1 The adhan is the most beautiful sound on earth.

2 ...and I want to give a shout out to the LA Times for burying the video of that toast I made to Rashid Khalidi

3 Obama is a SCoaMF

4

and Pass This Bill.

5 The mooselimbs don't want peace. And they are coming.

6

>> "9/11 was not a call for understanding, nor an invitation to self-examination..."

...let alone self-immolation.

 

7 Misattributed to Trotsky, but a very good quote nonetheless: "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."

8

We have a community organizer instead of an actual qualified leader.

9 You know I'm sick of all this maudlin "Oh how did we offend ths jihadis" crap. Its demoralizing and fuckin un-American. Who the hell celebrates defeats? Why don't we celebrate our heroes? WHy don't we celebrate victory? I used to work down by the trade center, and I believe the best memorial for the victims is vengeance and victory. We need some War Pron and and ass-kicking vids up ASAP. Especially the one with the Jihadi whose own mortar sends him straight to Allah

10 War ha? Well I just spent 4 days in Washington DC and all we talked about was how our Defense Budget is being decimated, How we are going to have to throw People out of the Navy ( and that means Marines also ), and how if you were looking to get promoted in the near future, well forget about it. But have a nice day?

11 Thank you ace and cob-loggers, for keeping the threads troll-free today. 

12 Today the Saturday people, tomorrow the Sunday people. Let's make every day a weekend.

13

The thing that gets me is that liberals now seem to believe that by "never forget" we meant "Never forget what you did to deserve this Tragic Event^tm".

14 Children, not adults, tend to simply bleat about the things they "want." Yes, like EricW on the last thread wishing for the death of billions of innocent people.

15 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace. Ten years ago was a different time. Today, it is a beautiful sunny day, and it is time for the kids to play with bubbles and pet the dog. Not because we forget, but, picking up Ecclesiastes in The Message translation: But in the end, does it really make a difference what anyone does? I've had a good look at what God has given us to do—busywork, mostly. True, God made everything beautiful in itself and in its time—but he's left us in the dark, so we can never know what God is up to, whether he's coming or going. I've decided that there's nothing better to do than go ahead and have a good time and get the most we can out of life. That's it—eat, drink, and make the most of your job. It's God's gift.

16 In our Conference in DC we had a Navy Chaplin talk to us for some time on Saturday about how Navy Medical members ( Docs, Nurses, Corpsman) are dealing with their own Post Deployment Syndrome. He came back today to lead a Service in Memory of 9/11 and all the Military Members lost since 9/11. Very nice. He mentioned, quoted, and showed about 5 clips of President Bush. Never even mentioned what's his name. I like this Chaplin alot

17 I want to navel gaze... and blame the maudit peasants in my lint.

18

The thing that gets me is that liberals now seem to believe that by "never forget" we meant "Never forget what you did to deserve this Tragic Event^tm".

I made this comment at the Hostages earlier:

I’m tired being told by the media that I need to “Remember 9/11!” “Tonight at 8PM Eastern, 7PM Central.” Front page stories every single day this week in our local paper. Can’t listen to the radio or watch anything on TV without being told to “remember 9/11.”

I don’t need to be reminded to remember 9/11. I never forget 9/11. I am reminded of it every single day when I read the fucking anti-American bullshit that the left spews from their mindless heads non-stop. I am reminded every time another adherent of the Religion of Peace takes out a couple dozen people in a terrorist attack, then am told yet again by my “betters” to not jump to conclusions regarding the “unknowable” underlying reason. I am reminded of it every single time our so-called “leaders” tell us that the REAL threat is average Americans like me, who love this country and want to see it saved from the destructive policies said “leaders” continue to enact through whatever means possible, legal or illegal.

I am reminded of 9/11 every time some whiny, anti-American, leftard douchebag, who spent the entire Bush administration crying “OUTRAGE!” at every single policy that was enacted when we finally joined the fight against those who declared war on us decades ago, now tries to tell me that I am now un-American because I dare to dissent with the policies of their Boy King.

Fuck all those on the left for making this fight more difficult that it needs to be.

And fuck them double for having the audacity to spend the day reminding me to remember.

Fuck you, you duplicitous douchebags. I will never forget 9/11. Nor will I ever forget your words and actions since that day.

19 After the Japs attacked Pearl, what did they think was going to happen? That we would sue for peace?? The same with 9/11 -- what did the goatfuckers think was going to happen? I wd have supported using nuclear weapons against them and just ending it once and for all. Did they really think there would be no blowback?

20 Fuck you, you duplicitous douchebags. I will never forget 9/11. Nor will I ever forget your words and actions since that day. Posted by: wiserbud at September 11, 2011 06:32 PM (3Okgs) I feel exactly the same way

21 oops.  first part of above comment is a quote of Lauren's comment at 6:28.

22 Amen, wiserbud!

23 Funny thing is, in many Middle East and South Asian languages Pakistan is pronounced just like we pronounce it -- Packing Stan --and not Pahkistahn.  Can't vouch for Pashto or Urdu, but it's pronounced Packistan in Arabic and Farsi.  So not only is Obama being douchestatically arrogant, he may also be wrong, which I would argue is borderline beclowning.  

24 Well maybe the USS Cole was a declaration of war, or- the bombing of the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania or- the Khobar Towers- or- The Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut in 1983...

25 Fuck you, you duplicitous douchebags. I will never forget 9/11. Nor will I ever forget your words and actions since that day.

Yeah, too bad we can bring them to account too. I blame the douche-nozzels who never tried Hanoi Jane for treason for setting that regrettable precedent.

26 Yes, like EricW on the last thread wishing for the death of billions of innocent people.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 06:30 PM (xXvOQ)

What's your point, troll?

Anything constructive to say, or are you just trying to stir things up?

27 I want a strategy for the defeat of islam as a viable world view. Not just containment, althought that would be part of the means as we did with communism, but a roll-back and a moral defeat. 1) No American presence or aid without declaration of that intent 2) Any land we are forced to fight in, is no longer a muslim land 3) any nation with a muslim majority or constitution shall be recognized as potentially hostile 4) active support of anti-muslim forces 5) Revised Monroe doctrine to exclude moslim influence in the western hemisphere 5) direct aid (guns) and protection (but not immigration) to groups and subjected peoples who request  it 6) funding of anti-jihad to be from assets formerly in control of muslim nations 6) open support for any religious sect or persuation whose goal is to convert moslims

28 Here's my recollection for that day, and as always my prayers go out to the thousands of victims.

My memory of 9/11 started as a 19 year old who had just been kicked out of university the prior spring for spending my freshman year living the AoSHQ lifestyle. I was enrolled in a local college, think it was the third week, first class wasn't until 10:30 or something so I was sleeping in.

My mom didn't have work that day so she was just doing housework and had been watching the morning news which of course was covering the first tower having been hit. A few minutes after 9, I had the strangest wakening of my life. My mom busted into my room screaming, "Wake up! We're under attack!" To which I just responded with a dumbfounded, "huh?"

She dragged me in front of the tv as she hysterically told me she was watching when a second plane flew into the other building. It didn't take long to understand what had happened. She wanted to know what we should do, so I just suggested we should go down to the yacht club where we could see the Manhattan skyline across Long Island Sound, 17 miles or so away.

So we hopped into the car, and 3 or 4 minutes later were looking out over the sound. The Twin Towers being the only huge skyscrapers in downtown make them easy to pick out on a normal day, but the plumes of black smoke against the clear blue sky were the most obvious indicator. Within a few minutes, a local cop car pulled up and two officers got out. We asked if they knew what was going on, but they were there for the same reason me and my mom were, just to watch.

The first eerie thing I noticed was the quiet. There's always a ton of air traffic, from where we were, it's usually hard to look around and not be able to count a dozen planes in the sky, but there was nothing, and the lack of the regular background noise was very apparent and unsettling. We did see a few fighter jets soar by, adding to the unease.

The cops had left their car on, and the radio was broadcasting one of the NYC news stations. What they were saying just faded into the background, until one of the newscasters started yelling, "The building's falling!" Staring at the skyline, sure enough, one of the towers appeared to almost split, then disappear from view. We all stood in stunned silence. I remember thinking about Obi Wan when he sensed a great disturbance in the force, I knew I just watched thousands perish, maybe even people I know.

Over the next few minutes, lower Manhattan was slowly engulfed in an expanding dome of dark dust. It's still an image I've never seen again in the ten years since. I've seen many pictures and videos from a much closer perspective, but never anything from my perspective, it was really like something out of a sci-fi movie. One of the cops had a camcorder with him and I'm sometimes tempted to ask the PD if I can get a hold of it, just to confirm I actually saw what I remember.

We heard when the radio said the second tower had fell, but didn't see it through the dome, the only change was the dome would grow blacker.

We continued to stand there for some time in silence, how long, I really don't know. Eventually we left, meet up with other friends, try to get a grasp of the situation, and find everyone immediately close to us. I was lucky, nobody close to me died, but 13 men and women from our little town did not return home that night or ever again. Everyone knows someone who lost a husband or a wife, a brother or a sister, a mother or a father.

It seems to me that more and more, those who wouldn't end up directly affected by the massacre that day, have become ever more complacent in their vigilance to stop these murderous fucks. But what can I say, I live in NY, solid scoamf territory, the people here are idiots. I do what I can though, to remind myself and those around me of what happened that day, and that the job we must continue to do.

29 My utter contempt for that festering pustule in the WH would have been somewhat alleviated if he had used today to announce a strengthening of our military budget.  Imagine if all the money he kicked to Fannie, Freddie, GM, Chrysler, illegals, welfare slackers, etc., had been repurposed into smiting our declared enemies.  I know, it's crazy talk.

30 Remember 9/11, America. But not you, clergy, NYPD, NYFD, and first responders. You should go home and veg out on your couch.

31 Gah. Stupid phone will not let go of a sock.

32 Posted by: meleager at September 11, 2011 06:37 PM (GIeBA)

Cut.  Jib.  Newsletter.  Where have you been all my life and please don't ever leave.

33 I have been thinking about this all day, and have spoken at length with my wife about whether we have lost sight of the real point of remembering 9/11.

We seem to be wallowing in pain and sadness, and need to inject a bit more anger and resolve into our remembrance.

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but 12 people in my little town were killed on 9/11, and their families aren't wallowing in self-pity. They are remembering, but getting on with their lives.

A quiet resolve to fight this fight until the end is what we should take from today.

34 Terrorists given that they think jihad gets them a golden ticket to AllahLand have a different way of thinking when it comes to referencing time. "Victory" doesn't need to happen in their lifetime, and they have no elected government that will be held accountable for- failure. In fact they probably have a different set of parameters for the meaning of that term-failure.

35

36 1) No American presence or aid without declaration of that intent 2) Any land we are forced to fight in, is no longer a muslim land 3) any nation with a muslim majority or constitution shall be recognized as potentially hostile 4) active support of anti-muslim forces 5) Revised Monroe doctrine to exclude moslim influence in the western hemisphere 5) direct aid (guns) and protection (but not immigration) to groups and subjected peoples who request  it 6) funding of anti-jihad to be from assets formerly in control of muslim nations 6) open support for any religious sect or persuation whose goal is to convert moslims

but... but.... but.....

the children!!  What about the children??!?!?

37 We need some War Pron and and ass-kicking vids up ASAP

How's this one?

38

Does Islam *want* peace more than it *wants* Sharia to be the law of every nation on Earth? That I think is the only relevant question.

If Islam can understand religious and social freedom, then I think peace can be had. But if it insists at some level that the goal is a world ruled by Sharia, then a tacit approval will always be extended to the more radical factions of their religion, a telling "however" and "but" capping the end of *every* denunciation of violence giving quiet licence to more heinous acts. In that case, this war will continue until one side is wiped out.

We already accept Islam in Western Culture. Our freedom allows the religion to be praticed freely so long as it remains non-violent.

It is not we he need to learn to accept Islam, as we already have, welcomed them with open arms into our free nation. It is for Islam to learn to understand, accept, and respect us.

Then we can have that peace we both supposedly want.

39 31 Gah. Stupid phone will not let go of a sock.

Posted by: lauren at September 11, 2011 06:40 PM (bjWBh)

heh heh heh. I was wondering about that.....

40 Great to see the reference in the sidebar by Blackfive to Rick Rescorla, truly a 9/11 hero. More than that, he is a great model for a heroic life. He should be as well known as the Flight 93 heroes. Read "Heart of a Soldier" by James B. Stewart and "We Were Soldiers Once and Young" by Hal Moore.

41 <b>Act of war</b> were the exact words out of my mouth when the second plane hit.

Like I tell people all the time, <i>how does it feel to want?</i>
Poor baby.

Talk to me when it gets down to basic human need, like food or shelter.

Otherwise, FOAD.

42 My argument is that War makes rattling good history; but Peace is poor reading. So I back Obama for the reason that he will give pleasure to posterity.

43 that festering pustule in the WH

Ooooh, Peaches, I love this.

A Festering Pustule of Miserable Failure. Brilliant!

Reminds me that there was an epic insult thrown at a troll on a thread yesterday or the day before that I neglected to copy, much to my regret. Something about a sponge, among many other things.

44 Yes. This. I want, finally, for what happened 10 years ago to be correctly described -- not as a "tragedy" but as an atrocity and act of war, carried out by Muslims, in the name of the devil-cult that they call Islam.

45 What's your point, troll? Anything constructive to say, or are you just trying to stir things up? Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 11, 2011 06:37 PM (LH6ir) Sure, I have something constructive to say. Wishing the death of a billion or so innocent people based on religion is fucking insane. Do you subscribe to this form of "conservatism"? I certainly don't. I'm all for bombing the fuck out of terrorists but it's an insult to our professional fighting forces to say something like that when we fight and die to protect innocent life. It's also something that smacks of progressivism. Go back and read his murderous wishes in the previous thread. I mean, murder children because they were born Muslim? Sick shit dude.

46 whoops - I furget thers a html thingamajig up ther.

47 I was talking with my youngest a couple of days ago about this whole sorry mess, and he asked me what we should have done. I told him that we should have chosen a bare spot of earth somewhere in Afghanistan and dropped a nuke. Then we should tell the world .. no declare outfucking loud.. that the next time we drop one closer,,, and closer,,, and closer ... to a capital , every time some shitstain pulled one of these atrocities and we find anyone complicit. If that doesn't get their "leaders" attention nothing will. We have weapons. We should use them more often.

48 Great to see the reference in the sidebar by Blackfive to Rick Rescorla, truly a 9/11 hero. More than that, he is a great model for a heroic life. He should be as well known as the Flight 93 heroes. Read "Heart of a Soldier" by James B. Stewart and "We Were Soldiers Once and Young" by Hal Moore. Posted by: DieTrying at September 11, 2011 06:45 PM (+6REq) Yes and lets also forget John O'Neill: John Patrick O'Neill (February 6, 1952 – September 11, 2001) was a top American anti-terrorism expert, who worked as a special agent and eventually a Special Agent in Charge in the Federal Bureau of Investigation until late 2001. In 1995, O'Neill began to intensely study the roots of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing after he assisted in the capture of Ramzi Yousef, who was the leader of that plot. He subsequently learned of al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, and investigated the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia and the 2000 USS Cole bombing in Yemen. Partly due to personal friction he had within the FBI and federal government, O'Neill left to become the head of security at the World Trade Center, where he died at age 49 in the September 11, 2001 attacks. In 2002, O'Neill was the subject of a Frontline documentary named "The Man Who Knew.", and cast as the main protaganist in the television miniseries The Path to 9/11.

49 Or this?

50

I love my daughter, and her honors history teacher.  They spent the first week of school talking about 9/11, and she has intently watched a lot of the TV shows about it this weekend.  She was only 4 years old in 2001 and doesn't remember the day, so I was very interested in her thought about it 10 years later.  She turned to me this morning after President Bush spoke in New York and said, "Mom, I know we have had two wars and lost a lot of soldiers, but it was all worth it to get the people who did this to us and make sure nobody tries anything like this again."

51 Gird your loins, morons, "it" is back, over on the Parker thread.  Wouldn't it be fab it we could finally smite it for good on this of all days?

52 I think I'll start an Ace of Spades Peace Quilt. You can all help. If we hand them a quilt, they'll see we mean business when we talk about peace.

53 51 Gird your loins, morons, "it" is back, over on the Parker thread.  Wouldn't it be fab it we could finally smite it for good on this of all days?

Posted by: Peaches at September 11, 2011 06:51 PM (/ybwc)

Gah.  Are you sh*tting me?  Srysly?  "It" couldn't give us ONE DAY OFF from her insane rantings?  Yeah, it's a NYC thing.  Tell that to the families in my town who lost loved ones in the towers that day.  Crikey.  Jeebus.  Need alcohol to calm down.

54

9/11 was not a call for understanding, nor an invitation to self-examination.

It was a premeditated slaughter, a massacre


haha i needed that clue bat today. thanks .

55 I like what Rudy Giuliani said. It went something like: "9/11 isn't our history, it is our new reality." He went on to say how Muslim extremists stll want to annihilate us just like they wanted to ten years ago. Spot on! So to all those namby pamby "day of reflection/day of volunteering in soup kitchens" Libtards, I channel my inner Ice Man Kazanski: "You're dangerous. I don't like you, you're going to ge me killed! "

56 Reposting from earlier:
^{_{Egyptian protesters raid Israeli embassy as ambassador and family flee the country}}

57 Reposting from earlier: Egyptian protesters raid Israeli embassy as ambassador and family flee the country Posted by: blue star at September 11, 2011 06:56 PM (11cwq) Another obama foreign policy success?

58 Reposting from earlier:
^{_{Egyptian protesters raid Israeli embassy as ambassador and family flee the country}}

This is why I proposed that we immediately offer to trade Krugman to Egypt for a crapweasel to be named later.  It's a win/win.  They will treat him as he deserves to be treated. 

59 Another obama foreign policy success?

Moderate Islam strikes again.

60 Or this?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 11, 2011 06:50 PM (LH6ir)

I love how the one voice always goes 'BOOM!' after they hit something. Lol

61 They are waiting...a day when we're not looking. If we have to go down, then let's go down defending Israel.

62 I was thinking like this

63 Someone post some good war porn thread.  It's what makes me feel better on this anniversary.

64 Paul Krugman's New Book.

65 63 Someone post some good war porn thread.  It's what makes me feel better on this anniversary.

Posted by: Dang at September 11, 2011 07:01 PM (TXKVh)

This.

66 ugh.......

67 Nice. Way to divide us today, dickhead.

68 Ask Osama bin Laden how he feels about Obama's determination to protect us.

69 i can't drink until i get back from the 5 o'clock

70 Paul Krugman's New Book.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 11, 2011 07:02 PM (nRTou)

LOL!  You are good!

71 "True Peace"

Not surprising that some of the images likely have been pulled by Reuters judging by the captions.

"It was less than 10 children in East Jerusalem,"  - Arafat

72 Paul Krugman's New Book.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 11, 2011 07:02 PM (nRTou)

OMG, you came damn close to making beer squirt out my nose.  Kudos!

73

I want to thank you ace for this blog.  I have been coming here a long time, at least 3 years if not more (I don't know if there is any way you can check).  I can't remember what blog I was reading that linked here but I was hooked from day one.  You write very thought provoking posts, sometimes with searing humor and sometimes in anger or frustration, but you always nail it.  I can't imagine my day without this blog and the morons and moronettes who contribute to the conversation.  The comments range from laugh out loud funny to heartbreaking.  Many times I find myself saying, damn so and so said it way better than I ever could.

Hope the day was a peaceful day for all and also a day to reflect on what a great country this still is.  Never forget.  Never forgive.  Never give up.  God bless America.

 

74 Mugiwara @ 28 - Great post, thanks.

75 Yes, like EricW on the last thread wishing for the death of billions of innocent people.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 06:30 PM (xXvOQ)

You're an ass.

76 jewells45

{{hugs}}

77 And spell it with a K, please.

78 brb, doing the French Mistake w/ Reggie.

79 Three passengers taken off flight in Detroit for suspicious behavior.

80 Started my day with the best, most thought-provoking sermon I've heard in years.  Beautiful music, our Scouts doing the color guard, and tears and hugs.  We have a lot of NY transplants, some who lost friends that day.

Our sky here was brilliant blue and cloudless.

God bless everyone who lost loved ones that day, and the loved ones of those who continue to die, or come home maimed in body and/or mind.

81 gregory did you see on the blaze three people locked themselves in the bathrooms on a flight from la to ny.....shadowed by f16 plane landed with them still locked in the bathroom.....not suspected of being terrorism.......bizzaro

82 I want peace. Unlike leftists I know the quickest and surest path to peace is to destroy our enemy's war-making ability, occupy their lands and reeducate them. Works everytime its been applied.

83 48 Yes and lets also forget John O'Neill

Or this man:

FDNY Battalion Chief Orio Palmer

Battalion Chief Palmer was tasked with going to the South tower, where he led his men to the 78th floor (the impact zone). He was fighting the fires (up there) and organizing rescue operations when the building fell.

84 Back at ya Jane!

85 Sure, I have something constructive to say. Wishing the death of a billion or so innocent people based on religion is fucking insane. Do you subscribe to this form of "conservatism"? I certainly don't.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 06:47 PM (xXvOQ)

 

It may not be "conservatism" but it certainly is pragmatic realism. 

This comment is exemplary of the kind of simpering weakness that insures we'll never win, never have peace.  There is not one place on earth with a muslim majority, or large muz plurality, that is not turned into an utter shit hole by those fucking animals. Everywhere the Islam flourishes, civilization falls.  The only thing capable of keeping any Muz land remotely liveable is vast oil wealth.  And even then, sharia reigns (for those not rich enough to ignore it).  The muz, by their nature, bring nothing good.  The only apparent exceptions are not really muz at all - they simply self-identify out of habit or family obligation.  Those people are not believing Muslims any more than Obama is a believing Christian. 

People like Dick Weakjaw think we can just contain those people indefinitely - that we can kill a few of the worst of them and things will settle down.  That is not the nature of Islam.  They aren't going to be disuaded by deaths.  They WANT death. They want death more than thety want victory, because their path to heaven is thought death in the fight against the infidel.  Those too cowardly to fight must try to live in compliance with Sharia, and even then their prospect of getting to muz heaven is pretty damn iffy.  They are committed to Sharia, and to making it the binding law of the land. 

The only way to get rid of the plague of Islam is to destroy it utterly, both as a religion and as a collection of individuals.

86 53 51 Gird your loins, morons, "it" is back, over on the Parker thread.  Wouldn't it be fab it we could finally smite it for good on this of all days?

Posted by: Peaches at September 11, 2011 06:51 PM (/ybwc)

Gah.  Are you sh*tting me?  Srysly?  "It" couldn't give us ONE DAY OFF from her insane rantings?  Yeah, it's a NYC thing.  Tell that to the families in my town who lost loved ones in the towers that day.  Crikey.  Jeebus.  Need alcohol to calm down.

Posted by: Jane D'oh, Tea Party Terrorist and Barbarian at September 11, 2011 06:54 PM (UOM4

you know what, i'm beginning to believe that you are all the same person and very vicious at that.  I wish on you what you wish on me.  I came from one o the hardest hit towns on long island.  one of my mom's best friend's lost her son that day.   So f you both for the vicious lies you post on this blog about me and my posts.  Your behavior shows you do not remember or care which is very sad.

87

List of World Trade Center Victims

Gordon M. Aamoth, Jr. Edelmiro Abad Maria Rose Abad Andrew Anthony Abate Vincent Abate Laurence Christopher Abel William F. Abrahamson Richard Anthony Aceto Jesus Acevedo Rescand Heinrich Bernhard Ackermann Paul Acquaviva Donald LaRoy Adams Patrick Adams Shannon Lewis Adams Stephen George Adams Ignatius Udo Adanga Christy A. Addamo Terence E. Adderley, Jr. Sophia Buruwad Addo Lee Allan Adler Daniel Thomas Afflitto Emmanuel Akwasi Afuakwah Alok Agarwal Mukul Kumar Agarwala Joseph Agnello David Scott Agnes Brian G. Ahearn Jeremiah Joseph Ahern Joanne Marie Ahladiotis Shabbir Ahmed Terrance Andre Aiken Godwin Ajala Gertrude M. Alagero Andrew Alameno Margaret Ann Alario Gary M. Albero Jon Leslie Albert Peter Alderman Jacquelyn Delaine Aldridge David D. Alger Sarah Ali-Escarcega Ernest Alikakos Edward L. Allegretto Eric Allen Joseph Ryan Allen Richard Dennis Allen Richard Lanard Allen Christopher E. Allingham Janet M. Alonso Arturo Alva-Moreno Anthony Alvarado Antonio Javier Alvarez Victoria Alvarez-Brito Telmo E. Alvear Cesar Amoranto Alviar Tariq Amanullah Angelo Amaranto James M. Amato Joseph Amatuccio Christopher Charles Amoroso Kazuhiro Anai Calixto Anaya, Jr. Joseph Anchundia Kermit Charles Anderson Yvette Constance Anderson John Andreacchio Michael Rourke Andrews Jean Ann Andrucki Siew-Nya Ang Joseph Angelini, Jr. Joseph Angelini, Sr. Laura Angilletta Doreen J. Angrisani Lorraine Antigua Peter Paul Apollo Faustino Apostol, Jr. Frank Thomas Aquilino Patrick Michael Aranyos David Arce Michael George Arczynski Louis Arena Adam P. Arias Michael Armstrong Jack Charles Aron Joshua Aron Richard Avery Aronow Japhet Jesse Aryee Patrick Asante Carl Asaro Michael Asciak Michael Edward Asher Janice Marie Ashley Thomas J. Ashton Manuel O. Asitimbay Gregg Arthur Atlas Gerald T. Atwood James Audiffred Louis Frank Aversano, Jr. Ezra Aviles Sandy Ayala Arlene T. Babakitis Eustace P. Bacchus John J. Badagliacca Jane Ellen Baeszler Robert J. Baierwalter Andrew J. Bailey Brett T. Bailey Tatyana Bakalinskaya Michael S. Baksh Sharon M. Balkcom Michael Andrew Bane Katherine Bantis Gerard Baptiste Walter Baran Gerard A. Barbara Paul Vincent Barbaro James William Barbella Ivan Kyrillos F. Barbosa Victor Daniel Barbosa Colleen Ann Barkow David Michael Barkway Matthew Barnes Sheila Patricia Barnes Evan J. Baron Renee Barrett-Arjune Nathaly Barrios La Cruz Arthur Thaddeus Barry Diane G. Barry Maurice Vincent Barry Scott D. Bart Carlton W. Bartels Guy Barzvi Inna B. Basina Alysia Basmajian Kenneth William Basnicki Steven Bates Paul James Battaglia Walter David Bauer, Jr. Marlyn Capito Bautista Jasper Baxter Michele Beale Paul Frederick Beatini Jane S. Beatty Lawrence Ira Beck Manette Marie Beckles Carl John Bedigian Michael Earnest Beekman Maria A. Behr Yelena Belilovsky Nina Patrice Bell Debbie Bellows Stephen Elliot Belson Paul M. Benedetti Denise Lenore Benedetto Maria Bengochea Bryan Craig Bennett Eric L. Bennett Oliver Duncan Bennett Margaret L. Benson Dominick J. Berardi James Patrick Berger Steven Howard Berger John P. Bergin Alvin Bergsohn Daniel Bergstein Michael J. Berkeley Donna M. Bernaerts David W. Bernard William Bernstein David M. Berray David S. Berry Joseph J. Berry William Reed Bethke Timothy Betterly Edward Frank Beyea Paul Beyer Anil Tahilram Bharvaney Bella J. Bhukhan Shimmy D. Biegeleisen Peter Alexander Bielfeld William G. Biggart Brian Bilcher Carl Vincent Bini Gary Eugene Bird Joshua David Birnbaum George John Bishop Jeffrey Donald Bittner Albert Balewa Blackman, Jr. Christopher Joseph Blackwell Susan Leigh Blair Harry Blanding, Jr. Janice Lee Blaney Craig Michael Blass Rita Blau Richard Middleton Blood, Jr. Michael Andrew Boccardi John P. Bocchi Michael Leopoldo Bocchino Susan M. Bochino Bruce D. Boehm Mary Catherine Boffa Nicholas Andrew Bogdan Darren Christopher Bohan Lawrence Francis Boisseau Vincent M. Boland, Jr. Alan Bondarenko Andre Bonheur, Jr. Colin Arthur Bonnett Frank Bonomo Yvonne Lucia Bonomo Genieve Bonsignore, 3 Seaon Booker Sherry Ann Bordeaux Krystine Bordenabe Martin Boryczewski Richard Edward Bosco John H. Boulton Francisco Eligio Bourdier Thomas Harold Bowden, Jr. Kimberly S. Bowers Veronique Nicole Bowers Larry Bowman Shawn Edward Bowman, Jr. Kevin L. Bowser Gary R. Box Gennady Boyarsky Pamela Boyce Michael Boyle Alfred Braca Kevin Bracken David Brian Brady Alexander Braginsky Nicholas W. Brandemarti Michelle Renee Bratton Patrice Braut Lydia E. Bravo Ronald Michael Breitweiser Edward A. Brennan III Francis Henry Brennan Michael E. Brennan Peter Brennan Thomas M. Brennan Daniel J. Brethel Gary Lee Bright Jonathan Briley Mark A. Brisman Paul Gary Bristow Mark Francis Broderick Herman Charles Broghammer Keith A. 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Catarelli Christopher Sean Caton Robert John Caufield Mary Teresa Caulfield Judson Cavalier Michael Joseph Cawley Jason David Cayne Juan Armando Ceballos Jason Michael Cefalu Thomas Joseph Celic Ana Mercedes Centeno Joni Cesta Jeffrey Marc Chairnoff Swarna Chalasani William Chalcoff Eli Chalouh Charles Lawrence Chan Mandy Chang Mark Lawrence Charette Gregorio Manuel Chavez Delrose E. Cheatham Pedro Francisco Checo Douglas MacMillan Cherry Stephen Patrick Cherry Vernon Paul Cherry Nester Julio Chevalier Swede Chevalier Alexander H. Chiang Dorothy J. Chiarchiaro Luis Alfonso Chimbo Robert Chin Wing Wai Ching Nicholas Paul Chiofalo John Chipura Peter A. Chirchirillo Catherine Chirls Kyung Hee Cho Abul K. Chowdhury Mohammad Salahuddin Chowdhury Kirsten L. Christophe Pamela Chu Steven Chucknick Wai Chung Christopher Ciafardini Alex F. 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De Jesus Nereida De Jesus Emerita De La Pena Azucena Maria de la Torre David Paul De Rubbio Jemal Legesse De Santis Christian Louis De Simone Melanie Louise De Vere William Thomas Dean Robert J. DeAngelis, Jr. Thomas Patrick DeAngelis Tara E. Debek Anna Marjia DeBin James V. Deblase Paul DeCola Simon Marash Dedvukaj Jason Defazio David A. DeFeo Manuel Del Valle, Jr. Donald Arthur Delapenha Vito Joseph DeLeo Danielle Anne Delie Joseph A. Della Pietra Andrea DellaBella Palmina DelliGatti Colleen Ann Deloughery Francis Albert DeMartini Anthony Demas Martin N. DeMeo Francis Deming Carol K. Demitz Kevin Dennis Thomas F. Dennis Jean DePalma Jose Depena Robert John Deraney Michael DeRienzo Edward DeSimone III Andrew Desperito Cindy Ann Deuel Jerry DeVito Robert P. Devitt, Jr. Dennis Lawrence Devlin Gerard Dewan Sulemanali Kassamali Dhanani Patricia Florence Di Chiaro Debra Ann Di Martino Michael Louis Diagostino Matthew Diaz Nancy Diaz Rafael Arturo Diaz Michael A. 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Nelson David William Nelson James Nelson Michele Ann Nelson Peter Allen Nelson Oscar Francis Nesbitt Gerard Terence Nevins Christopher Newton-Carter Kapinga Ngalula Nancy Yuen Ngo Jody Nichilo Martin S. Niederer Alfonse Joseph Niedermeyer Frank John Niestadt, Jr. Gloria Nieves Juan Nieves, Jr. Troy Edward Nilsen Paul Nimbley John B. Niven Katherine Marie Noack Curtis Terrance Noel Daniel R. Nolan Robert Noonan Daniela R. Notaro Brian Christopher Novotny Soichi Numata Brian Felix Nunez Jose Nunez Jeffrey Roger Nussbaum Dennis OÂ’Berg James P. OÂ’Brien, Jr. Michael P. OÂ’Brien Scott J. OÂ’Brien Timothy Michael OÂ’Brien Daniel OÂ’Callaghan Dennis James OÂ’Connor, Jr. Diana J. OÂ’Connor Keith Kevin OÂ’Connor Richard J. OÂ’Connor Amy OÂ’Doherty Marni Pont OÂ’Doherty James Andrew OÂ’Grady Thomas OÂ’Hagan Patrick J. OÂ’Keefe William OÂ’Keefe Gerald OÂ’leary Matthew Timothy OÂ’Mahony Peter J. OÂ’Neill, Jr. Sean Gordon OÂ’Neill Kevin OÂ’Rourke Patrick J. 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Scharf Frederick Claude Scheffold, Jr. Angela Susan Scheinberg Scott Mitchell Schertzer Sean Schielke Steven Francis Schlag Jon Schlissel Karen Helene Schmidt Ian Schneider Thomas G. Schoales Frank G. Schott, Jr. Gerard Patrick Schrang Jeffrey H. Schreier John T. Schroeder Susan Lee Schuler Edward William Schunk Mark E. Schurmeier Clarin Shellie Schwartz John Burkhart Schwartz Mark Schwartz Adriane Victoria Scibetta Raphael Scorca Randolph Scott Sheila Scott Christopher Jay Scudder Arthur Warren Scullin Michael Herman Seaman Margaret M. Seeliger Anthony Segarra Carlos Segarra Jason Sekzer Matthew Carmen Sellitto Howard Selwyn Larry John Senko Arturo Angelo Sereno Frankie Serrano Alena Sesinova Adele Christine Sessa Sita Nermalla Sewnarine Karen Lynn Seymour Davis Sezna Thomas Joseph Sgroi Jayesh S. Shah Khalid M. Shahid Mohammed Shajahan Gary Shamay Earl Richard Shanahan Neil Shastri Kathryn Anne Shatzoff Barbara A. 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Taddei Michael Taddonio Keiichiro Takahashi Keiji Takahashi Phyllis Gail Talbot Robert Talhami Sean Patrick Tallon Paul Talty Maurita Tam Rachel Tamares Hector Tamayo Michael Andrew Tamuccio Kenichiro Tanaka Rhondelle Cheri Tankard Michael Anthony Tanner Dennis Gerard Taormina, Jr. Kenneth Joseph Tarantino Allan Tarasiewicz Ronald Tartaro Darryl Anthony Taylor Donnie Brooks Taylor Lorisa Ceylon Taylor Michael Morgan Taylor Paul A. Tegtmeier Yeshauant Tembe Anthony Tempesta Dorothy Pearl Temple Stanley Temple David Tengelin Brian John Terrenzi Lisa M. Terry Shell Tester Goumatie T. Thackurdeen Sumati Thakur Harshad Sham Thatte Thomas F. Theurkauf, Jr. Lesley Anne Thomas Brian Thomas Thompson Clive Thompson Glenn Thompson Nigel Bruce Thompson Perry A. Thompson Vanavah Alexei Thompson William H. Thompson Eric Raymond Thorpe Nichola Angela Thorpe Sal Edward Tieri, Jr. John p Tierney Mary Ellen Tiesi William R. Tieste Kenneth Francis Tietjen Stephen Edward Tighe Scott Charles Timmes Michael E. Tinley Jennifer M. Tino Robert Frank Tipaldi John James Tipping II David Tirado Hector Luis Tirado, Jr. Michelle Lee Titolo John J. Tobin Richard Todisco Vladimir Tomasevic Stephen Kevin Tompsett Thomas Tong Doris Torres Luis Eduardo Torres Amy Elizabeth Toyen Christopher Michael Traina Daniel Patrick Trant Abdoul Karim Traore Glenn J. Travers Walter Philip Travers Felicia Y. Traylor-Bass Lisa L. Trerotola Karamo Trerra Michael Angel Trinidad Francis Joseph Trombino Gregory James Trost William P. Tselepis Zhanetta Valentinovna Tsoy Michael Tucker Lance Richard Tumulty Ching Ping Tung Simon James Turner Donald Joseph Tuzio Robert T. Twomey Jennifer Tzemis John G. Ueltzhoeffer Tyler V. Ugolyn Michael A. Uliano Jonathan J. Uman Anil Shivhari Umarkar Allen V. Upton Diane Marie Urban John Damien Vaccacio Bradley Hodges Vadas Renuta Vaidea William Valcarcel Felix Antonio Vale Ivan Vale Benito Valentin Santos Valentin, Jr. Carlton Francis Valvo II Erica H. Van Acker Kenneth W. Van Auken Richard B. Van Hine Daniel M. Van Laere Edward Raymond Vanacore Jon C. Vandevander Barrett Vanvelzer, 4 Edward Vanvelzer Paul Herman Vanvelzer Frederick Thomas Varacchi Gopalakrishnan Varadhan David Vargas Scott C. Vasel Azael Ismael Vasquez Arcangel Vazquez Santos Vazquez Peter Anthony Vega Sankara S. Velamuri Jorge Velazquez Lawrence G. Veling Anthony Mark Ventura David Vera Loretta Ann Vero Christopher James Vialonga Matthew Gilbert Vianna Robert Anthony Vicario Celeste Torres Victoria Joanna Vidal John T. Vigiano II Joseph Vincent Vigiano Frank J. Vignola, Jr. Joseph Barry Vilardo Sergio Villanueva Chantal Vincelli Melissa Vincent Francine Ann Virgilio Lawrence Virgilio Joseph Gerard Visciano Joshua S. Vitale Maria Percoco Vola Lynette D. Vosges Garo H. Voskerijian Alfred Vukosa Gregory Kamal Bruno Wachtler Gabriela Waisman Courtney Wainsworth Walcott Victor Wald Benjamin James Walker Glen Wall Mitchel Scott Wallace Peter Guyder Wallace Robert Francis Wallace Roy Michael Wallace Jeanmarie Wallendorf Matthew Blake Wallens John Wallice, Jr. Barbara P. Walsh James Henry Walsh Jeffrey P. Walz Ching Wang Weibin Wang Michael Warchola Stephen Gordon Ward James Arthur Waring Brian G. Warner Derrick Washington Charles Waters James Thomas Waters, Jr. Patrick J. Waters Kenneth Thomas Watson Michael Henry Waye Todd Christopher Weaver Walter Edward Weaver Nathaniel Webb Dinah Webster Joanne Flora Weil Michael T. Weinberg Steven Weinberg Scott Jeffrey Weingard Steven George Weinstein Simon Weiser David M. Weiss David Thomas Weiss Vincent Michael Wells Timothy Matthew Welty Christian Hans Rudolf Wemmers Ssu-Hui Wen Oleh D. Wengerchuk Peter M. West Whitfield West, Jr. Meredith Lynn Whalen Eugene Whelan Adam S. White Edward James White III James Patrick White John Sylvester White Kenneth Wilburn White, Jr. Leonard Anthony White Malissa Y. White Wayne White Leanne Marie Whiteside Mark P. Whitford Michael T. Wholey Mary Catherine Wieman Jeffrey David Wiener Wilham J. Wik Alison Marie Wildman Glenn E. Wilkenson John C. Willett Brian Patrick Williams Crossley Richard Williams, Jr. David J. Williams Deborah Lynn Williams Kevin Michael Williams Louie Anthony Williams Louis Calvin Williams III John P. Williamson Donna Ann Wilson William Wilson David Harold Winton Glenn J. Winuk Thomas Francis Wise Alan L. Wisniewski Frank Thomas Wisniewski David Wiswall Sigrid Wiswe Michael Wittenstein Christopher W. Wodenshek Martin P. Wohlforth Katherine Susan Wolf Jennifer Yen Wong Siu Cheung Wong Yin Ping Wong Yuk Ping Wong Brent James Woodall James John Woods Patrick J. Woods Richard Herron Woodwell David Terence Wooley John Bentley Works Martin Michael Wortley Rodney James Wotton William Wren John Wayne Wright Neil Robin Wright Sandra Lee Wright Jupiter Yambem Suresh Yanamadala Matthew David Yarnell Myrna Yaskulka Shakila Yasmin Olabisi Shadie Layeni Yee William Yemele Edward P. York Kevin Patrick York Raymond R. York Suzanne Youmans Barrington Young Jacqueline Young Elkin Yuen Joseph C. Zaccoli Adel Agayby Zakhary Arkady Zaltsman Edwin J. Zambrana, Jr. Robert Alan Zampieri Mark Zangrilli Ira Zaslow Kenneth Albert Zelman Abraham J. Zelmanowitz Martin Morales Zempoaltecatl Zhe Zeng Marc Scott Zeplin Jie Yao Justin Zhao Ivelin Ziminski Michael Joseph Zinzi Charles A. Zion Julie Lynne Zipper Salvatore Zisa Prokopios Paul Zois Joseph J. Zuccala Andrew S. Zucker Igor Zukelman

List of Victims on American Airlines Flight 11

Anna Allison David Lawrence Angell Lynn Edwards Angell Seima Aoyama Barbara Jean Arestegui Myra Joy Aronson Christine Barbuto Carolyn Beug Kelly Ann Booms Carol Marie Bouchard Robin Lynne Kaplan Neilie Anne Heffernan Casey Jeffrey Dwayne Collman Jeffrey W. Coombs Tara Kathleen Creamer Thelma Cuccinello Patrick Currivan Brian Paul Dale David Dimeglio Donald Americo Ditullio Alberto Dominguez Paige Marie Farley-Hackel Alexander Milan Filipov Carol Ann Flyzik Paul J. Friedman Karleton D.B. Fyfe Peter Alan Gay Linda M. George Edmund Glazer Lisa Reinhart Gordenstein Andrew Peter Charles Curry Green Peter Paul Hashem Robert Jay Hayes Edward R. Hennessy, Jr. John A. Hofer Cora Hidalgo Holland John Nicholas Humber, Jr. Waleed Joseph Iskandar John Charles Jenkins Charles Edward Jones Barbara A. Keating David P. Kovalcin Judith Camilla Larocque Natalie Janis Lasden Daniel John Lee Daniel M. Lewin Sara Elizabeth Low Susan A. Mackay Karen Ann Martin Thomas F. McGuinness, Jr. Christopher D. Mello Jeffrey Peter Mladenik Carlos Alberto Montoya Antonio Jesus Montoya Valdes Laura Lee Morabito Mildred Naiman Laurie Ann Neira Renee Lucille Newell Kathleen Ann Nicosia Jacqueline June Norton Robert Grant Norton John Ogonowski Betty Ann Ong Jane M. Orth Thomas Nicholas Pecorelli Berinthia B. Perkins Sonia M. Puopolo David E. Retik Jean Destrehan Roger Philip Martin Rosenzweig Richard Barry Ross Jessica Leigh Sachs Rahma Salie Heather Lee Smith Dianne Bullis Snyder Douglas Joel Stone Xavier Suarez Madeline Amy Sweeney Michael Theodoridis James Anthony Trentini Mary Barbara Trentini Pendyala Vamsikrishna Mary Alice Wahlstrom Kenneth Waldie John Joseph Wenckus Candace Lee Williams Christopher Rudolph Zarba, Jr.

List of Victims on United Airlines Flight 175

Alona Abraham Garnet Edward Bailey Mark Lawrence Bavis Graham Andrew Berkeley Touri Bolourchi Klaus Bothe Daniel Raymond Brandhorst David Reed Gamboa Brandhorst John Brett Cahill Christoffer Mikael Carstanjen John J. Corcoran III Dorothy Alma de Araujo Ana Gloria Pocasangre Debarrera Robert John Fangman Lisa Anne Frost Ronald Gamboa Lynn Catherine Goodchild Peter M. Goodrich Douglas Alan Gowell Francis Edward Grogan Carl Max Hammond, Jr. Christine Lee Hanson Peter Burton Hanson Susan Kim Hanson Gerald Francis Hardacre Eric Hartono James Edward Hayden Herbert Wilson Homer Michael Robert Horrocks Robert Adrien Jalbert Amy N. Jarret Ralph Kershaw Heinrich Kimmig Amy R. King Brian Kinney Kathryn L. LaBorie Robert G. Leblanc Maclovio Lopez, Jr. Marianne Macfarlane Alfred Gilles Marchand Louis Mariani Juliana McCourt Ruth Magdaline McCourt Wolfgang Peter Menzel Shawn M. Nassaney Marie Pappalardo Patrick J. Quigley IV Frederick Charles Rimmele III James Roux Jesus Sanchez Victor J. Saracini Mary Kathleen Shearer Robert M. Shearer Jane Louise Simpkin Brian David Sweeney Michael C. Tarrou Alicia N. Titus Timothy Ray Ward William Michael Weems

List of Victims at the Pentagon (Not Including Flight 77)

SPC Craig S. Amundson, USA YN3 Melissa Rose Barnes, USN MSG Max J. Beilke, Retired IT2 Kris Romeo Bishundat, USN Carrie R. Blagburn COL Canfield D. Boone, ARNG Donna M. Bowen Allen P. Boyle ET3 Christopher L. Burford, USN ET3 Daniel M. Caballero, USN SFC Jose O. Calderon-Olmedo, USA Angelene C. Carter Sharon A. Carver SFC John J. Chada, USA, Retired Rosa Maria Chapa Julian T. Cooper LCDR Eric A. Cranford, USN Ada M. Davis CAPT Gerald F. DeConto, USN LTC Jerry D. Dickerson, USA IT1 Johnnie Doctor, Jr., USN CAPT Robert E. Dolan, Jr., USN CDR William H. Donovan, USN CDR Patrick Dunn, USN AG1 Edward T. Earhart, USN LCDR Robert R. Elseth, USNR SK3 Jamie L. Fallon, USN Amelia V. Fields Gerald P. Fisher AG2 Matthew M. Flocco, USN Sandra N. Foster CAPT Lawrence D. Getzfred, USN Cortez Ghee Brenda C. Gibson COL Ronald F. Golinski, USA, Retired Diane Hale-McKinzy Carolyn B. Halmon Sheila M.S. Hein ET1 Ronald J. Hemenway, USN MAJ Wallace Cole Hogan, Jr., USA SSG Jimmie I. Holley, USA, Retired Angela M. Houtz Brady Kay Howell Peggie M. Hurt LTC Stephen N. Hyland, Jr., USA Lt Col Robert J. Hymel, USAF, Retired SGM Lacey B. Ivory, USA LTC Dennis M. Johnson, USA Judith L. Jones Brenda Kegler LT Michael S. Lamana, USN David W. Laychak Samantha L. Lightbourn-Allen MAJ Stephen V. Long, USA James T. Lynch, Jr. Terence M. Lynch OS2 Nehamon Lyons IV, USN Shelley A. Marshall Teresa M. Martin Ada L. Mason-Acker LTC Dean E. Mattson, USA LTG Timothy J. Maude, USA Robert J. Maxwell Molly L. McKenzie Patricia E. Mickley MAJ Ronald D. Milam, USA Gerard P. Moran, Jr. Odessa V. Morris ET1 Brian A. Moss, USN Teddington H. Moy LCDR Patrick J. Murphy, USNR Khang Ngoc Nguyen DM2 Michael A. Noeth, USN Ruben S. Ornedo Diana B. Padro LT Jonas M. Panik, USNR MAJ Clifford L. Patterson, Jr., USA LT Darin H. Pontell, USNR Scott Powell CAPT Jack D. Punches, USN, Retired AW1 Joseph J. Pycior, Jr., USN Deborah A. Ramsaur Rhonda Sue Rasmussen IT1 Marsha D. Ratchford, USN Martha M. Reszke Cecelia E. (Lawson) Richard Edward V. Rowenhorst Judy Rowlett SGM Robert E. Russell, USA, Retired CW4 William R. Ruth, ARNG Charles E. Sabin, Sr. Marjorie C. Salamone COL David M. Scales, USA CDR Robert A. Schlegel, USN Janice M. Scott LTC Michael L. Selves, USA, Retired Marian H. Serva CDR Dan F. Shanower, USN Antionette M. Sherman Diane M. Simmons Cheryle D. Sincock ITC Gregg H. Smallwood, USN LTC Gary F. Smith, USA, Retired Patricia J. Statz Edna L. Stephens SGM Larry L. Strickland, USA LTC Kip P. Taylor, USA Sandra C. Taylor LTC Karl W. Teepe, USA, Retired SGT Tamara C. Thurman, USA LCDR Otis V. Tolbert, USN SSG Willie Q. Troy, USA, Retired LCDR Ronald J. Vauk, USNR LTC Karen J. Wagner, USA Meta L. (Fuller) Waller SPC Chin Sun Pak Wells, USA SSG Maudlyn A. White, USA Sandra L. White Ernest M. Willcher LCDR David L. Williams, USN MAJ Dwayne Williams, USA RMC Marvin Roger Woods, USN, Retired IT2 Kevin W. Yokum, USN ITC Donald M. Young, USN Edmond G. Young, Jr. Lisa L. Young

List of Victims on American Airlines Flight 77

Paul W. Ambrose Yeneneh Betru Mary Jane Booth Bernard C. Brown, II CAPT Charles F. Burlingame III, USNR, Retired Suzanne M. Calley William E. Caswell David M. Charlebois Sarah M. Clark Asia S. Cottom James D. Debeuneure Rodney Dickens Eddie A. Dillard LCDR Charles A. Droz III, USN, Retired Barbara G. Edwards Charles S. Falkenberg Dana Falkenberg Zoe Falkenberg J. Joseph Ferguson Darlene E. Flagg RADM Wilson F. Flagg, USNR, Retired 1stLt Richard P. Gabriel, USMC, Retired Ian J. Gray Stanley R. Hall Michele M. Heidenberger Bryan C. Jack Steven D. Jacoby Ann C. Judge Chandler R. Keller Yvonne E. Kennedy Norma Cruz Khan Karen Ann Kincaid Dong Chul Lee Jennifer Lewis Kenneth E. Lewis Renee A. May Dora Marie Menchaca Christopher C. Newton Barbara K. Olson Ruben S. Ornedo Robert Penninger Robert R. Ploger III Zandra F. Ploger Lisa J. Raines Todd H. Reuben John P. Sammartino George W. Simmons Donald D. Simmons Mari-Rae Sopper Robert Speisman Norma Lang Steuerle Hilda E. Taylor Leonard E. Taylor Sandra D. Teague Leslie A. Whittington CAPT John D. Yamnicky, Sr., USN, Retired Vicki Yancey Shuyin Yang Yuguag Zheng

List of Victims on United Airlines Flight 93

Christian Adams Lorraine G. Bay Todd Beamer Alan Beaven Mark K. Bingham Deora Frances Bodley Sandra W. Bradshaw Marion Britton Thomas E. Burnett Jr. William Cashman Georgine Rose Corrigan Patricia Cushing Jason Dahl Joseph Deluca Patrick Driscoll Edward Porter Felt Jane C. Folger Colleen Fraser Andrew Garcia Jeremy Glick Lauren Grandcolas Wanda A. Green Donald F. Greene Linda Gronlund Richard Guadagno Leroy Homer, Jr. Toshiya Kuge CeeCee Lyles Hilda Marcin Waleska Martinez Nicole Miller Louis J. Nacke, II Donald Arthur Peterson Jean Hoadley Peterson Mark Rothenberg Christine Snyder John Talignani Honor Elizabeth Wainio Deborah Ann Jacobs Welsh Kristin Gould White

88 Posted by: Reactionary at September 11, 2011 07:20 PM (4nbyM)

QFT.

Destroy their warmaking ability
Occupy their lands
Destroy institutions of Islamic worship and forbid Islamic worship
Require muslim children to attend Christian schools and Christian religious services.

Problem solved within a generation, and the societies will be the better for it,

Look at what the Jews did with Israel and no oil? No imagine what the Jews would do with Oil...

89 Oh, gack, now it smells like poop in here, too. 

90 Mugiwara, that was tough to read, I'm very sorry.

91  Never forget!

92 Someone linked this the other day, but Bill Whittle's "Tribes" piece from a couple of years back fits in very well with the points made by O'Conner and by others.

Do yourself a favor and take the time to read it. It's what we all think and believe, but Whittle has a fantastic way of articulating things

93

I had a 'discussion' a year or so ago with some libstain who tried bumpersticker logic on me:  "It takes TWO to have war".

I replied, "You are correct.  Now tell me, how many does it take to have PEACE?".  I got the deer in a headlights look back.  I told him it may take only two to have war, but it takes EVERYONE to have peace.  If one nation or group wants war, then you will either have war or you have capitulation.  Wanting peace was nice, but it doesn't occur uniliaterally.

Why are such simple concepts so difficult for leftists to understand?

94

They also had to shut down a terminal out in Kansas City because of a suspicious package.

Looks like no explosive materials were found, but they're still examining everything.

95 I want peace. Unlike leftists I know the quickest and surest path to peace is to destroy our enemy's war-making ability, occupy their lands and reeducate them. Works everytime its been applied.

Posted by: Holger at September 11, 2011 07:15 PM (zaVyn)

 

True.  Alas - we don't have enough strength to do it (especially since our war fighting doctrine as of late is focused on not killing any more of our enemies than absolutely necessary).  We do, however, have the strength to vaporize population centers at relatively low cost.  If ever we are hurt badly enough to develop the will to use that strength, then finally there will be some hope of ending the conflict.

96 75 Yes, like EricW on the last thread wishing for the death of billions of innocent people. Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 06:30 PM (xXvOQ) You're an ass. Posted by: ErikW at September 11, 2011 07:09 PM (jq1lM) Fine. But at least I don't advocate the murder of an entire religion, men, women and children. I guess I'll have to live with being an ass. Seriously, think about what you wrote.

97 How many does it take to have a concentration camp?

98 Paraphrasing Dennis Miller...there is no specific amendment in the Bill of Rights that says we have the right not to be blown up while we sit at our workdesk. For some people, that right is inherently in there.

99 Posted by: blogforce one at September 11, 2011 07:23 PM (lICB9)

Bless you for posting that, blogforce one.  It's quite humbling.

100 First: There were CHILDREN on those planes. That still is what makes me seethe the most. Second: my younger son was almost 6. He said, "Mommy, I'm scared." Without hesitation I replied, "We're Americans. We don't get scared. We get even." His dream ever since has been to go to the Naval Academy.

101 dirk i'm sorry, but islam is not a religion...it's a cult and it promotes death not life....there are no innocents in islam...they are taught the koran....and that is not a peaceful loving book......mohammed was a piece of shit camel fucking child molester and his god was what he pulled out of his ass.......so while you are entitled to your opinion...erikw and myself are entitled to ours....and when the sword is coming down on your neck remember how peaceful islam is.........and it has nothing to do with politics.....it has to do with common sense...which apparently you lack

102 Fine. But at least I don't advocate the murder of an entire religion, men, women and children.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 07:26 PM (xXvOQ)

That's the problem, you can't murder a religion.

103 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

104 It was a declaration of war for everyone but Krugman. He decided it's better to bend over and give your ass up for whomever, than to be a "fake hero".

105 100 First: There were CHILDREN on those planes. That still is what makes me seethe the most.

Second: my younger son was almost 6. He said, "Mommy, I'm scared." Without hesitation I replied, "We're Americans. We don't get scared. We get even."

His dream ever since has been to go to the Naval Academy.

Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at September 11, 2011 07:27 PM (78nv6)

I posted this story last night.  This was one of the absolute most heartbreaking stories I heard.  And it was on Oprah (sigh, I know).

A father whose young son had won a trip to LA with his teacher, was working at the Pentagon, and left his office.  The plane with his son hit the area of his office.

I'll never as long as I live forget his mask of a face.  He just said, "I wish I'd been at my desk." 

My husband and would have felt the same way.  Take me with you, my sweet boy.

106 Fine. But at least I don't advocate the murder of an entire religion, men, women and children. I guess I'll have to live with being an ass. Seriously, think about what you wrote.

107

That's the problem, you can't murder a religion.

Nope. 

But you can sure as hell make some shit up and call it a religion!

108 I find nothing drives liberals crazier when I tell them if they truly want peace they should pray for victory.  The longest lasting periods of peace in human history tend to follow decisive military victories.  

109 Well, I see in the Parker thread the usual hateful/attention whore trolls are back.  Proudonkey, walter, and "it".

110 Posted by: L Ron Hubbard at September 11, 2011 07:33 PM (PqyOZ)

Much of what constitutes "religion" is made-up shit.

111 Fine. But at least I don't advocate the murder of an entire religion, men, women and children. I guess I'll have to live with being an ass. Seriously, think about what you wrote.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 07:26 PM (xXvOQ)

 

If those muz women and kiddies you love so much have their way, you won't have to worry about living as an ass.  You'll convert, or you'll die screaming. 

Until Islam is gone, it will be on the offensive.  The Koran-believing Muslim is more murderous and less reasonable or civilized than the worst SS man.  Until they are, collectively, eliminated they will continue to be a lethal nuisance.

112

You can't murder a religion, but you can inform its followers that the next American so much as given a dirty look will result in Mecca being vaprized and unapproachable for the next 50,000 years or so.

 

(With a courtesy leaflet giving 12 hours warning to evacuate of course).

113   Bastards  Messed with the wrong outfit. The U.S.A. ! Bad stuff will happen to bad  people.  Nuff said.

114 85 Sure, I have something constructive to say. Wishing the death of a billion or so innocent people based on religion is fucking insane. Do you subscribe to this form of "conservatism"? I certainly don't.  Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 06:47 PM (xXvOQ)   It may not be "conservatism" but it certainly is pragmatic realism.  This comment is exemplary of the kind of simpering weakness that insures we'll never win, never have peace.  There is not one place on earth with a muslim majority, or large muz plurality, that is not turned into an utter shit hole by those fucking animals. Everywhere the Islam flourishes, civilization falls.  The only thing capable of keeping any Muz land remotely liveable is vast oil wealth.  And even then, sharia reigns (for those not rich enough to ignore it).  The muz, by their nature, bring nothing good.  The only apparent exceptions are not really muz at all - they simply self-identify out of habit or family obligation.  Those people are not believing Muslims any more than Obama is a believing Christian.  People like Dick Weakjaw think we can just contain those people indefinitely - that we can kill a few of the worst of them and things will settle down.  That is not the nature of Islam.  They aren't going to be disuaded by deaths.  They WANT death. They want death more than thety want victory, because their path to heaven is thought death in the fight against the infidel.  Those too cowardly to fight must try to live in compliance with Sharia, and even then their prospect of getting to muz heaven is pretty damn iffy.  They are committed to Sharia, and to making it the binding law of the land.  The only way to get rid of the plague of Islam is to destroy it utterly, both as a religion and as a collection of individuals. Posted by: Reactionary at September 11, 2011 07:20 PM (4nbyM) So, your solution is delete anyone of the Muslim faith?  That sounds rational, and totally doable.   You willing to off the kids yourself?

115 This is what gets me. We're constantly brainwashed into thinking that anger is bad. That somehow we need to be, at best, emotionless robots and at worst, craven little wimps who beg for mercy/understanding.
I remember when it happened I was still in high school and I was amazed (though I shouldn't have been) at how my teachers and classmates reacted.
There's nothing wrong with rage, or hatred for that matter. Not when it is towards things like this. I am so sick and tired of the general message regarding 9/11 being nothing but weeping and overly-introspective navel-gazing.

116 Posted by: Jimmah at September 11, 2011 07:37 PM (F13r2)

One of Islams teachings is that the Dajjal and the Jews will destroy Mecca.

117

Fine. But at least I don't advocate the murder of an entire religion, men, women and children. I guess I'll have to live with being an ass. Seriously, think about what you wrote.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 07:26 PM (xXvOQ)

They all deserve death because sometime down the line, those kids will grrow up to be terrorists and strap on a bomb.

 

118

If another attack on the scale of 9/11 or greater occurs in the coming months or years, there will be two kinds of Americans. One will be the type that tries to say that Islam is a religion of peace that only has a few extremists in its midst. The other type will be those that recognize that there never has been an apology for 9/11, and that behind closed doors, 99% of Muslims support CAIR, Jihad, and the terrorists. This type will be those that go out and burn every last American mosque to the ground and hunt their cult followers.

There will be no middle ground. We all will need to choose sides.

 

119 So, your solution is delete anyone of the Muslim faith? That sounds rational, and totally doable. You willing to off the kids yourself?

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 07:38 PM (xXvOQ)

 

We won't necessarily have to 'off' the kids, the girls anyway.  We can tell the fathers that their daughter kissed a Christian boy.  The father will take care of killing his own child.  Happens all the time.  

120  To put it into perspective, Those in the Ummah. or Muslim world if asked in a poll;
Question; If you as a devout Muslim could push a button and VAPORIZE all non-believers, and everything they have ever created, would you do it?

Likely answer by over 90% .... Yes! with out a doubt or any remorse. The 10% remainder would say; Yes!, but only if they refuse to show unwavering allegiance to ALLAH.  There you have the crux of the challenge here.

121 I think in some ways we've lost. We can win, but we won't do it. I hope I'm wrong, but things don't look great. I don't know how far we'd have to go to stop them, but we've demonstrated, at least as a nation, that it doesn't matter because we won't do it.  That's what makes me angry today.

122

116Posted by: Jimmah at September 11, 2011 07:37 PM (F13r2)

One of Islams teachings is that the Dajjal and the Jews will destroy Mecca.
------

 

Good, they have no business being there in the first place since its pretty arguable that Mohamed didn't even exist, and if he did, he was never in Mecca or Medina.

 

123

Much of what constitutes "religion" is made-up shit.

 

I was going to point that out. 

Thanks for saving me the trouble of getting out the seer stones.

124 Posted by: blogforce one at September 11, 2011 07:45 PM (lICB9)

So would Jenna Elfman. (heh)

125 Well, like Tami, we're the moms of young men fighting this shit.

Pray for our brave sons and daughters.  They're all that's standing between you and the "Barbarians at the Gate."

126 Posted by: Joseph Smith at September 11, 2011 07:48 PM (PqyOZ)

If Moroni had only left the plates, you wouldn't have that problem.

127 So, your solution is delete anyone of the Muslim faith?  That sounds rational, and totally doable.   You willing to off the kids yourself?

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 07:38 PM (xXvOQ)

 

Just because a job is ugly and disturbing doesn't mean it should not be done.  Alas - there are too many Muz controlling too many currently vital resources to just wipe them all off the earth immediately (though, long term, it would be worth it).  The first step should be forced deportation of all those on US soil.  Once alternate energy sources were worked out then we could take up the task of warring on their nations and carrying out the obliteration of their population centers.  Simultaneously we should throw cash and politicial support at like-minded organizations in other lands, especially Europe. 

We have a binary choice.  Either half-heartedly fight Islam forever (or until it finally wins), or fight it with seriousness and work to destroy it.  This can't be accomplished over night, but we're still stronger, smarter, better people - we can smash them.

128 I loathe muslims with every fiber of my being. They can all burn in hell,

129 #114 I don't advocate killing Muslim children. I do advocate making them orphans. By the way you misspelled Dick. And if you are concerned about these kids getting killed like I am you need to advise them not to dance in the streets when their fathers, uncles or cousins kill our citizens.

130

Posted by: Grayson at September 11, 2011 07:41 PM (mCOXJ)

 

Well said.

131 Dirk is just expressing what we are taught is *good*.

Dirk is you assertion that Al Qaeda is just 100-500 bad guys and that as such we should just give them a pass?  Probably not.

Id it that it is 10,000 or so of a billion give or take and as such we should give the whole billion a pass because otherwise "we are worse that the terrs"? again probably not

I don't think anyone here is saying that the first step in a clash of civilizations is eradication, but I am also just as certain that very few people think *shrug who cares get over it* WRT their little pyrotechnic temper tantrums.

At the end of the fay you either believe that the western world has the right to security or not.  If we have the right to security you have to decide how culpable a state is when its citizens act internationally to attack other sovereign nations.  The modern internationalist model of the sovereignty of nations and some Geneva convention model of civilization as rendered is a weakness not a strength.

It is my observation that the Middle Eastern nations are using "extranational" organizations of operatives as deniable assets to engage in attacks on nations without having responsibility a form of plausible deniability in intelligence operations.  Considering liberals were aghast at the potential of US use of such in Southeast Asia, South America, and Africa in the '80s I find the "shrug" at holding countries that are in all likelihood definitely using deniable assets to advance their agenda to be puzzling.  It is unlikely that you or Krugman for example would support an ostensibly rogue organization of Americans most with military or intelligence service going around engaging in asymmetric warfare in African coastal nations with the objective of resource acquisition and in the end this is analogous to the situation in Libya currently going on with our providing air support to "good guy rebels" who were killing US troops as recently as 15 months ago.

I would not dare suggest this is a morally superior choice to using first tier forces in a conventional CoIn mission profile by the way just highlighting by way of illustration that when thought of as benefiting the US asymmetry would be "bad".

I do not believe the current US model is correct, and I suspect economic warfare forcing the ME nations to lose their terror habit would have been a better path but it would have hurt EUrope.  The United States forcefully going into these nations to remove the tumor of illegal operatives gives the regime moral standing with the populace.  I suspect toppling some nations would be necessary but it would have to be case by case.

The issue becomes how to incentivize the ME nations into deciding the cost of using extralegal forces.

You can kill government forces

You can eradicate the facilities where they gather and train regardless of location

You can bribe the government

You can garrison whole nations

You can send out death teams if operatives like Mossad did in response to Munich

You can nuke em

I don't think killing 1 billion is needed or likely, but I do know that the exhibition of the lack of willingness to close ranks around Bush undermined the incentive and makes greater numbers of death more likely down the road.  How many Muslims have to die to establish tolerance is not up to us unless we submit tomorrow.  The point at which Muslim nations have the Nancy Pelosi approved lightbulb go "pop" is in proportion to how heavy a burden we make them carry for the violent people in their midst who break international law.

1 more or a billion the terror attacks will stop.

The Radical Muslims are trying to gain weapons that will generate megadeaths, it is far better to get this out of the way sooner rather than later.

132 Posted by: phoenixgirl if you are not angry you have forgotten at September 11, 2011 07:29 PM (eOXTH)

Bravo, phoenixgirl!!!

133 You "Islam is a cult, not a religion" people...

I'm starting to hear some of you talk about how the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were justified...

How would you like your own little sovereign nations like the American Indians?

134 @131: Unfortunately, the Western democracies have proven over a century now that they always first need to get sucker punched before they temporarily wake up. Pearl Harbor was a case in point. So was 9/11. I fear for my country when I think we have allowed North Korea and Iran to have nukes. That we allow Pakistan - the epicenter of worldwide terror today - to keep nukes. Of course, all it will take will be for midtown Manhattan to disintegrate in a nuclear fireball and all the PC bullshit of the Left will instantly melt away along with several million Manhattanites. Alas, that is what I fear it will take before we do with the Middle East what I think is ultimately inevitable.

135 Posted by: KirkCameronLeftMeBehind at September 11, 2011 08:12 PM (iZ6fL) What makes you think the Crusades were Unjustified? Because you imagine the entire Christian Mediterranean world voluntarily decided to become Muslim... is that what you think?? Please explain.

136 I'm starting to hear some of you talk about how the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were justified...

How would you like your own little sovereign nations like the American Indians?

Posted by: KirkCameronLeftMeBehind at September 11, 2011 08:12 PM (iZ6fL)

Yeah, well that shit is over, so we can't change it.  This is now, this is real, this is something we can correct.  Go fuck yourself.

137 134 CoolCzech.

I think it may have happened had Gore been President.  It is easy to forget that OBL did not do maximum damage.  Had the timetable been 45 minutes later he would likely have got 10,000 or more.  We got lucky horrifying as that is to say.

I also don't think it will come to that, populations have a habit of getting their way even if the people in charge would rather they not.

If the message the left wants to send to the west is that "terror" works I suspect that elements of the native populations will say "great glad to hear it we'll get right on it!"

What will be charming will be watching the western nations go after native terrorists harder than the Jihadi....

138 133 You "Islam is a cult, not a religion" people...

I'm starting to hear some of you talk about how the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were justified...

How would you like your own little sovereign nations like the American Indians?

Posted by: KirkCameronLeftMeBehind at September 11, 2011 08:12 PM (iZ6fL)

 

Kirk....

When the day comes when real Americans begin the needed purge of Muslims among us, I suggest you step aside and not become collateral damage.

139 Nice dig at Kirk Cameron, btw. But you know: at least he KNOWS what he believes, and why he believes it. Tools like you need to get you marching orders from the DNC, don't ya, guy? How 'bout that "scary" Perry, Huh, Tool?? You never heard of him until 3 weeks ago, but now the DNC is telling you he is "scary," so you're just quivering in your little girlie jeans, aren't ya??

140 Of course, all it will take will be for midtown Manhattan to disintegrate in a nuclear fireball and all the PC bullshit of the Left will instantly melt away along with several million Manhattanites. Alas, that is what I fear it will take before we do with the Middle East what I think is ultimately inevitable.

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 11, 2011 08:14 PM (niZvt)

 

I doubt even a horror such as that would be enough to snap the surviving libtards out of their stupidity.  For them, other people dying is never a big deal.

141 I take the pessimistic view of the future, as presented well by Mark Steyn in his discussions of demographics.  That future will belong to those that are there for it.

Muslims are breeding at a rate well beyond replacement, while we are barely keeping our reproductive heads above water.  In just a few generations, they will overwhelm us.  No need for nukes, no need for tanks, warplanes, or even hand weapons.

Native-born Muslim women will be burqua-clad in cities and their megaplex suburbs from Miami to Seattle, from Boston to San Diego, and all our north American cities will be studded with minarets.  The last refuge of the unwashed nonbelievers will be in heavily-armed and barricaded compounds way out in the boonies.  The cities will be muslim, everywhere.

142 141 I'm in a new york state of mind,

Perhaps, I think as the boomers die out and the Gen X women reflect and militant feminism abates our birth rate will go up.  It is not as though the west has forgotten how to rut, we just added vacuum cleaners for the aftermath.  We can cull the Muslim herd if need be tomorrow by not selling them food and destroying their medical base.

I'm not into the whole "race war" thing anyway.

Schools subtly program kids to want fewer kids and I have been deprogramming my son every time they try to program him.

Adversity and national distress increase the birth rate when needed, and I am sure it can be done again.

143 142 I hope you're right!! I've encouraged my children to have a houseful of kiddies and teach them well. If we all do the same thing, it could work out. Not as a general statement for the entire country, but for conservatives in particular. James Taranto at the WSJ has an entire series of posts about the "Roe Effect" changing the abortion debate that makes a similar same point.

144 140 I doubt even a horror such as that would be enough to snap the surviving libtards out of their stupidity.

Yeah, if 9-11 didn't snap a person out of their stupidity, what could? That's what worries me. We have a good percentage of the population that cannot be reached. I don't know if there is a solution for that.

145 143 Lana,

one of the less noble side effects of the information age is the distortion of just how much power we as individuals really have....

it magnifies the braying of the entrenched  people in power in the media and their memes for the most part......

*we* control the future here not people who refuse to breed....

If the liberals want .09 kids per couple they are welcome....

I wanted 4, we have one because my wife is malformed, but my son understands the importance of carrying on the line, and that there is a Celestial exhortation for us to be fruitful.

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, and I was so impressed with the moonbats stewardship of our children I cut back my hours and made the decision to place parenting before career while my wife is on active duty.

The west'll be fine in the end I believe in us.

146

The only way to get rid of the plague of Islam is to destroy it utterly, both as a religion and as a collection of individuals.

Posted by: Reactionary

Killing em all isn't a plan, it's a last resort.  What's the hurry?  Why rush to be 500,000 = 1.5B/3000 to 6 = 1.5B/.25B times as murderous as them.  We've got a bunch of SSBNs full of D5s that ought to be good for a few more decades if it comes to that

147 144 Lana,

They were reached, they feared we would be having worse attacks.  Once they established the new equilibrium they reverted to rote.  The only unreachable libs will be the ones who cannot overcome their multi-cult programming and/or moron pacifism.  In the event of a massive war effort survival will kick in coupled with societal expectations.

We conservatives failed to punish the wayward liberals hard enough for their misdeeds, we allowed moderates and the muddled middle to remind us over and over that the people undermining our survival had rights, and because we were not too deeply harmed survival mode never kicked in.

Lose their own version of Mecca and they'll respond.

148  One thing i have to say< so far, no domestic 9/11 attacks here. American Muslims realize the freedom here is too precious to violate. 

149 133 You "Islam is a cult, not a religion" people...

I'm starting to hear some of you talk about how the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition were justified...

How would you like your own little sovereign nations like the American Indians?

Posted by: KirkCameronLeftMeBehind at September 11, 2011 08:12 PM (iZ6fL)

The Crusades were justified fuckhead.  They were defensive wars carried out by Christians to defend and reclaim Christian lands from an aggressive expansionist power.

And the Spanish Inquisition was an internal church aspect and the only time it really dealt with other religions is when they were accusing Catholics of secretly being Jewish.

150 148 blogforce,

I also suspect they have a better appreciation of just how much restraint the US populace has really shown.  Their cousins overseas have not been able to examine the breadth of the land with their own eyes and seen how much land Americans conquered.  Add in their more intimate knowledge of our relations with the indians and when need be the mexicans and the American muslim is holding their cards close to their chests.

All that said we have in fact broken up several cells here in the US, they were not as spectacular a set of plots as 9/11 but then again were I OBL's strategic adviser I would be warning him not to kill so many again at once so who knows?

151 sven10077,

Good on you to place parenting above career and God bless your wife who is serving! I did everything I could do by homeschooling 5 kids, teaching them what was right and true and encouraging them/nagging them to have at least 5 of their own. I was thinking of that shampoo commercial where they tell 2 friends and they tell 2 friends and so on and so on and the entire thing just multiplies exponentially.

I agree with you that the west will survive, but I'm just not so certain about what the definition of "the west" will include at this point. And again, I hope I'm wrong about that.

152 I wonder what ace is doing today.

153 152 Steevy,

unless I miss my guess missing friends.

154

152I wonder what ace is doing today.

----------

hehe, this whole thread is ban material.

155 I wonder what ace is doing today.

Probably negotiating with Breitbart for our souls. 

156 154 Jimmah,

yeah discussing child production is pretty cutting edge

157 155 peaches,

I'll give mine for free

158

Lebanon, 83, was a declaration of War...

Cole, was a delcaration of War...

First time they tried to bomb the World Trade Towers, was a Decleration of War...

Lockerby Bomber, was a Declaration of War...

Need I continue?  9/11 happened because we were not listening...

159

156154 Jimmah,

yeah discussing child production is pretty cutting edge
--------

Funny you should mention that, I'm probably as racist as the next guy, and when I see white people having a ton of kids I like it. The biggest threat is that moslems are having 8 kids per woman, and whites are having < 2  in some parts even less. Do the math.

160 I guess I should have said non-moslems instead of whites. Too many beers.

161 I'll give mine for free

Posted by: sven10077 at September 11, 2011 09:10 PM (AEIYh)

sven, you would leave MoronNation for teh Breitbart?  Say it ain't so . . .

162 159 Jimmah,

they have to get here, convert the locals, or we have to shrug and join en mass.

I am not racist about it at all because race, culture, and insane piety are not all intertwining or unable to be molded.

Christianity has survived active persecution, borderline ELEs etc etc etc and if anything I hope that our culture post-enlightenment will hold on as well.

The US is not Germany and 2 generations ago we kicked out 3-5 kids per couple.  I am more worried about the post-antibiotic age, but in a way even that little event will help crank up births since your designer babies will suddenly need "back ups".  Add in possible cloning, theories on cellular rejuvenation through cloning and on and on Islam better hurry up and win and frankly I don't think they will.

Never forget the less known facts of the 9/11 hijackers itineraries to their fans back in the ME that they were whoremongers and drunks.

The muslims have an internal rot and a faith that can only be followed at gunpoint, exposed to western decadence here they will see that rot spread even further if it comes to that.....

our military has shown what the proper density to ability ratios are.

163 All I took exception with was the wholesale murder of anyone Muslim by Erik. Now I'm a dimwitted lib dhimmi. Okay... Go back and read what he wrote. Then read what I wrote. Fuck, I can't believe I actually have to type this. If you endorse the killing of anyone Muslim I probably can't help you. I hope God can reach you though. Cuz, that's just not normal thinking.

164 161 Peaches,

nah I've been here off and on a long time....

I go through phases of long lurking though especially when I am busy.

The thing is I did encourage Ace to consider formally allying with Andrew.  Ace has really tightened his game the last few years, and his instincts on what level of hostility is tolerable to stay credible with the moderates was dead on.  I respect the posters here and I respect Ace a bunch.

Peaches we have to make contacts here in the virtual world and attract our corner of the movement to rally 'round the flag and crawl on broken glass almost no matter who we nominate.  part of our loss was the decision of the "SouthPark Republicans" to go to RONPAUL!!!1111 and Bob Barr as a protest vote, and we need to use our influence to bring them back home.

All of us on this site live in two worlds, and we should use this place to sharpen our points, and humor to use in the real world with the swayable folks we know.  We have the more moral and freedom based ideology, and we take the protection of America more seriously.  There is a reason Bush won twice warts and all, and the Obama the swayable part of the 52% were sold is not the guy who they were sold.  This needs hammered home, never forget he ran as "purple not red or blue".

We can win this, and we must win this but it will take work and networks to offset the donk advantages in academia, the old media, and the civil service.

165 163 Dirk,

There is an argument to be made to be as hard as you can as fast as you can to force clarity on an enemy.

We didn't so the moral window we had to do so has passed.

166 154 152I wonder what ace is doing today. Answer: not chiming in on the wholesale murder of Muslim men women and children. Unexpectedly...

167 165 163 Dirk, There is an argument to be made to be as hard as you can as fast as you can to force clarity on an enemy. We didn't so the moral window we had to do so has passed. Posted by: sven10077 at September 11, 2011 09:31 PM (AEIYh) Strawman. I take issue with the extermination of anyone of a certain faith, as mentioned by a poster on another thread. Nothing more.

168 167 Dirk,

you spent your time over in the ME horsewhispering Ima Dinner Jacket and the Imams off the ledge?

The fact is that a properly fast and properly furious initial response would have negated the need to harm probably any more collateral than we have already.

I get it you're super moral.

"clap"

169 Strawman. I take issue with the extermination of anyone of a certain faith, as mentioned by a poster on another thread. Nothing more.

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 09:34 PM (Th0yy)

Really, Dirk SuckerOfCock?  I haven't heard you say ONE word about the face that Islam calls for the wholesale extermination of everyone who isn't Muslim.  Asshole.

170 face, fact, whatevs

171 166 Dirk,

evidently pointing out cornerstones of game theory on proper response levels seems to mean that I have stated my personal taste in proper level and rate of increase of force.

Good to know.

There is little doubt we failed in the overall goal of reducing the cost-benefit ratio of ME nations harboring AQ low enough to reduce AQ to a non-entity and instead have gone to the garrison model......

so you need not worry about "nuke 'em 'til the fish scream" and most not certainly with the current PotUS.

172 Three years ago our country dozed off.

Nothing's changed.

173 170 Peaches,

It is easy to forget that there are some structural changes that need to be made to Islam to prevent its eradication eventually anyway.

They never had a reformation that led to secularization, and they have not had their version of Locke.

The Chinese, Indians, Russians, and EUros all have issues with militant Islam...one day one of the actors will make a big statement....

it is not "just about us"

174 172 BJS,

I dunno I think they overreached again today with their multi-culti orgasm....

we'll see

175 Parting shot for the day from this stupid dhimmi. I will lock arms with any patriotic Muslim before I would consider even glancing at a "patriot" that entertains, let alone types and submits the notion of extermination of all Muslims. I object to a single comment that advocated the death of all Muslims. I appreciate the thought out soliloquies but please, address the notion I actually addressed initially.

176 Sven, as a lurker I normally enjoy your posts. But I think you have me pegged wrong. I objected to the elimination of anyone Muslim. Nothing more. If you're for killing everything Muslim you are neither a thinker or a conservative. That's my beef.

177 Really, Dirk SuckerOfCock?  I haven't heard you say ONE word about the face that Islam calls for the wholesale extermination of everyone who isn't Muslim.  Asshole. Posted by: Peaches at September 11, 2011 09:40 PM (/ybwc) So you want murder anyone that adheres to an entire religion too dear? Why? And does that include the patriots that are currently serving?

178 175 Dirk,

you're in good company then....I must have missed where I was advocating doing anything to anyone here in the US....

my wife deployed to both Iraq and 'ghani with Muslim soldiers in her unit....

they're fine....of course they are also not the ones going Jihadi Jim are they?

179 So you want murder anyone that adheres to an entire religion too dear? Why? And does that include the patriots that are currently serving?

Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 10:02 PM (Th0yy)

No, Dirk.  You are (perhaps once again) extrapolating without good cause.  I would just like to hear your thoughts on the instructions in the Quran to kill all infidels.  Your one-sided condemnation is getting very tiresome.

180 176 Dirk,
Look we're talking past each other I fear and I am not trying to humiliate you call you a dhimmi or anything.

What I am discussing is a game theory concept that was extremely relevant last in the cold war.

I would far prefer the number of Muslims required to teach them tolerance to be "zero" I am willing to tolerate it if necessity requires it to be "all".  There are plenty of tools in our toolbox to walk slowly along the number line.  The thing that the opposing team must never do is doubt your resolution to see the cause through.

The problem is I fear, that we have lost sight that the reason we are on the ground in the region is to instill that lesson.

regards,
sven

181 That's all nice Sven. I only object to the murder of Antony Muslim, as stated by another commenter. Nothing you wrote addresses that.

182 Any muslim. Stupid phone.

183 No, Dirk.  You are (perhaps once again) extrapolating without good cause.  I would just like to hear your thoughts on the instructions in the Quran to kill all infidels.  Your one-sided condemnation is getting very tiresome. Posted by: Peaches at September 11, 2011 10:08 PM (/ybwc) No. I initially objected to a very clear comment from ErikW that said all Muslim men, women and children should die. Everything you wrote has nothing to do with that. I'm a lurker that doesn't perceive you as a genocidal bigot, btw. If you wanna kill all Muslims, then I'm wrong. That is all I objected to.

184 181 Dirk,

as I said you're moral.

Me, today's 9/11....emotions run a bit high I almost took the day off from here.

Ace has rules and he'll enforce them, me today I don't tend to judge so harshly....

I have little use for recounts 2000 types that still can't let go, no use for troofers, and am not too fond of people who bleat "nuke 'em all!" 365....

today though....

Look I think the way Bloomy and Bambi decided to handle today was gauche and in the long run harmful to both the US and the Muslim world and it is magnifying the depth of hostile rhetoric in some cases not diminishing it.....

if the left wants us to forget 9/11 they can just shut the fuck up and not have a ceremony.

I don't need keynes Klugman, and Kathleen Spitz Parker appointing themselves my grief counselor....

it bothered me enough I posted despite my initial intentions, and I am sure it made the pain in some hearts searing......

this event is not going away for a long time.

185 And yet, Dirk, I am still unclear on your thoughts regarding the stated obligation, in the Quran, of every Muslim to kill every infidel, man, woman and child.  You seem oddly reluctant to address that.

186 Posted by: sven10077 at September 11, 2011 10:05 PM (AEIYh) I thank you and your wife's service. This whole thread boils down to my objection to killing all Muslims. Ask ErikW. He said as much on an earlier thread. Anything you've written is totally unrelated to my original complaint.

187 186 Dirk,

America is easy to want to defend but my wife is the one still on active duty, I've been out awhile and am just a spouse.

like I said reread what I wrote....

Erik is not that way ordinarily, and it is not my blog....

when I say the way today was handled was counterproductive there is a reason....

we get hit again after the nation has been told to turn on barney the dinosaur emotions will be worse.

188 185 And yet, Dirk, I am still unclear on your thoughts regarding the stated obligation, in the Quran, of every Muslim to kill every infidel, man, woman and child.  You seem oddly reluctant to address that. Posted by: Peaches at September 11, 2011 10:25 PM (/ybwc) Love you Peaches but I just don't stand for the elimination of anyone Muslim. Sorry I don't. We have plenty of patriots that are Muslim, feel free to pull that rug out.

189 185 Peaches,

if/when he responds it will be with some variation of "2 wrongs" don't make a right.....

I don't know how old Dirk is but I wonder if he was politically aware in the Cold War.

Destroying whole cultures if need be was "any day ending with a 'y'..."

my morals were fine in not batting an eye at us firing back if need be

190 188 Dirk,

when you say "anyone Muslim".....

and you won't stand for it....

OBL, Atta, the idiots in Mog '93?

plenty of Muslims volunteer to be eliminated......I don't advocate all by any stretch but could never argue with "some"

191 Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 10:33 PM (Th0yy)

Fuck that noise, Dirk.  Either answer the question or get off our fuckin' lawn.  That is not unreasonable.  Americans killing Muslims = genocide.  Fundamental law of Islam to kill all infidels = {crickets}

Worthless twit

192 Amazing that you refuse to answer her question Dirk.

193 The NukEmAllNow crowd are wrong and immoral but they're also small and uninfluential.  The DontNukEmEver crowd are worse because they're infuential and lying to Muslims about us.  See Van der Leun sp? & Belmont Clubs three conjectures. 
It's even worse because we're dealing with a lunatic faction that hurtles us & them into the fire as a magical invocation to God.  Islam must be changed by Muslims into a faith stops hirabists sp? just like Christians mostly ignore chiliasts now (and prosecute them if necessary).  The neo-con get them to live with us & deal with their own maniacs is actually the minimum start, it's working some and is scalable.  Ignoring them didn't work. 

194 192 Buzzion,

I am just amused at the refusal to confront the notion that Muslims are less worthy of reciprocity than the soviets were....

it tells me that in all likelihood Donks past LBJ in power would not have responded to a Soviet first strike with all they could muster....

that actually terrifies me more than Bambi

the idea that the "massively moderate muslim middle" is somehow innately less culpable for the culture's sins than totalitarians from Europe because political correctness deems it so means we'll never win

195 193 Dave A,

exactly....

in the way they handled today the left is giving the Muslims false info on our response level....

making it less likely they corral their mavericks.....making it more likely the lower end solutions and cost work....

just maddening

196

I know my comments will just get lost on here, but we have really lost our way.  9/11 wasn't a declaration of war, more like tricking us into war.  If a little kid walks up kicks you are you going to respond by punching him in the face?  And I was admittedly tricked as well initially before I learned anything about the Middle East.  Our response has led to the deaths and displacement of millions who had nothing to do with 911, that's just reality.  It has emboldened our enemies.  I'm not saying we shouldn't have done anything, I'm just saying the response was way out of proportion.  We started out right, Special Forces took care of Al Qaeda, and then we should have been done after that.  I say that as a special warfare vet and current SOF reservist and also someone who has lived/worked in the Middle East for years as a civilian.  I went to college in the ME.  I know all sorts of paranoid fools on here will call me a dhimmi or accuse me of taqqiya and other such nonsense.  Ok, whatever.  I've been there, have you?  Do you speak Arabic?  I'm just saying.  There is a lot more to the big picture.  Not everything you read on the internet is true.  Islam is not our enemy.  IÂ’ve had my life literally saved by Muslims.  We had and continue to have a lot of friends over there, but we make it really hard on ourselves.

In the past how many other attacks have we seen?  Thread 158 points out a few, Lebanon in '83, USS Cole in Yemen in 2000.  And notice anything about these incidents?  We were in Lebanon.  We were in Yemen.  President Regan responded perfectly by simply leaving.  Keep the spooks there, let the diplomats talk, let private organizations give aid, but we don't need to be forcing ourselves on them.  In Yemen we support a brutal regime that the population has been at war with for years.  The USA has a base in just about every country in the ME, often several.  I don't mean to sound like a liberal, but perspective does matter.  IÂ’m not anti-war.  We need to be smart.  The regimes that run the ME are not benevolent, they're brutal.  We support them.  We keep them in power.  Trust me, trust me, Muslim/Christian/Jew, I don't care what you are, if you were born under the thumb of a hypocritical and vicious despot wouldn't you want to get rid of him?  If some foreign government was helping to keep him in power, how would you feel about them?  If they had a boat in your harbor would you be inclined to attack it?

I'm not advocating the actions of these terrorists, but you guys need some perspective.  I don't mean to burst your bubble, I know you've dedicated so much time to reading Robert Spencer's vitriol and all, but, it's not true.  Yes there are radical aspects to Islam, but there are also radical aspects to Christianity.  Muslims, just like Christians, cling to their religious values when they get backed into a corner.  Muslims around the world aren't scheming to spread Islam and take over the USA, they really couldn't give two shits.  They want to feed their families, see their kids grow up safely and go to school.  They're just people, they want the same darn things we do.  But they are not free, and in response to tribulation they cling to their faith, just like Christians do.  Go read the words of our own founding fathers.  They're words are often so religiously-polarized you'd think they were trying to establish a Christian theocracy.

Context matters.  We are making the situation over there gravely worse.  We encourage the radicalization of Islam by our behavior.  Most of the violence over there isnÂ’t religious in nature, itÂ’s about power and freedom.  Whatever, IÂ’m done with my rant now.  Feel free to flame now.  I just really hope that people will get over this paranoid fear soon.  If not there will be more blood, and weÂ’ll be partially responsible for it.  A large number of conservatives seem to want Armageddon (especially talking to you Beck fans), and itÂ’s frankly a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

197 196 Andrew,

sounds to me like you are while not advocating for what they did you "understand" and have "perspective"....

okay....

one of my solutions was "operation Wrath of God" style operations.....

198 Andrew,

Don't know that I agree with everything you said, but I've certainly pondered the idea that we had too large a footprint in Afganistan as I've heard that from people who actually are involved in this. That makes sense and I see those points.

However, that ship sailed and we are stuck here now and how to deal now is the question in my mind.

199 Oh lookee it's Andee with the NOR LAUP we shouldn't be there crap.
Should we leave South Jersey?  They've taken a couple of plots @Fort Dix.
Seems like these Brutal regimes were at least kicking the Muslim Brotherhoods ass & keeping them busy.

200 Well Done.

201 > 19 After the Japs attacked Pearl, what did they think was going to happen? That we would sue for peace?? Posted by: mike As a matter of fact, yes. That was the expected eventual result by those in charge.

202 191 Posted by: Dirk Squarejaw at September 11, 2011 10:33 PM (Th0yy) Fuck that noise, Dirk.  Either answer the question or get off our fuckin' lawn.  That is not unreasonable.  Americans killing Muslims = genocide.  Fundamental law of Islam to kill all infidels = {crickets} Worthless twit Posted by: Peaches at September 11, 2011 10:39 PM (/ybwc) Peaches, you stupid scrunt. ErikW posted earlier that all Muslim men women and children should just die. I simply disagreed with that. Anything you and Sven have wasted time posting has been an exercise in bloviation. You either support the wholesale murder of Muslims like ErikW said or you don't. Do you?

203 203 dirk, Cut, jib, newsletter..... Anyone who can look at 9/11 and eant to reenact Carebears the Motion Picture has my vote! The above makes as much sense as your inability to comprehend my response.

204

The idea that it takes two to have a war is like the little boy at school telling the bully, "I'm not going to fight you" as he gets bullied and beaten once again.

Reminds me of the Christian who is struck and turns the other cheek to then have his head struck from his neck by a sword.

Wish for pece they say....My Mom used to say a profound thing when we wished for something out of reach....Wish in one hand shit in the other and see wich one fills faster.

If you want peace you have to fight the bully.

205 11708550   p822686  p165675   131-8902+131-8903   600-311-8293