September 24, 2011

NRO Ponzi Debate [ArthurK]
— Open Blogger

There's been a flurry of posts on NRO's The Corner about Social Security as a Ponzi scheme in the last few days. This post seems definitive. I'll emphasize one paragraph but the entire note is worth reading.

Furthermore, the real objective of Social Security was not to set up a retirement insurance program. It was to lay the foundation for a full-blown entitlement state, complete with socialized healthcare. The original plan included a Medicare component, which was abandoned because FDR realized it would jeopardize passage of social security. (The push on Medicare, as I’ve recounted before, was renewed immediately after passage - although it took 30 years, due to deep opposition from the public and the medical profession.) As Gov. Perry points out in his book, while feigning to address a "crisis," Social Security (like Obamacare) collected the taxes ("contributions") for several years (from 1935 to 1942) before any benefits were paid out; and the eligibility age was pegged at 62 even though life expectancy was then 60. The goal was not to ensure a decent retirement for "beneficiaries"; it was to erect - in incremental stealth - an entitlement state that the public would never have supported if Progressives had been forthright about their ambitions. Social security was the foot in the door.

And Obamacare is the 3rd foot* (if you call Medicare the 2nd). That's why it's so critical to repeal it not reform it or tinker around the edges or try and make it work. I'm sure there are more than a few Repubs who, if they were President, would view Obamacare as a project - something that the Dems screwed up but -I- can make work! We can do two things. Either keep those guys away from the White House OR make it politically impossible for them to do anything but repeal it. Don't forget that Friedman quote...

*Some sort of multi-limbed commie monster must be lurking outside that door!

I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office. - Milton Friedman

That second option is more reliable that trying to navigate the minefield of figuring out which pol is conservative and which talks conservative. For decades the political climate has been moving the US towards a Euro-style social democracy. Picking conservative pols delays and stalls that move but doesn't reverse it.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:11 PM | Comments (101)
Post contains 460 words, total size 3 kb.

1 Obama is a socialist. No, he's not. He's just liberal.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at September 24, 2011 12:15 PM (lNGfM)

2 Ah but the eeyores will scream "purist" at you ArthurK.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:16 PM (M9Ie6)

3 Obama is an admitted communist.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:16 PM (M9Ie6)

4 As for Obamacare I don't see us repealing it because we will not take a 65 or 70 seat Senate and McConnell will not use the nuclear option.

Our only hope is the Supreme Court.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:18 PM (M9Ie6)

5
finally, a movie thread

Posted by: soothie at September 24, 2011 12:21 PM (sqkOB)

6 So how does one go about changing the political climate of opinion (great term btw) with the libs controlling pretty much every apparatus of culture?

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 12:22 PM (LD21B)

7 Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 04:16 PM (M9Ie6)

Where did he admit that he is a communist? Not that I care what he calls himself -- Alinsky said that they should call themselves whatever works.

Communist
Socialist
Progressive
Reform
Liberal
Labor


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at September 24, 2011 12:24 PM (LH6ir)

8

For decades the political climate has been moving the US towards a Euro-style social democracy. Picking conservative pols delays and stalls that move but doesn't reverse it.

I forget where I read this (probably one of your gems, ArthurK) but the ship of state is more like a train: It's on tracks going in one direction, and the engineer can make it go faster or slower, but it always goes in the same direction.

We have to either stop or jump the tracks.

Posted by: FireHorse at September 24, 2011 12:26 PM (F5OMl)

9 Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 04:22 PM (LD21B)

By never ceding the narrative to them. Call them on every falsehood, and never accept anything other than the truth.

Look at the successful gadflies in our society. They are considered impolitic or obnoxious or rude, but they get results.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at September 24, 2011 12:26 PM (LH6ir)

10 The problem with the "Ponzi scheme" simplification is that the "Ponzi" (or the Madoff) is not an individual, it's our Government. When one blithely calls the whole thing a criminal activity, it's incumbent on them to figure out who are the perps and who are the victims. Are you calling retirees collecting checks far in excess of their contributions the scammers because they get the money? Or are they the victims? Just yelping "Ponzi!!" Is Meaningless.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 12:27 PM (FzVlt)

11 So how does one go about changing the political climate of opinion

Well a good start is for politicians on "our side" to stop demonizing anyone who points out that the SS emperor has no clothes.

Posted by: Lauren at September 24, 2011 12:28 PM (frrvB)

12

Well a good start is for politicians on "our side" to stop demonizing anyone who points out that the SS emperor has no clothes.

I settle for our side acting like a side.

Posted by: FireHorse at September 24, 2011 12:30 PM (F5OMl)

13 What ArthurK said.

Posted by: logprof at September 24, 2011 12:31 PM (QaKuj)

14 Well a good start is for politicians on "our side" to stop demonizing anyone who points out that the SS emperor has no clothes.

Posted by: Lauren at September 24, 2011 04:28 PM (frrvB)

Yes, but as Friedman said, the political calculus is such that those politicians see a benefit in doing that, and so they will keep doing it. I'm not sure that the nature of political machines, which even Republicans have, will ever allow for that to really change.

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 12:34 PM (LD21B)

15 No amount of focus-grouped buzzwords will change the course of SS. Horror of horrors, pols are going to have to use Math. I'm sure that's at the top of every consultant's Do Not Do! list, but people need to be informed.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 12:35 PM (roFKc)

16 6 So how does one go about changing the political climate of opinion (great term btw) with the libs controlling pretty much every apparatus of culture? Posted by: KG 3 little words. Thermo Nuclear Warfare. But seriously, you can argue coherently. You don't have to convince 100% of the population to go along with your ideas - just move 2-5%. It's not like the USA is 80% lib/20% con. There's a majority of cons plus indys. You can persuade SOME of the indys. If you're yakking about Social Security, know the facts. Got a smart phone? Load up some graphs and links. Don't just SAY it's unsustainable - show it. Read the Epilogue section of After America (I put in a link to my overview) - Steyn has some ideas.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 12:37 PM (5Z/+/)

17 Also there's the fact that the Left has people who plan stuff like this, the long march through the institutions, etc, and they have other willing to fund these efforts.

There is no analogue on the Right. RSM has made a similar point many times that while the Left has the likes of George Soros funding websites and blogs pushing the narrative, but on the Right, the rich seem to expect conservative bloggers to do everything pro bono and to be grateful for it.

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 12:38 PM (LD21B)

18 Obama hasn't come right out and said "I am a communist" but if you listen to what he has said he has said he is in favor of every one of the party plank items.

Another thing to keep in mind about the Republican Party and the "moderate" wing is that up until Barry Goldwater came along there was no "conservative" wing.

So we haven't been trying to undo a lot of this shit very hard until recently.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:38 PM (M9Ie6)

19

Some sort of multi-limbed commie monster must be lurking outside that door!

 

Ahem.

Posted by: The Dark Lord Cthulu at September 24, 2011 12:38 PM (0xOQP)

20 So we haven't been trying to undo a lot of this shit very hard until recently. That's cause takin shit away was never a good idea if you wanted an elected position.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet at September 24, 2011 12:41 PM (ZDUD4)

21 17 Also there's the fact that the Left has people who plan stuff like this, the long march through the institutions, etc, ... Posted by: KG I've heard it said that any organization that is not explicitly right-wing (like a gun rights org) will drift left over time. Here's an idea. If you're on an organization (and you're right wing) STAY ON IT. Are you on the what-ever-it-is-board that condos have where they pass rules that say what size flag you can have on your door? STAY ON THAT BOARD. Don't allow the lefties to dominate it. If you get outvoted - so what. Fight. Get other people who share your views to win seats. Grass roots, baby. Bottom Up.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 12:43 PM (5Z/+/)

22 Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 04:38 PM (M9Ie6)

They are well organized and working toward a common goal. We are completely scatterbrained when it comes to a unified message and because we can't present a united front we get our asses kicked even though we are correct most of the time.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at September 24, 2011 12:43 PM (LH6ir)

23 http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html Bastiat saw the problem 160 years ago.

Posted by: sTevo at September 24, 2011 12:43 PM (roFKc)

24

Here's a bit pasted from Wikipedia about economist Laurence Kotlikoff:

"Kotlikoff has written that the economic future is bleak for the United States without tax reform, health care reform, and Social Security reform in his book The Coming Generational Storm and other publications. ... Kotlikoff once mentioned that the American economy is already unknowingly bankrupted and mentioning it as "t is engaging in Enron accounting" to describe the situation."

Our day of reckoning is coming.

Posted by: FireHorse at September 24, 2011 12:45 PM (F5OMl)

25 So how does one go about changing the political climate of opinion (great term btw) with the libs controlling pretty much every apparatus of culture?

The thing that hurts us the most is the news media. The news has always been biased all the way back to the founding of the Republic. But up until the 30s and FDR there was some balance in the papers. Some papers favored Republicans and some favored Democrats.

After FDR jailed some who opposed him in print they all became Democrats.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:46 PM (M9Ie6)

26 Grass roots, baby. Bottom Up.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 04:43 PM (5Z/+/)

It will probably take more than that, as part of the reason organizations drift left is because one a leftist gets in, they then turn around and start influencing the hiring process to favor other leftists. They will discriminate against conservatives, in other words.

Conservatives tend to play fair, but I think that has to change when it comes to leftists.

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 12:46 PM (LD21B)

27 Picking conservative pols delays and stalls that move but doesn't reverse it.

Posted by Open Blogger at 04:11 PM     So true.  We're F'd in the A, just a matter of time.  I suggest investing in Big Lube.

Posted by: Ms Choksondik at September 24, 2011 12:47 PM (nxptv)

28 We are completely scatterbrained when it comes to a unified message and because we can't present a united front we get our asses kicked even though we are correct most of the time.

You got that right. Look at all the flame wars and blood letting in the Perry vs Romney threads. And that is with only 3 or 4 people on here who actually support Romney.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:48 PM (M9Ie6)

29 It will probably take more than that, as part of the reason organizations drift left is because once a leftist gets in...

Gah.

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 12:48 PM (LD21B)

30 I read something recently that said the real purpose of Social Security was simply to get people to retire earlier so their jobs were freed up for unemployed younger people. It was a last desperate attempt by FDR to solve the chronically high unemployment of the Great Depression. People forget that Harry Truman actually introduced a national health care bill. Democrats had been agitating for it for years, and continued to after Truman. LBJ was canny enough to realize that he could get it passed for retired people but not for everyone.

Posted by: rockmom at September 24, 2011 12:49 PM (lSyyU)

31 You got that right. Look at all the flame wars and blood letting in the Perry vs Romney threads. And that is with only 3 or 4 people on here who actually support Romney.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 04:48 PM (M9Ie6)

 

Coughcoughyouforgotaboutmecoughcough.

Posted by: Palinista at September 24, 2011 12:50 PM (nxptv)

32 I read something recently that said the real purpose of Social Security was simply to get people to retire earlier so their jobs were freed up for unemployed younger people.

If I am not mistaken FDR's right hand man Harry Hopkins openly admitted that. Same for the 40 hour work week that the unions like to take credit for.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:51 PM (M9Ie6)

33 20 So we haven't been trying to undo a lot of this shit very hard until recently. That's cause takin shit away was never a good idea if you wanted an elected position. Posted by: Oldsailors Poet EXACTLY! Thatcher: Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money. We started this crap in the 1930s, jumped into it big time in the 1960s and have been picking up steam ever since. The USA has a TREMENDOUS amount of wealth that's been built up since the 1600s. Takes a long time to burn our way through it. If we still have a lot of wealth left, the lefties says "See? Everything is working out like I said it should." But now we see we're running out. The debt and deficit are crazy. Now pols who say this-and-that are UNSUSTAINABLE have more credibility than they would have 20-30 years ago. You know, if McCain had won in 2008 we would have kept drifting along* - It took Obama's win and his Yee Haw!! Spendlous plus Stimulous plus Obamacare plus godknowswhatelseIforgot to get us to realize "Hey - we're screwed This Decade unless we get our shit straight. Look at Steyn's After America. He's guessing we've got till 2015-16 until we go flying over that cliff. He can't be far off. *McCain vice Obama maybe meant 2025-30 doomsday instead of 2015-16.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 12:51 PM (5Z/+/)

34 Coughcoughyouforgotaboutmecoughcough.

LOL, yeah, I suppose a lot of those Perry bashers could be Palinbots and Paulbots.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 12:53 PM (M9Ie6)

35 Don't worry Vic, Rick Pelosi will get rid of all those heartless Romney supporters for you. Maybe even by Executive Order.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 01:08 PM (uIz80)

36

Comrade Arthur - brilliantly written and framed.

Social security has absolutely no equity unless one would like to consider the current 2.2 Trillion plus in 'non-marketable' government securities i.e. debt against the inflow of FICA payroll taxes as an asset, which I don't think would likely comport with basic economics.

To provide some scale on the current illiquidity found within the social security "lock box", we would do well to remember that this is the same amount the federal government takes in TOTAL federal taxes in one year ($2.2 Trillion). Of which, $829 Billion are generated from Payroll taxes.

And to provide further scale, the current National Debt is over $14.7 Trillion with another $2 Trillion to soon be added to that.

And we are expected to be running $1.4 plus Trillion yearly deficits over the next 10 years.

Not to mention Obamacare cut $500 BILLION out of Medicare, without Medicare's outlays being reduced.  

Finally, when factoring in the future payments both social security and medicare are supposed to be paying out, these unfunded liabilites approach $60 Trillion.

The entire system is unsustainable and the window of opportunity to even begin to solve this mess is fast closing.

Romney is sadly a political player who will not bring effective change.

With Perry there could be hope but he alas is a political animal more enamored with the concept of being president than with solving the economic brink we are on.

The only real candidate that is sticking to fundamentals is Michelle Bachmann however, her electability is not on solid footing.

Despite the politics of it all, change on a "can this really be happening" level is going to happen irrespective of who is elected dem or republican as the system is unsustainable. 

So Aruthur's post is exceptionally important as it correctly points out that the public must carry the debate to catalyze the entire political dialogue. For the hour is upon us. 

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:08 PM (Fb9Q0)

37 Like many of you, I'm more than casually interested in American history, and more than a casual viewer of the Hitler channels documentation of our past. That the History Channel's "Beltway Unbuckled" would yield new information about FDR, then, is illustrative of how media selectively protects the image of patron Liberals, while targeting what were once called mainstream Americans. FDR mistress Daisy Suckley's diary, which was discovered under her bed in 1991, isn't a secret, as I discovered by searching the term. But, it sure as hell has not been been publicly aired. I'm talking about FDR telling Ms. Suckley about D-Day details a month prior to June 6th, 1944 ("... technically treason"). I'm talking FDR's plan to partner up with Joe Stalin after the war, to crate a new world order, with FDR running the planned United Nations. Doris Kearns Goodwin, call you office. I dedicate this post to Senator Joseph R, McCarthy, who died for our sins. Video at: http://tinyurl.com/3etmps2 ******* "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the carrier of the plague. You have unbarred the gates of Rome to him." Cicero

Posted by: 6loq at September 24, 2011 01:10 PM (0i/sb)

38 Don't worry Vic, Rick Pelosi will get rid of all those heartless Romney supporters for you. Maybe even by Executive Order.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 05:08 PM (uIz80)

Heartless bastard, you do know that a bunch of the kids of illegal aliens are in fact citizens of the US don't you?

Posted by: robtr at September 24, 2011 01:15 PM (MtwBb)

39 The only real candidate that is sticking to fundamentals is Michelle Bachmann however, her electability is not on solid footing.

Bachmann has cut her own political throat. she is fading fast. Cain is still talking real fundamentals and he isn't bashing the other candidates while doing it.

He bashes Obama and that is the way it should be.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 01:15 PM (M9Ie6)

40 That the History Channel's "Beltway Unbuckled" would yield new information about FDR,...

I am surprised that The ice road trucker channel carried anything critical of FDR. Just covering history is surprising enough.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 01:17 PM (M9Ie6)

41

The only real candidate that is sticking to fundamentals is Michelle Bachmann however, her electability is not on solid footing.

 

How is Tardisil fundamental?

Posted by: garrett at September 24, 2011 01:18 PM (FMwmC)

42 36 The only real candidate that is sticking to fundamentals is Michelle Bachmann however, her electability is not on solid footing. Despite the politics of it all, change on a "can this really be happening" level is going to happen irrespective of who is elected dem or republican as the system is unsustainable. Posted by: journolist Screw electability - I don't think Bachmann can execute if she gets elected. But the 2nd paragraph of yours I quoted is the key. Yup, things will change. When people like Pelosi say "we have a plan - it's called Medicare" they're delusional. I want to hear a presidential candidate get frothing-at-the-mouth-mad and say "There's Not Enough Money!" Yes, you were promised SS benefits BUT There's Not Enough Money! Technically, you can fix SS. But nobody in office has the balls to throw out phrases like Means Testing and suspending COLA and 5-10% benefit cuts. Well, it doesn't matter. SS will be cut. The question is whether benefits will be cut by hyper-inflation or by stuff in the previous paragraph.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 01:20 PM (5Z/+/)

43 I have no heart when it comes to U.S. Sovereignty, no heart at all. (Plus I like tweaking Mr. Perfect Rick Perry, who might be a fine President is definitely a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable debater.)

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 01:21 PM (hiMsy)

44 ...there are more than a few Repubs who, if they were President, would view Obamacare as a project - something that the Dems screwed up but -I- can make work!

One name sticks out in my head - Romney, Romney, Romney.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at September 24, 2011 01:21 PM (dr4y0)

45 People on the left make the argument that a Ponzi scheme is illegal and intentionally set up to bilk people of money and that isn't what Social Security is so you're a big fat liar. Thing is that Ponzi scheme is more like a metaphor. The funding is new suckers pay off old suckers so that is very like a Ponzi scheme. But the SEC isn't going to come in and frog march the Social Security Administrators out. And thats not what Perry and others who criticize SS as a Ponzi scheme mean.

Posted by: Blaster at September 24, 2011 01:24 PM (Fw2Gg)

46 I also hate posting via Blackberry!

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 01:24 PM (uIz80)

47 Another tendentious path to the SS debate is the line about how we need massive amounts of immigration to keep it going.

I'm sorry, but I'm not so Kum-ba-yah naïve to believe that tens of millions of Mexican retaining strong ties to the motherland will be totally peachy-keen with paying for the retirements of tens of millions of old non-Hispanic Whites and Blacks.

Total  . . . fucking . . . Dreamworld.

Posted by: logprof at September 24, 2011 01:24 PM (QaKuj)

48

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 05:20 PM (5Z/+/)

< True.

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:24 PM (Fb9Q0)

49 The tea party has changed the climate a bit. For example, it used to be that the measure of a legislator was how much pork he could round up for the folks back home. In the space of literally the few months after Obama was inaugurated and Porkulus was birthed, that turned into a black mark (oh sorry, racist--denouncing myself) for GOP lawmakers, at least in some states.

KB Hutchison got caught in that climate shift running for governor against Perry. All of sudden it was bad that she was earmarking stuff for TX, and Perry was able to work that against her. He's a very political animal, but at least he was sharp enough to read the public's mood correctly and court the tea party.

Posted by: stace, teahadi extremist bitch at September 24, 2011 01:25 PM (lYlx9)

50 @41
I haven't read any of the comments, but I believe that's Fun and Mental

Posted by: Y-not at September 24, 2011 01:26 PM (5H6zj)

51

Bachmann when speaking economics is all about fundamentals ---- the other stuff, no comment.

Fundamental economics, that' kinda important as opposed to idiosyncratic political foot-faults and tangents.

But what do I know.

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:31 PM (Fb9Q0)

52 We should not be asking our politicians what they will do, but rather what they will undo.

Posted by: blaster at September 24, 2011 01:33 PM (Fw2Gg)

53

I am not necessarily a Bachmann supporter but it is dawning on me that she is the only one that unequivocally would appeal Obamacare and the only one I trust on that.

So, let's mock her so we can get back to discussing how weak Romney is over Perry and how they both appear to be heding on most of the conservative fronts.

I would say that is a great plan and would also merit a few credits in self-immolation through unwitting subertuge.

I believe such a course is offered at Berkley.

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:35 PM (Fb9Q0)

54 I just want my money back, with interest.

Posted by: CMU VET at September 24, 2011 01:37 PM (82UP1)

55  I also hate posting via Blackberry!

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 05:24 PM (uIz80)

That's what happens when you are a heartless Romney supporter. You have to post from the cheap seats. If Romney had a heart he would get you a laptop.

Posted by: robtr at September 24, 2011 01:37 PM (MtwBb)

56 54 I just want my money back, with interest.

I'll just settle for my money.

Posted by: marine mom at September 24, 2011 01:38 PM (fTykc)

57 Unwitting subertuge is pretty much what we've gotten from Odumdum.
 

Posted by: ontherocks at September 24, 2011 01:39 PM (HBqDo)

58 49 The tea party has changed the climate a bit. ... KB Hutchison got caught in that climate shift running for governor against Perry. All of sudden it was bad that she was earmarking stuff for TX, and Perry was able to work that against her. He's a very political animal, but at least he was sharp enough to read the public's mood correctly and court the tea party. Posted by: stace, teahadi extremist bitch See?! See! See! SEE SEE SEE!!! Perry's a politician who'll do what's politicial profitable. He's a right-wing guy who's an example of what Friedman was talking about in the quote. That is, left to himself he'll do right-wingy sort of stuff. But, prodded by the tea party, he'll get all reactionary and stuff - and that's what I want. I don't really care what's in a politician's* heart. I want to know what bills he'll veto, what bill's he'll fight for, what he'll let other people fuss with. *a politician running for executive office.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 24, 2011 01:39 PM (5Z/+/)

59

Hey,

Just in case anyone gets any ideas.

I'm copyrighting, 'unwitting subertfuge'

Great band name.

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:42 PM (Fb9Q0)

60 'unwitting subertfuge'

Did you deliberately spell "subterfuge" incorrectly?  Is that going a gimmick, because if it is, I think it'll work...

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 24, 2011 01:44 PM (c0A3e)

61

If we divide the 999 plan by 3 --- we have 333.

It's as easy as that.

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:46 PM (Fb9Q0)

62 @6 @11 So how does one go about changing the political climate of opinion Well a good start is for politicians on "our side" to stop demonizing anyone who points out that the SS emperor has no clothes. Posted by: Lauren at September 24, 2011 04:28 PM (frrvB) A better start is with us to ramp up the pressure on the politicians who continue denying the status of SS and engage with the pols who are trying to have an adult conversation with us about it. If it was politically profitable for them to address it, they would.

Posted by: Jypsea Rose at September 24, 2011 01:48 PM (A4C5M)

63

>>I'm copyrighting, 'unwitting subertfuge'

Great band name.

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 05:42 PM (Fb9Q0)

I think that's what is found under a used rubber that's been turned inside out and discarded.

So yeah your band could be headlining SNL in no time at all.


Posted by: ontherocks at September 24, 2011 01:48 PM (HBqDo)

64

Kratos,

You are once perceptive genius.

Can't fool you unless I work my subertfuge.

 

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:48 PM (Fb9Q0)

65

333 is way too cheap for a pizza. 

We'll be bankrupt in no time.

Posted by: Herman Cain at September 24, 2011 01:49 PM (FMwmC)

66 Cain 37, Perry 15, Romney 14

rumors that Romney told his supporters to vote Cain, but still, WOW!

Go Cain!!!

Posted by: Jose at September 24, 2011 01:50 PM (WTNJJ)

67 Are the result in already. HA is live covering but no results.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 01:51 PM (M9Ie6)

68

We need to stop pussy footing around the edges & drop the bomb. This is a start.

 

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at September 24, 2011 01:51 PM (0fzsA)

69

333 is way too cheap for a pizza. 

We'll be bankrupt in no time.

Posted by: Herman Cain at September 24, 2011 05:49 PM (FMwmC)

< Not if it's thin crust silly.   

Posted by: journolist at September 24, 2011 01:51 PM (Fb9Q0)

70 @65 That is a capital idea. Make it pay to talk honestly about Social Security.

Posted by: Ken at September 24, 2011 01:52 PM (7yb9x)

71 68

333 is way too cheap for a pizza. 

We'll be bankrupt in no time.

Dominos had that 5-5-5 deal a few years ago.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 24, 2011 01:52 PM (c0A3e)

72 Wow, Bachman only got 1%. She needs to lay off the tardisil.

Posted by: robtr at September 24, 2011 01:53 PM (MtwBb)

73

What will it take?  It will take Freedom of Speech to once more be OK...

It will take the PC culture we have on speech now, to disappear, so people will feel safe actualy voicing their opinions in public, without being attacked as "having no heart" (oooppppsssss..), or RAAAAAACIST... or Sexist... or a Homophobe... or an Islamophobe...

It will also take the people to once again realize, that Freedom means people don't get to tell you what to do... even if its for your own good...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 24, 2011 01:54 PM (NtXW4)

74 Alahpundit spinning that this straw poll is a MUST win for Perry or his election is sunk. That is with the first primary/caucus nearly 6 months away.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 01:54 PM (M9Ie6)

75 wow Bachmann last at 1.5% below Huntsman/Santorum/Gingrich

total collapse

Posted by: Jose at September 24, 2011 01:56 PM (WTNJJ)

76 Where are ya'll finding these results?

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 01:56 PM (M9Ie6)

77 Posted by: Doctor Fish at September 24, 2011 05:55 PM (Lt/Za)

Why should they even respond to her? Noone cares about her anymore.

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 01:56 PM (LD21B)

78

< Not if it's thin crust silly.  

 

Didn't you watch the CNN Debate? 

 I came out against thin crust. 

 

Posted by: Herman Cain at September 24, 2011 01:57 PM (FMwmC)

79

And on the second option, of getting the Wrong People to do the Right thing?

Note, that in modern times, the ONLY time there was a balanced budget was when there was a viable threat to the two party stranglehold on power, from Perot and the Reform Party.

As soon as that threat diminished, we went back to deficits.... with both parties overspending.

Note, the TEA party DID change the political dynamics for awhile... but now that they have been pretty much coopted by the Republicans... there is not been any significant changes because they are no longer a true outside threat (exhibit 1? where are the spending bills? and budget? Year is done...).

The ONLY way to fix Washington, IMO, is a viable outside threat....

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 24, 2011 02:00 PM (NtXW4)

80 OK HA has the results up now.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 02:01 PM (M9Ie6)

81 @76 This. In a nation that hates the truth, Free Speech will be despised. or There should be no third-rails in politics...

Posted by: Some Roman Senator they didn't listen to at September 24, 2011 02:02 PM (/FhCo)

82 Herman Cain's fund raising just took a quantum leap forward. I won't say he has the Big Mo, but after today he has a small wind at his back.

I see him as V.P.

Posted by: As If! at September 24, 2011 02:05 PM (piMMO)

83

One of the crucial elements in the stalemates the communists forced on us after WWII was that they had sancuaries, i.e., North Korea, North VietNtiam, etc.  The 17th Amendment is one of the most potent blows the Progressives struck against the Constitution, because it ensured the national government was where all the money would end up, and therefore all the power.

Rather than term limits and balanced budget amendments, if we repeal the 17th Amendment, money and power will return to the states.  This will allow each state's citizens to arrange things to their liking.  Some states like Texas and Oklahoma can become sanctuary states for  those fleeing the Progressive gulags.  Divide and conquer, baby.

Posted by: Jack Oke at September 24, 2011 02:07 PM (u3Fs4)

84 Posted by: Jack Oke at September 24, 2011 06:07 PM (u3Fs4)

I think you mean the 16th Amendment? But I agree that both should be repealed.

Posted by: KG at September 24, 2011 02:09 PM (LD21B)

85 Politicians are just people that try to find parades and get to the front of them.  Their primary focus is how to get credit and place blame.

We are making a huge mistake by focusing on which politician we might want to support, because our country is now so fucked up that the most important thing is to get headed in the right direction -- not fight over which person is the best choice to lead in that direction (and yes, that means everyone who would lead in the wrong direction [all democrats and a lot of others] have to be opposed and defeated.)

But, we are not going to solve our problems until common people focus on which direction the parade should be going and what our intended destination might be.  We don't need people who want to get elected to accomplish that.  We are going to have to do it without them because they will not actually help since they are too afraid of losing votes.  We can just trust that once the parade starts politicians will show up soon enough to try to claim all the credit.

Posted by: jc at September 24, 2011 02:09 PM (ufJKx)

86 Cain as VP would be great, but can he show a Presidential temperament a little more often? That's all I ask.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 24, 2011 02:14 PM (uIz80)

87 7 Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 04:16 PM (M9Ie6)

Where did he admit that he is a communist? Not that I care what he calls himself -- Alinsky said that they should call themselves whatever works.

Communist
Socialist
Progressive
Reform
Liberal
Labor
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at September 24, 2011 04:24 PM (LH6ir)

==========

You can add fascists and NAZIs.

All of them are forms of slavery, so why bother to go along with them in splitting hairs?  They change their name every time people start to catch on.  There is no reason to play along with their name changes.  Just call them Slavers.


Posted by: jc at September 24, 2011 02:15 PM (ufJKx)

88 83  And on the second option, of getting the Wrong People to do the Right thing? ....

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 24, 2011 06:00 PM (NtXW4)

========

Post 90 is intended to agree completely with your points.

Posted by: jc at September 24, 2011 02:19 PM (ufJKx)

89 18 Obama hasn't come right out and said "I am a communist" but if you listen to what he has said he has said he is in favor of every one of the party plank items. Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 04:38 PM (M9Ie6) People drop these subjects too easily because it's "icky" or something. It's heavily documented (one source is "Radical in Chief" by Stanley Kurtz) that Obama's founding political principles were communist. It's not just being raised at the knee of Frank Marshall Davis, it's his extensive communist student activities in the 80s (as reported by schoolmates and family), and his "Community Organizing" activities in the late 80s and 90s with the Chicago Communist Club (including the New Party, Ayers, Pfleger, Wright, etc). Most of which was known before the election, but people were all like "nah, couldn't be," and stuck their fingers in their ears. The plan was to wreck our economy, destabilize our civilization, and take power incrementally to impose a new authoritarian order. Anti-business activity, growing government, lawless bureaucrats imposing new regulations... I don't know what else he has to do before people get it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Straight Unicorns at September 24, 2011 02:55 PM (bxiXv)

90 Most of the people I know receiving Social Security are both younger than me, completely healthy, but receiving "disability insurance" that they never payed into.   It's a welfare program.

One particular person I know, is a dominatrix, no I never used her service, in fact I don't know why anyone would, she's a hideous little slug.  She works off books and managed to manufacture a "disability" that allows her to get money every month, supplementing her income earned from beating up liberals who think they are edgy.

She's 31, she started collecting at 23.

Posted by: Douglas at September 24, 2011 04:04 PM (YKOnu)

91 I hope all you suckers have a great retirement plan, because the GOP is going to put you all in the poorhouse at 65. And all you dumb sh-ts are going to vote for them because of it.

Posted by: JEA at September 24, 2011 04:37 PM (+KzCu)

92
Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

Posted by: The Tears of the Sun AudioBook at September 24, 2011 05:01 PM (4Qf6Q)

93 96 I hope all you suckers have a great retirement plan, because the GOP is going to put you all in the poorhouse at 65. And all you dumb sh-ts are going to vote for them because of it.

Posted by: JEA at September 24, 2011 08:37 PM (+KzCu)

====

Yeah, it's the GOPs fault that the math behind Ponzi schemes always makes the schemes fall apart.  If we would only vote along with geniuses like you we could do away with all of those pesky mathematical and physical laws.  After all, wishful thinking and ridiculous ceremonies just have to be able to overrule the laws of the universe cuz so many people like you tell us so.  When the total harmonic convergence gets here be sure to let the rest of us know.

Say, that unnecessary gravity thing is real inconvenient for me too.  Why don't you just make gravity be intermittent by choice for all of us as long as you are overruling the laws of the universe.  You got the voters, and like you, they know there is no such thing as an actual truth.  All that matters is how you feel about it, right?  Go for it.  You don't need no stinkin' math.  And if your bullshit doesn't actually work, you can always blame the GOP for failing to get behind your ideas and wish really hard at the same time you do.

Posted by: jc at September 24, 2011 05:49 PM (ufJKx)

94 I don't get people trying to make Obama's brain more interesting than it is... He's not a "Communist" etc. He's just your ordinary liberal statist type, there are a bunch of European countries whose welfare systems are exactly compatible with his wishes. He's not original, he is painfully ordinary.

Posted by: bruce at September 24, 2011 09:40 PM (apXFs)

95

Sure, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and 0bamaCare sucks. I am glad that I am exempt from 0bamaCrap and I get my paycheck from the US Treasury. After years of screwing Fannie, Freddie, and many male pages I can count on gerrymandering to keep me in office.

Further, I promise you that I will continue to make my butt available to anyone who one who wants to make a donation. Is $100 too much to ask for a quickie?

Posted by: Barney F at September 24, 2011 10:27 PM (XjzEc)

96

I just figured out why Romney can't communcate with the "base" if you are the base... he uses too big of words.

I guess he needs to keep his vocabulary to a second grade level.

Because he says exactly what you say, only Romney says it better and more precisely with more precise language.

And the meaning of what he says just eludes you.

Guess the Perry grunting, is a language you understand better than English.

Posted by: petunia at September 24, 2011 10:47 PM (hgrmi)

97 104  I just figured out why Romney can't communcate ....
Posted by: petunia at September 25, 2011 02:47 AM (hgrmi)
=====
If you are going to insult people over their ability to communicate, you might want to learn how to spell it.

Posted by: jc at September 25, 2011 01:54 AM (ufJKx)

98

"And Obamacare is the 3rd foot* (if you call Medicare the 2nd). That's why it's so critical to repeal it not reform it or tinker around the edges or try and make it work. I'm sure there are more than a few Repubs who, if they were President, would view Obamacare as a project - something that the Dems screwed up but -I- can make work! We can do two things. Either keep those guys away from the White House OR make it politically impossible for them to do anything but repeal it. Don't forget that Friedman quote... "

Romney, Huntsman, Perry, et al. Is there anyone who would rid me of this meddlesome scourge.

Posted by: davod at September 25, 2011 03:27 AM (C5U9L)

99

12. I settle for our side acting like a side.

But only against the Liberal/Socialist/Progressives.

Candidates must lay bare the diffferences between each other.

Posted by: davod at September 25, 2011 03:31 AM (C5U9L)

100

"I just figured out why Romney can't communcate with the "base" if you are the base... he uses too big of words."

Romnycare

Posted by: davod at September 25, 2011 04:15 AM (C5U9L)

101 Romney, Huntsman, Perry, et al. Is there anyone who would rid me of this meddlesome scourge. The White House for a horse!

Posted by: Paultard Who Makes Dumb Literary Allusions at September 26, 2011 03:41 AM (lNGfM)

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