1 57th!

2 Don't forget that many of our banks are holding a lot of that debt thanks to the IMF and our stupid government.

We are already on the brink ourselves. Their collapse will almost certainly bring about our collapse.

3 I suspect that in the end the euro will continue, but many a nation will ALSO use a national currency as a "parallel currency" that will be the de facto REAL money. Look, did Europe really fight off German hegemony in two world wars only to literally sell their nations to them via the "eurozone"? I hope not.

4 Something brown this way comes.

5 Where IS Europe, anyway? Isn't that wedged in somewhere between Algeria and Saudi Arabia?

6 OT:  how can they release those job figures with a straight face?

7 Posted by: CoolCzech at January 07, 2011 10:20 AM (tJjm/)

The Euro for inter-country transactions, and the national currency for internal stuff? That could get very, very confusing, and the currency markets would have a field day with the weird things that would go on between the two currencies.

8 I suspect that in the end the euro will continue, but many a nation will ALSO use a national currency as a "parallel currency" that will be the de facto REAL money. Posted by: CoolCzech at January 07, 2011 10:20 AM (tJjm/) How would that work?

9

Ah, cut your budgets?  I know, crazy talk.  Far better to hurt everyone with an economic collapse than to cause even one bureaucrat to work past 60.

But our newly-minted legislature can't wring a hundred billion out of our multi-trillion budget, so never mind.   

 

10 Posted by: ParisParamus at January 07, 2011 10:23 AM (Q16sd)

And I won't cum in your mouth.

11 Does getting boned hurt? If it does, can I loosen up a bit first?

12

This week, Portugal became the latest country to threaten the integrity of the eurozone when it saw the yield on its Treasury bills soar, based on investors' fears that it would be unable to pay its debt.

Aaaaaaannnnnnd, THERE is the undiscussed rabid T-Rex in our closet.  If our interest rates tick up _justthismuch, guess what?  We're Portugal.

Did I mention that our interest rates will inevitably have to climb?  We're already Portugal.

13 Substitute US for Europe and dollar for euro. Math works the same here doesn't it?

14 Substitute US for Europe and dollar for euro. Math works the same here doesn't it?

Posted by: Some dope at January 07, 2011 10:30 AM (Gh3dS)

It's a little different because we control everything about the Dollar. So we may be boned too but we get some KY which is called Quantitative Easing.

15 Now wait a sec. Why does everyone seem to think that leaving the Euro will cure anything? The debt is in eruo's. They have two choices -- either default, which will be bad for foreign banks, but no different than if the euro never existed, or austerity. Everyone seems to think that getting out of the euro will change the debt problem when it will not. it is too late for that. it would have been nice if the PIGS were not in the Euro, and then they could just print money (like US!) but that horse is out of the barn and fucking the chickens. The only problem solved by getting out of the Euro is that Germany can wash it's hands of it's deadbeat neighbors and the overpaid gov and union workers can continue to be overpaid in worthless new currency hot of the presses. Leaving the Euro solves political problems, not economic ones.

16 OT but funny updates just heard on the radio:

The Russians who just won the World Junior Hockey Championship against Canada here in Winnipeg --all 30 of the team contingent-- were booted off their Delta flight for drunken rowdiness.

Meanwhile, the tragicomic flip side: There's speculation that one reason for the runner-up Canadians' epic collapse (5 goals surrendered in the third period) was due to the team's premature post-game celebration planning.  They were too busy sucking each others' dicks on the ice to play, basically.

17

OT: Residency requirement could be part of LePage welfare overhaul (Lewiston (ME) Sun Journal)

 

 

18 US = Dead Man Walking

19 At the rate Europe and the U.S. are going, it looks like we'll have to break out the wheelbarrows to tote our cash to the supermarket to buy a quart of milk.  Or, the Weimar Republic revisited.  Or Confederate dollars, if you prefer something closer to home.

20 If you like your eurozone...

21 We could use a Monty DOOOOOOOOMMMMMM thread right about now.  Wait until the world makes a move away from the dollar as the 'reserve currency'.  They are making moves in that direction right now.  We won't be Portugal or Greece at that point..... we'll beYugoslavia.

22 Barter system anyone? 

23

It's a little different because we control everything about the Dollar.

Not "everything" with the amount of bonds in the hands of foreign central banks.  Example:  To stave off losses for another QE, China dumps bonds and the dollar will tank.

We're in trouble and if we do not get some steely-eyed realism going about our fiscal situation soon, we're not going to be able to do anythign about it.

24 15, Yes, what is the solution in having a dozen countries all race to hyperinflation? Consider how all these matters depend on the reported Chinese economic numbers being somewhere close to the truth.

25 Sorta OT:

From Zero Hedge:

Labor Force Participation Rate Drops To Fresh 25 Year Low, Adjusted Unemployment Rate At 11.7%

While today's unemployment number came at a low 9.4%, well below expectations, the one and only reason for this is that the labor force in America has plunged to a fresh 25 year low. Assuming a reversion to the mean in the long-term average participation rate back to 66%, means that the civilian labor force, which in December came at 153,690, a drop of 260,000 from November, is in reality 157.6 million, a delta of 3.91 million currently unaccounted for. Maybe someone can ask Bernanke during his imminent presentation before Congress what happened to the unemployed population, which would have been 18.4 million if this labor force delta was incorporated, resulting in an unemployment rate of 11.7%.

26 Here's something I wonder: If these European socialist paradises start shuttering, do the Arabs start returning to the Middle East after their welfare payments dry up?

27

I propose a Heinikin bottle cap currency. I'll be RICH!!!! And I'll own a mansion and a yacht!

 

 

28

We could be like Europe!  or Illinois!  Or California!

Bliss!  Union pension tax payer slave bliss.

29 Here's something I wonder: If these European socialist paradises start shuttering, do the Arabs start returning to the Middle East after their welfare payments dry up? Posted by: logprof at January 07, 2011 10:41 AM (BP6Z1) Only after a little car burning.

30 #14 It's a little different because we control everything about the Dollar. So we may be boned too but we get some KY which is called Quantitative Easing.

That will only be an option for a limited amount of time.  With all these side deals nations are formulating to circumvent the dollar, if we don't get our own fiscal house in order soon, you can kiss "The Dollar is King" goodbye forever.  

31 >>Leaving the Euro solves political problems, not economic ones. The two are not mutually exclusive. The end of the euro also means the end of the eurozone which is all politics. Instead of one united Europe we will have a Europe of failed states and and relatively prosperous ones living next door to each other which will lead to instability, chaos and if things go as they always have throughout history, conflict. With a newly emboldened Russia and a fast rising China, I am less than chipper about future prospects.

32

I propose a Heinikin bottle cap currency.

The Dutch are kinda Scandi-ish.  So, no, you filthy Scandi lover.

33

I propose a Heinikin bottle cap currency. I'll be RICH!!!! And I'll own a mansion and a yacht!

 

 

Posted by: dananjcon at January 07, 2011 10:41 AM (pr+up)

traitor! we only accept valu rite caps here

34

I am less than chipper about future prospects.

I've had the August 1914 vibe going for about two years now.

35

Kill the capitalist machine!  we can pay people to do nothing!  Paradise!

36 Only after a little car burning How come when the citizens do it is called vandalism, but when the gov does it is called stimulus?

37

I propose a Heinikin bottle cap currency.

The Dutch are kinda Scandi-ish.  So, no, you filthy Scandi lover.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at January 07, 2011 10:47 AM (B+qrE)

Don't hate me cuz I like Scandi-ish beer. Its better than Bud which is also now scandi-ish; Imbev. Coors is swill. Sams Adams is too New England-ish. And Micro brews are too Yuppy-ish.

   

38  If these European socialist paradises start shuttering, do the Arabs start returning to the Middle East after their welfare payments dry up?
Posted by: logprof at January 07, 2011 10:41 AM (BP6Z1)

Arabs will likely park them next to Palistinians and say they must have ALL Israel it has always been  Their land . Arab countries themselves open their door to their people, fat chance.

39

The only problem solved by getting out of the Euro is that Germany can wash it's hands of it's deadbeat neighbors and the overpaid gov and union workers can continue to be overpaid in worthless new currency hot of the presses.

Yeah, the Germans have no history of stabbing their neighbors.  Totally peace-loving race.

40 although Logprof, I must say i was surprised/heartened at Egyption muslims saying they themselves would be human shields against the extremistsand help protect the copts,. actually made me feel as if maybe some do want to be decent.

41 Once a country's debt-to-GDP ratio gets high enough, it becomes impossible for it to generate enough future taxes to repay its existing debt and interest costs.

Not true.  As long as the debt is denominated in the currency of the crown and not backed by something fixed (e.g. "gold"), then the debt can be paid back through currency devaluation.  Of course, the result will be higher inflation.

Now for some countries (e.g. Germany), an exit from the Euro might be preferable to assuming the debt of the "shit countries" (as Ali G.terms them), but they can certainly wreck their economies to maintain the Euro.

42 My call to the Psychic Friends Network revealed this information: Europe and the US will continue to do everything and anything to keep the status quo. There will be no meaningful change at all, and tiny little pinkie bandages will be applied over and over to the metaphorical gunshot wound to the chest.

43 Can I interest anyone out there in a little thing I'm working on called the "New Dollar" (O en Nuevo Dólares para nuestros futuros ciudadanos de habla española).

Essentially, it will be worth about 100 old dollars and all public debt will be paid off at this rate.

Private debt will also be payable at this rate for those households earning less that $70K a year or for public servants. undocumented protocitizens and Union members.  For Rich People (making more than $70K and/or White), the debt will be payable in New Dollars ( Nuevo Dólares) at a 1 to 1 ratio.

Social justice baby!

44

Another OT, but haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. 

Republicans introduce bill to eliminate presidential 'czars' (Link goes to TheHill.com)

 

45 we may are be boned too but we get some KY which is called Quantitative Easing.

I've got more for you.

46 8 I suspect that in the end the euro will continue, but many a nation will ALSO use a national currency as a "parallel currency" that will be the de facto REAL money. Posted by: CoolCzech at January 07, 2011 10:20 AM (tJjm/) How would that work? Posted by: eman at January 07, 2011 10:23 AM (0aJSF) In practice, just the national currency would be used. When the euro was first introduced, wasn't there a system of parallel currencies for a while, before the national currency was phased out altogether? What I'm saying is, the euro would really begin to phase out.

47

So is there still a bunch of crap going around about how totally awesome and smart the Europeans are and how we should be just like them?

_{That's a rhetorical question.}

48

I laugh at these Euros.  That's what they get for surrendering their sovereignty.  Giving up the ability to print your own money, and denominate your debts in said money, is the dumbest thing any government can do. 

As for fears of US inflation, the doom and gloom is over done.  It should be reassuring that the only signs we've had are in energy and food.  Yes - those matter.  But there's nothing we can do to bring food down in the face of rising international demand.  Killing ethanol will do little.  And perhaps rising energy costs will finally push enough of the sheeple into supporting nuclear power and opening up more drilling in the US.  It's that, or learn to go without (which I think most of us would rather not do).  Anyway, with inflation nearly flat, and with deflation in the cost of housing (yet another core cost of living) we can certainly afford to actually start printing money and move beyond the QE asset swaps, which seem like a half-measure to me.  Right now there is a lot of deleveraging taking cash out of the economy.  We also have massive wealth stratification, which also takes money out of the economy since the rich don't exactly go out and blow all their dough on yachts and such - they invest and save and make even bigger piles to sit on.  We've gone beyond the 80/20 rule of wealth distribution, which I suspect is unhealthy for the real economy.  We also have the Chinese sucking dollars out of the economy by running a surplus with us.  Finally, we have massive open capacity in terms of labor, manufacturing capacity, and service capacity.  The lack of money supply and velocity is what's holding back consumption and production. 

49 If the math says one thing and the law says something different, it will be the law that ends up changing.

That's why I don't believe that all those sacred cow unfunded pensions will remain as is. They WILL have to be changed at some point.

50 48 I laugh at these Euros. That's what they get for surrendering their sovereignty. Yes, and think who they are effectively giving up their sovereignty TO... the GERMANS! Two world wars, just so they willingly submit to something that calls itself "European Union," but really is little more than Greater Germany. The Europeans really had their balls lopped off during the course of the 20th century.

51 Yes, and think who they are effectively giving up their sovereignty TO... the GERMANS! Two world wars, just so they willingly submit to something that calls itself "European Union," but really is little more than Greater Germany.

The Europeans really had their balls lopped off during the course of the 20th century.

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 07, 2011 12:01 PM (tJjm/)

Indeed.  Luckily for the rest of the Euros, the Germans have been equally neutered.  Just wait until the US finally closes down the military bases (can't happen soon enough!).  They'll be defenseless, or else have to pay for their own militaries.  See how great their economic model looks then! 

Even though most of the Brits have become cultureless trash, thanks to the Marxists, I still give them some kudos - at least they refused to give up the pound.  And there are still a few leaders left there that are unwilling to bend the knee to a bunch of prancing continentals.  Too bad that sort is a dying breed.  I hope we give Lady Thatcher asylum here when the mobs finally try to murder her.

52 Two world wars and Europe looks to Germany to be their rescue ship, white knight, or do-gooder here to save them.  The Germans got shafted when the Euro became the currency of the realm.  Shafted again by the Greek collapse, ditto Ireland.  Now Portugal and Spain are tottering?  Don't be shocked when Merkel and the Germans scream 'Nein! Euro kaput!'  Then Europe returns to what they do best, kill each other.

53 Then Europe returns to what they do best, kill each other.

Posted by: Anna Puma at January 07, 2011 01:37 PM (N0KEB)

Well, I suspect the EU could fracture, but I don't see much motivation for any of them to go to war.  There's not much profit in that, really, and nobody craves "living space" and military glory these days.  Plus they're largely disarmed.  I guess, though, there might be some chance that the Russians will see their chance and march in, but that seems pretty counterproductive to me.  The old envies and hates don't seem to be stirring like in the old days.

54

It's a little different because we control everything about the Dollar. So we may be boned too but we get some KY which is called Quantitative Easing.

Posted by: Rocks at January 07, 2011 10:32 AM (Q1lie)

Remember the Chinese toothpaste scare? That KY you're talking about is also made in China.

55 Damn sock...

56

#51, I have a file folder involving running two shiploads of light ordnance and a couple companies of contract light infantry to the British coast when their Muzzies get out of control.

Assuming I can beat the Muzzies to the gold vaults of the Bank of England, there might be some profit involved, plus lesser members of the the Royal Family might want a reliable ride.

57 Jeez...when is this fucker gonna collapse already, I'm shorting the euro...come on, just implode already. So rude.

58 Then Europe returns to what they do best, kill each other. Well, they're good at that, alright, but they also used to be good at a few other things - like producing awesome art, music and architecture. That's the reason some of us mourn the passing of Europe. However, they can't even do that right anymore. I was watching Anthony Bourdain's "No Reservations" the other day. Bourdain was interviewing some avant-garde artiste in Berlin. The guy was basically throwing paint on a wall over random photographs while mumbling away about how we are all gods or artists or some damn thing. Bourdain talked about what a "revolutionary" this guy was. B.S. The idiot said nothing different from what 10,000 "edgy" artistes and NEA grant recipients have been saying for the past 100 years. He's about as cutting edge and fascinating as my Aunt Hattie.