19 Yes, Robert, it's just called Sherlock.

20 try the Basil  Rathbone stuff from the Forties.  Silly and slow, but classic

lotsa fog, everyone over-dressed and stuffy, but timeless and clever.  Lots of arcane Brit cultural references that Americans don't catch

21 Oh, sure, here we are mere moments from getting our asses raptured right off the fuckin' planet and Ace, God bless him, rolls out a movie review.  Love you, man!  If I get raptured, you can have all my stuff!!!

22 less than two hours to go:  Game over, man.  We're all gonna die, man

23 Does it have any adult baby characters, extras, or subplots?

24 >>>Does it have any adult baby characters, extras, or subplots? When I watch non-adult baby programming (which is seldom), I just imagine everyone has diapers underneath their clothes. Try it, it's fun, and it don't cost nothin'!

25 >>>try the Basil Rathbone stuff from the Forties. Silly and slow, but classic I tried, glacially slow. They also did their own time-warp in bringing Holmes to the modern day, right? In WW2?

26 The 'were not gay' stuff did get tedious after a while.

Posted by: andycanuck at May 21, 2011 01:14 AM (Y1DZt)

It's been old everywhere for a long time. The only people that find it funny are gay guys anymore. Straight people don't look at 2 guys and think maybe gay, they don't really care. Gays are a tiny portion of any audience, except for flamboyant women singers, so why the hell are there so many jokes geared toward them? We don't get jokes for Armenian Jews in every show. It's supposed to be diverse but it's more diverting than diverse.

27 Robert,

No, it's just sherlock.

Maybe I should put that after a comma.

Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 01:17 AM (nj1bB)

Shoot, sorry, my bad.  It's me.  I'm tired.  And retarded.  Mostly tired.  Didn't notice the colon in the subject.  Yeah, that should have clued me in.

Derpderpderpderpderpderpderpderp.....

28 I haven't finished yet but based on a good opening I'm thinking it's generally good. Saw it last year. It's all good. Looking forward to the next season.

29 Or rather I guess I did notice the colon but it didn't click with me.  Cause I'm suffering severe mental retardation. 

hurrrrrrrr durrrrrrr!!!!!!

30 I wish Moffat would get over the socio-political posturing, but at least he's not as bad as Russel Davies who pushed it so hard he made every supporting character relationship mixed race. Not that I have a problem with it, but after eight or so such relationships during his few years with Dr. Who, I felt like I was being beaten over the head with something.  Not sure what, really.

31 I just started watching this ten minutes ago. Heh. I imagine we'll get another 1,000 words for every 10 minutes.

32 They also did their own time-warp in bringing Holmes to the modern day, right? In WW2?

Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 01:24 AM (nj1bB)

Yes, in a few films. He even comes to America in one. But Basil Rathbone is the best and easily the best actor to play the role. Everyone is just coping him to some extent. Brett was the best since.

33 What I really liked about the show is that the creators, Steve Moffatt (current run of Doctor Who, Coupling) and Mark Gatiss (The League of Gentlemen), are huge Sherlock Holmes fans.  If you listen to the commentaries on the Blu-rays, they have encyclopedic knowledge of Holmes lore, quickly able to references specific story elements from the novels and films down to the exact line.  So they are brilliantly able to update the setting while still retaining the essence of the stories.

I particularly like the way they portray Sherlock.  In the Victorian age, he is merely "eccentric."  But here, all of the cops except Lestrade view him as a possible threat.  One cop calls him a psychopath, which Sherlock quickly corrects him that he is "high-functioning sociopath."  The same cop points out that one day they expect to find a body, only this time Sherlock will be responsible.  He is a bit dangerous, since he is without emotion except when the game is afoot.  As for the performance, give him a chance.  I really liked what he did with the role (and think he could have made an excellent Doctor, since there is a real connection between the two roles).

Even more brilliant is Watson in this series.  They move away from the stereotypical portrayal that has developed over the years as a bit of an oaf and back to the original version of an ex-soldier/doctor who is quite capable and, like Sherlock, is finally able to feel alive when there is risk and danger.  Plus, Freeman is great in anything.

34 They also did their own time-warp in bringing Holmes to the modern day, right? In WW2?

Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 01:24 AM (nj1bB)

Yes, as I recall some were set during WWII while others were set in the late 1800s that Conan Doyle wrote in. 

The WWII ones were part of the 'war effort' but didn't work well, and Rathbone took a hike

35 Today signals the total resignation of the anti war movement. They and the cock suckers they voted for, just let the War Powers Act die. Never let them forget that on "their" watch, Presidents now have the right to invade other countries for however long, for no fucking reason they have to justify. Fuck the left.

36 As a *huge* fan of the original stories, and Jeremy Brett's work, I have to say I was relieved to watch and ADORE this series!

Moffat, especially if you listen to the director's commentary on DVD/Bluray, not only adores this material, he knows it quite well, and it shows.  He finds a way to bring a lot of the tidbits from the original time period into modern times - like Sherlock sending messages by telegraph becoming text messages instead.

I was worried about it being PC, but I was won over early on in the 1st episode when Sherlock explains that he met Mrs. Hudson because of her husband being on death row in Florida.  Watson says "So, you stopped him from being executed?" and Sherlock smirks, "Oh, no, I ensured it!"

*SWOON*

Sherlock really isn't supposed to be all that likeable in his personal habits and mannerisms, and Cumberbatch is doing an excellent job, IMHO.

Second episode is kind of weak, but the third? WHOO BOY, and the ending... well... it's fun.

37 Oh I forgot to add, Obama sucks cock.

38 And from Wiki I see that the series' second season of three more episodes is in production with the titles made public: A Scandal In Belgravia; The Hounds Of Baskerville; and The Reichenbach Fall.

And Spoiler Alert, the Wiki episode descriptions, about mid-page, even though brief contain spoilers.

And there are alot of reviews at the page-bottom links that I think I read a few of when it first aired here but I can't recall their content for spoilers. They're probably okay because they are mainly newspaper reviews that would be keeping spoilers to a minimum or nonexistent.

39 If Moffat was really into diversity, he'd have some adult babies.  That's what I think.

40 ^{30 I wish Moffat would get over the socio-political posturing, but at least he's not as bad as Russel Davies who pushed it so hard he made every supporting character relationship mixed race. Not that I have a problem with it, but after eight or so such relationships during his few years with the show, I felt like I was being beaten over the head with something.  Not sure what, really.}

^{Posted by: rdbrewer at May 21, 2011 01:27 AM (/9ciG)}

Davies problem is that every character is banging every other character,mixed race or not. On Torchwood it is impossible to keep up with who is screwing who. I think Jack has nailed everyone but Rhys, and Gwen did him and the rest.

41 Posted by: Synnerman at May 21, 2011 01:32 AM (Y3Ssi)

Yes, the Watson in the new show is much more like the Watson in Conan Doyle's writing.  That fat goof who played him in the Rathbone films was a doddering old dimwit needed everything explained to him--which Holmes does, which slows the pace of the films to a crawl

42 I just saw the on-screen-text presentation of his deductions. It's cute and saves time, because now he doesn't have to explain every single minor deduction to LaStraade or Watson in dialogue (and they're spared the constant "How could you possibly know that?" schtick). Speeds it up.

43 I was over in the UK for work last year when this came out on BBC.
What a great series, hope it continues.  Hope to see it hit BBCAmerica or whatever so we could see it here in the US

44 24 >>>Does it have any adult baby characters, extras, or subplots?

When I watch non-adult baby programming (which is seldom), I just imagine everyone has diapers underneath their clothes.

Try it, it's fun, and it don't cost nothin'!

Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 01:23 AM (nj1bB)

It does help make 24 a little more plausible.

45 Grover - it's been over here on PBS a few months back (plus video releases).

46 > 40 ... On Torchwood it is impossible to keep up with who is screwing who. I gave up on Torchwood after 4 episodes after each plot boiled down to Man Messing With Stuff Best Not Messed With. I appreciate how easy it is to do Monster of the Week plots but it's lazy and annoying.

47 seriously, anyone who has hbo should just cancel it and get Netflix. It's streaming on Netflix right now.

48

Are there more than 3 episodes?

I thought the not-gay bits referred to how gay Jeremy Brett seemed half the time.  The lipstick and shoe-polish hair color were too obvious.

The 40's Watson was too much a buffoon.

 

 

49 It does help make 24 a little more plausible.
Especially Garofalo's character.

50 Second episode is kind of weak, but the third? WHOO BOY, and the ending... well... it's fun.

The problem with the second episode is: 1.) not by Moffat & Gatiss, so it lacks the sharp wit and cleverness of their writing; 2.) relies too much on the action side of things to move the story along; 3.) the case itself just isn't that interesting.

But the third episode is fantastic, able to cram multiple Holmes stories into one interlocking case with a slam-bang ending that I won't spoil for the lurkers out there (and Ace).

51 Holy crap!  I'm hooked!  20 minutes into the first episode (clever - a study in "pink") and I'm in hook, line and sinker.

I like Sherlock.

And as someone else mentioned above, Watson is more like Conan Doyle's Watson.  I love their meeting in a lab just as Holmes and Watson did in the books..  Holmes beating the dead corpse was a nice touch.

52 Interesting this came up, because Edward Hardwicke just died.  He played opposite Jeremy Brett.  My favorite Holmes and Watson ever.

53 What makes Holmes historically interesting is that the Victorians were trying to deal with 'modern urban crime' as a new social factor in the sprawling industrial cities--especially London

Life had been lived almost entirely among acquaintances, but the new era created a life where most interaction was between strangers.  One result was crime committed by complete strangers; before it was personal nearly all crimes were obvious and fairly easy to solve.

The complexity of society created crimes which were genuinely puzzling--hence, as Brit Twats say, the need for a Mastermind to solve these new threatening phenomena

54 41 Posted by: Synnerman at May 21, 2011 01:32 AM (Y3Ssi)

Yes, the Watson in the new show is much more like the Watson in Conan Doyle's writing.  That fat goof who played him in the Rathbone films was a doddering old dimwit needed everything explained to him--which Holmes does, which slows the pace of the films to a crawl

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 01:39 AM (UqKQV)

Wasn't that Jude Law too in the movie with Downey?  His Watson was clearly intelligent and capable in his own right.  Much more similar to the source material.

55

Are there more than 3 episodes?

Nope, just 3 90-minute episodes (it was originally going to be a series of 60-minute episodes, but they shot the first one and it didn't work, so they revamped it into the current format. The original 60-minute pilot of the first episode is on the Blu-ray, featuring some different supporting actors and settings).

56 It figures that Ace would be a Holmes fan.

Well, New York City has a chapter of the Baker Street Irregulars (FDR was a member, as was Churchill!); you can also join the less-exalted Priory Scholars and hoist a brew.

I think, though, that the Morons should start a "Ragged Street Arabs" chapter. Boy, that's another term They don't let you use any more.

And Rathbone's ultimate Holmes movie was The Hound of the Baskervilles (q.v.), very true to the Conan Doyle story and full of fog and menace on the moors. But I must say, I did not understand his bizarre hairstyle in the modern, WWII movies.

57 43 What a great series, hope it continues. Hope to see it hit BBCAmerica or whatever so we could see it here in the US
_________

That'll never happen. It would cut into their precious Star Trek: The Next Generation rerun time.

(not that I'm bitter or anything)

58 Speeds it up.

Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 01:39 AM (nj1bB)

It's gold, ace, pure gold.  I almost jumped out of my seat when I saw them using that device.  Yelled at the TV, but nice words this time.

It's perfect because of the time it saves and how well it fits with the way Holmes mind works.  You can keep up with the character, and not have to go back and re-read or re-watch what he said /did

59 Yes, the Watson in the new show is much more like the Watson in Conan Doyle's writing.  That fat goof who played him in the Rathbone films was a doddering old dimwit needed everything explained to him--which Holmes does, which slows the pace of the films to a crawl

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 01:39 AM (UqKQV)

Yeah, Nigel Bruce was just awful. Are you kidding? Turning Watson into comic relief for the films is brilliant. They didn't pick Martin Freeman by accident. The same way nobody plays Holmes as written either. They all play off Basil Rathbone's Holmes. Now I don't agree with completely tossing the books out the way they did for the Downey films but nobody really plays it like the books.  You have to explain things somehow on film, people can just read it in the books.

60 I liked Downey overall, BUT his version of Holmes is filthy, in contradiction to The Master's "catlike love of personal cleanliness." He was always shaven and wearing clean linen, even on the moors. But he had no use for housekeeping.

Another Holmes gem: Robert Stephens in Billy Wilder's "personal valentine to my boyhood hero," The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. Well worth seeing, if you want Wilder's take on the sleuth.

61 osted by: buzzion at May 21, 2011 01:46 AM (oVQFe)

yes, but the problem with putting those two actors in those two roles was that the movie then becomes mostly about Downey doing his Quirky Downey Thing and Law doing his Jude Whatever Thing.

 They're each playing themselves playing their characters, IYKWIM

62 What a shame about Hardwicke. RIP.

I can't recall where, but I'd read before that Hardwicke replaced David Burke as Watson because they were good friends and Burke suggested Hardwicke as his replacement because a prior commitment meant Burke couldn't return for the third season. (I see Wiki has Burke leaving to spend time with his wife and newborn child.) He then gave Hardwicke lessons in playing Burke playing Watson to help him with the casting guys.

63 I gave up on Torchwood after 4 episodes after each plot boiled down to Man Messing With Stuff Best Not Messed With.

I would ignore seasons one and two of Torchwood, but you should give the 3rd "season" (it was actually a five episode miniseries), Children of Earth, a look.  I thought it was clever and creepy.  By doing one large, epic story, it seemed to keep Davies focused on keeping momentum for the story, rather than how to quickly press the reset button at the end of the episode.  That is why I am looking forward to Torchwood's move to the US on Starz in July.  The fourth season, Miracle Day, will keep the same format as CoE, only it will be ten episodes instead of five and feature a lot of American actors, including Bill Pullman, alongside the main cast.

64 Posted by: Rocks at May 21, 2011 01:49 AM (th0op)

Can't agree.  No comic relief needed.  Explaining everything to Watson slows the films way too much.  The device in the new show of printing Holmes' thoughts on screen takes away that entire need for a dummy to explain things to. 

Watson can become what Conan Doyle intended:  A brake on Holmes' mental instability and 'substance abuse'--a bridge from the 'normal' reader to the abnormal brilliant Holmes

Comic relief was an irritating diversion that usually was not funny

65 >>>Life had been lived almost entirely among acquaintances, but the new era created a life where most interaction was between strangers. One result was crime committed by complete strangers; before it was personal nearly all crimes were obvious and fairly easy to solve. Holmes had an interesting observation about this. Some murder had a bizarre set of odd circumstances, and Watson said something like, "It's baffling, it's unsolvable." And Holmes said: "No, a man being stabbed for his wallet and left to street to die is baffling, as there is nothing unique about the crime; it could be anyone; ten thousand thugs could have done it. This crime is *interesting*, and that's what makes it solvable."

66 Or he said "This crime is not baffling, it is merely interesting, and there's a large difference." Something like that. It's an in-series recognition of the fact that Holmes doesn't get the "boring" cases which actually are a hell of a lot harder to solve than the "interesting" ones. If a random street-level drug dealer gets killed with no witnesses, cops know there's a low chance of solving it. Too many people have a simple motive (economic interest). There's nothing that gives away the killer. A killer gives himself away by acting by a specific means for a specific purpose. Take that away, and make it a common method of killing for an all too common purpose, and what do you have? An unsolvable case.

67 46
_{^{> 40 ... On Torchwood it is impossible to keep up with who is screwing who.}}

I gave up on Torchwood after 4 episodes after each plot boiled down to Man Messing With Stuff Best Not Messed With.

I appreciate how easy it is to do Monster of the Week plots but it's lazy and annoying.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 21, 2011 01:42 AM (KE+Ya)

You missed the "death of the week" for all the main characters. They killed all of them off except for Gwen and Jack. That shows no effort for character development.

68

It's hard for us to realize how shocking it must be for the poor Brits that Watson has a pistol and knows how to use it.

 

69 Too late for me now, I was just going to bed when I saw Ace's new post here that seduced me from my slumbers, so I'm whacked. See you 'tomorrow' leaving you with, "But the Ewok did not bark in the night."

70 Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 02:00 AM (nj1bB)

One of the best books about England is "The World We Have Lost:  England Before the Industrial Ago", by Peter Laslett

Most people lived their entire lives in villages of 300-500 people, and even in the cities there were clearly-defined districts not much larger than that.  Everyone knew almost everyone, by sight or reputation.  Hence, not much crime--and if your gold chain is missing and the dude down the lane suddenly gained a new gold chain, the crime is solved

In London by the late 1800s, most of that was gone:  Most interaction was with strangers, and crimes could be perpetrated by invisible agents.  Hence the fascination with Jack the Ripper.

Holmes was so popular because he was the manufactured fictional answer to the real Jack the Ripper and the reality of complex crimes where the motives were sometimes not apparent and the criminal could disappear into a city of nearly a million.

The Victorians created the rules & regulations for modern life.  They greatly valued order, and Holmes brought a sense of Order as well as a complex mind to solve complex puzzles

71 ....Industrial Age  ( no Ago )

72 I just started reading the Sherlock Holmes stories and Holmes does that exact thing with Watson's brother in the first story. He's incredibly more observant than you could even imagine.

73 I don't want to give others spoilers but is this guy Watson is meeting with Mycroft or is he Moriarity? Seems like the latter but I think it should have been the former.

74 I guess it's moriarity. This is good. "I suppose I'm what he'd call an *arch* enemy. He does love to be dramatic." "Well thank god you're above all that."

75

mycroft.

76 Could be an amalgam, both Mycroft and Moriarity, both brother working for secret service AND arch-enemy/criminal.

77 okay thanks.

78 Mycroft as a high-ranking civil servant in a London covered with CCTVs

nice,,,,,,

79 I gotta tell ya this series is damn good.

80

well now i'm confused actually

81 Now I sort of want it to be both moriarity and mycroft, because the CCTV thing works well for both.

82 Most people lived their entire lives in villages of 300-500 people, and even in the cities there were clearly-defined districts not much larger than that.  Everyone knew almost everyone, by sight or reputation.  Hence, not much crime--and if your gold chain is missing and the dude down the lane suddenly gained a new gold chain, the crime is solved

In London by the late 1800s, most of that was gone:  Most interaction was with strangers, and crimes could be perpetrated by invisible agents.  Hence the fascination with Jack the Ripper.

Holmes was so popular because he was the manufactured fictional answer to the real Jack the Ripper and the reality of complex crimes where the motives were sometimes not apparent and the criminal could disappear into a city of nearly a million.

This is ridiculous. London was a large city, with rampant crime for 100s of years before the 18th century. Have you read Dickens? Shakespeare?

The Victorians created the rules & regulations for modern life.  They greatly valued order, and Holmes brought a sense of Order as well as a complex mind to solve complex puzzles

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 02:10 AM (UqKQV)

This is the TV/Film version of Holmes derived from Rathbone, that isn't the Holmes of the stories. The Holmes of the books was a mess and a bit crazy. His methods, to the people of the time, were totally outlandish.

83 i just was watching them all, finished the third and what do i see on AoSHQ? a thread about it. may the world is going to end.

84 I gotta tell ya this series is damn good. Posted by: ace at May 21, 2011 02:20 AM (nj1bB

Yep.  The stories had to be modernized and they are, and the 'thoughts on screen' makes it that much better.  Holmes on the internet with his govt Big Brother following him on CCTV.   Can't rely on fog and horse carriages.

Supposedly there are already over ten thousand CCTV cameras in England....

85 19th century.

86 QUESTION:

Are they basing the episodes on actual Holmes adventures or are they unique mysteries?

87 Since there are holmes fans here, I should recommend the List of Seven: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_List_of_Seven It's about Arthur Conan Doyle who *is* the Watson character, to a character who clearly inspired him to invent sherlock holmes. So it's a Holmes/Watson pastiche, except it's Doyle and his "inspiration for Holmes." It's a page-turner, fun pulp. The sequel is horrendous. Don't waste time on that.

88 >>>Are they basing the episodes on actual Holmes adventures or are they unique mysteries? I think they're mostly lightly adapted holmes adventures. Based on what a commenter said upthread it seems sometimes they mix two stories together.

89 Are they basing the episodes on actual Holmes adventures or are they unique mysteries?

Based on the actual stories.

90 Thanks ace. Watching the unaired pilot right now, on your recommendation. I just bought a Kindle and the Holmes stories are free and easy to read quickly, so it should be fun to watch this sort of alongside that.

91 Are there any diaper-rape capers?

92 His methods, to the people of the time, were totally outlandish.

Posted by: Rocks at May 21, 2011 02:22 AM (th0op)

You say potato, I say po-TAH-to.  The concept of the brilliant but slightly mad genius was already there in literature--and was there in fact in the person of various eccentric inventors

 Conan Doyle based Holmes on a professor of medicine in Edinburgh.  The reader would not be expected to follow Holmes' logic, but be able to appreciate the fact that it brought results.  How many people in 1891 understood the internal combustion engine?

Holmes solved crimes; justice was served; some sense of order prevailed.

His methods were incomprehensible to Conan Doyle's middle-class and upper middle class readers of the time, but they didn't expect to follow the workings of Holmes' mind.  They could, however, appreciate that those methods worked.

The 'genius of science' in the form of various inventors was widely appreciated and respected.  People did not understand electricity but they wanted in in their homes.

93

Are there any diaper-rape capers?

i'll just say the shit hits the fan

94 I think as the series goes this character will take on the alias of James Moriarity. He's too sinister to waste as the brother.

95 Yeah he's gotta become Moriarity.

96 I doubt it would be PC, but it would be cool if they kept the "street Arabs", Holmes eyes and ears of London.

97 I've seen a lot of "Meet a Mysterious Man in a Remote Location" scenes and that one really crackled and popped.

98 Arab just was used to mean "urchin" though -- in slang, an "Arab" was any homeless boy of any race.

99

There's a good twist on Watson's brother.

The night I finished reading the complete stories, I was staying in my parents' house alone for the first time.  I woke up in the middle of the night hearing "This is the police, we know you're in there", etc. loudly on a bull horn.  Complete freak out ensued.  When I got the nerve to go out an hour later, saw one cop car leaving on the next block.

 

100

I doubt it would be PC, but it would be cool if they kept the "street Arabs", Holmes eyes and ears of London.

nah, they're the ones commiting the crimes in London now. also i denounce myself

101 Does Holmes indulge in a 7 percent solution?

102 The main stories are altered, but the framework is often the same. For example, the first episode A Study in Pink is based on A Study in Scarlet.  They take a detail like the word "Rache" being written on the floor (in the book, it was German for revenge, while Sherlock realizes it was the name Rachel; the opposite of what happens in the book).

The 2nd one is based loosely on The Dancing Men, and the 3rd is based on a whole bunch of them.

103 definition-- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/street+Arab

104 synnerman, yeah, I thought I remembered it was the opposite, rache/rachel.

105 yeah, 'Arab' back then was essentially the same as 'wog' later:  A non-Euro hobo-oriented Person of the Streets

106 I think as the series goes this character will take on the alias of James Moriarity. He's too sinister to waste as the brother.

I won't spoil anything about if Moriarty appears or not for you, but an interesting note is that the actor playing Mycroft is Mark Gatiss, the co-creator of Sherlock.

107 I don't think Arab even means non-Euro. I think it just meant urchin in this context. When holmes was served by "arabs," they were mostly just homeless english boys like oliver twist.

108 Moriarity starts with 'M'

Mycroft starts with   'M'

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

109 an "araber" is an old term for peddler, usually with a horse-drawn cart, and included the boys who worked for him--scouting for customers and stuff to buy/steal

yes, the boys could be English but arabers themselves were usually non-Euros

110 99 Arab just was used to mean "urchin" though -- in slang, an "Arab" was any homeless boy of any race.

I did not know that. I guess my mind was set on modern London. Thanks for the knowledge.

And yes, the conversion from the scratches on the pocket-watch to that on the phone...really really clever. Somebody really put some thought into this.

111 Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 02:32 AM (UqKQV)

Okay, I don't know what any of that has to do with Holmes bringing a sense of order to Victorian England which had only just developed crime somehow but in 1891 a lot of people would have understood the internal combustion engine as it's variation on steam engines which had been wide spread use for decades.

112

Conan Doyle based Holmes on a professor of medicine in Edinburgh.  

 There was a short series several years ago on Dr. Bell that included Doyle's bits.

IIRC it was like Morse--too many bodies dropping.

It's ironic (and must have been weird for his contemporary readers) that Doyle publicly dabbled in spiritualism after creating Holmes.

 

113 >>>It's ironic (and must have been weird for his contemporary readers) that Doyle publicly dabbled in spiritualism after creating Holmes. after his son died in war. It is very ironic because Holmes is a perfect rationalist and so is his world. There is no intrusion of Doyle's actual beliefs into this world-- odd. Wouldn't that be natural? I have to think that Hollywood is always cursing that he didn't get Holmes involved in the supernatural because they always want to seem to pull him there, but then have to Scooby Doo it.

114 Posted by: Rocks at May 21, 2011 02:46 AM (th0op)

Victorian England was very concerned with crime--and order--as you can see from all the laws they passed throughout the 19th Century.  They created penitentiaries to house this new type of criminal, trying to mix religion and practical measures to 'reform' people.

It is my opinion that the popularity of Holmes was at least partly due to the fear of crime, including the first sensationalized serial killer, and the need for someone to match wits with and defeat people like this.  They wanted there to be one or more real Holmes.

The Victorian sense of order was already there--as was their demand for social order in the rapidly-increasing middle class in the cities.  They wanted safety and security as well as prosperity--and believed the latter depended on the first two.

Many books on this, there are........

115 Agree with 12th Monkey.  Jeremy Brett was the definitive Holmes, and the canon never needs to be updated again.

116 My favorite Moriarty is the one from ST:TNG, Daniel Davis.   His Moriarty really projected that super-intelligent, anti-Holmes vibe.  You got a strong sense he could defeat Holmes.  It would have been nice to see him in a real Holmes flick.

117 It is very ironic because Holmes is a perfect rationalist and so is his world. There is no intrusion of Doyle's actual beliefs into this world-- odd. Wouldn't that be natural?

It is also amazing that he wrote the stories over a 34 year period, yet there isn't a really a change in tone or texture of the later works from the earlier.

BTW, since you enjoy both Moffat's Doctor Who and Sherlock, you really should look up his version of Jekyll from a few years ago, which takes the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde story and moves it into the modern day.  It is a fantastic, surprisingly epic, 6 episode miniseries and worth your time.

118 Did the world end yet?

119 Moriarity was Jack the Ripper...........  ( or vice versa )

120 I'll check that out. I added that to my queue without even realizing it was moffat. now that i know it's him I'll watch it. Thanks.

121

 but then have to Scooby Doo it

Like the Hound of the Baskervilles and the Speckled Band?

Forgot about his son.  One of the last stories was cheerleading for WW I.

 

122 >>>Like the Hound of the Baskervilles and the Speckled Band right, but every "new" holmes I read or movie I see always has a supernatural element. I can almost hear their teeth gnashing that they can't just go ahead and make it a ghost.

123

I can almost hear their teeth gnashing that they can't just go ahead and make it a ghost.

ace, surely you don't believe that people could be the source of such evil? the TEA Party hadn't been established yet, meaning the perp had to be supernatural.

124 Victorian England which had only just developed crime somehow

That's skimming very, very lightly over sixty years of the development of an increasingly complex factor--one that was crucial in the new industrial cities.

Crime came from 'social decomposition' , which ruined the moral fiber of people--which could be restored by various measures, including the new inventions of prisons and reformatories. 

Holmes was Batman, without the fancy car......

125

Just realized it's been 30 years since I read the stories the first time (and about 20 since the last time).  I may kick off at any moment.

126

The Metropolitan Police was started in 1829 by (Tory) Home Secretary Sir Robert Peel, hence "bobbies."  "Pigs" came about after someone heard his name as Squeel.

Later, as Prime Minister, Peel repealed the Corn Laws (tariff on wheat) which sent British agriculture, and rural life, and the rich landowners of his own party into a long decline.

Here endeth the history lesson.

 

127 seemless seamless

128

Blazing in blind..I say...Ricki Lee Jones

 

Last Chance Texeco....and ...back under the car to change the oil....

129 Many books on this, there are........

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 02:53 AM (UqKQV)

Yes, mostly written by the type of people who would describe Obama as a transformational figure. What you describe is why people today watch shows like Law and Order. It has nothing to do with Holme's appeal to the masses of Victorian England. They certainly weren't yearning for order. They lived in the most ordered, stratified countries that ever existed. One which totally locked you into your lot in life from birth for most people, especially the poor. They were yearning for disorder and would get it in abundance very soon after. Holmes appeal to them was his eccentricity and the idea his abilities meant that maybe you didn't go to jail based on who you weren't or avoid it because of who you were. They didn't want order, they wanted a new order and that is what Holmes represented. Someone recognized for his abilities despite being a vain, petulant, selfish, crazy child. The Law, the Order of the time, were not heroes but useless and crawled to him and he played with them like the other mice, the criminals, and he was rewarded for it. 

Holmes popularity in many ways must have pained Doyle. For Doyle Watson was supposed to be the real hero of the story, the one who recorded these things and brought order out of the chaos that is Holmes. It's why Doyle tried to kill Holmes off and write serious things. Doyle created a monster, and not solely based on Bell either, and it ate him alive.

130 The Metropolitan Police was started in 1829 by (Tory) Home Secretary Sir Robert Peel, hence "bobbies."  "Pigs" came about after someone heard his name as Squeel.

Interestingly, since we are talking about famous pre-Industrial English authors, the forerunner to the British police was created about a seventy five years earlier by Tom Jones author Henry Fielding and his (blind) brother, called the Bow Street Runners. There was a BBC show called City of Vice that chronicled the creation, with Ian McDiarmid (the Emperor in Star Wars) as Henry Fielding.

131 That's skimming very, very lightly over sixty years of the development of an increasingly complex factor--one that was crucial in the new industrial cities.

Crime came from 'social decomposition' , which ruined the moral fiber of people--which could be restored by various measures, including the new inventions of prisons and reformatories. 

Holmes was Batman, without the fancy car......

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 03:07 AM (UqKQV)

Yeah, that's revisionist, progressive claptrap. Crime came then from the same stuff it does now, people deciding abiding by the law conflicts with them getting what they want. Crime was nothing new to London at the beginning of the 19th century, never mind the end. Holmes wasn't trying to determine which starving wretch stole a loaf of bread.  Holmes is a sort of Batman, one crazy brilliant SOB. Batman doesn't have some of the most crazy, outlandish villains ever for no reason. If they weren't that way they would pale in comparison to him.

132

OH,

crime?

Home deporting of various large caliber GUN types, has become very common even in states such as CAlifornia which has the MOST stringent type regs...short of CHINA of gun control...so why you ask are such LARGE concentrations of such LARGE caliber guns/rifles/assault/ type weapons concentrating in such an apparent grovvyy/green/ lib sate with the most grovvy green moonbeam twice over bath-house splashing fun-boy in charge.....of his own private IDAHO..bath-house..(his focus don't cha know!)  HHHmmmm....sounds like post AAARRRRRnnnold back  lash

 

or is that front....lash

film at ....11 

133 I was going on and on about this about 4 months ago and everyone ignored me but Andycannuck.  It's a great series.  It's like 3  90 minute movies. And the "I'm not gay" schtick is only in the first episode and it is brief.  I like the fast pace effect they put on it.  Modern London looks great.

If you rent the dvd, they have the pilot which is a 60 minute version of episode one. It's not better or worse than the first episode. It is interesting and worth watching if you are a film aficionado.

Another 3 episodes are coming out late summer.  The actor that plays Sherlock is very good.  There are also some great one liners.

"Where would I be without my blogger!"

134
And I liked episode 2.   I like all the assassins and poor Dr. Watson trying to get his rocks off.  

135
Benedict Cumberbatch is in the remake of  Tinker, Tailor... can't wait to see that, too.

I don't like how they imply that Sherlock is a high functioning sociopath.  A bit autistic maybe, but not a sociopath.  Another reason why I liked episode two, is that they weren't afraid to portray the bad guys as deserving death.  In UK crime shows, they usually want the murderer to be redeemable or a victim of some sort of childhood abuse. I hate that phony shit.  Sherlock and John don't have that hang up.

136 Holmes??   Oh, the 'actor' !  yeah, I've 'heard' af him.

137 blah.  of.

138 Good Morning Rons and ronettes, It's another beautiful day in the worlds finest country and we are all here. I am is disbelief that the apocolypse did not happen. Unfortunatly, now I have to explain killing all of my neighbors that have pissed my off and imprisoning their women. Darn it.

139 Unfortunatly, now I have to explain killing all of my neighbors that have pissed my off and imprisoning their women. Darn it.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 21, 2011 07:35 AM (NtTkA)

The women just might not press charges.

140 Hold on, I have to remove some ball gags, I'll ask.

141 Wait...you prevented a whole neighborhood of women from talking?!  You are so hosed....

142 145, I'll be damn, your right, I'm free and they are rich. God bless life insurance.

143 147, Their long term financial windfall seems to have superceded the temporary need for useless praddling.

144 Yeah, makes sense.  Now they can talk about what they're going to buy.

So....are we the only two up? 

145 Prattling, damn it sounded like two ds in my head.

146 I think so, there seemed to be some extended drinking last night. I promised my youngest I would take her out for breakfast before her big T-ball game. Then the Saturday chores begin. It's going to be a nice day. High of 84. You got a big day planned?

147 Are we going to get a new thread or is this it for today?

148 Who knows. I guess it will be here when it gets here and not one minute before. I did get an opportunity to read a good post on AT about the Barky and the Jew story.

149 I'm having surgery on Tues. so I need to run some last minute errands.  Then tonight I'm picking my sister up from the airport.

T-ball is so friggin' funny to watch.  I remember many moons ago coaching my daughter's t-ball team.  Her first time at bat she hits the ball and runs to 3rd.  She batted right handed so she figured 3rd base was the closest one to her. 

150 Two Herman Cain links:

Herman Cain on Obama’s Anti-Israel Plan: “I’d Tell the World, If You Mess With Israel, You Mess With the United States” (Video)
I know some here like Special K, but I don't see the appeal:
Krauthammer Says Herman Cain Candidacy Is “Just Entertainment”

151 Yeah, it's alot of fun. I have always been so competitive that I forgot there was a game that is supposed to be fun. They are helping me see that.

152 155, Big Surgery or little surgery?

153 I'm having surgery on Tues. so I need to run some last minute errands.  Then tonight I'm picking my sister up from the airport.


Hey, hubby is having surgery on Tues, too.  What are you having fixed?  We will keep you in our prayers.

154 Yeah, it's alot of fun. I have always been so competitive that I forgot there was a game that is supposed to be fun. They are helping me see that.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 21, 2011 07:56 AM (NtTkA)

Enjoy it....it's gone so quickly.

155 Time to shower and go to the Greasy spoon. You ladies keep Vic entertained until the new thread come up, Later.

156
T-ball is so friggin' funny to watch.





I hate t-ball.  The parents are asshole.  So are half the coaches.  It is supposed to be fun.

Last weekend, my son's coached forced them off first (go to dug out) when kid was 'out'.  That is not how it is played.  Everyone bats.  Everyone runs the bases.  I told the coach that (I coached t-ball for years) and the other team's parents picked up bitch.  Then, when their precious, perfect (wearing designer helmets) kids were up, they stayed on base after they were out.

Then after the last batter, the other team's parents rushed the field saying, 'You won!'  'You Won!'

I looked at my kid and told him the truth, 'They don't keep score.  Everyone bats, everyone runs.  They are just trying to make their kids happy.'

157 Hey, hubby is having surgery on Tues, too.  What are you having fixed?  We will keep you in our prayers.

Posted by: momma at May 21, 2011 07:57 AM (penCf)

Thanks momma!  I'm getting a new bionic right hip. 

Doc really didn't want to do it because I'm 'too young' for a new hip and he's worried I'll outlive the new one.  But it's bone one bone because of a genetic bone defect that led to severe osteoarthritis.  There is no other option.

I'll say a prayer for your hubby.  Nothing serious I hope?

158 Time to shower and go to the Greasy spoon

Bring me back some hash browns and a sausage biscuit.

159 Then, when their precious, perfect (wearing designer helmets) kids were up, they stayed on base after they were out.

Ooooh, I don't think so!  WTF?  Either everyone stays or everyone goes but not one rule for one team and another for the other team.  It's fuckin' T-ball.

160 Doc really didn't want to do it because I'm 'too young' for a new hip and he's worried I'll outlive the new one.


They only last 10 - 15 years anyway, so even if you wait a few years, you'll outlive the new one.

Hubby is having shoulder surgery, but it isn't that big of a deal. 

Do you have all the books, movies, junk food etc ready for your healing time?

The best part about surgery is going to the gift shop.  I love hospital gift shops.

161 My m.i.l just got one. She's healing well. She is 72. My mom just got a new knee, she is struggling. I guess that stuff is all about sticking to your Physical Terrorist rountine. Good luck on that. You too Momma. I think the only thing worse that being sick or injured is having some one you love sick or injured.

162 It's fuckin' T-ball.

Posted by: Tami at May 21, 2011 08:06 AM (VuLos)

I tried to tell them.  The sad thing is that the kids on our team that were out were the very tiny, mentally challenged little girls.  Broke my fucking heart. Told hubby that if he didn't insist the kids stay on first, I would.  He offered to be 1st base coach next game

163 164, This is a real southern greasy spoon, Bisquits and suasage gravy with a side of fresh sliced tomatos. The Daughter is staring daggars through me. Gotta go

164 They only last 10 - 15 years anyway, so even if you wait a few years, you'll outlive the new one.

They can last longer than 15 years but also now, they can replace 'parts' and not the whole hip if they have to.

My mom just got a new knee, she is struggling. I guess that stuff is all about sticking to your Physical Terrorist rountine.

Knees are MUCH harder to rehab than hips...much harder.  And the continued PT for a knee is critical.

165 Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 21, 2011 08:06 AM (NtTkA)


Thanks.  My mom has fake knee and hip.  The knee was 10 times worse when it came to healing. 

166 This is a real southern greasy spoon,

LOL, I guess that means grits instead of hash browns

167 My local radio station keeps playing, 'It's the end of the world as we know it', after every commercial break. HA!

168

dam, I missed another good tv thread

169 they can replace 'parts' and not the whole hip if they have to.



Ooh, that is cool.  I just remember the docs telling mom she'd probably need 2 or 3 of them because she is a stubborn old bat that will outlive us all (thank the Lord).

170

I tried to tell them.  The sad thing is that the kids on our team that were out were the very tiny, mentally challenged little girls.  Broke my fucking heart. Told hubby that if he didn't insist the kids stay on first, I would.  He offered to be 1st base coach next game

Posted by: momma at May 21, 2011 08:08 AM (penCf)

What assholes.  The Sicilian in me would have been in someone's face on that!

My husband has done a lot of coaching for our two kids as they were growing up and he's NEVER been an asshole about it.  He's very competitive but not to the point of humiliating any of his players or the other team's.  But we ran into our share of other coaches/parents that were.

171
Maybe this afternoon I will DL the 1975 movie The Adventures Of Sherlock Holmes' Smarter Brother with Gene Wilder and Madeline Khan and Brian Dennehy.

172 Ooh, during BO's weekly radio address, he pulls out the communist meme when pusing for No Child Left Behind reform:

"We need to reward the reforms that are driven not by Washington, but by principals and teachers and parents. That's how we'll make progress in education – not from the top down, but from the bottom up," he said.


Plus, there is this (remember 2 wars, an illegal war, debt ceiling limit hit, no D budget, etc):

Obama leaves Sunday night for a week-long trip to Europe, with stops in Ireland, the United Kingdom, France and Poland.

173 The best part about surgery is going to the gift shop.  I love hospital gift shops.

Posted by: momma at May 21, 2011 08:06 AM (penCf)

The best part about surgery is the drugs.

174 Knees are MUCH harder to rehab than hips...much harder.  And the continued PT for a knee is critical.

Posted by: Tami at May 21, 2011 08:09 AM (VuLos)

Based on similar experiences, I believe that you have to keep up the rehab routine for at least six months after the therapist says you are good to go.

175 Posted by: Tami at May 21, 2011 08:14 AM (VuLos)


The other team's kid all had personal batting helmets, names on their jerseys, parents holding up signs, and a real photographer video taping entire game.  Their coach would pitch 10 balls to each kid (supposed to be 5), and he wouldn't help out our players when they over threw a ball, etc.

Really, really pathetic.

176 Well I guess time for the news:

On this day in history:

1542: Spanish explorer Hernando De Soto died while searching for gold on the banks of the Mississippi River. 

 1881: Clara Barton founded what became the American Red Cross.

 1927: Charles Lindbergh became the first person to fly across the Atlantic (from New York to Paris) in his monoplane, The Spirit of St. Louis.

 1932: Amelia Earhart became the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean (from Newfoundland to Ireland).

 1956: The first hydrogen bomb to be dropped by air exploded over the Bikini Atoll in the Pacific.

 1989: In Hong Kong, approximately one million people took to the streets to show their support for students protesting for democratic reforms in ChinaÂ’s Tiananmen Square.

 1991: Rajiv Gandhi, former Indian prime minister, was assassinated by a suicide bomber.

 1998: Indonesian President Suharto resigned.

 1999: Susan Lucci finally won a Daytime Emmy on her 19th nomination.

 2003: Christine Todd Whitman announced her resignation as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency.

177 Plus, there is this (remember 2 wars, an illegal war, debt ceiling limit hit, no D budget, etc):

Obama leaves Sunday night for a week-long trip to Europe, with stops in Ireland, the United Kingdom, France and Poland.

Posted by: momma at May 21, 2011 08:17 AM (penCf)

What can I say--I am more a big picture kinda guy.  I leaving the details to my staff. 

Besides, I need the frequent flyer miles as I may not be able to get them in another twenty months.

178

Fox story

Picture caption:

Gov. Jon Huntsman visits an early primary state to combat perception and win over conservative voters

LetÂ’s see; he supported crap and tax, he is in favor of open borders and amnesty.  What part of the “perception” is he going to combat with “conservatives”?  Does Fox know what a conservative is or are they just pushing any old RINO they can find now?

179

Story/propaganda if you care

180

I tried to tell them.  The sad thing is that the kids on our team that were out were the very tiny, mentally challenged little girls.  Broke my fucking heart. Told hubby that if he didn't insist the kids stay on first, I would.  He offered to be 1st base coach next game

Posted by: momma at May 21, 2011 08:08 AM (penCf)

Wait, what?  I coached T-ball with a friend of mine once.  We were 12.  The worst was when the dandelions started coming up on the field...

181

Hahahahahaha

Obama invents a new way to lie and flaunt the law

White House on War Powers Deadline: 'Limited' US Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorization

I asked yesterday what the Republicans in congress were going to do.  I guess it was a rhetorical question. The surprising story here is that ABC even published this story.

 Oh, this is also no longer a “kinetic” war:

 Â“Since April 4,” the president wrote, “U.S. participation has consisted of: (1) non-kinetic support to the NATO-led operation, including intelligence, logistical support, and search and rescue assistance; (2) aircraft that have assisted in the suppression and destruction of air defenses in support of the no-fly zone; and (3) since April 23, precision strikes by unmanned aerial vehicles against a limited set of clearly defined targets in support of the NATO-led coalition's efforts.”

 Add this to chapter 99 of the never ending series of books titled “what if”.

182 Herman Cain Announces Run For White House
Friday evening in Council Bluffs, the Atlanta businessman announced his candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012.Cain spoke to a crowd of 200 people at Iowa Western Community College. His announcement was met with a standing ovation.Cain's press secretary said the official announcement will be made on Saturday.

183

Hahahahahaha; inviro-idiots have come out against the BS I-73 project

 This is one time I hope they win. Of course sine the Republicans in this State support it the paper favors the eco-turds.

184

Perhaps those stories of Romney skipping SC were all bull shit.

But get this spin from the Dem PR rag:

Gov. Nikki Haley, who endorsed Romney in the 2008 GOP presidential race, will not attend the event because her schedule does not match up, said Rob Godfrey, HaleyÂ’s spokesman. The two did speak on the phone Friday, he added.

Hayley will NOT endorse Romney this time. IN 2008 after the Fred dropped out he was the lesser of the evils. It is NOT his turn now.

185 Are you drunk-blogging?

186 Interestingly enough, a real psychic, and I'm not talking fraud here, works precisely the way Holmes's detective skills works, with the added bonus of to the trained professional, it is as easy to tell where a person is going as it is to tell where he has been.

187
These guys crack me up. They pop out of nowhere thinking they can be the GOP's nominee. Where were they in 2009 and in 2010 when conservatives were speaking out against Obama?

They have a lot of nerve to think they can pretend to be staunch conservatives when they were MIA and had absolutely nothing to do with the 2010 conservative pushback.

188 Does Fox know what a conservative is or are they just pushing any old RINO they can find now?

Posted by: Vic at May 21, 2011 08:21 AM (M9Ie6)

Fox is an establishment republican (e.g., RINO) media outlet, it is not a conservative outlet. It sometimes seems to be conservative because the other media sources are so biased towards the left.

189 The other team's kid all had personal batting helmets, names on their jerseys, parents holding up signs, and a real photographer video taping entire game.  Their coach would pitch 10 balls to each kid (supposed to be 5), and he wouldn't help out our players when they over threw a ball, etc.

Really, really pathetic.

Posted by: momma at May 21, 2011 08:20 AM (penCf)

Ohfergodssake.....is there someone who runs or supervises the league?  All the other teams should just refuse to play them.  That's over the top.

190
Where was Huntsman when we were rallying at commons all over the country?

Where was Gingrich, Romney, Daniels, etc. when were being called racists for opposing Obama's stupid policies?

191

Ohfergodssake.....is there someone who runs or supervises the league?  All the other teams should just refuse to play them.  That's over the top.

Posted by: Tami at May 21, 2011 08:28 AM (VuLos)

Not really.  It is just a 3 town t-ball program.  One twon has money, they other two don't.

Welp, going to a t-ball double header!  Have a great day guys.

192 Where was Gingrich, Romney, Daniels, etc. when were being called racists for opposing Obama's stupid policies?
Posted by: Soothsayer at May 21, 2011 08:28 AM (LSk1+)

They expect you to have a very short attention span due to the beneficial effects of the public schooling you have received.

193 185
It's an infomercial. He's the squishiest of the squishes so the propaganda masters choose him.

194

Remember asshole Rudy and Bloomshithead sending agents to the South to buy guns illegally?

 Also remember Clinton pushing the BS lie about Mexicans getting guns from dealers here before it was found that the government was the ones giving gthe drug dealers guns.

 Well, once again all those lies are exposed.

195 Too bad the thread got so far off topic. I was going to post that Martin Freeman is on hiatus from The Hobbit while they shoot series two of the Sherlock.

If anyone's interested, there's a long thread over at Gallifreybase that discusses all things Sherlock, particularly this series. It's got some interesting posts about Moffat's approach to the series, including links to a couple of fascinating interviews. Bert Coules, a frequent contributor, has written screen plays for BBC productions of Sherlock Holmes and is quite knowledgeable.


Not that I can do that, either, since the hyperlink tags don't work.

196 I wish they would keep Huckabee off the shows I watch.

197 Hey Ace Watson doesn't have a brother in this one Harry is short for Harriet Watson's lesbian sister.

198 Bibi gives Obama a history lesson

In a joint conversation with President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and just after the speech by Obama where he stated that Israel should return to 1967 borders, Netanyahu proceeded to give Obama, and the world, an important history lesson, along with a masterful refutation of ObamaÂ’s call for the new border set up.

Netanyahu also reminded the President, and the world, that it was Israel that absorbed many refugees during the formation of Israel.  However, it was the Arab states — IsraelÂ’s neighbors – who refused to accept the Palestinian refugees.  This is important to remember when viewing the Middle East — the Palestinians were left for dead by the same nations that now use them as a rallying cry to wage war against Israel.  The Palestinians are being (and have been) played as pawns by their so-called allies.

Netanyahu was clear, that Israel will not return to 1967 borders, which, as Netanyahu said with a perfect understanding of America, will (paraphrasing) leave Israel half as wide as the Washington Beltway. Further, Netanyahu said that Israel can not negotiate with the Palestinians while they are connected to Hamas, which he referred to as, “…the Palestinian version of Al Qaeda.”

(powerline)

199 hmm is there a place to see the Sherlock episode online?  preferably for free? 

200

LOL, the new 2012 Olympic sport

Will someone unseat the 2008 champion Romney?

201 Benedict Cumberbatch. They finally found somebody to play Sherlock Holmes who has an even sillier name. I love this show.

202 205 Sign up for a thirty day free trial at Netflix and after a month tell them to pound sand. You need a credit card but they wont charge if you cancel before the thirty days is up.

203 okay I think I found a free version of episode 1
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=O80YV8MP

204

For the guys; why Israeli troops are so good and the 1967 borders are shit

205 BTW if we're commenting here, we're not worthy.
Looks like the blogger staff are taken up.

206

Krauthammer doubles down on stupid

207 I enjoyed this quite a bit, but you really need subtitles with the thick accents and how fast they talk sometimes. Especially when Holmes is explaining his deductions.

As for Sherlock, he's supposed to be annoying and socially awkward.

I like how the show doesn't take itself too seriously, it's just a bunch of implausible but fun mystery adventures.

208 I have it on high authority that, due to a shortage of trumpet players, the rapture has been cancelled.  We can all go back to our normal everyday activities.

209 That's it for the news folks. Now got to russel up some grub.

210 Suck it, Camping!  You freaking poser.

211 Sure wish Netflix had freaking close captioning. Muttering Brits...

212 "The Intelligence Ministry's active and pious forces, in their ardent confrontations with the agents of the CIA ... arrested 30 people who were spies for America," state television's lunchtime news announced.
It said Iran had identified 42 US intelligence officers in such countries, saying: "they engage in collection of information regarding Iran's nuclear, aerospace defense and bio-technology fields," among other areas of interest.
Spying in Iran can carry the death penalty."
link

213 In other news, Wills and Kate returned to Britain from their honeymoon in the Seychelles.  (link in the ONT)

the pope blessed the astronauts in a first ever pope call to space and inquired about Giffords and is having a medal depicting the creation of man brought back to him by one of the two Italian astronauts.  (link in the ONT)

214 chemjeff, try this:

http://tinyurl.com/33vmozt

It is the BBC page for Sherlock.

Oops, at a quick glance I see only a link to episode three, and I wouldn't recommend watching these out of order. There's a bunch of good stuff there so it's worth the click.

I'm glad to hear they are making more. I started watching it in order to hate BBC for trying to re-make Jeremy Brett but they won me over, to the extent I bought the DVD set.

215  South Carolina Fox babe Ainsley Earhardt is looking hawt this morning.

216 So whose announcement will make the bigger splash this weekend:

(1) Tim I've-got-Pawlenty-to-offer

... or ,,,

(2) Here I am, rock me like a Herman Cain

217 I've had this sitting in my instant queue for 2 months now. Guess its time to watch it

218 You can pay $9 or 10 bucks for filesonic and download all the UK shows you want. Zen is another 3 episode UK detective series shot in Rome which is worth watching.

219 I'd be surprised if Netflix doesn't support captioning

220 At first I thought it was going to be that tired old meme about the shell shocked soldier. However, Watson is suffering ptss not because he was in combat, but because he is no longer in combat.  lol!

221 Suck your dick for a shilling, squire? Just a shilling.

222 I'd be surprised if Netflix doesn't support captioning

There is a film distribution company that buys a lot of these old UK shows, and has them captioned for American audiences - God bless 'em.  lol

223

Well, the dvds probably have close captioning. And Hulu has it. But nope, the online Netflix sure does not.

I had to give up on one show because they ALWAYS had mumbling characters and loud background noises.

224 211 BTW if we're commenting here, we're not worthy. Looks like the blogger staff are taken up. Posted by: De' Debil Hisself at May 21, 2011 08:56 AM (H+LJc) Eh, not all of us. I guess the Lord hates art. Or Californians.

225 There is a lot to said about the old classics. Most of the under 30 crowd have missed out, mostly crap coming out of Hollyweird now.

226 well crap, Megavideo stopped after 72 minutes
I gotta wait 30 minutes for the grand finale

227 I guess this is the open thread or something.  Anyway, I'm gonna have to disagree with CDR M about this week's South Park episode; it was terribly unfunny and I couldn't make it through its entirety.  In fact, I think it's safe to say I'm done with SP.

228 Thanks Ace. I watched the first two episodes this morning. Great series, I'm not sure how I could have missed this. ~V5

229 I guess the Lord hates art. Or Californians.

Posted by: CAC at May 21, 2011 10:01 AM (6gk77)

Just Californians. And the weird part is that California has a few pretty damned good museums. Why would he do that?

CAC -- northern or southern?

230 In Doyle, Sherlock Holmes is younger than Watson, by about 10 years.  Also Watson moved in with Holmes shortly after Holmes graduated from university, so the appearance of a young Holmes and older Watson in this version fits fairly well with Doyle, especially if you expect Watson to aged noticeably as a result of war service in the military.  Also, though a lot of SH's cases were were set later in life, Holmes retired from his detective's career before he was 45 and only came out of retirement a couple of times after that.

Aside from the Jeremy Brett version having much older actors I love this version and prefer Burke only slightly over Hardwick, Though Burke appears much younger than Brett and Hardwick seems noticeably older, they are all within a year or two in actual age.

Bruce looked much older than Rathbone but he was actually 3 years younger.

Freeman is only 5 years older than Cumberbatch. 

231 I was worried about it being PC, but I was won over early on in the 1st episode when Sherlock explains that he met Mrs. Hudson because of her husband being on death row in Florida.  Watson says "So, you stopped him from being executed?" and Sherlock smirks, "Oh, no, I ensured it!"

I liked that, too.  There is a similar joke in episode 3.

As to the gay schtick, there are only 3 scenes:  The one about the brother, the landlady asking if they were a couple b/c Watson was moving in,  and when Watson and Sherlock sat down for dinner and Watson tried to find out more about Sherlock, i.e., asking him if he had a girlfriend.  

232 Blacksheep, nice idea on Rock You Like a Herman Cain.

233 Good morning, morons! 

234 Hey, seeing how this IS the End of The World, and we have but 14 more hours to live... How about you moronettes finally becoming a bit more forthcoming with the booby pics?? Just to give us doomed morons one last thrill before heading off to cash in our chips??? Seems like the least you gals could do...

235 Good morning, Y-not! Happy Doomsday!!

236 anyone know if the Cain rally will be streamed online?

237 chemjeff:   There are ways to get around the time limit.
http://goo.gl/OB3Rv
Click megavideo in the sidebar.

238 243 Good morning, morons!

good morning! how's the house?

239 246 Good morning, Y-not! Happy Doomsday!!

Woo-hee!  We "win" and won't have to pay up on the mortgage!!! 

240 I've seen all three episodes and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I've also read every Holmes story and recently. I like the way Holmes is portrayed here. In many ways Holmes is a jerk, but a nice jerk. The actor balances the conflict well between being a robotic like Holmes vs. someone the audience can like and care about. I think he sums it up well in the third episode when he says, "Does caring about them help me save them?" Of course the answer is "no." You know that Holmes genuinely does care about saving these people, even if part of that is simply because he enjoys the game, but he also realizes that emotions can cloud his judgement and make it harder to solve the case.

241
South Carolina Fox babe Ainsley Earhardt is looking hawt this morning.

Posted by: Vic at May 21, 2011 09:35 AM (M9Ie6)

Have you seen the latest hottie Diane Macedo on FBN?  Bitchin' hot with a great voice.  Unknown rating on breasticles and hynie.

242 When does Episode 4, The Case of Holmes vs. Brain Eating Zombies, premier?

243

Story/propaganda if you care

With him, English will NEVER be attributed as "the" American language.

Spanish and ESL, move over for Chinese as "official" second language.

Population doesn't  matter -- it's nothing personal, just Globalism.

244 good morning! how's the house?

At the risk of offending (or boring) someone, it's great.  I kind of made the man buy it with only a cursory look at it, so yesterday was really the first good look he got at it.  Fortunately, he still likes it!

There is a stand of really tall aspens in the back yard and the sun came out briefly yesterday afternoon.  They looked beautiful with their leaves quaking in the breeze.  And they sound beautiful too!

'Off in a bit to meet the former owner who is going to show us some of the features of the house (there's some mystery electrical panel somewhere and a little water feature we don't know how to operate). 

You must be looking forward to moving into your place, chemjeff!  What type of home is it?  Remember, the ladies love shag carpeting and lava lamps!  ;-)

245 Hey, CAC, how about that picture in the ONT?  Gorgeous.

246 Posted by: rdbrewer at May 21, 2011 10:14 AM (/9ciG)

Thanks ... some jokes just write themselves ....

247 South Carolina Fox babe Ainsley Earhardt is looking hawt this morning. Posted by: Vic at May 21, 2011 09:35 AM (M9Ie6) I have this really nagging, distracting suspicion that girl does not wear any underwear. Not even a merkin, IYKWIM.

248 Cain should use that in his campaign.

249 252 When does Episode 4, The Case of Holmes vs. Brain Eating Zombies, premier?

Speaking of which, I was at Borders yesterday and they have the Pat the Zombie baby book, a take off on Pat the Bunny.  I wish I knew someone who was expecting right now! 

250 I thoroughly enjoyed the whole series. I won't spoil anything but the final 10 minutes of the last episode will stick with you. Fan-fuckin-tastic.

251 "Keep your hands in your pants and your privates in your pockets"

Kudlow's on fire today.  He literally rattled off a laundry list, crossing party lines, of our politicians who haven't followed his simple rule and he's calling it a "wall of shame" on his kudlow report.

He put Newt in there.

252 Posted by: CoolCzech at May 21, 2011 10:22 AM (kUaEF)

Show some respect.

It's obviously crotchless panties; she is too much of a lady to go commando.

253 It's not a very full one, but here's another obituary for Edward Hardwicke. I'd forgotten that he'd been in Colditz too; and he was in the postwar RAF.

254 Huntsman = Standard Garden Variety RINO. I swear, sometimes as I read books about the American Revolution and what men like Paul Revere did and risked for our country... I think that if those people could come back and see us today, they would feel a deep, deep sense of betrayal.

255
I have this really nagging, distracting suspicion that girl does not wear any underwear. Not even a merkin, IYKWIM.

Posted by: CoolCzech at May 21, 2011 10:22 AM (kUaEF)

wrong, wrong, wrong, we make sure of that....

256 It's obviously crotchless panties; she is too much of a lady to go commando. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2011 10:25 AM (LH6ir) I'll bet her Tramp Stamp says something all hoity-toity and all, like, "This End Up!"

257 Have you seen the latest hottie Diane Macedo on FBN?

Don't get FBN.

But she IS worth a look

258 South Carolina Fox babe Ainsley Earhardt is looking hawt this morning.
Posted by: Vic at May 21, 2011 09:35 AM (M9Ie6)

I have this really nagging, distracting suspicion that girl does not wear any underwear. Not even a merkin, IYKWIM.

LOL, I keep waiting for one of her co-hosts to run over and sniff the couch after she stands up.

259 Oh oh... I think we scared away the moronettes.... { : - (

260 Huntsman = Standard Garden Variety RINO

It's worse than that. He's some sort of fraud. Classic subterfuge.

261 We lurk. We take notes. We remember.

262 ZZzzzzzzz

263 271 We lurk. We take notes. We remember. Posted by: Mama AJ at May 21, 2011 10:33 AM (XdlcF) No Doomsday Freebie Sexual Favors, not even with only 13.5 hours left to go, huh?? Such is the life of the working moron *Sigh*

264 13.5 hours left to go

It ain't over? Crap.
Hey...my neighbors are gone! Does your ride go with you?

265 It's worse than that. He's some sort of fraud. Classic subterfuge.
Posted by: De' Debil Hisself at May 21, 2011 10:33 AM

Yeah, that guy is so obviously fake its painful.  Just another guy who spends hours in the mirror thinking "My Bullshit Is Totally Awesome!"

266 I like your site very much   EndTimes books  EndTimes supplies EndTimes firearms EndTimes travel EndTimes lotions and sprays EndTimes vehicles EndTimes footwear

267 Yeah, that guy is so obviously fake its painful.  Just another guy who spends hours in the mirror thinking "My Bullshit Is Totally Awesome!"

Yeah, but he is going to demonstrate his "conservative" bonafides in NH this week.

268
In the Sherlock dvd commentaries, they complain incessantly how fucking cold it was when they were filming. lol

The contemporary version of the Arthur Conan Doyle classic, Sherlock – co-created by Steven Moffat (Doctor Who, Coupling) and Mark Gatiss (The League Of Gentlemen, Doctor Who, The First Men In The Moon) – caused a sensation last summer, delivering an audience of over 8 million viewers, who tuned in to watch Sherlock and John Watson navigate a maze of cryptic clues and lethal killers in three thrilling action-packed adventures.
....
Steven Moffat says: "The three stories will be called A Scandal In Belgravia, The Hounds Of Baskerville and The Reichenbach Fall."

http://goo.gl/ICvq8

8 million for a BBC show is a fucking huge audience.

269 hey Y-not yeah I'm looking forward to moving in

it's an older house, not a big yard, which is fine by me because I don't like to mow lawns

it has great hardwood floors

no shag carpets or lava lamps though

270 Posted by: rdbrewer at May 21, 2011 10:23 AM (/9ciG)

Just Googled the Cain riff to see if I could lay first claim to it ... not even close, must be too obvious ... guess that's why I'm a humble commenter instead of an edgy blogger ....

Oh well, back to the drawing board:  Say, did you hear about The Donald's birth certificate Trump card?

271

Since we are in a Sherlockian thread, I would like to recommend the 1960's BBC Sherlock Holmes starring Peter Cushing as Holmes.  Only five episodes have survived and are available in a three-DVD set.

It is more akin to watching a filmed stage play but the writers and actors seem to have a genuine regard for their source material.  Some of the best bits are from the interaction of Holmes and Watson.  My favorite is when Holmes has Watson pay the bar bill when Watson thought it was Holmes' turn.

272 Larry Kudlow calling for moral fiber and intestinal fortitude among the business elites and the politicians.  He's made a good case for the fact that the economy is not coming back cause people have no filters. 

He's sort of right.  How many folks are "aware" of things that might not be "quite right" but instead of coming forward, they take the PC route and say nothing, hoping to not get involved.  They watch their back, make sure there are no "links" to them but tacitly allow the behavior to continue. 

Kudlow seems to be making the case that they are just as culpable as those who don't have any morals whatsoever.

273 130 seemless seamless   Yeah, saw that - another example of why people who have been to college, er.. I mean COLLEGE, find this blog so tedious.

274 @You know, judgement day, I might consider ordering from you. But seeing how Skynet becomes self-aware tonight, and the moronettes are still practically rivetted to their undies... What difference would it make?

275

Okay, just finished the first episode.

Very nicely done.

276 Larry Kudlow calling for moral fiber and intestinal fortitude among the business elites and the politicians Sounds like he could use some Metamucil wafers. The cinnamon flavored ones work best.

277

I have no idea who Jessica Wakeman is, but this quote at Instapundit makes me want to puke:

 I believe Maria Shriver was either willfully ignorant of or willing-to-put-up-with, Hillary Clinton-style, her husbandÂ’s cheating and sexual harassment. How could she not be aware of it, in some way? . . . I expect better from my smart, feminist political ladies (and yes, that includes you, Hillary Clinton, as much as I love you).

"I believe" and "I expect better"??

Oh, wait, is she Obama's speechwriter?

278 He's sort of right.  How many folks are "aware" of things that might not be "quite right" but instead of coming forward, they take the PC route and say nothing, hoping to not get involved.  They watch their back, make sure there are no "links" to them but tacitly allow the behavior to continue. 

I realized this about politicians and insiders since the seventies. It's why there is a Tea Party. the Republicans have been complicit by turning a blind eye all kinds of insider crime and not standing up to the skullduggery of the Democrats. As long as they're sharing power and easy money they don't want to tip over the rotten apple cart.

279

The series won me over when, after Holmes deduces all sorts of things about Watson after studying Watson's cell phone. They have this exchange:

Watson: That was ... truly incredible

Holmes: Really?

Watson: Really ... really incredible.

Holmes: That's not what people usually say.

Watson: What do people usually say?

Holmes: "Piss off."

I'm a big Holmes fan. I have the complete works in print and audio on my ipod and one of the biggest kicks in the series is finding all of the references to incidents and exchanges in original stories but with a modern twist. Great fun.

280 I wonder if the raptor got Monty.

281 I like "rock me like a Herman Cain" blacksheep. I've been calling my support for him my personal Cain mutiny on the political class.

282 Hey! Whattya know. That little thing going on in Libya: A police action. No permission necessary.

Nothing to see, just keep on moving.

283 I wonder if the raptor got Monty.

Ohhhh....You get taken up by the Raptor. It makes sense now.

284 Posted by: Clueless at May 21, 2011 11:04 AM (piMMO)

Yeah, drudge has a little arrogance with your morning coffee.

Rumor has it that Orin Hatch has finally gotten pissed about a lot of stuff.  I have a feeling that you really don't want to piss Orin off.

285 Kudlow seems to have hit a nerve.  Regular folks are calling and they seem quite angry.  So, this is the tea party?  No wonder they, the politicians, want to believe the tea party doesn't exist.

286 one of the biggest kicks in the series is finding all of the references to incidents and exchanges in original stories but with a modern twist.

You must love the Golem.

I also enjoy the scene where Sherlock is watching daytime television and shouting, "Of course, he's not the father!"

287 Jim DeMint is Kudlow's guest, on now.

288 Rumor has it that Orin Hatch has finally gotten pissed about a lot of stuff.  I have a feeling that you really don't want to piss Orin off.

I work with a guy like that. He's the nicest guy in the world but I believe he'd meet you in the alley after work and beat the living piss out of you if you pushed him too far. And, if you ever told anyone what happened, they'd either mock you for it or refuse to believe him capable of it.

I do not piss him off. In fact, I give him kcups to assure he doesn't run out of his daily caffeine fix.

289 Posted by: ✡phoenixgirl✡ at May 21, 2011 11:08 AM (eOXTH)

I don't know much about him.  But, I've read a lot of comments on little blogs and such that he's pissed and they intimate that once Orin is pissed, watch out.

290 I'm a huge Holmes fan.  Read 'em all, and read many of the derivatives just for kicks (did a review on The Sherlockian by Graham Moore on Monty's Sunday book thread just a week or two ago, in fact).

It's going to be hard to get past my preconception of Jeremy Brett as the ideal Holmes, but I'm willing to try, especially if the setting is updated.  A different Holmes competing in the same era, iconic or not, would be too difficult for my feeble abilities.  The change in Watsons during the Brett series nearly killed me outright.

Good stuff - looks like the game is again afoot ....

291 Well, SOMEBODY needs to be pissed.

292 Cain's announcement coming up at noon.

293
Blacksheep:  You'll like it. It's quirky and fastpaced and humorous and sad.  The musical score is also well done as is the cinematography. 

294 They are talking about a possible "mandate" coming out of the "national labor relations board" thing in I the carolinas.   De Mint is really worried about the democrat/union inextricable link.

295 It's going to be hard to get past my preconception of Jeremy Brett as the ideal Holmes,

Yeah, there was a point where I started thinking of him as Sherlock Holmes instead of Jeremy Brett.  Like he really was Holmes or something.

296 It's going to be hard to get past my preconception of Jeremy Brett as the ideal Holmes, but I'm willing to try

Same here, but it does work.Watch all three eps since, imo, the characters of Holmes and Watson get better as they go along.

297  Belated good morning to everyone. I haven't seen the modern 'Sherlock' yet. Thus far, my favorite adaptation, if ya wanna call it that, is the pastiche 'Murder by Decree.' Since I'm also listening to a lot of the original stories via Librivox and my iPod, it's curious. I know the story's not canon, but in some ways it feels more 'true' than many of Conan Doyle's stories, esp. the ones where Holmes is mysteriously passive. It's like there are different Holmeses in "The Sign of Four" (where he's driven about catching the crooks) and "The Five Orange Pips." The way I see it, thinking further, there were three different corners to the 'Holmes' tripod at the start: his powers of observation and deduction, and separate to that, a habit of thought that we would call 'profiling' today but which was at the time new and nameless. And finally, a lot of hard bloody work, such as when they trace the cart halfway across south London between three and six in the morning with the hound, taking the wrong track and having to backtrack...

As time went on, Doyle tended to concentrate more on Holmes' Freakish Intelligence and less on the work and the profiling bits.

I'm still thinking this all through, and trying to integrate it with the fact that over time Doyle came to hate Holmes.

298 Hey!  I found an episode of Brett on YouTube.  I wonder if there are more.  Probably, since there is this one... which I will watch immediately.

Ahh.  Gonna be some nice YouTubing today.

299
A very long time ago, Jeremy Brett was in LA for a play and was interviewed.  He came across as one of the most kind and thoughtful persons. It really impressed me. I hope he was like that in real life.  Twenty years later, I still remember reading the interview.  I was truly sorry when he died.

300 224 So whose announcement will make the bigger splash this weekend: (1) Tim I've-got-Pawlenty-to-offer ... or ,,, (2) Here I am, rock me like a Herman Cain Posted by: Blacksheep at May 21, 2011 09:44 AM (HqdkS) ---------------------------------------------- Has "Big Govern" Mitt Romney announced yet?

301 As a long-time Sherlock Holmes fan (I'm nearly 60 and started reading ACD's works back in college), I'm quite pleased with the series. Like you, I was worried about the 'modernization' (or, if you will, 'modernisation'), but they really have pulled it off well. I've watched all three episodes, have enjoyed them all, and am re-watching them now as my wife watches for the first time. My wife is likewise enjoying the series, though she's never (to my knowledge) read any of ACD's actual stories and novels, which shows the series isn't just for Holmesian geeks.

Casting Martin Freeman as Watson was the single most brilliant thing they did -- his Watson easily holds his own with Holmes, even (especially) as he gets exasperated with him. I rolled my eyes a bit at the war vet/PTSD stuff at the start of Episode 1, which made me appreciate and enjoy the later twist all the more.

Best Holmes line in the first episode: "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath! Get your terms straight."

Being the BBC, "Season 1" is three 88-minute episodes. However, Season 2 has just started filming, so more's to come.  ..fritz..

302 Or Newt Gingrich-Off Reagan DVD's? Is he in?

303 Personally, my guy is: Rick Santorum and Gomorrah.

304 Here's a guy with no chance at all: Ron Paul-istinian.

305 Rocks, you don't know or care enough about Victorian society and English history to argue effectively. 

You pick bits and piece of what I wrote and take it out of context.  Comparing the historical research on Victorian England to Obama supporters is an absurd stretch with no logic.

This is the typical problem in blog debates, and it is a waste of time.

I specifically said that Doyle's audience was not 'the masses', and you have no way of knowing what these masses wanted.  We have the writings of hundreds of people from the Victorian era, and can make reasoned analyses--which I have tried to summarize.

Read some stuff, think about it, then get back to me

306 Comparing the historical research on Victorian England to Obama supporters is an absurd stretch with no logic.
Yes--Victorians used alot of soap.

307 I just want to be entertained. That's all.

308 It's a ripping good series. Especially when Moriarty makes his appearance.

309 I was able to catch the first episode when it originally aired, and just got the others through Netflix. I thoroughly enjoyed them, and am looking forward to more.

310 fritworth -

That's "Do your *research!*" love that lime!

311 <i>That's "Do your *research!*" love that line!</i>

Yep, knew if I quoted from memory, I'd likely get it wrong. Great line, still. ..fritz..

312 I don't even know if this matters anymore but sorry, I had yard work to do.


You pick bits and piece of what I wrote and take it out of context.  Comparing the historical research on Victorian England to Obama supporters is an absurd stretch with no logic.

Well I don't see how you take 2 paragraphs out of context and I wasn't comparing historical research to Obama supporters. I was comparing your revisionist history to the revisionist history that will be written about Obama.

This is the typical problem in blog debates, and it is a waste of time.

I specifically said that Doyle's audience was not 'the masses', and you have no way of knowing what these masses wanted.  We have the writings of hundreds of people from the Victorian era, and can make reasoned analyses--which I have tried to summarize.

I don't see where you said that and it's a little ridiculous. Doyle's audience was the masses. His stories were serialized in magazines. The masses read it and made him rich. He was no Jane Austen selling novels to middle class and higher women.

Rocks, you don't know or care enough about Victorian society and English history to argue effectively. 

Read some stuff, think about it, then get back to me

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 12:11 PM (UqKQV)

I tell you what this sounds like to me. This sounds like someone saying until you take my totally ahistorical premises as given I don't see any point in discussing this with you. You know what you read some stuff. Start with the size of England and historical population counts.

Let's deal with your original post:

One of the best books about England is "The World We Have Lost:  England Before the Industrial Ago", by Peter Laslett

Most people lived their entire lives in villages of 300-500 people, and even in the cities there were clearly-defined districts not much larger than that.  Everyone knew almost everyone, by sight or reputation.  Hence, not much crime--and if your gold chain is missing and the dude down the lane suddenly gained a new gold chain, the crime is solved

In London by the late 1800s, most of that was gone:  Most interaction was with strangers, and crimes could be perpetrated by invisible agents.  Hence the fascination with Jack the Ripper.

Laslett is one of the founders of revisionist history. To listen to him you would think England went straight from medieval feudalism to the Industrial revolution.

Great Britain is roughly the size of Oregon. Unless you were living in the Highlands you haven't lived an isolated existence in 800 years. Even if most of the villages were that small they were within an hour's walking distant of 3 or 4 more and less than a day's ride from the nearest large town or city. Suggesting those villages were isolated is like suggesting modern suburbs are isolated today.

Oregon has a population today of nearly 4 million. England had a population of nearly 6 million in 1750. 1/5 of which were paupers. There were literally armies of poor that roamed the countryside. Thieves and bandits was a normal way of life. Almost all crime was "invisible agents". That is another attraction of Sherlock Holmes. He solved crimes with motives besides "I wanted it" and weren't commited by some random person passing  through. 

Finally by 1800 most of that wasn't gone. In 1800 a majority of the population of England did not live in a large city.


Holmes was so popular because he was the manufactured fictional answer to the real Jack the Ripper and the reality of complex crimes where the motives were sometimes not apparent and the criminal could disappear into a city of nearly a million.

The Victorians created the rules & regulations for modern life.  They greatly valued order, and Holmes brought a sense of Order as well as a complex mind to solve complex puzzles

Posted by: SantaRosaStan. Master of the cyclic stick at May 21, 2011 02:10 AM (UqKQV)

I've answered this claptrap already. For the record the first Holmes novel was published the year before Jack's spree. 

Sherlock Holmes of the books is not what many people picture him as. Even most of the people who read the books have done so after being exposed to some variation of Basil Rathbone's  Holmes and never get that out of their heads despite what the books actually say.

Maybe not in minute details but in temperament and methodology  the characters L in Death Note and Victorique in Gosick, both of Japanese manga and anime, are far closer to the Holmes of the books than Rathbone or Brett ever were. As a fan of Holmes I still prefer Rathbone's Holmes visually. The Holmes of the book get's pretty tedious after a while visually.

313 I absolutely LOVE IT!!!!!! Thank Gawd a good new Masterpiece Mystery series, I was worried after Suchet's Poirot that all they could do was keep redoing Miss Marple with a new lead..

After 3 episodes I have a crush on Benedict Cumberbatch now...and as I hard a fan say on a youtube vid. 'He's so ginger!'

Indeed. First time evah I am crushin on a ginger...it;s that whole misanthrope thing I think...

314 Saw a realy good version of HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES with JEREMY BRETT and saw the orional with BASIL RATHBONE and NIGIL BRUCE