1 Rangle belongs in jail with the French dude.

2 I claim droit de seigneur over all Canuckistan!

3 Well, Bradshaw, it's like in the Army. The great prince issues commands, founds states, vests families with fiefs... inferior people should not be employed.

4 Steyn is right again. It is a literal new aristocracy. Consider the byzantine legions of bureaucrats with special privileges in the ancient Chinese empires. Those who say this is a soft tyranny are correct, and it is becoming less and less soft. You can't have a society run by philosopher-kings without palaces, chamberlains, and courtiers. The Republic is becoming more fictional day by day. Aristocracies have been the rule for mankind, and they continue to do so.

5

And the way you tell the true US "New Elite"... or Oligarchy Memebers, is that they ALWAYS have both a Bank, and Government, connection somewhere in their resume.

ie... Bank Board Member, and House Member..... Treasury Sec and Big Trading house employment...

Money and Politics go hand in hand... and the Bankers, who have all the money, finally evovled to the place where they no longer need to Buy Congressmen, they helped grow them from an internal banking class...

And no... its not organized, just a logical outgrowth of one power center moving in to take over another power center.

Which is why Herman Cain's having been a Chairman of a Fed Bank gives me pause...

6

Thank you for bringing this to the table for discussion, I hate class warfare but I am disgusted with this new elite class of world citizens that would take us back to past times better left in the past.

Problem is what to do about it? We have little power against an Elite that does not believe in a country's sovereignty or a persons individual rights ,not even a great respect from those they benefited from being a being a member or citizen of.

7 1 Rangle belongs in jail with the French dude. Posted by: Vic at May 22, 2011 12:36 PM (M9Ie6) In a 3-way with Strauss-Kahn ramming Barney Frank's head up Rangel's culo... and vice-versa-vice daisy-chain style.

8

Posted by: willow at May 22, 2011 12:43 PM (h+qn

The very first thing which must happen... but never will... is a Constitutional Amendment stating that Governments must follow the same laws as they impose on their citizens.

If a private person created Social Security, they would be in Jail for a Ponzi scheme.

If a normal citizen tries to create a Lottery, Jail for Gambling.

A Cop can lie to us, but we can't lie to a Cop....

 

The Second is a Constitutional Amendment stating that the US does NOT have Sovereign Immunity vs. its OWN CITIZENS.

We have no longer have any legal recourse against the people running our own government.... only the Government itself has the power to police itself currently.... and we see how well that is working...

9 Iowahawk ghost-wrote for Bernard Henry-Levi recently in case any of you missed it.

10 But if a "populist" candidate emerges who dares presume that they can be a citizen legislator w/o having gone to the right schools are at least worked their way up through the ranks its horrible, just horrible and the primary voters are throwing away the general election. (yes I'm aware some so-called populists are just slick talkers who parrot the ideas the populace is demanding without believing them, much less having lived them) but they ALL get dissed, at least until they win.

11 Where is trashcan man when you need him?

12 Digging the weekend posts from the Ace-man.  Not that Drew M. is chopped liver.

Or anything.

13 Yep, there is a reason that lenin, trotsky and the like took over the media, banking and political realms.  Having control of that trifecta gives you massive power in one country.  Doing that with similar international organizations gives you massive control in the world.

The IMF and World Bank are nothing but socialist organizations transferring wealth from American taxpayers to the rest of the world.

14 Blah, that should be "or at least worked through the (party) ranks"

15 One of Steyn's better pieces, but damn does the ocregister formatting break up his flow.

16 But the other thread was just getting fun!
_{not really}

17 I, like, qualify as aristocracy, right? 'Cause, like, I am a princess! ... Anyone got any coke?

18 Whatever the head of the IMF did or didn't do, the reaction of the French elites is most instructive. "We and the Americans do not belong to the same civilization," sniffed Jean Daniel, editor of Le Nouvel Observateur, insisting that the police should have known that Strauss-Kahn was "not like other men" and wondering why "this chambermaid was regarded as worthy and beyond any suspicion."

The French and the Americans do belong to different civilizations.
Our Constitution does not allow for title of nobility.
Besides, these French are pigs.

19

History repeats indeed.

Consider all the 'waivers' coming from the government as merely the new form of indulgences.

20 "... but I'm not sure how committed he is to it as a serious idea " Ace, seriously, how are any of the actions of the main players of socialism not literally considered actions of an Aristocracy?

21 Jail is for poor people. Being aristocracy is HAWT!

22 >>>But if a "populist" candidate emerges who dares presume that they can be a citizen legislator w/o having gone to the right schools are at least worked their way up through the ranks its horrible, just horrible and the primary voters are throwing away the general election I'm tired of this whine. One can be qualified by means other than credentialism. What you are essentially insisting on, and insisting on, and insisting on, is that the very idea of "qualification" is imaginary. You are arguing for some extreme form of dopey egalitarianism under which I cannot say that a surgeon or executive is more qualified for a job than a political gadfly who gets paid $150 once a week to appear as a fill-in guest on a barely-watched filling-the-time cable soft news show.

23 Romeo, I like those ideas, Is it possible getting anything like that through with those in power and unlikely voters to bounce them out? Re; Rangel, Pelousi. etc

24 Has the Ruling Class convinced Israel to give up the Sudetenland in exchange for Peace in Our Time yet? I mean, that move worked out brilliantly last time around, right? After all, Strauss-Kahn is a great believer in Piece in Our Time.

25 What? I am supposed to be in jail? Call my agent and see if he can get it on my calendar.

26 Hold on there ...

The Titles of Nobility Amendment (TONA) was proposed as an amendment to the United States Constitution in 1810. Upon passage of a resolution offered by U.S. Senator Philip Reed of Maryland, during the 2nd Session of the 11th Congress, TONA was submitted to the state legislatures for ratification. While the time for TONA to be ratified was not limited by the Congress, so that it is technically still capable of being ratified by the states, it has not been ratified by three-fourths of the states, and so has never become part of the Constitution.

27 What absolute twaddle.

28 Christine O'Donnell was an idiot, and further, despite being a single woman, did not have an actual job, apart from poorly-paid appearances and running for Senate three times. Do get over it.

29 You are arguing for some extreme form of dopey egalitarianism under which I cannot say that a surgeon or executive is more qualified for a job than a political gadfly who gets paid $150 once a week to appear as a fill-in guest on a barely-watched filling-the-time cable soft news show.
Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 12:55 PM (nj1bB)

WORD!

30 The IMF and World Bank are nothing but socialist organizations transferring wealth from American taxpayers to the rest of the world.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at May 22, 2011 12:52 PM (IXLvN)

seems insurmountable

The French and the Americans do belong to different civilizations.
Our Constitution does not allow for title of nobility.
Besides, these French are pigs.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy

Yet look at how our own (media elite )covered for Polanski

31 No I'm not Ace. I put COD in the gadfly column too. She basically conned the voters who wanted a real conservative. But Palin is just a gadfly? Ron Johnson didn't have any more POLITICAL experience than any other "tea party" candidates but he won so no one rags on him.

32 After all, Strauss-Kahn is a great believer in Piece in Our Time. Posted by: CoolCzech at May 22, 2011 12:57 PM (kUaEF) Heh. I get it. And I only went to Brooklyn College. (8 year plan to boot)

33 @28 Until the "running for Senate 3 times part" I thought you were talking about me! I'd just like to remind you that strong, independent, young, single, females with blogs and inexplicable paid appearances on talk shows rule! Unless you're Christine O'Donnell. She's stupid. Wanna see my boobies?

34 28 Christine O'Donnell was an idiot, and further, despite being a single woman, did not have an actual job, apart from poorly-paid appearances and running for Senate three times. Do get over it. I'd hit it. With a broomstick.

35

Yet look at how our own (media elite )covered for Polanski

More pigs

36 The analogy I made and continue to make is that Christine O'Donnell's only qualifications were 1, graduating from college, a distinction she shares with a mere 50% of the American adult population, and 2, offering her opinions publicly, not that anyone really noticed. In other words, she's as qualified for the Senate as a blogger like myself. These are not just jobs, they're honors. Politicians always say that, "Thank you for the honor of electing me to serve you..." Some of them even *mean* that. So when a great honor is going to be conferred, the public wants to know: "Why you? What have you *done* to be worthy of this honor?" Appearing as a dolt on Bill Maher's show, a dummy just there to make conservative arguments *POORLY* and look like a jackass and thereby make Bill Maher look good, is not much of a qualification, unless you think Television is the ultimate qualification, and on that score, I disagree.

37 What happened between 1100 and 1500 was that Europe increased it's arable land by half, cutting down a lotta trees and draining a lotta swamps.

The population increased significantly, despite the Non-White Plague, wages went up significantly--ad yes, a "gentry" of the top five percent and aristocracy of the top one percent was established as the governing class in hundreds of organized governments throughout Europe

They've been in charge ever since, despite all the wars and Stuff

( Hitler was such a threat because despite pandering to them he hated the gentry / aristocracy and would have eventually wiped all of them out )

38 I'd hit it.

With a broomstick.

Posted by: CoolCzech at May 22, 2011 01:03 PM (kUaEF)

You could make millions with a Pay Per View event

39 Wow. I didn't know Lex Luthor was Governor of Florida! Check out FNC.

40 "The only secure basis for oligarchy is collectivism."

41 Doesn't this just sort of go along with the Road to Serfdom? Many on the left clearly want a new aristocracy of the ivy league who are just better then the rest of us and thus deserving of controlling the rest of us simple slobs.

42 >>> But Palin is just a gadfly? Palin wasn't a gadfly, she was a governor, then she resigned to become a media personality and commentator. No, she is definitely not in Christine O'Donnell's class, well well above that. But she also is just about the least-qualified person to ever be seriously considered for President, and that was her choice. >>>Ron Johnson didn't have any more POLITICAL experience than any other "tea party" candidates but he won so no one rags on him. He was successful at his chosen occupation and not a permanent protest candidate. I hope we're not coming to the point where "authentic" is getting defined as "unaccomplished."

43 and COD was Mostly Hot--her being kinda crazy and incompetent are....secondary unless we're talking Serious Politics here. 

and no, I will never forgive Blue Hen Republicans for nominating her

( the U of Delaware are the 'Blue Hens' ; kind of like that high school in Okla which are the Henrietta Hens.  The girls teams are the Lady Hens.  Go figure )

44 These are not just jobs, they're honors. Politicians always say that, "Thank you for the honor of electing me to serve you..." Some of them even *mean* that.

And that's the problem.  Public service was intended to be a *service*, not an *honor*.

45 Posted by: Stuff George Orwell Said Vol. VI How many times do I have to tell you guys... "1984" was NOT an instruction manual!

46 Rick Scott has no hair.  He's a real conservative, willing to take on unions, teachers, libtard activists, 'jounalists', etc

You gotta problem with that?

47 But she also is just about the least-qualified person to ever be seriously considered for President

Just about.

48 Troy Aikman was a Henrietta Hen, btw.  Sure could use an Aikman now....

49
The French and American Revolutions merely blocked off one road. Those who want lives of privilege, above the law, will find a way.

50

I hope we're not coming to the point where "authentic" is getting defined as "unaccomplished."

 

I'm authentic and unaccomplished!  Now kiss the ring, bitches!

51

Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 01:10 PM (AZGON)

I think that's an Internet meme I created several years ago when I said 1984 was not intended as a how-to book on more than a few occasions in different places. 

Or great minds and whatnot. 

52 >>>And that's the problem. Public service was intended to be a *service*, not an *honor*. Says who? It's both. It is a service, but when we choose people competing to serve us, it is an honor bestowed on them. There's a limit to the power of argument, you know. You can't just argue away every inconvenient datum.

53 >>>Just about. I can't believe I walked into that. Okay, she's the second-most least-accomplished person to be seriously considered for President.

54

Okay, she's the second-most least-accomplished person to be seriously considered for President.

 

 

What about me???

55 The New Aristocracy isn't made by blood but by credentials. The aristocracy is "born" in each countries two or three most elite schools, and the formal induction into the class occurs in key international/financial government bureaucracies.

I've said over and over that the elite are credentials oriented while Americans by and large are still results oriented. That's why for the life of them the elites cannot fathom why we don't stand in awe of them.

Our motto is basically; "So, what have you done for me lately"

56 Some animals are more equal than others. In order for us to lord over you effectively, we must have our opulent, palatial dachas in the mountains to retreat to in our Cadillac Escalades where we dine on the finest beluga caviar and Wagyu beef and drink Cristal by the gallon. When we say "shared sacrifice", it means you stupid proles will have to be content shivering in the dark in a squalid flat in some shitty urban area and drive a shitty Prius or take the shitty light-rail train to your shitty job, eating your rations of shitty boiled cabbage and Victory gin.

57 In civilised countries the Ruling Class just airdrops Harvard professors who are acclaimed King! Wait, WHAT?

58 Scary as it sounds, Ron King of Crazystan Paul is probably more qualified than Palin. Doesn't mean he'd be a better President (he wouldn't).

59 Or even war. Bernard Henry-Levi, the philosopher who, as Steyn says, talked Sarkozy into talking Obama into war, now drops his agitation for the liberation of Libya to turn his full talents towards agitating for the liberation of Strauss-Kahn.

KAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNN !!!!!

60

ace:  I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know but I do remember two major meta points

That's right.  I remember you said you had a degree in history in one of your comments.

You also made a blog post about how you hated school in HS, hated school in college, and hated school in law school, and it wasn't until you were actually studying law that you really and truely realized that your hatred of school wasn't just a transitory thing... but that you really hated school.

Well, that's cool.  Just out of honest curiosity... do you find your degree in history to have been usefull or worthwhile?  I know you are blogging, which doesn't REQUIRE a degree, but is your degree(s) usefull?

Do you use you skills / knowledge of history and the law in your blogging?

61 You've focused in on a Stricking distinction between right and left,IMO. The left tends to believe that it is perfectly appropriate for the ruling class to enrich themselves on the backs of the ruled and that any other wealth is an aborition. The right believes that the concept of a ruling class is repugnant.

62 Well under a hundred comments and already it's COD vs. Pragmatic Republicans. Once in power, the corruption seems to follow like dry rot. Yet, someone has to be able to enter government in order to dismantle it. Perhaps this is unavoidable, part of the human condition. Given that government at root is the segment of society sanctioned to use force against the people, nothing is more tempting upon entering government than finding a way to turn its predations into personal enrichment. Liberty and classical liberalism have always been the exception rather than the rule. It's getting more and more difficult to find differences between France and the Nation Below Canada.

63 Until the 1960s, government employees ( especially at the state and local levels ) were paid near-bupkis.  They worked for the job security and modest pension after 20 - 30 years.  Military salaries were similarly very low until the early 70s

To buy votes and pander--the usual reasons--the Demos 'empowered' govt employees in the 60s with significant pay increases and then again in the 70s with collective bargaining and mega-pensions.

Now all levels of government support the oligarchy, allied with union remnants and thousands and thousands of funded 'activist' groups

Boned, we are...........

64 Says who? It's both. It is a service, but when we choose people competing to serve us, it is an honor bestowed on them.

Reasonable people can disagree, but my interpretation is that the Founders intended Congress (and the Presidency) to be necessary but unpleasant jobs in service to the people (the House and Presidency) or the states (the Senate).  Over the years, and especially the last 125 or so, it's devolved into something much closer to the aristocracy the Founders were, IMO, trying to prevent.

65 TAMALE!

66 Well we had our own "con" populist candidate in CO, Dan Maes for governor. I suppose I should get more involved in party politics to see if the party has figured out they should run background checks before allowing someone on the primary ballot for major office. The problem was they figured they could continue with "leave candidate selection to us, we know better" --umm yeah right, the conservative public who had been waiting until November was fed up with the "government is not growing quite as fast as under the dems and you are welcome," when the GOP has had power. Not to mention the CO GOP parties favorite (or it was his turn) for governor was set up with a plagirism/took HUGE money for writing a basic overview of water law incident. But the GOP elite were also pissed that a MERE long time county DA whose wife was a county commissioner presumed to run for senate, and gave the dems fodder for the general election in a very mud slinging primary battle. Thanks GOP, that general race was close enough that we might have won it if you had not been so pissy in the primary.

67

Just off the top of my head: Ron Paul, US Grant (an actual president), and Ross Perot in the not-very-qualified category.  

Nobody is really qualified to be president.  If you think you are fully qualified that's the best evidence you don't get it and aren't qualified.   

68 I've said over and over that the elite are credentials oriented while Americans by and large are still results oriented. That's why for the life of them the elites cannot fathom why we don't stand in awe of them. Your arrow just holed the bullseye. The Nation Below Canada is on a trajectory to be under the softly tyrannical rule of technocrats lucky enough to graduate from the Ivies and be born into families with the right connections. Steyn does well to pick on Geithner. A callow boy who has accomplished precisely nothing to earn the job of Treasury Secretary, much less shit-shoveler. Other than tax cheating. Yet, he can show you a resume filled with East Coast institutional names and academic awards and letters of recommendation from pointy heads with large government endowments. It puts one in mind of bureaucracy in the time of Confucius. The left would be thrilled to see us become a stagnant empire of privileged technocrats who rarely leave the comfortable silken walls of The Forbidden City, while the peasants gamely struggle with minute regulation of their plumbing and household lighting, under a burden of heavy taxation, while relying on the technocrats to provide necessities of life as they see fit.

69 Yeah, we'll dork you up the squeak hole till you're bleeding

70 Patents of nobility were oftened conferred by purchase of bureaucratic office by rich bourgeoise  from the french crown from the 13th to the 18th century(noblesse de robe). it was also a way for the govt to borrow money starting in the 15th cent. the salaries or stipends of these offices were the "interest" on the principal paid. One bonus of these "offices" was that they conferred hereditary tax exemptions to their holder and their descendants.

71 Now that my boy Mitch decided that his wife's dirty laundry would be the top headline once he got the nomination, don't get any ideas of trying to nominate anyone who isn't on my speed dial.

You have been warned. I'm just an analyst doing hit jobs

72 TAMALE!

Posted by: Geroge Costanza at May 22, 2011 01:24 PM (haFtp)

That's like saying Beetlejuice three times! I've never seen Michelle's thunder thighs move so fast.

73 Perhaps the masses want to be serfs. Perhaps the experiment's results are negative.

74 This elitism hoo-hah you're chinwagging about, Ace, is just so much prole fappery.  Do not darken my doorstep again with your noxious japery or I shall have the help trounce you for my amusement.

75 Patents of nobility were oftened conferred by purchase of bureaucratic office by rich bourgeoise from the french crown from the 13th to the 18th century(noblesse de robe). Now you buy a degree from Yale or Brown, intern for a large corporate foundation, work on a Senator's campaign, have parents that donate heavily to a Congressman. It's just a little more obscure these days.

76 >>>ce: I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know but I do remember two major meta points Hey, don't misquote me, I said "I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know (by your second year of high school, I mean)." I took a shot at myself, don't read that out of it and make me sound like an asshole! I can do that well enough on my own! As for using history: Eh, no, I was a bad student. I am not suited for scholarship. What I use is something I never trained in and quite frankly think is almost all bullshit: Psychology. I have no idea how that happened. But I think psychology is, despite my disdain for the general subject and utter lack of training in it, weirdly the thing I am most comfortable discussing.

77 71 Now that my boy Mitch decided that his wife's dirty laundry would be the top headline once he got the nomination, don't get any ideas of trying to nominate anyone who isn't on my speed dial.

You have been warned. I'm just an analyst doing hit jobs

Posted by: Karl Rove at May 22, 2011 01:29 PM

Karl "The Architect", how about him fellow conservatives! You're a Great American, Karl!

78 Maybe psychology is a go-to thing for me precisely because I think the field is largely without rigor and so I don't feel bad about posturing about psychology and making shit up, since I figure that's what people trained in the field do anyway. I guess I think I'm just cutting out the middleman and going straight to the common sense and guestimation mixed with made-up bullshit.

79 Perhaps the masses want to be serfs. Perhaps the experiment's results are negative. Sigh. You had to speak the truth and spoil the party. It's the people who keep voting for this ilk. It's nice to have a tribal leader, I guess. Your remark put me in mind of Amy Alkon's notion that people have not evolved to do well when in groups larger than about 100. Beyond that number, manners decline, and perhaps so do ideas of personal responsibility and autonomy.

80 Fear the power of my awesome voodoo panties!

81 I think the field is largely without rigor and so I don't feel bad about posturing about psychology and making shit up, Word, dude!

82 As for using history: Eh, no, I was a bad student. I am not suited for scholarship.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:33 PM

How about it Mr Spades HQ, are you ready to concede that President Obama not only has all the right credentials but that he NEVER made a mistake on his history test ?

83 Ace is sounding a lot like Marx these days. Power to the people!

84 the Genius of the English gentry was that they accepted 'men of talent and achievement' into their ranks.  If you made a lotta money, kept your nose clean ( in public ) and made nice to the local squires, you could buy a title or an estate and your kids would be invited to parties and allowed to marry well

Look at Kate Middleton's parents.  Party planners.........

Tess of the D' ubervilles, re-mixed.  Polanski directed that movie, btw

85 Fear the power of my awesome voodoo panties! Posted by: Cheri Daniels I had a problem with "voodoo economics", but man, was I full of it.

86 People don't want to be serfs.  They want security;  they'll give up a lot to get it

87 Actually, the two things I would never, ever trade from my education were ninth grade geometry (proofs) and AP Computer Science, because at that point, those subjects really tasked me and pushed me towards logic and rigor. Law school wound up waking up that stuff because it's the same skill-set, plus a small amount of verbal agility. So, those three things. Nothing else really stuck.

88 It has always been the case that the nobility in one country supported the nobility in other countries, even countries with whom they were at war, because national ambition is always well, well secondary to personal ambition. I suppose I just don't get the nobility. I understand kings, emperors, rulers and so on. I understand The People, the common man. But nobility? What do they do? A few months ago I read a short history of the Byzantines. One of the recurring themes was the perpetual conflict between the Emperor and the Nobles. (the writer was on the Emperor's side). You got the impression that, while the Persians or the Muslims or the Bulgars might be who the Byzantines were at war with, the nobility was the eternal enemy.

89 Marx was wrong about everything except the nature of ruling classes. He failed to see and leftists today fail to see that the "revolution" would have a ruling class too.

90 Callista and I have spent years on the problems of bureaucracy in government, and how we can do it right, in ways consistent with the Tenth Amendment, the individual mandate, environmental awareness, and the balance sheet of Tiffany's. Be sure to watch our next speech at American Solutions.

91 Well, I did like Chemistry, the theory part, not the labs, because that was all rules and recipes too. But that was more just doing what I'd already learned I liked to do. Sorry to natter on about myself. But, you know, having a blog, I so seldom get the opportunity to talk about myself.

92 How in the hell did I miss that comment by Rangel? How did any of us miss it?

And, let's not forget that there are still places on this little blue marble where caste systems are still in place. Oh, and even our own dear mum, Britain, has it's class system, supported of course, by the lower beings.

93 > 15 One of Steyn's better pieces, but damn does the ocregister formatting break up his flow. Posted by: Ian S I did a google news search and found a more readable source.

94 You got the impression that, while the Persians or the Muslims or the Bulgars might be who the Byzantines were at war with, the nobility was the eternal enemy. The Inner Party.

95

So, those three things. Nothing else really stuck.

 

Shit doesn't stick to your fur?

96 We tried it once your way Monsieur Strauss-Kahn, are you game for a rematch?

Strauss-Kahn .... I'm LAUGHING at the Superior Intellect

97 Law school wound up waking up that stuff because it's the same skill-set, plus a small amount of verbal agility.

I don't remember proofs on the LSAT!

AmishDude is going to stroke out when he reads that comment

98 74 "This elitism hoo-hah you're chinwagging about, Ace, is just so much prole fappery.  Do not darken my doorstep again with your noxious japery or I shall have the help trounce you for my amusement."


Release the hounds!

99 It should be an interesting Republican primary season.

100 How in the hell did I miss that comment by Rangel? How did any of us miss it?

We didn't, it was the outrage of the day but like all of them, soon forgotten when the next outrage came along.

101

Shit doesn't stick to your fur?

Posted by: a Bear in the Woods at May 22, 2011 01:44 PM (haFtp)

Fuck you, asshole, I know what you're thinking!

102 We tried it once your way Monsieur Strauss-Kahn, are you game for a rematch? Strauss-Kahn .... I'm LAUGHING at the Superior Intellect He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the bedposts of Sofitel and 'round the Spearmint Rhino and 'round Carla Bruni's rack before I give him up!

103 91 Well, I did like Chemistry, the theory part, not the labs, because that was all rules and recipes too. But that was more just doing what I'd already learned I liked to do.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:43 PM

So you liked creating toxic gases, setting the south wing of the school on fire, and generally blowing things up?

104 Fuck, for that matter, there are "civilizations" where entire sections of the population are relegated to a certain "class" based upon their gender, religion, race.... this isn't just about wealth.

105 We forgot only because Rangels words were not really a surprise,(just that He said it out-loud) We have gotten this attitude from most Polls for decades. They create and design an idea for profit for themselves  force it down our throats, and say it's for our own good.

106 I guess this kinda explains why the entertainers sit in their Malibu mansions and contemplate Obamaesque democracy, why Angela Davis taught at UCLA instead of UAB, and why portly ponytailed ukulele players blog their left-wing smears from their gated communities.

107 I'm tired of this whine. One can be qualified by means other than credentialism. What you are essentially insisting on, and insisting on, and insisting on, is that the very idea of "qualification" is imaginary. You are arguing for some extreme form of dopey egalitarianism under which I cannot say that a surgeon or executive is more qualified for a job than a political gadfly who gets paid $150 once a week to appear as a fill-in guest on a barely-watched filling-the-time cable soft news show.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 12:55 PM (nj1bB)

I'm not. I love the fact that you cite physicians, who are tasked with understanding a complex unknowable organic system.

Our political system is man-made and we have as much right to determine its outcome as any "expert" for two reasons: (1) experts are often horribly wrong when it comes to, for example, economics and (2) any legal system that has the complexity of the human body is made byzantine for the purposes of enabling corruption.

108 We didn't, it was the outrage of the day but like all of them, soon forgotten when the next outrage came along.

We've allowed technology to destroy our ability to focus on anything beyond that which is in front of our noses.

109 But nobility? What do they do?

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at May 22, 2011 01:41 PM (KE+Ya)

They're the party planning committee.  Seriously, they make governments function ; the nobility (in most cases) reigns; the aristocracy & gentry RULE. 

They decide Who gets What, and How.  Power, man--they use it

Max was right about Them, but could not see the rise of the middle class.  He could not see much, though, and most of what he did see wasn't actually there

110 sorry control of our beings AND profit for themselves.

111 I rewrote that part about "knowing more about history than you have ever known" to make it clear I was joking. I know shit about history. It's embarrassing. Several of my closest friends followed me into that when I chose it as a major, but they all actually know shit about it, and even keep up with it. It's embarrassing, seriously. That was my major. I'm supposed to know something about it. And I took four years of German in HS and then a year in college. I cannot speak a fucking word of German. I do not understand a word of it. I know in Die Hard "Schiessen Sie die Fenstern" means shoot the windows and... that's about it. And... Hans told us what that meant. Although he did say "glass" rather than "windows."

112 I meant to say that THE MONARCHY reigns while the aristocracy and gentry rule.  Nobility and aristocracy are different terms for essentially the same entity

113 > 85 ... Posted by: George H. W. Bush at May 22, 2011 01:38 PM (AZGON) Best. Hashtag. Ever. Kneel Before Azgon!

114 Sorry to natter on about myself. But, you know, having a blog, I so seldom get the opportunity to talk about myself.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:43 PM

How do you do this blogging stuff? I rarely get to share with everyone my every moment on the golf course. I'm just too humble I suppose

115 There is much truth in what Steyn writes. Bill and Hillary Clinton consider themselves part of that elite bunch. Recall, Bill dispatched his patrolmen guards to get women into, errr, compromising situations. One WH staffer has alleged that Bill Clinton raped her.

Hillary apparently doesn't have such sexual motives (at least based on admittedly flimsy evidence) but she sincerely believes she can go around or above the law. Even some Democrats complained about her tactics while she was on the Watergate committee.

For all his faults, at least Orwell wasn't willing to blind himself to the excesses of the left. Not many like him in that regard.

116 Law school wound up waking up that stuff because it's the same skill-set, plus a small amount of verbal agility.

So, those three things. Nothing else really stuck.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:41 PM (nj1bB)

Then you learned the wrong thing.

The successful lawyer learns how to obscure logic and reason.

The whole point is not to bind oneself to the rules of logic but to make sure that you deconstruct it on behalf of your client.

AmishDude is going to stroke out when he reads that comment

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 22, 2011 01:45 PM (2gNXM)

I'm feeling much better now.

117 I'm tired of this whine. One can be qualified by means other than credentialism. What you are essentially insisting on, and insisting on, and insisting on, is that the very idea of "qualification" is imaginary. You are arguing for some extreme form of dopey egalitarianism under which I cannot say that a surgeon or executive is more qualified for a job than a political gadfly who gets paid $150 once a week to appear as a fill-in guest on a barely-watched filling-the-time cable soft news show.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 12:55 PM (nj1bB)

Wow Ace, I think you pulled a lot of that out your ass.

His point is that anytime a candidate on our side tries his/her hand at it, and they don't have "political experience", ie they are not a part of the political class, they are unelectable.

There is a reason why every single president since, what, Reagan, has been an Ivy League-er. The gatekeepers in our society do their level best to stomp on anyone without the "credentials". And the problem with the people who possess the credentials? They are part of the political class and can't really be trusted to push conservative policies and ideas effectively.

Reagan was the only one who showed an alternative path to winning, afaik, but it is not easy. It takes a lot of work and tremendous patience to improve and inform oneself to become an effective spokesman for conservatism as Reagan became from '76 to '80. Not many people can really do it, or want to.

118 You can't speak German, ace?

Lassen Sie sich umficken...........

119 @64 You're right, but understated IMO. The Presidency was designed to be little more than a figurehead to meet with foreign dignitaries and CiC if and when Congress decided to declare war. So much for that idea. Now we have what amounts to be royalty, who is elected on the sole basis of public adulation, lives in a palace, can unilaterally send the military into war for no defined reason and without limits, and makes agreements with foreign nations while treating Congress like a rubber stamp, if Congress is consulted at all. Congress no longer represents the states or the people, they exclusively represent 2 political parties who's only interest is keeping themselves in aristocratic positions, and consistently takes action in direct opposition of the will of the people. States, which were intended to be sovereign, are now less than fiefdoms who are entirely dependent on the largess of our royalty in DC for their existence & forced to beg for services while paying the majority of what they produce in tribute to DC. If a state steps out of line and asserts it's own or our nations laws, they are sued. Communities and local government, where the majority of issues where supposed to be handled, are now nothing more than local tax collection agencies for the federal government, who are permitted to keep a commission on what they collect. Local courts, school boards? Ha! These are nothing but puppets of our centralized federal agencies, who are directly under the unilateral control of our King, who simply submits ever increasing bills to our neutered Legislature. When was the last time that Congress did it actually job of debating and approving agencies and funding? Not that I can remember. The budget process is merely a side show that has lost all meaning. The creating of a new, all powerful government agency is no longer a question of "if" only "how much more do we need to tax?" The right of the people to amend or overthrow the government? Ha! Good luck with that! First you'll have to figure out how to illegally acquire the arms (another right guaranteed to individuals, but ignored by our rulers), then figure out how to assemble (rights...ha!) without being imprisoned, and avoid the government publicly disclosing through the media your credit report, tax records, juvenile history, school records, birth records, or anything else that they can dig up to try and discredit you (and is similarly off limits for anyone running for office). No, indeed this is not the government created by our Founders. They had more rights, protections, and means of redress as colonies.

120 I know shit about history. It's embarrassing.

Try The History of Rome podcast.

I think we actually get more of an appreciation of history as we age.

121 >>>The successful lawyer learns how to obscure logic and reason. I already knew how to lie. >>>Lassen Sie sich umficken........... I don't know what that means. Let me fuck you up? No idea. I know ficken from porn.

122 No, she is definitely not in Christine O'Donnell's class, well well above that. But she also is just about the least-qualified person to ever be seriously considered for President, and that was her choice.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:07 PM (nj1bB)

Ok, now you are just being silly.

123 I cannot speak a fucking word of German. I do not understand a word of it. I know in Die Hard "Schiessen Sie die Fenstern" means shoot the windows and... that's about it.

LOEffingL

If you don't continue to speak it or travel abroad where you can spread your foreign language wings, you lose your proficiency very quickly.

124 I already knew how to lie.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:56 PM (nj1bB)

Not professionally. Not in an organized methodical way.

And the law has precedents, which are lies written in stone.

125 Perhaps the masses want to be serfs. Perhaps the experiment's results are negative.

Posted by: dagny at May 22, 2011 01:31 PM (shUtW)

I worry that there is more truth to this than I am comfortable contemplating.

126 118 Was that "I'll fucking do it"?

127 Get yourself UNfucked.  Go back to your mother and ( through a very complex and Germannic process )  enter her, then be squeezed out again

Only the Germans could create such a multi-leveled insult

128 >>>His point is that anytime a candidate on our side tries his/her hand at it, and they don't have "political experience", ie they are not a part of the political class, they are unelectable. But that's not true. You are making stuff up. Most people on the right, including the "elites" or at least the elite-friendly, do not disqualify people for not having political experience. It's noted as a drawback, which it is usually is. Not disqualifying. Sharon Angle had political experience but she wasn't looked at askance for her political experience, but for being an odd duck. I think you are just making things up, or this is the way it seems to you, but it's not. I have nothing against a lack of political experience. But then I have to see some accomplishment in another field. I don't care what field. People who are successes in one field will tend to be successes in the next thing they try. People who are failures at their chosen field will tend to be failures in politics. (Exceptions include Adolf Hitler, not much of a painter or a soldier, but a great demagogue.) This is a dumb lesson I learned from American Idol. of all things. I know if someone is, say, a champion archer, that person is going to be decent-to-good singer, because anyone who has learned the critical skills of self-evaluation and self-improvement is going to carry that to anything else he does. If someone who's a champion archer thinks he can sing, then he can. Because he'd know if he couldn't. On the other hand, when you see failures walking in to those additions, generally, those are going to be the let's-make-fun-of-this-wreck people.

129 I don't deal in average hotel-maids.  Only the hawt ones.

130

What I use is something I never trained in and quite frankly think is almost all bullshit: Psychology.

I have no idea how that happened. But I think psychology is, despite my disdain for the general subject and utter lack of training in it, weirdly the thing I am most comfortable discussing.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:33 PM (nj1bB)

Its essentially a social skill.  You can be a very good amateur at it, because as social animals we are essentially programmed to listen and talk to others and being willing to try to help others or discuss situations can be important for the whole.

At least that's my bullshit theorizing for this.

131 I don't know what that means. Let me fuck you up? No idea. I know ficken from porn.
Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:56 PM

Then you also know gummi, leder, scheisse, & pissen

132 A little treat for kdbabear.

133 >>>you lose your proficiency very quickly. never had it to lose it. I never had it in class, either. I went to language labs in college and listened to the tapes and had no earthly idea what was being said. Five years in, mind you. Five years in. Five years of German, and I cannot follow a goddamned simple reading on a tape.

134

That was my major. I'm supposed to know something about it.

I didn't know know that was your major, but I'm not surprised. I've seen it in your writing. You're blogging along and then all of a sudden BAM! you've listed some events, tied them together and made sense of them.

 

135 Oh, and btw, speaking of skunks and frogs, THIS is what passes for entertainment there. The critics just "fell in love with it".

136 >>123 I cannot speak a fucking word of German. I do not understand a word of it. I know in Die Hard "Schiessen Sie die Fenstern" means shoot the windows and... that's about it. ... > If you don't continue to speak it or travel abroad where you can spread your foreign language wings, you lose your proficiency very quickly. Posted by: laceyunderalls So True. I had to learn to read Russian in tech school. Crash course. By the end of the course I was able translate a couple of pages of college level Russian to English. Made just one mistake. A few weeks later our class had a problem. One part of that problem involved translating Russian. Nobody in the class (and we all passed the crash course) was able to translate the text. The teachers were pissed.

137 I did pick up on Italian, quickly, by working in a pizza shop. When I make a fortune I'm going to go to Berlitz to learn italian.

138 Every industrialized nation has seen a sizeable rise in income inequality in recent decades. And this has happened in countries with high taxes and low, high regulation and low, large welfare states and small.

The primary explanation seems to be the IT revolution which has brought greater returns to IQ and other cognitive skills. Before, being the smartest kid in small town Kansas meant  ... a good life in small town Kansas. Now that kids gets sent off to Harvard, Yale, Oxford, and various other elite universities in various nations. Or they go and join Google. Or a hedge fund.

Now this isn't the super-political elite as much as new permanent upper class, but it still is a new phenomenon.

And IQ is 60% heritable-- and elite schools and companies double as match-makers which means smart dudes increasingly breed with smart chicks.

So our new aristocracy is increasingly going to be genetically different from the masses.

The funny thing is the high IQ set claims to be concerned about this new income inequality -- so they craft labyrinthine new bureaucratic rules to manage the economy and reduce inequality. But managing and navigating the bureaucracy is so complex that it actually just makes income inequality worse.

Who gets Affirmative Action? Basically upper IQ blacks (like Obama) who are smart enough to work the system. Obama would have had a fine up-scale life without Affirmative Action, he didn't need it in anyway. Actual poor blacks who need the help often have cognitive deficits that make navigating the AA bureaucracy very difficult. You have to follow a many step process, get the right forms in on time, etc, etc. It doesn't sound hard to you probably, but you are probably above average in IQ. Almost by definition the people we want to help are below average in IQ and get confused and overwhelmed much easier.

The very steps the ruling class take in the name of reducing their power ... just further cements it.

139 Most people on the right, including the "elites" or at least the elite-friendly, do not disqualify people for not having political experience.

Where they see you as disqualified is when the media can corner you easily and get you to say stupid things. Well...everyone but Obama.

140

If you don't continue to speak it or travel abroad where you can spread your foreign language wings, you lose your proficiency very quickly.

Seems that the Spanish and German I learned are mixed together now. I can carry on a conversation with someone who speaks both, plus English...but that isn't exactly useful.

Although there was one funny episode of Frazier where there was a 3 way translation going on and I started laughing way before my husband got the joke.

141

The key to having a meritocracy without having it devolve into a different from of elitism is strong limits on government and institutional power.

I do worry about this though, because hasn't the US been more meritocratic in the last 50 years with the Civil Rights Movement, movement toward college entrance based mainly on standardized tests, increased parity bewteen men and women, etc?

More meritocracy seems to have emboldened rather than limited government power. The link may not be causal, but there at least appears to be a strong correlation.

142 lassen does mean let, right? See? I should know this. I'm probably confusing it with another word that begins with L.

143 "Unfair" is some guy having a privilege you don't.

Wrong. This is the Prog definition. The American definition is --
"Unfair" some guy having a privilege you will never be able to earn or steal.

Locked out by accident of birth is unfair. That is all.  Χαλεπα Τα Καλα.

144 I don't care what field. People who are successes in one field will tend to be successes in the next thing they try. People who are failures at their chosen field will tend to be failures in politics. (Exceptions include Adolf Hitler, not much of a painter or a soldier, but a great demagogue.)

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:01 PM

So you are admitting that President Obama will always be perfect because he's NEVER made a mistake. Ergo, your criticism of him is nothing but vulgar racism

145 Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:01 PM (nj1bB)

Um what? I'm not even sure we are talking about the same thing now.

146 >>>And IQ is 60% heritable-- and elite schools and companies double as match-makers which means smart dudes increasingly breed with smart chicks. I got that from the bell curve. It's an interesting idea, however: I'm not sure that this is terribly much different from the old interbred upper crust (they probably had better than average IQs too, on the whole). Although I suppose it is accelerated now, and female mates are being selected for intelligence as well as attractiveness. (At least more than they once were.)

147

Its essentially a social skill.  You can be a very good amateur at it, because as social animals we are essentially programmed to listen and talk to others and being willing to try to help others or discuss situations can be important for the whole.

That's therapy, which isn't necessarily what psychology is about. I had to learn quite a bit of science about how the brain works. And a variety of other things, of course. Nothing about how to be a psychologist, really. Never took the Abnormal Pysch class, though, which probably would have been the most useful.

148 Five years of German, and I cannot follow a goddamned simple reading on a tape.

Well if you care (and it sounds like you don't, just making a broader point), you can find some type of social organization, esp in a big city likes yours where you're forced to converse. That's the only way to learn I think. I took four years of Italian and I learned more in three months going to these Cicolo Italiano outings where they spoke no English. It was painful at first - getting out of your comfort zone but it paid off in spades.

149 Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:01 PM (nj1bB)

Also fuck you. I don't make shit up. The MFM and the political class will defend their status with everything they got. You disagree?

150 I have nothing against a lack of political experience. But then I have to see some accomplishment in another field.

That's fine, with the rider that accomplishment in politics is worth a lot less than accomplishment elsewhere.  Otherwise Robert Byrd would be the best possible Presidential candidate ever.

151 Lassen means let or leave
Sie seich your self be
umficken fucked

152 And you just made my point at #137!

153 why thanks, Mama AJ. That's something, at least. I guess i know broad strokes. That's all I've ever been, broad strokes and bullshit. This isn't self-deprecation or anything because I am an amazing crammer. And I can do a lot with broad strokes and bullshit. Got me through seven years of post-hs eductation. But yeah, a man's got to know his limitations. Sometimes history buffs start talking here and I immediately go away because I can't keep up and if I talk about it it'll be revealed how little I know.

154 elite schools and companies double as match-makers which means smart dudes increasingly breed with smart chicks.

And the smart chicks convert the smart dudes at dick-point to vote for Obama and then they have at most 1 kid because of GAIA!  Onwards to Idiocracy.

155 Zut alors! J'ai me baiseé!!

156

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:07 PM (nj1bB)

Heh. 

I'm not finding an English to German translation for "Yippee Ki Yay, motherfucker".

157

Although there was one funny episode of Frazier where there was a 3 way translation going on and I started laughing way before my husband got the joke.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 22, 2011 02:06 PM (XdlcF)

Wasn't that the one with the fencing instructor?

158 132 A little treat for kdbabear.
Posted by: James Tiberius Kirk at May 22, 2011 02:03 PM

"I think we can guarantee that she'll follow us, Lieutenant. Remind me to explain to you the concept of the human libidio."

159

Hey, don't misquote me, I said "I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know (by your second year of high school, I mean)."

Hey brother, I wasn't trying to ding or misquote you there.  I just left that part out because it didn't seem to be necessary to what I was trying to communicate.

I understand your concern though.  Anyway, thanks for your responses.

Anyway, I've been working non stop, 7 days a week for about a month.  This weekend is my first free weekend.  I've got a couple of pitchers of mimosas in my gut, and a hot babe by my side, so I'm going to have to sign off now.

Keep on rockin' on with your cock out.

Or words to that effect....

 

160

#146

Even fifty years ago, many Ivy League schools had a lower SAT scores than some large state schools due to large numbers of 'elite' connection admissions.

The meritocracy seems to be working better in many ways that in did in 1950.

161 "I think we can guarantee that she'll follow us, Lieutenant. Remind me to explain to you the concept of the human libidio."
Posted by: Judy the Civil Intellectual at May 22, 2011 02:13 PM

After I explain the concept of sock failure

162 We don't even get the occasional act of noblesse oblige from these new-money cocksuckers.

163 UMficken doesn't really translate, as it is slang.  'UN-fucked' is the best translation, but then who can be un-fucked?

Germans........

"Let yourself be un-fucked"

164 "Palin wasn't a gadfly, she was a governor, then she resigned to become a media personality and commentator. " She resigned to set herself, her family, and Alaska free from the legal attacks from the Left. Then she became a media personality and a commentator and a great aid to the Conservative cause.

165

Well, Ace, I hope you keep writing about history in the making. The old stuff has been written about plenty, man.

Was going to email you about the MFM but I'll dump it here: there were two different stories this morning about presidential candidates being anti-Tea Party. Which, of course they didn't actually say.

I think a Journolist email went around or something. I'll grab the links and BRB.

166 Sometimes history buffs start talking here and I immediately go away because I can't keep up and if I talk about it it'll be revealed how little I know.

The reason I love the HQ so is that every once in a while someone will make a really clever reference (usually as a sock) and dredge up some obscure bit of history from my brain.  "Smart military blog" really undersells the place, IMO.

167

ace:  Hey, don't misquote me, I said "I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know (by your second year of high school, I mean)."

Hey brother, I wasn't trying to ding or misquote you there. I just left that part out because it didn't seem to be necessary to what I was trying to communicate.

You're cool with me.

I understand your concern though. Anyway, thanks for your responses.

Anyway, I've been working non stop, 7 days a week for about a month. This weekend is my first free weekend. I've got a couple of pitchers of mimosas in my gut, and a hot babe by my side, so I'm going to have to sign off now.

Keep on rockin' on with your cock out.

Or words to that effect....

168 154 elite schools and companies double as match-makers which means smart dudes increasingly breed with smart chicks.

And the smart chicks convert the smart dudes at dick-point to vote for Obama and then they have at most 1 kid because of GAIA!  Onwards to Idiocracy.
Posted by: Ian S. at May 22, 2011 02:12 PM

You're basing this on the assumption that the elite student is there on merit and not social or family connections

Based on what spills out of the mouths and keyboards of the graduates of these elite schools, you have to wonder if inbreeding is becoming rampant among them

169

Wasn't that the one with the fencing instructor?

Oh, yeh. And the mis-translation was between "wife" and "shoes" so the guy thought he was being accused of stealing Nile's shoes.

170 Keine Rosen ohne Dornen........

171 On language learning. The best tapes are Pimsleur. And the Rosetta Stone software is pretty good. LiveMocha is great -- it's basically a free version of Rosetta Stone.

I took 4 years of Spanish in high school and didn't learn dick. Then years later I worked my way through Pimsleur and started reading a lot in Spanish. Not books. Newspapers -- sports, entertainment, wikipedia entries on Batman, comic books, children's stories. It didn't take long before I could read most news articles in Spanish. My audio processing still sucks. I can watch Spanish TV -- but only if the spanish subtitles are on. I can read in real time, but I still can't audio process in real time. I can have a decent, if slow, conversation with a native Spanish speaker, but it exhausts me since I have to concentrate so hard to understand them.

Of course, this all is a useless skill and was probably a waste of my time. I can now fluently read about Kobe Bryant or the latest TMZ scandal in Spanish. I can even read about Spanish and Mexican soccer stars that I don't care about, and sex scandals of Mexican actresses I've never heard of. So, a lot of work for very little tangible benefit other than checking off  "learn a foreign language" on my to-do list.

172 Pretty good post Ace. A lot of people are echoing this sentiment right now. We are facing the re-imposition of the Monarchy/Nobility form of Government. That is *IT* in a nut shell.

173 You're basing this on the assumption that the elite student is there on merit and not social or family connections

How dare you!

174

France, home to the world's greatest painters, chefs and anti-Semites.

The French, cowardly yet opinionated, arrogant yet foul-smelling, anti-Israel, anti-American, and of course, as always, Jew-hating.

Paris, the city of whores, dog feces on every corner, and effete men yelling anti-Semitic remarks at children. The real creme de la creme of world culture.

With all that's going on in the world, isn't it time we got back to hating ... the French?

175 Strauss-Khan: Full monty pantsdrop! Chambermaid: No, sir! You have the IMF! You can have whatever... Strauss-Khan: [grabs Chambermaid in anger] FULL ROBOT CHUBBY! DAMN YOU!

176
With all that's going on in the world, isn't it time we got back to hating ... the French?

Posted by: can't let go of old memes at May 22, 2011 02:20 PM (GTbGH)

Do you know how to tell if a French man has been in your back yard?

Your garbage is missing and your dog is pregnant.

177

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 22, 2011 02:18 PM (XdlcF)

I remember that! I miss that show, it's probably my favorite.

178 you have to wonder if inbreeding is becoming rampant among them How dare you, peasant.

179

Carl Cameron is apparantly trying out for a job voicing movie trailers:

In this era of combative Tea Party partisanship

And the WSJ finds someone in the crowd to quote:

 "The tea party makes me nervous," said Richard Berry of Keene, a Republican-leaning independent.

 

180 With all that's going on in the world, isn't it time we got back to hating ... the French?

Wait.  There is ...... another.

181 The peasant may please us now.

182 172 Pretty good post Ace. A lot of people are echoing this sentiment right now. We are facing the re-imposition of the Monarchy/Nobility form of Government. That is *IT* in a nut shell.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at May 22, 2011 02:19 PM (PF2Cj)

And it's not limited to the upper echelon of national politics, it trickles down to your community. Usually in the form of state and local employees/bureaucrats. They're better then you.

183 Plus ca change, plus la meme chose

In France the am-bla-lamps in cities have doctors.  They eat snails.  ( not that the doctors eat snails; lots of people in France eat snails )

184 >>>She resigned to set herself, her family, and Alaska free from the legal attacks from the Left. Semantics, we can't just keep having this exact same back and forth. Clinton had some legal attacks on him, if you remember. Further, the claim is made that she left behind an admirable lt gov who would do what she would have done. Not so. Her two big accomplishments were 1, increasing taxes on oil (something I approve of, since I strongly suspect she was right, that low taxes were the norm due to kickbacks and influence), and 2, the trans-Alaskan pipeline. Well... Parnell is considering rolling back her oil tax hikes and probably will do so and the trans-Alaskan pipeline is being shelved and looks like it won't happen. So you tell me, eman. If her two big achievements were undone by her resignation, you tell me what she runs on. And you tell me how much ice "attacks on her family" will cut with the public, when they saw Clinton endure (justifiably) an impeachment and embarrassing scandal, or when they saw Bush being pilloried, or when they see Obama's birthplace questioned, etc. She resigned in order to pursue other interests, such as making money for her family. That is not an unadmirable thing to do. It can be argued that that is the best decisions as far as her family. But this bullshit that it was all principle, and who cares anyway, and no one could have withstood such horrible attacks... No sale. No sale.

185 147

Its essentially a social skill.  You can be a very good amateur at it, because as social animals we are essentially programmed to listen and talk to others and being willing to try to help others or discuss situations can be important for the whole.

That's therapy, which isn't necessarily what psychology is about. I had to learn quite a bit of science about how the brain works. And a variety of other things, of course. Nothing about how to be a psychologist, really. Never took the Abnormal Pysch class, though, which probably would have been the most useful.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 22, 2011 02:09 PM (XdlcF)

Yeah but that again is getting between the amateur and professional I think.  Therapy and Empathy do essentially to require you to understand things about the human brain, and if you are for the most part a normal brain funcioning human you should be able to do that by understanding yourself.  We're not talking about diagnosing Bi-Polar people and schizophrenia.

186

I can watch Spanish TV -- but only if the spanish subtitles are on.

Well, with Spanish you can be fluent and then get a speaker from somewhere else and not be able to understand a word.

I thought I could understand a decent amount until I moved to the Texas Mexico border and could not understand a freaking word of Spanish for 4 years.

And don't get me started about the lack of burritos.

187 Wait.  There is ...... another.
Posted by: Blame Canada! at May 22, 2011 02:23 PM

Given that Harper just told Obama to stick his Jew-hatred where the sun don't shine, I'm OK with not hating Canada.

188 Ya know who this benefits, right?

189

Carl Cameron is apparantly trying out for a job voicing movie trailers:

In this era of combative Tea Party partisanship

Screw Huntsman. When I hear someone start down the "civility" trail it immediately signals to me that they don't have the stomach for the job. They are saying Please don't attack me because I have no intention of returning the favor. Civility is not a fucking plan for the future.

Immediate disqualification.

190 175 Strauss-Khan: Full monty pantsdrop!
Chambermaid: No, sir! You have the IMF! You can have whatever...
Strauss-Khan: [grabs Chambermaid in anger] FULL ROBOT CHUBBY! DAMN YOU! Posted by: James Tiberius Kirk at May 22, 2011 02:21 PM

We are now entering the Mutara Squeakhole

191 Her two big accomplishments were 1, increasing taxes on oil (something I approve of, since I strongly suspect she was right, that low taxes were the norm due to kickbacks and influence).

So do something about the kickbacks and influence don't dramatically increase the tax on producers which kills reinvestment and future production. Which it's doing and why the current Governor wants to roll it back.

192 Germans........

"Let yourself be un-fucked"

Probably why Gunnery Sgt Hartman's insults were to as much effect as they were:

"Private Pyle!  You'd best unfuck yourself and start shitting me Tiffany cufflinks or I will rip off your head and shit down your neck!"

193 They are saying Please don't attack me because I have no intention of returning the favor. Civility is not a fucking plan for the future. I must admit, all this "no labels" talk hasn't exactly worked out for me. My phone hasn't rang since the clinic called with an overdue bill.

194

People are going on about Marx, but it is important to note that these cycles were well understood long before the 19th century.

Read up on Cicero, and his understanding of the three primary forms of government (aristocracy, monarchy, democracy.)  These are effectively hard-wired into humanity, with peoples tending towards any one, or in combination.

Currently we are seeing aristocracy ascendant, with lip-service to democracy (and it's red-headed stepchild rule of law.)  Monarchy remains despised for the near term.

195

Buzzion, I got a degree in Psych and then worked in IT for many years.

Always joked that when someone called with a computer problem, I'd ask "And how do you feel about that?"

 We're not talking about diagnosing Bi-Polar people and schizophrenia.

And when you say "we" you mean...??

196 Semantics, we can't just keep having this exact same back and forth.

"You dare disagree with me?!"

Speaking of semantics, that is.

197 OMG!OMG!OMG!

I was eating Cheetos Flaming Hot Fries and sneezed in the middle of chewing.

198 I'm tired of this whine. One can be qualified by means other than credentialism. What you are essentially insisting on, and insisting on, and insisting on, is that the very idea of "qualification" is imaginary. No, what we're insisting on, & insisting on, & insisting upon is that your notion of what a qualification is is ephemeral if not outright horse crap. To be qualified for President of the United States one must be 35 years of age and a natural born citizen of the United States. Everything else is subjective. All of the other so-called qualifications are what some of us would refer to as "notions", and there are certain people who watch a whole lot of talking heads who certainly do have a lot of notions. But they don't in any way make any person qualified, just acceptable to a certain class of educated fool. Acceptable and qualified are not the same things. Confusion of language leads to confusion of thought.

199 Ace, my BFF ... If you want a 500 comment thread on a slow day, you MUST post a picture of Palin at the podium

Just trying to help, don't get mad at me.

200 197 OMG!OMG!OMG!

I was eating Cheetos Flaming Hot Fries and sneezed in the middle of chewing.

Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 02:30 PM (piMMO)

Quick! Chug some root beer and spit it out you nose!

201 Don't forget that in Liberal La La Land, the likes of DSK don't have to wait in line for a CAT scan, and while the rabble have to ride "high speed" rail. buses or Volts and must forgo flying overseas, the upper crust gets to ride in style and fly wherever they want for "business," on our dime.

--and it's amazing how many of the poor and lower middle class would be happy with this arrangement.

202

 We're not talking about diagnosing Bi-Polar people and schizophrenia.

And when you say "we" you mean...??

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 22, 2011 02:30 PM (XdlcF)

Amateurs.  The ones with a minimum or no actual study of psychology.

203 OMG!OMG!OMG!

I was eating Cheetos Flaming Hot Fries and sneezed in the middle of chewing.

Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 02:30 PM (piMMO)

Thread winner

204 "Private Pyle!  You'd best unfuck yourself and start shitting me Tiffany cufflinks or I will rip off your head and shit down your neck!"

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at May 22, 2011 02:29 PM (uehxp)

Yeah, I remember that.  Interesting flick. To Kubrick the military was like outer space, in that he was studying something he was totally clueless about.

The German insult is more nuanced and layered for effect......

205 I must admit, all this "no labels" talk hasn't exactly worked out for me. My phone hasn't rang since the clinic called with an overdue bill. Posted by: David Frum at May 22, 2011 02:29 PM

Mon ami, would you like for me to do a link blitz on HA? I'll link blitz you on Twitter too, and let Meggie know to get the word out!

206 Given that Harper just told Obama to stick his Jew-hatred where the sun don't shine, I'm OK with not hating Canada.

Harper's a good guy.  Chretien and Trudeau makes the count 1 and 2.

207 --and it's amazing how many of the poor and lower middle class would be happy with this arrangement.
Posted by: logprof at May 22, 2011 02:33 PM

You provide the bread, I'll provide the circuses

208 Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:24 PM (nj1bB) You are entitled to your opinion. Somehow you believe that she is lying when she tells us why she resigned. Somehow. I do not care what you are sold on. You said something, I added my adjustment.

209

Civility is not a fucking plan for the future.

 

That's why I'm ready to go apeshit on the Democrats' collective asses!

210 >>>No, what we're insisting on, & insisting on, & insisting upon is that your notion of what a qualification is is ephemeral if not outright horse crap. To be qualified for President of the United States one must be 35 years of age and a natural born citizen of the United States. Everything else is subjective. All of the other so-called qualifications are what some of us would refer to as "notions", and there are certain people who watch a whole lot of talking heads who certainly do have a lot of notions. But they don't in any way make any person qualified, just acceptable to a certain class of educated fool. >>>Acceptable and qualified are not the same things. Confusion of language leads to confusion of thought. Ah, so you're just confessing you're doing what I say you're doing -- insisting that the whole notion of "qualifications' is imaginary, and all someone needs to be qualified is a pulse, a birth certificate, and having succeeded at not dying for 35 years. You can argue this radical (and dopey) notion that "We're ALL qualified, each and every one of us!" all you like. People don't agree with you. This whole notion is cooked up not because it is believed, but because it is necessary to justify the least-qualified candidates.

211

Buzzion, I was trying to tease you. Pretending you'd said something like "we are not schizophrenic" or something.

212 Well, I did like Chemistry,

woot I knew there was a reason I was drawn here

213 15 One of Steyn's better pieces, but damn does the ocregister formatting break up his flow.

Posted by: Ian S. at May 22, 2011 12:52 PM (DRhXx)

--The same column is posted at NRO Saturday mornings.

214 --and it's amazing how many of the poor and lower middle class would be happy with this arrangement.
Posted by: logprof at May 22, 2011 02:33 PM

The people give us the power to do what we want because in return we provide happiness. We give them happiness, in return they give us power

215

and all someone needs to be qualified is a pulse, a birth certificate, and having succeeded at not dying for 35 years.

 

 

Friggin A!  Vote for me in 2012!

216 >>>Somehow you believe that she is lying when she tells us why she resigned. What I believe is that every single politician is a lame-duck in the last year or two before they're not running again but most politicians do not say "Well, I'm a lame duck anyway, as I'm not running again, so I'll resign and cut short the service I promised." This to you seems normal and understandable. You even will tell me, I'm sure, it's admirable, and more people should just start resigning when they're lame ducks. Like maybe Bush should have after the 2006 elections, when he entered lame-duck status. Fine. But let's not pretend here. You're just pushing this odd conception of service in public office because Palin needs it to be true to be plausible.

217 People don't agree with you. This whole notion is cooked up not because it is believed, but because it is necessary to justify the least-qualified candidates.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:36 PM (nj1bB)

Oh wow, "people" huh? Nice....

218 It occurs to me that I have absolutely no business on this thread.

Whilst you are discussing the ruling class and society at large, I am watching the Cartoon Network and eating Cheetos while in my sweats.

Pardon me.

219

It has always been the case that the nobility in one country supported the nobility in other countries, even countries with whom they were at war, because national ambition is always well, well secondary to personal ambition. Perpetuating the rights and privileges of the new class is more important to the members of the new class than any transitory policy goal. ...

 Men will never lose the ability to seek their fullest possible personal freedom and luxury, even if it comes at the price of hypocrisy or the creation of patently unfair structures of class distinction and control; no advantage in your favor is ever perceived as "unfair."

This also exists within the corporate structure, in my experience. Management makes countless rules and policies to justify their own existence (to each other). It's not even possible to know them all, much less abide by them all. Some are actually relevant and important, however, and the biggest breakers of those rules are always the management - the higher up they are, the more they get away with.

But if you're not in their favor (which means not stroking their egos - because failure is completely irrelevant, and can always be blamed on whoever you want), they can always find a rule or policy to harass you with.

They will always stick up for each other - even when it is plainly obvious that the one they are sticking up for is a really bad apple. At least in my industry, there's about a 50/50 chance of seeing any kind of managerial competence in an individual manager. So they rely on their devotion to their gang to keep their place of priviledge, and they dare not do anything that might hurt the gang. Mambers are only ever shed for showing inadequate devotion.

Hopefully, other industries do a little better, but I kinda doubt it.

220 Chambermaid: You lie! In Sofitel room 512 there were clean towels! A fair chance... Strauss-Khan: [shouts] THIS IS SOFITEL FIVE TWELVE! Sofitel 510 was occupied six days after the IMF left here. Their filthy laundry short-sheeted the bed of this room and everything was laid waste. 'Chambermaid' McMuslimpants never bothered to check on our towels. It was only the fact of my aristocratically-engineered intellect that allowed us to luxuriate. In France, two hundred days ago, I was a prince with power over millions...

221 But let's not pretend here. You're just pushing this odd conception of service in public office because Palin needs it to be true to be plausible. Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:39 PM (nj1bB) Perhaps you can add a psychological analysis of why you think you can read minds.

222 >>>This also exists within the corporate structure, in my experience. I think it exists in probably every structure you can name. Even in marriage both parties have divergent ideas of what's "fair" and what's "normal." A lot of husbands think it's normal that they don't do the dishes. A lot of wives think it's normal that they don't have sex very often.

223 At Heathrow ( LHR ) there is a separate gate for First Class and Bidness Class going through 'security' and passport control. 

Peasants go through a very long line in a giant room.  Oligarchs and their hirelings have a comfy barely-trafficked gate.  Very quick and cozy.

( stand-by passengers get a First Class boarding pass, so I get to live vicariously and see how my Betters do things )

224

A lot of wives think it's normal that they don't have sex very often.

 

 

Tell me about it.

225 37 What happened between 1100 and 1500 was that Europe increased it's arable land by half, cutting down a lotta trees and draining a lotta swamps.

The population increased significantly, despite the Non-White Plague, wages went up significantly--ad yes, a "gentry" of the top five percent and aristocracy of the top one percent was established as the governing class in hundreds of organized governments throughout Europe

They've been in charge ever since, despite all the wars and Stuff

( Hitler was such a threat because despite pandering to them he hated the gentry / aristocracy and would have eventually wiped all of them out )

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, Old Testament scholar & parable guru at May 22, 2011 01:05 PM (UqKQV)

--Don't forget the Medieval Warm Period.

Also after 1100 (and perhaps related), the very serious threat from raids from the Vikings receded while they became "assimilated," converting to Christianity and settling into permanent communities.

226

Buzzion, I got a degree in Psych and then worked in IT for many years.

Always joked that when someone called with a computer problem, I'd ask "And how do you feel about that?"

Ha.  I went Anthro to IT.  My first question is Who do you call Father?

227 dammit

228 Strange that Ace is here on a Sunday afternoon ...

Theories?

1. He can't go to the movies because his regular theater banned him for staining the seat
2. His neighbor had a wild party and one of the guests still hasn't taken his car out of ace's driveway
3. Dr Who isn't on, and he's already watched the Star Wars DVD pack 10 times
4. Allahpundit couldn't go drinking with him because he had to shampoo his hair..

Any other theories?

229 >>>Perhaps you can add a psychological analysis of why you think you can read minds. I can't read minds, eman, but prior to Palin's resignation I never, EVER, EVER heard you or anyone else contending that resigning halfway through a term, because the last half would be a lame-duck period, was commendable. So I can make some basic deductions. This notion, not existing before that fact, therefore was most likely concocted in reaction to that fact. Or am I not allowed to take note of this?

230 I note that apparently DSK had an "arrangement" with Air France to take a free first class seat on any flight at any time.

231 >> I am watching the Cartoon Network and eating Cheetos while in my sweats.

OK, now you're just flirting with me.

^{What were we talking about?}

232 Am I required to pretend that the "Resign before the lame-duck term" notion was an idea floating around before Palin thought of it?

233 Any other theories? Posted by: Art Bell Play some Thelma Houston and Blue Oyster Cult as bumper music and it will get my conspiracy theory juices flowing.

234 But she also is just about the least-qualified person to ever be seriously considered for President

Not even close.

235 >>>Oh wow, "people" huh? Nice....

Wait, are you actually arguing that people DON'T care about qualifications for the highest elected office in the land beyond mere formality of being an American citizen over the age of 35?  That people DON'T care about voting for a guy (or gal) they think is smart enough and experienced enough and savvy enough to do the (immensely difficult) job?

You are proving Ace's point.  And you don't even realize it.

You TrueCons are the new Levellers, you realize that?

236

It occurs to me that I have absolutely no business on this thread.

Pardon me.

Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 02:39 PM (piMMO)

FWIW, my two areas of expertise, boats and golf, are never discussed here (maybe golf, a little). I don't know dick about politics and I know even less about the economy.

Doesn't stop me from posting my ignoramus shit here!

 

237 Ha. I went Anthro to IT. My first question is Who do you call Father? You had better answer "Bill Gates."

238 How in the hell did I miss that comment by Rangel? How did any of us miss it?

Because we're the deciders

239 Wait, are you actually arguing that people DON'T care about qualifications for the highest elected office in the land beyond mere formality of being an American citizen over the age of 35?

Hi, have we met?

240 OK, now you're just flirting with me.

You have certainly set your standards quite high. No woman can ever hope to meet them.

241 >>>Posted by: Abe Lincoln at May 22, 2011 02:45 PM (0vDuM)

When Palin serves in Congress and engages in her version of the Lincoln-Douglas debates (which were followed on a national level), get back to me.

Otherwise don't insult the intelligence of every single living, breathing human being by presuming to compare Sarah Palin favorably to Abraham Lincoln.

242 That Strauss-Kahn fella makes a damn goo hot dog.

243 The big question I've had recently is -- What is the purpose of America?

I really don't have a good answer anymore. I understand the purpose of ethno-states. Japan exists to give the Japanese a better life. And even though Japan has turned into a nation of panty-sniffing shut-in perverts, a noble Japanese can honorably work towards bettering Japan in the belief that Japan will still exist and someday in the future it will return to a more honorable way of life. It gives him motivation to sacrifice for the greater good, even if he looks around today and sees a nation of anime porn fetish dudes and shallow cult-of-cute, shopping-obsessed chicks.

With America we don't have any unifying ethnicity. We increasingly don't have any unifying religious beliefs. And we increasingly don't have any unifying political beliefs. I grew up believing that America was a country based on certain ideas -- the whole life, liberty, pursuit of happiness thing. Individual liberty, individual freedom, rule of law, that sort of thing. And that was what made America, that was the purpose of America. We were a nation based on ideas.

I honestly don't believe that anymore. The founding American values are now a minority belief system. And a shrinking one. The demographic trends seem clear -- America is importing tens of millions of people who come from cultures that don't share any of these beliefs and are often openly opposed to them.

So a likely future America will be even more hostile to the ideals I believe in than it is today.

What are the animating ideas behind America? The best I can come up with is -- to provide as a large a welfare state as possible to as many people as possible, ideally with those people having the exact demographics of the world as a whole. That seems to be the noble ideal of our political class these days.

There's no desire to preserve and defend our long tradition of Anglo-Saxon common law, or ideas of property rights. There does seem to be a goal to import third world immigrants until America is just the world in microcosm. I guess various eco ideas are also animating ideas of our political class.

This question bugs me. What is the point of America? Right now it seems kinda pointless to me. And I believe the demographic trends essentially doom any return to the founding ideals that held true for the first 200 years or so.

I'm not happy about this, and I hope I'm wrong.

244

Wait, are you actually arguing that people DON'T care about qualifications for the highest elected office in the land beyond mere formality of being an American citizen over the age of 35?  That people DON'T care about voting for a guy (or gal) they think is smart enough and experienced enough and savvy enough to do the (immensely difficult) job?

 

I love Sarah Palin.  I think she's a true conservative and she says all the right things.  That being said, she can't win.  She is too polarizing and indies won't vote for her.  Gimme someone who can win, and I'll back him/her.  This election is too important.

245 Or am I not allowed to take note of this? Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:44 PM (nj1bB) Have you mentioned this lame-duck scenario before? It seems new.

246 The Right of Return, Chris?  The Right of Return?  You're asking me about the Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  No seriously, Chris, you're really asking me about the Right of Return?  Right of Return?  THE Right of Return?  You want to know about the Right of Return?  Chris?  Chris, you're asking me a question about the Right of Return?  Am I seriously sitting here listening to you ask me a question about the Right of Return?  Is this some crazy dream I'm having in which I'm sitting here for an interview being asked about the Right of Return?  Srsly, Chris, the Right of Return?  THE RIGHT OF RETURN?  You want to know everything I know about the Right of Return?  You want me to tell YOU everything I know about the Right of Return?  Why do you want to know about the Right of Return, Chris?  Wouldn't you rather hear all about my bankrupt PACs before getting a single word about the Right of Return?  Is it Right to Return to the Right of Return?  Will the Right of Return Return us to the Right?  I could sit here all day explaining to you all the nuances of the Right of Return but why do you want to hear about the Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  The Way of the Future?  The Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  Return of Right The?  The Right of Return?  The Right of Return?  Nruter fo Thgir Eht?  The Right of Return?  Well it's been great talking to you Chris!

247 Otherwise don't insult the intelligence of every single living, breathing human being by presuming to compare Sarah Palin favorably to Abraham Lincoln.

I'm a Palin fan but even I wouldn't go there.

248 184 >>>She resigned to set herself, her family, and Alaska free from the legal attacks from the Left.

Semantics, we can't just keep having this exact same back and forth.

Clinton had some legal attacks on him, if you remember.

Further, the claim is made that she left behind an admirable lt gov who would do what she would have done.

Not so.

Her two big accomplishments were 1, increasing taxes on oil (something I approve of, since I strongly suspect she was right, that low taxes were the norm due to kickbacks and influence), and 2, the trans-Alaskan pipeline.

Well... Parnell is considering rolling back her oil tax hikes and probably will do so and the trans-Alaskan pipeline is being shelved and looks like it won't happen.

So you tell me, eman.

If her two big achievements were undone by her resignation, you tell me what she runs on.

And you tell me how much ice "attacks on her family" will cut with the public, when they saw Clinton endure (justifiably) an impeachment and embarrassing scandal, or when they saw Bush being pilloried, or when they see Obama's birthplace questioned, etc.

She resigned in order to pursue other interests, such as making money for her family. That is not an unadmirable thing to do. It can be argued that that is the best decisions as far as her family.

But this bullshit that it was all principle, and who cares anyway, and no one could have withstood such horrible attacks... No sale. No sale.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:24 PM (nj1bB)

This is a devastating analysis of why Palin's resignation makes her unelectable as POTUS.

249 Three areas of expertise, Erik. Bulgarian buttermilk knowledge is much respected here, as it should be.

250 Am I required to pretend that the "Resign before the lame-duck term" notion was an idea floating around before Palin thought of it?

Usually pols just completely neglect their current job when they for a higher office. Dick Gephardt missed over 90% of the House roll-call votes during the 2004 primary season.  Barry, Hillary, and McCain weren't much better in 2008.

Which way is more honorable...depends on if you expect your representatives to pretend to represent your are not, I guess.  I don't have that expectation anymore (I don't even expect my state reps to show up to work instead of throwing childish tantrums on Twitter from Illinois).

251 This question bugs me. What is the point of America?

That was profound, and depressing.

252 >>>Hi, have we met?

>>>Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at May 22, 2011 02:48 PM (Mkaih)

People wrongly perceived Obama as sufficiently qualified for the job based on his experience and demeanor.  The media went well out of their way to help with that, even as we on the Right screamed about how unprepared he was for the Presidency.

Now that he's gone and proved exactly that, you want to make the argument that, yeah, qualifications don't matter after all?  Based on the evidence of the Obama years?

You're not even being rational or logical at this point.  You're just grasping for any rhetorical weapon at hand.

253 Clubbers post should be thought about seriously by every one here.

254 Like maybe Bush should have after the 2006 elections, when he entered lame-duck status.

Things might turned out better that way.

255 Play some Thelma Houston and Blue Oyster Cult as bumper music and it will get my conspiracy theory juices flowing. Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 02:45 PM

Strange combination, but whatever floats your boat

256 And you tell me how much ice "attacks on her family" will cut with the public, when they saw Clinton endure (justifiably) an impeachment

I don't recall the Hollywood-Communist media-industrial complex giggling over endless attacks on Chelsea Clinton by her ex-boyfriend, let alone Dave Letterman making rape jokes about her when she was 14.

257 This question bugs me. What is the point of America? Where else can a virile socialist go for a weekend of fun? If you can't even guarantee that, I suggest you have no point any longer.

258

FWIW, my two areas of expertise, boats and golf, are never discussed here (maybe golf, a little). I don't know dick about politics and I know even less about the economy.

Doesn't stop me from posting my ignoramus shit here!

I dated a guy who was just astonished that I could have a conversation with anyone I met. He didn't seem to grasp the fact that people love to espouse their own beliefs. They cannot resist the urge to school another so, you ask them a question. That usually gets them talking. If it doesn't, then play the devil's advocate. They may not want to talk to you, but there's no way in hell there going to let you get away without correcting you.

This was before blogs.

259  Three areas of expertise, Erik. Bulgarian buttermilk knowledge is much respected here, as it should be.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 22, 2011 02:50 PM (XdlcF)

Belgian buttermilk, Mama, Belgian. Dear God, must we go through this again?

260

And it's not limited to the upper echelon of national politics, it trickles down to your community. Usually in the form of state and local employees/bureaucrats. They're better then you.

Posted by: lowandslow at May 22, 2011 02:23 PM (GZitp)

I figured out a long time ago that Soviet Communism was just Monarchy/Nobility disguised as concern for the well being of the peasants. Concern Trolls if you will.

261 I thought Palin resigned because of lawsuits.

262 ace, will you weep as Sarah Palin takes the Oath of Office in 2013? She's not so bad, you know. Let go of your hate.

263 Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 02:44 PM (nj1bB) Never heard the lame duck business. I always figured the resignation was a step towards running for president because it took her out of the cross-hairs of Obama's legal team that was up in KA sniping at her. I think her stated reason for resigning was fairly accurate, with the unstated desire of future office. Obama was gunning to take Palin out at the earliest convenience using whatever means necessary, contrived or not. I am sure that severely restricted what Palin could reasonably expect to accomplish in her remaining term. In *effect* she was a lame duck, but not for electoral reasons, for legal ones. The logical, yet risky, choice - take her governorship out of the equation. I'm sorry - I think her resignation *potentially* shows brains and balls.

264 ace, will you weep as Sarah Palin takes the Oath of Office in 2013?


ohhhh. JBRT. I truly admire your dedication but even I, a fan, just don't see it happening.

265 Now that he's gone and proved exactly that, you want to make the argument that, yeah, qualifications don't matter after all?

The evidence appears to be that qualifications don't seem to matter to a lot of voters, no. "Electability", your little hobby horse, seems to not have a whole lot to do with "qualifications".

266 Posted by: ThomasD at May 22, 2011 02:29 PM (UK5R1)

the Greeks already created that model of monarchy, aristocracy, democracy

Their problem was seeing the 3 as separate and even exclusive.  Reality is that we have a combo of all 3.  Prez as monarch, a government / corporate elite as our aristocracy, and various democratic mechanisms like elections, the media, etc

The Recent Development of Note is that our new aristocracy is getting further and further removed from the Rest of Us, and being more and more Snotty about their new status

267 Clubber Lang, bringing the unpleasant but inescapable truth. We were a nation of ideas, and we have discarded them... or rather, replaced them with a grubby nanny-state entitlement culture that hasn't even the coherence of ethnic ties. The nation truly decided to commit slow-motion suicide years ago, and November 2008 was merely the inky obituary.

268 I don't want to sound like the wet blanket on the flame of nitpicky fun, but voters, even those on our side don't give a shit about anything y'all are debating right now. The average voter doesn't get this nuanced to follow the inside baseball of all the politicking. And it all comes down to one thing - perception; not details. If the candidate can't make him/herself sound competent in a four minute interview on Fox, no amount of blogging from the fanbois is going and fix that person's negatives.

269

ace, will you weep as Sarah Palin takes the Oath of Office in 2013?

She's not so bad, you know.

Let go of your hate.

I'll gladly support Palin when she takes the Oath of Office in 2013 after winning the one election she's fully capable of winning- Scottsdale Dog Catcher.

270 Posted by: alexthedude at May 22, 2011 02:55 PM (EQNrw) Exactly so.

271 And IQ is 60% heritable-- and elite schools and companies double as match-makers which means smart dudes increasingly breed with smart chicks.
So our new aristocracy is increasingly going to be genetically different from the masses.

Autism, rather than hemophilia, is the corrective mechanism for the new inbreeding.

Smart guys need to marry beautiful but slow girls, whose father's own liquor stores.  And vise versa.

272 "Electability", your little hobby horse, seems to not have a whole lot to do with "qualifications".

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 22, 2011 02:56 PM (Mkaih)

Yeah, he's got this stupid hang-up with electability.  Who the hell cares if your candidate is electable or not, amirite?

273 Otherwise don't insult the intelligence of every single living, breathing human being by presuming to compare Sarah Palin favorably to Abraham Lincoln.

Now that's just not fair!  I have a great deal in common with Mrs. Sarah!  I was a huntin' and fishin' snowbilly from the middle of nowhere too, with a can-do you-betcha attitude and a ratings-winning stage show on Springfield local access!  Plus I made several bazillion dollars after quitting my job with Herndon to write a few national best-sellers spotlighting my snarky homespun charm!  Plus I got into brawls with everyone who looked at me funny and amassed a cult of personality who helped me beat down a political opponent who was too short!  Honest Abe 2012, ladies and gents!

274 ohhhh. JBRT. I truly admire your dedication but even I, a fan, just don't see it happening. Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 02:56 PM (piMMO) I have my doubts, too. (See? I don't worship Palin, I just like her.)

275 There are cows everywhere in Belgium.  Milk is plentiful, and goooood

Many Muzzies there are, though.  Many, many Muzzies..........

276

Belgian buttermilk, Mama, Belgian. Dear God, must we go through this again?

Uh oh, I think I have to resign now. Before the law suits start. Can't put the kids through that. Again.

 

277 If the candidate can't make him/herself sound competent in a four minute interview on Fox, no amount of blogging from the fanbois is going and fix that person's negatives.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 22, 2011 02:57 PM (2gNXM)

Did you hear that Ace?  She called you a fanboi.  You know what "boi" is code for, right?

278 Just what the hell do you get for $3000 per night. I am scheduling a trip to NYC for early next month and just for curiosity sake, I checked and could get the Sofitel for less than $400 night (I usually just stay at the Weehawken Sheraton for less than half that, and it's just a ferry ride to the Javits).

For $3000 bucks, it had better come with hot and cold running hookers and and an all you can snort cocaine bar.

279 I'm resigned to the probability that we'll get a bland and meek policy wonk like T-Paw or That Dog Won't Huntsman. Policy wonks excite the pundit class and the political junkies, but the vast majority of the TV watching public aren't political junkies. Just see one segment of "Jaywalking" to confirm.

They'll go for the smiles and speeches as surely as a Moron will go for the blonde with the big tits every time

280 Vote for the real conservative in the race, Bob Dole!  Bob Dole can take on any snowbilly hussy from the tundray because Bob Dole has got what it takes!

281 >>>Have you mentioned this lame-duck scenario before? PALIN herself did. That was one of her stated reasons for feeling it was not a breach to resign. She said she had already determined she would not seek another term, so that made her current service lame-duck in nature, and there was no point in serving as a lame-duck. This is from her own speech, eman.

282 >>>ace, will you weep as Sarah Palin takes the Oath of Office in 2013?

>>>She's not so bad, you know.

>>>Let go of your hate.

Put yourself on record RIGHT NOW: do you honestly think a.) Sarah Palin will run; b.) she will win the GOP nomination; c.) she will win the Presidency?

A is possible, B is remotely possible I suppose, C will never happen in a million years and the fact that you have to fast-forward to the masturbatory fantasies of her already taking office (and skip over the whole icky "winning votes" part) tells me that you subconsciously know that too. 

If not, explain how it happens.  Tell me how the poll numbers shift.  Tell me how she wins over moderates and center-left voters.  Tell me how she convinces people that no, she's not a unintelligent semi-tabloid reality TV star who talks strictly in platitudes and can't string an extemporaneous thought together, but that she's actually Presidential timber.

Hell, just tell me how she convinces the 40% of GOP voters who share this view of that.

Just tell me. Give me some plausible mechanics.  Stop it with the "the tide will change once she campaigns and takes it to Obama and clears up all the misinformation!" bullshit.  I want you, for once, to evince an actual understanding of voter psychology and the brutal math of poll numbers.

P.S. I actually am increasingly convinced that she IS "that bad."

283

This was before blogs.

Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 02:53 PM (piMMO)

That's why I like Ace's place. I love learning new things and it's filled with people who collectively have a full range of knowledge about EVERYTHING!

I'm a shitty mechanic and I've gotten good automotive advice from Morons, for example.

284 For $3000 bucks, it had better come with hot and cold running hookers and and an all you can snort cocaine bar.

Posted by: beedubya at May 22, 2011 03:00 PM (AnTyA)

We need to go to Vegas.

285 Palin Electability is the biggest act of Moron Compulsive Masturbation since Compulsive Masturbation.

286 So, eman, if that is one of her stated reasons, I can examine that reason and make a decision as to whether i think it's true, or important. And if it's not true/not important, then I can inquire as to other reasons she didn't mention.

287 Posted by: toby928™ at May 22, 2011 02:58 PM Jack Webb in the movie "The D. I." makes a comment about the perfect woman being "a good looking, blonde swinger who owns a liquor store..."

288 The Recent Development of Note is that our new aristocracy is getting further and further removed from the Rest of Us, and being more and more Snotty about their new status

Well, in the case of the Hollywood elite, we could stop playing the bullshit line of  Yeah, he's a total asshole but I can separate and admire his talent.

Those bastards keep their status and thus, their soapboxes, because they continue to make money for someone else.

It hasn't been that long ago that "character" was a primary issue in a POTUS election. The sign of things to come was the fact that it was so easily dismissed as irrelevant when we elected a fucking worm.

289 I'll gladly support Palin when she takes the Oath of Office in 2013 after winning the one election she's fully capable of winning- Scottsdale Dog Catcher. Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 22, 2011 02:57 PM (WRW1S) Clever. Can you juggle, too?

290 >>>Just what the hell do you get for $3000 per night. Chocolates on the pillows and a lax policy about forcible sodomy. Worth it.

291 no amount of blogging from the fanbois

I like Fanbois...it's rilly ggod in champagne

292

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 22, 2011 02:59 PM (XdlcF)

LOLZ!

293 I'm resigned to the probability that we'll get a bland and meek policy wonk like T-Paw or That Dog Won't Huntsman. Policy wonks excite the pundit class and the political junkies, but the vast majority of the TV watching public aren't political junkies. Just see one segment of "Jaywalking" to confirm.

I believe Huntsman will be eaten alive. Remember "civility"?

294 I'm resigned to the probability that we'll get a bland and meek policy wonk like T-Paw or That Dog Won't Huntsman. Why settle for wonk when you can have The Hair That Fundraises! Come on. You know you want him.

295 Did I mention my real mom, my fake mom, and my sister were all named Sarah, too?  Sure, they all died horribly in a tragic rail-splitting accident when I was eleven but that experience led to a fascinating few pages of wisdom in my recent national bestseller, New Salem by Heart!  I've got the fire in my belly to be your next president and I put it to all of you; if I HAD another belly do you think I'd be carrying around this one?!

296 223 At Heathrow ( LHR ) there is a separate gate for First Class and Bidness Class going through 'security' and passport control. 

Peasants go through a very long line in a giant room.  Oligarchs and their hirelings have a comfy barely-trafficked gate.  Very quick and cozy.

( stand-by passengers get a First Class boarding pass, so I get to live vicariously and see how my Betters do things )

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, Master of the Pan flute at May 22, 2011 02:43 PM (UqKQV)

--I actually like that about LHR.   That's why the honeymoon flight had to be First Class.  Either it'sd better than coach in many ways, or it's not worth the miles.  (Hey, I like First Class, but why pay outright for it?)

297 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:01 PM (hIWe1)

Jeff B., Bob Dole is not impressed by your rigid adherence to things like poll numbers and electoral strategies.  The public will flock to Bob Dole because Bob Dole has the charisma and the experience to win this time!  Give Bob Dole a second chance

298 >>>Just what the hell do you get for $3000 per night. Chocolates on the pillows and a lax policy about forcible sodomy. You can keep the chocolates.

299 /dipshit "member of the elite" sock

300

I love Sarah Palin.  I think she's a true conservative and she says all the right things.  That being said, she can't win.  She is too polarizing and indies won't vote for her.  Gimme someone who can win, and I'll back him/her.  This election is too important.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at May 22, 2011 02:49 PM (zgZzy)

Chris Christie.  Make the fat man run

301 RE: Palin.  I'm not the hugest fan, but I'd hit it like the Red Army hit Berlin.  More to the point, I'll never bash her,  I'll never say so much as an unfriendly word about her.  The MFM and the Left do enough of that.  And I like talking her up to lefties and watching their heads explode.  Why bash her?  Especially if you think she'll never get elected in a million years.  She's got enough people ripping her to shreds, no need to prove your credentials by dogging her too.

302 Bob Dole does not appreciate people impersonating Bob Dole. Only Bob Dole is the real Bob Dole. Bob Dole would accept no substitutes.

303 It hasn't been that long ago that "character" was a primary issue in a POTUS election.

Bob Dole has loads of character!  Just ask Libby!  Bob Dole's character, plus a few boner pills, are all that's required to make Libby happy, and that's what Bob Dole will do for America too!

304

I'm a shitty mechanic and I've gotten good automotive advice from Morons, for example.

Posted by: ErikW at May 22, 2011 03:01 PM

So did your insurance cover the engine fire?

305 Oh, POOP.  Jemmy Polk is being mean to me for things I said about the Mexican War so I've scheduled a rambling press conference for tomorrow explaining why I have to resign my congressional seat.

But I'll be back!

306 Posted by: Bob Dole at May 22, 2011 03:06 PM (AZGON)

Bob Dole will accept no impersonators!  Vote for the real Bob Dole, the one sporting the 4-hour woody!

307 To JeffB, I think she has been running for POTUS since July 2009. I think she can win. To ace, The lame duck issue is paramount in your mind? It's a factor in her decision so it must be the overwhelming driving force? Perhaps you are focusing on it because you need to do so in order to justify your contempt for her. These lawsuits and their consequences were just a minor co-incidence that she could transform into a convenient exaggeration?

308 I hates it mighty powerful but things seem more and more like Ann Coulter is correct. The Republicans will nominate a Romney or Pawlenty and lose in 2012. Can't beat something with nothing, and unless Barry makes some truly spectacular cock-ups he will win by default. The devil you know, and so forth.

309 Vote for the real Bob Dole, the one sporting the 4-hour woody! I always confuse Dole with DSK.

310

Never heard the lame duck business. I always figured the resignation was a step towards running for president because it took her out of the cross-hairs of Obama's legal team that was up in KA sniping at her.

If she resigned with the thought that it would help her chances of running for President, she should be disregarded out of sheer stupidity. 

Resigning mid-term in response to ethics complaints (bogus or not), then going on the reality TV / money making circuit was about the worst thing she could do in terms of advancing ambitions towards the Presidency.

I seriously doubt she was that dumb.  She had a choice between governing a backwater state while putting up with ethics charges and relentless media scrutiny for a lousy $125,000 a year, or leave that bullshit behind and make millions.  She chose the latter, despite the very negative implications that would have towards any future political career.

311 i'm telling ya, there's money to be made plus a boatload of comedy to be produced by some moron willing to purchase the draftbobdole.com domain name

312 >>>Why bash her?  Especially if you think she'll never get elected in a million years.  She's got enough people ripping her to shreds, no need to prove your credentials by dogging her too.

I guess I sometimes criticize her in the hopes of waking up Palin-boosters to her flaws, 'turning' them away from the Dark Side, so to speak.  Isn't that why anybody does something like that?  I want to convince them.

Failing that, I want to take my frustrations out on her online boosters, who have done everything they possibly can to toxify ALL OTHER PLAUSIBLE CANDIDATES (including spreading outright lies about them in order to tarnish their conservative creds) in a desperate attempt to boost St. Sarah above all others.  My attitude is becoming one of "fuck it, if they want to slime everyone then I'll tell the truth about Palin and see what they think of that." 

It's additionally satisfying because, unlike the phony, manufactured lies spread about people like Christie or Daniels, I'm actually telling the truth about Palin.  That's the thing: you don't have to make shit up about her in order to demonstrate her unelectability and unfitness for office.

Still, I'd vote for her if we decided to commit suicide and nominate her.

313 Still, I'd vote for her if we decided to commit suicide and nominate her.

That's the spirit which will put Bob Dole over the top in 2012!

314 These lawsuits and their consequences were just a minor co-incidence that she could transform into a convenient exaggeration?
Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 22, 2011 03:08 PM (AYNHC)

Oh for crying out load, they weren't lawsuits they were ethics complaints. And they weren't the result of Obama's secret legal team trying to cut her off at the knees, they were the result of a piss poor ethics process and a few disgruntled whack jobs.

315 It hasn't been that long ago that "character" was a primary issue in a POTUS election. The sign of things to come was the fact that it was so easily dismissed as irrelevant when we elected a fucking worm.

Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 03:01 PM (piMMO) 

'The Atlantic' magazine had a really good cover story ( half the magazine ) a few years ago about "the new ruling class".  It compared the weird mix of talented achievers and the inbred stupidity of our new Oligarchs with the virtues of the early 1900s elite.

They emphasized character, and ambition restrained by a sense of 'noblesse oblige'.  Now we get techno-wonks working sixty hour weeks sharing power with a lazy stupid amoral inbred group of dipshits

316 Admiral, I'm getting a message from the USS Sofitel. They say their Chambermaid's Coil is overloading their system ...

317 >>> If it doesn't, then play the devil's advocate. They may not want to talk to you, but there's no way in hell there going to let you get away without correcting you. Right-o on asking questions. Works every time I remember to do it. On the "devil's advocate," i have to note that in my new fave, Sherlock (aka the best tv show in the history of history), Holmes gets a reluctant witness to tell him things by stating facts he is guessing are wrong. Later he tells Watson: "People don't like telling you things but they love to contradict you."

318 I guess I sometimes criticize her in the hopes of waking up Palin-boosters to her flaws, 'turning' them away from the Dark Side, so to speak.  Isn't that why anybody does something like that?  I want to convince them.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:11 PM (hIWe1)

OK, good points, except maybe this.  Pretty sure there's no talking any Palin fan out of it at this point.

319 I guess I sometimes criticize her in the hopes of waking up Palin-boosters to her flaws, 'turning' them away from the Dark Side, so to speak.  Isn't that why anybody does something like that?  I want to convince them.

Fly...honey...vinegar.

Some assembly required.

320 >>> hates it mighty powerful but things seem more and more like Ann Coulter is correct. The Republicans will nominate a Romney or Pawlenty and lose in 2012. How dare you add to Ann's comment. She said they'd nominate Romney and lose. She did not disqualify T-Paw in this way. Just kidding about the how dare you, but she didn't include T-Paw.

321 301 RE: Palin.  I'm not the hugest fan, but I'd hit it like the Red Army hit Berlin.  More to the point, I'll never bash her,  I'll never say so much as an unfriendly word about her.  The MFM and the Left do enough of that.  And I like talking her up to lefties and watching their heads explode.  Why bash her?  Especially if you think she'll never get elected in a million years.  She's got enough people ripping her to shreds, no need to prove your credentials by dogging her too.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 22, 2011 03:06 PM (1fanL)

--I'm with you there.  To me, even the sell-outs on our side like Grahamnesty aren't as fun to bash as Demotards.  Let's leave the Sarah-bashing to the Kos Klowns and DUmmies.

322 I want to convince them.

Because you're going all logic and reason on their ass, albeit in an eleventy way, but the power of the poon and all that. That's an uphill battle. That's why even discussing this is a time suck.

You actually think any of these guys would waste their breathe on her if she looked like Jean Schmidt?

323 >>>That's the spirit which will put Bob Dole over the top in 2012!

Isn't that sort of the point?  If you've managed to nominate someone who the vast majority of Republicans (and not just some much smaller "TrueCon" sliver) have to hold their nose in order to vote for, then yeah...you've lost the election.  Because let me tell you, Palin will be lucky to win 80% support from Republican voters, to say nothing of independents, centrists, and moderate Dems.  She ain't getting ANY of those.

324 You actually think any of these guys would waste their breathe on her if she looked like Jean Schmidt?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 22, 2011 03:15 PM (2gNXM)

You've got that right.

325 Because you're going all logic and reason on their ass, albeit in an eleventy way, but the power of the poon and all that.

Do not let the power of the poon dissuade you from voting for the one true conservative in the race, Bob Dole!

326 308 I hates it mighty powerful but things seem more and more like Ann Coulter is correct. The Republicans will nominate a Romney or Pawlenty and lose in 2012. Can't beat something with nothing, and unless Barry makes some truly spectacular cock-ups he will win by default. The devil you know, and so forth. Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 03:08 PM

Who outside of the political junkies even know who Mittens and T-Paw are?

The public will get to know them through the MBM, the Daily Show, Leno and Letterman, and Glee

Yeh, I can see this is going to work out wonderfully

327 the perfect woman being "a good looking, blonde swinger who owns a liquor store..."

Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 03:01 PM (AZGON)

Woody Woodbury sez

==I finally found the perfect girl

A girl I just adore

She's deaf and dumb and over-sexed

and owns a liquor store==

( if you're old enough to remember Woody Woodbury, you're gonna be dead soon )

328 Later he tells Watson: "People don't like telling you things but they love to contradict you."

Psychology.

329 Yeah the new ruling class is a weird mix of high-IQ, hard-working technocrats, old money dipshits, and celebrity-lottery winners.

(With celebrities - actors, singers, reality stars, etc -- I think it's basically a matter of luck who hits big and becomes huge and influential. With actors and singers there's a minimum talent requirement, but tens of thousands meet the minimum, so it's mainly luck and who gets the breaks. With reality tv there's no longer even a minimum talent requirement.)

330 You actually think any of these guys would waste their breathe on her if she looked like Jean Schmidt?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 22, 2011 03:15 PM (2gNXM)

Oops.  Time to trim the claws.  But really it's what you said a minute ago.  We're these obsessive kooks who know some tiny amount of stuff about politics.  While the vast majority not only don't give a shit, but are proud that they don't give a shit.  So, a pretty face can win their vote.  PALIN IN '12!!1!

331
@AbeLouLinc
KS/NE Act is CRAP and I would know because I live next door to a state thats next door to Kan. House, div, stand, all that good stuff. '56 or bust.

332

To JeffB,

I think she has been running for POTUS since July 2009. I think she can win.

Dude... no matter how hard you try, she still isn't going to let you fuck her.  You just seem desperate now.

If she's been running since July 2009, she's been doing a terribly shitty job of it- her approval ratings have declined, not improved since then.

333 Would anyone have wasted any breath on Obama if he wasn't milk chocolate?

334 316 Admiral, I'm getting a message from the USS Sofitel. They say their Chambermaid's Coil is overloading their system ...

Her coil emissions are normal.

335 Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 22, 2011 02:54 PM (AYNHC)

I disagree with Ace about many things, and as the host of this blog he tolerates a lot of shit that he probably wouldn't in any other forum, for instance in a bar. But extrapolating his justifiable pessimism about a Palin win in 2012 to  the assumption that he would not be happy with Palin as president is simply lazy argument.

336 >>>The lame duck issue is paramount in your mind? It's a factor in her decision so it must be the overwhelming driving force? I didn't say overwhelming driving force. It is the record, however. She said it. No, I don't believe it is a good reason or an actual reason. The world has seen thousands and thousands of elected officials and few, if any, resigned a term on the theory "I'm a lame-duck anyway." No one ever suggested that would be a good idea.* * Actually that's kind of not true, as people do point out the second term for most presidents lacks energy and accomplishment and is almost always marked by scandal. But what they propose is not resignation, but not permitting a second term at all, or making it a single 5-year term. >>>Perhaps you are focusing on it because you need to do so in order to justify your contempt for her. I focus on it because it doesn't make sense and therefore suggests other reasons are animating the choice. I also focus on it because governing, as a governor, I mean, is the absolute gold standard of presidential qualification and we all know that. We all want a governor more than anyone else. (ALl other things being equal.) So to claim that Palin's major qualification is being a governor, but also that her resignation from the very office that qualifies her is NO BIG DEAL, is very very inconsistent. >>>These lawsuits and their consequences were just a minor co-incidence that she could transform into a convenient exaggeration? They were a factor in deciding "I don't need this crap," which is understandable, but also a bad choice if she actually was entertaining a future run. As far as I'm concerned she made her choice then. No take-backs.

337 Strauss-Khan: You see, my "French tickler" enters despite your tears and wraps itself around your cervix. This has the effect of rendering the victim extremely susceptible to socialism or venereal disease. Later, as it grows, follows madness and a really fabulous orgasm. Chambermaid: Khan, listen to me... Strauss-Khan: It is my pet, of course. Not quite domesticated.

338

I seriously doubt she was that dumb.  She had a choice between governing a backwater state while putting up with ethics charges and relentless media scrutiny for a lousy $125,000 a year, or leave that bullshit behind and make millions.  She chose the latter, despite the very negative implications that would have towards any future political career.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 22, 2011 03:09 PM (WRW1S)

--I agree.  I like Sarah, but I like her where she is.  I'm reminded of OBC, Steve Spurrier.  back in the '90s when the Gators were regularly contending for titles, he would often say something outrageous, such as accusing the 'Noles of deliberately trying to injure opposing QBs.  I hated him back then (of course), but it was genius on his part because running his mouth was --still is, with South Carolina-- a great way to focus the media spotlight on him and take pressure off his players.  Sarah can do that now, if she and her team are crafty enough to keep arm's length between herself and the candidate(s).

339 Would anyone have wasted any breath on Obama if he wasn't milk chocolate?

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, Master of the Pan flute at May 22, 2011 03:19 PM (UqKQV)

We should nominate Cain.  What would the MFM do?  Their brains would short-circuit and they'd all need feeding tubes.

340 You actually think any of these guys would waste their breathe on her if she looked like Jean Schmidt?

The onliest thing ima say on this is that Liz Cheney ain't exactly worthy of Jack Stuef's advances....but I love that woman

341 Who outside of the political junkies even know who Mittens and T-Paw are? The public will get to know them through the MBM, the Daily Show, Leno and Letterman, and Glee Yeh, I can see this is going to work out wonderfully I'm stocking up on ethanol and blinders.

342 So did your insurance cover the engine fire?

Posted by: kbdabear at May 22, 2011 03:07 PM (vdfwz)

HA! No but the short cut did save me about ten bucks.

343 Just kidding about the how dare you, but she didn't include T-Paw.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 03:15 PM

Ace, for all your excitement over T-Paw, take a picture of him and show it to people in a bar in NYC.  Ask if they know who he is. Or just ask people if they know who he is.

Most won't know, but if he's elected he'll be defined by the MBM. No matter how his policies might give you the Sean Bielat woody, the vast nonpolitical voter will see a bland guy who looks bland, and wants to starve teachers, cops, poor Hispanic children, puppies, kittens, and blacks just to give tax cuts to the rich.

And T-Paw won't fight back, other than to explain his policies in either a snoozer debate which the MBM will lie about in coverage, or with tv ads that run while people are texting or going to the bathroom

344 Steve Spurrier.  back in the '90s when the Gators were regularly contending for titles, he would often say something outrageous, such as accusing the 'Noles of deliberately trying to injure opposing QBs. 

Posted by: logprof at May 22, 2011 03:21 PM (BP6Z1)

I take a back seat to no one when it comes to hating Spermburper, but he was right about the 'Noles.

345 Later, as it grows, follows madness and a really fabulous orgasm.

Tell me about it.

346
It's additionally satisfying because, unlike the phony, manufactured lies spread about people like Christie

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:11 PM (hIWe1)

¡We still heeere, Señor!

347 Posted by: FUBAR at May 22, 2011 03:21 PM (1fanL)

The MBM has no problem ripping up any Black who has the temerity to step off the liberal plantation and have some thoughts of his own.

Cain would be vilified, perhaps more than any other candidate, with the possible exception of Jeb Bush.

348 >>>The onliest thing ima say on this is that Liz Cheney ain't exactly worthy of Jack Stuef's advances Oh I'd hit that. I'd hit that like a French bureaucrat on an expense account.

349 >>>Ace, for all your excitement over T-Paw, take a picture of him and show it to people in a bar in NYC. Ask if they know who he is. Or just ask people if they know who he is. They didn't know who Palin was in 2007 so your effort to demonstrate "We must elect the person with high (and negative) name ID" fails.

350 This "public servant" (or years of "public service" stuff is bullshit. Did they flippen do it for free? They get paid WELL, have better benefits than most, holidays, cars, and golden pension plans. It's a job like any other and they don't deserve any more respect or accolades than a garbage collector. The military can be raised to a much higher esteem based on the risk, the sacrifice and the lousy pay.

351 back in the '90s when the Gators were regularly contending for titles,

One, two, fee, fo, fibe
Da Flada gatas don't take no jibe

352 Ooh, that Bull Run thing didn't go well.  Damn it.  Everyone's gonna be all up in my shit now.

John, call a press conference tomorrow so I can turn this sucker over to Hamlin.  He'll continue this war stuff.  Easy-peasy.

353 I'd hit Liz Cheney like Roman Polanski at a Christmas pageant.

354 nominate Cain.  What would the MFM do?  Their brains would short-circuit and they'd all need feeding tubes.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 22, 2011 03:21 PM (1fanL)

They would tear into him like they did with Clarence Thomas.  High tech lynching 2.0.

If you're Black and conservative, the whole AffAction meme goes away

355 351 back in the '90s when the Gators were regularly contending for titles,

One, two, fee, fo, fibe
Da Flada gatas don't take no jibe

Posted by: Rep. Corrine Brown (Dumbass) -FL at May 22, 2011 03:26 PM (AnTyA)

Go Gata!!!!

356 They didn't know who Palin was in 2007 so your effort to demonstrate "We must elect the person with high (and negative) name ID" fails.

But people did know who McCain was in 2007 - a mavericky maverick who was liked by independents because he did maverick things.  Look how that turned out.  I agree that the MBM will do their best to smear T-Paw and it will be easier to do than it was for McCain because they are starting from a blank slate this time.  But the MBM will smear ANY Republican candidate so worrying about it is kinda useless.

357 >>>Oh I'd hit that. I'd hit that like a French bureaucrat on an expense account.

I ran into her in the airport a couple months ago (she was flying to Colorado with her kids for winter vacation).  She's a very pleasant and friendly lady in person. 

Just trying to fan the flames of your desire, Ace.

358 I'd hit Liz Cheney like Roman Polanski at a Christmas pageant.

Nice.  Depraved but nice.

359 Oops.  Time to trim the claws.

Well that's some bullshit right there.

Sexuality is a mighty powerful thing. She's fine to use it if she likes. She won't be taken seriously if she overplays her hand. But she's free to do it. At which point she becomes fair game and anyone else is free to criticize her when she goes all 'presidential' and wears the 'sexy little red monkey heels' and blows her kisses and winks.

Why don't you go find me some polls to support your contention indicating that independents (hell, conservatives in the primary) would cast their vote based off her 'pretty face'.

Get real.

360 Cain really disappointed me this morning. He looked confused when Chris Wallace asked him about the Israel/Palestinian claim of "right to return"...and then saying the exact opposite of what BiBi said about it yesterday.

I really have no one whom I can support right now

361 kbdabear, Palin supporters, having little to hang their hats on, always wind up making the strange case that all that matters is celebrity and excitement level, because that's what Palin has. When all you have is a hammer and a wrench, all the world looks like nails and bolts. The two things she has in her toolkit are the only things you believe are important qualifications. All the other tools in someone's toolbox? A record? Achievements? Persuasiveness? Policy fluency? You just keep ignoring those because you know your gal don't got 'em. Well, they mattered pre-Palin and I assure you that despite your lobbying on the point they still matter post-Palin.

362 "172 Pretty good post Ace. A lot of people are echoing this sentiment right now. We are facing the re-imposition of the Monarchy/Nobility form of Government. That is *IT* in a nut shell. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at May 22, 2011 02:19 PM (PF2Cj)" Plus they are expanding the middle management ranks so that lots more people think they are special. See Eric Holder's hires. Also Ace, lot's of the underlings are eager to be bought off easily rather than prosecuting the criminals.

363 If she resigned with the thought that it would help her chances of running for President, she should be disregarded out of sheer stupidity. Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 22, 2011 03:09 PM (WRW1S) I am pretty positive that my post said it was logical, but risky. Let's play poker sometime...

364 Sexuality is a mighty powerful thing. She's fine to use it if she likes.

That's the Bob Dole strategy right there - vote for the real true conservative and the studliest lover in the country, Bob Dole!

_{(This message brought to you by Pfizer)}

365 Monsieur, the security staff's cameras are still down ...

366 360 Cain really disappointed me this morning. He looked confused when Chris Wallace asked him about the Israel/Palestinian claim of "right to return"...and then saying the exact opposite of what BiBi said about it yesterday.

I really have no one whom I can support right now

Posted by: beedubya at May 22, 2011 03:29 PM (AnTyA)

Oh shit.

You'd think he'd have people on his team prepping him on that, given that it was the hot item of the last few days.

367 >>>A record? Achievements? Persuasiveness? Policy fluency? You just keep ignoring those because you know your gal don't got 'em.

>>>Well, they mattered pre-Palin and I assure you that despite your lobbying on the point they still matter post-Palin.

In fact, in the current electoral climate, they matter far, far more.  That's the kicker, really.

368 In any case, I have only liked Cain as an idealistic pick, not a serious contender.  I'd love for him or Allen West to do the keynote at the convention next year though.  Get teh base fired up.

369 Palin did the smart thing by quitting being Governor -- she's very, very rich now. I would have made the same decision, and accepted the fact that that probably kills any future political career. She cashed in on the media hate and jiu-jitsued her way to wealth.

Left-wingers cash in on politics by occasionally leaving politics and getting set-up with cozy, high-paying non-jobs. Look at Rahm Emmanuel's career. Or Michelle Obama. Board seats, law partners, etc. The right does this, too, although not as well.

Palin was demonized by the Left and not accepted by the establishment right. So the normal ways to cash in on politics weren't available and she found a third way -- which was to cash in on her celebrity. Tina Fey made Palin hated ... but rich.

Remember, when she did all this her future in politics looked very bleak indeed. I would have made the exact same decision. I like Palin. I agree with her on most issues. I admire how she turned the tables on her sworn enemies. I would vote for her. But I don't think a majority would, so I'll support somebody else in the primary.

370 I'd love for him or Allen West to do the keynote at the convention next year though.  Get teh base fired up.

Nothing fires up the base more than the Bob Dole True Conservative Stud Muffin Express!

371 >>>Oh shit.

>>>You'd think he'd have people on his team prepping him on that, given that it was the hot item of the last few days.

I watched it on TV and it was terrible, terrible...a real "Jesus wept" moment.

Predictably, there were some here in the other thread who instantly started shrieking that Chris Wallace is really an evil MSM libtard who hates Republicans and asks mean "gotcha" questions.  Which may be true, for all I know (actually I know it isn't, but I'll grant the point for the sake of argument).  But this?  This wasn't a gotcha question.  It was basic fucking stuff.  And Cain came across as tragically uneducated.

372

It is a bit unfair to pick on just the Palin supporters because it is a larger current in the Republican Party that just ignores that the electorate isn't what they want it to be.

For fiscal conservatism to be viable on the national level, we need a electoral realignment. It is tough, but it has to happen. The current Republican base of older social conservative, fiscally moderate voters and evangelical voters (with a wish of never really materializing Hispanic votes) is not going to usher in an era of fiscal responsibility.

The Rove plan failed. It is time to reorganize the party.

373 You all know it's gonna be Romney unless someone convinces Christie to run

Don't start heading for cliffs:  Prez re-elections are 90% about the current Prez

Everyone here likes Reagan now, but 1980 was about Carter--not Reagan.

Reagan won New York and New Jersey and other 'blue states' because so many people were sick of Carter and didn't want him to continue as Prez--not because they knew and wanted Reagan.

2012 will be about Hussein, and he's toast.  Too many people want him gone. If Romney runs a decent campaign he will win.  Game over, man.

374 Well that's some bullshit right there.

Sexuality is a mighty powerful thing. She's fine to use it if she likes. She won't be taken seriously if she overplays her hand. But she's free to do it. At which point she becomes fair game and anyone else is free to criticize her when she goes all 'presidential' and wears the 'sexy little red monkey heels' and blows her kisses and winks.

Why don't you go find me some polls to support your contention indicating that independents (hell, conservatives in the primary) would cast their vote based off her 'pretty face'.

Get real.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 22, 2011 03:29 PM (2gNXM)

Oops, maybe a little more trimming.  And to support my contention, I would cite...you?  Isn't that what you just said?  Perception?  Four minutes of face time makes a candidate?

And just for the record, I wasn't seriously accusing you of being jealous of SP.

375 Bob Dole is now off to give some 4-hour lovin' to Libby!  Remember don't let Bob Dole down, Bob Dole's counting on you

376 >>>2012 will be about Hussein, and he's toast.  Too many people want him gone. If Romney runs a decent campaign he will win.  Game over, man.

Except he's at nearly 50% approval in every poll.  You are projecting your own disgust onto an electorate that, for whatever reason (and we could debate this forever) DOESN'T FEEL THE SAME WAY.  Yet. 

That's the problem.

377 They didn't know who Palin was in 2007 so your effort to demonstrate "We must elect the person with high (and negative) name ID" fails. Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 03:25 PM

That's not my point, and I'm hoping that Palin doesn't actually run for the nomination. She's better as a distraction to take the heat off of the actual frontrunners.  I'm more inclined towards Cain, Christie, or if he ran Marco Rubio

I'm just saying here and now that despite your enthusiasm for T-Paw, you're looking at him through a political junkies eyes. I'm afraid that in the end, you'll be disappointed as you were with Sean Bielat.

The public didn't know Palin in 2007, and how did they get to know her? Through Katie Couric and Tina Fey.

Your witness, counselor

378 So many people are saying that this election is just about Obama, not really about who the Republicans nominate. If that is the case, why is there a huge gap between how Obama polls against Romney/Huckabee and Trump/Palin? Obviously our candidate matters.

379 Predictably, there were some here in the other thread who instantly started shrieking that Chris Wallace is really an evil MSM libtard who hates Republicans and asks mean "gotcha" questions.  Which may be true, for all I know (actually I know it isn't, but I'll grant the point for the sake of argument).  But this?  This wasn't a gotcha question.  It was basic fucking stuff.  And Cain came across as tragically uneducated.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:35 PM (hIWe1)

--Yeah, it would be one thing if he had not bloody declared his candidacy yesterday.  The implication is that he's minimally up to speed, and has competent advisors who would know how not to offend primary voters.

380 Later he tells Watson: "People don't like telling you things but they love to contradict you."

Stated much more succinctly than could I.

381 BTW, I don't think Palin "uses" her sexuality anymore than someone who's tall "uses" his height. She is sexy. That's what she is. That's not "using" it per se. She's not really flouting it. She's got a pretty face, nice curves, good legs, and big tits. It's just the fact of the matter. She could dress in unflattering, shapeless clothes, I suppose. But then, a tall man could wear de-elevating shoes, ones with hardly any sole whatsoever, to appear shorter. Who would suggest such a thing?

382 Ace, for all your excitement over T-Paw, take a picture of him and show it to people in a bar in NYC. Ask if they know who he is. Or just ask people if they know who he is.

I'm guessing you've never watched Jaywalk on Leno. Half those people can't identify Hillary Clinton or Colin Powell in a lineup, so...

383 Bloody peasants!!!111!!!!

384 And again, Reagan was not some political outsider in 1979. He polled ahead of all of the other Republican candidates the entire year before the primary election.

385 Posted by: Rep. Corrine Brown (Dumbass) -FL at May 22, 2011 03:26 PM (AnTyA)

How dare you mock my lying cheating stealing bribe-taking bitch on heels congresswoman!

386 >>>I'm just saying here and now that despite your enthusiasm for T-Paw, you're looking at him through a political junkies eyes. I'm afraid that in the end, you'll be disappointed as you were with Sean Bielat. Okay, kbdabear, sorry for missing your point and imputing a false motive to you. But I just go to my backup explanation: Anyone who is nominated will have 99.5% name ID by August 2012. It is the way it works. No one knew the following people: Huckabee Palin Romney Obama in 2007, either, but they sure as shit know them now.

387

The Rove plan failed. It is time to reorganize the party.

Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 03:36 PM

How can you say I failed, I'm the ARCHITECT!!!

Reorganize THIS, you teabagger scum, I'm just an analyst doing my job of barring the door to new blood

388 It wasn't sodomy-sodomy! It was just economist sodomy.

389 The new aristocracy is not high-IQ.  It is 'those who think right', and are thus marked 'intelligent'.

Hollyweird is straight up new aristocracy, but I'd challenge you to show a majority are anything other than dumb as posts.  The folks that get elected have 'the right attributes', i.e., education, work in select 'causes', fashionable identities, and so forth.

Saying these folks are 'more intelligent' is just falling for what they're putting out there.  They aren't.  They do possess a dangerous cunning, and a minimum of limits as to what they will or won't do to get what they want.

390 Except he's at nearly 50% approval in every poll.  You are projecting your own disgust onto an electorate that, for whatever reason (and we could debate this forever) DOESN'T FEEL THE SAME WAY.  Yet. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:38 PM (hIWe1)

Not disgusted.  Stoic.  I don't want Romney, but will take him--and vote for him, like a majority of other people next year.  Because the Alternative is Obama.

Voting is choosing the Lesser of Two Weevils

His approval ratings, from what I've read, are in the mid / lower 40s -- and on a Downward Slope

391

I am pretty positive that my post said it was logical, but risky.

Let's play poker sometime...

Except it wasn't at all logical in context of having Presidential ambitions.

Your post was yet another example of "If Palin does it, it's awesome" syndrome.

Ace's point above was that none of her supporters were suggesting that she should resign before she did so.  Had you suggested it to them, they most likely would've called you an idiot.  Only after she resigned was it the Most Genius Thing Ever.

Same with everything she does- avoiding interviews in non-friendly venues?  Genius!  Getting into the mud with the likes of Kathy Griffin?  Genius!  Doing reality TV?  Genius!  Lending high-profile support to Ms. I Am Not A Witch, Send Money Now?  Genius!  If she shows up on live TV strangling a kitten to death while snorting coke off a dead hobo?  Genius!

392 >>>And again, Reagan was not some political outsider in 1979. He polled ahead of all of the other Republican candidates the entire year before the primary election.

So many people in these comment threads seem to think that Ronald Reagan materialized out of thin air in 1976 or something.  Reagan was arguably the most experienced candidate in the entire field in 1980, with two successful terms governing the most important state in America, plus a consequential stint as the leader of an important labor union and a high-profile job with GE. (Howard Baker would've been the runner-up, but he was Senate Minority Leader and didn't have any executive experience).  He wasn't just some True Conservative noble savage emerging from the Goldwaterian jungles of 1964.

393

Obama had 80% name recognition in Feb, 2007. This outsider stuff was mainly just in comparison to Clinton. It is really tough to be a genuine outsider in politics.

394 >>>You all know it's gonna be Romney unless someone convinces Christie to run Not unless Romney really demonstrates some political skill that I haven't seen so far. Maybe if he runs as the Real Romney and stops pretending not to be smart he'll be better and also more authentic. But going as he's going, I think he's a bit of a paper tiger. Let's not forget he was in a strong position in 2008, too. Stronger, in fact, in as much as RomneyCare was generally viewed as a positive. Well, he lost in 2008. He lost to a man the party doesn't like very much. But now he's like golden? I don't buy that. I think his support is somewhat wide and a inch deep. He is a good default candidate, but a default candidate only wins if no one else can seize the thing.

395 211

Buzzion, I was trying to tease you. Pretending you'd said something like "we are not schizophrenic" or something.

Posted by: Mama AJ, not quitting her day job at May 22, 2011 02:36 PM (XdlcF)

See if I was a professional psychologist I probably would have gotten the joke

396 I really have no one whom I can support right now

Anyone but Obama!

397 382 Ace, for all your excitement over T-Paw, take a picture of him and show it to people in a bar in NYC. Ask if they know who he is. Or just ask people if they know who he is.

I'm guessing you've never watched Jaywalk on Leno. Half those people can't identify Hillary Clinton or Colin Powell in a lineup, so...
Posted by: Clueless at May 22, 2011 03:41 PM

Yet they still vote, and they are encouraged to do so

What was scary about "Judy" from yesterday was not so much that she was a trolling Dem operative, but the possibility that she was actually just another apolitical voter who bases her "knowledge" on the illusions crafted by the elite in the MBM/Hollywood propaganda machine

398 When I make a fortune I'm going to go to Berlitz to learn italian Try Rosetta Stone. No, seriously. My mother is a first generation American. But my grandparents insisted on "Americanizing" their children and rarely spoke Italian once they emigrated. My mother wanted to learn Italian so we bought her the Rosetta stone system for her 60th birthday. She has become quite proficient in the language.

399 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:45 PM (hIWe1)

True, but he was portrayed as a 'hard right' guy who was too Hard Right to get the nomination from Ford in 1976.  He was known, but was out of political office from 1974 to 1980, and was shown in the media as the spokesman for the 'right wing' of the Republican Party.

Yet, he carried New York ( ! ).  Lotsa folks in NY were voting against Carter, with no substantive knowledge of who Reagan was.  He wasn't Carter.

400 Folks...what's going to happen is that we're going to get a less- than -ideal candidate, and that person will be running against Obama and the media.

Let's hash it out without overly trashing any of them. We'll see enough of that form the other side.

..^{.unless  Fuckabee changes his mind and decides to waddle in after all...man I hate that dick}

401 Yet, he carried New York ( ! ).  Lotsa folks in NY were voting against Carter, with no substantive knowledge of who Reagan was.  He wasn't Carter.

A lot of people will be voting against Obama this time. Hell, even the celebutards are starting to line up.

402 a default candidate only wins if no one else can seize the thing.

Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 03:45 PM (nj1bB)

Which is why I want Christie or Ryan to Seize the Thing.  I'm thinking wishfully about Romney, and probably wrong.  Where are those cliffs?

403 That's not "using" it per se. She's not really flouting it.

My point was that she's fanatically supported like no other potential candidate because of that sexuality.

Why do you think her biggest fans are men?

Women were on board at first just because she bought some excitement as a female candidate. But she's fizzled in a lot of aspects and women are looking elsewhere. And who's still singing her praises?? Mostly men.

404

--Yeah, it would be one thing if he had not bloody declared his candidac>. The implication is that he's minimally up to speed, and has competent advisors who would know how not to offend primary voters.

He's been unofficially running for months, and already has one debate under his belt.

If he's not prepared to answer hot-topic questions by now, it's not for lack of time to bone up on the major issues of the day.

405 >>>Yet, he carried New York ( ! ).  Lotsa folks in NY were voting against Carter, with no substantive knowledge of who Reagan was.  He wasn't Carter.

He carried New York in a different demographic and ideological era.  He could never carry it now.  We are both ethnically FAR different than we were in 1980, and FAR FAR FAR more ideologically polarized.  That's a fact that is often forgotten as well.

406 Palin works best as a tease to keep the MBM Dirt Machine aimed at the wrong target.  As long as she's the primary target, the ingrained Alinsky doctrine of the MBM will keep the heat off the serious candidates.

Think of Sarah Palin as the USS Constellation, battered but still able to distract the Doomsday Machine away from the Enterprise

407

What do states Reagan carried in 1980 have anything to do with this election?

There are no clear political lessons to be learned from an election over 30 years ago with an entirely different electorate. Think the Republican candidate is going to win California by 15 points as well in 2012?

408 >>>My point was that she's fanatically supported like no other potential candidate because of that sexuality. >>>Why do you think her biggest fans are men? I disagree, and I'll tell you why I think she's got such a grip on people. It's the flip-side of what I say about liberals and palin. That they're frozen in time at that RNC speech when she scared the living shit out of them. When they saw their dreams die. They are frozen in the moment of terror (which then quickly became hatred). That emotional moment imprinted on them. The flip side of that is Palin's supporters. They too are frozen in that moment. They are frozen in the opposite emotional state, that of elation, of sudden, unexpected hope, of a bizarre and truly unpredictable Hollywood ending in which all seems lost and then suddenly from out of nowhere comes a Hero. That imprinted on them, too. And they'll always thank her for that. Well, we'll all always thank her for that. She was the only good thing in 2008. (At least for a while.) But my belief is that that impression, powerfully made and deeply embedded, is continuing to drive the train here, and that all contrary signals since then are diminished/discarded in favor of the original powerful stimulus of hope.

409

The political landscape is completely different than in 1980.

In 1980, Reagan won Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, South Carolina, and Kentucky by less than 2 points. You can't compare the election of 1980 to the election in 2012. The country looks completely different.

410 I'm just saying here and now that despite your enthusiasm for T-Paw, you're looking at him through a political junkies eyes. I'm afraid that in the end, you'll be disappointed as you were with Sean Bielat. Yes, that's what I thought you meant. I was puzzled by Ace's remarks, but after his clarification I think we are on the same page. You guys are better at this electoral stuff than I am, so can you remind me: Which states really count? With the Electoral College, the real game will be decided by a handful of swing states, yes? So would not speculation upon the voters of those states be in order, leaving the remainder as pretty much already decided?

411 As for why men? Eh, I don't know if that's true (is it?). Let's say it is, hypothetically. If it's true I'd go to my current notion that conceptions about the sexes are sort of backwards. Men are actually more romantic and prone to emotional response than usually believed, and women are more pragmatic and immune to emotional response (having built up a tolerance for such) than the common wisdom suggests.

412 371, I felt that way at first, but yeah, he should have known that subject was coming up. Chris Wallace is usually fair, He whacks everyone. It is really ridiculous to believe that one individual can master all the info needed to run the country by Themselves. I wish the rons would think more about who the candidate surrounds themselves with. Who are they consulting to prep for this run. Who is bringing them up to speed on foreign policy? Liz Cheney? There's a good one. The economy? Art Laffer? another good one. I like Palin. I think she has common sense and knows what she doesn't know. However, If she does not run I'm in a good position to be objective because I can find as many reasons not to vote for anyone in the rest of the declared field as Ace can not to vote for Palin. Regardless, we will end up picking the lessor of our perceived Evils, Reagan is dead.

413 I just like that Palin has all the same enemies as me.  She will declare, or she won't.  The primaries will sort things out, but I am so unenthused right now I could weep, or sleep.

Either or.

414 We are both ethnically FAR different than we were in 1980, and FAR FAR FAR more ideologically polarized.  That's a fact that is often forgotten as well.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:52 PM (hIWe1)

I haven't forgotten it.  The R nominee does not need to win NY or NJ--just what Maverick won plus FL, VA, NC, OH and one of those little bitty states.

'Paper' you can compare any election.  1980 was different than 2012 will be--of course.  But they are both about the re-election of unpopular Demo Presidents.  All re-elections are mostly about the incumbent.

415

Which states really count? With the Electoral College, the real game will be decided by a handful of swing states, yes

Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado and possibly Iowa and Nevada in my humble opinion.

Indiana is a lock along with the rest of the McCain States.

416

Obama won Florida, Ohio, Indiana, and North Carolina by less than 5%. He won New Hampshire, Iowa, Colorado, and Virginia by between 5-10%.

It would be difficult to win any of the states he carried by more than 10%, but Minnesota, Penn, and Wisconsin are at least somewhat conceivable.

Our candidate has to be able to win the Midwest, North Carolina/Virginia, and Florida. It is not an impossible task.

It is, however, if you look at polling for let's say...Palin in the Midwest, Virginia, Florida, etc.

417 I disagree, and I'll tell you why I think she's got such a grip on people.

Well I like numbers and I have none on this ("this" being the breakdown of her supporters along gender lines) so I can only go with anecdotal evidence.

Palin was supported, like none else as you can imagine, on Smart Girls Politics. It has a pretty good following of women I'd liken to the 'ettes here. Some working women, but a lot of stay-at-home Moms, home schoolers, etc. I've been following them since their inception on fb and I follow their polls. Over time she's just tanked in support. Bachmann has taken some of that that but mainly these women are pulling for, another not so strange phenomena, Cain.

If someone has numbers on the breakdown of her support, I'd love to see them. Again, anectodal is no way to prove what's ultimately only a hunch.

418 My point was that she's fanatically supported like no other potential candidate because of that sexuality I agree with you that she's fanatically supported but I don't think it her sexuality at all. There are just some people that seem to inspire a cult of personality. Honestly it's one of the things that I find off-putting about her. In much the same way I found the cult of personality that surrounded Obama in the earliest days. Long before I "knew" all of the very good reasons I had to distrust, nay despise, the man the blind adoration of his supporters made me uncomfortable. I don't despise SP at all but some of her choices have tarnished her in my eyes. I could understand her resigning if it meant getting her family out of the sites of the hate machine. But she didn't do that. She just quit a job that the people of Alaska entrusted her. And frankly I don't see any reality show star as presidential material. It's a silly thing to do and I don't want silly running the country. I honestly appreciate her acting as a lightening rod for conservative principals but really don't think she's right for the WH.

419 The country looks completely different.

Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 03:56 PM (VoSja)

in 1980 there were still a lot of 'Southern Democrats' ( older White rural voters in the South ) who voted for Carter because he was a Democrat from the South

By now, this group is mostly gone:  Dead or voting R at the national and state level, although willing to vote D at the local level.

If Reagan 1980 ran today he would win with huge majorities in the states you noted

420 You guys are better at this electoral stuff than I am, so can you remind me: Which states really count? With the Electoral College, the real game will be decided by a handful of swing states, yes? So would not speculation upon the voters of those states be in order, leaving the remainder as pretty much already decided? Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 03:57 PM

States that King Jugears took in 2008 which could be in play are IMO;  FL, NC, VA, NV, WI, OH, PA, IN

Write off CA, NY, MA, IL, NJ, MD, OR, & WA, they are hopelessly socialist or the unions hold too much sway in spite of pockets of conservatism

Safe would be TX, GA, SC, TN, UT, OK, LA, AL, MS, KY

421

You guys are better at this electoral stuff than I am, so can you remind me: Which states really count? With the Electoral College, the real game will be decided by a handful of swing states, yes? So would not speculation upon the voters of those states be in order, leaving the remainder as pretty much already decided?

Some of the important swing states are OH, PA, FL, among others.  It varies a bit depending on the election and the candidates.

While yes, it's technically more important to win swing states, but historically the electoral winner either won the popular vote count, or came within a percentage point of doing so.  You still have to campaign nationally.

It's important with respect to campaign strategy- you don't put as many resources into states you're guaranteed to win or lose, but instead direct more of your efforts to swing states.

422 Florida and Ohio are big fucking deals. Even Joe Biden knows that.

423 Pickup FL, OH, NC, VA , and INdiana, and Obama is out.  Add Penna and he's way out.
 All those states can be won by a decent R nominee running a decent campaign

424

#419

That is absolutely right, and similar changes have made most of the Northeast as Democratic unless the party wants to nominate someone like Huntsman, and even then, it would be an extremely low chance that those states would flip outside of NH which might flip anyways. I wouldn't support that seeing there is a path to victory for someone as conservative as about Pawlenty.

425 >>>I like Palin. I think she has common sense and knows what she doesn't know. IF the latter is true then why has she not undertaken an effort to cure her biggest deficiency? What bothers me about Palin is how she speaks. And I don't mean "You betcha." I mean if a question is asked about TARP she will begin free-associating major topic categories like Freedom, Capitalism, the Common Sense of the American people, health care, tax reform, foreign policy, and then Drill Baby Drill. So what's the problem? The problem for me is that introducing a series of unrelated or tangentially related topics is usually an effort to disguise the fact you can't speak in depth about the topic actually asked about. When a question is asked about a subject you don't know in depth or detail, the tendency is to begin throwing a lot of shit at the wall, mentioning some quick bullet points about a bunch of basic topic categories you do know about. This bothers me to no end. People keep telling me "Oh, listen to her answers, they're GREAT" and I'm like, "No they're not. She's just riffing superficially about six or ten broad categories instead of demonstrating any serious rigor about the one thing she was asked about." Do they all do this? Of course. It's a standard thing. We all do this. All the time. Every day. But Palin does it an awful lot. If I hear her asked about TARP, i want to fucking hear three cogent minutes about TARP, and I don't want to hear her bullshitting her way around the question talking about gimme shit like Freedom and the American Spirit. Oh, I want to hear about that stuff, too. But -- "in addition to" the other thing. I want to hear broad theme stuff. But I don't want to hear broad theme stuff when I frankly question her depth of knowledge and it sure seems like she's trying to paper that over by some distracted free-association wordplay with words that conservatives like to hear.

426 >>>Pickup FL, OH, NC, VA , and INdiana, and Obama is out. I don't believe this is true. I believe we need CO and NV and at least one other EV, from either nebraska or NH.

427 historically the electoral winner either won the popular vote count, or came within a percentage point of doing so. You still have to campaign nationally. Indeed. However, there have been some pretty weird things in the last decade, approximately, like 2000. And voter fraud will be a national pastime next year. Campaign nationally, yes, certainly. Yet all this is so weird... a Senator as President, a GOP field short of clear frontrunners with a strong following, the entire dreadfully soporific issue of attacking A Historically Correctly-Tinted President, a campaign chest for Barry of potentially a billion dollars (at least half that will materialize)... In the words of Bette Davis, "it's gonna be a bumpy ride."

428

I don't believe this is true. I believe we need CO and NV and at least one other EV, from either nebraska or NH.

Hot Air had a good map a few weeks ago about how to get to the bare minimum, 270.

We would need a NH, NV, CO, WI, IA to go along with IN, NC, VA, FL, OH and the rest of the McCain states I believe.

429 One of the former states I listed, not all of them.

430 yeah, NC VA FL and OH are really just the Republican base states, you sort of have to assume them in any plausible scenario where we have a chance of winning, as Democrats must assume CA and PA. (And PA is not an assumption this cycle, though it will likely, as usual, trick us into having hope about it.) somewhere along the way we have to pick up the harder-to-get, going-more-bluish NV and CO. I think CO might be the whole shebang. (Unless PA gets smart.)

431 Gonna be tough to win CO, no?

432 And voter fraud will be a national pastime next year.

Oh about that.....

AmSpec has some info on that. They're being rebranded. So here is a list of organizations to keep your eye on.

433

Gonna be tough to win CO, no?

I'm a native of CO, now living elsewhere, but I have more hope for CO than alot of people.  Will depend alot of the Denver suburbs and the quality of our candidate.  I don't think a Palin could win the state, but TPaw, Christie or even Mittens would have a good shot.

To me it really comes down to the squishy suburban soccer moms.

434 I hear Joanne Kloppenburg is available to oversee any vote counting challenges next year.

435 it's getting harder, yeah. I'm not even sure we'll be in the top two positions on the ballot, because our candidate cratered in the governor race. I thought I read that may make us, by law, "minor" party. With Tancredo's party, whatever that is, now moving up to the top two major party slots with the Democrats. However, these states are just made up of other states. Colorado is made up of NJ, FL, OH, IA, CA, IN, MO, etc. Know what I mean? You can chop Colorado up and see it as a bunch of other state's representative, iconic voter types. Which means basically if you win enough of those iconic voters, that is, you take the national vote, you will win all the states you need to win the EC, in 99 cases out of 100, and 100 cases out of 100 if you win by more than 3% nationally.

436

If someone has numbers on the breakdown of her support, I'd love to see them. Again, anectodal is no way to prove what's ultimately only a hunch.

Google it.  Her support is significantly higher amongst men.

Have her looks had an impact on her supporters?  Yes, of course, but to what degree I don't know.  At this point she's more a favorite celebrity amongst her supporters than a political figure. 

Convincing the Palinistas that she wouldn't be a good choice for 2012 nominee would be like trying to convince the president of the Justin Bieber Fan Club that she should forget him completely and listen to someone else.  No amount of fact, logic or reason will diminish admiration based on emotional attachment.

437 it really comes down to on the squishy suburban soccer moms. I can help if you put it that way.

438 Ok, Ace, I hear you. Now please direct me to the video or text of Romney's, Pawlenty's or any other viable candidate's in depth discussion on tarp. They are all platitudes, every freaking one of them. To single out Palin is unfair. Match Romney or T-paw against her on energy policy. She would mop the floor with them. Unlike some here, i'll be standing by the last candidate, the one that must unseat the most dangerous President ever. In the end, it's your show, play the music you want. But I'm not dancing.

439 To me it really comes down to the squishy suburban soccer moms.

Damn those wimmins!
_{No, seriously damn them!! Damn them straaaaaaaaaaight to hell!}

440 >>>Google it. Her support is significantly higher amongst men. Men have a hard time reconsidering or thinking that maybe they're wrong.

441 >>>Match Romney or T-paw against her on energy policy. But on only that.

442 Hey, didn't you see my fabulous PowerPoint presentation on socialized medicine and how I am not for it while I am? A true gem of clarity, it was.

443 And old sailor, they may speak in platitudes, but they tend to be platitudes directly connected to the topic asked about, not platitudes about far-flung/unrelated topics.

444 The "white knight" phenomenon is definitely a factor when it comes to Palin's hardcore male supporters.  To what extent I'm not sure.

445 Isn't the President of the Bieber Fan Club in fact  Our President??

No really, he's a big fan or sumthin'.

No further comment necessary.

446 Palin isn't running. Will not happen. Not a criticism of her; she simply will not choose to do so.

447

Damn those wimmins!

And to be more specific, single women.  70 -29 for Owaffle.  Heh.

448

Ok, Ace, I hear you. Now please direct me to the video or text of Romney's, Pawlenty's or any other viable candidate's in depth discussion on tarp.

Google is your friend.

449

I'm even tired of talking about reasons why Palin is a good or bad candidate. Can't her enduring and remarkably high disapproval numbers be enough? No one person is more important than the goal of getting rid of Obama and putting in a good Republican candidate.

To support Palin right now where she is, is to say 'I care more about settling arguments about Palin and showing I support her than having a reasonable chance to win the election'.

450 And to be more specific, single women. I tells ya, single wimmins is the bane of our nation! Let's marry all of them.

451 442 Hey, didn't you see my fabulous PowerPoint presentation on socialized medicine and how I am not for it while I am?

A true gem of clarity, it was. Posted by: Mitt Romney at May 22, 2011 04:24 PM

fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap

452 >>> No one person is more important than the goal of getting rid of Obama and putting in a good Republican candidate. This is a major problem I have, that the attitude seems to be "We owe it Sarah." No we don't. I don't mean to be an asshole here but what have you done for me lately? This is the goddamned country we're talking about.

453 And to be more specific, single women.  70 -29 for Owaffle.  Heh.

Repeal the 19th Amendment!!!1!1!!!

454 450, I did my part, help yourself.

455 I meant that any R candidate who picks up FL, OH, VA, NC and IN ( the 'likely five' ) will probably pick up the one other state needed to mathematically defeat O in the Electoral College

Any R who picks up those Likely Five will likely win at least one other state that O carried last time, and O is out.  If it's PA, game over

456

Men have a hard time reconsidering or thinking that maybe they're wrong.

Never had an argument with a girlfriend?

Seriously though- you might be right, but given their emphasis on Palin's style rather than substance, I don't believe that her looks are completely irrelevant with regards to the intensity of support her fans have for her.

457 Whether your support Palin or oppose her, this link will almost certainly make you angry: http://tinyurl.com/3fsfq7o

458 I think Sarah Palin will make a fine President and will easily defeat Ebola.

459 But what about the all-important socialist bureaucrat vote? We shall not go unmanned.

460

#458

Do you have any proof at all for that? What is your evidence that she win win swing states? What is your evidence that she can win independent voters?

461 >>> I don't believe that her looks are completely irrelevant with regards to the intensity of support her fans have for her. I just don't really believe that, apart from the threshold question of any candidate, "When I look at this person, do I have good feelings? Confidence? Aspirational notions?" etc. There is no doubt that the good looking do better in politics (and most else) but apart from that basic threshold I don't think people are really supporting her because she's an 8 as opposed to the 6 or 7 you need to get by.

462 460, What's your evidence she won't?

463 http://tinyurl.com/3fsfq7o Shame on you, Ace.

464 "So when a great honor is going to be conferred, the public wants to know: 'Why you? What have you *done* to be worthy of this honor?' "

Excuse me, but I don't recall anyone in the public (by which I mean the Media) asking me that.

465 457 Whether your support Palin or oppose her, this link will almost certainly make you angry:

Son of a bitch, I knew it and still hit the link.

466 >>>I think Sarah Palin will make a fine President and will easily defeat Ebola. I think you are almost gleeful in ignoring the fact that more than half of the base is negative-to-opposed on her, despite claims often made by people that we need a candidate that will please the base. Further, Palin having alienated more and more of her natural base of support, I find it quite baffling how on earth it is anticipated she will begin winning over the leaners and some of the independents. But I guess this is like what scientists say when they don't understand their own theories: "Step 2: Then a miracle occurs."

467 will easily defeat Ebola.

eman, with all due respect as I really like your posts, you're what I'm talking about here. I don't think you're thinking with the right head.

again, I no mean disrespect about that but I read your posts and this type of comment aside, you come across as off-the-charts smart.

there is absolutely no evidence that she can win against the Worst.President. Ever. that's why this leaves me scratching my head.

468

#462

Two years of consistent polling that shows that she is one of the most unpopular and divisive people in politics. Plenty of additional polling shows her consistenly losing by 12-15 points or more to Obama in a general election.

469 I don't know about the rest of the Palin supporters but I really want and need to see her in action. I want to see her on a stage in some high pressure moments being targeted by some libtard commentator surrounded by the rest of the field. She could lose me. Ace is right, it is about the Country. However, right here, right now, I think she has "it". "it" The undifinable quality that seperates winners from losers.

470

If Sarah Palin can't win, it is completely meaningless about what kind of President she would be.

This is the problem. You have to separate who you would most like to see President from who actually has the ability to win the office.

471 I want to see her on a stage in some high pressure moments

Uh, how about doing the fundamentals and going somewhere other than Fox for an interview.

472 I want to see her on a stage in some high pressure moments

I want to see if she can wink with her right eye, to go along with her left. 

473 because she's an 8 as opposed to the 6 or 7 you need to get by.

You dumbass men and your goddamn 10 point scale!

474 469, Polls are as fair as the people taking them. They are for shit, especially this many months out.

475 I can't get past this notion that has gripped so many that all we have to do is be uncompromising and unapologetic and people will "just fall in line." They will? Like we all fell in line behind Obama? What evidence is there of this theory that all we need to do is put up the least electable candidate the public will reward us because they think, "Gee, they're so confident they're putting up someone I personally find unacceptable; they must know something I don't"? There is none. This is not thinking. This is not reason. This is an emotional indulgence clinged to regardless of evidence or fact.

476

You dumbass men and your goddamn 10 point scale!

Make me a sammich.  Then you can go watch your Mad Men marathon. 

477 >>> Palin isn't running. Will not happen. Not a criticism of her; she simply will not choose to do so. I don't think so either. However, she keeps threatening to; whether that is real, or just keeping her buzz on, I don't know. Without Huckabee in the race, and with, admittedly, a weak and large field, certainly the nomination fight is shaped as well as she could hope to win the thing.

478 Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 22, 2011 04:35 PM (2gNXM) You have a point, I may be wish casting. I do believe there is more to her than many suspect, but it is a great stretch to say she can easily beat Ebola. As for what sort of President she would be, I am sticking to that. I have seen a President who was deeply informed on policy fall on his ass. Jimmy Carter. It is not a predictor of success. What gives me faith in her most of all is how she advanced through life. She got set back in 2008, but then has recovered much ground. She has a good learning curve is the gist of it. It is foolish to underestimate her, I think.

479 Make me a sammich

Sure. Turkey or ha...wait, what?? No. Make it yourself!

As a side note, I've pissed away my entire afternoon on making my case against Palin (supporters mainly). That said, she of course has my vote if push comes to shove in the general election. I think she most certainly has the country's best interest at heart and anyone would be more qualified than the alternative at this point.

I think we can do better than the lowest common denominator in our own party, but at the end of the day, we're dysfunctional fuckups at the nomination process so who the hell knows.

480 Pennsylvania did this with Santorum. He's (reasonably) handsome and he speaks with conviction and certainty and is uncompromising in his principle. And the base loved him and just ignored the polls that said he turned off the majority of voters. So with certainty and uncompromising principle he lost by double digits.

481 Socialism has never been about the middle class or the workers; socialism is just another moniker for the relentless pursuit of feudalism by liberals seeking to realize their own selves by playing God with other people's money and lives.  The difference is that it has gotten so far out of hand in the modern era that today's middle class American actually has a bigger yoke of feudal oppression upon his neck than a serf living in the Middle Ages.  Do the math on taxes and you'll be amazed to see that I am right.

Fascinating.

482 As for what sort of President she would be, I am sticking to that. I have seen a President who was deeply informed on policy fall on his ass.

It's not just about knowledge on policy it's about shaping policy. My biggest bitch about Palin is in that the short time she governed she advanced bad policy. From focusing on earmarks while the operational size of her government exploded, taxes, to her pipeline fantasy. I always thought she governed horribly. It looked to me like she was in way over her head. She just had the price of oil covering for her.

483 It is foolish to underestimate her, I think.

You have a point too. And I go back-and-forth on this in my mind.

But as I said earlier, perception is key. And it's certainly hard to overcome.

It's like in collij when you go booze it up Wed-Sunday and then end up being on double secret probation for the rest of your freshman year. You  may eventually get over the 2.0 hump, but to get to 3.5 by the end of your college career? Almost impossible. Climbing that hill is a tough feat.

We don't have a bright enough electorate. A good chunk of these voters we're stuck with believe the crap SNL attributed to her.

I think they're a lost cause where she's concerned. And unfortunately you need those assholes to win.

484 When your guy is already popular the purpose of the campaign is to keep it that way. When your guy is unpopular the purpose of the campaign is to change that. That is Palin's task. I think she can do it. We shall see.

485

I think her popularity among her fans is very simple, and it has very little to do with her looks beyond being that yes she is photogenic.  Its simply her story.  Look at how she came into politics.  She was a reporter for a while and then went on the PTA.  Mayor, then a position higher up in the state.  All while helping to work on her husbands business.  Then she becomes governor.  And even if she's not some policy wonk she comes across as being pretty solidly conservative and certainly anti-establishment which is big for a lot of people. 

So she's essentially a self-made politician in a way I think a lot of people would like to see politicians come up.  I mean for the most part politics seems to be for lack of a better word "incestous."  Hillary and Nancy Pelosi are getting in because of their husband and Dad.  Even W. and Al Gore fathers were involved in politics.  And even so much among others its like they go Lawyer - Worked on this guy's campaign- worked on his staff - My turn now!

So its great when we get politicians that don't follow that mold like her.  And she got national exposure with it so she's getting even more fans than others would be because they are just state level or lower.

And so when the attacks come at her its going to feel like a personal attack on the individual.  Because it comes off as an attack on the path she took.  Yeah she's essentially kept herself insulated and protected so her supporters remain loyal and her detractors become more enraged because "how can they like such a stupid unserious woman" 

And going off and then insulting those people that like her really isn't going to help anything

486 And so when the attacks come at her its going to feel like a personal attack on the individual. Because it comes off as an attack on the path she took. Yeah she's essentially kept herself insulated and protected so her supporters remain loyal and her detractors become more enraged because "how can they like such a stupid unserious woman" And going off and then insulting those people that like her really isn't going to help anything Posted by: buzzion at May 22, 2011 05:00 PM (oVQFe) Yes, the path she took is critical in understanding how folks react to her. I suspect some folks think she is not minding her place.

487 Ace, I really love "Did It In A Minute" by Hall & Oates as well (in fact, that entire album is really great -- that's also the one with "Kiss On My List," right?), but why do you keep posting links to it?  Just obsessed with for whatever reason?

488 Still, I'd vote for her if we decided to commit suicide and nominate her.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 03:11 PM (hIWe1)

You will probably be running that past your girlfriend first....

489

You will probably be running that past your girlfriend first....

Posted by: Museisluse at May 22, 2011 06:05 PM (a8aqn) +

and his mother.

 

My biggest bitch about Palin is in that the short time she governed she advanced bad policy. From focusing on earmarks while the operational size of her government exploded, taxes, to her pipeline fantasy. I always thought she governed horribly. It looked to me like she was in way over her head. She just had the price of oil covering for her.
Posted by: lowandslow at May 22, 2011 04:56 PM (GZitp)

Put up the #s for her budgets while she was in office, and you can't use the '07 budget, because it wasn't hers.   Put up the #s for the reduction in spending while she was governor.

Do you live in AK?

490

I really have no one whom I can support right now

Jeb Bush, use your awesome might to save me from this hopeless plight.

491
These are all great comments here. Very cool article.


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