1 This was all over twitter last night. Wonder why noone posted it here.

2
Tim Pawlenty, the great white hope?

I'll stick with Human Cain.

3 Epic Dud.

4 Posted by: MetaThought at May 22, 2011 11:58 AM (KEzkT)

Because ultimately nobody gives a shit. Daniels isn't strong enough to win.

5 Because that would mean a thread war about when Palin jumps in the race.

6 Human Cain. Posted by: Sunday Soothsayer at May 22, 2011 12:00 PM (Fe3ZO) Watch out, "Human" Cain may not have a strong grasp of foreign policy.

7 Right of return... right of return... right of return... you want me to talk about right of return... right of return.

8 Well, I'll take Pawlenty over Mitt, that's for darn sure. And he's some improvement over Barry. Wish he was more conservative, but there it is. Maybe some of his MN 'liberalities' will fall by the wayside in a national campaign?

9 George Will hardest hit. However, T-Paw and Obama are still on his list, so I suppose all it not lost for our conservative intellectual. I am a little curious about Daniels decision. I thought Barbour and Pence both declining was to make way for a Mitch run.

10 Getting closer and closer to Ann Coulter's prediction: the Republicans will nominate Romney and lose in 2012.

11
Obama, the jiver-in-chief, is trying to pull the EXACT same con on Israel as he did on Eastern Europe when he canceled the missile shield program.

Obama said he "understand the challenges Israel faces"* and  Israel's security is his admin's top priority.

Bull. Shit. This is exactly what he said about eastern europe right before he fucked them over in 2009.

*this is Obama's favorite phrase; he has repeated it a thousand times

12
Daniels doesn't want to go negative on Obama. He's a pussy.

13 I'm gluten-free and make a great substitute side dish for Republicans with wheat allergies.

14

"The era of small government is over . . . government has to be more proactive, more aggressive."

-- Tim Pawlenty, 2006.

15 I understand Herman Cain put his foot in his mouth on Chris Wallce's show, not understanding what the Pali "right of return" was. Oh well...

16 BTW, with Newt it was not dodging a bullet so much as finally pushing that glib, clingy used car salesman out of your face.

17 Sleeping Phred Thompson/Sleepy the Dwarf '12!

18 TPaw might be corny enough to win Iowa.

19 Palin is in the race. Even though Ace doesn't believe that she can gather the squishes (those dumb asses who pay so little attention to politics that they take the word of the LSM) and WIN. To tie this in with the previous thread about Israel, maybe after Palin is elected, she can go on a diplomatic mission to Israel and fly around in a small plane with her WOLF KILLING RIFLE and take out some of the Hammas scum. She's got more actual experience related to this than preznit barky will ever have. In a short skirt. Hey a guy can dream.

20 Embrace the Mittster!  Resistance is futile.

Unless someone comes out of left field, I think it's going to be Mitt (as I've been saying for months).  Not that I like that "choice".  But, while Pawlenty can communicate just fine, he looks like the kid that always got bullied in the school yard.

We're boned.. boned I say!

21 One RINO down.  Two to go.

22 15 I understand Herman Cain put his foot in his mouth on Chris Wallce's show, not understanding what the Pali "right of return" was.

Oh well...

That plus his cluelessness of the Afghanistan situation = retard loser.

23 Can't we win 2012? Yes, we can't! Sing it, fellas!

24

I'm guessing we will see a pretty attractive "wild card" type candidate jump in the race within the next 6 months. 

I have no idea who it will be but I doubt Cain/ Bachmann will be the only ones competing to capture the Tea Party spirit in these primaries. 

To me, after the news of the last few weeks, this is a golden opportunity for someone who wants to get in the mix, and shake things up.

TPaw is my guy at this point, other than Buddy Roemer of course.

25 Draft DeMint!

26 Wow. "Retard" is a bit harsh,no?

27 We know Daniels claims he is putting his family first. We do not know if he really is doing so.

28 Tim Pawlenty better start growing on me fast.

The more I look into him the more "off my short list" he becomes. Not only was he a crap and taxer but I found this morning that he favors government healthcare as well.

That is two major hits.

29 Ham Sandwich/Potato Salad 2012!

30 Is that Daniel's wife in the pic on Drudge? Christ, them's some big teeth. John Elway is jealous.

31 And Gary Johnson's path to the presidency becomes even more clear, as the only non-batshit insane candidate.

32 What was T. Paws walk back on Global Warming like? I heard he switched sides, but I don't know if he was ever a "true believer".  Anyway, it drives me nuts that we're never going to be able to end all the ethanol foolishness as long as Iowa is an early primary state. Wonder which way he'll go when he's talking to a bunch of corn farmers.

33 Not knowing right of return is a big swing and a miss for Cain. He'll be lucky to recover from that one.

34 Barky and Moochelle are off the Ireland this evening.  Fox showed a village where he'll be visiting.  They've named a pub "Obama" and are selling t-shirts and mugs with his mug on them.  Residents are beside themselves to see the useless jackass.

Then, off to lunch with the Queen again!  He'll probably give her an I-Pad this time, with his latest speeches (and fashion and diet tips by Moochelle).

Winning!

35 Outstanding, so now Chris Christie can jump in. (Kidding.)

36 The head of Fox News has just been quoted as saying that "Palin is stupid". Well, there ya go. She can't possibly win with that statement hanging around her neck. /s

37 I wonder if someone close to our friend in MA made a 7 figure donation to MitchPAC

38 I think Alan West has seen foreign policy up close and personal. I wish the hell he would run.

39 Ham Sandwich/Potato Salad 2012!

Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 12:11 PM (AZGON)

Fuckin' A right!

Got my vote!

40 Big loss.  He was my guy.  Results oriented, not empty promises.  The actual antithesis of Obama, which is what we need.  Noone will be able to out "greek column" Obama.  Christie you're our only hope.

41 Is that Daniel's wife in the pic on Drudge? Christ, them's some big teeth. John Elway is jealous. Posted by: LibertarianJim at May 22, 2011 12:13 PM (86FvD) And in a tight red dress. Don't they know the iconography for the cheating evil wife?

42 Just saw on Tepid Air that Palin may have bought a house in Scottsdale.

43 Outstanding, so now Chris Christie can jump in.

I have a good feeling about this....or maybe I'm just hungover.

44 I'm all in for Cain.

45 Getting closer and closer to Ann Coulter's prediction: the Republicans will nominate Romney and lose in 2012.

I think it is far too early to start calling out "winners". What I am seeing from the polls and interviews is that the average Republican really doesn't like any of the so-called leaders.

Remember in 2007 at this time frame in the primary race everyone saw Rudy as the lead candidate and the sure winner. In fact, Fox was pushing him hard up until he decided not to campaign at all.

46

Its a Palin endorsed Rick Perry or Mitt Romney.

Get used to it.

47 Mike Pence's reaction:

"Mitch Daniels is the best governor in America and his decision to forego a run for the presidency is a disappointment to me and millions of Americans who admire his integrity and leadership. While I respect his decision and his priorities, I am confident that Mitch Daniels' voice and example will continue to influence the public debate in our state and our nation for many years to come."

48 I have liked everything I have heard from Allen West - any chance he may jump in the race?

49 >>>Even though Ace doesn't believe that she can gather the squishes (those dumb asses who pay so little attention to politics that they take the word of the LSM) and WIN. It's not just the squishes. It's strong partisans like me who find her erratic, unprepared, and underqualified. Two years ago we were arguing about whether she was qualified for the vice presidency and now, with only three or four months additional experience in the governorship, apparently she's ready for the Big Kirk Chair. How did that happen? I don't know. I think people are just willing it to happen.

50 I'm planning this awesome inauguration party in January 2013. Must outdo my first one, to impress the peasants. I think I'll spend half a billion. My kingdom enlargeth.

51 It's gonna be just like 2008.  Voting for the lesser of two evils and watching Barry get re-elected.  It's over.  Fucking GOP.

52 Outstanding, so now Chris Christie can jump in. (Kidding.) Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 12:13 PM (nj1bB) Bellyflop from on high.

53 52 It's gonna be just like 2008.  Voting for the lesser of two evils and watching Barry get re-elected.  It's over.  Fucking GOP.

Who ought to run?

54 I have a good feeling about this....or maybe I'm just hungover.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 22, 2011 12:15 PM (dWPyO)

Hair of the dog, my friend. Hair of the dog.

And is everyone off of Cain already? Or were there that many people on in the first place?

55 Poor Peter Robinson...

56 Since Barky's election, no one can ever bring up lack of experience again.

57

The Daniels/Huck news make it more likely someone attractive is going to get in the mix, not less. 

Keep the faith.

58 I have liked everything I have heard from Allen West - any chance he may jump in the race?

He was on F&F this morning and he reiterated that he had no interest in running for President.

59 "I think it is far too early to start calling out "winners". What I am seeing from the polls and interviews is that the average Republican really doesn't like any of the so-called leaders." Largely agree. It is just my gut feeling and the feeling is queasy.

60 Hmmmm... I wonder if Hugh Hewitt will tell us who this benefits.... jus' wonderin'....

61 "57 states"
"Corpesmen"
Biden

62 >>>>And in a tight red dress. >>>>Don't they know the iconography for the cheating evil wife? She looks like she's made of leather. And needs a few things lifted. He took THAT back?

63

Who ought to run?

 

I'd like to see Christie or Paul Ryan, but I know that's unrealistic.  I'd rather see Perry of the "possibles."  My point is that we may have to "settle" for an also-ran like Romney.  We shouldn't have to settle, but there doesn't seem to be any strong candidates left in the GOP anymore.

And, to be honest, I'm pissed that Obama is beatable and we may put up a lesser candidate that'll get creamed because he won't attack the man on his country-wrecking policies.

64 ''I have liked everything I have heard from Allen West - any chance he may jump in the race?''


The man is a true American patriot. Part of me just can't see him sitting it out if the voices are loud enough. I thought I read somewhere that he could be vulnerable because of redistricting. If that is the case, maybe a run isn't such a bad idea.

65 Unnamed Republican 2012!

66 Bob Dole would never bet against Bob Dole.

67 On the other hand, the condition I was in Friday night, I probably wouldn't have said no to Mrs. Daniels either.

68 Posted by: Barbarian at May 22, 2011 12:09 PM (EL+OC) Despite the gaffe, I still really like Herman Cain. He's got the smarts to bone up pretty quickly. And I have a strong feeling he would embrace the Israelis.

69 "...Tim Pawlenty better start growing on me fast..."

Yeah?  What's your choice if he doesn't?  Four more years?

70 And I have a strong feeling he would embrace the Israelis.

As closely as he embraces the Fed?

71 Obama's going to win bigger than Michael Dukakis did.  The Poughkeepsie Thrifty Nickel Poll confirms this.  Accept it, wingnuts my fellow concerned conservative Republicans.

72 On the Cain "right of return" gaffe keep in mind that that was a Chris Wallace interview. He may or may not have meant what was implied there. Chris Wallace is no friend of Republicans in general and no friend of any conservative.

besides that, that kind of gaffe can be walked back fairly easily unlike support for nationalizing healthcare and crap and tax.

73 Palin is in the race.
Posted by: Mephitis



Saw a report this morning that she may have bought a house in Arizona, either as a base in the lower 48 for a Presidential run, or to run for the Arizona Senate seat.

So, meebee...

74

2012 is going to be about O.  in '08 he got by being a blank slate and full of hope and change.  In '12 only the biggest cool-aid drinkers believe that.  Also the "let create history by voting an African-American as president" should be less of a factor. So the GOP needs to put up someone reasonable.

Romney is flawed but if the economy/jobs is the #1 topic in '12 he is at least playing to his supposed strength.  He needs to move right in the primaries and start talking about shrinking govt to get some traction with the tea party.  Otherwise he isn't going to do well.  The note above, that it will be the candidate that gets Palin/Tea party blessing, sounds right

75 And Gary Johnson's path to the presidency becomes even more clear, as the only non-batshit insane candidate.

Posted by: DMXRoid

And if anyone knows batshit insane, it's the guy who believes in organized anarchy.

76

Saw a report this morning that she may have bought a house in Arizona, either as a base in the lower 48 for a Presidential run, or to run for the Arizona Senate seat.

 

Palin running for McCain's seat eventually?  That would be teh awesome.

77 Experience at what? Compromising with Democrats? Bullshitting on budgets? Expanding government?

78 Chris Christie, in all his statuesque glory, saves us!!

79

Palin running for McCain's seat eventually

Kyl's.

Don't believe it in a million years though.

80 Okay, so, a bit less than 18 months to go. Just have to make sure that we don't let the MBM, the leftists and establishment RINO's pick our candidate. I'd be really happy with any permutation of Cain, West, Palin, Bachmann, Bolton, Perry, RAND Paul, DeMint and Zombie Reagan.

81 64 I'd like to see Christie or Paul Ryan, but I know that's unrealistic.  I'd rather see Perry of the "possibles."  My point is that we may have to "settle" for an also-ran like Romney.  We shouldn't have to settle, but there doesn't seem to be any strong candidates left in the GOP anymore.

And, to be honest, I'm pissed that Obama is beatable and we may put up a lesser candidate that'll get creamed because he won't attack the man on his country-wrecking policies.

Christie could and Ryan left the door open to the possibility, but I don't think either of them will. As for also-rans, agreed, we shouldn't have to settle. The problem is that there aren't an awful lot of Republican politicians who are ready to run right now. That's why I asked who ought to run/would be better. 

82 Palin should buy a house in Florida and run for  Goofy Nelson's seat

such a sight it would be,,,,,,,,,,,,,

83
@77


For the Kyl seat in 2012.

84 If she runs for the AZ seat (seems like an odd career choice, but if she can win, go for it) I'll bet the Dems try their hardest to get Gabby Giffords to oppose her. Vicious, gun-toting redneck going after the victim of a brutal crime. The press would love the hell out of that.

85 What was T. Paws walk back on Global Warming like? I heard he switched sides, but I don't know if he was ever a "true believer". Posted by: Lincolntf at May 22, 2011 12:13 PM Here is what I posted in the Overnight Thread: He's been walking back on the global warming thing for the last 2-3 years. In the debate, he openly admitted that his earlier support for cap and trade was a mistake. Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 22, 2011 02:15 AM Yep, he sure has been flip-flopping walking back after being 100% certain of it just a few years ago. ---------- Over the course of the last three years, Pawlenty has gone from an outspoken proponent of clean energy to a Glenn Beck pandering climate change denier: Dec. 2006: Pawlenty lays out an ambitious clean energy program for Minnesotans to reduce their use of fossil fuels 15 percent by 2015. Cutting greenhouse gases, Pawlenty said, would “be good for the environment, good for rural economies, good for national security and good for consumers.” He also calls for a regional cap and trade program. May 2007: Pawlenty signs the Next Generation Energy Act of 2007, requiring the state to reduce its emissions 15 percent by 2015 and 80 percent in 2050. At the signing ceremony, Pawlenty said Minnesota was “kicking-starting the future” by “tackling greenhouse gas emissions.” Oct. 2007: Pawlenty declares that the climate change issue is “one of the most important of our time.” He also brushes off “some flak” from right-wingers who doubt climate change science. Sept. 2008: During the election, Pawlenty backs away from his own cap and trade program, says such a system would “wreck the economy.” He then tells hate radio personality Glenn Beck (a climate change denier) that human activity only contributes “half a percent” to climate change. Nov. 2009: Pawlenty backs away from acknowledging that any human activity is the cause of climate change. ---------- Just what we want in a leader!!! Someone who falls for bullshit and pushes it adamantly, saying not to listen to anyone who opposes it and then... when it's politically inexpedient for him, decides to change his tune. Brilliant. T-Paw for President! Oy...

86 Glad to hear that Daniels is out. Sorry, if you don't feel up to debating Obama on foreign policy, you should not be allowed to graduate from kindergarten, much less go to White House. WTF is with Cain? After yesterday's thread, I decided to give him a second look and the jackass goes and sticks his foot in his mouth again. No fucking way on Romney. TPaw will get his beta male ass handed to him by the metrosexual Chicago Jesus. For fuck sake! We have the most clearly incompetent imbecile in history in the WH, who by all reason should be kicked out by anyone more useful than a pet rock and the only pieces of crap that we can find to run against him make a pet rock look like Reagan.

87 31 And Gary Johnson's path to the presidency becomes even more clear, as the only non-batshit insane candidate. Posted by: DMXRoid at May 22, 2011 12:13 PM (tjc9E) As much as I like Gary Johnson, that's hilarious.

88 Wow, for a moment this morning I thought the end times had come after all, because by the 4th panel I was convinced that Doonesbury was dumping on Obama!

89 84 @77 For the Kyl seat in 2012.

Conservative Rep. Jeff Fake is running for that seat.

90 90 84 @77 I missed an "l". That should obviously be Jeff FLAKE.

91

The problem is that there aren't an awful lot of Republican politicians who are ready to run right now.

 

Neither was Barry, but I see your point.  I wish someone winnable would step up.  I don't think anyone in this field can beat Barry.  I wish I felt differently.

92

Good news: Daniels is unelectable, so this saves us some trouble.

Bad news: The closer you look at T'Paw and The Mittster, the more they look like a warm glass of day-old milk.

The hope: Rick Perry jumps in and everybody gravitates to him quickly -- because otherwise Sarah will run, and that won't be good.

[Having dropped bomb, joncelli saunters offstage, whistling softly]

93 None of Shit for brain's myriad of gaffs did any permanent damage to him and he is as insubstantial as the gas in a lightbulb. I have no huge expectation that someone whose focus has probably been different than mine to be as knowledgeable as I on all of all of the things that I've been focused on.

94 I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

95 Despite the gaffe, I still really like Herman Cain. He's got the smarts to bone up pretty quickly. And I have a strong feeling he would embrace the Israelis.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 22, 2011 12:22 PM (UlUS4)

He already has.  He laid into Captain Training Pants over his treatment of Israel in his speech yesterday.

96 @90 That's good news. I've watched Flake for a long while and he's always been an impressive fellow.

97 I don't think anyone in this field can beat Barry.  I wish I felt differently.

I think anyone but another McCain can beat him.

98

We have the most clearly incompetent imbecile in history in the WH, who by all reason should be kicked out by anyone more useful than a pet rock and the only pieces of crap that we can find to run against him make a pet rock look like Reagan.

 

I could beat Obama!

99 Seriously, how much of a fucking pussy do you have to be to let your wife decide whether or not you can run for president? Mitch Daniels is fucking pussy-whipped. When she came begging back after leaving him, he didn't even have the balls to tell her to go fuck herself after she's had her pussy stretched out by who knows how many schlongs. My sincere hope is that Mitch Daniels doesn't injure his vagina next time he's at the gym.

100 BTW - link to that possible Palin to Az story:

http://bit.ly/mfkFsR
azcentral.com


We report, you decide.

101 The GOP should nominate a big popcorn machine. Everybody likes popcorn.

102

The hope: Rick Perry jumps in and everybody gravitates to him quickly -- because otherwise Sarah will run, and that won't be good.

 

 

I'm be onboard with Perry.

103 We need someone who won't take Obama's cr@p!  Daniels was not the woman for the job.

104 The sidebar just exploded. Full articles over therre now?

105
This was all over twitter last night. Wonder why noone posted it here.
Posted by: MetaThought at May 22, 2011 11:58 AM

Read the ONT or don't come!

106

I'm be onboard with Perry.

 

"I'd."  English FAIL.

107

The electoral map in 2012 is going to be much more favorable than in 08. I'm naturally a pessimist but I like our chances.

Getting to 270 basically means holding the McShame States, adding Florida, OH, NC, IN...and then winning one additional State like NH, Iowa, Nevada, Colorado or Wisconsin.

Pretty doable.

108 someguy @100 Yeah, I feel sad for Mitch that he isn't running. He couldn't break the spell to run for president, when things were going his way. Maybe we're better off without him running.

109
Getting closer and closer to Ann Coulter's prediction: the Republicans will nominate Romney and lose in 2012.
Posted by: George Orwell at May 22, 2011 12:03 PM

What are her predictions for beyond 2012 (I tremble to ask)?

110 I don't think there has to be more than the wife leaving/returning story.  Every prez and senator candidate (except his royal blowness) gets the full cavity check these days and putting your family thru that just isn't worth it to most.

Its a huge advantage to the libs/dems, but it is what it is with our modern pravda media.

111 @76 - While your lack of imagination, lack of intellectual curiosity, and inability to get past your high school definitions of political systems are saddening, they are not surprising.

112 You want to win?  I'm your guy!

113 @99 Pet Rock 2012! If I can't beat Obama, you can beat him with me!

114

Oh and winning Virginia.

Ostumble can never garner as many votes as he did in 08. 

115 So it appears that Sarah Palin is moving toward a run in 2012. I thought she might wait until 2016 because she has to know that the media assault on her and her family was nothing in the past compared to what it will be up against The Won. This, of course, assumes she can beat the Romney Machine, not at all a given.

Her chances at getting the nomination are not as good as before but she does have an enthusiastic support base and the Tea Party crowd loves her. She should not have too much trouble raising the funds even if getting the necessary votes will be a challenge.

Maybe she knows her chances are not high but this would be her first attempt on her own. Could be she wants the experience of a national campaign. If she loses, she goes right back to Fox and has material for a lot of shows. If she wins the nomination but loses against The Won, the same scenario applies but with even more material for shows. Plus she gains experience.

Ronald Reagan ran several times to capture the GOP nomination before he was finally successful. He had a lot of detractors in the media and in the GOP at the time. It took so long that his age finally became an issue in the campaign but Carter's incompetence eclipsed age as a factor.

The downside to Palin running?  We'll be buried under an avalanche of "RAAACIIIIST" charges.

116 Why are some calling him a 'vagina'? He's not running. Does it matter how he reached his decision? - it seems most everyone didn't want him to run anyway.

117 100 Seriously, how much of a fucking pussy do you have to be to let your wife decide whether or not you can run for president? Mitch Daniels is fucking pussy-whipped. When she came begging back after leaving him, he didn't even have the balls to tell her to go fuck herself after she's had her pussy stretched out by who knows how many schlongs. My sincere hope is that Mitch Daniels doesn't injure his vagina next time he's at the gym.

118 Before you get off my lawn let me tell you there was a time when a candidate did not have to enter the race 18 months before the friggin election.

119 Some impressive HotAir-like stupidity in this thread so far.  Palin "establishing a base in AZ to run for the Senate?"  Newsflash: she would lose that race hardcore -- she's less popular in AZ than herpes and AIDS combined, despite its GOP tilt...DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT VOTERS, MANY OF THEM CONSERVATIVE, DON'T LIKE YOUR GOD.

Jesus Christ.

Oh, also, that Tim Pawlenty "era of small government is over" quote is a malicious, manufactured fake.  I love how shit like this circulates so freely on the right.  Pretty soon it'll become another Known Fact like Mike Castle voting to impeach President Bush.

120 Has Netanyahu indicated whether he'll run? It'd be nice to have a US supporter in the White House. And the AT&T data plan for that teleprompter is killing us!!

121 Yup. The world is coming to an end and he'll has frozen over... Ron Paul is starting to look good to me in comparison to the rest of the confirmed/ potentials. At least he has a blimp.

122 Jobs. Health Care. and Abject Terror.

123 Getting closer and closer to Ann Coulter's prediction: the Republicans will nominate Romney and lose in 2012. In other words, the Mayans were right.

124 Also, I love how Chris Wallace is now an ENEMY and part of the DEVILISH REPUBLICAN-HATING crew because he asked a moron-simple question to Herman Cain that he miserably flunked.  I mean, how fucking ignorant do you have to be about *basic* Middle Eastern & Israeli issues not to know what the Right of Return is?  But it's not Herman Cain's fault for being woefully unprepared to be President!  No, it's Chris Wallace's for asking an eeeevil gotcha question.

Again, the intellectual dishonest of people who proffer these excuses, yet shriek about RINOs at every opportunity, is staggering.

125
What was T. Paws walk back on Global Warming like?

It was "Okay, I made a mistake, I admit it, I'll never go there again." And to me, that's NOT enough. I want to know: What the hell was your thought process? Crowds of conservatives pointing to the bogus science, and you still fell for those superstitious Warmenists? How in God's name? And what got you off it? Politics?

126 I don't think anyone in this field can beat Barry. I wish I felt differently. I think anyone but another McCain can beat him. Posted by: Vic at May 22, 2011 12:32 PM The problem is that the GOP is interested in pushing nothing but more McCain candidates. Obama is beatable, but only by someone who (1) is unapologetically conservative and can explain conservative solutions to our current financial crises and (2) has the balls to unapologetically and unsympathetically go after Obama on every single one of his failures, fuckups and downright dumbass failed policies. This candidate also has to understand that they will get the Palin treatment Xs 1000 from the MF-ing media, Hollywood, Democrats, Obama, etc etc etc and they have to be prepared to deal with that and (1) defend themselves and (2) hit back HARD. As Bill Whittle stated "We are in a political fight to the death with people who will stop at nothing". Only a candidate who understands this and knows how to fight will stand a chance to win.

127 Posted by: DMXRoid

Organize that anarchy, dumbfuck. Go for it!

128 >>>Why are some calling him a 'vagina'? He's not running. Does it matter how he reached his decision? - it seems most everyone didn't want him to run anyway.

Because we've reached the point where some TrueCons really just want an excuse, any reason, to hatehatehateHATEHATEHAAAAATE.

Mitch Daniels might run?  Fuck that pussywhipped cuckold faggot RINO! 

Mitch Daniels not running?  Fuck that that pussywhipped cuckold faggot RINO! 

Down with The Establishment, graaaaaargh!

129 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 12:41 PM (hIWe1) I see you are a coffee achiever.

130 FK it, Let em all run, Let's hear what they have to say. Let's compare their words to their past performance. Several of these candidates I don't like or trust, but WTF, we must start somewhere. I'm surprised we are not focusing more on getting a veto proof majority in the Senate. Primary the squishys, put some real conservatives in leadership positions and It really won't matter from a fiscal standpoint who the president is. I think that is just as big as the POTUS.

131 I've got it! Obama should kick Biden to the curb and recruit Romney for VP! Yay! It will be a government mandated healthcare paradise! The speechifying will be legendary! That ticket will make everyone happy, right?

132 128

Makes me wish we had a second coming of Milton Friedman who could just destroy his opponents with a smile when it came to talking up the free market vs. state control.

133
it drives me nuts that we're never going to be able to end all the ethanol foolishness as long as Iowa is an early primary state
Posted by: Lincolntf at May 22, 2011 12:13 PM

When and how are we going to dump our primary process and go for the one-day blowout? Fuck Iowa.

134 >>>It was "Okay, I made a mistake, I admit it, I'll never go there again." And to me, that's NOT enough. I want to know: What the hell was your thought process? Crowds of conservatives pointing to the bogus science, and you still fell for those superstitious Warmenists? How in God's name? And what got you off it? Politics?

Dude, you forget that:

1.) back in the day the idea of Global Warming was MUCH more popular and accepted, even across the aisle on many quarters of the Right, than it is now.  The terrain has shifted to your position, and you want to attack everyone who wasn't there in the first place?  What do you want, your cock personally sucked for being right?  Seems so.

2.) Pawlenty was running for/acting as governor of a very squishy state in Minnesota.  This was a way to placate middle of the road soccer mom types to keep them happy and hold a few votes at little cost.  It's called politics.  It didn't cost his state any money.  He's owned up to his mistake in as blunt and straightforward a way as possible.  What do you really want, his head in the stockade for a public stoning?

135

If a Republican candidate is to win, they are going to have to win moderate voters in Ohio, Indiana, Virginia, Florida, etc. Who can do that while still inspiring the conservative base?

 

136 Pay attention Damiano, Romney has made it clear (to people who understand the English language) that if elected he would immediately grant all States an Obamacare waiver, thus killing it. I know that violates the meme, but it's a fact. Try to digest it.

137 When and how are we going to dump our primary process and go for the one-day blowout? Fuck Iowa. Posted by: arhooley at May 22, 2011 12:44 PM (GBuFK) How about the order is chosen at random? Then you have to campaign more as a National candidate.

138 Bibi-Bolton '12? A 'stache-sabra coalition, baby.

139 Iowa and New Hampshire having such over sized weight in the primary process really does seem to lead to some pretty milquetoast candidates. 

140 I'll keep saying this so no one can get on me for inconsistency: It'll be Romney and Palin in a long, rough march to the end. The rest are just holding a place for "other than Romney" until Palin gets in. Which she will.

The second Palin jumps in, Pawlenty (the only other major dude left) is toast.

I don't know who will would Romney v. Palin. It seems like Rockefeller/Goldwater or Ford/Reagan to me. What do y'all think?

141 >>>If a Republican candidate is to win, they are going to have to win moderate voters in Ohio, Indiana, Virginia, Florida, etc. Who can do that while still inspiring the conservative base?

Sarah Palin.  She can *totally* convince moderate voters who hate her fucking guts.  She just needs to start campaigning and then suddenly she'll be able to refute all the lies told about her all these years. 

Just you wait and see!

142 I think the real question is, do any of these guys support community organized T-Ball?  Because if they do then they are definitely liberals posing as conservatives.

143 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 12:46 PM (hIWe1) Nice try.

144 143, You Betcha!

145 Oh, also, that Tim Pawlenty "era of small government is over" quote is a malicious, manufactured fake. I love how shit like this circulates so freely on the right. Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 12:39 PM Hmmm... GOVERNOR PAWLENTY HAS SUPPORTED ethanol, mass transit, publicly financed stadiums, minimum wage increases, importation of price-controlled Canadian drugs, a “health impact” cigarette fee/tax, and a smoking ban. When the DFL proposed universal health care, his response was to expand the state’s child health care program. His health care task force recommended an individual mandate on residents to buy health insurance. This is not the record of a small-government, free market conservative. A search of the Pawlenty record for guiding principles and core beliefs yields little beyond a desire to placate liberal critics and get re-elected. Last year, when vying for a spot on the McCain ticket, Pawlenty was a moderate. This year, preparing a Presidential run, Pawlenty turned right in both word and deed, as exhibited by his un-allotment action. Candidate Pawlenty sounds more conservative on the campaign trail than Gov. Pawlenty acts in office, something he has in common with our current President. ON THE OTHER HAND, with a DFL legislature in place, Pawlenty has been forced to play defense. His own description of his role as governor compares the job to that of a hockey goalie, and we shouldn’t be surprised or upset if the goalie doesn’t score; rather, we should consider all the shots the goalie has blocked. Given that Minnesota elected, and re-elected, Paul Wellstone, she isn’t ready to embrace free markets and free minds. The best we could have hoped for in a governor for the past eight years was one who mostly held the line on taxes, and Gov. Pawlenty delivered. THE CHAIRMAN, whose own career as a goalie was cut short by a near-fatal hangnail, has called a debate to settle the question: RESOLVED: Tim Pawlenty has Failed Conservatism.

146 Also, I love how Chris Wallace is now an ENEMY and part of the DEVILISH REPUBLICAN-HATING crew because he asked a moron-simple question to Herman Cain that he miserably flunked.

Chris Wallace has ALWAYS been a liberal Democrat and Republican hater. I quit watching his show a long time ago. The Pawlenty era of small government may be a fake quote but he sure as hell has supported big government a lot in the past.  In fact he is probably to the left of Romney. He supported both government healthcare and crap and tax. BOTH of those are deal breakers.

And I am sick to damn death of the big tent purity screamers. You guys are worse than any of the so-called "purists" you complain about and have just about reached Paul-tard status.

147 Duh - I meant "who would win" Romney v. Palin. I quit coffee this year, keeps coming back to haunt me.

148 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 12:48 PM (hIWe1) You do not know what you are talking about.

149 A lot of the good GOP candidates are in bad positions to run, like Christie and Jindal. Christie would have to abandon his first term as Governor, and Jindal runs for re-election as Governor next year.

 It's a weak crowd born out of the mixture of the old guard being gone, and the new guard just arriving on the scene. We're going to have to suck it up and just get someone who can beat Obama, and *Ugh* that might be Romney.

As for Coulter, what's the deal? She was on Romney's dick in 2008 talking about him being a great conservative. I disagreed then and I still do, but why did she change her mind?

150 144< I know you are bitter because eunuchs like yourself can't have children but at some point you have to let it go.

151

Pawlenty, Daniels, and Romney could win (have won) the moderate voters in swing states.

Who else can and why?

152

As for Coulter, what's the deal? She was on Romney's dick in 2008 talking about him being a great conservative. I disagreed then and I still do, but why did she change her mind?

Posted by: Crazee at May 22, 2011 12:50 PM (H3ujh)

Romneycare and his attempts to talk about how its good and Obamacare is wrong?

153 Things are a little tense here in moron nation. If the real world is anything like this comment thread, we don't deserve to win in 2012.

154 I very much like Sarah Palin and think she is a great king-maker in the party now but I think sadly that her reputation has been far too damaged to win. We have to appeal to moderates to win against Obama. The media and much of our pop culture have dedicated themselves to destroying her after she made their golden god stumble back in 08. Its too hard of a thing for any mortal to over come.

155

"And I am sick to damn death of the big tent purity screamers."

 

Uh oh, we better call the waaa-mbulance.  For a dude who has posted the same stupid "RINO" / "Mittens" garbage every single day for over a year, you've got very little patience.

156 152 144< I know you are bitter because eunuchs like yourself can't have children but at some point you have to let it go.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at May 22, 2011 12:52 PM (NtTkA)

I hope you realize that post was made in a mocking manner.

157 155, The real world is worse.

158 Pawlenty, Daniels, and Romney could win (have won) the moderate voters in swing states. Who else can and why? Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 12:53 PM (VoSja) Ok, then what? They do moderate things? Moderation is what got us here. We need radical change, not more moderate progress towards Socialism.

159 158, I do now.

160

I would much rather have a more conservative candidate than Romney or some others, but where the hell is the conservative electorate that is going to carry them to power? How does (for example) Palin, Bachmann, Santorum, Demint get elected in a national election?

 

161 The old "we need a moderate to win blue states" worked so well last time didn't it.

162

#160

Then you better have some amazing plan to keep 30% of the electorate from voting in the next Presdiential election.

Part of the anger of the Tea Party is that the entire political spectrum has shifted to the center-left because of changing demographics and cultural change. This doesn't change just because we nominate Sarah Palin.

163 Pawlenty, Daniels, and Romney could win (have won) the moderate voters in swing states. Who else can and why? Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 12:53 PM If this is our strategy and focus for 2012 -- who could win 'moderate' voters -- instead of who can get us out of our current financial crises, then we've already lost. Until we understand that we have to start with candidate(s) who are conservative and whom we know will kick ass and take no prisoners in office and then worry about how to convince the 'moderates' to support them, we're not going to succeed. We have to stop doing things backasswards. Get a good candidate, then convince the 'moderates' to support that candidate.

164 I would much rather have a more conservative candidate than Romney or some others, but where the hell is the conservative electorate that is going to carry them to power? How does (for example) Palin, Bachmann, Santorum, Demint get elected in a national election? Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 12:55 PM (VoSja) How? Using a political campaign. This thing can change people's minds about a candidate. I hear they can be quite effective.

165 165, Prove your numbers, what you are throwing out is opinion.

166 I don't want a squish candidate who will appeal only to moderates and lose conservatives. We need a candidate who can clearly explain why our ideals for the future of America are better then Obama's ideas of a managed decline. This just really seems like the 70s all over again, we need a Reagan to beat Carter the Second.

167
What do you really want, his head in the stockade for a public stoning?
Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 12:46 PM

I told you what I want: to know where the hell his head was. It's like that joke about the Freudian slip. Guy meant to say to his wife, "Please pass the butter," but somehow it came out as "You're a faithless shrew and you ruined my life."

No, T-Paw, it's not that simple. Why did he fall for the superstition? Speaks very badly for his judgment. What will he fall for next?

168

The median voter is a different person than it was in 1980 or even 2000.

Was George Bush a moderate who campaigned as a conservative or a conservative who campaigned as a moderate? I'd say he was center-right and campaigned as such.

169 Daniels WAS NO RINO, but his wussy attitude and the way he presented himself would have been a detrement to the GOP. I'm glad he's out, sorry to guys like Jeff B and others who thought he was the only hope. So we dodged a bullet from Trump, Huck, & Daniels now we have to try and dodge Newt (he's already done that for us himselg it seems) and Mitt (who's the front runner). Then there's Palin and Pawlenty who i'm not sure if we should dodge or be happy about as I fear/wonder/debate w/ myself on how electable they are.

170 So Cain showed that he's weak when debating actual policy as opposed to outlining broader themes.

That's what I figured.

171 The best candidate would be someone who is able to pacify moderate voters by giving credence to their ideas and concerns, gives off an air of reason and authority, and acts as a conservative when push comes to shove.

 Those guys exist, but they can't or won't run in this cycle. So, there are two choices.

1. Run a guy who's somewhat moderate, but will be better than Obama.

or

2. Bank on Obama being so unpopular(i.e Bush and Republicans in '0 that you can hit a Home Run, and go for the gusto.

I'm not sure Obama is THAT toxic yet. If you do, fine. If there's a reasonable chance at hitting a home run like Palin or whatever, I'm with you. I don't see it.

172

Reagan won about 25% of liberals in the 1980 election. He also was elected in an electorate looked much different than today.

I keep coming back to this, but this is the reason why Republicans are squishy, why Democrats are so emboldened about their agenda even if they suffer large short-term losses, and why many Tea Party people talk about the country changing and losing its character.

The median voter isn't the same person as in 1980. It is a completely different electorate. Wishing it was so doesn't make it true.

173
How about the order is chosen at random?

Then you have to campaign more as a National candidate.
Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 22, 2011

Oh wow, wouldn't it be hilarious if California came up as #1? Republican candidates would actually have to campaign out here basically so the rest of the nation could "overhear" them. Be hilarious to see them splitting their message on illegal immigration.

174 It is interesting that the self-styled political experts here have to yell out how smart and savvy they are. They regurgitate old polls and have no faith in the power of persuasion.

175

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 22, 2011 12:58 PM (AYNHC)

then explain to a guy like me who hates the establishment but also doesn't buy into the purity or die argument what happened in Nevada and Delawae then?

176 >>>You do not know what you are talking about.

Oh really?  Explain how so instead of just taking shots.  I'm explaining my positions.

177

Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 12:55 PM (VoSja)

I can see Palin MAYVE pulling it off, all ther others you mentioned would be a sure fire loser 99% of the time

178 I don't want a squish candidate who will appeal only to moderates and lose conservatives. We need a candidate who can clearly explain why our ideals for the future of America are better then Obama's ideas of a managed decline. Posted by: Drew in MO at May 22, 2011 01:00 PM THIS. We don't need a squish who looks at what ignorant moderates think are good policies and then runs on those policies simply to get their votes... and then loses the conservative base, because 'moderate' policies are failed policies. 'Moderates' will get behind winning ideas if a candidate explains them well and stands behind them unapologetically. 'Moderates' are pretty much the most ignorant of the voting blocs out there, but they are not stupid. They need to hear good ideas and need to know that the candidate expressing these ideas believes in them and will implement them, because s/he knows they are what is best and what will work.

179 wtf is up w/ my typing today? lol

180

#168

When Reagan ran in 1980, the electorate was 88% White. Now the electorate is about 70% White. This means that the median voter is still a White mdidle-class voter, but they are much more in the middle of the political spectrum than in 1980.

The ideological affiliations of White voters hasn't really changed all that much in the last thirty years (besides to the left on social issues), but the group of voters in the middle is now more left because of the increase in base Democratic voters due to their strong advantage with minority voters.

I constantly back up what I'm saying with numbers and then people just say, 'Fuck off, this is how I want the world to be.'

181 If I decide to run for president, and I have a week before I announce.  I spend the next few days learning everything about everything.

Getting the Israel Palestinian situation is easy.... how do you screw that one up? 

Honestly.... these guys running... spend 1-2 hours reading blogs, listen to Rush, Wilcow, Quinn & Rose... do something - the ideas are all presented there in an easy to understand manner.. pick the ones you agree with and figure out how to present them yourself..

good lord... we can all do this and we all have full time jobs on the side.

182 In the "counting chickens before they hatch" department, I am 99.9999% sure that whoever the GOP nominee is, he/she will take North Carolina. We went for Obama by less than one percent in 2008 and Republicans have made major gains statewide since. The GOP Legislature has tightened up some of the voting rules, too, so that will help. Not a 100%  done deal, but close.

183 >>>Daniels WAS NO RINO, but his wussy attitude and the way he presented himself would have been a detrement to the GOP. I'm glad he's out, sorry to guys like Jeff B and others who thought he was the only hope.

Actually, YRM, I was really beginning to come around to the POV that you had about Daniels: too much of a *genuine* wimp (not like the way people slander Pawlenty, who's actually something of a hockey brawler IRL, but an actual beta) to win, regardless of his record of achievement.  Too much self-effacing BS, too much of the whole 'shrinking violet' act.  Even before he made the decision to bow out, I was on record here as preferring Pawlenty for that reason.

Still, you have to tip your cap to the man and his record in Indiana.  I mean, he'll never be President, but he really saved his state.  He deserves all of our respect and praise for that.

184 I realize everyone is either a RINO liberal or a real conservative nowadays, but whatever happened to the idea that someone can be conservative and disagree on certain issues? I'll gladly call Snowe and Collins squishes, because they don't seem to have any actual worldview. But can't someone have a different view on a particular issue and still be conservative?

 I mean, Lieberman disagrees with liberals on foreign policy but he's STILL a liberal.

I'm not assaulting anyone, just asking.

185 Believe it or not but I'm looking for candidates who know what to do and what not to do regarding this country's problems.

Not detailed knowledge of shitty little conflicts on the other side of the world.

186 To all cheering for him...can you brief me again on exactly what Herman Cain's policies are?  Because, quite frankl,y I have come to the conclusion that he is an incurious dumbass.

187 Again, the intellectual dishonest of people who proffer these excuses, yet shriek about RINOs at every opportunity, is staggering. Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 12:41 PM (hIWe1) The actual intellectual dishonesty comes from Wallace in the way he phrased this question - " After Wallace explained the Palestinian demand to return to the homes they were “thrown out of” [sic!] in 1948..." Okay, Cain should've known it, and he also should have pimp-slapped Wallace for saying the Pali's were "thrown out" of their homes. The vast majority left of their own accord, thinking the nascent state of Israel would be crushed. Those that wanted to stay and live in peace were indeed thrown out - by the Arab terrorists. Cain gets a pass from me.

188 Regardless of the fact I'm not even necessarily a Cain fan.

189 Not detailed knowledge of shitty little conflicts on the other side of the world.

Afghanistan is a shitty little conflict.  OK, then.

190

Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:09 PM (VoSja)

heh, yeah sorry folks but Paper has the facts to prove it and as a Hispanic I see it myself in person, no it doesn't mean let's give up but we better start strategizing a little better because victory or not in 2012, we have the demographic shifts still happening and Dems will benefit from it unless we start selling conservatism outside of whites.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 01:10 PM (hIWe1)

he was a GREAT Governor to Indiana, my only beef with him was his image which scared me electability wise and I believed embarassed our side some times. but this talk that he was some RINO is ridicilous.

191 2. Bank on Obama being so unpopular ( i.e Bush and Republicans in '08 ) that you can hit a Home Run, and go for the gusto. I'm not sure Obama is THAT toxic yet. If you do, fine. If there's a reasonable chance at hitting a home run like Palin or whatever, I'm with you. I don't see it. Posted by: Crazee at May 22, 2011 01:03 PM I see 2012 ending up like 2004. Dubya was demonized and smeared and made to be pretty unpopular by all the constant lies and attacks by the MF-ing media, Hollywood and the Democrat Party RE: the war efforts and the economy, but the GOP base still loved Dubya and really got out there to get him re-elected vs Kerry. The Democrats' strategy in 2004 was "Anybody but Bush!" and they ran a pretty bad candidate in Kerry and lost in a relatively close race. I see the same thing happening in 2012. The GOP will run a Kerry-like candidate with the strategy of "Anybody but Obama!" and will lose a close race, because the Obama base will go all out in getting him re-elected. Obama has the money, the bully-pulpit, the MF-ing media 100% in support of him, Hollywood 100% in support of him, ACORN, local Democrats manning the voting booths for him, etc. If it's close, the Democrats will steal it, as they always do.

192 Cain gets a pass from me.

How many of those are you printing?  You're going to need more.

193 Anyway, it drives me nuts that we're never going to be able to end all the ethanol foolishness as long as Iowa is an early primary state. Wonder which way he'll go when he's talking to a bunch of corn farmers.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 22, 2011 12:13 PM (Z05lF)

All primaries should be on the same day, period. If Iowa doesn't like that, they can go pound sand.

194 Posted by: YRM (Go Bolts!) at May 22, 2011 01:04 PM (UzBwz) Everything in moderation. Even moderation. In the long run, if you keep pushing moderates you end up helping the Left. Moderates help the Left by faking their moderation (they are Lefties in disguise), giving in to the Left in the name of compromise, and by not seeing how all growth in government power eventually leads to Socialism and Tyranny. I am not a Purist. I can live with a moderate here and there, but I do not want them for their own sake and I recognize they often do more harm than good. So, how do we get around the fact that Federal folks are elected locally? I do not know, but I want to try to get Conservatives elected even in places where it is seemingly impossible to win.

195

This is why Rove was such a cocksucker.

The Republican establishment saw that future elections would be difficult, so they decided to be fiscal moderates, social conservatives, and work on issues like immigration that helped their business interests and Hispanic voters.

Long-term, they saw a coalition between social conservatives and fiscal moderates as a winning national strategy. This strategy also recognized their strength with older voters who tend to be socially conservative but strongly support SS and Medicare.

This wasn't going to work. Social issues are losing their electoral power, and Hispanics voting even 50/50 Republican is looking extremely difficult. Now Republicans are stuck with the institutional momentum of their decisions (and the people in office who agreed with them), and new political realities.

196 I am confident that Mitch Daniels' voice and example will continue to influence the public debate in our state and our nation for many years to come."

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 22, 2011 12:15 PM (CLYmB)

Also, I hope not, cause he's got some weird ass ideas about how to fight the Dems.

197 193 Not detailed knowledge of shitty little conflicts on the other side of the world.

Afghanistan is a shitty little conflict.  OK, then.

Indeed, it is.

198 I mean, Lieberman disagrees with liberals on foreign policy but he's STILL a liberal.

I'm not assaulting anyone, just asking.

Yeah Lieberman is a liberal He disagrees with the Dems on Israel and that is about it. The last time I looked he had an ACU rating of 17 solidly in the liberal block.  That is why I could never understand some of the Morons calling for him as a VP with McCain.

As for conservative disagreeing on some issues, sure. Contrary to the constant whine all of us don't ask for 100% on every issue. But, each of us separately have some issue that we consider make or break due to their overall importance. To me gun control, cap and tax, Obamacare, and amnesty fall in that category. Also, a consistent record in fiscal matters against government spending is VERY important.

199 196 Cain gets a pass from me. How many of those are you printing? You're going to need more. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:14 PM (7utQ2 I should have said it's provisional. Again, 18 months out. Let's see how he and the rest of the field shake out, okay???

200 Afghanistan is a shitty little conflict.  OK, then.

Indeed, it is.

Posted by: MlR at May 22, 2011 01:16 PM (uxyPr)

Nice to know.

I'll tell that to my friends on the ground there.

You seem to have all the nuanced thinking of a Ronulan.

201 >>>You do not know what you are talking about. Oh really? Explain how so instead of just taking shots. I'm explaining my positions. Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 01:05 PM (hIWe1) Why should I? You have a closed mind and much anger in you. Live with it. I think you are very confused and quite in love with yourself.

202

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:12 PM (7utQ2)

I was a Cain fan until I started seeing his public apperances, he comes off more like an activist who has a rdio show then a Presidential Contender.

203 Maybe I'll just tell them myself.

It's a poor argument to hide behind the troops, especially when you're talking to one of them.

Afghanistan is the definition of a shitty little conflict.

204 >>>'Moderates' will get behind winning ideas if a candidate explains them well and stands behind them unapologetically. In much the same way you will get behind a moderate if he explains his positions well and stands behind them unapologetically?

205 I should have said it's provisional. Again, 18 months out. Let's see how he and the rest of the field shake out, okay???

Sorry, no.  If you want to President, then I expect just a bit more seriousness about a) a war that we have been fighting for a decade--next door to TWO unstable nuclear/wannabe nuclear powers and b) "the right of return" issue that now encompasses some 40 million Palestinians.

Cain is an unserious nitwit.

206 good lord... we can all do this and we all have full time jobs on the side. Posted by: Reality Man at May 22, 2011 01:09 PM (L2x1w) Full time jobs, with U-6 at 19%?! Ouch!

207

<>>The ideological affiliations of White voters hasn't really changed all that much in the last thirty years (besides to the left on social issues), but the group of voters in the middle is now more left because of the increase in base Democratic voters due to their strong advantage with minority voters.

>>>I constantly back up what I'm saying with numbers and then people just say, 'Fuck off, this is how I want the world to be.'

This, incidentally, is why Bush and Rove were so intent on courting Hispanics, to the point of embracing options that many on the right considered tantamount to Amnesty.  We're never going to win Presidential elections regularly - EVER AGAIN - until and unless we can make significant and consistent inroads into the Hispanic community. 

That's why Marco Rubio is the Great Conservative Hope in many quarters.  But -- and I hate to mention this for fear of sparking another war -- we're also going to need some sort of settlement on border issues.  It isn't right, it isn't 'fair,' but it's a fact: we're fucking hemorrhaging Hispanic votes on the Border issue, not just because of the fact that they prefer porous borders (which is a legit policy difference) but because of the they fact that they perceive real ethnic hatred and disgust coming from the conservative quarter of the GOP on this issue.  And I can't honestly say that they're entirely wrong to, sometimes. 

Everybody can call me a RINO all the want, but if the GOP manages to broker a solution that actually does involve securing the borders (and I mean REALLY securing them, not fake "securing" them) in exchange for a path to citizenship, then they have a chance to survive in the future without shifting significantly to the left on policy issues.  If not -- if people keep shrieking AMNESTY! and DEPORT THEM ALL! when these issues are broached -- then we're fucked.  And we're going to pay for it by having to shift to the left on economic and social policy in order to pick up squishy white voters to compensate for the otherwise conservative Hispanics we will have generationally alienated.

208 Cain is an unserious nitwit. Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:20 PM (7utQ2) So, okay. Tell me someone YOU think is cat's meow.

209 It's a poor argument to hide behind the troops, especially when you're talking to one of them.

Afghanistan is the definition of a shitty little conflict.

Posted by: MlR at May 22, 2011 01:18 PM (uxyPr)

Who's hiding?  When the U.S. is spending its blood and treasure, I have hard to time using the descriptor "shitty."

210 >>>As for Coulter, what's the deal? She was on Romney's dick in 2008 talking about him being a great conservative. I disagreed then and I still do, but why did she change her mind? I believe she believes he is qualified, decent, and conservative, but unelectable, because most do not believe the conservative part and have doubts about the other two. A candidate may be qualified to perform the functions of an office but just not very good at actually getting the office. (Reminds me, in reverse, of Joe Vs. the Volcano, and the ten minute "I know he can GET the job, but can he DO the job?" sequence.)

211 I have hard to time using the descriptor "shitty." Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:22 PM (7utQ Tell it to that French diplomat who used it to describe Israel.

212

As for Coulter, what's the deal? She was on Romney's dick in 2008 talking about him being a great conservative. I disagreed then and I still do, but why did she change her mind?

after it came down to him and Mac, many conservatives had no choice but to back him in 08, now Mitt's in Mac's place as "El Diablo"

213 Cain is an unserious nitwit.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:20 PM (7utQ2)


So, okay. Tell me someone YOU think is cat's meow.

J.J., that is not my point.  I have read many, many people begin to tout this guy for the past two weeks based on "he tells it like it is" BS and extremely thin on policy details.  Cain is in the screwy boat with Ron Paul.  He will never be President and we should even entertain the idea based on what he has offered.

214 I'm trying to think of who called Daniels a RINO ever here, besides the people that wanted to accuse others of calling him a rino and so going on to insult everyone for not getting behind him.  A Beta cukholded idiot that wanted to declare a truce on social issues and supported the Democrat reps in his state practicing Wisconsin's fleabagger idea, yeah sure.  But I don't really recall anyone not saying he wasn't conservative.

215 >>>Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:15 PM (VoSja)

Interestingly, I have a very different analysis of Rove than you do.  Check my previous post out.  I agree that the way Rove and Bush handled it was totally cackhanded, but their appreciation of the situation -- the GOP needs to get 30-40% of the Hispanic vote on a consistent basis going forward or it's royally fucked on a national level -- was accurate.

216 I've always been leery of Cain's outsider status. I know a lot of people have seen that as a plus to his campaign, but I want someone who has experience moving around the political minefield, who understands the dirty machine that is Washington politics.

217

I'm not a fan of changing our immigration laws, and I don't know that it is needed to be electorally viable. I do think though that this is an issue where Republicans have to be much better as sticking to a consistent message.

The real problem is still the 'Rove strategy' which keeps promising results in voter coalitions that show no sign of voting Republican at least 50/50.

218 Paper and a lot of RINOs seem determined to pretend that 2010 midterms didn't happen.

219 208 >>>'Moderates' will get behind winning ideas if a candidate explains them well and stands behind them unapologetically. In much the same way you will get behind a moderate if he explains his positions well and stands behind them unapologetically? Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:20 PM You forgot the 'winning ideas' part. I will never get behind a 'moderate' who explains well his positions in favor of gun control, cap-n-tax, Obamacare and Amnesty. But 'moderates' will get behind those ideas if there is no other candidate out there providing ideas on better policies and explaining those policies -- gun control, cap-n-tax, Obamacare and Amnesty -- are failures.

220

Posted by: buzzion at May 22, 2011 01:25 PM (oVQFe)

comment 21 my friend

221 I do not believe Cain is unserious. There are three things I like about him: 1. His degree is in mathematics. I consider that evidence of a capable and rigorous mind. 2. He served as an executive. Not the same as being a government executive, but not so far away as to count for nothing. 3. On that "executive" part, the big knock on a business executive is "that's a different kind of leadership, where you just get to boss people around rather than do what politicians have to do, persuade and form coalitions." Although I don't consider being a radio talk show host a qualification generally, here, I think it fills in that weakness of Cain's a little, because being a talk show host must entail, I think, some political skills with the audience, gauging their moods and interests, and responding in a politic manner. I do not think he is abundantly qualified. I do think he is credible and plausible, though. I think he makes the cut on this question. Not overwhelmingly, but we don't need to overwhelm. That said, I am still looking for Pawlenty for emerge. I am hopeful about that. It will take only one confrontation or blistering speech to make people say, "Oh, okay, he's got some brass."

222 Prior to Sunday's discussion, Cain's announcement address acknowledged that he's not going to sound sophisticated about international affairs, but that he knew the difference between our allies and our enemies, and that he'd never throw our friends under the bus while gifting our enemies.

Give the guy his shot at his own style that functions with more strength than Obama's "nuance".

It isn't as if Cain isn't going to remember phraseology once discussed. And it isn't as if Cain hasn't thought of these ideas before, though in his own terminology.

Finally, what's the point arguing details about matters already rejected out of hand. Given Cain's opinion that Israel has sovereign rights, and given that Israel has no less right to its territory than any other nation--specifically those in the Middle East that are relatively "new" as identities such as Iraq and Libya, to maintain itself as Israel sees best for Israel's security, then indeed, Israel/Netanyahu having already rejected the notion of relenting to Palestinian residency/territorial demands, Israel evades the problem with the "return" of Palestinians.

Cain is a very intelligent man. Wisdom does not equate to Sophistry.

Where's the "wisdom" rejecting a presidential candidate because he is specifically up front, and because that candidate rejects the practice of sophisticated deceit? If the candidate couldn't "get it" that would be a concern. But that the candidate speaks differently than the MSM hardly provides measure for rejection by discerning voters concerned with the rot from revisionism.

Our monumental problem is the smart-ass Ivy League deceiver in office.

I'd rather support Cain than Mitt, Huntsman or the former Gov. of NM.

223 If the word goes out that an impenetrable fence is going up and amnesty will soon follow, the flood of illegal migrants will be epic in scale.

224 Knocks against Cain: 1. He's old. 2. He's had cancer. 3. I am afraid of brown people.

225 225

Posted by: buzzion at May 22, 2011 01:25 PM (oVQFe)

comment 21 my friend

Posted by: YRM (Go Bolts!) at May 22, 2011 01:28 PM (UzBwz)

So that's one.  The way some people talk though they act like everyone that wasn't on board with him was screaming it.

226 3. I am afraid of brown people.

Well, duh, pasty.

227 >>>I'm trying to think of who called Daniels a RINO ever here, besides the people that wanted to accuse others of calling him a rino and so going on to insult everyone for not getting behind him.  A Beta cukholded idiot that wanted to declare a truce on social issues and supported the Democrat reps in his state practicing Wisconsin's fleabagger idea, yeah sure.  But I don't really recall anyone not saying he wasn't conservative.

You have a conveniently selective memory, then.  Daniels was called a RINO by several people, all of them members of the TrueCon brigade. 

Of course now it never happened.  Just like people never *really* thought Christine O'Donnell could win in Delaware...they just wanted to send a message, that's all. 

228

McCain did win a little more than 30% of Hispanic voters.

This is how different the national demography is from three decades ago. The Republicans just took winning 50% of Hispanic voters for granted without recognizing the real political opposition to increased immigration and amnesty in their base. They didn't care and implemented a top-down, bureaucratic strategy about how to win elections.

The Republicans are in a position where in the future they need to win about 40% of Hispanic voters and around 60% of White voters to get above 50%.

Good luck winning 60% of White voters without finding some moderates in there.

229 That said, I am still looking for Pawlenty for emerge. Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:28 PM Oy... The guy's political background is to the left of Dubya and akin to McCain, yet people are still supporting him. Ugh...

230 Pawlenty supported Global Warming.

For all his supposed "intelligence", that proves Pawlenty buys into fraud for his own benefit/profit.

231 Moderates are like clay. We keep letting the Left and RINOs mold them into the shapes they desire.

232

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama II at May 22, 2011 01:26 PM (n46bX)

so we're RINOs for voicing concern on how we can win w/ changing demographics, the same changing demographics that allowed the most unpopular Senet Majority Leader in History to win in the very elections you mentioned? the same that let that cocksucker Bennet stick around in Colorado? the same that let Boxer and Brown win in California?, California a state w/ 55 electoral votes that because of the changing demographics we have lost we can't entertain in winning while Dems can count on it?

We want our side to win and expand and because we point out the challenges ahead, we're called RINOs? so someone like me who opposed Mac's nomination, shudders at the idea we're stuck w/ Romney, but yet agrees that we need to adress demographic shifts is a RINO?

sit down and stfu

233

Who's hiding?  When the U.S. is spending its blood and treasure, I have hard to time using the descriptor "shitty."

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:22 PM (7utQ2)

Because we are using our blood and treasure on a region of pederasts... That's the part I can't get behind. I think it would be better to just tell the warlords that if we see them helping terrorists, we will bomb them till there is nothing left.

234 And it isn't as if Cain hasn't thought of these ideas before, though in his own terminology.

Not sure what you basing that conclusion on Maverick.  I have seen ZERO evidence that he has thought about much of anything.

235 We are not "bleeding Hispanic votes" over the border issue. Both McCain and Bush supported amnesty and they got very little in the way of Hispanic votes despite their pandering.

We are bleeding Hispanic votes because by the second generation in the U.S. they are natural Democrat voters. That is urban voters looking for government cheese.

I do agree though that we need some immigration reform. We can start by throwing out ALL the laws that Ted Kennedy had anything to do with.

236 Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:31 PM (VoSja) Anaylsis by Paper, circa 2009.

237 Pawlenty supported Global Warming. For all his supposed "intelligence", that proves Pawlenty buys into fraud for his own benefit/profit. Posted by: maverick muse at May 22, 2011 01:32 PM (H+LJc) Yep. He owes us an explanation, not the other way around.

238 I'm quite disappointed Daniels has decided not to run. He is a good man, not a RINO despite was bunker-boy Rush Limbaugh says, and he coul have beaten Obama. It's a loss.

239 3. I am afraid of conservative radical, right-wing, Uncle Tom brown people. Posted by: ace at May 22, 2011 01:29 PM FIFY. That will be the common attack on him by the MF-ing media, Democrats, Hollywood, etc etc etc. Just like they did to Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Michael Steele (when he ran for Senate and they did the sambo smear), etc etc etc.

240

#222

Republicans won mainly due to differences in turnout. There were some moderate voters who switched, but the main contributing factors to the election victory for the Republicans were:

1. High turnout among older voters concerned about Medicare

2. High enthusiasm among Republican base voters

3. High enthusiasm and interest created by the Tea Party Movement

4. Low turnout from minority and young voters who often don't vote in midterm elections

Statewide elections were much more difficult for Republicans than the House seats. Colorado and Nevada were tough losses. And our candidates (as good as they are) in Penn, Illinois, and Florida didn't even break 50%.

241 >>>Paper and a lot of RINOs seem determined to pretend that 2010 midterms didn't happen.

And you seem determined to be innumerate and unaware of historical trends.  Fact: off-year electorates are RADICALLY different in makeup (much whiter, much older, generally more conservative) and in turnout (usually far less than Presidential years: in 2008 130 million people voted, in 2010 only 82 million voted). 

Guess who the majority of those missing 50 million voters are that come out for Presidential elections are?  Yup.  Minorities, young people, and other traditional Democratic voting blocs.  That's why you always hear talk about it's harder for such-and-such Republican candidate or Senator to win in places like Pennsylvania "during a Presidential year."

Ignorance is not your friend, especially when coupled with smugness.

242 As for calling Daniels a RINO I never did. In fact, he was on my short list even after the "truce" gaffe because I thought I understood where he was coming from there. But when he supported the Dems who left the legislature and went out of State to prevent a quorum he got bounced off of my list.

That was one major gaffe too many. But it didn't make him a RINO.

243 Posted by: YRM (Go Bolts!) at May 22, 2011 01:33 PM (UzBwz) Yes dumbass, if you associate policy with race - I consider you an idiot racist.

244 but that he knew the difference between our allies and our enemies, and that he'd never throw our friends under the bus while gifting our enemies.

Does he? Does any of the candidates know the difference between allies and enemies? Who are our allies in Afghanistan?
I'm waiting for one person on our side admit that the Bush Doctrine has been an utter failure. And I'm not talking about Ron Paul and his non-interventionist bullshit. I'm talking about this notion of spreading democracy in Islamic nations.

245 Because we are using our blood and treasure on a region of pederasts... That's the part I can't get behind.

Fine.  But we are.  We live in reality and the reality is that the President needs to think about heavy issues beforehand.  It is not, as we have all pointed out over the past two plus years, a great venue for OJT.  I cannot take someone seriously who says "I'll get back to you on January 20, 2013 about the whole war thing."

246 ace, seriously an agist?

That would be pathetic, not to mention offensive to a lot of your "following" here.

If he's a cancer survivor, he'd be certain to select a strong VP candidate.

It just might take Cain to defeat Obama's perpetual campaign race card.

247 Posted by: YRM (Go Bolts!) at May 22, 2011 01:33 PM (UzBwz) Did changing demographics happen in MA last year when Scott Brown was elected? Is MA now a purple State? Should Ebola be worried about losing it? The meme of approaching economic and political disaster is spreading. That is why all previous electoral outcomes are fading in relevance. TEA Party Conservatism is spreading everywhere. We should be helping it.

248

And our candidates (as good as they are) in Penn, Illinois, and Florida didn't even break 50%.

Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:36 PM (VoSja)

All three of those though they were running as non-incumbents.  And Florida had Crist being an asshole.  I hope that when they come up for relection in 2016 they are a bit more established and popular in their states and have the typical incumbent advantage.

249 The way some people talk though they act like everyone that wasn't on board with him was screaming it.

I know you read the posts during the 'social issue truce' statement. It (the RINO talk) was a pretty common theme.

Regardless he never revved anyone's engines. Guess he needed to have some Chris Matthews rabid spittle forming in the corners of his mouth to look viable as he wasn't going to grow six inches over night.

But then it came out that he took his wife back *gasps* and he he showed how much of a mangina he really was. What an omega loser!

Before the Indiana legislative session adjourned last month, they left him a balanced budget and a surplus of one billion dollars. But he's short. And he's a pussy. And that matters most apparently.

250

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama II at May 22, 2011 01:36 PM (n46bX)

yeah assclown, lok athe numbers, trends, and polls; and btw i'm Hispanic and see it every day w/ relatives and friends. the GOP has ignored Hispanic voters when spreading conservatism and it's lead more welfare entitlement among my folks.

and btw it was Hispanics who were the diff in NV, CO, & CA. that was against a solid conservative in some of those races. and NV and CO both voted for Dubya twice but yet they didn't get involved in the GOP wave w/ the exception if a GOP NV Gov.

so asshole you have anything better then calling me a RINO for pointing out challenges ahead?

251 Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:25 PM (7utQ2) Seriously, I am interested. Who is it we should get behind (figuratively).

252

#253

Absolutely right. This is why is it so important to take advantage of political cycles like that when they come around. You can get in during a 'cycle year', do a decent job, and get re-elected in a year you certainly wouldn't be elected as a new candidate.

That is why some people like me were so disappointed by Angle and O'Donnell. They wasted the best Senate cycle for Republicans in decades and potential opportunities to hold the seat for a while in tougher times, the 2016 Presidential election with closer normal turnout levels.

253

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 22, 2011 01:38 PM (AYNHC)

Brown is the only GOP guy up in congress from that state after he was given the gift of a candidate that bashed her own state and voters, and he's been a strict moderate as Senator. your point doesn't make sense to me.

 

254 I'm talking about this notion of spreading democracy in Islamic nations. Posted by: lowandslow at May 22, 2011 01:37 PM That's not a failure. We spread democracy in Japan and Germany post-WWII. That should have been our policy in Islamic nations as well. Just as was laid out here -- No Substitute for Victory - The Defeat of Islamic Totalitarianism -- the goal should have been to make sure Iraq and Afghanistan went from Islamic Republics with Islam-based Constitutions to Secular Republics with Islam completely eliminated from their politics. Political Islam is the same as Naziism and Shintoism and should have been treated as such and eliminated, just as we did post-WWII. But because of gutless, spineless and nadless worship of Political Correctness and "multi-culturalism", we have our current situation. The goal was/is good. The implementation was/is disastrous.

255 We lost NV because of the unions in Las Vegas and Reno. We lost MD because it was a loss before the election was held. My first post on that primary was a choice between shit and dookie. Neither Republican candidate was worth a shit.

256

#252

Scott Brown is a pro-civil unions, pro-choice, moderate Senator who won in a special election where about 1 millions less people turned out than in 2008 with 52% of the vote.

I don't think he makes your point for you.

257 Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:42 PM (VoSja) Mike Castle would have been more trouble than he was worth. He was a Democrat mole and would have done much damage to the GOP and our efforts in the Senate.

258 >>>But then it came out that he took his wife back *gasps* and he he showed how much of a mangina he really was. What an omega loser!

Before the Indiana legislative session adjourned last month, they left him a balanced budget and a surplus of one billion dollars. But he's short. And he's a pussy. And that matters most apparently.

One of the things that disgusts me the most about the TrueCons is the vicious glee with which they tore into Daniels (and others: Pawlenty and Christie get this too) on purely *personal* issues.  It's one thing to disagree on policy matters, but because Daniels offered no openings on that (again: the guy is pretty much absolutely 100% perfect on every policy issue as a conservative), and yet they still wanted to attack and tear at the guy who was threatening St. Sarah, they had to lower themselves to filthy ad hominem attacks the likes of which we would have expected from our real enemies on the Left.  I expect the DailyKos and Democratic Underground to be making cuckold, "pussy faggot," and "short wimp" jokes.  Not our supposed "True Conservative" base.

But again, those folks aren't really true conservatives.  They're utterly uninterested in the principles of true conservatism, or in the practice of governing as a conservative and putting those philosophies into constructive action.  They just want to fight a petty little cultural war against Book Learnin' and Them Damn Elites.  Which is why they gravitate towards candidates who reflect their own ignorance, I think.  They don't see it is a demerit, they see it as a PLUS: real "outsider" types who are somehow more authentic because they don't have experience (or competence, but that's another argument).

259

#262

I think Castle was awful as well, but it is the fault of Republicans in Delaware for making the choice between two opposites when a moderate Republican could have potentially won that race.

260

Posted by: Vic at May 22, 2011 01:45 PM (M9Ie6)

right, the fact Hispanics voted so strongly for the Dem had nothing to do with it

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 22, 2011 01:46 PM (AYNHC)

the only stupid thing I could find in castle's record was cap & tax, he voted aginst the Stimulus and Obamacare (though Hannity claimed he did)

261 Brown is the only GOP guy up in congress from that state after he was given the gift of a candidate that bashed her own state and voters, and he's been a strict moderate as Senator. your point doesn't make sense to me. Posted by: YRM (Go Bolts!) at May 22, 2011 01:44 PM (UzBwz) My point is electing Scott has nothing to do with changing demographics in MA, but more to do with a growing sense of danger that is spreading everywhere.

262

3. On that "executive" part, the big knock on a business executive is "that's a different kind of leadership, where you just get to boss people around rather than do what politicians have to do, persuade and form coalitions." Although I don't consider being a radio talk show host a qualification generally, here, I think it fills in that weakness of Cain's a little, because being a talk show host must entail, I think, some political skills with the audience, gauging their moods and interests, and responding in a politic manner.

Our role in Afghanistan or Palestinian "right of return" never came up during his radio show?  I can forgive not being familiar every minute detail about a complicated issue like finance.  Not knowing what "right of return" means, or being unable to give even a platitude about Afghanistan?  Sorry, no.  Not for leader of the free world.

It all goes back to your own point comparing the difference between saying shit and doing shit.  For all the talk, we have absolutely no idea how Cain would govern, as he has zero record to base an assumption on.

263 Scott Brown won because he caught the Dems with their pants down being overconfident. That will not happen again. He will lose the next election despite crossing the aisle during that disaster of a lame duck session.

264

so i'm having lots of fun debating but my gf is begging I got to the beach w/ her, see ya later folks

(just in case someone responds to my comments and waits for a reply, you won't get it, i'm out the door...)

265 The goal was/is good. The implementation was/is disastrous.

Why was the goal good? They don't what we're selling, never have and never will. And if the implementation is so disastrous why doesn't any political leader say so? Instead we're stuck in perpetual wars that cost lives and money with no hope of success. Hell we don't even talk about it anymore, it's just the way it is.

266

Daniels offered no openings on that (again: the guy is pretty much absolutely 100% perfect on every policy issue as a conservative),

Support of Fleabaggers in the Indiana House. 

267 the only stupid thing I could find in castle's record was cap & tax, he voted aginst the Stimulus and Obamacare (though Hannity claimed he did)

Castle voted with the Dems more than he did Republicans. He was a DIABLO. Yes I looked at his record and it was shit.

268 Seriously, I am interested. Who is it we should get behind (figuratively).

Like, Ace, I am waiting for someone--almost anyone--to step out and state a simple uncomprimising message not packaged in a "McCainy we have nothing to fear from Obama" wrapper:

1.  Fiscal sanity
2.  Pro business
3.  A clue about energy policy
4.  We fight our wars to win

On that final point:  That does mean having a strategic willingness to come the hell home if winning is not possible.  I am extremely skeptical about Afghanistan, but I am also concerned about the effect our absence would have on Pakistan.  If a totally lawless Afghanistan was a problem, picture that outcome in a country with 180 million people and nuclear weapons.  We are faced with a range of bad to worse to worst choices in that regard.

Is that person Pawlenty, Christie, Perry, Ryan?  I wish that one of them would light the match.

269

#266

But don't you see that even though he caught the Dems off guard he still was a moderate? He wasn't a conservative, and you can probably count on him being less and less conservative the closer we get to 2016.

270 >>>We lost NV because of the unions in Las Vegas and Reno.

You can keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night but it won't be any more true.  We lost NV because we nominated a deeply disturbing crazy person who had an absolutely atrocious ground game, weirded people out, joked about assassinating politicians, and wilfully insulted Hispanics left and right ("you all look Asian to me!").  Dean Heller wins that race going away.  Sue Lowden, chicken remark and all, wins that race.  Danny Tarkanian, with less personality than dull dishwater, probably wins that race. 

Meanwhile in the real world Sharron Angle, TrueCon warrior, botched it epically. 

271 274

#266

But don't you see that even though he caught the Dems off guard he still was a moderate? He wasn't a conservative, and you can probably count on him being less and less conservative the closer we get to 2016.

Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:52 PM (VoSja)

He's not going to be up for election in 2016

272 1. Fiscal sanity 2. Pro business 3. A clue about energy policy 4. We fight our wars to win Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:52 PM (7utQ2) Sarah Palin, right there.

273 Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 01:36 PM (VoSja) Toomey won PA Sen with 51% Corbett won PA GOV with 54% And Toomey is a pretty friggin conservative guy, and PA is a pretty friggin blue state. Illinois?! That is you test case for this theory? Cripes. We won NV Gov, and lost a Senate race against a slimy, entrenched Majority Leader with deep pockets and a neophyte challenger. The Colorado races were a mess because the CO GOP is a complete and total clusterfark. Tancredo beat the GOP candidate for Senator as a 3rd party candidate. a) Your facts are just wrong, and b) you then fail to account for problems in individual races.

274 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 01:53 PM (hIWe1)

Well I know I am right and you are fucking wrong. We'll see soon anyway.

275 I'm waiting for one person on our side admit that the Bush Doctrine has been an utter failure. And I'm not talking about Ron Paul and his non-interventionist bullshit. I'm talking about this notion of spreading democracy in Islamic nations.
Posted by: lowandslow

Cain just made his announcement bid, and has at least a month to define/detail policies before another GOP Debate.

It's the economy and spending compounded by proof positive that the entire "wars for democracy" propaganda spreads bullshit for destabilization promoting the IMF and globalist "investor" powers backed by the US taxpayers and US Military.

From what I've heard from Cain, he does not sound like another neoconservative like Bush or McCain. But time will tell.

Mark Steyn isn't the only media personality who has been arguing against Bush's Doctrine. Steyn supports Ron Paul's economic platform. But that Mark Steyn would roll over to promote Pawlenty on Hannity's show, particularly on the false presumption that only Pawlenty can rally "conservative" voters to be excited and get behind his GOP campaign with the help of Bachmann VP ticket, shows Steyn's own unwillingness to offend his neoconservative American media peers (NRO) during this unstable period while candidates are just beginning to emerge. Pawlenty is likely the neoconservatives' stand-in alternative to Mitt Romney, the other stand-in for Jeb Bush. Pawlenty might not actually say it, but there's no way that he doesn't think that the Tea Party consists of stupid people who really ought to STFU and respect the global-elitist "betters".

276 >>>Scott Brown won because he caught the Dems with their pants down being overconfident. That will not happen again. He will lose the next election despite crossing the aisle during that disaster of a lame duck session.

It almost seems like you WANT Brown to lose in order to validate your own pique about RINOs or something.  The reality of it is that Brown is going to cruise fairly comfortably to reelection: not only is he well above 50% in every poll right now, more importantly he hasn't drawn a credible challenger (and won't at this point).

This unfortunately proves a point you hate to have proven: that the GOP can win in tough states with the right candidates so long as they play a smart game of departing from GOP orthodoxy on certain votes.  Ask yourself: which of Scott Brown's votes were truly terrible blows to the Republic?  Don't even bother answering, because we both know that the answer is "none of them."  You might not have liked his vote for FinReg, but seriously -- that's the hill you're going to die on?  Most people, including yourself, can't even fucking remember what was in that bill that was supposedly so objectionable. 

277

#276

You are right. He is up for re-election in 2012, another Presidential year. I'd expect him to continue his move to the center.

278 They don't what we're selling, never have and never will. Posted by: lowandslow at May 22, 2011 01:51 PM This is not the case at all. Talk to our military members on the ground there who interact with Afghanis and Iraqis and you know this is not the case. Just as it is not the case with the average citizen in Lebanon and Iran. The political leaders in these nations don't want what we are selling, sure. But the average citizen of these nations -- Afhganistan, Iraq, Iran, etc -- wants what we are selling. They simply do not have the will or support from Western Nations to overthrow their 7th Century death-cult dictators. The problem is not really Muslim nations, but Western Nations. Think about how much different our world today would be if past leaders treated NAZIism, Shintoism and Communism in the same manner as Western leaders treat Islam today. Imagine past leaders saying that NAZIism was not bad, it was just twisted by radicals. Shintoism was not bad, it was just twisted by radicals. Imagine Reagan saying Communism was not bad, it was just twisted by radicals. That is what we are doing today with Totalitarian Islam. It is being allowed to reign, because the West does not have the moral fortitude to call out evil and defeat it.

279 No point in arguing with one-way minds. I suppose you are Romney/Pawlenty all the way.

280

#278

You still continue to ignore the differences between a midterm election and a Presidential year election. It was also a 'cycle' year. Both parties have them. The Dems did in 2006 and Republicans did in 2010.

2006 for Demcrats didn't predict 2010, and 2010 for Republicans won't predict the future either. Under all the turbulence of this elections are pretty stable voter preferences. Map changing demographics onto these preferences, and you have a good idea about how elections are going to turn out.

281 You know, if we play our cards right, we could have 350 moderate GOP members of the House. Boy, they will turn this Country around in no time!

282 No point in arguing with one-way minds.

No kidding. As if unions had nothing to do with results.

283 Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 01:48 PM (hIWe1)

Bullshit, he dropped the Right to Work bill after the Dems in his state fled. And he even lauded their actions.

That was my first red flag.

He needs to stay in Indiana, he doesn't have what it takes to be president.

284 Who's hiding?  When the U.S. is spending its blood and treasure, I have hard to time using the descriptor "shitty."

Thankfully, my perception of reality is not hostage to your difficulties.

Propping up a government and building an imaginary nation in the middle of numerous tribal, ethnic, and religious civil wars - while dependent on the good graces of regional power-brokers Pakistan, Iran, Russia, and China - is the definition of a shitty war. Regardless, and indeed especially, when U.S. troops and money are involved.

285 To me, its not what a candidate says on the campaign trail because its all bull. Obama ran on 20 things he had no intention of doing. Its about learning the ideals of the candidate. Did Herman Cain say something that sounded like he didnt understand the issue.....maybe. Do you think he would do everything in his power to protect Israel if elected President.....absolutely. Thats what is important. Gotcha sound bytes mean nothing at the end of the day. He may have misunderstood the question or even gave a snap answer, but i have total faith that Cain would do the right thing given all the facts, and the time to study them. Herman Cain is the real deal. If he gets marginalized by a few sound bytes then the country is in trouble because we are allowing the media to pick our candidate. Its those candidates that are so "polished" they have scripted answers to every question, that scare me, not the ones who answer from the heart and sometimes misspeak. Im backing Cain as a real Conservative with a record of accomplishment. Im tired of voting on what candidates say, its what they have done and what we think they will do, that matters. I believe Cain would protect Israel at all costs. Dont you? Thats what matters.

286

Cain's Israel comment isn't bad in context.  He made it all up to Israel.  Nothing egregious.

287

You know, if we play our cards right, we could have 350 moderate GOP members of the House.

Boy, they will turn this Country around in no time!

Yeah, dude.  Lets cede 350 seats to the Democrats and fill the remaining 135 seats with True Conservatives.  That'll fix all our problems!

Because you're not terribly bright, let me make this simple for you:  We should run the most conservative candidate who can win.  In South Carolina, that might be Jim DeMint.  In Massachussets, that might be Scott Brown.  For President, it does not include poorly experienced, flawed, unserious candidates like Palin, Cain, or Bachmann.

If we had a well qualified, serious, likeable True Conservative candidate in the race, they'd be worth strong consideration.  Thus far we don't, and wishing it were otherwise doesn't change that fact.

288

 Im tired of voting on what candidates say, its what they have done and what we think they will do, that matters. I believe Cain would protect Israel at all costs. Dont you? Thats what matters.

I'm not sure that Cain could find Israel on a map.

What exactly has he done to demonstrate his conservative credentials in the political arena?  In what way would you not be supporting someone based only on what he says with Cain?

289 >>>What exactly has he done to demonstrate his conservative credentials in the political arena?  In what way would you not be supporting someone based only on what he says with Cain?

Well he does advocate a massive 23% sales tax as well a new welfare program of "prebates" (his term).  If that's not conservative, then what is?

Oh, I'm sorry, my bad: he's black and has no government experience whatsoever, therefore he's a True Conservative Warrior who can convince the country to vote for him and lead us to a new Golden Age.  Because he's not a Washington Insider!!!

290 Romney's new 2012 slogan : "My wife doesn't keep my balls in a jar"

291  Cain is an unserious nitwit.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 22, 2011 01:20 PM (7utQ2)

It got Obama elected, but then the press is on his side, so Cain would be toast. Actually so will anyone not named Hussein Obama.

292 Electable and Experienced.

293 "The hope: Rick Perry jumps in and everybody gravitates to him quickly -- because otherwise Sarah will run, and that won't be good..."

Well said and amen.

294 It was also a 'cycle' year. Both parties have them. The Dems did in 2006 and Republicans did in 2010. 2006 for Demcrats didn't predict 2010, and 2010 for Republicans won't predict the future either.
Posted by: Paper at May 22, 2011 02:00 PM (VoSja)

But did 2006 predict 2008?

295 Support for the unFair Tax is a negative for me on Cain. I spent a week going over that mess reading the book (which was virtually worthless), examining all the background papers and studies, and even doing some sample calculations for the taxes that would be paid.

In the end it would be a huge tax increase for most people except the very poor and the very rich. The real tax rate is 30% and it depends heavily on corporations and employers giving their employees raises based on elimination of the withholding of SS and elimination of corporate taxes. Not likely to happen, at least ot in the short term and intermediate term.

And for people like me who are retired it would be an unmitigated disaster. Not only would I not get any SS benefit but all my savings would get taxed again as "income" at a higher rate than what I paid before.

But, I don't give it a "deal breaker" because its likelihood of passing is about zero.

The only "fair" tax is a flat tax on all income from all sources with no deductions and no exceptions.

296 Sarah Palin looks fine to me as a candidate; don't really see the problem. The race will be a contest between Obama and not-Obama, and we have a decent chance to elect a conservative for the first time since Ronald Reagan. I like Cain, Bachman, Santorum, and West as well. Any of them will get my enthusiastic support including financial support. If we win we win big. If we lose we can go back to whining and complaining that our knight in shining armor didn't show up. We haven't lost yet so stop the complaining and work on rounding up the cavalry.

297 Cain's gaffe won't be long lasting... still on the correct side of the Israeli issue, not like he pissed off the base...

298

282>>>Scott Brown won because he caught the Dems with their pants down being overconfident. That will not happen again. He will lose the next election despite crossing the aisle during that disaster of a lame duck session.

It almost seems like you WANT Brown to lose in order to validate your own pique about RINOs or something. The reality of it is that Brown is going to cruise fairly comfortably to reelection: not only is he well above 50% in every poll right now, more importantly he hasn't drawn a credible challenger (and won't at this point).

 

________

True. A few days ago, Boston Mayor Menino publicly stated that no Democrat can beat Scott Brown. Yet, there are some conservatives with no ties or clue about Massachusetts preciting his demise because he only has a 74% ACU rating.  They have been predicting his demise so long, they look like jackasses and do indeed seek some kind of validation.

 

 

 

299 Right of Return?

I think Cain was referring to policy of refunding the entire purchase price when one of the 2 for 1 pizzas was delivered with a burnt crust.

Lay off the man. This is possibly our second black President. Clean. Articulate...

300 Or, he could be referring to a non-discrimination policy- that he has no problem with Palestinians asking for refunds if there's a problem on the order.

301 I hope ace eats a lot of oysters before Jeff B starts commenting.

Good riddance to Mitch Daniels.  He wasn't presidential material anyway.  I'm pretty sure Cheri Daniels wasn't too anxious to find pictures in the MFM of her Harlequin Romance beefcake who dumped her skanky ass and made her run back home to Mitchie and the kids.  Let him be the king of Hoosierville and off any ballot I have to vote on.

302

I understand Herman Cain put his foot in his mouth on Chris Wallce's show, not understanding what the Pali "right of return" was.

True, but the man knows his pizza!  I'll give him that.

303 DRAFT Paul Ryan.

He's smarter than any of 'em, personable, as positive and sunny-dispositioned as Reagan, and nearly as telegenic, and -- best of all -- is completely unintimidated by the Chicago Gangser-in-Chief. Ryan would so absolutely shred Obama into little smithereens in a debate that I would almost -- almost -- feel sorry for Obama. It would be worth drafting Paul Ryan just to see that. (Although Ryan scares Obama so bad, President Unprecedented might just decide to set a new precedent by not having any presidential debate in 2012.)

Not convinced? Watch and exult:
http://tinyurl.com/ybmedmq

304 Circa (Insert Year Here) at #273:
...
Is that person Pawlenty, Christie, Perry, Ryan?  I wish that one of them would light the match.

I agree with your concerns and your criteria -- but what on earth is Christie doing on your list? The man has got serious weaknesses in the Islamist department.
http://tinyurl.com/3og9jmp

305

Anyone backed by the North East and GOP insiders will lose.  90% of Amerikkk, left and right hate their guts.

So all those hoping for sane, competent and boooorrring jump on the Timmy Plenty jackwagon,  yesterday.

He edged Cain in NH mano a mano.

306 I am so disappointed with Herman Cain. The interview today on Fox was a total drag. He made stupid and major screw ups all over the place, in over his head. Oh well, back to Mitt and Pawlenty...

307 Ignorance is not your friend, especially when coupled with smugness.

Posted by: Jeff B. at May 22, 2011 01:36 PM (hIWe1)

And you would no- even when you back up your assertions, you come across as smug adolescent [who is under the thumb of his mom and girlfriend].

308 know- how did that change to "no"? It couldn't possibly be my typing....

309 Too bad Palin is a woman.  Otherwise we could support her for president. 

310 Getting rid of Beta Male Mitch was a good move. The RINO establishment loves him, he's weak in every way.  Just like Arnold and Newt and Client #9 and Bubba Clinton showed their "slick willie" ways in their various "adventures" and how not even their wife could be trusted ... Beta Male Mitch showed he was ... WEAK WEAK WEAK at the core.

He would not even stand up for himself, why would you think he'd stand up for you?

He's in favor of open borders, cap and trade, a fan of George Soros, (all these btw apply to Herm Cain the AA candidate among Republicans) and made uber-left wing picks to the Indiana Supreme Court. He's a disaster.

Mitt and Pawlenty are the faves of the Beltway insiders, they are going nowhere. The Base HATES HATES HATES them because they refuse to attack Obama. Look at Trump -- he went way up in the polls just by attacking Obama. That got noticed. Palin won't win the nomination because White women HATE HATE HATE her. Perry, or Santorum, or possibly someone yet to enter can build on Trump's model and attack, attack, attack Obama on every front, in every way, while building the volunteer groundwork.

Right now it's a "bid for people" to go out and volunteer. You need people working precincts, and that takes not just money but really, catching fire with the Tea Party people over the internet (that basically on the Left Side was Obama's 2007 model). That means a focus on economics (making gas/food cheaper, a lot cheaper) and anti-Obama in every way.