1 I'm in line! I'm in line!

2
2011: The Endorsening

3 Oh, for fuck's sake.

4 1 billion dollars IS a lot of money.  I know I don't have it. 

5 Here we go again. You did not hear this from me.

6 The lets spend more, anyway plan.

Fuck this for a bunch of monkeys.

7 Good.

Get it off the table and focus on taking down the Marxist in the Oval Office.

8 What's in the plan that's being cut or eliminated? Anything I have heard of? Can I download the plan and read it myself?

9

Fucking Nordquist.

 

If I trusted any of these filthy statists, I would start to wonder what is wrong with us.

10 Oh, for fuck's sake.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 27, 2011 05:58 PM (lbo6/)

This.

11

“It’s not a perfect plan, but it is the best plan that we have available,”

 

Dude, it sucks worse than CCB did

12

Considering our petulant far left king's previous behavior and lies, there is no guarantee king obama will sign it.

 

13 All right-thinking comrades endorse triumph and the glory of Ingsoc! Victory Gin rations for all Outer Party members! He says it's just the first skirmish in a longer war. War. It's perpetual. And it's fabulous.

14

Obama will take credit for being a budget cutter. *howl*

 

15 So....how does everybody like their toast?

16 Forget about Grover.  I want to know what Oscar the Grouch thinks about this.

17 That article makes me want to puke. The fact that Christine Todd Whitman is quoted as some kind of authority is amazing. In fact the only intelligent statement is from a liberal:

“The job of speaker takes guts - John Boehner hasn’t demonstrated that he has any.”

This is an excellent demonstration of the power of the establishment. Until another 100 of these congressmen and 20 senators are voted out of office and replaced by hard-line fiscal conservatives, we will continue to be subjected to the gradual destruction of our economy and way of life.

18

It's not about victory - it's about meaningless gestures to kick the can down the road. Until Obama is gone there isn't much else anyone can do.

 

19 I'm calling the plan the "Snapple Plan." You never know what's in it, only that it's made of the best stuff.

20 So....how does everybody like their toast? Apparently, with lots of milque.

21 No absolution for Grover. Those who oppose me belong on an insane asylum. Squishes and traitors all.

22 Actually, default may be the only way to save the country.

23 Signed, Sealed, Delivered, I'm Yours.

24 assholes.......

25 Fuck 'em. If anybody is surprised that a third party rises, don't blame me for saying I told you so.

I turned several squish moderate Obama voting friends to vote GOP last year. I'm not gonna break ranks, but I'm not going to be boosting the GOP in conversation in any meaningful way. Second term Obama, here we come.

On the plus side, Obama will be in charge when the DOOM hits, so at least we can look forward to that.

26 I mean a real default.  Where nobody gets paid.

27 We have always been at war with the debt ceiling.

28 Considering our petulant far left king's previous behavior and lies, there is no guarantee king obama will sign it.

Point taken but, OTOH, I don't think King Putt has the spine to veto it if it gets through the Senate. He'll vote 'present' by complaining about it but won't veto.

29 I sense a presence... any minute Newt Gingrich will weigh in on this plan and we will learn the real story: that you can buy his DVD boxed sets online.

30 On the plus side, Obama will be in charge when the DOOM hits, so at least we can look forward to that.

Posted by: mugiwara at July 27, 2011 06:04 PM (KI/Ch)

You know it will be Bush's fault too.

31 cut all entitlements because no one is entitled to anything

32 Jackpot! I was happy with my Ferrari but now I can supplement it with a Bugatti.

Recession? Never heard of it.

33 Grover Norquist is another classic RINO who's been a constant thorn in our side and should be primaried out of Congress immediately.

34 Dude, it sucks worse than CCB did.

Honest question: How does the House GOP get something you like through the Senate and then signed by Obama?

35 22 No absolution for Grover. Those who oppose me belong on an insane asylum. Squishes and traitors all.
Posted by: Erick Egomaniac Erickson at July 27, 2011 06:04 PM (8ds5P)

Youse want me ta pull da trigger on dese RINOs, boss?

36 I've been kicked down the road so many times I look like a tin-plated cauliflower.

37 So, they've decided.

Please call me tonight RNC, please please.

38 Serious Cat: "Can I download the plan and read it myself?"

Are you, ahem, serious?

39

Shit.

Time to drink heavily...

40 They have to pass something and get it on Obama's desk. If we hit the debt ceiling and no deal is in place, the markets will panic (they're already starting to panic a little - Dow was down 1.5% today) and we'll see a replay of the crash of 2008. And the GOP will end up getting most of the blame.

41 Yes this is the first skirmish. Which the GOP has "solved" by running with their tails between their legs.

42 It is amazing to me that this whole time the repubs negotiated with themselves and the dems just sat back and watched the car crash.  I heard they had caviar and champagne in their comfy chairs too.

43 So Politico, the NYT of the internet, say Grover Norquest is a "key figure" in the conservative movement eh. Does he also look for creased pants?

Why is it that I never heard of this "key figure" and I have been into conservative politics for decades?

44 I have not yet begun to surrender!

45 http://tinyurl.com/4y2plxg

Maybe Jennifer Rubin has a point.  And hey, we get to do it all again next year.  Yay!!

46 If you like your out of control government spending you can keep your out of control government spending.

47 Posted by: Moe Lane at July 27, 2011 06:07 PM

Moe's actually kept his nose out of this one.  It's only Erickson who's been the total jackass in this fight, which is why I'm glad his stupid gambit with Jim Jordan failed so spectacularly.  He needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

48 Just put it on my Players Club card

49 Calm down people. I've updated the plan and now we'll save negative 230 billion in the first year (that's a big number!) and cut a qazillion in year 10.  What more could want?

50 S&P and the other rating agencies want to see that we can control the growth of the debt so that eventual economic growth -- an the increasing tax revenues growth will provide -- will cause the gap (deficit) to grow more slowly, and make the overall debt a smaller portion of the GDP. The Boehner plan is not as far as I would want to go, because I would like to see spending cut back to roughly 2008 levels and some federal departments closed, but it's probably as well as we're gonna do with a Democrat Senate, the JEF we have as President, and the ever so supportive-to-the-left press.

51 On the plus side, Obama will be in charge when the DOOM hits, so at least we can look forward to that.

Posted by: mugiwara at July 27, 2011 06:04 PM (KI/Ch)

You know it will be Bush's fault too.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at July 27, 2011 06:06 PM (yQWNf)

I think it will be a close shave.

52 _{Oh, for fuck's sake.}

_{Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 27, 2011 05:58 PM (lbo6/)}

_This.


This.


Fuck Lucy and her football.

53 So just to be clear. If the Congress actually passes Boehner's plan and Obama signs it, but we still get our credit downgraded, the economy still sucks, and unemployment continues to rise, the MFM will blame Obama, right?

54


Calling these folks who support the latest "Plan"  RINOs is just plain incorrect.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

They are party men, and work in the interests of their party.  We are at a point beyond party.  Ideology and fiscal prudence are teh great dividing lines of our nation now, and the producers of wealth are outnumbered.  Good night sweet republic.  May flocks of angels guide us to our rest..

55 But see, the cunning plan you crackaz are too shortsighted to see here is for the GOP to make Obama come back begging again and again for short-term ceiling hikes, and then dramatically cave like this every single time, until every fiscal con in America is completely alienated from the Republicans, and then they'll lose the House.

Then they can get down to the serious business of repealing Obamacare.

Long game!

56

Obama's own economic commission says the government MUST REFORM ENTITLEMENTS.

The welfare state democrats will never do this.

K-man is right. If the nation is to be saved - 2012 baby. Stealth tea party. Drive the left crazy and save the nation. No more can kicking.

 

57 If you like your out of control government spending you can keep your out of control government spending.

Posted by: John Boehner at July 27, 2011 06:11 PM (AD+C5)

It will reduce your private sector costs by 3000%.

58 Until another 100 of these congressmen and 20 senators are voted out of office and replaced by hard-line fiscal conservatives, we will continue to be subjected to the gradual destruction of our economy and way of life.

Is this really news to you? The people to blame for all this are average Americans, who fell asleep at the switch. Political parties can run any kind of circus clown they want; it's the electorate that puts them in office.

Did you really think that electing less than 100 Tea Party congressmen in 2010 was going to solve the problems we face? This is going to take several election cycles to sort out.

I don't get the rage being expressed all over the conservative blogosphere. You're dealing with an entrenched culture in Washington, and almost everyone there is dysfunctional and corrupt. Why do you keep expecting them to do the right thing?

Instead of getting angry, replace them.

59 Hell is compromising with other people.

60 57


Calling these folks who support the latest "Plan"  RINOs is just plain incorrect.

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

They are party men, and work in the interests of their party.  We are at a point beyond party.  Ideology and fiscal prudence are teh great dividing lines of our nation now, and the producers of wealth are outnumbered.  Good night sweet republic.  May flocks of angels guide us to our rest..

Posted by: John Adams at July 27, 2011 06:13 PM (UaxA0)

John Adams?  RINO.

61 Remember we can ADD 800 billion plus in new spending through a so-called stimulus* in one shot but the MOST, ABSOLUTE MOST the House GOP can think of cutting in a year is 22 billion.

I'm not saying a bigger cut could pass the Senate but we shouldn't be guessing what they'll accept. We should come in crazy high so when we deal, we have somewhere to move.

22 billion is the top, it's not going up from this point.

We've gone through all of this to save at most 22 billion and get two votes.

Smell the awesome!

*Yes, I know it wasn't the GOP who passed it but look at the assumptions...$800 billion in new spending is within the realm of possible. Cutting more than $22 billion? Can't be done. Against the laws of man and nature or something.

Until that kind of built in bias for spending is changed within the American electorate, this is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

62 Need to add: We then use the election of 2012 to replace Barry and take back the Senate while increasing out hold on the House, then use the next few months to educate the public as to why the Federal government has to be cut down in size, and why cutting federal expenditures to 2008 levels -- plus a reasonable rate of inflation, is the way to go.

63 Best part is, this $250.00 being cut this year is going to put us all back to work!

_Huzzah.

64 we'll see a replay of the crash of 2008. And the GOP will end up getting most of the blame.

Cuts in government spending will always panic the markets. The deficit is mistakenly seen as free GDP, so correcting it necessarily means less GDP, hence a market downturn.
If we had balanced the budget in 2008 (not that anyone considered it) when the deficit was a third what it is now, the GDP drop would have been 3-4% rather than the 11% staring at us now. Back during the Bush years, it would have been negligible.
So I ask the brave supporters of the blank check now given to Barack Obama, when are you willing to balance the budget? When doing so tanks GDP 12%? 15%? 20%?
If the answer is never, than we need to understand clearly that we are not on the same team and plan accordingly.

65

Hi RINOS what up?

66 We're not.  Never were.  They've told us many, many, many times.  But they've also told us we're not going to default on a number of occasions.  So, you see, they don't even believe their own hype.  Why should we?  Shut it down.

Shutting it down backfired on the GOP in 1995. Why would this be any different?

67 On the plus side, Obama will be in charge when the DOOM hits, so at least we can look forward to that. Posted by: mugiwara at July 27, 2011 06:04 PM (KI/Ch) Using our budget? Yes, I'm sure you're right.

68

Man, am I fargin' frustrated and starting to feel the hopelessness of my situation.  I can't divorce my government, but being married to this bitch is unbearable.

This is like the worst imaginable version of "Housewives From Whogivesafuckwhere," in which I get to pay for some insane bitch's desire to buy everyfuckingthing and no matter what.   I will never be able to earn enough to do it.  Oh well, if I get the bitch preggers a few times we can sell our kids into slavery to pay the interest on credit cards 1 through 7.  I think I'm fucked on all the credit cards that were used for silicone and botox though.

I think our new national motto should be:  Our Government - You Chance to Serve a High Maintenance, High-Strung, Lazy, Worthless Bitch.

69 So Grover's down with it.  What's the Cookie Monster's position?

70 Instead of getting angry, replace them.

Hee Hee, good one!

71 actually maybe we should not call them RINOs any more since they seem to be the status quo........

72 Every Republican who votes for this piece of garbage is a traitor to idea of a Conservative Republican Party.

The base has no more stomach to swallow these sh*t sandwiches. Voting for the Speaker's plan guarantees a Democrat sweep in 2012.

73 mugiwara: "[...inevitable scenario snipped...] the MFM will blame Obama, right?"

That's exactly what I was thinking. Now you see the brilliance of my three-dimensional chess.

74

I think our new national motto should be:  Our Government - You Chance to Serve a High Maintenance, High-Strung, Lazy, Worthless Bitch.

Posted by: jc at July 27, 2011 06:16 PM (i8c5b)

Yeah but we get fucked alot so there's that

75 SHUT THE WHOLE DAMN PLACE DOWN.....

76 So Politico, the NYT of the internet, say Grover Norquest is a "key figure" in the conservative movement eh. Does he also look for creased pants?

Why is it that I never heard of this "key figure" and I have been into conservative politics for decades?

Really?

He's President of Americans for Tax Reform, the group responsible for the tax pledge signed by a lot of freshman Congressmen.

77 _{Until that kind of built in bias for spending is changed within the American electorate, this is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.}

But...but... the really smart folks tell us that only more blind trust and support, along with ironclad guarantees of job security, will force the GOP to do our will.

78


Vic, if you haven't heard of Norquist, you really don't know Republican politics outside of SC. 

Americans for Tax Reform?  The largest anti-tax organization in the USA?

Never heard of it?

Man, he's been around since Reagan (or Bush I at least).  I don't even like the guy (he's soft on muzzies) but he sure as hell is a big player in conservative politics.

79 Praise Allah, they listened to me.

80 So I ask the brave supporters of the blank check now given to Barack Obama, when are you willing to balance the budget? When doing so tanks GDP 12%? 15%? 20%? If the answer is never You had me at "never."

81 A friend of mine thought he was so fucking smart for voting Obama to send a message to the GOP.

I just drove over to his shop and silently popped him in the mind, good and hard.

82

 Cutting more than $22 billion? Can't be done. Against the laws of man and nature or something.

Anything over that impacts the Tamale Budget.

83 WTF is a "grover," anyway? Sounds like a virulent new form of mole or something.

84

75 uh, no.

 

85 Welcome to the party, Drew. She said she was eighteen.

86 All right, you guys, go out there, fumble the ball in the end zone, let them run it back to within inches of the goal. If we run out the final two minutes of the game, WE WIN! Ready....break!

87 In this clip from tonight's O'Reilly, he argues that real change can only happen when we have undivided government, and we have a chance for just that in 2012

Yeah, that makes sense if and only if we don't end up with someone like the Bushes or Romney.  Anything less than Zombie Reagan with majorities in both houses will lead to our continued slide into oblivion.

Let's see the last time we had an undivided government controlled by the Republicans, they gave us the Medicare Prescription Drug Law.

Maybe they've learned something, maybe they haven't.  Maybe they know how boned we are, maybe they don't.

88 35 Dude, it sucks worse than CCB did.

Honest question: How does the House GOP get something you like through the Senate and then signed by Obama?

Posted by: Llarry at July 27, 2011 06:07 PM (uQA8F)

Ahhh... you allow THEM to frame the debate...

The real question is, how can Obama get a DEBT increase WITHOUT the GOP folks in the HOUSE?

He is the one who needs somthing done... not the TEA folks... Obama needs a positive action... yet he has convinced you, and most others, that its the GOP House folks who have to act....

IMO? A Shutdown of Government functions will SAVE money... and isn't saving money a GOOD thing?

89 Looks like this dog's going to have to hunt.

90 I just heard the Boehner plan is called The Enslave Your Children to the State Act.

91 These last two threads have served to convince me that the struggle is futile and that we are well and truly boned.  Jackstraw and pep have made sound and cogent arguments that more of the same is the best we are going to get.  I agree that that is so as a practical matter, I just want to believe that trying to do something that would actually help, even if it gets rejected, or god help us, causes some career politicians to lose that next election, is better than appearing to actually help push the nation into the abyss.

I think I will drink much more tonight than is normal for a mid week evening.

92 75 uh, no.

Good summation at the link.

93 56 So just to be clear. If the Congress actually passes Boehner's plan and Obama signs it, but we still get our credit downgraded, the economy still sucks, and unemployment continues to rise, the MFM will blame Obama, right?

Posted by: mugiwara at July 27, 2011 06:13 PM (KI/Ch)

No.

Long Answer:

Not in your wildest dreams.

94 91 In this clip from tonight's O'Reilly, he argues that real change can only happen when we have undivided government, and we have a chance for just that in 2012

Posted by: rockhead at July 27, 2011 06:22 PM (ZMHGo)

More, its just historicly NOT TRUE.... the last time we had a balanced budget was with a Diviced Government... GOP Legislatue and Dem President...

But with a viable threat to their Two Party Stanglehold on power by the name of Ross Perot...

GOP is almost forcing the formation of a third party...

95

What are all of you bitching about.  This isn't going to pass the senate, and if it does, the president will veto it.  Please get this through your heads.  The dems will NOT accept a repub budget plan, no matter how good or bad it is. 

Their base is crumbling and the dems are going to pull out all the stops to appease them.  Reality is a bitch, but there it is.

96

I just heard the Boehner plan is called The Enslave Your Children to the State Act.
_{Posted by: Guy Fawkes 95}

That's ObamaCare.

 

97


ONE MORE:

The consequences arising from the continual accumulation of public debts in other countries ought to admonish us to be careful to prevent their growth in our own.


Being sold down teh river by entrenched party interests.  Just like the Founders envisioned.

98 CBO letter

99 Give my one good reason why I should give a flying butt crack what Groper Pantytwist thinks.

100 Appomattox? Didn't we surrender there?

101

I agree with Doc Krauthammer.

As I see it, 2010 was Operation Torch & Husky.

2012 is Operation Overlord.

102 What's in the plan that's being cut or eliminated? Anything I have heard of? Can I download the plan and read it myself?
Posted by: Serious Cat



Nope, still haven't released it.  Now it's after close of business in DC, about to go past the East Coast news air times, and getting close to East Coast newspaper deadlines.

Looks like the plan is to let it out of the bag after after dark and hope none of our little internet blanket parties can stop the fun.

Hey, remember when Republicans used to bitch about Pelosi pulling this late nite bum's rush?

103 -22 -42 -59 -75 -86 -99 -112 -126 -141 -156

woot

104 He's President of Americans for Tax Reform, the group responsible for the tax pledge signed by a lot of freshman Congressmen.

I thought that was DeMint.

105 Freeze all federal spending at 2008 levels.

106 How did it backfire?  I hear this all the time?  GOP lost 9 House Seats, but gained 2 Senate seats and kept Billy Jeff inline.  What, because we didn't get Dolt elected?

No, because it reversed Clinton's declining support. Polls showed that the electorate blamed the GOP for its "intransigence." Perception is reality in politics.

107 If people are going to collapse like venetian blinds at the hint of a market selloff, and then use such market reactions to justify the status quo, perhaps we ought to instead demand increased borrowing and spending... for Teh Marketz! Everyone, including the left, demanded TARP. We got it. And afterwards the markets collapsed anyway, for well over a year. Unemployment never recovered. This is beyond political control, and less than a sideshow.

108 Americans for Tax Reform?  The largest anti-tax organization in the USA?

Never heard of it?

Nope never heard of it. How many AOS articles have been written about it? None

How many news items have been written about it? None that I have seen in the past year or two..

109 Eh tu, West?

110 You can NOT be serious!!

111 If there is a nickel worth of difference between these two mafia factions I'd like someone to explain it to me.

112

I thought that was DeMint.


No, Jim Demint is responsible for teh recession.

113 -22 -42 -59 -75 -86 -99 -112 -126 -141 -156

Wow, in year 10, they drop the expected increase in spending by 10% of last year's deficit. That means we're golden, right? I mean what is the deficit otherwise expected to be when we maintain Obama's ginormous GDP growth of .8% for a decade?

114


Nope never heard of it. How many AOS articles have been written about it? None

How many news items have been written about it? None that I have seen in the past year or two..



Um, there IS a larger world out there, buddy.

115

_{Krauthammer Advises Keeping The Eye on 2012:}

There you have it. Lose this one to lose the next one.The Elite: As soon as double-rainbow unicorns with Skittle shit and bags of golden moonbeams come sailing out of the sky on a magic carpet made of titties and free beer, we'll fix all this stuff.

116 If there is a nickel worth of difference between these two mafia factions I'd like someone to explain it to me. Well, I don't know about the Demotards, but one difference between the latest Boehner plan and the previous model seems to be preventing two days of spending next year instead of two hours. So you have that going for you.

117 Boned.

118 Pell Grants. The bill would directly appropriate $9.0 billion for fiscal year 2012 and $8.0 billion for fiscal year 2013 for Pell grants. Those funds would be used to supplement funding for the portion of the Pell Grant program that is funded through annual discretionary appropriations. CBO estimates that this provision would increase direct spending by $17.0 billion over the 2012-2015 period.



Sweet! Boehner left in his earmark for more Pell Grant Spending from yesterday's bill.  What a fiscal conservative!

I sure hope he left in his special break for people going for education degrees.

119 15

Obama will take credit for being a budget cutter. *howl*

 

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at July 27, 2011 06:01 PM (0fzsA)

We're keeping our eye on 2012, you see.

120 Don't expect good fruit from a rotten tree.

121 At least now I have my script for the next RNC fundraising call.  I will pledge 22 dollars for this cycle, 42 for next, and 59 dollars for the following, and so forth.   That will be as much fun as when I sent my donation in pesos during the shamnesty battle.

122 Another Newsflash:

Charles Krauthammer has plenty of money and zero chance of losing his job to an illegal alien. In fact, the more things go to Hell, the busier and more in demand he'll be.

These sort of facts tend to color a person's views on things a bit.

123 I sure hope he left in his special break for people going for education degrees.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 27, 2011 06:37 PM (EeYDk)

Eight years of college instruction to be permitted to teach kindergarteners sounds about right. And of course, government subsidized, for the children.

124 I really have zero confidence that we are ever going to get this shit under control. I think I'm going to start buying extra canned goods and bottled water to keep in stock, just in case. This sucker's going down regardless of how people vote on the Boehner bill.

125 Honest question: How does the House GOP get something you like through the Senate and then signed by Obama?

Posted by: Llarry at July 27, 2011 06:07 PM (uQA8F)

Honest question: When will the Republicans actually start representing us instead of giving Dems what they want?

126 If this plan even has an iota's chance of passing the senate, then Dick is going to veto it.  Remember his childish petulence, folks.  He's going to be pissed as hell he was spurned by the repubs on further negotiations with him.  He'll be trying to prove his relevance to his base.  He's in full campaign mode in case anyone has forgotten.

127 And, of course, we'll have to go along with Obama's Amnesty so that we don't piss anyone off before the 2012 elections.

128 Scene, July 2014, Washington DC: Today Charles Krauthammer advised Republican Congressmen to moderate on budget demands as the mid-terms threaten GOP dominance in the House. A planned increase in the debt limit of eleventy trillion should be passed in a bipartisan fashion, he said.

129 "Krauthammer Advises Keeping The Eye on 2012"

So that's the hill then? Sh!t. Now I have to pack my gear yet again. General Yell O. Bellee has spoken.

130

He has the votes!

Stepanopolis just confirmed it on ABC nightly, so it must be true.

Guess he does not need our help after all.

131 I have voted Republican over Democrat every single freaking time. But I will be damned before I shut up and stop complaining about them being such idiots before they stop being idiots.

132 I don't get the rage being expressed all over the conservative blogosphere. You're dealing with an entrenched culture in Washington, and almost everyone there is dysfunctional and corrupt. Why do you keep expecting them to do the right thing?

Instead of getting angry, replace them.

Posted by: Llarry at July 27, 2011 06:14 PM (uQA8F)

What? We can't get angry? Of course we know its a fetid marsh there, but that don't mean we're gonna smile when they do what they always do.

133 The last time the GOP had all three Washington arms they passed Medicare D and nationalized education (for some idiotic reason).   Then, as they started to lose Congress, they got full-force behind amnesty and even ran the hated amnesty candidate in 2008.

But ... wait until "they" win in 2012.  Then they'll do the right thing ... even though it will be difficult.  Yep.  That's the winning strategy.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 27, 2011 06:41 PM (G/MYk)

 

You forget we had a moderate for a president when all of that went down.  Take heed, Romney fans.

134 I'm beginning to think that Kraut has the same kind of intelligence as Odumdum.
That is to say the legendary variety.

135 And, of course, we'll have to go along with Obama's Amnesty so that we don't piss anyone off before the 2012 elections.
Posted by: sifty



Watch Boehner and friends sign on for reparations in an attempt to get Black votes in the next election.

At this point, why not?

136 I think I will drink much more tonight than is normal for a mid week evening.

What took you so long?

137 64

I'm not saying a bigger cut could pass the Senate but we shouldn't be guessing what they'll accept. We should come in crazy high so when we deal, we have somewhere to move.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 27, 2011 06:15 PM (y07gN)

Yet, those like JackStraw don't understand this basic point.

138 You'll drink the kool-aid, and you'll like it (temporarily).

139 124 ...Sweet! Boehner left in his earmark for more Pell Grant Spending from yesterday's bill.  What a fiscal conservative!

I sure hope he left in his special break for people going for education degrees.


Cantor needs to leave this bill open to amendment so that this can be stripped. Boehner's not getting any Dems by throwing them this bone (which just so happens to be his pet issue).

140 >>>Moe's actually kept his nose out of this one.  It's only Erickson who's been the total jackass in this fight, which is why I'm glad his stupid gambit with Jim Jordan failed so spectacularly.  He needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

I've been out to lunch for the last few days (sitting for the bar exam in a new jurisdiction).  Can you explain this?  Has Fuckstick Erickson been up to some new stupid tricks again?

(I've never forgiven that moron for the whole Will Folks "I know who set Haley up!" fake news announcement.)

141 >>Yet, those like JackStraw don't understand this basic point. Sure I do. You must have missed CCB. How did that work out?

142 "Dogs and cats living together...."

143 Or maybe you missed the BIG DEAL. Obama changed the rules at the 13th hour. How did that go? These things only happened a couple days ago, surely you can remember that far back.

144 The no good bastards in Washington will get credit when:

5% unemployment returns
Light bulb ban destroyed
Eric Holder fired
Pass a balanced budget
CommieCare is destroyed
Departments dissolved

145 Well, the Republicans just lost my vote.  It takes a whole lot more than $20 billion dollars in cuts and the formation of yet another deficit reduction committee to get my vote.  They have proven themselves worthless to me.

I'm not even voting against Obama if one of the mainstream Pubbies wins the nomination because I have seen all of the evidence I ever need to see that there isn't a damn bit of difference between them and the Dems.

And I am sure the $20 billion is not even a real cut where we spend $20 billion less than we did last year.  It is one where we spend $20 billion less than some unrevealed, magical  number that assumes a baseline where everything increases for ever and ever and the ice cream fairy pays for it all in the end.

To hell with every single one of these guys.  And if the Tea Party is on board then to hell with them too.  They can be primaried just as easily as anyone else can.

The usual hacks are already out there selling this so the fix is obviously in.  Jen Rubin has a 10 point essay giving detailed instructions on how to sell the sell-out.  The most laughable one is that somehow this will remove any excuse Obama has for the economy.. WTF?  He will just hide behind yet another deficit commission and Boehner will get the blame on that score.  And the son of a bitch will deserve it too!

146 "it means that the Boehner plan really buys only $600 billion of dry powder. At a burn rate of $150 billion a month, this means the first step of the Boehner plan buys precisely 4 months before the debt ceiling has to be raised again! Oh yes, this plan also guarantees at least a one notch downgrade to the US debt, with more notches coming up before the end of the year when this whole farce is repeated."  link

147 Posted by: Jeff B. at July 27, 2011 06:48 PM

His deal is that CCB is all we should take or allow.  The only strategy he offers past that is "hold the line."  He's accusing Boehner and Reid of conspiring with one another, and everyone who's defending Boehner is getting tagged as a member of the "ruling class."

The gambit I referred to was how he tried to coordinate with Jim Jordan's staffers to gin up attacks on Republican Study Committee members with their own dues.  When they found out, all of the fencesitters jumped on board with Boehner's plan.

148 Sure I do. You must have missed CCB.

How did that work out?

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 06:48 PM (TMB3S)

Can you say dumb?

Ever heard of Boner's Plan? You know, the one he started writing almost immediately after CCB, thus telling the Dems that they don't need to do shit on CCB? Why should the Dems even acknowledge CCB if Boner is simply gonna write another plan?

But, I know you aren't going to read this, so believe what you will. I'm done with you.

149 (I've never forgiven that moron for the whole Will Folks "I know who set Haley up!" fake news announcement.)

My favorite Erick Erickson's Greatest Hit was when he threw a temper tantrum over Michael Williams and declared the GOP didn't want a black man in the Senate.

150 Well, I guess those of us who thought not raising the ceiling was a legit option have been marginalized to the point that our opinion doesn't matter. Just don't go whining around when our credit gets downgraded while we continue to spend into oblivion, which includes 2012 and beyond. We had a shot to show the people that a govt. shutdown isn't the end of the world and that life w/ limited government is actually ok. We blew it. By folding for something so measely we are admitting that, in fact, we NEED big government because if we were to shut it down, we would have economic catastrophe.

151 he argues that real change can only happen when we have undivided government, and we have a chance for just that in 2012

How much longer until Moody's and S&P downgrade us?

How far will the economy limp before it collapses after that?

How long till the massive class war that the left has been fostering for years actually breaks out following the utter exhaustion of other peoples money?

152 Polls showed that the electorate blamed the GOP for its "intransigence."

hahahahaha. polls in 1995 hahahahahahaha

May has well of looked it up on Wiki.

153 >>But, I know you aren't going to read this, so believe what you will. I'm done with you. Sure, I'm reading it. You're entertaining. Now after Reid refused to even consider CCB and paid exactly zero price for it, what did you want Boehner to do? Pout and pound his fist like your doing? I'm sure that would have broken Reid. Yes indeed, you are a master strategist.

154 The usual hacks are already out there selling this so the fix is obviously in.

Yes, indeedy, I'm going to make billions. 

155 What? We can't get angry? Of course we know its a fetid marsh there, but that don't mean we're gonna smile when they do what they always do.

You can get angry if you want, but to me it's like getting angry at a pile of dog crap for stinking. I expect crap to stink; it's what it does.

Instead of getting angry what I do is I take the hose and wash away the pile of dog crap.

156 If my GOP frosh Congressman votes for the Boehner plan, he loses my vote in 12, and his challengers get my vote. Its as simple as that, and I have told his office that.

I also think the Tea Party's^TM credibility is on the line. If they knuckle under to the Establishment "plan," the tea party, at least as it presently constituted, is finished. I have no use for tea party congress critters who have been bought. One or more third parties will move in to get my votes and votes of other tea parties who are dead serious about ending the borrow and spend fest in Washington.

157 My favorite Erick Erickson's Greatest Hit was when he threw a temper tantrum over Michael Williams and declared the GOP didn't want a black man in the Senate.

He lost me a lot earlier, when he put up a post with lots of links, alleging that Mike Castle was conspiring with Joe Biden to hand the Delaware seat to Beau right after he got elected.

Every single one of those links went to O'Donnell's main page.  In other words, he made a bogus accusation that not even she was making.

158 Say what you will about John Boehner, he has the superhuman ability to get the GOP in DC to do what he wants.

159 Yes, indeedy, I'm going to make billions.

You should have held out longer.  I'm getting billions, a mansion, and a yacht.

160

The only important ingredient in Raise-The-Debt-Limit Kool-Aid is the Financial Cyanide.

161 You should have held out longer.  I'm getting billions, a mansion, and a yacht.

How about a falcon?

162 Warning.....don't click on the "breaking debt ceiling news" link on the upper left hand corner of Zero Hedge.   I'm not really sure what to make of it, but it's not for the faint of heart.

163 We had a shot to show the people that a govt. shutdown isn't the end of the world and that life w/ limited government is actually ok. Clearly you are not a realistic interlocutor in the complex dialogue that is the paragon of our glorious democratic republic. in fact, we NEED big government because if we were to shut it down, we would have economic catastrophe. On the other hand, this sounds enlightened and measured in its nuance. Hope awaits you and yours in the bosom of Leviathan.

164 157 ..."it means that the Boehner plan really buys only $600 billion of dry powder. At a burn rate of $150 billion a month, this means the first step of the Boehner plan buys precisely 4 months before the debt ceiling has to be raised again! [...]


We've known from the beginning this was being done in two steps, even before the bill was released.

165 Posted by: some dope at July 27, 2011 06:55 PM (+kznc)

But didn't you hear? We have to go along with the establishment, it's for '12.

166 He lost me a lot earlier, when he put up a post with lots of links, alleging that Mike Castle was conspiring with Joe Biden to hand the Delaware seat to Beau right after he got elected.

Oh yeah, I remember that too.  The O'Donnellistas took it as gospel, along with the "Castle voted to impeach Bush", "Castle voted for ObamaCare", and "Castle is having a gay affair" lies spread by her camp.

167 Social Security Administration. The annual discretionary funding caps would be adjusted by the amount by which funds appropriated for the SSA program integrity activities for a year exceed $273 million; the maximum such adjustment would rise from $623 million for fiscal year 2012 to $1.309 billion a year for fiscal years 2017 through 2021.

CBO estimates that benefit outlays for DI, SSI, Medicare, and Medicaid would fall by $2.5 billion over the 2012-2016 period and by nearly $12 billion over the 2012-2021 period.



A whole $2.5 billon over 5 years? That's about a -- hmmm -- 0.05%. reduction in planned spending.  Comically insignificant and laughably exact.

168 I don't understand the deficit, anyway.  What is it? Money we owe other people? Fuck 'em; don't pay.  There, problem solved.

169

When we have Dick in the WH, a dem contolled senate, and old-line repub squishes in leadership, what the fuck were all of you expecting?

I've always said that 2010 is just a small beginning.  Old traditions die hard, especially old congressional traditions.  Some of you making fun of people who keep looking foward to further housecleaning in 2012 are just as bad, or, I think worse in accusing people of that.  You schleps thought that we would be kicking ass and taking names with just one house of congress.  Suckers.   

Correcting what is wrong with our nation is going to have be a generational endeavor.  It's going to be a long hard fight.

170 How about a falcon?

The falcon is delivering the suitcase with my billions to the top-secret mountaintop command center I'm also getting.

171 I'm not even voting against Obama if one of the mainstream Pubbies wins the nomination because I have seen all of the evidence I ever need to see that there isn't a damn bit of difference between them and the Dems.

Well, except for the fact that Obama is holding out for $2 trillion in tax increases that the GOP has refused to give him.

172 >>Correcting what is wrong with our nation is going to have be a generational endeavor. It's going to be a long hard fight. RINO.

173

Correcting what is wrong with our nation is going to have be a generational endeavor.  It's going to be a long hard fight.

Posted by: Soona at July 27, 2011 06:59 PM (0jg/X)

Of course, it's just that the Republicans are going to delay us quite a bit with their easy capitulation.

174 The falcon is delivering the suitcase with my billions to the top-secret mountaintop command center I'm also getting. Underground lairs are nice too. Plus, you'll need a silo or two for stolen ICBMs. And a personal monorail. Must have the personal monorail.

175

The GOP should have passed a bill raising the debt limit only enough to meet debt service and no more.

Then gone to the American people and said, "We will not default, but this president has increased federal spending by more than 1 trillion a year and it's time to take away the credit card."

If the Democrats start howling about social security, well, gee, don't we have all of them on record insisting that SS is solvent and will be for the next billion years when they were beating up Bush over trying to privatize it?

See, there's all kinds of ways they could have played this, but they did what they always do--kicked the can down the road and rolled over.

I'm done with them. Dishonest and cagey I can put up with if I have to. Dishonest and incompetent, I won't.

 

176 Now after Reid refused to even consider CCB and paid exactly zero price for it, what did you want Boehner to do? Pout and pound his fist like your doing? I'm sure that would have broken Reid.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 06:54 PM (TMB3S)

What's he going to do now that Reid said he's going to reject his latest plan?  Pout and pound his fist, or offer an even worse plan?

177 2012: Reid's Cinco de Quatro Act requires the Mexican flag to be flown next to the American flag at all public buildings as well as giving all Mexicans in Mexico the right to vote in US elections.

2013: The National Open House Act makes it a felony to ask anyone but a registered Republican for identification.

2014: The Frank-Rangel Equality in Sexuality Act establishes the right to inter-species and polygamous marriage for those who can prove they are Democrats.

We must sign on to these things.

178 this deal is so stupid to make that it boggles the mind.  so what exactly is the GOP going to run on in 2012 if it acquiesces to obama today, and yes, cutting $1billion in the only year that matters is acquiescing?  is the GOP going to say that it tried to cut spending, that it's fiscally sane, that it should be put in charge of the senate and given the presidency?  and that argument goes how exactly?  "uh, it was our plan, but we had to have a plan that they'd sign" meanwhile the economy is crap, unemployment rampant, debt is worse, and obama simply responds with "it was their plan".  see, right now we can pin the economy on obama completely; do a crap deal and guess who owns the economy then.

179

What's he going to do now that Reid said he's going to reject his latest plan?  Pout and pound his fist, or offer an even worse plan?

-------

Ssshhhh, don't bring up this sticky situation. No one wants to think about that. JUST GET BEHIND THIS PLAN, DAMMIT!

180 We must sign on to these things.

You will be if Barry is reelected.

181 I've always said that 2010 is just a small beginning.  Old traditions die hard, especially old congressional traditions.  Some of you making fun of people who keep looking forward to further housecleaning in 2012 are just as bad, or, I think worse in accusing people of that.  You schleps thought that we would be kicking ass and taking names with just one house of congress.  Suckers. 

Why is this so hard to grasp? Besides, the electorate--including the Tea Party--isn't ready to do what needs to be done to get our fiscal house in order. We're just starting out, taking those first baby steps.

We're not even at the the end of the beginning in reversing 60 years of government policy.

182 Ssshhhh, don't bring up this sticky situation. No one wants to think about that. JUST GET BEHIND THIS PLAN, DAMMIT!

The impression I'm getting from the 'realist' camp is that what Boehner is doing must be correct because he's the GOP Speaker, and that to question him is wrong.  It must be because Christine O'Donnell won the Delaware primary or something.

183 Underground lairs are nice too. Plus, you'll need a silo or two for stolen ICBMs. And a personal monorail. Must have the personal monorail.

Shhh, now everyone else is going to start lobbying the High Command for this stuff....

184 Uh oh. COD was mentioned. Put on your nomex jumpsuits, morons.

185

Why is this so hard to grasp? Besides, the electorate--including the Tea Party--isn't ready to do what needs to be done to get our fiscal house in order. We're just starting out, taking those first baby steps.

We're not even at the the end of the beginning in reversing 60 years of government policy.

---------------

Ah, man, I still get a kick out of people who think we can slowly roll this back over generations. At this pace, we aren't making it a single decade. There is no "long, hard fight" because the war will be over. We'll be a third world country.

186

@35: "Honest question: How does the House GOP get something you like through the Senate and then signed by Obama?"

My "tanks on the streets" threat worked pretty well in getting TARP passed.  Just sayin'.

187 You know what I'm learning from all of this?  I'm learning that registered independents, a category that increased to 40%, is now going to increase some more.  Pretty soon the republicans and the dems are going to be standing on street corners with a tin cup begging for donations.

188 What's he going to do now that Reid said he's going to reject his latest plan?

Pass it anyway.  Pass it ESPECIALLY now that the Dems are signaling at the 11th hour they don't want this plan coming anywhere near them in the Senate.

189

Of course, it's just that the Republicans are going to delay us quite a bit with their easy capitulation.

Posted by: KG at July 27, 2011 07:01 PM (LD21B)

 

Read my comment again and then tell me exactly what the fuck you were expecting. 

190 >>What's he going to do now that Reid said he's going to reject his latest plan? Pout and pound his fist, or offer an even worse plan? Nope. Keep on coming up with new plans and forcing Obama to deal with them. Neither the latest Boehner plan nor the Reid plan are going to be where we end up just like the grand bargain wasn't. So far, the Senate is proposing a deal with 0 tax increases and some, even if they are almost mythical, cuts. The House is proposing a plan with cuts only and a 6 month re-up. Obama is sitting like a dork in the WH. Whose side of the 50 yard line is the game being played on? I'm really surprised so many of you thought this was going to be a quick resolution when Obama and Reid have insisted all along on tax hikes and no touching entitlements and they have the pimp hand. How about a little patience?

191 Lipstick on the pig?   Is that like sprinkling sugar on shit?  We can do that.

192

@43: "Yes this is the first skirmish. Which the GOP has "solved" by running with their tails between their legs."

Screw you, pal! It's a brilliant plan! France surrendered to the Germans in 1940, actively fought against the US in '43, but then became a victorious power in '44-'45.  That's the game we're playing - we're working the long con.

193

Krauthammer Advises Keeping The Eye on 2012: In this clip from tonight's O'Reilly, he argues that real change can only happen when we have undivided government, and we have a chance for just that in 2012

Not gonna happen, Chuck. Speaker Cryin John's weakness makes a 3rd party for 12 a necessity.

194 Analysis of the CBO score

195

Read my comment again and then tell me exactly what the fuck you were expecting. 

Posted by: Soona at July 27, 2011 07:07 PM (0jg/X)

I wasn't expecting anything, just hoping for a little more spine, but even that was too much.

196 198 Uh oh. COD was mentioned. Put on your nomex jumpsuits, morons.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 27, 2011 07:06 PM (AZGON)

If we just had Mike Castle in the Senate, we'd have dominated this debt ceiling fight you purity freaks!

197

I'm really surprised so many of you thought this was going to be a quick resolution when Obama and Reid have insisted all along on tax hikes and no touching entitlements and they have the pimp hand. How about a little patience?

--------

What day do you think it is? I mean, you're talking about more plans and such, you do realize the supposed doomsday is early next week, right?

198 I should not have looked at this before dinner now I lost my appetite.

199 @progressoverpeace
that's what needs to be done, not run back and forth to harry reid with a new plan every ten minutes like oliver asking for another dollop of gruel.

how can anyone possibly suggest that the GOP is not going to own the economy after making this deal?

i'm beginning to like the mcconnell gambit more and more, if they won't cut anything just make Obama own all of it.  what's the difference in allowing him to raise the debt ceiling himself and cutting a few billion, then giving him the debt ceiling raise he wants anyway?

200 Sorry to repeat, but I asked this in the dead thread: But don't spending bills have to originate from the House? Don't we have the keys to the ignition and the slurpee?

201 212 I should not have looked at this before dinner now I lost my appetite.

Do you realize no one is ever going to click on any of your links ever again, especially not one introduced that way?

202

i'm beginning to like the mcconnell gambit more and more, if they won't cut anything just make Obama own all of it.  what's the difference in allowing him to raise the debt ceiling himself and cutting a few billion, then giving him the debt ceiling raise he wants anyway?

--------

Yea, the fucking McConnell plan is better than this garbage. At least then we were playing half-way competent political theatre. With this travesty, we will absolutely get the blame as the economy conitnues to tank.

203 Keep on coming up with new plans and forcing Obama to deal with them.

Yep, get inside their OODA loop.

204

I wasn't expecting anything, just hoping for a little more spine, but even that was too much.

Posted by: KG at July 27, 2011 07:10 PM (LD21B)

 

Is Boehner's plan raising your taxes?  Because that's exactly what Dick and Harry want more than anything else.  The repubs have held firm against higher taxes, so give them a little credit. 

205 LOL, jackstraw chides us for thinking this was gonna be quick (btw who thought that? beats me) and then he tells us that in 1 week's time Boner is gonna come up with plan after plan to deal with Reid's stonewalling.

206 216 Yea, the fucking McConnell plan is better than this garbage. At least then we were playing half-way competent political theatre. With this travesty, we will absolutely get the blame as the economy conitnues to tank.


We always lose the blame game, so why not instead focus on which poison pill is better for us as a people and why?

207 so give them a little credit. 

Posted by: Soona at July 27, 2011 07:17 PM (0jg/X)

You might as well ask me to give them credit for breathing.

208

Is Boehner's plan raising your taxes?  Because that's exactly what Dick and Harry want more than anything else.  The repubs have held firm against higher taxes, so give them a little credit. 

------

You do understand they could have just passed a clean debt ceiling bill and no one, including Harry and O, would have said shit, right. You've now been fooled into thinking that not raising taxes is somehow a win when a clean bill was always the easiest route.

209

@91: "Maybe they know how boned we are, maybe they don't."

See, that's the whole issue right there.  If we do what you want, we lose power and control; i.e., we bone ourselves.  If we do nothing or just half-ass it, we keep (or even gain [! *squeal*] power and control, and you are boned.  See, we are rich, powerful, and connected.  We don't have to deal with the consequences of any mistakes.  That falls to you, the peasantry.

What to do....what to do.....

Biff, Tad, Muffy - the rabble seems to be in a tizzy and demanding that we "do something" to save them.  Shall we retire to the Club and discuss this matter over some armagnac and fine cigars?

210 uh, the house is coming up with the plans because the house has to originate the plans.  the democrats talk about raising taxes revenues, but they know they'll lose enough of the middle class to blow the election right now if they really do that.  don't kid yourselves, raising taxes is a nonstarter for the dems, but they don't even need the legislative process to raise fees and regulations, get the nlrb involved in everything etc etc.  legislation is for suckers because you get blamed for legislation, unaccountable agencies are the ticket.  so if raising taxes was a complete bluff - and a bad one at that, and no one is going to touch entitlements, and cutting a few billion at most in fiscal 2012 vs shared ownership of the debt, economy and baselining all future budgets on ever increasing spending anyway with an entrenched bureacracy, i'd say i know which side of the 50 yard line we're playing on.

211

We always lose the blame game, so why not instead focus on which poison pill is better for us as a people and why?

--------

None of them are good for us as a people, so let's go ahead and give it our best shot at the blame game.

212 >>What day do you think it is? I mean, you're talking about more plans and such, you do realize the supposed doomsday is early next week, right? First, no it's not. We have another month or so before it becomes really critical. We are going to get a downgrade, that horse already left the barn. Second, this is about as high stakes poker as you could ask for. We are not arguing about the debt ceiling, we are arguing over changing the course this nation has been on since FDR. We are trying to get this country to understand that the welfare state in its current incarnation does not work. That may seem obvious to those of us here but more than half the country is just waking up to this concept or doesn't believe it at all. We are trying to cut government spending and reform entitlement programs. When has that ever happened? Never. People are used to Uncle Sugar handing out goodies and they like it. Over half the population pays 0 income tax. Over half the population gets a check from the feds. This is the mentality we are fighting. Look at the battle that went on in WI earlier this year. They had control of the governorship and the legislature and even that it was a war. This is orders of magnitude harder. As Soona said, this is going to take a long time. It took us generations of stupid to get here and we aren't going to get out of it because we won one election.

213 Nope. Keep on coming up with new plans and forcing Obama to deal with them.

Neither the latest Boehner plan nor the Reid plan are going to be where we end up just like the grand bargain wasn't.

So far, the Senate is proposing a deal with 0 tax increases and some, even if they are almost mythical, cuts. The House is proposing a plan with cuts only and a 6 month re-up. Obama is sitting like a dork in the WH. Whose side of the 50 yard line is the game being played on?

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 07:08 PM (TMB3S)

Well, considering Boehner's plan cuts 20 billion next year (according to his latest claims), I'd say we're pretty close to our own goal line, since that's meaningless next to a trillion dollars in spending.  Are you really going to argue the next plan he puts forward will cut more than 20 billion next year?  Isn't Boehner just in the position to keep offering a better and better deal to Obama and Reid because they keep saying no?

How does this suddenly overcome the much-ballyhooed "Only one half of one third of the government" argument?

214 @106: "As I see it, 2010 was Operation Torch & Husky.

2012 is Operation Overlord."

And the years where the GOP held the House, Senate, White House, and had 5/9 of the Court was what? Exercise Tiger at Slapton Sands? The Dieppe Raid?

215  You've now been fooled into thinking that not raising taxes is somehow a win when a clean bill was always the easiest route.

Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011 07:20 PM (OX4OZ)

 

But then you'd bitch and moan because the repubs took the easy way out instead of making a stand on spending.  

I'm really seeing, through reading comments on AoSHQ, how good conservative representatives just give up and go RINO.   

216 As Soona said, this is going to take a long time.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 07:22 PM (TMB3S)

How long do you think the country can run on pure make-believe money?

217 @80sBaby
yeah, GOP loses the blame game without a doubt, thanks to the pravda press, but honestly, you still have to have a cogent line of argument in the presidential debates when obama is gonna say the GOP signed on to all of this crap when doing a deal.  this is essentially why it's going to be terribly difficult for romney, if nominated, goes into the debate and tries to argue that government size, spending, entitlements need to be reformed when he created an archetypal system to do all three.

218 And the years where the GOP held the House, Senate, White House, and had 5/9 of the Court was what? Exercise Tiger at Slapton Sands? The Dieppe Raid?

The Sitzkreig.

219

@111: "Perception is reality in politics."

And reality is reality in reality.  It doesn't matter who is perceived as what, when.  The reality is simple: want the country to survive? Cut the gummint by 40% now.  Otherwise, don't bother with anything, as it won't really matter much.

220

I am so tired of the Vichy GOP.  They are arguing for a never ending deficit.   Pre emptive surrender is not the way to victory.  Ever.

 

Contrast the RINO approach with Reagan's "purity."

 

I rest my case.

 

How so many people get suckered by the RINOs I'll never understand.  If only Mike Castle and Specter were still alive.

221 Contrast the RINO approach with Reagan's "purity."

You mean the Reagan who signed off on amnesty in exchange for a tightening of the border?  That Reagan?  We're all unhappy with this, but don't rewrite history.  He got rolled more that once. 

222

@116: "If there is a nickel worth of difference between these two mafia factions I'd like someone to explain it to me."

Ey! We would thank youse not to sully our good name by's associatin' us wid such lowlifes as dese political parties.  When our bums fuck up and lose money, they get two behind the ear and get relocated to the trunk of a car in long-term parking at Kennedy.

223 225 None of them are good for us as a people, so let's go ahead and give it our best shot at the blame game.

None of them were ever going to be the best choice. Only a few politicians in Washington have ever even considered what would be necessary to save us now, and even that was not enough. So the way I see it is that we are going to have to choose between a list of bad and painful options and hope for the best.

As for me, I think Boehner's bill had so much promise and it could have been a good bill. It still lacks those qualities, despite revisions, but I have one primary concern about the Admin. being forced to prioritize-- I do not believe they will. Obama has shown for some time now that he is growing less fond of politics and fonder of total destruction. If he was told to prioritize, he would choose his supporters above all else while continuing to print more money.

224 >>How long do you think the country can run on pure make-believe money? How long have we been doing it so far? Every fiat currency fails at some point. Every. Single. One. I'm under no allusions that we aren't in for hard times. Been planning on it for some time (gold has been very, very good to me). But I also don't buy into the blood in the streets, full on anarchy that many here do. We're going to take a justified beating. But we'll survive. Who's in better shape? Europe is much further down the implosion scale than we are. China has been a fraud for years. We will still be the greatest nation in the world but we have a lot of work and a long way to go.

225 We're not even at the the end of the beginning in reversing 60 years of government policy. Posted by: Llarry at July 27, 2011 07:04 PM (uQA8F) As far as I can tell we're not even at the beginning of the beginning. The "electable" thing to do is to push for something good, block what is bad and then you can tell the public "see, we're trying, but they're in the way!" The "principled" thing to do is the same. The "practical" thing to do is the same. Giving in and whining when you're blamed for the obvious consequences doesn't work, and I'm persistently shocked that people INSIST that we *must must must* do that. Ultimately this comes down to the government being too big, too powerful and too immune to influence from the people who pay the bills. Helping it grow is not the answer under any scenario.

226 So after a mere two years the Republican / "Conservative" Establishment is shifting itself to defend stimulus level expenditures as the new baseline.

Big surprise, there.

Again, before it's over I'd wager they'll be defending Obama Care as the supposed best of bad alternatives. As they did LBJ's Medicare.

We don't have two meaningfully distinctive parties.

227 231 @80sBaby 
yeah, GOP loses the blame game without a doubt, thanks to the pravda press, but honestly, you still have to have a cogent line of argument in the presidential debates when obama is gonna say the GOP signed on to all of this crap when doing a deal.  this is essentially why it's going to be terribly difficult for romney, if nominated, goes into the debate and tries to argue that government size, spending, entitlements need to be reformed when he created an archetypal system to do all three.


At this point, we're screwed no matter what we do. If forced to choose, I would prefer having a conservative Republican president manage our decline as best they are able rather than just letting the entire thing blow-up with Obama in office. Perhaps I sound hysterical on that point but I really do not trust the Obama on anything, I really don't. So all we can do right now is have the House hold the line until we can send-in more reinforcements to both houses and the White House. I hope we can hold on until then. What else can I say?

228

How long do you think the country can run on pure make-believe money?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 27, 2011 07:28 PM (uhAkr)

 

The financial system in this country is going to burn to the ground before this is over.  And when our system burns, the world's system burn.

My concern for strong conservative leadership is not to save our present financial system.  Our present financial system sucks the big one.  Thank FDR, LBJ, Nixon, even W and a few others for that.  What I want is a constitutional government in place to pick up the pieces and start rebuilding again when the smoke clears.  I guess that's what I mean when I say this will be a generational effort.  This country has been heading for financial DOOM for, at least, a hundred years.

229 "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and slit the throats of those who want to begin slitting throats.""

230 243 "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and slit the throats of those who want to begin slitting throats.""

Posted by: MlR at July 27, 2011 07:45 PM (Qsfvj)

Uh oh, here we go...

231 So all we can do right now is have the House hold the line until we can send-in more reinforcements to both houses and the White House. I hope we can hold on until then. What else can I say? Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 07:41 PM (o2lIv) Our actual disagreement is over where that line is, per your misreading of what I said on an earlier thread (and you're not alone - but it still seems perfectly clear to me). If you keep moving the line closer to the Democrat position, people who don't want the line to move have less reason to vote for you. That would be the majority, unless the polls have suddenly and magically started faking results in *favor* of conservative positions.

232 214 Sorry to repeat, but I asked this in the dead thread:
But don't spending bills have to originate from the House? Don't we have the keys to the ignition and the slurpee?

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 27, 2011 07:13 PM (QxSug)

yes, the house has the purse strings, however, I seem to recall a bill that was passed in the house and then, for lack of a better work, bastardized in the senate and signed.  It did not resemble the original bill at all save for the number so giving ol harry carte blanche isn't the best strategy I think.

233 Curious talking about stuff she doesn't understand again.

234

the way the GOP is doing things now, there is no way that they are ever going to get both houses of congress and the WH, this bullshit that just happened pisses too many of us off way too much.

cut the fucking spending!

cut the fucking spending!

cut the fucking spending!

 

none of them will do it, so fuck them all

235 Yes Kraut wants us all to keep an eye on 2012 so we can elect Romney who he promotes every two seconds or one of the other RINO characters whose intelligence impresses him just like Obama's did in 2008!!

236
So in order to win in 2012 we need to lose now?  Oh yeah, abandon free market principles to save the free market...yeah that's the ticket

237

how can anyone call this any kind of victory?

it fixes nothing, it increases the debt and it doesn't balance the budget, why would any thinking person support it?

 

i'll answer my own question, they don't think they just want what they want.

 

238  Hey thanks! The scenery here was starting to get pretty boring...

239 Hell's bells people. Does anyone remember the last time the RINOs were in charge of House, Senate, and Presidency? Anyone?

Spending went through the roof, we got a brand spanking new entitlement program, <i>temporary</i> tax cuts, libtards running rampant, a president who refused to defend himself his policies his administration or his voters, and, to top it all off, John McLame as a presidential nominee.

I doubt the nation can survive another such period of undivided government.

240 what is the point of voting GOP when they give us the same pile of shit the progs do? "but they're different, they have "R"'s by their names and that means something" yeah, what?

241 245 Our actual disagreement is over where that line is, per your misreading of what I said on an earlier thread (and you're not alone - but it still seems perfectly clear to me).

If you keep moving the line closer to the Democrat position, people who don't want the line to move have less reason to vote for you. That would be the majority, unless the polls have suddenly and magically started faking results in *favor* of conservative positions.


I am sorry about the misunderstanding. What I keep coming back-to is determining what is the best way to hold the line for the benefit of our nation. All the options are bad and it is difficult to tell what will ultimately be best electorally. Cutting spending is on the lists of many but (IMO)  nothing similar to our ideas will be enacted short of forced prioritization done by officials with greater morals than those of our current elected officials. That leaves one in a bind as to what to do and where to draw the line, especially when one's opponents are hell-bent on the destruction of the Republic.    

242

The real question is, how can Obama get a DEBT increase WITHOUT the GOP folks in the HOUSE?

He is the one who needs somthing done... not the TEA folks... Obama needs a positive action... yet he has convinced you, and most others, that its the GOP House folks who have to act....

IMO? A Shutdown of Government functions will SAVE money... and isn't saving money a GOOD thing?

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 27, 2011 06:22 PM (NtXW4)

This.

1. Spending is the problem.

2. Debt is a symptom of the problem.

3. Default WILL be the consequence of debt.

4.  Raising the Debt Ceiling will excelerate the buildup of debt.

5. It's suffer now or die later. It's the Government on a sustainable path now or Hello Greece! 

243 "I am sorry about the misunderstanding. What I keep coming back-to is determining what is the best way to hold the line for the benefit of our nation. All the options are bad and it is difficult to tell what will ultimately be best electorally. Cutting spending is on the lists of many but (IMO) nothing similar to our ideas will be enacted short of forced prioritization done by officials with greater morals than those of our current elected officials. That leaves one in a bind as to what to do and where to draw the line, especially when one's opponents are hell-bent on the destruction of the Republic." like the GOP leadership doesn't have the same goal? because it seems to me they do.

244 "He is the one who needs somthing done... not the TEA folks... Obama needs a positive action... yet he has convinced you, and most others, that its the GOP House folks who have to act...." yes, yes, yes! and our "leadership" falls for this tactic every fucking time, they are retarded or evil, it has to be one of the two.

245 and since no one has really said it succinctly, what's most infuriating is not necessarily that the GOP is trying to work with the democrats to craft a bill that will pass the senate, but that boehner's plan is trying to pull something over on the people who put him into the speakership, namely bringing cuts that are accounting gimmicks and calling that a plan.

246 258  like the GOP leadership doesn't have the same goal? because it seems to me they do.

I think Boehner, Cantor, and McCarthy are more lacking in leadership qualities, negotiating skills, and than forward thinking than in actively desiring the destruction of the nation.* They have actually had some high points during this debate but they have made a number of incredibly ridiculous choices and mistakes, especially that business yesterday. It would have been much easier to start with CCB or the "Ryan" budget from the get-go. They learned much too late that Obama and his people are not honest negotiators and it has caused them trouble at every turn. But failure to learn is not the same thing as malice. We call them the Stupid Party for a reason. 


*Though there are some Republicans-- especially appropriators-- who would be perfectly willing to see everything burn and it would not hurt them any.

247 260 and since no one has really said it succinctly, what's most infuriating is not necessarily that the GOP is trying to work with the democrats to craft a bill that will pass the senate, but that boehner's plan is trying to pull something over on the people who put him into the speakership, namely bringing cuts that are accounting gimmicks and calling that a plan.

His staffers ought to fired for pulling that trick. They took a proposal with pretty good framework and made an absolute mess of it. What's more is that seemed to think the conference wouldn't eventually hear of it. Unacceptable. I'd like to know whose idea that was and also why Boehner's numbers were off when he was talking to Rush. 

248 more thoughts: one of the first rules of negotiations is to figure out if your opponent is in more of a hurry to make the deal.  don't remember the details specifically, bet there was a story about an international negotiation between an eastern country and western country in which one team of negotiators booked hotel rooms and the other rented apartments.  guess which one came away with all the concessions.  obama called all his press buddies and had them create a false deadline and then walked away from the negotiations like he didn't even need to participate.  with that as context, the GOP's unwillingness to even consider letting the date pass without raising the debt limit, conceding all of its leverage, will necessarily elicit a meaningless or worse outcome.

249 @80sBaby
i guess there are other possibilities that i should have considered and really didn't.  boehner could just be a moron or extremely lazy or both.

still, though, how exactly does one ascend to the speakership while being a complete numpty when it comes to negotiation, persuasion, and insight?

250 What party is this guy a part of again?

251 Politico says Mitch McConnell is in talks with Joe Biden. Oh, for Heaven's sake...

252 265 What party is this guy a part of again?

John McCain can shove it.

253 264 @80sBaby
i guess there are other possibilities that i should have considered and really didn't.  boehner could just be a moron or extremely lazy or both.

still, though, how exactly does one ascend to the speakership while being a complete numpty when it comes to negotiation, persuasion, and insight?


I look at all four top congressional leaders and am not exactly inspired by what I find there. Nothing against Boehner personally, but there are other lawmakers far better equipped to be speaker than he. But seniority and ability to say the right things at the right time go a long way in D.C.  Boehner is actually a good representative, too; he's just not a constantly inspiring leader or skillful negotiator. Though he has an awful lot to deal with, I'll give him that. He's also far better than McConnell. McConnell's only given value was his political expertise, and nobody outside the Beltway is seeing it.

254 268 264 but nobody / I just don't see it

255 We're not even at the the end of the beginning in reversing 60 years of government policy.

Posted by: Llarry at July 27, 2011 07:04 PM (uQA8F)

Don't worry. We're at the end of the end of bad government policy. Just keep doing exactly what you're doing.  It won't take more than six months for me to reverse it all.

256

Ah, man, I still get a kick out of people who think we can slowly roll this back over generations. At this pace, we aren't making it a single decade. There is no "long, hard fight" because the war will be over. We'll be a third world country.

Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011 07:06 PM (OX4OZ)

You see me coming, don't you.  Good eyesight.

257 wow, devin nunes on batchelor saying "it's a trap".

258 We always lose the blame game, so why not instead focus on which poison pill is better for us as a people and why?

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 07:19 PM (o2lIv)

How about focus on the truth. 

Too much spending. Too much debt.  No more money.  Wolf at the door if you don't cut spending. A loaf of bread at $500. Today.  Tomorrow a loaf is on for $750. 

Fuck Obama trying to hold the Oldsters hostage with SS so he can hold the rest of us hostage in order to break us and enslave our progeny. Jsust stop spending. Stop it. Stop.

259

@111: "Perception is reality in politics."

And reality is reality in reality. It doesn't matter who is perceived as what, when. The reality is simple: want the country to survive? Cut the gummint by 40% now. Otherwise, don't bother with anything, as it won't really matter much.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at July 27, 2011 07:31 PM (xy9wk)

Come on.  You can compromise a little can't you? I've only put one and a half cups of cat diarrhea in the pitcher of ice tea instead of the three  I originally wanted.  To me that's *balanced*.

260

'“You can’t find Barack Obama on the most pressing financial issues of the day,” said Pawlenty at a town hall meeting in Story City, Iowa. “Where is his plan on Social Security reform specifically? He doesn’t have one. Where is his plan on Medicare reform specifically? He doesn’t have one. Where is his plan on Medicaid reform specifically? He doesn’t have one.”

“So, look,” Pawlenty continued. “I’m going to offer some kind of prize or reward to somebody who can find Barack Obama’s plan on reforming these programs.”'

very carefully chosen words but, at least he said something.

261 248

the way the GOP is doing things now, there is no way that they are ever going to get both houses of congress and the WH, this bullshit that just happened pisses too many of us off way too much.

cut the fucking spending!

cut the fucking spending!

cut the fucking spending!

none of them will do it, so fuck them all

Posted by: Shoey at July 27, 2011 08:01 PM (m6OUa)

The House can't cut the spending but they can stop the borrowing that keeps the spending going.

By keeping the ceiling where it's at. Easy Peasey Lemon Squeezy.

262 I've never read the comments, but has anybody pointed out that McCain is about as big a stumbling clusterfuck of a douchebag as King Putt? 

263 Sock off at 276

264  the GOP's unwillingness to even consider letting the date pass without raising the debt limit, conceding all of its leverage, will necessarily elicit a meaningless or worse outcome.

Posted by: matt foley at July 27, 2011 08:50 PM (R0Uy5)

The ol' 23 TARP Skiddoo!

265

The House can't cut the spending but they can stop the borrowing that keeps the spending going.

By keeping the ceiling where it's at. Easy Peasey Lemon Squeezy.

Posted by: Dem Negotiator (AKA Satan) at July 27, 2011 09:49 PM (hbAPu)

 

can, but won't

 

 

266 I like Krauthammer, but have been disappointed in his commentary as of late. The last thing the GOP needs to be worrying about is 2012. Formulating and negotiating a debt ceiling deal with one eye on elections 16 months from now is more of the same bs that voters are tired of. Compromise IS a dirty word.....i don't want anymore luke warm water. If the GOP would just negotiate from a position based on principle, what historically works, and common sense the election will take care of itself. Well...assuming they finally find an effective means of conveying their message to the independent swing voters. Boehner, McDonnell are not effective. Rush, Hannity, Fox News, Ace and other blogs are all preaching to the choir. Is there no conservative marketing gurus out there? Can we really not find a well spoken, charismatic, attractive spokesperson? Why are we not hammering home the fact that the house passed the Ryan plan and Cut/Cap/Balance which were both killed in the senate? Why aren't we hammering the fact that the bottom half of all wage earners pay zero income tax? These types of things must be repeatedly played during prime time tv to get it straight through to the voters and bypass the liberal media. It is my experience that truly effective training methods require repetition before the new information is retained. Imagine every conservative blogger, every conservative talk radio host, every fox news program and news break, every federal, state, and local elected republican official sought out any and every news camera, every concerned voter called into their local morning and afternoon drive time radio shows, and a massive national prime time tv and internet ad campaign blitz that simply relayed the following message for two weeks: "President Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich because he believes they do not pay their fair share. [play multiple actual clips of obama saying just that] According to the IRS, the top 25% (adjusted gross income of $67,000 and up) of american wage earners pay 86% of all income taxes, while the bottom 50% pay less than 3%. [then show very simple graphic that clearly conveys the drastic disparity of income tax payers] Is that fair?" Subsequent ad campaigns can individually illustrate the shear monstrosities of the national debt, budget deficit, social security, medicaid, and medicare are. The waste, fraud, etc. The key is that they get repeated over and over and over for an extended period of time in places that will reach the 10% independent/swing voters that determine every election. Krauthammer wants to "win it all" in 2012. Unless that means a monumental landslide in favor of the GOP, what good is it? The GOP had the White House and majorities in the House, Senate and Governors after the 2000 election. They failed to govern under true conservative principles because too many republicans have been there too long and are entrenched in the system. The Jeffords and Snowe types make it difficult. The 2012 election needs to include replacing long standing republicans with more brave men and women that are hell bent on doing the right thing and don't care if they lose their next election. the tea party types are my last best hope for fixing this very badly broken d.c. system. In my opinion krauthammer is not helping the cause by speaking from a position inside the system.

267 I'm sorry, but if they held the line and stuck to the original Cut Cap and Balance plan, they would energize the base, attract the independents *and thus decisively win in 2012.* Going wobbly only results in a milquetoast Republican Presidential Candidate a la 1996.

268 feel the same way I felt with the obamacare debacle.  It almost feels like they don't have the will to fight.   As though they all have some super sekret and that is coloring how they deal with things in the beltway.  The secrecy surrounding the negotiations is driving some people crazy, makes you really wonder what they know that the American people don't.

269 I wonder if the Establishment Base is going for this sell out because they are open borders cheap labor greedheads (Wall Street Journal) and they know the Tea Party is for border closure and an immigration "time out" so we can integrate and assimilate again.

270 A second source says numerous members are threatening to leave RSC over the incident.

I post this so you can see the very first comment in all caps.  It's ridiculous the rhetoric being used to describe the tea party, a rag tag bunch of ordinary Americans of all stripes who only have the best interests of their country at heart.  I don't belong to the tea party, never been to a meeting or anything but I think to characterize them the way the dems and mccain are characterizing them is just plain wrong.   the whole point of this country is that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I really feel that this is why the squishy middle is getting more and more disgusted, the rhetoric is getting scary, very scary.

271

I'll just say, it's ok to disagree with the base and what not, but the snark that came form thw WSJ and the accusation that comes from Kristol saying we are helping Obama..wtf are they thinking? Do they think that helps them in their big ulto-quest for 2012? Stupid.

272

The democrat senate just issued their ultimatium to the Vichy GOP.  They will default rather than in any way restrict Obama's blank check book.

 

Let's hear it for the GOP Vichyites.  How can you compromise with the Devil?  The RINOs can now reap what they have sown.

 

They have created this situation with their constant undercutting of any serious reform attempt.  But there is a positive.  Burn down the whole rotten structure.  Destroy the Federal Reserve, destroy Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, let them default.

 

And since the dhimmies have shown they can roll the RINOs let's increase taxes , lets increase regulations.  Let us create a socialist people's republic.  Let the idiots in this country see what life under true socialism is.

 

Every nation gets the government it deserves.  I can't wait for it.  I love Punta Arenas and will watch Nero playing his fiddle with glee.