1 This is about the tenth warning they have issued since Obama took office. I am wondering when they are going to quit warning and start downgrading.

2 Does this include a T-shirt?

3 Ummm... good?

No, really.  I've been saying for at least the last 2 years (more really) that the longer we hold off the inevitible crash, the worse it will be.  It's already going to suck as bad as the Great Depression when it finally hits.  Do we want it to be yet worse?

4 And now back again.

5 Comment at Hot Air: "Together We Dive."

6
No, really.  I've been saying for at least the last 2 years (more really) that the longer we hold off the inevitible crash, the worse it will be.  It's already going to suck as bad as the Great Depression when it finally hits.  Do we want it to be yet worse?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 12:02 PM (8y9MW)

I'd like about 3 more months to lay in food and supplies, please.

7

The idea of getting the economy going again by reducing taxes and regulations never even occurs to these idiots in Washington.

I've stopped wondering if it was ineptitude or deliberate. They're deliberately causing our economy to flounder.

8 Rush called last night's debacle a pep rally, right out of the chute.

Nice. We can still count on Rush.

9 OT - Watching the Medical Center press conference right now, and one of the Doctors is spinning madly to try and justify Obama's, "She opened her eyes for the first time" comment. His spin, "She opened her eyes before but that was in reaction to stimulus." He was asked why she opened her eyes now, he replied, "A stimulus."

10 Boned, we are

11 Tenth warning, Vic?  Wait another couple of weeks, and they'll hire Hans Blix to send a sternly-worded letter, which will be followed with a U.N. resolution and threats of sanctions.

That is the proper order of procedures, right?

12 Moodys should have downgraded us 2 years ago.  They are only delaying the inevitable because they know if this last fig-leaf of American financial stability (our AAA credit rating) goes....there will be only chaos.

13 This is exactly the sort of extremist rhetoric that we need to clamp down on.

14 Bond ratings are only a problem for those with money. 

Article 6 -- Bill of Lefts

Deficits are a part of life, but that is only a problem for those with money.  If the government gives you a credit card for health care or anything, use it as much as you want.  The more you use it, the more free things you can expect to get with it in the future.

15 If we get in the way back machine and go back to the housing bubble crash you will see that one of the groups that took the biggest blame were the ratings agencies who kept awarding the bogus mortgages Triple A ratings long after they hard tuned to garbage. They are institutionally driven to overvalue debt. We have already passed the rubicon. We're already dead, we just haven't fallen down yet.

16 OT again - And this other Doctor (the spinner) is definetly acting like he doesn't like the attention Dr. Rhee has been getting. Probably pissed that Rhee was pointed out personally at Obama's event last night.

17

This coupled with the infamous Barry statement, "We're headed in the right direction," especially after the latest jobless report have got to have the country on the verge of abject giddiness. 

There has to be something wrong with that damn teleprompter.

18
meanwhile...

we'll just sit here and wait for some awesome conservative to come along and easily beat Obama in 2012 because things really suck out there.

19 Related economic news: "U.S. jobless claims jumped to their highest level since October last week while food and energy costs lifted producer prices in December, pointing to headwinds for an economy that has shown fresh vigor."  In other words, a minor setback of increased unemployment and higher costs to a vigorous US economy. 

20

yeah, they keep saying they are going to do it. excellent Hans Brix reference aboive....  :-)

 

21 Posted by: grognard at January 13, 2011 12:04 PM (NS2Mo)

I'm not too worried about that: it'll take a little while from the dropping of Bond Ratings before the bottom really drops out.  Start stocking up now, but you'll still have at least a few weeks before the organic fertilizer hits the rotary ventilator to get squared away.

22 Can we put this in the "Unprecedented!" column? Has any other President managed this?

23 New Tone!

24

"I want to live up to her expectations." Perhaps Big O believes that one of the nine year old girl's expectations was to grow up and see 80 percent of her paycheck go to pay taxes.

But that's not quite right: "I" said the Pres. Always about him...

25

OT:  Some good news, IMO.  Tea Party favorite Herman Cain has assembled an official Presidential exploratory committee.  (Links go to Mr. Cain's website and The Blaze, respectively)

I like Cain.  He's smart, articulate, and he has a solid background in business. 

“People who say that Herman Cain has no chance of winning the nomination for the Republican Party or win the presidency – I simply say thank you. Because all my life I have been in situations where I wasn’t supposed to become VP of Pillsbury, I wasn‘t supposed to be able to turn Godfather’s Pizza around. I wasn’t supposed to succeed in climbing the corporate ladder in corporate America. So to the people who say I don’t have a chance I say, thank you. Because that inspires me.”

26

I've stopped wondering if it was ineptitude or deliberate. They're deliberately causing our economy to flounder.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy

The third and most plausible reason is lust for power, of course. I think most in the top positions in the Federal gov do know that it can't continue but think if they keep it going until they retire, everything's cherry.

*   *   *

It should be obvious by now that the ratings agencies have been defacto an ass-covering oligopoly for Wall Street authorized by the Fed. The reason why Moody's and the 2 other ratings agencies are now making Beaker noises is because they are auditioning to be China's puppets now.

27
Together We Default^tm

28 Okay, so help out somebody who just isn't up on these things. What happens if Moody's, et. al, actually lowers our bond ratings? Does the earth open up and swallow the Fed? Something less dramatic? How does this affect me, the average moron?

29
Maybe Chief French Tickler can bless our bond rating?

30 This is why you should learn to make your very own bacon candles.

31 How much do we have to print, officer, to make this all go away?

32 Barky can give another pedestrian speech which everyone can say is wonderful, and things will get fixed.

That's the standard of Presidential competency now, apparently. To be a fucking Toastmaster.

33

Posted by: MWR at January 13, 2011 12:18 PM (4df7R)

The problem for Herman Cain will be that he doesn't have Harry Reid in his corner.  I'm guessing that it is because he doesn't have light skin and talks with that negro dialect. 

If he's lost Harry...

34 Sarah Palin's at fault because her initials are "S & P".

35 But didn't you hear? Obama gave a great speech last night so now all is forgiven. Blaming him for destroying capitalism is just hate speech. Kumbaya.

36 Nine-year-olds expect ponies; I give you unicorns!

37 This just in: Obamacare Totally Kicked US Bond Ratings' Ass.

38 How does this affect me, the average moron? Posted by: joncelli

BOHICA...no lube.

39 Together We Starve^tm

40

 

MFM: Some how this is all Sarah Palin and the Tea Party's fault!!!!!

41 Moody's is starting to admit in public what every professional bond trader knows in private, funemployment claims are back on the rise, Illinois is raising taxes so severely that even the lefties are complaining, housing prices are still cratering, prices for food and gas are going up ...

But none of that matters because King Barry gave a great speech that really stuck it to Sarah Palin, that's what counts

42

The problem for Herman Cain will be that he doesn't have Harry Reid in his corner.  I'm guessing that it is because he doesn't have light skin and talks with that negro dialect. 

If he's lost Harry...

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at January 13, 2011 12:25 PM (RkRxq)

HAH!  Too true.  But at least there's no question about where he was born! 

43

The story on the unemployment is MSM double speak at its best. Headline "Unemployment unexpectedly rises." First line form story "this happens every year right after Christmas.

Only the MSM could spin something as unexected that "happens every year".

44 "I want to live up to her expectations." That is very much the problem. She was nine years old.

45 >>How does this affect me, the average moron? Very, very badly. Not only are we a country that relies on debt to pay our bills, we have for some time been a country that relies on debt to pay the interest on other bills. Not only do we have enormous unfunded liabilities for things like Soc. Sec., Medicare, etc., that we need to pay with borrowed money, debt, our current spending levels are higher than our income from taxes and the spread is widening which means our debt only grows larger. And the pace is accelerating. If US bonds get downgraded then they have to be priced more aggressively to sell. This means higher interest rates for everything which slows down economic activity which slows down highering, which slows down taxes which means our deficits and debt continue to grow which means a further degradation of our debt rating. Rinse, repeat. There's a lot more to the equation but basically we are circling the bowl and it is going to affect all of us in profound ways.

46 Here's an idea to raise money to pay down the national debt. How about a "Together We Thrive" wet T-shirt contest? Sell tickets, pay-per-view rights, DVDs etc. All proceeds go to pay down the debt. I think it's a winner!

47 "Moody's, S&P Issue Warning To US Over Financial Imagination"

48 We're bored.

49 Nighthawk at 46 - in order to get a good wet t-shirt contest going I they would need to change the shirts from dark blue to white. Dark shirts just don't work for the wet tee look.

50 For all of those on the previous threads who were bemoaning the brilliant political maneuvering of the griefapalooza, and how it all but guaranteed Obama's reelection; this news from the rating agencies coupled with the unemployment numbers will put quite a damper on the celebrations in the White House.

51

But the real question is, how can this be pinned on the Republicans?

52 They've passed on. These bonds are no more. They have ceased to be. They've expired and gone to meet their maker. They're a stiff. Bereft of life, they rest in peace. If you hadn't nailed the AAA ratings to the report they'd be pushing up the daisies. Their economic processes are now history. They're off the twig. They've kicked the bucket, they've shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible!! THESE ARE EX-BONDS!!!

53

How about a "Together We Thrive Grow" wet T-shirt contest?

 

FIFY (IYKWIM)

54 Rush playing the "Gabi opened her eyes..." clip. Jesus, four times?! By, the way, Mr. Memorial MC, I'm sure the victims' families were all there to hear about how your colleague was doing.

55
I wanna bless Meh-hee-co and all the worms in the Earth.

56 OT - Watching the Medical Center press conference right now, and one of the Doctors is spinning madly to try and justify Obama's, "She opened her eyes for the first time" comment. His spin, "She opened her eyes before but that was in reaction to stimulus." He was asked why she opened her eyes now, he replied, "A stimulus."

See? The Stimulus worked!!!

57 in order to get a good wet t-shirt contest going I they would need to change the shirts from dark blue to white. Dark shirts just don't work for the wet tee look. Posted by: Have Blue at January 13, 2011 12:37 PM (mV+es) Yeah, you're right. So it's either allow some "creative tailoring" or go back to the idea of a Federal Lottery.

58 Great speech, Mr. President.

Now, bend over.

59
I wanna bless the power steering fluid that the Jiffy Lube technician put in my Jeep.

60 If US bonds get downgraded then they have to be priced more aggressively to sell. This means higher interest rates for everything which slows down economic activity

Well, doesn't this also create a lot more pressure to reduce federal spending?

If the cost of debt increases you have two choices;

Find more income, ie raise taxes - which would at best be a short term solution.

Or make dramatic spending cuts to reduce or eliminate the amount of new debt you are taking on.

61 See? The Stimulus worked!!!

Posted by: Paul Fuckman at January 13, 2011 12:40 PM (ZQqNG)

I agree.

62 Together We Fail^tm

63

But the real question is, how can this be pinned on the Republicans?

Posted by: Mark Halperin at January 13, 2011 12:38 PM (czcue)

Overall the Democrats have had a fair amount of success on blaming the deficit on Republicans, which is, obviously, bizarre.

Was I upset about the Republican's $250B-$450B deficits? Sure.

But it is small change compared to Obama's $1-$2T deficits. And by definition you do not inherit deficits. Any government could eliminate the deficit in any fiscal year - they just don't want to.

64

Unemployment - up

Foreclosures - skyrocketing

Food prices - up

Debt - at an all time high

 

Now that's change we can believe in

65
I wanna bless my 401K and all the leaves in my yard that my landscaper needs to pick up and get rid of.

66 66 Unemployment - up Foreclosures - skyrocketing Food prices - up Debt - at an all time high Now that's change we can believe in Posted by: TheQuietMan at January 13, 2011 12:52 PM (1Jaio) Don't forget gas prices, headed to a stratosphere near you this summer.

67 >>Well, doesn't this also create a lot more pressure to reduce federal spending? Absolutely. It creates more pressure. But there will be powerful forces fighting against any cuts in spending as there always has been. We won't get serious until we are in the midst of the meltdown and that's always the worst time to try and fix things. California provides a great window into what we are all going to be facing on the national level very soon. CA is both the largest state by population and the largest issuer of debt. They currently have a budget deficit of $25 billion, 12% unemployment, $90 billion in debt obligations and over $500 billion in pension liabilities. Their bond rating has recently been cut to the lost in the nation of A1 /A-. Take a look what they are finally getting around to doing now that the wave has crashed on the beach. They are chopping programs right and left, forcing cities and communities to pay for things the state won't anymore and are facing epic battles with the public sector unions. There tax receipts are down almost 6% this year. They were also the largest recipient of stimulus funds and that well runs dry this summer. People have been ignoring the warning signs on this impending disaster for years just as they did with the housing bubble. The disaster doesn't care, it's coming anyway.

68

Or printing cash.  QE2756.

Posted by: iknowtheleft at January 13, 2011 12:51 PM (G/MYk)

I wonder if China's recent military demonstrations are partially in relation to this?

Overall though, inflation is just another short term solution, unless it is coupled with spending cuts. Essentially a tax the government hopes people will be too dumb to notice.

I have to say though, most of the apolitical people I talk with already know that they are paying more for food. The question is can we make them understand why within the next two years?

69 Well, we keep trying to warn them, but all we get is this stupid answering machine, "I'm sorry, we can't take your call right now 'cuz we're Rockin' The Vote in Tucson! If you'd like to make a non-traceable donation, press 1. Otherwise, press 1."

70 I really, truly wish the rest of the world won't lend us one thin dime anymore. It would be the best thing to ever happen to us. Can anyone think of one reason that it would not be?

71 Absolutely. It creates more pressure. But there will be powerful forces fighting against any cuts in spending as there always has been. We won't get serious until we are in the midst of the meltdown and that's always the worst time to try and fix things.

Indeed, one of the real critical things the Repubs have to work on is changing the default pressure in DC from spending to cutting.

It is far too easy for interest group X to lobby for federal funds and then kick it back to the politicians that got it for them. And the way things are set up, these lobbying groups can work together against the taxpayers instead of being forced to at least compete with each other for federal dollars.

72
Together We Jive^tm

73

Any government could eliminate the deficit in any fiscal year - they just don't want to.

Any government could get the economy going again. This one doesn't want to. Of that there can be no doubt.

It's not like we've never seen this before. There are fiscal laws that describe economic behavior just as there are physical laws that describe physical motion.

This administration is ignoring those fiscal laws, to the detriment of the entire country. History has proven that the first thing that Socialist (or Marxist, or any leftist) governments do is destroy their economies. The unsuing suffering and chaos just makes the job of controlling the populace that much easier. Hungry people don't have much energy.

74 72 I really, truly wish the rest of the world won't lend us one thin dime anymore. It would be the best thing to ever happen to us. Can anyone think of one reason that it would not be? Posted by: CoolCzech at January 13, 2011 12:58 PM (tJjm/) [Raises hand timidly] Because I wouldn't get free stuff, and shit?

75 Can anyone think of one reason that it would not be?

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 13, 2011 12:58 PM (tJjm/)

Well, China is sort of stuck with lending to us.

If we default/inflate it would probably crash their economy also. So they are more or less forced to keep lending to us.

We are really in a sick relationship with them.

76
Together we thrive.

Then that means alone you die. Nice.

Message: you only get to survive in a collectivist society.

77 There's a lot more to the equation but basically we are circling the bowl and it is going to affect all of us in profound ways.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 13, 2011

 

not to mention that a lot of the debts are tied to the CPI; so when that goes up so do the payments out.

78 >>Or printing cash. QE2756. The Fed spent $8 billion this morning to buy US bonds as part of the latest QE. Let that sink in.

79

Read Michael Lewis' The Big Short

S&P and Moody's are DIRECTLY responsible for the housing market and the crash.  They rates teh subprime trances of mortgages as triple fucking A when teh shit mortgages were packaged with even worse looking shit. 

Rating agencies downgrading muni debt means that all of the big players already have their CDS and other hedges in place for the collapse.  Muni bonds will collapse, as MBSs did before, within 6 months.

80 is there any good way to short munis? I want to short West Chester's bonds. They are beyond asinine over here and about to default for sure.

81 Muni bonds will collapse, as MBSs did before, within 6 months. Posted by: s'moron at January 13, 2011 01:01 PM (UaxA0) So will Bambi step in and rescue them?

82

unsuing = ensuing

I feel like shit. And my typing prooves it.

83

Well, China is sort of stuck with lending to us.

If we default/inflate it would probably crash their economy also. So they are more or less forced to keep lending to us.


The next big default isn't US bonds, but the various municipal bonds htat are not backstopped by the fed money presses. 

That chain reaction is going to blow the lid off the Fed, and make any efforts to maintain the national creditworthiness moot.

84 Boned, we are
Sodomized, muchly.

85 Another day of sunshine and unicorn farts. It's time to take up drinking again.

86 "Doomed To Happen," Ace? C'mon. You're just not clever enough. When placing your head, you have to move the sand into a higher pile. That's the trick.

87

S&P and Moody's are DIRECTLY responsible for the housing market and the crash.

Look further back in time, you must. Back, back, to Carter the Jimmeh's grand failed vision of a great society where all could have a home, all they need do was wish it so.

Look further back to the Community Reinvestment Act, young one.

88 Who cares?

Rightwing press and blogs are basking in their morning after glow of Obama-orgasm.

89


Seriously, read the big short.

The bondholders and governments will try to prop up the investors who are losing their shirts.  Problem is, we don't have another trillion to offload to Germany, Saudi, and China.

European banks (read the Krauts) who've invested heavily in American munis as "safe" are either already out or fucked to the wall.  China has not to my knowledge been as exposed to munis as it is to fed debt. I may well be wrong on that.

But the inability of municipalities to mortgage their future to pay their bloated public sector retirement benefits is going to hit HARD.  The only way out of out spiral is to crash.  It is as inevitable as the apple hitting the earth, despite the attempt of the punditry and financial press to keep playing at Xeno's paradox with teh economy (if we're always halfway from a  crash, we can never hit).

Xeno didn't know about Plank distances.  Sooner or later, there is no more "halfway" in teh physical realm.

90 Don't worry, folks; everything's fine. By our calculations, profits per earnings have doubled!

91 "Moody's, S&P Issue Warning To US Over Bond Ratings"

You know, I'm finding their warnings a bit old and tedious. I mean, this sounds just like the hyperbole preceding the collapse of Fannie and Freddie and look how silly that turned out to be. Wait, what?

92

I haven't started my family yet so I've already chosen the country I'm emmigrating to. I've read enough doom posts here and elsewhere to see how things are going.

Is anyone else planning on leaving or am I at the start of a new trend.

93 That's the standard of Presidential competency now, apparently. To be a fucking Toastmaster.
Take my wife... please.

94 i heard a few years ago that the US loosing it's triple A rating was crazy talk... who told me that, oh yeah, MSM

95

Together they connive.

Vim Toot!

96

No Yoda, I know the CRA was the vehicle for lending, but the making of the REAL money was in collecting the shit mortgages into CDOs  and getting default swaps for them.

That's what brought down the financial system.  A housing bubble and crash would have hurt, but nothing like the $1 TRILLION we shunted to Europe and the MidEast to avoid a trade or shooting war.

97 The United States is the world. If the US starts faultering the rest of world will go down the toilet real quick. The Manchild Obama will eventually become the most depised human on the earth. It will happen this year and there is nothing the MFM can do about it. When the US people get hits in the wallet from all sides, our boy POTUS is gone... May not make it to 2012 !!!

98

Overall though, inflation is just another short term solution, unless it is coupled with spending cuts. Essentially a tax the government hopes people will be too dumb to notice.

I have to say though, most of the apolitical people I talk with already know that they are paying more for food. The question is can we make them understand why within the next two years?

Posted by: 18-1

Because we don't have full fledged inflation yet. Food prices and prices in general do not equal inflation. Inflation is growth in the money supply Full stop.

Look at the money supply. It still hasn't recovered to a level anywhere near pre-crash. I don't care if you're using ShadowStats.com versions either.  Mish's money supply charts are show weaker growth.

Even the Fed is having trouble filling the deepening pit the economy became.

As Kevin Williamson points out, the CPI increases aren't so much a reaction to inflation as they are a response to the crappy currency the world is using to buy stuff.

This in no way means that our situation is stable. It could flip overnight.

99

Well according to Reuters, 71% of Americans oppose raising the debt ceiling.  71% you stupid RINOS!!!

 

 

100 Ah, England.

101 >>The next big default isn't US bonds, but the various municipal bonds htat are not backstopped by the fed money presses. Oh yes they are. Ever heard of Build America Bonds? The Fed has been backing certain munis for a few years now. It was all part of the great Obama stimulus which nobody read. One of the most unreported things on the tax compromise at the end of last year was the killing of this nightmare. Republicans should have gotten a lot more credit for that but there a good deal of exposure out there already that the feds, you and me, are on the hook for.

102 Is anyone else planning on leaving or am I at the start of a new trend. Posted by: Anyone else leaving? at January 13, 2011 01:12 PM (GKQDR) Belize sounds nice. Maybe Costa Rica.

103 "Polarizing Right-Wing Discourse Endangering US Bond Ratings!"

104 Together We drink Koolaid^tm

105

I want to short West Chester's bonds. They are beyond asinine over here and about to default for sure.

 

Chest Wester is in trouble?  A very affluent city in affluent Chester County?  WTF! 

(Does it have to do with the University, my beloved alma mater?)  Have they eminent domained all the land so that property tax collections diminshed?  Wha happen?

106

Together we nosedive.

Vim Toot!

107 Got Gold?

108 Together We Thieve^tm

109

Well according to Reuters, 71% of Americans oppose raising the debt ceiling.  71% you stupid RINOS!!!

 

 

Posted by: runningrn at January 13, 2011 01:15 PM (ihSHD)

RINOs don't care what Americans outside 50 miles from the East Coast and north of Alexandria think about anything,

110

TOGETHER WE DRIVE!!!11111!!!

 

Hey Reggie, fetch me my clubs...

111 TOGETHER WE BRIBE!!111111!!

112 Moodys Analysts: "We opened our eyes"

113 108 !! Oh a zillion things! well, first the stupid idiots in boro gov't PAID FOR a brand-new parking garage complex for the college? with debt, of course they also made a brand-new Courthouse right in town, paying a premium for it, again with debt. Most people don't live in town anymore because it is fairly obviously a . . hmm, how to put this? "sanctuary city" it's all renters and not college kids either! sooo . . . the town is trying to squeeze money out of the bar and restaurant owners, killing the store owners, and raising taxes like crazy. asinine!! the boro is doomed. their bonds are going to default, soonest.

114 The problem, my friends, is government obesity.

115 I always wanted to go to Greece. Now I don't have to.  It's here.

116 Is anyone else planning on leaving or am I at the start of a new trend. Absolutely not (well, maybe leave California). We'll be the first to recover. Who's going to stabilize society in Belize in the interregnum? Mexico?

117 Together we Jive!

118
But the inability of municipalities to mortgage their future to pay their bloated public sector retirement benefits is going to hit HARD.  The only way out of out spiral is to crash.

Is this the most likely outcome? Yes. But there is another way - they could kill the public sector benefits packages.

Much like inflation/default/spending cuts, I think we need to be careful to point out there is that last option of actually *really* cutting spending.  Even if people aren't willing to vote for that last option, I would like to make sure that they are aware it was an option as they watch their city/state/country crater.

119 How much did those T Shirts set us back ?   2 -3 million ?

120 How much did those T Shirts set us back ?   2 -3 million ?

Posted by: melvin at January 13, 2011 01:22 PM (3OCZw)

Will there be a T-Shirt for the downgrading of the bonds?

121 O/T: Hey, Grover Norquist says we should pull out of Afghanistan. You remember Grover don't you? The guy tied to the Suhail Khan. What a coincidence that a guy taking money from the Muslim Brotherhood would be pushing for a withdrawal of troops.

122 Is this the most likely outcome? Yes. But there is another way - they could kill the public sector benefits packages. Could municipalities go bankrupt and repudiate the benefits packages as part of restructuring? Or does it work that way for municipalities?

123 Our bonds are getting a B+? That's awesome! ...right?

124

well, first the stupid idiots in boro gov't PAID FOR a brand-new parking garage complex for the college? with debt, of course

 

I'm not surprised.  I saw that there's been quite a bit of new construction going at WCU, and a lot of it was "green".  They tore down the dorm I lived in freshman and sophomore years (Sanderson Hall) last spring, and I know they have been doing a bunch of stuff down at the south campus. 

Money, it grows on trees.  No tax base, no problemo. 

125

Moodys will never downgrade US debt.  Why?  "Nice credit rating agency you have there, shame if something should happen to it."

In May 2010 Al Franken snuck an amendment into the Dodd Financial Reform bill.  It transfers control of credit-rating firms from Wall Street to the government.  The SEC now directly dictates which credit agencies are allowed to evaluate which securities.

Moodys would never dare bite the hand that controls its livelihood.

126 How much did those T Shirts set us back ?   2 -3 million ?

Nah, 10K tops.

127

AAAAck!  Big, fat sock!

128 Will there be a T-Shirt for the downgrading of the bonds? Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 01:24 PM (z1N6a) "Somebody's Economy Went Down the Toilet and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt" ,/i>

129 Together We Go, "La-la-la-la..."

130 111 Got Gold? If the economy gets really bad gold is king. If the economy totally collapses beans and bullets will be king. I really hope all of you are stocking up on ammunition, food, water and medical supplies.

131

How much did those T Shirts set us back ?   2 -3 million ?

Nah, 10K tops.

 

Wouldn't you love to know how many of those were made and who exactly paid for them (what government entity)!  Absoutely disgusting.

132

Is this the most likely outcome? Yes. But there is another way - they could kill the public sector benefits packages.

Does anyone else remember when retirement income amounted to about half of what you made, on average, and not more money than you made?

Maybe a default is the way to go, if it allows a municipality to redo their union retirements plans. If not, then we are well and truly fucked.

133

134

If the economy totally collapses beans and bullets will be king. I really hope all of you are stocking up on ammunition, food, water and medical supplies.

 

Inflation is already hitting food prices.  Gas is going up, and cotton is through the roof.  According to an article in WSJ, high end fashion designers are switching over to rayon (it's about 1/2 the price of cotton).  Funny thing, rayon is made from tree pulp.  They're going to clear cut forests so that Moochelle can have one new designer rayon dress. 

135 >>Could municipalities go bankrupt and repudiate the benefits packages as part of restructuring? Or does it work that way for municipalities? $64 question. In theory there are laws that prevent this from happening pretty much everywhere as far as I know. I practice, well google Pritchard, Alabama. We are truly heading into uncharted waters.

136

Over/under on the start of World War Three?  Anyone?  There are a lot of very nasty people who would love to take advantage of a minimized U.S.

137 Wouldn't you love to know how many of those were made and who exactly paid for them (what government entity)!  Absoutely disgusting.

I'd bet there'll be a "grassroots" push for BHO to turn this into a slogan at future campaign events and (purely coincidentally of course) they will just happen to have plenty of the shirts to distribute.

138

Over/under on the start of World War Three?  Anyone?  There are a lot of very nasty people who would love to take advantage of a minimized U.S.

Posted by: Alex at January 13, 2011 01:33 PM (yO2tH)

Doing that would result in them being minimized rather than us. Safer just to watch.

139

State and local pensions are specifically guaranteed in the constitutions of Illinois, New York, Michigan, Louisiana, Arizona, and Hawaii.

140

City of Vallejo went (still going) through bankruptcy.  Munis can go banko.  States cannot (yet).

141 @143 In IL, so's a balanced budget....bwhaha. Plenty of ways to get around pesky things like constitutions.

142 >>State and local pensions are specifically guaranteed in the constitutions of Illinois, New York, Michigan, Louisiana, Arizona, and Hawaii. They are in Alabama, too. Didn't help the people of Pritchard. When the money's gone, it's gone.

143

Doing that would result in them being minimized rather than us. Safer just to watch.

I have strong doubts about the current crop of nitwits that we have running the show. 

144

I'd bet there'll be a "grassroots" push for BHO to turn this into a slogan at future campaign events and (purely coincidentally of course) they will just happen to have plenty of the shirts to distribute.

 

Look for The Union Label!! Eleventy!

145
  So for those of us who CAN go Galt to the extent needed it's okay. The one thing I see is when your medical needs go past the most basic level, you're boned. Anything more than a cut or scratch, is going to kill you just as dead as the unfortunates who didn't prepare.  That's  a comforting thought.

 Glad I don't live near a large urban center, just the same.

146 Moody's, S&P Issue Warning To US Over Bond Ratings Nielsen's Congratulates US Over TV Ratings, Proposes Weekly Series

147 Together, Cannabalism Seems Likely

148 142

Over/under on the start of World War Three?  Anyone?  There are a lot of very nasty people who would love to take advantage of a minimized U.S.

What makes you think we'd fight?

Barry sleeps next to the white flag, and has the papers drawn up so he becomes El Presidente for Life after the takeover.

149 Together We Starve

150 We are so boned.

151 GOP: Together We Frum

152 Wasn't there a story last week where Bernanke is buying bonds again, monetizing the debt?

153 >Wasn't there a story last week where Bernanke is buying bonds again, monetizing the debt? 80 >>Or printing cash. QE2756. The Fed spent $8 billion this morning to buy US bonds as part of the latest QE. Let that sink in.

154

$64 question.

 

Ha! Ha!  I see what you did there!

155 One day, the check from the government won't come. It won't come for a lot of folks. All at the same time. Be ready.

156 Moody's and S&P ain't gonna downgrade shit unless there's rioting in the streets and/or they collectively decide to spend the next 2 years in front of Congressional committees.

157

Posted by: goldbricker esq at January 13, 2011 01:14 PM (h2t8r)

This is correct.  Surges in energy and food have little or nothing to do with monetary policy.  In any case, the US can't fail to pay its debts unless it chooses to, because those debts are denominated in dollars, of which we have an unlimited supply.  You don't even have to print them - you simply walk to the computer, add some zeros to an account, and it's done.  Money is not stuff any more.  It's not backed by any real thing.  It's a concept - a tool to facilitate exchanges that has no value in and of itself.

Real inflation comes when you have too many dollars chasing too few products.  We're not there.  The unused productive capacity of this country is vast.  Not to mention the idle capacity in China, of which there is plenty.  Let's not forget that they, too, suffered massive job losses in this recession.  The capacity exists for massive additional production - just not a demand for that production. 

If we didn't have idiots running the show around here, we'd have oil spilling forth in abundance, nuclear energy expanding rapidly, and expansion of farming, etc - further enhancing productive capacity.  

Dollars are being piled up to sit unspent in banks all over the world, or evaporating out of the system as deleveraging takes place.  The demand for money is higher than the demand for goods.  For now, getting more money out there does more good than harm.

158 Moody's...hmmmmm.

Aren't they the same guys that held off downgrading the US for years and then threatened that they'd have to do it immediately if the Bush tax cuts were extended?

Who knows. But they're not politically motivated hacks. I can tell you that much.

159

One day, the check from the government won't come. It won't come for a lot of folks. All at the same time. Be ready.

 

And boy, then all the Democrats constituents are going to be really pissed.  As Kratos says, "In the end there will only be chaos."

160 129 Moodys will never downgrade US debt. Why? "Nice credit rating agency you have there, shame if something should happen to it." Great. All that means is, Moodys is about to be supplanted by some Chinese credit outfit. The SEC can then effectively pretty much go fuck itself.

161

@72: "Can anyone think of one reason that it would not be?"

Besides the riots, civil collapse, and possible world war?

162 Well, at least I'm not the one getting fucked this time.

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