1 As always, these leftist douche-nozzles are always in favor of this kind of stuff.....as long as their own ox is not gored.

2 "Welcome to the party, pal!"

3

Good stuff, Montgomery!!!

Speaking of which, Mark Steyn's, who is always a must-read, latest column is a really, really, reall must-read

4

For those who have never had the pleasure of reading Harper's magazine, it can best be summed up by likening it to a weak-tea version of the New Yorker

and for those of us who've never read the New Yorker?

Honestly, who reads magizines anymore? I occasionally pick up Time in the doctors office just for a laugh, but why shell out 5-8 bucks for something you can get online for free?

5 the interests of the union mainly involve protecting their own jobs rather than the viability of the company they work for.

You'd think they're realize the jobs go away forever when the company folds.

6 Honestly, who reads magizines anymore?

I don't like to take my laptop into the can.

7 And, of course, the funniest thing to me is that he didn't see it coming.

Whenever someone says Liberals don't believe what they're saying, I'm reminded of idiots like MacArthur who, apparently, do believe it.  

And, with the exception of Comic books and semi- (or psuedo-) catalog type magazines (Guns & Ammo and some of the car magazines come to mind, there) does anyone really read print magazines at all anymore?  Among laptops, netbooks, smartphones, and tablets, why on earth would I bother to carry around a print magazine?

8 One minor correction. Unions aren't so much concerned with jobs for their members as much as maintaining salary and perks. Most will allow their members to lose their jobs rather than delay a pay increase for a year.

9 Speaking of unions I posted this on the ONT early this morning. I'm sure the Morons will get a kick out of it.

Unions are exempt from federal laws against violent acts

It is hard to believe that any SCOTUS, liberal or conservative would give this ruling. While on the surface looking at how the law schools describe it it appears non-controversial, but in practice it has resulted in the inability to prosecute union thuggary under the color of federal law.

10 Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 19, 2011 09:50 AM (4ucxv)

Yes, but most union members don't think of it that way.  They believe (not sure why, but they do) that the job isn't going anywhere.  It's just that "management" is trying to "outsource" those jobs to make more money.

They never believe (until the company actually files for bankruptcy- see the UAW in regards to GM & Chrysler) that the company is in any real financial trouble.  So it's not trying to save the ones they can at the expense of the others, it's raising the salaries of "management" at the expense of "labor."

I'm not even going to try to figure out what world they live in to believe that, but they do, indeed, believe it.

11

I think a way to solve the union problem is decentralize unions.

Why can't individual companies have individual unions?

Why do they have to be part of a larger national  or global union.

Why can't people that work at Target be in a Target Union that represents Target workers and knows what's best for them because it only represents people at that store?

I don't think the concept of a union is bad, but what they've become and what they represent is clearly a threat to business in America.

They've become The Government II, an entity that has a Executive-like structure, that spends a lot of money, but doesn't produce anything itself. It may represent workers, but the production comes from the company, not the union itself. The union doesn't make anything, doesn't sell anything, yet they wield so much power.

 

One of my favorite Simpsons scenes(can't find it on youtube)

 

In flashback:
SQUEAKY-VOICED TEEN: You can't treat the working man this way! One day we'll rise up and form a union, and then we'll get the fair and ethical treatment we deserve! But then we'll go too far! We'll get lazy and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!

BURNS' GRANDFATHER: The Japanese? Those sandal-wearing goldfish tenders? Bah! Flimshaw!

Back in the present:

C. MONTGOMERY BURNS: (whistfully) If only we had listened to that young man, instead of sealing him up in the abandoned coke oven.

12 speaking of the UAW.  Cavuto had a car dealership owner on yesterday.  The guy had a giant dealership and he was discussing the fact that the UAW was now picketing the dealerships of people who sell Honda and all the other "foreign autos".   He was saying these guys work for the union too but it doesn't seem to matter.

I sort of got chills cause what is next, going after anyone driving a car made by a foreign auto maker?

13

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 19, 2011 09:54 AM (8y9MW)

Same mindset of those who think Ogabe has a stash of cash.

...ironically, in this case, however a stash was subsidizing the mag...MacArthur's trust fund as the source.

He could afford to give away some of the money...but not so much a s it would interfere with his lavish life style

14 Don't worry, MacArthur will see his takeover as unique and a one in million type of situation.. but don't worry.. Other Union takeovers are just fine and dandy. 

15 So sweet to see liberals smacked by reality.

16 It's the whole static world view.  They think those jobs are always going to be there.  It's why they can't adapt to changing conditions.  (Side point:  Isn't reacting poorly to changed conditions a known aspect of autism spectrum?  I swear, Liberals of all stripes make more sense when seen in that light...)

17 Posted by: beedubya at January 19, 2011 09:48 AM (AnTyA)

Okay.  That was depressing.  Anyone got a razor?

More seriously: It's time for a Constitutional Restoration movement.  In the 1800's, the movement which lead to the Church of Christ and the Christian Church (mirror denominations which have largely the same beliefs), was called the "Campbell-Stone Restoration Movement."  One of their main ideas was that the Church of the time had moved too far from the Church as designed by Christ and implemented by the Apostles to be "reformed" (we might say "tinkering around the edges" today), and so it needed to be restored- knocked down to the foundations and rebuilt.

I think our Government is the same way.  We don't need to reform Congress or SCOTUS or the Presidency- we need to restore them to their original foundations.

I just wish I had the first clue how to go about so doing.

18 10 Yep,I've talked to union members that tell me exactly that.Corporate fat cats with piles of money that just want to stick it to the working man.

19 Bitch set me up.

20
Liberal ideals are good ideals........ as long as they are foisted onto OTHER people.

Always was.  Always will be.

21 5 the interests of the union mainly involve protecting their own jobs rather than the viability of the company they work for.

You'd think they're realize the jobs go away forever when the company folds.

They NEVER think that far ahead.

Grocery store employees have struck against at least two chains in Baton Rouge over the past 30+ years searching for better wages and other benefits.

When those chains, Kroeger and National (part of Loblaws, a Canadian chain), pulled out of town, the employees cheered and thought they'd won.

22 Yep,I've talked to union members that tell me exactly that.Corporate fat cats with piles of money that just want to stick it to the working man.

How would a union member know what a working man is?

23 Don't worry lads we're on your side
Solidarity forever.
Solidarity, solidarity
Solidarity forever
We're proud to be working class,
Solidarity forever.

24 When those chains, Kroeger and National (part of Loblaws, a Canadian chain), pulled out of town, the employees cheered and thought they'd won.

Okay, seriously: how can you perceive a world in which those (what, 200 - 300) jobs just disappear is winning?  For anybody?

25 23 Some of them are hard workers.They'll even admit that the union saves the lazy and incompetent.They still blame management for everything though.

26 The most delusional union workers though are the municipal employees.They have the most ridiculous contracts you can imagine in places like NYC.No fucking way they will ever get the entitlements they are contracted to get.When they realize it,there will be rioting.

27 23 Yep,I've talked to union members that tell me exactly that.Corporate fat cats with piles of money that just want to stick it to the working man.

How would a union member know what a working man is?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 19, 2011 10:05 AM (TpXEI)

I've watched "9-to-5" on AMC. I know what they look like.

28 O/T: From the LiveScience link in the sidebar:
"Of about half a dozen scientists contacted, most were unaware of the report, which was circulating on the Internet. They offered a number of hypothetical explanations..."

Okay, when I was taking science in High School, proposing an explanation of an event about which you knew nothing was not offering "hypothetical explanations."  It was speculation.  More accurately, it might be called taking a "Wild Ass Guess."

Every day we see more evidence of the death of the Age of Reason and descent into the age of "'Shut up,' he explained."

29 Where der's onion, der's stink.

30

The problem with people like this is he truly believes that other business owners/managers are "out to get" the worker and that those "others" exploit the worker but, him and lefties like him, actually look out for the worker and are good bosses that the workers love and adore. 

so, with this mind-set, in other businesses the worker is always right and management is always wrong, unions are good and pure and management is evil and dishonest.

I don't think an experience like this will change his mind-set.  He'll just chalk it up to some kind of misunderstanding that continue to believe that, except in his case, management is evil and unions "good".

 

31 29 Also known as "talking out of your ass".

32 Ah, remember when the producers of the ultra-liberal TV show Murphy Brown broke their union workers during a strike? Man, that incident's really gone down the rabbit hole; I could find no info on it on the web.

33 schadenfruede!!!!

34

A few years back, the nurses at the local hospital organization(which has 3 or 4 area hospitals in different counties) were talked into letting the 'Steelworkers' union represent them; the union then called for an immediate strike for "better benefits". Mind you, this is an area where Wal-Mart pays the best wages, there arent any jobs except Coal Mining jobs, etc. Anyway, after almost two years of striking, the hospital made an offer, which was excitedly accepted by the nurses; the union, on the other hand, said " No thanks, we think you guys(the hospital), can cough up quite a bit more to fill our union coffers". The nurses, who got what they had wanted all along, then told the union to go fuck themselves, left said union, and are back to work. This showed a LOT of people in this area how unions really work. I loved it.

35 AllenG (Dedicated Tenther)--yeah, I know what they believe.  I'm just...bemused...that after decades of watching unions voting to close companies, and companies dissolving while the unions are on strike, the people in the unions never look around and wonder, "If the union votes to close Mecury Marine, there's no other manufacturing jobs in Fond du Lac..."

36 Fear not, Luddite capitalist swine.  We shall bail out the magazine- and the union- with riches from my secret stash.

37 The irony is, McA is clearly an idiot.  This is not something unionization can fix--all a union really does is influence hiring, firing, and compensation.  None of those are at the heart of the Harper's crisis, so it was precisely the wrong step to take.  It's all fool vs. fool there, and I'm having a hard time believing all the fools won't suffer for their stupidity--in my mind, a happy ending!

38 John MacArthur needs an ethanol subsidy.

39 Okay, when I was taking science in High School, proposing an explanation of an event about which you knew nothing was not offering "hypothetical explanations."  It was speculation.  More accurately, it might be called taking a "Wild Ass Guess."

Oh, but these are scientists.  Scientists use SWAG to come to their conclusions.

40 Full quote:

But this isnÂ’t to say there arenÂ’t a few remaining pockets of working-class resistance to the money power that Wall Street and the DLC would like to crush. And right now, Rattner and the Treasury Department task forceÂ’s biggest target is not the overpaid executive staff at General Motors, but the United Auto Workers union, the countryÂ’s best and traditionally most honest mass labor organization.

John R. MacArthur
4/15/09


The UAW - Think of them as the Wolverines in the movie Red Dawn.

41 Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 19, 2011 10:20 AM (4ucxv)

But it goes beyond that, too.  Why aren't there other manufacturing jobs in Fon du Lac?

Or, in my case, Arlington, TX?  We have a GM plant (I believe the only one, or one of only two) that produces the Hybrid SUVs for GM.  Those jobs probably aren't going away any time soon, but when GM was about to go under, our mayor (and some of our city council) had to run up to Washington to beg Congress to authorize the bail-out.  Why?  Because Arlington's economy is so reliant on that GM plant, that it would have killed any improvements the City wants to make.

So, instead of trying to grow the area with manufacturing and light industry, we focus on short-term or one-time windfalls like the Superbowl or a couple of College Bowl games...

It's like most of the town believes that (in Right-to-work Texas, no less) that the UAW basically running GM will save us all.

42 pwnt

43 I Deconstruct My Recent French Vote

A few days after I voted in the first round of the French presidential election, I dropped by the French Cultural Center on Fifth Avenue to attend a reception in honor of the American novelist Paul Auster—and to gather some political intelligence.

So I had the luxury of voting intelligently for president of my maternal republic in a way that I’m almost never afforded in my paternal republic. My choice was between a radical with whom I mostly agree (Bové), the candidate of the traditional left to whom I was drawn by instinct (the Socialist Royal) and the candidate with the best chance of beating Sarkozy (François Bayrou of the center-right UDF party).

John R. MacArthur
5/2/07


Um - that's legal?  You can vote in other countries elections and still vote in US elections?

44

For my own amusement, I, Congressman Boy, introduce "The National Right-to-Work Act" in the belief that the country would be better served by not requiring union membership in order to be employed.

Listening to union leaders trash this bill is greatly amusing, especially when I ask them why they don't support the freedom of the American worker to decide for himself whether or not he wants to join a union.

Valu-Rite sets the stage.

45 I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning. Smells like ... victory.

46 Um - that's legal?  You can vote in other countries elections and still vote in US elections?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 19, 2011 10:35 AM (lKYs3)

Dual citizenship.

47 I see Obama has decided to go "grey" for Hu. I don't think the chinese will think this gives him more gravitas.

48 Posted by: KG at January 19, 2011 10:40 AM (DeCj1)

Or, considering the countries involved: Duel Citizenship.

49 My ass hurts.

50 Posted by: dagny at January 19, 2011 10:41 AM (oceiy)

Obama couldn't obtain more gravitas if he suddenly ballooned to the size of Michael Moore.  If there has ever been an American politician who more exemplifies the concept of "All flash, no dash" I don't know who it is.

51 The key? 

McArthur inherited his money and never earned a fucking penny in his life.  It is easy to spend other peoples money, that's why rich heirs mostly turn out liberal.  They think money comes in the mail.

52 I was a union officer for a while. You couldn't have found a better way to turn me against unions.

53

A case in point about com;panies pulling out of towns due to union greed and employees' unawareness is USS pulling out oif Birmingham, Alabama in the 70s.  Employees were paid so much (due to union threats) that the guy who swept out the shop made three times the salary of an accountant.  My father worked for this company as a supervisor and not under the union aegis.  Luckily for him he was ready to retire but this pull out killed the whole western side of Birmingham and property values went down the tube.  People were out of work in droves.

Another example was in the 80s.  A well known meat packing plant asked its employees to take a cut in pay or they would have to close.  The employees said, "hell no".  The plant closed and all the employees were out of jobs.  I met a bunch of them during this time of negotiation and they couldn't be reasoned with.  Total ignorance.  Their whole attitude was the company was rich and wanted to get richer on the backs of their employees. Several hundred jobs lost when they could have been saved.  

 

54 Posted by: Farmer Joe at January 19, 2011 10:43 AM (z4es9)

In your experience, how universal is that feeling?  Just out of curiosity.

55 This is exactly like the Catholic Church, very pro social justice, pro union. Except for their own employees.

56 Harper's?  Good God, they're still around?  Well, just barely, apparently.  I thought they'd long since gone the route of The Daily Worker, The Women's Home Companion, Look, The Reporter, and other liberal journlistic staples of a time gone by.   As a progressive publisher, MacArthur has to know that printing/publishing-related unions invariably insist on destroying their places of employment rather than negotiate even half- reasonable demands.

57 The Revolution always eats its own. Best not to feed the beast.

58 You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!

59 But it goes beyond that, too.  Why aren't there other manufacturing jobs in Fon du Lac?

I like to blame the EPA for the general lack of manufacturing jobs in America. 

Wisconsin has been run by idiots for some time now, we'll see how much the new Assembly and governor can salvage, but I'm not sure they can override the job-killing stuff coming out of Washington.

60 Alternate headline for this:

PWNED!!!

61 Okay, seriously: how can you perceive a world in which those (what, 200 - 300) jobs just disappear is winning?  For anybody?

Because those companies are "evil".

62 For people who talk so much about the "working class," they really hate the one true working class politician on the scene, don't they?

Yes, people of the working class, liberals love you.  Like they love pets.  When they say "beg" you had better assume the position.

Oh, and take a look at who's running your union.  That's right.  Lawyers.  If you think management takes money unfairly from the working man while producing nothing on his own, what do you think a lawyer does?

Your union dues are keeping a lawyer's wife in furs.

63

I have the Family Circle in the Meanie can.  I does like me some recipe pron.  There's something about taking a dump that makes you think about your next meal.   

64 It is always nice to see liberals get what they advocate for the rest of us.

Be nice to see Congress subject to the laws they pass for the rest of us as well.

65 As a progressive publisher, MacArthur has to know that printing/publishing-related unions invariably insist on destroying their places of employment rather than negotiate even half- reasonable demands.

The unions destroyed newspapers in Pittsburgh (and many other cities, the reason why most cities have one -- maybe two -- dailies is because of a single newspaper strike at one point).  The Tribune-Review was actually a non-Pittsburgh paper that started printing a Pittsburgh edition fairly recently.

66 Whoops. Reed called Hu a dictator.

67 65 Just go to the southern living website and their recipe links. They are better tested and just better. Always turn out. My mom keeps bringing me her family circle, redbook, etc. The stupidity level makes my head hurt.

68

Have belonged in total to four different unions. The first, UPGWA, when I took the job was bragging how they had saved a guys job when the company wanted to fire him. The guy had lost his drivers license after his third DUI. Company policy was that all armed officers had to have drivers licenses as they had to perform vehicle patrols. The union and the company came to an agreement that he would work as an unarmed Watchman while on his one year ssuspension of his license, with a written proviso that his next DUI he was out. He was gone less that two months after having his license restored. (And at that he was lucky as he was doing at least some driving, and probably drunk, while on suspension.

 

69 68 So why hasn't Google been unionized?

Posted by: CDR M at January 19, 2011 10:53 AM (5I8G0)

Their petard is further down the list.

Besides, college-educated people don't join unions.  In fact, the only union growth recently has been in very unskilled labor and in the public sector.  People with skills and education run away from unions.

70 Too Big To Fail. That's the business model to pursue. Write some glowing Obama articles- especially regarding stimulus policies, wring your hands about having to lay off some poor union workers ... 3. Profit!

71 The first, UPGWA, when I took the job was bragging how they had saved a guys job when the company wanted to fire him.

Yeah, good for them.  Your union "representation" is spending their time, effort and dues money on creeps like this while hard-working honest guys get screwed.

72 college-educated people don't join unions Boeing engineers have to join unions.

73 Posted by: CDR M at January 19, 2011 10:53 AM (5I8G0)

Because the two founders very ostentatiously set their annual salaries to $1.00 each to prove they're not one of those "evil" Capitalists. 

Oh, and you're not supposed to notice all those other revenue streams... just ignore those.

74

When those chains, Kroeger and National (part of Loblaws, a Canadian chain), pulled out of town, the employees cheered and thought they'd won.

We had a similar situation out here with Ralph's, and I just realized that Ralph's was what Kroger stores were called in the Western USA.

Meanwhile, non-union Winco Foods just keeps growing....

75 69 Whoops. Reed called Hu a dictator. Posted by: dagny at January 19, 2011 10:54 AM (oceiy) He's probably just trying to suck up.

76 Um - that's legal?  You can vote in other countries elections and still vote in US elections?

Many years ago you could not have dual citizenship in the U.S.  They got rid of that first. Then they allowed you to vote in both elections.

Both of those things need to go back the way they were.

77

Yes, but most union members don't think of it that way.  They believe (not sure why, but they do) that the job isn't going anywhere.  It's just that "management" is trying to "outsource" those jobs to make more money.

It never dawns on the union goons how much of the extra cost of labor is taxation and business bashing. Who exported the jobs? THEY DID!

78 You can vote in other countries elections and still vote in US elections?
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 19, 2011 10:35 AM (lKYs3)

Dual citizenship.
Posted by: KG


Actually. looks like it was illegal, but -- you know, the courts....

Note that US law used to mandate loss of US citizenship for voting in a foreign election. However, this provision was struck down by the Supreme Court in Afroyim v. Rusk and was repealed by Congress in 1978.

richw.org


House Republicans, time to pass a new law.

79 And on these union fights that prefer to have a plant close rather than conceded any ground at all and the stupidity of that, it on becomes clear once you realize what the unions are for.

They are not there for the workers, they are there for the unions and their bosses.

We need a national right to work law, or preferably every State enact right to work.

80 BTW - the only decent union was Duran Duran's Union of the Snake.

81 From my understanding of watching 13 Going on 30 about 800 times, the editors of fashion magazines are vain and ruthless, and in one instance could fire a secretary without showing cause.  And freelance photographers live in awesome lofts in the Village. 

82 hey what is the text book definition of noblesse largess?

83 Posted by: Vic at January 19, 2011 11:03 AM (M9Ie6)

I really want to know who, besides unions themselves, thought it would be a good idea to force people to join unions.  That just seems really, really stupid to me.

Also, does anyone have good historical references on the Unionization movement?  I have a nebulous thought (picked up pieces here and there, and they're not in a coherent, unified form, yet) that, despite their press otherwise, unions were never actually necessary and all the "good" they did was to slightly accelerate a trend which was already in progress.

I'd love to know if that's correct, or not, though- and have actual sources to back it up.

84 UAW Local 2110 workplaces   

American Civil Liberties Union
Columbia University
ICCR: Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility
National Council of Churches
New York Civil Liberties Union
Village Voice


Strike.  Please strike....

85 college-educated people don't join unions

Meet the graduate student unions.

86 BTW - the only decent union was Duran Duran's Union of the Snake.

And even that was a big mistake.

87
but why shell out 5-8 bucks for something you can get online for free?



Because reading Harper's isn't the point. Having people SEE you read Harper's is the point. Tough to advertise your enlightened reading habits off of a laptop.

88 54 I was a union officer for a while. You couldn't have found a better way to turn me against unions.

Posted by: Farmer Joe at January 19, 2011 10:43 AM (z4es9)

My Dad. Same thing happened to him.

89 OT
Well...This should settle that controversy (from a drudge headline).

Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

90 Posted by: Have Blue at January 19, 2011 10:55 AM (mV+es)

I had an employee who pissed hot three times. The union was proud to have saved his job all three times. The nagging little problem of a Teamster driving 50,000 pounds of semi while stoned? That wasn't their problem.

91 Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 19, 2011 11:14 AM (4ucxv)

I'd let that slip by, but really: why would someone believe that having a college degree makes you immune to unionization stupidity?

Every teacher I know is part of a Union, -and they're college educated pretty well universally.  I'm pretty sure Lockheed-Martin is unionized (even their engineers), I'm virtually certain that Bell Helicopter is.  Most police forces are unionized, and police officers are routinely college grads.

So, yeah, college educated people do join unions.  Because having a bachelors degree doesn't automatically make you smart enough to realize how bad unions are.

92 Does anyone else remember the youngish former Hawaiian State employee who said the BC was a running joke around the State House?  They can't find it because it doesn't exist.

(From the last thread)

(The Brian Fucks Himself and Doesn't Know it Thread)

93 Posted by: Guy Fawkes at January 19, 2011 11:19 AM (xdHzq)

Direct linky, or should we go via Drudge?

94 It depends how you treat the unions. How could anything you love hurt you?

95 Posted by: iknowtheleft at January 19, 2011 11:11 AM (G/MYk)

You call West dumb only because you don't appreciate rap as a form of intellectual discourse. You probably don't even read The New Yorker!

Hmph.

96 This reminds me of the story of Caligula and the Roman senators.  The senate put up with a lot of shenanigans, including the opening of a brothel in the emperorÂ’s palace to raise much needed funds.  However, they were not pleased when Caligula went after their wives and even less enthused when he pursued their children.  Still, it wasnÂ’t until he directed his concupiscent interests toward them that they conspired to have him killed by the Praetorian Guard.

97 Now we see the violence inherent in the system! You saw him oppressin' me, didn't ya?

98

MacArthur is something of a Luddite, disdaining much modern technology, and it is this aversion to technology that has hurt Harper's in recent years.  Where other periodicals have moved to the web to stay viable, MacArthur has stubbornly kept the Internet at arm's length.

Well, in his defense, that one wrong mouse click back in '02 did vaporize Oklahoma.

99 Abercrombie is either a dumbfuck or part of a conspiracy so arcane that even my paranoia can't grasp it.

100

This Abercrombie guy looks like a Will Ferrell character.  And he's got two ghey names. 

One good thing we can say about unions (I'm sure there are more, but my coffee break is almost over)--the Screen Actors Guild elected Ronald Reagan as their president, which was a stepping stone to governor, which was a stepping stone to President, which was a stepping stone for eternal awesomeness. 

And I'm pretty sure Obama's never been in in a union. 

101 I sort of got chills cause what is next, going after anyone driving a car made by a foreign auto maker?

I owned a Subaru. It was made in the US. Same with my two Toyotas. Generally, only the transmission is made in Japan.

It's not about foreign auto makers, it's about cars made by NON-UNION workers.

If the foreign auto makers were union, there would be no discussion. Trust me on this. I live in the Detroit area and have gotten gently hassled about this very issue.

102

It's not about foreign auto makers, it's about cars made by NON-UNION workers.

In red states.  Who vote overwhelmingly Republican.

Alabama, Tennessee, GEorgia, South Carolina, etc.

103

AmishDude at 74 - Actually it gets much worse. When they went into the first contract negotiation after I started there (I was by that time a supervisor and out of the union) they polled all the membership on what they would like to see in the new contract. Higher wage and a shift differential were by far the two items that most people desired. Now any negotiation is a back and forth. Each side has things they ask for and things they are willing to grant in order to get what they want. When they came back they bragged that, although the raise was just barely the rate of inflation, they had gotten more time off for union officers to conduct union business! In addition they had gotten time off for union officers to attend two national meetings per year instead of just one! Just imagine, they could go to Vegas twice as many times on our dime!

(This was after the previous meeting where when they came back they all told the funny story about the union president and treasurer who were sharing a room. They had each called an agency and hired a "party girl" for the evening their last night in town. They had done this with out consulting each other. However each caught wind of the fact that the other had done so and each decided that rather than spending all his own cash, they would just grab a "discount" sloppy second from the other guys girl. So each called their agency and cancelled. Then spent the evening sitting around expecting to be 'surprised' when their roommates 'date' showed up. Somehow this gang of morons (not the good kind) thought this was a funny and endearing story.)

The things that the membership wanted? Shift differential - well if we got thhat then you guys working the overnights wouldn't benefit because the senior guys would all just take the night posts. So we ended up stuck working third for straight time. The fact that all union officers were day shift was co-incidental.

Even more telling was their refusal to get rid of the boot allowance. The company gave a allowance twice a year to buy boots for work. It was $50 dollars at the time so did not even cover half of the cost of a real good pair but wasn't chump change. You had to present the reciept and the boots to collect, and there were arcane rules about soles, upper material, etc. which were put in effect to prevent guys from using the money for sneakers (which were prohibited on the job). The company had proposed ending the current process and just giving a $70 dollar grant for boots in the pay check and no follow up from them on how it was spent. The union killed the idea because a) it was a company proposal, b) it would save the company on paperwork and admin, and c) (not stated but probably the main reason) they spent an inordinate amount of their time and got a lot of pleasure from trying to stick the company for some idiots new pair of Nikes. In other words they would stab you in the back rather than make things a little easier for the admin folk.

104 My husband works in management at a steel mill. In our house the word "union," when referring to a labor union, is always preceded by the word, "fucking" or "goddamn." He'd get a kick out of this article. Having to deal with the United Steelworkers has turned him from someone totally apathetic about politics into someone almost as conservative as I am.

I don't think the concept of a union is bad, but what they've become and what they represent is clearly a threat to business in America.

They've become The Government II, an entity that has a Executive-like structure, that spends a lot of money, but doesn't produce anything itself. It may represent workers, but the production comes from the company, not the union itself. The union doesn't make anything, doesn't sell anything, yet they wield so much power.

This. They're no longer about safety and fair wages, they're about protecting their own interests at the expense of the company. Now there are some good eggs in the union who recognize that they need to do a good job and that my husband and the other managers aren't there to exploit them. There is one guy who is very well liked by both managers and union members, and competent at what he does. He has been asked to run for union office several times and always flatly refuses. He wants nothing to do with the nest of vipers that is union leadership.

105 Also, does anyone have good historical references on the Unionization movement?

There is a ton of shit out there but you have to sift it. Most of it is written by the unions and pro-labor groups. It also helps to keep in mind that almost all of the groups pushing unions originally were communist.

106 Communists? Didn't the first unions arise during the Progressive Era, before there was a communism?

107

I'm self-emplyeed and I have to fund my own retirement.  I have no lavish pension.  Meanwhile, my tax dollars go to pay for the lavish pensions of union workers.  How is that fair?

I thought leftism was about fairness?  I guess not.

The left are communists - they hate the individual, they hate competiton, they don't trust anyone but the nanny state god-head fascist government run by their corrupt cronnies.

 

108 Communists? Didn't the first unions arise during the Progressive Era, before there was a communism?

Posted by: KG at January 19, 2011 11:38 AM (DeCj1)

Most of the labor union successes came in the 20s and 30s. They won with FDR. The progressive era started in the early 1900s. Communism started in the 1800s.

109 Posted by: KG at January 19, 2011 11:38 AM (DeCj1)

Communism has always existed.  Karl Marx didn't make it up.

Basically, since the beginning of civilization, there have been those who say "A worker is worth his wages" (with the unspoken corollary: "Wages pay for work, not a warm body") and those who believed "Those who have should give to those who have naught."

The difference, after the mid 1800's or so, was that Communism tried to wrap itself in pseudo-capitalistic rhetoric.  A wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will.

110 Hmm, I guess I always thought the term communism arose in the 20th C.

111 Posted by: steevy at January 19, 2011 10:10 AM (N0IBC)

I'm told they "demonstrated" in college so it wouldn't be new to them.  But rumor has it that they will shut down the NYC schools indefinitely.  Guess that will send the new school's chancellor either cowering in the corner or firing them all like Reagan and hiring all new.  would so enjoy seeing that.  Besides there are three times as many teachers with master's degrees out there than the country actually needs, they are going overseas to teach in english schools or to teach english in the schools.  They would gladly take a NYC job, without the promise of tenure or a pension, NYC pays more than any other system.

112 Basically, since the beginning of civilization, there have been those who say "A worker is worth his wages"

"Worth your salt" is a term derived from the old Roman practice of paying wages in salt (the word salary ultimately derives from the Latin for salt). Therefor a lazy or unproductive worker was not "worth his salt".

There has been an eternal struggle between people who believe that a wage is based on the work that is actually done, and people who believe that a wage is paid according to "the prevailing rate" for that kind of job -- regardless of the quality of the actual work in the specific case. This whole thing stemmed from the trade-guilds in the Middle Ages onward -- masons, carpenters, etc. organized to regulate the wages they got paid. An apprentice always made such and such depending on the area and kind of job-site; while a master might make many times that. And businesspeople back then were no happier about it then than they are now, and for the same reasons: it encouraged laxity, wage abuse, and stultified the job market. It also drove up wages to the point that many jobs were simply left un-done because no one could afford the craftsmen to do the work. Thus jobs that might have been filled by lower-wage craftsmen were simply lost completely.

But technology has made the job-market far more fluid and dynamic than it ever has been before. Union workers hate and fear free trade for this very reason: if they're not willing to do the job for the wage offered, then a worker somewhere else (maybe in a different country) will be.

The world doesn't owe you a living. It's amazing to me how many people never do quite figure this out.

113

Posted by: Monty at January 19, 2011 12:06 PM (4Pleu)

At first, the left tried to Bush the meme that Bush was stupid and barely illiterate. But when the info on how much and what he read, some tried to ridicule his selections  (the rest are being stubborn and won't give up the illiteracy narrative) including Salt: A World History, which shows the significance it had on modern history. It showed a one commodity could shape the world. commercially, geoploiticallt, etc.

Hmmm...what do we have now that might be somewhat of a parallel???

The only thing I have ever heard of Ogabe reading since he first started desecrating the Oval Office is The Post-American World, by Fareed Zakaria

114 Anyone have the world's third-smallest violin for MacArthur?

115 The only thing I have ever heard of Ogabe reading since he first started desecrating the Oval Office is The Post-American World, by Fareed Zakaria

Don't forget "his" books and magazines with him on the cover.

He has to be caught up on all the propaganda so that people don't catch him in a lie, after all.

116 Well.....yeah, but.... is the Annual Harper's Unicorn Rodeo and Kumbaya sing along still on? I mean, I have to RSVP pretty soon.

117 What a selfish jerk John McArthur is. Why doesn't he care for his workers? All this talk of the bottom line and "profits" just show that he's an immoral monster.

Obama should raise his income tax rate to 99%. Why should this greedy man prosper while others suffer?

118 "Worth your salt" is a term derived from the old Roman practice of paying wages in salt (the word salary ultimately derives from the Latin for salt). Therefor a lazy or unproductive worker was not "worth his salt".

And "A worker is worth his wages" predates that.  As does "Don't muzzle the ox that treads out your grain."  Lookin' at the Hebrews for those.  Pre-Xerxes, in fact.

There has been an eternal struggle between people who believe that a wage is based on the work that is actually done, and people who believe that a wage is paid according to "the prevailing rate" for that kind of job

That got brought up on the morning show on the talker I listen to this morning.  Somehow they got on the idea of male/female wage disparity.  I don't make phone calls while I'm in the car, if I can help it, but I wanted to call in and explain that employers pay for your value, not for your job. 

Not that I disagree with "equal pay for equal work" but I've never been in a position where that wasn't the rule anyway (and, indeed, have often been paid less than women co-workers with the same responsibilities). 

An employer isn't paying you because your an assistant-super-wonk and all assistant-super-wonks get paid X.  The employer is paying you Y because, as an assistant-super-wonk you, personally, are proving to be worth Y + Z.  When you're worth more than that, your pay goes up (or you leave, either way).  When you are worth less, you tend to get fired.  It's really a fairly straight-forward system.

119 Posted by: Warden at January 19, 2011 12:32 PM (V6HDd)

I'm sorry, but impersonating a Union Shill without a license is a crime punishable by up to 1 month of nothing but "Murphy Brown" re-runs and/or having to argue with 19-year old liberals without using profanity for 60 hours.

120 What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?

121 Posted by: Monty at January 19, 2011 12:44 PM (4Pleu)

Bacon.
Pork Chops.
Barbecue.

122

I'm noticing a definite pattern. Every time liberal thought patterns interface with reality, a conceptual train wreck ensues. One would think this would lead to adjustment of liberal thought patterns. One would be wrong in general, though Obama's actions vis a vis Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo and drone attacks are an exception. 

 

123 Posted by: Meremortal at January 19, 2011 01:03 PM (kEoqQ)

Not really.  President BOHICA never really believed those things he was saying about the GWOT.  You could tell by how quickly he backpedaled when confronted with some of his more stupid statements (on the rare occasions such confrontations occurred).

They really do, however, believe that business owners, investors, and other wealth creators are evil and are stealing from the "working class."

So your examples of exceptions weren't really exceptions: none but the most rabid liberals believed any of the left-side rhetoric about National Defense.  So their cognitive dissonance is without exception.

124

The only thing I have ever heard of Ogabe reading since he first started desecrating the Oval Office is The Post-American World, by Fareed Zakaria

Being photographed carrying a book and reading it are not equivalent.

Just sayin'....

125 I wonder what the chances are that MacArthur will publish an angry denunciation of the same union he so lavishly praised not so long ago.

If he doesn't, give him a little credit, because it's likely he's one of those rare individuals - a leftist with a sense of shame.

126 Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at January 19, 2011 01:09 PM (nD3Pg)

Not a sense of shame, a fear of embarrassment.  The two look a lot alike, but they're really quite different.

He's not ashamed of his prior positions, he's afraid that if he lets anyone know his current thoughts he'll be mocked.

127 You expect morons to have read Harper's or the New Yorker?

128 Say it isn't so! A liberal being mugged by reality! A member of the reality party finding out there is such a thing as actual reality!

Bwhahahahaha.

129

..... It also helps to keep in mind that almost all of the groups pushing unions originally were communist.

And in the 1920's organized crime saw the unions as cash cows and moved in on the action.  Remember Jimmy Hoffa?

130 Kharma can be a real bitch!!

131 I actually have a subscription to Harper's. Someone who knows I am a crossword puzzle fanatic recommended the magazine to me. In true elitist style, it turns out that Harper's does not run a normal crossword puzzle, it is an acrostic puzzle. I fucking hate acrostics. So I did not renew my one-year subscription. Here it is, three years later, and every month Harper's is delivered to my mailbox. I guess if they are going to give the magazine away for free, not being Internet-savvy is the least of their problems. By the way, I always read the magazine, since I will read anything and everything if it is sitting there in front of me. The literary reviews are usually very good.

132 I like my schadenfreude with a size of bacon.

133 What a selfish jerk John McArthur is. Why doesn't he care for his workers? All this talk of the bottom line and "profits" altın çilek - fx15 - leke kremi - yudali - maurers - ozon yağı just show that he's an immoral monster.