October 11, 2011
— andy Another one of these things. Because what could be smarter than letting the MFM pick our candidate? Again.
The October 11th debate will be moderated by Charlie Rose, Washington Post political correspondent Karen Tumulty and Bloomberg TV White House correspondent Julianna Goldman. Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann, businessman Herman Cain, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, Texas Rep. Ron Paul, Texas Gov. Rick Perry, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum will participate in the live debate at Dartmouth College.
Starts at 8:00pm. Livestream here and here. Also: the Bloomberg TV channel finder.
I would suggest some drinking game rules, but with Charlie Rose moderating it's going to be hard enough to stay awake sober. Drink 'em if ya got 'em, I guess.
Standard reminder: Your comments do not automatically display. So don't ask "Why aren't my comments displaying?" They don't display.
They're not posted comments a la chat room. Instead they go to queue, which the producers (cobloggers) read, and we post them, by hand, if we think they make a good point.
Liveblog thingy below the fold.
Posted by: andy at
03:45 PM
| Comments (760)
Post contains 200 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at October 11, 2011 03:47 PM (AZGON)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 11, 2011 03:48 PM (ieWmi)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 03:48 PM (Z71Vg)
If asked directly by her, they should say, "What?" Then, "What? What? What?" And finally, "Charlie, next question, please!"
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at October 11, 2011 03:48 PM (4sQwu)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 03:48 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: poljunkie at October 11, 2011 03:48 PM (XuiJf)
Posted by: Less at October 11, 2011 03:49 PM (PGXeZ)
Fuckitall, Gary Johnson FTW.
Posted by: Doofus at October 11, 2011 03:49 PM (xKC/c)
http:// www. angelfire. com/ ak2/ intelligencerreport/ boy_dog.html
*take out the spaces, of course.
Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at October 11, 2011 03:49 PM (AmZ/y)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:50 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 03:50 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 11, 2011 03:51 PM (ieWmi)
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 03:51 PM (/ej8I)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:51 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 03:52 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: MaxMBJ at October 11, 2011 03:52 PM (deaac)
Why don't the Rebubs fly to Venezuela and have Hugo ask the questions?
Because that would be an improvement.
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 03:52 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:53 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:55 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 03:55 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 03:55 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 11, 2011 03:55 PM (ieWmi)
Posted by: notropis at October 11, 2011 03:55 PM (cjcCc)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:56 PM (i6RpT)
The economy is the Number 1 issue until War breaks out in the MIddle East and the Oil stops flowing.
Or until (God forbid) we get attacked again.
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 03:56 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 03:56 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:57 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 07:53 PM (i6RpT)
That's my sister, so shut up.
Posted by: Helen Thomas at October 11, 2011 03:57 PM (ieWmi)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 03:58 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 03:58 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:58 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: USS Diversity at October 11, 2011 03:58 PM (aD5Kx)
Posted by: Retread at October 11, 2011 03:59 PM (W0b97)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 03:59 PM (i6RpT)
President Obama blames GOP for filibuster of jobs bill: "TonightÂ’s vote is by no means the end of this fight"
(jamiedupree)
Posted by: Miss'80s at October 11, 2011 03:59 PM (d6QMz)
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 04:00 PM (/ej8I)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at October 11, 2011 07:59 PM (6ckqe
what no lipstick?
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:01 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:02 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:02 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at October 11, 2011 04:02 PM (6ckqe)
Posted by: f2000 at October 11, 2011 04:02 PM (FcMtg)
Posted by: Bosk at October 11, 2011 04:02 PM (n2K+4)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at October 11, 2011 04:03 PM (6ckqe)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 04:04 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:04 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 04:05 PM (JM2AX)
Just wait --
Moderater: Gov. Perrry, the first question will go to you.....
Audience: (Gove. Perry, the first question will go to you.....)
Ron Paul: MIKE CHECK! MIKE CHECK!
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 11, 2011 04:06 PM (ieWmi)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:07 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at October 11, 2011 04:07 PM (6ckqe)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 04:07 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 04:07 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:08 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:09 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:09 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 04:09 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:10 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 04:10 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:10 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:10 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 04:10 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: Sam at October 11, 2011 04:11 PM (UEB+3)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:11 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:12 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:12 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 04:13 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:13 PM (niZvt)
She should have asked if there is evidence of crime why have no charges been filed?
Posted by: Retread at October 11, 2011 04:13 PM (W0b97)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:13 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:14 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 11, 2011 04:14 PM (ieWmi)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at October 11, 2011 04:14 PM (6ckqe)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:14 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:15 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 04:15 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:15 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:16 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:17 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:18 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:18 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Fart at October 11, 2011 04:19 PM (39HkA)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:19 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:20 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:21 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:21 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 04:21 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:21 PM (ieDPL)
yeah but the moderators are not going to let that lastPosted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:21 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:22 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 04:22 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:23 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:23 PM (i6RpT)
YupPosted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:24 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:24 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:24 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:24 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:25 PM (I/MzF)
Mitt- Depends what you want to hear agrees with stimulus
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:27 PM (I/MzF)
But i'm there to make decisions
how to preserve be clear!?
smart,
ok where's the ideas?
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:29 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:29 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Guy who never posts here anyways at October 11, 2011 04:29 PM (4P3pL)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 04:30 PM (Z71Vg)
I have never seen any proof that the economy would have done anything different than it did if there were never a bailout.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 04:31 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 04:32 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 04:32 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:32 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 04:32 PM (ze29X)
Personally I'd keep Newt as far away from any women as possible. He strikes me as the kind who can't keep it zippered. Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:32 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 04:33 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 04:33 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:33 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:33 PM (i6RpT)
im tired of worrying if my children are going to survive.
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:33 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:34 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:34 PM (I/MzF)
Do we ever stop worrying about out children?Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:34 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Mayor Bloomberg at October 11, 2011 04:36 PM (i6RpT)
as far as i saw it saved some jobs temporarily.
and caused a lot of distrust and anger at those that were picked to be the winners.
not for america but for pay to play schemes
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:36 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 04:36 PM (w3YD7)
Do we ever stop worrying about out children?
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 08:34 PM (i6RpT
No we don't I say we present the wall streeters with felony charges for ripping off the fed government over their student loans
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:37 PM (I/MzF)
no. but i anctually didn't worry if my children could actually afford to feed and house my grandchildren. as they'd already been doing this until the sht hit the fan a coupel of years ago.
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:37 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 04:38 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 04:38 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:38 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:38 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 04:38 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:39 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 04:41 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 04:41 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:41 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 04:41 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 04:41 PM (/ej8I)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:42 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:42 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: huerfano at October 11, 2011 04:43 PM (fecOD)
Michelle sounds like somebody's bitchy mother.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 04:43 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:43 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 04:43 PM (gDszm)
she can do better than that..
ok now she actually brings up the tax amts.
and she is clarifying dollar amts to those not knowing.
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:43 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:44 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 04:44 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:44 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 04:45 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 04:45 PM (GKyUC)
Posted by: Charlie Rose at October 11, 2011 04:45 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Charlie Rose at October 11, 2011 04:47 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:48 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: katya, the designated driver at October 11, 2011 04:48 PM (7qKVv)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:48 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 04:48 PM (ze29X)
That is useful information and its quite easy to come a croper if you are not vigilant.
Posted by: Hungry Girl Supermarket Survival ePub at October 11, 2011 04:48 PM (T16Q5)
Posted by: Charlie Rose at October 11, 2011 04:49 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 04:49 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at October 11, 2011 04:49 PM (azHfB)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:49 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 04:49 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:50 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: huerfano at October 11, 2011 04:50 PM (fecOD)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:50 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: ...And noodles at October 11, 2011 04:51 PM (bMlVI)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:52 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 04:52 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: Cheri at October 11, 2011 04:52 PM (BA8k3)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:52 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:53 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:53 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 04:54 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 04:55 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 04:56 PM (GKyUC)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 04:56 PM (m9ow/)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:56 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 04:56 PM (00hVo)
I wish I could be watching this right now. But there's way too much estrogen floating around for a political debate to be on the television.
TV #1 tuned to Nick
TV #2 tuned to some Gordon Ramsey foolishness
I'm ashamed to even know what a Gordon Ramsey is
Posted by: Truman North at October 11, 2011 04:57 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: huerfano at October 11, 2011 04:57 PM (fecOD)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 04:58 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 04:58 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 04:58 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 04:58 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 04:58 PM (ACkhT)
Are children the usual commercial spokespersons on this channel?
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 04:59 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 04:59 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:00 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:00 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:01 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:01 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: pep at October 11, 2011 05:01 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: pep at October 11, 2011 09:01 PM (6TB1Z)
It's actually kind of sad and painful to watch him.
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: JDW at October 11, 2011 05:05 PM (9Q2Pi)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:06 PM (00hVo)
Whose idea was it to give Perry a shot of Nyquil before the debate?
Posted by: Ba at October 11, 2011 05:06 PM (21/5D)
Posted by: Charlie Rose at October 11, 2011 05:07 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: JDW at October 11, 2011 05:07 PM (9Q2Pi)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:07 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:08 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:08 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:08 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:08 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:09 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: JDW at October 11, 2011 05:09 PM (9Q2Pi)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 05:09 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:09 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:09 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:10 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 09:07 PM (i6RpT)
Duh, she want's to loot the body.
(Haven't you ever played D&D before?...)
Posted by: Warthog at October 11, 2011 05:10 PM (ZL8Ru)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:11 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 05:11 PM (GKyUC)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:11 PM (00hVo)
Romney not answering the question. What good are cap gains cuts for people who don't have cap gains?
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:11 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:12 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:12 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: JDW at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (9Q2Pi)
Posted by: Marybel at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (Hic+o)
Yeah he's good at this shit, a master deflector.
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 09:09 PM (i6RpT)
who ever the Establishment tells us they want, that's how it works now...
are we still calling this a democratic republic?
... not sure why.
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 05:14 PM (ze29X)
I want a ticket that will put Obama out of business.
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:14 PM (00hVo)
Caine defends the Feds monetary policy?
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 05:14 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:14 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 09:13 PM
He had me at steel mill
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (I/MzF)
"Romney looks and sounds pretty good. "
remember, that's all it is - sound and image signifiying nothing.
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (m9ow/)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:16 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:16 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:16 PM (niZvt)
"I want a ticket that will put Obama out of business."
yep, completely agree there, also it [romney/cain] takes the race card out of the picture.
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:16 PM (ACkhT)
"9-9-9 Muthafucker, do you speak it?"
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at October 11, 2011 05:17 PM (azHfB)
Posted by: Doom am I, full-ripe, dealing death to the worlds, engaged in devouring mankind. at October 11, 2011 05:17 PM (ew3Az)
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 05:18 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 05:18 PM (GKyUC)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (GKyUC)
Romney's improved a lot since 2008, I remember he had this stunned looked when debating Mccain.
the thing no one asks Romney, if MA has RomneyCare and it runs out of money, as it has, will the Fed govt be giving the state of MA money for their healthcare costs?
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at October 11, 2011 09:17 PM (qjUnn)
Right there with you, man.
Up hill all the way though.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: Twilight The Graphic Novel Volume 2 epub at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (L2SVL)
Not I care for Romney, but that might work.
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 08:00 PM (/ej8I)
This.
Posted by: John Madden at October 11, 2011 05:19 PM (/izg2)
Romney reaching out to Bachmann's few remaining tea partiers...and to chicks...
soft ball / seemingly gracious question to the woman on the panel.
Posted by: JDW at October 11, 2011 05:20 PM (9Q2Pi)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:20 PM (I/MzF)
Obama Lite looking to line his pockets.
The only silver lining is all the libtards in the bureaucracy that will be replaced throughout the federal government with morman buddies.
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:20 PM (FIv4w)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:20 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:21 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Marybel at October 11, 2011 05:21 PM (Hic+o)
Right there with you, man.
Up hill all the way though.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 09:19 PM (jx2j9)
Yes, I am still bitterly clinging to Perry.
Posted by: Max Power at October 11, 2011 05:21 PM (q177U)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:22 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:22 PM (FIv4w)
Posted by: snowcrash at October 11, 2011 05:22 PM (w3YD7)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 05:22 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:23 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: jeanne! with two N's and an E at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (oLbDy)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: Cheri at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (BA8k3)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Mayor Bloomberg at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:25 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 05:25 PM (GKyUC)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:25 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 05:25 PM (m9ow/)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:25 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:26 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: ...And noodles at October 11, 2011 05:26 PM (bMlVI)
Posted by: Marybel at October 11, 2011 05:26 PM (Hic+o)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 05:26 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:26 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:26 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:28 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: dagny at October 11, 2011 09:27 PM (LVNkq)
I've been trying to figure that out for months.
Posted by: Ace's liver at October 11, 2011 05:28 PM (1+XRG)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 05:28 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:28 PM (00hVo)
Bachmom 'lets make obama a one term president!
Perry 'Put people back to work ' Did he say president of mexico??
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:29 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:29 PM (Z71Vg)
Perry for Energy.
Cain for Commerce.
Bachmann for IRS.
Romney for Treasury.
Santorum for State.
Huntsman for Ambassador to Tuvalu.
Newt for Grand Vizier.
Paul for Surgeon General.
And for President,
Dick "Go Fuck Yourself, Pat" Cheney!!!
Posted by: Dewey at October 11, 2011 05:29 PM (YTJQp)
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:29 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 05:29 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 05:30 PM (/ej8I)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:30 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:31 PM (FIv4w)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:31 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 05:31 PM (m9ow/)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:32 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: ...And noodles at October 11, 2011 05:32 PM (bMlVI)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:32 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:32 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:33 PM (ACkhT)
Santorum is really creepy when he smiles, looks like a demon elf or something.
He looks constipated.
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:33 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:33 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:34 PM (FIv4w)
Posted by: Marybel at October 11, 2011 05:34 PM (Hic+o)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:35 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: Big T Party at October 11, 2011 05:35 PM (JM2AX)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 05:35 PM (GKyUC)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:35 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Shiggz at October 11, 2011 05:36 PM (I9fXA)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:36 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 05:36 PM (ACkhT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:36 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:36 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: SquishyCynic at October 11, 2011 05:36 PM (BO6kz)
We can say Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure, a Presidential candidate can't.
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:37 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 05:37 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:37 PM (niZvt)
I'm actually thinking Bachmann is going to be Romney's VP.
I thought so... but she'll get the Palin treatment and they both know it.
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:37 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: pko Strany at October 11, 2011 05:38 PM (RJOgX)
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 05:38 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:38 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:38 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 05:38 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: Train Dreams AudioBook at October 11, 2011 05:39 PM (9p9YC)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:39 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:39 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:39 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:39 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 09:37 PM (fyOgS)
Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.
Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit Son of a Bitch at October 11, 2011 05:40 PM (00hVo)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 05:40 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:40 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Marybel at October 11, 2011 05:41 PM (Hic+o)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:41 PM (i6RpT)
sometimes it's like Perry isn't even speaking english, no wait, speaking english but just tossing out random words...
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:41 PM (m6OUa)
I thought this guy was supposed to be a good debater? Did he leave his nuts (and his brain) in Texas or something?
We're fucked.
Posted by: Christina Hendricks's Mighty Jugs Supports Rick Perry's Hair for President at October 11, 2011 05:42 PM (TCyyS)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:42 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:43 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:43 PM (FIv4w)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:43 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:44 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: MDH3 at October 11, 2011 05:44 PM (GKyUC)
That's a substantial improvement.
Is he going to become awesome in debates later?
Probably not.
But I think he's going to be great against Obama. Perry will never have a cult of personality around him, and he won't come across as slick. He's just the guy who knows how not to stomp all over job growth. And he's more credibly than a flip flopper.
Nothing against Cain, though. I'm not counting him out.
Posted by: Dustin at October 11, 2011 05:44 PM (fF625)
Posted by: Willy at October 11, 2011 05:45 PM (gDszm)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:45 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: CoolCzech at October 11, 2011 05:45 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 11, 2011 05:45 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:46 PM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 05:46 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 05:47 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:48 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:48 PM (FIv4w)
I am what I am, I've made my own way in life and I don't fucking need anyone. Think more folks than just me feel this way and they're missing the point.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 05:49 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 11, 2011 05:50 PM (loxcN)
That's the secret....They don't use their hands....
Posted by: TexBob at October 11, 2011 05:50 PM (FIv4w)
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 05:50 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: David, infamous sockpuppet at October 11, 2011 05:51 PM (qgm95)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 11, 2011 09:50 PM (loxcN)
why? all the stuff that Romney is saying that sounds so good to us conservatives is an act, a performance, he has no intention in the world on following thur on any of it.
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:52 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 09:50 PM (x3YFz)
Exactly.
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 05:52 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: PhilipJames at October 11, 2011 05:52 PM (G9AXq)
Posted by: RarestRX at October 11, 2011 05:53 PM (/eIgc)
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at October 11, 2011 09:51 PM (qj
yeah but did she serve in Vietnam?
Posted by: John F'n Kerry at October 11, 2011 05:53 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:53 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: jewells45, tea party terrorist at October 11, 2011 05:54 PM (Z71Vg)
Posted by: RarestRX at October 11, 2011 09:53 PM (/eIgc)
Not that great.
Posted by: Nathon Johnson at October 11, 2011 05:54 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Herman Cain at October 11, 2011 05:55 PM (I/MzF)
Posted by: 999 at October 11, 2011 05:55 PM (EL+OC)
Romney is too slick and professional - I fucking hate that.
Perry has troubles with words.
Cain will gain (even though i'm against a national sales tax, unless it replaces the income tax)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 05:56 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 05:57 PM (x3YFz)
Romney stayed the same.
Newt looked good - almost brilliant.
Santorum looked desperate
Perry was clearly swimming against the current
Bachmann came off as pissed off
Huntsman was a no show
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 05:57 PM (jx2j9)
Gingrich but it doesn't make any difference with him.
Romney and Cain after that. They both held their own, no clear winner between them. I think Cain has potential make this an interesting battle between the two.
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 05:58 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at October 11, 2011 05:58 PM (vahvH)
Cain will take a hit, 9-9-9 sounding more silly. Greenspan as his prefered Fed chair? WTF bro
Perry was finally coherent but got less time and didn't hit home runs.
Romney made me start leaning towards him. Might be time to join the dark side.
Bachmann was doing well until she went the "9-9-9 is 6-6-6" route
Gingrich was awesome as always
Huntsman still a dick
Santorum still has a stick up his ass
Paul still a nut
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 05:59 PM (HhCkU)
Posted by: Barbarian at October 11, 2011 06:00 PM (EL+OC)
Cain will gain (even though i'm against a national sales tax, unless it replaces the income tax)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 09:56 PM (m6OUa
It absolutely will replace the 15% income tax plus capital gains I wonder if it includes gasoline tax and the many hidden taxes we don't even know of.
Posted by: Krazy Kat at October 11, 2011 06:00 PM (I/MzF)
Romney is too slick and professional - I fucking hate that.
Perry has troubles with words.
Cain will gain (even though i'm against a national sales tax, unless it replaces the income tax)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 09:56 PM (m6OUa)
It does. 9% sales tax, 9% Business tax, 9% income tax. Fuckton less than I'm paying now, and it distributes the responsibility! No death tax, so what your dad leaves you is yours. I'm all over it.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:00 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Ace's liver at October 11, 2011 06:00 PM (1+XRG)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 06:00 PM (JuHsj)
Perry is just a tad less retarded then Cain.
And barbarian is slightly more retarded than Bamster.
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 06:01 PM (/ej8I)
Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at October 11, 2011 06:01 PM (ACkhT)
Bachman - pfffft
Insanetorum - creepy dude
Paul - do I even need to say something
Newt - old shoe with a few zingers, but go home already
Huntsman - mama mia
Romney - giving slick willy a run for his money
Perry - a has been that never was
Cain - can only gain
Posted by: Ma Bell at October 11, 2011 06:01 PM (uVuwp)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 11, 2011 06:02 PM (ZDUD4)
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:03 PM (x3YFz)
It was the best debate so far.
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 11, 2011 10:02 PM (ZDUD4)
I think the field unting to fight the moderators' total bs helped. I didn't know those 3 were also running cause they sure looked like they wanted to debate them
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (HhCkU)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (GZitp)
It does. 9% sales tax, 9%
Business tax, 9% income tax. Fuckton less than I'm paying now, and it
distributes the responsibility! No death tax, so what your dad leaves
you is yours. I'm all over it.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 10:00 PM (x3YFz)
PLUS the 49% nonpayers have skin in the game, even Rick Perrys border hoppers pay taxes under Cains 999 plan I'm in too. All in!
Posted by: Concealed Kerry or Submit at October 11, 2011 10:03 PM (tHnoW)
Amen, brother.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (Y4K1q)
Actually, nearly everyone looked good tonight. Gingrich was on fire, RonPaul!'s crazy was dialed down to a minimum, and even Bachmann looked decent for the most part (except for her bitchy "Rick Perry supported Al Gore" swipe which has long since been explained and which Perry effectively refuted). She hit one out of the park when she explained what was wrong with Cain's 9-9-9 plan, which is hopelessly misguided and unrealistic. Cain himself was strong.
Perry's just about done. For most of this thing he looked like he didn't want to be there and "more energy" was his answer to nearly every question, to the point it became a laugh line. Maybe his worst moment was when he was offered the chance to explain his economic plan and declined to do so, instead saying "I'll roll it out in the next few days, but not here." Well, we WANT to hear about it here, Rick; that's what this whole thing is FOR. Romney and Cain had a back-and-forth about "complexity", but at least they were hashing it out over each other's specific policy proposals. Perry's still coasting on generalities about Texas and is just way, way out of his depth. It's no fun watching him implode, but that's what's happening and it would take a miracle at this point for him to reverse course.
Romney/Cain.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (qHVJJ)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (JuHsj)
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:04 PM (HhCkU)
Posted by: museisluse at October 11, 2011 06:05 PM (4Lj43)
Cain will take a hit, 9-9-9 sounding more silly. Greenspan as his prefered Fed chair? WTF bro
Perry was finally coherent but got less time and didn't hit home runs.
Romney made me start leaning towards him. Might be time to join the dark side.
Bachmann was doing well until she went the "9-9-9 is 6-6-6" route
Gingrich was awesome as always
Huntsman still a dick
Santorum still has a stick up his ass
Paul still a nut
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 09:59 PM (HhCkU)
Excellent analysis. And good job on your post #.
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 06:05 PM (ze29X)
Perry is just a tad less retarded then Cain.
And barbarian is slightly more retarded than Bamster.
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 10:01 PM (/ej8I)
your implications (both of you) lead me to believe you're fucking hippie shitbags.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:05 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 10:04 PM (qHVJJ)
so War will you join me in coming to the darkside and joining Team Romney as we get branded RINOs by everyone on the blog?
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:06 PM (HhCkU)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 06:06 PM (ucs8Y)
Yeah, its funny and cute, but it really looks retarded after a while.
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 10:04 PM (JuHsj)
explain why it's bad ("retarded" to use your word).
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:07 PM (x3YFz)
Cain has to move beyond the 9-9-9 plan. He looks like a one trick pony that can only pounbd his hoof to one addition problem.
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:07 PM (Y4K1q)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 10:05 PM (ze29X)
HOLY SHIT
I just noticed that "666"
Maybe that's why i'm looking harder at Romney now, heh
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:07 PM (HhCkU)
Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 11, 2011 06:08 PM (0DGtF)
I was always over on the Dark Side.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:08 PM (qHVJJ)
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at October 11, 2011 10:07 PM (qjUnn)
it's called motivation to not be a shitbag your whole life.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:09 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:10 PM (Y4K1q)
Romney is too slick and professional - I fucking hate that.
Perry has troubles with words.
Cain will gain (even though i'm against a national sales tax, unless it replaces the income tax)
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 09:56 PM (m6OUa)
It does. 9% sales tax, 9% Business tax, 9% income tax. Fuckton less than I'm paying now, and it distributes the responsibility! No death tax, so what your dad leaves you is yours. I'm all over it.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 10:00 PM (x3YFz)
respectfully, it does add a national sales tax on top of the income tax, it's right there, sure, it starts at 9% - the income tax started at like 5%
it didn't stay there and a national sales tax won't stay at 9%
remember, one congress may not bind another, once congress passes it, it's their law and not Herman Cain's any longer.
Posted by: shoey at October 11, 2011 06:10 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 10:08 PM (qHVJJ
you sly Devil you
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:10 PM (HhCkU)
Cain has to move beyond the 9-9-9 plan. He looks like a one trick pony that can only pounbd his hoof to one addition problem.
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 10:07 PM (Y4K1q)
Or. you're oversimplifying. I'll opt for that.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:10 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Herman Cain live version of the White Album at October 11, 2011 06:11 PM (9Q1TK)
I was always over on the Dark Side.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 10:08 PM (qHVJJ)
hey undead war between your ass and john denver's penis... I haven't called you a pole smoking douchebag pile of whale shit in a steaming box made of fail yet today, have I? Well, there you go fucker.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:12 PM (x3YFz)
cain vp
romney, ambassador to france
perry, head of epa
bachman head of human health services
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 06:13 PM (h+qn8)
I wasn't that impressed with Romney. Yes, he was cool under fire and he was commanding and eloquent in speech, but the content and real jist of what he had to say wasn't that heartening. He came of wonkish and buried his arguments in minutiae. Cain's question about how transparent his plan was when compared to Romney's complex plan was apt.
Perry was surprisingly almost equally wonkish as Romney, although his delivery was rougher. He did display a policy command with regard to his own record that was strangely absent before, yet tonight he was ticking off close details of his experience as governor.
Newt was great during the first half, then almost ignored during the second half.
Cain was pummelled in the live-blog for his focus on 999. That's actually a plus for him, though. His seemingly simple attack is actually quite smart. His pick of Alan Greenspan as a model Fed Chairman was strange, tho. My have fortunes turned for "The Maestro". 15 years ago no financial argument could be right if Greenspan opposed it. Nowadays the guy's an albatross.
Ron Paul was quick and effective at hitting Cain for his answer on this (with an assist from the "moderators"). Cain did surprisingly well at rebuffing Paul's attack, however.
Santorum did very well, put it is perhaps too late for him.
Bachman's greatest moment was when Romney treated her as a peer with his question during the candidate-inter-question round. Unfortunately, that was also the greatest moment for Romney. He was jujitsu artist on that move.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:13 PM (So+7G)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith BABY! at October 11, 2011 06:13 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Jay at October 11, 2011 06:13 PM (KaJBC)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 06:14 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 10:09 PM (x3YFz)
You're doing it wrong.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:14 PM (qHVJJ)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 11, 2011 06:14 PM (loxcN)
You're a world-class asshole.
Have a great night!
Posted by: lu at October 11, 2011 06:14 PM (9Q1TK)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 11, 2011 06:14 PM (ZDUD4)
If it comes down to Cain or Romney. I'm for Cain and the national sales tax as long as it replaces the IRS.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 06:15 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at October 11, 2011 06:15 PM (qpKJT)
Stop with the Cain VP. We need to press Rubio as VP to assure a 2012 victory... regardless of who heads the ticket.
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:15 PM (Y4K1q)
your implications (both of you) lead me to believe you're fucking hippie shitbags.
What implications would those be? I may be a shitbag, but the hippie part really hurt. You can do better than that neighbor.
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 06:15 PM (/ej8I)
You're a world-class asshole.
Have a great night!
Posted by: lu at October 11, 2011 10:14 PM (9Q1TK)
At least I'm good an something, mr/mrs 2 letter name. get some more letters!
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:15 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 06:16 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: Peaches at October 11, 2011 06:16 PM (/ybwc)
Try and work that message in, in between American Idol, the Kardashians and Cake boss.
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at October 11, 2011 10:14 PM (qjUnn)
bro Cake Boss is awesome
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:16 PM (HhCkU)
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 06:17 PM (h+qn8)
JOIN US....
JOIN US....
JOIN US....
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 11, 2011 06:17 PM (hIWe1)
your implications (both of you) lead me to believe you're fucking hippie shitbags.
What implications would those be? I may be a shitbag, but the hippie part really hurt. You can do better than that neighbor.
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 10:15 PM (/ej8I)
ok the hippie part was uncalled for. I understand it's worse than the shitbag part. I often cross the line... I apologize.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:17 PM (x3YFz)
Mitt is done courting. He courted Christie.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 06:18 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 06:18 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 11, 2011 06:19 PM (Sh42X)
I don't think Rubio would ever, and I mean EVER, go there. He's too smart and Mittens is just too slick and not even remotely believable. Please, guys, don't fall for the Mitt-schtick. He's not the one.
Posted by: Peaches at October 11, 2011 06:19 PM (/ybwc)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 11, 2011 06:19 PM (ZDUD4)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 11, 2011 10:18 PM (jx2j9)
Christie would never take a VP spot
I heard rumors of a Scott Walker endorsment for Romney, that would be the 1st shocking endorsment her gets and one Romney would love to have
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:19 PM (HhCkU)
You're a world-class asshole.
Have a great night!
Posted by: lu at October 11, 2011 10:14 PM (9Q1TK)
Flattery will get you everywhere, 2-letter name person. Warming my little heart, you are.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:20 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: Beautiful Outlaw ePub at October 11, 2011 06:20 PM (0FIQt)
Damn lu, your rough and tuff.
That's ok T-9, I got your back. I like my wolves in wolves clothing.
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 11, 2011 10:19 PM (ZDUD4)
I like lu's fire. I'm way past being able to be offended, so I just take that as someone speaking from the heart and I respect that.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:21 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 06:22 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 11, 2011 06:22 PM (ZDUD4)
Sorrry, Romneycare. Need anyone say anymore?
Romneycare.
Again, Romneycare.
It is hard to convince me that a man has the instincts to be a good President of the United States when his greatest achievment is: Romneycare.
Again, Romneycare.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:23 PM (So+7G)
I believe so. It's therefore going to be portrayed as compounding a regressive tax on the poor. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, but you can bet the committee to reelect the SCOAMF is already writing commercials about it should Cain get nominated.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 11, 2011 06:23 PM (0DGtF)
Um...you're not serious, are you? Half of Rubio's Senate staff is composed of former Romney guys. They're friends. If Romney asks him, he's going to say yes.
But you know what? I have this crazy weird idea that Romney might do something totally left-field and select, as his running mate...Jim DeMint.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 11, 2011 06:23 PM (hIWe1)
and if he knows he done wrong he does apologise , ok not a humble apology,
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 06:24 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at October 11, 2011 06:24 PM (4sQwu)
Well, I like wonkish from my presidential candidates.... it suggests to me they know what they're talking about. Regardless of what Cain was trying to suggest tonight, governing IS a complex matter and Romney's focus on minutiae suggests an understanding and command of the myriad issues he'll be faced with as president.
Cain's plan, on the other hand, is very simple and transparent -- and also a bad, unworkable idea. In a past debate he said there was "no chance" of the rates in his 9-9-9 plan being raised by a future Congress to 15-15-15 or 20-20-20, but has never explained why (of course the rates would be raised), and I keep wondering whether he even understands that it is impossible to get rid of the personal income tax without a Constitutional amendment (which has zero chance of passing through Congress). Bachmann gave an excellent explanation of how the government would abuse the new revenue stream of a national sales tax, which Cain himself seemed at a loss to respond to.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:25 PM (qHVJJ)
But you know what? I have this crazy weird idea that Romney might do something totally left-field and select, as his running mate...Jim DeMint.
I fully expect Demint to endorse Romney like he did in 08, aren't the guys best buds?
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 06:25 PM (HhCkU)
[has anyone suggested that yet? It's750 comments in, so I expect that everything has been suggested, including stuff I don't even want to imagine]
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at October 11, 2011 06:25 PM (K6bNI)
Posted by: Corona at October 11, 2011 06:26 PM (fh2Y7)
Yeah, here in LA, we just after many years got that down from 9.75% to 8.75%. The thought of buying stompy boots and shelling out another 18% to the crapweasels makes me want to hurt someone.
Posted by: Peaches at October 11, 2011 06:26 PM (/ybwc)
Posted by: baldilocks at October 11, 2011 06:26 PM (T2/zQ)
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:27 PM (Y4K1q)
Or in a teddy with leopard pumps....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at October 11, 2011 06:27 PM (K6bNI)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 11, 2011 06:28 PM (Sh42X)
Posted by: Ronster at October 11, 2011 06:28 PM (/ej8I)
Tango - can you make a point without the ridiculously hyperbolic f-bombing, over-the-top verbal sodomy ? Not the first time you've done this by my recollection.
I'm still pretty open-minded re: Cain, FWIW. You aren't helping him with this schtick.
If you've gotten too far along in the drinking game, call it a night. Otherwise, last time I checked we can disagree with each other without throwing "pole-smoker" epithets and other hyperbolic nerd-rage around.
Do you just misbehave when the banhammer's busy liveblogging ?
If Ace is remotely consistent on his ban policy, your bullshit tonight should be smacked down hard. Not calling for a ban but you seriously need a fucking time-out.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at October 11, 2011 06:28 PM (ozabH)
The poor need to pay more, particularly the poor of other countries who are here sponging off of our legendary generosity and sending all those fuckin' remittances out of the U.S. while they get their free healthcare and education and rental assistance and, yes, incarceration. Yeah, I said it. Plus, it's my money running through their useless hands, so what the fuck.
Posted by: Peaches at October 11, 2011 06:30 PM (/ybwc)
War Between the States, don't you recall Cain's three deterents to the 999 expansion that he mentioned in the debate tonight? And the 999 plan is not contingent on banning the income tax (in fact the income tax is one of the '9's), so I don't know what your beef is.
Wonkishness is no indicator that the speaker knows what he's talking about. More often than not, it is an indicator that he's trying to snow you.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:30 PM (So+7G)
they did well.
cheerleading Rah Rah rah!
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 06:30 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Berserker at October 11, 2011 06:31 PM (FMbng)
Sadly- the reason incomes taxes are chosen by governments is that they appear hidden as they are withheld from paychecks. Income earns 'expect' a fraction of what they earn each week to be taken. BUT sales taxes are a REAL burden each day. Paying 20% taxes on a $20,000 car purchase is a true gut check- and more likely to be rejected by voters across all income levels.
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:33 PM (Y4K1q)
Perry did fine tonight and kept his focus where it belonged. 1) Balanced budget amendment. 2) His support of energy development is the key to everything, along with keeping government limited. Re natural energy resources. No society ever has been or ever can be affluent without having and developing its own natural energy resources. We are blessed with these amazing new energy discoveries and new technologies if we can peel the gnarly marxist fingers off the go button. Perry will do that and entrepreneurs will take over. 3) Whatever tasks government undertakes -- because people want government to help solve a problem -- is best done, for the most part, on the more limited, state basis. Perry (and Texans) have kept goverment about as limited as you will find in any state. 4) We don't need "statist lreadership", 59 pages of plans or 59 points or 7 pillars, or even 9-9-9; we need the President to trust us and get government out of the way.
Most of the candidates did a good job of educating the electorate (except touting that financial-bubble-enhancer Alan Greenspan), that percentage of it who had access to Bloomberg. All moderators should be cancelled.
Posted by: pyromancer76 at October 11, 2011 06:34 PM (i0aYq)
I accept a federalist rationale for Romneycare (Massachusetts is perfectly free to fuck up its own health care system if that's what its citizens want), and his argument for waivers-on-day-one as a stopgap measure against ObamaCare until a repeal bill can get to his desk makes sense, but when he spoke about "leadership" my question was as president, will you take a leadership role in getting that repeal bill through Congress? Because that's what must happen if ObamaCare is to be killed.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:35 PM (qHVJJ)
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:35 PM (So+7G)
and if he knows he done wrong he does apologise , ok not a humble apology,
Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 10:24 PM (h+qn
Hey! I'm always the first to admit you thought I was wrong! 
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 06:38 PM (x3YFz)
Posted by: benson at October 11, 2011 06:38 PM (Y4K1q)
Yes, I agree with Romney that Mass. ought to be able to screw up its health care system if it wants. Problem is: Mass did exactly that. And Mitt was the guy leading the way!
He demonstrates good little 'r' republican principles when he defends Romneycare. Unfortunately he demonstrated disastrous leadership when executing Romneycare.
Mitt Romney: Talks like a 'r'epublican. Governed like a Central Planner.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:39 PM (So+7G)
After a value added tax, prices will drop? With a sales tax on there too?
Hmm.
I doubt it. Remember, most of these goods are made in China anyway. The income tax didn't affect them hugely (sure, some, to retail them, but not entirely).
"I accept a federalist rationale for Romneycare"
Why? It fucked up MA's health care and it lost billions. I can accept that it's legal, but federalism is not a rationale for anything. It's just a point that it's constitutional to do some yet unacceptable things.
Posted by: Dustin at October 11, 2011 06:39 PM (fF625)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 10:35 PM (qHVJJ)"
Agreed. What we need is leadership. With the ability to take a stand that isn't always easy to take.
Posted by: Dustin at October 11, 2011 06:40 PM (fF625)
Posted by: Dave at October 11, 2011 06:43 PM (hnoTN)
Dustin, I'm in agreement with you about the badness of a VAT. So, what does 999 have to do with a VAT?
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:43 PM (So+7G)
The more I think about the 9% sales tax, the more I think it's not such a great idea. Some good points have been made on the board on what it will do to consumption.
For the most part, when I've heard a national sales tax proposed in the past, it's been couple with the complete elimination of the national income tax. One of it's primary goals was the elimination of the IRS (which certainly wouldn't break my heart).
Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 11, 2011 06:45 PM (0DGtF)
Cain has said clearly that the intended next step in the 9-9-9 plan would be the repeal of the personal income tax altogether. But again, that would require a constitutional amendment and there is no chance at all of ANY kind of amendment successfully passing Congress in today's climate, let alone one depriving Washington of an avenue of taxation. So, what would we be left with? A plan that would pile an extra level of taxation on top of the income tax in perpetuity. And there is nothing to stop any future Congress from using the framework of 9-9-9 to raise the rates as high as they want. If we're ever in another situation like 2009-11 in which we have a Democrat president with large majorities in both houses, what do you think is going to happen?
Wonkishness is no indicator that the speaker knows what he's talking about. More often than not, it is an indicator that he's trying to snow you.
That's true. And folksy simplicity from a politician is usually an indicator of the same thing. You have to go with your gut, because you can't really trust any of them.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:46 PM (qHVJJ)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 06:48 PM (JuHsj)
Reggie, Cain's 999 proposal is just the first step in an announced program to eliminate the need for the income tax system.
I sound through my last several posts like I'm a Cain supporter. But I'm uncommitted at this point.
My comments are meant to clear up misconceptions/misinformation.
Frankly, I'm leaning toward Newt.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:49 PM (So+7G)
Posted by: Max Power at October 11, 2011 06:49 PM (q177U)
They aren't going to get rid of the fucking income tax either. Stop tilting at fucking windmills.
Fucking national sales tax AND a fucking income tax.
Posted by: Max Power at October 11, 2011 06:52 PM (q177U)
Perry was in the debate tonight?
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 11, 2011 06:53 PM (ze29X)
VAT taxes and sales taxes are not the same at all. VAT taxes are value-added-taxes, which means some regulator has got to assign how much value each actor adds each step of the way. It also allows him to play favorites by determining which "values" are greater than others. It also punishes any kind of real production, because supply chains get pummeled by a VAT.
The sales tax involves no bureaucrat. Prices are determined by buyer and seller, with foreknowledge of a figured in pound of flesh. Sales taxes are far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far better than VAT's.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 11, 2011 06:53 PM (So+7G)
638 I was born a poor black child.
Posted by: Nathon Johnson at October 11, 2011 09:51 PM (GZitp)
I thought your name was Navin.
Posted by: elliot m at October 11, 2011 06:54 PM (zPich)
Posted by: lowandslow at October 11, 2011 06:59 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 07:01 PM (ucs8Y)
Reggie, Cain's 999 proposal is just the first step in an announced program to eliminate the need for the income tax system.
Yes, it might eliminate a "need" technically for a national income tax, but unless that leads to a Constitutional Amendment eliminating the income tax, it will stay with us. It might also be increased from 9%, while the sales tax could be left in place at the same time. Like Santorum mumbled to Cain, "you won't be President forever". What you could end up doing is nothing but establishing another avenue by which to tax people.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 11, 2011 07:07 PM (0DGtF)
Sure -- and it's up to the people of MA to decide that they want to do that to themselves.
Romney's defense of MassCare has been murky and evasive at best. But he's staked out a pretty firm position on ObamaCare -- the people of America don't want it, it hurts the country, and I'll repeal it. And in the end I don't care why Romney will repeal ObamaCare, just so long as he does it.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 07:08 PM (qHVJJ)
I don't really care anymore if Newt sat on a couch with Pelosi. I don't even care if he was a bad husband. Not to put too fine a point on it, but most men are. (Joke, sort of) He is smart, and we need someone smart to fix things. He really could hit the ground running. He could talk rings around Obama in the debates.
I was around in 1994 and I watched C-SPAN all the time. He was impressive. He rallied the troops. He's not perfect, but the pickings are pretty slim at this point, in my opinion. If we take back the Senate, keep the House, I think we could accomplish quite a bit in the next four years.
I just had to get that out. Thanks.
Posted by: Just someone throwing crap at the wall at October 11, 2011 07:08 PM (3AnLn)
Posted by: rik at October 11, 2011 07:12 PM (ih+6i)
Because we love to shoot ourselves in the foot and find petty reasons to trash our candidates. We're gonna hand this to Romney because we're, well, morons.
Posted by: Paul Zummo at October 11, 2011 07:15 PM (AcrIN)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 07:16 PM (JuHsj)
Second, it just allows him to demonstrate his control of the subject, his debate skills and intellectual dexterity.
Wow, this just might be the dumbest rationalization I've ever heard. Hey, vote for the guy who implemented the same thing in his own state because he understands the issue. Yeah, that makes complete sense. Let's nominate Ron Paul to oversee the Defense Dept while we're at it because it's an issue he has mastery of.
Posted by: Paul Zummo at October 11, 2011 07:19 PM (AcrIN)
Look, all kidding aside, only 2 people in that debate have the IQ both to shred Obama in debate and to handle the challenges the next president will be faced with - selling the public (communication ability), taking on the media vipers, and dealing with a myriad of issues, domestic and foreign.
It's Newt or Romney. The others are simply not smart enough for this age, where everything is under a microscope.
Sorry, Herman is not in their league intellectually. Alan Greenspan? You have to be an idiot to offer up that softball to a power hitter.
So if it came down to Romney or Newt, whom would you pick?
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 07:21 PM (7T+Mz)
Actually, it's an issue that he's a complete dumbfuck on. Bad analogy.
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 07:22 PM (7T+Mz)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 07:23 PM (ucs8Y)
Chyna as in the wrestler pornstar?
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Ban Curious) at October 11, 2011 10:02 PM (HhCkU)
So I've heard
Posted by: Red Shirt at October 11, 2011 07:26 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 07:29 PM (JuHsj)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 07:31 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 07:31 PM (JuHsj)
Look, all kidding aside, only 2 people in that debate have the IQ both to shred Obama in debate and to handle the challenges the next president will be faced with - selling the public (communication ability), taking on the media vipers, and dealing with a myriad of issues, domestic and foreign.
It's Newt or Romney. The others are simply not smart enough for this age, where everything is under a microscope.
Sorry, Herman is not in their league intellectually. Alan Greenspan? You have to be an idiot to offer up that softball to a power hitter.
So if it came down to Romney or Newt, whom would you pick?
I do not like Romney and I don't trust him. I don't even know if I could hold my nose and vote for him, except in the end I would because I realize we can not last another four years with the asshole in the office now. I can compartmentalize Newt's bad points because I don't see how they would affect him doing his job as President.
Posted by: Just someone throwing crap at the wall at October 11, 2011 07:31 PM (3AnLn)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 11:23 PM (ucs8Y)
Ya know, I heard somebody talking about this the other day (I think it was the Rovemaster). They thought Cain's plan would be unconstitutional based on states' rights and their constitutions. A federal sales tax would be too incroaching, interferring with states to manage or control their own economies.
Posted by: The Ghost of Kim Novak at October 11, 2011 07:36 PM (8DdAv)
I hate RomneyCare so much, I just assume the whole country be subject to ObamaCare.
Oh, I get it, you're one of the electability guys who thinks Mitt Romney is the only one who can beat the one. Whatever.
Posted by: Paul Zummo at October 11, 2011 07:36 PM (AcrIN)
I skipped the suckage. Anyone want to fill me in?
Just looked at some quick reax and it looks like Perry sucked hard, Cain endorsed Greenspan, and Romney was his usual big government managed capitalism self.
Is that right? Anything I missed? Any one that isn't a 100-watt dimbulb that I could concievably support?
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 07:39 PM (Aw0+T)
I agree with you - he does have a better shot (actually, isn't it one cancer-stricken wife?)
But the real issue isn't who has a better shot - the real issue is whether the second in that respect can get elected anyway - in other words, if things are bad enough, will his personal flaws be overlooked?
If that's the case, whom would you rather see as president?
I get the sense that this is the real decision facing all of us, as I do not see Cain prevailing over Romney. If his supporters go to the anti-Romney candidate, Newt has an outside chance at a nomination.
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 07:43 PM (7T+Mz)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 07:43 PM (ucs8Y)
Call me crazy but I think the guy who didn't abandon two cancer stricken wives has a better shot at winning the general than the guy who did.
I have worked with lawyers and been in sales my entire working life. I have worked with some real assholes. Something I have found to be true is that as long as their production is high, there is nothing that can't be overlooked. I don't think the fact that someone stayed married to the same person for a long time is the main quality we need in a president right now.
Posted by: Just someone throwing crap at the wall at October 11, 2011 07:51 PM (3AnLn)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 07:52 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 07:53 PM (Aw0+T)
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 07:55 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 07:59 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 08:03 PM (ucs8Y)
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:07 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: Chris in SA at October 11, 2011 08:15 PM (2jHHj)
This is very true. Hate his ideology all you want, but the guy has become a debating stud over the last 6 years.
He is ridiculously intelligent and knowledgeable and has finally polished it all up.
Posted by: Small Point at October 11, 2011 08:17 PM (YW11a)
Posted by: Jehu at October 11, 2011 08:20 PM (xUGKc)
Posted by: cherry π at October 11, 2011 08:21 PM (OhYCU)
Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at October 11, 2011 08:24 PM (5Wl/f)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 08:42 PM (ucs8Y)
To genuinely evaluate what Romney would do as president we have to look beyond the suspicions he so naturally generates.
What's his goal in becoming president? In order to understand his goal, we have to understand his identity. Who is he?
I would posit that he is what Obama purported to be: a savior. A turnaround guy. That's what he is, at his core. That's his resume. He wants to turnaround America, make it strong again.
Probably 75 to 80% of that will be as hardcore conservative as we want. It's the other 20% that's shaky. (On the other hand, none of the leading contenders will be 100% conservative while in the WH. Bet on it.)
But I do not doubt that his goal is saving the US, and the economy comes first and foremost. Since failure to repeal Obamacare would hinder this, he has no choice but to do so. He is a one-termer if he doesn't, a failure if he doesn't.
He has to repeal Obamacare. Just as politics demanded Romneycare in Mass., political strategy demand repeal of Obamacare in the WH.
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 08:42 PM (7T+Mz)
Just like a good used car saleman. I am done with Romney and his staff. They are sleek like the left. If you like big government, he is the guy for you.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:43 PM (/LaDd)
---
No he can make some minimal changes and play the establishment verbal game. His record indicates that he would take a minimalist approach to Obamacare. Christie is an example of another Souter in the waiting.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:46 PM (/LaDd)
Cain is the Right Wing Obama. Charismatic, Black (with the Morgan Freeman "magical Black guy redeeming Racist White America" baggage) and with an unworkable plan. The whole 999 thing is like ObamaCare when the economy was reeling.
Romney's endorsed Reagan-esque military spending, particularly naval and aviation, to jump-start the economy. It is no panacea, but Keynesian stuff that actually works (because it immediately soaks up lots of citizen only employment, basically). Further, Romney is the only major candidate pushing lots of oil drilling here in the US as a long term employment solution. America's problems will not be solved by re-arranging the tax code. It takes basic productivity advantages against China and Mexico (cheap energy to beat cheap labor) to make that happen. Romney is the only serious guy to make that happen. Newt, Cain, Perry, are all jokes when it comes to moving lots of Dems both in Congress ... and in the Bureaucracy. Romney had to deal with deeply embedded Dems in MA's bureaucracy, to get anything done. Bush's flaw was as a TX Governor he never had to deal with constant, grinding attrition warfare in the bureaucracy. So he could not handle it.
I'm not in love with Romney. I don't have to be, as a free man I'm not looking for a King by a leader for four years. Romney stands the best chance of handling a hostile, liberal press, convincing swing (and particularly FEMALE) voters (because he's handsome and kind of phony, women dig that see Obama), and once elected navigating and purging the scum Obama embedded, not to mention Clinton.
It will come down to, who will give you a job, or make you more money in your current job, in 2012? Obama or the Republican? Cain's a non-starter because of the 999 deal, Perry will give illegals a job, Newt will wander off into his own head, and only Romney comes up positive there (military spending, oil drilling).
Posted by: whiskey at October 11, 2011 08:47 PM (L03mw)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2011 08:48 PM (ucs8Y)
And, as I said, that's a way of looking at it through the prism of suspicions he naturally generates - but it makes no sense whatsover if his goal is to either save the US economy or get reelected. Because - just as Obama - he would not be insulated from the consequences of his inaction, and would go down as an epic fail one-term president, whose core agenda had no chance of success because he wouldn't repeal Obamacare.
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 08:50 PM (7T+Mz)
Sorry, Romney care is 50% already. On immigration, it is a wash between Romney and Perry. That 's another 30%. According to Coulter, that is even more important than Romneycare. Christie, his big supporter, is an example of the problem with the court. WE don't want another Souter. His staff and his moderate base indicate that this is a real risk also. Given their comfort level with leftist demagoguery in the primary, I wouldn't put this past them.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:50 PM (/LaDd)
------
He can make minimal changes to Obamacare. He will probably keep Bush tax cuts, remove other regulations to allow the economy to turn around to some extent. But I doubt that he would make the fundamental change of direction we need. He is the least optimal one we have and it is truly a wasted opportunity.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:53 PM (/LaDd)
That's a good question. I think all these guys really have one thing in mind - punt this fucker to the states, or some variation of that, because it's a political no-win situation.
I don't think Romney is a big government guy - he's going to be conservative as long as that's where the public is. Don't count on him if the weather changes.
But he isn't going to be a big government guy if that flies in the face of public sentiment. Especially with Congressional checks and balances.
So yeah, he's somewhat of a weathervane. In Massachusetts that was "big government solutions."
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 08:57 PM (7T+Mz)
It does. 9% sales tax, 9%
Business tax, 9% income tax. Fuckton less than I'm paying now, and it
distributes the responsibility! No death tax, so what your dad leaves
you is yours. I'm all over it.
Posted by: tangonine at October 11, 2011 10:00 PM (x3YFz)
If you are paying net 27% in federal taxes, you're doing something wrong.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 11, 2011 08:57 PM (9Uxl0)
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:57 PM (/LaDd)
-------
This is ridiculous. You don't have to pay payroll tax anymore. That 's a total 15% in itself.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:58 PM (/LaDd)
---
But he will be a minimalist just as the Republican leaders in Congress now! That 's a fact.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 08:59 PM (/LaDd)
--
Yup, it wasn't forced on him by the dem congress in MA. He took the initiative himself.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:00 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: LAI at October 12, 2011 12:58 AM (/LaDd)
The average taxpayer pays about net 8% income tax, plus 7% payroll tax, plus the imputed 7% employer side payroll tax. That makes 22-23%. Run the numbers, and you will see that Cain's plan will cost you more.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 11, 2011 09:03 PM (9Uxl0)
Posted by: JewishOdysseus at October 11, 2011 09:04 PM (Z7ypG)
Actually, once you get past the gimmicky campaign stuff (like Cain), there probably won't be an ounce worth of difference between what any of these guys do on many issues.
Less regulations? Check. More drilling? Check. Some type of tax reform, check.
The issue, as you mention, is who can get it done.
But you're wrong - both Romney and Gingrich can get a lot of it done, although Romney might have more staying power in that regard.
Romney on judges (and culture issues in general) of course worries me a great deal, which is why I'm seriously considering Newt instead. But I think he would repeal Obamacare out of necessity, both policy and political.
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 09:06 PM (7T+Mz)
---
For the poor, if you buy used cars for example, then you don't have to pay sale tax according to Cain. People who can afford to buy new and more expensive cars usually pay more that 8% tax rate. So it is a wash. But transparency is the big point here. I want people to see their taxes immediately.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:07 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: LAI at October 12, 2011 01:07 AM (/LaDd)
Me too, but I would rather have a straight consumption tax, or a straight flat income tax, but at lower rates than Cain suggests. I don't like the idea of giving congress two revenue streams, so the current structure would have to be repealed first.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 11, 2011 09:09 PM (9Uxl0)
---
It depends on what "repealing" mean. He will be a minimalist given the people around him. Even Christie didn't join the lawsuit to stop Obamacare. That 's a fact. The court is a huge issue. Honesly, I missed Palin already. I went with Perry, who is a bust so far. So I will go with my guts this time and scrap this electability ploy. The Rep establishment is either stupid and more comfortable with left that they let out. Just look at their debate arrangement. I am tired of carrying water for them over and over again.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:14 PM (/LaDd)
--
What will you replace it with? At least Cain 's idea is a reasonable start.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:15 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:17 PM (/LaDd)
Actually, Romney on judges is one of the few places where I'm not worried in the slightest. His judicial advisor is Robert Bork, for cryin' out loud. Romney is majorly hooked into conservative legal circles...I'm pretty sure he would do a great job with judges.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 11, 2011 09:19 PM (hIWe1)
-
Again, his record in MA indicated otherwise. He appointed liberal judges, not "moderate" ones. Christie, his big supporter, appointed a judge with tie to radical islam in NJ.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:25 PM (/LaDd)
That's a comforting bit of news, I guess. I'm still not sure, I guess - judges are one of those long-term issues that best tests what a guy is made of.
"But he will be a minimalist just as the Republican leaders in Congress now! That 's a fact."
Well, it doesn't look like they're going anywhere, so the least conservative branch will be the bottleneck anyway. (A comforting thought, I'm sure.)
But I think the more salient issue isn't how he governed in Massachusetts, but rather how he campaigned and governed in Massachusetts. If he governed as he campaigned, I would be rather hopeful that the same would be true if he became president. Can anyone better informed than I weigh in on that?
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 09:28 PM (7T+Mz)
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:29 PM (/LaDd)
From 2005, the heart of his governorship, Romney's appointments tilted left.
Yet conservatives are lining up behind this guy? His one power to move Mass to the right a bit and he didn't.
And we're to trust him?
UPDATE. Some of the troubling parts of the article for those claiming below "oh it's just Massachusetts".
Troubling Part #1
------------------
Romney, despite his opposition to same-sex marriage, in May selected for a district court judgeship Stephen S. Abany, a former board member of the Massachusetts Lesbian and Gay Bar Association who organized the group's opposition to a 1999 bill to outlaw same-sex marriage. Just two days before the nomination, Romney was lamenting the liberal tilt of the state's bench, telling Fox News that ''our courts have a record here in Massachusetts, don't they, of being a little blue and being Kerry-like."
Talk about doing one thing and saying another.
Troubling Part #2
-----------------
Another Romney choice for the bench is Marianne C. Hinkle, a registered
Democrat who worked as an aide to Governor Michael S. Dukakis in the
late 1970s and prosecuted John C. Salvi III in the 1994 Brookline
abortion clinic shootings. Hinkle, in her application for the bench,
describes herself as a longtime active member of Dignity/USA, a group
that advocates for expanded gay rights in the Catholic Church and
society generally.
Great. Nice moderate choice there, Mitty.
Troubling Part #3
-----------------
Romney, asked if he has engaged in any horse-trading with Democratic
politicians, said: ''So far I have not ever given any weight whatsoever
to whether I think someone can make it through the Governor's Council. I
send them individuals who I feel are highly qualified and have the
right judicial temperament related to crime and punishment."
I was about to give him some leniency due to the makeup of the council, but he says it does not matter. He only cared about crime, but not other judicial issues? Wow.
Now, there were some good appointments too, so I want to be fair. But was the Mass court system not already filled with enough liberals? I'm sure there were more "moderate" choices available that would have still made it through.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:31 PM (/LaDd)
Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2011 09:31 PM (ICwOo)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 09:33 PM (JuHsj)
Posted by: Winning at October 11, 2011 09:35 PM (JuHsj)
---
The MAJOR concern is that his tax proposal won't produce enough revenue to keep it neutral. If this one is implemented, the tax code is so simple that you can drastically reduce the IRS! The working poor doesn't have to pay payroll taxes anymore. If you are so afraid to talk about SS or reforming the tax code. Then so be it.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:35 PM (/LaDd)
Yup, it was forced on him by the liberals in MA. The same lousy excuse.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:37 PM (/LaDd)
“Of the 36 people Romney named to be judges or clerk magistrates, 23 are either registered Democrats or unenrolled voters who have made multiple contributions to Democratic politicians or who voted in Democratic primaries, state and local records show. In all, he has nominated nine registered Republicans, 13 unenrolled voters, and 14 registered Democrats.”
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:39 PM (/LaDd)
The Boston Globe in 2005 said the following:
Governor Mitt Romney, who touts his conservative credentials to out-of-state Republicans, has passed over GOP lawyers for three-quarters (75%) of the 36 judicial vacancies he has faced, instead tapping registered Democrats or independents – including two gay lawyers who have supported expanded same-sex rights.
Of the 36 people Romney named to be judges or clerk magistrates, 23 are either registered Democrats or unenrolled voters who have made multiple contributions to Democratic politicians or who voted in Democratic primaries, state and local records show. In all, he has nominated nine registered Republicans, 13 unenrolled voters, and 14 registered Democrats.
Posted by: LAI at October 11, 2011 09:41 PM (/LaDd)
Let me clarify that I do not hate Herman Cain. In fact, I like him. He's charismatic and enjoyable.
He also has major problems which are being overlooked for now.
He really is out of his depth, both in intellectual heft and political experience. The first would be a problem in governing (I don't think he's seriously thought about foreign policy and geopolitics a day in his life, and would be overly dependent on his advisors), the second in getting to the WH and getting major legislative reforms enacted. He strikes me as similar to the left's caricature of Bush - "intellectually incurious."
Seriously, do we really believe the campaign hype? A guy who's never presided over a county council is going to be an effective president? I think we have the Reverse Obama syndrome here (and not because of race.) Gee, if we elect someone with very little big time political experience - unicorns!
Unrealistic.
Posted by: JB at October 11, 2011 10:10 PM (7T+Mz)
I didnt watch it live, but dont get the Perry hate - Mittens came across like Bill Clinton.
I don't hate Rick Perry. I just think he was unprepared for this race and doesn't have the grand conservative bona fides originally thought by a lot of people.
His performance wasn't too bad tonight. It was better than the first three debates, but that isn't very compelling considering that the first two of those outings were bad, and the third was an unmitigated disaster.
On question after question he kept mentioning "energy". Well that's an important subject, but must it become a stock portion of every response? Also, is it possible for him to go beyond saying he'll do what he did in his state? He's not running for reelection in Texas.
And I'm sorry, but you don't enter a debate that is exclusively about the economy (your fourth debate) and still have the revelation of your economic plan three days off. If this rumor of a collaboration with Steve Forbes is true, it should have taken place months ago.
Perry should go on news programs, and I ain't talking about Sean Hannity, if he wants to reassure people that he has a command of domestic and foreign issues, because it sure doesn't look like he can accomplish that task in the debates.
As for Mitt, someone being able to speak smoothly is not a vice for a Republican. Especially with eight years of GWB fresh in people's memories, and especially considering the professional yapper he'd be facing next year.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 11, 2011 10:54 PM (0DGtF)
Posted by: BrianC at October 11, 2011 11:24 PM (aramC)
Yes, because everyone who is governor of Texas should have economic plans for the entire nation planned out weeks before they enter the presidential race.
/s
Posted by: Y-not at October 11, 2011 11:54 PM (5H6zj)
Yes, because everyone who is governor of Texas should have economic plans for the entire nation planned out weeks before they enter the presidential race.
/s
If they plan on running for President they should. You better believe it.
Don't tell me this man just started entertaining thoughts of being President just a few short weeks before announcing. He's been Governor of TX over ten years and this urge just came over him?
....and even if he did, by now he should have put something of a plan together. Maybe not a 59 point plan as detailed as Romney's, but something beyond "energy, drill, energy" & "I'll do what I did in Texas".
And if his understanding of national domestic affairs is that superficial, just imagine when he begins to be asked detailed questions about foreign affairs.
He isn't ready for this race. The debates have been key in demonstrating that.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 12, 2011 06:26 AM (b68Df)
Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top
64 queries taking 0.2823 seconds, 888 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2011 03:45 PM (fyOgS)