Ace of Spades HQ

September 17, 2011

NYT Employs Geometric Logic to Argue Against Life Without Parole. [ArthurK]
— Open Blogger

The Always Awesome BestoftheWeb notices the NYT making an asshat out of itself.

Between 1992 and 2008, "violent crime declined sharply all over the country," the New York Times observes during an editorial. One of the factors contributing to this decline was tougher sentences for criminals: "the number in prison for life without parole tripled from 12,453 to 41,095."
Only that's not how the Times presents this information. Instead, it commits the Butterfield fallacy:

From 1992 to 2008, the number in prison for life without parole tripled from 12,453 to 41,095, even though violent crime declined sharply all over the country during that period.
Even though! The Times opposes sentences of life without possibility of parole, saying that "a fair-minded society should not sentence anyone to life without parole except as an alternative to the death penalty." Needless to say, the Times also opposes the death penalty.
Opponents really do have a slippery slope in mind: Once capital punishment is gone, they'll try to do away with life without parole. If they succeed in that, we'd be surprised if they didn't start arguing that life sentences are too harsh altogether. To our mind, it all amounts to an excellent argument, if an unwitting one, against abolishing the death penalty.

If you think he's exaggerating look at Europe. The Norwegian Mass Murderer (who I won't name) can get a max sentence of 21 years and is eligible for parole. And that's not an isolated case! That's the slippery slope the NYT would travel.

You can get a free subscription to BestoftheWeb here.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 02:35 PM | Comments (89)
Post contains 279 words, total size 2 kb.

1 A certain medical procedure should be punished with 25 years to life, instead insurance covers it.

Posted by: CAC at September 17, 2011 02:37 PM (DwjEr)

2 I guess arguing about the death penalty will make a nice change from arguing about Bachmann, Romney, Perry, and Palin.

Posted by: Grey Fox at September 17, 2011 02:37 PM (nEMLy)

3 The only thing worthy of tbe death penalty is voting GOP. //donk

Posted by: sven10077 at September 17, 2011 02:38 PM (AEIYh)

4 Crime declined because Rick Perry gave little girls Tardisil which is like a chemical labotomy.

Posted by: robtr at September 17, 2011 02:40 PM (MtwBb)

5 Personally, I think we should get rid of the death penalty, the courts, and the whole justice system, and return to bloodfeuds. It will encourage stronger familial ties. For the children!

Posted by: Grey Fox, writing about Anglo-Saxon bloodfeuds for the last week at September 17, 2011 02:42 PM (nEMLy)

6 They both say "that could have been me," but conservatives are thinking of the victims of crime, liberals are thinking of the perpetrators. The farther left, the more gross this sympathy gets, see Bernadine Dohrn's comments on the murders of the Manson Cult. Also see modern "thug subculture."

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 02:42 PM (bxiXv)

Yeah, that works great in Albania.

Posted by: CAC at September 17, 2011 02:42 PM (DwjEr)

8 6 Merovign, Nice point.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 17, 2011 02:44 PM (AEIYh)

9 Abject MFM stupidity: It's what's for dinner.

That's so stupid that it makes my teeth hurt.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at September 17, 2011 02:44 PM (7utQ2)

10 No, no they LOVE the death penalty. They just like it young.

Posted by: dagny at September 17, 2011 02:44 PM (5CFay)

11 I thought crime dropped because they were aborting themselves?

Posted by: dagny at September 17, 2011 02:45 PM (5CFay)

12 And we're the stupid ones.....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at September 17, 2011 02:47 PM (0xqzf)

13 10 No, no they LOVE the death penalty. They just like it young.

Posted by: dagny at September 17, 2011 06:44 PM (5CFay)

And for those whose crime is being inconveniently alive. Murder, Rape - not worthy of death. Being conceived by accident - death!

Posted by: Grey Fox at September 17, 2011 02:48 PM (nEMLy)

14 "There's nothing wrong with murder. Just an extroverted form of suicide." Woody Allen. Filmmaker and Gardisil advocate for pre-pubescent Korean step-children.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 17, 2011 02:50 PM (UlUS4)

crime dropped as the welfare rates and socialistic spending increased. Get enough free money and criminals are too stoned on medical marijuana to commit crime.

Of course they're still making babies.

And we're going broke faster than ever...but I blame crony capitalism on that... even rich people get handouts in USSA.

Posted by: torabora at September 17, 2011 02:50 PM (SB1cp)

16 Nice point. Posted by: sven10077 at September 17, 2011 06:44 PM (AEIYh) It's not just a few examples - it's a "cultural" distorted version of the underdog ethos. Look at all the lefties with a hard-on for Hamas, good feelings for Fatah and happy thoughts for Hiz'ballah. Not to mention candlelight vigils for cop killers, that LA loonie representative giving government money to active gangsters, and on and on and on. They don't have any compassion for small business owners, but they have plenty for murderers and thieves.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 02:51 PM (bxiXv)

17 Why do we care what the NYT says. Everyone knows they are a pile of lying jackals and would no longer be in buisness if they were being financed by the Mexicans.

Posted by: Vic at September 17, 2011 02:52 PM (M9Ie6)

18 Well...

Posted by: Mike Huckabee at September 17, 2011 02:53 PM (EL+OC)

19 "Once capital punishment is gone, they'll try to do away with life without parole. If they succeed in that, we'd be surprised if they didn't start arguing that life sentences are too harsh altogether." It's no exaggeration. All these defense justice projects have discussed this in private since the 90s as their ultimate goal.

Posted by: mike at September 17, 2011 02:54 PM (tX/2V)

20 Criminals should be sentenced to a lifetime subscription to the NYT without cancellation. They'd beg for the death penalty.

Posted by: Basement Cat at September 17, 2011 02:54 PM (l5mQa)

21 Free Charlie!

Posted by: The NYT division of the Manson Family at September 17, 2011 02:54 PM (WCm02)

22 They both say "that could have been me," but conservatives are thinking of the victims of crime, liberals are thinking of the perpetrators.

The farther left, the more gross this sympathy gets, see Bernadine Dohrn's comments on the murders of the Manson Cult.

Also see modern "thug subculture." Posted by: Merovign

The Left may be but I don't think it's so much out of sympathy as it is the logical conclusion of oikophobia. Thugs are the enemy of a stable, prosperous society therefore the Left is inclined to become the thugs' 'champions.' The enemy of my enemy...

Thug culture is the product of pathology in particular communities, only tangentially related to the Left's association with crime and criminals.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 17, 2011 02:55 PM (s1vtf)

Welfare money causes economic retardation.

Posted by: Twisted Bachmann at September 17, 2011 02:56 PM (SB1cp)

24 17 Mero, Oh they've always been open about it, and their ultimate goal is to get us all killed. Maybe we'll take them at their actions instead of their word one day.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 17, 2011 02:57 PM (AEIYh)

25 From 1992 to 2008, the number in prison for life without parole tripled from 12,453 to 41,095, even though and so, violent crime declined sharply all over the country during that period.

That was an easy fix.

Posted by: huerfano at September 17, 2011 02:57 PM (263hv)

26 24 Welfare money causes economic retardation. Posted by: Twisted Bachmann at September 17, 2011 06:56 PM (SB1cp) Mostly of those who have to fork it over. (drool, drool)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 17, 2011 02:58 PM (UlUS4)

27 Thug culture is the product of pathology in particular communities, only tangentially related to the Left's association with crime and criminals. Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 17, 2011 06:55 PM (s1vtf) Neither thug culture nor Manson mania was "caused" by the left, but both (at different points on the spectrum) have been excused or even championed.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 02:59 PM (bxiXv)

28 From 1992 to 2008, the number in prison for life without parole tripled from 12,453 to 41,095, even though violent crime declined sharply all over the country during that period.

How do they... I mean, don't they... how did the author...

Fuck it. I must humbly admit that there's no possible way for my brain to process that degree of stupid.

It's like trying to imagine what Rosie O'Donnell's vagina looks like- no matter what your frame of reference or how hard you try, you just can't bring yourself to do it lest it somehow do irreversible damage to your psyche.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 17, 2011 02:59 PM (SY2Kh)

29 Know what else increased as violent crime decreased during roughly that period? Gun ownership. Incarcerate or kill the hard core felons; let the lesser thugs know that they may risking their lives and crime falls. Liberals oppose both of these things, and when I'm extra cynical I think that is not by accident --fear of crime tends to make populations more open to more government controls "to keep us safe"

Posted by: Yeah, I'm pretty redneck at September 17, 2011 03:00 PM (cQZV0)

Tripling the number of lifers is tripling the costs of incarcerating lifers. We can just without to pay for that.

Betcha could hang the entire bunch with the same rope.

just sayin'

Posted by: Simple Economics at September 17, 2011 03:01 PM (SB1cp)

31 VDH had a column a bit ago that made a profound impact on me. He was discussing a woman who was murdered by some gang banger. She stopped at a car wash to clean her car on her way to work when that worthless piece of DNA slit her throat. The part that shook me was VDH's reaction to the police spokesman's boilerplate comment that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time was along the lines of "No, she wasn't. She had every right to be there. She had every right to wash her car without being murdered."

That's the part that caught me. It's the barbarians that have no right to be there, not decent human beings.

I really don't see why the death penalty is controversial. When you remove yourself from the strictures of civilization, you also remove yourself from the protections of civilization.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 17, 2011 03:01 PM (Gk3SS)

32 Off old old sock

Posted by: PaleRider at September 17, 2011 03:02 PM (cQZV0)

33 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at September 17, 2011 03:02 PM (fyOgS)

34 The "reasoning" behind the quote that's mangling everyone's brains is that incarceration is an evil Christo-fascist brutal authoritarian society being evil Christo-fascist brutal authoritarian to poor minorities who are simply expressing their rage against the man who is keeping them down. So of course, imprisonment is an objective wrong that a society is now doing "out of proportion" to the problem now that crime numbers are falling. It's a side effect of the left being incapable of understanding cause and effect, same reason they can't figure out why businesses aren't hiring people after you regulate and tax them out of existence.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 03:05 PM (bxiXv)

35 The Norwegian Mass Murderer (who I won't name) can get a max sentence of 21 years and is eligible for parole.

As a teenager I lived in Stavanger, Norway. In my senior year in high school, the government released an insane mass murderer who dressed all in bright green. We called him the Green Man. He'd killed his entire family and some neighbors.

One night I was riding my bike through the park next to my house. As I rode around a bend in the path, there was the Green Man, standing there, motionless, staring at me as I sped past.

I never rode in the park at night again. The Norwegian government took away one of my little pleasures, because it was more important to put on a show of tolerance and enlightenment for the rest of the world than it was to protect non-criminals.

Someday they'll release the latest mass murder. You can bet on it.

Posted by: Llarry at September 17, 2011 03:06 PM (jbgd3)

The death penalty is the only proven deterrent to recividism. No executed criminal has EVER re-offended.

Posted by: irongrampa at September 17, 2011 03:07 PM (SAMxH)

37 Liberalism = inverted morality.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at September 17, 2011 03:07 PM (21lBC)

38 I really don't see why the death penalty is controversial. When you remove yourself from the strictures of civilization, you also remove yourself from the protections of civilization.

B...b...but....an eye for an eye leaves the WHOLE world blind!!!!1ELEVENTY!!!111!!!!!

Posted by: libtard w/librul logik at September 17, 2011 03:08 PM (CQCIL)

39 "The farther left, the more gross this sympathy gets, see Bernadine Dohrn's comments on the murders of the Manson Cult. " Bernadine dorn, isn't she the cop killer that Barack Obama pals around with? Oh, and her husband, who liberals think should be rewarded for cop killing with a job as a college professor.

Posted by: nerdygirl at September 17, 2011 03:10 PM (XIGtO)

40 irongrampa@37: Hear, hear! If you kill (murder) someone, you get kilt. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at September 17, 2011 03:10 PM (21lBC)

41 Liberalism really is suicidal.

Posted by: steevy at September 17, 2011 03:12 PM (fyOgS)

42 Just wait and see what happens if they execute (and they should) that cop killer Troy Davis next week.

Posted by: mike at September 17, 2011 03:13 PM (tX/2V)

43 Really want to make your brain explode? Ask a pro abortion liberal what she thinks about bottle feeding a baby instead of breast feeding. I suspect that a lot of these people had gardisil tested on them in their youth.

Posted by: nerdygirl at September 17, 2011 03:15 PM (XIGtO)

44 Liberalism = inverted morality.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at September 17, 2011 07:07 PM (21lBC)

This, a thousand times over.

It still blows my mind that a full third of the population of this country suffers from psychosis and many of them are in Government.

Posted by: ErikW at September 17, 2011 03:16 PM (72ax/)

45 You can get a free subscription to BestoftheWeb here.

Free? Srsly? Like, fapping? Life is good . . .

Posted by: Peaches at September 17, 2011 03:16 PM (/ybwc)

46 If you kill (murder) someone, you get kilt. What is so difficult to understand about that? Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at September 17, 2011 07:10 PM (21lBC) There are different kinds of death penalty. My favorite is that carried out by the intended victim of the crime immediately before the crime occurs.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 03:17 PM (bxiXv)

47 Liberalism = inverted morality.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at September 17, 2011 07:07 PM

Exactly.

O/T: anyone else try to catch TMI3rd (from the sidebar)? I tuned in at 7 Eastern time and they didn't air either country's national anthem before the game started

Posted by: Ian S. at September 17, 2011 03:18 PM (WXhxA)

Crickets for years about the death penalty in the national MSM.

Rick Perry throws his hat in the ring for president.

The MSM: WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON DOWN THERE! THEY'VE EXECUTED 1,567,908 BLACK PEOPLE SINCE RICK PERRY WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR!! WE'VE GOT TO PUT A STOP TO THIS MADNESS RIGHT NOW!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at September 17, 2011 03:18 PM (AF1jB)

49 There are different kinds of death penalty. My favorite is that carried out by the intended victim of the crime immediately before the crime occurs.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 07:17 PM (bxiXv)

Ding, ding, ding!!!!

Posted by: Peaches at September 17, 2011 03:19 PM (/ybwc)

50
Speaking of inverted news items and teh Norwegians, what crucial piece of information do you suppose was omitted in this one?

Posted by: Wodeshed at September 17, 2011 03:23 PM (LEcV+)

On a little different note, why does a pedophile ever get a second opportunity? Never have understood that one.

Posted by: irongrampa at September 17, 2011 03:24 PM (SAMxH)

52 I think FBI or govt crime numbers are no different from government employment stats, easily manipulated in order to manipulate or massage opinions and expectations.

NYT BS is another story altogether, literally and figuratively.

Posted by: ontherocks at September 17, 2011 03:24 PM (HBqDo)

53 "25 17 Mero, Oh they've always been open about it, and their ultimate goal is to get us all killed." Because we cause pain to Gaia. Sob!

Posted by: nerdygirl at September 17, 2011 03:25 PM (XIGtO)

54 Libs never seem to notice that crime goes down when criminals are locked up and or law abiding citizens are permitted to defend themselves against criminal activity.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston training for the ONT mudwrestling match at September 17, 2011 03:28 PM (ijjAe)

55 "29 From 1992 to 2008, the number in prison for life without parole tripled from 12,453 to 41,095, even though violent crime declined sharply all over the country during that period." Because they're in prison you idiots! Really, is that concept so hard to understand?

Posted by: nerdygirl at September 17, 2011 03:30 PM (XIGtO)

Even worse, the assumption is that anyone supporting the death penalty is some knuckledragger who celebrates the idea of people being put to death just for the sake of killing.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I saw a post somewhere on the web about a death penalty case where the a dna test exonerated the individual. Every single comment celebrated the findings and expressed concern about an innocent person getting the hot shot.

Another liberal meme bites the dust.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at September 17, 2011 03:32 PM (AF1jB)

57 On a little different note, why does a pedophile ever get a second opportunity? Never have understood that one. Posted by: irongrampa at September 17, 2011 07:24 PM (SAMxH) Because of a belief that it is a disease that is treatable, as opposed to a person that decided to do something wrong.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 03:34 PM (bxiXv)

58 Nice shoutout to The Caine Mutiny in the headline, ArthurK.

Posted by: MrMaryk at September 17, 2011 03:34 PM (1Mn8Z)

59 Some of the commenters here don't seem to understand that the NYT worded this article deliberately. The Times isn't stupid, they're insidious.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at September 17, 2011 03:34 PM (pzGMg)

60 I may have mentioned this before. Back in the late seventies or early eighties, my ex sister in law's idiot liberal brother and his wife lived in Detroit (yeah, that Detroit). Cause they were unbiased and tolerant and all. And just loved humanity. So one evening they came home and after they got out of their car they were held up at gun point. Fortunately the guy just took their money and didn't shoot them. The cop said 2 things to them: "You mean this is the first time you've been held up?" and "You're lucky he didn't rape your wife." They moved out that weekend.

Posted by: nerdygirl at September 17, 2011 03:35 PM (XIGtO)

Free? Srsly? Like, fapping? Life is good . .

It's not really free. You will go blind.

Posted by: Ronster at September 17, 2011 03:35 PM (/ej8I)

62 I think when the *state* executes someone, they should be very, very sure that they have the right person. I'm not even that happy that they have the authority, but they do because not everyone can defend themselves. But we have to remember that the state will screw up just about wherever it can, including death penalty cases. So watch them like a hawk. And, as Malcom Reynolds once said, if someone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 17, 2011 03:36 PM (bxiXv)

My cousin was murdered in KS about a week before George Tiller was offed.

My cousin's killer got 8 fucking years.

Roeder got life.

There is no justice in the world.

Posted by: lauren at September 17, 2011 03:38 PM (VKD8C)

64 Because of a belief that it is a disease that is treatable, as opposed to a person that decided to do something wrong.

South Park had the best response to that in the NAMBLA episode.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 17, 2011 03:42 PM (Gk3SS)

From Spring 2010 to Fall 2011, a certain boy's Jr. High report card went from 1A, 1B, 3Cs and 2D to 5As and 2Bs, even though Xbox use declined precipitously while study hours, tutoring hours and regular bedtimes dynamically increased all over the household during that period.

See, I told you so, "Mom." [SPIT]

Posted by: Count de Monet, Tea Partying Sons of Bitches Martyrs Brigade at September 17, 2011 03:42 PM (4q5tP)

66 Weenies always think their justice system is superior. If you want to see fuckedupness, check out a documentary called "Letter to Zachary" about Canada. Everybody I've recommended this film to screamed at me later because it enrages people.

Posted by: mike at September 17, 2011 03:45 PM (tX/2V)

67 "B...b...but....an eye for an eye leaves the WHOLE world blind!!!!1ELEVENTY!!!111!!!!!" Nope. Half blind. You can get by just fine with one good eye. My 93 year old dad has been blind in one eye since childhood, and it has never been a problem.

Posted by: nerdygirl at September 17, 2011 03:45 PM (XIGtO)

When my girls were 8 and 9, there was an incident near their school, where some sick pervert tried to kidnap a child, but failed. Whole area was up in arms for a long while, the individual was never found, though. That made me sick, thinking about the possibility of something like that happening to one of our kids. I decided that if ever it did, then the culprit was going to be mine. No matter where or how he/she wouldn't get another chance. Of course, no such thing ever transpired, thank God.

Posted by: irongrampa at September 17, 2011 03:47 PM (SAMxH)

You can get by just fine with one good eye

I would miss my depth perception when reaching for certain important things.

Posted by: Ronster at September 17, 2011 03:48 PM (/ej8I)

70 If criminals didn't fear the death penalty so much, why do they fight and scheme to delay delay delay? It must be because they prefer by a wide margin to be alive and locked up rather than dead. The pig might sing philosophy might have a bit to do with it too.

I think there could better ways to handle the death penalty. Look at the logic of keeping Richard Reid alive; had he been successful in blowing up the plane he would have died too. Yet for attempted mass murder and with incontrovertible evidence, he gets to live because he failed.

Here's my suggestion on death penalty cases -- hold a second trial to determine if there is any gap between reasonable certainty and no doubt at all. If the second jury finds there is no doubt at all, welcome to the fast track to deadland. Swift and certain justice might mean something once again, though Texas does seem to move it along quicker than everyone else.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 17, 2011 03:52 PM (ENKCw)

71 The Family of Duane BuckÂ’s Victim Angry About the MediaÂ’s Drummed Up Sympathy for Brutal Murderer, Re-Victimizing the Families

This 14 y/o girl jumped on her mother's killer's back and begged him not to shoot her.

Posted by: François Villon at September 17, 2011 03:55 PM (tX/2V)

72 Too bad the NYT hasn't gotten the Death Penalty. Many good arguments to that end could be made on the plus side for society as a whole.

Posted by: ontherocks at September 17, 2011 03:56 PM (HBqDo)

73 If you love me... feed my ~~Solyndra~~ Sheep, Bitches!

Posted by: Barry Obama at September 17, 2011 04:07 PM (niZvt)

74 70 You can get by just fine with one good eye I would miss my depth perception when reaching for certain important things. Posted by: Ronster at September 17, 2011 07:48 PM (/ej8I) I could poke out your other eye and skull fuck ya if you ain't careful!

Posted by: Anthony's Weiner at September 17, 2011 04:08 PM (niZvt)

75 OMG... NPR has decided that Barry asking people to do him favors if they love him means he's... Jesus...

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 17, 2011 04:10 PM (niZvt)

76 OMG... NPR has decided that Barry asking people to do him favors if they love him means he's... Jesus...

See this is why I am an Old Testament kinda gal . . . God said to Abraham, kill me a son. Abe said, God, you must be puttin' me on. God said no, Abe said what? God said, you can do what you want, Abe, but the next time you see me coming, you'd better run.

Nobody would ever blasphemously mistake the SCOAMF for that guy.

Posted by: Peaches at September 17, 2011 04:25 PM (/ybwc)

77 Absolutely par for the NYT. Search their archives for articles by Fox Butterfield. About every two years, he pens (or rather, updates) another story that peddles this exact narrative. I would not be shocked to learn that he contributed heavily to this editorial. Bingo! Here's a search result from the NYT website: Despite Drop in Crime, an Increase in Inmates By FOX BUTTERFIELD Published: November 8, 2004. The number of inmates in state and federal prisons rose 2.1 percent last year, even as violent crime and ...

Posted by: RB at September 17, 2011 04:30 PM (UkrTY)

78 Frankly, I don't think Breivik deserves more than 21. Hell, he doesn't deserve more than 5.

Posted by: nati at September 17, 2011 04:40 PM (zmGQc)

79 Here's more Fox Butterfield: 7/28/03: The nation's prison population grew 2.6 percent last year, the largest increase since 1999, according to a study by the Justice Department. The jump came despite a small decline in serious crime in 2002. 5/17/99: Crime in the United States dropped sharply last year.... Criminologists pointed to several other factors that appear to be behind the drop in crime, though they acknowledged that it was impossible to measure them precisely. These include a huge increase in the number of people behind bars....

Posted by: RB at September 17, 2011 04:49 PM (UkrTY)

This.

It's why as a Catholic I oppose my church's teaching on capital punishment. I have yet to meet someone opposed to the death penalty who, if you pressed them, isn't also opposed to life in prison without parole.

I could oppose the death penalty if the alternative was a life in prison doing Cool Hand Luke-type hard labor. No tvs, no gyms. Work, food, health care, death. That's it.

Posted by: Palandine at September 17, 2011 05:23 PM (g7D8V)

81 Perry's genocidally killing Mexican rapists and murderers. He needs stopped. Where's Pancho Villa?

Posted by: La Raza at September 17, 2011 05:58 PM (SB1cp)

|Opponents really do have a slippery slope in mind: Once capital |punishment is gone, they'll try to do away with life without parole. If they |succeed in that, we'd be surprised if they didn't start arguing that life |sentences are too harsh altogether. To our mind, it all amounts to an |excellent argument, if an unwitting one, against abolishing the death |penalty.

Will the punishments of lesser crimes will decrease? What about the overall severity of "punishment for crimes" in general?

Expect this trend ... and expect at some point, probably very much sooner than later, vigilantism.

Expect to see ordinary people decide that if the punishment for murder / torture / rape / ... is 5 years and therapy, the ordinary people, or more likely, a contract service, will do face the justice system sans lawyer (to keep from going broke) and risk the time.

The perp and accomplices will instead get a fitting punishment ... the sort of thing that takes days ... that would make Stephen King vomit from fear ...

Posted by: Arbalest at September 17, 2011 06:00 PM (+jXFE)

83 "There's nothing wrong with murder. Just an extroverted form of suicide."

Woody Allen. Filmmaker and Gardisil advocate for pre-pubescent Korean step-children.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 17, 2011 06:50 PM (UlUS4)

For the record, this was Graham Chapman of Monty Python.

Posted by: Bender Bending Rodriguez at September 17, 2011 06:29 PM (1H47k)

84 59 Nice shoutout to The Caine Mutiny in the headline, ArthurK. Posted by: MrMaryk I LOVE that movie. And Bogey.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 17, 2011 06:52 PM (5Z/+/)

From 1992 to 2008, the number in prison for life without parole tripled from 12,453 to 41,095

Sounds like we need 41,095 ropes.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at September 17, 2011 07:13 PM (CZEZ0)

86 "Once capital punishment is gone, they'll try to do away with life without parole. If they succeed in that, we'd be surprised if they didn't start arguing that life sentences are too harsh altogether."

It is to laugh. That is a capsule summary of jurisprudence in Europe in the last 50 years. Do people want to see murderers hang? Yes! Given that statute says they can't be hanged, how about life without parole? Hmm, OK, I guess. Given that life without parole is considered by us bunch of eunuchs to be counter to human rights, how about we let them go on average after 17 years? FUCK NO!

I think there's going to be a backlash. And unlike the London riots I think it's going to be sustained, middle-class driven, well-fought (both tactically and strategically) on both sides, whatever that means, and a lot of people are going to die. I have my prescriptions for nipping the contagion in the bud, but I shall not air them here.

Posted by: David Gillies at September 17, 2011 07:19 PM (FdBA0)

87 This is not a new argument. When (not if) the courts declare the death penalty "cruel and unusual," its opponents will attack life without parole as "cruel and unusual." And then life. And then 50 years. And then 40 years...

Posted by: Jingo at September 17, 2011 08:40 PM (mdwWR)

88 Life without parole is worse than death. Having said that, there are the odd outliers that do get convicted wrongly. I'm all for letting them become jailhouse lawyers to fight their cases on the off chance that that the 5% or so that ARE innocent do get the chance to GTFO of jail.

Posted by: tangonine at September 17, 2011 11:27 PM (x3YFz)

89 "Life without parole is worse than death." BS. Very few inmates on death row waive their right to appeal and instead fight tooth and nail against execution.

Posted by: mike at September 18, 2011 05:33 AM (tX/2V)

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