1 I demand these issues be resolved without my input.

2 RINO fight!!!!!

3 C'mon Drew body slam the bully. You know you've been wanting to.

4
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

5 The real abyss that yawns before us is the plunging credibility of the debt. We've run up $14.3T on the backs of future taxpayers -- how much can we assume they'll bear?

6

Political reality: Obozo has a veto pen and the R's do not control the senate.

If the d's still had the house - we'd be looking at economic rape.

 

7
Isn't this what Twitter is for?

8 I really appreciate the cogent discussion that I read on this blog.
Such a refreshing change.

9

i was hoping for slightly more profanity.

Also, I didn't see Gabe address the fact that Reid's plan has more cuts than Boehners did

10 You know what would be really interesting?  If we unexpectedly hit the debt ceiling on 30 July and the financial system started a cascading crash all by itself. 

11

So whats the end game? I mean a year or two from now, when it finally sinks in that we'll never pay our debt, and intrest on it continues to grow?

I mean its got to be some kind of global war, maybe some kind of mass die off, zombies etc. Can anyone give some historical context?

12

Deal, interrupted?

13 Drew, I believe the theory is that Senate Republicans lack starch and so if there is no other plan in play, they will fold and vote for Reid's plan. I'm not sure that theory is wrong. A filibuster requires 40; do we have them?

14 DrewM/Jesus 2012.

15

Let's settle this once and for all.

Knife fight, West Side Story rules.

Each person get's a knife and has their hand tied to their adversary's hand.

Whoever survives wins...something..

16 I'm still not sure why either of you think any of plan of Boenher's gets passed. Based on what, exactly? Was it Reid's proclamation of DOA or Obama's leak of a veto? Wish.Casting.

17 Can we agree that JEF is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure?

18 None of the plans cut anything.  No use fighting over any of them.  The only cuts will come when we actually default or maintain spending at current levels.  Eventually that will have to happen, by choice or by lack of creditors.  All the plans out there now will make the problem worse.  They will actually cause immediate large increases in spending, tax raises (probably retroactive just to cash in fully on the "rich") and absolutely no decrease in the debt or deficit.  Spending will never be decreased in any of the scenarios, no matter how "draconian" they sound.

19 You want to negotiate?! My answers don't change. Why do yours?

20
Reid might as well propose a bill with five kajillion dollars in cuts. It's all a fraud.

21 Oh, and I'd like to add there are those of us who don't think August 2nd will be doomsday, and in fact, many Americans will come to the realization that maybe giant government isn't necessary when most of it will be shut down and their lives will continue to function in a normal manner.

22

So whats the end game? I mean a year or two from now, when it finally sinks in that we'll never pay our debt, and intrest on it continues to grow?

I mean its got to be some kind of global war, maybe some kind of mass die off, zombies etc. Can anyone give some historical context?

Closest recent history is probably the German hyper-inflation caused by losing WWI to a bunch of nations that had pauperized themselves to win it.  Starvation, radical politics and coups, and a re-ignition of a war that everybody had thought was over.  Good times, good times.  Sigh.

23 The number should be somewhere between $30 billion and the amount of the debt.

I suspect this is a typo but hey, I like the cut of your jib if 14.3 trillion in cuts this year is within the Overton Window.

24 Gabe throws a right! Now Drew throws a left! It's a slugfest!

25 If Obama doesn't own the final plan, we will be anally rape-raped in 2012

26

Knife fight, West Side Story rules.

Each person get's a knife and has their hand tied to their adversary's hand.

And they all dance around like Barney Frank's boyfriend's hairdresser?

27 And I propose, as conservatives who like to tell the truth, we stop calling these cuts and be honest about them. They are restraints on government growth, but they are not cuts in the factual sense of the word.

28

So whats the end game? I mean a year or two from now, when it finally sinks in that we'll never pay our debt, and intrest on it continues to grow?

I mean its got to be some kind of global war, maybe some kind of mass die off, zombies etc. Can anyone give some historical context?

Posted by: Max Power at July 27, 2011 01:57 PM (q177U)

The end game is going to be when we raise taxes  and make massive cuts. There is no other way out and these plans are just whistling past the grave yard.

I am talking massive cuts too, about 400 billion a year for the next 3 years and raise taxes on everyone, including the 50% that don't pay taxes 1% which would bring in about $100 billion.

That would eliminate the deficit in 3 years after that they could start whittling down the debt.

It won't happen though, no one wants to pay for what we have already borrowed and no one wants to cut what we already gave away.

29 Here is the real problem: we have been lied to so much by the politicians, we have no way of knowing if what they are telling us is a real crisis or not. We know from our own lives that being really far in debt is bad, so that makes that part of it our main concern. The rest of it sounds like them crying wolf - AGAIN. I don't think we are as moved by their cries any more.

30 Can we agree that JEF is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure?

Posted by: yinzer at July 27, 2011 02:00 PM (/Mla1)

 

Not really a failure. The SOB is doing his damnest to destroy the country as best he can.

31 Drew reminds me of the Beaver's father Ward. So reasonable. He does forget that no deal returns us to a balanced budget arrangement with a $14.5 Trillion overhang of debt. Given that, a no deal stops the spending. Winning. Then Obamoa goes all Hugo and threatens Granny's SS check. Winning. Then MSM calls all Republicans mean. Boring - they do this anyways. Republican can remind the country that Pres Present and Dem Congress/Senate never proposed a budget and are not serious players - Winning. So why make a deal? It is really beyond me why we are having this media tango. If Boehner plan achieves anything, it achieves the illusion of a solution, which is what got us to this place originally. Enough already. Potemkim isn't just a village in Russia.

32 Option 3: Don't raise the debt limit.

33

If Obama doesn't own the final plan, we will be anally rape-raped in 2012

------------

/facepalm

Give me the scenario in which Obama owns the plan. C'mon big guy....

34 A vote against Boehner's plan is a vote for Reid's plan.

What is Reid's plan?

35 Let us put our plans in you

36 First Rule of Blog Fight is You Don't Talk About Blog Fight

37 But, I can tell you this: I do NOT like the idea of a special commission who has powers to make decisions. My vote on that is "no"

38 It's a shame that a plan that actually does something isn't in the mix anymore. Boehner's vs. Reid's. Take your pick, revel in the victory.

39 we need ace as a tie breaker

40 Hey, what's the big deal? What's the worst that could happen? A bunch of people in DC lose their jobs and some people on welfare stop getting checks?

/ sorta

41

We're arguing over $1B in cuts for Boehner and nobody knows because it isn't down on paper for Reid.

But

Neither of these are real cuts!!!

Because of the screwy accounting tricks they use in Washington,

If we locked in the budget numbers from FY 2010

The CBO would score it as a $9.5T cut in the budget.

So our real target is any number north of $9.5.

Until they get there, we're still fucked by both sides.

And we're not getting there this year.

So we do nothing.

It's the only rational plan.

42 I demand these issues be resolved without my input. Posted by: Blog President Ace O'Spada at July 27, 2011 01:49 PM (nj1bB) Oh, they will be. That's why I am cutting all of my dick-joke comments by 33% across the board, effective immediately. The sooner you RINOs feel the pain of deprivation, the sooner you'll wake up.

43

I think all of this was lost the moment that The JEF was elected. A majority of your countrymen looked at the radical, unprincipled, and dishonarable scum from Chicago and said; "yes we can!"

Most of the people on this blog are of the productive class who love this country and actually want to strengthen American for future generations. We are in the minority now. It sucks, for sure, but that is where we are.

All of this theater, and that's all it is. None of these "plans" does anything but make things worse. It just puts the pain off for a bit. They are playing a game of musical chairs, and one guess who won't have a seat when the music stops.

 

44 The seventh seal has been opened: MickyDs to put apple slices in all Happy Meals. The end of days is at hand.

Then I beheld a fifth horse and that horse was red as ink.  And on that horse rode an African-American in finely creased trousers.

45 Whoever survives wins...something..longpork

46 With Libya the President has given us a preview of the world without US leadership. He succeeds at fail.

47 Give me the scenario in which Obama owns the plan. C'mon big guy....

Reid's plan.  Now bow before me.

48 Look guys, if don't cut out all this infighting, the other blog is gonna win in 2012!

49 @6: "Political reality: Obozo has a veto pen and the R's do not control the senate.

If the d's still had the house - we'd be looking at economic rape."

Reality reality: Not that long ago, the Rs had the White House, Senate, and House.  They cut nothing and grew the gummint.  Who controls what is effectively irrelevant.  Cuts - massive ones - are coming whether the political will for them exists or not.  The *only* question is whether the cuts will be made voluntarily (and thus with limited pain), or forced by outside factor (and thus with bonus pain).

50 Don't cave don't give up it will look worse before getting better, remember Wisconsin. Got an email from Sen.Bill Nelson Florida wanting feedback regarding debt ceiling. They are feeling the pressure as well, we know some form of Cut Cap and Balance is the right thing to do, those Democratic Sen. know it as well. Keep the pressure on don't give up now and lets hear some more about fast and furious, we know a white house aide was informed about the situation how high does it go?

51 Reid is claiming that the house plan won't get a single Dem vote in the senate. The house should pass whatever the hell they want then adjourn for the august recess.

52

Personally, any plan that contains the words "commision" or "out years" should be an automatic no.

Define the cuts, front load the cuts, make the cuts.

 

53 What is Reid's plan?

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

54
Indifference Meals!_^©

55 Then I beheld a fifth horse and that horse was red as ink.  And on that horse rode a African-American Halfrican-Halfmerican in finely creased trousers.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 27, 2011 02:07 PM (Hx5uv)

 

FIFY

56

Reid's plan.  Now bow before me.

---------

And then the Rs get fucking rolled by their base for simply voting for it.

57

@53:  bingo, esp the last point you make

Also, it took me like a year to realize what your commentor name was really saying.

It's genius

58 They are restraints on government growth, but they are not cuts in the factual sense of the word.

Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011 02:03 PM (wnGI4)

No--you don't understand.  If we used terms that you understood correctly, you might really get mad at us.  If we redefine the terms so they're meaningless in helping you understand what we're actually doing to retain our ruling class status and screwing you over, then we are being just being professional politicians.

59 Either there is a debt ceiling or there isn't.  If you raise it every time you hit it there is no debt ceiling.  It's a fiction devised by Congress to pretend they aren't pissing away all our money and our future money.

If you think you always have to raise it, and that actually matters(which is does not) then why not raise it to 1 quadrillion dollars and be done with it?  We will lose our AAA rating not because of the fictitious debt limit, but because we will have a debt to GDP ratio that is too high.  We already do, in fact, and it will just get worse as long as you allow big-government types like Boner to propose and pass legislation that cuts NOTHING.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

60 Reid is claiming that the house plan won't get a single Dem vote in the senate. I believe him. We have to water this down further...

61

Political reality: Obozo has a veto pen and the R's do not control the senate.

I agree, but if something gets on his desk that means it got bi-partisan support(as it would need it to pass the senate), and Obama would never ever ever veto something that got to his desk, because the alternative would be so damaging to him politically. If he vetoes whatever makes it to his desk, he will then take full political ownership of what comes next.

62 We've run up $14.3T on the backs of future taxpayers -- how much can we assume they'll bear?

Posted by: cthulhu at July 27, 2011 01:54 PM (kaalw)

I wouldn't assume a fucking bit.  I'd drag every deadbeat hippie geezer out of BammyCare holding tanks and sell them as target practice and dog food before I'd prolong their useless lives one goddamn second.

63

Rino Thunderdome - two moderates enter, one moderate leaves.

Well, OK -- let's compromise. Two moderates can leave, but we need to see $2 billion more for high-speed rail.

64 42 we need ace as a tie breaker Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 27, 2011 02:06 PM (Cm66w) I'm waiting for ace to wade in and hit one of them with a folding chair, after which he will do an atomic supplex on the unfortunate victim.

65 The seventh seal has been opened: MickyDs to put apple slices in all Happy Meals. The end of days is at hand.

Posted by: The Hamburglar

 

Fuck you Meryl Streep!

66 My sense is, he'll sign the first thing that passes his desk, and then demogogue about how bad it is and how he's going to fight it the next time.  Like he did on the income tax rates.

67 So, would either plan get this graph back to non-asymptotic growth?

I'm thinking that "not raising the debt limit for ten or more years" is the the better option.

68 I don't understand why Mickey D's just doesn't post a sign on the door that says if you want apple slices, the nearest Whole Foods is five blocks away!

69
McDonalds is changing their signs.

"Over Two Apple Slices Served."

70

@71, Truman, Bingo.

He'll say he had no other option.

71 10You know what would be really interesting? If we unexpectedly hit the debt ceiling on 30 July and the financial system started a cascading crash all by itself.

Posted by: The Law of Unintended Consequences at July 27, 2011 01:57 PM (1+CnU)

 

we are spending over the debt limit as we speak, but nobody talks about that, that would bring up a Constitutional question, and we know that talking about that filthy old rag is a pointless waste of time because dead guys with wigs wrote it or something.

72 72 So, would either plan get this graph back to non-asymptotic growth? I'm thinking that "not raising the debt limit for ten or more years" is the the better option. Posted by: cthulhu at July 27, 2011 02:13 PM (kaalw) Or else you start eating people?

73 I find it bullshit that Reid isnt taking any heat for not allowing bills to be voted on, its one thing for a majority to shoot down a bill, but to just table it, blame should ride on the senate.  Pure theatre is what we have here, and they still think we aren't on to them.

74

So whats the end game? I mean a year or two from now, when it finally sinks in that we'll never pay our debt, and intrest on it continues to grow?

I mean its got to be some kind of global war, maybe some kind of mass die off, zombies etc. Can anyone give some historical context?

Remember WWII and how it pulled us out of the great depression? Ok same war only the nukes are there at the start of it and it is the muzzies vs the rest of the world. The muzzies are nuked out of existence early on - we lose N.Y. city, Washington D.C. and California drops into the ocean during the nuclear exchange. So basically it is a win - win - win for the US.

The remaining parts of the US party like its 1999 after a cockroach from the middle east drags a crippled leg across the armistice papers - thus signing the muzzie surrender.

With most of this country's assholes dead - the remaining population reestablishes the gold standard and the US has another prosperous 200 years.

75 What's funny is that when McD's offered apple slices instead of fries, nobody wanted them.  So they force them on everyone.  Fuck McD's.  They lost me when they ran their "365 Black" race pandering campaign.

76 mc donalds should charge EXTRA for apples they rot faster than fries...

77

The end game is going to be when we raise taxes  and make massive cuts. There is no other way out and these plans are just whistling past the grave yard.

I am talking massive cuts too, about 400 billion a year for the next 3 years and raise taxes on everyone, including the 50% that don't pay taxes 1% which would bring in about $100 billion.

That would eliminate the deficit in 3 years after that they could start whittling down the debt.

It won't happen though, no one wants to pay for what we have already borrowed and no one wants to cut what we already gave away.

Posted by: robtr

 

This also presumes that the additional taxes won't be spent. based upon all evidence to date, this is what will happen.

78
The only reason I'd love to do nothing by Aug 2 is to see Obama either hold granny's check or look like a bluffing boob.

Either way he's fudged.

79 It looks like Boehner's plan may pass the House-- with the necessary revisions-- but it still won't pass the Senate.

80

"What is Reid's plan?"

You'll have to pass the plan, so you can see what's in it.

81
Can you imagine on Aug 3rd Obama coming out vilifying the Republicans for him choosing to deprive Granny of her check and then going to a big b-day party for himself?

82 Captain Hate, There is iron in your words of life and death. Meet me in the parking lot after the Apocalypse.

83 Or else you start eating people?

Posted by: joncelli at July 27, 2011 02:14 PM (RD7QR)

Just like Boehner and Reid -- who says it's "either-or"?

84 Anyone else hoping for a long, tough fight to a draw with a lot of injuries on both sides?

85 With all due respect, this argument between plans rest squarely on the choice of words: "will" versus "should." Lets agree to banish these words from our vocabulary. I am sure Paul Krugman will support this mandate.

86 We better not lose this thing over tiny bullshit stuff.

As the great Sean Connery said in The Rock: "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen."

Mr. Boehner you should strive to go home and fuck the prom queen.  That is all.

87
And then a week later, while Obama is starving poor Granny, he leaves for Martha's Vineyard for two weeks.

From Martha's Vineyard Obama will "feel Granny's pain" and continue to blame Republicans.

This won't happen, of course. But I wish it would because Obama would be toast.

88 _{There is iron in your words of life and death.}

No signed paper can hold the iron. it must come from men.




Juicyfruit.

89 81 What's funny is that when McD's offered apple slices instead of fries, nobody wanted them.  So they force them on everyone.  Fuck McD's.  They lost me when they ran their "365 Black" race pandering campaign.   You mean "I'm lovin' it"?   /Because poor literacy is kewl. 

90 I find it bullshit that Reid isnt taking any heat for not allowing bills to be voted on, its one thing for a majority to shoot down a bill, but to just table it, blame should ride on the senate.  Pure theatre is what we have here, and they still think we aren't on to them.

Posted by: Red Shirt at July 27, 2011 02:15 PM (FIDMq)

Also that barely ambulatory dowager's hump was working with Boehner on a bill when el JEFe gave him different marching orders and all of a sudden he's acting like Boehner's plan is the biggest pile of shit he's ever seen.  Of course it helps him that the salad tossing media will never question him on that.

91 Here's an idea. Let the GOP agree to tax increases... but put them ten years out *after* all the cuts have been enacted. See if the Democrats will go for it when their strategy is turned around them.

92 In 70 years, there will be 300-level polisci courses taught about how America ceased to be.

93 _{Personally, I feel like I'm watching a wild card welterweight fight at the Special Olympics.}


The 2011 Quadriplegic Kickboxing Championships of Yuma, AZ.

94

Remember WWII and how it pulled us out of the great depression? Ok same war only the nukes are there at the start of it and it is the muzzies vs the rest of the world. The muzzies are nuked out of existence early on - we lose N.Y. city, Washington D.C. and California drops into the ocean during the nuclear exchange. So basically it is a win - win - win for the US.

 

So what happens to the Chinese during WWIII?

95 Roll Call: [Report]  on Reid plan getting tweaked http://roll.cl/qm4iT9

96 Personally, I feel like I'm watching a wild card welterweight fight at the Special Olympics. I feel like it's a choreographed WWE bout where I pay the winner all my money and owe the loser just as much.

97 If we are going to conference, might as well go in with a pimp hand, Ryan/Rand bill. Then appoint Pence, Ryan, and Cantor to the conference with Rand and Demint from the Senate - dont even bother meeting until mid-afternoon on Aug 1st.

98

So whats the end game? I mean a year or two from now, when it finally sinks in that we'll never pay our debt, and intrest on it continues to grow?

I mean its got to be some kind of global war, maybe some kind of mass die off, zombies etc. Can anyone give some historical context?

Think Russia post-Soviet Union with a dash of modern day Mexico.  High prices,  lots of poverty, a probably very socialist central government messing with knobs and levers, rampant crime, massive corruption, etc.

Nothing as drastic as Dawn of the Dead, just decades of misery and the end of the US as the dominant power of the world.

99 I don't understand why these fuckers can't get on message and stay on message. Here's all they need to say:

"President Obuttfuck had massive majorities in both houses of Congress for two years, and he failed to get a budget passed. He had the opportunity to lead from the front, but instead of tackling the massive fiscal challenges this nation faced, he chose to kick the can down the road while he rammed through a failed stimulus package, failed bailouts for the automakers, and a monstrous 2500-page abomination of a health care bill that robbed a half-trillion dollars from Medicare, all of which exacerbated this fiscal crisis. Our national debt will surpass the GDP within months, and he has no plan to deal with it. He would rather saddle our children and grandchildren with a crushing fiscal burden they will never escape from than make the tough choices required to get us out of this mess".

This is the message they should be pounding over and over and over until they're blue in the face.

100

To put it into a little perspective for myself... Let's go with the analogy of the family - If the federal government "went bancrupt", but chose to honor it's full and current debt like it's the house payment.  Since most bancruptcies call for a 7 year plan, that would mean we would need to not only cut the spending to be no more than projected revenues, but would need to include slightly over $2 trillion in expense at 0% interest to pay off the debt in that time frame.

Since current revenues are only anticipated at about $2.2 trillion this year, that would only leave $200 billion to run the federal government over the next year.  Then it would only increase by the rate of revenue growth over the next 6-7 years.

The short:  Until DEBT reduction (not deficit) is seriously considered, it's hard to take any of them seriously.

101 OT from Phil Klein:

Obama to announce new fuel economy standards in Friday speech.

102

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 27, 2011 02:21 PM (9hSKh)

Well, that too I guess.  But they actually had/have a website for black people called "365 Black" (I think).  I think it's 365black.com

103
another plan speech?

104 Carney: Bohener 2-step plan would ruin Christmas sales season

WTF?

105 We had the Senate, House, Presidency, and a 5/4 majority on SCOTUS. And here we are.


We get the reins again and don't do shit, we deserve to Balkanize.

106 I miss duels...

107 He's... saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe!!!!

Now can we get back to lez porn on the homepage?

108
So -- did Boehner ever get around to releasing his revised plan today?

When buying a house you take a 30 day escrow, but I guess trillion dollar government borrowing only takes a bit less than 24 hours to peruse...

109 103 Roll Call: [Report]  on Reid plan getting tweaked http://roll.cl/qm4iT9

The CBO report was a mixed bag for Reid; while it found his cuts wanting, the CBO said his plan would cut the deficit deeper and faster than BoehnerÂ’s bill. The Speaker is also rewriting his measure after getting a CBO score that found him falling short of his deficit reduction goals.

Several things.

First, which baseline (or baselines) is the CBO using to score Reid's bill?

Second, where's the text for Reid's bill?  Who has seen it other than Reid and the CBO? 

110 "Nothing as drastic as Dawn of the Dead, just decades of misery and the end of the US as the dominant power of the world." I'm thinking individual states will go it alone or form smaller republics. The poorly managed states and municipalities will be screwed. In an odd twist of karma, those happen to be the ugly blue stains on our electoral maps.

111 Posted by: Congressinal Budgeteer at July 27, 2011 02:10 PM (Qp5Ml)

Obfuscation: It's not just a river in Egypt.

112
My last word... DOOM

113
Boehner's plan will give everyone AIDS.

114 As abhorrent as it is, I'd trade a little tax increase if there were real, actual, bonafide up front spending cuts.  Any cuts taking place after the next election are just bullshit. 

Hell, my dream budget is to freeze spending at pre-tarp levels.   I can't figure out how one time economy savers like tarp, stimulus, QExx even get counted as baseline, anyway.

The House ought to pass a Ryan plan, or something with actual cuts, every day for however long it takes the senate to pass out of their asses.  They could do cat crap and ball ants on Tuesdays just to give the senate an out.

115 109 OT from Phil Klein: Obama to announce new fuel economy standards in Friday speech. Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 02:24 PM (o2lIv) Let me be clear: All you muthas have to walk! Now where's my limo? Got a 3:00 tee time...

116 Truman North:
you are right; we need to pick a year (200 and say budget is this.  oh, and balanced budget amendment.  most people will support both of those, and the cuts would be scored as god only knows how much.

117 112 Carney: Bohener 2-step plan would ruin Christmas sales season WTF? Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 02:25 PM (o2lIv) Carney: Boehner's plan will steal candy canes from poor but cute little girls.

118
Locusts as far as the eye can see. Is that what you want, Mr Speaker?

119

the big spending is not a Democrat strategy, it is the strategy of the real majority Party - the progressive Ruling Class.

we aren't getting anywhere on spending cuts because the leadership of BOTH political parties is fighting us tooth and nail with every weapon they have.

 

crikey, why can't everyone see that yet?

120 Boner's plan kills puppies and kittens.

121 So what happens to the Chinese during WWIII?

They and the Russians nuke each other out of suspicion about what the other is going to do about the rich Persian oil fields.

122

Well, that too I guess.  But they actually had/have a website for black people called "365 Black" (I think).  I think it's 365black.com

So when is Mickey D's going to have 365yellow or 365red or 365brown...so on and so forth to "celebrate" i.e. pander to every group under the sun?

Idiots.  That's even more shameless than the "I'm lovin' it" garbage slogan.

123 Here's an idea. Let the GOP agree to tax increases... but put them ten years out *after* all the cuts have been enacted. See if the Democrats will go for it when their strategy is turned around them.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at July 27, 2011 02:22 PM (PLvLS)

Just make sure that it's put in as a "promise" to raise taxes, like all those cuts that have been "promised" in every budget for the last 30+ years.

124 Harry Red apparently has no plan.

Seriously, I'm done even trying to follow this shit. It's so fucking pointless.

125 Simpering Jeebus in burlap sack. This is like watching two children fight over the armrest in an airplane headed into a mountain.

126
Boner's plan leads to Socialism
- Carney

127 Think Russia post-Soviet Union with a dash of modern day Mexico.  High prices,  lots of poverty, a probably very socialist central government messing with knobs and levers, rampant crime, massive corruption, etc.

So basically the opening of Atlas Shrugs then?

128 Jay Carney: Boehner's Plan will reduce women's breasts by 2 cup sizes.

129 Down goes Gabe, down goes Gabe.

130
Boehner's plan will put us $17T in debt and will give us 9.2% unemployment.

131 If they want tax increases, I want an end to withholding - checks and balances need to restored.

132 @135 Wesley Mouch/Cuffy Meigs 2012!

133 Boehner's plan will make the rent too damn high.

134

Harry Reid's plan is not written down on paper.

Boehner's plan cuts $1B from what we borrow this year.

Sell your gold, buy ammunition.

135
Boehner's plan will turn Cher's daughter into an ugly little man.

136 Aiiiyyeeee!  -149.14 (-1.19%)

137

The number one reason to be against the Reid plan for now--no one has actually seen it:

Go to The Hill's Briefing Room blog and find Dem lawmaker: "Nobody I know" has seen Reid plan

I keep trying to post a tiny url link but it won't let me...

 

Someone needs to highlight loudly and often that Congress keeps passing shit it hasn't read and doesn't understand, only to find out the damange they've done much later.

138 Carney: Boehner's plan will ban internet pron and breast implants.

139 Wolverines!!!!!

140

129 So what happens to the Chinese during WWIII?

They and the Russians nuke each other out of suspicion about what the other is going to do about the rich Persian oil fields.

Okay. Cool. What happens to Africa? This story is getting good.

141 This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper and Krokus.

142 Am I the only one who might be happy with raising the debt ceiling with only attached a repeal of lightbulb ban? .... or defunding Planned Parenthood? .... or nixing Biden's high speed trains? .... or cancelling the Public Broadcasting program? I just want something concrete to hang our hat on. These budget resolutions are so vague and seem to avoid actual, specific programs. I want to see the dems cry when one of their sacred cows gets slaughtered . Plus, I have expect Obama to be so petty as to veto a bill with any of those things cut.

143 Carney: Boehner's Plan will break the Tilta-Whirl.

144 The only place you can get to from here is DOOM!

Our rulers will be safe in walled compounds, while we serfs fight for scraps using wheelbarrows full of credit cards.

145 They told me if I ordered Apple iSlices in my Happy Meal I'd grow up to have big guns and no sense of fashion, - and they were right!

146 This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper and Krokus.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST

 

Don't discount us. Our amps are perfectly suited for this level of spending.

147 Okay. Cool. What happens to Africa? This story is getting good.

Africa? Total chaos, the end days, a total breakdown of any civil authority, slaughter as gangs and warlords run amok, war, exploitation, violence and suffering beyond measure...

In other words Tuesday.

148 _{Our rulers will be safe in walled compounds, while we serfs fight for scraps using wheelbarrows full of credit cards.}

I'm using my credit cards to buy ladders and ammo.

149 ...in fact, many Americans will come to the realization that maybe giant government isn't necessary when most of it will be shut down and their lives will continue to function in a normal manner.
Posted by: Rich

And this scares the hell out of the donks. Let their worthless base see that they can get along fine when the giant teat "shuts down", and they "may" lose a few of them. (Maybe. They're not that smart to begin with...)

150 Obama to announce new fuel economy standards in Friday speech.

Again? Didn't the EPA already fuck around with those last year?

151 None of the plans cut anything.  No use fighting over any of them.  The only cuts will come when we actually default or maintain spending at current levels.  Eventually that will have to happen, by choice or by lack of creditors.  All the plans out there now will make the problem worse.  They will actually cause immediate large increases in spending, tax raises (probably retroactive just to cash in fully on the "rich") and absolutely no decrease in the debt or deficit.  Spending will never be decreased in any of the scenarios, no matter how "draconian" they sound.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at July 27, 2011 02:00 PM (71LDo)

--------

dfbaskwill has it exactly right. Let's please stop the charade that either plan will substantively address the debt level. Boehners pathetic limp dick spending "cut" proposal is exhibit A to that point

152 At this point - I'd give the Dims everything they want in exchange for the resignations of John Boehner and Mitch McConnell.

153

@102: "So what happens to the Chinese during WWIII?"

Per John Milius, 600 million of them survive, and will be screaming.

154 I'm using my credit cards to buy ladders and ammo.
Use them while you got them!

155 135, or a mix of Brazil for the elites and something out of Mona Lisa Overdrive for the rest of us - pockets of comfort based on ethnic or other indentification, countryboys gone country, and irrelevant government with a reduced span-of-control.

156 Reid: No Dems Will Support Boehner Plan

Also, John Bolton is backing Boehner.

157 My prediction for what is going to happen in the near term is this.

We will pass some POS and raise the debt ceiling. There will still be no T-Bill takers at zero percent. Taxcheat Timmy will do QE-III (or call it something else but does the same thing).

They will blame the Republican's "political posturing" for causing the need. The press will tout exactly what they say word for word straight from the talking point papers.

Republicans lose, the country loses, and when the collapse come even the 53% lose.

158 I hate how this is going to turn out for the country.

When the Democrats win, the Democrats get everything they want.

When the Republicans win, the Democrats get everything they want.

159 So what's the latest from Carney and the other clowns? they take shots at Boehners plan, and then grudgingly sign on? Win-win for them. They placate their base, make the appearance of compromise and then make Boehner the scapegoat when/if the debt rating is downgraded (WHICH AGAIN IS SEPERATE FROM THE DEBT CEILING PROBLEMS)

160 Obama to announce new fuel economy standards in Friday speech.

Again? Didn't the EPA already fuck around with those last year?

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 27, 2011 02:41 PM (zC6YH)

I posted a link on that the other day in one of the head line threads. In 2007 the Democrat Congress increased the CAFE standards. Now Obama wants to increase them again to an insane amount that is basically impossible to meet w/o going to those stupid POS "smart cars".

He plans to do it by executive fiat.

Congress will do nothing and let him get away with it, depending on one of the automakers to sue.

Yeah, forget that.

161

@152: "This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper and Krokus."

Will Krokus be playing Midnight Maniac?

162 This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper and Krokus. Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST We will not be ignored.

163 Obamacare is still coming at the economy like a tidal wave.  Even if we get a deal today to our liking, and win the WH, the Senate and hold the house, we will not be able to get past the Democratic filibuster in the Senate to get repeal.  That is Doom long term.

The Debt Ceiling is the only leverage we have that is strong enough to trade for repeal.

164 Again Drew swallows the enemy rhetoric whole.  This is not a crisis of the GOP's making.  Everyone had a hand in creating the debt.  The debt is the crisis.. not the debt ceiling.  Not raising the debt ceiling is rational, common sense, economically sound and widely supported. 

For God's sake if our own guys can't even speak plainly without swallowing all of the wrong and boneheaded assumptions the press bandies about then we are doomed.  The people who want to raise the limit are the ones who have to make a case that we will be better off if they get their way.  It isn't the other way around.  Yeah, to a junkie the thought of not putting a needle in their arm may seem like a crisis but really the opposite is true.  Their body is traumatized every time they do it and they had damn well better stop if they want to continue drawing breath.

We can't argue starting with the other side's assumptions.  That is how we got in this mess.

165 I'm going to suggest something different.  I'm sure you'll all come down on me like a ton of bricks but here goes.  Yesterday someone posted that if you earmark some of your "extra money" (I'm still wondering who has that) for paying down the debt, it isn't clear that it actually pays down the debt.  So maybe the republicans ought to introduce a bill that says that they are opening a legitimate, only to pay down the debt account, for the American people that no one can touch except the person in charge of literally taking the money and paying down the debt.  Maybe have a dem elder statesman and a republican elder statesman and that guy who used to be secretary of state with the mustache.  (everyone lib/dem/rep/conservative trusts him).

Anyway, then boehner can say that the nation has decided to retire it's debt and engage the nation in doing that.  Have bake sales, are washes, free concerts, raffles, penny auctions, luncheons, anything to generate money to go into that account and 'pay down the debt". 
 
go ahead. laugh, but heck nothing else has worked.  They are at each other's throats, the American people by poll think they are all crooks, why not think out of the box and try to get the spirit of this country going again.  Heck you could shame big corporations into giving to raffles.  Who wouldn't buy a chance to win a 60 inch big screen tv or heck, a house from one of the home builders.  Point is, when nothing is working, change the damn conversation, change the direction, don't keep driving toward the damn cliff.

166

@152: "This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper and Krokus."

I'm assuming the judges would be drawn from Y&T and Dokken?

167

@178: "We can't argue starting with the other side's assumptions."

That's all we ever do.  Other than outright surrender, it is our only tactic.  Seems to work well enough....

168 175 ...And basically, Bolton's just supporting a vote in the House on it.  Reid just told us what will happen in the Senate.

I actually didn't know Bolton closely followed such disputes, so that's why I posted it. As for Reid, some in the chattering class thought he might change his tune on Boehner's plan but he unsurprisingly hasn't. Neither has the Admin.

169 Is that gabe talking to rush now?

170 OMG

171

So maybe the republicans ought to introduce a bill that says that they are opening a legitimate, only to pay down the debt account, for the American people that no one can touch except the person in charge of literally taking the money and paying down the debt. 

Posted by: curious at July 27, 2011 02:49 PM (k1rwm)

--

That idea worked so well with the "Social Security Lockbox", didn't it?

172 @drudge;

Clyburn and a group of House Democrats are urging President Barack Obama to invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling if Congress canÂ’t come up with a satisfactory plan before the Tuesday deadline.

Clyburn, the third-ranking House Democrat, said Wednesday that if the president is delivered a bill to raise the debt ceiling  for only a short period of time, he should instead veto it and turn to the phrase in the Constitution that says the validity of the U.S. governmentÂ’s debt “shall not be questioned.”

173 I've been behind Boehner up until this nonsense. 

I understand with just a couple of months left in the FY, we aren't getting much cut in it.  I further understand that the big savings in baseline budgeting always come in the out years, because effects are multiplied.

BUT $1 billion doesn't make it.  Obama is spending that much every six hours.  Even at this late time, we can do $10 billion this year and $50-100 bil next, and this will help with the total.

AND we MUST have some sort of cap to enforce the spending levels.

FINALLY, I will NEVER support any commission or committee or other DC creation after all the previous incarnations failed to cut a damned penny.  There is only one scenario this approach would work, and I doubt it would pass the Senate:

1. Allow Boehner, Pelosi, Reid, and McConnell to name three members each.
2. Build an 8-wide gallows.
3. Hang Pelosi, Reid, and all of their appointees.
4.  Allow the remaining members to make the cuts.

174 This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper and Krokus.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST

We will not be ignored.

Posted by: Rammstein

 

Our legacy wil not be denied.

175 let's give the gov't more money! yippeeeeeee! 

176 152 This is like watching the finals of Battle of The Bands and it's between Grim Reaper Keel and Krokus Helix.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 27, 2011 02:36 PM (lbo6/)

FIFY

177 185

So maybe the republicans ought to introduce a bill that says that they are opening a legitimate, only to pay down the debt account, for the American people that no one can touch except the person in charge of literally taking the money and paying down the debt. 

Posted by: curious at July 27, 2011 02:49 PM (k1rwm)

--

That idea worked so well with the "Social Security Lockbox", didn't it?

Posted by: Mook at July 27, 2011 02:58 PM (eP5IM)

I don't know, I keep hearing that the dems are able to fund stuff like obamacare and it's a lock and no one, not even future congresses can change it.  So, if they can do it for obamacare and other dem pet projects, why couldn't they do it with this.

Heck they can have Sarah Palin and donald Trump come out and announce they are doing it....

But, this isn't working, the tea party electees are being slaughtered by the dems and by their own republicans, which isn't fair, so maybe change the damn tone and think of something else.

178 If Blue Murder hadn't taken us out in the first round, you'd be sorry, Charlie!

179 Hannity just played a clip of harry reid saying boehner is catering to the tea paryy and that's not the American people.  what?  The tea party is the American people. 

and chuckie mad nasty comments about the tea party freshman.

Guess the tea party has them just a slight bit upset maybe?

btw, I don't think they vote yes on either plan.

Go back to the drawing board and come up with another plan...period.

180 All this talk of compromise yet again and hope we win in 2012 has a few problems.

One: It assumes that we can kick this can one more time and get away with it.  I doubt that will work.  Meaning we act now or not at all.  Yes the odds are against us.  But this is the cards we have been dealt.

Two: It assumes things will be a lot better in 2013.  I don't think so.  Too many states have open primaries and Obama isn't likely to have a serious primary challenge.  That means the Dems will pick us a RINO; so heads they win and tails they mostly win.  And it is a sure bet that the same people saying wait will still say that because we won't have the sixty senators needed to get past a filibuster.

All tax and spending must originate in the House so even though it is the only part of the government we control it is the only one that matters.  Besides, if the House passes a bill mandating interest, military salaries and social security gets paid first, along with an OK to issue new bonds as part of rolling over expiring notes the government will only shut down and not default.  The Senate would be hard pressed to refuse and the Kenyan Idiot wouldn't dare veto.  At that point it is almost entirely people who wouldn't vote Republican in a million years who get hurt in a shutdown so time would be on our side.

Obama and Reid know this.

Then there is the Final Option.  Go all in on Cut Cap and Balance.   The bill has only been tabled in the Senate, meaning a simple majority vote can bring it back up for debate.  So find four D Senators who are up for reelection and aren't retiring and do whatever it takes.  Promise that they won't be able to buy TV time because our forces are going to prebuy every frickin minute for sale right now if they don't play ball.  I'm talking local car dealers will be squealing like pigs because there won't be one single spot available.  That leaves the filibuster and that isn't a problem either if you have balls.  Let them, only make them do the real thing.  How long can they last with the spectacle of an impending (or actual) shutdown and every night the news opens with some D with a piss bottle strapped to his leg reading the phone directory?  And again, if you ram it through with 'bipartisan' support Obama won't have the stones to veto it.

And forget the ratings agencies, if we actually win this thing any downgrade will be temporary and long forgotten come election day.  Lose and we are going to get downgraded regardless of how we end up selling out.

The only compromise is that we would probably have to send a modified CCB bill that only required a roll call vote on the BBA because we probably can't muster the 2/3 needed to pass it, especially during the sort of scorched earth campaign I'm proposing.  But that would be a good bargain because we could slaughter every NO vote come election day and try again in '13.

181

If they can change the language (revenue = tax) maybe we need to use FREEZE. When the dems scream it cuts 9 trillion just tell them, thats impossible, it is a freeze, its not going up or down. Its the ultimate in fairness and coooompromise that Obama wants.

182 Yes choose between the major fraud asnd the noty so massive fraud.

183 Drew 1. Gabe 0.

184

Nothing in these conversations reflect any reality. what's the point? There is no budget.  Government spending is based upon fantasy projections in accordance with laws written by previous  democrat/rhino congresses with language that means the opposite of what it means to decent, honest people. 

Screw it.  Just raise the Debt Ceiling eighty two quadrillion, nine hundred elevety hundred trillion dollars.  That will get things past the 2012 elections and have room to continue borrowing when hyperinflation kicks in and the 500 Million dollar bill buys a slushee with a half off coupon.

185 53@6: "Political reality: Obozo has a veto pen and the R's do not control the senate.

If the d's still had the house - we'd be looking at economic rape."

Reality reality: Not that long ago, the Rs had the White House, Senate, and House. They cut nothing and grew the gummint. Who controls what is effectively irrelevant. Cuts - massive ones - are coming whether the political will for them exists or not. The *only* question is whether the cuts will be made voluntarily (and thus with limited pain), or forced by outside factor (and thus with bonus pain).

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at July 27, 2011 02:08 PM (xy9wk)

Political reality:  Don't raise the debt ceiling and something will be cut.  The House has the upper hand.  Take away the credit card unless there are some changing of ways..

186

Both "plans" suck.  2.0 versions of both will suck. 

Even if we had a brillant plan . . .that EVERYONE agreed on . . .

we don't have the ability to follow even a brillant plan.

Buy food, arable land, guns & ammo, hand tools, dig a well etc.

187 "The reality is the House can pass Boehner and the Senate can pass Reid and then they will conference."

If they're just going to compromise in conference, I'd rather they start from the CCB (since the House has already passed it and all) position than from Boehner's.

188 I would like to say  I LOVE THE the professionalism and the respect. You guys will be fine, I HOPE. In all honesty this discussion is why I came to LOVE THIS BLOG. Not only the personalities, the dixsusion, and the humor. I think ACE is usually spot on, he keeps my choler in check. Also i love the other bloggers mix, Dave of texas u a good militay man. In other words, I hope nobody leaves teh blog. Everybody contributes and I love U all. This GDMFING debate is not worth a friendship. This post brought to you by HOOTERS AND BUDWEISER.

189 We have a saying here in Texas, perhaps you've heard it.