
The Mayans were on to something.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 25, 2011 08:35 AM (B+qrE)
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 25, 2011 08:35 AM (oSMOM)
As with everything in the ME, that depends on who is orchestrating the protests. A Syrian revolution would depose Assad, but then Syria might become another Islamist state, certainly a Sunni one.
Doubtful Syria will fall though, at least for the moment. Baby Assad's father was more than willing to lay siege to Hama and kill about 20 - 40k people, and Baby Assad may have that same political preservation instinct that his father possessed.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 25, 2011 08:35 AM (9hSKh)
See? A vital industry is born. NOW you can finally get rid of all those annoying fire ants.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 25, 2011 08:35 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: GuyfromNH at March 25, 2011 08:36 AM (kbOju)
Old and busted; Kinetic Warfare
New and shiny; Potential Warfare.
AOSHQ: Come for the smart military blog, stay for the physics nerd jokes.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 25, 2011 08:36 AM (B+qrE)
I still don't understand if all of this is a Black Swan or something more coordinated.
I mean I guess it could be that the protesters saw it work in Tunisia and Egypt and thought "hey we could do that here too" but enough time has passed to see that neither Tunisia nor Egypt are quite working out as awesome as planned. Really neither is Libya.
So, is there really just this amazing groundswell of desire in the ME to overthrow their governments, or is this all part of a larger plan?
Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at March 25, 2011 08:37 AM (RZ8pf)
I'm sorry to be making jokes in this seriousness, but that cracked me up. How many Abdullah's do you think there are there? I'd go with "all of them".
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 25, 2011 08:37 AM (Z1jiu)
in case others haven't heard, this is his direct quote
Frank Lautenberg: “These people don’t deserve the freedoms in the Constitution...but we’ll give it to them anyway.”
These people = you and me.
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at March 25, 2011 08:38 AM (uFokq)
So, is there really just this amazing groundswell of desire in the ME to overthrow their governments, or is this all part of a larger plan?
Yes. Yes. AND the Mayans were on to something.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 25, 2011 08:39 AM (B+qrE)
Posted by: Billy Beer at March 25, 2011 08:40 AM (Zli5c)
No, that's just the ants, trying to get away from my mighty, new Middle Eastern Glass Company super-sized magnifying glass.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 25, 2011 08:40 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 25, 2011 08:40 AM (rbIX/)
Is Syria still run by Urban Meyer Bashir Al-Assad?
Posted by: USS Diversity at March 25, 2011 08:42 AM (gJNMj)
that qualifies for a national "piss on lautenbergs grave" day
Posted by: Berserker at March 25, 2011 08:43 AM (gWHrG)
Posted by: Rocks at March 25, 2011 08:45 AM (Q1lie)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 25, 2011 08:46 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 25, 2011 08:46 AM (hlY6R)
So, is there really just this amazing groundswell of desire in the ME to overthrow their governments, or is this all part of a larger plan?
Yes. Yes. AND the Mayans were on to something.
Read Revelations and Ezekiel as a primer as to what will happen next,
.
In all seriousness, Islamist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood have long-term goals to remake the Islamic Caliphate. They are shockingly detailed and involve undermining countries culturally, along with more overt terrorist actions. This stealth jihad is even affecting us here in America, with groups like CAIR taking advantage of our liberties to perpetuate their stealth jihad.
It could be all this unrest in the sand box is in part due to such groups taking advantage of general civil unrest due to political repression/economic turmoil and American weakness. And the leadership of Iran in particular sees fomenting chaos as a way to bring back the 12th Imam, which is why they cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons.
Or in the end, there will be only chaos.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 25, 2011 08:46 AM (9hSKh)
Posted by: Berserker at March 25, 2011 08:48 AM (gWHrG)
Eh, maybe it's just me.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 25, 2011 08:49 AM (rbIX/)
sand wops? Thats a new one. Does that mean "without peckers"? lol
Posted by: Berserker at March 25, 2011 08:50 AM (gWHrG)
That's another thing. Giffords is back in the news serving as a) a nice distraction from Obama's attack on Libya, and b) as a reminder of right wing hate.
In a couple of weeks, her asshole husband is gonna be launched into orbit to waste millions of our dollars to float around with his thumb in his ass and she might attend the liftoff.
I'll bet my leftnut the media tries to get some more mileage out of their right-wing-violent-rhetoric smear. Meanwhile...Democrats such as Barney the Cocksucker is calling us bigots and Lautenberg is saying we don't deserve rights.
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at March 25, 2011 08:50 AM (uFokq)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 25, 2011 08:51 AM (hlY6R)
Actually, if I were Israel, I would be sending agents around the world to send certain players to hell in a flaming basket.
Oh no you don't.
Posted by: Bracket Hussein Obsama at March 25, 2011 08:52 AM (gJNMj)
I'll be cranking Manowar's "Battle Hymns", followed up by Black wind, fire, and steel.
Posted by: Berserker at March 25, 2011 08:53 AM (gWHrG)
It's important we study the effects of weightlessness on fingers in asses, you anti-science wingnut!
Posted by: Mark Kelly at March 25, 2011 08:54 AM (oSMOM)
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 25, 2011 08:55 AM (XBM1t)
So, is there really just this amazing groundswell of desire in the ME to overthrow their governments, or is this all part of a larger plan?
I've had my suspicions ever since I saw those glossy pictures of "What to wear to a riot" in the Egyptian uprising.
I don't think "they" expected things to get so out of control, though.
It always comes down to those pesky Unintended Consequences, doesn't it? The only benefit is that "Brackets" comes across looking VERY bad on both sides of the aisle.....
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at March 25, 2011 08:57 AM (py9B+)
Posted by: MikeinAmman at March 25, 2011 08:59 AM (elcpe)
From the start, the administration insisted that it was acting to avert the imminent slaughter of civilians in Benghazi and other rebel-held cities, and that the goal of the military operations was clearly spelled out in the United Nations Security Council resolution.
Mr. ObamaÂ’s administration, however, has clearly tried to avoid the debate over a strategy beyond that by shifting the burden of enforcing the United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing force on to France, Britain and other allies, including Arab nations like Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, which on Thursday said that it would contribute warplanes to the effort. In other words, the American exit strategy is not necessarily the coalitionÂ’s exit strategy.
“We didn’t want to get sucked into an operation with uncertainty at the end,” the senior administration official said. “In some ways, how it turns out is not on our shoulders.”
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at March 25, 2011 09:00 AM (UvFnc)
Posted by: "Brackets" Obama at March 25, 2011 09:01 AM (FcR7P)
They have been killing themselves for a thousand years and will continue for another thousand. They hated us before and no matter what we do they will continue to hate us.
I say we let them have at it and get the hell out of their way. I, for one have learned the lessons taught from the past. Fuck 'em.
Posted by: Bosk at March 25, 2011 09:01 AM (pUO5u)
Posted by: ahem at March 25, 2011 09:04 AM (C0w/q)
Posted by: Berserker at March 25, 2011 12:53 PM (gWHrG)
A man after my own heart! Personally I'll be enjoying "Holy War" and "Hail and Kill."
Posted by: Reactionary at March 25, 2011 09:11 AM (xUM1Q)
OT
Morons, take a moment out from your crass to slather a little culture on yer ass.Poetry.
Posted by: maddogg at March 25, 2011 01:04 PM (OlN4e)
----------------------------------------------
Don't know what culture is but I can tell I'm going to like it!
Posted by: Barney Frank at March 25, 2011 09:13 AM (5aWTl)
So - is there an over-under pool set up for how long it will take for the US to get dragged into propping up protesters/rebels in Syria? I'm guessing we'll have committed resources as of day 26. Just enough time for Obama to dither and insure that no good will or lasting benefit of any kind can be salvaged in exchange for the price paid in resources.
Posted by: Reactionary at March 25, 2011 09:13 AM (xUM1Q)
After all the death that little fight (For which we have no iron in the fire over) has caused us, and the toll Islamic theocratic violence has weighed on us, I find myself remarkably apathetic to the idea of an internal Islamic Jihad of Sunni against Shia. Their marked intolerance of *each other* has almost convinced me of two things. That unless ME Islam grows philosophically in a big way that:
1. Long term peaceful coexistence of Christianity (And Judaism) with Islam is an impossibility.
2. Between the Shia and Sunni really, There Can Be Only ONE.
Since the ME Islamic community staunchly refuses to adopt any portion of Western philosophy, grown from our own bouts of intolerance, hatred, and genocide, lessons we payed dearly to record to the history books of Western Civilization, then it becomes obvious they insist on doing it themselves in order to learn. And I look upon my role as a Westerner trying to prevent genocide within Islam not as a voice of reason attempting to preserve sacred life, but as an impediment to growth of a culture through necessary strife.
I'm Catholic, means that at times I'm religiously at odds with other Christian faiths, in particular Evangelical Batists. But I don't worry about them banding together to seize the Vatican, and performing a purge of all Catholics. Because they know where that road leads, and whose errand they are running. So we all stick to peaceful proselytization, the way our savior taught us.
I guess that is a long complicated way of saying. ME Islam, you want to have your little internal hate war of faith? Fine we're tired of sacrificing the lives of our youth stopping you, maybe you'll learn something this time.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at March 25, 2011 09:13 AM (0q2P7)
These are the items that stood out for me:
"uprising led by the Muslim Brotherhood in Hama"
"including the powerful Islamist opposition"
Looks like "never let a good crisis go to waste" is an axiom for other power hungry regimes besides our current US adminisration. The unrest starts with sky-rocketing food prices, then seems to ends up in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood in a lot of the listed scenarios. Funny, that.
Posted by: Croaker at March 25, 2011 09:21 AM (IbwQw)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 25, 2011 12:37 PM (Z1jiu)
Abd: slave (or black person in Arabic)
d'ullah: of Allah
You can learn a lot about Arabs and Islam (Islam being the ultimate vehicle for Arab and Arabic supremacism) by learning what the various names mean.
There are only so many accepted Muslim names. Osama is lion for example. They don't consider themselves sheep, ever.
Posted by: Beagle at March 25, 2011 09:31 AM (sOtz/)
"It's already out of control. The long standing Cold War between Shia and Sunni is about to get hot. If the Shia get control of Mecca there will be a global Muslim war."
See your doctor for an erection lasting more than 4 years.
Posted by: Sharkman at March 25, 2011 09:46 AM (Orc9J)
Posted by: bigred at March 25, 2011 10:12 AM (WaOfA)
The long standing Cold War between Shia and Sunni is about to get hot. If the Shia get control of Mecca there will be a global Muslim war.
What's happening now goes a bit beyond that, although that is contained in the larger picture.
Syria has been bubbling under the surface for a very long time -- the reign of the Assad's has been notably heavy handed towards the Syrian people (which is pretty typical for the region). In that regard the protests are about getting a more democratic government, and wanting a better living standard. However, you are dealing with people who wouldn't know what democracy, freedom, and a more open society was if it came up and smacked them in the face (they see, and want, things on tv or the internet, but they have little understanding of the society/culture behind the ohh shiny). Enter the Islamists with a really sweet deal...which they will jump on, because they believe that they will get harmony, peace...and lots of shiney and also some sort of belonging to a group, some Muslim pride if you will. It's wishful thinking, of course, but lots of people have fallen victim to con jobs involving all their wildest dreams coming true. It also involves scapegoating (whether Jews, Westerners, or other Islamic sects) -- because that too is part of the wish fulfillment fantasy...revenge and transferrence of responsibility is not germaine to the ME or Muslims either.
The Islamists will try to overthrow the dictators...and then the movement will try to consolidate the warring factions of Islam...and then the jihad begins in earnest for us.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 25, 2011 10:47 AM (5/yRG)
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fuck 'em all
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at March 25, 2011 08:24 AM (uFokq)