1 Well, he's too busy taking the clown nose off and on, he can't be bothered with little things like facts to get in the way...

2 Fox News? Is that an animal show?

3 How could the most beloved clown of all-time be misinformed about anything? He had a rally and everything!

4 Perhaps First!

Just ask any liberal who outed Valerie Plame.   NOT ONE I've asked has ever had the right answer.

5 Hitler was behind 9/11.

6 Jon Stewart? Oh hellz no.

7 Saddam Hussein was behind Gigli.

8 I like Chris Wallace and all but I was really disappointed that he didn't challenge Stewart when he said that. You think he'd be in the know on what a bunk point that 'misinformed' talking point is.

9

Has anyone seen this incomprehensible rant by Fareed Zakaria?

http://tinyurl.com/3oaa549

He says that conservatives are like the "the old marxists" because they rely too much on theory and not enough on the real world. 

It is so full of non-sequiturs I don't even know where to begin.  Seriously, it just doesn't make sense.

10 Why was Stewart on the Sunday show to begin with? doesn't that lend to him a bit of 'credibility'? Wouldn't Red Eye have been a better place for Stewart if he was to go onto Fox?

11
O/T

Hairy Reed Endorses Huntsman

12

Of course Jon Stewart's viewers are smarter.  They agree with him, duh.

13 _{It is so full of non-sequiturs I don't even know where to begin.  Seriously, it just doesn't make sense.}

Forget it, dan-O; it's CNN.

14

8 Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 21, 2011 05:45

I was too.  That noob Stewart looks fiercely into the camera and declares this to be true and that every poll shows this!  Really Jon?  Or is this just part of your comedic style.

15 I'd love to see the question;

Were any WMDs found in Iraq after the invasion?

I imagine close to 100% of State Media watchers will get that one wrong...

16 Misinformed?  I think not - I know it wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor! 

17

It is so full of non-sequiturs I don't even know where to begin.  Seriously, it just doesn't make sense.

I read that earlier today.  It was all I could do to get through it.  Isn't Zakaria the guy that has been consulted by the White House or am I thinking of someone else.  Yep, he's a real scholar.

 

18
>>>Yep, he's a real scholar

He has a foreign accent and ominously unique name, so that makes him smart.

19 Oh and speaking of mis-informed, why did a majority of Obama voters believe the Republicans controlled congress in 2008?

Has anyone asked Stewart about that stunning failure of shows like his own?

20 Somewhere out there is a quote on the interwebs by Britt Hume, slamming Stewart for the answers he gave on FOX.  Something along the lines of 'he likes presenting the liberal point of view and, when he gets called on it, he falls back on the 'I'm just a comedian' excuse.'  Kinda classic Hume.  I'll try and find the exact quote.  Maybe. 

21 O/T there is a new Insider article and it says the WH is clearly worried about Fast and Furious.

22 10 Why was Stewart on the Sunday show to begin with? doesn't that lend to him a bit of 'credibility'?

Wouldn't Red Eye have been a better place for Stewart if he was to go onto Fox?

Posted by: Dave C at June 21, 2011 05:47 PM (x9YN5)

They actually did cover his appearance on Redeye, though I was a bit disappointed.  I haven't seen anyone go over that "I'm Herman Cain and I don't like to Read" joke and ask what if a conservative had said something like that about a black democrat?

Though they did make the crack about how he does his "funny" voices and asked if he's ever used a "funny" voice for Obama.

23 So what? Stewart's right. The science is settled.

24 Doom? I can't smell any Doom. I only sense the wonderful aroma of My Favorite President's aftershave. Oops, he's about to finish up with some golf, I better hurry in case he needs more of my advice!

25

I think we should come up with a comprehensive list of questions to ask liberals that they will get wrong 9/10 times, courtesy of people like Jon Stewart's efforts to blockade unfortunate facts.  I'll start:
1) Was President Clinton impeached?
2) Did Saddam Husein ever have WMDs?

26   7 Saddam Hussein was behind Gigli.

Posted by: Cicero at June 21, 2011 05:45 PM (QKKT0)

Best Brian Dennehy movie EVAH!

Played opposite Ben Affleck

27 Study in stating the obvious

Jon Stewart is a liar - check
The MFM are all lying liberal hacks - check
Fox News is conservative - uncheck

28

Yep, I'm misinformed because I prefer truth to bullshit leftist propaganda.

Fine, call me misinformed, but I'm not stupid enough to believe shit that comes out of a lying douchebag's mouth.   And, that includes some of the douchebags on Fox.   

 

29 I haven't watched the Stewart Fox slam but it seems to me that anyone could dent Stewarts brainsmart thought bubble by saying, "cough cough Obama coverage in 2008." You know, Jon, if you keep taking on and off your clown nose like that, you may get stuck with permanent clown face.

30

YOU ARE ALL MISINFORMED

31 Hannity used to do those "man-on-the-street" interviews (not sure if he still does, I don't listen to him anymore). Invariably he would get a young person who didn't know the first thing about government (except for the Awesome President), and would agree with quotes taken from the Communist Manifesto. That kind of thing works both ways.

32 I've always wanted to go to a liberal enclave with a video camera and do political party Jeopardy. Something along the lines of: "What party did anti-segregationist George Wallace run on?" "Lyndon Johnson is best known for escalating the Vietnam War. What party was he in?" "The only president to use atomic weapons in war belonged to what party?" etc etc etc *watch heads explode*

33 Mental exercise:  Let's ask libs if they thing 9/11 was a Cheney Entertainment and Light Show conspiracy.

Oh wait, that's been done and the majority said "yes."

34 @33, good, let's ask about the lies of Moore's Fahrenheit 911.

35 YOU ARE ALL MISINFORMED

I think that you MISSPOKE^tm.

36 or better yet, let's show them the hip, with-it, utterly informed Wisconsin school teachers walking around with Walker=Hitler signs.

37 i meant to say Wallace was segregationalist. Oh well, Like they'd know anyways...

38 32 I've always wanted to go to a liberal enclave with a video camera and do political party Jeopardy. Something along the lines of:

"What party did anti-segregationist George Wallace run on?"
"Lyndon Johnson is best known for escalating the Vietnam War. What party was he in?"
"The only president to use atomic weapons in war belonged to what party?"

etc etc etc

*watch heads explode*

Posted by: supercore at June 21, 2011 05:58 PM (bwV72)

What President made regime change in Iraq to be US Policy?

39 OT: I think the Greek government just collapsed over "How do we deal with our unsolvable debt problem." the site's in Greek, so I'm not totally sure.

40 I saw that interview. Wallace seemed to allow fucktard funny fuck to hang himself with his own words. Wallace viewers are informed and I believe they were horrified as was I that this commie cocksucker has any kind of a following. Wallace displayed our enemies.

41 O/T there is a new Insider article and it says the WH is clearly worried about Fast and Furious.

Do you have a URL?

42 "The KKK was a violent outgrowth of what political party?"

43 These "studies" also do expose genuine misconceptions.  But the misconceptions they choose to ask about are always misconceptions that a conservative is likely to have, rather than misconceptions a liberal is likely to have.  It's tedious.

44

Damn.

This has nothing to do with Anthony Weiner.

45 @33, good, let's ask about the lies of Moore's Fahrenheit 911.

I could never see the damn thing through the lard stains.

P.S.:  The only way I would actually watch a Michael Moore movie would be to save Mrs. Circa and the Munchkin Circas from being waterboarded.

46

I think a lot of conservatives would answer "correctly" if we were asked point-blank "What is the media wishes you to believe on this question" rather than "What do you believe the answer is?"

Good one, Ace. But what we're really interested in is, "What is the truth?"

47 M. Moore was on Olby's debut last night (?). Anyway, he made Olberpsychosis look svelte.

48

Problem #1: Jon Stewart has an Axe to Grind....and isn't man enough to admit it.

Problem #2: Jon Stewart showed a real ignorance to media bias, and seems to believe that Fox News bias, which clearly is not the equivalent to NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, PBS, and most forms of print media, is such a problem but can't support it with a good analysis or facts, and this in-turn allows an entire generation that looks up to Stewart to be even more ignorant than he is, because I don't believe he really beleives what he said.

We need people on the Left in this country...it is important but in my book, Jon Stewart just became completely unreliable as a crediable voice in anything that is remotely important.

 

 

49  the site's in Greek, so I'm not totally sure.

Posted by: Methos at June 21, 2011 06:02 PM (sOXQX)

So it's greek to you right?

50 I like greek.

51  M. Moore was on Olby's debut last night (?). Anyway, he made Olberpsychosis look svelte.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 21, 2011 06:04 PM (pLTLS)

You actually watched that?   I imagine you are more informed, now?

52 i meant to say Wallace was segregationalist.

I believe he was a Methodist.

53 OT: AP: Glitch in Obamacare would place couples earning up to $64,000 in Medicaid

54 God....how can anyone willingly turn on the "Queef." He defines "Hate" and Sociopathological behavior.

55 >>I think the Greek government just collapsed over "How do we deal with our unsolvable debt problem." the site's in Greek, so I'm not totally sure. Other way around. They decided against a vote of no confidence which means all they have done is delay the inevitable. On a related note, the Euro took an immediate dive.

56 You actually watched that? 

Oh heeeeeeeeell no. I saw the clip on Zip (I think). Somewhere. Yeah, he's truly grotesque that Jaba the Hutt. Which one you ask? Good question - I'm actually talking about Moore.

The clip was of him (Moore) saying that it wasn't hypocritical of Zero to 'cherry-pick' his constitutional precedent on Libya because his heart was in the right place.

Got that? He cares. Or something. Aw.

57

Glitch?  That's what we're calling it when we put everyone into government health insurance?

I think that's the point of Obamacare.

58 _{I think the Greek government just collapsed over "How do we deal with our unsolvable debt problem."}

Would that be parliament votes 'no confidence' in the PM, or 'Get to da choppah!!' collapse?

59 My biggest concearn is will the price of Gyros go up or down.

60 "The KKK was a violent outgrowth of what political party?"

The KKK was originally created by the excesses of the Republican Party in Reconstruction.

61
I like greek.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 21, 2011 06:07 PM (NtTkA)

Squeeeeee!

62 So it's greek to you right?

Heh.
155 NAI to143 OXI looks to me like the 'nays' have it, but zerohedge says Bloomberg's reporting it passed.

63

@57

No question...it was specifically desinged to put inplace the infrastructure of a Single Payer System!

64

So... "glitch" means "performs as designed" when it comes to shitty legislation Democrats cram down our throats.

Makes sense.

65 They decided against a vote of no confidence

Ah, so NAI means keep the government. OK.

66 When Liebowicz is on the defense you know

A-were doin something right
B-were as ineffectual as usual but the frakkin sky is falling

67 Fox radio news just reportde that the government held on, so I think they're gonna jusst keep doing whatever it was they were doing before.  I think that means bailouts.

68 50 I like greek.

Me too, . 

/With the sorry state of Athens these days, I should have just let Ares raze the place - at least they could have gone out in a blaze of glory instead of the slow decay they're facing now. 

69 Hm.  but they also said markets rallied at the news of the vote of confidence.  Maybe that means they're gonna go austere?

70 because his heart was in the right place.

Got that? He cares. Or something. Aw.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 21, 2011 06:10 PM (pLTLS)

Yep, his heart is in the right place.   Where would that be?   Hidden somewhere in his lower intestine?  

71

Posted by: Truman North at June 21, 2011 06:16 PM (K2wpv)

Well, you can keep kicking the can down the road as long the road is long.

72 I have always thought we sum1 should take a good graph showing the bellcurve of American opinion on things like illegal immigration and gun control, then put a cut out of their face where major media/politician personal opinions lie. 

Almost everyone would surpised how far far left the "MSM" is and that even the majority of Fox news personalities are to the left of the majority of American voters.  Right there one graph with Stewart, Couric, Geraldos shit eating mugs all sitting there way far off to the left of the average American.  One graph to captures the entire media/news media dynamic.

73

I would wager that Stewart would laugh in your face if you told him that Obama’s stimulus had nothing to do with staving off the “even greater depression”.

IÂ’ve argued this same thing for a very long time except from a different angle.  Even Obama himself validated it when he said that the shovel ready projects werenÂ’t as shovel ready as they thought.  Nothing got done.  How could the stimulus have helped?

74 Maybe I'm just misinformed, but the word I get from the Comedy Street is that before each Daily Show, Jon Stewart sucks more c*ck than Lisa Lampanelli at an NFL Draft party.

75

"The KKK was originally created by the excesses of the Republican Party in Reconstruction. "

"The Radical Republicans" of late 1860's and early 1870's fought against the KKK, even going as far as to try to get U.S. Grant to use the military. The KKK clearly formed from Southern Democratic Politicians. 

76 So what is the deal with that new show Falling Skies?

Anyone see it?  Is it worth my time? 

Someone told me it is like the shitty part of BSG.

77 >>Hm. but they also said markets rallied at the news of the vote of confidence. Maybe that means they're gonna go austere? The next tranche of bailout payments of about $12 billion US is due to Greece in the next few days. In order to receive the payment, Greece has to agree to a to serious austerity measures that so far they have not agreed to. And they probably won't. There have been growing riots in the street over this for months. This is kabuki theatre of the highest order and nobody knows exactly how it's going to play out but the ending is clear. Eventually, Greece is going to default and do some serious damage throughout the EU, taking down a few banks and perhaps triggering a domino affect in Portugal, Spain, Italy and beyond. Party now. We are all going to be sucking the pipe soon enough.

78 Good idea, Shiggs.  Ask Thad McCotter to do it on the House floor.  That would be right up his alley.

79 None of this matters. Stewart has his mugging for the camera smirks down pat. He promotes his liberal agenda, and takes no responsibility at all for anything he does, under cover of being a comedian. And the dim bulbs in his audience can tell themselves that they are part of the "cool" crowd. Megs McCain, (GOP candidates are not as cool as Obama) would be proud of them. You'll never get the libs, either the pros, like Stewart, or the amateurs, like his audience, to admit just how shallow they and their thought processes are. Meanwhile, I've put a mojito into a blender with some ice, to make a slushy, to dull the pain of the stupidity in the entertainment (news) industry.

80 Any guesses how many outlets will report Politifact's version of events or stop coddling Stewart?

81 I have a paid for jeep, crappy little paid for house, a beagle, and enough pension to keep me fed and entertained (drunk) . Screw liberals like Stewart.

82  O/T  The main headline on Drudge is "Obama Prepares to Ignore His Generals. "  Join the club.

83

I have a paid for 

 crappy little paid for

, a beagle, and enough pension to keep me fed and entertained (drunk) .

 

That's HAWT

84 The KKK was originally created by the excesses of the Republican Party in Reconstruction.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:12 PM (M9Ie6)

Wrong again, Vic.

The initial version of the Klan was started in 1865 before Reconstruction really got underway and before any "excesses" (like allowing Republicans to vote and stuff) could be used as a motivation.

The second version of the Klan was started in 1915 after Reconstruction had ended. This group faded away about the moment that blacks started voting Democrat.  I guess they had no motis operendi, really, just responding to excesses.

But if you want to be an apologist for them, though, please continue.

85 The most recent poll of the original article in 2010 ranks Fox ahead of CNN and MSNBC, Hannity ahead of Countdown, Glenn Beck ahead of Hardball Daily Show and Colbert.

The questions (Timely to the survey)

Which country has a Volcano disrupting air traffic (Iceland)
What position does Eric Holder hold (AG)
Who controls the House (Dems at the time)
What company is run by Steve Jobs. (Apple)

86 The KKK was originally created by the excesses of the Republican Party in Reconstruction.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:12 PM (M9Ie6)

I can't tell if you are serious. Because if you are, Tom Geoghegan might be correct about the south.

87 OT: I have the 2012 election finishing in an electoral college tie

88 "The Radical Republicans" of late 1860's and early 1870's fought against the KKK, even going as far as to try to get U.S. Grant to use the military. The KKK clearly formed from Southern Democratic Politicians.

I clearly said it as their actions which created them. That was the premise.

And besides that there really was no Southern Democrat party at the time. In fact, the only active political Party in the South at the time was the corrupt Republican Party installed through disenfranchisement of every male Southerner and use of bayonet law.

89 There were three KKK organizations. You folks need to go back and study some real history.

90

Oh my freakin' jeebers.   Bret Baier just reported that the WH sent them a changed transcript of the meeting with deWon and Wall Streeters (actually a fund raiser in the WH).

The original transcript said "laughter" after deWon said his administration had produced 2.1 million jobs.   The revised transcript changed "laughter" to "applause".

Did they really think news orgs would not realize the change?   Oh yea, forgot the only one they needed to be concerned about would be Fox.

91 And Wiki is not study

92  OT: I have the 2012 election finishing in an electoral college tie

Posted by: Truman North at June 21, 2011 06:33 PM (K2wpv)

Tie goes to the runner bitches!

93 43 These "studies" also do expose genuine misconceptions.  But the misconceptions they choose to ask about are always misconceptions that a conservative is likely to have, rather than misconceptions a liberal is likely to have.  It's tedious.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 21, 2011 06:03 PM (XyoGP)

All they have to do is ask purely objective questions: Who is the AG, who is speaker of the House, etc.  But no, they ask stuff like "Is global warming man-caused?" and record "misinformed" if somebody says no.

94 I can't do tiny url, and pixy won't take the address, but the new Insider article is at Newsflavor.  Sorry I can't be more help.

95 Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:34 PM (M9Ie6)

That's nice, but the Klan was founded just after the war in 1865, when the "excesses" of the Republican party were confined to kicking the snot out of the Confederate army.

96 93 There were three KKK organizations. You folks need to go back and study some real history.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:35 PM (M9Ie6)

Yes, the modern incarnation, however, is like Newsweek.  It's not really an organization, but it still uses the masthead.

97

There were three KKK organizations.

Original Recipe was the only real Klan.

98 "He had a rally and everything!" Yeah, play nice, and no mean rhetoric. Unless you belong to a union. In which case, you can be excused for behaving like an animal, cause you're doing it for the good of the "common man".

99 Time to leave for the night before I break my promise to Ace. Look you idiots I have been actually studying the war, its beginnings, and its aftermath since before most of you people were born. I have tales of reconstruction directly from people who were there at the time. I have extensive study in texts from libraries and universities.

Most of you have nothing more than propaganda from Northern Historians and the MFM. So good night. Once you have studied for a few decades come back and talk to me.

100

"The second version of the Klan was started in 1915 after Reconstruction had ended."

Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 06:32 PM (T0NGe) 

I thought it was later, in the early 1920s. But I am no scholar of the KKK, so...

(no criticism is expressed or implied by this comment).

101 I know the MSM is lying and what is worse, the MSM knows that they are lying, they even know that I know that they are lying.....but they know that there are still people who trust them.

And they take advantage of that.

102 103 Time to leave for the night before I break my promise to Ace. Look you idiots I have been actually studying the war, its beginnings, and its aftermath since before most of you people were born. I have tales of reconstruction directly from people who were there at the time. I have extensive study in texts from libraries and universities.

Most of you have nothing more than propaganda from Northern Historians and the MFM. So good night. Once you have studied for a few decades come back and talk to me.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:41 PM (M9Ie6)

Recommendations for reading material would be nice, and more convincing than an appeal to one's own authority, hint, hint.

103 "What party did anti-segregationist George Wallace run on?"
"Lyndon Johnson is best known for escalating the Vietnam War. What party was he in?"
"The only president to use atomic weapons in war belonged to what party?"

etc etc etc

Also:

The President credited with ending slavery in this country was a member of which political party?

Martin Luther King was a registered a) Democrat,  or b) Republican?

Woodrow Wilson and FDR were the Presidents credited with committing the US to fighting in WW1 and WW2 respectively. What political party were they members of?

Which political party had a former kkk kleagle serve as it's president pro tempore in the Senate?

Which political party controlled the congress and senate from 2006-2010, when unemployment skyrocketed, the stock market plummeted, and the deficit soared?

In the last 40 years, one president has circumvented the war powers act, committing the US military to fight in an illegal war. What is this president's name? Which political party is he in?

A senator from which political party was convicted of running a prostitution ring from his own home? 

Could do this ALLLLLL night....

104

Most of you have nothing more than propaganda from Northern Historians and the MFM.

I saw Gone With The Wind twice.

105 And besides that there really was no Southern Democrat party at the time. In fact, the only active political Party in the South at the time was the corrupt Republican Party installed through disenfranchisement of every male Southerner and use of bayonet law.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:34 PM (M9Ie6)

No, please, Vic, please continue apologizing for the confederates who couldn't accept a military defeat and who terrorized everyone but particularly blacks for the crime of voting for Republicans.  Yes, yes, the horrible Reconstruction Republicans did terrible, awful things like permitting the blacks to vote and all.

But don't worry.  They won.  The blacks aren't voting Republican anymore, are they, Vic?

106 Oh, and is it just me, or are most "John"'s, who spell their names "JON", liberal douchebags? I'm thinking, Jon Stewart. and the ever lovely, but stupidly liberal Jon Hamm. Or maybe on the part of Jon Hamm, his being gorgeous all his life, has led him to believe that he can skate by on his looks, and doesn't have to exercise his brain.

107

Vic,

"Once you have studied for a few decades come back and talk to me."

For Christs Sake....go back and read your comments.....your position is not even clear. Do you beleive the KKK was started by The newly formed Republican Party or not? 

108

What next.............O.J. didn't kill Nicole........it was Bob Dole!

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life and Killer of Polar Bears

With his erection that lasted more than 4 hours.

109

So Jon Stewart is a hypocritical, hyperliberal, angry divisive Obama-loving, GOP-hating dishonest cake eating farqwad?

Who knew?

110 Recommendations for reading material would be nice, and more convincing than an appeal to one's own authority, hint, hint.

Yes, Vic.  Moreover, you "study" what you want to study.  You "study" the whining and bitching of only a certain population.  For you, history is written by the losers.  I don't know why.  I don't care.  I do know my ears perk up when you apologize for the Klan and, by extension, all it stood for.

111 Most of you I have nothing more than propaganda from Northern Historians and the MFM crazy Southerners who still fight a losing battle over their cornflakes and bourbon. So good night. Once you have studied for a few decades come back and talk to me as an equal. Otherwise bow down before my superiority.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:41 PM (M9Ie6)

FIFY

112

For Christs Sake....go back and read your comments.....your position is not even clear. Do you beleive the KKK was started by The newly formed Republican Party or not? 

Posted by: Jimi at June 21, 2011 06:45 PM (JMsOK)

No, he was clear.  He thought that the Republicans were extra mean to an enemy they fought a war against for 4 years and who killed their president.

113 _{Oh, and is it just me, or are most "John"'s, who spell their names "JON", liberal douchebags?}

*ahem*

114 Why don't we just ignore the dumb ass and maybe he'll go away.

115

No, please, Vic, please continue apologizing for the confederates who couldn't accept a military defeat and who terrorized everyone but particularly blacks for the crime of voting for Republicans.  Yes, yes, the horrible Reconstruction Republicans did terrible, awful things like permitting the blacks to vote and all.

But don't worry.  They won.  The blacks aren't voting Republican anymore, are they, Vic?

Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 06:43 PM (T0NGe

I understand that the Union League was so eager to get the blacks voting that they burned down their barns and raped their women when they didn't. They don't seem to have raped white women, though. Funny, that.

Of course, I haven't studied the era in great detail, so maybe that is just Southern propaganda. I was reading Jack Hinson's One-Man War the other day, though, and some of the stuff he quoted from Sherman's correspondence (from before the famous march to the sea) was pretty hair-raising - I am reevaluating my belief that the hatred for Sherman down here is just a case of sour grapes. The man's ideas on how to deal with guerillas and the civilian population weren't to far removed from those of the Third Reich.

116 76

"The KKK was originally created by the excesses of the Republican Party in Reconstruction. "

"The Radical Republicans" of late 1860's and early 1870's fought against the KKK, even going as far as to try to get U.S. Grant to use the military. The KKK clearly formed from Southern Democratic Politicians. 

Posted by: Jimi at June 21, 2011 06:23 PM (JMsOK)

As if!  Everyone knows that the Klan was formed by Reagan back in the 80's 'n stuff.

117
Are You Informed?

Take my quiz.

1. Who really won the 2000 presidential election?

2. Is Global Warming real or a hoax?

3. True or False?
Sarah Palin is stupid.

4. Do Republicans want to bring back slavery?

5. Is Obama a highly intelligent man?

Answers:
1. Al Gore
2. Real
3. True
4. Yes
5. Yes

118 @vic,

You seem like a serious guy, but defending, even obliquely, the KKK will attract a fair amount of attention, and not the good kind.

Any defense of the KKK is a de facto admission that you are a racist.

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

119 Hey Vic, here's one that'll just kill you: Lincoln had a much much less harsh plan for the South.

But Booth and his conspirators killed him, presuming, I guess, that Johnson would be totally feckless on the issue.  Well, it didn't turn out all that well, did it? He was feckless, which allowed Congress to run roughshod. From what I've studied, Lincoln would have been great for the South.  Too bad, doncha think?

120 Are You Informed?

Special bonus question:

Do the Rethuglicans want to throw your grandma off a cliff this year or next year?

121 Let's not pigpile on Vic. 

122 I understand that the Union League was so eager to get the blacks voting that they burned down their barns and raped their women when they didn't. They don't seem to have raped white women, though. Funny, that.

How the hell does that work?  Catching flies with sulfuric acid?

Of course, I haven't studied the era in great detail, so maybe that is just Southern propaganda.

Ya think?

123 Posted by: Jonathan Swift at June 21, 2011 06:49 PM (SwkdU)

No, they are Jooos. Oh, wait...I see your point.

But seriously, Jonathon is a Jewish name from the old testament, so the contraction is Jon.

124

@118

Look.....I'm no historian, but I had a real good education as a young man, and I have done my fair share of reading. My understanding is the people who became modern Democrat Politicians are the same people who fought for Slavery and formed organization like the KKK. Whether that is the same as saying Democrat Party Politics formed the KKK or not, I'm not sure, but I do know that alot of what has been taught to American Youth over the years about this particular subject is incorrect, especially when the question of "Which Political Party stood for which Positions." 

125 Vic using the "he made me do it" defense?  ya that'l work here.

126 Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 06:51 PM (T0NGe)

That's just Northern propaganda from you winners. Of course that's what the history books say. But we know the real story.

127

I understand that the Union League was so eager to get the blacks voting that they burned down their barns and raped their women when they didn't.

 

This is a totally new concept in Get Out The Vote.

128 "Particularly Chris Christie, who according to whatever poll MSNBC was using, showed Christie at 44/47 for an underwater rating of 3." Yeah, there's a big surprise. Every public sector unionite, teachers, police, firemen, whatever, hate his guts. Meanwhile, I had to spend Easter listening to my unionized teacher sister in law, babble away about how awful it is that the new republican Governor of Michigan wants to take over the Detroit Public Schools. Because, as all good teacher union members know, the answer to decades of failure in the Detroit Public Schools, is to pour even more tens of millions of dollars down the toilet of their ineptitude. I'm with Ann Courlter. Any governor who will tell unionized teachers to shut the hell up needs to run for president.

129 I am reevaluating my belief that the hatred for Sherman down here is just a case of sour grapes.

Dude, Sherman was a GENERAL...fighting a WAR...against an ENEMY.  That is how it works.  They'd been fighting for over 3+ years.  If you don't take decisive action, the damn thing goes on forever.

130
We're fighting the Civil War again?

131 _{But seriously, Jonathon is a Jewish name from the old testament, so the contraction is Jon.}

You and your brown dildo are wise, Goodfellow.

132 @TrumanNorth, thanks its been knockin around the brain oven awhile, ill have to look up who Thad McCotter is.  Unfortunately I have zero political connections, which is Odd since half my paycheck goes straight to government....

@lilJon,  Jon is often shortened from Jonathan as in Jonathan, son of King Saul and Usurper King David.  Not sure where John came from but if you ever meet a Johnathan kick him in the nuts for the rest of us.

133
Cut the shit with calling Vic a racist.

134 We're fighting the Civil War again?

I'm pretty sure Vic calls it by a different name.

135 Oh, and is it just me, or are most "John"'s, who spell their names "JON", liberal douchebags?

Um, no.

*reviews unimaginative yahoo mail address*

Though in my case, it's because I have an uncle John and my mother didn't want people confusing us at family gatherings (yes, I know that makes no sense and yes she thinks it does).

136
We can argue history without impugning each other's character.

137 @Nerdygirl, an odd and definetly inaccurate quote, unless I missread it.

"Particularly Chris Christie, who according to whatever poll MSNBC was using, showed Christie at 44/47 for an underwear rating of 33."

I don't believe that statement for a second he is at least a 46".  Also still in Post traumatic stress from Weinergate, Id rather not think about Christies unmentionables.

138

Of course, that still would not have negated the very negative attitude Southern Whites had of the newly freed Slaves.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life and Killer of Polar Bears at June 21, 2011 06:57 PM (OWjjx)

And, the North treated them with such grace and dignity.

139 Oh, Booth and had no thought about post-war reconstruction. By all accounts, Booth's actions were the last desperate act of a man who was incorrectly thinking that somehow crippling the North would allow the South to restart the war with better odds.

Fair enough.

140 137 I am reevaluating my belief that the hatred for Sherman down here is just a case of sour grapes.

Dude, Sherman was a GENERAL...fighting a WAR...against an ENEMY.  That is how it works.  They'd been fighting for over 3+ years.  If you don't take decisive action, the damn thing goes on forever.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 06:55 PM (T0NGe)

So, if someone takes a potshot at your troops you destroy a random village, of you lose a soldier to guerillas you execute five random prisoners? You are fine with that?

Also, it didn't work - the guerillas got stronger and the local populace turned against the Union troops due to the brutality of the occupation. Jack Hinson himself was pro-Union until his sins were executed and their heads staked on his gate.

141 Cut the shit with calling Vic a racist.

Posted by: leftover soothsayers at June 21, 2011 06:57 PM (sEedC)

What, is he going to go all Nathan Bedford Hulk on us if he gets historical?  (You won't like him when he gets historical.)

142
I feel so outed and violated you bastards!

143

*sons* were executed.

144 The only reason Stewart got his facts wrong was because he was being broadcast on Fox. Has this statement been made on his regularly scheduled, highly reliable and informed show on Comedy Central, it would have been absolutely correct. Damn you Faux News and your right wing shenanigans and hijinks! /sarc

145 I've got something Brobdingnagian to show you: In my pants!

146 126, Fuck You, The atrocities committed by the north against the south is the reason for any bad blood still present today. Feel it in the thread? Booth was a libtard actor, do not connect him with the south. Vic did not and would not defend the KKK. You and anyone else can believe all the Honest Abe cartoon bullshit you want. He was not what the libtard history books paint him to be. We can argue till the keyboard breaks but if you think the north is innocent of heinous activities against the south then you are not as bright as I thought you were. Yes, it still stings.

147 So, if someone takes a potshot at your troops you destroy a random village, of you lose a soldier to guerillas you execute five random prisoners? You are fine with that?

It's war.  Of course you do it.  The Romans did far worse in their heyday.  You know how you keep that stuff from happening?  You surrender.

You always have the option of surrender.  Always.  And you know when a war ends?  When somebody surrenders.  If they don't have the motivation to do so, then the war just keeps on going.

Also, it didn't work - the guerillas got stronger and the local populace turned against the Union troops due to the brutality of the occupation.

Pah-lease.  It's a matter of pride and identity and the institution of slavery.  They would have bitched about the "brutality of the occupation" over parking tickets.

Reminds me of a tweet I saw about some woman saying "Just when I thought about voting GOP I saw @whoever's post mocking Debbie Wasserman-Schultz".  Yeah, after Sarah Palin was almost literally raped by the media, she gets in a snit over the fact that somebody notices that DWS uses fewer hair-care products than a Rastafarian.

148 #124 Faaantastic. You really need to go to work for some university, doing surveys and all.

149 Seriously, Vics okay. Worth hearing out his argument, anyway. But he's down in 104 degree SC right now, and I doubt that's making him too chipper.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 21, 2011 07:04 PM (IhHdM)

I don't remember getting a sympathy card from him when we had our 6 consecutive weeks below freezing and our below zero days.

150

RECALCULATING

151 Dude, Sherman was a GENERAL...fighting a WAR...against an ENEMY.  That is how it works.  They'd been fighting for over 3+ years.  If you don't take decisive action, the damn thing goes on forever.

Sherman made it a point to punish non combatants for actions of irregulars. If that's ok in your book what measures would you think were a crime?

152
Reminds me of a tweet I saw about some woman saying "Just when I thought about voting GOP I saw @whoever's post mocking Debbie Wasserman-Schultz". 

This is a very common trick you hear on radio shows and CSPAN. This is done in the same vain as the concerned lifelong Republican who makes comments on the blogs.

153 Charlie Brown's Dildo, "Posted by: Jonathan Swift at June 21, 2011 06:49 PM (SwkdU) No, they are Jooos" Jon Hamm is a lapsed Catholic. He broke my heart! I can barely watch the sex scenes on "Mad Men". At least you morons can lust after Christine Hendricks, knowing that she has the sense to keep her big mouth shut about politics.

154 158
It's war.  Of course you do it.  The Romans did far worse in their heyday.  You know how you keep that stuff from happening?  You surrender.

Fine. Execution of prisoners and random retaliations directed at the civilian population are A-OK with you.

Pah-lease.  It's a matter of pride and identity and the institution of slavery.  They would have bitched about the "brutality of the occupation" over parking tickets.

This was before the Emancipation Proclaimation. They still had slaves in the occupied South. Also, summary executions and mutilations, combined with constant theft and the occasional rape (almost always of the blacks they were supposedly fighting for, not white women) do tend to reduce enthusiasm for your cause. Also, did you read the part where Jack Hinsonm was pro-union?

 

155 And again. Someone needs to tell actors to shut the hell up about politics. It is their job to look good. Period. I'm talking to you, Don Draper. Oh, and Jon Stewart needs to have a few more people call him on his shit.

156 Jon Hamm is a lapsed Catholic. He broke my heart! I can barely watch the sex scenes on "Mad Men". At least you morons can lust after Christine Hendricks, knowing that she has the sense to keep her big mouth shut about politics.

Awww. 

157 157 126, Fuck You, The atrocities committed by the north against the south is the reason for any bad blood still present today. Feel it in the thread? Booth was a libtard actor, do not connect him with the south.

Except he was a southern man through and through.  I wouldn't say he's liberal or conservative inasmuch as those labels don't mean anything with respect to the politics of the mid-18th century.  The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848 and was, for the most part, obscure until Lenin.

Vic did not and would not defend the KKK.

Excused.  Again, they only existed because of all of those terrible acts of the north and were just a civic non-racial organization dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

You and anyone else can believe all the Honest Abe cartoon bullshit you want.

Strawman.

He was not what the libtard history books paint him to be. We can argue till the keyboard breaks but if you think the north is innocent of heinous activities

Strawman.

against the south then you are not as bright as I thought you were.

Yes, it still stings.

Like the song says, "Get over it." 

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 21, 2011 07:08 PM (NtTkA)

So, let's go through your post:

(1) Ad hominem obscenity.  Check. (Flies with vinegar)

(2) One-sided blame.  Check.

(3) Assert that no defense for the KKK is going on.  (I used excuse-making, but I think you mean the same thing.) Check.

(4) Bash Lincoln. Checkarooni.  He's the Emmanuel Goldstein in this little re-enactment of 1984.  (Or should it be 1884?)

(5) Non-sequitur about "innocence" of the north.  Check on the victim status.

158 It's war.  Of course you do it.  The Romans did far worse in their heyday.  You know how you keep that stuff from happening?  You surrender.

That's not war. If you are going to say war itself justifies any means to bring it to a swift victory you justify all violence for all purposes.

War unrestrained as a method of coercion is no different than any other type of violence, for any reason, on any scale.

159 Vic gave same lame excuse for KKK terrorism, pretty much the same diversion of guilt nonsense employed by leftists to excuse Islamist terrorists.

So now we're arguing over whether atrocities committed by Sherman were OK.

Got it.

160 Christine Hendricks has a mouth?

161 Personally, I am coming to the conclusion that the Civil War was a rather sordid and pointless affair on both sides, and the most important thing Lincoln ever did was to issue the Emancipation Proclamation and in doing so make the war about something worthwhile. Otherwise, it would have just been a bloody, pointless mess.

162 Sherman made it a point to punish non combatants for actions of irregulars. If that's ok in your book what measures would you think were a crime?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 21, 2011 07:14 PM (0q2P7)

It's a WAR.  If you want to get rid of the guerrillas, then don't allow them to hide behind skirts.  They could always surrender.  It's not OK, nothing is OK, it's WAR.

163

The deuce, you say! Next you'll tell me that Bush actually beat Gore. Hah! And I'll bet the Army found chemical weapons in Iraq, too.

164

It's a WAR.  If you want to get rid of the guerrillas, then don't allow them to hide behind skirts.  They could always surrender.  It's not OK, nothing is OK, it's WAR.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 07:24 PM (T0NGe

You are annoying me, AmishDude. I will now go out and hurt random people until you admit that you are wrong.

165 It's a WAR.  If you want to get rid of the guerrillas, then don't allow them to hide behind skirts.  They could always surrender.  It's not OK, nothing is OK, it's WAR.


If you want to get the wallet just shoot the guy holding it his fault for not dropping it.
If you want to get laid just force the chick if she says no her fault for not saying yes.
Then if you want to get rid of the infidels just collapse their buildings. They could always just abandon Israel.

You have an objective after all and no sense letting morality get in the way of it.

166 No, they are Jooos. Oh, wait...I see your point.

But seriously, Jonathon is a Jewish name from the old testament, so the contraction is Jon.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 21, 2011 06:53 PM

Are you saying that because of my beak?

167 I need to go, a thunderstorm is right overhead. Admit defeat, AmishDude, or else their blood is on your hands.

168 171 Christine Hendricks has a mouth?

Yes. CH has much more than just a large bust.

/Learning has occurred!

169 I will now go out and hurt random people until you admit that you are wrong.

Posted by: Grey Fox at June 21, 2011 07:28 PM (K7hz4)

A measured, intelligent response

170

Jon Stewart, prototypical Prog POS, but I repeat myself.

Working to make America better - according to their/his, repeatedly failed,  Socialist/Marxist credo/vision.  The Ends justify the Means.

171 Damn wtf is going on here?

172 Fantastic checklist, you are very good with deconstructing angry rants. Now go study your History. States rights was the primary reason for the War. Lincoln would have never went to war over just slavery. Slavery was just another dimple on the states rights golf ball. You called Vic a Klan supporter which would mean that he is a racist and supports the murder of Black people. That's fucked up.

173 Fine. Execution of prisoners and random retaliations directed at the civilian population are A-OK with you.

Of course it isn't A-OK, it's WAR.  Do you get the concept?  This isn't police brutality or civilian trials.  Do you think launching attacks from behind the skirts of civilians is A-OK?

Also, summary executions and mutilations, combined with constant theft and the occasional rape (almost always of the blacks they were supposedly fighting for, not white women)

So you say. I don't trust your sources as a matter of policy. You have to understand what war was like in the pre-industrial world and one of the hardest things to do was to keep the soldiers from raping and pillaging.  

Ever see the Star Trek episode where the society would send people to death for hundreds of years at pre-defined times so as to simulate war, even though there would be no resolution?  I won't excuse anything, but I won't use it as a damn excuse for the Klan.

do tend to reduce enthusiasm for your cause. Also, did you read the part where Jack Hinsonm was pro-union?

So?  Who's he?  Why should anybody care?

174
That's not war. If you are going to say war itself justifies any means to bring it to a swift victory you justify all violence for all purposes.

Then why do the guerrillas get a pass?

175 @184 Damn wtf is going on here?

Pointless argument*... which is driving me to the friggin' physics pimp thread. 


^{_{*But I appreciate AmishDude duking it out.}} 

176 Great, the evil rethuglicans are arguing with each other over the civil war and have forgotten what a lying douche I am!  I'll have to remember that the next time I stick my foot in my mouth.

177 I'm pro-Union, bitches      !!!!111!!!!

178 John Stewart:  Working to make America better?

No.  Working to make his own situation better, but only in a relative sense.  As long as he is doing OK, the rest of us can go  fuck ourselves. 

179 If you want to get the wallet just shoot the guy holding it his fault for not dropping it.

Whoa.  Terrible analogy.  We're talking about guerrilla warfare.  The better analogy is that you take my wallet and throw it into your car and then say I can't climb into your car to get it back.

180 Oh well, at least FUBAR isn't around to claim that if you think the North was the correct side during the Civil War then you support Obamacare.

181 list of things to NOT do:

1)  argue with Amishdude ( who isn't Amish ) about the C.W.

2)  call Spielberg's hand-picked director a Nazi

182

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 21, 2011 07:33 PM (NtTkA)

In the olden days, before the Progs revised the history books, you are absolutely correct, as to the prime reason for the Civil War.  Slavery, may have been fourth, way behind, at least 1 & 2.

183 192, That's funny.

184 I grew up in a Southern family, and even now the Civil War (yes, that's what it's called, shaddup) is a hot button, especially among the World War II generation -- who grew up watching Gone With The Wind the way us morons grew up with Star Wars.

Remember also that the South was very poor and underdeveloped for nearly a century after the Civil War. Prosperity only really started coming with the post-WWII boom. Dwelling on past injustices, real or imagined, was a popular indoor sport and flourished for four generations.

The capper was that just as the South was catching up to the rest of the country in wealth, suddenly the Yankees decided Civil Rights were important, after studiously ignoring the whole subject for eighty years. A lot of Southerners felt it was just an attempt by the Yankees to keep the South down.

The post Civil Rights era generations -- those of us born in the 1960s and after -- have some of those attitudes, but greater mobility and a genuine shift in opinions has changed that.

Of course, the Democrats have made political hay of the racial grievance industry since about 1964, so it's in their interest to depict the South as a festering hotbed of intolerance. Black voters must be kept in constant fear that only the Democratic Party can save them from re-enslavement.

185 190 - and he desperately wants to remain relevant.

186 You called Vic a Klan supporter which would mean that he is a racist and supports the murder of Black people. That's fucked up.

Supports it?  No.  He just brushes aside the guilt of the people who did it.

Yeah, that is fucked up.

187 Don't make me make a Nicolas Cage Open Thread...

188 199 - don't threaten us!

189 A war or a bar fight. Get it over decisively and quickly before you get hurt. Fuck the other guy.

190 Interesting post, Trimegistus.

I'm a Northerner, so I don't have a good sense of how Southerners perceive some things.

191

We need people on the Left in this country...

Posted by: Jimi at June 21, 2011 06:06 PM (JMsOK)

...for me to poop on!

192 Of course it isn't A-OK, it's WAR.  Do you get the concept? This isn't police brutality or civilian trials.  Do you think launching attacks from behind the skirts of civilians is

Actually I do get the concept having been in the business for a number of years. All the things you mention, war, police, trials are all societal constructs. None of them are particularly special in that they allow you to fundamentally circumvent the natural law. A society that undertakes a massive level of violence such as a war has to do so from framework of their own morality or else the whole undertaking from conception to completion is an immoral unjustifiable act to which no reconciliation can be possible. If "its a war" is acceptable license to perform any action of violence than a free society can never exist. For in a society that excepts violence in all forms as a convenient means to all desirable ends not obtainable through non-violent means in one construct cannot logically reject it in others; any and all disagreements become potential justifications for violent acts and therefore requiring continuing totalitarian governance to control.

It is a strange concept I know, but for a free society to exist they must agree that a common base of morality exists. And that base of morality cannot be subject to the whims of circumstance.

So no it was not acceptable because it was a war because it violated the premise of the supposed free society that decided to wage it.

In the case of those hiding behind civilians, I invite you to read Locke about measured response. In as much as a civilian is legitimately collateral to a military action or in fact aiding the enemy justifies to the demonstrable extent that the support exists the means to eliminate that support or the advertent collateral casualty.

But selecting non combatants at random to cow your enemy through atrocity is not acceptable.

193 The truth? Honey Liberal don't give a shit about the truth.

194 I dont understand  any one pays attention to this assclown. He is a comedian. NOT A NEWS Reporter. The MORE people make of this tardmonkey the more they give him credit.

195 198, I didn't read it that way, Most of the people that committed those racist crimes are dead. Dead people don't feel much guilt. My grandfather in his later years felt much regret for his activities with the Klan as a young man. I have never witnessed Vic being anything but a gentleman. When he is attacked unfairly as I believe he was. I will try to defend him. Please God, no nick cage open thread.

196 Please God, no nick cage open thread.

You're too late.

197 #207 You have been ignored. The Age of Cage is upon us.

198 183 Fantastic checklist, you are very good with deconstructing angry rants.

It's called Fisking and, yes, I'm very good at it, thanks.  My fees are high, but worth it.

Now go study your History. States rights was the primary reason for the War.

Bull.  That's just a bunch of apologists talking to themselves because the rest of the world has no desire to refight the war.

What was the casus belli?  Simple.  Sore Loserman.  Lincoln won the 1860 election for the Republican party.  The party platform included the position that none of the territories would ever become slave states.  In this case, the precarious 50/50 split in the Senate would go to the free states and the slavery game would be over by legislation.

There are some who argue that this would have been larger than just slavery, that southern agricultural interests would have received short shrift (that's the "states rights" issue).  It's weak sauce.  It's like arguing that Iowa should secede over the end of ethanol subsidies.  It's just not big enough.  The sentiment in the free states was against slavery regardless of party and that wasn't true of any other issue.

Lincoln would have never went to war over just slavery. Slavery was just another dimple on the states rights golf ball.

As I said, it was everything.  Remember that Lincoln was barely in office before the attack on Fort Sumter.  Once again...attack on Fort (federal property) Sumter.

You know what didn't happen before then?  South Carolina didn't offer a secession plan to Congress.  They didn't say how they were going to purchase federal property, much of which was purchased from them.  They didn't say how citizenship would be determined or how boundaries would be defended or who would be responsible for debts or anything else.

Do you know how a state (other than Texas) can secede from the union?

Neither do I.  Nobody does.  The constitution doesn't say.  And how is it determined that a state has officially seceded?  A majority vote in the legislature?  Both houses?  Signed by the governor?  Referendum?  2/3rds majority?  How is this done?  And, again, how do you deal with the ramifications?  Dual citizenships?

So, with Lincoln's victory and the Senate due to be unbalanced (and remember it was literally 50/50 with slave/free states and not on any other issue) the game was up.

You called Vic a Klan supporter

Nope.  Do a ctrl-f.  Apologist, yes.  But I think it's clear that he did apologize for the Klan.  Sorry.

which would mean that he is a racist and supports the murder of Black people.

I wasn't drawing any conclusions.  On the contrary, I think he didn't think through the consequences of his apologetics. 

199 As to what The War was about . . . it was slavery.

States' Rights? The Southern states didn't give a flying fuck for States' Rights when they were using Federal authority to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act before the Civil War.

Besides, they started seceding when Lincoln was elected -- not when he actually, y'know, did anything.  The Confederate States of America was organized in February 1861, and Lincoln didn't become President until March 4. Why did they secede, then? Because they knew he was an abolitionist. In other words, because of slavery.

Jesus H. Fucking Christ this is a tiresome topic. It has made the actual subject of States' Rights completely radioactive because tedious diehard bloody-shirt assholes keep up this stupid lie.

I'm a Southerner, and goddamned proud of it. And it's clear to me that losing the Civil War was the second-best result for the South. Winning would have turned the country into something resembling Colombia or Venezuela, completely dependent on Britain and France economically. You just know the Confeds would have gotten into some stupid wars with Mexico or Cuba or something. There would have been slave revolts, guaranteed. Bloody, leave-no-survivors revolts.

The best result would have been for Southern leaders to take note of what was happening in the North during the 1830s and get over their idiotic Walter Scott romantic cavalier feudal agrarian fixation and start industrializing the South and winding slavery down. No slavery, no Civil War, no third of the adult white male population dead or permanently injured, no century of poverty, no legacy of paranoia.

Imagine a country in which States' Rights was a valid political issue; in which good-old-boy redneck high spirits was a virtue. Sigh. Twas not to be.

Now can we get back to calling Jon Stewart a lying liberal shithole?

200 As I said, it was everything.  Remember that Lincoln was barely in office before the attack on Fort Sumter.  Once again...attack on Fort (federal property) Sumter.

After a formal declaration of secession, and a following unauthorized movement of union troops within South Carolina after secession to occupy Sumter.

201

Supports it?  No.  He just brushes aside the guilt of the people who did it.

Yeah, that is fucked up.
Posted by: sandy burger at June 21, 2011 07:49 PM (XyoGP)

I'm a Northerner, so I don't have a good sense of how Southerners perceive some things.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 21, 2011 07:52 PM (XyoGP)

Kind of the point.   Never let it be said that a Northerner doesn't know better than anyone how to think and feel, and is certainly smarter than anyone else about the history of this country.

Oh, and let us never forget the underlying belief  that Southerners are all inherently racist.

What a crock of shit by some commenters on this thread who just know, because of who they are, what someone else believes or feels.

202

 Jon Stewart a lying liberal shithole

feel better now?

203 After a formal declaration of secession, and a following unauthorized movement of union troops within South Carolina after secession to occupy Sumter.

And even after that, the peace conference met in Feb 1861 for negotiation. And even after that SC didn't attack till April. They gave the North plenty of time to GTFO and negotiate pricing for and payment for US property.

204

My family did not imigrate to America till the late 1960's. I am a first generation American. I grew up in Arizona, California, and South Dakota. I went to the South for the first time at the age of 27. I went thru the entire South.

In georgia I decided to take some backroads to see the beautiful country. I came upon an opening in the forrest, and I saw old shacks, with Black Folk working the fields, something you might see in the movies. About a mile down the road my eye caught a large Billboard up in the trees that Advertised a KKK meeting Wed. Night 7:00pm at so & so place.

It was shocked! Later that day in Northern Florida, I stopped at a Burger King. As I was standing in line, three Black Dudes pushed me out of the way, cut in front of me, and made a racial slur.

The only thing that came to mind was, "Why is there still racial tension here....I don't get it?"

205 Actually I do get the concept having been in the business for a number of years. All the things you mention, war, police, trials are all societal constructs.

One of these things is not like the other. 

War is conflict between sovereign entities. Any rules placed on such behavior are artificial and last only as long as each sovereign entity agrees to them.

A society that undertakes a massive level of violence such as a war has to do so from framework of their own morality or else the whole undertaking from conception to completion is an immoral unjustifiable act to which no reconciliation can be possible.

War is by its very nature an atrocity. You can set up artificial barriers to behavior, but one of our values is that we despise murder.  Well how do we get around that one in a war?

Also, I am not a believer in group morality.  That's more of an Islamic point of view.  That is, that ones moral standing is dependent on the society in which he or she belongs.

Moreover, you can argue about wartime atrocities, but cannot use them to justify other repellant peacetime acts such as were committed by the Klan.  Complete non-sequitur.

206 What a crock of shit by some commenters on this thread who just know, because of who they are, what someone else believes or feels.

I don't have to know what somebody else believes or feels to know when they've said something stupid, like blaming the KKK's actions on anyone other than the KKK.

207 States' Rights? The Southern states didn't give a flying fuck for States' Rights when they were using Federal authority to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act before the Civil War.

Yeah, plus you don't take a gun, go out to a muddy field and get shot at over "States' Rights".  You just don't.

The best result would have been for Southern leaders to take note of what was happening in the North during the 1830s and get over their idiotic Walter Scott romantic cavalier feudal agrarian fixation and start industrializing the South and winding slavery down.

I always wonder why there was no attempt to simply declare to be free anyone born after 1807 (when the international slave trade was ended).  It would have been a compromise that would have ended slavery eventually and, in fact, probably quickly in that as the slave population would diminish, abolition groups would simply buy the freedom of those that remained.

208 After a formal declaration of secession, and a following unauthorized movement of union troops within South Carolina after secession to occupy Sumter.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 21, 2011 08:11 PM (0q2P7)

Could you explain the legality of that "formal declaration"?  You can cite the article and paragraph in the Constitution in which it is laid out.

Since you can't, "unauthorized" has no meaning.

209 I don't have to know what somebody else believes or feels to know when they've said something stupid, like blaming the KKK's actions on anyone other than the KKK.

Posted by: sandy burger at June 21, 2011 08:21 PM (XyoGP)

Oh, bullshit.  He wasn't blaming their actions on anyone other than the KKK.   He made a statement of why they were created.    Whether you believe he was right about that statement or not, he wasn't excusing or deflecting blame for their actions.

210

The only thing that came to mind was, "Why is there still racial tension here....I don't get it?"

Posted by: Jimi at June 21, 2011 08:20 PM (JMsOK)

There's the nursing of grievances and the desire for victim status.  It plays a big role. People like to think that they are entitled to something and being a victim is how we confer such entitlements in this society.

211 He wasn't blaming their actions on anyone other than the KKK.   He made a statement of why they were created.

You have to read his other posts and the context of that first post becomes clear.  It was an apologetic.

212 The State's Right that caused the WBtS was the right to have legal chattel slavery.  With new states to be formed out west, the South knew it was only a matter of time before sufficient "free" states existed to outlaw the institution.  The actual spark was the election of a President and majority Congress from an expressly Abolitionist party.


And pixy's hamsters are faltering.

213 And pixy's hamsters are faltering.

Posted by: toby928™ at June 21, 2011 08:49 PM (GTbGH)

Yeah, I have to bow out.  I'm tired of re-re-reloading and I think my points were made.

214 I was told once that since my ancestors weren't even in the country at the time,my opinion doesn't matter.This was on another blog during a Civil War brouhaha.

215

Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2011 08:10 PM (bgWyF)

Yeah, what he said.

216

Oh, bullshit.  He wasn't blaming their actions on anyone other than the KKK.   He made a statement of why they were created.    Whether you believe he was right about that statement or not, he wasn't excusing or deflecting blame for their actions.

Posted by: Steph at June 21, 2011 08:37 PM (AkdC5)

Maybe, maybe you could look at it that way.  But then there's that whole "there were no political parties in the South after the Civil War except those evil Republicans causing trouble that came from the North."  That sure sounds like an attempt to place blame on someone other than the ones.  It just all comes off as being really silly and not a statement worth making.

217 You have to read his other posts and the context of that first post becomes clear.  It was an apologetic.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 08:43 PM (T0NGe)

I did and your immediate reply to him in which you proceeded to inform him what you knew about the KKK was this comment before he ever made another after his original.

But if you want to be an apologist for them, though, please continue.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 21, 2011 06:32 PM (T0NGe)

His next comment to you.

I clearly said it as their actions which created them. That was the premise.

Posted by: Vic at June 21, 2011 06:34 PM (M9Ie6)

You and he can argue all day long about why they were created.   You cannot say he was using his statement as an apologist of the KKK's actions.   Someone's stated belief, based on their reading of history, on why the KKK was created is not an apologetic for their actions.

 

218 Jon Stewart, Consistently Misinformed About FoxNews Watchers Being Consistently Misinformed

Is this "Jon Stewart" any relation to Jonathan Liebowitz?

219 If by misinformed you mean stupid fuck, then yes. He's misinformed.

220 Holy shit. I totally didn't intend to start another war here. I was just trying to say that any typical lib would automatically assume kkk = republican without thinking twice...

221

Could you explain the legality of that "formal declaration"?  You can cite the article and paragraph in the Constitution in which it is laid out.

Since you can't, "unauthorized" has no meaning.

A recognized State made it's wishes for sescession part of the public record. And the result was an unwanted army within that peoples borders moved to fortify its position within that States boundary. It is an open declaration that they would use force to impose their will. That would be the same if say the United States had declared independence from the crown and the crown had decided to take military action by moving troops to capture strategic positions. Wait a minute...

222 A recognized State made it's wishes for sescession part of the public record. And the result was an unwanted army within that peoples borders moved to fortify its position within that States boundary. It is an open declaration that they would use force to impose their will. That would be the same if say the United States had declared independence from the crown and the crown had decided to take military action by moving troops to capture strategic positions. Wait a minute...

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 21, 2011 09:35 PM (GE1+K)

 

But, a man would not go out into a muddy field to defend states rights, doncha know.

223 When I saw this on Sunday I was embarrassed for the schmuck, lamenting how hard his job is. The moment he started trashing Fox's viewer base, appearing poised to spit venom in my face, I looked it up and knew he was lying before the interview was over. I should've guessed he was referencing Soros-science. Point is, this was Jon's first big post-Weiner-view and the lack of self control ranged beyond his normal wimpy shtick to his spitting bullshit lies in the form of venom. Eff that guy.

224  @ 235 -- Whatev.  It's the War of Supercore Aggression.  Deal with it.

225 Just ask any lib who outed Valerie Plame.

NEVER do they answer correctly, because the MSM has kept that info from them..

p.s.  So far, "Falling Skies" sucks.   Armed convoys of humans can move openly by day unmolested , but come nightfall, during covert operations, the aliens are out in force.  Etc.  Major disappointment.

226 232   "is this "Jon Stewart" any relation to Jonathan Liebowitz?"

Unless you are an antisemite, Jay, this is an ugly, cheap shot.   Ever hear of "stage names"?

As in Cary Grant for "Archie Leach"?  Etc.

( I do suspect that you are anti-joooooo. are you?)

227 For all the Vic haters please look up the word 'Carpetbaggers', that is what he is talking about. And "reconstruction" was more like occupation which ushered in the carpetbaggers. You want a book to read? How about Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, by Lerone Bennett Jr. It's a start anyway. AmishDude at #126, you need help buddy. It's one thing being a soilder it's another thing being a terrorist and murderer.