1
fuckit

McCain just changed everything.

2 The question is 'Will the Boehner plan make a damn bit of difference?'

Will penny-ante cuts make the least bit of difference?

I don't think the rating agencies are going to go legs-in-the-air over that saved billion.

3

A vote for the Boehner plan is a vote to pretend we have money that doesn't exist.  People who call 'purists' delusional should bear that in mind.

4 Ace's last sentence is a good point, actually.  If Reid swears it won't pass the Senate, and Obama swears he'll veto it even if it does, then why not put the burden on them by the time we hit August 2nd?

5

I don't think the rating agencies are going to go legs-in-the-air over that saved billion.

Pelosi probably would... of course, shes gone for way lower

6 Well a veto would make it harder for the dipshits in the media to continue the "GOP are obstructionists" line, but I'm sure they'd come up with some other bs to spoonfeed to gullible people.

7 what, the foolish comments about the Tea Party and BBA?

8
It should never have come to this point. Bad leadership let some idiots in the party go rogue. Amateur hour.

We had Obama by the balls. We had him. Now we're about to let him off the hook.

9 In politics as in battle, conservatives should remember Carl von Clausewitz’s sage advice to be satisfied with identifying and achieving “the culminating point of victory.”

A $1 billion cut sounds more like the culminating point of defeat.

10 Yeah, unless the democrats are lying about not passing it.  But they've never lied before, so let's trust them.

11 A politician's answer from a politician. Wow. And yes, politician is correct. Every week I hear John Oakley ask him if he's running, and every week he says he's "exploring" the idea. Is there value in defending a plan you know will be vetoed or voted down in the Senate? Yes, because that's now two "plans" that the Dems have spurned after having passed the House. It helps you politically. It still doesn't cut anything, RINO math whizzes. I will keep pointing that out until the sun is a cold, dead husk around which our lifeless planet revolves.

12

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....!

Has anyone mentioned we're doomed?

KRATOS WAS RIGHT!

13 This is the first time I can recall where Bolton is mistaken.

14 Is the culminating point of victory winning the WH & Senate in 2012?

If so, I'd like to know why that will be different than when we last held the WH, Senate & House.

Why is it going to be different this time?

I submit it will not. Because then, the culminating point of victory will be winning in 2014.

We're winning our way to bankruptcy.

Please, someone explain how, this time, it's going to be different. Who will be our Majority Leaders?

15 I won't argue to pass Boehner's plan.. it doesn't save anything.

But I agree with Bolton that we need to pass something rather than face the risk of doing nothing - which many of you think is no big deal.

Let's get the best deal we can and move on.

16
what, the foolish comments about the Tea Party and BBA?

yep

What was the point?

17 I'm not gonna bag on Boehner, I think he's tried to fight the good fight with one steadfast rule, do not default. I don't expect miracle when we control a half of a third of the government. Let's not flame Boenher too hard unless and until he throws obstacles in the way of massive cuts and restructuring after we take control of the presidency and Congress.

18 The problem is some Conservatives believe self-immolation is a great strategy for making a point.

What they don't get is that afterwards, there are most likely only ashes or at best. some serious burns.

19 "If AmericaÂ’s prospects for economic recovery are gravely impaired. . ." How does authorizing more borrowing and spending *not* gravely impair America's prospects for economic recovery more than forcing Obama and his lying minions to get up off their lazy asses to prioritize things and make the hard decisions that are theirs to make? There is a hard limit out there. It may be ten trillion dollars out, or we may have reached it last month and just not realized it yet.

20 soothsayer, or anyone else, can you tip me about this mccain thing? I'm looking and not finding, except for something on the BBA.

21 The optics of that-- should he do that -- would be worth something, I guess.

What optics? I thought we've established that the media will protect Obama at all costs. So, again, what optics?

This is why the Republicans need to do the right thing and not worry about what the media will do because the media will do what it always does, regardless.

22 Yes. The "optics" of the thousand "formerly reasonable and deeply conservative Boehner plan, modified to tamp down teabagger mass hysteria, vetoed because CRACKAZ" editorials from the GOP mediaplex will indeed be something.

23 17 yep

What was the point?


Media attention

24
If Boehner's plan fails, pass a very modest debt increase -- a clean bill --and then huddle up and regroup for Round 2.

This whole thing is FUBARed. Drop 10 and punt.

And next time, Boehner et al, get it right.

25 "Let's get the best deal we can and move on."

Then Boehner should quit planning and tell the Senate CCB is IT and nothing more is forthcoming.

If the Repubs are going to get blamed no matter what - and they will - then do what the majority wants you to do. IOW, what's right.

26
Sub-Tard, where's the McCain rant?

27 Oh, and after the next election is over, we need new leadership.

Because at that point, we are hopefully at the big boy table and don't need these feckless, illogical, weak political calculators.

28 14 This is the first time I can recall where Bolton is mistaken.

Posted by: Brown Gargantua at July 27, 2011 03:01 PM (B60j2)

No, his first mistake was letting me attain sentience. Bow before my luxuriousness.

29 Dear conservatives: Support Boehner. Channel any anger you have into getting rid of Obama and towards getting control of the Senate so that real reform can be achieved. Fucking reality is a bitch.

30 But I agree with Bolton that we need to pass something rather than face the risk of doing nothing - which many of you think is no big deal.

Let's get the best deal we can and move on.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 27, 2011 03:01 PM (f9c2L)

Congress has been deathly afraid of "doing nothing" for a very, very long time, and that fear has caused them to do things that have been very bad for America.

I don't about you, but I would love it if Congress, for once in their miserable lives, did .... nothing.

31 Rush it right. Just stop presenting plans futilely trying to please the Boy President just enough so he will sign something. Just say "Hey, we passed CCB. You no likey? Well, then Mr. President, you send us your plan and we'll vote on it."

32 I'm the POTUS, bitch!

33 "What they don't get is that afterwards, there are most likely only ashes or at best. some serious burns." In the face of thirty more years of getting robbed blind by deadweight, deadbeat ingrates who enslave me further and dig the hole deeper every time they enter voting booths, even the ashes end of that scale is starting to sound attractive.

34 Fucking reality is a bitch.

Posted by: Chris R at July 27, 2011 03:05 PM (QiNmA)

Now let's all support a vote for make-believe money and pretend everything will be alright.

35 This article at Hotair has more on McCain.

36 >>can you tip me about this mccain thing? I'm looking and not finding, except for something on the BBA. http://tinyurl.com/3o4zb45

37 the mccain quote is at Hot Air

38
This time doing something might be the right thing for the GOP.

If the market drops 2-3% for a day or two, people with 401K's will get nervous and angry. Even if it rebounds immediately, nothing will erase the spotlight on Boehner and the Tea Party freshmen.

39 "In the face of thirty more years of getting robbed blind by deadweight, deadbeat ingrates who enslave me further and dig the hole deeper every time they enter voting booths, even the ashes end of that scale is starting to sound attractive."

Thus.

40 I can't believe Arizonans keep electing that asshat.

41 "Fucking reality is a bitch." It sure is. It's about time the parasites get a lesson on that, too.

42 Fuck you John McCain.

43 37 Fucking reality is a bitch.

Posted by: Chris R at July 27, 2011 03:05 PM (QiNmA)

Now let's all support a vote for make-believe money and pretend everything will be alright.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 27, 2011 03:07 PM (FkKjr)

Can I haz Skittles nowz?

44 Re: Bolton:  Who was a fan before this and not a fan after this?

45 "If the market drops 2-3% for a day or two, people with 401K's will get nervous and angry. Even if it rebounds immediately, nothing will erase the spotlight on Boehner and the Tea Party freshmen."

How exactly would that be something new and unexpected?

46

If Boehner's plan fails, pass a very modest debt increase -- a clean bill --and then huddle up and regroup for Round 2.

This whole thing is FUBARed. Drop 10 and punt.

And next time, Boehner et al, get it right.

-----------

Ahahahah, and what the hell are they going to do in round 2? If I'm a Dem, and I just watched the Rs cave and pass a clean bill, why in the holy hell would I even bother to look their direction in round 2? I'd just wait for them to start sweating again and pass another clean bill.

47 I'm not reading the McCain quote. Why be upset further?

WTH, Arizona? What's wrong with you guys?

48 So, why would I vote for this and send it to the Precedent?

49 Boehner should add in the Irag and Afghanistan savings the same as Reid.  Add a lot to the front end as well.  The other advantage of Boehner over Reid (plan wise) is that Boehner keeps this as a campaign issue, and it is a winning issue.  The Dems play defense over the next 16 months.  Much better.  For once, Republicans may be playing the long game.

50 23 For all the furor over the Boehner plan, it seems forgotten that Obama has suggested he would veto it.

Barky has gone "Full Carter".

Posted by: jrg at July 27, 2011 03:04 PM (BkQvr)

Funny, I was expecting something from "Tropic Thunder" more than "Full Monty".

51
It will be new because a lot of a-political people will take notice. And they'll swallow up whatever the media tells them.

52 time to recess congress

53 47 Re: Bolton:  Who was a fan before this and not a fan after this?

Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2011 03:10 PM (K2wpv)

I've thinking of asking to transplanted to Madonna. That's how disappointed I am.

54 Hey Middle Class.......Suck My Dick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

55 http://tinyurl.com/2wws3r

56 47 Re: Bolton:  Who was a fan before this and not a fan after this?

Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2011 03:10 PM (K2wpv)

Stick to topics OUTSIDE our borders 'Stache

57 The only question to be considered is 'Will the Boehner plan, if passed, stave off a credit downgrade?'  If not, there's no point to passing it.  A credit downgrade will be the backbreaker, and I'm not convinced that Boehner's weak sauce is going to make it appear we've even begun to put our house in order.

And fuck John McCain.  The guy is lecturing US on political strategy?

58 I have never been more proud of not voting for John McCain.

What a complete and utter dick.

59 I would like to ask the wannabe political insiders and those deathly afraid of not raising the ceiling, what exactly is your plan if the Boehner plan fails? Let me guess, compromise just a little bit more? Move just ever so slightly more to the left? Or will you suddenly become true believers and welcome August 2nd?

60 4 Ace's last sentence is a good point, actually.  If Reid swears it won't pass the Senate, and Obama swears he'll veto it even if it does, then why not put the burden on them by the time we hit August 2nd?
Because the Senate already has CCB in front of them.  They have a plan to vote for.  The House should go on recess.

61 This is so far beyond pathetic. In the last year the discussion has gone from kicking Obama's ideological ass to how many hours a day conservatives will spend deep-throating him. $1 Billion in cuts (and you know they have to be lying about even that) - 6 hours out of a year's deficits - you might as well just continually toss his salad while he recovers.

You guys are so worried about how many votes you'll lose with each compromise you forget about how many votes you'll inspire with a simple "Hey Barry: go fuck yourself."

62 If the market drops 2-3% for a day or two, people with 401K's will get nervous and angry. Even if it rebounds immediately, nothing will erase the spotlight on Boehner and the Tea Party freshmen.

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 27, 2011 03:09 PM (sqkOB)

So... the Republicans are supposed to just roll over and give the Dems what they want? Because, frankly, the gimmicks he's pulling are the same old bullshit: increased spending now, and "cuts" pushed into out years, etc.

*sigh* This is going to end badly, because our leadership don't seem to understand negotiation 101.

63 58 Hey Middle Class.......Suck My Dick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Barry Obama at July 27, 2011 03:12 PM (48wze)

Can I haz reaches-arounds, plz?

64 And fuck John McCain.  The guy is lecturing US on political strategy?

Posted by: nickless at July 27, 2011 03:12 PM (MMC8r)

Try using some of that mocking rhetoric towards your colleagues regarding no budget from the Senate, Juan

65 "Ahahahah, and what the hell are they going to do in round 2? If I'm a Dem likely Republican voter, and I just watched the Rs cave and pass a clean bill, why in the holy hell would I even bother to look their direction in round 2 upcoming elections? I'd just wait for them to start sweating again and pass another clean bill."

The Republicans have a majority behind them yet they're bending over, repeatedly, to please Obama.

They. Have. Not. Yet. Learned.

66

Can we get off "August 2nd" please?

August 2nd is a LIE.

We won't default unless the president decides not to pay the debt service.

We have enough revenue to continue every constitutionally-mandated program, SS, Medicare, vets benefits, food stamps, and still have $40-60B left over for shit like sending money to China to clean up their hookers.

 

67 "I've thinking of asking to transplanted to Madonna. That's how disappointed I am. "Posted by: Bolton's Rocking Stash at July 27, 2011 03:11 PM (136wp)" Hey! Find your own damned digs.

68

clyburn and a group of House Democrats are urging President Barack Obama to invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling if Congress canÂ’t come up with a satisfactory plan before the Tuesday deadline.

Clyburn, the third-ranking House Democrat, said Wednesday that if the president is delivered a bill to raise the debt ceiling for only a short period of time, he should instead veto it and turn to the phrase in the Constitution that says the validity of the U.S. government’s debt “shall not be questioned.”

could they do that?

69 I told you that fuckin McCain would show up to be a landmine. That son of a bitch can't keep his nose out of a gawddamed thing.

That useless old fuck needs to be stripped of everything Republican. Shun this muthafucker.

70 By the way, just to get in a parting shot at the dead horse of Middle Earth references, the Fellowship didn't actually do the deed--Frodo faltered at the end and succumbed to the One Ring.

Good thing Gollum was there, coveting the thing, biting Frodo's finger off to get his Precious back...and by the way, launch himself into the lava in the process.

Translation:  The enemy's lusts were their undoing.

Anyone out there really feel like playing those odds?  I ain't confident right now.

71

Because the Senate already has CCB in front of them.  They have a plan to vote for.  The House should go on recess.

I thought Reid wouldn't allow it to come to floor for a vote.

72

*sigh* This is going to end badly, because our leadership don't seem to understand negotiation 101.

Posted by: KG at July 27, 2011 03:13 PM (LD21B)

Hey, I know how to negotiate. When I bought my daughter's car for college, I went to the dealer and said, "I have $50,000 to spend, show me your best Yugo!"

73 You guys are so worried about how many votes you'll lose with each compromise you forget about how many votes you'll inspire with a simple "Hey Barry: go fuck yourself."

Posted by: Evil Red Scandi at July 27, 2011 03:13 PM (M+Vm5)

Seem I recall a poll where a shitload of people(well above 50%) want a BBA, say no to debt ceiling raise

74 No! The Republicans will probably cave and pass the Speaker's plan but I will not grin and pretend that this Sh*t Sandwich is just fine and dandy. 

I will not roll over for the Establishment Republicans no matter how they seem to think that the Republican base are the serfs to follow their commands.

No to this cave!

75 72 "I've been thinking of asking to be transplanted to Madonna. That's how disappointed I am"

"Posted by: Bolton's Rocking Stash at July 27, 2011 03:11 PM (136wp)"

Hey! Find your own damned digs.

Posted by: Ms. Ciccone's Axillary Furburgers at July 27, 2011 03:15 PM (cbyrC)

Yah, like you'd even notice me in that Amazon jungle of hair.

76 Just put the debt ceiling to a clean vote now. Let the chips fall where they may.

77

clyburn and a group of House Democrats are urging President Barack Obama to invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling if Congress canÂ’t come up with a satisfactory plan before the Tuesday deadline.

Clyburn, the third-ranking House Democrat, said Wednesday that if the president is delivered a bill to raise the debt ceiling for only a short period of time, he should instead veto it and turn to the phrase in the Constitution that says the validity of the U.S. government’s debt “shall not be questioned.”

could they do that?

No.  The 14th amendment only says that the government has to pay its debt.  It is silent on whether it has to pay for anything other than debt service.  This is lefty blog Bizarro-world bullshit.

78 "I thought Reid wouldn't allow it to come to floor for a vote."

That is EXACTLY the point. Ball's already in his court; he's acting like it was never served. Make him deal with it and nothing else.

79 ty Truman

80 Can we just DEEM IT PASSED?

81

No.  The 14th amendment only says that the government has to pay its debt.  It is silent on whether it has to pay for anything other than debt service.  This is lefty blog Bizarro-world bullshit.

Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2011 03:18 PM (K2wpv)

Hey, if President Barking-Mad wants to pay our debt - let him. He spent it. He just has to crawl to Satan Soros and ass-kiss him for the money.

82

Just leave town.  Send the House home.  The Senate has CCB to consider.

Make this offer:  CCB, or don't raise the debt ceiling.

83 The Congressional Republicans should read _{Profiles in Courage} some of the transcripts of meetings with the KGB  by _JFK Teddy Kennedy before they agree to take a high hard one up the squeaker.

FIFM

84

Hey, if President Barking-Mad wants to pay our debt - let him. He spent it. He just has to crawl to Satan Soros and ass-kiss him for the money.

Debt service.  Which is as of right now, manageable.

85 79 Seem I recall a poll where a shitload of people(well above 50%) want a BBA, say no to debt ceiling raise

A BBA is in Boehner's bill and they were going to vote on the BBA this week. It caps spending at 18% of GDP.

86

Just leave town.  Send the House home.  The Senate has CCB to consider.

Make this offer:  CCB, or don't raise the debt ceiling.

Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2011 03:21 PM (K2wpv)

That would mean we would have to get our testicles back from our wives.

87 Since Boehner's plan is the only milestone thus far in this process, make them live with it.  Call it a day and hit the links, fellas.

88

Hey, if President Barking-Mad wants to pay our debt - let him. He spent it. He just has to crawl to Satan Soros and ass-kiss him for the money.

Debt service.  Which is as of right now, manageable.

Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2011 03:23 PM (K2wpv)

Yep, you are right. So around 14 billion a month or so? Maybe we should charge Soros "protection". Cough up 14 billion or we show you were Obama is..

89 Bolton: "We cannot know exactly how financial markets will react to the various scenarios that might play out over the next several days, but the potential cost of finding out what the defeat of the Boehner Plan would be is not worth the risk."

Guess what? As the Boehner plan evolves, it is no longer "the Boehner Plan." It's "the Obama Plan with Inevitable Economic Failure Forced Upon Him by Boehner."

It's a bad plan. You're asking for Americans to support a bad plan. How is that ever wise? How about resubmitting a "good" plan and explaining why it's the only option compared to watered down failure you know you have because the Beltway said you should? You, Bolton et al. are telling me that if we don't go back to spending from just a few years ago the nation will collapse? Hogwash. If we keep spending/debt increase up, and yes, "the Boehner Plan" does just that, we're getting downgraded anyway... unless Moody's and the S&P are being bought off with taxpayer money to delay what they should do.

Ripley really needs to bomb D.C. from orbit... just to be sure.

90 94 Since Boehner's plan is the only milestone thus far in this process, make them live with it.  Call it a day and hit the links, fellas.

Posted by: Fritz at July 27, 2011 03:23 PM (/ZZCn)

Works for me. Michelle, where are my clubs?

91 Dear conservatives: Support Boehner. Channel any anger you have into getting rid of Obama and towards getting control of the Senate so that real reform can be achieved.

Fucking reality is a bitch.

Posted by: Chris R

 

I'm a fucking reality as well. With a strap on. No lube though.

92 "That is EXACTLY the point. Ball's already in his court; he's acting like it was never served. Make him deal with it and nothing else." Along these lines. . . Why in the hell is CC&B--the one concrete entity in this entire mess--the only variable subject to adjustment? The Senate tabled it and Obama promises to veto it. Why would PEOPLE FROM OUR OWN SIDE treat these ACTIONS consciously taken (or not taken) by mortals as though they are hard physical constants?

93 Ripley really needs to bomb D.C. from orbit... just to be sure.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 27, 2011 03:25 PM (r4t7/)

Yea, that'll work.

94 Do as the Mustache says and no one will be hurt!

95

Yep, you are right. So around 14 billion a month or so? Maybe we should charge Soros "protection". Cough up 14 billion or we show you were Obama is..

It's about $29B/mo iirc.  If our credit rating falls, it could go as high as $60B after the short-term paper turns over.

96 Right now, it looks like the Rs have the votes to pass the Boehner plan. It will then be killed by the Senate. 

97 I do not give a fuck anymore. If the Republicans can't be replaced en masse next election by reliable, verifiable patriots, I won't vote and you can multiply me buy several million otherwise likely voters. If Boehner and the rest are going to bend over backwards to give Obama what he wants instead of what they know WE want, then Obama has essentially already won and this country is already done for good. I really hoped they took the warning from a few years back. Apparently I was wrong.

If they can lie to my face and make my vote end up irrelevant, I won't waste my time with it anymore. I'll just arm myself, grow my garden and chickens, and wait for the whole machine to finally blow apart.

98

Right now, it looks like the Rs have the votes to pass the Boehner plan. It will then be killed by the Senate. 

The fact that they would bring it to a vote is the only sign I need, and there have been many), that they are fundamentally unserious about paying back the debt.

99 could they do that?

Posted by: willow at July 27, 2011 03:15 PM (h+qn

Yes, in fact I have already predicted that if the House keeps its back up and refuses to raise the limit he will do it.

It is illegal as hell and has no basis in reality but they have found a couple of liberal fools who gave them a fig leaf while everyone else said it ludicrous. 

But the bottom line is just like every other illegal use of executive fiat, he knows he can get away with it.

100 "It will then be killed by the Senate." Or maybe Reid shoves it through the Senate and Obama signs it while crying, "Please don't throw me in that briar patch!"

101

Yes, in fact I have already predicted that if the House keeps its back up and refuses to raise the limit he will do it.

It is illegal as hell and has no basis in reality but they have found a couple of liberal fools who gave them a fig leaf while everyone else said it ludicrous. 

But the bottom line is just like every other illegal use of executive fiat, he knows he can get away with it.

And then we get to see Tim Scott fold like a cheap whore.

102
That does not mean total victory, but rather the maximum that can be achieved in any particular engagement.

The real engagement being in November 2012 I take it.

Some days I want to crawl under my blankets and hide for a decade or so.

103 "But the bottom line is just like every other illegal use of executive fiat, he knows he can get away with it." Then start the tax revolt. Game on!

104 No word on when Boehner is releasing his revised plan.

105 Usually I resent purity style arguments that any moderate Republican answer in a pinch proves they will never make a serious reform.

This case is different.  The Boehner plan is just too much additional spending.  The cuts are incredibly late and tiny.  We should try something else.

A much more limited debt ceiling increase and a future reform is better than kicking the can far down the road to gain so little reform.

106 Personally I liked the McConnell plan but I'm a dummy like that RINO Bolton so there's that.

107 short term increase +short term deficit reduction. This holding Barry Mc2putt's feet to the fire is fun.

108 People! People! This is finally The Hill To Die On! This is The Great Battle of Our Age - our Republic lives or dies on the outcome of this fight.  Therefore, we are going all-in and committing heretofore unimaginable forces to this fight: one entire cooks and clerks platoon (understrength).  Never before have we fielded such an awesome juggernaut!  Forward to glory! Victory or death!!

109 we stand in the breach, and no one else is willing.  these plans for our certain ruin can not be allowed to stand.  now, is the time, not when all the planets have aligned behind us.

110 All of this namby/pamby bullshit is why John Bolton should be elected President.  He's like the honey badger.  He doesn't give a shit about placating some assinine dope.

He's been around more than once (and has tremendous foreign policy experience), and knows the players and the crap.  And he has the balls to face it head on.

111

I respect Bolton, but he is wrong here.  We are having our futures destroyed.

 

This debt will see increased inflation that will wipe out the middle class as surely as it did it Argentina and Weimar Germany.  Do you want to see a lifetime of work swept away?

 

 

The support more debt.  That's why I always give another fix to my druggie borther in law when he tells me its his last one.

112 Bolton is my tiebreaker.  He would be an excellent President.
Take this hill, hold it, and then conquer the next one.

113 I can get it cheaper if you're not worried about a few scrapes.