1 cue some mountain shack-occupying idiot with impossibly silly standards calling Ryan a RINO!!!! in 3...2...

2 He'd get our votes, for sure. Would love to see him run. Would really LOVE to see him debate Barry. Oh, that'd be so very sweet.

3 Bring it dude...stand up...we NEED you. Tweet ur weiner if u want...just RUN!

4 Sorry to disappoint, CAC.

5

Here's the thing about Paul Ryan. He's smart and he isn't corrupt. So, he is basically alone in DC.

He also kicks ass.

6 I sometimes wonder if Democrats have just never paid off a personal debt, and got that wonderful feeling of having significantly more money to use every month. They fight to keep hundred-million-dollar programs in the budget. Imagine 250 billion dollars more every year that could be used for other things.

7 An excellent debate for sure; obozo with the hysterical threats and telling people to keep spending, being countered with how the world is and how the country can be great again with some planning and sacrifice. There is a segment of the country who finds this kind of talk disturbing, but they are useless and still outnumbered. I hope.    

8 Paul Ryan is the Real Deal.

9 Ryanista?  Ryanbot?  How about Ryano?

It's the important questions I ponder.

10

Let me also say this: The LEFT WING DEMOCRAT establishment is terrified that someone might clean up and reform MediCare and make it work in concert with a free and competitive marketplace-- outside the confines of government control and graft.

That's why desperate leftwing democrats make silly desperate ads depicting Paul Ryan shoving granny off a cliff. That's the smell of democrat desperation.

11

Posted by: CAC at June 04, 2011 05:13 PM (dTagR)

I'll reserve my name calling for someone else thank you very much.   ...and I don't occupy a mountain shack.

12 You know who else had optimism?  Ronald Reagan.

You know who else was bullish on America?  Ronald Reagan

You know who else  looked at challenges and say better days ahead?  Ronald Reagan

You know who else looked good on camera?  Ronald Reagan

You know who else beat America's Worst President?  Ronald Reagan

13 He sleeps in his office. Goes home to his wife, would never chew gum during a church service (like JEF).Would not want DC to be Hollywood East. It would be like clean fresh air blew through DC. He reminds me of Linclon.

14 The biggest question is who would trounce Obama in a humiliating public debate. He already has, though that was only on C-SPAN. I would love to see Obama eviscerated in front of a wide TV audience. That alone would make a Ryan run worth it.

15 I've emailed Governor Roemer and have asked him to strongly consider Paul Ryan for VP after he clinches the nomination.

16 would never chew gum during a church service (like JEF)


I've sat behind Paul Ryan in church and I can verify the no-gum-chewing thingie.

17 Heh. Wench on Fox News claims the climate of business uncertainty is being caused by the Republican spending cut proposals.

18 No. Not bored.  I've been pushing Ryan for the last 6 years and have no intention of stopping now.  Sorry if that irritates you.

19 U got to to get patriot some support. If I could I would. U can. Set up a pay pal accout and get some donations for a retainer. If he had an nda for an initial conversation he might be more open with you and breitbart.

20 #16 Uh. I have David Dreier. So if Ryan is your congressman, you could understand the sheer hate and jealousy I have for people in a district represented by someone as kick-ass as Paul Ryan.

21 WTF?  Are you just bored, or something?

No, I'm just sick of everyone ignoring my oft given please remember the lube advice.

22 Better jump in quick Gov. Perry. Suddenly a race between Ryan, Perry , Pawlenty and Romney looks pretty good- unless you're Dear Leader

23

CAC - The biggest question is who would trounce Obama in a humiliating public debate.
PR- and it would be a sweet and delicious evisceration. Of course our pathetic pro-democrat media are already thinking of ways to pimp their lord and savior - Obozo and trip Ryan with some bullshit. That's what they do.

What is so awesome about Ryan is he's too smart for the leftwing sycophants in our depressing unprofessional media.

 

24 Id kick at least 100 myself.

25 Posted by: mama winger at June 04, 2011 05:21 PM (R9bQ9)

Heh. I didn't want to go there since I'm trying to cut down on my "we need a Regan" pitch but I'm glad my subtle hints weren't too subtle.

26 osted by: mama winger at June 04, 2011 05:24 PM (R9bQ9) Mama, did you see the letter he sent to Arch Bishop Dolan when he was sneered at by the lefty "Catholics" for not pursuing "social justice?"

27 Ace u listening?

28 you could understand the sheer hate and jealousy I have for people in a district represented by someone as kick-ass as Paul Ryan.


Well, I did sorta pay my dues.  I did have Feingold for 18 years.

29 What is so awesome about Ryan is he's too smart for the leftwing sycophants in our depressing unprofessional media.

I cannot imagine possessing the dignity and strength of character to sit there while someone lies about me and insults me to my face the way Ryan did.  He had my vote right then and there.

30 Going out on a limb here: has NOT been passing thru life on an affirmative action free ride?

31 If Ryan ran...and won...and got his plan PASSED through a Republican Congress and Republican Senate... it would be the end of the Democratic party as exists today. The lefties would go apoplectic, the "Blue Dogs" would try to preserve the party, and there would be a great, wonderful sound of woe and teeth gnashing in San Fransisco, Madison, Austin, Seattle and Manhattan.

32 17 Will you people (you know who you are) stop trying to push so hard for Ryan?

Fine.  I'll stop pushing for Ryan and go with my original pic, Mittens. 

/I'm kidding, just so you know. 

33 Mama, did you see the letter he sent to Arch Bishop Dolan when he was sneered at by the lefty "Catholics" for not pursuing "social justice?" Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 05:28 PM


I have to admit I did not.  I'll have to find a link to that.  Maybe the Anchoress has it.

Full disclosure, I'm not Catholic like Paul Ryan is, but he does try to go around to various churches in the community here when he has a chance, and that's where I've worshiped with him.

34 If Ryan ran...and won...and got his plan PASSED through a Republican Congress and Republican Senate... it would be the end of the Democratic party as exists today. The lefties would go apoplectic, the "Blue Dogs" would try to preserve the party, and there would be a great, wonderful sound of woe and teeth gnashing in San Fransisco, Madison, Austin, Seattle and Manhattan. Posted by: CAC at June 04, 2011 05:31 PM (dTagR) I have a dream like that almost every night

35 Please God - let Paul Ryan run. Amen

36 Well, I did sorta pay my dues. I did have Feingold for 18 years. Posted by: mama winger at June 04, 2011 05:30 PM (R9bQ9) and again, you elected Johnson. Meanwhile, Meg Witless shit herself in the electoral swimming pool enough to drown Carly Fiorina. So I am still stuck with Boxer.

37 To think he gets paid as much at the twitdic. Disgraceful.

38 Will you people (you know who you are) stop trying to push so hard for Ryan? Well you really can't blame them for pushing Ryan, since you really need more umph to push the Fat Man from NJ. Just saying

39

Ryan smells of small town tea party.  It's Mitts turn.  If we know what's best for us we'll line up behind him early.

40 The Ryan response to Pundits:

Sometimes you get drafted. Noble sacrifice.  And considering Obama, maybe not half wrong.

41 Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 04, 2011 05:31 PM (G/MYk)

Yeah, highlighting eloquent expressions of conservative thought is such a waste of time. I mean, why would a conservative blog do that?

Just curious but who are you pushing again (I honestly don't know)?

42 and again, you elected Johnson.


The last Wisconsin election was like the impossible dream come true. For the first time in my life, I live in a red state.  I love this color.

43 I wish Brett Baier had advertised more that he had a Medicare Special that pre-empted Beck yesterday.  It was Ryan vs. Van Hollen for 40 minutes.  It was a thing of beauty. 

44 If we are playing fantasy island can someone persuade Romney to manage Ryan's campaign instead of running himself?

45 #44 Wisconsin shifting hard was the moneyshot of 2010.

46 Posted by: DrewM. at June 04, 2011 05:35 PM (y07gN)

Do we even know if Ryan is natural born?

47

Wisconsin shifting hard was the moneyshot of 2010.

I thought Peter North's big victory in the San Fernando Valley was the big moneyshot of 2010.

 It was Ryan vs. Van Hollen for 40 minutes.  It was a thing of beauty. 

Agreed.  I just happened to stumble on it.  It was good.  Van Hollen was quite the dissembler.

48 Ryan/West 2012 Drew is he friendly with West?

49 I'm going to push whoever I damn well want to push. I've been praying that Ryan will get into the race. I don't care if he doesn't want to. The best leaders don't. Who wants to be put through the douchbaggery of the liberals during a campaign?

50 I think I was on here a couple of years ago and brought up Paul Ryan as a potential president.  No one had ever heard about him and I was quickly dismissed.

I will not say I told you so , but I am saying I told you so.

51 I will not say I told you so , but I am saying I told you so. Posted by: mama winger at June 04, 2011 05:43 PM (R9bQ9) Yeah, OK, but how are the CUBS doing?

52

I like people who can be taken at their word. If someone says, "I am NOT running in 2012," then I assume he won't be running. I like words to have meaning.  I don't like liars.  Call me silly.

So no one can honestly change their mind?

We both know politics isn't pure.  Even Bachmann plays politics.  They all do.  It's part of the job.

53

I like people who can be taken at their word. If someone says, "I am NOT running in 2012," then I assume he won't be running. I like words to have meaning.  I don't like liars.  Call me silly.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 04, 2011 05:42 PM (G/MYk)

Is there any place in your world for changing your mind due to changing circumstances?  It was the truth at the time, but you came to see things in a different light?  For example, everything looked black, but now it looks white?

54 progressoverpeace, for flip's sake, you're really concerned he was lying if he runs? Get a grip.

55 Paul Ryan quoted a book, "The Weary Titan" , in his foreign policy speech two days ago.  Anybody here read it?

56 48 Do we even know if Ryan is natural born?
__________

Given that first test tube baby was only born 33 years ago, that shouldn't be a problem for a couple more years.

57 The whole "he was lying" deal is stupid, let's not even entertain it.

58

We both know politics isn't pure.  Even Bachmann plays politics.  They all do.  It's part of the job.

Everyone except...

59 I like words to have meaning.  I don't like liars.

You seriously are not so daft as to be unable to comprehend the distinction between lying about running and being drafted to run. 

60 Yeah, OK, but how are the CUBS doing?


Yer killin me here.....  Is it too much to ask before I die that I see the Cubs in the Wor.....

can't even say the words.

61 Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 05:42 PM (ice9D)

I haven't a clue.

Let's not worry about his VP choice yet but...it won't be another Congressman.A guy like Ryan would probably have to go with a southern or western Governor type.

62 Drew, just need some who is clear that many Muslims hate our guts.

63 OK, I have not seen anyone add a "but Ryan did xyz" response.  Has he had some policy faux pas?  Was he ever a climate change guy?  I honestly don't know.  Anyone?

64 He voted for Tarp but knows he was lied to.

65

Before the Faith and Freedom Coalition event yesterday, he gave an interview in which he once again said his place was in the House:

David Brody: “But you’re leaving your options open?”

Congressman Paul Ryan: “I’m not really leaving my options open. I’m not trying to give you loose talk. If you’re running for president you’ve got to be running for president. You’ve got to be lining it all up. You’ve got to be going to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I’m not doing any of those things. I am fighting to clean up this budget mess in Washington. We’re in the middle of a budget fight and I really think that I can do more for my constituency and country right where I am.”

66 59 48 Do we even know if Ryan is natural born?
__________

Given that first test tube baby was only born 33 years ago, that shouldn't be a problem for a couple more years.

Don't be ridiculous.  Nobody's truly natural born, as all babies come from the stork.  I know I was...

/Yeah, yeah, I'll stick with my day job.

67 If Ryan ran...and won...and got his plan PASSED through a Republican Congress and Republican Senate...
it would be the end of the Democratic party as exists today. The lefties would go apoplectic, the "Blue Dogs" would try to preserve the party, and there would be a great, wonderful sound of woe and teeth gnashing in San Fransisco, Madison, Austin, Seattle and Manhattan. Posted by: CAC
.........
You forgot to add one very important "if" in there..

"If Ryan ran...and won...and got his plan PASSED through a Republican Congress and Republican Senate..." and IF the plan works as he hopes..

Yeah.. that would be a great day.

I've liked Ryan since I first saw him several years ago commenting on one of Pelosi's dumbass budget proposals..  I fell in love with the guy when he dressed down Obama at the health care summit.

But I seriously disagreed with his inclusion of the Medicare plan in the budget as bad politics, and possibly costly for us in 2012.  But it is what it is.

I'd vote for the guy in a minute.  And if he won and got his plan through (60 votes in the Senate though? not so sure about that), and if it worked in slowing down the rising costs of Medicare without actually killing off grandma, then yeah.. it could mean a generation of wins for the GOP.

68 Yeah, OK, but how are the CUBS doing?

Posted by: nevergiveup at June 04, 2011 05:44 PM (BZbqK)

They're beating the Cards 4 - 2 at the moment.

69 Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 05:48 PM (ice9D)

Trust me, West is not going to be on a GOP ticket anytime soon, if ever.

70 It means nothing.  The entire world has gotten a hold of  the MSM  package and what they pronounce as Obamaspeak..He is sharp, way beyond intellectual, so bad, that, way, way beyond us,  we can't even keep up.     Just don't ask for specific facts, dates, elements in history, economics, or anything to do with profit, as this is a bad karma.   If you own a business, you must hire.  If you don't hire, and are losing money, come to us, there is a program, somewhere.    We will help.  (This is a long time ago:  My husband took a job at Honeywell, as a supervisor.   Right away, within the first week, he saw a big problem with this black gal who was extremely late everyday, but when he checked her records, she was absent from work, at an alarming rate.  My husband couldn't stand it, and went to his superiors to question why such a person could continue to collect a pay-check.  They, according to my husband, were quivering in their boots.  Well ,hell yes, you can fire such a non-productive, but she is black, then there is a mile-high, paper-work, essentially, why on earth, would you ever fire a black person, this has to be good, we have to make government quotas or else contracts are dried up altogether.

71

Christ, when is Drew or Ace going to give some equal time to top tier contender, Buddy Roemer?  How bout a map from CAC?

Unreal.

72 Yes, I'm pretty convinced and saddened that Ryan will not run. I know he wants to work on the budget from the house, however, I can dream.

73 Oh, and just for laughs, I think Romney is a political DOUCHE!

74 He voted for Tarp but knows he was lied to.

Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 05:49 PM (ice9D)

Eh, he was lying when he voted for it.

75 This is as close as we'll ever get, mama winger -

http://tinyurl.com/3exnbxr

76 Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 04, 2011 05:52 PM (ayzM7)

Right after we get that big Fred Karger profile done.

In other words...never.

77

 If Ryan were to change his mind, now, it would only be to say that he had terribly misjudged the situation a month ago ...

Or that he has determined that a run wouldn't be futile, that he would have a good chance at the nomination, and to make a difference.  Alot of guys don't run just to run, like Alan Keyes or something.  They have to know that it is feasible/plausible.

78

Nothing has changed.  Nothing.  Barky has not changed one iota since he first slimed into the White House and set about destroying the country.  The GOP field is no different than people had assumed it would turn out to be.  If Ryan were to change his mind, now, it would only be to say that he had terribly misjudged the situation a month ago ... and two months ago, and three months ago, ... and that is not a ringing endorsement of anything, in addition to having made the person who strenuously declared he wouldn't run, into a liar - at others' behest and encouragement - in a nation where the circumstances haven't changed at all since his last 50 denials.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 04, 2011 05:52 PM (G/MYk)

How about: no candidate has distinguished himself from the rest?  None can explain the Ryan plan?  No candidate has generated the excitement a winning candidate needs? 

It's an ongoing evaluation.  Must be nice to live in a black and white world.

79 OK, I have not seen anyone add a "but Ryan did xyz" response.  Has he had some policy faux pas?  Was he ever a climate change guy?  I honestly don't know.  Anyone?

He supports amnesty. 

80

In other words...never.

Don't be behind the curve like Drew, folks.  Better get onboard Morons.

81 50 I like people who can be taken at their word. If someone says, "I am NOT running in 2012," then I assume he won't be running. I like words to have meaning.  I don't like liars.  Call me silly.

The trouble is that a number of people are telling him that it's his duty to run, including historian Paul Rahe.

82

OK, I have not seen anyone add a "but Ryan did xyz" response.  Has he had some policy faux pas?  Was he ever a climate change guy?  I honestly don't know.  Anyone?

He supports amnesty. 

Please tell me that was in jest.  Please.

83 Here is Paul Ryan on Immigration Reform:

http://bit.ly/mNJKyj

84


_{^{HELLO?
Remember me?}}

85 He voted for Tarp but knows he was lied to. Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 05:49 PM (ice9D) Clarify: knows he was wrong.

86 So if Ryan thinks he's the best candidate, and most everybody else thinks he's the best candidate...then he shouldn't run, because he said so.

Do you want Barky to be reelected?

87 He supports amnesty. 
Posted by: Jon at June 04, 2011 05:56 PM (ouKNE)

Don't think so....

I believe new legislation should require illegal immigrants seeking a green card or citizenship to leave the United States and reapply in their home country. After illegal immigrants have reapplied, their petition would be placed at the “back of the line,” behind all other legal immigrants’ petitions. Proposals like the “Z visa,” which would have allowed an illegal immigrant to stay in America indefinitely through continual renewals, are not an effective way of dealing with the problem. They serve the same purpose as acquiring a green card, without having to leave the country or waiting at the end of the line. In my opinion, this approach amounts to amnesty.

88 The biggest question is who would trounce Obama in a humiliating public debate.


He already has, though that was only on C-SPAN.

I would love to see Obama eviscerated in front of a wide TV audience.

That alone would make a Ryan run worth it.

Posted by: CAC at June 04, 2011 05:22 PM (dTagR)

-------

Would never happen.  We don't have Presidential Debates.  We have dueling press conferences.  Also, Ryan is at a disadvantage in that his positions often require getting into the minutia of Gov. accounting.  Obama, or any Democrat, can just rebut with "..but they want to give Tax cuts to Oil Companies...".

89 I like this guy. He is smart and he can think on his feet. We need that.

90 Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance.

91 Sorry, that link above is a little old.

92 I heard Ryan do an interview on Fox and he mentioned that he had hoped Mitch Daniels would get in the race and was disappointed when he did not..and I thought right then and there, he has thought about running. He might have thought that if Daniels gets in..I won't..but Mitch is not running...so maybe....

93

It is a nice world I live in, but "black and white" is not its main characteristic.  I'm not sure where you get that idea from.  Contracts and promises/declarations are "black and white", but that doesn't make ones whole world nothing but black and white.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 04, 2011 06:01 PM (G/MYk)

Promises/declarations are not black and white.  Not according to contract law, anyway.  So you don't see any way someone can say something and be absolutely honest, then later change their mind and/or see changed circumstances and contradict it?

People are begging him to run, telling him it's his duty, but he's a damned liar if he decides to run.

Damn.  Stick with the natural born citizen crap.  It's slightly less crazy.

94 Paul Ryan on the issues.  Decide for yourself :

http://bit.ly/9CRTVM

95 87 Here is Paul Ryan on Immigration Reform:

http://bit.ly/mNJKyj
Thanks.  Disappointing.  But, the latest data ended in 2006.  Has he seen the light in the last 5 years?  Huge issue for me, let me tell ya. 

96

92 He supports amnesty. 
Posted by: Jon at June 04, 2011 05:56 PM (ouKNE)

 

No, he does not. His stance on illegal immigration is a lot like Palin's. I mean come on...

97 If you scroll down that last link, you will see all the hot issues rated as "Strongly Opposes" ,"Strongly Supports" and everything in between.

98 Posted by: sybilll at June 04, 2011 06:07 PM (vbKhk)

Just curious but what at that link was disappointing?

He has 0 Rating from one of the leading amnesty groups. Seems pretty good to me.

99

Would never happen.  We don't have Presidential Debates.  We have dueling press conferences.  Also, Ryan is at a disadvantage in that his positions often require getting into the minutia of Gov. accounting.  Obama, or any Democrat, can just rebut with "..but they want to give Tax cuts to Oil Companies...".

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 04, 2011 06:03 PM (bAySe)

And you have the MBM laundering any O comments so that they appear to be brilliant! 
And editing Ryan (or R) comments out of context so that they appear evil!

100 89 He voted for Tarp but knows he was lied to.
Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 05:49 PM (ice9D)

Clarify: knows he was wrong.

Posted by: madamex at June 04, 2011 06:00 PM (ice9D)

 

I do not know that this is true. Like it or not TARP worked and it is actually  on track to make a profit. And TARP is not the stimulus or the auto bailout or any of that, it was an emergency program that was created for a specific purpose and it served that purpose. I am sure there were things about the program that Ryan would have changed..but I don't think most of the people who signed onto it are saying that standing back and doing nothing while the financial sector collapsed would have been a better choice. 

101 99 87 Here is Paul Ryan on Immigration Reform:

http://bit.ly/mNJKyj
Thanks.  Disappointing.  But, the latest data ended in 2006.  Has he seen the light in the last 5 years?  Huge issue for me, let me tell ya.

He opposed the DREAM Act, voted for a Border Security Supplemental (the border fence) in 2010, and he voted for two amendments increasing funding for border security (fencing and infrastructure) and enforcement (detention and removal) on June 1st. In 2011, he introduced employee verification legislation.

102 SHOOOOOOOT, Ryan likes Mitch Daniels?

103 If Ryan were to declare next week he'd go to the top of my list, above Cain and Bachmann (semi-declared).  But I'm not as confident as others that he can catch on with the American public.  He comes across as a bit serious... like he is laser-focused on the debt problems and has no time for joviality.  I dunno, maybe he has another side that I haven't seen.  I'd like to see if he can bring some of that Reagan charm and humor that non-political folks love to see in their candidates.

For the record, I'd put Thadeus McCotter ahead of Ryan if he also ends up in the mix.

104 Salivating at the prospect of Ryan debating Preznit Training Pants. Ryan is like the American Bibi in that regard, I should think.

105

104

Just curious but what at that link was disappointing?

He has 0 Rating from one of the leading amnesty groups. Seems pretty good to me.

I am not a one party issue voter, but I set the bar pretty damn high on Immigration.  Just you having to ask me that is an eye opener.  I want the Marxist out of our White House, period.  I need to lighten up on *some* issues.  As I will on this one.  On Mitt's climate change, uh hell to the no.

 

106 Paul Ryan drove a Weinermobile as a kid - no kidding!

107 106 89 

I do not know that this is true. Like it or not TARP worked and it is actually  on track to make a profit. And TARP is not the stimulus or the auto bailout or any of that, it was an emergency program that was created for a specific purpose and it served that purpose. I am sure there were things about the program that Ryan would have changed..but I don't think most of the people who signed onto it are saying that standing back and doing nothing while the financial sector collapsed would have been a better choice. 

To the point about changing things, Ryan and Jeb Hensarling wrote a conservative alternative to TARP which Pelosi did not allow to come to vote. She did allow certain provisions of their bill to be in the final draft, however. I'm not sure what is in the legislation as I never read their bill, but it's further evidence that it wasn't his first choice. In the end, it was a matter of picking your poison.

108  Ryan said the following in a recent speech:

America's "exceptionalism" is just this--while most nations at most times have claimed their own history or culture to be exclusive, America's foundations are not our own--they belong equally to every person everywhere.

Our foundations not our own. Got it. What we really need is more Universalist Open Borders rhetoric such as this? This is really no different than what we've heard from Black Bastard, and from GW before him. McCain also made similar statements during one of the debates in '08- that the US was not a physical, defined space or thing, but a transcendant idea.

This makes no distinction between the People, and the Ideals that comprise the foundations of our society and our government. This kind of thinking is very dangerous and is what lies beneath so many policies which are destructive to this country.

109 Thinking about it, McCotter would make a AWESOME VP-pick.  His dry wit against Obama/Biden could be devastating while playing the attack-dog role of  the VP candidate.


Ryan/McCotter '12

110

one party issue voter aka one issue party voter.  Sheesh. 

111

TARP did not work as advertised. We are not ever going to realize a "profit" from anything the JEF does.

Ever.

All he knows how to do is destroy, not build. Typical Marxist.

Now, back on topic, Ryan would eviscerate The Vapid One™ again in any debate. He looks more like a Republican JFK than Reagan, younger, good-looking and able to speak clearly on the issues.

I'd vote for him if he ran, and I can say that about more Repubs now than I could one month ago.

112 Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance.

I don't know who USBC is but their rating system is a joke, because it agrees with John McCain that his"comprehensive immigration reform" bill, which Ryan co-sponsored,. wasn't amnesty.  Nobody who takes border security seriously disputes that McCain's bill was amnesty.

NumbersUSA is the major immigration hawk lobby and they give Ryan their lowest possible rating on amnesty.  When they asked him if he opposed amnesty, he replied "no".

113 By the fucking way...


What the hell does "JEF" stand for anyways?

114 117 Thinking about it, McCotter would make a AWESOME VP-pick.  His dry wit against Obama/Biden could be devastating while playing the attack-dog role of  the VP candidate.


Ryan/McCotter '12
I'd love that, too.  But, as you know, Obama single handedly killed OBL, and the media will remind us of that every day for the next 17 months, we need someone on the ticket that screams foreign policy experience......in walks Allen West. 

115 110 SHOOOOOOOT, Ryan likes Mitch Daniels?

Yes, and lots of conservative pols do. Mike Pence was another person disappointed Mitch Daniels wasn't running.

111 If Ryan were to declare next week he'd go to the top of my list, above Cain and Bachmann (semi-declared).  But I'm not as confident as others that he can catch on with the American public.  He comes across as a bit serious... like he is laser-focused on the debt problems and has no time for joviality.  I dunno, maybe he has another side that I haven't seen.  I'd like to see if he can bring some of that Reagan charm and humor that non-political folks love to see in their candidates.

He has a sarcastic and dry sense of humor. Also can be self-deprecating. 

116 cue some mountain shack-occupying idiot with impossibly silly standards calling Ryan a RINO!!!! in 3...2...

LOL, he has an ACU rating of 96 for the last two years and the "On the Issues" site rates him to the right of Michelle Bachman.

I would hope nobody would rate him as a RINO.

117 Just curious but what at that link was disappointing?

He has 0 Rating from one of the leading amnesty groups. Seems pretty good to me.

Posted by: DrewM. at June 04, 2011 06:10 PM 

Drew, the zero rating was from FAIR. They are an anti-amnesty group, not pro-amnesty. 

118 What the hell does "JEF" stand for anyways?

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 04, 2011 06:30 PM (bAySe) >>>>>

 

Jug Eared F_______

119 Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 04, 2011 06:31 PM (2wfuC)

---

Yeah, I think you're right.  Now that you say that, I can recall him doing that in some of his Sunday interviews.  I believe the challenge for him, if he were to run and get the nomination, would be to refrain from getting too wonky and instead rely on punchy declarations that sum up his plans.

120  Ryan is also suspect on the immigration. I went to the page Drew linked, and though he give the impression that he's tough and principle, he still uses all the open borders type of code-speech, which signals that he leaves himself an out for supporting Amnesty-type of legislation.

He notes his opposition to the DREAM Act, then in the same breath says we must first seal the border. "First" seal the border- Second, well he leaves open what would come second, but we know exactly. It's coded language that tells us that while he disagrees with DREAM and other Amnesty propsals, he will eventually budge. He's setting up a trade-off between Amnesty and Border Security- give us one, we'll give the other. Which is insane. You secure the border in order to keep out twelve million illegals. Who gives a fuck if it's secure after they're here and you've just made them citizens!

He also repeats the same old "our immigration system is broken" bullshit. What a stupid, brainless thing to say. It means nothing. He says it takes too long for applicants to become citizens, and he wants to streamline the process. So we can handle illegal immigration simply by making it legal. Brilliant.

And he wants to increase immigration to the US. How insane is that? We are no longer a nation, but a notion.

121 120 I don't know who USBC is but their rating system is a joke, because it agrees with John McCain that his"comprehensive immigration reform" bill, which Ryan co-sponsored,. wasn't amnesty.  Nobody who takes border security seriously disputes that McCain's bill was amnesty.

Was that House bill (H.R.2330) actually the same as McCain's? Also, if Ryan is so gung-ho for amnesty, why did he oppose DREAM? That doesn't make any sense.

NumbersUSA is the major immigration hawk lobby and they give Ryan their lowest possible rating on amnesty.  When they asked him if he opposed amnesty, he replied "no".

NumbersUSA has a rating system in which they don't tell you how graded. They tried to claim he was terrible on some things that another on the issues sites claimed he's voted against. I've also never heard from his mouth that he supports amnesty. So I have a hard time trusting such an organization given the problems I saw with their grading system.

122 It's not Amnesty!! Jesus Fucking Christ!!!!!!!!!!

123 125 Ryan's ratings from FAIR:

111th Congress: Voted 100% for their legislation
100th: 11 for 12
109th: 9 for 13
108th: 8 for 12

124 www.draftryannow.com

125  Did Ryan support the 2006 Non Amnesty? I would never vote for someone who supported that. What a horrible nightmare that was. That was the 90 Days Terror- or however long that push went on for. I'll never forgive the GOP for even attempting to go there. That was really the precedent for the Obama/Pelosi/Reid Two Years Terror that culminated with the 2010 lame duck session. The GOP backed off Amnesty only because they didn't have the balls to do what the Democrats have done. But now that the Republicans have seen how it's done, I have no doubt they would pass Amnesty the way the Democrats did Obamacare if they ever got the chance.

126 www.draftryannow.com Sign the petition please.

127 Ryan/West 2012

128 McCain's plan was aiding and abetting an invasion.  Literally. -PoP

Don't forget what McCain went on to do during the '08 race. When he wanted the nomination, he said that he realized his Amnesty was so unpopular that he learned his lesson and would never again push it. And the rubes bought it. Then, after he got the nomination, he began immediately speaking about how Amnesty would be the top priority of his administration. And he's never been held to account for that disgusting lie. No one held him to it.

129

Paul Ryan should run if for no other reason then giving the best case about "his" plan which might be a major issue during the election. I want Ryan in the debates to fend off the mediscare crap.

As for winning the primary, my main concern with Ryan is the electability issue. Will the American people vote for just a congressman against a sitting President. Whether people like it or not its a huge issue. I am also somewhat worried that the Ryan brand name may have also taken a hit with independents the last cople of months. I would love to see some head to head polls against Obama or atleast a favorability rating of Ryan from the last few weeks.

130 @132

Like McCain, Ryan seems to have moved from amnesty right now as part of "comprehensive reform", to amnesty after the border is secure.  So, like McCain, he's generally voting the right way on border security now.  But he still wants amnesty in the future. 

According to NumbersUSA, Ryan responded "no" to this question on their survey:

"Do you oppose offering the officially estimated 11 million people illegally in the US long-term work permits and/or a path to citizenship"


And he also responded "no" when asked if he supported reducing federal funding to sanctuary cities. 

131 The 2006 Amnesty Act was passed overwhelmingly in the Senate. When it went to the House the public had got wind of what was in it.

It was about this time that the Republican base was becoming sick of the crap that was coming down and the telephones in DC started ringing so much that they had to take them off the hook.

Ryan never got to vote on the bill. It was killed before it came to vote.

132 So, like McCain, he's generally voting the right way on border security now.  But he still wants amnesty in the future. -Jon

Exactly. Classic Bait'N Switch. This is Jan Brewer's game too. They get all puffed up and promise to seal the border, while not saying outright, but hinting, that this could be part of an Amnesty deal- then after they get the Amnesty, they won't seal the border. They're lying and playing us for dupes. Apparently it's really mean to point this out. We're not to be concerned with such trifles- beating Obama is all that matters.

133 139 @132 Like McCain, Ryan seems to have moved from amnesty right now as part of "comprehensive reform", to amnesty after the border is secure.  So, like McCain, he's generally voting the right way on border security now.  But he still wants amnesty in the future. 

According to NumbersUSA, Ryan responded "no" to this question on their survey:

"Do you oppose offering the officially estimated 11 million people illegally in the US long-term work permits and/or a path to citizenship"

And he also responded "no" when asked if he supported reducing federal funding to sanctuary cities.


McCain and Ryan aren't the same person and it's unfair to assume they're acting the same way. How do we know that Ryan isn't voting more aggressively on the issue because he's come around to that point of view? McCain also had presidential ambitions that factored into his change of heart and Ryan's always wanted to be chairman of Ways & Means, not president. So it's fair to say we know what McCain wants but not about Ryan.

As for the NumbersUSA survey (more specifically), I'm skeptical of them because (as I said) no real metric and their grades don't seem to match the records. FAIR can at least tell me which legislation they graded on and why. While Ryan's grade in 2003 is concerning, his recent record is good and he voted for the border security and enforcement appr. amendments this past week. So I'd like to hear more from him before making a judgment call.

134 Posted by: Jon at June 04, 2011 06:35 PM (ouKNE)

You're right. I fucked up about FAIR.

I still don't see how saying illegals have to leave the country, apply for residency and go to the back of the line behind everyone else is even remotely pro-Amnesty.

135 Irreparable damage ... as has long been warned.

Yeah, you can't unrape a girl. She will go on living in whatever way, but she'll never be the same. I had a nauseous sinking feeling when Obamacare was passed and it hasn't gone away- I just live with it. The country will never be the same. Even if Obamacare is repealed- which isn't a given even if the three branches were all GOP- the fact that it was passed means something. It sets a dark precedent.

136 The problem with the 2005/2006 law that was proposed was that it was designed to be unenforceable. Like the previous "immigration reform" the floodgates would open to let them in, they would get cards and the provisions to tighten the borders and stop the illegals would never be enforced because they were designed so that they could not be enforced.

137 I still don't see how saying illegals have to leave the country, apply for residency and go to the back of the line behind everyone else is even remotely pro-Amnesty -DrewM

Vic has it exactly right above. The proposal is unenforcable. It wasn't serious to begin with. It was language devised as a means to throw sand in the eyes of the public. It was just hiding behind language. What does it mean to "go to the back of the line"? Nothing. It's not supposed to. Anyone who signs on to such language is not serious. They want Amnesty and they use big words and bullshit proposals to make it seem something else- like putting a bitter pill in a piece of cheese. The "go to the back of the line" nonsense was just put there to distract from the taste.

138 The GOP still hasn't figured out that it was their asinine and un-Constitutional push to aid and abet illegals that killed the party. - progressoverpeace

Which is why I'm not on the AnybodybutObamabandwagon. Why would I vote to follow the disaster of Obamacare with the greater calamity of Amnesty.

And the 2006 Amnesty would have been far, far worse than Obamacare. Obamacare can be repealed- if not all at once in 2012, it can at the very least be chipped away until it's nothing. Whether the death of it would happen in one day with a vote for repeal, or it's done by the thousand cuts- it can be undone.

Once twelve million people are given citizenship, that cannot be undone. And what would follow is beyond the imagination of most people, but it would be the beginning of the end for the US. National Suicide- in the words of Lawrence Auster

http://tinyurl.com/2uee6c6

The GOP has not renounced Amnesty. They are actually quite clear about gearing up for a second push. Since not one of the commonly considered candidates for the GOP nomination has specifically renounced Amnesty in any form, I will likely not cast a vote for president in the next election.

139 137 Don't forget what McCain went on to do during the '08 race. When he wanted the nomination, he said that he realized his Amnesty was so unpopular that he learned his lesson and would never again push it. And the rubes bought it. Then, after he got the nomination, he began immediately speaking about how Amnesty would be the top priority of his administration. And he's never been held to account for that disgusting lie. No one held him to it.
__________

Well, there is the little bit about how he lost...

140 He won re-election. The pro-Amnesty McCain beat the the anti-Amnesty Hayworth. With the almost unanimous support of the Right. The Democrats have us pegged perfectly- we really are a bunch of vicious rubes.

141  ...but it is still more likely for amnesty to come from dem leadership. - progressoverpeace

I couldn't disagree more. The Democrats are broken. The blew their last in the lame duck. Anyway, they know they don't really need to push it as they know just how much the GOP wants it. The GOP will not agree to Amnesty with Obama because they want so badly for it to be signed into law by a Republican president. The Dems know this, and they're also smart enough to know who wins by it. We can repeal Obamacare the first week of Jan. 2012, then pass Amnesty only to have Obamacare II passed in 2018 or 2024 or whenever.

But we can stop it. Simply by demanding a litmus test- the next GOP nominee must reject in the strongest terms any type of Amnesty. And not just reject it, but make the case for rejecting it and sound believable doing it.

142 Posted by: sartana at June 04, 2011 07:50 PM (/IW23)

So the guy wants illegals out of the country, no Z Visa bullshit but he's soft because he's saying they can apply for legal entry some point in the future, when the current backlog is cleared (which will be around never)?

143 No, he doesn't.  If that's what he had wanted, he would have said that illegals must leave or be deported.  Period.

Exactly. When Ryan uses the "go to the back of the line" phrase, that's a tell that he's signing on to the McCain bill from 2006. He might not be coming out directly and saying it, but by using that language that's a sign for us about his true intentions. If he rejected outright the McCain bill, he wouldn't still be trotting out the same ridiculous language. Unfortunately, nothing said by today's politicians from either party can be trusted and it's up to us read between the lines. And, Drew, from what I've read of the page you linked at Ryan's website, the guy cannot be trusted on this issue.

He does state clearly that he wants to increase legal immigration by streamlining the process. You would think a smart politician would broach the subject of increasing legal immigration only after the issue of our current illegal population was settled. We now have at least 12 million illegal aliens in this country, and have not agreed on what to do about them. Given that fact, can anyone who commits themselves to increased legal immigration be taken seriously?

144 What's interesting about our country, if you study history, is that there are some "isms" that occasionally pop up--pop up. One is isolationism and its evil twin protectionism and its evil triplet nativism. So if you study the '20s, for example, there was--there was an American first policy that said who cares what happens in Europe? ... And there was an immigration policy that I think during this period argued we had too many Jews and too many Italians; therefore we should have no immigrants. And my point is that we've been through this kind of period of isolationism, protectionism and nativism. I'm a little concerned that we may be going through the same period.

Who said this? Opponents of illegal immigration are "isolationist, protectionist and nativist? George W Bush said this in January of 2011 during the question and answer session of a speech he gave at Southern Methodist U. He stayed silent for Obama's entire first two years, while his wife out on numerous occasions to praise Obama- then when he does break his silence, does he attack the present White House for what they've done to us? No, he uses his only appearance to take one more swipe at the people who went to the mat defending him.

Notice how close this language is to Obama's speech in San Francisco in '08 where he referred to us as bitter clingers "clinging to guns and religion." It's not only Bush who sees this way- it's the entire ruling class. Both parties are united on this issue and they're going to do to us on Amnesty what they did with Obmacare unless they are stopped.

http://tinyurl.com/3vv5kz2

145 Mama Winger, PLEASE go tell Paul Ryan to his face that we need him to run!!!

Also anyone who thinks someone like JD Hayworth or Tom Tancredo will ever win a national election is completely delusional.  It's laughable.  Go ahead and call everyone who isn't on board with his stuff a RINO or "pro-amnesty" if you want, just like Numbers USA and VDARE and those fucking loons, but the rest of us in real life have had quite enough of losing to Democrats because of your repellent "shamnesty" rhetoric and impossible demands.  FFS!

It's like I keep saying, we'll never get a Paul Ryan for President because most fucking voters don't deserve someone that good.  Most people deserve the dumbed-down Idiocracy candidates we get.  (Mencken was right!)

146 Sartana - that's some link you gave there to support your argument. Another post from that blog is titled " The entitled barbarians of Black-Run America"

That about sounds like the kind of fucked up racist blog one might find that kind of extremist bullshit.  LOL

And people wonder why Hispanics don't vote Republican any more.  *shakes head*

147 sartana and progressoverpeace

You guys are nuts and deserve each other.

The guys says if they want to be legal, they have to leave the country. That's not what McCain and amnesty types want. They think illegals should be able to apply while staying here. Ryan specifically rejects that.

Take yes for an answer.

148 The guys says if they want to be legal, they have to leave the country.

Drew, if you google "paul ryan immigration" you'll get innumerable hits on people questioning Ryan's stance on immigration. So it's a bit of a cheap easy out to call us nutters. For one thing, I just don't believe Ryan when he talks about any bill including stipulations that illegals must return home and get to "the back of the line."

Who is going to make them leave? They already have to leave and they haven't. So when Ryan on the one hand appears to reject the McCain bill, he goes on to adopt the similar Newspeak that Republicans used in selling that bill in 2007. The point is, there does not need to be a new law dealing with illegals already in this country. All that needs to be done is to enforce existing law. I just went for a second time to the Immigration page at Ryan's website- nowhere on that page will you find the words "deport" "remove" or "repatriate". I even tried searching "kick the hell out". But nada. You will find however that the very first sentence on the page is:

The vast majority of Americans agree that our immigration system is broken.

Keep searching and you find:

-it is clear that our immigration system is not working.
-it is important that we work toward improving our immigration system
-we must...move toward an orderly, efficient and fair immigration system.

And this is the kicker:

-I believe it would be a serious mistake to pursue piecemeal reforms like the DREAM Act without first putting in place these fundamental components of immigration reform.

So he supports the Orwellian-named DREAM Act. i.e. Amnesty. And he announces it with the same language I was pointing to upthread, by at first seeming to oppose it, but then admitting support with stipulations. He uses the phrase "our immigration system is broken". This is used by every Open Borders advocate and it's repeated ad nauseum and it's brainless, stupid and false. Our "system" is not broken- it's our laws simply not being enforced. And he's trying to rewrite history by it, as the message clearly sent in 2007, was ENFORCE EXISTING LAW.  We don't need a new fucking law. Anyone that begins this discussion on the premise that we do is full of shit, and they are going to lie to get what they want and not deliver on promises made once they get it. And anyone who supports the DREAM Act will go on to support full Amnesty- they're just not ready to come out and say it.

I already pointed out how politicians will lie on this issue with McCain's 2008 flip flop, which had to be the grossest lie in American political history before the Obama White House. So it's ridiculous for you to rely on his words and ignore the context.
 
And again, who in their right mind would talk of speeding up legal immigration before we've even resoled the issue of millions of illegals here already with more coming by the day. We don't need new immigration- we're full up. He might couch his intentions a little better than Lindsay Graham, but on illegal immigration he's as full of shit as the rest. He's telling us that he'll go for McCain II. You don't want to see it. We're not going to accept it.

149

"We have a responsibility to speak boldly for those whose voices are denied by the jackbooted thugs of the tired tyrants of Syria and Iran. " ... and Saudi Arabia and Algeria and Ecuador and Kuwait and BAHRAIN and Venezuela and Angola and Kuwait and Libya and Nigeria and UAE and Qatar and BAHRAIN (Twice because that stuff is just wrong!). And a dozen other rotten apple countries that need to be stomped into mush. Speaking just isn't going to get anything changed!

150 If Ryan is opposed to rounding up illegals, shoving them into Cattle Cars and taking 'em to Tiajuana then he's a RINO!  That's right...I said it!!!!

151 I used to be pro-immigration myself. Over my lifetime I've volunteered countless hours helping illegal immigrants, and given lots of monetary contributions to organizations that assist illegal immigrants.

My thinking on this issue has changed. So I have no trouble believing that Paul Ryan's has, too.

The immigrant population has changed, and the realities at the border and beyond have changed immensely in the last few years. Some of the changes I have seen that have changed my thinking on this issue:

* We now get many more violent criminals than we used to;
* MS-13 and other murderous gangs have gotten HUGE in this country;
* We're getting many more immigrants who have zero interest in assimilating into our culture, and many who are outright hostile and defiant toward us
* The drug cartels have destroyed Mexico and are overrunning the border, threatening to eventually destroy us as well. The tortures, mutilations, beheadings, satanic rituals, cannibalism, mass graves are getting more and more widespread, and more and more gruesome.
* Hezbollah and other Muslim terrorist groups are increasingly entangled with the drug cartels (many analysts blame the rise in beheadings on the increasingly close involvements between Hezbollah, al-Qaeda and the drug cartels)

Back in the days when I aided and abetted illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America, most of the people coming here just wanted to find a job and provide for their families. While that's probably still the main reason people come here, the sad fact is that there is now a huge criminal element coming in that is making much of the American Southwest a living hell, and is also wrecking many cities all over the United States.

An intelligent person doesn't stick to certain opinions all their life just for the sake of sticking to them; instead, he or she adjusts his or her thinking when they get new data.

152 Just to be clear on this, as I just read thru the whole thread, and multiple commenters have asserted that Paul Ryan opposes the DREAM Act-

Paul Ryan does indeed support the DREAM Act. Here is the relevant quote from his website:

-I believe it would be a serious mistake to pursue piecemeal reforms like the DREAM Act without first putting in place these fundamental components of immigration reform.

He is saying very clearly that he would support the DREAM Act as part of a broader immigration bill i.e. Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

What this means is that Ryan is setting up a Border Security/Amnesty swap. And what this means for us is that we pass Amnesty- and you can go get fucked on Border Security. If they had any intention of sealing that border, it would have been done already. Border Security has such solid bi-partisan appeal, that there is no need to even think of tying the Border to Amnesty. If they haven't done it yet- they won't. They're just using the promise to secure Amnesty.

It's like talking about crafting a finance Bill that includes provisions for allowing banks to hire security guards in exchange for caps on refinancing rates. But hiring security guards has nothing to do with refinancing rates. You just hire guards to secure the fucking bank. Likewise, securing the Border should not hinge upon anything else. You just do it. If you want to craft laws that deal with changing the immigration process, or establishing new types of visas then you do it separately.

If you go to Ryan's Immigration page, what you see is the case for a comprehensive Bill, not a call for immediately sealing the border or any mention of the need for repatriating those illegals already here. He states that he does not believe an Amnesty is the right thing to do, but he does not say unequivocally that he rejects it. AND YES, HE SUPPORTS THE DREAM ACT.

153  Look at the dickless idiot comment #169. If we elect a proAmnesty Repubican we can expect just this kind of demagoguery on this- until they beat us into submission. If you don't support their fucking insane legislation, you're a Nazi. Only this time it won't be Democrats calling us vile racists, it will be the very Republicans we hand historic victories to. The next time someone says "anybodybutObama", just remember that.

"We're gonna get the bigots to shut up!"(raging applause) Remember Lindsy Graham saying that? If you vote to empower them on this, then just admit that you like it.

154 Hmm - been a long time since I commented here at the cool kids site. Just a quick observation and I'll go back to my backwoods cabin. Some idiot gushed/called Ryan the second coming of Lincoln? What, you can't wait to trash the rest of your civil liberties? See, first we get the second coming of FDR - then we counterbalance with SCO Lincoln, they respond with SCO Wilson and we - oops game over.
Second - what kind of tool speaks at an Alexander Hamilton Society meeting, let alone start such an abomination. AH veneration is a quite a tell in my book. No thanks - eat shit.

155

Sartana, why don't you go peddle your bullshit somewhere else?  No one except POP takes you seriously. 

And that's not exactly a good thing.

156 Jesus rhodey, put the friggin crack pipe down dude.  You're barely coherent.

157 Sorry - pain meds. No excuse for the intemperance, again - apologies. Not a fan of Hamilton, or modern incarnations (bank owners/apologists). Wish more Republicans knew what really smart commentary looked like.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/57106068/Hmmm-Jun-04-2011

158

Jonah "Kimmel" Goldberg is your cred account?

Ryan is great, but turning one's attention from the balance sheet to domestic policy let alone foreign issues takes years.   I agree he is motivated.  The Manchurian has put fire in his belly.

But no freaking way he hold's his own in the debates once it leaves budget issues and entitlements.  Pfffft.

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