1 Jordan's army is Bedouin; and they are loyal to the king, unlike the Egyptian army, which is conscripts.

2 There goes the Middle East!  The only possible allies we may have left will be Iraq (maybe) and Israel (if they're still around in 10 years).

3 All that matters is what the Army wants.

4 Hey girls, let's go out for ice cream!

Anybody want to talk about my pick for the Super Bowl?

5 Jordan won't fall. The Israelis will never let it happen

6 I also don't buy spontaneous, simultaneous 'democratic' uprisings. There's coordination going on there, and it's not democratic forces doing it.

7

At least I won my bet that Mubarak would hang on until at least this week.  Looks like the MB has decided to make a push for the whole of the ME...and our government (at least certain factions of it) is all gung ho to see this happen.  Interesting times.

But the optimist in me sees opportunity...lots of it, and not just in the ME.

8 Ol Dumbo is either extremely stupid or ignorant just sitting on the sideline letting this happen, or he's one of the most malicious leaders of the new millenium.

9 Fuck Obama. He loves this. Nothing from him about the Iranian protests, but he gets involved in Egypt. Bowing to Pam "CAIR Day" Lorio, bowing to the Saudi king, etc. So much for "strengthening ties with our allies."

10 All that matters is what the Army wants. Posted by: toby928™ at February 01, 2011 10:58 AM (GTbGH) Fuck the Army, it's the Navy....oh ya mean over there...nevermind

11 I hope that Jordan stays afloat. 

The Israelis will be twitchy enough with Lebanon, Syria, and probably Egypt hostile to them.  If Jordan flips, then they're back to the days of the 60s and 70s where they've got enemies on all sides.

12 Yes, my young apprentice, you are doing just as I taught you...

13 Our concert begins after Adhan!...all are welcome!

14 So far it looks like Mubarak is gonna let them demonstrate, not work, strarve, and out last them? We will see. Lets see if violence breaks out. Either in Egypt or in Jordan.

15 All is going according to my plans. Now witness the power of this fully operational Death Star.

16 If Jordan flips, then they're back to the days of the 60s and 70s where they've got enemies on all sides. Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at February 01, 2011 11:04 AM (iBaup) Ya mean WHEN not If don't ya?

17 Also, Jordan is Palestine. It Jordan was part of the British Palestinian mandate

18 "Yes, we can too" --Banner in Cairo?

19 As for the Palestinians in Jordan, that's the way it was supposed to be when the international boundaries were set up. The troublemakers have mostly been tossed into Israel.

20 So will the Muslim Brotherhood types take over? Are we going to see the Mideast shift toward 21st century governance, or go backwards even more?

21 Moobie is humming to himself, ♫"Leavin', on a jet plane"♫

22 5 Jordan won't fall. The Israelis will never let it happen

Never say never, Ben.  Most of the Jordanian population is "Palestinian" and would love to see the Hashemite regime go so they can pursue their grand pan Arab-Islamic pipe-dream.

23 I'm always suspicious of protest signs in a foreign country that are written in English. Seems too neatly packaged for consumption.

24 King Fuad II of Egypt.  Tanned, rested and ready.

25 I'm always suspicious of protest signs in a foreign country that are written in English. Seems too neatly packaged for consumption.

Tehran does good work.

26 So Israel is gonna be stuck in a Hashemite sandwich?

27 --Remember, about 1/3 of Jordan's population is Palestinian and there has been

I don't know where you got that figure. Jordan is majority Palestinian, something like 65%.  I think you are only counting those that are termed "palestinian refugees" by the asinine UN, who came later from the West Bank.

28 Jordan won't fall. The Israelis will never let it happen Never say never, Ben. Most of the Jordanian population is "Palestinian" and would love to see the Hashemite regime go so they can pursue their grand pan Arab-Islamic pipe-dream. Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 01, 2011 11:08 AM (9hSKh) Israel had in the past and might in the future help prevent an external invasion of Jordan, but I doubt they would intervene at all in an internal change of power.

29 But, but I thought King Abdullah was a Princeton man!

That's where his Mom is from, certainly.

Quick check the crease on his pants!

30 Close the city and tell the people
That something's coming to call
Death and darkness are rushing forward
To stamp light from the wall!

Oh! You've nothing to say
They'll drag you away!
If you listen to fools,
The mob rules, the mob rules

Kill the spirit and you'll be blinded
The end is always the same
Play with fire, you'll burn your finger
And you'll get hold of a flame, oh!

It's over, it's done
The end is begun
If you listen to fools,
The mob rules
You've nothing to say
Oh, They're breaking away
If you listen to fools

Break the circle and stop the movement
The wheel is thrown to the ground
Just remember it might stop rolling
And take you right back around!

You're all fools!
The Mob Rules!   - Black Sabbath

31 OK lets play a game: Where do all the Arab Dictators about to fall have houses in the West to flee to? Mubarak...... Abdullah.... Abbas... Arafat's Body?....

32 World War III. WHEEEEE.....

33

Well, since conventional wisdom seems to be that Egypt is a crapshoot right now, I'll go ahead and predict a sharp rise in radical Islam.  Their economy will get even shittier, their large numbers of poor will get poorer and, true to form, Islamists will come in and keep them poor and pissed at the West.

It's easy to stoke anti-western sentiment there.  It's the only thing many of those countries have to keep them from imploding under their own incompetence.  Islam is the most effective at placing blame elsewhere, because in the end, blame is the #1 commodity most of these countries have.

34 We welcome our new muzzie overlords in Egypt. All hail Jimmeh II.

35 It may last 7 days this time.

36 Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 01, 2011 11:16 AM (A/oSU)

The West is what is preventing the return of the Caliphate where all good muzzies will live in peace and harmony, share in the bounty that allah will provide, and be free to kill Jews and Christians all the livelong day.  What a wonderful future awaits us!

37 I'm starting to think that maybe region just is not very stable.

38 Never say never, Ben. Most of the Jordanian population is "Palestinian" and would love to see the Hashemite regime go so they can pursue their grand pan Arab-Islamic pipe-dream. Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 01, 2011 11:08 AM (9hSKh) We're perfectly willing to recreate Black September in February...

39 Actually a quarter million in Tahir Square is not very big, for a population of 81 million,

40 Actually a quarter million in Tahir Square is not very big, for a population of 81 million, Posted by: justin cord at February 01, 2011 11:21 AM (2C3OH) swell they don;t all live in Cairo and most people in the "burbs" just have a mule for transportation

41 That is a good place for a daisy cutter air burst.

42 I'm always suspicious of protest signs in a foreign country that are written in English. Seems too neatly packaged for consumption.

What other language should a plea for freedom be couched in?

Arabic?

Puhleeze!

They don't even have the fucking vocabulary.

43 We are the ones we've been waiting for. -Muslim Brotherhood

44 Per Jihad Watch, Obama supports MB participation in new government.  Which is a "duh" given we're talking about Obama, but still amazingly anti-freedom and anti-US interests for an American president.  With Obama as POTUS, who needs enemies?

45 That's really not to surprising considering the nature of the government and how it choked off any opposition groups for generations. When people can't express their views or have them tested in the market place of ideas, they can be warped and contradictory.

Oy.  Arab views are warped and contradictory when they are allowed to be expressed publicly.  I think you just fail to understand the major and monumental differences between arab culture and Western culture.  Arabs are not Westerners.  They have a totally different culture that is beyond the grasp of most in the West.  What you consider contradictory, they have no problem with ... just as with Western leftists, who are allowed to express their idiotic and contradictory views of everything.

46 Are there any Lyndon LaRouche people at the Egyptian protests

47 Note to morons. No one is a Palestinian.

48 28 Jordan won't fall. The Israelis will never let it happen

Israel has no control over internal Jordanian politics and wouldn't even try to do anything.

49 I predict open civil war in Egypt. No wait, I predict a peaceful transfer to an open and free society. No wait, I predict a tumble into the abyss of Islamic tyranny. No wait, I predict mass suicide and Egypt is abandoned for all time. Where's my pundit check?

50 The question is moot.

51 Jordan won't fall. The Israelis will never let it happen Israel has no control over internal Jordanian politics and wouldn't even try to do anything. Posted by: iknowtheleft at February 01, 2011 11:27 AM (N49h9) Exactly

52 49 I predict open civil war in Egypt.

No wait, I predict a peaceful transfer to an open and free society.

No wait, I predict a tumble into the abyss of Islamic tyranny.

No wait, I predict mass suicide and Egypt is abandoned for all time.

I predict the average Egyptian is screwed but good no matter what!

Where's my pundit check?

Posted by: eman at February 01, 2011 11:28 AM (n0WLs)

FIFY

53 51 The question is moot. Posted by: mayan calendar at February 01, 2011 11:30 AM (GTbGH) Back off ya friggin' furriner.

54 Man, this rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouching towards Bethlehem to be born, is sure taking its time about it,

I didn't think End of Days would be like waiting in line at the DMV to renew your license. Get on with the Apocalypse already! Jeesh!

55 I disagree with the most of the posters here in that I think this is a good thing . I don't believe radical Islamic rule will take over if we take the appropriate actions. Both covert and overt. There are almost two billion reasons why the Egyptian military won't let radical Islam take hold.

56 Capitalist pigs!  Zionist dogs!  Oppressors!

Now, let us go and plunder the pyramids, my friends.

57 Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 01, 2011 11:25 AM (SJ6/3)

I hate to confuse you, but my mother was born in Palestine. She was a Palestinian until 1947 when the Palestinians took back their country from the British and fought off the invading Arabs. Now of course they call themselves by their original name: Israelis.

58 Come to Egypt. See the Mighty Pyramids, the Ancient Mummies, the Brand-New Craters.

59 I see Mutt Romney is opening his flapping yap and calling for Hose-knee to step aside. It's that "Poppin' Fresh"-style warm, snuggly desire for "democracy...."

We have two choices: get involved in Egypt's situation and use our resources to find and establish leaders there who have some vague idea of what "democracy" means, or STFU and let them deal with their own issues.

Sadly, the Mohammedan Mouthpiece (ours, that is) seems to want to let the Muzzie Bros take power. What a shocker, right? Fatheads like Mutt are being Useful Idiots, just like Jerry Rivers and other commentators.

I have a feeling we'll be involved militarily in Egypt before long, either to quell the "democracy-loving" Egyptians' rioting and destruction or to protect Israel when Osama Obama's Muzzie pals make their moves from their new country.

60 Cool.  Al Qaeda now targeting Wall Street executives.

61 Actually a quarter million in Tahir Square is not very big, for a population of 81 million,
Posted by: justin cord at February 01, 2011 11:21 AM (2C3OH)

I disagree.

First, a couple of hundred thousand people breaking the law and attacking the regime with impunity is important. It shows that the ability of the regime to enforce its will has disappeared. That's all a government's like Mubarak's has or rather had.

Second, the future belongs those who show up. Very few political/military revolutions (including the American) invovle a majority of the population. It's usually a highly motivated and active minority that makes something happen. 250,000 people doing something often overcomes millions doing nothing. Also, Cairo is the largest but just one city. There are similar protests across the country in cities like Alexandria and Suez.

Third, a lot of the real action is behind the scenes. If the US pulls the rug out from Mubarak (bye-bye $  Billion/year) and the Army continues to refuse to come to his aid...he's got nothing. People in the streets creates political pressure to move the US away from him.

I'm not saying it ends well but I don't think you can discount the 2nd and 3rd order effects of what the street protests make possible.

62

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 01, 2011 11:25 AM (SJ6/3)

I hate to confuse you, but my mother was born in Palestine. She was a Palestinian until 1947 when the Palestinians took back their country from the British and fought off the invading Arabs. Now of course they call themselves by their original name: Israelis.

Yeah, in the originally 1948 partitian, the Jews were refered to as "Palestinians" and the Muslims were the "Arabs".

 

The British Mandate of Palestine included modern Jordan as well.

63 She just smiled and gave me a Hashemite sandwich.

64 Where's your crown, King Nothing?

65 I have a feeling we'll be involved militarily in Egypt before long

How long is long?  I can't imagine Barry sending in troops anywhere, certainly not to aid our traditional allies.

66

These are heady times indeed.

 

67 The untold story here is the rise in food prices. This is what kicked off the riots in Tunisia and Egypt. Pakistan is not far behind.
http://bit.ly/i3Xrxc

All of this "stimulus" and printing money in the developed world has caused sever inflated food prices, even in places like Laos which are net food exporters.

68 57 You are Jordanian, you lying Taquia spouting jackal. There is and never has been a Palestinian people, language, or culture. Is anyone here stupid enough to believe you? 

69 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at February 01, 2011 11:36 AM

All my pre-Israel geography books are packed away so I'm relying on faulty memory here, but I seem to recall that "Palestine" was a marked region on the map but not really a nation in the modern sense with a central government. Wasn't it administered by the Brits?

Seems to me the nations of the ME were mainly established in modern times. Before that was "Arabia," "Trans-Jordan," "Persia," etc.

70 or to protect Israel when Osama Obama's Muzzie pals make their moves from their new country.

It would kinda suck for them if all of Egypt's phat American military hardware spare parts pipeline suddenly dried up.  Shit happens...

I'm just saying...

71

'Syria doesn't play when it comes to this stuff.'

No, but that was with Pops.  Junior Opthalmologist is in charge now. 

We'll find out how well he can see what's coming.

I don't think the fundies have any love for the Ba'ath leadership, as in Iraq.  Secular dictators are probably at as much risk now as pro-western democracies in the ME. 

72 Did someone say slouching towards Gommorah?

73

16 If Jordan flips...

Not to worry: Barry the Crease has been assured by Geography Czar Joe Biden that Jordan is not an island like Guam, so this can't happen.  Whew.

74

Jordan won't fall. The Israelis will never let it happen

I dunno. Jordan exists today as it is today because they were semi-autonomous under the mandate giving a sense of "legitimacy" of the Hashemite government. And, much of the population was Bedouin and were not so dependent on the government.. They were happy running around with their goats and the Abdullahs left them alone.

In '67, a slew of Palestinian refugees settled in Jordan. Abdullah kept them controlled through largesse. They lived better than the refugees in Lebanon, but the antipathy toward Israel never left...nor that toward their host country who supported the right of Israel to exist. Now they see what's happening around them...and the lack of response by Ogabe and will likely be very encouraged to start shit.

Israel would be VERY hesitant to involve itself in Jordan given the certain repercussions......and Ebola will likely warn them to stay out and will not support them

75 Unfortunately, most Egyptians know exactly what they want:  A caliphate with strict Sharia law.  The first thing they'll do with their freedom is vote for Muslim Brotherhood tyrants who will take it away.

76 Pakistan was made up as well. Mixture of about 3 tribes.

77 Predator drones are doing the Lords work.

78 Iraq too.  Colonialism made a mess out of large regions of the world, which were complicated enough to begin with.

79 How long is long?  I can't imagine Barry sending in troops anywhere, certainly not to aid our traditional allies.
Posted by: toby928™ at February 01, 2011 11:39 AM

If the Traitor-in-Chief sees the Muzzie Bros losing out, I can see him sending in military to "protect" the Egyptians.

On the other hand, if he acts like he's willing to let Israel be overrun, I wouldn't be surprised if Congress rose up and demanded troops/supplies be sent.

In either case, he doesn't seem unduly worried about American casualties. Or even basic decency.

80 Mommy told me I was a Fakestinian, sob, so that means it was true. Your mom was a liar.

81 All my pre-Israel geography books are packed away so I'm relying on faulty memory here, but I seem to recall that "Palestine" was a marked region on the map but not really a nation in the modern sense with a central government. Wasn't it administered by the Brits?

Seems to me the nations of the ME were mainly established in modern times. Before that was "Arabia," "Trans-Jordan," "Persia," etc.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at February 01, 2011 11:41 AM (Ulu3i)

Jews born in the mandate were called "Palestinians" and called themselves that at times.  You can even see remnants of this in the movie Exodus, where Paul Newman is called Palestinian, being what we now call a Sabra.

82 Colonialism made a mess out of large regions of the world..

...like pretty much all of Africa.

83 Drew, nearly 8 million people live in Cairo, proper, seeing as the Army has said it will not fire on the protesters, this maybe a fizzle, then again one can think of this as 1905 and not 1917, if you're using the Russian analogy. A million were promised for today

84 Not this douchenozzle troll again.

85 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at February 01, 2011 11:36 AM (LH6ir)

Well played. Heh.

86 So, here is my simple layman's understanding:
Iranian protests: good thing, they could not be worse than the regime.

Egyptian protests: hard to tell, probably a bad thing because of the likelihood that the Muslim Brotherhood will emerge from the mess.

Jordanian protests: bad thing, Abdullah is the most Western-oriented ruler of a major Muslim country.  He'd be replaced with Hamas or worse.

And where is Obama?  At home, washing his tights.

87 You know what Egypt really needs? Another speech in Cairo. I would go myself but the links are a-callin'. So I'm sending copies of my speech in 2009 on DVD. I hope they have NTSC machines over there. Seeya, off for a quick 18.

88

We are all Yemenis now.

89

who is blamed for a rise in fuel and food prices

 

See... ethanol... and no offshore drilling??? I'll take credit for this!

90 I know who you are.

91 --Colonialism made a mess out of large regions of the world..

Bullshit.  Colonialism offered much of the world access to the most advanced of mankind.  It was the peoples in different parts that failed to take advantage of what colonialism made available to them.  These places were messes before colonialism (or just primitive places totally removed from modern life or any access to it).

92 The dude who runs Yemen is a major scumbag.  Basically, that guy makes Murarak look like Mother Theresa.

93 Maybe ethanol is a good idea. It has value as entertainment when it causes turd world scum to get all weeweed up.

94 Posted by: justin cord at February 01, 2011 11:46 AM (2C3OH)

Could be. There were also reports that the Army had closed some roads off to prevent people from getting there.

I guess it depends on how you look at it..did it fall short of what organizers called for? Or was it the largest anti-government rally of Mubarak's term?

I could be both.

95

And where is Obama?

Going to parties for the rats that are fleeing the sinking HMS Ogabe

96 Bullshit.  Colonialism offered much of the world access to the most advanced of mankind.

English colonialism maybe.  The Belgians, Germans and the French made a hash out of their colonies.   The Belgians in the Congo were as bad as the Nazis.

97 Allahpundit (no irony there, after all) writes:

Israelis shocked by Obama’s “betrayal” of Mubarak
I'm shocked that they're shocked. What else is Obama supposed to do? Explain to me what the United States gains by sticking with Mubarak at this point, or what it would even mean to “stick with him” now.

A point to ponder as you watch Netanyahu address the crisis: Some U.S. hawks think that Islamist democracy may be an inevitable stage in the evolution of some Arab countries from dictatorship to something more modern and liberal. Iranians have already learned the hard way what works and what doesnÂ’t. Egypt hasnÂ’t yet, and it may be that the only way to find out is to experience it firsthand.

98 94 That and too dang many people. We should institute grain tariffs on OPEC countries.

99 Colonialism offered much of the world access to the most advanced of mankind.

If you were lucky enough to be a British colony, yea.  The others?  Not so much...they were more into simply draining wealth than any notions of cultural advancement.

100 Posted by: AmishDude at February 01, 2011 11:47 AM

"Poppin' Fresh" over at TepidAir is washing Osama Obama's tights for him.

In a painful, perverse sense, I love watching the squish-cons' knee-jerk reactions to calls for "democracy" from the fellaheen. It's so touching for them, like that weird, ugly, Statue of Liberty-inspired "Goddess of Democracy" that appeared briefly in Tienanmen Square years ago when the Chi9nese were demanding "democracy."

That worked out damn well, didn't it?

101

'These places were messes before colonialism'

You'll note that my original post made the same point.

The larger point was that, by arbitrarily drawing border lines on the map, colonial powers created the basis for long-standing problems that continue today.  It does not excuse the people there themselves for behaving like primitive barbarians rather than solving their problems.

102 The British brought plumbing and sanitation to the 3rd world.

103 Posted by: Downsized Upscale at February 01, 2011 11:51 AM (IhHdM)

Nice, succinct and to the point.

104 Is that S.E Cupps on Beck?

105

King Abdullah II is the world's only monarch with a walk-on acting part in Star Trek. He married an American, his mom is an American, as far as I'm concerned he's OK in my book. I hope he hangs on.

 

106 English colonialism maybe.  The Belgians, Germans and the French made a hash out of their colonies.   The Belgians in the Congo were as bad as the Nazis.

Posted by: toby928™ at February 01, 2011 11:52 AM (GTbGH)

Meh.  Even those other empires introduced primitive nations to modernity.  Africa never lacked its own mass murderers, and tribes in Africa have been happy to hack the shit out of each other at the drop of a hat - though they didn't even have hats before they were colonized.

Colonialism was brutal, but no more brutal for most places than the indigenous populations were to each other, anyway.  Colonialism still showed the populations what first-world administrations looked like, introduced much of modern civilization, and governing sturctures that they could copy when colonialism ended.

107 Jesus H. Christ, do I have to do the plagues thing again?

108

I've been seeing Obama = Carter again.

Obama loses Egypt the way Carter lost Iran.

Obama's anemic economy = Carter's stagflation.

I say BS. Carter is a piker compared to this poisonous marxist.

He is too scary too be called a clown.

He will be remember for (just to name a few):

-Losing the entire Middle East region.

-Turning the US into an economic banana republic if Cap&Trade/Obamacare are realized.

-Rendering us vulnerable ballistic missile threats.

-Drove the stake through NASA's heart (EPA and OSHA will prevent any serious development of private aerospace).

I'm just getting started- but you get the idea.

109 The British brought plumbing and sanitation to the 3rd world.

The Spaniards brought VD and looted your treasuries.

110 Mubarak will be replaced by another dictator.

It's all these people know. 

The killings won't end, just a different group will be killed. 

111

 The Belgians in the Congo were as bad as the Nazis.

I dunno. If not for the Belgians, Pygmy Stew would still be a staple of the Congolese diet

112 112 Recipe?

113

There's somethin' goin' on here

 But you don't what it is

Do you, Mr. Jones

114 In a painful, perverse sense, I love watching the squish-cons' knee-jerk reactions to calls for "democracy" from the fellaheen.

Then they bray on about how staunchly conservative they are in regards to our own politics. HotAir commenters have elevated ass-elbow-hole-in-the-ground confusion to an art, and it's only going to get worse when Poppin Fresh comes right out and endorses T Paw.

115

Ok folks... history time...

What prompted the French Revolution?  Wasn't it food prices?

What prompted Hitlers rise to power? Bank Failures which hit Food prices?

Russian Revolution?  Food shortages caused by disruptions from the War...

 

Food prices have skyrocketed worldwide in the last year, due to poor weather (not global warming), rising fuel prices, and ethanol subsidies...

So... "IF" the historical trend is followed, because no new Government is going to be able to do anything about food prices... their will continue to be problems, and succesive governments, until a Strong Man comes in and restores order through force...

"Those who do not read history, are doomed to repeat it"

116 Mubarak will be replaced by another dictator.

Damn few revolutions turn out as the naive and enthusiastic participants in the masses expect.  The American revolution was one of the very few that was even kinda close.

117 These protesters know what they don't like, but the vast, vast majority don't have a clue as to what they want.  I don't even think many are blaming the JOOS...

118

The larger point was that, by arbitrarily drawing border lines on the map, colonial powers created the basis for long-standing problems that continue today. 

Posted by: phineas gage at February 01, 2011 11:53 AM (c+3Qr)

Eh.  The same exact thing was done in post-WWI Europe.  Many like to blame that for WWII, but it wasn't that.  It was the people, not the borders.  Europeans had been used to having their borders drawn and redrawn for many other times, as is also true of the rest of the world.  The introduction of the nation-state was an advancement that helped stability, which old tribal boundaries never did much to support.  I think that is true the world over.  If those people didn't appreciate the nation-state concept, then that is because of their problems.  Indian and Pakistan (i.e. Hindus and Muslims) would be fighting no matter where the border of Pakistan, India, and the Kashmir region were drawn, or even not drawn.

119 Why buy Abrahams' Tanks and then not use them when rabble starts rioting?

120

Cluebat from Exodar at February 01, 2011 11:56 AM (JSetw)

Well stated.  I would add deliberately causing the collapse of the domestic energy industry, with all the economic repercussions that entails.

And making us the laughingstock of much of the world, wearing the foolscap for communist China.

121 Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 01, 2011 11:41 AM (SJ6/3)

Bravo!

Marvelous.

122 The introduction of the nation-state was an advancement that helped stability

It wasn't all rosy.  Raising massive armies capable of mass destruction and death in the millions wasn't something possible in diffused tribal structures.

Tribes would never advance enough to construct the modern machinery of death nation states are capable of.

123 I don't even think many are blaming the JOOS...
Posted by: ParisParamus at February 01, 2011 12:00 PM

Well, there is a photo of some fellah holding a poster of Hose-knee with a drawn-on bullet hole and Star of David on his forehead.

If the freedom-loving Egyptians aren't blaming the Jooos in general and Israel in particular at this very moment, you can bet they're working up to it....

124 Posted by: Ben at February 01, 2011 11:38 AM (wuv1c)

So we stopped at the Jordan. We fucked up. The biblical land of Israel included land east of the Jordan, so....

125

I'm in Amman--have been since 2007--and any talk of Jordan "flipping" is, at least for now, wildly exaggerated.  And there's no significance to King Abdullah firing the cabinet.  He disbanded the entire parliament for two years, and they just had national elections back in November, with pretty much the exact same people being elected again, to pretty much the bored contempt and laughter of the populace.  They know that it's the king's show in the end, and that in most things, the king is actually less corrupt than the elected officials, who are largely elected on tribal and family lines.  During November's elections, when I asked friends and colleagues who they were voting for, they mostly just laughed in my face. 

The "Palestinian" population of Jordan are almost completely meaningless in terms of real social or political power, as almost none of them come from the important tribes or families.  They will be the ones doing construction or driving taxis, but the major players, in business at least, will be Jordanian, and quite often, I've found, Jordanian Christians. 

And King Abdullah has, in what is one of the worst-kept secrets around, a very close econonic and diplomatic relationship with Israel, and if you ever want to see someone cracking some Palestinian heads, check out the Jordanian police in the West Bank. 

Frankly, I think most Jordanians would love to see an attempted Palestinian uprising, so they could get rid of them once and for all.  And that's exactly what would happen.  Look, Jordanians aren't Westerners, but I've lived in Turkey and in Jordan for nearly 15 years, and if one has to live in this region, Amman is the place.  And they are proud of that--of having an active Christian population--I could take you to 7-8 Christian churches any time you want to visit, and I hear the bells of the Greek Orthodox Church every Sunday morning.  Christians have Easter off--as Sunday is a workday--by government mandate, while the Moslems do not.  And there are a certain number of seats in Parliament reserved for Christians.  And most Jordanians have come to terms with their government being a friend to Israel, as part of being a forward-thinking, Western-aspiring country.  So my point is that there simply will not be enough popular support to become an Islamic hellhole, and any real attempt, from so-called Palestinians or from an outside group, will be put down pretty hard.  That's the only real potential for violence, and that's not something I myself would lose sleep over. 

 

 

 

126 Colonialism made a mess out of large regions of the world It also made the US, Canada, and Australia. And the Bahamas, I guess. To throw France a bone, aren't there a few South Pacific islands which are okay? Not saying it's good, not saying it's bad. It just is.

127

68 That would be correct sir -- it wasn't that long ago that the Palestine (as opposed to just "Palestine") was a large and largely unihabited area made up of a mish mash of peoples of differing tribal/racial/social/religious groups, all of which have very fierce loyalties to themselves and shifting allegiances to each other.

It's pretty mixed up, and an appropriate illustration of the middle eastern situation.

128 Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 01, 2011 12:04 PM

Purp, it wasn't all rosy but the alternative would almost certainly have been worse. Colonial powers -- well, at least the Brits -- left a great deal of infrastructure and other life-enhancements behind when they left. I'm not saying they were 100% benevolent, but imagine what Africa would be like today sans past colonialism.

And don't forget our oil companies ensuring the obscene wealth of a bunch of former camel-drivers in the ME by developing oil wells and attendant facilities that the Arabs could seize....

129

Wow, the crowds are getting larger, they now have 0.003 percent of the population protesting, demading a new leader and we have Democratic Senators on the tube saying that their people are demanding that he should step down so he has to. 

Last time I checked, we have far more than 0.003 percent of our population wanting Obama to step down.  Maybe he and his cohorts in D.C. should do the right thing and resign.

130 Good report, Mike In Amman. Thank you.

131 Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 01, 2011 11:44 AM (SJ6/3)

At first I thought you were joking, but now I am not so sure you understand. You do realize that my mother was born in the British Protectorate of Palestine and has a greater right than the current "Palestinians" to call herself a Palestinian?

132 116
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 01, 2011 11:59 AM (AdK6a)

I'd like to subscribe to your papyrus scroll.

133

Thanks, t-bird.  I go through most neighborhoods in Amman in the course of an normal week--working, shopping, and the like--and if I didn't read it in the news, I would have no clue that anything is happening here.  It's as quiet and flat-out boring as ever. 

134

Posted by: MikeinAmman at February 01, 2011 12:08 PM (elcpe)

Thanks to puttin' us to some f'n learnin.

Can you say what you do? Work for Hillary, do ya?

135 King Abdullah II is the world's only monarch with a walk-on acting part in Star Trek. He married an American, his mom is an American, as far as I'm concerned he's OK in my book. I hope he hangs on. Posted by: SGT Dan Where are you getting this information? Abdullah's mother was British-his father, Hussein's second wife. He was educated at Sandhurst and married Rania, a Palestinian woman. Three years in Amman taught me this much. But I do agree, he is a stand-up guy, and a good leader. I pray he can hold on, because his regime, handed down from his father, has lent a great deal of stability to the region.

136 Slightly O/T--I think the NYC sting in Arizona is designed to undermine Rudy's potential candidacy.  It'll serve as a reminder to our Western-tier GOP that Rudy lacks conservative bonafides on guns (as well as abortion).  Well played, Bloomie!

137 Posted by: ParisParamus at February 01, 2011 12:00 PM (bN5ZU)

Speak for yourself.

138 --It wasn't all rosy.  Raising massive armies capable of mass destruction and death in the millions wasn't something possible in diffused tribal structures.

Tribes would never advance enough to construct the modern machinery of death nation states are capable of.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 01, 2011 12:04 PM (wdPVD)

Human advancement is a drive for more energy.  Any energy production is capable of being used to build or destroy in greater ways.  The same way that millions of deaths weren't possible before, many of the billions who now exist on Earth wouldn't have been able to be supported, either.  Half of the world's population, by my estimate, wouldn't even be able to exist were it not because of the advances of the West and their spread to the rest of the world.

You kinow, China didn't have much of an expansionary motive.  It kept to itself for most of its history.  Because of that, even though China had many of the most important developments long before anyone else, it wasn't China that brought them to the world, but the Europeans.

The problem is that the West became timid and refused to just smack down nations that used modern advancements in order to destabilize the civilized world - as with the arabs taking over the gulf oil fields (which they never had any use for, themselves, as they have no industry) and using the power and money of the fields to do nothing but cause problems and build sinking skyscrapers in the sand.  The second part, at least, didn't threaten anyone.

139

The outcome of Colonialism depends on who colonized you--if you were colonized by Britain, you fared pretty well; if you were colonized by France, not so well; if you were colonized by Portugal, you were pretty screwed; if you were colonized by Belgium (more specifically, King Leopold), you were fucked. 

140 Posted by: moki at February 01, 2011 12:15 PM (dZmFh)

And when he was a youth he would visit friends from private school at their Ivy League frats and get hammered with them.

141 Look upon my work, ye mighty, and despair.

142 Thank you MikeinAmman.  Wasn't it the first King Hussein who beat down the "Palestinians" and kicked Arafish out of the country?  I understand there is no love there for the "Palestinian" people.

143 Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 01, 2011 12:18 PM (DPM1U)

The Spanish weren't slouches at destroying their colonies.

144

beedubya, if I worked for State, I'd never be on a site like this--I'd be a liberal undermining commonsense foreign policy every chance I got, and then crowing about my advanced degrees at dinner parties while my policies destroyed lives all over the world. 

Actually, after getting out of the Marines in 1995 and getting my Doctorate, I've been working largely in academics, in a liberal arts field, no less, at different universities in Ankara, Istanbul, and now Amman.

 

145
"It's easy to stoke anti-western sentiment there."

Remember, these are the people who believed that story about Israeli sharks in the Red Sea.

These are also the people who, in the 1960s, kicked out the Jews - a community that, in Alexandria, at least, had been established for millenia.

I don't think it's possible to misunderestimate the potential in a Muslim population for superstition, hysteria, and violence.

146 Wasn't it the first King Hussein who beat down the "Palestinians" and kicked Arafish out of the country? 

Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 01, 2011 12:21 PM (yQWNf)

That was Black September.  The Palis then went to Lebanon and caused massive problems there, as they have caused problems everywhere they touch.

147 The big question is what happens when a Russian backed despot has his revolution?  Syria for instance...will they back his play?  Crush the revolution...like Darth Vader with an attitude. Will other newly revolutionized states come to their people's aid?

148 King Abdullah also trained with the Marines at Quantico, and actually did the work--got in the mud and everything--unlike most other tinpot dictators and their sons who want to get a bunch of ribbons without earning them.  And that's something else the Jordanians are very proud of--the fact that their king is a real soldier.  Every once in a while, King Abdullah speaks of taking off his crown and putting on his uniform, and whatever group is causing trouble shuts up right quick. 

149 Posted by: Truck Monkey at February 01, 2011 12:21 PM (yQWNf)

The "Palestinians" killed Hussein's grandfather. There is definitely no love lost between the Hashemites and the "Arab interlopers."

150

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 01, 2011 12:18 PM (DPM1U)

Mark Steyn has some great points about the lasting (but maybe for not much longer) positive legacy of British colonialism - the US, India, Australia, Canada, some parts of Africa, etc-  in this otherwise depressing article

151 The Pillsbury Doughboy -- and soon-to-be-worker for T-Paw now seems to believe the Muzzie Bros' participation in Egypt's government is now inevitable.

He also seems to think that hey, that might not be all bad....

Good ol' TepidAir, finding little chunks of moderate goodness in a flood of steaming, runny shit.

When will he echo President Huey P. Newton Osama Obama and start talking about the "legitimate grievances of the people?"

152 The Spaniards brought VD and looted your treasuries.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 01, 2011 11:56 AM (wdPVD)

I thought it was the other way around. The Spaniards picked up VD from the natives and brought it back to Europe.

153 The Spaniards picked up VD from the natives and brought it back to Europe.

I think they brought syphilis, in exchange for gonorrhea.

154 China blocks #Egypt.  Yet another reason for Mr. Freidman to wax poetic about the superiority of the Chicoms. 

155

The Pillsbury Doughboy -- and soon-to-be-worker for T-Paw now seems to believe the Muzzie Bros' participation in Egypt's government is now inevitable.

He also seems to think that hey, that might not be all bad....

Admiral Eddie doesn't know anything that the MFM doesn't tell him. At the risk of coming close to violating Godwins Law, Hitler...and especially Mussolini got positive press here.

Frank Gaffney had a good article on the MB at one of Breitbart's sites this morning.

156 MikeinAmman By any chance, is Sanabel Restaurant still in Abdoun Circle? It was one of our favorites, with outstanding shish taouk and mutabbel. Our kids loved the pastries they would give them for dessert. If it is, and you haven't been, I would highly recommend it. And I agree totally with your synopsis of events several comments up. The Jordanians are wonderful people, and immensely proud of their country, and their king. I don't think they would let it go down without a serious fight.

157 155 Can't have the little people (or the muslims in the west) getting ideas

158 More from HotAir on Egypt:

In order to stay ahead of the crisis in Egypt, the Obama administration yesterday signaled that it supports the participation of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egyptian politics as long as they renounce violence and commit to democracy.

I support giving your toddlers a venomous cobra for Christmas, as long as it abstains from biting and chooses a vegetarian diet.

159 This is all very like the collapse of Russian hegemony over Eastern Europe. Similar talk of how any change would be bad, calls to prop up Gorby, etc. Even with extremist elements in the mix, like those events the end result of the end of totalitarianism in the area is likely to be a net positive for us and Israel. And trying to prop up any of them, even Jordan is likely to fail.

Israel in particular would be of no help in pacifying the country for the government. Their army could kick ass and take names, but it then has to go away and go back to work. A long term occupation of a seething populace just isn't what they can do, even ignoring the jew hatred they invoke.

160 I support giving your toddlers a venomous cobra for Christmas, as long as it abstains from biting and chooses a vegetarian diet.

Nice.

161 In order to stay ahead of the crisis in Egypt, the Obama administration yesterday signaled that it supports the participation of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egyptian politics as long as they renounce violence and commit to democracy.

I support giving your toddlers a venomous cobra for Christmas, as long as it abstains from biting and chooses a vegetarian diet.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at February 01, 2011 12:34 PM (mHQ7T)

That worked so well with Arafat.

162 The next President of the United States chimes in:

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Lake Jackson, is blaming U.S. policy for the upheaval in Egypt.

"This is a typical example of what happens when we run on intervention-type foreign policies. We get in the middle of these fights. We've been in the middle of this for 30 years now. We've given Mubarak $60 billion. We're responsible for a lot of the mess that is over there," Paul said this afternoon on FOX News Channel's Your World with Neil Cavuto.

Paul, a potential Senate candidate in Texas next year, is a longstanding critic of foreign entanglements, and probably Congress' leading isolationist. His son, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., caused a stir in recent days by advocating for the cutoff of aid to Israel, in the context of a broader push to eliminate all foreign aid. It's a goal he shares with his father.

"I wouldn't just cut off Egyptian aid. I'd cut off all aid to the Middle East and maybe that whole area would be better off for it," the congressman told Fox.

As for concerns that the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, or even Al-Qaeda, would fill the power vacuum if Mubarak is forced out, Paul said the real problem stems from a U.S. habit of propping up authoritarian leaders. Both Mubarak and the deposed Shah of Iran became targets of popular revolt because they were "our puppet government," he said.

"There was a blowback to us and you had an unintended consequence," he said. "Yes, I think we have to worry about the radicals, but we have to understand how they get their motivation."



and then he drank a glass of fluoridated tap water and dissolved before our very eyes....

163

The outcome of Colonialism depends on who colonized you--if you were colonized by Britain, you fared pretty well; if you were colonized by France, not so well; if you were colonized by Portugal, you were pretty screwed; if you were colonized by Belgium (more specifically, King Leopold), you were fucked. 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at February 01, 2011 12:18 PM (DPM1U)

There are basically two kinds of colonies - exploitation, where the colonialists are looting to go back home, and settlement, where you intend to stay there. Exploitation colonies are pretty bad, pretty much regardless of who sets them up. 

164 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at February 01, 2011 12:46 PM (NmKUg)

Whenever I hear Ron Paul talk, I always think he is only a milisecond away from saying, "And yes, aliens DO walk among us in disguise..."

165

Posted by: MikeinAmman at February 01, 2011 12:21 PM (elcpe)

heh! Couldn't the same be said about those in academia??

 

166

136, I WAS WRONG

I half-remembered some shit about he met his wife when he went to college in the States, and I knew his mom wasn't from there. I should have Googled it first.

But the acting credit for Star Trek is legit.

memory-alpha  DOT org/wiki/Abdullah_II_of_Jordan

167 Yeah, but they'll be scared shitless by their new Islamist government. No popular liberation front there, I'll bet. Just bodies sinking into the cold, cold ground.

168 167 That totally rocks. Sorry about sounding like a shrieking harridan-I didn't mean to. I think very highly of Abdullah II and wish the best for Jordan. If you can get past the driving, it's a lovely country. Petra is the most amazing thing I have ever seen. I would truly hate to see the tels and digs in the hands of the MB. I think they would do to those sites as the "Palestinians" did to the Church of the Nativity, Jacob's Tomb, and other Biblical treasures. In Israel.

169 If the "Palestinians" act up, the Jordanians will crush them. Those Jordanians who would have arisen against their own government will be diverted to expressing their anger to the interlopers in their midst. The "uprising" will sputter in Jordan if the "Palestinians" are at the forefront.

170 IIRC, The king of Jordan has a younger 1/2 brother whose mother was an American.  He was considered way too young to succeed at his father's death.

171 I swear to God Ed and Allah at Hot Air are freaking naive as hell. "The best we can hope for is the Muslim Brotherhood renounce violence." Really? What fucking tools they are. I understand they attempt to be pragmatic, but seriously? We (the U.S.) should condone the participation of the Muslim Brotherhood in any government formed in Egypt. Really? Read their charter for God sake.

As one of our more renown morons is wont to say, this will only lead to chaos!!!

172 171-that would be one of Noor's children. She had four with Hussein, and they all went to school in the US. Abdullah is the son of Hussein's British wife, Antoinette Avril Gardner. Prince Hamzah and Prince Hashim are the two sons of Noor.

173

@47: "No one is a Palestinian."

Best go an' fuck yourself there, pardner.

174 Mikeinamman pretty much has the right of it regarding Jordan.  I spent three years(2002-2005) there working for State, and the short version is that the "native" Jordanians really don't like the "palestians".  Goes back to the unpleasentness Abdullah's father had with them in the early '70's.  (Another "thank you jimmah craper" moment - he's the one that sent the US navy to evacuate the survivors from the med beach instead of letting them die as they should have.)

175 altın çilek - fx15 - leke kremi - yudali - maurers - ozon yağı