1 The plan is to pretend to have a plan.

2 The Marxist Man-Child remains disingenuous. Who knew?

3 The more plans I see, the more I like doing nothing.  Don't raise the debt ceiling, and real cuts of an appropriate size begin immediately.

4 Content? WTF? I was told there'd be no content today.

5 Oh, and good morning, ace.

6 I love it when a plan falls apart

7
I saved a million dollars today from Future Whores Unbought.

8 I am unsurprised.

9 Golfing, making speeches and campaigning is no way to go through life, son.

10

Not going to spend any more money on the Shuttle program and scuttled 8000 high paying jobs.

Count it!

Another Trillion dollar cut!

See Dingy Hairy I got me a sleezy button too!

11

12 Free Tami and '80sbaby!

13

Boehner should counter with this: Same deal, but reduce the increase to just $500B. Just to see what happens.

14 If the Democrats believe Doomageddon is at hand if we cut government spending, regulation, and intervention then go ahead and let us do it. Hey, if you're right, you're guaranteed winners next election!

15 At what point to Republicans (even the "fiscal hawk" Republicans) grow enough of a brain-stem to start saying, "Any 'cut' to any 'spending' which is not already budgeted is not a 'cut.'  Any reduction in the rate of growth is not a 'cut.'  To cut spending, we actually have to spend less than we were planning on spending anyway.

'Cuts' means we spend less this year on something than we did last year.  Or, at least, less than was appropriated."

16 The best way of making sure cuts take place is to let the debt ceiling stand as is.  The cuts will be real and immediate.  I don't care who gets "blamed".  I do know who should get credit, though.  The only down-side is that a child and a tax-cheat will be in charge of expenditures. 

17 The point is, this is still the same $1 T Biden and his team agreed to a month and a half ago, added to some phantom cuts, to claim that there is a 1-to-1 exchange of cuts and debt ceiling increase.

Barry told me there'd be no math in this job! 

*poot*

18 Will not have the support of the House's fiscal hawk wing, because its cuts are puny, and mostly imaginary.

Imaginary cuts in exchange for real debt.  What could possibly go wrong?

19
If an empty "lockbox" was opened in the forest, and no one was there, would it make a headline?

20 I'm selling bonds that are collateralized by the savings I'll incur by not buying a corporate jet. What am I bid?

21 19 If an empty "lockbox" was opened in the forest, and no one was there, would it make a headline? Posted by: Albert Gorestein at July 25, 2011 01:58 PM (gppu7) No, but you'd better buy some carbon credits just in case.

22 You know King Putt has really lost it when Pelosi and Reid can't please him as liberal socialist enough anymore.

23

We won't be taking over any car companies in the next three years so count that as a 1/2 a trillion dollar cut Dingy!

 

And Big oil! We won't be buildin any oil rigs on shore, off shore or any where else in violation of a federal Judges orders so count subsidies to that as a cut of 1/4 billion.

See there I could be a Senaster too!

24 Ask Reid if this line of crap means anything to Moodys or S&P. See if any of them are impressed. If not, push off.

25 O/T: Teleprompter. Marquee tag. That is all!

26 damn it

27 The only down-side is that a child and a tax-cheat will be in charge of expenditures.

If I were el JEFfe, this is what I'd count on (and, frankly, he may be...): Consider: he (and the Dems in Congress, and the MFM) has been making a great deal of hay over the supposed default.  What if the point is to convince people that we'll default if we don't raise the debt ceiling, then to get the credit for "avoiding a catastrophic default" by just doing his job?

In the business world, we call it "managing expectations."  It's like in StarTrek:TNG when Scotty admits to Giordi that he always multiplies his real estimate by 7, so he can seem so much more awesome.

28 Imaginary cuts in exchange for real debt.  What could possibly go wrong?

I see no problem here.

29
$1.4T in cuts over how many years? I noticed that isn't the linked piece.

30 Jesus, even when Democrats make imaginary cuts, they come solely from the military.

Maybe its time for all us enlisted drones to form a union.  They would be throwing money at us.

31
I suspect we'll find out these cuts proposed by Reid are over 10 or 12 years, which is an insult to the American people.

32 I don't know why the JEF doesn't want this to come up next year, since the MBM dutifully blames any impediments to raising the credit card limit again, and the "vast moderate middle" duly blames the GOP

But then again, I don't play 21 dimensional chess

33 This is great, Obama calls FDR a fiscal conservative

34 3The more plans I see, the more I like doing nothing. Don't raise the debt ceiling, and real cuts of an appropriate size begin immediately.

Posted by: Vashta.Nerada at July 25, 2011 01:52 PM (jqLfq)

And let it continue until a CCB Constitutional Amendment and a line-item veto pass. Whatever was being paid can continue into the first balanced budget.

35 Per telephone call from Speaker Boehner to Limbaugh:     ROUND ONE.    1 Trillion of cuts to 1 trillion in debt increase.
    No taxes.    Short term deal to April 2012.   No defense cuts.
    Cuts by House Senate panels in this 9 month period.
        ROUND TWO:    requires a stand alone vote on the Balanced Budget Amendment.

This is the House GOP proposal.     I see Obama vetoing this....because we do this again during the general election.

If SEN agrees though, we could have Veto overide.

Fun week

36 P.S. So glad I hit the ejection button in 2007.  Hopefully, those of you still on active duty, or in the constantly-called-up-reserves, can hang on for another eighteen months.

37 The $2.4 trillion is bullshit cuts too. That's over 10 years, and, as everyone knows, this Congress cannot control the spending of any OTHER Congress. So, thats $240 billion a year for 10 years. So, it's only a cut of $240 billion in a deficit of $1.7 trillion. What's the fucking point? Still leaves us with about $1.5 trillion EVERY YEAR of deficit spending, most of which accrues to the benefit of Democrats/Bureaucrats. Why should Republicans vote for this piece of shit bill that guarantees $1.5 trillion deficits benefiting Democrats for as far as the eye can see? Is NPR still up and running? We still funding Democrats with bullshit college research? Like I said ... the Republicans are getting fucking rolled and Ace can't even DETECT IT.

38 Obama's definition of "compromise" seems to be similar to the Soviet definition of "peace" ...

39

It looks like Boehner is going to do it to us again.

2.4 trillion in cuts that turns out to be $7.34 and a six pack of Orange Crush.

40

These proposed deals are aboslute jokes. We are totally screwed. We needed Washington to start cutting right now, not later, if we were to have a chance.

41

#20

T-bird, I will give you half of the profits from the pork belly contract I don't buy, but only half./

42 But, we changed the label and made the box smaller.

43
We must raise taxes so I can buy Michelle some shoes. She's got to run around the White House barefoot, and it's embarrassing.

44 To paraphrase Monty from earlier today, this debt ceiling mummery is just a dog-and-pony sideshow. Fresh spending will be the only outcome of raising the ceiling. Furthermore, spending "cuts" set several years out have no evident enforcement mechanism, given that Congress can change its mind with every new session. In any case such chimerical cuts are too small to roll back Doom™ Inc.; as someone mentioned in the doom thread, have we ever seen spending cuts promised in the future actually materialize in their promised substance? The only outcome of Dick Soetero's soap opera "Days of Our Liabilities" will be political posturing designed to benefit one party or another. Real progress on debt? Whom are they kidding?

45

This new budget deal calls off the funding we set aside for WW 3, so really it's more like 5 Trillion in cuts

46 I don't know why the JEF doesn't want this to come up next year, since the MBM dutifully blames any impediments to raising the credit card limit again, and the "vast moderate middle" duly blames the GOP

But then again, I don't play 21 dimensional chess

Particularly considering that according to the 'Bamster, 80% of the population want taxes raised sky high.

47 $1.4T in cuts over how many years? I noticed that isn't the linked piece.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 25, 2011 02:01 PM (sqkOB)

Probably ten years, or $140 billion per year.  BTW, just to cover the money Turbo Timmy 'borrowed' from the government employee pension fund over the past month will eat this year's savings.

48

I just found us $2.7 Trillion dollars in education savings in the educations we won't have to give aborted fetuses.

 

49 @38 Oh look, ace's mother-in-law joins us here today.  Been awhile.  How ya doing, you hyperventilating numbnuts?

50 The war-funding "cuts" can be thought of in this way:

Let's say that I budget $250 per month for maintenance on my rickety HVAC system in my house (filters, cleaning, inreased used of gas and electricity due to inefficiency, etc.). If I'm drawing up a yearly budget in January, I figure I'm going to spend $3000 over the course of the year on heating/venting/cooling needs ($250/mo * 12 months).

I make it a point to lay aside $3000 for that expected cost (though "lay aside" is a misnomer; I actually just create a spot for it in my ledger as an ongoing liability).

But let's say that my rickety old HVAC system actually performs better than I thought it would, and ends up requiring fewer filters over the course of the year than I expected. Also, electricity and natural gas are somewhat cheaper than I expected. I find at midyear that I've only spent $230/mo on maintenance instead of $250/mo. So I go into my ledger, cross out the $3000, and write in $2760 instead.

By a Democrat's lights, I have just "cut" my expenses by $240 for the year, even though the year isn't over yet. (Even though I still have six months to go in the year, and gas and electric prices may go back up, and my HVAC system's blower motor may go out or the thermistor may burn up, requiring repairs.)

51


Shut up and eat your peas, underling.

And pass this edict.  Now.

52 "If SEN agrees though, we could have Veto overide."

No way enough Dems in the the House cross over for an override though.

53

And let it continue until a CCB Constitutional Amendment and a line-item veto pass. Whatever was being paid can continue into the first balanced budget.

--------------

Line-itme veto? When did that get in the mix? I'll fight that till I'm blue in face.

54 Just heard on the radio that the FAA's funding is being withheld and 4,000 workers, not including air controllers, are on furlough. Is anyone missing a beat out there in the world of air travel?

55
Give Obama his $2.5T in exchange for the full repeal of Obamacare. I'd go for that.

56 Boehner is the Amy Winehouse of fiscal responsibility.

57 Obama - "The Days of Whine and Poses"

58 39 Obama's definition of "compromise" seems to be similar to the Soviet definition of "peace" ... Posted by: gm at July 25, 2011 02:04 PM (K0tm3) His idea of compromise is to promise a reach-around 5 years from now. Maybe.

59 Can someone explain to me why the liberals want tax increases?  I mean even liberal voters don't want tax increases so why wouldn't their need to raise taxes impact them in future elections?

When they took the removal of the bush tax cuts off the table it was because they knew they had the AMT in their back pockets.  The republicans were the only ones who thought they got a victory.  The dems were back slapping at how clever they were.   A lot of people have been hit with the AMT, people it was not meant to address.  It was allegedly only for the rich but tell that to my neighbors the fireman married to the nurse who are now setting up a payment plan with the IRS after their taxes have been reconfigured.

they have a huge short fall from unemployment.  They are out there eeking out every last bit of tax owed from anyone but not if you are a dem or a legislator and they must have something, through all of this, in their back pocket, like the  AMT cause either wise we are going into constant crisis mode?

60 “A professional politician is a professionally dishonorable man. In order to get anywhere near high office he has to make so many compromises and submit to so many humiliations that he becomes indistinguishable from a streetwalker.” –

H.L. Mencken

61 @58 Heh, that's a good one.

62 CUT

63 Tell you what, I'll take on a few more tons of water now and you can fix the hole twice as good next week.

64 And what would be the reaction of the financial markets and the credit rating firms if the "phantom spending cuts" plan is enacted?  Haven't the the raters been making noises about lowering the  AAA rating to AA if the debt ceiling legislation is enacted without major, specific spending cuts?

What would happen to Obama's election chances if credit raters lowered the US credit rate before the election - with the president's preferred plan in place?

65 “Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.”

– H.L. Mencken

66 40. Ooooooh, orange crush? Toss in some little debbies and I say go for it!!!! Sorry but I'm kinda ghetto

67

Can someone explain to me why the liberals want tax increases

they need the money to fund the programs they use to buy votes.

 

simply as that. Want ain't got nothing to do with it, it's about need.

68 BTW, Rush had a caller so stupid my audio stream collapsed into a singularity. The idiot said "When I spend money it benefits me; when the government spends our taxes it benefits everyone." One wonders how vegetable matter is able to call in to a radio program. Articulated leaves? Prehensile roots?

69 I've also figured that we will no longer need  the future spending towards moving our entire civilization to the 8th dimenson. So that's like 15 quadrillion in savings right there.

70 Rome wasn't destroyed in a day

71 Those "cuts," however, are entirely of the phantom variety --......

What I would like to know is WHY the Moron-o-sphere on the "nets is the ONLY ones who are saying this. Fox has climbed totally into Otrama's pants on this issue. They are not even making an effort to appear balanced.

72 Unless and until a major government agency like the Dept. of Education or Dept. of Energy is actually abolished and its' former employees are wandering the streets of D.C. with bewildered stares I will not believe the GOP is earnestly interested in cutting government.

73 But then again, I don't play 21 dimensional chess Neither do I. I leave that shit to Spock. I play "Hide the Captain's Log" with the female yeomen.

74 What about the $1 bajillion savings we'll see by scraping the manned mission to the Andromeda galaxy?

Phew! Catastrophe averted!

75 You all know damn well the spending cuts will never happen in reality. The MBM however will duly report that the GOP is being intransigent even though El JEFe and Dingy Harry agreed to over a TRILLION in cuts.

And we snarked on the Chinese ordering their media to report only happy stories on the train wreck

76 70 I've also figured that we will no longer need the future spending towards moving our entire civilization to the 8th dimenson. So that's like 15 quadrillion in savings right there. Posted by: Harry at July 25, 2011 02:11 PM (wnGI4) Laugh-a now, monkey boy...

77 I am about to join those 60 hardcore Republicans in the House who are saying PISS on OBama, Reid, and McConnel we will not vote for an increase under any conditions.

That will require them to instantly balance the budget. All the cuts at once.

78

It looks like Boehner is going to do it to us again.

2.4 trillion in cuts that turns out to be $7.34 and a six pack of Orange Crush.

Posted by: Ben at July 25, 2011 02:04 PM (wuv1c)

mmm and They will drink the crush/

79 69 BTW, Rush had a caller so stupid my audio stream collapsed into a singularity. The idiot said "When I spend money it benefits me; when the government spends our taxes it benefits everyone."

One wonders how vegetable matter is able to call in to a radio program. Articulated leaves? Prehensile roots?

Posted by: George Orwell at July 25, 2011 02:10 PM (AZGON)

Pando became self-aware after that camper used me for a urinal. I swore my revenge at the meat-sacks. Die bags of mostly water!

80 Will someone please un-ban Tami and '80sbaby? 

81 OT, but did anyone else catch Bob Beckel on Red Eye about a week and a half ago? I never liked him before, having only seen him on other shows, but holy crap is he funny. I know there's video floating around. Arguably the funniest Red Eye ever.

82 @60 It is quite simple:

1. Liberals who are not stinking rich want taxes on those they believe ARE stinking rich.  Class envy, jealously, schadenfreude.

2. Liberals who are stinking rich are either indulging in pornographic guilt, or are safe and secure in the knowledge they can employ people who will help them avoid the onus of the new rates.* 

*Note that tax increases apply to income from actually having a job of those who are building their wealth, not the trust funds of progressive fucks whiling away their days at a social justice non-profit.

83 Stupid sock.

84

Will someone please un-ban Tami and '80sbaby? 

And Chuck Z

85

Just heard on the radio that the FAA's funding is being withheld and 4,000 workers, not including air controllers, are on furlough.

Is anyone missing a beat out there in the world of air travel?

-----------

Now there is a story that has me pissed off. The FAA can no longer collect a specific tax, so people figured they were going to be paying somewhere around 7.0% less for their air travel. No. The big airlines just jacked their rates up by 7.0%. That honestly hurts the conservative position of "lowering taxes lowers prices of consumer goods." Here we have a total cancellation of a tax, and the airlines respond by just upping their price. Oy.

86

Posted by: cherry ðNot cherry ðat July 25, 2011 02:11 PM (OhYCU)

You have a drop down sock selector? Nice.

87 Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and John Boehner in ...

MY BIG FAT GREEK BUDGET

88 73 Unless and until a major government agency like the Dept. of Education or Dept. of Energy is actually abolished and its' former employees are wandering the streets of D.C. with bewildered stares I will not believe the GOP is earnestly interested in cutting government. Posted by: Dave at July 25, 2011 02:11 PM (Xm1aB) They look like that anyway so it's not really useful as an indicator.

89 and you'll smile and like it.

90 Monty is right - debt ceiling negotiations are a dog and pony show. Entering into negotiations was Boehner's first mistake. "Talking" is supposed to be the President's strong suit. So they should have just passed some bills and said you know where to go from here. I am also on record as saying the Ryan Plan was lame because it wasn't NEARLY as extreme as it needed to be. And yet even Republicans were in the business of calling it too extreme. So now Democrats are busy saying well Ryan was your marker, if its good enough for that, its good enough for this. Trump was right about it being a bad lead. So, anyway, a cut in the future is not a cut. It has to come out of current or currently authorized spending. Cut something now and extend the debt ceiling a couple of months. Make further extensions part of the budget for fy 12.

91 Do these spending cuts make my butt look fat?

92 Damn. I chose "not Cherry pi" and still got the same comment. How about "xor cherry π?"

93

they need the money to fund the programs they use to buy votes. simply as that. Want ain't got nothing to do with it, it's about need.

Higher Taxes do not necessarily =higher revenue.

This is about Social justice as JEF has openly admitted.

94

I am the law!

95 In other words, once again we are expected to take seriously some imaginary numbers, offered by a dust-brained fool.

96 #87 Funny, the way I heard the story is the ticket prices are not being raised, but had already factored in the FAA taxes in the original fare. So, therefore, the airlines were simply pocketing what would have been paid to the FAA otherwise. I immediately thought good, my friends in the airline industry might get a raise with this extra revenue.

97 73
Unless and until a major government agency like the Dept. of Education or Dept. of Energy is actually abolished and its' former employees are wandering the streets of D.C. with bewildered stares I will not believe the GOP is earnestly interested in cutting government.

Posted by: Dave at July 25, 2011 02:11 PM (Xm1aB)

You are correct, but may I suggest that for the biggest bang for the buck,  close down the EPA first.

98 2. Liberals who are stinking rich are either indulging in pornographic guilt, or are safe and secure in the knowledge they can employ people who will help them avoid the onus of the new rates.* 

*Note that tax increases apply to income from actually having a job of those who are building their wealth, not the trust funds of progressive fucks whiling away their days at a social justice non-profit.
Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at July 25, 2011 02:13 PM

I said in a previous thread that the rich elite lefties or pet companies like GE don't give a rat's ass about tax hikes because they've got more dodges than an Alabama junkyard

99 I think the wonkiest of wonks stopped following this political dramarama over a week ago. I can only imagine what the average citizen think at this point.

100

What the hell is wrong with ALL CUTS?  No debt limit increase, no tax increase.

 

Why is this not our starting position?!

101 Crap I went and broke the afternoon open thread. Sorry guys.

102

I think that for now we should just get the best sham agreement we can and move on.  The world isn't going to end in the next two years.  What we need to do is calm everybody down for a while, and wait this out.  Unless the idiots in the Republican party really decide to remain a minority party, we should have success in the next cycle against Obie and his cronies. 

Then, once we have power, the work can begin.  Budget cuts aren't even the most critical component to success, and can actually be a harmful distraction.  It's making the US business friendly again that must be job 1.  We need to do the common sense things that will improve employment prospects, especially at the bottom level.  Things can't be fixed with the Dems holding so much power.  In the end they can undermine whatever we accomlish.  Only once they're pushed aside can anything really be fixed. 

Throwing a fit and making the system crash before we take over doesn't do any good.  It just makes our job later on more difficult.

103 The unspoken truth is - It's not the debt ceiling, it's getting some idiot to buy our debt! At some point, they will say, "Cash me out this is crazy or 现金我这太疯狂了"

104

Will someone please un-ban Tami and '80sbaby? 

And Chuck Z

 

You forgot about me!

105

Drudge is vaguely pushing the idea that Obama is going to try to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling himself.

 

106

92, I agree that the Ryan budget didn't go far enough, but I think Ryan figured that too. He knew he had to keep it somewhat modest because he was about to touch one of the scared cows. If he had reformed medicare AND cut the fed. government by 40% AND went after SS..well, people would have simply laughed him off the stage. Dumbasses, yes, but they still would have done it anyways.

I always viewed the Ryan plan as a starter. Reform medicare, and then slowly but surely creep towards reforming the other welfare programs.

107 您所有的贝林格给我们！

108

60Can someone explain to me why the liberals want tax increases?

Liberals are focused on poverty and lack...therefore they create poverty and lack by confiscating from those that produce, regulating everything to death or simply outlawing anything that would create wealth in the first place.

Oh the nuclear power plants, the off-shore drilling, the oil-shale development, the fracking we could have been doing with that $4 Trillion put on the national credit cards the last couple of years. That'd require us to focus on prosperity, production.

 

109 86

Will someone please un-ban Tami and '80sbaby? 

And Chuck Z

Guys, hello!  *waves*.  Unban me, else you'll never find out how awesome Captain America is!

110 his is great, Obama calls FDR a fiscal conservative

All that schooling, and he's still a complete ignoramus.

111

Drudge is vaguely pushing the idea that Obama is going to try to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling himself.

 

Sadly, the Republicans would probably stand idly by. 

112 um ,is anyone else seeing a messed up comment box above the comment box?

113 Nice work by cherry pi. Fits in well with the "no matter which of our Democrat plans you choose, we're still going to do the same thing"

114 The unspoken truth is - It's not the debt ceiling, it's getting some idiot to buy our debt! At some point, they will say, "Cash me out this is crazy or ÏÖ½ðÎÒÕâÌ«·è¿ñÁË"

Posted by: The Robot Devil at July 25, 2011 02:17 PM (136wp)

 

Actually, I'd say it's really the inflation.  We don't need anybody to buy our debt when we can "loan" ourselves an unlimited amount, or (even better) just admit that we're expanding the money supply.  The only serious problem is the rate of inflation resulting from such a policy.  If we choose to spend without an adequate corresponding reserve drain to maintain the demand for dollars, then we have a problem. 

 

115

yup. It looks like someone broke the blog again.

What the hell has been going on here, why did everyone decide to start messing around with html?

116 @111 quit doing that shit. you break the blog

117

Funny, the way I heard the story is the ticket prices are not being raised, but had already factored in the FAA taxes in the original fare. So, therefore, the airlines were simply pocketing what would have been paid to the FAA otherwise.

I immediately thought good, my friends in the airline industry might get a raise with this extra revenue.

--------

What, a two week raise or however long the shut-down lasts? Highly doubting it.

118 Third, the $700 trillion worth of derivatives that ignited the recession are not covered by Dodd-Frank. Warren Buffett successfully lobbied for their exclusion, saying it would be tantamount to rewriting old contracts and would force healthy derivatives players such as his own Berkshire Hathaway to post collateral on old deals

Warren Buffett of course says RAISE MY TAXES. He never says REGULATE MY HEDGE FUNDS

I'm sure that the Orifice of Omaha has his tax returns jiggered to the point that he gets billions in refunds

119 I think that for now we should just get the best sham agreement we can and move on.

BS, time to shit or get off the pot. We will not last another two years with Barky-O-Bastard in charge violating the law at every turn.

120

Drudge is vaguely pushing the idea that Obama is going to try to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling himself.

Unfortunately, I can see the Republicans letting him get away with this.

121 You mean this Ben?

Obama: I'd like to 'bypass Congress and change the rules on my own'

122

98, what, a two week raise or however long this mini-furlough lasts? Highly doubting it.

123 Um, why do I have two comment boxes?

124 What happened now?

125 OK, who's the smartass messing with the HTML tags again

126 $1 Trillion plus $1.4 Trillion doesn't equal $2.7 Trillion?  I was told there would be no math!

127

Hey, the thread's got a new smaller box and the posted by drop down box has our choice of lube.

That is sooo appropriate.

I'm selecting KY.

128 Oh man, Ace is gonna be pissed.

129 Sorry for that double post. Some odd stuff going on there.

130 @111 Bravo, sir.

131 Ben you mean this?

Obama: I'd like to 'bypass Congress and change the rules on my own'.

And seriously, quit fucking with the blog, asswipes.

132 what the hell is going on? Joke? Hack?

133 Papa Editor, don't ever fucking put HTML in your sig line again. 

134 I didn't get a chance to select my preferred lube.

135 Someone needs to stop with the damn "hacking"

136

RE HTML nonsense:  Please stop.  It was awesome to experiment with it a few nights ago, but now it's distracting and annoying;  Ace must be having apoplectic fits over this.

This is why we can't have nice things...

 

137 Monty is right - debt ceiling negotiations are a dog and pony show.

When has the debt-ceiling ever not been raised? Never. So in what sense is it any kind of "ceiling"? It's like one of those emergency safety shut-offs you find on some industrial machinery; when they are ignored or disconnected, they have no use as a safety device and thus serve no purpose at all.

138 Warren Buffett of course says RAISE MY TAXES. He never says REGULATE MY HEDGE FUNDS Let's do both. To Buffett alone, specifically.

139
>>One wonders how vegetable matter is able to call in to a radio program. Articulated leaves? Prehensile roots?
Posted by: George Orwell at July 25, 2011 02:10 PM (AZGON)

that couldn't have been a seminar caller, he sounded sincerely brain singed.

Rush showed a saint's patience to make a point of the dangerous loon's absurdity.

Speaking of absurdity, we have erg defecating on the last thread, and a concern troll chiming in at will, but 2 of the most astute moronettes are banned?

Ace, what are you trying to do, force Miss'80s to start a smart political blog?

Free Tami and M'80s ASAP

140 BS, time to shit or get off the pot. We will not last another two years with Barky-O-Bastard in charge violating the law at every turn.

Posted by: Vic at July 25, 2011 02:22 PM (M9Ie6)

 

Well, then, it's over - cuz ain't nothing gonna happen for the next two years.  Controlling the House and 1/2 of the SCOTUS isn't enough.  Obie's shocking lawlessness offends me as much as anyone, but the "legal remedies" will not be used.  That is assured, 100%.  So, we wait.  And hopefully there will be enough left to salvage when our time comes.

141 Rush:  More people are asking themselves, "Once you go Barack, can you ever go back?"

142 This is really no plan. It only looks like a victory. It's an illusion. The 1 trillion dollar anticipated saving from withdrawing from Iraq/ Afganistan is a joke. It's mostly all just math tricks. I am so sick of this shit. how stupid do they think we are? Yeah, yeah that was rhetorical

143 Yeah stop with the HTML. Gotta go with the new school CSS. Don't want the liberal blogs to think we're still in the dark ages over here.

144 $1 Trillion plus $1.4 Trillion doesn't equal $2.7 Trillion?

There will be an additional $300 Billion in savings just cuz.

145 When has the debt-ceiling ever not been raised? Never. So in what sense is it any kind of "ceiling"? Yes. About as real of a ceiling as fiat money is real. Although there have been a couple of occasions the ceiling was not raised, it always was raised afterwards.

146 This is why we can't have nice things.

147 We have nice things?

148 I've been trying to avoid all of this but I'm hoping there are enough conservatives in the House to stop a debt-ceiling increase. If we give it, they'll spend it. Take away the sugar now.

149 146, No it isn't over. It's called not raising the ceiling at all. Something well within the Republican's control. You're operating under the false narrative that that simply isn't an option. It is and it's better than most of these plans we've seen.

150 Whoever is messing with this site is a real asshole.

151 @123 I note that Warren is strangely absent from the effort to impose taxes on financial transactions.

152 117 um ,is anyone else seeing a messed up comment box above the comment box?

Posted by: Ben at July 25, 2011 02:21 PM (wuv1c)

I was. I don't see it any more, though.

153

Ha! Ha! Ha!  Color me unsurprised.  From WaPo:

As President Obama and Congress struggle to tame the nationÂ’s runaway borrowing, a stream of checks, cash and even gold coins is pouring into a post office box in West Virginia where, for years, people who want to help pay down the national debt have been able to send gifts.

But the contributions donÂ’t specifically go to pay off existing debt. The government deposits them in the Treasury DepartmentÂ’s general fund, in essence the governmentÂ’s main checking account.

“The gifts go toward funding the federal government, not to pay off the debt,” said Mckayla Braden, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of the Public Debt.

Since the contributions can reduce the amount of money the government would otherwise have to borrow to cover its expenses, federal officials stress they are complying with the 50-year-old law enabling the public to give gifts to lower the debt. “The government doesn’t have to borrow more,” Braden said.

In soliciting donations on its Web site, the bureau says simply: “How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?” It provides two options: online payment and the address of the PO box.

Some contributors feel misled.

....

About 30 to 50 gifts come into the post office box each month, said Kimberley Krupinski, supervisor of accounts receivable at the Parkersburg office. The average gift is under $500. The donations are often accompanied by letters, such as one from a war veteran expressing gratitude for a successful surgery or another from an immigrant expressing thanks to his adopted country, Krupinski said.

“A lot of them are doing it out of patriotism and their love for America,” she added.

In return, donors get a thank-you letter from the bureau, saying, “Your contribution will help ensure that we do not burden future generations with a huge debt.” No specifics are offered about how the money is used.

 

 

154

111

I wuz hack#d

155

as for the moving on thing.

1. We may not have the time. We are likely facing a downgrade because of the decades if procrastination and intransigance.

2. Even if the weasels are given free reign for now, AND if the Republicans gain control, in 2012, they are

a. not likely to gain a filibuster proof majority in the Senate

b. subject to the same beltway squishiness that aflicts them today.

c. then ALL of the hard decisions will be borne by the Republicans alone.

This sets up losses in the midterms in 2014.

156 Ryan's plan, like Reid's plan, spends less than the bazillion-jillion dollars that Congress might have spent, which means that this is a bazillion-jillion dollar cut. And that's not enough for you rightwing extremists?

157 Oh goody. Reid and Schumer about to hold a presser on the debt crisis, per CNBC.

158

153 We have nice things?

"Nice" is a  relative term, but being able to read and comment freely on the this site should constitute a "nice thing" to all.

Oh, and here's the next thing Obami wants to mess up:

Obama: 'I need a dance partner' on immigration reform

159  Â“The fact that we are here today to debate raising AmericaÂ’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our GovernmentÂ’s reckless fiscal policies. Increasing AmericaÂ’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

160 They tried to make me take a budget cut I said no, no, no.

161 #165 Rdbrewer is really pissed.

162 Reid and Schumer about to hold a presser on the debt crisis, per CNBC.

I didn't even know that Chuckie was involved.

163 With regards to the downgrade, debt ceiling increase or no debt ceiling increase, they put $4 Trillion on the credit cards in 2+ years. We deserve a downgrade with that level of spending.

164 Random thought:  David Brooks maybe beginning to realize that an empty suit with well creased pants is still just an empty suit.

165 Whoever is messing with this site is a real asshole.

If ever there was a ban-able offense.

166 At some point, won't China and everyone else simply refuse to keep buying our damn debt?  Once we get cut to junk bond status and the interest raises so high on the debt that it wipes out the "revenues" even at 100% taxation, does money even mean anything at that point?   That's a "ceiling" even Obama can't unilaterally violate.

167 @159 I don't think cut-n-pasting an entire article, while also omitting a link, falls within the sort of fair use guidelines emplyed by blogs that do not wish to find themselves on the wrong end of a copyright lawsuit.

168

Sadly, the Republicans would probably stand idly by. 

Posted by: runningrn at July 25, 2011 02:21 PM (ihSHD)

 

Not this time.  They know we're watching them very closely now.  They may try some underhanded things, but the way communications is set up now, they won't get away with it.  Repubs are slow learners, but they are learning. 

169 CNBC has a camera on an empty podium waiting on Reid, and I can see a poster titled "Why We Can't Do A Short Term:" but can't read the text under it.

170 173 Random thought:  David Brooks maybe beginning to realize that an empty suit with well creased pants is still just an empty suit.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 25, 2011 02:34 PM (Hx5uv)

Welcome to the party,pal!

171

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better

 

Yup, 2006.  Back when that lying asshat voted "no" on raising the debt ceiling (as did a bunch of other Demotards).  If the MFM would do their job, this flip-flop would be a big story! 

172

 At some point, won't China and everyone else simply refuse to keep buying our damn debt?  Once we get cut to junk bond status and the interest raises so high on the debt that it wipes out the "revenues" even at 100% taxation, does money even mean anything at that point?   That's a "ceiling" even Obama can't unilaterally violate.

probably not. China isn't just buying our debt because it is slighly safer than other nations debt, it is buying our debt(or lending us money) so that we can buy more garbage from China.

China needs to grow at 8% quarterly to prevent some sort of domestic revolt, and it only grows at that percentage if the US and Europe are buying their products.

173 Oh how I long for a true balanced budget amendment. I feel like that would solve everything.

174 China is buying leverage with the West's debt so that when their own bubble pops they aren't so screwed.

175 So, two ambulatory penises will be telling us lies on CNBC.  don't see that every day.

176 178 CNBC has a camera on an empty podium waiting on Reid, and I can see a poster titled "Why We Can't Do A Short Term:" but can't read the text under it. Posted by: Retread at July 25, 2011 02:36 PM (G+7cD) Which means Barky called Harry up to the WH and ripped him a new one. So we might be back to square one.

177 Free Tami, '80sbaby and Chuck Z!

178 No it isn't over. It's called not raising the ceiling at all. Something well within the Republican's control. You're operating under the false narrative that that simply isn't an option. It is and it's better than most of these plans we've seen.

Posted by: Harry at July 25, 2011 02:30 PM (wnGI4)

 

Gotcha.  So, how are you gonna get any kind of deal made?  Shall we really decide to go into default?  Treasuries are the basic bed rock of a tremendous part of the investment world.  If those become unreliable, the System as a whole is in jeopardy.  Inflation, the natural result of overspending, is far preferable to melting down the system.  Two more years of ugly deficits are not good things, but we can endure it.  Breaking the whole system - I'm not sure we can endure that.  Nobody wins by hitting the reset button.

What horrible thing is going to happen because we have a little more debt for two years?  In the end, damn little other than some inflation.  Given that it's near zero right now (food and energy are up due to supply/demand issues, not currency issues) we can live with it short term.  The government's spending is not 'crowding out' anything right now.  Rates on treasuries are still very low, and there is zero pressure on the availability of capital to loan out.  There is still very high unemployment, so obviously the state is not sucking up the labor supply.  Its consumption of physical goods is not depriving the rest of us. 

Let's not create chaos when a little patience will bear fruit in due time.

179   That's a "ceiling" even Obama can't unilaterally violate.

Posted by: Rod Rescueman at July 25, 2011 02:34 PM (HwE/1)

Economics are RAAAAACIST!

180 162 It's time to call the bluff.  Enough is Enough.

House passes it's last offer.  Speaker recesses the House for the summer.

Take or leave it cocksuckers,  suckers of cock (official AoSHQ term).

Your going to like the taste of my ass Barry.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at July 25, 2011 02:32 PM (hXJOG)

Wait, isn't that like giving them a blank check and not being around to call the authorities when they use it?   since all fiscal bills have to originate in the house, reid will say well, this is there last and final offer so let's fix this and it won't resemble anything they anticipated.  Isn't this what went on with obamacare?   they have to dump obamacare in order to even have a starting point where they can be successful but, for some reason, they all are unwilling to do this.

181 So, two ambulatory penises will be telling us lies on CNBC.

Hey, a talking penis!

182

As Drew noted below, Obama decided to hold our nation's credit rating hostage over the sticking point of making sure he doesn't have to beg for another increase in the debt limit before the elections.

Barky is holding America's credit rating hostage not because any election issues, but just because he wants to ... and because it'll do serious damage to our nation.

183

Not this time.  They know we're watching them very closely now.  They may try some underhanded things, but the way communications is set up now, they won't get away with it.  Repubs are slow learners, but they are learning. 

 

Crap, I think I might have missed my ride!

184 Hey, noobs, stop embedding HTML in your sock. Sheesh.

185 185 So, two ambulatory penises will be telling us lies on CNBC. don't see that every day. Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at July 25, 2011 02:37 PM (agD4m) Happens every day on MSNBC.

186 People actually watch MSNBC?

187 Here we go.

188 The sleight of hand being played with money donated specifically to pay down the debt is stunning. If there was ever a reason why raising taxes is a bad idea, this is it. If you give these people money, they will spend it. And the rationale is laughable. "if we lie and spend this, then we don't have to borrow. Noooooo, you are presuming that you HAVE to spend. Hijacking debt reduction money to pay off general expenses and claiming that you're somehow reducing the debt (at best you're avoiding increasing it) is no better than going broke buying something on sale.

189

 So, two ambulatory penises will be telling us lies on CNBC.

Two penises walk into a bar.  The bartender says...

190 Why push for a balanced budget amendment? We don't follow the laws we have the require a budget. Or congressional authorization for war afetr 90 days.

191 188, Ah, so you've bought the BS that we are actually going to default. Well, then you're on your own.

192
Q: What Did One Nut Say To Another Nut?
A: Why Are We Hanging Around Here When It Was the Dick That Did All The Shooting?

193 Andrea Mitchell floated the idea of getting rid of the debt ceiling. Scrunt.

194 Guess this is not the time to turn all the text red?

195 Reid attacking Repubs for not reducing defense spending.

S&P and DOW dropping as he talks.

196 199 Here we go. Posted by: Retread at July 25, 2011 02:39 PM (G+7cD) Transcript of their remarks: SEN. REID: Good afternoon. Today, I -- SEN. SCHUMER: Look at me, bitches! Look at MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!11111

197 202 Why push for a balanced budget amendment? We don't follow the laws we have the require a budget. Or congressional authorization for war afetr 90 days.   Good point.  I'm torn on a BBA because while it sounds good in theory, I'm afraid it'll be used by future Congresses to jack up taxes tremendously because they are "required" to have a balanced budget by law. 

198 WTF is it with the Dims insisting on raising taxes now as opposed to when they controlled both houses? Oh yes, try to get the GOP to go along and get the average citizen to believe both parties do the same things with plenty of PR help from the MFM. Well IMO screw em, let them default if it comes to that. The nation will implode anyway if we don't stop this runaway spending very soon.

199 What horrible thing is going to happen because we have a little more debt for two years?

How many trillions of dollars do you consider "a little more debt"?

200 Isn't Schumer the goomer who tanked the Housing markets and created the big scare that caused McStupid to pees his depends, suspend his campaign and bend over for the Won?

This isn't good! I wonder what those two Huckleberrys have up their sleeves?

201 @195 - My Bad!

202 "I always viewed the Ryan plan as a starter. Reform medicare, and then slowly but surely creep towards reforming the other welfare programs." You have to move the Overton window, right? You always start the bargaining with the maximalist point of view. Putting Ryan's plan out there set the goalpost (edge of the window). Other Republicans joined in the "it's extreme!" chorus putting Ryan's plan into the out of bounds. So not only end point, now an outlier. So now we are all content talking about $3T in cuts that don't exist, instead of $4T.

203 Radical Right Wing Tea Party!!!

Did you know they're running Congress? Harry just said so.

204 My wife and I were just interviewed on the Debt Ceiling, Politics, and Everything for NBC News while we were jogging.

It will appear, if they decide to include it, between 6:00PM and 7:00PM on Los Angeles NBC Channel 4 News.

We gave them Hell for approximately 10 minutes. Let's see how much they include and how crazy they make us sound. We kept it clean, calm, and rational.

The MFM wants mouth-foaming conservatives, so we gave them none of that.

We hit the shitulus, CommieCare, Priuseses, communism, Keynesianismism, and Moonbeam.

FYI:
I'm the goofball with the American Flag /Minuteman tattoo on his shoulder.

205 205 Andrea Mitchell floated the idea of getting rid of the debt ceiling.

Mrs.  Alan Greenspan?  *cough*

206 But seriously... time to go back to work :/

207 And Alan is competing with Bob Dole to prop up Viagara sales. So watch it, old man.

208 Who you callin a noob? I've always been this stupid.

209 Where's my meltdown?  I was specifically promised all weekend that I would have a meltdown today.  I even cancelled a pedicure to make time for it, and it didn't happen.

210 Posted by: sifty at July 25, 2011 02:43 PM (ECjvn)

Were you wearing your official AoSHQ athletic thong?

211

Good point.  I'm torn on a BBA because while it sounds good in theory, I'm afraid it'll be used by future Congresses to jack up taxes tremendously because they are "required" to have a balanced budget by law. 

--------

Maybe I missed the change, but the BBA that Mike Lee and Jim DeMint were discussing made it so it took a super majority in congress to raise taxes. It also isn't a balanced budget ammendment in the sense that you have to spend less money than you bring in. It simply capped federal spending at 18% of GDP. So you can still deficit spend depending on revenue. Unless I missed something or it's been changed? Feel free to correct me.

 

212 #209 the CCB calls for the balanced budget amendment to not only have a set limit on the debt in proportion to the GDP but a limit on taxation relative to GDP as well. The only way the government could spend more money each year is if the size of the economy increases through natural growth.

213 What did they do to get banned? We need to keep a list.

Nothing, it was accidental according to Kratos.

214 Watching the press conference:  Back to square 1.

215 222 Who you callin a noob? I've always been this stupid.

Posted by: cherry π at July 25, 2011 02:44 PM (OhYCU)

y0|_| 4r3 4 n00b b3c|_|453 y0|_| d0n'7 |-|4v3 7|-|3 53n53 0|= 4 C c0mpi13r

216

FYI:
I'm the goofball with the American Flag /Minuteman tattoo on his shoulder.

 

sifty, that's freaking awesome!  I hope they play it!  (And don't selectively edit).

 

I didn't know you were a runner.

217 Ah, so you've bought the BS that we are actually going to default. Well, then you're on your own.

Posted by: Harry at July 25, 2011 02:40 PM (wnGI4)

 

It's the option our enemy seems to be considering.  They may be crazy enough to do it. I understand that we don't HAVE to do it, but we may choose to.  And the main means I've seen proposed for continuing to pay interest have the potential to cause other problems that will come back around to bite us if we get the blame.

I don't think there's enough to gain considering the political risk.

218 228 Watching the press conference: Back to square 1. Posted by: Soona at July 25, 2011 02:46 PM (Bbn7l) Yup. Barky has no intention of compromising. He needs a state of crisis in which to appear presidential and boost his polls.

219

Deceptive Democrat terms:

"savings" - LOL

"revenue" LOL

220 Little Chuckie Schumer is trying Barky's scare tactics. Oh noes!! We must raise the debt ceiling or we're all gonna die!!

221

You have to move the Overton window, right? You always start the bargaining with the maximalist point of view. Putting Ryan's plan out there set the goalpost (edge of the window). Other Republicans joined in the "it's extreme!" chorus putting Ryan's plan into the out of bounds.

So not only end point, now an outlier. So now we are all content talking about $3T in cuts that don't exist, instead of $4T.

--------

I'm not sure Ryan thought it would be considered extreme. I know when I first heard of the plan I certainly didn't. Had he known it would be received by his own freaking party the way it was, he probably would have just swung for the fences. Wasn't counting on the Rs becoming so cowardly so quickly after winning an election. At least I wasn't (yes, I'm projecting my own feelings on to Ryan).

222 _{Were you wearing your official AoSHQ athletic thong?}

I was wearing my Ace of Spades banana-hammock thong. Yup.

And my Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles hat.

Nothing but the classiest jogging apparel for this moron.

I am so proud of my wife. She was a tiger.

Hope she doesn't get fired for this.

223 Posted by: curious at July 25, 2011 02:38 PM (k1rwm)

No.  Because if they change it, the House has to pass any changes.  If they don't, or if they re-amend, it has to go to conference.

BOHICAre worked because one house (HoR, I think) just passed the other house's version without amendments (or even debate, I think).

224 Our work here is nearing completion! 

225 The Republicans should be screaming that we only need 4 Dem Senators to pass CC&B or a version there of. Its already passed the house once, it can pass again.

226 194
Free Rachel Corrie!
Posted by: Palestinean Defense League at July 25, 2011 02:38 PM

NO FLAT TAX !!!!

227 We kept it clean, calm, and rational.

That is hardly AoSHQ-Lifestyle Approved.

228 Well that should be enough to turn McStupid and Grahamnasty around to the dark side now if they can get Snowe Collins and Brown the RINO herd will bone us again.

Shut er down you fools.
Let er burn, the Rats own this hot potato.

229

It's the option our enemy seems to be considering.  They may be crazy enough to do it. I understand that we don't HAVE to do it, but we may choose to.  And the main means I've seen proposed for continuing to pay interest have the potential to cause other problems that will come back around to bite us if we get the blame.

I don't think there's enough to gain considering the political risk.

---------

The 14th ammendment all but compels them to pay off the debt first and foremost. Now, I guess there is a chance that Obama could not only purposefully default, but also break the law at the same time. However, I'm saying we can win that war in the media if he so chooses.

230 Where are the free AoS thongs?  Are they made of fat-free hobo gut?

231

My wife and I were just interviewed on the Debt Ceiling, Politics, and Everything for NBC News while we were jogging.

Posted by: sifty at July 25, 2011 02:43 PM (ECjvn)

You will be left on the cutting room floor.  Conservatives need to be wild eyed, knuckle dragging, NASCAR loving, foaming at the mouth neanderthals to see TV time.  Kind of like the "Jay Walkers" on the tonight show have to have IQ's of less than 80.

232 Here we go: Impeachment in the air

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) said Monday that President Barack Obama “would be impeached” if the nation falls into default.

233 Correction to my last post: compels them to pay the interest on the debt.

234 Whatever happened to the AoSHQ Weekend Lifestyle edition we floated around a while back? 

Fashion (wifebeater t-shirts, thongs)

Recipes (100 ways to tenderize a hobo)

235 I am able to be interviewed when I am waving a gun in public and holding birth certificate signs.

236 But seriously... time to go back to work :/

Good thing too.

237

How many trillions of dollars do you consider "a little more debt"?

Posted by: Methos at July 25, 2011 02:42 PM (sOXQX)

 

Debt is notional, and affects us only to the extent that it devalues the dollar by necessitating expansion of the money supply.  Therefore, whatever level of deficit spending gets inflation up over, say, 5%, is what I'd consider too much.  That's an arbitrary preference on my part - others will be willing to tolerate more or less.  Right now the only significant price increases I'm seeing are in energy and food.  Neither is the result of US monetary policy, but rather result from supply and demand changes, so it is not accurate to call those increases "inflation." 

238 sifty,

If you sounded at all reasonable and hit all those points, you will probably never be on the air.  In fact, if the cameraman didn't immediately delete your footage, the editor will almost certainly embargo it.

You need to catch these fools when they're dumb enough to be broadcasting live.  Then their only choice is to abruptly cut away from you, the obviousness of which plenty of people will catch.

239 We kept it clean, calm, and rational.

_{That is hardly AoSHQ-Lifestyle Approved.}

I almost lost it a couple times.

Not using the word cocksucker in describing Obama almost made the vein in my forehead pop.

240 What horrible thing is going to happen because we have a little more debt for two years?

How many trillions of dollars do you consider "a little more debt"?

Posted by: Methos

 

We'll tell you. Or at least we're trying to tell you.

241 However, I'm saying we can win that war in the media if he so chooses.

Posted by: Rich at July 25, 2011 02:50 PM (wnGI4)

 

I hope you're right.  Our side pretty well sucks at media wars.

 

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) said Monday that President Barack Obama “would be impeached” if the nation falls into default.
Posted by: Methos at July 25, 2011 02:53 PM (sOXQX)

 

LOL.  Never gonna happen.  I think Ace calls that "wishcasting."

242 Posted by: Methos at July 25, 2011 02:53 PM (sOXQX)d

That would be awesome.  Now, I don't think it would work (it would die in the Senate), but I'd love to see the hoops through which the Democrats jumped to save el JEFfe from that fate- since the 14th Amendment really does pretty well say that the debt of the US has to be paid before anything else.

243 Can the GOP stop using the word impeach please?  Is this too much to ask?

244

The agreement is to cut future spending... Neither side is actually interested in reducing goverment spending to anything like pre-2007 levels.

 Dig a little deeper, Ace.

 Even if we cut future spending to 2007 levels, we're still screwed.

 If, and I say "IF" as if it the following were a pipe dream, IF the fools in D.C. cut the budget to levels under an 'originalist' interpretation of The Constitution, life, as you know it, is finished, anyway. About 90% of the things government now does, wouldn't be done. The things conservatives hate would go away, like the NEA and government employee unions...but things like the DoD would also be cut by over 90% during peacetime....with no more, or damn few, military bases located in other nations.

 These days, Republicans and Democrats are arguing over which type of national socialism we embrace, not over who has the best policies regarding freedom and liberty and free market economics.

 Today, what you're really voting for, people, is which politician gets the chance to increase his personal net worth by up to 700% during his tenure in office. (Yeah, look it up.)

 

245

Bwhahaha!

From The Hill:

The Obama administrationÂ’s push to mend its relationship with business has gone cold only six months into the effort.

Complaints abound about the regulations pouring out of federal agencies to implement the federal healthcare and financial regulation laws.

ThereÂ’s also fear that labor-friendly policies emerging from the National Labor Relations Board and tax-reform legislation expected in 2012 will further hold back growth.

“With the Obama administration, it just seems to be relentless,” said David Rhoa, owner of a bulk-mailing facility based in Kalamazoo, Mich. “I’ve become accustomed to the fact that this pummeling keeps coming.”

...In January, however, [Obama]issued an executive order requiring federal agencies to review their regulations, looking for rules that are inefficient or outdated. His aim, he explained on The Wall Street Journal‘s op-ed page, was to “root out regulations that conflict, that are not worth the cost, or that are just plain dumb.”

But thereÂ’s a catch: All those new regulations Obama put in place will not be subject to review. Just days after the president issued his order, an anonymous administration official conceded to the Journal that “new regulations will not be priorities for the look back.” Meanwhile, more than a dozen federal bureaucracies—including the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Federal Communications Commission, and the National Labor Relations Board—are exempt from the review because they are independent agencies.

 

 

246 Can the GOP stop using the word impeach please?

Yep.  Do, or do not.

247 Hell no, the Rs should be talking frankly about the law. If Obama fails to pay the interest when he has the necessary funds to do so, he should be impeached in the House and tried in the Senate. It certainly would be an offense worthy of such action. Far worse than anything Slick Willy did.

248 Reactionary, do you think it's ever necessary to pay down the debt? And not like balance the budget, but actually get the debt back down to 0?

249 That would be awesome.  Now, I don't think it would work (it would die in the Senate), but I'd love to see the hoops through which the Democrats jumped to save el JEFfe from that fate- since the 14th Amendment really does pretty well say that the debt of the US has to be paid before anything else.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 25, 2011 02:55 PM (8y9MW)

 

Well, there goes our 401K's.  Maybe our Roth accounts too.

250 <sub>If you sounded at all reasonable and hit all those points, you will probably never be on the air.  In fact, if the cameraman didn't immediately delete your footage, the editor will almost certainly embargo it.

You need to catch these fools when they're dumb enough to be broadcasting live.  Then their only choice is to abruptly cut away from you, the obviousness of which plenty of people will catch.</sub>


I have a funny feeling they may just air some of it. For no other reason than to get my wife in trouble.
Also, I'm pretty ugly and red-necky looking and I have an American flag tattoo. They like to put ugly conservatives on the TV in montages with pretty hipsters.

251 Now, I don't think it would work (it would die in the Senate)

Yeah I totally have Obama's back.

252 This new deal is DOA.


Next.

253

Also, I'm pretty ugly and red-necky looking and I have an American flag tattoo. They like to put ugly conservatives on the TV in montages with pretty hipsters.

 

Sifty, I wonder if someone else's head will end up on your body...

254 _{Sifty, I wonder if someone else's head will end up on your body...}

Chris Evans is in town.

And I'm not really a runner. I managed 289 miles last year and about 40 so far this year. I'm more of a guy who jogs his wheezing ass a couple of miles a few times a week so I don't die from all the barbecue I eat.

255 Yeah, I have Obama's backside too!

Posted by: Olympia Snowe, The Won's Admirer at July 25, 2011 03:01 PM (Lt/Za)

 

What am I, chopped liver? 

256

Slightly o/t, but The UAW is negotiating new contracts with the Big 3 in Detroit. 

"Ford now says its costs for an hour of UAW labor total $58.  GM's cost is about the same, and Chrysler's is $49.  That compares to about $27 an hour at Volkswagen AG's new plant in Chattanooga, TN, and Hyundai Motor Co.'s plant in Montgomery, AL.

257

And I'm not really a runner. I managed 289 miles last year and about 40 so far this year. I'm more of a guy who jogs his wheezing ass a couple of miles a few times a week so I don't die from all the barbecue I eat.

 

Will run for BBQ!

258 Sifty, I left you a note in the open thread.

259

That investor letter by Dan Loeb mentioned in the sidebar is Teh Awesome.  Lots of unintentional hilarity in the comments too. 

Plus, IT"S RAINING in southeast PA!!  Hallelujah!

260 Posted by: runningrn at July 25, 2011 02:56 PM (ihSHD)
The primary purpose of almost all regulation is to ensure that your business cronies have (and keep) an advantage over any upstart newcomers that might compete vigorously, and worse yet, contribute to the "wrong" political party.
The secondary purpose of almost all regulation is to ensure that your ability to live as you see fit is highly, if not totally, constrained by the ideology of the day (AGW, salt content, obesity, smoking, hiring practices, religious services, etc.).
A related political activity is that almost all road improvements are designed to increase the access of developers to previously pristine areas and ensure that small family farms are unable to compete/survive.

261

Reactionary, do you think it's ever necessary to pay down the debt? And not like balance the budget, but actually get the debt back down to 0?

Posted by: Methos at July 25, 2011 02:57 PM (sOXQX)

 

Necessary - no.  But good to do, depending on how it's done. 

A fiat system like ours only works with a deficit.  A "perfect" annual deficit covers three things - it replaces destroyed money, allows for savings without a deflationary spiral, and can facilitate growth by preventing deflation in the face of rising productivity.  Deflation sounds nice if you're retired and on a fixed income, but it sucks for everyone else.

Now, the deficit need not be "borrowed" because the government supplies all dollars, and can do so instantly at nearly zero cost via computers.  If we were honest, the government would just spend, and allow inflation to take place when that spending was excessive (and develop consistent and honest means of tracking money-caused price increases and the size and velocity of the money supply generally).  This would provide immediate, real feedback to judge the rightness of policy.  If taxes were not enough to keep the demand for dollars up, the penalty would be paid in inflation, which would hit everybody who uses the currency - not just the rich or those out of political favor.

262 I went to a Lady Gaga concert to get some fiscal advice, and all I got was a dance partner that grabbed my package and a promise to blow me.

263

Continued from 277...

Forgot to close.  Re the debt, I dislike it only because it pays interest.  I see no point to that kind of reserve drain.  It pulls in dollars that would otherwise be invested in business (or stuffed in a mattress).  I don't think that's good.  If that could be reduced to zero over time by simply not borrowing any more, and allowing it to be retired naturally, I'd like that.

 

 

264 >>>Dig a little deeper, Ace. Fuck off, Bonesteel. Guys like you don't seem to understand the difference between "news" and "cant." Yes, I could repeat the same goddamned cant every day, as you apparently wish me to do. I could keep saying the same things every single day. Guys like you need that repetitive reinforcement. I have said, multiple times, that we need to roll back spending to 1998 levels. But I'm not going to say that every fucking day, retard, because my job here is not to regurgitate the same talking points every fucking hour. In between the recitation of cant, which you favor, I also have to cover what's going on the real world, which we call "news." It can't be the same manifesto every fucking day, moron.

265 This is why I can't listen to talk radio. A lot of the guys just seem to open every show with a basic restatement of what they said the day before, and the day before that. I listened to Mark Levin a couple of weeks ago and it was all freestanding political philosophy, of the sort I've heard a dozen times before. That sort of makes a little more sense on the radio, because the radio is more or less a fleeting medium -- few people listen to old broadcasts. But a blog is a written medium -- everything I've said before on this is still here, archived. I think guys like Bonesteel just want that repetition, day after day after day after day. This is a written medium. That means you can get that kind of thing just by googling old posts, rather than insisting, childishly, that every day I just regurgitate old posts.

266 _{Sifty, I left you a note in the open thread.}

I responded. Thanks.

I'm all joyous in my swimsuit area over speakin da troof to da powa.

267

Wow aren't you being a little rough here Ace?

 

Bonesteel makes excellent points.

 

We are dealing with two mafia factions here.  If anyone has evidence to the contrary I'd certainly like to see it.

268 Okay, just wanted to clarify where you were coming from. I would agree that a government that prints its own currency really only needs to balance its cash flow to keep inflation under control (and must 'run a deficit' just to get currency out into the economy). The problem is there aren't too many people that *know* that, and will instead respond to the numbers like debt and the portion of the federal budget eaten by interest payments and thus panic at some point. At that point, the transition from the fake "We don't just print money" Federal Reserve system back to "We print what we need and are held accountable for the effect" will be catastrophic-I don't think we have two years until that point. If we in fact have five or ten, then we can deal with the situation in a controlled fashion once the Dems are vanquished.

As to avoiding deflation, it seems to me the whole point of the free market is to try to drive prices down. So while I see that you want people to invest rather than put their savings under the mattress, it seems like we're giving up a lot of the basic good of the system.

269 since the 14th Amendment really does pretty well say that the debt of the US has to be paid before anything else.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 25, 2011 02:55 PM (8y9MW)

Yep.  There's no getting around the fact that the Constitution prioritizes debt service above all other expenses, save defense.  Not surprising that a Hahvahd edumacated Constitutionality Skolar wouldn't know jack about this and be constantly talking about the US defaulting.

Of course, conserevatives and our vichy right "allies" haven't helped to disabuse the Indonesian of this anti-American idiocy ...

270 Ace, if you're reading the comments, apparently miss80sbaby, tami, and some other folks got inadvertantly banned over the weekend (at least that's what Kratos tells us), so we could use another of those accidental banning appeals threads.

271 oh okay I will see about unbanning them.

272 I heard andycanuck is one of the banned, btw.

273 I just cant stop reading this.  Its so cool, so full of information that I just didnt know.  Im glad to see that people are actually writing about this issue in such a smart way, showing us all different sides to it.  Youre a great blogger.  Please keep it up.  I cant wait to read whats next.

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