1 Folks keep asking if there was a communication breakdown between Speaker Boehner and Minority Leader McConnell.

What's with all the surprise and confusion?  Boner and Bitch McConnell are just doing the same sorts of f#ck-ups as they did for all of the budget/continuing resolution negotiations.  They shit the bed several times on that (actually, they shit the base, which is what the GOP leadershit lives for) and have just repeated their retarded performances for this fiasco.  Nothing new.  Stop acting as if you didn't expect this screw-up from the screw-ups.  They are maintaining consistency in their ineptitude and stupidity.

Boner and Bitch communicated fine.  It was the base of the party ... the main bloc of votes that was never determined by either of the two dipshits.

2 We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory (once again) and now it's an utter disaster.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 07:39 AM     Well said.  This kind of tactical incompetence, this futile and faltering self-destructive tribute to a poorly understood principle, is killing our side.  This general level of amateurishness has been the bane of the Right for years.  Will they ever stop beclowning themselves?   The very idea that this has to be "paid for" is absurd.  All tax cuts are paid for, either through the economic growth they bring about when you're past the peak of the Laffer Curve, or through eventual inflation if deficit spending is too high.  Right now only a fool thinks we're under taxed.  Most of these dollars not being taxed away into oblivion are either being spent, or are being used to pay down debt.  The economy desperately needs both of those things.       

3 I know that sometime between now and Nov 2012, we're gonna get some good news. right?

4

The GOP has managed to shoot itself in the foot again?  I should buy stock in companies that make popcorn.

5 The thing that annoys me the most about all this is that it is, and always was, a temporary tax abatement.  At some point in the future, it will disappear and taxes will go back up again.  The point when that happens is just being pushed further away.  Somehow, the R's has painted themselves into a corner.

6 can the rank and file in the house hold a no confidence vote on their own leadership?

7 Going to conference with the Senate is not a 'gimmick'.  It's actually what the Constitution allows for.  I don't understand why the Senate's bill has to get an up-or-down vote from the House or else the rank and file are crazy right-wingers.

And let's remember that the two biggest GOP disasters of the year - the budget and the debt ceiling - were the result of 'realist' wish-casting on future electoral gain, not some commitment to purity.

The common thread through all of this is that Boehner sucks.  He shouldn't have agreed to the deal, and he shouldn't have pissed away all his credibility with the rank and file by refusing to challenge Barry earlier.  Now the rank and file have revolted and he looks like a spineless crying drunk.

And I have to imagine that in March, no one will give a shit about this.  What will be more important to everybody is what our presidential candidate says that week.  Just like how we were all assured the Super Committee had guaranteed us victory in 2012 (and it didn't, and now 'realists' are struggling hard to pretend it never existed and they never said that).  No one's gonna care.

8

This is wonk shit.  Nobody's going to care in two months. 

OTOH.... the real screw up here is not demagoguing the destruction of Social Security at the hands of Obama.  He took out Medicare with Obamacare, and now he's going after your SS.

 

He should be hung by the chimney with care, because he wants old people out in the cold, eating dog food, and dead.

 

If they really cared about winning and not managing expectations, they would be going for his throat.  Damn whatever they did before.  They should be going for his throat now even if it means a 180 degree reversal on previous policy.

9  This general level of amateurishness has been the bane of the Right for years.

No it hasn't.  The bane of the right is that it latches on to deals which are shit in the hopes of securing electoral victory.  It never does, and all that's left are shitty bills.

The Super Committee was some kind of purity thing?  Really?

10

@Anna Puma:  I love your website.  But I always forget to bookmark it.

Or maybe I do bookmark it, and then I un-bookmark it for some reason.  I don't know.  But I bookmarked it again.

11 >> Going to conference with the Senate is not a 'gimmick'.  It's actually what the Constitution allows for.  I don't understand why the Senate's bill has to get an up-or-down vote from the House or else the rank and file are crazy right-wingers. Because it looks bad so Obama will be able to criticize us for it but if we didn't do this then he totally wouldn't criticize us. Or something.

12 Damned if we do damned if we don't...

13 3 I know that sometime between now and Nov 2012, we're gonna get some good news. right? Posted by: nevergiveup at December 22, 2011 07:49 AM (i6RpT) I'm ahead in the polls!

14 There is no "conservative principle" at work here.

My understanding is there is a pile of shit in that Senate Bill that needs to come out.

15 That thing about Boehner not knowing or caring what the caucus thought is right on, though. And from the looks of things, the caucus has had about enough of that.

16 can the rank and file in the house hold a no confidence vote on their own leadership?

Posted by: Bannor at December 22, 2011 07:50 AM (6AXh/)

That's the only sort of no-confidence vote that makes any sense in our Congress.  No-confidence votes on anything for the Executive branch are totally meaningless in our system.  Dems do them because they don't know the differences between the American system and the Euro-parliamentary shit systems.  The GOP pulled one with Holder because they're scared to do anything that has actual meaning and would hold any of Barky's treasonous crew to account.

17

#10 Truman North. 

Thank you for the kind words.  Merry Christmas/Bouno Natal.

I need to do a follow up on Wukan.  Wonder if the PRC police are now busy guarding the border with North Korea and not Wukan.

 

18 What poison did the senate bill contain?

19 And the Repubs aren't handing him a Christmas present, The MFM is.  If they had caved in the MFM would have trumpeted it as a great triumph for Obama.

It doesn't matter what Republicans do the press will kill them and praise the Dems, so they may as well go for broke.

And PISS on the Rove wing.

20 Nothingburgers for breakfast again?

21 I think freshman, not wanting to be called RINOs, sellouts, and worse etc by folks like us, are at the root of this. 

22 I guess the Senate runs things. That whole 'spending bills MUST originate in the House' thing really doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Reid has shown that to be true before. Yep, take it or leave it we are goin' to Sizzler, be back in late January.
 
As a procedural issue, there was a vote on this Senate bill to send it to conference. That vote passed with  230 ayes. It was a party line vote for the most part.
 
I suppose you are mostly right Gabe in that it wasn't real smart politics by the House. And it sounds like the House will have to crawfish. But this does send another message to the base -- that they can stand up to being steamrolled, at least for a while.

23 I have been absent for some time, but now I remember why I used to love this website. Thanks , I will try and check back more frequently. How frequently you update your web site?

24

Too tough on the GOP house Gabe, IMO.  They are fighting  between the 2010 class of true tea-party conservatives, with older get-a-long GOP who are more inclined to eat shit sandwiches.  Too, the Senate is a mess, BUT look..

Too many regular voters don't know the democrats controlled the Congress after 2006 election, and don't know the Donks have effectively controlled the Senate since what, WWII?  ( GOP may have gained control for awhile, but have not had 60+ like the donks have ).

Most MSM watchers and independents probably think the GOP controls the Congress or will believe so if asked.  Most would probably believe their taxes went up if the MSM said so EVEN if in reality they were cut by the GOP. 

IT DOESN"T MATTER the way it looks.....   the Donks and the MSM will LIE and mischaracterize the GOP position regarless...  

25

... regardless...   sorry..  I hate teh typos

heh... 

26 No it hasn't. The bane of the right is that it latches on to deals which are shit in the hopes of securing electoral victory. It never does, and all that's left are shitty bills.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 22, 2011 07:53 AM (FkKjr)

 

There is no disputing this as a serious component of the overall picture of failure.  But I think it's clear that there was, in this case, a tolerable deal on the table, not worth expending political capital to fight against.  It's symptomatic of their tendency to pick the wrong time to fight, or to fight for the wrong objective.  That is, when they really bother to fight at all.  They've seemed lost since the end of the Contract With America, which was their last win not produced by errors on the part of the Dems. 

We can't go tilting at windmills until Obie's out.  Until then, placate the masses.  The GOP has learned nothing from Clinton and Obastard.  The best time to do all the things people will hate, like implement austerity budgets or raise taxes or whatever, is right after you've been elected and hold real power.  That gives them time to get used to it before the next election.

27 well-said Yip

28 Don't forget to say thank you to all those freshmen wingnuts you folks elected last year, cause they're the ones killing deals.

29 aww, everyone's plum wore out. I know I am, and all I do is surf the nets, and sleep and stuff.  Congressmen are people too!!!!!!11

30 RECAP: Holding the line on raising the debt ceiling by another $1.2 Trillion - BAD Passing a do-nothing, net-negative 2-week payroll tax holiday - GOOD Just trying to keep my concepts of fiscal conservatism straight. Because to the untrained eye, it looks fucking retarded.

31 What the House really needs to do is what they promised during the 2010 election. That and get rid of cryin Boner as SOH.

32 Oh look, Gab is buying into the MSM's narrative again.

Regardless, the GOP shouldn't mess with their core brand identity of "Republicans cut taxes."  I doubt inside baseball crap in the middle of the holidays, which no one will remember eleven months from now, is going to make a lick of difference in deciding the party's nominee or who wins the election.

33 Esscuse me - 8 week payroll tax holiday.

34 Jimmy Carter sent condolences to the North Korean Dear leaders family? Class all the way

35 And shit seems to be falling apart in Iraq as soon as we left. Gee what a shocka

36 It's all about breaking the Tea Party Caucus, Gabe, and it was orchestrated by both Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid (thus proving that, even if bo some miracle the GOP got the Senate, Reid would still be running it).

37 How do you spell failure and disaster in Iraq?: o b a m a

38 Maybe if we stopped eating our own and refrained from the constant criticism the "public" would see the House decision differently. It's bad enough that the media is on the constant attack, but "we" join in too.Ever notice that no matter  what the Democrats   propose  they all stick together?Maybe we should try that for a change.

  I mean "we" in the larger sense not "we" morons/ettes

39 "by some chance", even.

40 Report: Saudi textbooks teach annihilation of Jews State-funded books in Saudi Arabia continue to teach kids that 'hour (of judgment) won't come until Muslims fight Jews and kill them,' Fox News reports Yeah but those Jewish bathrooms on the West Bank are the real problem hey?

41 And if the number of people out of work is still above 20% in the fall, none of this will matter. We need to stop fighting over crumbs.

42 We can't go tilting at windmills until Obie's out.  Until then, placate the masses.  The GOP has learned nothing from Clinton and Obastard.  The best time to do all the things people will hate, like implement austerity budgets or raise taxes or whatever, is right after you've been elected and hold real power.  That gives them time to get used to it before the next election.

CLEARLY a Rino.  Probably likes Rove too (snort of derision and contempt)

43 Gabe thanks for the movie review of Shot Through The Fucking Foot Again, The Story of the Stupid GOP Right Wing Amateurs.

But as much as I thinking Weeping Boner needs to go, the problem is in the Senate and their 6 year terms. While that may have seemed like an ingenious idea to the founders, the effects of the 17th amendment and the insular corrupting cover that it would generate and nurture were not anticipated.
Filthy elitist scumbags like Kerry, Schumer, Reid and yeah McConnell and Hatch and the Maine Twins etc. are really fouling things up while enhancing their own power and lifestyles.

The people with only 2 year terms in The House are consequently and rightfully engaged.

I would also agree with those that say that much of this is inside baseball wonkyness that gives credit to nuance that at least 52% of the voters are incapable of.
If we can't get past the fact that a near majority of living (and dead) citizens are useful idiots, blame the MFM and taxpayer funded Pubic Education, not The Tea Party.   

44 There are no permanent tax cuts, ever, because no Congress is bound by legislation passed by a preceding Congress.
There might be tax holidays.

45 There is no disputing this as a serious component of the overall picture of failure.  But I think it's clear that there was, in this case, a tolerable deal on the table, not worth expending political capital to fight against.  It's symptomatic of their tendency to pick the wrong time to fight, or to fight for the wrong objective. 

Thing is, we were told that the last two times were the wrong time to fight.

The problem with the party is one entire wing (unfortunately in leadership) doesn't want to fight.

And let's be clear - going to conference isn't fighting.  It's going to conference.

We can't go tilting at windmills until Obie's out.  Until then, placate the masses. 

And if Obie wins after we placate the masses, we wear sackcloth and wish we had done more.  Like we do about the period from 2000 to 2008, when the GOP controlled all three houses but 'wisely' chose to placate the masses to keep their victories intact.

46

There is just no cure for stupid. What the House Republicans should do is present a budget that cuts spending like crazy and then see how the Democrats respond to that. How hard is it to go on the offensive and let the Democrats expose their core beliefs?

I know that I could do better than all these idiots, and I am sure that the same could be said for 99% of the people that post here. But you know what? I have a real job where I actually accomplish something.

47 Like we do about the period from 2000 to 2008, when the GOP controlled all three houses but 'wisely' chose to placate the masses to keep their victories intact.

So you simply ignore all questions of political timing and become the bull in the china shop?  I don't defend Hastert and Frist; I didn't like them when they were in charge.  But that doesn't mean you get stupid about the political realities.  If you do, you play right into the Dems hands.  I'd rather not do that.

48 when the GOP controlled all three houses

Hey moron, the GOP controlled both houses and the presidency.

49

You're just like some of those get-along Republicans in Congress. Always worried about what the MSM will think of us and always afraid the precious independents will be turned off by us. Always accepting false premises (read 'lies') from the Democrats and always on the defensive. Unfortunately, Boehner and the House leadership don't have the balls to expose this pile of shit for what it really is. It's nothing more than a political game (the latest in a series) while our country continues down the shitter.

 

First, as has already been stated, this is in no way a "tax cut". It's a raiding of the SS coffers. And yes, I wish they had not voted for it to begin with. When Democrats raid the coffers, they're offering the middle class a "tax cut". When Republicans suggest revamping SS to keep us from going bankrupt and allow us the freedom to do what WE want with OUR money, they want Grandma to eat dog food.

 

Second, it couldn't even be implemented in 2 months. The payroll system would have to be reprogrammed and it has been stated multiple times that most businesses could not implement it and even when they do, it will be at a cost.

 

Third, this "tax cut" that will "put more money in the pockets of the middle class" is around $1000 as most of us know. That's for the ENTIRE YEAR, which is what the House passed in the first place. So, that's about $20 a week. Oh yay, now I can get that mansion in Beverly Hills. Thanks, Democrats, you tax cutters, you!

 

And finally, let's not forget the new mortgage fees that have been attached to the Senate version that will "pay for" the "tax cut". I'll bet my left nut that there's nothing temporary about that.

 

I'm frankly tired of one "crisis" after another that has to be resolved at the last minute and we must go along with more spending or the media and the independents will hate us. How has going along worked out for us so far? Enough is enough. I applaud the caucus. Even though I'm not convinced they won't cave...

50 What EV said x10

51 Our republic, in its current form, is not worth perpetuating. Let it burn.

52 So you simply ignore all questions of political timing and become the bull in the china shop?

Yes, I ignore your political instincts.  Because the truth is, political instincts are close to worthless.  Nobody correctly predicts what is going to happen, and if they get it 'right' it's a fluke they can't repeat.

The truth is people are damned unpredictable.  All you have is what they've done in the past to roughly guide you.  And so this could be a disaster.  Or it may not matter.  The GOP has doggedly pursued the 'political reality' approach.  All it's gotten us is a country in massive debt.

It seems to me a better approach is to look objectively at bills and determine whether or not you support them, because you don't know what the hell the future holds.

53 It beats the shit out of me why some people continue to think we can placate the press by going along to get along.

It does not matter what we do, we will NEVER have the press on out side, NEVER.

54 Well I don't think Boehner is as stupid/incompetent as Gabe makes him out to be, nor do I think he is some sort of RINO sellout like the purity warriors here want to cast him as.  I think a more likely scenario is that the Senate reconvenes next January, they hold their conference committee, and then they agree to a tax holiday retroactive to the start of the year.  The idea that we absolutely MUST act RIGHT NOW is a sort of fiction, I think.

I also think that the purity warriors among us do have to realize that when you stand on principle and refuse to budge, that sometimes you lose and you do get blamed for the loss.  That is a consequence of refusing to negotiate and/or "surrender".  So if taxes do end up going up because the House refuses to budge one iota, they may win praise from us, but they will not win it from everyone else.

55 When the media calls me a racist, I become racist. I never gave racism much thought until the media let me know that that's the reason I oppose Obama at every turn. So when the call me a racist, I get more racist. I suppose I could whine and say "I'm not a racist, really. Like me, please." But I prefer, "Fuck you. OK, I am racist against anyone who calls me a racist. Fuck you and fuck your racist race card too. Either way, your black president is fucking up this country, so fuck you." I get the same result, but I feel way better. Who's to say that Obama didn't tell Boehner to hold out because he's having such a nice Christmas season with Michelle's fat, gelatinous, dimply, cottage-cheesy, burrito-stained ass 6k miles away? I'm also a weightist too.

56 I also think that the purity warriors among us do have to realize that when you stand on principle and refuse to budge, that sometimes you lose and you do get blamed for the loss.

Show us an example of when the GOP's purity warriors caused a loss in Congress.  Because I can show lots of examples of when the GOP's 'reality' faction screwed us terribly.

57 Everything that guy just said was bull shit

58 Why don't they just take the Senate bill and change where it says "(2) in the case of the taxes described in sub-section (a)(2), the period beginning January 1, 2011, and ending February 29, 2012." and change February 29 to December 31. Don't change anything else about the Senate bill, pass it and send it back to that ass-wipe Reid.

59 Because the truth is, political instincts are close to worthless.  Nobody correctly predicts what is going to happen, and if they get it 'right' it's a fluke they can't repeat.

That's one way to go.  It's Ron Paul's way, but it is a way (I keed).

Look, nobody says that we should simply rely on political instinct and a finger in the wind to determine policy.  However, simply saying "no, thanks, I'm pure as the snow" isn't realistic either.  You pick you battles, and that has to to be based, in part, on political calculation. 

60 You pick you battles, and that has to to be based, in part, on political calculation.

Many (most) of the complaints I see about the GOP leadership confuse them doing the political calculations badly, rather than that they do them at all.

61 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 22, 2011 08:51 AM (FkKjr)

Well I would point to the government shutdown of 95-96 for instance.  Newt held out too long until all support had eroded from him, then he had no choice but to cave.

But I am speaking more in the hypothetical sense.  I don't think things have gotten to the point of Republicans losing when they were in charge, because we DON'T have purity warriors in charge much to the consternation of the purity warriors here.

To be in leadership in Congress pretty much necessitates that one HAS to be willing to make compromises.

62 What the House really needs to do is what they promised during the 2010 election. That and get rid of cryin Boner as SOH.
Posted by: Vic
.....
You keep forgetting they cannot do it by themselves, Vic.  They have a Dem Senate and Prez.  They passed a lot of bills.. even a budget.. they all have gone into Harry Reid's wastebasket.

63 And finally, let's not forget the new mortgage fees that have been attached to the Senate version that will "pay for" the "tax cut". I'll bet my left nut that there's nothing temporary about that.
Posted by: EV at December 22, 2011 08:39 AM (cqZXM)
This another redistributionist gem courtesy of Hairy, Bitch, and Boner.  The regressive FICA Tax is "eliminated" (never to return unless the Repubs ever have the balls to be called meanies by the MFM) even though it it supposed to be your "insurance" contribution for future benefits.  Those with enough capitol (or chutzpah) to get a mortgage will be taxed via a "fee" based invisible tax.
Win-Win for Team Obama!
Lose-Lose for Team Stupid.

64 Well I would point to the government shutdown of 95-96 for instance.  Newt held out too long until all support had eroded from him, then he had no choice but to cave.

And I'll give you an example from the other side: Obamacare.  The true believers wanted it so badly that they ignored the political realities, figuring that if they wanted it badly enough, the country would come around.  It didn't, and the result was that Nancy has to fly coach now.

65

>> Because it looks bad so Obama will be able to criticize us for it but if we didn't do this then he totally wouldn't criticize us. Or something.

He's going to criticize us for something about it anyway so who cares.  If the masses are so stupid as to continually try to kick the football from Lucy while she snatches it away, then they deserve what happens to them.  Unfortunately for us, we're collateral damage.  But you can't fix stupid.

The Repubs should have opposed it from the start, not tried to find ways to "pay" for it, because when you're running a deficit, you aren't paying for it, you're just shifting money between buckets and the deficit stays the same.  They should have opposed it from the start and blamed Obama for trying to destroy Social Security.

66 That's one way to go.  It's Ron Paul's way, but it is a way (I keed).

Ron Paul is one of the only congressmen anybody can name.  The reason he's a failure isn't because he's 'pure'.  It's because he hates Israel and wouldn't violate Pakistan's sovereignty to kill Bin Laden.

However, simply saying "no, thanks, I'm pure as the snow" isn't realistic either.

Challenging Democrats isn't being pure as the snow.  It's challenging them.  We currently don't do that.  The GOP does not behave aggressively in negotiations.  It doesn't try to maximize it's gain in policy.  It tries to maximize it's gain in future electoral victory by minimizing bad press.

67 Hold firm and pass a 12-month extension with a rebate for the past 2 months. Wonk stuff. Nobody cares except CNN. The only tax plan anybody will care about is the new president's. But the question we should be asking is why the president wants to bankrupt social security and Medicare.

68 D R Y P O W D E R A taut political thriller by Gabriel Malor, author of the bestselling book N O T T H I S H I L L

69 Compromises while sliding off a cliff are not strategy, just a faulty reflex.

70 Doing the right thing based on principles does not mean there will be no cost.

71 It tries to maximize it's gain in future electoral victory by minimizing bad press.

Given that its future electoral victory in '12 is going to determine the direction of the country, I'm willing to take that deal.

72 And I'll give you an example from the other side: Obamacare.  The true believers wanted it so badly that they ignored the political realities, figuring that if they wanted it badly enough, the country would come around.  It didn't, and the result was that Nancy has to fly coach now.

The Democrats won the policy battle decisively, and may very well have this program as a permanent part of America now.  We are currently scrambling to get rid of it and may fail.

So I think it's an example of how purity can lead to getting policy victories.

73
Given that its future electoral victory in '12 is going to determine the direction of the country, I'm willing to take that deal.

Posted by: pep at December 22, 2011 09:02 AM (6TB1Z)

'12 will be important, right up until January of '13.  Then '14 will be what determines the direction of the country.  Then '16.

It never changes.

74 69 Compromises while sliding off a cliff are not strategy, just a faulty reflex.

Refusing to acknowledge the impending cliff is unwise.

75 It never changes.

If I thought that, I wouldn't waste my time following politics.

76 The Democrats won the policy battle decisively, and may very well have this program as a permanent part of America now.  We are currently scrambling to get rid of it and may fail.

So I think it's an example of how purity can lead to getting policy victories.

Again, we differ.  I think OCare will be gotten rid of, and there are multiple routes by which that can be accomplished.  The Dems will be sent into the political wilderness, and the notion of a government-run healthcare system will be radioactive for the foreseeable future. 

77 Compromises while sliding off a cliff are not strategy, just a faulty reflex. Refusing to acknowledge the impending cliff is unwise.<<< How George Lucas would have written the witty banter between Han Solo and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

78 Compromises while sliding off a cliff are not strategy, just a faulty reflex. you pathetic POS.

Refusing to acknowledge the impending cliff is unwise because I have a large penis<<<

How George Lucas Empire of Jeff would have written the witty banter between Han Solo and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

79
>>Refusing to acknowledge the impending cliff is unwise.

_{The Hekawis were a lost but cheerful tribe.}

80 You keep forgetting they cannot do it by themselves, Vic.  They have a Dem Senate and Prez.  They passed a lot of bills.. even a budget.. they all have gone into Harry Reid's wastebasket.

And you keep forgetting what they ran on. Infdividual budget allocation bills that would be take it or leave it. Anf if you leave it you get nothing for that department.

And yes they do have that power, they just have to have the balls to do it.

Crying Boner has none. He folded like a cheap suit on the first budget battle.

81 @ 79 That's actually better than I would have written it.

82 I am GD sick of that word "purity". It is absolute bull shit. The only purity warriors we have here now are the Romneybots and the Paulclowns.

The rest of us has a few principles.

83 The only thing go-along to get-along has got us is a bankrupt country about to collapse. It is time to die on a GD hill NOW before you are all converted to long pig. 

84 If I thought that, I wouldn't waste my time following politics.

Posted by: pep at December 22, 2011 09:05 AM (6TB1Z)

Or, you'd advocate changing the system.  It doesn't have to be this way.  It's just the way the GOP operates.

85

Oh yeah, Gabe recycling inside the beltway conventional wisdom!

 

 

86
>>The rest of us has a few principles.

I has a few principles:
Me, mine, a few guns, a shovel and a lot of remote landscape.

87 83 I am GD sick of that word "purity". It is absolute bull shit. The only purity warriors we have here now are the Romneybots and the Paulclowns.

The rest of us has a few principles.

So, your method for getting people to stop using a word you dislike is to call them childish names and accuse them of having no principles?  I'll make you a deal, Vic, you drop the Romneybot stuff and I won't use the word purist. 

88 Again, we differ.  I think OCare will be gotten rid of, and there are multiple routes by which that can be accomplished.

What in their history makes you think John Boehner or Mitch McConnell will fight to get rid of it?

89 I'll make you a deal, Vic, you drop the Romneybot stuff and I won't use the word purist.

Are you going to get the rest of the "moderates" to drop the word "purist"?

90 What in their history makes you think John Boehner or Mitch McConnell will fight to get rid of it?

The certainty of an impending hanging if they have the power and don't.

91 >>What in their history makes you think John Boehner or Mitch McConnell will fight to get rid of it?

_{Now that there is about as likely (and funny) as an elephant ballet.}

92 Are you going to get the rest of the "moderates" to drop the word "purist"?

1) I don't include myself in the "moderate" category, I just have a different approach to achieving our common goals.
2) I don't control anyone but myself.  And even then, there are sometimes problems.

93 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk

Sing it brutha.

94 The certainty of an impending hanging if they have the power and don't.

Posted by: pep at December 22, 2011 09:28 AM (6TB1Z)

I'm pretty sure in October 2010 people would have assured us Boehner would have hung from a tree if, instead of $100 billion from the budget (as he pledged), he cut one billion.

These aren't men who have historically shown fear of being defeated from the right.  All their terror is toward the left.

95 These aren't men who have historically shown fear of being defeated from the right.

Because historically they haven't had to.  I doubt they are so unwise as to not see the handwriting on the wall, but if they are, they will pay the price.  Assuming, of course, that we manage to put them in the position where repealing OCare really is possible, and that's all we're really discussing here.

96 So, let me get this straight-pass the two month extension, Obama gets credit from the media.  Come back in two months and do it again, Obama gets credit from the media.  Hold out for a year long extension, oh the horror, we can't die on this hill, keep our powder dry,  and so on.  What GM doesn't get is that the press isn't going to give anyone credit but Obama for anything.  Any blame for any issue is going to be passed to the R's.  Is GM still holding the fantasy that the press is a neutral arbiter of something?

97 Here's the problem, Reid is either a super genius or a complete imbicile. No budget, constantly waits to the last minute to do things thus forcing these crises. And every time this works to his advantage. And what does the House do? Play along. Shit why not extend this tax cut 3 months ago. The House could have gone on the offensive, but apparently there is zero coordination among Repugs. I give up on the government , its a piece of shit and deserves to go down in flames.

98 Reid is either a super genius or a complete imbecile

I know where my money is.

99 Because historically they haven't had to.  I doubt they are so unwise as to not see the handwriting on the wall, but if they are, they will pay the price. 

Posted by: pep at December 22, 2011 09:37 AM (6TB1Z)

We just saw John Boehner get completely blindsided when his own caucus revolted, after months of them getting more and more restless with each calculated retreat Boehner engineered.

And the going theory is, the caucus was wrong to do so.  Do you really think the reaction will be different when, faced with an intractable Harry Reid in the Senate, Boehner moves on to more 'realistic' matters and the caucus revolts?

100 Do you really think the reaction will be different when, faced with an intractable Harry Reid in the Senate, Boehner moves on to more 'realistic' matters and the caucus revolts?

That's just the point.  Reid won't matter in '12, because he won't control the Senate and even if the GOP lacks a filibuster-proof majority, some Dems will
vote with them to save their own skins in '14. 

I've enjoyed it, but I'm outta here for a few hours.

101 The common skill set that most of congress and the MFM share is the facility of lying with a straight face.
Nonstop.
No matter what.
24/7/365.
That doesn't change anything about our fate, it just obscures their shared guilt and most of the possible solutions.

_{I think that Shakespeare had an answer but he's dead.}

102 My question is...why do the Democrats want to raise taxes on the common people right in the middle of Easter?

103 This is a bad analysis did you forget the part where the CBO says the Democrat plan for a two month extension is UNWORKABLE due to payroll computer programming problems.

So pass an unworkable solution that is pure politics, wow this is coming from this blog?

104 That's just the point.  Reid won't matter in '12, because he won't control the Senate and even if the GOP lacks a filibuster-proof majority, some Dems will
vote with them to save their own skins in '14.

Proof this will happen?  Otherwise it's just prophecy, and it is 99% likely to be wrong.

105 I'm tired of blaming politicians for how things are working/not working. Mostly, it's not working because the voting public doesn't know how it should work. Major differences in the bills? Go to committee. That's how it f-ing works. But now you have a nation of idiots who think the GOP doesn't want a "tax cut for the middle class" because they want to go to committee and the Senate flew home. We are a nation of U.S. Gov't/civics retards and the politicians know it.

106 Has the GOP ever won a political battle vs Obama? His approval is near 50% now and he's only going to get stronger and will be over 50 by January.

107 Douchebags.

108

I so hate the GOP.

They make the Keystone Kops look good. They're also determined to get Barry reelected. *sigh*

109

Reid is either a super genius or a complete imbecile.

How 'bout corrupt and evil?

110

Reid is either a super genius or a complete imbecile

He's a super imbecile.

111 Replace McConnel with Rubio and Boehner with Paul Ryan. Our 'leadership' could fuck up a 2-car parade.

112

 But because he ran against the EVIL, TAX HIKING GOP as a group.

 

ROFLMAO.  That was funny, Gabe.  I'm sure you'll be doing your part to help impress this theme in people's minds.  You're off to a good start, already.

113 Gabe, you need to read the bill, HR 3630. There is more in it than you realize. Example, reigning in EPA job-killing "regulations". The Senate never voted on HR 3630 but according to you that's hunky-dory. The Senate voted on an amendment sponsored by Reid and cosponsored by McConnell. No debate, nothing, just vote and rip out 2/3s of HR 3630.

You should be ripping the Senate a new one.

114 They should have opposed it from the start and blamed Obama for trying to destroy Social Security. ^ * 1000

115 Stop judging what is and is not a victory by looking at how the far left reacts. So what if some loon in the Sierra Club was throwing a hissy fit? The far left is throwing hissy fits because we aren't full on marxist yet. Does that mean everyday we go w/o becoming full on marxist is another victory? I think not.

116 Presadent Obama cares about me. With my $40 I can now buy the high quality cigerettes instead of generic.  I feel good and will vote for Presadent Obama for sure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

117

As Ace has talked about, you've got your two types of voters. Those who have a fucking clue what's going on, and those who are frightened and confused and can't find their pants.

Among the former, maybe we all know the GOP is being fucking retarded again, but it does not really change anything. That's unexpected.

Among the latter, they will never know nor care this is going on.

The former are the only ones who know about this or care about this.

Hell, even among the former, in 2 months hardly anyone will remember this happened unless they're reminded and maybe not even then.

GOP makes stupid move, WORLD ENDS!!1!, then Thursday comes, repeat until it kills you.

118 41 And if the number of people out of work is still above 20% in the fall, none of this will matter. We need to stop fighting over crumbs. Posted by: Potato Bandit at December 22, 2011 08:30 AM (H15Ok) You said it, Buster....examining pebbles while ignoring glaring, obscene, hideous Rocks of Gibraltar.

119 Screw McConnell (RINO-Chinless) and the Senate.  Note to Boehner: Grow a set of balls.  No deal.

President Buttplug & the wifey are spending a cool 4 million on vacation.  This pisses me off.

120 Somebody in the White House strategy room draws up plans that require the Congress to keep having these stand-offs with them. It doesn't matter what the issue, it doesn't matter which "principles" are involved in the fight. The White House needs to look like Congress is standing in the President's way of enacting legislation. For the American people. It's their re-election strategy. And here we are, arguing about the principles.....

121 Republicans, although on the right side of most battles, are fools; they have no street smarts - and they are giving the Dems the gifts needed. Being a conservative stinks: either socialist types or fools.

122 Sorry but you are just wrong if you believe that they were going to pass a one year extension in Feb. This is the Democrat nickel and dime election strategy. Every two months bring up a bill and bring the government to the brink of shutdown and demonize the Republicans as to how they want to cut out the middle class from any meaningful tax cut. I think it is better to get it out now, and whatever happens, happens.... rather than slow bleed the pubs over the next year.

123 Looks like I got here too late. This thread is dead, but if the House leadership were smart, which it's not, they would make this "fight" about their rules vs. the Senate's. Take the White House out of this equation, set up a fight between them and Reid. It's a fight they can win, because nobody likes Reid, and the more he has to talk, the worse the D party sounds. Put the President on the sidelines where he belongs, and have a knock-down drag-out fight between the tax cutting House and the arcane rule making Senate. See which side the American people side with.

124 My head is ready to explode. What would it take to remove McConnell from the leadership position? Vote of no confidence?

125 McConnell and Boner are jerkoffs.  They should have never agreed to taking money out of the SS Funding to begin with.  These 2 aholes benefited most from the 2010 elections and are completely useless.  I want to puke when Boner weeps.

126 This whole spectacle is more of a Beltway obsession than it is on Main Street.  I agree that House Republicans screwed up the messaging, but Democrats aren't going to garner any additional votes on this come November.  The average American thinks a 2 month tax holiday is a stupid idea. 

My opinion is that Republicans should simply ignore that cutting payroll taxes will end Social Security at a much faster rate.  They should instead go along with Obama and keep cutting these taxes indefinitely so we hit a wall sooner.  Only then will we get any sort of real reform.

127

The Republicans need to quit trying to play the political game...because they cannot compete with the win at all costs Democrats.  Republicans need to stand on conservative principles. 

The missing ingredient is the ability to effectively communicate the reasoning behind their decisions to the independent/swing voters.  They must find a way to counter the utter BS that spills from Reid and Pelosi, which then gets echoed throughout the liberal media.  This blog, fox news, and talk radio is just preaching to the choir.     

Voters will respond positively to principled common sense....if they hear it.   

128

I mostly blame the Senate Republicans for passing a bill before Boehner had the chance to speak to his Conference. As for Boehner, he knew Cantor, McCarthy, and Hensarling were leery of the compromise and he was fortunate in that the sweeteners in the House bill led to that bill being passed. He likely thought winning the Keystone provision would override other concerns because the Conference was so insistent on that point. Regardless, he decided to fight for what they want instead of trying to force them to take it.

 

129 Also, from the description of teleconference, interviews, and the votes Tuesday, it was not just the freshmen who rejected the compromise. It was most of the conference.

130

I'm not buying into this crap.

Every economic policy this President has stood for has resulted in massive failure. 

If the Republicans can't illustrate that the resulting cut of less than $20.00 per week is meaningless in the face of increased energy, utility, and gas costs that have been forced down the throats of Americans by the Obama administration, they are patently retarded.

This is nothing more than a media fabrication made out of whole cloth to swaddle and prtect their little brown saviour.

 

 

131

In the real world, pay checks are issued via computer systems. The way the law is written, it's not just a two-month reduction in rate. That would be easy. What the law requires is actually much more complex and would require significant changes to the software that calculates the taxes. In case Gabe hasn't noticed, it's DECEMBER freakin' 22, just ten days until JANUARY 1.  All the proposed changes would have to be designed, tested, debugged, and then implemented in ten days.  Any error can result in violation of union contracts, and then the grievance and penalty process gets rolling. And that's not even including the fact that most people prefer to be paid on-time.  It's like saying "Build an elevator to the moon. How hard can it be?"  A lot damn harder than it is to say it, that's for sure.

 

132 Can't a Rep. stand up angrily in front of a camera and say 'OK, we will cave into the 2 months instead of a year, but we will not be coming back to this issue in 2 months to extend it again. Harry Reid, and Obama have decided 2 months is better than a whole year.'

133 At some point the GOP needs a strategy that's a little better than: "we're not democrats."

134 The reality of the situation is that the House GOP is fighting the wrong battles.

There will be no prospect of 'big' victories until either the Senate or the Presidency falls. 

Yes, that means a lot of can-kicking.

They should be focusing on cutting agencies' budgets and trimming programs at DOJ and EPA and etc.   It will have more of a long-term policy impact on this government than will big grandstanding maneuvers. 

135 Well said Gabe.

136 The stupid party indeed. It's stuff like this that reminds me why I never registered as a Republican. (Doesn't stop them from bugging me for money, though.)

137 Look, Boehner was ready to take the first deal - a bad policy and a bad bill, but politically impossible to successfully oppose - and go home, which is why the Senate did.

It was the so-called "Tea Party" conservatives who threw a wrench in the works.  Boehner should have just brought it to a vote on the floor, he may have won enough Democrats to pass it anyway.  But his style of dealing with the well-intentioned but naive newbies is to give them enough rein to run with what they want and let them discover for themselves there is no path to get there from here.

We cannot dictate policy with the House Majority alone and Democrats controlling the Senate and the White House.  It cannot be done.  We can shut the government down completely, but we will take the full blame for it at this point.  Besides that, every bill that gets done will be a compromise with the Senate Democrats at least (Obama isn't really a player, more of a loud-mouthed spectator).  Every.  Single. One.

It has NOTHING to do with "principles" whatever.  It is merely a recognition of the reality of the present time.  Refusal to accept reality does NOT make you a "purer" conservative, only a purer fool.