1
ethanol is...
exciting!

2

If Romney has to carry the RomneyCare albatross around his neck this cycle, there's no reason that T-Paw should get a pass on carrying around the Ethanol Mandate albatross. That's just fair play.

 

Agreed.

3 His candidacy should be killed, over the bogus Crap and Tax stuff. You can take back epic stupid.

4 ahem, and yes, that's why he's now saying he's telling "hard truths" as opposed to "popular falsehoods."

5 You can NOT take back epic stupid.

6 How about a tax credit for dating hot IDF chicks?

7 And yeah, you are invested in ethanol subsidies aka "blenders tax credits." Farmers' socialism! Let's keep that gravy train running because socialism for farmers is really the American way.

8 Oh yes yes America! YES YES!

9 Well, yes you can. T-Paw has said it was an experiment that failed and needs to be phased out. Give me someone that tries , fails and admits it to someone that is never wrong.

10

This election is not about ethanol subsidies.

 

Enough of this crap.

11
Posted by: Kyle and his onboard refreshments

Just wondering if you're keeping that sock because you like it.

12 Still tellin' you guys:  his name's "Pawlenty." 

Not getting elected with that name.  Nope.

13 This is an example of why I am not entirely buying TPaw's new found spine and Straight Talk Express v3.0 marketing campaign. The curtains don't match the rug.

14 T-Paw was young and needed the money , it's different now...

15

I didn't know this, and it does make the Iowa position on ethanol seem more like primary season pandering.

At this point, I'm still more concerned about health care as an issue than ethanol, which is why I would still put Pawlenty over Romney.

16 Give me someone that tries , fails and admits it to someone that is never wrong.

Why is everyone looking at me suddenly?

17 "His candidacy should be killed..."

Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 03:26 PM (M9Ie6)

Hmmmm...Pawlenty or Obama? Let's see. Oh, Pawlenty isn't pure as the driven snow with an ACU rating of 100. Fuck 'em.

You purity folk are going to get us four more years of the worst president in history. If you think that there is internecine warfare now, just wait and see what happens if Obama is reelected because of this kind of shit.

18 12 Still tellin' you guys:  his name's "Pawlenty." 

Not getting elected with that name.  Nope.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (x3YFz)

No one would ever be elected with a weird name like that. It almost sounds foreign!

19 ahem, and yes, that's why he's now saying he's telling "hard truths" as opposed to "popular falsehoods."

Posted by: ace

 

It's a fair point ace. And if someone from this side doesn't ask, early, count on someone else to ask later. How does he reconile tax credits as being bad, when he helped create a similar market distortion in the form of mandates? Mandates and monopolies date back to the East india compant selling tea. The Dems would be fools not to use it.

20 Ethanol is great for treating the sores on my whanger. It tastes great aged in some charred wood for a couple of years. It loosens ticks prior to pulling them off my ass. It ain't worth a damn as an everyday motor fuel, and my 1956 John Deere tractor will not digest it. Fuck the ethanol mandates. They got to go.

21

Russ raises a good point that our candidate should be willing to talk about regulations as well as tax & spending. Many regulations are more of a boon to the well connected--and drag on the economy--than direct handouts that are easy to get upset about.

It would be nice if the governor here could point to reforms he's made that line up with his tough talk (I don't know, can he?).

Heck, he's still governor, right? Is he changing his states entitlement programs or gasoline mandates now? If not, why not?

22 He's taller, better looking, than Obama (great American name there BTW) and plays hockey. Also is a great debater and a quick wit, he will slice BHO's chest open and show him his still beating heart in the debates.

23 If Romney has to carry the RomneyCare albatross around his neck this cycle, there's no reason that T-Paw should get a pass on carrying around the Ethanol Mandate albatross. That's just fair play.

Then hit him with it. Hit him hard, and hit him often.

24

I don't think the election will mean anything because I do not have any confidence that the will of the governed will actually be the result.

The Democrat-Communist Axis has ensured that there will not be another free election in this nation. Period.

The Democrats, both voters and politicians, have more loyalty to their party goals than to the Nation. That's proven time and time again. They are demonstrably disloyal, lying fucks.

They will not allow us to win.

25 Posted by: Kyle and his onboard refreshments

Just wondering if you're keeping that sock because you like it.

Posted by: arhooley

 

No, but I do find it handy.

26

Bottom line - if ethanol didn't cause global warming, I'd be for it.

27 <wham><wham><wham><wham><wham>

/pauses from pounding head into desk

<wham><wham><wham><wham><wham>

28 Man dates is how T-Paw get in touch with balls.

29 "If Romney has to carry the RomneyCare albatross around his neck this cycle, there's no reason that T-Paw should get a pass on carrying around the Ethanol Mandate albatross.

Differences:

a) Romney hasn't changed his position on Romneycare, in fact he's doubled down on it. 

b) ethanol is a trivial issue compared to repealing Obamacare

30 No, no, lies! All of it lies! La la la la I can't hear you!

31 At this point, I'm still more concerned about health care as an issue than ethanol, which is why I would still put Pawlenty over Romney.

Why? Pawlenty was also big on government sponsored healthcare.

32

The Albatross will take to rotting and smelling. Then we can make him go away.

Why do we entertain these idiots?

33 Pawlenty also killed a dude in college, for his shoes, so lets don't forget that also.

34

Mandates and monopolies date back to the East india compant selling tea. The Dems would be fools not hypocrites to use it.

FIFY, of course.

 

35 oh yes yes.....don the superdelegates....YES!

36 Differences:

a) Romney hasn't changed his position on Romneycare, in fact he's doubled down on it. 

b) ethanol is a trivial issue compared to repealing Obamacare

Posted by: Jon at May 25, 2011 03:33 PM (ouKNE)

This.

37 >>>" Also is a great debater and a quick wit,..." Not in my assessment. And I still haven't gotten around to reading my foreign policy Cliff's Notes.

38 You purity folk are going to get us four more years of the worst president in history. If you think that there is internecine warfare now, just wait and see what happens if Obama is reelected because of this kind of shit.

BS, As I have said many times crap and tax is a deal breaker but this guy is a whole smorgasbord of liberal crap. I would like at least 50%

39

I hate putting ethanol in my car. Hate it. The mention of the damn stuff pisses me off. Screw the political & enviro-crap. It's just a bad, crappy idea.

40

Sure picked a shitty time to stop posting the DOOM! thread.

41 Ethanol killed my V8 and I WILL have my revenge!

42

They will not allow us to win.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at May 25, 2011 03:31 PM (b8wlG)

Then get down on your knees like a good serf.

That's a great attitude you have there, but I'm going to fight. Want to join me?

43 “Only people on the far margins of the political spectrum oppose ethanol” Yeah, in my car.

44 You know what the funny thing is?
YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUNNY THING IS!?

The federal government could ban ethanol mandates, and it would be completely within the intended scope of the commerce clause.

45 All 3 cases are perfect examples of states rights issues. If Romney and Mass want to do Romneycare and witness epic fail, so be it, same with Pawlenty's flirtation with AGW, a foolish one no doubt, and 20% ethanol in Minn, go ahead and make love to those dead horses. Just when the Federal Govt gets involved and imposes their subsidies and stupidity on everyone is where the heartburn comes, because I ca move my business out of MN and MA or my family, and still be an American, but I cannot do it when the Feds try to break me down and load me like a shotgun. And as a note, as a conservative, I am against all of these ideas, just that a state can do what they want as long as nobody has to bail their arse out and they do not violate the Constitution.

46 Tim Hussein Pawlenty

47 Ethanol killed my V8 and I WILL have my revenge!

Posted by: Iblis at May 25, 2011 03:35 PM (9221z)

 

Well, you needed a smaller more fuel efficient car anyway.  You'd think you'd be thanking me.

48 Seriously? This really required a 3rd post? First your own, then ya hijack Drew's and another? Wow. Dude, get a hobby. Besides ethanol I mean.

49

I still don't understand the criteria of positions for 'killing' someone's candidacy.

Palin clearly stated that she supported capping carbon emissions, supported TARP, indirectly endorsed DADT. Would these positions disqualify her from a candidacy?

All of these candidates are imperfect in some ways. Does something like this go into making a decision? Yes, it should. Is this enough to change my hierarchy at this point. No.

50

The mandates and the subsidies combined form a self-feeding beast that has to be chopped into itty-bitty pieces and then buried in salted earth if we ever hope to kill it.  Whichever candidate offers the fastest, most ironclad way out of the mess is who I'll prefer.

Close the agencies that administer the subsidies, use an Exec. order to drop all Fed mandates, whatever it takes. We can't live in a science-denying, economically hampering half-reality where we all know that AGW is garbage but continue to service it anyway.

51

Did I mention that 2-stroke outboards run like shit on ethanol? Like shit, coughing, missing, with a dose of cutting out tossed in. Thank you President fuckhead.

52 18 12 Still tellin' you guys:  his name's "Pawlenty." 

Not getting elected with that name.  Nope.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (x3YFz)

No one would ever be elected with a weird name like that. It almost sounds foreign!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at May 25, 2011 03:30 PM (c45xH)

I'll make the point again, mr sock:  "Obama," foreign sounding or not, is easy to say.  "Pawlenty" rolls off the tongue like rosie odonnel rolls out of bed in the morning:  It ain't pretty.  I'm telling you:  the electorate is trivial, and "Pawlenty" won't sell. 

53 T-Pwned.

54 If Romney has to carry the RomneyCare albatross around his neck.

That's "ORomneyCare."

55 but I'm going to fight. Want to join me?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)

 

Fight? Yes. Join you, especially in smearing everyone who disagrees with you as "seeking purity" No.

56 Why are people taking Huntsman seriously as a candidate? Why has Mittens not announced officially yet? Intrade has Huntsman in the top three, that sight is a joke if people want to use it t confirm who is going to win.

57 Palin clearly stated that she supported capping carbon emissions, supported TARP, indirectly endorsed DADT. Would these positions disqualify her from a candidacy?

I recall her being a little wish-washy on that carbon shit and only saying stuff that was McCain's policy, not hers.

And TARP is not a big issue because a lot of Republicans voted for it at the request of Bush.

58 Sarah palin will end ethanol subsidies with the sheer power of her smile

59 Very clever, Russ. Start out attacking Pawlenty on ethanol mandates to establish your bona fides as uncorruptible regardless of you being an Iowa resident. Haul out the Romney strawman and cop a few feels. Moderate your stance on Pawlenty to where he's just as palatable to you as Romney and pray nobody notices that you just ran the okey doke on them. Nice try, you ethanol-blending RINO bastard.

60 Just want to make sure -- we're all still in favor of cutting other people's socialism, right? As usual -- other people's socialism? Our own socialism isn't socialism, of course, it's a prudent investment in America's future. Just want to make sure all the "real conservatives" are on board with cutting other people's socialism, and only other people's socialism. Because as long as we posture and preen and pretend it's not socialism when the government writes us a check or gives us a special "blenders tax credit," then it's okay. It's not socialism because we say it's not socialism. Socialism is what we give to the blacks.

61 Russ, you're the man but this dead horse is flat from all the whacking. Leave it to the vultures.

62 Differences:

a) Romney hasn't changed his position on Romneycare, in fact he's doubled down on it. 

Did Pawlenty alter his position on ethanol mandates, or did he just talk about phasing out ethanol tax credits? These are two entirely different things.

63 50

I still don't understand the criteria of positions for 'killing' someone's candidacy.

Palin clearly stated that she supported capping carbon emissions, supported TARP, indirectly endorsed DADT. Would these positions disqualify her from a candidacy?

All of these candidates are imperfect in some ways. Does something like this go into making a decision? Yes, it should. Is this enough to change my hierarchy at this point. No.

Posted by: Paper at May 25, 2011 03:37 PM (VoSja)

There are 320 million people in this nation and every 4 years we get fed, what?  8 of the same ridiculous candidates?  This is why mankind is doomed.  I, for one, am glad our space program is an utter failure:  it means we won't foist ourselves on the rest of the universe anytime soon.

64 Palin clearly stated that she supported capping carbon emissions, supported TARP, indirectly endorsed DADT. Would these positions disqualify her from a candidacy?

Well, Ace supported TARP, and I thought *opposing* DADT was the liberal position given Obama's maneuvers on it.  Regardless, Palin's not running, and at this point I think Perry looks pretty good.

65 What?  Ethanol ate out your engine?  Just buy a new energy efficient car.  May I suggest the Volt?

66 So we're trying to torpedo someone over ethanol subsidies? I think I can give up politics now. It's pretty obvious no one will ever be perfect so fuck it, more Obama is cool. Ethanol subsidies. This is what it's come to.

67 61 Just want to make sure -- we're all still in favor of cutting other people's socialism, right?

As usual -- other people's socialism?

Our own socialism isn't socialism, of course, it's a prudent investment in America's future.

Just want to make sure all the "real conservatives" are on board with cutting other people's socialism, and only other people's socialism.

Because as long as we posture and preen and pretend it's not socialism when the government writes us a check or gives us a special "blenders tax credit," then it's okay. It's not socialism because we say it's not socialism.

Socialism is what we give to the blacks.

Posted by: ace at May 25, 2011 03:40 PM (nj1bB)

Ace, you're just as fired up this week as I am!  It's probably not good for either of us.

68

Ahhhh!  Arab Spring!  The sun is shining – the birds are singing.  Kind of makes you want to go out and club some harp sealsÂ…

or kids.

69 Kyle: "I was just trying to make some ethanol"

70 Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 03:35 PM (M9Ie6)

You and I will have to agree to disagree. Pawlenty is far from perfect, but describing him as a liberal is a tad doctrinaire.

71 Posted by: Jake Blues at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (a2CS5)

Burn the heretic!

72 Just want to make sure all the "real conservatives" are on board with cutting other people's socialism, and only other people's socialism.

Actually, that's not a bad idea.

Think about it.  Currently, there's an incentive to support socialism because you focus on you getting yours.  But if losing yours means that 5 other people lose the socialism that I don't like, I think that's a great idea.

73 Minnesota was the first state in the Union to require all fuel sold in the State to have 10% ethanol content What pansies. We've got E85 out in California. Which we refine out here.

74 66 What?  Ethanol ate out your engine?  Just buy a new energy efficient car.  May I suggest the Volt?

Posted by: AE at May 25, 2011 03:41 PM (YYjeh)

Speaking of the volt, I heard GM is soon adding a 2nd shift to the Volt plant and hopes to do a 3rd also...are people starting to actually buy that pos?

75

#65

I really don't even care about one and a half of Palin's positions in that example. I'm just trying to reason a bit about candidate perfection.

You get perfect candidates when you have a perfect electorate. Until then, you have to use some criteria to pick a candidate (mine is most conservative, electable) and work in other ways to push the political spectrum to the right.

76 #64 I agree with this . We get the same 8 jackasses no matter what, so why split hairs over ethanol subsidies. Which I would love to end but have no faith in any of these idiots doing anything worthwhile.

77 72 Posted by: Jake Blues at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (a2CS5)

Burn the heretic!

Posted by: Purity police at May 25, 2011 03:43 PM (LH6ir)

Ah the good ole days when you could just burn people alive... /sigh.

78 According to the CA CARB, before they toolk it down, a CARB study found ethanol causes 2.5 X the CO2 as straight gasoline does.

Raise your hand if you think corn plants, harvests itself and then converts to ethanol.

79

Before I get behind T-Paw, I need an answer to a question:

Is it pronounced TEE-paw, or is it like Carol Decker's old band?

80 Just want to make sure all the "real conservatives" are on board with cutting other people's socialism, and only other people's socialism.

I don't get any socialism, so in the words of Walter Peck: shut this off, shut these all off.

81 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

82 May I suggest the Volt? My battery just died on Sunday. I'm so glad I don't have a Volt. Can you jump-start or push-start a Volt?

83

I think the difference might be Romney is hangoing Romneycare around his neck and Pawlenty is taking ethanol off his.

I am not even on the Pawlenty express, but this seems about an order of magnitude or two less important, particularly if he's sincerely changed his mind (and telling Iowans "we need to stop these subsidies" - which will surely cost him dearly in Iowa) well that sounds pretty fuckin sincere to me.

So I don't get your point Russ.  In 2005, AGW jacklegs didn't have a hell of a lot of organized opposition, and more than a few hundred of their lies and bad models weren't widely known.

84 Posted by: Blue Hen at May 25, 2011 03:38 PM (Gzv/o)

I prefer "mocking" rather than "smearing." And it's called a sock.

85 Are all tax breaks socialism?

86
In case you're wondering, ethanol subsidies cost us about $5B/yr.

Just for some perspective...

Aid to Pakistan since 2001: ~$20B
Obama wants to give Pakistan another $3B, now.

Planned Parenthood received about $350M in federal grants in 2008.

87 >>a) Romney hasn't changed his position on Romneycare, in fact he's doubled down on it. Oh, so now you WANT Romney to be a flip flopper. Cause that's what Pawlenty is now, a flip flopper. This election stuff shore is confusin.

88 Posted by: maddogg at May 25, 2011 03:37 PM (OlN4e)

My leaf-blower runs like shit until it is completely warm. Ethanol is not its friend.

89 Meh, I know I'm becoming a bit of broken record but I still think its way too early to pick who among the boring white males based on some ethereal notion of electability when the field is in such a state of flux. Cain seems like a sane voice for free markets and smaller governments and I want the GOP dragged that direction, even if they are kicking and screaming like a two year old all the way. I'd like Newt (did the DC water change you?) and Huntsman to realize they are going nowhere and drop out. I'll see who else jumps in. In a few months or so I can figure out whether T-paw is preferable to Mitt if a better alternative hasn't emerged (feel free to draft someone if you are a mover & shaker)

90
T-Paw played the part of Goober in Dukes of Hazzard, and on one occasion cleaned the General Lee's windshield.

91

43 That's a great attitude you have there, but I'm going to fight. Want to join me?

I would if I thought it would result in any change. It won't. The Quislings have control of the media and the armed forces. Police and all parasitical goverment employees. They determine what votes are counted and for how many times each flavor of vote is counted.

The 2012 election is an election in name alone. It will not result in what the actual vote is. The Quislings have won.

So no, I don't want to join you. I want to expire, die, give up the ghost, pine for the fjords. I want to be a corpse so I don't have to watch my grandchildren grow up as slaves.

92 12 Still tellin' you guys:  his name's "Pawlenty." 

Not getting elected with that name.  Nope.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (x3YFz)

What are you talking about?  He's got a great built in Internet meme slogan.

"Is he enough?"

"Why yes, he's Pawlenty"

93 86 I see some are only conservative until their government handout is threatened. We truly are fucked as a country.

Posted by: Gimme Gimme Gimme at May 25, 2011 03:45 PM (qCIL0)

Yup.  Pretty sad, isn't it?

94

It's not anti-ethanol anyway.  It's Anti ethanol subsidies.

95 Speaking of the volt, I heard GM is soon adding a 2nd shift to the Volt plant and hopes to do a 3rd also...are people starting to actually buy that pos?

They got a lot of pre-orders. The low number of vehicles officially sold since it went on sale is due, as near as I can tell, to the fact that they're doing a very slow production ramp-up in the early months.

96

When ethanol subsidies threaten the federal budget in the same way health care expenditures threaten the national budget, I'll view the Romney/Pawlenty comparison on this as fair

97 K....so I don't trust him all that much just like I don't trust Rick Perry.

What's the point?  We're all boned anyway.  I'll just take a Republican fucking at this point over a Democrat BOHICA fucking.

98

Did I mention that 2-stroke outboards run like shit on ethanol? Like shit, coughing, missing, with a dose of cutting out tossed in. Thank you President fuckhead.

Posted by: maddogg at May 25, 2011 03:37 PM (OlN4e)

Well that's fucking it. Fuck ethanol and FUCK YOU OBAMA!

(I have a '63 Evinrude Sport Four 80 horse that pushes a '59 Squall King cuddy cabin that I'm slowly bringing back to life. It's not 2 cycle, I just like telling Obama to fuck off and talking about boats in general.)

99 95 12 Still tellin' you guys:  his name's "Pawlenty." 

Not getting elected with that name.  Nope.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (x3YFz)

What are you talking about?  He's got a great built in Internet meme slogan.

"Is he enough?"

"Why yes, he's Pawlenty"

Posted by: buzzion at May 25, 2011 03:47 PM (oVQFe)

Need to follow that with "Tip your waitresses and try the veal."

100 Sigh. Well spotted Russ. Still, there is no perfect candidate. This does tone down my enthusiasm for him a bit but I will bet Pawlenty at least knows what year it is. From your link:
 
MinnesotaÂ’s increased ethanol mandate will not take effect unless a waiver can be obtained from the US Environmental Protection Agency.
 
Since it is a 2008 article (coincidence??), has such a waiver been granted? My bet is yes.

101

The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

So says "Empire of Just Eradicate Fiddle Faddle."

102 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 03:45 PM (1ODi+)

Not true. Aren't the bags filled with corn for Cornholing?

103 Damn sock. And that's an honest question. I would have no problem with a perfectly flat tax.

104
Well, Ace supported TARP, and I thought *opposing* DADT was the liberal position given Obama's maneuvers on it.  Regardless, Palin's not running, and at this point I think Perry looks pretty good.

Posted by: Ian S. at May 25, 2011 03:41 PM (tqwMN)

A bit premature don't you think? She just spent a million on a two hour movie premiering in Iowa to possibly prelude a campaign. People here might not be big on Palin but to think she is not running is kind of well... not paying attention. Perry has said he is not running but you think he is?

105

Just want to make sure all the "real conservatives" are on board with cutting other people's socialism, and only other people's socialism.

Well, we've already been told repeatedly that certain people's socialism is sacred/politically inviolate (current SS and Medicare recipients). We're told that this is smart and savvy and not to be questioned. And we've said repeatedly that we still have future generations in the gunsights (they will have to pay more, they will have fewer, if any benefits).

 

That's why we sometimes hear the call for across the board cuts. It's the only way to avoid this.

106 Anyone care for a DNA-schmer? Non? I'm kinda bored sitting with my "stick-up-her-ass" wife who only puts out during full moons. Man, I'm bored....

107 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 03:45 PM (1ODi+)

Broaden your horizons! Tito's Vodka (from Texas) is made from corn, and it's a nice, smooth drink. Or so my wife tells me. I can't stand the stuff. I like Bourbon too.

108 I was for ethanol, until I discovered it was not made from porn.

109 No blood for corn!!

110
Speaking of the volt, I heard GM is soon adding a 2nd shift to the Volt plant and hopes to do a 3rd also...are people starting to actually buy that pos?

The US Government placed an order for 101 Volts this week, and that's just the first round of taxpayers largess to support Obama Motors.  More Volt orders to come.

111 98 Speaking of the volt, I heard GM is soon adding a 2nd shift to the Volt plant and hopes to do a 3rd also...are people starting to actually buy that pos?

They got a lot of pre-orders. The low number of vehicles officially sold since it went on sale is due, as near as I can tell, to the fact that they're doing a very slow production ramp-up in the early months.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 25, 2011 03:47 PM (jPPat)

If I pull up next to you at a stoplight and you're in a Volt (or a Prius) I laugh and point.  Try it.  It's hilarious.  Lots of this around the Whole Foods parking lot.

112 I didn't say he was a liberal, I said he had a whole smorgasbord of liberal crap.

Look at his record. The "on the issues" site actually rates him to the left of Romney and Huck.

113

"Farmers' socialism! Let's keep that gravy train running because socialism for farmers is really the American way."

=======================

Collective farms are the wave of the future!  Power to the Peasants!

 

114 111 I was for ethanol, until I discovered it was not made from porn.

Posted by: Cherry π at May 25, 2011 03:50 PM (+sBB4)

Ya can't spell Ethanol without "Han". Luke get off of Leia, wanna know a secret, she's ya sister!

115 @107: I read elsewhere that the movie is *not* being made by her, it's some fanboy blowing a few million.

And here's a tip: I like Palin, I really do, but you're exactly the kind of person that makes Ace's occasional psychotic episodes seem justified.

116 111 I was for ethanol, until I discovered it was not made from porn.

Posted by: Cherry π at May 25, 2011 03:50 PM (+sBB4)

/nods

117

When ethanol subsidies threaten the federal budget in the same way health care expenditures threaten the national budget, I'll view the Romney/Pawlenty comparison on this as fair

Posted by: Paper

 

All market distortions are a threat of some degree. All pandering to interest groups, or feel good pressure groups are a threat. All diversions from the business of the country is a threat. All things that make business ad legitimate life in this country harder are threats.

Agreed, we shouldn't hide behind one, and yes there are priorities. But these are all of a kind.

118
Chevrolet Volt's come standard with Obama '12, Rainbow, and Fuck George Bush bumper stickers.

119 Posted by: Inspector Asshole at May 25, 2011 03:47 PM (b8wlG)

Nah, I think Dylan Thomas had it just about perfect.
This is a wonderful metaphor for what you suggest is happening.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

120 115 I didn't say he was a liberal, I said he had a whole smorgasbord of liberal crap.

Look at his record. The "on the issues" site actually rates him to the left of Romney and Huck.

Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 03:51 PM (M9Ie6)

He's the perfect Republican candidate, then!

121

#108

But isn't this obvious. The Republicans campaigned on 'Mediscare' not even a year ago. They have to do this.

This is the ridiculousness that is politics right now. We spent years building a socially conservative, fiscally moderate coalition of older voters, evangelicals, and (they'll be here soon Rove promises!!) younger, demographically important Hispanic voters.

The Republicans aren't placed politically to say anything about current beneficiaries of SS and Medicare because of ridiculous past decisions that most Republicans won't repudiate.

Even with all that, I still think we can pull it off in 2012 if we run a campaign on the economy with someone viewed as an honest, fair broker. If not, it will be time for a large electoral realignment.

122 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff

You'll take away my Cap'n Crunch when you pry it from my cold cracked cereal bowl.

123 107
Well, Ace supported TARP, and I thought *opposing* DADT was the liberal position given Obama's maneuvers on it.  Regardless, Palin's not running, and at this point I think Perry looks pretty good.

Posted by: Ian S. at May 25, 2011 03:41 PM (tqwMN)

A bit premature don't you think? She just spent a million on a two hour movie premiering in Iowa to possibly prelude a campaign. People here might not be big on Palin but to think she is not running is kind of well... not paying attention. Perry has said he is not running but you think he is?

 

Flapjackmaka - methinks it ultimately comes down to a race between AOBO versus AOBS. I know Ace disagrees. But he was pushing Daniels and Ryan and we both know their no shows.

124 Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 03:51 PM (M9Ie6)

Fine. I'll stipulate that he has all sorts of liberal baggage. Who do you suggest we run against Obama?

And the person should have a chance of winning. Otherwise a Sowell/Bolton ticket would be wonderful.

125 121
Chevrolet Volt's come standard with Obama '12, Rainbow, and Fuck George Bush bumper stickers.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 03:52 PM (cwFVA)

Honestly, as a physicist, I would love to see someone solve the power/battery issue.  However, no matter how good it is I'll never buy a union made car.  Ever.

126 Fuck Pawlenty.

127

Jeebus what horseshit.

I was onboard with ethanol when it first came out, I was thinking about investing it. I even kicked around trying to start a refinery. I thought it was, could be the answer. It turned out it wasn't.

Are we going to try and hold every past mistake anyone made trying something new against them? What matters is where they are today and if that can beat Obama. The beating Obama part is the most important to me. I'd vote for any of them over fucking Obama.

If he wins another term he will get at least two Supreme Court nominations. After that anything he wants to do will be legal. The only thing that will save us from that is if we go broke and break out in civil war before it happens.

I suggest we end the circular firing squads, quit writing democrats attack ads for them and work on getting the best candidate we can without using a scorched earth policy to do it.

128

#120

I completely agree with that. I have no faith in politicians but an unwavering confidence in markets.

In the world of politics though, as hard as it is, there have to be decisions made about 60% vs. 75%.

129 125 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff

You'll take away my Cap'n Crunch when you pry it from my cold cracked cereal bowl

 

Please note that bourbon is an American invention. Kennedy's drink scotch, real men drink bourbon. Pass it on.  

130 If you could make ethanol from porn, you could even make it while you are on a plane.

131 @ ErikW, That '59 cuddy cabin - will that be your fishin' boat or are you gonna make it fuckable? And... Broaden your horizons! Tito's Vodka (from Texas) is made from corn, and it's a nice, smooth drink. Or so my wife tells me. I can't stand the stuff. I like Bourbon too. Vodka is for women and guys named Chad. And I don't take my wife's advice on booze, either. Like some filthy dago's opinion has any validity. They can't even testify in court.

132 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Damn, bending over for Rahm once a week does not make you a homo. Servicing the Ghetto Boys Choir on the other hand....

133

#108

But isn't this obvious. The Republicans campaigned on 'Mediscare' not even a year ago. They have to do this.

This is the ridiculousness that is politics right now. We spent years building a socially conservative, fiscally moderate coalition of older voters, evangelicals, and (they'll be here soon Rove promises!!) younger, demographically important Hispanic voters.

The Republicans aren't placed politically to say anything about current beneficiaries of SS and Medicare because of ridiculous past decisions that most Republicans won't repudiate.

Even with all that, I still think we can pull it off in 2012 if we run a campaign on the economy with someone viewed as an honest, fair broker. If not, it will be time for a large electoral realignment.

Posted by: Paper

I did not say that this was not the case. I am pointing out that we are perpetuating a double standard for the sake of expediency, and this creates friction, some of which we're seeing here. That the ends justifies the means does not change the means.

134 We're just going to keep fighting for White People Socialism, I guess (aka prudent investments in America's future).

135 131

#120

I completely agree with that. I have no faith in politicians but an unwavering confidence in markets.

In the world of politics though, as hard as it is, there have to be decisions made about 60% vs. 75%.

Posted by: Paper at May 25, 2011 03:56 PM (VoSja)

Having traded stocks for the last 5 years I've arrived at 1 conclusion:  it's all rigged.  Only difference between markets and lotto is you get to hold your numbers until they come up....IF they come up.

136

#136

You are right, and it causes so much trouble.

If you look at the Republican electorate, we have some of the strongest opponents and supporters of entitlement spending.

137
The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff

You're in a heap of trouble boy!

138 excuse me, whether or not this "blended tax credit" can be justified, as Pawlenty once did, is not the question. DO. WE. HAVE. EXTRA. MONEY? No? We don't? Then guess what, some marginally justifiable things will have to be cut. But watch all the "True Conservatives" tell us that only other shit needs to be cut.

139 And the person should have a chance of winning.

Is there anyone here that doesn't know that I consider "electability" a bogus issue?

Remember, only McCain can beat Hillary and he'll deliver us some blue States!

140 137 We're just going to keep fighting for White People Socialism, I guess (aka prudent investments in America's future).

Posted by: ace at May 25, 2011 03:58 PM (nj1bB)

You been at the Val-U-Rite today?  Last week or so you've been on a short fuze, my man.

141 "Like some filthy dago's opinion has any validity."

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 03:56 PM (1ODi+)

If she's like the ones I used to know, "top or bottom?" is the only input that matters.

142 Pawlenty is talking the talk now and it's highly doubtful he would walk it back. I have no problem with people's positions evolving. Far too often this is mislabeled as flip flopping. Reagan was a democrat and sign the most liberal abortion bill of it's time. His positions evolved.

143 Who is Ace arguing with?

144 >>146 Who is Ace arguing with?


Who cares, he's on a roll

145 134

Vodka is for women and guys named Chad. And I don't take my wife's advice on booze, either. Like some filthy dago's opinion has any validity. They can't even testify in court.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 03:56 PM (1ODi+)

This is one "filthy dago" that sort of takes exception to the racial epithets.  Knock it the fuck off.

146

That '59 cuddy cabin - will that be your fishin' boat or are you gonna make it fuckable?

Dude, I've banged her half a dozen times already. Strangely enough, I named her Neon Moon after the Brooks and Dunn song. I hope she hasn't heard it.

Yeah, some fishing up on Lake Erie and generally cruisng and enjoying fruity drinks.

147
But watch all the "True Conservatives" tell us that only other shit needs to be cut.

Posted by: ace

 

Cut it all.

Ethanol

PP abortions

Big Bird

abortions for Big Bird

Hearings against Toyota when we own a stake in car companies

demand departmental budgeting

balanced budget amendment

surtax for five years on persons leaving government service ( to include deferred compensation)

148 BTW, cut all the Farm Subsidies while you're at it. I can see situational subsidies where, for national security purposes, we maintain a certain level of doemstic production. I don't think we should be importing all our wheat or corn, etc. But that's it.

149 I completely agree with him, by the way. I just want to know who to get pissed at.

150 And here's a tip: I like Palin, I really do, but you're exactly the kind of person that makes Ace's occasional psychotic episodes seem justified.

Posted by: Ian S. at May 25, 2011 03:52 PM (tqwMN)

Yeah, cause what I said just now was so unreasonable. The problem with people like you, is well and it seems ace and many here, have a case of vaginitis and at the mere mention of Palin, your brain matter is put all over the floor.

151 >>Remember, only McCain can beat Hillary and he'll deliver us some blue States! There was one person here last cycle who made that argument. One. It's not the only issue but a candidate must be acceptable to a much broader electorate than just the base. If you think electability isn't an issue you're nuts.

152 "Is there anyone here that doesn't know that I consider "electability" a bogus issue?"

Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 04:00 PM (M9Ie6)

Then what's the point? Political purity? Fine. Sit on your porch with a glass of bourbon and yell at the kids to stay off your lawn. That's all the power you will have without actually participating in the political process and fighting for the best candidate who will do as much as possible to halt this country's slide into oblivion. And that means electability. You can't have it both ways, and I have read enough of comments to know that you are smart enough to understand that.

Taking a stand is great, but this is a fight that WE MUST WIN!

153 Who is Ace arguing with?

Posted by: right at May 25, 2011 04:02 PM (XF91n)

Russ.

154

Please note that bourbon is an American invention. Kennedy's drink scotch, real men drink bourbon. Pass it on.  

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 03:56 PM (Q5+Og)

Don't you foist those Kennedys onto my demographic. Dewar's, Chivas, and all those other "my first scotch" blended turds don't count.

155 This place has been goddam vicious the last week.  Circular fucking firing squad is what we have here. /shakes head in dismay.

We're all on the same side, yes?

156 Worrying about "racial epithets" is quite childish.

157 Ethanol should be used as food, not fuel.

158 159 Worrying about "racial epithets" is quite childish.

Posted by: right at May 25, 2011 04:07 PM (XF91n)

Fuck off.  /reloads

159
We're all on the same side, yes?

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:07 PM (x3YFz)

Yes, with the exception when it's time to divvy up the baubles, beads, and pussy.

160 Remember, only McCain can beat Hillary and he'll deliver us some blue States!

There was one person here last cycle who made that argument. One.

It's not the only issue but a candidate must be acceptable to a much broader electorate than just the base. If you think electability isn't an issue you're nuts.

Posted by: JackStraw

 

Who here thought that McCain was the choice of the base? McCain was insulting conservatives at the onset and both he and this site were later complaining that conservatives were failing to show sufficient enthusiasm. He was billed as the guy who supposedly was loved by all, and had the Dem friends, media appearnaces and scrapes with Bush to prove it. And then the Dems annointed Obama and they ripped him.

161 >>We're all on the same side, yes?


Of course. Except for the dirty wops.

162

Rick Perry for prez.

Although there is a rumor that he is gay, just saying

163 164 >>We're all on the same side, yes?


Of course. Except for the dirty wops.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 25, 2011 04:09 PM (1fB+3)

I see what you did there.

164 This place has been goddam vicious the last week.  Circular fucking firing squad is what we have here. /shakes head in dismay.

We're all on the same side, yes?

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:07 PM (x3YFz)

I see it more as a circle jerk with Ace as the Pivot Man.

165

Direct ethanol subsidies may equal only $5 billion, but that's the money sent directly from the Gubmint. What's the total on the subsidies the corn growers get considering the 15% of ethanol that is in every gallon of gasoline in North Carolina? Kind of a more direct subsidy straight outta my pocket, no IRS needed. Not sure how other states work it, but people around here occasionally get worked up about it. Apparently the State wasn't required to tell anyone (or label anything) when they switched to the mandatory ethanol %. Not sure how the whole thing came about, but people do still bitch about reforming the rules. Of course, NC has plenty of Agriculture of our own, so I imagine "it's complicated".

Anyway, I hate the mandates as much as the money. I'm not into "oaths" or any stagey stuff like that, but I'd like to see a policy of ending mandates/subsidies as a pre-requisite for nomination. Same on Obamacare waivers. Same on lifting the drilling/exploration bans.

166 This is one "filthy dago" that sort of takes exception to the racial epithets.  Knock it the fuck off. Non, monsieur. Not until the French-bashing around here stops. It offends ME. Or you could lighten up.

167 We're all on the same side, yes?


Of course. Except for the dirty wops.

Posted by: Dr Spank

We're cool now. But then we have bombs.

168 There was one person here last cycle who made that argument. One.

Well, I wasn't here for the primaries. At that time I was over at Townhall and there were a host of "electability" McCain people posting there.

Electability is a poor prediction at best a few months before the election. Two years before the election it is totally useless.

169 148 134

Vodka is for women and guys named Chad. And I don't take my wife's advice on booze, either. Like some filthy dago's opinion has any validity. They can't even testify in court.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 03:56 PM (1ODi+)

This is one "filthy dago" that sort of takes exception to the racial epithets.  Knock it the fuck off.

Old Joke - but good one: Have you heard about the new Italian tire? Dago through mud, dago through snow and when dago flat, dago wop wop wop. I'm allowed to tell this one since I married into to the family.

170 Of course. Except for the dirty wops.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 25, 2011 04:09 PM (1fB+3)

Word. Dagos piss me off. Then again I'm a dirty Scandi. Everything pisses me off.

171 61 Just want to make sure -- we're all still in favor of cutting other people's socialism, right? As usual -- other people's socialism? Our own socialism isn't socialism, of course, it's a prudent investment in America's future. Just want to make sure all the "real conservatives" are on board with cutting other people's socialism, and only other people's socialism. Because as long as we posture and preen and pretend it's not socialism when the government writes us a check or gives us a special "blenders tax credit," then it's okay. It's not socialism because we say it's not socialism. Socialism is what we give to the blacks. --------------- Yeah, I sound like a cobgobbler for Ace, but that was f****** epic! Winner!

172 We're all on the same side, yes?

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:07 PM (x3YFz)

Apparently not.

173 169 This is one "filthy dago" that sort of takes exception to the racial epithets.  Knock it the fuck off.

Non, monsieur. Not until the French-bashing around here stops. It offends ME.

Or you could lighten up.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 04:11 PM (1ODi+)

Oh hell I didn't know you were a white-flag-waving little girly girl.  I take back my objection: if you're french and found the stones to insult someone then, by god, good for you!

174

If you think electability isn't an issue you're nuts.

And the people who determine "electability" are ...?

Which I think primaries and, well, elections are determinative of.

I also think that the case for "pundits" being that measure are ...hilarious? elitist? bullshit?

175 "...pussy."

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 04:09 PM (cwFVA)

Not this crowd.

176

Yeah, cause what I said just now was so unreasonable. The problem with people like you, is well and it seems ace and many here, have a case of vaginitis and at the mere mention of Palin, your brain matter is put all over the floor.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at May 25, 2011 04:05 PM (u8JAM)

Kid, your case of "vaginitis" is owing to the fact that you emerged from your mother a scant 17 years ago, have never cast a vote for anything or anyone in your life, and now presume to lecture the rest of us who've been through a few election cycles and have seen the Palins, the Pawlentys, the Cains, and the Romneys of American political life play out before.

That's what's unreasonable.

177 Oh, and let's get rid of the sugar subsidies and tariffs while we're at it, that'd also help lower food costs.

178

We need to stop the 'McCain was the problem' nonsense.

Mike Huckabee was the conservative who caught fire in 2008. Huckabee. This is who Iowa and primary voters decided was the outsider to take on the more estabilshment Romney and McCain.

We ran polls here where Huck doesn't get more than a few percent of the vote with Romney not much ahead of him, yet we can see that Republican primary voters overwhelming like those two (when they were both polling).

Some liberal media isn't picking these candidates. Republican primary voters are. The Republicans in the party (to say nothing of the political leadership) aren't as conservative as you think they are.

179 173 Of course. Except for the dirty wops.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 25, 2011 04:09 PM (1fB+3)

Word. Dagos piss me off. Then again I'm a dirty Scandi. Everything pisses me off.

Posted by: ErikW at May 25, 2011 04:12 PM (zXYtA)

I WAS gonna say that we dagos have the hottest women, but you scandis field some pretty fine ladies.  I'll have to consult my pasta.

180 >>We're all on the same side, yes? You ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait until the primaries really get cooking. There will be blood.

181 EOJ are you really a cheese eating surrender monkey french or one of those crawfish sucking good time french?

182 My mom says there's a lot of Italians in Italy.

183 157

Please note that bourbon is an American invention. Kennedy's drink scotch, real men drink bourbon. Pass it on.  

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 03:56 PM (Q5+Og)

Don't you foist those Kennedys onto my demographic. Dewar's, Chivas, and all those other "my first scotch" blended turds don't count.

At one point old Joe Kennedy had ownership interests in all the UK scotch distilleries. The family gets a cut of every bottle of scotch sold in the US to this day. My understanding is the payments are to the family trust fund so they don't get taxed. Scotch is nasty europeeing swill. Americans drink bourbon.

184

I WAS gonna say that we dagos have the hottest women...

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (x3YFz)

Especially those cute little mustaches.

185 84

I think the difference might be Romney is hangoing Romneycare around his neck and Pawlenty is taking ethanol off his.

I am not even on the Pawlenty express, but this seems about an order of magnitude or two less important, particularly if he's sincerely changed his mind (and telling Iowans "we need to stop these subsidies" - which will surely cost him dearly in Iowa) well that sounds pretty fuckin sincere to me.

This.

As was already pointed out. Palin has some shaky positions on other items. Reagan was a Dem who signed pro abortion legislation. etc etc. Nobody is perfect. Positions can change not just due to political expediency, sometimes a change of view happens. Think about your own self. Do you feel the same way you did about things 20 years ago? I am not naive enough to believe that it's always 100% pure intentions of a politician either. But I've met Pawlenty a few times. He's a genuine dude. It was pretty gutsy to go into the heart of corn country and call for an end to subsidies. When Romeny stands up and denounces his decision regarding RomCare then I'll give him the same quarter.

186 One other thing on Pawlenty and "electability". At RCP he is consistently polling at or near the bottom in all the polls. So according to those polls he is "not electable".

187 177

If you think electability isn't an issue you're nuts.

And the people who determine "electability" are ...?

Posted by: davisbr at May 25, 2011 04:14 PM (uCShA)

they "are" the 80% of the voting electorate that doesn't bother to do their research on their candidates.  That 80% is the reason dogs and prisoners get elected.  It sucks, but it is what it is.

188

  So the guy who mandated ethanol use in his state (at a 20% rate, instead of the regular 10% that he'd already mandated) is the champion here, and the guy who points out the inconsistency is the ethanol shill?

 

  Did I just jump back in a time machine & revisit the Delaware primary?

 

  (Dave, check the other link.  The one from 2008.  He was still full speed ahead on ethanol mandates, and since his "courageous stand" on ethanol didn't include ANY repudiation of his original positions, I assume that he's still on board that train.)

189 Americans drink bourbon.

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (Q5+Og)

Maker's Mark, baby.

190 187

I WAS gonna say that we dagos have the hottest women...

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (x3YFz)

Especially those cute little mustaches.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (cwFVA)

It's a good think no Italian women post here, or you'd be sleepin with the fishes, sir.

191 or one of those crawfish sucking good time french? Oui. Terrebonne Parish.

192 Posted by: Flapjackmaka at May 25, 2011 04:05 PM (u8JAM)

That's what's unreasonable.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (FYCiJ)

Well said.

And...Flapjack, you were just treated with more respect than most people get here when they say things that are similarly poorly thought-out.

193 Is he the one who shat a man in Reno, just to watch him die?

194 193 187

I WAS gonna say that we dagos have the hottest women...

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (x3YFz)

Especially those cute little mustaches.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (cwFVA)

It's a good think no Italian women post here, or you'd be sleepin with the fishes, sir.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:19 PM (x3YFz)

I just opened the door to at least 30 comebacks to that, didn't I?  Well, let's have them...

195 Or, as I have been told, "Swamp N*gger."

196 Americans drink bourbon.

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (Q5+Og)

My preacher yard man would come by on Saturday for payment, and when asked if he wanted a drink he would respond, "give me three fingers and a dash of water."  He was an American, a black American, a wonderful but now dead American.  It was the bourbon.

197

>>  since his "courageous stand" on ethanol didn't include ANY repudiation of his original positions

Yeah, except for rolling into your neighborhood last week and saying "no more of this", which as mentioned, will surely cost him Iowa.

Other than that particular repudiation, you're probably right.  But that was a humdinger, wasn't it?

198

I WAS gonna say that we dagos have the hottest women, but you scandis field some pretty fine ladies.  I'll have to consult my pasta.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (x3YFz)

We Kikes (the Israeli kind) have some hotties in that competition.

199

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (x3YFz)

Yeah, we do have some pretty smoking babes. They're all whores though so depending on your point of view that can be good or bad.

I dated an Italian chick once and she was frickin' amazing in bed. Her mom hated me though.

200

190: my point T9. Indeed. Crap shoot. Don't count anyone out.

201 198 Or, as I have been told, "Swamp N*gger."     I haven't heard that one in a long time. LOL. Do they still make Dixie Beer?

202

It's a good think (sic) no Italian women post here, or you'd be sleepin with the fishes, sir.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:19 PM (x3YFz)

Sir....I am the fish!

203 Especially those cute little mustaches.
Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (cwFVA)

They have grass on the hills too. IYKWIMAITYD

204 Romney is denouncing Obamacare and has been doing for a while. Obamacare and 'Romneycare' are not the same in practice or support. You are doing the work for the Dems in repeating it but it's understandable though aggravating.

205 202

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:15 PM (x3YFz)

Yeah, we do have some pretty smoking babes. They're all whores though so depending on your point of view that can be good or bad.

I dated an Italian chick once and she was frickin' amazing in bed. Her mom hated me though.

Posted by: ErikW at May 25, 2011

So did you marry her?

206

At one point old Joe Kennedy had ownership interests in all the UK scotch distilleries. The family gets a cut of every bottle of scotch sold in the US to this day. My understanding is the payments are to the family trust fund so they don't get taxed. Scotch is nasty europeeing swill. Americans drink bourbon.

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (Q5+Og)

No, he was involved in the importing of Dewar's, which is only associated with five distilleries. As an American, I drink what I want, where and when I want it. It does include bourbon, if that puts you at ease.

207 194 or one of those crawfish sucking good time french?

Oui. Terrebonne Parish.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 04:20 PM (1ODi+)

hey hey... good friend of mine from my drill instructor days was from Thibodeaux.  We'd make trips back to his mom's during the summer and that was quite possibly the best food I've ever had.

208 Calcasieu Parish

209 Her mom hated me though.

Waht??? Both 'Em??

210

Even with all that, I still think we can pull it off in 2012 if we run a campaign on the economy with someone viewed as an honest, fair broker. If not, it will be time for a large electoral realignment.

Posted by: Paper at May 25, 2011 03:54 PM (VoSja)

 

If Petey keeps fucking up the way he's been fucking up these last couple of years and especially the last couple of months, I'd think Alan Greene could beat him in a general election.

211 205

It's a good think (sic) no Italian women post here, or you'd be sleepin with the fishes, sir.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:19 PM (x3YFz)

Sir....I am the fish!

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 04:23 PM (cwFVA)

You just used (sic) on a typo on a blog.  You've got to be English.

212 209

At one point old Joe Kennedy had ownership interests in all the UK scotch distilleries. The family gets a cut of every bottle of scotch sold in the US to this day. My understanding is the payments are to the family trust fund so they don't get taxed. Scotch is nasty europeeing swill. Americans drink bourbon.

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:17 PM (Q5+Og)

No, he was involved in the importing of Dewar's, which is only associated with five distilleries. As an American, I drink what I want, where and when I want it. It does include bourbon, if that puts you at ease.

Buy American. Besides bourbon that allows you to by a real shitty car that runs on batteries. I would stick to the bourbon.

213

So did you marry her?

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:23 PM (Q5+Og)

 

Nah, things didn't work out. We're still friends and keep in touch. She became a zoologist, moved to Florida and now works for a non-profit center that cares for mentally disabled chimpanzees and married a guy who races dune buggies.

No shit.

214

You just used (sic) on a typo on a blog.  You've got to be English.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:25 PM (x3YFz)

A Cherokee injun who learned English with smoke signals, wampum juice, and whacky-tobacky.

215

The problem with all the 'federalist' justifications for Romney and Pawlenty is that just about any person that classifies themselves as a federalist is already a Republican.

The other 95% of the population probably would define 'federalist' as someone who is mean to federals.

We listen to Romney and Pawlenty talk about how state governance is different than federal governance and try to follow. The overwhelming majority just hears blah, blah, position change.

216 This is why mankind is doomed.  I, for one, am glad our space program is an utter failure:  it means we won't foist ourselves on the rest of the universe anytime soon.

Your typing close to my clients "Bozone Layer" cartoon.

217 We've got E85 out in California. Which we refine out here.

E85 is distilled not refined.

218 We'd make trips back to his mom's during the summer and that was quite possibly the best food I've ever had.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:24 PM (x3YFz)

I have friends who live in Slidell. I remain firm in belief that Creole and Cajun cooking are the finest examples of regional American cuisine.

219 Do they still make Dixie Beer? I hope not. I'd rather shotgun a tallboy of Sir Gaga's ballsweat. good friend of mine from my drill instructor days was from Thibodeaux I'm from Bourg. Very short distance away.

220 We distill E185 that goes down soooo smooooth.

221 Well damn.  I'm glad I haven't invested too much energy in T Paw.  This seems like a pretty reasonable attack on him.  He'll need to explain the ethanol mandate to get my support.

222 217

So did you marry her?

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:23 PM (Q5+Og)

 

Nah, things didn't work out. We're still friends and keep in touch. She became a zoologist, moved to Florida and now works for a non-profit center that cares for mentally disabled chimpanzees and married a guy who races dune buggies.

No shit.

Thats too bad. When their mommas don't like you, it makes the fucking that much sweeter. Good to know there is a non-profit for mentally disabled chimps. I'm thinking Obama would make a great spokesman for the organization.

223 218

You just used (sic) on a typo on a blog.  You've got to be English.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:25 PM (x3YFz)

A Cherokee injun who learned English with smoke signals, wampum juice, and whacky-tobacky.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 25, 2011 04:27 PM (cwFVA)

Well, I was close. 

224 I know a lot of people don't understand why some of us (Myself) take such an inflexible stance on the issue. But even a cursory examination of the process uncovers the insanity and borderline inhumanity which is ethanol mandates. They can only be characterized as a huge government kickback, that is a hidden multilevel tax on US citizens.

It takes 26 pounds of corn, on average to make 1 gallon of ethanol.
That 26 pounds of corn has about 46,000 calories (kcal), or, 182,000 BTUs of usable nutritional energy.
The process of converting corn to alcohol has a net output of about 60,000 BTUs per gallon. Which is a net loss of 122,000 BTUs or about 30,000 kcal, enough nutrition to feed 4 cows or pigs, or, 15 people, or, 70 chickens for one day.

And we do this to 40% of domestic corn. That's 140 million tons. Or an aggregate energy loss that is enough calories feed 118 million cows or pigs, 400 million people, or 2 billion chickens for one whole year.


And we do all this to support a govenment mandated market that would not exist on its own, to get a fuel that is only 66% as efficient as gasoline and more costly in $$$ to make. Which means it costs more $$$ to put in your tank and doesn't carry you as far. And it has the added benefit of driving up the cost of foods that rely heavily on corn. And we get taxed more/go further into debt to support the subsidy end of this government Mandate/Subsidy market scheme.

Now who here would like a free market solution that resulted in,
1. Cheaper Gas.
2. Better mileage.
3. Lower food prices.

No ethanol mandates, no ethanol preferential tax breaks.

225 good that Ace is coming out against all socialism ... who is the candidate demanding we end food stamps and medicaid?  We should drill more here, but is buying American corn which lessens foreign oil the same as Socialism?

Greenspan said we needed the free flow of ME oil ... and off to war we went  (our ME involvement has NOTHING to do with oil?) ... and after all that SUBSIDY for oil, we STILL get $100/brl oil. 

Another point ... we hear 4 rows of ten from corn go to ethanol ... but after the leftovers are fed to cattle, that number is 1.7 out of ten.  (even though the smart people hear mocked me for not knowing it was 7% ... fact is it is 50%)
http://fwd4.me/02Hp
Not saying the mandates or tax breaks are right, or popular ... but people sure seem adamant on this more than other more blatant/pure socialism.

226

Other than that particular repudiation, you're probably right.  But that was a humdinger, wasn't it?

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 25, 2011 04:22 PM (WvXvd)

  You mean his repudiation of ethanol "subsidies & tax credits"?  I may be a word nazi, but I don't think either one of those words is listed in the dictionary as "mandate".  But I could be wrong.  I'm not a true patriot, after all.

227 222 We'd make trips back to his mom's during the summer and that was quite possibly the best food I've ever had.

Posted by: tangonine at May 25, 2011 04:24 PM (x3YFz)

I have friends who live in Slidell. I remain firm in belief that Creole and Cajun cooking are the finest examples of regional American cuisine.

Posted by: ErikW at May 25, 2011 04:29 PM (zXYtA)

The only reason I didn't eaten myself to death is that we only went to his family's house once a year.

228 The only place for ethanol is in my jelly glass.

229

We're just going to keep fighting for White People Socialism, I guess (aka prudent investments in America's future).

I believe they call that 'national' socialism.

It's a 'third way' thing... something Clinton must have invented..

230 Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 04:18 PM (M9Ie6)

Then he won't get my support. I will support the candidate who has the best chance of beating Obama. If that is Pawlenty or Ryan or Palin or Huckabee or my 16-year-old or my left testicle -- it doesn't matter. Principle doesn't matter.

Winning matters.

231 17% of domestic corn Mike ... not 40% ... I suspect your other numbers are also wrong

232 why split hairs over ethanol subsidies.

I couldn't agree more. Reminds me of Rethuglicans splitting hairs over lying to a grand jury when what they really went after me for was a totally legal sex scandal.

233 You're from Lake Charles, polynikes? Dirty-ass Sabine.

234

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 25, 2011 04:30 PM (Q5+Og)

Heh.

Interesting sidenote to the story. She has been battling breast cancer and been undergoing periodic chemo treatments since 2002. She is the toughest human being I know.

235 Creole and Cajun cooking are the finest examples of regional American cuisine.
Posted by: ErikW at May 25, 2011 04:29 PM (zXYtA)

Definitely the most sophisticated. Very low incidences of throat, stomach and colon caner among those who are regular eaters too.

236 What MikeTheMoose typed.

237 No ethanol mandates, no ethanol preferential tax breaks.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 25, 2011 04:31 PM (0q2P7)

Ethanol subsidies are also helping to increase the price of bacon. That reminds me. Sub-tard, have you had bacon bourbon?

238 237 You're from Lake Charles, polynikes?

Dirty-ass Sabine.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 04:33 PM (1ODi+)

We've devolved into intra-county insults! lol

239

  And as far as his "courageous stand" COSTING him Iowa?  Are you retarded?  Unless he comes out and repudiates his support for mandates, he'll WIN Iowa going away.

 

  Like I said; tax credits are amateur, mandates are professional.  We'll pay extra taxes and still make out like bandits when President Pawlenty mandates the use of E20.

240 "And yeah, you are invested in ethanol subsidies aka "blenders tax credits."

Tax credits for Blenders? I'm in.

241 242 No ethanol mandates, no ethanol preferential tax breaks.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 25, 2011 04:31 PM (0q2P7)

Ethanol subsidies are also helping to increase the price of bacon. That reminds me. Sub-tard, have you had bacon bourbon?

No, but I have had country ham in bourbon sauce. Nice.

242 "At RCP he is consistently polling at or near the bottom in all the polls."

Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 04:18 PM (M9Ie6)

Check again. It looks like he is in the middle.

Romney: -6.3

Pawlenty: -14.1

Gingrich: -16

Bachmann: -18.3

Palin: -19.5

Paul: -8

Huntsman: -21

243

>> I may be a word nazi.

You may be a lot of things, picking nits comes to mind.

It's entirely possible that his statements last week come from the perspective of "we can't afford to do this" and he still loves the shit out of ethanol.  I don't know.  I do know he's right, and I do know he said so right there in the hog belly of the beast.

Since you are using the scare quotes around courageous stand, I assume you just think he's lying.  So let me ask you, what's the percentage in that?  Go to Iowa for crying out loud and lie, say we should end these when you really support them?  To lose the caucus there?

Do you have any idea how much sense that doesn't make?

Also, I am not a word nazi myself, so I can substitute "fan of ethanol subsidies" for "ethanol shill".

244 Yes EOJ. I graduated from Ryan Street High or as others know it , McNeese University.

245 Posted by: Russ from Winterset at May 25, 2011 04:19 PM (T4kFH)

Wow, could you take shit a little more personally? What other candidate has said anything at all about cutting ANY frickin' subsidies? The guy deserves credit for at least saying something. People are giving you shit for it? No kidding. You obsess on it like a 2 year old with his binky.

246

Did they take the poll in Utah? Huntsman: -21 WTF?

247 Pawlenty is saying one thing now but if he gets into Office he will govern as a RINO's RINO, just look at his record, it screams "Go Along to Get Along"

248 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Get away from my taco!

249 Russ from Winterset....
We'll pay extra taxes and still make out like bandits when President Pawlenty mandates the use of E20.

I saw how you did that. Are there any openings up there?

250 Both are big government conservatives posing as the opposite to get through the Republican primary.

I'm shocked.

251

Definitely the most sophisticated.

Posted by: De' Debil Hisself at May 25, 2011 04:34 PM (H+LJc)

Indeed! I cooked preofessionally for years (don't do it now) and learning to cook Cajun and Creole was the most enjoyable and valuable learning experience I've ever had in a kitchen.

252 >>You may be a lot of things, picking nits comes to mind. I think you meant nit picker. Sorry, Dave. I'm just trying to help.

253

Not saying the mandates or tax breaks are right, or popular ... but people sure seem adamant on this more than other more blatant/pure socialism.

Because, you goober, more blatant pure socialism is blatant socialism. It's less insidious.

And it's supported by socialists... not the people making up the only party that is tasked to stop it.

Seriously sell your own damn corn on your own or switch jobs.

You wouldn't much like it if I put a gun to your head and made you a buy a toaster oven, but that doesn't matter to much of anything and isn't at all hypocritical, so long as you take a consistent, principled stand in favor of whatever opportunistically benefits you at the moment.

254 Ok, you crazy people that live in my computer, I'm going to check how badly my stocks did today, feed my parrots, take out the trash and finish leveling my rogue in WoW (yes... WoW).  Be safe, and check your corners.

255 242 No ethanol mandates, no ethanol preferential tax breaks.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 25, 2011 04:31 PM (0q2P7)

Until Pawlenty actually SAYS "no mandates", I'm not going to give him credit for saying that.  Especially with his history of being the King of All Ethanol Mandates.

256 I'm not a true patriot, after all.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at May 25, 2011 04:31 PM (T4kFH)

Yes, because everyone considers someone disagreeing with them to be questioning their patriot credentials. /sarc off

257 E85 is distilled not refined.

E85 is almost a F*ing cocktail starter.

258

253 The larger point that all you homos are overlooking is that the only legitimate end use of corn is in the production of bourbon.

Get away from my taco!

 

Well we did leave out corn bread and grits. Tacos are imported from Mexico so they don't count.

259

To those who don't consider this farrago of eco-slush to be a "big deal", I say look around. Chances are that every car, bus or truck you see is running on some variation of the stuff. How many would be without the Gov't mandate?

The Libs always grasp the big picture, but this time they managed to grab the whole enchilada and nobody even noticed.

260

Indeed! I cooked preofessionally for years (don't do it now) and learning to cook Cajun and Creole was the most enjoyable and valuable learning experience I've ever had in a kitchen.

Posted by: ErikW at May 25, 2011 04:40 PM (zXYtA)

I'm betting your instructor was a female....

261

>> Sorry, Dave. I'm just trying to help.

Word nazi!

262

Read my lips:

NO MORE GREEN WEENIES!!!

Pawlenty - fuck him, he's outta here . . . next?

263 Bacon bourbon: You have to put the bourbon in a can or bowl or some other wide-mouth container. Some people will tell you to put an ounce of grease in there, but I think it comes out weak that way. Pour a pan's worth of drippings into the bourbon, stir it up and let it sit for a day. Then, put it in the freezer, so the grease can congeal. Get rid of the congealed grease, funnel the bourbon back into a bottle, and enjoy. It works best with really smoky bacon.

264

It's really too early for me to start picking my favorite primary candidate.  I want to see some more debates with "committed" candidates to find out who has the least warts.  Then I'll start supporting a primary candidate. 

The nice thing about it is that I think the line-up we have isn't all that bad.  And I'm sure there'll be more candidates jumping in as the summer goes on.

265 Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 25, 2011 04:43 PM (WvXvd)

Dave you weren't flying into Denver recently right?

266 270 Bacon bourbon: You have to put the bourbon in a can or bowl or some other wide-mouth container. Some people will tell you to put an ounce of grease in there, but I think it comes out weak that way. Pour a pan's worth of drippings into the bourbon, stir it up and let it sit for a day. Then, put it in the freezer, so the grease can congeal. Get rid of the congealed grease, funnel the bourbon back into a bottle, and enjoy. It works best with really smoky bacon.
So basically it is smokey fat suspended in bourbon. Interesting. Do you drink it neat or on the rocks?

267 Posted by: Russ from Winterset at May 25, 2011 04:19 PM (T4kFH)

Wow, could you take shit a little more personally? What other candidate has said anything at all about cutting ANY frickin' subsidies? The guy deserves credit for at least saying something. People are giving you shit for it? No kidding. You obsess on it like a 2 year old with his binky.

Posted by: Rocks at May 25, 2011 04:38 PM (Q1lie)

  He's not talking about cutting subsidies.  He's talking about tax credits.  There's a difference.  And he conveniently forgot to say "stop the ethanol mandates".  My guess?  He's trying to have it both ways.  Oppose ethanol tax credits, and still be the guy who brought us ethanol mandates.

  And pointing out the fact that Pawlenty's entire career has been one big Ethanol Mandate Orgy makes me Public RiNO #1?  That's just sweet sweet irony.

268 Check again. It looks like he is in the middle.

He is at 5% in the last poll (PPP Dem) what site are you looking at?

http://tinyurl.com/4ywaotu

269 Adidos - baseball is calling.

270 12 Still tellin' you guys: his name's "Pawlenty." Not getting elected with that name. Nope.
________

Whaddaya mean? The Constitution pretty much demands it. Right there in the good and pawlenty clause.

271

I'm betting your instructor was a female....

Posted by: Rocks at May 25, 2011 04:42 PM (Q1lie)

I wish! He was a tall drink of water from Baton Rouge. He was cool as hell.

272 I still haven't actually read a reason to keep ethonal subsidies. I've only read why they aren't as bad as people make them out to be. For instance, they are "real" subsidies or they don't take as much of the budget as some think. Still, those aren't actualy positives, they just smaller negatives.

273 Posted by: Russ from Winterset at May 25, 2011 04:46 PM (T4kFH)

Fine, he's talking about cutting tax credits. he's talking about cutting something. The point is he went to friggin Iowa and said listen, I think we should cut money going directly to you. Elect me and you will get less money. You know how I know it's courageous? Because it sent a guy like you from Iowa completely off the deep end.

Has any other candidate done anything so far except kiss ass in Iowa?
Point for Pawlenty. Game on.

274

I wish! He was a tall drink of water from Baton Rouge. He was cool as hell.

Posted by: ErikW at May 25, 2011 04:52 PM (zXYtA)

Oooooooooooh! I get it.

275 And yeah, you are invested in ethanol subsidies aka "blenders tax credits."

Farmers' socialism! Let's keep that gravy train running because socialism for farmers is really the American way.

Posted by: ace at May 25, 2011 03:28 PM (nj1bB)

  I'm not really interested in taking criticism on farm policy from a guy who thinks he doesn't need farms because all his food comes from the grocery store.  Maybe you could give me some advice on dating hot chicks when you're done schooling me on farm policy?

276 it is a binky. if people want to know why the government grows and grows and socialism advances and advances, look in the mirror.

277

Pawlenty is saying one thing now but if he gets into Office he will govern as a RINO's RINO, just look at his record, it screams "Go Along to Get Along"

Living here I can tell you that you don't understand what he had to deal with. The Dems of Democrat Farmer Labor Party (DFL) has had a stranglehold on this state for years. He stood his ground with them and won most of the battles. Not all but to do what he did with a senate slightly left of Marx is amazing. Yea, he has a few squishy issues but not enough to be a deal breaker. And I wouldn't classify him as a RINO.

278 Russ your "farm policy" is a lot like the Democrats' "unwed mothers policy." Same thing. Write checks, and then get huffy about it when someone says "Maybe I don't feel like writing that check any more." Everyone's got such a goddamn right to other people's money. All spending on "me" is justified and all-American, and not socialism, because i said so.

279 It's not an "obsession", it's an "interest".

280 Because, you goober, more blatant pure socialism is blatant socialism. It's less insidious.

thanks entropy, for demonstrating the same calm as mike the moose ... calling me stupid for something I didn't say, while he pushes his 40% number which is really 17% ... my link has some pretty charts for you guys that don't want to read.

Supporting a product we produce as opposed to fighting a war and then pleading with enemies to not raise prices ... which they do anyway ... OK ... I get it, just call me goober, that's convincing argument.

I grow 55 acres, just enough to get me curious enough to look into the ethanol subject.  Domestic production of oil is much closer to defense than toaster ovens.  Again ... I'm getting slammed just for correcting some BS here, not even for saying we need those mandates.

sheeesh ...

281

I still would really like to see a good, solid reason for having ethanol subsidies, or, as some would call them, tax credits/breaks/whatever.

Does it help reduce CO2? No.

Would it matter if it did? Only you believe in AGW, which I don't.

Does it help inflate the cost of gasoline, even if only slightly? Yes.

Does it help inflate the cost of food, even if only slightly? Yes.

So it's primary function, which was to reduce CO2, is a total failure. Are there secondary functions that ethanol was supposed to serve that I missed?

282 Very clever, Russ.

Start out attacking Pawlenty on ethanol mandates to establish your bona fides as uncorruptible regardless of you being an Iowa resident. Haul out the Romney strawman and cop a few feels. Moderate your stance on Pawlenty to where he's just as palatable to you as Romney and pray nobody notices that you just ran the okey doke on them.

Nice try, you ethanol-blending RINO bastard.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 03:39 PM (1ODi+)

 

  Say what you want about Iowa, but at least we can still choose to burn straight gas in our cars.  Tim Pawlenty's fellow Minnesotans?  Not so much choice there.

283

  I'm not really interested in taking criticism on farm policy from a guy who thinks he doesn't need farms because all his food comes from the grocery store. 

ace is a chicken-farmer-hawk

284 Russ, gotta tell you I have loved your last two posts about ethanol and ethanol subsidies. Those posts were very informative. You bringing up T-paws past about ethanol subsidies is also appreciated. However, I think you need to know that on the Rush Limbaugh show yesterday he admitted that he had changed his mind on some legislation he helped pass in Minnesota. Perhaps, this is one area, and AGW, that he has changed his mind.

285

Year 2016:

"...Welcome to USGas...Please select grade and lift handle...Regular... Unleaded... Diesel... Organic...Would you like a receipt, press Yes?..."

286

I really like this idea of selectively providing tax credits to manfacturers of inferior products in order to make them more competitive to superior products.

It makes a lot of sense to me.

I'm hoping we can use this idea to bring back CRT computer monitors. My desk just seems so empty now with all this extra space.

287

Mitt deserves credit for switching from pro-choice to pro-life (years ago).

T Paw deserves credit for abandoning support from ethanol subsidies.

Gingrich deserves the middle finger for abandoning the Ryan plan and calling it "right wing social engineering" (as if undoing any left wing social engineering was somehow wrong.)

It's high time for Mitt to reverse course on gov't run healthcare in Taxachusetts.

Flip flops in the fight direction should be encouraged.  Flip flops in the wrong direction should be severely punished.

288 Russ your "farm policy" is a lot like the Democrats' "unwed mothers policy."

Same thing. Write checks, and then get huffy about it when someone says "Maybe I don't feel like writing that check any more."

Everyone's got such a goddamn right to other people's money. All spending on "me" is justified and all-American, and not socialism, because i said so.

Posted by: ace at May 25, 2011 04:56 PM (nj1bB)

  Maybe if you could take a minute from your "Fuck that Palin Bitch" crusade and actually read what I wrote, you might notice that I haven't exactly advocated ethanol tax credits?  Do I think they're the Devil?  Not exactly.  I started out with a slight distinction between tax credits and subsidies, and now I'm giving you all the unpleasant truth that your shiny new "anti-Palin" nominee is being a little weasely on ethanol, the one issue that you're all kissing his ass over.  For this I get blasted as a fucking unwed mother tax sponge? 

  You sure you weren't on the O'Donnell bandwagon last fall, Ace.  Because I've heard this tune before.

289

I feel like such a weakling carrying around a phone that only weights a few ounces. When is the government going to to start subsidizing eight pound cell phones with enormous battery packs?

290 my left testicle
is an anti-low flow toilet (Brrr) single issue voter.  Apparently he's not allowed on the plane anymore either.

291 It's not an "obsession", it's an "interest".

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 25, 2011 04:56 PM (WvXvd)

 

Not that you'd know any better, Dave; but since we raise more cattle than we grow corn, high corn prices hurt us more than they help us.  But go ahead & call me biased if that makes you feel better.

292

Ok, so there is a distinction between the credits and subsidies.

Do you support either? Why?

293 292 As a metaphysicist maybe, while they're at it, they can solve the paradoxes in time travel and turn the volt into a time machine.
__________

Or at least a spaceship...

294 Pawlenty does need to explain his support for raising the ethanol content of gasoline to 20%, which is worse than subsides.

295

I miss the AMC Gremlin.

Why can't there be some sort of tax credit for producing those?

296 Say what you want about Iowa Very well. It smells like poop. I went to Iowa State in 1988 for an AAU wrestling tournament. Ames in the summer smells like a pile of pig shit that has been made love to by a hobo.

297

Sure, not many people want to live in a mud hut, but if there were a tax credit for these kinds of homes, it would really help people who live on muddy land make a living from that mud.

298 Ames in the summer smells like a pile of pig shit that has been made love to by a hobo. ... That was just your room, reserved for foreign dignitaries visiting our fair city.

299

Ok, so there is a distinction between the credits and subsidies.

Do you support either? Why?

Posted by: Paper at May 25, 2011 05:10 PM (VoSja)

  Good question.  I don't support subsidies, but I don't mind tax credits as much.  Tax credits don't come out of our pocket, they're just money that we COULD collect that we're choosing not to.  In order to take advantage of a tax credit, you have to be a tax payer first.  Subsidy payments?  All you have to have is ID so you can cash the check.

300 I only buy gas from stations offering No Ethanol

301 I went to Iowa State in 1988 for an AAU wrestling tournament. Ames in the summer smells like a pile of pig shit that has been made love to by a hobo.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at May 25, 2011 05:18 PM (1ODi+)

  I'm thinking that you had an unlucky draw & had to wrestle the guy who had the Taco John's bean burrito special before the match.  When you've got your nose buried in man-ass for an entire day, OF COURSE that's what you're going to smell the rest of the time, dummy.

302  I only buy gas from stations offering No Ethanol

Posted by: Steve In Tulsa at May 25, 2011 05:32 PM (f7ylG)

 

  Good for you.  If Tim Pawlenty were your governor, you wouldn't have that choice.

303 Technically, Russ, it was boy-ass.

304 I want a candidate who tells the truth about subsidies (and mandates). The truth is that they're all legalized theft, and that we're all the poorer for them. Period. Does this make me one of those awful fucking "purists" so many here are bitching about? Well, so be it. That's what primaries are for.

305

>>  but since we raise more cattle than we grow corn, high corn prices hurt us more than they help us.

I was assured the other day that food prices were practically unaffected.

306   What affects the growers margin doesn't always show up at the grocery store.  Maybe I confused you with "us".  I mean my family, not the State of Iowa in general.

307

 

I was assured the other day that food prices were practically unaffected.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 25, 2011 05:40 PM (WvXvd)

 

Well, if you're a feeder calf, and your diet is about 85% corn, then YEAH.  It's a big deal.

308 too bad corn isn't at $2.50 ... then we could be losing in exports on that front as well.  Do farmers stimulate the economy with their ill gotten gains?  Or should we borrow another trillion from china, give that money to the bankers and unions, and hope they spread it around properly?

"Notably the U.S. will maintain its favorable agricultural trade balance. In 2011, the U.S. will import $85.5 billion in ag products resulting in a positive trade balance of $41 billion."

Whether mandates are right or not, I don't think "socialism" means what you think it means.  Is it a handout to farmers, or is it taking a little away from our ME enemies?  Yeah, there is an ag lobby ... but aside from that ... it is good China pays more for our grain.  But if there really is a conspiracy against US ... surely they'd want to decimate one of our few areas of competitive advantage. ... Let's just give our grain away at break even ...

All hail ace's no socialism stance ... no food stamps .. no medicaid ... let's show how pure "we" are. 

btw, many farmers support the end to the "subsidies" ... but there are haters here I tell ya ... farmer hate is rampant cuz you crying assholes are used to the cheapest and safest food in the world.  Keep destroying the currency, and we'll give you something to cry about.

(this is my "fourth beer rant" ... maybe a little lame ... but Paul craig Roberts presents the real problem here ...

http://fwd4.me/02IA

309 ... maybe a little lame ... Maybe a lot lame.

310

>>  Maybe I confused you with "us".

Pronouns can be confusing, particularly when you aim them differently.

Anyway, as mentioned the other day, ethanol is a boondoggle, a product that cannot compete in the open market, achieves the barest objective of a dubious goal.  It should not be propped up, mandated, prayed to or mixed with vodka. If Pawlenty is jacklegging around on mandates, I'll keep it in mind but I'm pretty sure the horse is dead and was on life support anyway.

311 thx bugger ... but again, you make no point, just the trash talk.

Making china pay double for our grain does help US.  Do you disagree?

Importing less (enemy) oil because we use some ethanol does help US ... doesn't it?

Mike the moose is way wrong ... alamo assured me he knows smart people at the USDA ... Ace hates ALL socialism, except fighting wars so Iraq can sell us oil at $100/brl ...

but I'm just a country goober ... with a couple degrees, and I average in the 140's on those apparently bogus online IQ tests ... not that means I know much about farm economics, or socialism ... but good grief ... I sure don't see much logic here.  (have to brag on my IQ little to fight the "goober" comment from the dickhead, but really, I apply myself in other areas  ha)

I guess it's all about dipping balls in pudding and everybody on the same bandwagon ...

We have excess corn, and have found a better use for it than paying farmers not to grow it ... though we still have what ... 12 million acres CRP?

Maybe some political genius has figured ethanol hate is the hill to plant our flag on to show how fair we are, but I'd favor investigation and prosecution of the GS/congress collusion game that sold our reserve currency down the drain to China and Russia.  (oh, but the geniuses here assure me it is NOT about the currency)

http://fwd4.me/02IA

312

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 25, 2011 06:11 PM (WvXvd)

Fair enough.  Now direct some of that same attitude towards the "OMG Pawlenty is the BOMB for wanting to kill ethanol!" crowd, mmmmmKay?

313 I tell you, there is nothin' but LOVE on this blog.

And also, mutually-assured destruction.

314

I tell you, there is nothin' but LOVE on this blog.

And also, mutually-assured destruction.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at May 25, 2011 06:33 PM (bxiXv)

 

Come for the Love!

Stay for the MAD!

and the popcorn.

315 Russ, get Ace and some of the other know it all goobers out on your farm to work a few days and they would quickly learn you are smart and they don't know how to do shit.  Bunch of taken care of socialists (in reality) that don't realize how much they are taken care of by government taking from those that DO.  mwaa ha ha ha

316 Posted by: Illini bill at May 25, 2011 06:38 PM (M/gro)

Have you ever done ANYTHING but talk shit and brag about yourself? Because it's pretty tiresome.

317 Posted by: Illini bill at May 25, 2011 06:22 PM (M/gro) I'd reply, dude, but I'm terrified of your high IQ.

318

Illini Bill? The Illini Bill?

Ba Ha Ha! We'll see who has the higher IQ, buster!

I'm The Cincinnati Kid, see, and The Cincinnati Kid is the smartest kid this side of Decatur Dave, see...

319

>> Fair enough.  Now direct some of that same attitude towards the "OMG Pawlenty is the BOMB for wanting to kill ethanol!" crowd, mmmmmKay?

ahhh, no. Maybe you missed 90% of what I said, it's up there ^

320 thanks Dark Lord (no ego there) for the trash talk, and for not commenting on a single one of my points ... it is why the Ace of Spades morons are moving off my list of places to go. 

When someone that doesn't know me trash talks me, I give a couple credentials ... have NEVER done it before, but am ready to leave this stupid place. 

I don't give a shit how tired you are ... there are plenty of blogs with people with real world experience where I learn a lot .. here it seems like a bunch of young punks that talk shit ... there are some smart commenters maybe ... but they partly get run off.  

hats off to Vic ... I'd put him at top of my list.  There are many here that know much more than I do ... but there is plenty of crap too ... and the trash talk of Russ is evidence.  I corrected some BS ... no one wanted to hear it ... must blow smoke up Ace's ass I guess ... good for you.

321 since i'm anonymous bugler ... and leaving ... thought i'd throw that in there for the "goober" comment ... but it is true, and I've spent a lot of time reading on the ethanol thingy.

and you still have no point ... just the mocking .. which is two thirds of AOS comments ...

322 Posted by: Illini bill at May 25, 2011 06:52 PM (M/gro) Don't go away mad...

323 thx cincy .. i see your point ... wait, no I don't

ha

anyway, it is good to see how Russ is treated by the faithful Ace supporters ... "facts" presented here are not very factual ... 40% of corn for ethanol ... OOPS ... people swear they know smart people ... OK, I guess.

But I've been to churches like this before ... people get convinced and you are the devil if you derail their arguments. 

Enjoy stroking each other ... I've been here several years ... but less and less lately ... and since Breitbart reads comments her to get a feel ... it must be way out of my league.

hasta la vista babies ... I won't be back.

324 thx bugger ... not mad, just ready for greener pastures, less bullshit ... there really are a lot of very smart bloggers out there ... life is short.

good luck .. politics is not clean, and not really my bag anyway, if I want trash talk, i can find that plenty of places

cheers

325

321 (and post in general):

Despite being my #2/3 candidate at this moment, this post took away some of the pro-Paw feeling I got from his FL speech.

Mandates, subsidies, cap-and-trade are questionable even as "experiments" to someone with credible small-government instincts.  I'll give him a small + for admitting he was wrong (unlike Mitt on his own mandate) but neither of them should have been willing to go there in the first place.  If the policies were rammed down their throats it would be one thing, but where they were actually on board at one point - meh to them.

I get the feeling finding the lesser of the evils this primary season's gonna be a challenge.

326

>> I may be a word nazi.

You may be a lot of things, picking nits comes to mind.

It's entirely possible that his statements last week come from the perspective of "we can't afford to do this" and he still loves the shit out of ethanol.  I don't know.  I do know he's right, and I do know he said so right there in the hog belly of the beast.

Since you are using the scare quotes around courageous stand, I assume you just think he's lying.  So let me ask you, what's the percentage in that?  Go to Iowa for crying out loud and lie, say we should end these when you really support them?  To lose the caucus there?

Do you have any idea how much sense that doesn't make?

Also, I am not a word nazi myself, so I can substitute "fan of ethanol subsidies" for "ethanol shill".

Posted by: Dave in Texas at May 25, 2011 04:37 PM (WvXvd)

  Do I think he's lying?  No, I think he'll make an honest effort to stop the tax credits (what the rest of you keep calling "subsidies", but whatever, you're morons, right?).  I think that he'll kill the tax credits dead as disco; HOWEVER, if he doesn't make any commitments to kill the mandates at the same time, tax credits will be unnecessary.  Ethanol will explode and the production will DOUBLE in order to meet the new "forced demand" created by his mandates.

  Do you think he's going to go after mandates as well?  Well.....wouldn't his big speech taking on the ethanol interests be a good time to spell that out?  That would make sense.  Say "NO" to ethanol and say "NO" to ethanol mandates at the same time. 

  You might just have to accept that I know a LITTLE bit about what I'm doing here, Dave.  Pawlenty in Minnesota was a AGW true believer and used the power of the State to not only mandate E20 but spend a shitload of Minnesota tax dollars to create an extensive network of E85 gas pumps all over the State.

  Now E85?  THAT'S a dumbass boondoggle.  I wouldn't use E85 if my life depended on it.

  What's making me laugh here is that all the "purists" are going all-in on a guy who was the NUMBER FUCKING ONE government cheerleader for ethanol mandates in the United States of Fucking America while decrying all fuel uses of corn ethanol.  And they're not even making him back up from all his old positions.  Bit of a disconnect there.

327 "What's making me laugh here is that all the "purists" are going all-in on a guy who was the NUMBER FUCKING ONE government cheerleader for ethanol mandates" Not me. And tax credits = subsidy.

328 The biggest disconnect may be that most of America is dependent on government moving food and fuel from a few producers to many consumers.  Almost everyone is actually very dependent on government structuring everything for them, even as they claim to be above "socialism".   If/when push comes to shove, these freedom lovers will vote to confiscate or enslave farmers/producers to feed/heat/clothe them.

Now our government has allowed power players to enrich our enemies and move our production to their shores.  Goldman Sachs has been enriched, and a lot of stockholders are kept happy .... but our caretaker government sold us out.  The last hope for freedom (US) sold its productive assets to the third world so Goldman Sachs types could make trillions ...

Ethanol "subsidies" making farmers too rich is the problem?   Sorry to repeat ... but this seems the best summary of the real problem ... Paul Craig Roberts dips his balls for Max Keiser ... it is a must watch

http://fwd4.me/02IA

really ... this needs to be watched to see how China and Russia want to destroy our reserve currency status, and our current government is in support.  PCR is a Reagan guy ... 

329 Posted by: Illini bill at May 25, 2011 08:26 PM (M/gro) You weren't gone for very long.

330 I'm just playin out the string (thread) ... thanks for your concern  ... watch the video please 

331 When you have food and feul competing for the same materials and production assets you raise the price of foods. Burning what you eat was ALWAYS A stupid idea. Sure you need fuel to grow and harvest grain but increasing the pice of gas, and engine wear while also increasing the price of food was a MASTER STROKE of stupidity that was GUARANTEED to hurt people and the economy. Also sugar-cane ethanol works much better than that derived from grain. Do we use that? NO. WHY? Because we are suicidally stupid for the $#@#ing environment or whatever pointy headed asshole tells us the environment is at any given moment. Apparently we'd much rather have a few rich self loving authoritarian know nothings pat themselves on the back for helping mother earth than make sure everyone has affordable food to eat or killing off deadly malaria carrying mosquitos with DDT. We are dismantling ourselves in pointless submission to the uninformed whims of very stupid and evil people. Eventually we will pay for this foolishness in the very expensive coin of our own blood and misery, because mother nature certainly doesn't want to help us in return for helping it...what? remain abnormally static I guess?. It doesn't want anything. It can't. It's not alive or sentient in any way. Expensive energy due to artificial market manipulation or incompetence is likely to cause our doom and will certainly cause us to diminish and suffer.

332 http://pure-gas.org/ just saw on FB and thought folks might like to know if there is ethanol free fuel near them.

333 "Burning what you eat was ALWAYS A stupid idea."

right, I like my steak medium rare ... but if we have excess corn every year (which we do) ... would you rather it rot ( a slow burn) or be used for fuel?  Sugar cane is better, but we don't grow as much of that  AND it doesn't give back 50% for cattle feed.  The biggest portion of corn is used to feed livestock so you can eat your three BigMacs  and two Egg McMuffins every day.

334

Entropy blabbed ... Because, you goober, more blatant pure socialism is blatant socialism. It's less insidious.

And it's supported by socialists... not the people making up the only party that is tasked to stop it.

Actually, the party you say is tasked to stop socialism would certainly never demand an end to the socialist practice of food stamps or Medicaid.  YOU LIE !

btw ... even the Tea party is not far right, in case you got the wrong memo ... they are pretty center ... 70% want less government and lower taxes ... but they are charitable.

335 I propose mediation. 

The rules: all participants must take down two (2) Texas-State-Fair-sized ears of corn.  The participant whose stool provides the most elaborate firework display the subsequent morning holds the key to Ace's ethanol city.*

Illini Bill, I have no doubt you're belief behind a statement like "America is dependent on government moving food and fuel from a few producers to many consumers." I will just say I'm fairly confident your statement doesn't hold a lot of water in the meat and food processing industry here in my immediate world.  The government's acronym police actually provide quite the inverse outcome.  Just follow a slab of beef from a Waco, TX kill site to a Fort Worth restaurant and you'll see who is doing the pushing and shoving.

It's always the idealist that gets me in the mood for a little poetry:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html

*Only submissions made with 10mp camera or better are eligible.

336 " right, I like my steak medium rare ... but if we have excess corn every year (which we do) ... would you rather it rot ( a slow burn) or be used for fuel? Sugar cane is better, but we don't grow as much of that AND it doesn't give back 50% for cattle feed. The biggest portion of corn is used to feed livestock so you can eat your three BigMacs and two Egg McMuffins every day." Excess? Lol. No. The price of corn, rice, wheat, and meat are going way up due to increases in demand for corn and grain from ethanol producers who are STILL depending on subsidies to break even and clear a profit. Clearly the corn going into ethanol production is NOT excess that would be left to rot. It's corn and grain that would otherwise be feed and staple being turned into unneeded fuel supplement that damages old engines and is less efficient than pure gasoline. The land and labor that would grow corn to lower food prices is being used to grow bad fuel supplements. The ethanol subsidy dependent farmers, environmentalists behind the idea, and their pet politicians won't admit it, but THAT is what happened and it was predicted to happen by the people who said it was a dumb idea in the first place. No now it's a dumb idea that hurts consumers AND it's a boondoggle. Just wait until you find out that T. Boone Pickens never told you that to be reliable sources of power, wind-farms need to be backed up with about 90% of their capacity in CONVENTIONALLY generated power. Wait until you realize that without nuclear power a traffic system based on electrici vehicles takes MORE energy than using gas engines directly because you get the power from natural gas and kerosine turbines that lose energy as they turn the burned fuel's heat into electricity. Wait until you find out that most forms of solar power are too expensive, inefficient, and fragile and not ready either and the ones that ARE ready require a huge infrastructure of grids of large mechanized parabolic collectors with stirling engines at the focus. These futurist alternative energy schemes are ALL terrible and not ready for prime time but we pursue them anyway and it's the little people who get shredded by it.

337 I won't vote for any moron who supports an AGW stance.  PERIOD!

338 Russ, gotta tell you I have loved your last two posts about ethanol and ethanol subsidies. Those posts were very informative. You bringing up T-paws past about ethanol subsidies is also appreciated. However, I think you need to know that on the Rush Limbaugh show yesterday he admitted that he had changed his mind on some legislation he helped pass in Minnesota. Perhaps, this is one area, and AGW, that he has changed his mind. Posted by: Midnight Clad at May 25, 2011 05:05 PM This is pretty amazing. The guy has an active political history of doing things with which we adamantly disagree. And then he "changes his mind", coincidentally, when he's running for higher office. We used to call this type of thing 'politically expedient flip flopping'. But, with the amazing "T-Paw", he's apparently the first politician in history whom we can believe to be honest and not changing his mind for political reasons to win an election. Just gotta laugh at the Pawlenty-worship and excuse-making, especially after the same people worshiping Pawlenty in this manner were just ripping Palin-supporters for doing the same worship and excuse-making for Palin. 2004, John Kerry changing his mind = politically expedient flip-flopper. 2008, Mitt Romney changing his mind = politically expedient flip flopper. 2012, Tim Pawlenty changing his mind = first honest politician to learn lessons from past experience EVAH! Heh, just gotta laugh.

339 What's making me laugh here is that all the "purists" are going all-in on a guy who was the NUMBER FUCKING ONE government cheerleader for ethanol mandates in the United States of Fucking America while decrying all fuel uses of corn ethanol. And they're not even making him back up from all his old positions. Bit of a disconnect there. Posted by: Russ from Winterset at May 25, 2011 07:31 PM That's because his name isn't Sarah Palin. Had Palin had his background on all this, we would have had a mini-novel from Ace trashing Palin and all her supporters. But, since it's Pawlenty, it's "winning!" Unreal. Especially after Ace and the other co-bloggers here were just trashing Palin-supporters for this type of attitude. Just goes to show that Palin-supporters are no different than supporters of any other candidate. Everyone makes excuses for their own candidate and then smears and trashes all opposing candidates. No need to create Conservatives4Pawlenty to compete with Conservatives4Palin. AoSHQ has morphed into it after just hearing a few nice speeches from Pawlenty. Brilliant.

340 I didn't say he was a liberal, I said he had a whole smorgasbord of liberal crap. Look at his record. The "on the issues" site actually rates him to the left of Romney and Huck. Posted by: Vic at May 25, 2011 03:51 PM Is this the "On the Issues" site to which you're referring, Vic? Ironically, after all the criticism of Palin as a "populist", OtI rates Pawlenty as a "Populist Leaning Conservative". Granted, the site is pretty useless as their section on "Environment" for Pawlenty is empty. Pretty ridiculous that they can't seem to find any info on his stance on the environment the past 5-10 years, as it's all out there and pretty important.

341 Your blog is one of a kind, i love the way you organize the topics

342 Not saying the mandates or tax breaks are right, or popular ... but people sure seem adamant on this more than other more blatant/pure socialism.
Another point ... we hear 4 rows of ten from corn go to ethanol ... but after the leftovers are fed to cattle, that number is 1.7 out of ten.


40 % of the US crop is used to make ethanol.

And when I calculated the net gain output per gallon I gave credit for all remaining usable nutritional value, gluten, protien, corn oil, which is about 80,000 BTUs for the Fuel, +30,000BTUs for leftover nutrition minus 50,000 BTUs expended in processing. There are other ways to compare this, such as not counting processing energy or the actual BTUs of the ethanol, and concentrating solely on lost nutrition,

then assigning a net value to the production of the fuel and comparing its cost and energy density to gasoline.  That sort of this little schism keeps it nutrition-nutrition and energy-energy.

The results by playing this little shell game with the numbers actually make a stronger case against ethanol because you end up losing the 30K net of ethanol that I was actually giving you credit for as NOT LOST.

So it would look like this
180MBTU going in Nutrition 30MBTU coming out for a nutritional loss of 150MBTU
50MBTU of energy to process 80MBTU of ethanol products for a net gain of 30MBTU

So for 150MBTU of lost nutrition you get 30MBTU of usable energy? Good idea? no.

You are probably wondering where all the energy goes.

The thing every brewer knows that you ethanol folks forget is the yeast that is making the alcohol, it's doing work for you and it expects to get paid. Only a fraction of the BTUs of fermentable sugars ever become usuable BTUs of alcohol, well, because yeast have to eat too, remember they are giving off CO₂ during fermentation? That's usable energy going bye bye.

look at it another way.

see here if they have this straw...and they reach into your corn....you see, they eat your CORN!

343

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