1

It's a country of some seven million people and they produce some 2% of the world oil.

There is enough oil money to make every citizen fairly rich.

Let's hope it's spent wisely under the new rebel government. 

 I have my doubts.

2
Yay!

3
The long international nightmare is over!

4
But according to Obama, these "Arab Springs" are bad for our economy.

5 "Days, not weeks."  "No chance of a double-dip" " I'm working 24/7 on jobs." "I won't skirt Congress over immigration."  "I won't skirt Congress over environmental issues."   Yada, yada, yada.....

6
How are those "free and open" elections coming along in Egypt?

7 The Muslim Brotherhood will fill the power vacuum. Just watch.

8 Yep, I did this.

Is there no limit to my wonderfulness?

9
We just helped replace one Kadaffi with Forty-two Kadaffis.

Yeah, that's right. These "rebels" are led by 42 dudes we know very little about.

10 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Especially in this that is true, since we had no business intervening at all.  This was a purely internal (to Libya) matter, and our involvement should have been limited to (at most) selling weapons to the rebels (revolutionaries?  is that what they are, now that they seem to have won?).

Worse, as noted, this is something that, if done properly, would have taken a few weeks to complete.  Instead, we got dithering and stupidity, and the rebels seem to have won in spite of themselves, not because of some grand strategy.

11 Interesting how the author of this post calls for war against Syria, the only nation willing to stand up against the imperial aggression of the Zionist Entity and their capitalist puppet-masters. Don't you find that strange, DrewM.? Or should I say...JewM.?

12 Yeah, that's right. These "rebels" are led by 42 dudes we know very little about. Well, I think they're Muslim.

13 All Hail Nicolas Sarkozy, South Victor.

14 Because I'm sure we'll get a post about something similar:

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 20% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-four percent (44%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -24.

Overall, 44% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the president's performance. Fifty-five percent (55%) at least somewhat disapprove.  

15
Odd that it became so important to France, Obama and the UK to dethrone Kaddafi, ya?

The UK and Obama worked so hard to free the Lockerbie bomber. But then got hell bent on getting rid of Kadaffi. What a farce.

16

Blah, blah, Libya, blah, Mummer Gadfly, blah, blah, oil for Europe.

That's about all anyone needs to know about this whole debacle, right?  Besides the fact that we've spent I don't know how many millions of dollars on a fight in which we have little to no stake. 

You want to make this a legitimate American interest?  Lynch the Lockerbie Bomber.  Just string him right up in the middle of Tripoli.  Because fuck that guy.

17
The cost to us is roughly $1B.

It was close to a billion in June, so I'm just estimating...

18 You want to make this a legitimate American interest?

Seize the oil-fields.

Hey, to the victor go the spoils, right?  Does anyone think this really would have been won without the US military?

19
But the nice thing about Obama's War on Libya?

Nobody died!

Weird, I know. But I heard of no civilian deaths. Did you???

20 Mohomar Kaddafi now that youv'e been overthrown what are you gonna do? 'Well I'm going to Disney World"!

21 "Don't you find that strange, DrewM.? Or should I say...JewM.?" Oh, he dinnit go there!!!

22
Oh heck!  I knew I should have taken Libya in my Fantasy Jihad League.

23 Genital mutilations for everyone !

24
This is just like Cuba 1959.

25 Posted by: Soothsayer at August 22, 2011 11:17 AM (sqkOB)

Only those poor, poor civilians (please ignore the ammunition bandoliers and AK-47s they're carrying.  What, Libyan's don't get 2nd Amendment rights?) that K'daffy "murdered."

26 Posted by: Soothsayer at August 22, 2011 11:18 AM (sqkOB)

I thought we were on the right side (despite losing) in Cuba in '59.
Wouldn't this be more like if we'd provided guns, ammunition, and "advisory staff" to Castro?

27

OT, but I've been AWOL from the blog for a few days.  Has this story been discussed?

SCOAMF Rails Against GOP For Not Passing Trade Agreements That are Sitting on His Desk

Link is to JWF.

Here's a quote from the (paywalled) WSJ piece included in the JWF post:

"If you are surprised to learn this, you are not alone. White House deputy press secretary Josh Earnest only learned the news on Friday during a press conference. Asked why the (Free Trade Agreements with Korea, Panama and Columbia) haven't been sent (to Congress for ratification), he responded, 'We have not sent them over?'"

This entire administration is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure, overseen by the bigget SCOAMF to ever SCOAMF in SCOAMFville.

28
The worst part is that Cynthia McKinney was not still in Tripoli.

29 The next question is, who gets the power next in Libya?  The country is comprised of roughly 140 different tribal group and this country has no democratic traditions or institutions from which to build a supposed "democracy" from wholesale.

Islamists are going to be running Libya within 3 months - bet on it. 

30 I'm happy to see Daffy eat dirt regardless of the circumstances. This all still might end horribly, who knows.

One thing I do like is that it show something about America. Even when we elect a socialist, anti-American traitor as President ... we still end up bombing foreign capitals

Warms my heart.

How many capital cities around the world has Obama bombed now? Baghdad, Kabul, Tripoli. Anybody else? Have we bombed the capitals of Pakistan, Yemen, or Somalia -- or just the countryside?

31 I said it in a previous dead Libya thread but i find it ironic that the chant No Blood For Oil has been absent in the one war where the west went to war precisely for oil. You're welcome France and Britain.

32

Posted by: nevergiveup at August 22, 2011 11:17 AM (i6RpT)

Col Crazy's wardrobe probably rivals that of DW's entire theatrical production department. 

33 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at August 22, 2011 11:20 AM (4df7R)

Okay.  That's teh funneh.

"We have not sent them over?"  Isn't that US Federal Government Executive Branch-ese for "The dog ate my homework?"

34
I thought we were on the right side (despite losing) in Cuba in '59.
Wouldn't this be more like if we'd provided guns, ammunition, and "advisory staff" to Castro?

Yeah, you're right. I'm just ramblin about how the Libyans and us are worse off with the new thug regime.

35 Seize the oil-fields.

Hey, to the victor go the spoils, right?  Does anyone think this really would have been won without the US military?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 22, 2011 11:16 AM (8y9MW)

Well, that, too.  But like the SCOAMF in Chief is ever going to allow such a thing. But he might overlook the odd lynching of vile terrorist "heroes," given his justified approval of offing Bin Laden.

But no.  He's too much of a pussy. 

I hate him.

^{*MWR is still grouchy from lack of caffeine*}

36 Posted by: Soothsayer at August 22, 2011 11:23 AM (sqkOB)

Yeah- who we helped into power.  Just warms the cockles of your heart, doesn't it?  See, we represent the repressed around the world!

Excuse me while I go barf.

Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

37 The Muslim Brotherhood will be in Liyba running these in no time.  They know a power vacuum when they see it.  2 months tops.

38 Libya is going to be a fucking bloodbath. I have yet to see two muzztards that can agree what toilet paper is softest. Every "Peaceful" regime has had a strongman that utilizes secret police, torture and murder as a way to control the populace. You can't make a wolf a dog no matter how much you wish it.

39 I wish people would come off the politics.

Any day a dictator gets overthrown is a good day, not "Meh".

40 What'll be tremendously ironic is that for the next day or two liberal idiots in the media and on university campuses will preen, gloat and beat their chests over this Obama "victory," all the while ignoring Syria (based on Libya how can we justify not intervening there?), Egypt (dude, where's my democracy?), Afghanistan (getting worse not better), Iraq (we still don't have an 'exit strategy'), Iran (to the dungeons for those Americans) and of course the disastrous U.S. economy (getting far worse not better).

41 Can we have the Lockerbee bomber back now? Oh! Really? I didn't know we approved of his mission? We do? Huh? Well, that's very odd. Did whatever deal that was made with Qudaffy still stand? Oh, ok, well I do think that some guy that blew up one of our airliners shouldn't go free. Eric Holder admires him? Friend of Farrakan you say? Like Obama? Oh, well I guess that explains it. Nevermind.

42 Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at August 22, 2011 11:25 AM (ZDUD4)

Sure you can.  It just takes actual discipline and about 4 generations.

Wait.  I think I see a problem.

43 Weird, I know. But I heard of no civilian deaths. Did you??? Because Obama changed the Bush Rules of Engagement. We no longer purposely target orphanges, children's hospitals, recreation centers for the elderly, schools, battered women's shelters and the local headquarters of Big Brothers/Big Sisters.

44 Okay.  That's teh funneh.

"We have not sent them over?"  Isn't that US Federal Government Executive Branch-ese for "The dog ate my homework?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 22, 2011 11:22 AM (8y9MW)

Yes.  Yes it is.  Although in more modern parlance it would probably be, "My hard drive crashed."

I wonder how much it would cost to bribe whoever configures TOTUS to get that person to type the phrase "I am a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure and I approved this message" into the President's "job creation" speech in September? 

45 It is quite possible that in a year we will be pining for the good old days when that eccentric fellow ran Libya rather than the gang of pure crazy evil that will run it then.

46 Col Crazy's wardrobe probably rivals that of DW's entire theatrical production department. Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at August 22, 2011 11:22 AM (9hSKh) He could set up a little tent right in front of Morocco and sell real tacky hats and tee shirts?

47

>>>>I wish people would come off the politics.
Any day a dictator gets overthrown is a good day, not "Meh".

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm happy Col Crazy is displaced, but if we learned anything from Iraq, Afghanistan, or Egypt, it's that what comes next could possibly be worse.

Here is how you'll be able to tell if the new treat Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi. If they execute him, then they're probably going to be good allies. If they celebrate him and treat him well then we're probably in for a testy relationship.

48 39 Libya is going to be a fucking bloodbath. I have yet to see two muzztards that can agree what toilet paper is softest.
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at August 22, 2011 11:25 AM (ZDUD4)

OP, you've never seen two muzzies agree on the softness of toilet paper because they're still arguing about which one of them has the better left hand.

49 U.S. Faces New Mideast Test, as Chaos Casts Doubt on Libya's Future While the rebel-led Transitional National Council is poised to topple Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, the Obama administration will face diplomatic challenges, as there is no clear indication how the country will be run. ???? Yeah i am sure there is real good chance they are gonna be Jeffersonian Democrats. And the NY Mets are poised to win the World Series

50 @42.

I occasionally think about putting together a list of Failures for the SCOAMF on a business card with "Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure" at the bottom.

It might go like this

* 9%+ Unemployment.
* < 1% GDP Growth.
* Double Digit real inflaiton
* Gitmo: Still Open //ed. : this is a problem liberals have with him, so it goes on the list
* Iraq: Still there
* Afghanistan: More violent than Ever

Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

What do y'all think?

51 Hey, this calls for shooting our AKs wildly in the air!

52 "Mission Accomplished"

53

oops half sentence there

You'll be able to tell what kind of ally they will be based on how they treat Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi

 

54 52, I don't think business cards are that big. Maybe a recipe card.

55 Horray!  Most of the major economic powers on the planet take on tiny country with primitive military and after months, billions spent, and thousands dead, barely win!  Future no more certain than before. 

Let the back slapping commence!

56 Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at August 22, 2011 11:31 AM (ZDUD4)

Maybe I'll just put 2 or 3 on each one.

57 58, A collectors set.

58
It is quite possible that in a year we will be pining for the good old days when that eccentric fellow ran Libya rather than the gang of pure crazy evil that will run it then.
Posted by: WalrusRex




see: Iran, Shah of

59
Posted by: Jason

How many times do I have to tell you?

STFU, dunce.

60 Mabye Jason can troll the poptart web site as a toaster strudle.

61 Libya is going to be a fucking bloodbath. I have yet to see two muzztards that can agree what toilet paper is softest.

Every "Peaceful" regime has had a strongman that utilizes secret police, torture and murder as a way to control the populace.

You can't make a wolf a dog no matter how much you wish it. Posted by: Oldsailor's poet

Yup.  After the euphoria wears off they will be spilling each others blood in the streets.  It will never change no matter how much money they have they'll end up killing each other.  Don't worry the Muslim Brotherhood will ride to the rescue.  They will just torture and kill behind closed doors.  You can't change stone age mentality.  Haven't we learned anything?

62

Col Crazy's wardrobe probably rivals that of DW's entire theatrical production department.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at August 22, 2011 11:22 AM (9hSKh)

So he's the Ethel Merman of Libya?

Not as cool as "Lion of the Panjir" or "Protector of Mecca", but it will have to do.

 

63 Yeah I'm a troll. And you dipshits are just as bad as the lefties who said "Meh" when Saddam Hussein was overthrown in 2003.

All because they hated a democratically elected president more than a murderous dictator.

64

Mabye Jason can troll the poptart web site as a toaster strudle.

Oh?  Is he here?

Is he still challenged by logic? 

 

65 Well, we did this for the Brits and the French. This is remuneration to them for something they did for us or will do in the future. In order for them to benefit, the Brits and/or the Frogs will have to install somebody pliant to make sure the oil flows uninterrupted. The only way to do that is to have troops on the ground. Thus, I sense a humanitarian crisis on its way. This crisis will required NATO intervention to ameliorate. Because, you know, it's For the Children (TM). So, ground troops after all. This is just stage one, alas.

66 So he's the Ethel Merman of Libya? Fuck you, I killed in the clubs not on the street.

67 He could set up a little tent right in front of Morocco and sell real tacky hats and tee shirts?

It'd be a brilliant cover identity too!  Except for when he starts inviting models over to his tent and gives them $75 and a copy of the Koran for listening to his "lectures" -those kind of personality quirks will give away his identity pretty fast.

68 Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at August 22, 2011 11:32 AM (ZDUD4)

Maybe I'll actually do that and mail sets to any Moron (or 'ette) who wants some to distribute at random places (I'd probably have to charge for the delivery: I'm not made out of money).

They're not much good here in Texas (preaching to the choir, as it were), but some of the Horde in the North East, or some of the Liberal strongholds.  Maybe it would help there.

69 70, Maybe you can cut a deal with Tops. We can have a gold leaf photo of the Mom jeans, or the umbrella episode.

70 It'd be a brilliant cover identity too! Except for when he starts inviting models over to his tent and gives them $75 and a copy of the Koran for listening to his "lectures" -those kind of personality quirks will give away his identity pretty fast. Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at August 22, 2011 11:36 AM (9hSKh) Yeah that and he would also probably be pissing in Epcot Lake all the time

71

Fuck you, I killed in the clubs not on the street.

Yes honey, you did.

So my dear you think you can get to Broadway!?  Well, let me tell you something. Broadway has no room for people like you. Not the Broadway I know!  My Broadway takes people like you and eats them up and spits them out!!! My Broadway is the Broadway of Merman, and Martin, and Fontaine, and if you think you can build yourself up by knocking other people down... ...GOOD LUCK!!!!

72 I wish people would come off the politics.

Any day a dictator gets overthrown is a good day, not "Meh".

Not examining long-term effects and consequences of things is what led us to the Land of DOOOOM to begin with.  I'm afraid just basking in the moment isn't a luxury we can afford for a while.

That being a while, is the Middle Eastern Dictator Trifecta in effect?

73 46 It is quite possible that in a year we will be pining for the good old days when that eccentric fellow ran Libya rather than the gang of pure crazy evil that will run it then.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 22, 2011 11:27 AM (Hx5uv)

Agreed.  Libya is a shithole, and the Libyan people have been under Gadfly's bootheel for far too long (I have to believe there are at least a handful of decent people in Libya, and they're the ones who get my sympathy).  But Gadfly is a known entity.  When was the last time you heard about a direct terrorist threat out of Libya?  Or threats of nukes and bioterror?   Answer: not recently, because Gadfly didn't want to stir up the wrath of the West ala Iraq and Afghanistan.  Now the situation is completely up in the air. 

A) If Gadfly survives and remains in power, he has no reason to curtail his country's terrorism operations anymore. 

B) If Gadfly survives but is banished from the country and a hardline Islamist government takes his place, led by the al Qaeda forces who make up a good chunk of the rebel forces, then you'll see terrorist activities in that country ramping up again.

C) If Gadfly is killed, and a hardline Islamist government takes his place, refer to option (B) above.

D) If Gadfly is killed or survives and leaves power, and by some miracle a democratic, republican government takes his place, it will immediately be assailed by hardline Islamists who will take over in a bloody coup.  For further fallout, refer to option (B) above.

I would be as happy as anyone to see Gadfly hanging by his ankles in the town square.  But long term, very little good can come out of the Libya situation. 

74 It's all sunshine and unicorn farts now in Libya.  It will be raining puppehs and kittehs!!!  Yeah.

75 Yeah Jason, Iraq and Libya are the same. Simple , illogical comparisons for simple, illogical minds.

76 Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 11:35 AM (EYwgu)

Listen, spooge-for-brains, to what people are actually saying.  The fact is, unlike in Iraq, we didn't actually have any dog in this particular hunt- we wasted our treasure (and, potentially, the lives of our young men and women) in pursuit of something not in our national interests.

Even if you didn't agree with going into Iraq, it's hard to say we didn't have any interest in going there.

Now, on top of that, when we went into Iraq, we had (more-or-less, and it was very flawed) a plan to see that it didn't burst into flames again immediately upon our departure.  There's no such thing here.

So, yes, to America, this is a "meh" outcome.  K'daffy was terrible and it's good that he's gone.  It's not so good that he's gone that it would have been worth even one American life.  Especially in view of the fact that, almost certainly, within 2 - 6 months the Muslim Brotherhood will be in charge of yet another country.

Do we really want to see the Middle East as one big Caliphate?

77 On the upside, we know that Libya gave up nuclear ambitions.

I blame Bush.

78 "Not examining long-term effects and consequences of things is what led us to the Land of DOOOOM to begin with.  I'm afraid just basking in the moment isn't a luxury we can afford for a while."

Yeah it will probably all end in tears, but given Gaddafi's crimes and decades long oppression of a nation, I'll indulge in that luxury anyway.

79
Jason,who is not an astro-turfer, has the uncanny knack of ALWAYS siding with Obama.

On taxes, spending, 'compromise,' Libya, vacations, golfing, etc.

80

Do we really want to see the Middle East as one big Caliphate?

How about one big glass paved parking lot?  Is that an option?

81 On the upside, we know that Libya gave up nuclear ambitions.

That won't last long once the oil spigot is fully open and the money starts flowing once again.  The Italians are already there making sure the oil starts flowing full speed.

82 Posted by: Major T.J. "King" Kong at August 22, 2011 11:43 AM (sbV1u)

That one got my vote about 10 years ago.

With, of course, the exception of Israel.

83 "K'daffy was terrible and it's good that he's gone."

Was that so hard to say?

I may be a "sponge brain" but at least I'm an American. Americans take delight in watching tyrants fall. It's a tradition we have.

84 The picture of Sadam swinging from a rope with his neck bone poking out did more to calm the middle east than all the libtard bullshit combined. Then SCOAMF took over and the whole place is in flames. What does this say about the importance of a strong American President.

85 Jason,who is not an astro-turfer, has the uncanny knack of ALWAYS siding with Obama.

Maybe he's evenhanded Ed Morrissey.

86 A friend of mine ( no I'm not making that up) was in Libya in the early 60's while in the Air Force.  He told me it was a toilet then and it's a toilet now.   Nothing will change, I believe him.

87 OT: from article on election to replace weiner.

But it was there that Dale Weiss, a 64-year-old Democrat, approached the Republican running for Congress in a special election and, without provocation, blasted the president for failing to tame runaway federal spending. “We need to cut Medicaid,” she declared, “but he won’t do that.” She shook her head in disgust. “He is a moron.”

Bwahahaha. Maybe not all the Barry O comments here are socks.

88 "On taxes, spending, 'compromise,' Libya, vacations, golfing, etc."

WTF are you talking about? You are confusing me with someone else genius. I don't give a shit about vacations and golfing but I have not patience for Obama's BS on any of the others.

89 Im not sure why anyone would deem it good on Obama or NATO. We disposed a dictator (that we should have killed decades ago) by backing highly suspect rebels. So who is the new dictator of Libya? Or will it be different now? Are they tossing Powell's "If you break it, you fix it" approach, if so then Obama gets an adda boy from me being I'm of the mind that if a country needs breaking then it sure as Hell doesn't deserve fixing, especially since another tin pot dictator as mentioned previously is sure to take over.Let him fix it.

90
One big caliphate, eh? That's probably not too far off the mark.

I think what we're seeing is the "unionization" of the Middle East.
Sorta like the EU for the ME -- muslim style.

91 Was that so hard to say? I may be a "sponge brain" but at least I'm an American. Americans take delight in watching tyrants fall. It's a tradition we have. Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 11:44 AM (EYwgu) Yeah that kind of 2nd Grade mentality worked out great in Iran and will probably also be peachy keen in Egypt and Libya

92

then Obama gets an adda boy from me being I'm of the mind that if a country needs breaking then it sure as Hell doesn't deserve fixing, especially since another tin pot dictator as mentioned previously is sure to take over.Let him fix it.

That sounds great, right up until the point where you remember where a "broke country" served as the incubator for 9/11.

Then your logic falls apart.

93 OT:  As Iowahawk says, 'One heartbeat away'.....

http://tinyurl.com/435ou6l

94 Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 11:44 AM (EYwgu)

No.  Not a sponge brain.  I wouldn't insult the sponges.

And, quite frankly, no, we don't "take delight in watching tyrants fall."  At least, not until relatively recently in history.  Mostly, we take delight in ensuring the success and benefit of America (historically speaking).  The problem with "tak[ing] delight in watching tyrants fall," is that today's "Revolutionary leader of the People" is tomorrow's tyrant.  And, often, today's toppled tyrant is tomorrow's regret. 

I'll point out that Americans were kind of happy when the Russians overthrew the Czars.  That worked out sooooo well for them, didn't it?

I don't get too caught up in the idea of freeing people from tyrants.  There are more where they came from anyway.  I'm more concerned with promoting America and her interests.

95 Americans delight in watching tyrants fall. Smart Americans are saddened when they know one known and controlled tyrant will be merely replaced with another unknown and thus more dangerous tyrant.

96 I think what we're seeing is the "unionization" of the Middle East. Sorta like the EU for the ME -- muslim style. Posted by: Soothsayer at August 22, 2011 11:46 AM (sqkOB) I think the previous name for this was Ottoman Empire. Or Umayyad Caliphate, if you want to go retro.

97 Americans take delight in watching tyrants fall. It's a tradition we have.

Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 11:44 AM (EYwgu)

So you're in favor of the chinless opthalmologist reaching room temperature asap?

98 nothing is going to change there....islam is involved....the women will be in burqas and the men will be diddling with the little boys and goats.......

99 Of course we're not hearing from the leftists on this occasion that of course Gaddafi was "bad" but he provided "stability" in the region and could be negotiated with.

We don't know about these "rebels" because the State Dept doesn't want us to know. They're just crossing their fingers and hoping that they don't turn the place into Somalia.

Before 11/5/2012,  the south shores of the Mediterranean will be in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

100

Does this mean that NATO is going to arrest that piece of shit, Al-Megrahi, and send him to America to be tried and executed, as should have happened long ago?

If not, then Barky needs to be arrested for aiding and abetting Al-Megrahi.  That's treason.  Plain and simple.

101 Say what you will about the Q-Man, he had good taste in bodyguards.  Those female ninja high kickers were hot.

102

I say we get preemptive on the whole global caliphate business.  The US should just step to the plate and say, "Okay, this is it!  We're the HQ of the new global caliphate.  You're welcome. 

"First order of business: the next idiot who blows himself or someone else up in service to Allah is going straight to Hell.  No questions asked, do not pass go, do not collect 72 virgins.  Comprende, mis amigos?"

103 "The problem with "tak[ing] delight in watching tyrants fall," is that today's "Revolutionary leader of the People" is tomorrow's tyrant."

True...but if Obama (and our current situation) is the historical product of 1776, I guess we shouldn't be celebrating that revolution either.

In history everything ends in tears eventually. One can still celebrate the small victories in the moment.

104

Before 11/5/2012,  the south shores of the Mediterranean will be in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Absolutely.

But don't worry, somehow it will be George Bush's fault.

 

105 103 Say what you will about the Q-Man, he had good taste in bodyguards. Those female ninja high kickers were hot. Posted by: WalrusRex at August 22, 2011 11:50 AM (Hx5uv) I was wondering about them. Maybe Putin will pick up their contracts -- that seems to be his style.

106
Jason is a 'real' patriot. And a 'real' conservative. Jason is here to teach us a thing or two.

107 Was Jason the same dickbag that disparaged the SEALs families a few weeks back? Or was that another liberal asshole with a name starting with "J"?

108 One big caliphate, eh? That's probably not too far off the mark. I think what we're seeing is the "unionization" of the Middle East. Sorta like the EU for the ME -- muslim style. --------------------------------------------------------------- I don't see that happening.Too many kings,princes,dictators and warlords. Not to mention one flavor of Islam is hell bent on destroying the other flavors of Islam and visa vera. It's not your typical Mr. Rogers neighborhood.

109 Who will take over the "rambling dictator speeches" at the U.N. position?

110

Yes.... thanks Presiden Barrak HUSSEIN Obama... you helped out immensely!

OH, and Death to America!

111 103, Well, with those gold MC Hammer threads how could any woman resist.

112 So, does this mean we can nab that "Lockerbie bomber" asshole again or is there some law that would prevent that?

113

Not to mention one flavor of Islam is hell bent on destroying the other flavors of Islam and visa vera.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about them destroying each other. 

It's the collateral damage that's the issue.

114 "I don't get too caught up in the idea of freeing people from tyrants.  There are more where they came from anyway.  I'm more concerned with promoting America and her interests."

Well you could have had a nice job with the CIA back in the 60s...if you were smarter anyway.

Thing is, you're probably not wrong, but if you're going to take that nihilistic view of foreign policy, stop with the moral preening. You've already checked that card at the door.

115
Too many kings, princes, dictators and warlords.

I think the warlords are moving on the princes and kings. And then eventually they will move on each other.

116

Who will take over the "rambling dictator speeches" at the U.N. position?
Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 22, 2011 11:52 AM (iYbLN)

Chavez is in the on deck circle.

117 "Was Jason the same dickbag that disparaged the SEALs families a few weeks back?"

You guys are confusing me with someone else.

118 It's nice that the Q-man is dead. He's got American blood on his hands, and that should be a one-way ticket to hell every time. But it would be even better if we knew who was replacing him. Do the Brits or the Frogs have a replacement in mind? Do they control the rebels? Is there a way to exclude the islamists? Will we have to put in ground troops after all (see my comment above)? There's been a nasty stink of the ad hoc about all of this and it's going to bite us in the ass.

119 114, If our boys don't get the permission find and whack that fuck in this Chaos, it proves that OBL premature death was also bushes fault.

120 With Uncle Muammar out of power who is hit the hardest?  How will the silk fabric makers survive?  He did have a funky sort of eclectic taste in a Karl Lagerfeld kinda way. 

121 111 Who will take over the "rambling dictator speeches" at the U.N. position?

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 22, 2011 11:52 AM (iYbLN)

Chavez?  If he doesn't croak before his next opportunity to be a douchey windbag?

NO.  Check that.  KIM JONG IL. 

122 Would Jason be celebrating the departure of Fulgencio Batista in 1959?  The flight of Chiang Kai-shek in 1949 to Taiwan?  The exile of the Shah of Iran in 1979?

123 Hey, it's not true that there's no strategic interest in Libya.  Europe gets a lot of oil from there.

124

Who will take over the "rambling dictator speeches" at the U.N. position?
Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 22, 2011 11:52 AM (iYbLN)

Chavez is in the on deck circle.

Posted by: Sean Bannion

How did I miss that one????

125 Now you're comparing the American Revolution to Libya? You sound like a 10th grader.

126 Say what you will about the Q-Man, he had good taste in bodyguards.  Those female ninja high kickers were hot.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 22, 2011 11:50 AM (Hx5uv)

I had them all pegged for a muzz "Addicted to Love" video on al-Jizz

127

Hey, it's not true that there's no strategic interest in Libya.  Europe gets a lot of oil from there.

When did the U.S. become Europe?

Did I miss that lesson in 7th grade Geography?

128 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 22, 2011 11:41 AM (8y9MW)

Plus, if ever there was a war for oil, this was it.  Gaddafi had his foot on the neck of Europe for years and with the economy crumbling, Europe could not absorb another shock.  It wasn't as if Gaddafi wasn't always insane.  It's just that his insanity became more dangerous to more than his own people.  The problem was that Europe couldn't do their own dirty work.  They couldn't because they had neglected their military for decades to fund their socialist shit.  Bad timing.  Just when eurosocialism was beginning to make inroads here.  Would be unseemly to have that crap fail worse than it is already failing. 

129 111 Who will take over the "rambling dictator speeches" at the U.N. position?

I think Ahmedinejad has already sorta taken up that role;  either the last time he spoke or the time before, he claimed everyone in the audience was surrounded by some type of halo during his speech.  Or maybe Kim Jong Ill, or his heir apparent. 

130 Jason, if you can't tell the difference between one tyrant displacing another, and the end result of a century-long rot 230+ years after the initial impulse, you might just want to step away from the keyboard, 'cause I really don't see you doing anything other than digging that hole deeper...

131

Tripoli is no longer a Pirates Paradise, no need to send in the Marines, please. Try Somalia.

132
Libya has a relatively modest amount of oil. Its biggest customer is Italy.

133 Oh Fuck! They are tracking Hurricane Irene right to my front door.

134 Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 11:51 AM (EYwgu)

Are you being deliberately obtuse?  You don't see the tiniest difference in 225 years before everything went all out-house (and may, indeed, still be salvageable) and 6 months?  None at all?

Man. I insulted the spooge in my earlier comment.

135 lu that was a jimmy or jimmah.....

136 Did they find him yet?  Was reading all kinds of stuff on twitter that they've lost him and can't find him.  co worker joked, "hmmm, just look for he convoy of trucks carrying libya's gold and that's where he'll be".  We all just looked at him but maybe he's not far off.

137 Jason,who is not an astro-turfer, has the uncanny knack of ALWAYS siding with Obama.  Posted by: Soothsayer

<Doorbell>
Gilda:  Who is it?
Voice at door:  <mumble> Mrs. Robolohahe? 
Gilda:  Who is it?
Voice at door:  Plumber.
Gilda:  Plumber?  I didn't ask for a plumber.  Who is it?
Voice at door: ...Telegram.
Gilda:  Oh, telegram.  Just a moment.
<Gilda opens the door and is eaten by the Landshark>

138 Will be interesting to see if the President, after making sure to pass this one off to NATO, comes back round and spikes the football. For sure, the MBM will be contrasting this to George W Bush, and saying look, nobody got killed from the US and it didn't cost so much and look France was for this. Of course Libya is entirely different, but no matter. And any bad news coming out can surely be blamed on Republicans.

139 122 With Uncle Muammar out of power who is hit the hardest?  How will the silk fabric makers survive?  He did have a funky sort of eclectic taste in a Karl Lagerfeld kinda way. 

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at August 22, 2011 11:55 AM (iYbLN)

I think his portion of the "eccentric crazy" fashion world will be absorbed by Lady Gaga.  Not by her wardrobe, mind you, but actually physically absorbed by Lady Gaga herself.  She survives via a complicated form of osmosis that allows her to absorb sustenance from direct contact with the world around her.  This is why she spends so much time half-naked and looking like an idiot. 

Everyone thinks the infamous "meat dress" was a stunt, but I know better.  It wasn't a stunt.  It was lunch.

140 Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at August 22, 2011 11:57 AM (ZDUD4)

We'll take it in Texas.  Send it this way.

141

Posted by: phoenixgirl at August 22, 2011 11:57 AM (eOXTH)

It was a Jim - I just looked back.

142

Posted by: at August 22, 2011 11:58 AM (k1rwm)

Leaving the "Name" field blank does not mystically make you someone other than "curious"

Unfortunately.

143
Thing is, you're probably not wrong, but if you're going to take that nihilistic view of foreign policy, stop with the moral preening.

Preening? You mean like your excusal/cheering for terrorist attacks against Israel last week on moral equivalency grounds?

75 Attacks on soldiers are not "terrorism", but warfare.

144 #134

That's why the Italians are there right now making sure the oil keeps flowing. They are already in a tight spot and oil shortage in Italy is not something they need to add to their woes.

145
The only mystery remaining is why John McCain and Lindsey Graham took it upon themselves to champion Obama's War on Libya.

146 "Now you're comparing the American Revolution to Libya? You sound like a 10th grader."

No it was a reductio ad absurdum that you're too stupid to understand.

People here are saying that being happy about Gadaffi's ouster is pathetic because the Revolution is probably going to end badly anyway.

Well guess what? ALL revolutions end badly at some point. The US has a worthless leader and is falling apart right now. So according to YOUR logic, we shouldn't celebrate 1776.

My point was to savor the small victories and enjoy bad things happening to bad people. If it all ends in tears it will, nothing can change that. But I'm still going to be happy watching a dictator fall.

It's strange, back in 04 and 05 this was a common attitude on the right. I'm not sure what has changed.

147 141 and 139...the juxtaposition of those two comments...

I am now imagining Lady GaGa as Landshark.  Admittedly, it isn't much of a stretch.

148 "Meh" is too hopeful a word. "Blech" might better describe the uselessness of regime change in bass-ackwards ME countries. "Oh, look Abu! A new guy is holding the AK47...awesome."

149

Who will take over the "rambling dictator speeches" at the U.N. position?

**Ahem**

150

She survives via a complicated form of osmosis that allows her to absorb sustenance from direct contact with the world around her.  This is why she spends so much time half-naked and looking like an idiot. 

Then she should be cloned, and then set loose over at Huff Po and dKos. 

Think of her like an oil absorbent boom.  After she's done absorbing all the idiocy there, she can simply be taken to the incinerator.

151 "Preening? You mean like your excusal/cheering for terrorist attacks against Israel last week on moral equivalency grounds?"

That wasn't me fucktard. I've said that 3 times now.

152 I will enjoy Kaddafi's downfall for a couple of days before worrying what happens next and who will try and grab credit.

153 152

Bwhahahahaha.


MWR

*golf clap*

154
Hey dunce, is the world better off without Saddam Kaddafi?

If yes, how?

155 In reading drudge's headlines this week it looks like that bassher guy thinks he's next up on the menu?

156 Somebody needs to add SCOAMF to the urban dictionary. Whenever I see a word or acronym I don't know, that's the first place I chec.

157 Meanwhile, Syria,

...is not going anywhere as long as it's a sword to dangle over Israel.

158 Would Jason be celebrating the departure of Fulgencio Batista in 1959?  The flight of Chiang Kai-shek in 1949 to Taiwan?  The exile of the Shah of Iran in 1979? Apparently, yes. Because as long as he can point to something that makes him feel good, it's safe to ignore the millions of murdered and enslaved that followed. "Whew! Glad the Shah is gone! Hey, Iranian women were destined to go from wearing miniskirts in the 70s to being beaten with sticks for holding a boy's hand in public, anyway. The important thing is that the nasty dictator is gone. Whew! Glad Tsar Nicholas II is gone..." Dipshit.

159 That sounds great, right up until the point where you remember where a "broke country" served as the incubator for 9/11. Then your logic falls apart. --------------------------------------------------------------- Ok then, lay it on me.50 year NATO effort in Libya? You do realize that a portion of those rebels we're AQ and an even larger portion are AQ cheerleaders. As far as AQ incubation goes, it is going on as we speak and nothing changes that except deftly fired hellfire missiles. The LAST thing we want to do is pad AQ's coffers with our cash in the name of fixing cow dung huts.

160
Is the world better off without Mubarak in power in Egypt?

I don't think the Israelis think so.

161 Oh Fuck! They are tracking Hurricane Irene right to my front door.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at August 22, 2011 11:57 AM (ZDUD4)

The 5 day chart shows hit hitting Charleston square on after it goes up to a Cat 3. .

162 "I will enjoy Kaddafi's downfall for a couple of days before worrying what happens next and who will try and grab credit."

Thank you, that's all I was saying.

Christ you motherfuckers are gloomy and pissed off. Doesn't that get old at a certain point?

163 Listen, if Uncle Muammar is dead I'm thrilled.  If he died a slow tortured death that's an In n Out  Double Double with cheese but if they killed that Lockerbie bomber piece of shit that's equivalent to an In n Out Animal Style burger.

164 "That wasn't me fucktard. I've said that 3 times now." No. You said that you aren't Jim. On weaselly smarm and tone, you and the Jason I linked from last week are the same piece of shit.

165 sean bannion yeah too bad..... co worker=daddy?

166 Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 12:00 PM (EYwgu)

You realize that reductio ad absurdum is considered a "logical fallacy" for a reason, right?

Wait, no, you probably don't.

The whole point of calling something "reductio ad absurdum" is that you can't compare two things of completely different magnitudes. 

So, for your "small victor[y]" there's a general of Athens who once said (paraphrasing), "Many more victories like that, and they shall not need to defeat us."

In 04 & 05, we were pointing out that- in addition to all the other good to come from ousting Sadam, he was, himself, a destabilizing force in the Middle East, who would (fairly routinely) kill civilians by the score.  Ergo: good that he was out of power (and better when he was dead).  But you're also specifically ignoring the fact that our boys and girls were still over there trying to keep a lid on the worst of the violence (and, more-or-less, succeeding).  We have no such break on the violence in Libya.

So, yes, I'll celebrate his ouster, but don't expect me not to temper that with a judicious seasoning of cynicism.

167 Christ you motherfuckers are gloomy and pissed off. Doesn't that get old at a certain point? --------------------------------------------------------------- Your not doing "malaise" right Jason.

168 "Is the world better off without Mubarak in power in Egypt?"

See you guys want to take this meta view of everything. But what that does is minimize the evil of men like Gadaffi and devalue the lives of their victims.

It allows you to look smart and sophisticated, and plays into your political angst, but ultimately its a kind of world weariness. Cynicism breeds fatalism after all.

169 Christ you motherfuckers are gloomy and pissed off. Doesn't that get old at a certain point?

Yeah.
Most of us got tired of it beginning with Che Guevara.

I get the impression you were a glimmer in somebody's eye at the time.

170 Jason,
Wait a couple of days before you get gloomy.  In that part of the world you have minutes before these turn bad.

171 I'm not in Charleston but i'm still in the OHFKNSHIT zone. It's track has been slowly creeping up every day. I can see a shot at Wilmigton.

172

You do realize that a portion of those rebels we're AQ and an even larger portion are AQ cheerleaders.

Yes, and this is exactly my point.  Read in context.

173 "You realize that reductio ad absurdum is considered a "logical fallacy" for a reason, right?"

Um no...actually it's one of the most basic proofs in logic in mathematics. Euclid uses it almost exclusively.

174

See you guys want to take this meta view of everything.

Yes, yes we do.

Oddly because that's exactly the way the world works.

Silly us.

175 jason may i introduce you to Kurious....you two are a match made in hell..... becareful though....if you are a cpa her pals will shove you in a corner and ignore you....and she has one friend who will wonder why you are only a man.....and then there is that whole cat pee thing....

176 Wilmington and Cape Fear are hurricane magnets.

177 Supposedly the Libyan Army "melted" away. Removing their uniforms and blending into society. How are all the black African mercenaries doing that? Don't they kind of stand-out? And not speak Libyan Arabic very well, or at least with a thick accent. If I were black in Libya I'd be doing everything possible to get the hell out. Not a good time to be a construction worker from Chad trying to make a buck in Libya.

178 "So, yes, I'll celebrate his ouster"

Thank you Allan. I knew you had it in you.

179 Heh it wasn't anywhere close to reductio ad absurdum. You must be an Eighth grader.

180 OT:

BarryÂ’s warm vacation welcome.

181

Um no...actually it's one of the most basic proofs in logic in mathematics. Euclid uses it almost exclusively.

Yup.  He's still challenged by logic.

Some things never change.

Hey, Einstein.  Go Google "logical fallcies" and come back and report on what you find.

182
Jason is not a cynic.

For example he thinks that going from cashier at McDonald's to cashier at Burger King is a promotion.

183 It isn't?

184

"Yes, yes we do.

Oddly because that's exactly the way the world works.

Silly us."

Ok great. Well have fun with that then. You would have been the guy pouting in 1945 because now that Hilter is gone the SU is stronger.

185 Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 12:08 PM (EYwgu)

*sigh*

No.  First, "math" is not the same as philosophical logic.  Two different things, even if they use the same terms.  Second, Mathematical Reduction is not "reductio ad absurdum."  There is mathematical proof that (for a very simple example) 1000000000/2000000 is the same as 1000/2.   That's why we reduce (or "simplify") fractions when working with them in math- because the small, easier to understand ones are mathematically the same as the bigger, harder to read ones.

186

OSP and Vic, y'all stay safe if that hurricane reaches you.  That goes for all M&M's in the southeast.  One of the benefits of living up here in NH is that most hurricanes that reach us are really just glorified tropical storms. 

Of course, we get ice storms and blizzards and nor'easters up the yingyang in winter.  But meh.  Trade offs.

PS - Mark Steyn's sitting in for Rush today!  Woo-hoo!

187 For example he thinks that going from cashier at McDonald's to cashier at Burger King is a promotion. Posted by: Soothsayer at August 22, 2011 12:10 PM (sqkOB) But where do I go?

188

Photos of Ghadafi dead should not be released.   And you are all selfish bitches if you disagree with me.  I asked all my friends and they agreed with me too.  New York has spoken so all you silly little rubes must fall in line with us.  I even listened to Glen Beck and he said the same thing so you cannot question me.

189 184 soothsayer well as a former wendy's sandwich maker.....i'd have to agree....

190 Yeah, now that clubber mentions it that's a lot of desert between Libya and Chad. It's not like those mercenaries can just march south.

191

Ok great. Well have fun with that then. You would have been the guy pouting in 1945 because now that Hilter is gone the SU is stronger.

No I wouldn't.

It gave us the space program, the military-indistrial complex and deacdes of full employment.

Oh, and I loved the duck and cover drills when I was a kid.

I'm a glass-hallf-full kinda guy.

192
at Burger King, Jason has new uniform and everything

so by his logic, it's progress

193 188, Thanks, will do. Granny has a mansion in the smokies. We will be out of here quick.

194 Posted by: Jason at August 22, 2011 12:12 PM (EYwgu)

Jason: Were those people (and there were a lot of them) wrong?  Did I miss the part in History where the USSR didn't dominate roughly half the globe and pose a major threat to world peace?  Dang, I knew my text-books were out of date.

Were they the ones who made sure there was actually a TV in every house, then, and really a "chicken in every pot?"

Just because it harshes your mellow to realize the world sucks doesn't make it suck any less.  And you'll be a lot happier in life (real happiness, not "ignorance is bliss" happiness) when you realize that and start planning and acting accordingly.

195

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at August 22, 2011 12:12 PM (8y9MW)

I love it when they try and argue with a mathematician, don't you?

They're so cute at that age!

196

Ok great. Well have fun with that then. You would have been the guy pouting in 1945 because now that Hilter is gone the SU is stronger.

Nice straw man you set up there. 

197 First job was rocking the deep fryer at KFC. The daily grease burns were the best!

198
nothing better than a fresh KFC breast, original recipe

199

First job was rocking the deep fryer at KFC. The daily grease burns were the best!

Mine was working in my parents restaurant.  Gotta love the 600 degree pizza ovens.

I once told my Dad there was such a thing as child labor laws.  His response?

"Good thing they don't apply to family-owned businesses here."

Bastard was right too!

200 Yes, and this is exactly my point. Read in context. --------------------------------------------------------------- I read it in context.I mentioned that we should leave Libya faster than we came and you mentioned that it would be an AQ incubator leading one to believe that we need to stay there and that my logic was flawed in having us leave. I believe my logic is spot on sir. Also, you didn't say it flat out but you implied that by leaving Libya, we would be leaving it in the hands of AQ types that you admit are part of the rebel crowd, hence, we need to fix it. All that would require is loads of ground troops(that aren't there now) and the rebels blessing so we can hang out and kill off their buddies..AKA..Family members. That is a flawed strategy, almost as flawed as entering the battle there in the first place.

201 Nice straw man you set up there.

Hitler === QDaffy.

You don't see that?
Me neither.

202

>>>>PS - Mark Steyn's sitting in for Rush today! Woo-hoo

 

Thanks!. I prefer Steyn to Rush or any other talk show how. He's hilarious and intellegent.

203
This Libya thing is screwing up the astroturfers.

Today was supposed be about concern for Rick Perry and his strippers.

204 Posted by: at August 22, 2011 11:58 AM (k1rwm)

Wow, fascinating story bro! Thanks for sharing!

205 I've been reading reports that many of the fighters who actually took Tripoli weren't even part of the rebel moviement, but renegade islamist fighters.

206 Wait, strippers? I thought Rick Perry was a closet poofter.

207 205Wait a minute, Kdaffy had strippers, Perry had strippers? Using Jasons logic, I can make a connection.

208 Yeah, now that clubber mentions it that's a lot of desert between Libya and Chad. It's not like those mercenaries can just march south. Posted by: joncell

Pansies.

209
Wait, strippers? I thought Rick Perry was a closet poofter.

He's both!

This Ron Paul supporter, a self-proclaimed long time republicanlibertarian, is accusing Rick Perry of all kinds of shit.

210

I read it in context.I mentioned that we should leave Libya faster than we came and you mentioned that it would be an AQ incubator leading one to believe that we need to stay there and that my logic was flawed in having us leave.

There was another option you missed.

Do nothing, let him stay.  He wasn't a threat to us, and he kept a lid on A-Q.

I just thinnk everyone's point is that there are second and third order effects when you start messing around in foreign policy, and JEF didn't even bother to think it through before turning himself into Master and Commander: The Far Side of Insanity.

How many times in the run up to this did you see posts here looking something like:

1 - Start war in Libya

2- ?????

3- Profit!

The point really is, he opened a Pandora's Box.  That's fine (I guess) as long you you have some inkling of what's coming next.  He didn't.

But that's because he's a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

211

No it was a reductio ad absurdum that you're too stupid to understand.

People here are saying that being happy about Gadaffi's ouster is pathetic because the Revolution is probably going to end badly anyway.

Well guess what? ALL revolutions end badly at some point.

God you really are stupid.

Srsly, you're doubling down on that one? Know when to fold 'em son.

Gonna try that one on the building inspector.

"All buildings fall down eventually. Lone and level sands, natch."

You know Gadaffi would have left power eventually on his own. He would have died sooner or later. That could have saved a billion bucks or so.

212 The last time we had a hurricane hit Charleston it was Hugo and it came inland very far. I am over 100 miles from the beach and we had hurricane force winds here.

But we are still early in the season and I think it will change tracks again anyway.

213 Ghadaffi's ouster is pathetic, because it cost a billion dollars to do something that would have happened anyway, eventually, for free.

214 215 entropy yeah, no kidding....maybe we should concentrate on cuba right now......///

215 sock off

216

 It would have been far better, at the OUTSET, to have erased Daffy with our airpower( maybe a week's worth of live fire exercise), then told the Euros who had a stake in Libya "Your welcome" and LEFT.

217

OK, but so much important stuff has been left out, I'm kind of surprised. I think it goes back to the irony that the Right was really for the action - they just didn't like how he did it.

Some of what's missing is the blatant amatuerism. Remember how this whole thing started? When it looked like Mubarek was all but gone in Egypt, Obama "bravely" declared that he "must go". That was fun, so when Quaddafi was in the same spot, he tried a repeat of that (oops!). He had no intention of using the US military to go anything - he expected to stand at the beach before dawn, and "command" the Sun to rise.

His ultimate command to launch a major attack was - according to him, the guy the Left had proclaimed a "Constitutional scholar" - unconstitutional. The whole thing was so loaded with hypocracy, it wasn't funny. It checked off practically everything left that the Left had demonized Bush for, and that Obama - the "anti-Bush" candidate - hadn't done yet. As with the deficit issue, where Obama has outdone Bush something like 4 to 1, this was an unmistakable act of Presidential adventurism, attacking a Muslim country who had not provoked us in the slightest (at least not recently) - for oil (oil for Europe, that is).

Ace, you actually downplayed the leadership aspect, something that left me speechless at the time. The guy called congressional leaders into his office less than an hour before the assault to inform them that it would happen (and then later lied about it, calling that a "consultation"), and then  - having launched a small war - headed off on vacation. He didn't "wait a few days" to inform the public - about an act of war he had ordered in their name - he waited over a week. Contrast that to Reagan, who gave an address pretty much as his attack on Libya went down. But hey - who are we to deserve an explanation about why our country is attacking another country?

His excuse was that if he had not ordered the attack we would look bad, for letting Qaddafi murder countless thousands of Libyans. He tried to make it sound like we would have been repsonsible for 700,000 deaths.

And what nobody ever seemed to get was that he never coupled the action with his "Qaddafi must go" comment. (That was supposed to happen miraculously, because he - as God - had spoken.) Later, this changed, although they never really admitted it.

And this whole thing was under the authority of the UN - Obama literally suborniated the US Govt to the UN in this. Uncomfortable with the US flexing it's muscles in the world, he sought to put our military juggernaut under the command of foreigners, who were ill-equipped to handle a Third-world country at their doorstep.

Does THAT about cover it?

218 Ghadaffi's ouster is pathetic, because it cost a billion dollars to do something that would have happened anyway, eventually, for free. Posted by: Entropy at August 22, 2011 12:25 PM (IsLT6) Or a little planing, one good special forces team with a good sniper, and a real good extraction plan.

219
We have a brutal dictator just 90 miles off our shores.

We didn't need to go halfway across the planet to oust a dictator when Fidel Castro is just a few miles away.

220
I'm sure Jason is in favor of getting rid of Raul and Fidel, too. Right, dunce?

221 Gee Jason I guess we shouldn't worry too much about Libya right now.  It's not as if they are surrounded by unstable, Islamic countries or anything.

http://tinyurl.com/3hjzmvk

222

Thanks!. I prefer Steyn to Rush or any other talk show how. He's hilarious and intellegent.

Posted by: Ben at August 22, 2011 12:18 PM (wuv1c)

 

Hey! what about me? I'm funny, I'm smart and I want respect!

 

223 Sean, for the record I fell staunchly in the "Let the guy stay and fight his own battles" crowd, for the reasons you mentioned. Also, in reading posts here on the run up to the Libya thing, most seemed to be in agreement to stay the Hell out of it from what I remember reading.Many saw this as a low grade civil war that only Libyan's should have fought. But of course your correct, it doesn't really matter what Obama does now in Libya, it will come back to bite us in the ass in some fashion.

224 Posted by: Sean Bannion at August 22, 2011 12:15 PM (sbV1u)

I'm not even a mathematician.  I'm a software developer who happened to pay attention in HS Math classes.

225 221, Yeah, and they got nice beaches, hot women and good cigars.

226

Sean, for the record I fell staunchly in the "Let the guy stay and fight his own battles" crowd, for the reasons you mentioned.

You and I agree then.  That was my point, however "inartfully phrased" it may have been.

Hmmmm, "inartfully phrased" why....that means I might be a Democrat!

I think I need an intervention.

 

227 227 221, Yeah, and they got nice beaches, hot women and good cigars. Posted by: Oldsailor's poet

Can you imagine the beach paradise Cuba could be once again without the Castro brothers?  It would take a while but the ex-pats and $s would flow back into Cuba.  I have pics when my grandparents used to go there on vacation. 

228 A savage dictator removed, all at a minimal cost to the US budget and zero American lives lost. What a fiasco! Unlike that cakewalk that is Iraq, going into its 8th straight smash year and fourth trillion - or is it more than that? It sure seems like Republican administrations know how to wage war so much better than Dems.

229 A savage dictator removed, all at a minimal cost to the US budget and zero American lives lost. What a fiasco!

And a potential Islamic time bomb waiting to happen but hey, it's all good because we have the SCFOAMF as prez.

230 Gaddafi's gone.  Why no Skull?

231

A savage dictator removed, all at a minimal cost to the US budget and zero American lives lost. What a fiasco!

Unlike that cakewalk that is Iraq, going into its 8th straight smash year and fourth trillion - or is it more than that?

It sure seems like Republican administrations know how to wage war so much better than Dems.So your solutions is it costs nothing as long as you ignore all the other problems you created.

Yet another logical fallacy.  I know logic isn't taught in high schools, but eveidently they don't teach it in college anymore either.

So when some jihadist bred in post-Qadafi Libya does another 9/11, can we add the trillion dollar hit to the economy and the infrastructre rebuilding costs to your side of the ledger?

You really cannot possibly be that stupid.

Oh, wait.  You can.

232 JEA, it wasn't a war, it was a military kinetic action, get with the program. Cause, another dictator killing his people to stay in power. Effect, loss of dictator leaves the entire country, more than likely, in radical hands, you know, the ones that the dictator killed of to stay in power. Moral of the story, the enemy of my enemy was killing my enemies up until I killed my enemy killing enemy and left an entire country in the hands of my enemies. Now my enemies can focus on something other than my enemies.

233

I was surprise at some coverage I caught of Fox last night. They were talking to some European reporter, who was calling this a big victory for the key European leaders who had pushed it. That seemed odd, but it was even more odd to hear one of the Fox anchors (whose name escapes me) say something like "But isn't this all really playing out just as Obama had expected?" (Huh?) It was like he was giving credit to Obama for his plan coming to fruition.

Um, first of all, the US military action in this was billed (by Obama) as being humanitarian - as defensive in nature. I don't recall ousting Qaddafi as ever being a stated military goal. Many were left with that impression, after Obama's "he must go" comment, but those were the silly souls who assume that words will be followed up with actions. Granted, a number of military actions later exposed that the real mission was other than what was told to the public, but I guess we're used to being lied to. Second of all, this was supposed to be a lot shorter.

234 NATO tasked the Al-Qaeda terrorists who worked directly for Bin Laden to recruit, train and act as front line field commanders for the "Libyan rebel" army consisting of foreigners. -- "Ex-Mujahedeen Help Lead Libyan Rebels" Wall Street Journal

Pirating 144 tons of gold isn't a meh incentive so far as NATO is concerned.

235 American foreign exchange professors and students who spent years in Tripoli would argue that Gaddafi did not treat Libyans or foreigners like a savage dictator.

236 It sure seems like Republican administrations know how to wage war so much better than Dems.

So you're commited to idea that whichever party we elect, we should still go to war with more 3rd world countries?

Blah blah our warmongers neener neener your warmongers.

Can we possibly get somebody who won't go out of his way looking to start another war for a change?

Seriously that's as good as it gets and your gloating? Obama's imperialism is comparitively cheaper than Bush's? I thought he was suppose to pull out of Afghanistan.

237

Dianne Sawyer and Katie Couric would do no less for Obama

http://tinyurl.com/CouricandSawyer-defend-thron

238 Whoo Hoo!  BHO has installed his first Islamic Socialist govt.

239 Whoo Hoo! BHO has installed his first Islamic Socialist govt. --------------------------------------------------------------- Where, Michigan?

240

They bitched for 6 years about the ability of the feds to get your library records.

They get in power. Do they get rid of the library record search provisions?

No.

They focus like a laser on violating the 4th ammendment rights of toddlers with random invasive frisking.

And they're happy. Good for them. What disingenous hacks.

241 Maybe the right way to look at this new development is like after a patient has had surgery to remove a tumor (flawed and ill-conceived comedy of errors, though that surgery might have been). You have to keep an eye on the patient, and try to make sure they don't die from the effects of the surgery, itself, or from some nasty infection they get from the other patients in the hospital. There's a general sense that the tumor didn't belong there, so it's probably good that it's gone, but you're really not "out of the woods" yet, by any means.

242

Guantanamo bay, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Afghanistan, Iraq..

Yuk it up, left wingers and trolls. Obama just accomplished his regime change, which started with a pre-emptive attack to prevent hypothetical civillian casualites.

That thing about becoming what you hate? How did that go?

243

242  I stand corrected.

/

244 Reagan only took a couple of days to defeat Grenada and FDR took four years to defeat Germany. How's that for an imitation of Leftist Logic.

245 Polynikes, FDR helping to destroy a radical socialist country via a war is quite ironic. The BHO types will endlessly deny that and insist that FDR defeated a powerful right wing nation but that's fine, anyone else with a shred of logic and common sense realizes that Hitler was simply a socialist with brass balls.

246

The BHO types poorly educated will endlessly deny that and insist that FDR defeated a powerful right wing nation...

FIFY

247 I am not enjoying the 2-minute hate being doled out to various relatively inoffensive people for having thoughtcrimes by disagreeing with the pack of usual suspects here.  The vibe is getting weird.

248

I am not enjoying the 2-minute hate being doled out to various relatively inoffensive people for having thoughtcrimes by disagreeing with the pack of usual suspects here.  The vibe is getting weird.

As a christian and a conservative, I'm concerned.

249 Drew: I disagree with your final implication that by knocking off Qadaffi's regime, we wasted time because Assad's still on his bloody throne. The thing is, the region is dominated by the animals in Iran and the Saudi princes. Assad is a huge problem, but bigger than Iran? By your logic, we who cares about Qadaffi's fall when there are other, bigger problems out there. But what about nipping around the edges and further tightening the net around the mullahs and the princes? An incremental change for the better (thought it's probably going to end in yet another monstrous Islamic "republic") is to be sort-of, kind-of welcomed. Until we, the U.S., are prepared to go all in on Iran and sustain the damage it'll cause in order to restore some stability to the region, we'll have to do what we can, wherever we find low-hanging fruit. Saddam Hussein was one such fruit. So is Qadaffi. For the record: I don't think we can sustain a war against Iran. It's most likely nuclear, backed by China and Russia, and any action against them would be blocked or damaged by the UN. further, because we've spent ourselves into the poorhouse (with higher debt and spending than we've seen since WWII), how are we going to afford such a war? We've maneuvered ourselves into such a corner that we can't really do what it takes to take out Iran. Until our debt and deficit are under good control and we have some kind of freedom from Middle East oil dependency, I don't see what we can realistically do. And even if something could be done, Obama wouldn't do it, just out of general principal of weakening America's role in the world.

250 Remember that American Revolution thing?  Sure they kicked out the Brits, but there were 13 different colonial militia's vying for power and they were arguing about what rights belonged to each state and each citizen and to the central government.  Hell, they argued for more than 80 years until they had a big ass war that close to a million people (civilians and soldiers)....

Yep.  This is doomed.....

251 So Obama supports the "Chāy Party" in Libya, but in America?  The Tea Party can suck balls?  Magnificent.

252 Whatdaya think Kadaffy will wear to his surrender?  Or his trial and execution. Fashionistas want to know!

253 @252 - Nature abhors a vacuum.

Much of the Mideast had been Ottoman territory but Turkey backed the wrong horse in WWI so France and Britain chopped it all up after the war and handed the pieces off to various local poobahs. 

The situation shifted around a little over the decades.  The fall of the colonial powers post-WWII and the rise of Soviet and US influence stirred the dictator pot a bit but aside from the creation of Israel the geographic boundaries mostly stayed put.  Under Ataturk and his successors Turkey wanted to be European, they squabbled with Greece but mostly kept their noses out of the sandy bits to the south.

So, here we are. 

The Iranian mullahs have shown a remarkable ability to build a regional power base by keeping their pressure on greater powers just below the threshold of offense.

The Saudi princes have vast economic power but sit a bit uneasily on their throne.

The Arab states, many sketched from the Ottoman remains a century ago, that were beneficiaries of Soviet support through most of the latter half of the 20th century are in turmoil, and there's a dozen juries still out on whether the result will reformist or Islamist.

And now an economically powerful Turkey under Erdogan gets to look around at a weakening Europe, a tiring America, and the specter of spreading Persian influence in the former Ottoman territory. 

254 Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

255 No boots on the ground, please. No standing between the participants in the score settling that will occur, please. These people have not been our friends, they are not our friends now. Give us a call in 6 months, Libya, and we'll talk.

256 @259 - and just remember whose bombs got you where you are: if you sign up to let the Chinese run your oilfields, well, we've got a whole lot more where they came from.

(not that we have the political will to use them, but...)

257 I can promise you that there will not be a drop of oil spilled because of 0bama! Sure there may be some discontent over how the oil will be divided when the rebels take over. But those are small holes that can be to be plugged.

258 Wow this is soo helpful I have been trying to figure this out on my own for a long time now. Hopefully making this change will help encourage discussion on my blog.

259

Give me a break.  NATO uses 7,000 sorties  and can't beat a tinpot dictator.  How much did this cost the US since at least half of the airstrikes were American?

 

What was our vital national interest?  This was a complete cluster fuck.  Worse anyone want to bet that the new government is like that in Tehran and that within a year we will look at the dictator as a voice of sanity and reason?

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