December 28, 2011
— Ace I often think that conservatives make too big a deal out of strategic clarity. Sometimes (sometimes) clarity isn't such a great thing.
That said, clarity is often the best policy.
Obama has presented himself to the world for three years as a weak man embarrassed and ashamed of America's might, chiefly obsessed with making apologies and insulting old (colonialist) allies, and who flinches from the hard way.
He's been clear on his policy of appeasement towards Iran, which emboldens Iran, and which may cause them to think they really can block traffic in the Strait with impunity.
There is one snag in that chain of reasoning: It's an election year, and Obama is as a weak in the polls as he is in world leadership.
We may wind up exchanging shots precisely because Obama has presented himself as so craven, and now reaches for the military option out of a different sort of craveneness.
This could all just be saber-rattling, and Obama's own rattled saber might induce the Iranians to but their own saber away.
But many times wars erupt due to miscalculation, don't they? Miscalculations about the enemies' capabilities, intentions, and likely responses to provocations.
Do the Iranians understand it's an election year and Obama desperately needs some kind of accomplishment to add to his pile of one?
Iran's navy chief warned Wednesday that his country can easily close the strategic Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, the passageway through which a sixth of the world's oil flows.It was the second such warning in two days. On Tuesday, Vice President Mohamed Reza Rahimi threatened to close the strait, cutting off oil exports, if the West imposes sanctions on Iran's oil shipments.
In response, the Bahrain-based U.S. 5th Fleet's spokeswoman warned that any disruption "will not be tolerated." The spokeswoman, Lt. Rebecca Rebarich, said the U.S. Navy is "always ready to counter malevolent actions to ensure freedom of navigation."
But I do know what "peace through strength" means. It doesn't just mean winning fights -- that would be a "victory at war through strength." Peace through strength means would-be enemies do not doubt your mettle or your will to carry your national interests forward, so they don't test that mettle.
It's not just the fights you win. It's the fights you win because no one attempts to fight you at all.
Posted by: Ace at
02:32 PM
| Comments (238)
Post contains 413 words, total size 3 kb.
Well, since we haven't had the political will to actually demonstrate our power against an enemy in a long, long, time, a lot of those in Washington have forgotten how to "win" a war.
We can't even find the cojones to execute illegal enemy combatants, as is our right under international law, which the left is so fond of. If we were to *ahem* make some room in Gitmo, we might not be getting treated like an enemy in our own damn airports and having six-year-old girls sexually molested as a result.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, President, Curmudgeon's Union Local 427 at December 28, 2011 02:30 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 28, 2011 02:35 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 02:35 PM (rCEvh)
Not only that but we are already in the process of demilitarizing ourselves.
But if Iran waits to do this until after 2012 and Rick Perry is in office they will cease to have a navy or anything else along the coast within a few hours.
Posted by: Vic at December 28, 2011 02:36 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 28, 2011 02:38 PM (Mrdk1)
I'm old enough to remember a time when it was the wimpy Democrats who threatened to light off the cruise missiles instead of putting troops on the ground.
Those were the days, apparently.
Posted by: Wodeshed at December 28, 2011 02:38 PM (SgLsM)
He combined both and apologized for colonialism during the Cairo leg of his tour. That was kinda cool for an ... "American".
Posted by: really ... at December 28, 2011 02:38 PM (X3lox)
This just may be the place.
Thanks
Posted by: The guy who doesn't know his nic at December 28, 2011 02:40 PM (Onw8c)
I suspect he would do something. Not because he wanted to, or because it was the right thing to do, but because it would give him a 'rally around the flag' bump in the polls.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 28, 2011 02:41 PM (SY2Kh)
Obama wants this to happen. He has no intention of stopping Iran. He'll make some brave noises and then invite them to a "historic" summit meeting, at which he'll apologize for something and come home telling us we'll have peace in our time. (I'd be willing to bet money he's even historically ignorant and conceited enough to actually use those words.)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 02:42 PM (rCEvh)
Two.
Posted by: An Egypt Controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood at December 28, 2011 02:42 PM (QKKT0)
Well the Air Force bowl game is a barn burner, those boys can go over and take care of a little bizness after graduation.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 28, 2011 02:44 PM (JYheX)
Posted by: Dr Spank at December 28, 2011 02:44 PM (lVGED)
Posted by: tasker at December 28, 2011 02:45 PM (r2PLg)
"We can't even find the cojones to execute illegal enemy combatants, as is our right under international law, which the left is so fond of. If we were to *ahem* make some room in Gitmo, we might not be getting treated like an enemy in our own damn airports and having six-year-old girls sexually molested as a result.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, President, Curmudgeon's Union Local 427 at December 28, 2011 06:30 PM (d0Tfm)"
I am not so sure, given the cult of martyrdom among our foes. I believe what WOULD work quite well is to exploit the clan and feuding mentality that still seems to be common in the Middle East and target the extended family of terrorists. That would provide a powerful incentive for families to discourage their young men from going on the jihad. Warfare against non-state actors is not some new thing, and the threat of retaliation against kin-groups/villages/tribes encourages them to be peaceful. The problems are that 1) governments will not like us targeting their citizens, 2) it would be difficult to correctly identify the correct targets in many cases, and 3) we are too civilized to murder a bunch of more or less innocent people.
Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2011 02:46 PM (sEvRn)
Posted by: JEA at December 28, 2011 02:47 PM (NBlyf)
What pray tell does anyone think the Boy King is going to do about it?
Jack squat shit is what!
What can the "republicans" do or will do, NOTHING!
Posted by: McLovin at December 28, 2011 02:47 PM (j0IcY)
Posted by: tasker at December 28, 2011 02:47 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Dr Spank at December 28, 2011 06:44 PM (lVGED)
He'll just blame Israel, which is where this is all headed, anyway. It'll be like when he was trying to blame everything on Israel building a few apartments in Jerusalem - Al Quds to Barky and his gang, which 98% of America has no idea about - but 100000 times worse. Barky's licking his chops thinking about this.
Also, he doesn't care if he gets re-elected or not. He never has.
Posted by: really ... at December 28, 2011 02:47 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 28, 2011 02:48 PM (niZvt)
By hemming and hawing over the biggest no-brainer decision imaginable?
Yeah, OK.
Posted by: Waterhouse at December 28, 2011 02:49 PM (jbVeA)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 28, 2011 02:49 PM (niZvt)
Showing weakness to any of the third worlders particularly islamists only emboldens them.
Posted by: jukin at December 28, 2011 02:50 PM (5oKRH)
This just in.... ( typing newsroom noises) ( and beeping)
Iran exercises it's Mooslim right to do so and closes the Straight of Whore-mooze . The SCOAFM, a.k.a. Barry O'Barky Obama issued the following statement from his island retreat in Hawaii, the island of his purported birth,
" As this action by the Moolahs in Iran has been taken, I think the best we Americans can do it to stop our reliance on foreign oil products. And in that vein, I am henceforth pushing forward with my HIGH SPEED SOLAR powered TRAIN project. It will take us all working together and stop our bickering. It will also add millions of good jobs."
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 28, 2011 02:50 PM (Mrdk1)
Re-election is crucial to O'Bumbles. His ego commands it.
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 02:50 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Ron Paul!!!!! at December 28, 2011 02:52 PM (lVGED)
Posted by: Random at December 28, 2011 02:52 PM (YiE0S)
There is no chance President Obama would let the Iranians get away with it.
Even if he wanted to, the pressure from the country, the military establishment, and the Democratic Party elites would be irresistible. The President only has so much room to make decisions.
If the Iranians are calculating on the weakness of the President, they are in for a world of hurt.
It would probably be for the best too. Blockading the straits would be a clear causus belli that would allow us to settle accounts.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at December 28, 2011 02:53 PM (epBek)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 06:50 PM (QKKT0)
Meh. He's been happy making a total fool of himself in public, over and over. He just doesn't care. If he did, he would have stopped appearing in public long ago. He would just blame everyone around him. That's what makes him feel good, anyway - breaking things and blaming others.
Posted by: really ... at December 28, 2011 02:54 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 28, 2011 02:54 PM (Mrdk1)
I'd tell you wingnuts more but I'm a busy little capitalist.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 02:54 PM (3lndb)
I don't believe he believes he could not be reelected.
Such a thing is not possible in his reality, so he never proceeds as if it were.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at December 28, 2011 02:55 PM (Qxdfp)
Unless a Rethugglikkkan does it, then it's just to steal their oil
Posted by: Clarence the Clown at December 28, 2011 02:55 PM (Y+DPZ)
They're all full of Iranian seamen.
*rimshot*
Posted by: The 12th Imam at December 28, 2011 02:55 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: nevergiveup at December 28, 2011 02:55 PM (eCnLg)
Posted by: oldsalt at December 28, 2011 02:57 PM (3bo9E)
Posted by: Minuteman (aka trainer) until Juggy is Gone at December 28, 2011 02:57 PM (DGxyd)
Posted by: Max Power at December 28, 2011 02:58 PM (+wxCD)
Posted by: Adm. Josh Painter aka Teh Fred at December 28, 2011 02:58 PM (kqqGm)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 28, 2011 02:58 PM (niZvt)
A blockade would destroy Iran. They would be in all-out civil war in three months. Iran needs it open for gasoline. I say close it for them.
Posted by: Cicerokid at December 28, 2011 02:58 PM (boLoz)
We can solve two problems (maybe more) at once:
Problem 1. Iran wants nuclear weapons.
Problem 2. Obama wants to get rid of our nuclear weapons.
I say we give them the weapons. As I'm sure Iran won't let our planes land - the Air Force can fly over and drop them off.
We reduce our nuclear arsenal to appease the left and we create a nice new glass repository creating jobs (albeit overseas)... [Dang it, I knew there was a drawback - but, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.]
Posted by: Dilligas at December 28, 2011 03:00 PM (/Odq7)
Too bad Obama dissed Bibi or we could borrow a few dozen Jooooo Sharks to handle this.
As it is it will probably only take two Gurkha and a Zodiac to deal with these camel fuckers.
Posted by: garrett at December 28, 2011 03:00 PM (NFiMR)
Posted by: Charlie Gibson's Cat Heeves at December 28, 2011 03:01 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 06:42 PM (rCEvh)
I agree with your comment. The SCOAMF has never really cared about US national security. He'll use this last year of his only term to bring the US down as far as possible. He has an agenda, and precious little time to complete it.
Posted by: Soona at December 28, 2011 03:04 PM (Lf3dT)
Posted by: tasker at December 28, 2011 03:05 PM (r2PLg)
Artillery, they are in artillery range, our Navy has great weapon systems, I hope they take into account dodging old school steel.
Posted by: Bannable at December 28, 2011 03:06 PM (OG/Pd)
Posted by: RON PAUL!!!! at December 28, 2011 03:07 PM (xXhWA)
You can't get theah from heah.
Posted by: taciturn New Englander in your colon at December 28, 2011 03:08 PM (ZIcZg)
Posted by: tasker at December 28, 2011 07:01 PM
The intense record heat for the region will be somewhat localized and short lived - it can be written off as "weather". Although, care does need to be taken to help ensure that global cooling is not a result.
Posted by: Dilligas at December 28, 2011 03:09 PM (/Odq7)
Posted by: nevergiveup at December 28, 2011 03:10 PM (eCnLg)
Obama takes out thugs like Qaddafi and Bin Laden with no troop losses? Weakness!
You delirious Bushnecks never have a fucking single fact on your side.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:11 PM (z0HdK)
One Gurkha with kukri to cut off their nuts, sahib.
Posted by: Rifleman Billy Fish at December 28, 2011 03:11 PM (sHY5w)
We may wind up exchanging shots precisely because Obama has presented himself as so craven, and now reaches for the military option out of a different sort of craveneness.
Sort of a Bill Clinton wag the dog moment. We do not need to go there again.
Posted by: Johnnyreb at December 28, 2011 03:11 PM (NNrYJ)
They don't think the same way we do, that's a given. Plus they are tricksy bastids.
Just a thought, or random Illuminati rays leaking through my tin hat.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 28, 2011 03:12 PM (ENKCw)
Posted by: Soona at December 28, 2011 03:13 PM (Lf3dT)
What will be really interesting, though, is if fraudulently conveyed assets are shielded in this manner: if MF Corzine steals your money and uses it to top off a margin requirement for his own stupid bet, can his counterparty hold the stolen assets? I would hope not, but we're making this stuff up as we go along now. That's bullish...
Posted by: luke duke at December 28, 2011 03:13 PM (dxr9s)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 28, 2011 03:13 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: RON PAUL!!!! at December 28, 2011 03:13 PM (xXhWA)
Democrat Presidents have done this every time they get in office. (even Clinton did this he just got away with it cause the saber rattlers were so weak).
Then when they suddenly realize that 3/4 of the country are not French or surrender monkeys (BIRM) they decide they need to bomb somebody to make a point.
Instead of showing strength they show weakness and are shocked, shocked I say to find there are those in the world who wish to do us harm and take advantage of the surface appearance of weakness.
It is surprising that the despots of the world never learn either.
Of course if Obama invades/bombs Iran the Networks will cream in their jeans in his decisiveness and show of strength and his reelection will be almost guaranteed.
So buck up everyone all this mishegas about the primaries and whether Romney or Gingrich is the biggest RINO and how it would all be different if Perry didn't act like a stumble bum doesn't matter because the October surprise will be Iran getting their ass kicked (with Saudi backing) by Mr. Obowwow.
Posted by: Vote for Me. I'm a Millionaire at December 28, 2011 03:14 PM (xqpQL)
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 03:14 PM (MMC8r)
But it would have to be early in the afternoon so that Scranton Joe can get his binky and have his nap.
Posted by: MrCaniac at December 28, 2011 03:15 PM (uuOfy)
The Iranians made their threat as a deterrent to any US or Israeli attack on their nuclear program.
Unfortunately for Iran, the US has been planning how to counter an Iranian threat against the Strait of Hormuz since 1980. It surprises no one in the West that Iran would make such a threat, because it really is Iran's main strategic tool against the West.
It didn't work out so good for Iran during the 1980s, when they did in fact attempt to keep the Gulf Arab states from sending oil via ship out of the Gulf. However, that was when Reagan was President. Today we have Obama, and the question is not whether he will be willing to act, but whether he will be hell-bent on preventing the US military from acting. (The delay in his giving the order to shoot the pirates on a hijacked ship is indicative of his dangerous indecisiveness.)
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 03:15 PM (Di3Im)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 03:16 PM (rCEvh)
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:16 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 03:17 PM (Di3Im)
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 28, 2011 03:17 PM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: Truman North at December 28, 2011 03:17 PM (I2LwF)
As a Bruce Bartlett Republican, I can recognize and applaud our slim sexy young President in his efforts to save the world for capitalists such as myself. I cream my Jos. A. Bank slacks just thinking about the sheer level of righteous violence this man is capable of. I only wish you sad inbreds out there had the same clarity of vision.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:18 PM (3lndb)
Posted by: MrCaniac at December 28, 2011 03:19 PM (uuOfy)
You delirious Bushnecks never have a fucking single fact on your side.
Obama took out Qaddafi like the French took out Hitler.
His involvement in getting Bin Laden consisted of sleeping on it, then 16 hours later saying "approved".
Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 28, 2011 03:20 PM (SY2Kh)
You delirious Bushnecks never have a fucking single fact on your side.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:11 PM
Obama didn't take out Qaddafi, NATO did, led by the French of all people. All Generalissimo Barry did was give them some Predators to use. Oh, and what was supposed to take a month took six months. Qaddafi was pretty much neutered anyway, it's like bragging about beating the shit out of a cripple
Oh yes, Barry himself deduced where OBL was hiding, dropped from a chopper and kicked the door down with his gun emptying lead into Osama
After sitting on the information for six months that is
Posted by: Bawney Fwank at December 28, 2011 03:20 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: how to tell you've lost the argument at December 28, 2011 03:20 PM (jbVeA)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:18 PM (3lndb)
Shouldn't that be "Men's Wearhouse" slacks since they support the OWSers?
Posted by: MrCaniac at December 28, 2011 03:21 PM (uuOfy)
Posted by: Rear Admiral Mohammed M. Mohammed, XIV at December 28, 2011 03:22 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:22 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:19 PM (z0HdK)
That fat ass isn't going to go away by laughing, Clarence. Just sayin'
Posted by: The 12th Imam, Appearing Nightly All This Week at December 28, 2011 03:23 PM (QKKT0)
You delirious Bushnecks never have a fucking single fact on your side.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:11 PM
I guess it helps Obama Slurpers like yourself when you can just pull whatever "facts" you need out of your ass.
Where did you get your "facts" troll, from the Media Matters section of the Girl Scouts web site?
Posted by: kbdabear at December 28, 2011 03:23 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:23 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: USA at December 28, 2011 03:24 PM (6Cjut)
Posted by: MrCaniac at December 28, 2011 07:19 PM (uuOfy)
No, because it takes 10 years to complete Environmental Impact Studies before the refineries can be considered and by then, it will to too late for Gaia, Bushpigs!
Posted by: Clarence! at December 28, 2011 03:24 PM (6Cj35)
Posted by: Clarence: On reasoning... at December 28, 2011 03:25 PM (xHenH)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 03:25 PM (rCEvh)
Posted by: the 12th Imam is pretty waterlogged at December 28, 2011 03:25 PM (ENKCw)
Au contraire, Bushitler schveinhunt! I'm a CAPITALIST. I'm too busy making eleventeen vermillion dollars on Wall Street to bother myself too much with what the OWS snots want, and quite frankly if they appreciated the sheer ability of that sleek young killing machine in the White House they'd be too busy fapping themselves into comas to occupy much of anything.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:26 PM (3lndb)
Hillary and McCain repeatedly said they would never invade Paki sovereign space at all. They called Obama "naive" for saying he would.
Obama - OBL killer.
McCain / Hillary = appeasers.
FACT.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:26 PM (z0HdK)
My name is Clarence. I'm an Obamaholic
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:26 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:27 PM (V6pJz)
Peace through strength means would-be enemies do not doubt your mettle or your will to carry your national interests forward, so they don't test that mettle. It's not just the fights you win. It's the fights you win because no one attempts to fight you at all.
I believe it was one Arthur Fonzarelli who espoused that same philosophy to a young friend, Richie Cunningham.
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 28, 2011 03:27 PM (4q5tP)
What's that line about history not repeating but rhyming?
Posted by: ontherocks at December 28, 2011 03:27 PM (HBqDo)
I mean, do you think we listened in and watched every fucking thing they did? Da Huh.
The stupid is strong, let's not forget the Iranians have an election coming up and this looks like propaganda for that event.
At any rate, boys, thanks for all your codes and sonar soundings for your third rate navy. We won't use any of this, promise.
Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at December 28, 2011 07:22 PM (hXJOG)
But it wasn't just the US Navy and intelligence services that observed the Iranian exercises.
It was the folks in the White House. To them, the Iranians sure look scary. And if the Iranian exercises deterred the folks in the White House, guess what? It doesn't matter that they failed to deter the folks in the Pentagon: they got what they needed.
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 03:27 PM (Di3Im)
Posted by: Christina Hendricks' Mighty Jugs Supports Rick Perry's Hair for President at December 28, 2011 03:27 PM (QsOwI)
Posted by: Crazy Eyes at December 28, 2011 03:27 PM (boLoz)
Here are my FACTS:
BUSH EVIL IRAQ NAZI REDNECK EVIL BUSH IRAQ LIES IRAQ OIL BUSH CHENEY EVIL IRAQ NAZI REDNECK BUSH REDNECK LIES IRAQ OIL BUSH CHENEY LIES OIL BUSH EVIL IRAQ NAZI BUSH IRAQ NAZI CHENEY NAZI EVIL LIES IRAQ OIL WAR BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:28 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 03:28 PM (rCEvh)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 28, 2011 07:25 PM
FIFY
Posted by: The Fixer at December 28, 2011 03:28 PM (Y+DPZ)
Shouldn't that be "Men's Wearhouse" slacks since they support the OWSers?
With Obama, it's all about the Man's Country bathhouse.
Posted by: Rahm Emmanuel at December 28, 2011 03:28 PM (vjyZP)
KARL ROVE KARL ROVE KARL ROVE KARL ROVE KARL ROVE KARL ROVE KARL ROVE KARL ROVE
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:29 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: CDR M at December 28, 2011 03:29 PM (Ybl9g)
Obama - OBL killer.
McCain / Hillary = appeasers.
FACT.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:26 PM (z0HdK)
I completely agree! Obama has done the heavy lifting necessary to provoke a shooting war with Pakistan. It may end up with a nuclear exchange, but we certainly need to deal with Pakistan once and for all.
Or is Obama unlikely to order a nuclear strike that will kill perhaps millions of Pakistanis?
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 03:30 PM (Di3Im)
@88
The problem with your arguement is that Obama ran on an anti-war platform, and often complained of the violence.
Obama is the one that insisted that the war must be escalated in Afghansitan, and at the same time he changed the rules of engagement essentially handcuffing our ground forces, which explains the large increase in casualties. Bush's stategy was focused on Iraq, becuase Iraq is not land locked, and it is a much easier place to fight.
So either Obama is a Liar, a Hypocrit, or both. Either way he never does what he say's and he can't be trusted anymore with controls of a super power.
Posted by: Stewie at December 28, 2011 03:30 PM (JMsOK)
Other facts for your fools:
Zithromax cures most forms of STDs but this case of gonnorhea has me banging my dick with the bathroom stall door to get rid of the pustulent infection.
It's pretty gross.
FACT.
Posted by: Clarence! at December 28, 2011 03:30 PM (6Cj35)
Posted by: USA at December 28, 2011 03:31 PM (6Cjut)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:32 PM (QKKT0)
It didn't work out so good for Iran during the 1980s, when they did in fact attempt to keep the Gulf Arab states from sending oil via ship out of the Gulf. However, that was when Reagan was President. Today we have Obama, and the question is not whether he will be willing to act, but whether he will be hell-bent on preventing the US military from acting. (The delay in his giving the order to shoot the pirates on a hijacked ship is indicative of his dangerous indecisiveness.)
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 07:15 PM (Di3Im)
Been there and did that during Operation Ernest Will 1987-88. We reflagged all of those Kuwati tankers with US flags and and "escorted" them up and down the gulf and dared Iran to do something. They chose not to do anything rash with two US carrier battle groups parked off the Straits of Hormuz and eleventy bazillion F/18s flying overhead.
Posted by: Johnnyreb at December 28, 2011 03:32 PM (NNrYJ)
Posted by: Mullah Clarence! at December 28, 2011 03:32 PM (Ybl9g)
Clarence The Troll takes simultaneous beatdown on like 3 threads.
Do you get a troll chub or a mini Woodrow when that happens little fella?
Fact:
Pathetic troll beatdown
Posted by: ontherocks at December 28, 2011 03:32 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: Christina Hendricks' Mighty Jugs Supports Rick Perry's Hair for President at December 28, 2011 03:33 PM (QsOwI)
So publicly telling a nominal ally that, if elected, you'll consider them a target is a wise thing to you?
Here's the deal, skipper-- if you need to invade, you do. But you don't state it as policy, definitely not as a given years in advance. That's all Amateur Hour.
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 03:33 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:11 PM (z0HdK)
Ah, Clarence, when will you pinks give up this old canard? Insisting that the sky is green doesn't make it so
Posted by: Ombudsman at December 28, 2011 03:33 PM (AxHOT)
Obama causes it to rise every morning to cast light upon his children
Those are the FACTS, you inbred wingnut Jesus loving retards, DEAL WITH THEM !!!
Posted by: My Name is Clarence, I'm an Obamaholic at December 28, 2011 03:34 PM (Y+DPZ)
Bushpigs gathered in their masses
Barry snuffing jihad asses
Dumb Con minds decry destruction
B.O., the man of death's construction
In A-stan, the bodies burning
As the "O" machine keeps turning
Death and justice to ragheads
Re-election 'gainst brainwashed inbreds
Oh, Lord yeah!
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:34 PM (3lndb)
Oh wait, it's not 2005 anymore?
Ahem
I am so proud of my president for invading a sovereign country that didn't even do anything to us and killing its people!
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:34 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: tasker at December 28, 2011 03:34 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: UN kleptocrats at December 28, 2011 03:35 PM (j+Izh)
Posted by: Mister Money at December 28, 2011 03:35 PM (wN82N)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:32 PM
I just like him as a friend
Posted by: Clarence's Mom at December 28, 2011 03:35 PM (Y+DPZ)
I gave Iran a Top Secret Military Drone for Christmas. It was loaded with all of my greatest speeches.
All I got in return were threats to close the Strait of Hormuz!
Posted by: #IWantedaniPhone at December 28, 2011 03:36 PM (NFiMR)
Iraq = brilliant masterpiece of Bush/Cheney thinking!
Libya = total loss of our USA military!
You guys are moronic partisans.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:37 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: My Name is Clarence, I'm an Obamaholic at December 28, 2011 03:37 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: cicerokid at December 28, 2011 03:38 PM (boLoz)
Posted by: Clarence Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:39 PM (Mrdk1)
Iraq = brilliant masterpiece of Bush/Cheney thinking!
Libya = total loss of our USA military!
One was to depose a dictator in favor of democracy, the other was to hand it over to the Muslim Brotherhood.
You exult in false equivalence.
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 03:39 PM (MMC8r)
Stupid Bushies.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:39 PM (3lndb)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:37 PM
You want to entertain us? Sit in a barrel and find a corner to piss in
Posted by: kbdabear at December 28, 2011 03:40 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: toby928© at December 28, 2011 03:40 PM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:32 PM (QKKT0)
Why not our son, we all did!
Posted by: Every Liberian Sailor at December 28, 2011 03:40 PM (uuOfy)
Posted by: Crazy Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:40 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: Clarence Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:40 PM (Mrdk1)
Libya = total loss of our USA military!
Careful with those strawmen, fucknuts. I hear they catch fire easily.
Posted by: Waterhouse at December 28, 2011 03:40 PM (jbVeA)
Posted by: Sun Tzu at December 28, 2011 03:41 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 07:37 PM
Hey my man, if you gonna blow a lot of air outta your mouth, at least make some music
Posted by: Clarence Clemmons at December 28, 2011 03:42 PM (Y+DPZ)
This from the guy who comes on here only to suck Obama's cock.
And BTW: Oil prices up 220% under Obama.
FACT.
Posted by: Waterhouse at December 28, 2011 03:42 PM (jbVeA)
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 03:43 PM (MMC8r)
Nice.
Posted by: toby928© at December 28, 2011 07:38 PM (GTbGH)
Quick, e-mail that to Dennis Miller!
Posted by: ErikW at December 28, 2011 03:45 PM (6Cj35)
He was convicted - where is the justice?
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:45 PM (z0HdK)
80/20
I dunno. That would require customer interaction, and with every second word out of his mouth a spittle-flecked "non-partisan" "BUUUUUSSSSHHHH", he'd hardly be able to keep that position longer than 30 seconds.
Posted by: Waterhouse at December 28, 2011 03:45 PM (jbVeA)
Posted by: Clarense at December 28, 2011 03:45 PM (X3lox)
Odds that Clarence is over 13 years old: 3-2
Posted by: Wodeshed at December 28, 2011 07:41 PM
Time or mental age? And then there's the option he was born on Feb. 29th... and is both - while visually looking like a 40 yo.
Posted by: Dilligas at December 28, 2011 03:46 PM (/Odq7)
Posted by: Ron Paul's Foreign Policy Advisor at December 28, 2011 03:46 PM (FabC8)
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 03:47 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Clarence at the Drive-Thru, Minute 1 at December 28, 2011 03:47 PM (jbVeA)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 03:47 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Clarence Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:48 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: Clarense at December 28, 2011 03:48 PM (/0HuL)
Posted by: kbdabear at December 28, 2011 07:40 PM (Y+DPZ)
Or ride one over Niagara Falls.
I don't gamble but I might put $50 on fun bet.
Posted by: ErikW at December 28, 2011 03:48 PM (6Cj35)
Posted by: bergerbilder at December 28, 2011 03:48 PM (j+Izh)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 03:48 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 07:47 PM (QKKT0)
Odds that Clarence's boss refers to him as "The Bitch": 1:1000
Posted by: really ... at December 28, 2011 03:48 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:49 PM (sHY5w)
Clarence Clemmons is dead, you miserable Bushswine. President God Damn He is So Fucking Sexy When He Rams a Bazooka Barrel Up Dictator Asses accidentally killed him when the Big Man got into the way of PRESIDENT Barack H. Fucking Obama's steely-eyed bead on an entire province this past summer.
Collateral damage, yes. But this Adonis of Artillery can't make a save-the-world omelet without breaking a few eggs. YOU'RE. WELCOME.
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:49 PM (3lndb)
Posted by: Clarence Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:49 PM (Mrdk1)
@148
Clearance,
Your arguement is 10 miles wide and a milimeter deep. The arguement isn't about cash or blood loss, it is about accomplishing geo-political and military manuvers that are in the best interest of the U.S.
You seem to beleive that just leaving the middle east somehow eliminates us from the War....it clearly does not.
The Lybian/Egypt/Tunisia/Sudan boondoggle could leave the U.S. in a horrible situation, where once existed controllable governments are morphed into Theocracies driven to become enemies of the U.S.
Someday when you finally find a remedy for the (BDS) Bush Derangement Syndrome you suffer from, you need to study a map of the Middle East, and learn something. You might happen to notice that getting a foot hold in Iraq was a much better poistion to deal with Iran than a foothold in Afghanistan. So yes.....Obama is clearly the dunce in the room.
Posted by: Stewie at December 28, 2011 03:50 PM (JMsOK)
Been there and did that during Operation Ernest Will 1987-88. We reflagged all of those Kuwati tankers with US flags and and "escorted" them up and down the gulf and dared Iran to do something. They chose not to do anything rash with two US carrier battle groups parked off the Straits of Hormuz and eleventy bazillion F/18s flying overhead.
Posted by: Johnnyreb at December 28, 2011 07:32 PM (NNrYJ)
You betcha.
There were a few incidents during that time: an Iranian mine, an Iraqi Exocet missile, and an accidental shootdown of an Iranian civilian jetliner. But the US ensured the flow of oil from the Gulf even as Iran vowed to shut it off.
There are key differences in today's situation.
1) If Iran gets a nuke, their threat to shut off the Strait is far more serious.
2) Israel says it will not let Iran get a nuke.
3) Panetta says the US will not let Iran get a nuke. But the President today is Obama, not Reagan, and it's entirely unclear that he'll back Panetta's words with deeds.
4) Given that Iran knows that even if the US doesn't strike its nuclear program, Israel has to, it will soon find itself in the position of being at war with a Western ally (barring the impossible circumstance of Iran giving up its nuclear program voluntarily).
5) When the war starts, the calculations of deterrence go to hell in a hurry. Iran will be compelled to carry out its threat to close the Strait, to pressure the West to stop Israel's attacks.
6) It's unclear which Obama will choose to do: order the US Navy to keep the Strait open, or order Israel to leave Iran alone.
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 03:50 PM (Di3Im)
Posted by: bawney fwank, almost retired at December 28, 2011 03:50 PM (sHY5w)
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 03:51 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: dmandman at December 28, 2011 03:52 PM (WpVgB)
80/20
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 07:43 PM (QKKT0)
Sorry to tell you that Clarence only works the french fry machine. We are hoping that in the next 6-9 months he will be able to operate the drink machine.
Posted by: Clarence's Manager at Wendys at December 28, 2011 03:52 PM (uuOfy)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 28, 2011 03:52 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: toby928© at December 28, 2011 03:53 PM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 03:53 PM (3lndb)
Posted by: nickless at December 28, 2011 07:43 PM (MMC8r)
If I was prone to believing in conspiracy theories, I'd say that Obama is carrying out a Leftist plot to trigger a global shooting war between Islam and the West, so that both sides end up weakening each other to the point that World Socialism can take over.
But really, I think that he's going to achieve that result more by accident than by design.
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 03:53 PM (Di3Im)
Posted by: cicerokid at December 28, 2011 03:54 PM (boLoz)
Posted by: cicerokid at December 28, 2011 07:54 PM (boLoz)
You so funny. We just declare new Ramadan.
Posted by: Mullah X at December 28, 2011 03:57 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: Clarense at December 28, 2011 03:57 PM (/0HuL)
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 28, 2011 03:58 PM (4q5tP)
Odds that Clarance beleives in AGW;
99%-1%
I'll give him a 1% shot, because I doubt he knows what Anthroplogical means.
Posted by: Stewie at December 28, 2011 03:59 PM (JMsOK)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 28, 2011 03:59 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: MrCaniac at December 28, 2011 03:59 PM (uuOfy)
Posted by: toby928© at December 28, 2011 07:53 PM (GTbGH)
It was an accident. Maybe a particularly severe one and one that ought to have been very preventable, but an accident. Given what had happened to the USS Stark a year before, the idea of firing prematurely on an approaching aircraft seems understandable (but not justifiable). And the US apologized and paid compensation.
Of course, that incident is widely thought to be the motivation for the Iranians paying Qadaffi to blow up the Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie five months later. That incident was no accident, and if the Iranians were responsible, the US should have destroyed their regime at that time.
Posted by: stuiec at December 28, 2011 04:00 PM (Di3Im)
Posted by: Clarense at December 28, 2011 07:57 PM (/0HuL)
Make sure you zipper the tent closed before opening his cage.
Posted by: Fellow OWSer at December 28, 2011 04:01 PM (boLoz)
Posted by: Duke of Clarence at December 28, 2011 04:02 PM (rCEvh)
Yes, I'm sure it was. But were the Iranians sure? We are, after all, the Great Satan.
Posted by: toby928© at December 28, 2011 04:04 PM (GTbGH)
Posted by: EROWMER at December 28, 2011 04:05 PM (sIm3i)
Posted by: Clarense at December 28, 2011 04:05 PM (/0HuL)
Posted by: Errol at December 28, 2011 04:07 PM (vewos)
Posted by: Clarense at December 28, 2011 04:09 PM (/0HuL)
*fap fap fap fap fap fap fap*
Posted by: Clarence at December 28, 2011 04:09 PM (3lndb)
So, how do you suppose the Iranians would "close" the straits of Hormuz? Drop a 28 mile gate down?
If they attack any shipping, it is an act of war. Even if we suffer losses, we can build more ships, planes, missiles, etc. and come back later that day. Eventually, they are in ruins.
Posted by: Jimbo at December 28, 2011 04:13 PM (O3R/2)
She's gonna need one under that bus.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at December 28, 2011 04:24 PM (piMMO)
Let's hope so because, if he fails in his mission, I expect a full refund.
Posted by: George Soros at December 28, 2011 04:27 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: joseph connell at December 28, 2011 05:14 PM (xWUtx)
Posted by: Ron Paul at December 28, 2011 05:32 PM (dIHHd)
Sign me up!
Posted by: Bildo at December 28, 2011 05:33 PM (eToum)
Posted by: RMoney at December 28, 2011 05:48 PM (7MFxV)
Posted by: smittywood at December 28, 2011 05:50 PM (mHWpz)
McHale is going to close the strait? I don't think so. Close a bar, maybe. But a strait we want to keep open. No.
A decade ago they were closer to Gilligan so they're on the upswing.
Posted by: Dhinger McGee at December 28, 2011 06:18 PM (svwGR)
Posted by: Finding Your Way in a Wild New World ePub at December 28, 2011 06:25 PM (ZNTwe)
Posted by: Rich Rostrom at December 28, 2011 06:46 PM (3j6jL)
War is just an extension of politics - the ultimate extension. (paraphrase of Von Clausewitz)
sucking on the toes of your enemies and calling them 'friends' is no way to gain their respect and when the enemy is determined to bring about a grand hegemony that they will lead (see 'Twelveth Imam') then showing your ass to them will get you used as a cockholster
Once again Teh Obamasiah is setting America up for a screwing.
Posted by: chuck in st paul at December 29, 2011 06:28 AM (EhYdw)
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Posted by: Grey Fox at December 28, 2011 02:26 PM (sEvRn)