1

Seal Team 6 Shot first!

/Maybe we can get George Lucas to add a blaster in the remake footage?

2 I  will be sleeping with the night light on tonight!

3 Iiiiif you're happy and you know it stomp your feet...

4 I don't have a problem with this either. the Team was trained to ask him in Arabic to surrender. I'm thinking he responded something got to hell. The team also had a a time line which was limited. Taking down a non-cooperative individual would have blown that time line.  If they could have taken him out of there quickly, calmly and quietly they probably would have done it but Osama didn't comply and now he's dead.  Oh, well.

5 The obvious and potentially wrong inference to be drawn from that is that capture was not really on the menu at any point.

There were reports of that from "undisclosed leaks" yesterday. They never intended to take him alive. As I posted in the previous thread, with the current Supreme Court it is not advisable to take any terrorist prisoners.

6 Make them own it.  That's all I care about.  We should push for the truth to come out because we need them to embrace their inner assassins. 

7 In my fantasies they stood him up against the wall, made him say "Who's your daddy?" in arabic, and then gave him the double tap. But then I'm a heartless right-wing death monkey.

8 The real story was the tension in the Situation Room.  Pins and needles.  Heroes, the lot of them.

9 No blood for oil!

10 Lefties in heaven:

@Milbank: First day of Obama's second term goes smoothly. http://wapo.st/mznT2q

11 Wasn't there a picture released of the brain trust at the White House (and Sheriff Joe) watching the live helmet mounted camera of the murder takedown?

Wouldn't they have been able to see if OBL had a gun, or if he fired it, hid behind a woman, etc?

Something's fishy here.  CONSPIRACY!!!11!11!

12

I also noticed and did not mention the "after a firefight, they killed Osama...".

If anything, I thought it was clumsily worded, but it does sound relevant if they've already gone "full Tillman" on the story.

13 This is great news for the 2012 elections! After the leftists break their arms patting themselves on the back for OBL's demise, they won't be able to pull the lever or punch the card at the voting booth! Repub blowout!

Now all we need is Repub pols to start acting noticably different from the Democrats and we've got something!

14 "WaPo poll shows 51% of Americans think GW Bush should get some credit for killing Bin Laden. His image may improve too."

In other news, 49% of Americans are morons. But we already knew it was roughly that number.

15 Oh, and my previous comment was my way of saying "Yes indeed, I am just fine with this, but the lefties are definitely NOT okay with it, and there will be much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments as the details came out." But I wanted to keep it short.

16 Well if they decided on not using bombs because they wanted to be able to confirm the kill, then yeah they weren't looking to take him alive.

(He wouldn't have had a weapon if they used bombs either)

17 Hey, that wasn't a gun in his pants, he was just glad to see them.

18 See, that hot Chinese news lady was right!

19 11 Lefties in heaven: @Milbank: First day of Obama's second term goes smoothly. http://wapo.st/mznT2q Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 03, 2011 01:32 PM (qdBf5) I'm going to e-mail this to Miss Dana on the morning after the GOP candidate wins.

20 Posted by: Lincolntf at May 03, 2011 01:32 PM (xMT+4)

The reason I noticed it is in the waiting period leading up to the announcement Wolf Blitzer kept saying how the WH would be working very carefully on every word in the statement and chose them for very specific reasons.

He was right, this was the defining moment of the Obama presidency, a moment that will be replayed for generations. It wasn't some, um, slapdash blog post. When I heard 'after' it was like...wooh, two in the back of the head?

21 I personally don't are if Osama was unarmed when he got shot. The perfect scenario, for me, would be him on his knees begging for mercy and THEN getting shot. However, I would like a little consistency from the professional left on this matter. If OBL was unarmed, then this was an assassination (which, again, is fine by me), and the left had a thing or two to say about that tactic when GWB was President. Just be consistent and stand for SOMETHING, please!

22

"But one way or another, you will pay the price for harming our people."

We're still standing, bitches.

23 BTW, I keep seeing references to "double-tapping" OBL in media reports.  Do we think that's an accurate description or just the media trying to sound all Dirty Harry cool?  'Cause double-tap to me sounds a lot different than killed in a fire fight. 

_{Usual disclaimer: I don't care how OBL was offed, but I do care that Obama be held accountable for what he ordered the SEALs to do.  It sounds to me like capture was never an option.  If so, that needs to be clear.} 

24

He, um, didn't have a weapon? That's an interesting little factoid, no?

Not to me. In the video of him actually shooting an AK-47 it was obvious he barely knew which end the bullet came out of. I think he used the weapon as a prop, to enhance his image, and had little other use for it, no skill with it, much less comfort handling it. Besides, he had had no need for it for years, if what I've read is close to correct.

25

If they had put 2 in the back of his head while he was kneeling, Sopranos-style, I would be fine with that.

Liberals can't get their heads around the indisputable fact that there are people in this world beyond any form of redemption, and they need killing. There are plenty of people in this country willing to do the killing, and the bleeders need to shut the fuck up and get out of their way.

26 "After a firefight"

At any time during or immediately after a firefight, any enemy is fair game. You don't arrest Osama Bin Laden, you don't ask him to put his hands up and get face down on the ground, because you don't know if he's got a gun, or if he's wired to explode and take several soldiers with him. Furthermore, you DO NOT take that chance!

In modern war, a firefight in a building means everyone in that building gets eliminated, you don't take chances.

27 As I wrote earlier this morning over at my place, I'm glad the last thing that went through OBL's mind was American lead.

28 This administration sucks.  Even when we get the guy who's been murdering innocent civilians for years, they still manage to fuck it up somehow.

29 In my fantasies they stood him up against the wall, made him say "Who's your daddy?" in arabic, and then gave him the double tap. But then I'm a heartless right-wing death monkey.

Posted by: joncelli at May 03, 2011 01:31 PM (RD7QR)

In my fantasies the shooter repeated what was said to Saddam: "President Bush sends his regards. (*blam*)"

30

Can I admit something and ask if anyone else feels this way?

I feel an extreme amount of pride and fear over the killing of Bin Laden.

 

The pride because we've now shown that given enough time, there is no where on this earth, that is 197 million square miles, can you hide from America if we are determined.

The fear for the exact same reason.

31 The Obama Admin. should have gotten all its facts straight before it went out and bragged about how they took-down OBL. More importantly, the multiple stories do a disservice to the SEALs because it feeds conspiracy theories. So they should have waited.

32 Hey Drew, I thought I tweeted to you about the "after" thing right after he said that?

33 IF I had to guess, few if any shots were fired by Team Osama. The raid was over in 5 minutes. Who was there to stop it, two couriers, Osama's son and the Tall Doofus himself?

34 I'm going with the Taiwanese version. No mention of the goat in the press, yet?

35

Liberals can't get their heads around the indisputable fact that there are people in this world beyond any form of redemption, and they need killing.

If you limit that to conservative Republicans they are totally on board. 

36 No blood for oil!
Posted by: Good Times, Good Times at May 03, 2011 01:32 PM (uqJo6)

Violation of international law!

Secret death squads!

Illegal invasion!

Due process!

 

37

Speaking of Bush...America would like to say thanks.

WaPo poll shows 51% of Americans think GW Bush should get some credit for killing Bin Laden. His image may improve too.

Obviously, that twitterer is a dyslexic.  I'm sure that number is supposed to be 15%.  Imbecilic George W. Bush is a total screw up who was too busy mountain biking, clearing brush and going to bed early to focus on the rigors of being President. 

Thank God President Obama is finally able to make some headway despite all the heavy lifting he had to do first, in order just to clean up the huge mess left by Bush.  As a concern Christian, I feel really blessed to have such a smart, brave man with  amazing acumen and flawless judgment like President Obama to be in the White House.  Bush had 10 years, Obama had 2 years, and look who caught the worm!  Because of his amazing courage to get the hard work done, I will be pulling the lever for Obama.

38 Double bluffÂ…Look, you obviously don't know anything about intelligence work, lady. It's an XK Red 27 technique.

39 @33 The Obama Admin. should have gotten all its facts straight before it went out and bragged about how they took-down OBL.

Yep. 

40

I think they fully intended to kill Osama. And that bothers me.

Because now that President Obama has authorized a mission into Pakistan without seeking Pakistani permission and authorized this assassination, I find my raging hatred for the man mellowing into smoldering, bitter distaste instead.

I'm getting to be an old softy these days.

41 I will be pulling the lever for Obama.

Posted by: Concern Christian at May 03, 2011 01:41 PM (ihSHD)

They still have levers in your corrupt precinct?

42 Seal Team 6? Cut Jib Newsletter.

43 Any of y'all read this yet?

44 Posted by: Michael K. at May 03, 2011 01:39 PM (H6VxR)

I may have. I tweet a lot. I'm shocked anyone follows me. I'd drive me nuts if I followed someone like me.

45 I am glad bin Laden is dead. He was a skunk and a rascal and now resides with other criminals like Reagan, Nixon, and Hitler !!

46 IF I had to guess, few if any shots were fired by Team Osama. The raid was over in 5 minutes. Who was there to stop it, two couriers, Osama's son and the Tall Doofus himself?

Posted by: Ranger Rick at May 03, 2011 01:40 PM (qr+c4)

According to reports it took awhile to get to the 3rd floor. When they first touched down they needed to make arraignments for the bad helicopter. They  probably moved slowly clearing each room on the way to the top where Osama was.

47 REDRUM for oil.

48

Heh, my liberal friends who didn't have one word to say about Osama's demise yesterday are all weighing in today; many with this same quote:

"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. ~Martin Luther King, Jr."

 

Here's my response:

 

You know, I see this more as a karma thing. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Al Qaeda has killed thousands of Americans here and abroad as well as the mass murders of scores of people in The Philippines, Spain, several African... countries, Turkey, Indonesia, England, India, and numerous countries in the Middle East. Its members have tortured, raped and beheaded innocent civillians as well as assasinated government officials. It is a truly evil organziation committed to hate.

That being said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" (Edmund Burke) rings true. MLK also said "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps perpetrate it."

49

Alternate theory...

Pakistan knew Bin Laden was there all along.  One of the Bali bombers was arrested in Abbotabad and he lead us to Bin Laden.  We went to the Pakistanis and said we are going to get him and will give you complete deniability if you don't f it up.

 

50 now that this tragedy has taken place on foreign soil.  i hope that international pressure will be brought to bear on the country of pakistan to allow the religious community of this country to build a synagogue and or church on the site of the event to celebrate the lives of the deceased, facilitate cultural understanding, and worship together.

51

I am glad bin Laden is dead. He was a skunk and a rascal and now resides with other criminals like Reagan, Nixon, and Hitler !!

 

Ha! Ha!  I just had a flashback to Sunday night when Geraldo called Osama "a bum".  LOL!

52 The Obama Admin. should have gotten all its facts straight before it went out and bragged about how they took-down OBL. More importantly, the multiple stories do a disservice to the SEALs because it feeds conspiracy theories. So they should have waited.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 03, 2011 01:39 PM (qdBf5)

Jebus...they watched the whole thing occur!!  To get the statement wrong is some major incompetence...but we already knew that.

53 yep, taking him alive would have been one of the worst mistakes in human history, so I am glad we avoided that.

and I might note that the Taiwanese video might turn out to be close to reality.

54 @42

I think they fully intended to kill Osama. And that bothers me.

Because now that President Obama has authorized a mission into Pakistan without seeking Pakistani permission and authorized this assassination,

It doesn't bother me because it was simply the completion of an act that was authorized properly under Bush.  So going into Pakistan or assassinating OBL is fine with me.  I just want Obama to own it. 

It does bother me that he's clearly trying to assassinate Qaddafi when he hasn't even gotten authorization from Congress to be in Libya in the first place.

55 Posted by: Sgt. York at May 03, 2011 01:38 PM (LJBsr)

Exactly but Brennan said yesterday he was given a chance to surrender but didn't.

It's not law enforcement but sounds like the administration is trying to have it both ways.

They should just man up and say, "Yeah we went there to kill the motherfucker and we did. You're welcome.".

56

Any of y'all read this yet?

Yup, already dismissed it, too.

57 Semi-OT: Cantor, Hoyer want more information on Pakistan role

58 I'd drive me nuts if I followed someone like me.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 03, 2011 01:43 PM (WNzUA)

You're nothing....Tammy Bruce is a maniac tweeter.  I unfollowed her today.

59 Which one of you morons is socking Mrs John Hinckley Mary Clogginstein?

60 In the script I wrote, as Osama is cornered, the helmet cam broadcasts his monologue directly to the war room. He brags about killing thousands of bastard American infidels and then laughs condescendingly at our impotent justice system. As he holds his hands out for the restraints, the grizzled, war weary SEAL utters a wry comment and puts him down. As the gathered bleeding hearts in the war room recoil in horror, the hero turns the camera on himself and says something awesome and then lights a cigar.

61 Osama shot himself when the raid began, but that's a shitty ending - he practically "wins" by going out on his own terms like that. So this cock and bull story was concocted about special forces delivering the fatal shot, and Osama's body was conveniently dumped so that nobody can determine that the cause of death was a self-inflicted wound from a small caliber (though I don't doubt his body took a few post-mortem rounds of 5.56 just for fun).

62

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at May 03, 2011 01:42 PM (1rHeD)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.  I kind of wonder about Panetta too.  He was the guy that had to watch Osama get off scott free as his boss, BJ Clintoon dithered and blew.  Panetta must have felt like deja vu all over again, and maybe decided he didn't want to have to live with that again.

63 My respect for Bush grows every day. We all know he wasn't perfect and some of his domestic decisions pissed me off but he took withering and undeserved abuse for years about his policies in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the larger war on terror and specifically on enhanced interrogation techniques and never lowered himself to respond to his most unhinged critics. The actions he took set up the opportunity Obama had to take bin Laden out and he made a very classy statement congratulating Obama and the troops. He will always have my respect for how he handled this issue. While Obama does deserve some credit for authorizing the SEAL response he doesn't receive nearly the tongue bathing he is getting. What was he going to do, a massive bombing campaign on a purported allies territory without approval? Yeah, right. Even if he did how did get approval how did that work out for Clinton? Even if this had gone badly how much criticism would he really have taken for launching a campaign to take out bin Laden. I'm glad the SEALs did what they did and they get most of my respect and thanks but Bush takes second place. Obama is somewhere down the list.

64 Posted by: runningrn at May 03, 2011 01:44 PM (ihSHD)

That MLK quote is bogus.

http://tinyurl.com/3wb43ar

65 The Euroweenies/UN are already questioning the legality of the raid.

66

They still have levers in your corrupt precinct?

 

I have a um, personal private lever...

67 The Euroweenies/UN are already questioning the legality of the raid. Posted by: Chariman LMAO at May 03, 2011 01:50 PM (yJyNa) I'm sure. Hey how are Gaddafi's grandkids doing?

68 Ace, are you shelving the "Telegraph, Citing Wikileaks: ..." (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/315642.php) post?

69 #57 You always have a chance to offer to surrender. Trouble is, the other side is under no requirement to accept the offer. It takes two to get the job done.

70 Excuse me, UBL was feeble and on dialysis, he didn't need to "surrender" to be captured. You think the SEALS couldn't have managed to capture him if those were their orders? That's insane. This was all a farce. They can't even get their storyline straight.

71

It doesn't bother me because it was simply the completion of an act that was authorized properly under Bush.  So going into Pakistan or assassinating OBL is fine with me.  I just want Obama to own it. 

Honestly the only thing that bothers me about this is that I've had to ratchet down my hatred for Obama (just by a teeny tiny bit). I'd love to be able to find fault with him but ultimately this was his decision and I can't find anything wrong in what's he decided.

72 It does bother me that he's clearly trying to assassinate Qaddafi when he hasn't even gotten authorization from Congress to be in Libya in the first place.

Posted by: Y-not at May 03, 2011 01:46 PM (pW2o

Bothers me too.

73 Obama is somewhere down the list.

I think he's just behind me.

74 Joe, there's a new post up about it.

75

That MLK quote is bogus.

 

Heh!  I saw it as on several FB accounts today!  heh! 

 

I cross referenced the ones I put up against several sources, so I hope they are right!

76 Posted by: Dumb_Blonde at May 03, 2011 01:53 PM (C9JSP)

A blind squirrel finds the occasional nut.  

77 Ooops!  Sock!

78

Exactly but Brennan said yesterday he was given a chance to surrender but didn't.

It's not law enforcement but sounds like the administration is trying to have it both ways.

They should just man up and say, "Yeah we went there to kill the motherfucker and we did. You're welcome.".

Yeah, it does seem that they're having trouble getting the narrative straight.

I'm not fully convinced that killing him if/when we had the opportunity to capture, detain, and interrogate him. 

I'm totally cool with just shooting the SOB on sight, but it might have been more humiliating to AQ to see their brave leader captured without putting up a fight, no longer able to credibly claim martyrdom.  I'm not sure either way; water under the bridge now.

79 Frankly, I don't care how he died. I do wish that the Obama White House wasn't using this as a political tool but I expect no less.

80

I cross referenced the ones I put up against several sources, so I hope they are right!

Posted by: Concern Christian at May 03, 2011 01:54 PM (ihSHD)

Well, it's bogus in a mashed up sort of way.  The first person to quote it on FB put her own thoughts in the first sentence but it was passed around as all his words.

81 Posted by: Downscaled Upscale at May 03, 2011 01:54 PM (IhHdM)

OBL is not an individual. He's the leader of the terrorist forces we declared hostilities against in 1991. Its of no more moral import than the Iraqi officers we popped in Gulf War I and II during the war.

82 "But one way or another, you will pay the price for harming our people."

Hezbollah -- 241 + 92,  USA -- 0

83 Tami, yeah, now there is.

84 I wonder if he was standing next to his bed with the IV bag hanging next to him, probably why they dont want to release any pics as we probably did him a favor.  Oh well, RIH you SOB

85

The Euroweenies/UN are already questioning the legality of the raid.

Without a doubt, they would've put OBL in jail and then had the mother of all show trials for at least a decade while they let their precious little "international law" work its magic. In a way, we saved the world, and ourselves, a small fortune, 'cause you just know we'd wind up paying for it.

Not to mention the increased probability of terror attacks that we'd be under. How anyone can deny that we did the right thing escapes me, "law" or no. It's a sad testament to the current state of morals in the rest of the world where multiculturalism and postmodernism are the norm, and there's no such thing as right or wrong and all cultures are just wonderful.

86 I dunno... I uncorked a bottle of champagne and toasted his death, as well the men and women that brought him to justice, and those that didn't live to see justice done, as soon as the talking heads confirmed the news.

But if we went there, with no intention to take him prisoner... that rubs me the wrong way. It's different than the shoot out we were all expecting in a cave. He was in a suburb, maybe unarmed. I understand it would be inconvenient to take him prisoner. But I think it would be better to deal with that inconvenience, than the questions that are now popping up.

Don't take this the wrong way, but something is out of sorts here... as I look at how this is all coming together, it seems like there is some bit of Jessica Lynch mythology/Pat Tillman coverup brewing about the circumstances of his death, and how we were led to his hide out.

I salute the President for taking this bold action, and I salute the brave men that executed it... but I feel like there is something else going on here.

And for the love of God... don't we have any Helicopters that fucking work? Good Grief...

87 My hezbo count could be off:

US Embassy 1st time -- 63*
Marine Barracks     -- 241
AU President -- 1
Will Buckely -- 1
Col Higgins -- 1
US Embassy 2nd time -- 23*
TWA/Stetham - 1
Q8air - AID guys - 2

* not all Americans
==============

More then enough reasons to kill Assad's whole family

88 Excuse me, UBL was feeble and on dialysis, he didn't need to "surrender" to be captured. You think the SEALS couldn't have managed to capture him if those were their orders? That's insane.
This was all a farce. They can't even get their storyline straight.

Posted by: kathleen at May 03, 2011 01:52 PM (K4ia2)

Where has it been suggested he was feeble?

89 Capturing bin Laden would simply have brought out every nut job liberal lawyer.

Is this a bad thing?

We could have them all consult for him.  In one place.  At a nuclear testing site.

Just throwing out ideas.

90 There is no way that the assault team could not have assumed OBL would not have had some kind of suicide device handy.  Shoot to stop.

91 So we just did a no-knock raid in Pakistan then? Complete with the bullshit press releases uttered by the local flacks and police agencies?

92 Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 03, 2011 01:59 PM (d0Tfm)

Its just reflexive anti Americanism. The funny part is if we'd locked him up in a base of ours on their soil they'd be crapping bricks.

I'll care what they think when they have some ability to act on it.

93 Posted by: AmishDude at May 03, 2011 02:01 PM (T0NGe)

I don't like to jump to conclusions but after reading your comments for a number of years, I'm getting the impression you don't like lawyers.

94

The Euroweenies/UN are already questioning the legality of the raid.

 

Oui! Zuch theengs arrr earesponsabeeel.

95 So the Obama admin is playing out the "murder mystery" of Osama just like you do in the game of Clue?

1.Guess at how it went down
2.Check the polling data
3.Poling data is bad = wrong answer
4.Guess a different way it went down
5.Repeat until they finally win the game

96 And for the love of God... don't we have any Helicopters that fucking work? Good Grief...

Posted by: Jim T at May 03, 2011 01:59 PM (l+flC)

I doubt you'd find many compounds that a chopper can fit into without issues. In the Son-Tay raid the plan was to expend the choppers to get the troops in. This may have been the plan, or it may just have clipped something and been expended.

Choppers are fragile little things. Use em and buy another. As long as the job gets done.

97 Posted by: Jean at May 03, 2011 02:01 PM (WkuV6)

And if we had dropped a bunch of JDAMs on his ass no one but the most hardcore lefty/libertarian types would have said squat.

The problem is simply Brennan tried to put a spin on things yesterday that was totally unnecessary.

98 Also... I can't help but feel infuriated that this dude has been living under our nose for 6 years in this house...probably being hidden by the Pakistani government.. don't we have spies and CIA operatives all over that country. It feels like a massive failure of intelligence on our part.

I mean, on the one hand you have this amazing story of them following a trail to find him for 8 or 9 years... on the other hand the dude has been sunbathing on a roof top, while drones have been flying over for 6 years... it's almost sort of infuriating.

I think Mike Hendrix of Coldfury made a comment like 9 years ago (at least I think it was him) that Osama was hiding out behind a 7/11 in Dearborn... not that far of compared to where we all thought he'd be...

99 77

That MLK quote is bogus.

 

Heh!  I saw it as on several FB accounts today!  heh! 

LOL, my Liberal wife posted that "MLK" quote on her Facebook page, too.  She doesn't want anyone to think she's happy that bin Laden is dead.

She admitted that she instead wanted bin Laden tortured and drowned in pig blood, though... Strange woman.

100 That sidebar post by Ben linking a white house insider who says Obama/Jarret were overruled by Panetta, Clinton, Gates and Daly is interesting. Uses the term "temporary coup".

This seems rather plausible.  Since Bill Clinton received copious criticism in having bin Laden in his sites back in 1998 and failed to act, perhaps Mrs Bill had an overwhelming desire to vindicate her cheatin' man (but he's my man, dammit!).

And I have extreme trouble understanding how Obama could have taken the stands he did re: rendition/civilian trials/muslim outreach/ military baby killers and then turn around and order this.  Its just so Orwellian. 
But if Hillary did it...............

101 http://tinyurl.com/3gfhedc "Last night, however, a well-placed source with strong links to Pakistan's security establishment put to me an alternative analysis. He said that bin Laden had been lured away from his mountain hideout with a promise of total security – only to be betrayed. This is a very different kind of story, because it suggests that the ISI and the Pakistani army may have played a significant part in the operation which brought about bin Laden's death." From the today's Daily Telegraph, story entitled "Whose side was Pakistan on in this shootout?"

102 52 now that this tragedy has taken place on foreign soil.  i hope that international pressure will be brought to bear on the country of pakistan to allow the religious community of this country to build a synagogue and or church on the site of the event to celebrate the lives of the deceased, facilitate cultural understanding, and worship together.

Matt,  that is just too perfect.  Let's start a website to promote your idea and solicit for donations.  Let's have contest for the name of this "community center." 

103 Abbotabad, abbotabing, abbotaboom!

104 Posted by: Jim T at May 03, 2011 02:08 PM (l+flC)

No we don't have a lot of on the ground intelligence in the Muslim World, for a number of reasons. And when we get some, the Democrats leak it if a Republican is in power.

And if you thought Pakistan was anything more than a marriage of convenience, well, think again. Its no shocker to me.

105 The Admin. should have just (1) released whatever information they could in the most factual way possible and (2) thanked the military and intelligence community for making it happen.

106 I'm still hoping that they did capture him, and are working him over for information. The "dead and buried at sea" story could allow for this while (hopefully) preventing some of the problems that might occur if we acknowledged that he was a prisoner.

107 now that this tragedy has taken place on foreign soil.  i hope that international pressure will be brought to bear on the country of pakistan to allow the religious community of this country to build a synagogue and or church on the site of the event to celebrate the lives of the deceased, facilitate cultural understanding, and worship together.

Matt,  that is just too perfect.  Let's start a website to promote your idea and solicit for donations.  Let's have contest for the name of this "community center." 

Posted by: lan sing

 

We can donate the landing gear of the helicopter. It can match the landing gear that wound up at the erstwhile mosque site in NYC.

108 In my version of perfection a SEAL kicks open the door, sees osama and says "fuck you dude" and then empties an entire mag into the scumbag. I myself wanted nothing less than for him to be killed with all the hatred of the universe channeled into one long muzzle blast.

109 From the today's Daily Telegraph, story entitled "Whose side was Pakistan on in this shootout?"

Posted by: kathleen at May 03, 2011 02:09 PM (K4ia2)

Its a millennial old tradition for countries to keep their hands on refugees and political types for possible use against a country, or to sell them out if the price is right. Think of France keeping the refugee "Pretender" kings of England for all those years.

I'm not sure the Pakis actually closed the sale on OBL in this case, but it could have been that way. Or maybe Obama just went around them and got him.

110

She admitted that she instead wanted bin Laden tortured and drowned in pig blood, though... Strange woman.

Posted by: Pyrocles

Uh......is she a good cook?

111
And if you thought Pakistan was anything more than a marriage of convenience, well, think again. Its no shocker to me.

Posted by: Oldcat at May 03, 2011 02:10 PM (z1N6a)

I know it's a marriage of convenience, which is why I figured we'd be watching things more carefully. It doesn't really surprise me at all that they've been hiding him all this time. It does piss me off though, since foreign aid money was probably helping to keep his dialysis machine humming.

112 Posted by: Jim T at May 03, 2011 02:15 PM (l+flC)

Another thing to consider is that saying "Pakistani Government" like it is a monolith is probably inaccurate. Part of the Government could have been shielding him while another part was less inclined that way.

113 I would like to note that when a Republican administration comes into office that fuckers like Obama and Holder would be complaining about Osama's mistreatment. Waterboarding  - bad. Leadboarding - good.   

114 It has been said Osama was shot in the head, then in the chest to assure he was dead. However, if the pictures of his head injuries are so bad why did they shoot in in the chest to assure he was dead? Obama is not releasing the photos because they will show Osama was shot in the head execution style, which is great. However Obama does not want the world to know he ordered a kill mission.

115

I've got  a little list, said somebody in the Mikado.

Question:  Suppose the Pakis knew where OBL was, and that they were actively hiding him.

The ISI knows, from practical experience, how good out intel gathering and analysis is.  Did they think we'd never, as in never-ever, find him?

Did they think, having found him, we'd leave him alone?

Did they think that, having decided to get him, we'd think the Pakis had him too well protected?

Did they think, if we tried, that they could defeat US?

After our mutual experiences with our friends in the Paki military and intelligence, it's odd to think they might have come to those conclusions.

More rational to think they didn't know. Which, of course, is flatly impossible.

So, what went on????

116 40 Double bluffÂ…Look, you obviously don't know anything about intelligence work, lady. It's an XK Red 27 technique.

Posted by: Otto at May 03, 2011 01:42 PM (gQLr2)

Shouldn't the sock have been Mr. Fred Manfrenjensendon.

117 Carney is now saying that OBL's wife rushed the SEALs. She was shot but only wounded.

118

Choppers are fragile little things. Use em and buy another. As long as the job gets done.

Posted by: Oldcat at May 03, 2011 02:05 PM (z1N6a)

Wired Magazine's Danger Room has a satellite photo of the compound with the helicopter parked inside of it here.

Also there, Spencer Ackerman furiously tries to minimize the importance of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" used to identify Osama's courier.

119 Another thing to consider is that saying "Pakistani Government" like it is a monolith is probably inaccurate. Part of the Government could have been shielding him while another part was less inclined that way.

Posted by: Oldcat at May 03, 2011 02:17 PM (z1N6a)

That is an excellent point, i keep thinking it's like a western type government...it's most definitely not.

120 Obama is not releasing the photos because they will show Osama was shot in the head execution style, which is great. However Obama does not want the world to know he ordered a kill mission.

Posted by: Uqbal at May 03, 2011 02:18 PM (4emjH)

This is my hypothesis also, how long did it take to release the images of Saddam's sons? I think he was probably executed.

121 Posted by: Richard Aubrey at May 03, 2011 02:19 PM (wxHHM)

I'd guess a combination of 1 and 3.  It would be hard to find him, and hard to be sure you got him. And if they got wind we were planning a mission, they could move him and start the ball over again.

And if we did get him, what have they really lost? Not much.

122 With the seeming evolution from Obama to Brennan to Carney, the White House has really manged to step on its own dick with it's narrative.

123 Backing away! hell the WH is running. Carney just stated that the decision to kill was made on the operation and not by the WH. Plausible denial. CYA. Will the WH throw the Navy Seal under the buss if things get too hot? Think about it. Yesterday Obama in his speech it was I, me, mine and moses. Today the questions are getting a little pointed (surprise that the MSM is questioning the one), and the stories are a changing. Hum.  

124 With the seeming evolution from Obama to Brennan to Carney, the White House has really manged to step on its own dick with it's narrative.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 03, 2011 02:24 PM (WNzUA)

Hardly a shocker.

125 With the seeming evolution from Obama to Brennan to Carney, the White House has really manged to step on its own dick with it's narrative.

Posted by: DrewM. at May 03, 2011 02:24 PM (WNzUA)

Seriously!

CARNEY: 'Resistance does not require a firearm'...

What did he have a sword cane? Sharks with laser beams attached the their heads? Did he give the SEALs a stern look, or try to use a vulcan death grip?

These guys all watched the live feed... how could they mess this up so badly?

126 120 Carney is now saying that OBL's wife rushed the SEALs. She was shot but only wounded.
Yes - that, as opposed to her being used as a shield.   Earlier I think it was Jennifer Griffin who reported that there were no armed guards at the compound. Which leads to the question of who, exactly, they were having a firefight with.

127

These guys all watched the live feed... how could they mess this up so badly?

Posted by: Jim T at May 03, 2011 02:28 PM (l+flC)

Because the proper response, that this fucker's hide was paid for 10 years ago, is alien to their nature. They can't just laugh and say "So frickin what?"

128

129 ...The MSM is daring to question a Nobel Piece Price winner who started a war in Lybia and quite possibly ordered the assassination of a terrorist leader?...

Priceless. 

129 "Another thing to consider is that saying "Pakistani Government" like it is a monolith is probably inaccurate. " Of course it's not a monolith. But nor is it a thoroughly divided government, with one half terrorists and the other half pure as the driven snow. It is a thoroughly compromised government that has made a deal with the devil. And it seems more and more clear that in our dealings with Pakistan, we've shaken hands with the same devil.

130 and if you think we didn't know where OBL the past few years, I've got a bridge to sell you.

131 Shoot Him the Head!  Then again, then in the chest!

Don't tell anybody I said that tho.

132 "Earlier I think it was Jennifer Griffin who reported that there were no armed guards at the compound. Which leads to the question of who, exactly, they were having a firefight with." A narrative never gets this f***ed up unless it's a coverup

133

Where are the photos? These guys can't pull of a decent circle jerk, and zerO wants us to believe he was closely involved? Bullshit, he was dragged kicking and screaming is my guess.

134 So, will Holder bring SEAL team 6 up on manslaughter charges now? Don't think that is too far fetched for this group grope.

135

Where are the photos? These guys can't pull of a decent circle jerk, and zerO wants us to believe he was closely involved? Bullshit, he was dragged kicking and screaming is my guess.

Posted by: maddogg at May 03, 2011 02:33 PM (OlN4e)

This is a case where Obama's laziness works in our favor. Unlike Carter, who was involved in every step to screw things up, Barry had golf games to go to, so he let the guys on the ground work uninterrupted.

136

and if you think we didn't know where OBL the past few years, I've got a bridge to sell you.

It took that long for the conspiracy theory crazy to rear it's head?

What happened to the Internet I thought I knew?

137

Yeah, of course they were sent there to kill the guy.  I mean, come on, this whole story about OBL resisting them - what, did he throw a shoe at them, fidget a bit ("Hey, Osama, is that a gun in your gown or were you in the middle of something with that young wife of yours?") Hard to believe these SEAL's, one of the toughest special ops teams in the world, couldn't have restrained this old guy and taken him, if those were their orders. I think Obama wanted him taken out. That way he wouldn't have to worry about any trials, or public opinion, or where to house him, and all those annoying questions from the media and the public. (Because, nobody asks Hu Jintao any questions...)

(This is no criticism the SEAL's...I'm a Navy brat! They did what they were trained to do.)

138 130 120 Yes - that, as opposed to her being used as a shield.   Earlier I think it was Jennifer Griffin who reported that there were no armed guards at the compound. Which leads to the question of who, exactly, they were having a firefight with.

I wonder if any of the Pakistani officials in the area responded.

139 Obama may have committed an impeachable offense, but took the chance anyway. If that's the case I'll give him:

He has committed numerous impeachable offenses but capping OBL is not one of them. The prohibition against assassination only applies to heads of State, not terrorists.

Besides that, it is a Presidential finding only. He can countermand that.

Also, it was reported yesterday that there was never any intent in capturing him. It was always intended to be a kill mission.

140 I wonder if any of the Pakistani officials in the area responded.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 03, 2011 02:49 PM (qdBf5)

Only if they were really stupid Pakistani officials.

141 Panetta says President Obama Couldn't See Bin Laden's Death, but Received 'Geronimo' Signal . Why Obama?? Because you don't want to see one of your Muslim Brothers Fragged You piece of Pig Shit?????????????

142 So it sounds to me like the XO only applies to heads of State.

143 I think the WH was ok with saying "hey, he reached for his AK, and we plugged him."  The early Daily Beast (I think) story mentioning OBL got a double-tap to the head made me doubt this whole "he was caught in a firefight" business.

So now the admin, having laid some groundwork about him being given the chance to surrender, feels (for some reason I don't understand) like it might have to release a photo of the body. I think they are concerned they might also need to release the video (or have decided that the video is beneficial for some reason) and have to start comporting earlier statements to reality.  Which makes them look a little silly.

I am sure they IDed him visually, by voice (from the video and any listening devices/techniques they were using), by facial recognition software, and by DNA. I don't need any further evidence to believe it.

144 Funny in that article that Russia is concerned with "targetted killings". I guess you can only kill reporters.

145 This is one of the biggest events since Bill Clinton won the Cold War.

146

 First OBL eats American lead; and now...

67 The Euroweenies/UN are already questioning the legality of the raid.Posted by: Chariman LMAO at May 03, 2011 01:50 PM (yJyNa)   American leftists about to be hoist on their own European petard! Life is good.

147
Seal Team 6 Shot first!

Wait for it...wait...wait...SEAL Team 6 acted stupidly. You know if this goes sideways somehow, this where the blame will be laid.

148 The message: Even those swishy "peace dividend" presidents will kill Osama Bin Laden if they find him.

149 I want to see the video of the Americans murdering an unarmed Osama. And Obama can be tried for War Crimes.

150

I think that the reason the Administration is tied in a knot over the facts of his killing is that they still have not come to terms with whether Osama is a military combatant or a criminal. 

From my (admittedly limited) understanding, if you are a combatant in a military context you do not have to offer surrender to another party but you must take a properly offered surrender (if you are able to).  To be a proper surrender, the surrendering party must become non threatening (drop the weapon) and present itself to the other combatant in a manner that displays the surrender.

In a criminal context the goal is to arrest.  Therefore, there is more of an obligation on the part of the "arresting" party to try and take the other party alive.  Even if the other party doesn't offer surrender the arresting party cannot kill in the absence of a threat of imminent great bodily harm.

I think Osama never offered to surrender.  I think that the SEALs had him cornered in his room (they were likely outside) and they (going beyond what they are required to do in a military context) gave him the opportunity to surrender.  When he did not take it, they entered the room and shot him dead.   His "resistance" was his failure to surrender.  Think of the Japanese in their caves in WWII.  We offered opportunities to surrender.  When they did not come out we lawfully burned them alive in their caves.  You are not required to risk you troops to clean out cornered dead-enders.  Basically it presumes (for good reason) a constant state of imminent great bodily harm.

If this had been a criminal context, that shooting could be considered unlawful if Osama did not have a weapon when they entered the room or if had one and did not threaten anyone with it.  Obama's explainers need to explain the difference between the military and civilian context - but they do not want to because that would be (yet another) admission that this is a war we are fighting (you would have thought that the use of SEALs here already made that clear).

151 It doesn't make any difference what he is.

152

Dammit Vic, that took me a long time to write and you dissed it in 8 words.

 

153 We posted a lot of research on this subject earlier. The XO applies to heads of State, not terrorists. And besides an XO can be overridden by another XO.

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