1 At least we could avoid hearing that sickeningly smug Harry Reid go to the microphone and say,  "Dead on arrival,"  again.  That guy makes be spew chunks.

2 It's a sorry sign that 300 Billion is now small potatoes.

3 You mean Mavericky McVain tossed up under the bus? Wow, that's surprising.

4 Reid: House GOP debt plan doomed in Senate

Now we really need to pass Boehner's plan.

5 But what does carville think we should do?

6

Obama's plan is cloward-piven.

7
Remember, McCain is one of the original Reagan foot soldiers.

8 My friends, I'm a tool. What more is there to say?

9 Am I the only one who might be happy with raising the debt ceiling with only attached a repeal of lightbulb ban? .... or defunding Planned Parenthood? .... or nixing Biden's high speed trains? .... or cancelling the Public Broadcasting program? I just want something concrete to hang our hat on. These budget resolutions are so vague and seem to avoid actual, specific programs. I want to see the dems cry when one of their sacred cows gets slaughtered . Plus, I have expect Obama to be so petty as to veto a bill with any of those things cut.

10 Exactly the right strategy, but it fails to articulate WHY it is the right strategy. We need to see Obama's plan because we have an election coming up. The voters are entitled to know where everyone stands on the most important issue of our generation: How do we fix the damage caused by Obama's out of control spending and what is your proposal to fix it? In other words, what is a vote "for" Obama for?

11 Why not pass a simple bill that has zero spending cuts and zero taxes, and only does two things:
1. gives a clean raise in the debt limit to kick it a few months - like 3 to 6; and
2. has some mandatory BBA vote requirement

12 "Show us your plan, chief" feels like a good strategy but probably not appropriate since Congress is the lawmaker and the President is the signature or veto. http://metanoodle.blogspot.com/2011/07/boehner-tells-obama-congress-writes.html

13 No, keep presenting the plan that dealt with the problem: CCB (sp?). Every single day. Here you go, Mr. President. This deals with the calamity you both predicted and created. The other plans make your calamity greater.

14 It is completely possible to pass a small (say, $300 billion) debt limit increase that kicks in immediately while making the rest contingent on passing the BBA out of the Congress in, say, two months time.

No, it's not.  The initial $300 billion would be seen as a capitulation by the True Conservatives among us, and John Boehner would be compared to Pontius Pilate, Benedict Arnold, and Judas Iscariot for selling our party out to the Ruling Class.

Don't you understand?  They're the Veruca Salts of our party.  They want everything, and they want it right now, or they'll throw a tantrum.

15
I wouldn't say "Give us your plan."

I'd say "Give us your plan, you lying, lazy ass."

16 i only have one thing to say to John McCain.....Fuck You

17 It doesn't matter. None of this matters.

Most Americans probably don't even know that the Dems in the Senate failed pass a budget for three straight years.

Why would this be any different? Answer: It wouldn't.

18 http://tinyurl.com/2wws3r

and the trailer for the upcoming Battleship movie (based on the boardgame) looks fucking hilarious and not in a good way

19 The “compromising with ourselves” line is astute; the Republicans are looking a lot like a coworker of mine who has problems with management asking for ridiculous/incompetent things. She’s been through enough arguments with them that, instead of presenting competent solutions and letting her boss respond with an incompetent solution, she will pre-compromise, which essentially lets management off the hook. I have the same boss, but I try to always provide (in writing) what I hope is a competent solution or project plan. More often than not, when forced to make a choice, they’ll complain but choose the right plan. And when they don’t, the compromise between the right plan and the wrong plan is better than just choosing the wrong plan. My coworker wouldn’t use the word, but she values collegiality up front, while in the background she rants against all of the stupid things she’s asked to do—probably a good 50% of which, she brought to the table because she expected that’s what they’d ask for anyway. She ends up compromising between incompetence and gross incompentence, and so has a lot more to complain about.

20

"I want you to know I made a sincere effort to work with the president to identify a path forward that would implement the principles of Cut, Cap, & Balance in a manner that could secure bipartisan support and be signed into law. I gave it my all.

Unfortunately, the president would not take yes for an answer."

-- Speaker Boehner, the other night

21 Why should anyone listen to Rush? Has his net worth increased by 3,669%? Ok then you people/peons need to shut up. It costs a lot of money to keep you bastards unemployed.

22

Oh dear Lord.

Totally OT but I just need a second to vent.

Have you ever been so mad that you can't be mad while sitting? So mad that you can only manage it while standing up? And spinning in place?

It's been one of those days.

See ya on the ONT.

23 Lightbulbs switching on here at the HQ. Many of the moron heard have been calling on Boehner for days not to stop bidding against himself.  House passed CCB. Over to you, Barky.

24 @I just want something concrete to hang our hat on.

Me, too.

25 phoenixgirl I really like the way you think.

26 They're the Veruca Salts of our party.

$6T of debt ago, you may have had a point.

Now you're just a fucking moron who doesn't understand that things are actually really different this time.

If you don't see a debt-to-GDP ratio of 1.0 as an existential threat to this Republic then there's simply no point to arguing with you. Just continue to play into Barky's Cloward-Piven play and have a totally awesome day.

27 Posted by: As If... at July 27, 2011 03:22 PM

Man, sorry to hear that.  Hang in there.

28

Can I just say FUCK JOHN MCCAIN with a dirty bamboo pole?!

I renounce myself.

29 We all know Odumdum's plan, but he can't put it into action until there is a collapse or at least a mysterious fire.

And while I'm quite sure his celebrated intellectual abilities are just urban legend, he's definitely not stupid enough to commit that plan to pen and paper.

30

You need to listen to Rush more often and ride the bicycle less Ace.

Also Rush pointed out that if you just FROZE gummit spending, that would be a $9 trillion cut.  So everything we are talking about is a cut from a growing amount of spending.

31 A week after Boehner told Obama that Congress writes the laws and he decides whether or not to sign them probably is the wrong time to ask for him to present a plan.

32 So McVain is rehearsing his TARP surrender?  Shocka

33 Obama's plan is cloward-piven.

This.  Even if he doesn't get a second term, he's fine with that, as he said, if he can bring his 'social justice.'

Well, if he gets us downgraded, we're looking at big increases in servicing the debt we already have.  The system that's already broken will just get that much worse.  He'll have his community-organized revolution when the system breaks its own back.

That's Cloward-Piven in a nutshell.

34 _{Remember, McCain is one of the original Reagan foot soldiers.}

I don't care if he is St. Peter reincarnated. He's a senile old dangerous fucktard Democrat now.

35 ...have been calling on Boehner for days not to stop bidding against himself. Posted by: glowing blue meat at July 27, 2011 03:22 PM (K/USr) That's a nicely turned phrase. And he should keep his voice down in the huddle, too!

36
So according to the WSJ, if the Tea Party is the Hobbits, what's McMaverick's Middle Earth alter ego? Saruman seems most likely, the old turncoat who stabs his former allies in the back out of jealousy and spite.

37 Lol.  Anyone with half a brain always knew we would not default on August 3rd.  Our current debt service payment is only 10% of our positive monthly cash flow from current taxes.

From the start the entire premise was a lie.  Now they flippantly admit it after it has had its desired effect.  As liberals love to say, "It's not the lie, it's the seriousness of the allegation..."

38 38
So according to the WSJ, if the Tea Party is the Hobbits, what's McMaverick's Middle Earth alter ego? Saruman seems most likely, the old turncoat who stabs his former allies in the back out of jealousy and spite.

Hotair suggests he's the Mouth Of Sauron.

39 This tea partier voted for that feckless gasbag motherfucker. Fuck him and his vapid attention whore slag daughter.  Fuck them both.

40
David Wu who is still in Congress: non-story

RSC kerfuffle: big news

41 "We tired to save the President from his reckless spending binge over the last several years by passing Cut, Cap, and Balance, but President Obama wouldn't take "yes" for an answer. Everything we have tried to do as been met with a veto threat from the President. We've done all we can. We would welcome a plan from the President if he actually has one and pledge to give it serious consideration. However, to date, while the President doesn't seem to approve of anything we do, he has yet to provide a written plan to solve the problems he and his party have, in large part, created."

42 what's McMaverick's Middle Earth alter ego? Isn't he Bilbo Baggins? Also corrupted by the Ring, but not always insane.

43 Posted by: DocJ at July 27, 2011 03:23 PM

Who's the idiot around here?  John Boehner could have gotten CCB passed and you'd have called him a traitor for not getting the BBA itself passed.

He could have gotten the BBA at 20.5% and you'd have shat all over him for not getting it at 18%.  People like you will never be satisfied.

Moron.

44 Market on life support.  Probably terminal.

45 Harry's dong tastes like poo.

46 Serious Cat at July 27, 2011 03:16 PM (LojAb)

This.  What I fear will happen is that after much thunder and lightning we will be presented with a bill with pretend "cuts" that are not cuts at all.  We need to be turning out the lights and handing out pink slips in some federal sinecures.

47

I think I'm totally satisfied with a total cut of 50 dollars this year.

You have GOT to start somewhere, and this is a HUGE cut.

Big cut, we're talking MASSIVE MONSTORUS CUTTING that will leave women and people of color hurting like one of Mike Vick's dogs.

We just have to do it though!

48 So according to the WSJ, if the Tea Party is the Hobbits, what's McMaverick's Middle Earth alter ego? Saruman seems most likely, the old turncoat who stabs his former allies in the back out of jealousy and spite.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 27, 2011 03:26 PM (71Fka)

 

Wormtongue.

49 What if we shut down the whole shitting match. Attach a rider to it that all laws and court decisions made in the last 100 years are rendered null and void. Convene a constitutional convention to begin sept first. Biggest immediate problems are social security and funding the military. Let most of the rest of it burn.

50
I'm so conflicted on this issue I'm spinning like a dreidel on Chanukah.

51 Another own goal by Johnny Goodgovernment. Who could've seen it coming?

52 "We tried to save the President from his reckless spending binge, etc., etc." Posted by: Dave at July 27, 2011 03:28 PM (Xm1aB) Is that a real quote? If it is, then quit talking right there.

53 Politico didn't include this but Jim Jordan says he did not authorize those emails. It was a junior staffer:

RSC Communications Director Brian Straessle also apologized in a statement, saying, "This action was clearly inappropriate and was not authorized by the Chairman or any other members of the staff. This has never been — and never will be — the way we do business at the RSC." 

54 Personally, if I was in charge I would announce come August 2nd all budget items for the White House and Congress would cease to exist. No more expensive beef, no more parties, no more free golf, no more free health care, no more anything, including paychecks. After all we have a "monetary crises" on our hands.  Then I would inform various departments that whatever money they have is all they are getting for the rest of the fiscal year because we are avoiding a default.  The last departments to not get funded would be those mentioned in the constitution as being federal responsibilities.

I probably couldn't legally do this but that never stopped obama from doing it.

55 Most Americans probably don't even know that the Dems in the Senate failed pass a budget for three straight years. Why would this be any different? Answer: It wouldn't. Yeah. Debt ceiling? Even our side says It Is Inevitable We Raise It Or Doom Ensues. So eliminate the freaking thing. We can never say no to more debt, apparently. Eliminate the debt ceiling requirement. Or raise it to 50 trillion. Whatever. What, are Pubbies going to give Dick just enough fresh borrowing to reach October 2012, and then what? Will it suddenly become reasonable to refuse further authorization of debt? Please. People are playing Parcheesi while the palace mortar dissolves.

56

I think I've switched position from "don't move the debt-ceiling" to whatever.

Everyone says a deal is needed, credit downgrade is horrible and the debt ceiling needs to be raised.

Fine raise it. Democrats terms.

In reality, they're not going to cut, if they do it's ONLY ANOTHER $100 Billion on top of another $2.5 Trillion stash. Just let them have whatever they want. Give the Dems and Obama full credit for the economy.

We can do all the magical fixing after 2012 after winning over the independents with our willingness to compromise and our cheery dispositions.

Big reason though: This would also give us Armageddon types more time to prepare. I'm sure many of you are armed, stocked and ready and I'm happy for you. Many of us could use a bit more time though. I still believe a collapse is coming too (or a long raping of the productive) but the world needs the US and will engage in magical thinking for a few years longer while preparations are made.

Give the play friendly crowd the time they want, feel they need, etc. Give the Dems everything they want so they get eventual credit for the miracles they seek.

Besides, Monty had a link to some great long term food meals that I'd love to get my hands on before zombie apocalypse.

 

57

"FROZE gummit spending, that would be a $9 trillion cut"

and only $1.7 trillion additional debt per yr under the economy turns around.

58 I have no words for McCain. He is the reason this communist is in office.

59 There in only one way to solve this mess. Conservative landslide win in 2012. That's it, and that's what we've got to work for.

60

Soylent Green isÂ…

WeÂ’re close.

61 If I be not getting my check from the Govurnment on 3 August the Republicon Party will pay dearly. The Persons of Color population will not be voting for you. Wise up and help us people whom cannot find a job because of Bush Screwing everything up..

62

Who's the idiot around here?  John Boehner could have gotten CCB passed and you'd have called him a traitor for not getting the BBA itself passed.

He could have gotten the BBA at 20.5% and you'd have shat all over him for not getting it at 18%.  People like you will never be satisfied.

Moron.

-----------

Anymore straw-men?

What we have is Boehner getting 1 billion in cuts. Somehow, our anger over that = us being totally crazy and unable to be satisfied.

63 August 2nd was an arbitrary date to generate a crisis. The willing dupes in the media are carrying the torch.

64 There in only one way to solve this mess. Conservative landslide win in 2012. That's it, and that's what we've got to work for. Posted by: Dave at July 27, 2011 03:34 PM (Xm1aB) We have a plan that will move us towards conservatism in ten years, if you'll just keep us in office.

65 McCain has been living off of his daddy and granddaddy's reps, crashing jets, and declining a certain Christmas invitation (not to mention his rich wife), for decades.

Time for that credit card to be cut up.

66 Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 27, 2011 03:21 PM (QF8uk)

Yes, but does she have a nice rack?

67 Come Jan. 2013, I expect McConnell and Boehner voted out of leadership positions. First thing on the docket: Repeal Obama's proudest achievement, Obamacare. Next, entitlement reform once and for all. Next, slash non-military spending by, in part, eliminating whole government agencies starting with the Dept. of Education and then the Dept. of Energy. Dream or fantasy?

68 "There must be some kinda way outta here,"
Said the joker to the thief...

69

My only concern is the timing: Two weeks ago this is brilliant. But now? I'm not sure there's time for this.

Recess the House.  The Senate has a choice:  BBC, or cut up the credit cards.

70 John McCain, meanwhile, signaled his capitulation in the fight, saying a debt ceiling increase was inevitable (which it is, but there's no point folding early),...

I hope you like him, Arizona, because you people voted to send him back.

Any Arizonians that didn't vote for the putz, well, I feel bad for you.

71 No plan is looking better and better. Adopting a no-plan option may give McCain a stroke. Winning.

72 Just wondering, but if raising the debt ceiling is inevitable before August 2nd, then why in the world should the Dems give in a single inch? I mean, if our own side says we HAVE to raise it, then why shouldn't the Dems just say "Fine, then pass a clean bill?" You see, when you take the stance that you simply cannot actually go to the brink, then you have no leverage at all. In which case, why exactly were we fighting over this?

73 Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011 03:35 PM

We took control of the House.  We didn't get elected king.  You go to war with the army you have, not the imaginary army you wish you had.

Reid's in control, so CCB and the BBA will never get voted on.  Obama's taking (and getting) a pass on presenting any plan.  Reid's plan utterly castrates the military.  So, Boehner's plan's all we have.  It's either that or nothing.

If it's nothing, the country goes in the shitter and we get blamed for it.  Tell me again, what is precisely our plan if not Boehner?

74 CCB not BBC

75 We should play it like demoncrats. Agree to anything that sounds good, and then in Jan. 2013, when President Perry is sworn in and Reid becomes minority leader, we just forget everything we agreed to and pretend it never happened, proceeding to slash the crap out of spending.

76

Posted by: Hadd Charper at July 27, 2011 03:19 PM (0F3ej)

 

Is this that asshole average joe? If it is, things are bad enough without his pissant games.

77

Posted by: Hadd Charper at July 27, 2011 03:28 PM (0F3ej)

The idiots here are the people who think relying upon a plan that uses make-believe money is 'realistic'.

78 Dream or fantasy? Fantasy. You'd need all freshman citizen-legislators for that to happen. Not people who've spent their whole adult lives in their local, state, or national Beltway.

79 That Mo-Fo BUSH should have raised the DEBT LIMIT before he left office..........

80

Do we get Top Gear with it?

Posted by: Senate at July 27, 2011 03:39 PM (Zs83Q) 

I just want James May, Jeremy Clarkson and a tub of jellied eel

81 Deem and pass the balanced budget amendment!

Yeah, I know, stupid.  But par for the course.

82 @76 Intelligent questions are not encouraged here.

83 My new plan is XCV: Cut-Copy-Paste.

84

If it's nothing, the country goes in the shitter and we get blamed for it.  Tell me again, what is precisely our plan if not Boehner?

We're going to get blamed no matter what.  Take away the democrats' candy.  They win elections using taxpayer money to perpetrate fraud.  Show the productive class that they don't need government. 

This is not a political choice; it's a necessity.  There is no more money.

85 I'm taking my 17 year old to his first concert tonight. We're gonna rock to Foreigner and Journey and I ain't gonna give shit about the mess this country is in.....until tomorrow morning.

86

Do we get Top Gear with it?

Posted by: Senate at July 27, 2011 03:39 PM (Zs83Q)

---

Yeah, but you get the shitty American version, not the real thing.

87 Who cares what McCain says? Like him saying anything deserves a headline or changes any outcome. Even his own conference ignores him.

88 Just wondering, but if raising the debt ceiling is inevitable before August 2nd, then why in the world should the Dems give in a single inch? I mean, if our own side says we HAVE to raise it, then why shouldn't the Dems just say "Fine, then pass a clean bill?" You see, when you take the stance that you simply cannot actually go to the brink, then you have no leverage at all. In which case, why exactly were we fighting over this?

Posted by: Rich

Thank you. And notice that once again, the itty bitty problem of the looming credit downgrades (yes it's plural) is NOT addressed. It's onveniently ignored by both sides. Except if we allow an increase, with or without Boehner's plan, we're the target du jour when that bomb drops.

 

Think Italy's August bond sale. The one they decided not to have.

89 Don't cave GOP, you cannot do the same thing over and over again and say next time when we have this or that and expect something different. You will never get another result unless you just stop the SPENDING!

90

We took control of the House.  We didn't get elected king.  You go to war with the army you have, not the imaginary army you wish you had.

Reid's in control, so CCB and the BBA will never get voted on.  Obama's taking (and getting) a pass on presenting any plan.  Reid's plan utterly castrates the military.  So, Boehner's plan's all we have.  It's either that or nothing.

If it's nothing, the country goes in the shitter and we get blamed for it.  Tell me again, what is precisely our plan if not Boehner?

-------

You're right there with Gabe making the same, defunct arguments.

Your concern about the CCB and BBA not getting passed should be shared with the Boehner plan. Reid said DOA, Obama said veto. So why exactly is it any more viable of an option to get passed when they other side has said hell no? Every single person who tells me CCB is totally dead but Boehner's plan has a chance is completely wish-casting.

Now, for the fifty-billionth time, the credit-rating is getting downgraded even if Boehner's plan passes. Therefore, it isn't a whole hell of a lot different than not passing it as far as the economy is concerned.

91 I don't know what you guys are complaining about. We've shifted the deck chairs so that they all face the port side, so you don't even have to look a that nasty iceberg anymore. Seriously, what more do you people want?

92 My concept of a logical legislative process is that the House passes a bill and sends it to the Senate.   It is either passed in the Senate, rejected outright, or amended and returned to the House.  This iterative dance continues until a compromise bill is passed by both the House and Senate.  The compromise bill is then passed to the President for signature or rejection.  The Senate's rejected outright option should be reserved for truly trivial bills, not for existential threats to the nation such as an unsustainable budget and debt.

In the case at hand, we have obfuscating Representatives writing legislation even they don't understand (surprise) and crapweasel R & D Senators (effectively voting present) more concerned with maintaining their perks than getting the country on a rational fiscal track.  Better yet, the entire financial scoring basis is layered with fraud, deceit, and a lack of accountability for actual budget items just to make it difficult to pin any tangible expenditure on either a  specific member of Congress or a political party.

Sounds like we need immediate high speed rail legislation that everyone can agree on so that we can get to DOOM faster.

The one precept that has been reaffirmed to me in this debacle is that it is a truism that a politician is lying if his lips are moving.

93 @20

Your analogy would fit better if your coworker were a falsely titled undercover manager whose real daily task is to chip away at workers' will to make the company do "competent" things they don't want to do (because they're really a money-laundering front that's trying to look uninteresting), and her goal is to make you all quit.

94

Wormtongue.

Huh?... wha?... something I can do for you wingnut?

95

Posted by: Rich

 

hey Rich, I think that it may be the attention whore average joe. I'm not sure yet.

96 If it's nothing, the country goes in the shitter and we get blamed for it.  Tell me again, what is precisely our plan if not Boehner?

Posted by: Hadd Charper at July 27, 2011 03:39 PM (0F3ej)

And Reid said he's shooting down Boehner's plan.  So now what do you do?

(hint:  Reid is pushing for Boehner's unconditional surrender, and he very likely might get it).

97 "As you know, we are plunging into the sea from 30,000 feet as our engines are engulfed in flames. Quit yer' bitching, we dropped the oxygen masks for you ingrates!"

98 forget everything we agreed to and pretend it never happened, proceeding to slash the crap out of spending.

Posted by: bigred at July 27, 2011 03:39 PM (weBtw)

And you think any establishment survivor (and there will be re-elected R's and D's) will go along with that?

99
Uzani, his army... with fists open...

100

I have two questions for those who are saying to support the Boehner plan:

1. If it fails in the Senate or is vetoed by the President, then what?

2. If it passes and the credit agencies go ahead and downgrade our credit after we passed "our" plan, then what?

You guys seem to be worried about two things: getting something that passes and deflecting blame. I'm here to tell you the Boehner plan won't manage both of those things and will have the added bonus of not actually doing a fucking meaningful thing.

101
Obama: "Come get your Boner plan candy, little girl"

102 Actually I mean I look dead on arrival.

103 No wonder Trump said the GOP has no idea how to negotiate.

104 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 27, 2011 03:46 PM

If Boehner's plan passes the House, our responsibility in this debate ends at that very moment.  We shut up and offer nothing else.  Which means Dingy can either pass Boehner, which he hates, or CCB, which he really hates.

Either way, we scrape some semblance of victory out of this excrement sandwich.

105 @107 Rich, Fucking stop it! You're making my head hurt with all that common sense shit!

106 Obama keeps telling us and the banks that we won't default.  Tell me why we believe this promise. 

All his promises come with an expiration date.  All of them.

107

2. If it passes and the credit agencies go ahead and downgrade our credit after we passed "our" plan, then what?

This is the only question worth asking at this point.  If it won't do that (which is what any plan is supposed to do in this situation), then there's no point to the debate.

108 You guys seem to be worried about two things: getting something that passes and deflecting blame. I'm here to tell you the Boehner plan won't manage both of those things and will have the added bonus of not actually doing a fucking meaningful thing.

I'm here to tell you that both plans suck, so why not stick the Dems with Reid's plan?

109 Its a little late for this. Didn't Boehner say to the President something like: 'It's our job to write bills and you can sign them or not'? He can't go back now and say 'OK you write the bills'.

It seems like Boehner is asking a lot from the freshman Tea Party Reps.
The Special Commission in his bill seems like its designed specifically to take these same troublesome fellows out of the loop in the future and he expects them to vote to disenfranchise themselves and by extension their constituents.
Maybe I don't understand the Special Commission, but I think that part is worse than the numbers being proposed.

110

#53, awesome.

111 "As you know, we are plunging into the sea from 30,000 feet as our engines are engulfed in flames. ..." Posted by: Capt. Republican at July 27, 2011 03:46 PM (Xm1aB) The good news is, we're about to put the flames out!

112 @99. Damn. YouÂ’re right.

113

So the RINO Repubs want the conservative voices FIRED?

Imagine that, these cockroaches are no better than the dictator Demrats, but we always knew that. Dems wrapped in Republican hides only.

McCain? Wouldn't piss on that pandering, old, unconstitutional fool, if he were on fire.

RINO herd hates it that the light gets shined on their backroom, dark of night, behind closed doors rippoffs of We The People.

Saarh is gonna kick some serious ass. This is gonna be fun. 

114

I'm here to tell you that both plans suck, so why not stick the Dems with Reid's plan?

------

Yea, and I get this idea, but I'm going to use a line Ace used a while back and say it's to cute by a half. Most people won't get the point of it, and I'm think the Rs would face a serious backlash from the base (and probably rightfully so) for voting for Reid's plan.

115 Obama keeps telling us and the banks that we won't default.  Tell me why we believe this promise. 

All his promises come with an expiration date.  All of them.

Posted by: VKI

He keeps telling us that he'll veto Boehner's plan. Why do we believe that?

He keeps telling us he'll deliberately fuck over the military ans SS recipients first. Why do we believe that?

116 If Boehner's plan passes the House, our responsibility in this debate ends at that very moment.  We shut up and offer nothing else.

Posted by: Hadd Charper at July 27, 2011 03:49 PM (0F3ej)

Why couldn't we do that after CCB?  What's the advantage of Boehner's idiotic unserious plan being the last place for negotiations?

117 When do I get to talk again?

118 >>I'm here to tell you the Boehner plan won't manage both of those things and will have the added bonus of not actually doing a fucking meaningful thing. I don't expect it to pass. I do expect it to provide some level of coverage for the inevitable fall out. It may be a small amount but it will surely be more in the eyes of the mostly disinterested and largely uniformed public. Barry and the Dems are sure to go on a pr offensive to shift all the blame to the Republicans, it would be nice to have something to fight back with. So the opposite question, for those of you advocating doing nothing, how is that going to be a winning pr strategy after the fact?

119 short term increase + short term deficit reduction. This holding Barry Mc3Putt's feet to the fire is fun.

_{copied from wrong thread}

120

check out the side bar.

Just put some new stuff up.

Mike Pence is saying back the Boehner plan. The fix is in. All the non freshman republicans seem to be behind the Boehner plan, so regardless of how much it sucks it looks like that's what we're going to end up with.

John McCain tears into the Republicans on the Senate floor. Fuck him.

Chris Christie tells Obama to release his plan.

121 I'm think the Rs would face a serious backlash from the base (and probably rightfully so) for voting for Reid's plan.

What's the result of this? That we get more conservative Congressmen?

122 113 Obama keeps telling us and the banks that we won't default.  Tell me why we believe this promise. 

All his promises come with an expiration date.  All of them.


In my opinion, if the only thing Obama cares about is destruction, then we shouldn't. He cannot be trusted to the right thing.

123

"My only concern is the timing: Two weeks ago this is brilliant. But now? I'm not sure there's time for this."

 

there's no time! we have to pass it NOW or all is lost!

 

Have i gone back in time to Sept. '08?

124

#107 This isn't red meat to the wingnuts here (and I say that lovingly!), but passing another plan, even if it gets shot down in the Senate, keeps the House "on the playing field" and keeps the pressure on Obama to come up with his own plan and stop just saying No to whatever the House does.  It also keeps the pressure on Harry Reid to "take 'yes' for an answer" as Boehner said the other nght.  It shows that Boehner is living in the real world and knows that CCB is dead, and is making a good faith effort to find a solution that the Senate will pass. 

And most important - It shows that the White House is going to fail in its effort to split the GOP and provoke an open revolt against Boehner.  I continue to maintain thet this is the Whole Shooting Match to the Democrats.  Obamas doesn't have a jack squat chance of being reelected unless he can somehow get the GOP to start immolating itself.  They have given this away so many times, and so clumsily, that it should be blindingly obvious to everyone, but apparently it isn't.

These are all worthy outcomes, even if the final plan really doesn't do squat to actually reduce the deficit. 

125
Gabe and Drew, on the ocean.

126 Marcus: "Who cares what McCain says?"

The MFM when he's undermining the Right. He's their useful idiot statesman. It's the only reason we must suffer the apparent fool.

127 Hrothgar, if that happens, I think any R survivors will be happy to have just survived.

128 Show us your plan, chief" feels like a good strategy but probably not appropriate since Congress is the lawmaker and the President is the signature or veto.

Except that didn't stop this a$$hole from spewing forth his "under my plan....." a million times over during the healthcare debacle.  He had a plan at the ready then.  Now....not so much.

129 John Boehner could have gotten CCB passed and you'd have called him a traitor for not getting the BBA itself passed.
Posted by: Hadd Charper at July 27, 2011 03:28 PM (0F3ej)

You logic is as weak as your mindreading skills and memory.

Boehner did, in fact, get CCB passed and I came her onto AoSHQ and congratulated him on it.

So you can continue to be weapons-grade stupid all you want on your own terms. Have fun with that, and enjoy the coming collapse.

Meanwhile I'm hoping someone slaps Boehner around and reminds him of the fact that CCB is sitting in the US Senate right now, ready to become the law of the land the minute someone wants to push back against Tara Reid and The Teleprompter.

130 I have to tell you I am unfazed by this

131

Meanwhile, a small article in American Thinker observes that in all of this melee, Dick O signed an EO declaring a state of emergency over dangerous and/or subversive groups threatening the US. 

With this regime, we have to keep our eyes moving over the whole terrain and not totally focus on one point.  There's no telling what's been going on behind the debt-limit smoke screen.  Stay alert, morons.

132 Lets see Reids plan. Put it up for a Senate vote and if it passes send it to the House. We've got all summer and fall. I know this sounds silly expecting Senators to write a bill, but what the heck, until the last 2 years it was done every year. Lets see Reid sweat trying to get a majority Senate bill. Then we will talk about compromise. Who in hell thought Sparky knew anything about budgets and negotiations? He is a man-child. A simpering idiot. Wasting 6 months dancing with the idgit was foolish.

133 "There must be some kinda way outta here,"
Said the joker to the thief...

Jon Stewart can be the joker but I've got too many thieves to chose from.

134 127 ...Mike Pence is saying back the Boehner plan. The fix is in. All the non freshman republicans seem to be behind the Boehner plan, so regardless of how much it sucks it looks like that's what we're going to end up with.

Some freshmen are in, others are not. Same with RSC veterans. But it ultimately doesn't matter, because this plan is going nowhere.

135 We really need to take on some more debt here.  When the interest rates go up I don't even want it to be close.  It needs to be a no-brainer, impossible to service the debt load.

136 This article is pretty much the crux of the issue.  The Democrats hold the Senate and the White House.  They should be presenting their plan to the House.  Part of the problem is that financial legislation MUST originate in the House so the Democrats aren't really in a position to present any legislation.  The Senate can't propose a bill, vote on it, and present it to the House, it must go the other way around.  So in that respect, Limbaugh is wrong.  The plan MUST originate in the House according to the constitution.  Any plan the Senate or the White House has is moot.

But the House Democrats could submit a plan having worked out consensus with Senate Democrats and the White House.   So far .... crickets.

137

Rich at July 27, 2011 03:51 PM (wnGI4)

How about if 70 House GOP said they were compromising, for the good of the country and voted present.  Da Dims then own the increased interest too.

138

Ok I am an l'idiot....help me understand if we make spending cuts why do we need to raise the debt ceiling?  Even one billion in cuts next year should provide a percentage of wiggle room for spending current obligations??

If we were to wrangel $300 billion cut from next year then why raise the debt ceiling?

139 I mean, Republicans are defending ending Medicare as we know it.

140 All his promises come with an expiration date.

Sometimes measured in nanoseconds.

141 Oh, man, my calculus tumor is really flaring up today.

Think Bachmann would share some of her meds with me?

142

It shows that the White House is going to fail in its effort to split the GOP and provoke an open revolt against Boehner. 

I'm sure we are well past that point.  They tried and failed with the Boehner/Cantor "split" a couple weeks ago.  But I'm pretty sure the freshman have no inclination to play follow the leader here. 

What Harry Reid could not accomplish the House freshman have.  So they got that goin' for 'em.  Which is nice.

143
WSJ article on this topic

The Antidote for Socialism
Wait for 2012

144 They've finally managed to scare the markets. DOW, S&P and NASDAQ down from 1.50 to 2.5 pct.

145 I'm surprised Soros or Iran hasn't given Obama a plan.  This might be a good sign.

146 While in DC fantasy land they fret over the debt ceiling, do not forget there is a real world out there, and it is much worse than what we have here. Never forget the US dollar can only decline against something else, and many nations do not want that. They want to discourage shorting the dollar. Case in point, as noted by Mike Shedlock: Brazil Charges Tax on Bets Against Dollar as Real Rallies to 12-Year High. Brazil imposed a tax on bets against the U.S. dollar and warned it may boost intervention in the nation’s derivatives market in a bid to weaken a currency that reached a 12-year high this week. As part of a new round of currency measures unveiled today, the government levied a 1 percent tax on short dollar positions in the country’s futures market above $10 million in notional value. The government may increase the tax up to 25 percent if needed, according to the decree signed by President Dilma Rousseff and published today in the Official Gazette. ...“We’re reducing the advantages enjoyed by speculators, and we expect the real will weaken or stop appreciating,” (Finance Minister) Mantega told reporters in Brasilia. The measures, the latest attempt by policy makers to ease capital inflows behind a 48 percent rally in the real since the end of 2008, are unlikely to reduce the attractiveness of Latin America’s biggest economy to foreign investors... Investment is pouring into Brazil as the nation develops offshore oil finds and prepares to host the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Summer Olympics. Foreign direct investment jumped to a record $69 billion in the 12 months through June, the central bank said yesterday. Brazil is suffering mightily when it comes to debt: Brazil risks tumbling from boom to bust Average rate of interest on consumer loans 47%, up from 41% in 2010 Consumer debt service burden was 24 per cent of disposable income in 2010, slated to rise to 28 per cent in 2011. This compares with 16% for an “overburdened” US consumer and a mid-single digit reading for other emerging markets such as China and India. Debt service burden for the so-called “middle class” in Brazil has now breached 50% of disposable income

147

the only strategy that matters, the only "winning" strategy there is, is cutting spending in a massive way, not raising the debt limit is the only way to accomplish that.

but the Ruling Class doesn't want to, the Ruling Class believes this is just a bump in the road, just a little blimp that would smooth out nicely if not for those despicable TEA Partiers and silly ideas like individual liberty and the wisdom of the masses.

148

If Boehner's plan passes the House, our responsibility in this debate ends at that very moment.  We shut up and offer nothing else.  Which means Dingy can either pass Boehner, which he hates, or CCB, which he really hates.

Either way, we scrape some semblance of victory out of this excrement sandwich.

We don't need a new bill.  Your position reduces to my position:  CCB or no debt limit increase.

 

Mike Pence is saying back the Boehner plan. The fix is in. All the non freshman republicans seem to be behind the Boehner plan, so regardless of how much it sucks it looks like that's what we're going to end up with.

 

I'm gonna go eat a gun.  Been nice vaguely knowing you all.

149 When playing 9th dimensional chess, never telegraph your second, third, and fourth moves at least until your opponent is seated at the table.

150

Posted by: crosspatch at July 27, 2011 03:57 PM (AdYoA)

You can tell them to issue, in writing, in specific, what will pass their muster.  Call it a 'Sense of the Senate' resolution.

Same for Obama.

They're the true 'Party of No.'

151

Even one billion in cuts next year should provide a percentage of wiggle room for spending current obligations??

Because the number is so effin' huge that you can't get there fast enough through the political process.

I work in DC.  One billion is a "rounding error" here.  And no, I am not kidding.

152

If we were to wrangel $300 billion cut from next year then why raise the debt ceiling?

Posted by: karenm at July 27, 2011 03:58 PM (HRsDF)

Because we would need to cut or raise additional revenue of $700B not to borrow in the next FY. Meanwhile this FY needs, iirc, $300B in borrowing.

153 If he feels that concerned and gets that churned up over having to defend his position, then he probably should reconsider his position.

154 Ok, so the folks demanding to see Obama's plan, will they be known as Planners?

155

Ok I am an l'idiot....help me understand if we make spending cuts why do we need to raise the debt ceiling?  Even one billion in cuts next year should provide a percentage of wiggle room for spending current obligations??

If we were to wrangel $300 billion cut from next year then why raise the debt ceiling?

----------

Rush explained this really well earlier today. It's because they aren't actual cuts in the real sense. It's just 1 billion less in GROWTH next year. So, the Fed. was supposed be going from (using random numbers) 8 billion to 12 billion next year, and now it will only go from 8 billion to 11 billion. So, the Boehner plan still calls for massive government growth...just slightly slower than what Obama would prefer.

As Rush said, if someone had a plan to just hold govt. spending at the exact levels they are today for the next ten years straight, the CBO would score that as a 9.5 TRILLION cut. So when Boehner talks about a 1 trillion cut over 10 years, that actually means he's talking about increasing the budget by 8.5 trillion over the next 10 years from where it is today.

156 Bluntly, I think the false premise is that the debt ceiling must be raised at all.

157 When we are getting foaming at the mouth from both sides, that's when we are getting close to a deal.
 
Soon though, all the foaming is going to have to come from one side.

158 BTW, that Chris Christie video in the sidebar is Teh Awesome.  THAT is a leader!!

159 McCain can kiss my a$$!

160 161 Ok, so the folks demanding to see Obama's plan, will they be known as Planners?

Planists.  Like in Racists.

161 15 It is completely possible to pass a small (say, $300 billion) debt limit increase that kicks in immediately while making the rest contingent on passing the BBA out of the Congress in, say, two months time.

No, it's not.  The initial $300 billion would be seen as a capitulation by the True Conservatives among us, and John Boehner would be compared to Pontius Pilate, Benedict Arnold, and Judas Iscariot for selling our party out to the Ruling Class.

Don't you understand?  They're the Veruca Salts of our party.  They want everything, and they want it right now, or they'll throw a tantrum.<<<

The kind you're throwing with this post, or the good kind?  The reason we can't get a damned thing done is that half of us are already too busy trying to buy the affection of the left.  The Dems get away with not passing a budget for 3 years and nobody over there shows signs of panic.  We can't even hold together long enough to shove the CCB down Harry Reid's f'n throat because goatropers like you reach for the smelling salts every time someone indicates they might like a second helping of gruel. 

I swear to God.  I'm divorcing ALL you sumsabitches.

162 Posted by: Hadd Charper at July 27, 2011 03:19 PM (0F3ej)

As opposed to you, the pragmatist, who will give the Dems what they want so that we can put all this behind us.

163 Awesome! Corn Man is back in the sidebar on the home page. Corn for everyone! It's a mandate!

164

The government may increase the tax up to 25 percent if needed, according to the decree signed by President Dilma Rousseff

Posted by: George Orwell at July 27, 2011 04:00 PM (AZGON)

 

I love the bit about issuing decrees. It has that noble, South American flair to it.

How long before Executive orders become decrees? We should start a pool.

165
The Antidote for Socialism
Wait for 2012

Posted by: cherry π at July 27, 2011 03:59 PM

That's what I keep thinking. Just do whatever
1) keeps us alive until then, and
2) wins us the elections

166

We can't even hold together long enough to shove the CCB down Harry Reid's f'n throat because goatropers like you reach for the smelling salts every time someone indicates they might like a second helping of gruel. 

Are you forgetting that we only control one-half Congress and none of the White House?

No kidding we can't ram anything down his throat. 

167 163 Bluntly, I think the false premise is that the debt ceiling must be raised at all.     Bingo. A no-plan holds government spending to the last budget. Makes sense too. If you aren't earning what you were earning, then you at least don't increase spending. Normal folks find ways to trim their budget - in real terms not make believe terms.

168 Rockmom Yes Obama def trying to split the GOP but he gets that if the Boehner plan passes the house then sent to the senate. Reid will accept because what else do they have? Nothing. If they don't pass it in the Senate they applied the squeeze on themselves. Of course the whole point is the "Boehner plan" doesn't do a thing right? Cuts spending a trillion over 10 years and we spend what 1 billion an hour? That's why they will accept it does nothing. Just gives the trillion up front to Obama exactly what they want just illusions for cash. We shall see.

169 I'm feeling woozy.  -198.75 (-1.59%)

170 Ok, so the folks demanding to see Obama's plan, will they be known as Planners?

Planists.  Like in Racists.

Posted by: kansas

 

Planirtherists= purists who demand to see obama's plan and/or birth certificate.

 

 

171 Obama's plan is to raise the debt ceiling on his own without congressional input. 

172 Are you forgetting that we only control one-half Congress and none of the White House?

No kidding we can't ram anything down his throat. 

 

What was the vote total of CCB in the Senate?  Didn't it only fail to pass by about four or five votes?

Instead of a grand omni-compromise, I'm with DeMint...if you want to do this, work on those five Senators to pass CCB to the President instead of going against the GOP base.  Then make Obama veto it and own the problem.

173

This crap is all hocus pocus.

 Reid won't pass Boehners plan. Boehners plan might well pass the House with enough Tea Partiers voting no to give them cover.

Reid will pass his plan out of the Senate with all rat votes and the RINOs in the House will sign on to the deal, eliminating taxes, but giving the Lyin kING his wish of enough money to get him past the 12 election.

All this at the last minute to save the country, again letting the Tea Party vote no.

Lyin kING and Rats will claim victory and the Presstitutes will sing hallelueia all praises to the Lyin kING!

The Stupid Party made up of pandering old RINOs will not know what the hell happened to them our will like takin it in the behind again like always.

Just say we submitted a workable plan it was CCB, don't want that send us yours and you own the fallout.

174

Instead of a grand omni-compromise, I'm with DeMint...if you want to do this, work on those five Senators to pass CCB to the President instead of going against the GOP base.  Then make Obama veto it and own the problem.

I'd certainly be down with that, but I don't think it would work.  It's still worth a shot.  It sure as shit sounds better than any plan Boehner has going on now.

Somehow I don't think "Get your ass in line" is going to be a winning message for the House frosh.

175 173

We can't even hold together long enough to shove the CCB down Harry Reid's f'n throat because goatropers like you reach for the smelling salts every time someone indicates they might like a second helping of gruel. 

Are you forgetting that we only control one-half Congress and none of the White House?

No kidding we can't ram anything down his throat. <<<

Bullshit.  Make him own the refusal to see reason.  Every.  Single.  Goddamn.  Day.

176 Oklahoma City:  106F and still climbing.

177 Obama's plan is to raise the debt ceiling on his own without congressional input. 

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber

 

And if the credit rating gets shot down? His paw is then the only one on the ugly thing. There's a reason why we saw a WH pres secretary tell people that if you left early on Friday you don't get fruit cup. They want the Republicans to be the authors of a plan that they previously beat on, to the delight of their base and the MFM.

And we're going to give them that. Make the fuckers go dumpster diving and uncrumple CC& B or a BBA.

Or, kill Obamacare in exchange for a debt limit increase. Let him take that to the American people.

178 I've seen freshmen listed as yes on the vote count tallies, so why are we talking about them lacking allies? Jim Jordan and the others who signed the CCB pledge aren't all freshmen, either.

No/Leaning No:

Todd Akin, Justin Amash, Michele Bachmann, Paul Broun, Jason Chaffetz, Jeff Flake, Phil Gingrey, Louie Gohmert, Paul Gosar, Trey Gowdy, Tom Graves, Tim Huelskamp, Jim Jordan, Steve King, Connie Mack,
Mick Mulvaney, Ron Paul, Steve Southerland, and Joe Walsh

179 Oklahoma City:  106F and still climbing.

Posted by: Soona

 

If it breaks 110, sell.

You can send my commission check to:

AoSHQ brokerage services and spot welding

180

Bullshit.  Make him own the refusal to see reason.  Every.  Single.  Goddamn.  Day.

"Harry Reid" and "reason"  do not belong together in the same sentence.  On the other hand, there are several combinations which might work.

"Harry Read" and "impervious to logic" for example.  Or,

"Harry Reid" and "advanced dementia"

 

181 Boehner's vs. Reid's: A political solution isn't. Either solve the problem or make sure you get invited to all the right cocktail parties.

182 Did FDR send a half-ass fleet to Japan in December 1941?

Hell no, over th next year, he built a heaping swarming mass of metal and then sent it westward.

Let's build for 2012.

183 Boehner plan passes. Magically, Reid and Obama reverse course and sign on. Press reports keys to economy have been handed to Republicans. Democrats continue to spend like mad in the background, unreported. Boehner's plan effectively does nothing because, well, it does nothing. Economy still in the toilet late 2012, press and Democrats (BIRM) say Republicans sabotaged the recovery. RINOs blame Conservatives and/or "those darned kids," promise that they'll get something done in the *next* electoral cycle, everyone else gets boned. Since we're wargaming.

184 I'm feeling woozy.  -198.75 (-1.59%)
Posted by: DJIA

I passed woozy early this morning: -23.95 (2.9%).

185 Juan McCain: jackass and enabler for Barky O'BeenDoin' through his magnificent campaign for President in 2008.

186 Are you forgetting that we only control one-half Congress and none of the White House? No kidding we can't ram anything down his throat. Who's this "we" you're talking about?

187 156

I'm gonna go eat a gun.  Been nice vaguely knowing you all.

Posted by: Truman North at July 27, 2011 04:00 PM (K2wpv)

The GOP controls one-half of one branch of the federal government.  We aren't going to get everything we want (i.e. everything the country needs) right now.  We don't have enough power.  Like it or not, the Dems in the Senate and Obama were elected too.

The GOP has succeeded in making this a major issue, probably THE major issue of 2012.  They also successfully fought off Obama's push for tax increases to fight debt (which I think Obama was always counting on once he increased spending the way he did). Whatever gets passed now should get the ball rolling on the significant changes that we all know can only happen when we have a conservative POTUS again.

Both the House and Senate should be Republican after 2012 and *hopefully* we can put a conservative in the White House.  And that's about the earliest any real changes are going to happen.

188

Posted by: The Laws of Economics at July 27, 2011 04:16 PM (FcR7P)

Good to see you, old chap.  I understand that one of your principles is "Whatever cannot continue, will not."

Be a dear boy and get to work on that, won't you?

189 The tea leaf-readers at the WH know that Toonces is not winning the PR game this time.  The Republicans need only stand by CC&B and demand to see (not hear) the president's plan.  All it takes is a strong confident Conservative leader. We don't have one.  This fight is in the hands of a tanned alcoholic weeper.  We are screwed.

STOP OFFERING PLANS!  START DEMANDING HIS!

190

STFU McVain, you've been in congress for 30 years or so. YOU are part of the fookin problem, not the solution.

Thanks Arizona for sticking us with this putz for 6 more back-stabbing years

191 #187 - Spot on!  I will bet you anything that he has to have someone dress him in the morning so he doesn't go out looking like a derelict.

192

Both the House and Senate should be Republican after 2012 and *hopefully* we can put a conservative in the White House.  And that's about the earliest any real changes are going to happen

That's about the size of it right there.

193

I'm just so sick of it.  Obama sits back and waits for the GOP to eat itself, proposing a new plan every 5 minutes until he's satisfied that it does nothing and he gets his trillion plus to play with.  So at the end of 10 years under Boehner's plan our debt is 24 trillion vs. 25 trillion and our debt to GDP ratio is 92 % vs. 104%.  Yippeee! Great goin' guys! And don't think the media is going to give you ANY credit for trying. 

If I were that RSC staffer (and independently wealthy), I'd go full Alabama coal miner on them. 

 

194 My hands are shaky and my knees are weak
I can't seem to stand on my own two feet
Who do you thank when you have such luck?
I'm RINO
I'm all fucked up
Mm mm oh, oh, yeah, yeah!

195 @190 (nods head, shakes head) The bizarre thing is that so many Adult Responsible Commentators and Realistic Politicians think they can predict how any plan now, enacted August 2, will play out with the voters in a year and a half. Do they really think playing King of the Hill in summer 2011 has sasquatch shit-all to do with events over a year away?

196

Whatever gets passed now should get the ball rolling on the significant changes that we all know can only won't happen when we have a conservative POTUS again.

FIFY.  The GOP isn't going to suddenly develop the political courage to tackle entitlements and spending when they hold all three houses.  They will only operate to keep all three houses, just like right now Boehner's main goal is to not lose his position as Speaker.

197

and only $1.7 trillion additional debt per yr under the economy turns around.

Posted by: huh? at July 27, 2011 03:33 PM (ucq49)

Only if the debt ceiling is continuously raised to compensate for it. 

That's one reason the BBA sideshow is so ridiculous.  As Denninger's pointed out, once the debt ceiling is breached, the government only has to pay interest on the current debt--everything else is a choice.  Essentially, the country ends up with a de facto balanced budget.

When that happens, as he's said, pain is inevitable because some hard choices have to be made on what to pay--essentially, entire departments get nuked because there's simply no revenue to cover it.  In this scenario, because GDP would plummet instantly now that there's no debt printing to prop it up, the calls for tax increases would likely be inevitable, and the possibility is strong that we'd go back to (at least) the Clinton tax rates--the Reps would cave on this simply due to the fact that the GDP rollback would be extremely painful and they'd get blamed for it.  At the same time, if we don't make about $4 trillion in cuts, S&P could (notice I didn't say "would") downgrade us, and that could start a whole global chain reaction.

Bottom line is we are finally paying the price for not servicing the debt since 1957 while expecting GDP expansion (most of which has been the result of funny money credit expansion) to make up for it.

198 190...

Absolutely perfect!!

199 Let's build for 2012. Posted by: cherry π at July 27, 2011 04:13 PM (OhYCU) You know, I've been fascinated by your two year plan for the last twenty-three years.

200 The White House would like you to know that it takes this fiscal policy shit very seriously: http://tinyurl.com/3qm7wnk

201 "Boehner plan passes. Magically, Reid and Obama reverse course and sign on. Press reports keys to economy have been handed to Republicans." Yep. "Please don't throw us in that briar patch!"

202 You know, I've been fascinated by your two year plan for the last twenty-three years.

But the economy hadn't been anally raped the other times

203

Both the House and Senate should be Republican after 2012 and *hopefully* we can put a conservative in the White House.  And that's about the earliest any real changes are going to happen.

Posted by: robviously at July 27, 2011 04:16 PM (7UMow)

 

And there it is.  That's the solution, plus, getting as many concervative governors and state legislatures as we can.

Unfortunately, we still have a year and four months of Dick and his silent minions in which to contend.  Kratos is absolutely right.  The socialists in power are going to try to create as much chaos as they can prior to 2012.  They are out to destroy the fabric of this country.

204 You know, I've been fascinated by your two year plan for the last twenty-three years. It's a long, long road... Down which we must kick the can...

205 This late in the game, and given the current circumstances, there's only one way out:

1.  Pass a bill, like maybe CCB again, and include a freeze on all government spending

then

2. Go on the PR offensive. Hang any failure to pass the Bill on Dingy Harry and the Senate, and JEF.

The situation really is ugly, but the solution really is just a contest of wills.

JEF has shown that he will simply have his way.  The country, preferably in the form of the Congress, needs to show him otherwise.

206 So is the argument really that nothing is going to get done, so we don't want to embarrass the opoposition by asking for too much? If one billion in cuts is too much to ask for, where's the harm in asking for 300 billion? Or 900 billion? Are people seriously worrying that Republicans will be harmed by the perception that they're trying to cut spending?

207 Posted by: free opinions while they last at July 27, 2011 03:49 PM (uKvvZ)

You are probably right.

208 But the economy hadn't been anally raped the other times Posted by: cherry π at July 27, 2011 04:23 PM (OhYCU) That process has been going on for a lot more than twenty-three years. The rapist (rampaging government) may have taken a break in 1995 and 2007, but you'll notice that he gets back to work pretty quickly.

209 203

Whatever gets passed now should get the ball rolling on the significant changes that we all know can only won't happen when we have a conservative POTUS again.

FIFY.  The GOP isn't going to suddenly develop the political courage to tackle entitlements and spending when they hold all three houses.  They will only operate to keep all three houses, just like right now Boehner's main goal is to not lose his position as Speaker.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 27, 2011 04:21 PM (FkKjr)

So even taking the Senate and electing a conservative POTUS won't work?  What is your solution then?

210 Why don't you cry babies do what I did to help President Obama. I had a yard sale the other week and made $137 dollars. I put the check in the envelope and sent it to Presadent Obama and he sent back a letter thanking me for doing something about the problem Bush created. If we all did this the debt problem would go away. Whathave  all you little whiners done for this country ????

211 "And that's about the earliest any real changes are going to happen." And then what? The GOP gets to preside over highly unpopular and difficult spending cuts until the House flips overwhelmingly democrat in the 2014 election. Then irresponsible democrats will whip the dependent classes into a frenzy against "the man" and provide the buses for the flash mobs. Leave the ceiling where it is. Let Obama and his executive branch make the hard decisions that will pit his constituent grievance groups against one other, and let them battle it out on their own solid-blue turf. The game is already over. It's time to jockey for position for when (if) the next round starts.

212 The rapist (rampaging government) may have taken a break in 1995 and 2007, but you'll notice that he gets back to work pretty quickly. Yes. You can't build up trillions of debt overnight. It is the work of decades, and that is the problem. On the other hand, Dick Soetero plans to beat that record and borrow trillions in a day. Gotta hand it to him for ambition.

213 Seems to me in the end, the govt is going to spend another 2.5T by the time the Mayans get here to bone us. 

214 I had a yard sale the other week and made $137 dollars.

Please get in the car, we have some questions for you.
- the police

215 190
Economy still in the toilet late 2012, press and Democrats (BIRM) say Republicans sabotaged the recovery.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 27, 2011 04:14 PM (bxiXv)

This is already happening, BTW.  I've seen comments from liberals on websites to the effect of "Those Tea-Baggers were elected in 2010 and NOW EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE!!!1!"

That's not going to work though.  The Republicans are still the minority party in D.C.

216 The game is already over. It's time to jockey for position for when (if) the next round starts.

*nods*

217 206  You know, I've been fascinated by your two year plan for the last twenty-three years.

How many conservatives were elected during those 23yrs?  Certainly not enough to make a difference. 
I also don't see the point of rolling-over because we couldn't change everything in one election cycle. Giving-up is one of the facors that helped cause this mess, and I'm not just referencing the '06 and '08 elections. Attempting to undo everything from the New Deal onward is going to take a lot of time...which we unfortunately don't have.

218 That's not going to work though. The Republicans are still the minority party in D.C. Posted by: robviously at July 27, 2011 04:32 PM (7UMow) Well, it will work with the *democrats*, because they will believe anything but the truth. I'm not sure it won't work with the *independents*, they're generally not well-informed, sadly, IME.

219 Repeal the New Deal!!!

220 Did FDR send a half-ass fleet to Japan in December 1941?

Hell no, over th next year, he built a heaping swarming mass of metal and then sent it westward.

Let's build for 2012.

Posted by: cherry ð

 

Actually, yes, he and Churchill did. Both sent naval units to the far side of the world where they were overwhelmed and pounded beneath the waves (loss of HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales and the loss of almost all ships of the Allied task force ABDA in the Java Sea).

The difference then was that both Britain and America had time and distance from Japan to replace and eclipse the ships lost.

There is no such 'building program' here.

221

So even taking the Senate and electing a conservative POTUS won't work?  What is your solution then?

Posted by: robviously at July 27, 2011 04:29 PM (7UMow)

The GOP must show the will to fight right now.  Not next year, or in four years if daggone it we didn't get the Senate and the house, or eight years if we judge the 'landscape' just isn't right for spending cuts.  Now is the time to dig in and be willing to go to the breach.  Only then will I have faith that with the Senate and WH they can get the ball rolling on serious change.  Otherwise, it's the same old story.

Right now, all I hear from the 'realists' is excuses.  Boehner is saying he can't do anything else.  Well newsflash John - nobody forced you to be Speaker.  You want to be Speaker, be a genius and make stuff happen.  Don't come and tell us how hard your job is and how surrender is the best you can do.

222 I also don't see the point of rolling-over because we couldn't change everything in one election cycle. Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 04:34 PM (o2lIv) You know, given that nobody reads anything I write, why am I doing it?

223 Posted by: Soona at July 27, 2011 03:56 PM (0jg/X)

Got a link? What is this about?

224 "You know, given that nobody reads anything I write, why am I doing it?" Itchy fingertips and just the right amount of abrasiveness on your keycaps?

225 What makes any of you morons confident that there will even be a 2012 election?

226 Did FDR send a half-ass fleet to Japan in December 1941?

Posted by: cherry ð

You should look up the Doolittle Raid.  It's that thing FDR ordered after Pearl Harbour. 

227 So when Boehner talks about a 1 trillion cut over 10 years, that actually means he's talking about increasing the budget by 8.5 trillion over the next 10 years from where it is today.

Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011 04:02 PM (wnGI4)

The very fact that Boner is calling this a cut shows how out of touch he is, and he is not a part of the solution.

228 I wish that John McCain would reach across the aisle and work with Republicans...

229 229 You know, given that nobody reads anything I write, why am I doing it?

I say that because it sounded like you were saying there was no point in trying with the next elections because it hasn't worked thus far. If I'm wrong, I apologize. 

230 Are you comparing Boehner to Doolittle?

231 At motorcycle rallies, they have something called a "slow race", where the last person across the finish line without falling over is the winner. This credit limit debate reminds me of that.

232 Are you comparing Boehner to Doolittle?

Posted by: cherry ð

 

Heck no. Doolittle appeared to know what he was doing and was successful.

233 If it's nothing, the country goes in the shitter and we get blamed for it.

How so? Why do "we" get the blame for all the spending someone else did?

234 So according to the WSJ, if the Tea Party is the Hobbits, what's McMaverick's Middle Earth alter ego? Saruman seems most likely, the old turncoat who stabs his former allies in the back out of jealousy and spite.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 27, 2011 03:26 PM (71Fka)

Wormtongue.

Posted by: Ms Choksondik

Nicely done!

235 Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith: "You know, given that nobody reads anything I write, why am I doing it?"

I dunno, but I've always just skipped the comments. Except for today where I accidentally clicked the New Comment Thingy.

236 It might all be a little doolittle and little doolate

237 The question of who gets the blame should not enter the picture. This is about how we choose our demise and how much power we give Obama in so doing.

238 Should versus will. Crossing the beams. End times. Cats and dogs living together. Mayans. Dang. I give up. Just revert to the 2008 budget and be done with it. No-plan is the only responsible thing to do. Let Obama eat kibble.

239

Stop worrying about what the MFM will say. We know what they'll say. A downgrade is in the cards, whether warranted or not warranted, for political purposes. If the GOP acts, it will be the cause of the downgrade. If the GOP doesn't act, it will be the cause of the downgrade. I would be trying to prepare a response to the lies and spin.

240 Does this mean term limits for house and senate is off the table?

241

If I remember correctly aren't these ratings agencies the same idiots that gave AAA ratings to those mortgage securities we ultimately bailed out AIG for dollar for dollar who "insured" them. Blow back at these pompous asses. A more reliable assessment is what Bill Gross does and he's a flaming Dem. 

The ratings are a joke. What's the rating for State of California bonds? Does it have a debt ceiling? Can it print its own money?

242 Can't anyone on our side COUNT any more?

A BBA requires 290 votes in the House AND 67 votes in the Senate.  In what alternate reality do you get to those numbers.

"Oh," reply the gullible, "an Amendment fell only one vote short in the Senate in 1995."

Sure it did.  Because every Democrat who wasn't absolutely needed to block it was allowed to vote for it to enhance his/her "fiscal responsibility" creds at home, something to point to in future campaigns without the inconvenience of having to actually pass the darned thing. 

Is there a single person so naive to think it would not fail by a single vote in the Senate again, when every Democrat up for reelection in a tough state next year can vote FOR it and still have it lose?

Really, people, this makes no sense.  None.  If we sweep next year, we may frighten the remaining Democrats into it, but not before.

243 John McCain can go piss up a rope.

244 Repeal the Sixteenth Amendment.

245 Yes. Wait for Obama's plan. That's the way to do it. If its too close, then pass a 30 day extensions, clean, and say "OK champ, 30 days for your plan. Show us your the adult."

246

If we all did this the debt problem would go away. Whathave all you little whiners done for this country ????

What percentage of the $50,000 owed by every American is $357?  Regardless, the debt problem is merely a by-product of the spending problem.  Have you ever heard of the term deficit?

247 "I wish John McCain would reach across the isle and work with republicans."

LOL!!

248 We passed Cut, Cap and Balance.  Stand pat on that.  Don't vote for anything else.  If the Dems don't play ball, their butt buddies the Chinese can pound sand. 

Stiff 'em if they won't pass Cut Cap and Balance.  It's better than being debt slaves to the new world order for the next 100 years.

249

#249

 

Exactly how do you know that.

 

Every Senator who votes against a balanced budget member who isn't from a people's state like California, would be doomed.

 

Get them on record.  Keep them on record. Make that record something they cannot run away from.

 

I reserve a special place in my list of most cowardly people for John McCain.

250 I say that because it sounded like you were saying there was no point in trying with the next elections because it hasn't worked thus far. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 04:48 PM (o2lIv) Could not be more backward. I said, have said, and said for years that SURRENDERING DOES NOT WORK. You have to push for what you want or you'll get nothing, and you have to push damned hard because Democrats do not "compromise." The RINO faction has been telling us for years and years that compromise is the only way to get things done, and if you only count what the Democrats want, you're right. I don't want to lose my effing country because politicians have a spending addiction. Could someone who *DOES* understand what I'm saying please let me know why so many otherwise reasonable people have no idea?

251

This is what you get when you allow cradle to grave entitlements! We now have roughly 9 generations of 'folks' who've never worked, never plan to work, and don't feel they should have to work! However, this very segment is now a majority, so what results is this, plain and simple....you have 60% to 65% of the population depending on the remaining 35% for their support and upkeep and voting to increase that disparity. When 65% of the people can tell the other 35% what they must do FOR them, you get out of control spending and the crap we have today!

Ayn tried to warn us when she said "FROM each according to his ability, TO each according to his need!"- when the 65% determine the need, and the 35% pay for it...well Houston....we have a problem! When a massive segment of a society can determine how the taxes they don't pay are spent and on whom and for what, well,,,,,let it default! Maybe then they, the entitlement classes might once again learn some respect for the hands that feeds them...