1 More bad news for Cain.

2 Leave Herman Cain alooooooonnnnneeeee!!

3 All I know is that just typing the words "Karen Kraushaar" is giving me an erection.  Can you imagine having to occupy the same office space as this woman and not soiling your pants daily? 

4 wow, you put this up and now stew is announcing it live on beck.  Guess we know who is reading here today.

5 I'm shocked--shocked--that some people use their sex to get ahead in the workplace /sarc

6

Posted by: are we this stupid at November 09, 2011 11:19 AM (k1rwm)

yes curious you are that stupid

7 I do not know who this Karen person is. Should I wonder?

8 You know, if this all turns out to be a bunch of trumped-up BS, I'm going to have to eat a whole shitton of crow.

Don't get me wrong -- I'll eat it.  I'll choke it down.

But there's gonna be a lot of crow to eat.

9 3 All I know is that just typing the words "Karen Kraushaar" is giving me an erection.  Can you imagine having to occupy the same office space as this woman and not soiling your pants daily? 

Posted by: dope_n_chains at November 09, 2011 11:18 AM (oEq2J)

If her middle name starts with a "k" I'm going to put it into the "you can't make this stuff up category"

10 Bennett, who had no hesitation about making a statement about a confidential agreement, refused to comment on a confidential agreement.

By lib standards, that proves she tried to take the immigration agency to the cleaners, right?

11 NO!  No no no no no!  We must not let questions about the credibility, or lack thereof, of his accusers derail our effort to destroy Herman Cain's primary pid. 

12 You know, if this all turns out to be a bunch of trumped-up BS, I'm going to have to eat a whole shitton of crow.

Don't get me wrong -- I'll eat it.  I'll choke it down.

But there's gonna be a lot of crow to eat.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 09, 2011 11:20 AM (hIWe1)

it wouldnt be the last time Jeff

13 6

Posted by: are we this stupid at November 09, 2011 11:19 AM (k1rwm)

yes curious you are that stupid

Posted by: RINO VP AuthorLMendez, AKA YRM, Troll, Who Supports Banning Curious at November 09, 2011 11:19 AM (yAor6)

Oh you do care, I knew you would finally bite, couldn't resist.....

14 6 author +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

15 RINO VP AuthorLMendez, AKA YRM, Troll, Who Supports Banning Curious at November 09, 2011 11:21 AM Dammit Mendez, stop feeding it.

16 NO!  No no no no no!  We must not let questions about the credibility, or lack thereof, of his accusers derail our effort to destroy Herman Cain's primary pid. 

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 09, 2011 11:21 AM (+inic)

heh, there's so much more else we can derail his candidacy with though, more legitimate stuff

17 But Captain! The Attention Whore can't take any more!

18 Dammit Mendez, stop feeding it.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at November 09, 2011 11:22 AM (ZDUD4)

the ignore the troll crap has been tried before, it doesn't work. it comes back over and over again for the abuse

 

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Posted by: phoenixgirl ready to drink the perry flavor-aid..can i get a different flavor? at November 09, 2011 11:22 AM (SH3gZ)

why thank you

19 OT/ what is an architecturally signifigant design package?

20 I think I heard on Beck this morning that Clint Eastwood has endorsed Cain.

21 Unicorns, she likes unicorns.

22 >>>heh, there's so much more else we can derail his candidacy with though, more legitimate stuff

Not after this.  If he actually comes out this looking GOOD...I fear he'll be godlike and invincible to the extremely stupid segment of the populace that already thought he was a good candidate.

They were already in on Cain out of a purely emotional reaction...and that emotion would be amped up ten thousandfold. 

23 Again, the PROBLEM here is NOT whether or not these charges are true.  The PROBLEM is how pathetically badly Team Cain has handled what should have been an easy win for them.

I've had enough of incompetence in the White House for the last 3 years.

Nominate Newt.

P.S., For those of you who say yes, but Cain did a swell job as CEO of Godfather Pizza.  Lol, ok, it's a friggin pizza restaurant, not IBM - I mean, how hard can it be?  They make one thing.

24

Oh you do care, I knew you would finally bite, couldn't resist.....

Posted by: are we this stupid at November 09, 2011 11:21 AM (k1rwm)

are you hitting on me? I'm currently taken and not into "it"s

25

Megyn Kelly had a woman on her show yesterday.....a Cain supporter.....who said that she witnessed Herman and Bialek having a conversation a few weeks ago, at a tea party rally.

The woman was pointing out that it was a non-confrontational, amiable-looking encounter.....where Cain was leaning over to her so she could whisper in his ear [it was noisy there]....and Cain was smiling and responding to her. He then walked away and went on stage to speak.

Am I the only one who saw that?

Because three hours later, Cain was on national TV saying that he had 'never seen that woman before'. .....And Fox has been acting like that interview on Megyn Kelly's show never happened.

26

But Captain! The Attention Whore can't take any more!

Wow, this sentence is both on topic about KK, and off topic about a certain commenter. Nice!

27 This is the biggest, most intricate hit job ever put on a candidate. We are watching it blow apart. I hope we have learned something. Prolly not, but I can hope.

28 Boy, that Cain sure knows how to pick 'em, huh?

29 They were already in on Cain out of a purely emotional reaction...and that emotion would be amped up ten thousandfold. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM (hIWe1)

as War of the Undead States says that may be the only legitmate letdown from this as I believe Cain would be Wendell Wilkie 2.0

30 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

31 Megyn Kelly had a woman

I just blacked out ...

32 Interesting too how she bounces around with Federal jobs.  Damn leech.

33 @ 28 Boy, that Cain sure knows how to pick 'em, huh?

Yeah, anybody with that poor taste should NOT be President.

34 paranoid yes!

35

This is the biggest, most intricate hit job ever put on a candidate

If true it is really a sea change in role of media in electoral politics. And the changes there have already been huge.

36

Because three hours later, Cain was on national TV saying that he had 'never seen that woman before'. .....And Fox has been acting like that interview on Megyn Kelly's show never happened.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM (HhXzd)

he said he didn't remember her and if I met w/ thousands of folks I would have a hard time remembering them too

37 Still complaining about the way Cain handled it?  If you had numerous unfounded sexual harrassment allegations come at you publicly one after another, what would you do?  Cain has denied them all.  Do you still think he needs to come out with boatloads of specific specific proof to show he is not guilty?  And how would you do that?

38 From CNN:

(CNN) - Herman Cain's chief-of-staff Mark Block on Tuesday wrongly claimed that the son of a woman who accused Cain of sexual harassment worked at POLITICO, a news outlet that first broke the story.

"At the press conference it was brought up that Karen Kraushaar had come out as one of the women, and we've come to find out that her son works at Politico," Block said.

Kraushaar told CNN Tuesday that she accused Cain of sexual harassment when he led the National Restaurant Association in the late 1990s. Details of her case emerged through her lawyer last week, but she refused to go public at the time.

When asked if Block had confirmed the information about her "son," the chief-of-staff said "yes."

"We've confirmed ... that he does indeed work at POLITICO and that's his mother, yes," Block said.

But the man whom Block appears to be talking about–Josh Kraushaar–said he's not related to Karen Kraushaar. He previously worked at POLITICO but now works at National Journal, a news outlet that covers public affairs.

"Mark Block doesn't have his facts straight," Josh Kraushaar said in a statement obtained by CNN. "I am not related in any way to Karen Kraushaar, and I haven't worked at Politico since June 2010."

39 Well, there are... THREE accusers, at least.

40 avast mateys!

41 he said he didn't remember her and if I met w/ thousands of folks I would have a hard time remembering them too Posted by: RINO VP AuthorLMendez, AKA YRM, Troll, Who Supports Banning at November 09, 2011 11:27 AM And whose to say she was blonde at the time.

42

@ 27 This is the biggest, most intricate hit job ever put on a candidate. We are watching it blow apart. I hope we have learned something. Prolly not, but I can hope.

There's an engineering lesson here - the more moving parts you have, the more things you have to potentially break down.  The more complicated you make your hit on a Republican primary candidate, the more chances there are for it to all fall apart on you.

43 OT but worthy:

http://tinyurl.com/d9h2t2o

Man found dead in Occupy New Orleans encampment

Published: Tuesday, November 08, 2011, 8:17 PM     Updated: Wednesday, November 09, 2011, 7:54 AM

A 53-year-old man was found dead Tuesday inside a tent pitched at the Occupy New Orleans encampment at Duncan Plaza across from City Hall. He appears to have been living in the tent inside the occupation zone, said John Gagliano, chief investigator for the Orleans Parish Coroner's Office.

The man appears to have been dead for at least two days, Gagliano said.

Police received a call shortly before 6 p.m. about the incident in the 1300 block of Perdido Street.

"There are no obvious signs of trauma to the body," Gagliano said.

At the moment, his death is "unclassified," according to authorities.

An autopsy will be performed soon to determine the cause of death, Gagliano said.

Inspired by the Occupy Wall Street protests, the Occupy New Orleans group opposes what it views as the disproportionate power wielded by corporations and the rich.

44 Karen Kraushaar has this history yet Mark Block decided to focus on a journalist who shares the same last name as this woman but is not her son.

45 Hold it just a second. She openly talks about the complaint, but the lawyer who represented her on her complaint, can't talk about it because of confidentiality? Cain my be guilty, but damn it, not based on this constant horseshit. I hope this development gives pause to ace and others who have been awful quick to judge based on some rather sketchy evidence. Perhaps an apology is due those who have been accused of blind Cain love when they ventured to simply say, "Hey, hold on a minute, let's make sure before we condemn Cain for these allegations."

46 You know, if this all turns out to be a bunch of trumped-up BS, I'm going to have to eat a whole shitton of crow.

Well I can really only read your posts when they don't look like chapters, like this one, so I don't know what you wrote but if you criticized his handling of the situation you don't have to apologize or eat crow for that.

His campaign with all the lies, innuendo, and negligence is still a tremendous liability.

See: Block, Mark

47

@ 39 Well, there are... THREE accusers, at least.

Never lose hope, Ace, maybe the third one will work out for you.

48 oopsie on the bold...  This editor sucks teh balls.

49 no one touches me booty!

50 Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM (HhXzd)
Beck had an interview yesterday too with a fellow media chic who also said the woman was in the audience and bounded up to talk to Cain.  But beck was saying that it's possible when you shake so many hands and kiss so many babies that everyone sort of blends in to one event.  Beck and Stew were saying that people come up to them that they met at another event and say "remember when we met" and they said they literally don't remember but don't want to hurt the person's feelings so they say they do remember.

It's true, when you are out there it's tough to remember individual people.

51 Stop flogging me!

52 Anyone who has worked in the corporate world has meet a person like Karen K. Complains about everything and never contributes. What usually winds up happening is they are moved into the equivalent of the teacher's reading room for NYC. Pay them a salary and hope they go away.

53 And meanwhile, admitted sexual harasser and credibly accused rapist Bill Clinton continues to be considered a good president by most of the State Media and the Left.

54 i don't think i can do anymore Cain threads, even though he isn't my pick, I feel a need to protect His honor. (?)
I'm sniping at people I otherwise admire , and enjoy reading their posts.
so i'll wait these posts out. and hope for his and his families sake it's all bunk.

55 The joke circulated online lists reasons men and women were like computers, including that men were like computers because “in order to get their attention, you have to turn them on.” Women were like computers because “even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval.” If I sued everytime I got that e-mail, I would be richer than Bill Gates.

56  If Ace weren't intellectually honest, he wouldn't post this.

57 As badly as Cain has handled this, and even if he is a serial rapist, I still like him better than Mitt and Newt.

58
I'll bet my Leftnut that Steve Jobs and Bill Gates have had several sexual harassment claims made against them, too.

It comes with the territory.

59

"a bit of a complainey face" is a phrase I am going to try and use at least once today because I like it.

Look, who among us as women hasn't been told by a co-worker "I wonder what you taste like covered in apple juice" or had another co-worker come up to you and stroke you suggestively while saying "I had the best dream about you last night."

Wait, what? That was just me? Dammit. I should've filed a complaint, I could be rich right now.

60 Bitch set him up?

61 There ... are ...  FOUR ... accusers!

_{And one chick who got sexually-harassed with an $800 bar tab.}

62

Am I the only one who saw that?

Because three hours later, Cain was on national TV saying that he had 'never seen that woman before'. .....And Fox has been acting like that interview on Megyn Kelly's show never happened.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM

Sure, I saw that.  I also think Mr. Cain meets a lot of people.  Maybe they all look alike to him.

63 the commenter who doesn't listen to beck because she doesn't like him is commenting on what beck was talking about ..........

64 They make one thing. Bill Mitchell at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM (uVlA4) Hey now, they have hot wings, too.

65 Back in the 80s I worked in an office where many of the women had posters over their desks proclaiming the stupidity of men.  "Grow your own dope, plant a man."  "Unlike men, women do the job right in the first place [paraphrase.]"  It annoyed me to be called to perform IT support by those functional illiterates, who never saw any irony in needing the help of a stupid man.  Guess I should have raised a stink with HR over the hostile workplace conditions.

66 Bitch set him up?

Bitches, Ben. Plural bitches. Plural.

67 'Cain may be guilty'. Dave, that's all anyone, including Ace, has been saying. You then go on to say people shouldn't be so quick to judge. Who's judging?

68

"I wonder what you taste like covered in apple juice"

Really? Some dude actually thought this would work?

69
Yeah, I'm going to need that press conference at this point.

Too bad for you, Ace -- Paterno has already canceled it.

70 Apple juice?

71 I don't think the thing with Cain saying he never saw her before is really proof of his guilt. If you assume he's innocent, then he would not be expected to remember Bialek. Now, if he tried to frig her, sure, he'd remember her. But we're starting out here assuming he's innocent. So, this woman, who is not particularly memorable looking, accosted him at TeaCon; would he necessarily remember that encounter? I don't know. I could see him forgetting -- as long as you assume he's innocent from the get go. In my mind at least I think that's consistent with his story, as long as you believe his story. There's a difference between someone saying something that's untrue due to lack of memory or lack of knowing the facts and someone lying. It's definitely untrue that he never saw her before, but I'm not pouncing on that as proof of lying, because I could see it being possible that she just never registered with him -- assuming he had not grabbed her junk earlier, and also assuming she's lying when she relates the angry confrontation story.

72 It's never to late to get on the Cain train!

Plenty of seats available.

Final destination 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!!


Woo, wooo.

All aboard!!

73 Bill Curtis, longtime news anchor in Chicago apparently has said that the Sharon woman who had the Allred press conference the other day is....well, not reliable. I guess she used to work where Bill works and he actually said he wouldn't be suprised if they were in the car together, but it was her harassing Cain. Interesting stuff.

74

@ 62 Sure, I saw that.  I also think Mr. Cain meets a lot of people.  Maybe they all look alike to him.

Especially those white people.

75

 

The Dumbocrat Machine is really pulling out the idiot train to get Herman.

Pathetic shit.

I like the way Cain has handled this, in the general sense...he is forcing the Commies to get all angry and make themselves look really stupid.

I'd expect a CEO to play this card.

Let you enemies kill themselves.

 

76 I think in the next election, we should have multiple people accuse each and every candidate of sexual harassment, and then make our determination on whether or not they are fit to be President based on how they respond.

77 Apple juice? Why yes, Malumeroticism.

78 After reading that humiliating and degrading e-mail, Karen Kraushaar must have stormed home and drowned her sorrows with about 20 gallons of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. 

79 56  If Ace weren't intellectually honest, he wouldn't post this.

Ace doesn't need me to defend him, but his point has been show proof by either party. It is more incumbent on Cain since he is running for POTUS - a more important job than a CEO.

80

I do not know who this Karen person is. Should I wonder?

I think she is Mary Clogginstein's next door neighbor.

81 Posted by: Mclovin at November 09, 2011 11:34 AM (j0IcY)

he was funny on Jimmy Kimmel wasn't he?  "when you get on the Cain train you never get off"...

82 It's never to late to get on the Cain train!

Plenty of seats available.

Final destination 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!!


Woo, wooo.

All aboard!!

Posted by: Mclovin at November 09, 2011 11:34 AM (j0IcY)

no thanks, Ive been defending him against this circus but he's not my guy

83 I can tell you right now how this gonna play out.

Right now, the media spin is - Herman Cain is a serial sexual harasser and liar. He must step down.

Two weeks after Cain steps down the media spin will be --
The Republicans liked having an Uncle Tom up on stage until he looked like he might actually win -- so they accused him of trying to rape the white women. And all the racist Repub voters stood by Cain at first, cause they thought it was just nappy-headed black chicks he was trying to bone -- but once all the white women stood up as the accusers, the racist Repub voters got the vapors and sprinted for the exits.

I can see sketch comics now - "Save us Rick Perry, save us Newt. Protect our honor, you fine southern gentlemen. We had no idea Cain was such a rapscallion. Trying to finger-bang white women in a car? that just isn't right. That sort of thing might be acceptable among the negresses of the word. But these are white women!"


Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.

84 Is Karen and Toure the same person?

85 The world is full of professional victims. I have no use for them because they are irresponsible and only feel like they count when they are being a pain in sombody's ass. Most are women, but not all.We are raising a country of Man/boys who have no idea of what it is to be a man. Women like this are another symptom of the sickness of our society. Who is responsible? Well I cannot see any way not to lay responsibiliby for this right at the feet of "The Greatest Generation". While they won the war for freedom, they went home and pissed it away via the way they raised their children.

86 SO one of the anonymous now non-anonymous accusers considers "how are men and women like computers, You need to turn a man on to get him to pay attention and a women remembers every little thing you ever done" To be sexual harrassement. This was the land mine workplace culture men dealt with in the 90's and it sucked!

I hope all of those who were saying we have no reason to suspect this woman's motives have to work with the harridan in the future, and others like her.

"Karen Kraushaar" is a first class bitch who has no soul. This woman would send a man to jail on false claims just to improve the comfort level in her life.

Yet people still chastised those of us who come at any such claims with suspicion first?

Face it the majority of such sexual harassment complaints are frauds perpetrated by self centered, immoral, soulless, harpies.

87
It's time to cross off Bialek as a credible accuser.

And Krausharr.

88 @67 You have got to be f*ckin kidding me.

89 I wonder if the ladies will go on the view for their presser and then take a collective lie detector test?

beck is already saying he would have Cain on GBTV to take his test.

90 So we have two anonymouses, one potential gold-digger, and a complainy face.

Makes you wonder if the initial strategy was to always blow the first two out of proportion and then let the crazies come out of the wood work. 

91
btw, still no sex.

Indeed, nothing that even comes close to sex.

92 39 Well, there are... THREE accusers, at least. Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 11:28 AM (nj1bB) I'm trying to get the count straight in my head, too. There's (1) Bialek, (2) Karen Kraushaar, (3) a possible additional woman from the NRA that settled for 5 figures (rumored but I haven't seen it verified so I dunno if it's true). Outside of that there's the group of ladies he went to dinner with and the lady in Iowa who he supposedly asked to "doctor" his tea for him. The last two I don't take seriously at all because they're nonsensical. But the media keeps saying there's 5 accusers. My count gets me to two definite and one possible. Am I missing something?

93 The man appears to have been dead for at least two days, Gagliano said.

To be fair, they are hippies so neither the smell nor the fact that he wasn't doing anything would have tipped them off that he was dead.

94 Yeah, I'm going to need that press conference at this point.

And Beck this morning was talking about how Cain has mismanaged this whole affair.

Did I go to sleep and wake up in Bizzarro World?

95

Wait, what? That was just me? Dammit. I should've filed a complaint, I could be rich right now.

Posted by: ParanoidStillAGirlInSeattle at November 09, 2011 11:31 AM (RZ8pf)

Actually, you should have taken them up on it. It might have been fun. And then you could file a complaint if it wasn't

96 Can someone help me? How do we get to 4 women? There were 2 payouts and then Miss Bialek. I really don't count the woman who complained about being asked to set up dinner with Cain and another chick but ended up taking him out with other women as one. (I.e., the woman that allegedly got stiffed for $800.) I'm not sure which one this complainant is. Am I missing someone?

97

91, I'd say the car thing is attempted sex. Forcible too.

But still unproven at this point.

Any word on the hotel upgrade yet? Did it happen? Who paid?

98 Soothsayer at November 09, 2011 11:36 AM So I guess that leaves us with the no named accusers with the non specific accusations and the GTFO pay outs.

99 16 NO!  No no no no no!  We must not let questions about the credibility, or lack thereof, of his accusers derail our effort to destroy Herman Cain's primary pid. 

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 09, 2011 11:21 AM (+inic)

heh, there's so much more else we can derail his candidacy with though, more legitimate stuff

 

That's fine. Attack and derail away....leigitimately.

Just remember who the MBM is and their history of this sort of thing. Reagan once said "Trust...but verify". It's evolved to the point where any trust is downright naive.

100 Posted by: Clubber Lang at November 09, 2011 11:35 AM (QcFbt) --- Jesus, calm down. If that happens it'll say far more about them than us.

101

And Beck this morning was talking about how Cain has mismanaged this whole affair.

a blind monkey could see that

102
And don't forget that sweet Egyptian piece of ass that Herb tried to take out to dinner.

oh my

103 To be fair, they are hippies so neither the smell nor the fact that he wasn't doing anything would have tipped them off that he was dead.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 09, 2011 11:37 AM (Hx5uv)

I would agree except they should have noticed the lack of pot smoke in his immediate area.

104 91 btw, still no sex. Indeed, nothing that even comes close to sex. Posted by: Soothsayer at November 09, 2011 11:37 AM (sqkOB) I'm sorry to hear that, soothsayer. Have you tried taking up Parcheesi?

105 That sexually charged email was a video of Gloria Allred doing the nasty with a baseball bat on her assistant's hand formed vagina.

106 seems that hubby is a lobbyist?

107 @44. Yeah, I think at this point, Mark Block needs to be fired.

108 Any word on the hotel upgrade yet? Did it happen? Who paid?

Did Cain get laid?  Did he get a blow job?  Stay tuned.

109

That's fine. Attack and derail away....leigitimately.

Just remember who the MBM is and their history of this sort of thing. Reagan once said "Trust...but verify". It's evolved to the point where any trust is downright naive.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet, full of cliches at November 09, 2011 11:39 AM (YmPwQ)

Cain's not my guy but Im not jumping the gun that he's guilty like certain none-cain folks

110 >>>Perhaps an apology is due those who have been accused of blind Cain love when they ventured to simply say, "Hey, hold on a minute, let's make sure before we condemn Cain for these allegations." The Cainiacs have been saying more than that. They have been pretty sure he's innocent, and kind of aggressive about that. The problem continues to be numbers. Why do at least four people say he harassed them? Then we have the Crazy Train crap with people claiming an "intricate hit" -- apparently Old Sailor's Poet thinks that David Axelrod has a time machine and put these complaints in Cain's file in 1999. The magical thinking of the conspiracy theorists, who do not propose any plausible methods by which their time-traveling conspiracy could be accomplished, is... well, magical. "I want this to be true, ergo it must be true." The same way that a four year old thinks "I want my baseball team to win, ergo it will win." Most four year olds know that's now how it works by age 5. It's getting a little maddening dealing with supposed adults who haven't learned this yet. If you're proposing a conspiracy, I want the fucking details of how this was accomplished -- did the liberal machine know Herman Cain was running for President in 1999?

111 So, whats the possibility that Cain emerges from this like Superman from a phone booth?

112 She seems to get a lot of unwanted sexual advances for someone who looks like Eleanor Clift.

113 109..that's my point of view exactly.

114 The reporter asking Cain to take a lie detector yesterday? Have you ever before heard a reporter ask a political candidate such a question? Seems ace could rip at least one good thread on liberal media hatchet-jobs on conservatives.

115 a blind monkey could see that
That's not the point. The radio folks were avoiding that topic. And when they did talk about it it was "It's not effecting his polls, so maybe he's crazy smart"

116

I have no real way of knowing the truth about Mr Cains Bimbo Eruptions.

 

But the idea that these women have nothing to gain is such a big fat lie. All of them are guaranteed the pick of many new careers at some leftwing institution with all the doors that always open up for ideological warriors who take one for the team. Especially members of one of their chief victim groups.

117 Spectacular proof of the gal's assertion would be if Cain's wedding ring suddenly fell out of her vajajay during the press conference. But things never get that good life in real life.

118 @44. Yeah, I think at this point, Mark Block needs to be fired.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 09, 2011 11:40 AM (21lBC)

Block is an embarassment, imagine if Cain was to win the nomination. really? that guy running a camapiagn against David Axelrod?

119 Why am I not surprised that Ace's rape-apologist blog would find cyber-smut directed against women a source of merriment?

120 >>>Just remember who the MBM is and their history of this sort of thing. Do you understand that the complaints were filed by women, not "The MBM," and the records of the complaints are with the National Restaurant Association, not "The MBM"? The magical thinking here is turning the MBM into fucking sorcerors if not the Devil.

121
I sexually harassed Herman Cain.

It was a long time ago, and I was going through a bad time in my life. I tried to touch his crotch area, he rebuffed my advances. I am so ashamed. Herb, will you forgive me? And can I have a job?

122 Two complaints in her 20+ career and she is now defined as a complainer. Tough crowd.

123 I wish we could be anti-racist like the fine folks from OWS.

124

62.....Sure, I saw that.

Thanks. I was thinking that I was in an alternate universe.

 I also think Mr. Cain meets a lot of people. Maybe they all look alike to him.

So I guess that's why FoxNews is acting like that interview never happened. ....And I am sure it is true that he "meets a lot of people", which is why Cain needs to be a little less assertive about saying "never seen them before".

125 Is Ace flat-out saying Cain is guilty? No? Then who's jumping the gin besides folks like Dave who say, "Cain may be guilty"? Ace is saying the same thing. He's a little stronger about it but he's saying the same thing.

126 <i> It is more incumbent on Cain since he is running for POTUS</i>

Yeah, that's always the way this country has worked.  Presumed guilty until you can prove yourself innocent.

Pray tell, how does one prove a negative?  It is more incumbent on her to prove her story than for him to prove his innocence.  He is still an American citizen with the same rights as the rest of us, regardless of whether he's running for President or not.

127 The woman was pointing out that it was a non-confrontational, amiable-looking encounter.....where Cain was leaning over to her so she could whisper in his ear [it was noisy there]....and Cain was smiling and responding to her. He then walked away and went on stage to speak.

So...Cain supposedly harassed her, but she's perfectly willing to have idle chit chat with him? Really?

That's along the lines of Anita Hill choosing to keep working for Clarence Thomas even when offered the same position working for someone else while he was supposedly harassing her - it just doesn't make sense.

128 118 @44. Yeah, I think at this point, Mark Block needs to be fired. Just wait until I release my Smoking Vagina ad!

129 Heres an idee, I think ALL politicians should be forced to take polygraphs. Questions taken from a standardized list. Might save a lot of time and energy.

130 Ace, You've been right about Cain just as you were about Weiner. But don't you hope, as I do now, he hangs in there long enough for these women to take the stage? Come on, this may bring the whole political correctness movement down. What fun it will be!

131 88, 67 HAS to be.

132 hey, we aren't giving any credit to Cain for his successful presser.  I mean since BO was elected and in the latter part of the GWB administration we weren't seeing live real press conferences.  You know the kind where the questions aren't vetted and known before hand.  The kind where more than 4 questions are asked and they are random and the answerer doesn't drone on and go off topic.  You know the kind of press conference where the host thanks the reporters for coming and shows them deference and respect even if they don't deserve it.  And they still get to ask their mean nasty probing questions and have the host graciously and honestly hit them out of the part.

Yesterday was a great day for herman cain and the republicans, they reminded the American people what a presser used to look like and it was successful and worked!

133 Oh crap, forgot the Mark Block sock...

134 107 @44. Yeah, I think at this point, Mark Block needs to be fired. Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 09, 2011 11:40 AM

Mr. Block is not the person you want on tv answering questions, at the very least.  He jumps to a lot of conclusions and he can't seem to stop blurting them out.

135 Two complaints in her 20+ career and she is now defined as a complainer. Tough crowd.

Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at November 09, 2011 11:44 AM (o/UM0)

*slurps for Romney* *slurps*

136

Kraushaar is not credible to me.

First, who the hell has a last name with the letter "a" three times in it?  Obviously a poorly done sock name.

Second, who the hell doesn't remember going through the major, formal, legal adverse grievance events in your life: divorce, depositions, criminal charges, employment complaints, lawsuits/settlements?

Oh, she files employment complaints wherever she goes?  Good to know.  Now that this fact is linked on the internet to her name, good luck ever getting another job, honey.  If she has a silky sultry voice, perhaps she could find work as a phone sex operator.

137

Aw, hell, let's get on the full stupid:

Herman Cain sunk the Titanic by pushing the iceberg in the path of the ship and personally triggered  the Mount St. Helen's eruption!

Your turn....

138 Meh, I skip reading the Cain Mutiny posts here and hit the recap of Ace vs Cain over on RSM's site.  (Watching the poor man deal with the meltdown of a candidate he'd been all in on is sad, but a useful corrective to fanaticism.)

139 The man appears to have been dead for at least two days, Gagliano said.

As I have asked before - how long to the first case of Bubonic Plague in the OWS movement?

140 Remember when IBM made a notebook with a little "clitoris" in the center of the keyboard?   Yeah, women are like that.

141 I mentally checklisted the women I've worked with over the years. I come up with about 20% who would lie to bring down a boss and/or bring up themselves using sexual harrassment as their vehicle. You can't argue with statistics.

142 @ 110 I in no way see a coordinated conspiracy. I do see like minds following a narrative which is what narratives are for. This does not have to be a conspiracy for a handful of like minds in a group of 300 million people to to come forward under a theme of sexual harrassment and make such allegatiosn.

This is made easier given Cain's career where he has been in personal contact or in charge of a very large group of people, holding positions that will naturally cause some resentment, jealousy or just present themselves for opportunists to scam.

Now make such a figure public and divisive politically and I can easily see a handful of people independently coming forward to either seek an advantage or destroy for ideological reasons if presented with a chance to do so.

143 Since when are lie detectors reliable?

144 @112: Eleanor Clift really would be ideal to play the role of Eleanor in The Legend of Hill of House. If there was ever a woman that could convincingly play a 70 year old virgin... it would be Eleanor.

145 Posted by: An Observation at November 09, 2011 11:47 AM (ylhEn)

posted a link the other day, there is already an outbreak of lice and fleas.

146 >>>First, who the hell has a last name with the letter "a" three times in it? Obviously a poorly done sock name. No, it's a Sword & Sorcery wizard's name. "Kraushaar the Grim." Fantasy names love having the same vowel three or four times.

147 Posted by: Clubber Lang at November 09, 2011 11:35 AM (QcFbt)

You're absolutely right.

So what is your suggestion? 

Me?  I prefer to do what the facts say I should do.  And those facts (irrespective of him being a horn-dog) say he would not actually be a very good president.  One of those facts is the fact (based on this fiasco) that he has no message discipline (several different stories/denials) and horrible crisis management.

148

An actual email I just received:

 

Dear Sir,

The Federal Ministry of Agriculture, Nigeria intends to buy 2000 (Two-
Thousand) units of Tractors.
With my very good and strong contacts in the ministry, I can introduce your
company to the procurement committee of the ministry for the supply. Payment
is by 100% Telegraphic Transfer in advance before delivery upon contract
sign. Delivery period is 9 months, where partial delivery will be allowed
Therefore if you are interested and agree to pay me an agreed commission
after you received your contract payment, contact me as soon as possible for
further details to recommend you to the Contract Awarding Committee of the
ministry to handle the supply.

DIRECT RESPONSE FROM THE CEO,OWNER OR PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY WILL BE
TREATED AS SERIOUS


Sincerely,
Danladi Mustapha
Salimu Consults
No 67 Danubi Cresent
Maitama, Abuja
Nigeria

149 Here's a question - with all the talk about Cain needing to take a polygraph test, has anyone floated the idea of any/all of his accusers doing the same?

150

As far as the harrassment complaints, I cannot discount the use of one sided sexual harrassment laws as a cudgel by any aggressive corporate climber seeking advantage, especially certain types of woman. Or for them to have used a complaint in an attempt at revenge for some insult or slight.

Especially if they attempted to seduce the boss and were rebuffed.

I simply cannot discount that fact.

151
I prefer to think of women such as Karen Krashcar not as pc opportunists, but as  hypersensitive. She was born that way.

152 What do you want me to say Mendez? Ban curious so you can give me a +1? You're a witless joke.

153 Mr. Block Cain is not the person you want on tv answering questions, at the very least. He jumps to a lot of conclusions and he can't seem to stop blurting them out. Posted by: huerfano at November 09, 2011 11:45 AM (fecOD) FTFY

154 This is so goddamn frustrating.

It's as if conservatives are saying "damn, well this is really unfair that this has happened to a conservative. That damn media bias - sonsabitches! All of them!". All the sudden people realized media bias and hypocrisy in the year 2011. Really? Really??

Yeah well No. Shit. Sherlock. They're going to do this with every single one of our candidates. Yours isn't special in that regard.

We need to be focusing on who can whether the storm and respond according when (not if) the accusations come flying -- esp when they have notice they're about to be published.

When I see him bumbling  around (last week more than this week) and I see conservatives giving money to him I think -- what the bloody hell?!

Do conservatives want us to lose in 2012? Do they have a fucking deathwish or something?

That's where we're headed.

155

<sup>114
The reporter asking Cain to take a lie detector yesterday?

Have you ever before heard a reporter ask a political candidate such a question?

Why not? Allred said the Senate should supoena Cain & the women.</sup>

^{Is she REALLY a lawyer? Or does she just play one on TV?}

156
Kraushaar said Tuesday she did not remember details about the complaint and did not remember asking for a payment

Kraushaar:  Yeah I don't remember the details.

Cain: Yeah I don't remember the details.

Well hell, WTF is this?  Ok, my personal guess is with all this is "where there is smoke, there are embers", no fire.  My guess is Cain made "suggestions" and "moves" and was perfectly willing to accept a yes answer.  I'm a guy I did that, not at work or after I got married, but I never would have got married if I didn't make a move on my wife.

None of this is why I am not for Cain.  I am not for Cain, because he doesn't know basic political things, and OdipO must lose.

157 Fantasy names love having the same vowel three or four times. Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 11:48 AM (nj1bB) One comment about my name and...

158

Two flip-flops in the last 20+ minutes and I am now defined as a flip-flopper. Tough crowd.

159 For 145, I butchered that spelling in that post ugh

160 Women are like computers: They get slower and slower at performing the same tasks, they freeze up no matter how many times you boot them and you end up replacing them with a newer model.

161 @110 I have never alleged a conspiracy, and I presume those who have used the word are not doing so in a legal sense. I have used the term "hit-job." Whatever. I don't know if Cain is guilty. I don't know if he is innocent. Or something in between. I'm just not jumping on ace-groupthink that he most probably is because "where there's smoke, there's fire." Reporting sexual harassment settlements at the NRA years ago is legitimate reporting IMO. However, legitimate news organizations would not actively protect the privacy of the accusers while throwing out bit and pieces of allegations. And still, in spite of the NRA's offer to release this K woman from the confidentiality clause, her and her lawyer have declined said offer. I don't care if it's a single incredible allegation or 10 incredible allegations. They are still incredible, AT THIS POINT.

162 Typos be damned. I'm really f'ng pissed off.

163 Then we have the Crazy Train crap with people claiming an "intricate hit" -- apparently Old Sailor's Poet thinks that David Axelrod has a time machine and put these complaints in Cain's file in 1999. What complaints? show me a complaint. Show me verbage of wrongdoing? Complaints are filed against employers and other employees everyday all over this great nation. Most are BS. Your wrong on this one. You are complicit with aiding the media in the destruction of a decent man. Not because you accused him directly. Because up to now you have never put the same scrutiny on the shitty media sources that you have put on this candidate.

164 Why not? Allred said the Senate should supoena Cain & the women.

^{Is she REALLY a lawyer? Or does she just play one on TV?}

Posted by: rickb223 at November 09, 2011 11:49 AM (zji3t)

she said that because once you are subpoenaed and testify before the senate or the congress, everyone pretends you didn't testify and ignores you.

trust me, I know

165
alliteration

Karen Krashcar
Daffy Duck

166 The real story that no one, not even our intrepid Ace, seems to see is that this is a story of Old School meets New World. Cain is definitely Old School. No young man today would say with raised hand to a woman, "You're about the same height as my wife." Just wouldn't do it. Cain not only said it, he keeps saying it as if it's no biggee. This shows he really doesn't "get it." This is his biggest problem: he's not in touch with the New World Order. I'm not saying I agree with the New World Order -- I don't, for the most part -- but you have to get it. That's part of being an effective leader. Cain can unashamedly say he's innocent of all sexual harrassment charges because in his mind using the old rules, he is. He didn't put his pecker in anyone against their will. That's the Old School rule. So he's an innocent man.

167 You're a witless joke.

Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at November 09, 2011 11:48 AM (o/UM0)

your projecting jackass

168 Amazing how all these broads are comin' outta da woodwork- ain't it?

It's all so coordinated.


heh heh heh


*scratches nutsack*

169 >>>I in no way see a coordinated conspiracy. I do see like minds following a narrative which is what narratives are for. This does not have to be a conspiracy for a handful of like minds in a group of 300 million people to to come forward under a theme of sexual harrassment and make such allegatiosn. a plausible way to put it. However, I have to say it seems unlikely to me that four people would all take offense to his behavior. In Kraushaar's case, we might have that kind of a problem, because, if I remember this right, I think she only filed AFTER learning of the other woman filing-- it might be a case with her of Sudden Sexual Harassment Realization. Given her bullshit, personally, to me, she's now a False Accuser. But I still am having trouble figuring out how the other three could be False Accusers. It would seem to be a conspiracy of Very Bad Luck for Cain, in that case. Plus, I hate to go off the record into rumor-ville, but I don't hear the number is four.

170 90% of liberal "I'm offended" nonsense comes from 5% of people.

171

I want to believe Cain. This whoole things feels like a racist-democrat witch hunt. Shades of Anita Hill. But we don't have a f*cking crystal ball.

172
Today is not a good for Conservatism.

We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.

173 Women are like computers: They get slower and slower at performing the same tasks, they freeze up no matter how many times you boot them and you end up replacing them with a newer model.

There's a joke about Macs in there somewhere.

174 Whole thing

175 You're going to get that press conference, ace

(link to Time)

176

@ 155 What do you want me to say Mendez? Ban curious so you can give me a +1?

Ban curious. 

I need every +1 I can get.

177 "163 Women are like computers: They get slower and slower at performing the same tasks, they freeze up no matter how many times you boot them and you end up replacing them with a newer model." Now that's funny. Because it's true.

178 Say what you will about all those 'a's, it's nothing compared to the power of consecutive vowels.

(Maybe he spelled it 'Caeain' back then?)

179 #170 +1

180 >>>Cain is definitely Old School. No young man today would say with raised hand to a woman, "You're about the same height as my wife." Just wouldn't do it. Cain not only said it, he keeps saying it as if it's no biggee. This shows he really doesn't "get it." If the allegations were about stuff like that, then yeah, this would just be an old school guy victimized by new school offense-mongering. But Bialek is not alleging that sort of thing. I have a feeling that that IS the sort of thing this complainey-face Kraushaar is alleging. We'll see about the other two.

181 you guys haven't picked up that Cain is playing it like the dems?  he's blamed everyone but the buddist nuns in tibet.  He's said ten different stories.  The man has a mind like a steel trap.  this is being done deliberately.

182 How is it that we're learning of personnel matters for the accusers, which should be protected, but not seeing Cain's personnel file(s) from NRA, Godfather's Pizza, and his other employers? 

183 We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.
We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.
We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.
We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.
We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.

Because it needed to be repeated and bolded apparently.

184

163

 

Close thread. We have a winner.

BTW, THAT is going up on Fb. F 'em.

185

We need to be focusing on who can whether the storm and respond according when (not if) the accusations come flying -- esp when they have notice they're about to be published.

When I see him bumbling  around (last week more than this week) and I see conservatives giving money to him I think -- what the bloody hell?!

Do conservatives want us to lose in 2012? Do they have a fucking deathwish or something?

That's where we're headed.

if that was all it was about i'd be right in w/ ace. for me, and I know you and others disagree, it's what I see as glee from folks about this circus. that's where I find myself w/ the Caniacs, anything else I'd be disagreeing with them on. I too hope he's not the nominee

186 Why not? Allred said the Senate should supoena Cain & the women.

^{Is she REALLY a lawyer? Or does she just play one on TV?}

Posted by: rickb223 at November 09, 2011 11:49 AM

Nope, she's actually one of us.

187

O/T but I just read a headline on a local news site as "new website urges teens to stay off math" and it made me laugh, but then I realized it said "stay off meth"

Too bad, because a website devoted to staying off math would be hi-larious. (sorry AmishDude)

188 Posted by: Dave at November 09, 2011 11:51 AM (Xm1aB) So you and Ace both think that there's a chance that Cain is guilty, but Ace thinks the evidence weighs heavier on the guilty side. Despite giving excellent reasons why he feels this way, he's branded as crazy. How the hell does that make sense?

189 I want to believe Cain. This whoole things feels like a racist-democrat witch hunt. Shades of Anita Hill.

See, I get this.  This is why I've been harping on "he's been acting guilty."  Frankly, I want to believe Cain.  I don't want to think that anyone on our side would be stupid enough to have attempted a sexual assault (the claim of at least one of the women) and then run for President.

But it would be really nice if he'd acted innocent- either by saying (and sticking with) "Prove it," or by saying, "Here's what happened.  If that's 'sexual harassment,' that's news to me."  He did neither.

190

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 09, 2011 11:53 AM (+inic)

bro you got a + in your hash, that's an infinite + for you

191 But I still am having trouble figuring out how the other three could be False Accusers.

It could well be follow the leader - one accuses, they settle, others see a payday.  This happens distressingly often.  I call it 'paying the Danegeld', and it's about as effective.

That said, I have no idea what actually happened.  I'm just kinda forced to note that the scenario has hardly outrageous or unusual.

192

129 The woman was pointing out that it was a non-confrontational, amiable-looking encounter.....where Cain was leaning over to her so she could whisper in his ear [it was noisy there]....and Cain was smiling and responding to her. He then walked away and went on stage to speak.

So...Cain supposedly harassed her, but she's perfectly willing to have idle chit chat with him? Really?

That's along the lines of Anita Hill choosing to keep working for Clarence Thomas even when offered the same position working for someone else while he was supposedly harassing her - it just doesn't make sense.

-------

Right. ....That was exactly the point that the Cain-supporter lady was trying to make. And Megyn Kelly got it too.

Now, Cain may not have remembered that recent encounter, as some are saying.....but that supporter on Megyn Kelly's show seemed to say that Cain acted like he knew her, and did recognize her.....and there was no animosity on display in that encounter.

 

193 176
Today is not a good for Conservatism.

We have a lot of shit to fix in our own movement, folks.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 09, 2011 11:53 AM (sqkOB)

You really think I can't dig up shit on any one of your candidates?

You could run Mother f*ckin Teresa, and me and my media lackeys would have that broad lookin' like one of the members of da fuggin Manson family.

*scratches nutsack*

194 118 @44. Yeah, I think at this point, Mark Block needs to be fired.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 09, 2011 11:40 AM (21lBC)

Block is an embarassment, imagine if Cain was to win the nomination. really? that guy running a camapiagn against David Axelrod?

The campaign's "apology" was terrible as well. They said Block made that judgment about whether Josh Kraushaar was Karen Kraushaar's son based on available information. No apology was given for his accusation that J. Kraushaar still works for Politico, an idea which is debunked by a simple Bing search or glance at Twitter. 

195 33 @ 28 Boy, that Cain sure knows how to pick 'em, huh?

Yeah, anybody with that poor taste should NOT be President.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 09, 2011 11:26 AM (+inic) 

Which is why we should have elected Teh Fred! for the hottest first lady ever.

196 which should be protected, but not seeing Cain's personnel file(s) from NRA, Godfather's Pizza, and his other employers? 

Posted by: Y-not at November 09, 2011 11:54 AM (5H6zj)

I thought the acussers had to allow that to get out there or am I wrong?

197 I believe all these women attended college, I wonder if they all majored in Womenz Studies, or Victim Studies.

198 O/T:  A reminder from Beck that we are having a test of the EAS system at 2 pm eastern.  Beck says it is history making as it has never been done before and wasn't even used after 9/11

199 Hell, if all this turns out to be a complete BS setup job, I'LL give Cain a hummer.

200

@ 195 bro you got a + in your hash, that's an infinite + for you

 

Sweeeeeeeeet

201 If you're proposing a conspiracy, I want the fucking details of how this was accomplished -- did the liberal machine know Herman Cain was running for President in 1999?

Well if you want to go with the current best alternate I have.

1. The two filed complaints are real; but not substantive.
2. The roll out was planned using the two documented claims as foundation. The documented claims were a weakness and an opportunity, but not enough by themselves. Specific details of the documented accounts would be kept vague.
3. The detailed undocumented account was fabricated to color the real documented accounts with the same brush; Since the details were vague from those accounts, folks would use the details from one account to fill in the blanks in the others.
4. We now have a serial harasser.

This assumes Bailek is flat out lying, and has convinced some friends to lie to help, and that she has been co-opted by someone.

This theory gives Occam a big fat finger in the face. And I rate it's current probability at 15% or less, or "very unlikely".

This theory would also assume competence in setting this up; which would mean Bailek's details will either turn out to be true or unverifiable. Big things to look for, are the solid details, the hotel upgrade, and the Italian dinner, if they somehow cannot be verified true or false, that ups the probability of this scenario.


There are other Not Guilty scenarios for a total of 25%, but this one remains the most probable.

202 Ace, But Bialek is probably lying. She called the frickin' head of a huge organization, a black guy, asked him to go out for coffee, got in a car with him alone ... I'm not accepting one whit of what she said as true.

203

Too bad, because a website devoted to staying off math would be hi-larious. (sorry AmishDude)

Posted by: ParanoidStillAGirlInSeattle at November 09, 2011 11:55 AM (RZ8pf)

yes! yes! good idea, math sucks

+1,000 to you paranoid just to piss polynikes off

204 wow, they are going to an awful lot of trouble to take Rush's show off the air in the third hour.

205 lacy, I really think people like spinning. I mentioned in a comment a couple of days ago about people who got addicted to word-parsing to spin for Clinton, and would not stop. I think some people don't view Cain's possibly disqualifying past as a problem, but as a pastime. I don't want to have to spend the time necessary to spin this crap. There's a lot of complaints -- "We should be talking about OBAMA!" Why yes, we should be. And yet, here we are. Diverted on to this matter. But some think it's well-advised to continue on with this.

206 Any nefarious foes will be able to take over this country with an unloaded pistol in a few years.  If King Putt is re-christened, we might as well throw in our cards.

207 Axlerod doesn't have a nutsack. He makes do with two M&Ms in a baggie.

208 >>>But Bialek is probably lying. She called the frickin' head of a huge organization, a black guy, asked him to go out for coffee, got in a car with him alone ... I'm not accepting one whit of what she said as true. What?! You're saying she should have/would have exhibited the Fear of a Black Man that you seem to?

209 Why can't we ask Cain and Bialek's driver what happened?

210 If we only focused on Obama here at this website, the national media would totally leave this issue alone

211
re: the EAS thing

I didn't hear Beck's remarks at all. When I first heard of this test the other day my first thought was how odd it seemed.

FEMA is getting way too involved in shit, if you ask me.

212

>>>Why can't we ask Cain and Bialek's driver what happened?

 

Why ask him when the whole incident was caught on HBO's Taxi Cab Confessions: Season 3.

213 Why can't we ask Cain and Bialek's driver what happened?

Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2011 12:00 PM (I2LwF)

seeing that hotel upgrade bussiness and going through that lie detector he talked about would help him but that would be tto smart for the Cain campaign

214 Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 11:59 AM (nj1bB)

I was thinking about this.  Holder testified I think yesterday and we haven't heard anything.  And some attorney admitted sending an email slamming the F & F whistle blower and then resigned.  And the Penn State thing.  And Olympus lying all those years and the economy in Europe imploding.

I see your point.

215 I will say this, Block is a blockhead and having him lead the campaign says a lot about Cains judge of competency or original seriousness of running for president. I just don't see how any serious candidate could have picked Mark Block after seeing him in action.

216 I have a feeling that that IS the sort of thing this complainey-face Kraushaar is alleging.

That type of thing really isn't my bag, man.

217 Serously.  There was presumably a third party there when Cain gave Bialek a ride home.

218

Why ask him when the whole incident was caught on HBO's Taxi Cab Confessions: Season 3.

Posted by: Ben at November 09, 2011 12:01 PM (wuv1c)

holy crap that was funny

219
And has anyone else noticed that "states of emergency" are being declared a lot more often lately?

If a leaf falls off a tree, Deval Patrick declares a state of emergency in MA.

220 Hey, I have an idea! Why don't we make up a story about Obama and run with that and make him deny it! And if he doesn't adequately dismiss, he is automatically disqualified!

221 I was just trying to reach for the Gummi Venus de Milo she sat on.

222 Posted by: Soothsayer at November 09, 2011 12:00 PM (sqkOB)

Beck said it at 11:55 just before most people switch to Rush.

223 Is the group presser going to happen? And is it going to be all blonde, white women? Can we pay a black chick to falsely accuse him just to have a more diverse inquisition. Maybe a filipino, too? Filipino's are great cause their names confuse people and it's kinda like getting a two-fer -- an asian and a hispanic.

224

Any nefarious foes will be able to take over this country with an unloaded pistol in a few years.  If King Putt is re-christened, we might as well throw in our cards.

We would have succeeded except for that board with the nail in it.

But, one day they'll build a board with a nail so large, it destroys them all.

Hahahahahaha!

225 Not after this.  If he actually comes out this looking GOOD...I fear he'll be godlike and invincible to the extremely stupid segment of the populace that already thought he was a good candidate.

They were already in on Cain out of a purely emotional reaction...and that emotion would be amped up ten thousandfold. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM (hIWe1)

I'm not sure about that. There's still plenty of ways for him to implode, though I realize that Iowa is in just a few weeks so there isn't a whole lot of time. Still, those first couple of races are all about culling the herd and since they're all proportional (according to Vic) they won't be worth as much as they otherwise would have. Super Tuesday is a long way off.

I say all this as someone who has been leaning towards Gingrich for the last six weeks or so, which I never thought would be possible.

226

Great op-ed in Monday's WSJ, "Sexual Harrassment's Legal Morass" by Curt Levey. 

"...Employers often make financial settlements even when evidence of actual sexual harassment is lacking or ambiguous....It's particularly tempting for employers to settle before litigation which results in a public record....settling sexual harassment complaints makes good financial sense for employers in light of the lottery-like awarding of punitive and emotional distress damagesand unpredictable 'severe and pervasive' standard they face in court.  In a 1990's CA case, a jury awarded an employee of law firm Baker & McKenzie $7 million in punitive damages for sexual harassment despite finding only $50,000 in actual damages. 

Defendents who lose sexual harassment cases in court have to pay the plaintiff's attorney fees--$1.9 million in the Baker McKenzie case--but are rarely awarded attorney fees when they lose.  Even in the best case scenario where an employer avoids trial and prevails on summary judgment, the employer will ring up a legal bill of $100,000 or so.

The National Restaurant Association got off inexpensively if, as reported, it settled with 2 complaints against Mr. Cain for $35,000 and $45,000.  The cost is considerably higher when there is convincing evidence of harassment.  Bill Clinton's settlement with Paula Jones cost him $850,000."

 

 

227 If Cain has this much trouble with allegations of sexual harassment, how is President Cain and his team going to deal with PR issues brought by not just the domestic MBM, but by foreign press agencies who may be looking to deal his Administration a PR blow?

It is how Cain and his team have dealt with this whole mess that concerned me more than the allegations themselves.  Lord help us all if an issue comes up during Cain's Presidency that needs a carefully-crafted media response and they only get one try to do it correctly. 

228

>>>Serously. There was presumably a third party there when Cain gave Bialek a ride home.

 

Truman, do you honestly believe that a cab or limo driver remembers every person?  This was in 1997? The drive probably drove several other people that night.

The only piece of evidence that could objectively prove or disprove her story would be the Hilton's record about an upgrade or not.

The Hilton won't release it now. However, you can bet your ass if Cain wins the nomination, a democratic staffer will get those records.

229

>>>I was just trying to reach for the Gummi Venus de Milo she sat on.

her sweet sweet can....

230

Why ask him when the whole incident was caught on HBO's Taxi Cab Confessions: Season 3.

It was actually an episode of our show and she did worse than Wolf Blitzer on Jeopardy.

231 - I think Cain might be guilty -- Me too and here's why --- - Woah, woah! Calm down! Don't go jumping the gun! What are you, a liberal?!

232 She should be the poster child for whiny women at work everywhere -- they don't get exactly what they want, it's because they're a woman (not because it doesn't make sense). Someone makes a harmless joke, it's now a hostile work environment. $35k was cheap to get rid of her. Her type of hypersensitivity, immaturity and narcissism ("everything is about me!") hurts workers who have legit complaints. Grow up.

233 >>>It could well be follow the leader - one accuses, they settle, others see a payday. This happens distressingly often. I call it 'paying the Danegeld', and it's about as effective. This is possible, but in this case it is not a conspiracy or an "intricate hit." What I am blowing gaskets over is the conspiracists who think that Axelrod went back in time to plant two complaints. Bear in mind, if Bialek actually did tell two people about the harassment in 1999 or whenever, the question comes up, "Why?" She did not subsequently sue, so there was no payday. She did not, as far as we know, seek to extort Cain with a false charge (he says he never saw her before in his life). So what would her motive have been for planting this Evidence in 1999? It is bizarre to even think, "Oh, well, she knew Cain was going to run for high office so she, along with some secret liberal minders, fabricated evidence that she would spring on him in 2011." It's not possible. Now, we actually haven't seen those statements yet from the alleged hearsay witnesses, so I am officially re-caveating this with the "assuming those statements say what Allred says they say."

234 I think some people don't view Cain's possibly disqualifying past as a problem, but as a pastime.

Do people know we have bloggers saying "what he doesn't know we'll teach him"? Well one blogger anyway.

I cannot for the life of me understand people that want to defend this candidacy. Defend the charges. Fine. I think that's fair as all the bumbling around his campaign did I'm not even sure I believe these women. In fact, I lean towards believing him. But....

Do we really want someone that needs on-the-job training to go up against Obama?

I'm terrified at what I see conservatives doing right now. Down right pissing my pants scared.

235

@122. Well, I've done over 30 years and never filed a formal complaint or seen anyone else do so in a very large organization working in multiple divisions. I think that is most folks experience, when they have a problem with someone they settle it informally right then. She could be like the unlucky cop who has to shoot a couple of people in a career vice the norm of never having to draw the weapon. Without knowing all the details in each case we can't assess whether she is a complainer or just unlucky in working in environments where things couldn't get resolved at the lowest level informally.

236

It is how Cain and his team have dealt with this whole mess that concerned me more than the allegations themselves.  Lord help us all if an issue comes up during Cain's Presidency that needs a carefully-crafted media response and they only get one try to do it correctly. 

+1, yep Im more concerned w/ his horrible PR then the allegations themselves, Obama would carve this guy up

237 Why yes, we should be. And yet, here we are. Diverted on to this matter.

At this point I want to know the truth. Not for Cain's sake but for ours. If this is a setup, it is on a level previously not seen in a presidential election, it is another level of low the Dems and the MFM have come to and we need to be on guard for it hereafter.

238 64 They make one thing.
Bill Mitchell at November 09, 2011 11:24 AM (uVlA4)

Hey now, they have hot wings, too.
___________

Sure, *now*. That was the last 9 in the 9-9-9 plan for Godfather's.

239 @151. I'm Nigerian. I know the guy. It's a good deal, so go for it. Just kidding. (First statement is true, though.)

240
Taking over the airwaves (suppressing speech) isn't that crazy of a suspicion.

As I mentioned, the scope of states of emergencies is expand, thus the reasons or excuses to interrupt broadcasts are built into the new policies and definitions of 'emergency.'

241

You gotta be some kinda idiot to believe that Cain sexually harassed "Three" different women publically.

There is absolutley not one peice of evidence that any of this stuff happend behind closed doors.

Those of you who don't like Cain are one thing, but to honestly believe that Cain did this stuff....your showing yourself to be complete baffoons!

Even Clinton did his shit behind closed doors!

242 Reemember when the MFM asked Clinton to take a lie detector test?

243 Cain has Block because when he hired Block Cain had no chance and was basically on a book tour. All the pros were on other campaigns.

Cain's staff was only like 6 people until about two weeks ago.

244 ~ tap tap tap tap tap ~ .. yes, it is echoing now like the voice inside cave in southern Afghanistan-an-an-an And so ... it is I, Hadji, the longest surviving member of the Allah-ha-ha Muslim Comic Brigade, here to bring you what you Americans most need - teh funny. Did you here the one where Herman Cain did not harass a female employee? ... Me neither. What Do a Taxi Driver, a Bus Driver, and Herman Cain have in Common? ... They stop when they are told. How is Herman Cain like Donovan McNabb? .... Neither can complete a pass. thank you thank you thank you Remember, if it's not Hadji .. it is dodgy. Tip your waitstaff.

245 O/T related to the EAS thing. While I am not comfortable with the idea of the White House being able to take over the airwaves at any time they wish (the system is triggered from the White House) I will say that doing a drill of an emergency system is usually a good idea. Having participated in emergency drills I know firsthand that unexpected shit happens and stuff that shouldn't break does break. Frankly I'd rather they find that out now, rather than when the aliens are invading.

246 Truman, do you honestly believe that a cab or limo driver remembers every person?  This was in 1997? The drive probably drove several other people that night.

If this was an episode of Law and Order, the driver would remember every detail, including some minor thing which would crack the case.

247

Cain has Block because when he hired Block Cain had no chance and was basically on a book tour. All the pros were on other campaigns.

Block is one of the #1 reasons I fear a Cain nomination

248 Bwhahaha!  Rush just called himself the Grand Wizard of the radio airwaves in a nod to David Gregory.  Heh!

249

@239. Well, I don't know who I'll vote for yet, but I don't want some republican who's just going to take us down the same path of increasing government size/expense/control/regulation at a slightly slower pace than Obama.

Whether you go over the cliff at 30 or 180, it's still a disaster.

250 I'm terrified at what I see conservatives doing right now. Down right pissing my pants scared.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 09, 2011 12:04 PM (AdRY3)

I think I can help you with that.

251

@ 196 It could well be follow the leader - one accuses, they settle, others see a payday.

Once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane.

252

110....If you're proposing a conspiracy, I want the fucking details of how this was accomplished -- did the liberal machine know Herman Cain was running for President in 1999?

Ace, Cain ran for President in 2000.

I know it sounds crazy to suggest that the Dems might have engineered these complaints against Cain back in the 90's......but given the rabid vindictiveness of the Clintons, especially Hillary.....I have wondered about this possibility myself.

Cain had done the unthinkable.....a black man who had spoken out against HillaryCare. This could have put him on their radar.

253 >>>he woman was pointing out that it was a non-confrontational, amiable-looking encounter.....where Cain was leaning over to her so she could whisper in his ear [it was noisy there]....and Cain was smiling and responding to her. He then walked away and went on stage to speak. That's not what she said at all. She said there was an intensity you could cut with a knife. She did not say Cain was "smiling." this is bullshit you're making up because you'd like it to be the case.

254 I've missed a few days, so... If we imagine that these accusations never were leveled at Herman Cain, wouldn't he still be a disaster of a candidate? Would he not be like the Perfect Shit-storm, combining the affable cluelessness of Ross Perot, the annoying narcissism of Sarah Palin and the magnetic sexual pull of a young Bob Dole? In other words, pretend it's a month ago. All you know about Cain are the policies he proposes. Now, raise your hand if you support Herman Cain's candidacy. Put your hand down, dumbshit.

255

22

Well Jeff B, if you and Ace had tried to discredit Cain on issues rather than use out and out character assasination without facts, you might not have to worry about Cain coming out ahead.

What I find truly funny is that you admit that there is a possibility you have been wrong all this time, yet the Caniacs are the stupid ones.

You sure you aren't a Democrat ?

256 Cain is the best of the imperfect lot.

Perry called me heartless.

Romney created Obama Care light.

Gingrich has too much baggage, also he sat on a couch with Pelosi.

Bachmann destroyed herself with the Gardasil crap

Forget about the rest.

If you guys saw United 93 where at the end the passengers revolted and
stormed the cockpit and dragged the kind of sort of pilot in a last ditch effort
to save themselves and avert disaster, well we are going to drag Herman Cain, as imperfect a candidate as he is all the way to the White House.

Period. Dot. Bingo!!!

257
Can anyone here remember one time when the Emergency Broadcast System provided an actual service during an emergency?

Just one. Anyone?

258

Even Clinton did his shit behind closed doors!

 

Uh, no he didn't...

259
Then we have the Crazy Train crap with people claiming an "intricate hit" -- apparently Old Sailor's Poet thinks that David Axelrod has a time machine and put these complaints in Cain's file in 1999.

Why would it have to be that complex?

One first question, how often do senior executives get accused of harassment in modern America? Is two abnormally high? Low? Average?

Presume for a minute it is the norm - it doesn't take much of a conspiratorial mind to think that the Democrats can and would find any such agreements entered by Cain's employer, nor that they would then leverage that to get others to "come forward" for reasons nothing to do with Cain's conduct with them.

260 "I am not related in any way to Karen Kraushaar, and I haven't worked at Politico since June 2010."

Posted by: Y-not at November 09, 2011 11:27 AM (5H6zj)

Although Block was dead wrong in saying that he was Karen's son and beclowned himself and Cain, I think it would be nearly impossible for two people whose name is "Kraushaar" not to be related in some way. 

261 Reemember when the MFM asked Clinton to take a lie detector test?

See this is what I'm saying.

Yes, it sucks for our candidates to be treated like this.

And.......?

Been there/done that.

If we think we can win elections by bitching about media bias our goose is cooked.

262 @210 You're blaming others for being preoccupied with this subject? My gosh man, that is rich. I don't want Cain for the nominee. Didn't want him for various reasons before all this shit hit the fan. But I'll be damned if I'll skip down the path of condemnation paved for me by the leftist media and potential political opponents or opportunists or whatever. Yeah, I am more suspicious of these types of attacks because I have seen them perpetrated repeatedly by the leftist media and liberals for decades--f*cking decades.

263 Good luck using that sound reasoning, Jeff. Here's what you'll get in response: "I don't support Cain as a candidate, I just think it's so unfair what the msm and some people on this blog are saying about him."

264 >>>What I find truly funny is that you admit that there is a possibility you have been wrong all this time, yet the Caniacs are the stupid ones. What I find truly funny is that you think that people willing to consider the possibility that they are wrong must be stupid, whereas those who never once pause to make that consideration are therefore "not stupid." I sort of think it's the opposite-- which is the real issue underlying all of these other squabbles.

265
Amy Whatshername's account varied a bit. She recounted one version and then on Laura's show she gave a slightly different version.

But Amy was consistent with one detail: Bialek rushed over to Herman and hugged him.

266

>>>Well Jeff B, if you and Ace had tried to discredit Cain on issues rather than use out and out character assasination without facts, you might not have to worry about Cain coming out ahead.

 

Actually, people were bitching about bloggers tearing the stupid 9-9-9 plan apart well before these allegations arose.

There were a ton of complaints against them then back when they were focusing on "the issues".

 

He was an awful candidate before the allegations and he's going to be borderline toxic after them.

It's not like he's Reagan, he's not even all that conservative if you look at the issues. I think this is more of an instance of people wanting him to be conservative and therefore convincing themself he is very conservative.

267

Well Jeff B, if you and Ace had tried to discredit Cain on issues rather than use out and out character assasination without facts, you might not have to worry about Cain coming out ahead.

Be honest, the 999 plan, the abortion mish-mash, the lack of foreign policy knowlege.  These have all been fodder for posts.

268 @ 261 Cain is the best of the imperfect lot.

Perry called me heartless.

Romney created Obama Care light.

Gingrich has too much baggage, also he sat on a couch with Pelosi.

Bachmann destroyed herself with the Gardasil crap

Forget about the rest.

At this point, Romney is the only one I'd actually NOT vote for, if he were to win the nomination.  The rest, I could at least swallow the gorge and vote for.  Even Rick Perry.  After all, maybe if he creates enough jobs, there'll still be some left over for Americans after the illegals have all gotten one.

269

Perry called me heartless.

Romney created Obama Care light.

Gingrich has too much baggage, also he sat on a couch with Pelosi.

Bachmann destroyed herself with the Gardasil crap

Yeh, but I am heartless, so that doesn't bother me that much. 

270 I'm going back to the DOOM thread. Less depressing there.

271 >>>You're blaming others for being preoccupied with this subject? I'm sorry, is this just me? I thought it was the most-covered story generally for the last week and a half.

272 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 09, 2011 12:08 PM (vzFJV)

Oh no, we must support him in his doomed-to-failure bid to unseat the cocksucker-in-chief, because he is being targeted by the MBM! And we must stick together!

Or some such shit. It makes no fucking sense that so many seemingly rational conservatives are jumping on this guy's bandwagon.

He was an idiot before the allegations...and he is an idiot now.

273

Cain isn't getting the nomination anyway...I just can't beleive how many of you are "not in the game"

The only reason this is an issue, is because the Republican establishment does not want to be forced to pick Cain as Romney's Running Mate.

The Republican establishment is not behind this, but they don't want Cain on the ticket either.

When is everybody gonna figure out that your Nominee has already been picked...it's Romney...because that is the only Candidate the Left accepts as "legitimate." The issue now is Romney's Running Mate. You should have known since early spring that you would have to make a decision either your taking Romney.....or your leaving Obama in place....that is all you got. I know it's shitty. If the Right attempts to buck Romney for the nomination, the establishment will ensure Obama wins.....Have Fun with That!

274
When I want to 'confront' someone for trying to tickle my pee-pee without an invitation, the first thing I do when I see him/her is run over and hug him/her.

275

<<You know, if this all turns out to be a bunch of trumped-up BS, I'm going to have to eat a whole shitton of crow.>>

You should know by now that any time libs and/or journalists (but I repeat myself) accuse a conservative of something illegal or immoral, it's usually trumped up.  Wait and see.  I guarantee if there's something actually to it, the evidence will surface.  Shame on anyone for actually believing anything these traitorous liars say.

276 This is possible, but in this case it is not a conspiracy or an "intricate hit."

Didn't say it was, and frankly it's beside the point at this stage--you don't have to assume a decade-long conspiracy, just some extensive opposition research, deep pockets, media compliance, and a total lack of morals, ethics, or scruples to turn a likely nothingburger into a massive smear campaign.

The worst part of which is, if his crisis management skills weren't the risible mess they've been revealed to be, he'd probably be able to come through stronger.  Alas, he got exposed, not as a serial sexual harasser, but as someone not ready for the big time, the big fact that gets lost in the whole soap opera.

277

Just one. Anyone?

They are effective for tornado warnings where there aren't designated tornado sirens. Also, flash floods. Also, the system is being used for Amber alerts and I believe due to the alert a few months ago here in the NW the police were able to rescue a child that had been abducted.

278 [From morning thread, because I can only get away with this at lunch]

85% of Americans are among the world's rich.  The rest are middle-class.  There are no poor Americans.

Our secrets?  Faith in the free market and suspicion of government.

Fuck liberals.

Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2011 07:56 AM (I2LwF)

Liberals generations ago understood we do very well (note Khrushchev's remarks on our gov't housing on his visit), thought we could do even better (esp. for certain segments of the population), and knew we were comfortable enough to do so (because everyone wanted American cars, radios, telephones, lawnmowers, etc.).

Then we stopped being that country.  For the last 25 years or so, instead of revising expectations of government, most libs seem to have doubled/tripled quadrupled down on failure.

I saw a Republican run a Great Society program better than any Democrat could and started thinking "Hey, maybe they should be allowed to modify these things, and not just administrate them every once in a while". We could do better with much less, with less waste and fraud. But there would be less "good government" White liberals and African-Americans in public service, and we can't have that.

Jesus, I played football a long time ago, never had a neck in high school. As I get older and shrink down to an Al Pachino-sized little rubbery dude, it's really hard not to notice how freaking enormous our children and poor people are.

[back to work, schmucks]

279 By the way, Cain sowed the seeds for his further destruction yesterday when he said "There will probably be others".

If you think his response to these other allegations has been wanting, you haven't seen anything yet. 

280 >>>It's not like he's Reagan, he's not even all that conservative if you look at the issues. I think this is more of an instance of people wanting him to be conservative and therefore convincing themself he is very conservative. Exactly. No matter how many times I mention "abortion is a family choice" or "Trade all the terrorists in GItmo for one Al Qaeda hostage? I could DEFINITELY make that deal!," they just ignore it and say "True Conservative."

281 Cain, Perry, Romney, Gingrich....whoever....

I can stir up enough shit on anyone you fuck wads nominate.

I'll get you retards in a circular firing ring blowing each others tiny little brains out.

.....and you'll thank me.


*scratches nuts*

282 But I still am having trouble figuring out how the other three could be False Accusers. It could well be follow the leader - one accuses, they settle, others see a payday. This happens distressingly often. I call it 'paying the Danegeld', and it's about as effective. Yep. Happens all the time. And wasn't one of the "accusations" that Cain allegedly told someone that someone else was attractive. Pretty weak stuff.

283 The Cain train has jumped the tracks, of course, but this doesn't portend poorly on the Repubs chances in 2012. In fact, it helps us. First, Cain has defused the race charges on the tea party. It's true, a lot of black libs are saying he was an Uncle Tom, the white guy's black friend, etc., but those ring hollow. Tea partiers liked Cain, straight up. They defended him against sex charges. The race card is now off the table. Second, this makes Mitt, the ultimate nominee, more attractive. He's been a faithful husband. He's a Mormon, for God's sake. He's had to be. Third, the whole affair has focused continuing attention on the Republicans. The air has gone completely out of Obama's sails. Like they say on Broadway, any review is a good review. Eventually we'll have a nominee (Romney, like it or not) and he will, like the Gumby that he is, have been shaped into the most acceptable candidate for all Repubs. I'm not on his bandwagon, but every day he becomes more acceptable, both because of his Gumby bends and because the others are falling off the stage.

284 All of this stuff convinces me that Romney should drop out of the race.  He is making us all nuts in selecting anybody but him.

285 You see, here is where Cain fucked up.... He should have been out in front of this. He tried to play dumb and now looks dumb. Now these women will go full bore because their lefty lawyers smell blood. These women have nothing to lose. The left will hail them as heros just like Palin's former almost son-in-law. I guess these women will be making some snarky nut commercials now.

286 It almost feels like a huge waste of time arguing with these idiots...

287

>>>Well Jeff B, if you and Ace had tried to discredit Cain on issues rather than use out and out character assasination without facts, you might not have to worry about Cain coming out ahead.

>>>Be honest, the 999 plan, the abortion mish-mash, the lack of foreign policy knowlege. These have all been fodder for posts.

 

You left out that he supports states rights to violate the second amendment.

He's a gun grabber people!!  I seem to recall that disqualifying Chris Christie in the minds of many conservatives just a few months ago.

But since it's Herman Cain, it's no big deal.

If he really was a rock ribbed conservative, I might understand the loyalty to him, but he isn't. He's arguably less conservative than most everyone else in the race save Romney, Paul and Hunstman.

288 Name yer fuckin' candidate-


and I'll destroy em!



*scratches giant nutsack*

289 mama aj i'm heartless too....so it didn't bother me either

290 I'm terrified at what I see conservatives doing right now. Down right pissing my pants scared.

I'm done being scared. I'm into acceptance. Even if superman were running, and got elected, and we won the Senate, and McConnell and Boehner both got spine transplants, And they went in like a ball of fire in Jan13, I would still give them only a 1 in 4 chance of actually avoiding DOOM. I actually think there is a 50% chance we hit DOOM prior to 2013, so this entire exercise may be for naught.

 With the candidates we have, imagining we nominate the best one, and win with him/her, and take the Senate, but Boehner and McConnell continue to be who they are. Chances of avoiding DOOM 1 in 10.

Our real shot at avoiding DOOM was during the debt ceiling debate, and we lost.

291

@ 272  It's not like he's Reagan, he's not even all that conservative if you look at the issues. I think this is more of an instance of people wanting him to be conservative and therefore convincing themself he is very conservative.

Compared to Romney, he's William F. Buckley.

292

The complaint also cited as objectionable an email that a manager had circulated comparing computers to women and men, a former supervisor said. The complaint claimed that the email, based on humor widely circulated on the Internet, was sexually explicit, according to the supervisor, who did not have a copy of the email. The joke circulated online lists reasons men and women were like computers, including that men were like computers because “in order to get their attention, you have to turn them on.” Women were like computers because “even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval.”

 

If I had a dollar for every time I was uncomfortable or was sexually harassed at work, I'd be in the 1%.  Seriously!  The thing with the left is that they are so hypersensitive and thin skinned.  It's absolutely pathetic.

293 Apropos of nothing, I think that it's a damn shame that no one is allowed to be drunk or boorish or just plain crass any more without it being an effin federal case.

294 110 Then we have the Crazy Train crap with people claiming an "intricate hit" -- apparently Old Sailor's Poet thinks that David Axelrod has a time machine and put these complaints in Cain's file in 1999.
_________

Well, he does have that time machine he used to insert birth announcements into the Hawaiian newspapers...

295 Nothing good will come out of this. All we can do is watch the train wreck unfold. I just want this to happen fast so we can get it over with. Have the presser, have 20 women up there sing the accusations a capella style, the cast of Glee can join in and do an uptempo version of "Just a Gigolo".

The faster this happens the faster we can move on, one way or another.

296 291 All of this stuff convinces me that Romney should drop out of the race.  He is making us all nuts in selecting anybody but him.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 09, 2011 12:15 PM (JYheX)

Name your candidate-

I'LL DESTROY EM!

*scratches nutsack*

297 Ew, nasty sock!

298 Cain needs to drop out for the good of humanity but, he won't because he's a self-absorbed asshole.

299

Noone is saying we can win elections by bitching about the media.  We are saying we don't need OUR SIDE to contribute.

You don't have to defend the guy, but you CAN stand by and keep your mouth shut.

300
ahhh yes, the good ol' days of Ted Kennedy

301 290 The Cain train has jumped the tracks, of course, but this doesn't portend poorly on the Repubs chances in 2012. In fact, it helps us. First, Cain has defused the race charges on the tea party. It's true, a lot of black libs are saying he was an Uncle Tom, the white guy's black friend, etc., but those ring hollow. Tea partiers liked Cain, straight up. They defended him against sex charges. The race card is now off the table. Second, this makes Perry, the ultimate nominee, more attractive. He's been a faithful husband. He's a Christian, for God's sake. He's had to be. Third, the whole affair has focused continuing attention on the Republicans. The air has gone completely out of Obama's sails. Like they say on Broadway, any review is a good review. Eventually we'll have a nominee (Perry, like it or not) and he will, stand on his convections and will not be shaped like a Gumby.

302

If I had a dollar for every time I was uncomfortable or was sexually harassed at work, I'd be in the 1%.

 

that's because you've got an amazing set of sweater puppies, and your real last name is "Swallows"

303 He's been a faithful husband. He's a Mormon, for God's sake. He's had to be. What? The one thing the Mormons get to do is f--- around, when I lived in Utah the wardhouse was like Peyton Place.

304

>>>Compared to Romney, he's William F. Buckley.

 

Is he?   

Did Romney put forth a plan for a national sales tax?

 

305 MaxMBJ - "Romney looks better every day because of his inconsistencies."

306 Perhaps Ace, Jeff B., Joffen, and Ben can point out all of these rabid Cain supporters posting here about how he's their candidate despite all the dumbass things he's said. There seem to be sooooooo many of them here, offending their delicate sensibilities, that it shouldn't be that difficult.

307 It is bizarre to even think, "Oh, well, she knew Cain was going to run for high office so she, along with some secret liberal minders, fabricated evidence that she would spring on him in 2011."

It's not possible.

Now, we actually haven't seen those statements yet from the alleged hearsay witnesses, so I am officially re-caveating this with the "assuming those statements say what Allred says they say."

Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 12:04 PM (nj1bB)

I am not thinking it's that kind of conspiracy and I don't know what Cane did or didn't do since he has totally fumbled this thing.

Here are things that bother me about these stories though.

1. Billiets past problems

2. Billiet at one time living in the same building as David Axelrod.

3. Billiet not telling anyone about what supposedly happened until now.

3. Kraushaar being hired and best freinds with Maria Cardona a dem operative and strategist that works for CNN.

4. Kraushaar working in the Obama Treasury Dept.

5. Kraushaar being a 2 time greiviance filer. (who has that much bad luck at work?)

6. Kraushaar being a dem donor.

I know it's a small world but how come both of these people have ties to Obama? Kraushaar obviously filed a complaint but she is known for that. Billiet is also known for it and used to live in a building with Obama's top advisor.

That's just too many coincidences.

308 305 Cain needs to drop out for the good of humanity but, he won't because he's a self-absorbed asshole.

Posted by: Barbarian

Being a self absorbed asshole would rule out the Barkster.

309 >>>You should know by now that any time libs and/or journalists (but I repeat myself) accuse a conservative of something illegal or immoral, it's usually trumped up. Jon Ensign. I would disagree with how you put it. I would say that every time a story like this comes out against an R, the media *assumes* the truth of it and behaves that way, and assumes it is the worst possible fact situation for the R. And, to repeat myself, their coverage is shaped with this assumption. However, just because the media always thinks a Republican is guilty does not mean Republicans are not guilty. In fact, they frequently are. One thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is the apparently real belief that True Conservatives and/or believing Christians are very, very unlikely to sin. This does not track with my experience AT ALL. Even if I grant that they are slightly less likely to sin than others, we are talking about a quite a small differential, and not nearly a substantial enough difference so that we can safely bet that the Conservative Is Almost Always Innocent (while meanwhile betting the Liberal Is Almost Always Guilty). I think this idea that the Conservative Must Be Innocent is-- well, true believer stuff. I'm not a believer and I make no bones about that. I hate "belief." The ONE exception I make is that I respect a belief in God. That is a tradition of long standing, and many wise and learned people have had that belief. So I will not hold a True Believer belief in God against anyone. But when I see that True Believer impulse directed to things other than God -- then I start to blow gaskets.

310 I think this is more of an instance of people wanting him to be conservative and therefore convincing themself he is very conservative.

Yup. Like the people that told themselves he did well at the "debate" on Sat night? Why because he said jazzy conservatives buzzwords like "going of f a cliff" and "unsustainable"?

I don't expect candidates to know everything. I do expect for them to at least get the basics down and speak in more than vague generalities.

He's not shown me that he can do any of this.

And yet he's still going strong as a frontrunner candidate? Even after a month?? People keep saying 'just wait, he has no money". Yeah, well he got a shitton of cash last week when these accusations started flying.

Kneejerk reaction to the poor conservative being smeared.

People are taking Buckley's phonebook comment way to effing literally.

311 @290. No, there are a whole lot of repubs who will not vote for Romney. I'm one. If we're gonna elect leaders to drive the country over the cliff, I'd rather they were Dems so they can take the credit/blame. Kind of like Jerry Brown now in CA. Folks kept pointing to how Schwarzeneggar was a republican and supported cap and trade, and all the other ridiculous environmental laws/regs based on flawed/faked data and credentionals to claim the destruction was a bi-partisan effort. Even though the dems have owned the legislature for years and Schawarz certainly didn't fight for conservative approaches. Now they own the whole damn thing and can't make excuses, or claim bi-partisan ship.  

312 Posted by: FederalismIsThePoint at November 09, 2011 12:18 PM (jZapj) Not keeping my mouth shut while an idiot becomes the front runner.

313 138 Kraushaar is not credible to me.
First, who the hell has a last name with the letter "a" three times in it? Obviously a poorly done sock name.
_________

Maybe she's a Quagaar warrior.

314 The warning system is good for tornadoes. Just this past summer I was watching TV and saw a tornado warning, so I spent the next half hour in my basement.

315 If you'd been dating someone for 4 years and they happened to tell you a few days before they flew to NYC to hold a bombshell news conference alleging a candidate for the presidency had grabbed your genitals, wouldn't you wonder what else that person might not have told you?   I sure would.    

316 This could all be solved by prohibiting laws that essentially punish someone for "offending" someone else.

Oh wait, the First Amendment already did that.

So why is there such a thing as sexual harassment law? If offense is so pervasive, why in the world would you want to work in such a place? And wouldn't the market eventually punish business that drive away good employees.

Yet another example of our topsy-turvy country, brought to you by liberalism and lawyers.

317 >>>And wasn't one of the "accusations" that Cain allegedly told someone that someone else was attractive. No, where are you getting that? Wishcasting nonsense.

318 You don't have to defend the guy, but you CAN stand by and keep your mouth shut.

What the fuck kind of statement is this??

If a dipsiht candidate is going to flame out why not have it down now rather than 10 months from now.

We get retards like Herman Cain if we take your stupid advice.

319 If you're religious, isn't it a some kind of sin (idolatry) to direct the power of Faith to anything that is not God or Christ?

320 At least at the Chruch or Cain:Conservative Redeemer they have Pizza Bagels instead of wafers.

321 @277 I have seen many more posters here the last week complaining about the constant Cain posts than "Cainiacs" declaring he's a "true conservative." We just had a reporter yesterday ask Cain to submit to a polygraph---this post-Clinton, and yet somehow that's not worthy of a post on a conservative blog. You sound now as if you're blaming the media for forcing you to put up Cain post after Cain post. I don't care. I don't mind the Cain posts obviously because I spend far too much time yapping my internet jaw around here, but you alone control the content here or at least I presume that to be true.

322 This entire Republican nominating process has been quite entertaining and meaningful. The MSM, in their hatred of all things on the right, have gleefully gone after everybody (except Romney but just wait). Do any of you recall the Democratic process in 2008? They had Edwards, Kucinich, Dodd, and Richardson on the stage, three slimebags and a nut job. And what did they uncover? Hillary's 3:00 a.m. phone call. It all works against them these days. They gave us the boy-god, who they held aloft with the only thing they really possess: hot air. Sadly, they ran out of wind and said boy-god has fallen to the earth with a thud. They are mystified how this can be. So they turn their attention on the Right thinking somehow if you can't win by going positive, do it by going negative. And they are helping produce the greatest nominating process in recent memory. It's win-win-win for us. Seriously.

323

O/T but kind of funny.  One of my running buddies is a die hard, rock ribbed conservative.  His brother and mom are total bleeding heart libtard Democrats.  The other day, his mom was fretting to him that she's worried that the Republicans aren't going to be able to have a good enough candidate that will be able to beat Obama in 2012.  She voted for him, and she is having serious buyer's remorse!  Heh!

324 I still can't figure out how he grabbed her genitals. Is she a man? My lady genitals are between my legs and can't be grabbed from the front if my legs are together. If my legs were apart that's a different story.

325 Christians sin and they sin a lot, just like everyone else does. Using "Christian" as a shield against improper actions is utter folly.

Being a Christian always makes the road harder because a person admits to striving to a perfect standard which we will never achieve here, it never provides a defense against intent and never will.

I am also bothered by anyone using a faith as a shield for intent or actions, there has never been any evidence to support such a correlation.

326

270

Just because the Caniacs decided not to go along with the media (and conservative bloggers') narrative doesn't mean they never considered that Cain may be guilty.

Some people just like a little EVIDENCE before crucifying someone.

327

Rassmussen has Cain down 11 points against Obama today and said the scandle is a reason along with Obama getting 91% of the dem vote.

I think rassmussen is a tool at this point since he polls to the left of NBC and Reuters but this is probably still hurting Cain.

328 Not keeping my mouth shut while an idiot becomes the front runner.

This.  If Cain is such an awesome candidate, surely he can stand some criticism and analysis. 

329

You don't have to defend the guy, but you CAN stand by and keep your mouth shut.

I can't even begin to unpack the stupid in that statement.

The only POSSIBLE time that would be true is in the general election.  And even that's a dubious call.

Libs are supposed to be the dissemblers and "too cute by half" set.

Not us.

330 327 If you're religious, isn't it a some kind of sin (idolatry) to direct the power of Faith to anything that is not God or Christ?

Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 12:23 PM (nj1bB)

of course not!

331 Faith to anything that is not God or Christ?

Not exactly. "No Other God Before Me", doesn't preclude you from having faith in your fellow man so long as you don't place it before your faith in God. I'm sure many of us have a lot of friends we put a lot of faith in. Perhaps you are more upset by blind or unwarranted faith?

332

272

Ben let me be clear.....I DO NOT support Cain (because of everything you said).

I also do not support character assasination without facts.

333 327 If you're religious, isn't it a some kind of sin (idolatry) to direct the power of Faith to anything that is not God or Christ?

Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 12:23 PM (nj1bB)

Faith is a supernatural gift given when a person assents with their mind and their will to belief.

You cannot "direct the power of faith" (I don't know what that means) because faith is provided to you, you don't provide it. You only provide the assent.

334 OT:  That bastard Romney suck in the front because he is a coward.

P.S. A word to the over-educated, under-informed 99%, "snuck" is not a word.

335 327 If you're religious, isn't it a some kind of sin (idolatry) to direct the power of Faith to anything that is not God or Christ?

You'll have to wait for my 20,000 word missive on this theological question, Ace. 

Seriously, even if it isn't a sin, it is just bad practice to put anybody, especially politicians, on such high pedestals where it appears that they become incapable of doing anything wrong or foolish.  It only makes it harder when the illusion fails and the pedestal breaks and crumbles into dust.

336

Let's recap here. (at least this is how i see things)

 

Cain's Problems

1. He's pro-life except he's not

2. He's for states violating the second amendment

3. He wants to institute a national sales tax

4. He's for negotiating with terrorists

5. He know little to nothing about foreign policy.

6. He is embroiled in a scandal.

 

If you're willing to overlook point 6, then I think you should switch your allegience to Newt Gingrich because he doesn't have the problems 1-5.

337

If my legs were apart that's a different story.

Posted by: dagny at November 09, 2011 12:24 PM (nwxHD)

Ergo, I think you've now solved this case Inspector Dagny.

Like all of Cain's accusers, they seem to doth protest (to the EEOC) too much.

338 336 Not keeping my mouth shut while an idiot becomes the front runner.

This.  If Cain is such an awesome candidate, surely he can stand some criticism and analysis. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 09, 2011 12:25 PM (9hSKh)

you really think I can't destroy any fuckin' republican candidate you pick?

I control the media fuck-stick.

I own your neo-con asses

*scratches huge giant nutsack*

339

It amazes me, the hypocracy on both sides 

Come on, drink the kool-aid......it's so sweet and tasty.......
Both the D's and R's have us right where they want us.

It's time for a housecleaning, both parties..........

340

Lacey.. me too.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at November 09, 2011 12:11 PM (qjUnn)

Sweet, sweet job opportunity!

341 I still can't figure out how he grabbed her genitals.

She never said he did. She said he grabbed for them, not actually grabbed them.

342 @293 Funny, every one of your posts in this thread has made me think the same damn thing.

343 @ 327 No the issue is to try and "direct or claim faith" against or outside G-d's will. Even then it may not be a sin depending on why you are doing so or what it is being done for.

344
I will be happy to demonstrate exactly how Mr. Cain reached for my client's genitals.

/picks up baseball bat, Barbie Doll, and removes underwear

345

It only makes it harder when the illusion fails and the pedestal breaks and crumbles into dust.

You ain't kidding!  You should see my poll numbers!

346

@ 311 Did Romney put forth a plan for a national sales tax?

Is Herman Cain the spiritual grandfather of ObamaCare?

At least a national sales tax - if coupled with the reduction and then elimination of the income tax - I can live with.  In fact, I kind of like the idea of having everybody pay "their fair share" of taxes, instead of the 53% who do so now.

347 306 Noone is saying we can win elections by bitching about the media.  We are saying we don't need OUR SIDE to contribute.

You don't have to defend the guy, but you CAN stand by and keep your mouth shut.

Why are we not allowed to question our potential nominees? This is not a race for dogcatcher; it is a competition to chose a potential leader of the free world. We have a responsibility to examine their records and actions. Yes, there is such a thing as going overboard, but also remember that our leaders will not receive a free pass from our enemies. 

348

 >>also do not support character assasination without facts

 

fair enough.

I think there are two groups of people defending Cain right now.

1. People who are die hard supporters.

2. Conservatives who don't particularly like Cain but don't want to see a Republican taken down by the media especially when they questions the media's facts and the veracity of the accusors statements.

 

I can understand the second group. However, it's entirely possible, in my mind likely, that Cain did sexually harass women while head of the NRA. I do think the longer this goes on, the more evidence we will see in that vein.

349 Posted by: FederalismIsThePoint at November 09, 2011 12:25 PM (jZapj) You can go over the evidence and debate whether it's convincing or not. That's fine, and if Ace is strongly convinced by this evidence and tries to make a case for it, how is that wrong? There have been few comments trying to poke holes in the evidence Ace finds so convincing, yet at the same time others have accused Ace of being a crazy liberal for defending his stance. This is not how adults behave.

350

True comedy.  This is like the O'Donnell and Angle primary contests, but on steroids.  Honestly, the only way in which the conservative "base" could be dumber and more naive is if y'all sat around smoking Gardasil out of hookah pipes. 

Stay classy, conservatives.  We'll be sending y'all thank you notes, on November 7, 2012.  Heh.

351 206, Mike, my scenario: Accuser 1 50% accurate, Accuser 2 - influenced by 1 so 35% accurate, Bialek - less then 5% chance accurate.

352 Had an interesting conversation with my girlfriend last night. Her view: Women know, and never admit or discuss, that there are two RAMPANT things that happen in the workplace: (1) Women go out and use sex to advance themselves. They whore about with higher ups to advance themselves. Nurses with Doctors; paralegals with lawyers; etc., etc., etc. (2) Women also have a core believe in the time proven power of accusations of sexual misconduct which the accused cannot disprove and which almost always get settled with some cash changing hands. My g/f claims that the girls talk about this stuff all the time. I told her she has shitty friends, and that I don't buy that its that common. What says the group? Ladies? How frequently do you see women sleeping their way to the top? Using accusations of sex harassment as leverage?

353 That is a good point -- I haven't actually been seeing very many Cain defenders here lately. Some reflexive media-hate and liberal-hate, but not too many actual Cain defenders.

Maybe Ace gets a lot of nasty tweets and then takes it out on his commenters? I imagine tweets and comments can blur in the mind. The other day he was yelling at us for something Rush said.

We're like the children where the father gets insulted at work every day even though he's doing a good, if unappreciated, job -  then comes homes and yells at us.  We're just confused sometimes why daddy seems so angry. :-)

I keed, I keed.

354 What I've been getting out of all these posts is that some people see 5 accusers and think that they can't possibly all be discredited so they advocate for a wait and see posture.

Others are deeply offended that their candidate, Cain, could possibly, after 43 years of marriage, and a stellar business career, could even be accused of this kind of stuff.

I think we are still in the wait and see period and I'm offended that people can accuse and no one seems to be asking for real proof.  I wish there was a court case cause then people could be deposed and this could be settled in short order.

355 Mike the Moose, Oh, I see the distinction you're making. I guess I mean this sort of Faith -- with a capital F -- like "to even doubt this represents a sinfulness, and requires some moral correction on my part." Should that sort of capital-F Faith be directed towards anything but God/Christ? I do see intimations of this, like that guy above who thinks it's some kind of confession of weakness and frayed moral fiber to question oneself and think "I could be wrong about this." There seems to be this idea that a Real Conservative does not question his beliefs, ever, because that's some kind of Moral Relativism, but instead must always project perfect, unambiguous confidence of his certitude in all things.

356 "P.S. A word to the over-educated, under-informed 99%, "snuck" is not a word. Posted by: WalrusRex" A word to the pompous: "snuck" is indeed a word. It's the irregular past tense form of "sneak." When English had its great weakening of verbs moving from Old English to Middle, "sneaked" sneaked in. It eventually became the preferred choice ... by dictionary editors. "Snuck" is more Anglo-Saxon, more full-bodied, and -- since it is in fact used by 90% of the population -- a word. Perhaps you need to check out what a word actually is.

357

Oh, and another funny anecdotal tale.  I was driving home from Canada with 3 other ladies who were on my relay team.  Out of the blue, one of the women said "President Obama doesn't have a clue about the economy.  He is running us into the ground.  I didn't vote for him.  I held my nose and voted for McCain."  She only knew one of the other women in the car well, the other 2 of us not so much. 

I live in blue, blue Seattle.  For her to make a statement like that in a car with 2 people she doesn't know well was huge.  She took a huge risk saying that, but she is just so fed up, she can't be silent any longer.  She later even said she never talks about politics--not even with her parents.  Her dad is a retired Rear Admiral who voted for Obama.  She said "My parents voted for him, and they love him.  I don't know what's wrong with them or what happened to them!" 

The funny thing, all of us in the car agreed that Obama  and the Democrats suck.  So funny--I now know 3 more conservative runners--heh! 

358 Hang the fuck on. I seem to recall that ace never flat-out denied that he had access to a time machine. How do we know HE didn't go back in time and upgrade that chick's room. Shoulda let me borrow it, ace. Now you're going down.

359

Stay classy, conservatives.  We'll be sending y'all thank you notes, on November 7, 2012.  Heh.

Is that when you'll reveal who Obama's coke dealer was?

Sock.

360 Cain's Problems

#7. The fact  he's a complete & total bigot that said he wouldn't hire any Muslims in his cabinet.

I'm sure that got some cheers amongst some. Never mind the fact that it's completely illegal.

361 Guess who didn't put forth an idea for a national sales tax and isn't the spiritual godfather of Obamacare?

362
Perhaps you need to check out what a word actually is.

Perhaps he does. Perhaps he does.

363 How do you grab "for" a woman's genitals from the front if her legs are together? You're gonna get nothing but pubes and thigh. Every woman's mother explains the reasons for keeping one's knees together. The opposite is also true.

364 "Is he? Did Romney put forth a plan for a national sales tax?" Not yet as far as I know, but there's always tomorrow!

365

Still supporting Cain.

Looks like at some of the charges are falling apart even as they as revealed to the public. Gonna stay with him until the scandel falls apart/withers on the vine/is beaten back.

Then I might switch to another candidate. Maybe not. I dunno.

But I ain't voting for Perry or Romney. Well, not until the general election.

366 But when I [ace] see that True Believer impulse directed to things other than God -- then I start to blow gaskets. it's true.

367

@ 369 Guess who didn't put forth an idea for a national sales tax and isn't the spiritual godfather of Obamacare?

Let me guess - the one who doesn't give a flip about the rule of law and thinks it's fine to encourage illegal immigration by handing our preferential treatment by the state?

368

>>Stay classy, conservatives. We'll be sending y'all thank you notes, on November 7, 2012. Heh.

 

Do tell, how is this helping Obama or Axelrod. You don't think they want Cain to be the nominee? They are probably salivating over the possibility.

369

The funny thing, all of us in the car agreed that Obama  and the Democrats suck.  So funny--I now know 3 more conservative runners--heh! 

Thanks for reminding us all that people aren't so hopeless as it may seem, . 

370

I am waiting for the press conference too, but if the stay at home charge was legitimate, I really have no problem with the email thing.  It is pretty much standard operating procedure in law that once you have a complaint that is worth bringing forward, you bring a lot of small stuff that you wouldn't have brought but for the big thing.  It opens up more for discovery and gives you one more charge that the jury has to ultimately deny. 

 

371

What says the group? Ladies? How frequently do you see women sleeping their way to the top? Using accusations of sex harassment as leverage?

Does not happen where I work now (its a small company with a family-like atmosphere) but in my precious employement with a large consulting group, there was a really attractive young engineer who got promoted super quick, which surprised us all as she was not the brightest of engineers. Later, we found out she was having an affair with the (married) CEO, hence the promotion and raise. And that was just in my department, God knows what was going on in the other departments. So yeah, it happens, more frequently than folks think.

 

372 all these babes are getting paid, one way or another; that's why they are all popping up at once.

373 Perhaps you need to check out what a word actually is.

It depends upon what the meaning of "is" is.

374 One good thing has come of this -- MJBX has confirmed I can use the word "snuck" which always seemed to be righter than the supposedly right word.

375 110 >>>Perhaps an apology is due those who have been accused of blind Cain love when they ventured to simply say, "Hey, hold on a minute, let's make sure before we condemn Cain for these allegations."

The Cainiacs have been saying more than that. They have been pretty sure he's innocent, and kind of aggressive about that. <<<Ace

Yeah, that crazy presumption of innocence thing.  Nutty, huh?  I mean, quantitatively, he's just flat guilty.  And you have been extremely aggressive about that.

376

Lacey,

So its ok to completely destroy a persons reputation with NO EVIDENCE just because he is an idiot?

Are you SURE you are not a lib?

377 @ 360 Gonzo

My wife is an RN and she absolutely agrees, women in the workplace treat conversations about sexual harrassment as a tool very casually and often see it as accpetable in some cases, women tend to be way more vindictive than men.

Also as far a sleeping to advance this is not even debatable per her and her sister. Again it is a tool in a woman's "toolbox" and even from a young age women learn just how powerful that tool is. Some limit it to how they dress but many more do not. Honestly do you think women always dress nice for work because they like how those clothes feel?

Again his is supported strongly by my wife, her sister, my sister and mt Mother -in-law who is a CPA. We have had many conversations on this.

378

I can understand the second group. However, it's entirely possible, in my mind likely, that Cain did sexually harass women while head of the NRA. I do think the longer this goes on, the more evidence we will see in that vein.

 

Ben, I have a longer, more detailed post in #231, but I think this bears repeating:

 

The National Restaurant Association got off inexpensively if, as reported, it settled with 2 complaints against Mr. Cain for $35,000 and $45,000.  The cost is considerably higher when there is convincing evidence of harassment.  Bill Clinton's settlement with Paula Jones cost him $850,000."

 

I am not one that is convinced either way of Cain's guilt or innocence.  I do think that there is more behind the accusations that are currently being leveled against him, and I am waiting to see what that is before I make a judgment.  I do hate the hypocrisy of the MFM in the way they are handling this controversy vs the Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John Edwards scandals. 

379 Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 09, 2011 12:35 PM (+inic) --- No, I was talking about Rick Perry. I don't know who the fuck you're talking about.

380

@376.  Like 2008, you'll be able to tell who Obama and the Dems want as the repub nominee by which republican they attack the least during the primaries - same as McCain.

And which one the ACORN/Activists vote for in states with open primaries.

 

381 All I want for XMass is a decent candidate so that we can beat obama and save America. Is that to much for a nice Jewish Boy from NJ to ask for?

382
I saw my first Cain 2012 bumper sticker on Monday night in Somerville, MA.

Along with the Cain 2012 sticker there was a 1-20-2013 sticker and a NOBAMA sticker.

383

stolen from above:

Cain's Problems

1. He's pro-life except he's not

2. He's for states violating the second amendment

3. He wants to institute a national sales tax

4. He's for negotiating with terrorists

5. He know little to nothing about foreign policy.

6. He is embroiled in a scandal.

7. The fact  he's a complete & total bigot that said he wouldn't hire any Muslims in his cabinet.

New:

8. He said it's ok to ban the construction of a mosque by a municipality.

He lost me way back when he said this. It's much, much worse than #7, which was already bad.

384

@ 388 No, I was talking about Rick Perry. I don't know who the fuck you're talking about.

Hey, it's not my fault you don't pay attention to anything.

385

 Is that to much for a nice Jewish Boy from NJ to ask for?

Yes, since Christmas is not your holiday.  ;-)

386

Honestly do you think women always dress nice for work because they like how those clothes feel?

 

I think that a lot of women dress for other women.  That being said, I wear scrubs at work.  Not too many people look hawt in scrubs!

387
It depends upon what the meaning of "is" is.


oh you sneaky pompous devil!

388

Not too many people look hawt in scrubs!

Oh, I dunno about that.

I think nurses in scrubs are pretty hawt.

389 Is that to much for a nice Jewish Boy from NJ to ask for? Yes, since Christmas is not your holiday. ;-) Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:38 PM (sbV1u) I like to cover all my bases. Hey what happens if I get to heaven ( yeah I know not likely ) and the guy at the gate says " Jew? What's a Jews?"

390
'snuck' is bad English

it's like saying 'brang'

391 395

Honestly do you think women always dress nice for work because they like how those clothes feel?

 

I think that a lot of women dress for other women.  That being said, I wear scrubs at work.  Not too many people look hawt in scrubs!

Close, yes it is because of other women but that is so they can be noticed OVER other women, now who is it they want to get noticed by? See it does come back to sex and power

392

71, --- Late to the party, sorry.

I am still having a little trouble buying the "I don't remember her thing."  If a woman I never knew came up to me and accosted me a month ago, whispering in my ear for a number of minutes, I am darn well going to remember that "crazy lady who invaded my space." 

I get that it doesn't mean he's guilty.  None of the facts in themselves means he's guilty.  But a brick isn't a wall.  That's a brick to me.

393 My lady genitals are between my legs and can't be grabbed from the front if my legs are together. If my legs were apart that's a different story.

Please continue.

394 I think that a lot of women dress for other women.

All the girls walk by, dressed up for each other ...

_{linked mainly for whatsername in her undies}

395 Yes, FederalismIsThePoint, you got me!

I'm a shehag-refusing-t0-shave-my-pits-man hating-feminazi librul! You got me! I've just been playing conservative on this blog for all these years so that when some unknown unqualified man ran for office I'd be waiting, just waiting! in the wings so that I could smear him for no reason other than him having a dick!  POS man! Guuuuuuuurl power!

Patience is key. I'm really glad everything just fell into place like that!

396 Not too many people look hawt in scrubs! Oh, I dunno about that. I think nurses in scrubs are pretty hawt. Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:40 PM (sbV1u) Oh scrubs are hot, real hot. Trust me. Lots and Lots of hanky panky goes on in scrubs

397

I like to cover all my bases. Hey what happens if I get to heaven ( yeah I know not likely ) and the guy at the gate says " Jew? What's a Jews?"

I wouldnt worry about that.  Even Catholics acknowledge that you're The Chosen People.

Which is certainly better than being The Village People.

398

7. The fact  he's a complete & total bigot that said he wouldn't hire any Muslims in his cabinet.

Wait, did you want him to consider muslims in his cabinet?

399 My hero.

Scroll down and watch the video.

400

@347

"It's time for a housecleaning, both parties.........."

There is a theory that the only way to break the madness that we have experienced since Clinton left office is to let one side of the isle have complete control of the 3 branches of government with an formal agreement that the other side of the isle gets complete control of the 3 branchs afterwards.

It opposes the entire idea of our government, because our government is set up for stalemate at all times, that way only ideals that benefit the people and perserve the constitution get through....but the idea is an education experiment for the American people. I happend to agree with it!

Since the"Left" is not mature enough to actually compromise...the "Right" should just give them the enitre government...that way the American people can truly see what these people are all about. It most likely will lead to economic collapse and loss of freedom, but isn't it going there anyway, but much slower? Let's just get it over with!

401 "snuck is bad English." Well, Feek Me. .

402

Posted by: GergS at November 09, 2011 12:38 PM (2okAn)

#7 sounded good to me.

403 Those that are attacking Ace for supposedly attacking Cain: what are his motivations? Why would Ace just randomly attack Cain? Cause he's a Perry fan? Is he racist? Has Ace been a liberal this whole time and this is a site run by liberals to see first-hand just how nutty conservatives are? What is it?

404

Oh scrubs are hot, real hot. Trust me. Lots and Lots of hanky panky goes on in scrubs

Ah ha!  Just as I suspected!

Think it's too late for me to go to medical school?

405 What's the difference between a woman and a computer? A computer will accept a 3 1/2" floppy.

406 Anyone see Gene Simmons on Fox and Friends this morning?   That guy is very sharp and very outspoken.  I'd love to see him run for office.  And when the MFM started women rumors, he could easily retort, "I've slept with over 1,000 women,  Don't you wish you were me?"  LoL

407

He lost me way back when he said this. It's much, much worse than #7, which was already bad.

Posted by: GergS at November 09, 2011 12:38 PM (2okAn)

For me, #7 and #8 are his only redeeming qualities.

Id you don't like that. You go fuck yourself.

408
You wanna sound like a bumpkin?

Say snuck.

409

Please continue.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 09, 2011 12:41 PM (JYheX)

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear a light fapping sound?

410 Wait, did you want him to consider muslims in his cabinet?

Are you really going there??

411 NOOObody expects a Spanish Inquisition!

412 Oh scrubs are hot, real hot. Trust me. Lots and Lots of hanky panky goes on in scrubs Ah ha! Just as I suspected! Think it's too late for me to go to medical school? Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:43 PM (sbV1u) Well I don't know if you saw it, but there was this story a few months ago about an older guy going around masquarading as a Doc giving out free breast exams door to door

413

Not too many people look hawt in scrubs!

Oh, I dunno about that.

I think nurses in scrubs are pretty hawt.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:40 PM (sbV1u)


Oh scrubs are hot, real hot. Trust me. Lots and Lots of hanky panky goes on in scrubs

Well, they're efficient and practical for hank-panky, easy to remove, easy to put back on, you can't tell if someone is going commando, and they're supposed to get dirty/stained.

414 Using "drug" as the past tense for "drag" is like fingernails on chalkboard.

415 397

Not too many people look hawt in scrubs!

Oh, I dunno about that.

I think nurses in scrubs are pretty hawt.

 

+5

416 >>>. I do hate the hypocrisy of the MFM in the way they are handling this controversy vs the Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, John Edwards scandals. A lot of people hate that, and that hypocrisy is undeniable. But there is a fact on the ground here, whether we like it or not: A liberal can survive this kind of scandal more often that a conservative because the MSM will cover up for the liberal but will do flood-the-zone coverage on the conservative. I see a lot of conservatives saying, essentially, "We reject that! We will not let them do that to us!," but in fact we're impotent to change that rule. That IS the rule. It is an obnoxious, partisan, unfair rule, but it IS a rule, and we can't wish it away just because it's tremendously unfair. It is true that if Herman Cain were a Democrat you never would have heard any of this. But.... this is the world we live in. This is the terrain we have to fight over. The enemy has certain advantages in terrain. Ignoring those advantages, acting as if they don't exist, is not a sound strategy. I understand the unfairness argument, but I don't understand its relevance as far as a plan for going forward. When people point out that Ted Kennedy killed a woman, that Bill Clinton was plausibly alleged to have raped a woman, etc., yes, that's all true, but that's not actually relevant in terms of our decision-making. Their scandals are covered up and played down; ours are trumped up and featured on the front pages for weeks. It is what it is, unfair or not.

417 Are you really going there??

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 09, 2011 12:44 PM (AdRY3)

considering some posts already, I do believe so

418 325: From AP and Fox News: A third woman has come forward (anonymously) to the Associated Press to say that she too had been harassed by Cain – she alleges Cain invited her to the apartment the association kept in Washington and talked about her good looks with other employees -- but did not complain at the time she said because her duties brought her into Cain’s presence less often.

419 416 Barbarian

Ok you just hate the first amendment and the constitution. What a populist hero.

420 Since all of this is devolving into low, low comedy, I would pay some dollars to have Herman Cain start and end a press conference with "You should put some ice on that."

421

Well, they're efficient and practical for hank-panky, easy to remove, easy to put back on, you can't tell if someone is going commando

Thanks.  Just.   Thanks.   Nurses in going around commando in scrubs, yeah, that's the image I need floating in my head the rest of the day.

Like I'm going to get any work done now!

422 Barbarian, Ban warning. Sick of your constant attacking of people for not sharing your Stormfront extremism.

423 Fuck Islam, fuck allah and fuck muhammad.

Cain's antipathy toward Islam is one of his few redeeming features.

And I'm not Islamaphobic, I just want to see Islam destroyed and wiped from the face of the earth.

424 I think nurses in scrubs are pretty hawt.

Is it just me, or does anyone else hear a light fapping sound?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:44 PM (sbV1u)

Its just you.

425 LASue, Okay, well do not reduce that to a "comment about her looks."

426

A liberal can survive this kind of scandal more often that a conservative because the MSM will cover up for the liberal but will do flood-the-zone coverage on the conservative.

As I've said before, it's because everyone already expects liberals to be scumbags.  We're only surprised when they're not.

427

So I guess that's why FoxNews is acting like that interview never happened. ....And I am sure it is true that he "meets a lot of people", which is why Cain needs to be a little less assertive about saying "never seen them before".

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at November 09, 2011 11:44 AM (HhXzd)

If he says 'I don't recall meeting them before', he will be accused of trying to cover up.

Damned if you do(n't).

428

I thkink the whole "Rathergate" affair was the absolute lowest the MBM could go..using incontrovertably forged documents to try to unseat a sitting President.....but the sordid history f the MBM's malevolent influence goes back decades, if not centuries.

And I agree wholeheartdley that Cain (and any/all GOP candidates) should be well-prepared for this....yet it happens over and over again. Insanity.

 

429 What's the difference between a woman and a computer? A computer will accept a 3 1/2" floppy. You only have to flick a computer's button once to turn it on. A computer operates using logic.

430 @Titus: show me where Perry broke the law and said he wanted to encourage illegal immigration and I will give you $1,000.

431 Like I'm going to get any work done now! Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:47 PM (sbV1u) Then I guess you don't want to hear all them stories i have of my dalliances during my residency?

432 I'm done.  this is stupid. 

433 428 416 Barbarian

Ok you just hate the first amendment and the constitution. What a populist hero.

Posted by: GergS at November 09, 2011 12:46 PM (2okAn)

No. I hate a system of oppression that is known as Islam.

434 Oh. And Fuck You.

435 432 Fuck Islam, fuck allah and fuck muhammad.

Cain's antipathy toward Islam is one of his few redeeming features.

And I'm not Islamaphobic, I just want to see Islam destroyed and wiped from the face of the earth.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at November 09, 2011 12:48 PM (QcFbt)

Yeah, knee-jerk free speech squelching comments rule!

436

@409. A better solution would be to randomly draft our representatives in congress vice elections. It would destroy the party system, the ineherent fraud and corruption by long term representatives dependent on elections/parties/contributions for their 'careers'. It would encourage congress to monitor more closely the conduct of government agencies and eliminate the partisanship during scandals such as 'Fast and Furious'.

Additionally, it would give the President a congress to work with which would be neither automatically for or against him based on party allegiance.

 

And yeah, I trust a clerk from Wal-Mart more than politicians like Pelosi or Romney.

437

Then I guess you don't want to hear all them stories i have of my dalliances during my residency?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 09, 2011 12:49 PM (i6RpT)

No, I do not.

Well, let's not be rash.  Got any stories about ginger nurses?  If so, then I might just take the rest of the afternoon off.

438 431 Barbarian,

Ban warning. Sick of your constant attacking of people for not sharing your Stormfront extremism.

Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 12:47 PM (nj1bB)

If this is really ace. Do me a favor big boy.

439 One good thing has come of this -- MJBX has confirmed I can use the word "snuck" which always seemed to be righter than the supposedly right word.

Just be careful with "hanged" and "hung". Well, maybe not around here, but out in the real world.

440 Barbarian indeed.

441 So...what have we learned?

1.)  Cain doesn't deal with crisis well.

2.)  The current state of sexual harassment law is an unholy mess.

3.)  There's a lot of opportunists out there.

4.)  The media are not your friends.

5.)  #2 and #4 do not invalidate #1.

6.)  The official AoSHQ Style Guide should be updated in regards to 'snuck'.

Did I miss anything?

442 See ya, Barbie-boy.  _{/takes cover}

443 442 428 416 Barbarian

Ok you just hate the first amendment and the constitution. What a populist hero.

Posted by: GergS at November 09, 2011 12:46 PM (2okAn)

No. I hate a system of oppression that is known as Islam.

Posted by: Barbarian at November 09, 2011 12:50 PM (EL+OC)

443 Oh. And Fuck You.

Posted by: Barbarian at November 09, 2011 12:50 PM (EL+OC)

Ace can you ban this illiterate ass?

444 Two complaints in her 20+ career and she is now defined as a complainer. Tough crowd.

Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at November 09, 2011 11:44 AM 

Still at least 2 less than Herman Cain has complaints against him.

polynikes has a point.

I've never complained about sexual harassment but, working as a salesperson, I've complained at least twice where a company that I worked at were instructing us to mislead our customers (or even knowingly providing the sales force with false info without even telling us it was bogus). I have this crazy notion that sales is about helping the other person get what would benefit them on some level, earn a profit for myself and my company, all while being at least basically honest (e.g., not making up advertising circulation numbers and calling them "3rd-party, independently audited" when the audit firm months ago said they dispute our numbers and quietly dropped us as a client) so I complained about this and refused to drop the matter after being pressured to ... despite the fact doing so would predictably cost me my job, and that the misleading of customers would have tended to increase my personal income anyway.

So am I a complainer?

Yeah. I don't like lying to people when it's my job to give them understandably and upfront biased, but accurate, facts, reasons, and even emotional states in which to make a buying decision. And I was and am actually decent at selling products and services on their merits while being believable. My believability is not based on BS psychological games, but on the fact I'm telling them the truth as I see it, combined - definitely - with well-studied sales techniques and my personal efforts to understand the prospect's business, situation, and goals. And my effectiveness goes through the floor if I have to lie because I hate doing it, especially in a business situation. I don't do it well, and almost immediately in my career gave up trying to win sales by lying. I detest fraud and love selling and marketing. I see no conflict between these 2 positions.

But complain to a company that is asking me to sell by committing fraud instead of giving the value we claim? Damn right.

But how does this count against me in the honesty department?

Anyway, maybe she's a whiner, but then on the other hand; I'd say a lot of women are sexually harassed more than once in their career. So I'm open to hearing what she has to say about Cain.

Even IF her first complaint was relatively minor, she didn't say someone grabbed her pussy or something similarly extreme. If she does say that Cain did, considering the complaint against him by Bialek, that would be a problem, especially if there's any contemptuous evidence that she complained about something serious.

As far as how frequently sexual harassment can occur in a woman's life and whether it, on some level, can occur twice; wasn't it you, Ace, who said that your female friends will tell me some men will just boorishly go for it, grabbing at their crotches, etc., without leading up to it? I've heard the same from mine.

Not to mention the rapes, child abuse, and so on.

Most men and I hope that means all of us here do not sexually abuse women. But ... some men do, and they tend to do it repeatedly. So it isn't impossible at all that a woman could encounter two different experiences in her life that she felt a need to complain over, even if they varied in seriousness.

445 Well, let's not be rash. Got any stories about ginger nurses? If so, then I might just take the rest of the afternoon off. Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 09, 2011 12:51 PM (sbV1u) Shit your into red heads also? We really aughta have a beer one day

446 >>>Yeah, that crazy presumption of innocence thing. Nutty, huh? I mean, quantitatively, he's just flat guilty. And you have been extremely aggressive about that. Presumption of innocence applies in a court, Cochise. Here we're weighing who our best candidate would be. The "penalty" here is not prison, but a lack of support for the nomination for President of the United States. The question here is less if he did it or not and more if it is likely enough that he did it that he would be badly wounded in a general election on this issue alone. So yes, I want him to put this baby to bed, or else I have to oppose him. Some of you are into political suicide (see O'Donnell, Christine); I'm not. We have one last goddamned shot. I'm not playing fucking Christine O'Donnell games any longer.

447 Barbarian: go back to Kos. You've failed.

448 456 Barbarian: go back to Kos. You've failed.

Posted by: Joffen at November 09, 2011 12:54 PM (zLeKL)

FU

449

Shit your into red heads also? We really aughta have a beer one day

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 09, 2011 12:53 PM (i6RpT)

I'm always up for a beer.

When's the next DC moron meet-up?

450 456 Barbarian: go back to Kos. You've failed.

Posted by: Joffen at November 09, 2011 12:54 PM (zLeKL)

I'm afraid he's the real deal. Would be nice if he was faking.

451 Don't ban anyone....that is what Leftists Sissies do!

452 for some humor relief: It's one of those Status pictures that say the FB member is voting for Obama. This [image] is being made available to those of you who want it on your page. It in no way speaks on behalf of Keith.....Keith doesn't vote anyway for journalistic objectivity, purposes. By: Keith Olbermann Fan Page Herman Cain - Pastorin' is Hard Work. -

453 Maybe firedoglake then?

454

@ 440 show me where Perry broke the law and said he wanted to encourage illegal immigration and I will give you $1,000.

Reading comprehension is your friend.  I didn't say that he "broke the law," I said that he doesn't believe in the "rule of law," which would include the fact that we still have borders and laws against illegal immigration on the book (believe it or not, it's actually still illegal to enter the US illegally...even if the law's not enforced).  Perry helped to encourage this sort of lawbreaking by signing the Texas DREAM Act, which creates yet another incentive for illegal immigrants to move to Texas, and which makes it more likely that those already there will stay, rather than self-deporting.

455 Damn, I hate to write what I'm about to write but truth and a guilty conscience demands that I do. I wrote about "snuck" being from the original Old English and being weakened to "sneaked" in the Middle English period. I did that from memory which, I think now, must have been a bit faulty. Here is what a quick bit of research now seems to say concerning "snuck." It probably did not come from Old English (it could have but it's impossible to confirm). It more likely came later in a trend of "irregularizing" verbs that sometimes happens. The general trend in English has been to regularize, or weaken, verbs by simply adding -ed to them for the past. But there is a growing trend to do the opposite. "Thunk" for "thought," "brang" for "brought." It's kind of a hillbillization of English verbs. And most linguists, it appears, think this is how "snuck" came about. Perhaps the earliest recorded reference to it is in 1881 from a magazine in Ohio. That all said, I'm still partial to what I wrote. Anyone who has studied Old English knows this was the pattern of verb forms. We don't have written proof but that doesn't mean it wasn't so. At any rate, "snuck" is growing, not declining, in usage and is now accepted by most dictionary editors. Sorry for sounding so certain in the original post. I really, really thought that was the case. Now I'm only able to surmise it was so.

456 Show me how letting children of illegals qualify for in-state tuition is breaking federal immigration law, you god damn genius!

457

Confirmed: Joe Paterno leaked the Cain story to Politico. 

458 Should that sort of capital-F Faith be directed towards anything but God/Christ?

Well I get where you are coming from; and I wholeheartedly agree that such a level of faith in any worldly thing is unwise, and setting yourself up for a big disappointment or worse, betrayal or harm, for all things are flawed, the only question is to the degree.

As far as theology goes though, there is no strict thou-shalt-not about having faith in something else greater than faith in yourself, so long as your faith in God is greater than whatever this other faith is. It is presumed that with a faith in God, you will read the portions of the text that tell you this is very very *unwise* and you are setting yourself up for a fall.

I think 2Samuel 11 where King David sleeps with a soldiers wife, then calls the soldier, and sends him back to his unit carrying sealed orders to the commander to put the soldier on the front line then abandon him in combat, is a good example.

Are you really going to put more faith in a leader than what was due King David?

459 @ 455 Presumption of innocence applies in a court, Cochise.

Legally, it applies in court.  Morally, I would have thought it applied to the conduct of any reasonable person.

460 >>>Confirmed: Joe Paterno leaked the Cain story to Politico.

I've also heard very credible rumors that Jerry Sandusky is the father of Maggie Haberman and Ben Smith.

461 Cain is still handling it wrong.  He should just come out and say, "I. Did. Not. Have sex. With. That. Woman."  Under oath. Then everything will be fine and dandy.  He doesn't smoke cigars, does he?

462

@463

Yep.....Perry should not be a topic of conversation anymore. He won't get the Nod, He can't beat Obama, He is done!

It is upsetting because before the guy even got in the race, I was one of the only ones here not on the Perry Bandwagon Echo Chamber Unicorn Ride, explaining why the guy couldn't win.....I was right AGAIN! 

463 By the way, we need to give some love to Hadji the Muslim Comic at #249.  That guy is consistent gold.

464 325: And from a discussion on a little blog called AOS: "It doesn't offer anything more, except to say that Cain made unwelcome comments about her appearance. (And the private apartment invite thing.)" Cain: You don't look well. Anonymouse: Excuse me? Cain: You don't look well. You look ill, or wiped out. Why don't you come up to my apartment and you can have dinner with my wife and I? We'll make some chix noddle soup? ---------------------------------------------------- Would that hypothetical conversation meet the criteria for the accusation as recounted by AP? Posted by: NewEnglandDevil at November 02, 2011 04:20 PM (73P6 I thought the alleged apartment invite was attached to another accusation, but IMO, still pretty weak stuff....

465 Titus: legal and moral philosopher extraordinairre!

466
But some think it's well-advised to continue on with this.

Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 11:59 AM (nj1bB) 

ace, the commentors aren't posting the articles. 

Post more about Obama and less about Cain. There you go.

467

@ 465 Show me how letting children of illegals qualify for in-state tuition is breaking federal immigration law, you god damn genius!

You really are stupid, aren't you?

When you give preferential treatment to people who are already breaking the law - which is what in-state tuition is...after all, why should then get in-state tuition when they aren't even from the state? - you give them yet another reason to continue to break the law. 

468
So, what's a group of bitches called?

A Gang? A Bevy? A Pride? A Flock? A Murder? A Colony? A Covey? A Hive? A Swarm? A Gaggle?

We need to get this sorted out tout de suite!

469

Titus, guess the candidate:

"[Congress should] propose a reasonable program for the 12 million (and counting) illegal persons who broke our laws to get here, but not amnesty?”

 

470 One thing I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is the apparently real belief that True Conservatives and/or believing Christians are very, very unlikely to sin.

This does not track with my experience AT ALL.

Quite.

471

@ 474 Titus: legal and moral philosopher extraordinairre!

Glad you finally realized it!

BTW, it's spelled "extraordinaire."  ONE "r," not two.

472 Have you seen this video?  (don't open unless you have a sense of humor, don't open at work)

I'm sure herman cain is laughing.

473 >>>Legally, it applies in court.  Morally, I would have thought it applied to the conduct of any reasonable person.

No, actually not at all.  In fact, this is so generally accepted as the case that the legal presumption of innocence in the United States isn't a universal Western legal principle at all -- any nation whose roots come from Roman law (as opposed to Germanic) have the exact opposite: presumption of guilt unless the accused can prove (or at least reasonably create a belief in) innocence.

Besides, what people here keep talking about with Cain is the ridiculously high LEGAL standard: "we need to presume innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt!"  But that's a standard ONLY applied in the courts (and then only sometimes, as in criminal cases).  In everyday life, NOBODY applies that standard and a moment's thought would make you realize that: we judge people based on the much more lenient "preponderance of the evidence" basis: people use circumstantial evidence they have, taken together with their own subjective assessment of likelihood and plausibility, to come to conclusions on literally every single thing in the world. 

THAT is the standard that humanity is going to apply, and hence the one that's relevant for politics.  "Innocent until proven guilty" is for courts of law precisely because it's shorn of the "assessment of the masses" part that is the core of democratic politics. 

But we're talking about democratic politics here.

474 Presumption of innocence is not relevant to a presidential candidate. Would be nice if it was but real life does not accept that premise.

We have to evaluate on the public perception of innocence if we decide to move Cain forward as our candidate.

As much as I want a firebrand conservative (or in Cain's instance the perception of a firebrand) Cain fails on the perception part imo, just or not that is how it is. As such he is becoming a non viable candidate, yes that means the media might be winning this one if he was innocent but as a well adjusted person knows, life is not fair.

475 Yes Titus I'm stupid enough to know that in-state tuition isn't preferential treatment and that the states that have these same laws are not breaking any immigration law. You, genius that you are, accuse Perry of disregarding the law (what law) to give 'preferential treatment' to children of illegals.

476

Show me how letting children of illegals qualify for in-state tuition is breaking federal immigration law, you god damn genius!

465. Not the poster you were responding to, but I have a comment. It's like allowing the OWS protestors to violate numerous local laws and ignore it. By giving benefits to folks so they benefit from illegal activities and therefore you incentivise it; or by selectively enforcing laws you encourage folks to ignore them. You also destroy confidence in the goverment by the law-abiding.  I mean, I personally resent paying my taxes, obeying all the laws and regulations, and then see the government give a pass to a whole class of people. And you can see how as the government went hands off initially on things like permits, sanitation etc. with the OWS folks the situation has deteriorated.

477

258 >>>he woman was pointing out that it was a non-confrontational, amiable-looking encounter.....where Cain was leaning over to her so she could whisper in his ear [it was noisy there]....and Cain was smiling and responding to her. He then walked away and went on stage to speak.


That's not what she said at all. She said there was an intensity you could cut with a knife. She did not say Cain was "smiling." this is bullshit you're making up because you'd like it to be the case.

That was my take away from it, Ace......being a strong Perry supporter, I don't care enough about this to be "making up" anything that might help Cain.

It is Cain's positions on the issues that I don't like. Not this. I hate that this is happening, because it distracts from all the important stuff.

My whole point in bringing up the Megyn Kelly interview....is how they are now acting like it never happened. So I am pissed at the way so many fuckers at Fox News are covering for Cain, while ignoring anything good that comes from Rick Perry.

Nevertheless, I have been trying to be fair to Cain. Which is why I pointed out that he ran for President in 2000.....so in 1999, who knows, maybe he had been talking about getting ready to run, and that could have had some bearing on why these allegations happened back then.

478

Funny response Lacey.

But do you really think it is logical or responsible to immediately believe everything you hear and use that to go into crucifixtion mode just because you don't like a guy?  A guy that is nominally on our side?  A guy that a LOT of voters support?

Ace constantly talks about "emotional responses" from Cain voters.  Well, if you attack someone based on hearsay what kind of response do you expect?  Then, double down and start blasting those supporters who would like to see how it plays out with any nasty, condescending smear you can imagine.  Most people just aren't engineered to not respond emotionally in that case.

I think there is enough against Caino without making it personal to those who support him.  That said, I don't care.  I support Perry....another knot head with no chance.

479

Without knowing whether the accusations are true or false, I have to note the genius in the set-up. The whole stream is just so elegant, that it is almost beautiful. Hard to think it wasn't planned out. Remember the amateur nature of the initial runs by the Swiftboat Vets and Paula Jones. This is not amateur at all.

First, loaded words that cover a whole range of acts, from dumb to loathesome to criminal are used. So when the public hears the words, they can think the worst. The accusation is so vague that the target is unable to credibly respond. Its also like the LBJ tactic of accusing an opponent of an incest. Knowing it wasn't true, he just wanted to make the guy "deny it."

Then you use the anonymity ploy because then you don't have to give any details. You expect the target to point out the anonymous nature of the accusations. Then you respond by trotting out a real person, who now appears to support the still anonymous prior accusations. Then you add more accusers who complain of "inappropriate behavior," which again runs the gamut and is easily conflated with more egregious conduct.

It plays the black man - blonde white woman race card more for the effect on black women, the Obama base, than any other group.  See Clarence Thomas.

It creates chaos in the GOP. It takes attention from the SCoaMF. It makes the GOP base want to just give up. Takes out a candidate who polls well at this time. Gives MFM not only lead stories for days but gives them an embarassing gotcha question for the other GOP candidates. Seems to be working quite well.

Whoever the GOP candidate is, he or she must have their character and credibility destroyed before any debates. They would really rather than you not watch Obama defend his record, presuming of course that it comes up in these debates. We will need to drag whoever it is over the finish line. And we will need to buoy each other.

I refuse to surrender America just because the candidate opposing Obama doesn't "excite" me or because the GOP sucks. The GOP is the next on my list. But first, its Obama.

480 Link to funny or die Mike tyson video about herman cain.  (don't know why sometimes the links don't work)

(reminder don't open if you have no sense of humor or are at work)

481 @gray: in-state tuition to children of illegals breaks no immigration law, so your analogy is a poor one. Perry has made a ton of public statements that prove, without a doubt, that he is not pro-illegal immigrant.

482

If you're willing to overlook point 6, then I think you should switch your allegience to Newt Gingrich because he doesn't have the problems 1-5.

Posted by: Ben at November 09, 2011 12:27 PM (wuv1c)

Newt's big scandals are far behind him. Unless there is something new (or the media can generate something 'new')

483 468 - O.J. Simpson; Bill Clinton.  That is all.

484 488- Yes, that Democratic time machine that allowed them to travel back in time to convince the women to give contemporaneous corroboration of their allegations was well played. 

485 491- unfortunately that is not entirely true.  To the politically attuned, the scandals are behind him.  For the general public, this is going to be new. 

486

@ 484 Yes Titus I'm stupid enough to know that in-state tuition isn't preferential treatment and that the states that have these same laws are not breaking any immigration law.

You, genius that you are, accuse Perry of disregarding the law (what law) to give 'preferential treatment' to children of illegals. 

Uh, yeah, well it sort of is.  That's why states give in-state tuition to students from their own states, so that they can provide an incentive for students to stay in their state, rather than going to school in some other state.  They make this incentive by preferentially appealing to their own state's kids.  Almost like they're, you know, preferring that these kids go to school in their home state instead of somewhere else.  Hence, they want to preferentially treat them by making college relatively less expensive in their home state than in other states.

So, when this preferential treatment is extended to kids from, say, the state of Chihuahua or Jalisco, these kids are receiving the same preferential treatment that kids from Arlington or Amarillo get.

In other words, this policy encourages people who are here illegally (i.e. breaking the law by their very presence and lack of permission to be here) to continue to stay in the state so that their kids, who shouldn't even be here, can get a cheaper education - you know, a preferential incentive that has been extended. 

It's a sad commentary on the state of education in this country that this even needs to be explained, and that people such as yourself aren't smart enough to intuitively figure it out for yourselves.

487 The question is moot.  Rick Perry's hair will be the one being coiffed in the White House come January 2013.


HOLD  FAST

488

@ 484 Yes Titus I'm stupid enough

Well, you are right about that.

489 @490 I don't the the word "doubt" means what you think it means.

490 Titus: it's not preferential treatment if all kids in the State are eligible for it. Who's getting screwed here if the kids of illegals qualify for lower tuition rates? You kinda made a (bad) case against the in-state tuition program as a whole, but you didn't explain why other kids are getting screwed while illegal kids get a benefit. You claim that providing a benefit to lawbreakers is breaking the law. Really? Are you a lawyer? You think that all the States that have these laws are actually breaking Federal law?

491 Dave: so a man running for President is actually supportive of illegal immigration? Please explain.

492

419

By Erick Stakelbeck, CBN News

As an advisor to the Department of Homeland Security, Mohammed Elibiary was given access to sensitive government documents.
Now the Texas Muslim activist stands accused of leaking some of those documents to the media to spread charges of "Islamophobia."

Out of 26 members on the Department of Homeland Security's Advisory Council, only Elibiary was granted access to a nationwide database that includes terror watch lists and sensitive FBI reports.
It's unclear why Elibiary was given this special privilege -- but he now finds himself in hot water.

How'd that work out for Bam?

 

493

CNN has a contributor/reporter Maria ? (donÂ’t remember her last name) that was KarenÂ’s supervisor at INS. Maria said that while she worked there that an employee had some bad health problems so she let her work from home. Maria left the agency and whover took over denied KarenÂ’s request to work from home after her she was badly injured in a car wreck. I can see where she would file a grievance if another employee got “special” treatment for her health problems and Karen was denied the same privledge. In govt that is how things are done to go up the ranks to be reviewed by someone other than your immediate boss. (remember govt has rules and regs that have to be followed) Maria also said that Karen never mentioned Cain and the harassment but kept thanking her for hiring her away from the NRA and how wonderful it was to work with women bosses.  I can also see that a victim of sexual harassment would be sensitive to emails, comments etc that are sexually suggestive.  i.e. Soldiers with PTSD can be set off by a noise such as a car backfire why not someone that has been sexually harassed becoming "gun shy" of any sexual overtones in the work place.

 

I don't know whether Cain did anything or not but I know that his handling of this crisis has not been handled well at all.  I am judging him on this and find him wanting and I personally feel he is not ready to handle a crisis as POTUS.  Can you imagine for one minute his response to 9/11?  To any number of crisis that come before the president?  I just don't see it in him. 

494

@ 499 Titus: it's not preferential treatment if all kids in the State are eligible for it. Who's getting screwed here if the kids of illegals qualify for lower tuition rates? You kinda made a (bad) case against the in-state tuition program as a whole, but you didn't explain why other kids are getting screwed while illegal kids get a benefit.

Newsflash, Einstein: illegal immigrants aren't from Texas.  They are still legally from their country of origin.  You can't be a legal resident of Texas when you are there illegally from somewhere else. 

I made NO case against in-state tuition, because I don't disagree with that type of policy as a general principle.  I disagree with the particularity of applying it to people who aren't even American citizens, much less legal residents of the state of Texas. 

However, if kids from New Mexico have to pay higher rates for not being residents of Texas, legally speaking, then why should kids from Old Mexico pay the lower rates, when they aren't even in the country legally?  That's preferential treatment.

You claim that providing a benefit to lawbreakers is breaking the law. Really? Are you a lawyer? You think that all the States that have these laws are actually breaking Federal law?

No, I'm not a lawyer, but one shouldn't have to be to be able to use some basic logic to figure all this out. 

Let's draw an analogy.  If I facilitate someone in committing murder or arson, I an legally considered to be an accomplice, and am liable for criminal penalties as well.  Why does this suddenly change when it's a state enabling and/or encouraging illegal immigrants to stay in contravention to our immigration laws?

495

(c) Karen says it's wonderful to work with women bosses -

"Karen never mentioned Cain and the harassment but kept thanking her for hiring her away from the NRA and how wonderful it was to work with women bosses."

Karen is wrong.

Use an example to show that Karen is wrong.

 

 

Link via previewtinyurl to Funny Exam Answers  Scroll to #3.

496 So, what's a group of bitches called? A Gang? A Bevy? A Pride? A Flock? A Murder? A Colony? A Covey? A Hive? A Swarm? A Gaggle? We need to get this sorted out tout de suite! Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 09, 2011 01:03 PM (Qxdfp) A sorority. I kid.

497 Talk to me in the new thread Titus

498

@ 506 Talk to me in the new thread Titus

I can't, got some work type stuff to do.

499 1bunny, I think this is well put:

CNN has a contributor/reporter Maria ? (donÂ’t remember her last name) that was KarenÂ’s supervisor at INS. Maria said that while she worked there that an employee had some bad health problems so she let her work from home. Maria left the agency and whover took over denied KarenÂ’s request to work from home after her she was badly injured in a car wreck. I can see where she would file a grievance if another employee got “special” treatment for her health problems and Karen was denied the same privledge. In govt that is how things are done to go up the ranks to be reviewed by someone other than your immediate boss. (remember govt has rules and regs that have to be followed) Maria also said that Karen never mentioned Cain and the harassment but kept thanking her for hiring her away from the NRA and how wonderful it was to work with women bosses.  I can also see that a victim of sexual harassment would be sensitive to emails, comments etc that are sexually suggestive.  i.e. Soldiers with PTSD can be set off by a noise such as a car backfire why not someone that has been sexually harassed becoming "gun shy" of any sexual overtones in the work place.

500 We get retards like Herman Cain if we take your stupid advice.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 09, 2011 12:23 PM (AdRY3)<<<

And your special brand of stupid is going to give us Romney.  I wouldn't be real quick to brag, here.

501 I just looked up "nutting" at the Urban Dictionary, Ace.

Expect a call from my lawyers soon.

502 Magnitude 2.7 - GEORGIA, USA 2011 November 09 16:44:34 UTC Earthquake Details This event has been reviewed by a seismologist. Magnitude2.7 Date-TimeWednesday, November 09, 2011 at 16:44:34 UTCWednesday, November 09, 2011 at 11:44:34 AM at epicenter Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones Location34.773°N, 84.982°W Depth5.2 km (3.2 miles) RegionGEORGIA, USA Distances 1 km (1 miles) W (280°) from Dalton, GA 10 km (6 miles) SE (146°) from Tunnel Hill, GA 14 km (9 miles) S (186°) from Varnell, GA 40 km (25 miles) SE (139°) from Chattanooga, TN 125 km (77 miles) NNW (335°) from Atlanta, GA Location Uncertaintyhorizontal +/- 0.8 km (0.5 miles); depth +/- 2.2 km (1.4 miles) ParametersNST= 19, Nph= 28, Dmin=17 km, Rmss=0.1 sec, Gp= 61°,
M-type=duration magnitude (Md), Version=B SourceSoutheast U.S. Seismic Network Event IDse110911b

503 Now you did it, you got herman angry and look at the above result from the USGS.

504

Posted by: ace at November 09, 2011 11:41 AM (nj1bB)

Perhaps the Left's base is more proactive and willing to get their hands dirty. Win at any cost sort dedication thing.  A "Hey, wow! I could do something useful for Our Hero Barack Obama. And I've got documentation! Time stamped and ready to reveal!" kind of thing.

505

Whata shock that the dipshit troll that never listens Glenn Beck talked about him constantly on this thread.

506 I don't listen to him usually at all but I was in a car with satellite radio and I heard him.

507 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

508 Mitt Romney has sex with barnyard animals.

509 INSURMOUNTABLE.

510 Late to the dance here today, but, hey, that happens when you are GETTING A 3+ YEAR-OLD VINDICTIVE DUI PROSECUTION DISMISSED, YEAAAAAAHHHHH, BAAAABYYYY!!! A theory: Ms Bialek looks QUITE different w/those thick black glasses (from Monday's presser) than without them...Cd. Cain have been thrown off by that? Also, people often look different in person than on TV, glasses or no, and his "I didn't remember her" comment was from seeing the presser on TV.

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517 <tt>
National Defense outlays, 1998 – 2011           Nominal Real (FY 2005) % of GDP 1998 $268.1 $346.1 3.1 1999 $274.7 $347.6 3.0 2000 $294.3 $361.3 3.0 2001 $304.0 $363.1 3.0 2002 $348.4 $401.7 3.3 2003 $404.7 $444.6 3.7 2004 $455.0 $480.3 3.9 2005 $495.3 $495.3 4.0 2006 $521.8 $499.3 3.9 2007 $551.0 $509.2 4.0 2008 $616.0 $548.6 4.3 2009 $661.0 $580.2 4.6 2010 (est.) $719.1 $626.0 4.9 2011 (est.) $749.7 $644.0 4.9         Change in real spending, 1998 - 2011 86%         Source: The Budget for Fiscal Year 2011, Historical Tables, Table 6-1 — Composition of Outlays: 1940-2015, pp. 131-132
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