March 15, 2014

Open Thread for Politics and News [Y-not]
— Open Blogger

Here's an open thread for those of you who don't want to talk about gardening.

It's looking like officials in Malaysia are now saying that the Malaysian Airlines jet was hi-jacked:

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) -- The Malaysian jetliner missing for more than a week was deliberately diverted and continued flying for more than six hours after severing contact with the ground, meaning it could have gone as far northwest as Kazakhstan or into the Indian Ocean's southern reaches, Malaysia's leader said Saturday.

Prime Minister Najib Razak's statement confirmed days of mounting speculation that the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 to Beijing was not accidental. It also refocused the investigation into the flight's 12-person crew and 227 passengers, and underlined the complicated task for searchers who already have been scouring vast areas of ocean.

Hat tip: Twitchy, where I go for most of my "I need to catch up on what's happening" needs.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 08:03 AM | Comments (261)
Post contains 166 words, total size 1 kb.

1 The Malay Mail Online has a map of where the plane was when it was pinged. http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/what-could-have-happened-to-flight-mh370

Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at March 15, 2014 08:28 AM (b6koZ)

2 I gotta say, this incident and the post-incident incompetence, makes my blood boil.

Posted by: Y-not at March 15, 2014 08:32 AM (zDsvJ)

3 Okay. Next: mojo, sea bass, lasers, fembots.

Posted by: eman at March 15, 2014 08:32 AM (AO9UG)

4 Sneaked in an open thread after the garden thread,

Posted by: Vic[/i] at March 15, 2014 08:33 AM (T2V/1)

5 Yeah, there are so many pictures on the garden thread, I figured this one would be appreciated for the phone morons.

Posted by: Y-not at March 15, 2014 08:35 AM (zDsvJ)

6 Alrighty then!  I'll just wait for tomorrow's revised report/speculation....

Posted by: Lizzy at March 15, 2014 08:36 AM (aq/zi)

7 The route seems carefully chosen to skirt edges of Flight Information Regions. http://airinfo.org/2014/03/14/disparition-du-vol-mh370-la-zone-de-recherche-etendue-a-locean-indien/

Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at March 15, 2014 08:38 AM (b6koZ)

8 Wifey just opened up a bunch of boxes that came in while she was down at the beach.  Kitteh is going crazy.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at March 15, 2014 08:38 AM (T2V/1)

9


I've read so many different, conflicting versions of this story, honestly, I don't know what to believe. 



Posted by: Lily at March 15, 2014 08:42 AM (dXCcK)

10 Anyone know what this is about? Posters of a tattooed Ted Cruz popping up around LA: http://preview.tinyurl.com/kwzmnub

Are those particular  tattoos supposed to indicate something - gang membership, skinhead, etc?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 15, 2014 08:43 AM (aq/zi)

11 In other news: French ambassador to the UN: 'Russia has just vetoed the UN charter' - @NickBryantNY Putin can't get away with this. Stern letter coming up.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 08:43 AM (jTKU5)

12 The plane's probable flight path reconstructed from satellite data indicates it flew into an area that is the Uyghur stronghold in China. Imagine that.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 08:45 AM (jTKU5)

13 I am going to break my silence on this to answer a question of Incompetence?

It is too soon to say that as fact.  The plane was a red-eye and Malaysian ATC had handed them off.  The plane was no longer their responsibility, instead the plane became Vietnam's responsibility.  Then Vietnam took a while to realize the plane had vanished.

There is all this chatter about the plane being pinged via satellite.  That is nice but so what?  That system is not the primary.  What all ATC systems depend upon is the transponder to be turned on and squawking the Flt # as Mode 3 and the altitude as Mode C.  Once the transponder is turned off and the plane is more than 50 miles from an ATC radar, it becomes simply an unknown blip that fades away into the clutter.

And since it went silent to regular methods at a hand over point, that added to the confusion.  This is shaping up to be something to be defined as 'this particular event was not anticipated.'

But what I just wrote is subject to change.  Plus the possible fact this was all known within a few hours but the Malaysian government was struggling to sort it out and resolve it without affecting their reputation.  Much like this administration only used trusted party hacks for 404Care.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 08:45 AM (Urmiy)

14 2 I gotta say, this incident and the post-incident incompetence, makes my blood boil. Posted by: Y-not at March 15, 2014 12:32 PM (zDsvJ) the incompetence isn't a bug, it's a feature

Posted by: Shoey at March 15, 2014 08:46 AM (p4/VF)

15 I like Twitchy, really hoping they do a re-design, though. Hate the pumpkin orange color scheme.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 08:48 AM (ZPrif)

16 That takes guts The Interpreter ‏@Interpreter_Mag Ukraine Liveblog: Approximately 50,000 antiwar protesters take to the streets in Moscow http://bit.ly/1ipm68u pic.twitter.com/mrNqUmOqyq

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 08:49 AM (ZPrif)

17 The Un will find Putin a bit more difficult to deal with than Saddam Hussein, and it didn't do so well with him.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 08:51 AM (jTKU5)

18 Just now getting round to reading the two links rdbrewer put up in the main page sidebar, of Peggy Noonan and Mark Zuckerberg complaining about Obama.

I figured I should save those until a quiet Saturday morning when epileptic ragestroke twitching could be explained away as a bad hangover.

Yep. Sure glad I waited.

Dear Peggy Noonan: how's about you have yourself a nice big hot steaming mug of shut the fuck up?

Noonan needs to be exiled to the same nether hell as Walter Russell Mead and other "sensible centrists" who voted for Obama because of impeccable pants creases and because they were horrified by that awful snowbilly Sarah Palin.

And who all now write long doleful screeds about all the things Obama is doing horribly wrong WITHOUT EVER ONCE ADMITTING THEIR CULPABILITY in this particular disaster, much less apologizing profusely.

I really don't want to read even one more of those goddamned Mead or Noonan pieces ever again. I just want them instead to to say,

"Wow. Was I ever a complete loser. Any brain that could brainfart as badly as mine did about Obama's competence is not a brain that should ever be trusted to discuss complex issues in public. So I'm permanently retiring from the pundit trade to well deserved silence and obscurity. Bye now."

As for Fuckerberg, after pouring tons of money and Facebook's considerable technical resources into backing Obama, now he's realizing that Big Government intrusions under Obama are costing Facebook potential foreign customers, and costing him money. And he has a sad.

Dear Mark Zuckerberg: here's a bag of dicks. Eat them.

Since Zuckerberg was far more influential in practical terms than natterers such as Mead and Noonan when it came to inflicting Obama on the rest of us, his contrition will have to be sterner. I am thinking that a particularly slow and humiliating form of public ritual suicide is about right.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 15, 2014 08:52 AM (gqT4g)

19 I think they are being careful on what gets released, if some of these doomsday scenarios are in play, it would be in everyone's interest to keep things on the downlow until a response is in motion or executed.

1) The probably flight path is headed to a known region of baddies.
2) The recent coverage suggests possible landing of unspecified duration with engines running, this plays nicely with our wild ass speculation yesterday, there are nations along that flight path who would likely turn a blind eye or actively support hostile actions.
3) the 45K altitude stuff would suggest that the passengers have likely been taken out of the equation. I saw some asinine comments over at qawker wondering how they could possibly get rid of 230 some odd bodies without raising anyone's hackles. One would think a remote airstrip in pockeystohn, that could be handled relatively easy. This explains the phone thing probably.
4) This thing is long gone in the 4 or 5 days before anyone started thinking along these lines.
5) Iran is probably already nuke capable.
6) Insert worst possible scenario here.

I would venture that we've been playing coy along with some of our allies in the region like India, maybe even China one would think it's not in their interest for a nuke to go off in most places either, but who knows.

I think we've got a SPECTRE Special going on here.


Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at March 15, 2014 08:55 AM (gl2Yt)

20 Heh, the rampant speculation by talking heads on various channels has been entertaining in the extreme. I heard one say that it wasn't very likely that an earthquake caused the plane to go down or that the plane going down caused an earthquake. It has convinced me of one thing. So-called logical analysis is now being done with one of those seven-blade, ergonometric-contoured, glide strip with moisturizer gel, carbon-tipped, strong enough for a man but made for a woman, safe in the shower, wet-dry shaving systems. Occam's razor has been thrown out the window.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 08:58 AM (g4TxM)

21 I've seen several interviews from aeronautics (?) experts who say the Malaysian government's handling of this has been terrible. I think when you have a multi-national search going on in a location that was readily known to not be the location, that's incompetence.

Posted by: Y-not at March 15, 2014 08:58 AM (zDsvJ)

22 After over a week, they are finally getting around to searching the pilots's homes?

Sheesh.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 15, 2014 08:58 AM (V70Uh)

23 Maybe we should get ahead of the crazy curve.

Start a cult to pray for the incredible return of the 777.  Send donations now so we can pray for the miraculous and safe return.

If they find the wreckage, give a French shrug and merely say 'not enough people prayed and supported us.' while pocketing the donations.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:00 AM (Urmiy)

24 From a pilot who flies this plane: “If I have a fire in flight, I’m prepared to put it down on anything above 5,000 feet,” says Solan. “You could put it on a highway.” A runway wouldn’t even necessarily have to be paved; hard-packed dirt would likely be good enough. Throw some camouflage netting over the plane once you’re on the ground, and you’re good.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 09:02 AM (jTKU5)

25 Y-Not.  Go back to 2007 1 Jan.  An Indonesian Adam Air 737 vanished in flight.  They had false leads of a land crash site.  It was not until 7 Jan that a probable crash site was found from debris floating in the water.  9 Jan a US search vessel confirmed the 737 was on the bottom of the sea with their sonar.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:03 AM (Urmiy)

26 Most of the experts are discounting the crazy elevation changes as bad data. Most don't believe it's possible to even get 777 to 45k, for example. The Malaysian radar data appears to have a lot of noise in it, no need to explain the noise as purposeful action.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 09:03 AM (ZPrif)

27 It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 15, 2014 09:04 AM (V4CBV)

28 >>Posted by: torquewrench at March 15, 2014 12:52 PM (gqT4g)

Bravo!

Noonan was one of those "reasonably" conservatives who appeared on MSNBC and with all the gravitas she could emote, declared Palin an idiot.
5+ years on it still hasn't occurred to Noonan that Palin was right about Obama in 2008 while she is still desperately clinging to misplaced hope that Obama actually wants what's best for American and America. She helped give the impression that the Republican base was in agreement with the Left on Palin.

Spoiler alert, Peggy:  He hates America and he has been working to destroy it from within since he was sworn in (both times, mysteriously).

Posted by: Lizzy at March 15, 2014 09:05 AM (aq/zi)

29 Posted by: torquewrench at March 15, 2014 12:52 PM (gqT4g) Damn right. Anyone with half a brain in their head could see that Obama had accomplished absolutely nothing before running for president. Other than spewing a bunch of leftwing crap, which all seemed to be glossed over when he was running as a "moderate".

Posted by: nerdygirl at March 15, 2014 09:05 AM (mck3/)

30 I think the plane is very likely on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. But, if it is not, I believe US, UK and Chinese intelligence know where it is. Whatever else they are saying is being leaked for whatever strategic reason.

Posted by: Czar Peter at March 15, 2014 09:06 AM (DQfzO)

31 Anyone with half a brain in their head could see that Obama had accomplished absolutely nothing before running for president. ...which made him a Nobel Prize winner. After all, who has more potential than somebody who has done nothing?

Posted by: t-bird at March 15, 2014 09:08 AM (FcR7P)

32 t-bird a door stop has accomplished more than our golfing President ...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:10 AM (Urmiy)

33 "I've seen several interviews from aeronautics (?) experts who say the Malaysian government's handling of this has been terrible. I think when you have a multi-national search going on in a location that was readily known to not be the location, that's incompetence."

Well, there's that, and then there's the insane spectacle of the witch doctor on the KLIA airport concourse, chanting and wildly waving coconuts in the air and looking around through bamboo "binoculars".

So you have Malaysia insisting that they are too an advanced modern competent country, serious you guys, and then you have this certifiably batshit crazy carnival act to "find the plane". At the same time that the official Malaysian government inquiry isn't delivering any better results than the guy with the coconuts.

Posted by: torquewrench at March 15, 2014 09:10 AM (gqT4g)

34 Here is a map where the plane was and how far it could fly with possible landing places. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22527736-post4163.html

Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at March 15, 2014 09:11 AM (b6koZ)

35 "Whatever else they are saying is being leaked for whatever strategic reason." So, maybe they don't want the bad guys to know that the location of the plane is known. If so, the plane is intact and on land. Rubrick's Cube. So many possibilities.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 09:11 AM (jTKU5)

36 That would be a kicker if they had managed to land it in the Australian Outback.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:13 AM (Urmiy)

37 I'm still not discounting a suicidal pilot who decided to take one last ride, doing the one thing in life he still enjoyed -- flying. In that scenario the pilot or co-pilot just has to lock the other guy out of the cockpit. All the weird flying from that point could be him avoiding detection so he can just enjoy his final hours on earth. Maybe he just didn't have the balls to fly directly into the ground or a mountain. So he just flew around, breaking every rule, partly seeing if he could get away with it -- and then eventually just setting sail for the deep blue ocean until he ran out of fuel and fell to earth. Evil as hell to take out the passengers and crew with him. But that's happened before. So, we'll see. I still think suicidal joyride is a possibility. Perhaps not the most likely scenario at this point. But there have been several pilot suicides in the past. Very hard to eliminate the risk of that. All the safety mechanisms installed since 9/11 have been to prevent bad behavior from the passengers. The pilot is assumed to be a good guy.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 09:14 AM (ZPrif)

38 Anyone besides me read a report of the Ruskies capturing one of our drones over Crimea?  Agence France Presse had the story yesterday.

Posted by: navybrat at March 15, 2014 09:16 AM (AW7Gr)

39 The Great Train Robbery 21st Century Edition

Posted by: Tmitsss at March 15, 2014 09:18 AM (aVsJj)

40 : navybrat Yeah. I figured Putin is writing insults to Obama on it and sending it to D.C. soon.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 09:18 AM (jTKU5)

41 Pentagon denied the drone story quite forcefully. Russia is probably lying.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 09:20 AM (ZPrif)

42 I was in the suicide joyride camp yesterday. The reconstructed flight path into Uyghur territory is seductive though.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 09:20 AM (jTKU5)

43 Anyone besides me read a report of the Ruskies capturing one of our drones over Crimea? Agence France Presse had the story yesterday. **** Yep. They spotted it although it was up about 12k feet.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at March 15, 2014 09:22 AM (DmNpO)

44 Flight 370, I don't believe a word the Malaysian government says nor do I believe a word the media says about it. We don't anything more then we knew when it was first reported missing.
But it sold papers and tuned in viewers.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 15, 2014 09:24 AM (IV4od)

45 Is there a Joint Session of Congress scheduled next week?

Posted by: Zombie Tom Clancy at March 15, 2014 09:24 AM (D+lxs)

46 >>Yeah. I figured Putin is writing insults to Obama on it and sending it to D.C. soon.

Couldn't top Iran's punking of Obama (and us, sadly) when they "returned" our drone - a toy replica of it.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 15, 2014 09:25 AM (aq/zi)

47 Thank God I got through Steak and BJ day without having to cook a yukky steak.

Posted by: Mrs. Barney at March 15, 2014 09:28 AM (0FSuD)

48 They ought to check out Somalia - those wacky pirates are at it again.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 15, 2014 09:28 AM (/i3Yt)

49 April 3-5 in NYC is the Women in the World 2014 Summit...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:28 AM (Urmiy)

50 Well the last time those wacky Somali pirates tried to snag a plane, it ended up in pieces in full view of a lot of people. 

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:29 AM (Urmiy)

51 I'm not convinced that the engine diagnostic location data wasn't doctored. Seems these guys are smarter than your average bear. Could be a wicked head fake to send folks in the wrong direction. I'm a little concerned by how quiet and cagey every nation's government has been about this. Like they're all buying time and holding their breath.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at March 15, 2014 09:30 AM (kqGWM)

52

If they were heading due east, did they just run out of fuel before they got to Somalia? 

 

Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 09:30 AM (D+lxs)

53 You can't veto the truth!!!

Posted by: Amb Samantha Power at March 15, 2014 09:30 AM (Aif/5)

54 Pitt vs. Virginia, 12-11 in the early going.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 09:31 AM (ZshNr)

55 Suicide joyride camp? I don't think you go to all that trouble for a "joyride".

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 09:33 AM (RJMhd)

56 Here is a runway no one thinks of and its on that chart.  Biak which is an island just north of the Indonesian portion of New Guinea.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:33 AM (Urmiy)

57 That would be a kicker if they had managed to land it in the Australian Outback. The Blooming Onions are much better down under.

Posted by: Joyriding Ouigher at March 15, 2014 09:33 AM (q9ojC)

58 Ostrower is the WSJ reporter who's been the best reporter on this and obviously has inside source in the US govt investigation team. Appears to be the best source of the best info available. Jon Ostrower ‏@jonostrower Satellite asked #MH370 'can you hear me?' The 777 said 'yes' & the normal pings didn't immediately raise red flags http://on.wsj.com/1gncKVS

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 09:34 AM (ZPrif)

59 And people need to shift their parameters of thinking-- before 9/11 the the hijackers wanted to negotiate--until they didn't. Also jezzuz--the "claim responsibility" argument--no one claimed 9/11 for quite awhile. No group claimed one of the Mumbai bombings. Also one of the Mumbai bombings they jammed cell phones.

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 09:35 AM (RJMhd)

60 Shit, was yesterday Steak & BJ day? Damn.

Posted by: Y-not of Irish descent at March 15, 2014 09:35 AM (zDsvJ)

61 Also *during8 one of the Mumbai bombings they jammed the cell phones. Probably the 2011 one--not the 2008 one.

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 09:36 AM (RJMhd)

62 Suicidal people have done lots of crazy, elaborate things in the past that were far from the most efficient method of offing themselves.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 09:40 AM (ZPrif)

63 I'm not implying a connection in any way, but all I can say is I'm sure Putin is doing backflips over his good fortune with this magical disappearing airplane story.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 09:40 AM (hFL/3)

64

This is similar to the Lockerbie bombing and the Bojinka plot. 

 

Airliners take off, fly away with everything normal.  They just disappear. 

No one ever sees them again.  What happened?  Where are the people?  Was it something wrong with the plane?  The Airline?  Hijacking?  No One Knows!

 

No One Knows!

 

Doubt and uncertainty.

 

Terror, true terror.  No one knows what happened. 

Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 09:40 AM (D+lxs)

65 CNN reported that there was a small Russian "incursion" in the province north of Crimea. WH still waiting for Putin to save face.

Posted by: Adam at March 15, 2014 09:41 AM (Aif/5)

66 rd or in 2003 in Africa.  727 took off without lights or permission from the tower.  The mechanic Padilla nor the 727 were ever seen again.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:43 AM (Urmiy)

67 No One Knows! Doubt and uncertainty. Terror, true terror. No one knows what happened. Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 01:40 PM (D+lxs) **** I agree, but think there is one other element that is necessary for 'terrorism' in the true sense of the word. That is the notion that this doubt and uncertainty was the result of something more than random chance. The notion that some group purposefully caused it. That is the element that is missing so far in this case.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 09:44 AM (g4TxM)

68 Beware. Beware.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 15, 2014 09:45 AM (dfYL9)

69 Pitt-Virginia, 21-21, about 3 minutes left in the first half.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 09:45 AM (ZshNr)

70 Investigators have interviewed the families of the pilots.  An interesting tidbit I read is that the Captain had built a 777 flight simulator in his home.  The family says that it was his hobby.  Perhaps, but it could also have been used to train others on the cockpit of a 777 and for flight instructions.

Posted by: Cheri at March 15, 2014 09:45 AM (VDGzf)

71 "The mechanic Padilla nor the 727 were ever seen again." Holy crap. I never heard about that. That's....really scary.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 09:45 AM (hFL/3)

72 71 "The mechanic Padilla nor the 727 were ever seen again." ------- Halliburton.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein at March 15, 2014 09:48 AM (Aif/5)

73 Perhaps, but it could also have been used to train others on the cockpit of a 777 and for flight instructions.
===
Perhaps.  Or rehearsals.

Posted by: mrp at March 15, 2014 09:49 AM (JBggj)

74 I    think Padilla and the  wreckage of the     727 are too far in the jungle to be found, or else in the south Atlantic

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 15, 2014 09:49 AM (/i3Yt)

75 Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 01:33 PM (RJMhd) Search: Craig David Button, USAF pilot.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 09:50 AM (jTKU5)

76

in 2003 in Africa. 727 took off without lights or permission from the tower. The mechanic Padilla nor the 727 were ever seen again.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 01:43 PM (Urmiy)

 

WEB Griffin started another book series based on that event.  "Presidential Agent"  It was an OK popcorn / Beach read.  Unfortunately, like all his books, his co-author is ruining them.  The latest are sheer dreck. 

Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 09:50 AM (D+lxs)

77 Then you better check on all these hobbyists who have assembled F-16 flight sim cockpits.

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/homemade-f-16-simulator-cockpit-flying-high/

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:51 AM (Urmiy)

78 Short of outright deception on the part of officialdom, these seem to be the core elements that are being generally accepted as factual 1. The plane/crew ceased communicating 2. The plane changed direction 3. The plane flew for several more hours in a vaguely westerly direction. These three facts create a highly constrained set of possible explanations. The outcome should become evident from within those constraints. The plane is either safely on the ground in an undisclosed location or it flew into the ocean. Given the vastness of the Indian Ocean, I have my thoughts on which is more likely. YMMV

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 09:51 AM (g4TxM)

79 All the sophisticated efforts just to ditch a plane in the sea don't make much sense, so we're back to where the hell is it? The idea of the pilot training others in his simulator is interesting, but he's already a pilot so not much use for this particular case.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 09:51 AM (ZshNr)

80 Vastha, that is probably true since a 727 is still a multi-million dollar airplane.  Someone would have used it by now.  Just think of if the cocaine cartels could have used it.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at March 15, 2014 09:52 AM (Urmiy)

81 Hell, if the experts can fling wild speculation, why not me? Possible scenario: Co-pilot becomes either radicalized or compromised (blackmailed), an hour into the flight he pulls his pistol, disables the pilot, takes over the cockpit, shuts down communication and changes direction. Somewhere in the course of that the pilot tries to maintain or regain control, struggle ensues, one or both injured, possibly lethally. Plane on autopilot flies west until it runs out of fuel. Splash. Hmmm.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 09:57 AM (g4TxM)

82

I agree, but think there is one other element that is necessary for 'terrorism' in the true sense of the word. That is the notion that this doubt and uncertainty was the result of something more than random chance. The notion that some group purposefully caused it. That is the element that is missing so far in this case.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 01:44 PM (g4TxM)

 

Remember the Truther/Democrat talking point in 2002-2003?  "No one has any proof 9/11 was Osama Bin Laden.  Al Qaeda never took credit for 9/11."  All BS

 

Even after the video of Bin Laden praising "the Egyptians" for their successful mission.  This is where I started realizing that the Left and Progressives are delusional, and immune to facts and logic. 

 

And after BHO, I have seen nothing to change my mind.  The Left and Progressives are delusional, and immune to facts and logic. 

Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 09:58 AM (D+lxs)

83 I read a while back how University of Texas grad students successfully took over the steering of a yacht in the Mediterranean using GPS hack.



Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 15, 2014 09:58 AM (/i3Yt)

84 Yeah, but sorry. No one hijacks a quarter of a billion dollar plane with 239 souls aboard just to take it water skiing in the Indian Ocean. Unless someone shot it down over water, then I'd wager it's on the ground somewhere. Passengers are likely dead unless they're locked up with a suicide bomber video for release after whatever these assclowns have planned. I'm generally not the conspiratorial type, but this whole thing stinks.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at March 15, 2014 09:58 AM (kqGWM)

85 Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 01:58 PM (D+lxs) *** True, yet the 'terror' element from 9/11 stemmed from the obvious fact that those acts were intentional. (And by obvious, I mean to anyone with the ability to think coherently).

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 10:00 AM (g4TxM)

86 New Ted Cruz Badass poster. http://tinyurl.com/neglwxz

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 15, 2014 10:01 AM (/0Xze)

87 Things become simpler if we confine the bad actors to the pilot and/or copilot. In a secured cockpit, it's possible. The FA's and passengers would know something was up, so if they were alive and flying through anywhere with cellphone/digital device connections, I'd expect there would be a record of panicked calls. If they never flew anywhere with such a connection, the phones are moot.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 10:03 AM (ZshNr)

88 I am incompetent at tiny url, but here is a quote from the article at University Herald on the GPS hack

"With 90 percent of the world's freight moving across the seas and a great deal of the world's human transportation going across the skies, we have to gain a better understanding of the broader implications of GPS spoofing," Humphreys said. "I didn't know, until we performed this experiment, just how possible it is to spoof a marine vessel and how difficult it is to detect this attack."
"This experiment is applicable to other semi-autonomous vehicles, such as aircraft, which are now operated, in part, by autopilot systems," Humphreys said. "We've got to put on our thinking caps and see what we can do to solve this threat quickly."

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 15, 2014 10:03 AM (/i3Yt)

89 If the pilot wanted to off himself, but didn't want people (like his family and friends) to know that, then the elaborate efforts make sense. Suicides often don't make logical sense. And we're in a situation where something rare and unusual happened. Elaborate, inefficient, irrational suicides -- happen more often than we thing. Orders of magnitude more often than Tom Clancy style terrorism. We are looking at something rare and unusual happening. On the scale of rarity, suicide is probably the least rare cause left.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 10:03 AM (ZPrif)

90 Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 01:51 PM (g4TxM) I was in your camp last night. If the flight data about hours of operation is roughly correct, the plane finished up over land unless it did some circling over the sea. The coincidence of the recontructed flight path heading right into Uyghur territory is interesting. Range does decrease a lot if you fly low however, so there is that too. IIRC, 2,000 miles at cruising altitude drops to 800 miles if you fly at 2,000 feet. The plane is 'said' to have flown at around 29,000 feet after the weird data about ups and downs that is impossible for the plane to physically accomplish.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:04 AM (jTKU5)

91

Posted by: Walter Freeman at March 15, 2014 01:58 PM (kqGWM)

 



They tried for Somalia and ran out of fuel? 

Or the center of the Indian Ocean is a big and empty place. 

Not many sailing routes through there. 

Posted by: rd at March 15, 2014 10:04 AM (D+lxs)

92 I hate to admit this, but at this point I am actually hoping now that the plane is either crashed or disabled. I donÂ’t want whatever stage 2 they have planned to go ahead.

Posted by: votermom at March 15, 2014 10:06 AM (GSIDW)

93 Is anyone blaming the missing plane on Global Warming yet?Danny Glover maybe?

Posted by: katya the designated driver at March 15, 2014 10:08 AM (4Chvm)

94 Somalia was on the very edge of their range under perfect circumstances and assuming some potential gliding without fuel. Any pilot with half a brain woulda known that and chosen a different destination. There are plenty of equally hospitable locales within a more modest range.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at March 15, 2014 10:11 AM (kqGWM)

95 Posted by: votermom at March 15, 2014 02:06 PM (GSIDW I hear you. If that plane takes off again, it's going to get found in a hurry at this point I would think.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:11 AM (jTKU5)

96 The coincidence of the recontructed flight path heading right into Uyghur territory is interesting. Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 02:04 PM (jTKU5) ***** That presumes a multi-nation conspiracy. I can't imagine a plane flying up that corridor in the vicinity of India, Pakistan, China, Thailand, Burma and not a single radar station somewhere along the way noted an anomaly or without any official knowledge by somebody. I find it hard to believe that level of international conspiratorial cooperation.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 10:16 AM (g4TxM)

97 Just an FYI. The newest conspiracy theory flying around Europe and Asia fueled by Malaysians and Indian Muslims is that the US hijacked the plane at a nearby base because they wanted to steal the technology of the Chinese. Considering that the 20 Chinese techies were employees of an American electronics company; that their research was intellectual property of the American company that founded and funded said research; this rumor is far flung nonsense. But all the same; it took off on the wings of truthers.

Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at March 15, 2014 10:17 AM (0ibSB)

98 "an't imagine a plane flying up that corridor in the vicinity of India, Pakistan, China, Thailand, Burma and not a single radar station somewhere along the way noted an anomaly or without any official knowledge by somebody." Isn't the theory that the plane was flown in such a way to specifically evade radar detection?

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 10:19 AM (hFL/3)

99 So far I see no evidence of terrorism. It could be a catastrophic mechanical failure that knocked out all communications and navigation or possibly pilot suicide.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 15, 2014 10:20 AM (P1WNR)

100 Oh I crashed in the jungle alright, but I survived. And then I was declared a god by the tribe that saw the crash.

Posted by: Mechanic Padilla at March 15, 2014 10:21 AM (Aif/5)

101 Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 02:16 PM (g4TxM) I can't support a multi-state conspiracy either. Could it fly under the radar? I have no idea. The timing of the transponder shutdown is interesting. And the flight path after the turnaround is amazing, take a look at how it skirted radar coverages. That wasn't an accident.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:22 AM (jTKU5)

102 This is surprising from ex-Germany PM Schroeder. This is not surprising from current Gazprom board member Shroeder. Tom Nichols ‏@TheWarRoom_Tom How does a soul go for in rubles these days? | Merkel fury after Schroeder backs Putin on Ukraine - via @Telegraph http://fw.to/gaLhtHm

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 10:22 AM (ZPrif)

103 Hmm. Reports coming out of China that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's wife and three children had moved out of the family home the day before flight MH370 disappeared. http://tinyurl.com/p3y29g4

Posted by: Dinah Lord at March 15, 2014 10:23 AM (46UXb)

104 "[M]ore than six hours" is an upgrade from the previous four hours or something isn't it? I wish I was more confident in thinking the facts I know are actual facts.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 10:23 AM (sOtz/)

105 for interested morons there is a good discussion, albeit old, at fernandez's pajamas media site about this. also, mashable has something here: http://mashable.com/2014/03/13/what-happened-to-malaysia-airlines-flight-370/ pprune is kinda gettin tired.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:24 AM (rDidD)

106 Do non muslim pilots ever commit suicide? Or is it only the religion of peace that decides to off themselves with a couple of hundred unwilling and innocent people?

Posted by: The Yellow Pug at March 15, 2014 10:25 AM (r7mtu)

107 18 Posted by: torquewrench at March 15, 2014 12:52 PM (gqT4g) Great rant, torquewrench. Yes, I can never forgive anyone who voted for that evil Commie bastard. Their voting privileges should be permanently revoked, since they have shown that they are not capable of rational thought. I not only don't consider them to be fellow Americans, I don't even consider them to be human beings. They are the Enemy.

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 10:25 AM (sdi6R)

108 Iran probably has already killed the passengers that they could not glean any useful info from and their bodies will be strapped into the seats prior to takeoff . The entire plane most likely is being loaded with spent fuel rods and possibly a thermonuclear device the passengers will be "victims" of Israeli "aggression" if the plane is shot down prior to completion of the martyrdom operation over Tel Aviv. This attack schedule has been probably been moved up to the next few days or weeks. Now that all leads are coming closer to the Chahbahar airport in Balishistan Iran as the likely final landing location of the airliner. I hope we wake up everyone on Diego Garcia asap and get them on this before everything goes to hell in a flash. This operation was. Most likely carried out using the same Iranian hackers that stole the U.S. drone from Afpak theatre of operations along with an away team this is some serious shit that will not wait. Just saying...

Posted by: blog force one at March 15, 2014 10:26 AM (J4QVA)

109 A catastrophic failure that didn't knock out the engines and allowed 5 hours of flight and multiple course changes? Maybe in a Payne Stewart situation if the course changes were the result of a dead stick and auto-pilot and conditions all having conflicting influence. They do seem convinced that transponders were deactivated separately, I think I've seen twenty minutes apart mentioned.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 10:27 AM (ZshNr)

110 pprune is interesting, but they delete a huge % of of posts, especially anything that casts doubt on the pilot and crew.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 10:27 AM (ZPrif)

111 From WaPost: According to Federal Aviation Administration data, 24 American pilots have killed themselves while flying their planes in the last two decades. Twenty-three of those pilots intentionally crashed their craft, and one student pilot jumped out of his plane mid-flight. All of the pilots who killed themselves were male and middle-aged.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 10:29 AM (ZPrif)

112 Posted by: Lincolntf

Are you saying a catastrophic electrical fire/failure would preclude the engines from continuing to run?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 15, 2014 10:31 AM (P1WNR)

113 pprune is interesting, but they delete a huge % of of posts, especially anything that casts doubt on the pilot and crew. Posted by: Flatbush Joe yeah, that is definitely their achilles heel. all occams razor until someone suggests the pilot may have effed around somehow.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:31 AM (rDidD)

114 No I'm saying that it could happen. Only under certain circumstances and certain definitions of catastrophic, but it has happened.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 10:32 AM (ZshNr)

115 Posted by: The Yellow Pug at March 15, 2014 02:25 PM (r7mtu) USAF pilot Craig David Button did, but he only killed himself. They've never found his live bombs, but they think he may have dropped them into a high lake in the area. 1997.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:32 AM (jTKU5)

116 Do non muslim pilots ever commit suicide? Or is it only the religion of peace that decides to off themselves with a couple of hundred unwilling and innocent people? - Not a pilot or even a passenger, but back in 1955 a fellow packed a bomb in his mom's luggage and killed dozens if not hundreds of people for the insurance money on his mom's life.

Posted by: WalrusRex at March 15, 2014 10:34 AM (/0Xze)

117 Hey, if Zuckerberg doesn't want torquewrench's big-bag-o-dicks, I'll take 'em.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at March 15, 2014 10:34 AM (Q6pxP)

118 USAF pilot Craig David Button did, but he only killed himself. They've never found his live bombs, but they think he may have dropped them into a high lake in the area. 1997. Posted by: Meremortal is that the A-10 guy?

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:34 AM (rDidD)

119 sted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 02:27 14 minutes apart.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:34 AM (jTKU5)

120 106
Do non muslim pilots ever commit suicide? Or is it only the religion of peace that decides to off themselves with a couple of hundred unwilling and innocent people?

Posted by: The Yellow Pug at March 15, 2014 02:25 PM (r7mtu)


On 02/18/2010 an angelo flew his light plane into a Dallas IRS building.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at March 15, 2014 10:35 AM (UYiBe)

121 osted by: yankeefifth Yes. Flew hundreds of miles, circled Gold Dust Mountain near Vail,CO twice and went into the mountain with 2 minutes of fuel left.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:36 AM (jTKU5)

122 14 minutes, and if one of the guys I read was correct then turning off the second one would have required some expertise and physical access to a device outside the cockpit, anyone know if that's true?

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 10:37 AM (ZshNr)

123 anyone have any idea about radar on Diego Garcia? I would assume it has some relatively capable stuff which. in combination with the Australian Jindaloo stuff, would make the southwestern route less likely or less likely for someone wanting to go undetected.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:37 AM (rDidD)

124 97 The newest conspiracy theory flying around Europe and Asia fueled by Malaysians and Indian Muslims is that the US hijacked the plane at a nearby base because they wanted to steal the technology of the Chinese. Posted by: I'd rather be surfin at March 15, 2014 02:17 PM (0ibSB) Ah, the latest manifestation of the "America is the source of all evil in the world" meme. That has been elevated to the status of a religion among millions of people, both inside this country and worldwide. The Gramscian Long March continues to bear fruit.

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 10:38 AM (sdi6R)

125 physical access to a device outside the cockpit, anyone know if that's true? Posted by: Lincolntf I read that you have to access the rear of the plane and know what you are doing. Can't remember where. One or both pilots certainly involved, if the plane crashed that happened much later according to Boeing.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 10:40 AM (jTKU5)

126 *Do non muslim pilots ever commit suicide?*

Also, Muslim pilot pilots don't do it much either: the only one I can think of is that co-pilot who crashed his airliner into the Atlantic years ago. Now, Muslim non-pilots who take flying lessons just so they can crash airliners, that's different.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at March 15, 2014 10:41 AM (UYiBe)

127 This guy is a Time reporter in Crimea Simon Shuster ‏@shustry Right, so my hotel is besieged by gunmen with silenced Kalashnikovs. Hotel Moskva, Simferopol Simon Shuster ‏@shustry Some are masked commandos in camouflage, others plain clothes with black beanies and jeans, seem to be special forces Simon Shuster ‏@shustry Gunmen are searching everyone who comes out of their rooms or out of elevator, commander on 6th floor has handgun, 3 other with AKs

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 10:41 AM (ZPrif)

128 I wandered around the Amish market today. They were selling chocolate-covered bacon, so of course I had to try a piece. Not bad, but not something that needs to be repeated.

Posted by: biancaneve at March 15, 2014 10:41 AM (2sR50)

129 It's an entirely different kind of flying.

Posted by: Everyone at March 15, 2014 10:42 AM (4/o9U)

130 Don't worry about Ukraine, Putin is looking for a way out that will allow him to save face.

Posted by: Preezy Barry at March 15, 2014 10:43 AM (Aif/5)

131 So, I'm checking out that radar flight path that was linked above (@7 Patrick from Ohio). The shape of the path looks suspiciously like a hockey stick. I wonder if Michael Mann was involved somehow.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 10:45 AM (g4TxM)

132 --I have to take the Mumbai bombing thing back--misread it. Looks like the government jammed communications--which would make perfect sense.

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 10:45 AM (RJMhd)

133 So, pilot hijacks his own plane.  (I thought it would be the young co-pilot, but sounding less so)

turns transponders off, changes course and flight level (multiple times)

probably landed aircraft on remote airfield thousands of miles from expected course

- Passengers alive or dead?

plane probably is some camouflaged hangar, having its electronics altered and being repainted and retrofitted for its new mission -

- after 6+ days on the ground... the plane is ready for next mission

--- Aircraft w/o passengers and normal cargo has probably a 9000 mile radius of action - depending on what it's special cargo is

Posted by: Emilia Earhart at March 15, 2014 10:46 AM (Q6pxP)

134 116 Not a pilot or even a passenger, but back in 1955 a fellow packed a bomb in his mom's luggage and killed dozens if not hundreds of people for the insurance money on his mom's life. Posted by: WalrusRex at March 15, 2014 02:34 PM (/0Xze) Here you go. http://tinyurl.com/n4ac7oc 44 killed. The article says it was the worst mass murder in American history at the time, but a little googling reveals that the 1927 Bath school bombing killed the same number of people.

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 10:47 AM (sdi6R)

135 Ooh ooh, I want to play the conspiracy game. Reports of the older pilot's family leaving the family home in the past few days? Perhaps they were kidnapped and the younger pilot was involved. The younger pilot must have known of the older pilot's flight simulator and unusually high level of experience. Perhaps the younger pilot was radicalized and is using the older pilot's family as leverage to force him to agree to this crazy plane stealing plot.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 10:49 AM (hFL/3)

136 well, the interesting thing about the runway assumptions is that they are assuming you need the normal amount of take off room. If you eliminate everything passenger related and are assuming it is a one-way without any need for landing I bet you could get it off in less room than usual. of course if you are going for a long flight all the extra fuel kinda negates the advantage of stripping everything.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:49 AM (rDidD)

137 ...would have required some expertise and physical access to a device outside the cockpit, anyone know if that's true? Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 02:37 PM (ZshNr) 777 pilots on TV said it required going outside the cockpit to an electronics area below the galley, and using a checklist.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 10:50 AM (sOtz/)

138 118 USAF pilot Craig David Button did, but he only killed himself. They've never found his live bombs, but they think he may have dropped them into a high lake in the area. 1997. Posted by: Meremortal ********* Ya that's along the lines that I am thinking as to this stat up thread: 111 From WaPost: According to Federal Aviation Administration data, 24 American pilots have killed themselves while flying their planes in the last two decades. Twenty-three of those pilots intentionally crashed their craft, and one student pilot jumped out of his plane mid-flight. All of the pilots who killed themselves were male and middle-aged. *************** First of all that is actually a pretty low frequency. Second--how many of them were at the controls of a plane with +200 passengers? Then--look at the complications of what has transpired so far with this plane--it looks like more than one person might be involved. I also think the 14 minute gap tells you it wasn't some catastrophic event--or a fire even.

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 10:52 AM (RJMhd)

139 some guy over on pprune has a video showing how easy it is to access the electronics bay in a 777, pull back a rug, throw a latch, you are in. apparently he and some others have been demanding a more secure hatch for some time. probably gonna happen.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:52 AM (rDidD)

140

Ok.... assuming this is now a stolen airplane.  What's next?  How close do you think an unidentified airplane is going to get to any major country's airspace?  I just don't see the jet being used as a weapon. 

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at March 15, 2014 10:54 AM (jucos)

141 It was a red-eye flight, correct?  Plenty of time/opportunity to run the checklist for the second transponder... explains the 14 minute gap

Posted by: Emilia Earhart at March 15, 2014 10:54 AM (Q6pxP)

142 sssssssssss where isss it?

Posted by: Gollum at March 15, 2014 10:55 AM (C94J7)

143 I wonder if it is something boring and simple, maybe the cargo was worth a few million and someone had a plan to steal it and murder the passengers.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:57 AM (rDidD)

144 yankeefifth - I heard that rumour (chinese gold) a few days ago

Posted by: Emilia Earhart at March 15, 2014 10:58 AM (Q6pxP)

145 I guess what I am trying to say is this is an event that has a lot of "unique" events and so it might act more like an exception to "the rules" and not fit the patterns the media might want to force this into. People like patterns it makes them more comfortable --and that's why certain people like to break the previous "rules"... you know who those people are but the reddit PC Cargo Cult might down ding you for thinking outside the box. These kiddies are going to grow up to be your future DOD, CIA, and State Department "analysts".

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 10:58 AM (RJMhd)

146 Why would someone steal a plane loaded with passengers? A) they want the plane B) they want hostages C) they want one particular passenger D) they want something in the cargo E) they want to defect Any other reasons come to mind ?

Posted by: grammie winger at March 15, 2014 10:59 AM (oMKp3)

147 yankeefifth - I heard that rumour (chinese gold) a few days ago Posted by: Emilia Earhart at March 15, 2014 02:58 I have heard same. if it is gold, even easier, nothing to worry about id you have a rough landing, pull it out load it up, go home.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 10:59 AM (rDidD)

148 One thing is certain: This was no accident. I think we can safely rule out things like cabin decompression, electrical failure, fires, and such. It's now known that the plane was under control after it disappeared from the radar screens. So it was hijacked. By whom and for what reason?

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 10:59 AM (sdi6R)

149 I guess what I am trying to say is this is an event that has a lot of "unique" ^aspects^

Posted by: tasker at March 15, 2014 11:00 AM (RJMhd)

150 I just don't see the jet being used as a weapon. Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at March 15, 2014 02:54 PM (jucos) It seems like a complex international conspiracy to use a jet as a weapon could avoid the hijacking step in order to keep the element of surprise. Or not. I get more baffled with each article I read.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 11:00 AM (sOtz/)

151 I rely on God!

Posted by: Gamee Al-Batouti EgyptAir 990 at March 15, 2014 11:01 AM (Aif/5)

152 it is interesting to consider why the chicoms would let someone release satellite images of such low quality in the wrong area. misdirection or incompetence? both?

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:01 AM (rDidD)

153 Oh, good, you guys are here.  All I can think about is that plane.

Posted by: Peaches at March 15, 2014 11:03 AM (8lmkt)

154 well, the thing about someone using it as a weapon is that it may be they want to use this plane as a weapon or they may be trying our some new tactics so they are able to use some other plane as a weapon. malaysian plane is a dry run to see if it was possible to gain control, see how everyone responded modify / trouble shoot and nab a plane closer to the target in the future.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:05 AM (rDidD)

155 Ted Cruz responds to badass posters:

https://mobile.twitter.com/tedcruz/status/444834924609019904

Heh.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 15, 2014 11:05 AM (aq/zi)

156 Of course, one option that seems likely is that this was a hijacking or pilot gone wild, but something happened that screwed up the plan. That would explain a lot of the things that just don't make sense.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 11:05 AM (hFL/3)

157 Peaches!

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:05 AM (rDidD)

158 I read where India is this thinking this might have been an 9/11 attack on them that failed, Pakistan was behind the Mumbai terror attacks.

Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at March 15, 2014 11:06 AM (b6koZ)

159 OK, logic says if bad guys have the plane and a bomb-type mission, they aren't going to fly very far as that vastly increases the risk of getting shot down. And this report about the pilot's family "moving". Did they move somewhere known or just disappear?

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:06 AM (jTKU5)

160 already all the info about leaky satellite communications has been really valuable for future attacks.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:06 AM (rDidD)

161 I just don't see the jet being used as a weapon.

Posted by: Truck Monkey

---

I don't either.  The logistics involved    would likely cost more than buying a plane, and avoiding the search parties.  Even easier would be to purchase a freighter and put a    nuclear/biological/chemical     weapon on it, and sail to a port.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 15, 2014 11:07 AM (/i3Yt)

162 Let's hope for their sake that the passengers have already met their maker.  I too am real curious to see what's next.  It is obvious to me that whoever has the plane has designs to do something with it.  What though is the question....

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Gruntled New Business Owner at March 15, 2014 11:07 AM (jucos)

163 Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR Masked gunmen stormed Moscow hotel in #Simferopol where mainly international journalists are staying | PR news #russiainvadesukraine

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 11:08 AM (ZPrif)

164 There are so many theories and all but the most absurd are at least somewhat in play based on past air disasters. The thing is that some Overall Theories, say, catastrophic explosion followed by a plunge into the sea at the moment they lost contact, are seeming less credible as more complex theories become more likely. Do we ignore the fake passport travelers and focus on an electrical fire? Do we dismiss the co-pilot selfies or does that make him a dangerous wildcard? If it's mechanical, it's not pilot, if it's pilot, it's not mechanical. Likewise if it's shoot down, unknown passenger(s) with a bomb, or a big international cover-up, they moot each other.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 11:08 AM (ZshNr)

165 "151 I rely on God! Posted by: Gamee Al-Batouti EgyptAir 990 at March 15, 2014 03:01 PM (Aif/5)" Re-read how the Egyptian government tried to cover up this situation. A-fucking-bysmal.

Posted by: Throat Wobbler Mangrove at March 15, 2014 11:09 AM (sZBpq)

166 BTW, Amelia Earhart has a decendant named Amelia Earhart who flies in a helicopter for a Denver news station. She's much hotter than the original.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:10 AM (jTKU5)

167 "Posted by: torquewrench at March 15, 2014 12:52 PM (gqT4g)" This rant is spot-on. Peggy Noonan can go fuck herself.

Posted by: Throat Wobbler Mangrove at March 15, 2014 11:11 AM (sZBpq)

168 The Ides! Beware! Beware!

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 15, 2014 11:11 AM (dfYL9)

169 She's much hotter than the original. ------- Yes she is. And thank you google.

Posted by: Gamee Al-Batouti EgyptAir 990 at March 15, 2014 11:13 AM (Aif/5)

170 Does anyone know any more about the pilot's family moving out of their home? Also, wouldn't India have noticed something on their radar as a lot of the suspected airspace is theirs.

Posted by: Spring Fling at March 15, 2014 11:13 AM (i7KmQ)

171 Off jihadi sock

Posted by: Adam at March 15, 2014 11:13 AM (Aif/5)

172 What's interesting to me is that we now know the plane was flying for 5+ hours -- after an intense search for it was already underway. That clearly shows a severe deficiency in the system. Presumably every tool was being used to locate the plane -- although perhaps not, perhaps they just assumed it had crashed immediately and therefore didn't look. I thought in last decade or so the Air Force had been wanting to build space-based radar systems, but there had been funding problems and plans had been shelved. Not sure if the proposed space-based radar system would have helped in this scenario.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 11:13 AM (ZPrif)

173 Masked gunmen ---- ---- ---- In the last couple weeks, every time I read this it should say "Russian special forces". S-P-E-T-S-N-A-Z (for our friends in the MSM)

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 11:14 AM (sOtz/)

174 166 BTW, Amelia Earhart has a decendant named Amelia Earhart who flies in a helicopter for a Denver news station. She's much hotter than the original. Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 03:10 PM (jTKU5) Since you didn't provide a link, I naturally had to check her out. http://www.courier-journal.com/usatoday/article/2644117 Definitely a cutie, but sadly not related to the original.

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 11:15 AM (sdi6R)

175 I read a speculation in a Breitbart piece from yesterday that maybe there is a lot more known and possibly even a rescue operation underway or being planned, but they don't want the info out there for the obvious reasons.  To me, that would be the best possible scenario.

Posted by: Peaches at March 15, 2014 11:18 AM (8lmkt)

176 @164 Lincolnf Human agency seems far more likely. IANACAP, but the course corrections and altitude changes do not seem like the work of an autopilot. If the pilots were fighting the plane they would have communicated as step III. Going off the grid is not something good pilots do.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 11:18 AM (sOtz/)

177 Their families must be half mad with grief and wondering.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 15, 2014 11:22 AM (oMKp3)

178 Right now human agency is definitely the front-runner in my mind, but who/how/why/what's next, even granting that it was deliberate, is a mystery. A week ago, the most likely scenario was disappearing into the sea after losing contact, that seems to be the only thing now officially debunked.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 11:23 AM (ZshNr)

179 Definitely a cutie, but sadly not related to the original. Hmph. Could have sworn they pushed her as related. Oh well. The family moving, yes. Still wondering if their whereabouts are known or unknown. If unknown, something is definitely up. I'm running in and out loading equipment before the predicted rain starts...

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:24 AM (jTKU5)

180 Here's an article about the canceled Space Based Radar program. http://defensesystems.com/articles/2009/03/11/space-radar-in-flux.aspx Appears to have been cut in 2008 under Bush. Air Force had been hoping to launch the system in 2010. It was cut due to cost. It would have been a constellation of satellites costing $20-$25B. The main purpose would be warfighting and seeing anywhere on the globe. The desire for space based radar systems still is there, just a question of cost. Appears to have been a non-starter under Obama.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 11:25 AM (ZPrif)

181 177 Their families must be half mad with grief and wondering. Posted by: grammie winger at March 15, 2014 03:22 PM (oMKp3) -------------------- Yes. I cannot even imagine the emotional roller-coaster they must be riding right now.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 15, 2014 11:26 AM (dfYL9)

182 well, given the quality of information we have recieved so far, we really only know that eveyone is saying the plane is missing. not really gonna know anything until we get the plane. speculation and guessing is endlessly engaging.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:26 AM (rDidD)

183 CNN is now reporting that the 'incident' started before the last message. Was it the pilot or co-pilot who gave the "Alright, good night" message?

Posted by: Nylon66 at March 15, 2014 11:26 AM (YELrK)

184 Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 03:18 PM (sOtz/) The course changes show avoidance of local radar systems. Apparently there are corridors without coverage. This thing looks well planned. Transponder was cut off just at the switchover point from Malaysia to Vietnam, delaying recognition that the plane was "lost" and so on.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:27 AM (jTKU5)

185 Well I see that NASA is on the trail now so .......

Posted by: Spring Fling at March 15, 2014 11:27 AM (i7KmQ)

186 179 Definitely a cutie, but sadly not related to the original. Hmph. Could have sworn they pushed her as related. Oh well. Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 03:24 PM (jTKU5) The article said that she herself believed she was related her whole life, until recently when she had professional genealogists try to track it down. "So my connection to Amelia isn't what I thought it was. And I'll admit, the last 24 hours, they've been really hard. It's tough to hear that something you've believed your whole life just isn't true."'

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 11:29 AM (sdi6R)

187 A week ago, the most likely scenario was disappearing into the sea after losing contact, that seems to be the only thing now officially debunked. Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 03:23 PM (ZshNr) Or if it did go in the ocean it's a six-hour zig-zag flight mostly west from the original search area. Put another way, you may as well have been searching Mars for the last few days.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 11:29 AM (sOtz/)

188 One thing's for certain. Finding out the truth will be like skinning a rabbit because of the media's need to hide and lie about anything that is anti America pro anything that is anti-America anything that will make commies and their President Rock Star look bad.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at March 15, 2014 11:31 AM (4Chvm)

189 Yes, the new scenario still ends up with "poof".

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 11:31 AM (ZshNr)

190 Ah, thanks rickl. Good of her to admit it. She seems like a good kid who is really into her work.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:31 AM (jTKU5)

191 A) they want the plane

B) they want hostages

C) they want one particular passenger

D) they want something in the cargo

E) they want to defect

a - easier to rent or buy
b - I can think of easier ways to get 200 Chinese.
e - From Malaysia?

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 15, 2014 11:32 AM (DL2i+)

192 My wild conjecture concern for the plane as a weapon is what if they can spoof a legitimate passenger plane's transponder code and sneak in somewhere?   I have no idea how secure those transponder codes are, hopefully my wag is unpossible to implement. 

Posted by: PaleRider at March 15, 2014 11:33 AM (5CusZ)

193 The course changes show avoidance of local radar systems. Apparently there are corridors without coverage. This thing looks well planned. Transponder was cut off just at the switchover point from Malaysia to Vietnam, delaying recognition that the plane was "lost" and so on. Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 03:27 PM (jTKU5) That's Lex Luthor level terrorism unless the pilot was in on it. Where did you read that?

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 11:34 AM (sOtz/)

194 186 "So my connection to Amelia isn't what I thought it was. And I'll admit, the last 24 hours, they've been really hard. It's tough to hear that something you've believed your whole life just isn't true."' Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 03:29 PM (sdi6R) -------------- Oh, silly girl! ANYTHING can be true if you can just get enough people to b-e-l-i-e-v-e!!!!

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at March 15, 2014 11:34 AM (dfYL9)

195 Mysteries are a hobby of mine, and this is the best one I've chased in a while. The provenance and accuracy (or not) of the released information is a huge problem at this time.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:36 AM (jTKU5)

196 ZBR - Konarak (Military) Chabahar, Iran (IATA: ZBR, ICAO: OIZC) Boeing 777-200 maximum range: 5,240 nautical miles (9,700 km) zig-zag distance, Kuala-Lampur - ZBR: ~4,500 nm.

Posted by: just da facts, ma'am. at March 15, 2014 11:36 AM (3OADs)

197 #93 Danny Glover only kills Cuban-American pilots.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at March 15, 2014 11:36 AM (H0ISQ)

198 It wasn't me, pixy put those extra lines in, I was just failing at a bad how many chinese joke, you can't make me get in the barrel.  No, glub, glub, glub.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 15, 2014 11:37 AM (DL2i+)

199 The accuracy (or not) of the evidence are huge part o the mystery for me. What is motivating each of the many, many parties to release or withold information? Are we being fed deliberate misinformation or are people just ignorant?

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 11:38 AM (hFL/3)

200 Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 03:34 PM (sOtz/) Been so many places reading. There's a chart that shows the flight path and the various radar system coverages. Seems like it was CNN but it gets hard to remember, sorry.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:39 AM (jTKU5)

201 In the last couple weeks, every time I read this it should say "Russian special forces".

S-P-E-T-S-N-A-Z

Tom Clancy provides more accurate fiction than the news.

Posted by: DaveA[/i][/b][/s] at March 15, 2014 11:39 AM (DL2i+)

202 Are we being fed deliberate misinformation or are people just ignorant? Posted by: Lauren Yes. Heh.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:39 AM (jTKU5)

203 190 Good of her to admit it. She seems like a good kid who is really into her work. Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 03:31 PM (jTKU5) I'm not her, but I would feel a little awkward having that name now.

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 11:40 AM (sdi6R)

204 yeah, it is always frustrating when the faa holds a press conference and does not comment or address some events that seem obvious, however, given the alternative of malaysian authorities saying one thing one day and insisting they never said any such thing the following day, I guess I will take the no comment until the facts are in approach.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:40 AM (rDidD)

205 BEAGLE It's at Slate. Search: Missing Airliner May Have Reached Central Asia.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:41 AM (jTKU5)

206 have they accounted for the switch to daylight saving time when calculating range?

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:43 AM (rDidD)

207 My b-i-l is an ATC, I'd ask what his preferred theory is but we don't really speak since he went full Al Gore a few years ago, can't look me in the eye since.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 11:44 AM (ZshNr)

208 Crap, I've got to do some prep work for tonight's gig. Several new tunes for the band, plus a guest chickj singer doing three that I have to brush up on. Loving Black Velvet by Alannah Moore, bass line carries the song and I think I can cop the guy's cool tone pretty close too. Carry on and figure out the mystery. Another twenty minutes should do it.

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 11:45 AM (jTKU5)

209 If that zig-zag carefully dodged radar I would think the pilot or pilots were in on it. Without actually knowing that based on facts of course. Our security is in deep denial about Islam and jihad so when they say "no connections to terrorism" wrst the passengers or crew I know that is nearly worthless. Also, at a minimum, when you hear "good devout Muslim" alarm bells should go off in your head. From a kafir perspective, which is the only one I care about, a devout Muslim is far more dangerous than a lousy one.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 11:46 AM (sOtz/)

210 "a devout Muslim is far more dangerous than a lousy one." Agreed. Unless the lousy muslim has suddenly found "God" and heard the call to Jihad.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 11:48 AM (hFL/3)

211 I did not get the impression they dodged radar so much as spent some time in the boundary of air control zones. If reports are correct they overflew the malaysian peninsula which is not exactly dodging radar.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 11:49 AM (rDidD)

212 #10 Canadian citizenship tats, like Maoris.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at March 15, 2014 11:52 AM (9zzZj)

213 Yeah, the "dodging radar" bit seems a bit of an exaggeration at this point. Maybe it did. But maybe it didn't and the media is reading that into some noisy, confusing data.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 11:55 AM (ZPrif)

214 "One thing is certain: This was no accident. I think we can safely rule out things like cabin decompression, electrical failure, fires, and such."

Why? We really don't know anything new since it disappeared. Just a bunch of bullshit from the Malaysian government and speculation presented as fact from the press. We don't no shit for certain.

Posted by: lowandslow at March 15, 2014 11:55 AM (IV4od)

215 210 "a devout Muslim is far more dangerous than a lousy one." Agreed. Unless the lousy muslim has suddenly found "God" and heard the call to Jihad. Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 03:48 PM (hFL/3) Also known as "Sudden Jihadi Syndrome". It seems like "secular" Muslims educated in the West are especially susceptible.

Posted by: rickl at March 15, 2014 11:56 AM (sdi6R)

216 Well we know that the plane hasn't been found crashed into the ocean somewhere. That's pretty damning a week after the disappearance.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 11:58 AM (hFL/3)

217 Nothing's ruled out yet. Except aliens, the Rapture and Langoliers.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 11:58 AM (ZshNr)

218 Terrorists were invented by the CIA.

Posted by: Jeremiah Farrakhan at March 15, 2014 11:58 AM (Aif/5)

219 Well we know that the plane hasn't been found crashed into the ocean somewhere. That's pretty damning a week after the disappearance. Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 well, it may have ditched and sunk, not likely but not impossible.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 12:01 PM (rDidD)

220 they overflew the malaysian peninsula which is not exactly dodging radar. Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 03:49 PM (rDidD) Right. So was that accidental, a plane without human control, or on purpose for some nefarious end? Once you buy the sophisticated hijacking angle then it's possible to imagine a plane wanting to be seen by radar, establishing various headings, all in an effort to eventually get away. I don't recall anything quite like that ever.

Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 12:01 PM (sOtz/)

221 Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 03:58 PM (ZshNr)
---------
I think we can rule out the Rapture. Fenelon Spoke is still with us. At least as of yesterday. That leaves the Aliens and the Langoliers.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 15, 2014 12:02 PM (vVSOO)

222 > 213 Yeah, the "dodging radar" bit seems a bit of an exaggeration at this point. Maybe it did. But maybe it didn't and the media is reading that into some noisy, confusing data. Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 03:55 PM (ZPrif) See map of known flight path - http://airinfodotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/capture-d_c3a9cran-2014-03-14-c3a0-11-55-54.png Looks quite deliberate to me...

Posted by: just da facts, ma'am. at March 15, 2014 12:03 PM (3OADs)

223 Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 03:58 PM (hFL/3)
--------
They posited that the plane flew southwest. They weren't even looking that direction for almost a week. There is a huge amount of ocean out there and even a careful search could miss debris.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 15, 2014 12:04 PM (vVSOO)

224 Has anyone checked the flight manifest to see if there were any penguins on board. Maybe they pirated the plane to Antartica. You know, got tired of being flightless birds and all that. Could have disguised themselves as nuns. Or Corgis.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at March 15, 2014 12:06 PM (g4TxM)

225 You're allowed only four categories, choose your scenario and assign a percentage of likelihood to it. Feel free to adjust as things develop. Sample: Sudden Catastrophic Mechanical Failure, the jet is at the bottom of the South China Sea: 25% Pilot Suicide: 25% Plot to use in future terror strike, possibly nuclear: 25% Stolen for commercial criminal reasons, sale or drug smuggling : 25%

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 12:07 PM (ZshNr)

226 Hah! Imitating the cello part on Eleanor Rigby, fun. Glad we don't do Story In Your Eyes by the Moody Blues quite as fast as the record, it's kind of frantic. OK, next up...Pump It Up by Elvis Costello. Funky bass line!

Posted by: Meremortal at March 15, 2014 12:07 PM (jTKU5)

227 Call me a conspiracy theorist, but were there any Scandi's on-board? Just sayin'.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 15, 2014 12:07 PM (vVSOO)

228 Right. So was that accidental, a plane without human control, or on purpose for some nefarious end? Once you buy the sophisticated hijacking angle then it's possible to imagine a plane wanting to be seen by radar, establishing various headings, all in an effort to eventually get away. I don't recall anything quite like that ever. Posted by: Beagle at March 15, 2014 well, my "official position" is we do not really know anything, except everyone says a plane is missing. I would agree that there are some probabilities based on the publicly available information we have to work with, however, our publicly available information sucks. I am not saying you are wrong as much as I am saying I would leave it in the possible pile, with everything else.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 12:10 PM (rDidD)

229 Humans are very bad at looking at noisy data. We see patterns that don't exist.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 12:11 PM (ZPrif)

230 Humans are very bad at looking at noisy data. We see patterns that don't exist.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 12:11 PM (ZPrif)

231 Probably that psychotic mass murderer who doesn't exist.

Posted by: Bill Maher at March 15, 2014 12:13 PM (Aif/5)

232 Probably that psychotic mass murderer who doesn't exist.

Posted by: Bill Maher at March 15, 2014 12:13 PM (Aif/5)

233 Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 04:11 PM (ZPrif)
-----------
Good point. I remember hearing one time that the human brain is hardwired to "see" patterns. That's why we can see shapes in the clouds and what not.

Posted by: LFW - Honorary Pointy Eared Vulcan at March 15, 2014 12:14 PM (vVSOO)

234 If you were seeking a route to evade radar and you were experienced enough to fly the plane so you could make the turns at the precise waypoints that the zigzag track shows, why not simply get it lower and fly under the radar? If you have the navigation aids to skirt the edges of radar coverage you have to be able to avoid any dangerous terrain.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 12:15 PM (rDidD)

235 OT --- Virginia beat Pitt in ACC semifinal. DOOK and NC State tied right now in 2nd semi. What about the Tarheels? you ask. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 15, 2014 12:15 PM (dfYL9)

236 DaveA at 191)  Easier to rent or buy a plane --If this is state sponsored terrorism with the state wanting to avoid war being declared against them they certainly would not buy a plane and weaponize it, they'd want some 'plausible deniability.'     If there was just a large amount of gold on the plane then it could be theft, with smashing cell phones to avoid detection until they had time to get away with the loot --this might mean passengers still alive and just stranded.  I wish I thought this was a likely scenario. 

Posted by: PaleRider at March 15, 2014 12:25 PM (ql12X)

237 why not simply get it lower and fly under the radar? ---- ----- Frying chickens in the barnyard!

Posted by: General "Buck" Turgidson at March 15, 2014 12:30 PM (sOtz/)

238 Maybe the cargo included a metric shit-ton of Malaysian gold?

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at March 15, 2014 12:31 PM (V70Uh)

239 I don't rule out the gold heist scenario, could have been platinum, classified tech, anything super-valuable that happened to be passing through Malaysia. That scenario demands a landing, unless it was botched and they crashed into the sea. I'm no gangster, but hijacking the truck that's bringing the stuff to the airport seems easier.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 12:34 PM (ZshNr)

240 yeah, having a couple pieces of solid information would be nice.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 12:35 PM (rDidD)

241 well apparently the plane was carrying 50 fewer passengers than it was capable of and had some people flying standby that were not allowed aboard so maybe they did have some very heavy, very valuable cargo aboard

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 12:40 PM (rDidD)

242 Hmmmmm. That is interesting, yankeefifth.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 12:42 PM (hFL/3)

243 I'm no gangster, but hijacking the truck that's bringing the stuff to the airport seems easier.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 04:34 PM (ZshNr)


yeah, WAY easier, although I'm not a gangster either.

Posted by: Peaches at March 15, 2014 12:42 PM (8lmkt)

244 Everything is a low probability scenario at this point. Of course, the more complicated and the more people involved in the scenario, the lower the probability. Which is why I think some variant of crazy/suicidal pilot is still the most likely. As more info comes in, more scenarios can be ruled out. We just have a shortage of confirmed info.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 12:48 PM (ZPrif)

245 Everything is a low probability scenario at this point. Of course, the more complicated and the more people involved in the scenario, the lower the probability. Which is why I think some variant of crazy/suicidal pilot is still the most likely. As more info comes in, more scenarios can be ruled out. We just have a shortage of confirmed info. Posted by: Flatbush Joe equal parts frustrating and addicting.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 12:49 PM (rDidD)

246 apparently the plane was carrying 50 fewer passengers than it was capable of and had some people flying standby that were not allowed aboard so maybe they did have some very heavy, very valuable cargo aboard

wow, Y5, that's the first I've seen that information, very weird.  also, don't know where the story about the pilot's family moving was seen, anybody know?

Posted by: Peaches at March 15, 2014 12:49 PM (8lmkt)

247 The Ides! Beware! Beware! Posted by: Soothsayer at March 15, 2014 03:11 PM (dfYL9) He is a dreamer, let us leave him; pass.

Posted by: Julius Fuckin' Caesar at March 15, 2014 12:59 PM (DB1vy)

248 "Reports coming out of China that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah's wife and three children had moved out of the family home the day before flight MH370 disappeared." From http://tinyurl.com/p448wtm

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 12:59 PM (hFL/3)

249 Warning for that link, they have pictures of the little children who were onboard the flight. Poor little souls. For their sake I hope that their death was quick and painless.

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 01:03 PM (hFL/3)

250 Andrew A. Michta ‏@andrewmichta Russian Troops Seize Gas Plant Beyond Crimean Border, Ukraine Says http://nyti.ms/1qGA9u9

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at March 15, 2014 01:05 PM (ZPrif)

251 The pic in the link shows a woman, apparently the wife, standing with members of two different Govt. agencies, I have to believe it was taken after the plane disappeared. I'm on tablet so if the story had multiple pages or sidebars, I didn't see them.

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 15, 2014 01:07 PM (ZshNr)

252 Let's talk about those altitude changes for a minute.  It's reported that the plane went to 45,000 feet and then back to (I think) 23,000 feet.  Is it possible that they went so high in order to get a radio signal out?  NDH? 

Posted by: creeper at March 15, 2014 01:07 PM (MLvXa)

253 Lauren, thank you for that link!  Off to read it now, thereby postponing the household drudgery for a few more minutes.

Posted by: Peaches at March 15, 2014 01:07 PM (8lmkt)

254 whoa, they moved out the day *before* the plane disappeared? 

Posted by: Peaches at March 15, 2014 01:09 PM (8lmkt)

255 Yeah, that seems pretty suspicious.... Did the move out and then the pilot went crazy/suicidal? Or Did they "move" out by force and the pilot was being blackmailed?

Posted by: Lauren at March 15, 2014 01:15 PM (hFL/3)

256 248 And Crimea is voting tomorrow on separation with heavy Russian military presence. Wonder how that vote will go....

Posted by: ManWithNoParty at March 15, 2014 01:15 PM (ojnk6)

257 Lauren @246

Good catch.  And ugh.

Posted by: creeper at March 15, 2014 01:21 PM (MLvXa)

258 YankeeFifth @232

Because your range goes to hell if you fly low.  That baby eats fuel so fast you can watch the gauges spin.

Posted by: creeper at March 15, 2014 01:27 PM (MLvXa)

259 YankeeFifth @232 Because your range goes to hell if you fly low. That baby eats fuel so fast you can watch the gauges spin. Posted by: creeper hey. I agree with you on fuel consumption. my point was the course with the zigzag is not necessarily indicative of someone seeking to avoid radar and or a skilled flyboy. if it was to evade radar it was unsuccessful. if his primary concern was evading radar flying low would have been better admittedly with other trade offs.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 02:01 PM (rDidD)

260 even more far flung guessing, but if it was flying a cargo of gold a thunderball style ditching is the way to go. have someone load the gold into a ship and of you go.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 15, 2014 02:04 PM (rDidD)

261 Just got here, whew.
The last handshake was at 8:10; they know where the plane was going.
No one has mentioned ground effect, doesn't it increase fuel economy?

Posted by: CO at March 15, 2014 04:56 PM (YccS3)

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