1

I'm good with it. About time someone got some balls.

2 More than one trillion was spent last month .

3

• Tax reform: This budget would focus on growth by reforming the nation's outdated tax code, consolidating brackets, lowering tax rates, and assuming top individual and corporate rates of 25%. It maintains a revenue-neutral approach by clearing out a burdensome tangle of deductions and loopholes that distort economic activity and leave some corporations paying no income taxes at all.

Me likey.  The US has the highest corporate tax rate in the entire industrial West and reducing the individual income tax rate to 25% is definately Reaganseque. 

4

It's got everything.

Except Social Security reform.

I don't know if anyone, D or R, would have the balls to take on SS. I think it's more likely that it'll collapse before anyone is willing to take the suicidal hit and do something about it.

That said, go Paul Ryan! The Ds will hate every bit of this plan so he must be doing it right.

5 right, and it's great that Rush is so on-board with it, but... this the "third rail" and all. This will be unpopular.

6 OOOOOOOOOO I love hockey sticks !!!111 1!11!eleventy!!111!!

7 And on tax reform, get ready for more, "BUT WE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR MORE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!!!!1ELEVENTY11!!!"

8 2 More than one trillion was spent last month.

Yes, but you have to start somewhere.  And 440 billion a year in cuts is over ten-fold greater than the 33billion the Dems are trying to pass off as serious cuts. 

9

I am not worried about social security. It fixes itself. If the politicians don't raise the tax or cut the benefits it automatically adjusts to whatever taxes they collect.

So he is right. It will either force someone to fix it or not. If not it does it itself.

10

Politico lists more details [than Ryan's piece] on the 1st pg of this article:

The Republican budget is expected to include several major proposals: reduction of the corporate tax rate to 25 percent; elimination of corporate tax loopholes; spending cuts with enforceable caps; reforms to 'save critical health and retirement programs'; health reform that 'repeals and defunds the president's health care law'; and a promise to restore 'AmericaÂ’s exceptional promise,' according to GOP aides, lawmakers and a draft summary of the budget."   More: "Lawmakers involved with the crafting of the bill describe a deliberate, painstaking process.

'HeÂ’s a worker,' said Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah), a sophomore who sits on RyanÂ’s panel. 'HeÂ’s been the staff; heÂ’s now leading. So heÂ’s a hands-on manager of this. He understands it better than anybody else in the room. So he commands the respect to have the discussion that needs to be had. IÂ’d like to think that each of the members has their fingerprints on it, but Ryan is certainly the leader of the process.'”  

11 I think this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part - and Ryan is our man!

12 I'm on your side Kratos ....... this is a huge hole ..... and they're still digging .

13

This part hasn't been mentioned much:

"As we strengthen and improve welfare programs for those who need them, we eliminate welfare for those who don't. Our budget targets corporate welfare, starting by ending the conservatorship of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that is costing taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars. It gets rid of the permanent Wall Street bailout authority that Congress created last year. And it rolls back expensive handouts for uncompetitive sources of energy, calling instead for a free and open marketplace for energy development, innovation and exploration."

14 OT: Another week-long stop gap of $12B in cuts is being prepared; however, Rep. Dan Lungren has been tasked with preparing shutdown pamphlets.

15 Oh yeah, Miss80sbaby, that's one of things I meant to mention. Getting rid of the permanent Wall Street bailout? Great, politically.

16 I am, as you all know, a prophet of DOOM! I think our political system is too partisan, too driven by short-term concerns, and (frankly) too populist to really address our fundamental problems. It says something really scary about our predicament that Congressman Ryan's proposal is the best, most comprehensive, most doable fiscal program -- and it is still only a fart in the wind in terms of addressing the debt. And that's *if* it had a hope in hell of getting passed, which it doesn't.

Ryan's plan only pays off decades down the road. I don't think we have decades, for reasons I've gone into at length before.  So even *if* it had enough Democratic support to get passed as-is, and even *if*  retirees were willing to take huge cuts to Medicare/Medicaid, and even *if* the various state-level disasters don't end up on the federal government ledger, and even *if* our borrowing environment stays at or near zero for the ten or fifteen years we need it to to avoid debt-service eating up every dime we have that isn't already earmarked for entitlement spending...even if all those unlikely things come to pass, we still don't have an end-game until 2050. 

In other words, our very best and most politically possible plan has almost no chance at all of succeeding unless a whole bunch of very unlikely events break just the way we need them to.

All that being said, I advocate Ryan's plan wholeheartedly. At least he's trying to dig us out of this shit-heap. And even a very minuscule chance is better than no chance at all, I guess.

17 Typical political bullshit. Any one can promise any thing in a 10 year plan. We've been hearing that crap for decades. What are you going to cut now is what matters.

18 Since the other Ryan thread has died, let me re-post my take on Ryan's Medicare proposals here.

Medicare is not expensive because it is a single payer system.  Ryan's idea is a recipe for disaster.

Where is your data saying it would produce "better results"?

Currently, Medicare pays out, on average, about $11,000 per person.  Hence that nice $11,000 voucher figure.  But that is nowhere near how those dollars are really apportioned.

65 yr olds in good health can, and do, draw benefits of.. wait for it.. ZERO DOLLARS!  Actually, since they are paying premiums, they are negative into the system.  Sickly Medicare recipients receive the benefits.  And these are mostly paid out in the recipient's final year of life.

It's a risk pool.  Read up on that subject why don't you all.  Some get more than others.

An $11,000 voucher to a healthy 65 yr old does one thing and one thing only... pads the bottom line of a private insurer.

And, allotting only $11,000 (or even $15-$20000 on some new scale) for insurance puts the person at end-of-life scrabbling for care because a private insurer will never provide what Medicare does at that stage.

I respect Ryan, usually.  But just because it is Ryan proposing this, don't throw reason out the window.  Be a little skeptical, ok?

19 I'm rather pleased considering Ryan had to beg for months just to get entitlement reform in the budget. The leadership still commanded him to tread lightly and cuts to go back to '06 didn't get conference approval, but this is far, far more than I expected the leadership would allow. Too bad little will come of it until 2013.

20 All I'm looking at is the chart, and I'd vote for it. Don't know anything about the contents, don't care. I'm man enough to handle whatever it is they say they're cutting. I can live without it.

Oh, and when I say I'm man enough to handle it, I'm a 5'2" woman, terrified of insects.

Let's Roll!!!!!

21

Veronique de Rugy on Ryan-Rivlin

http://tinyurl.com/3qcuczt

^ The plan he's offering is modified Ryan-Rivlin.

22 65 yr olds in good health

The problem is that hale and healthy 65-year-olds are a relatively small part of the Medicare demographic. And "healthy" means different things to different people: lots of studies have shown that elderly people overuse medical care because it "doesn't cost anything". Even for minor ailments, Medicare beneficiaries will use every ohm and erg of their entitlement right from the start -- you can read up on the usage statistics if you don't believe me. Or just ask an administrator or billing supervisor at any hospital, public or private -- they'll tell you the same.

You have a lot of chronic-care issues in the over-65 set as well. Type II diabetes is a big one, as is sequelae like glaucoma and circulatory disorders. Dialysis is a money-sink for Medicare, even given the lousy service they cause. Dubya's prescription-drug benefit is yet another black hole into which money is relentlessly drawn. There is unbelievable waste and fraud, yes, but the main problem with Medicare (and Medicaid) is that too many people use it too often. You shouldn't be going to the doctor every time your lumbago acts up, or your hands hurt from arthritis...but old people do it all the time because it's "free", or nearly so (to them, anyway).

Modern technology has given us things like coronary angiography, artificial heart valves, stents, dialysis, artificial joints, eye surgery, etc. In short, medical technology has found all kinds of ways to extend and improve the lifespan -- but at a huge cost. We've been hiding the true costs of medical care from people for years; not just the elderly, but everybody. The best way to get costs under control is a vouchering system that has the recipient of a service (you) see the actual bill. I bet if people saw it on paper in dollars and sense, they'd ration their healthcare dollars more wisely.

23 I heard there is a bill being offered that would allow people to see how much is spent.

24 What I would like to see is an SERIOUS effort to recover the billions of dollars that have been skimmed out of the system. (Fannie/Freddie; USDA, DoD, etc..) in addition to Medicare/Medicaid fraud, Welfare fraud, and on and on.  I want assets seized where ever they may happen to be (you hearin' me politicians), I want the family and associates assets seized as well.  I want these assholes, their families, friends and associates buck ass naked in the street with NOTHING! 

25 I say we murder our way out of this problem.

26

The strangest thing to me, though, is that Chairman Ryan admitted to Greta that we only have a few years left to fix this, yet he has to pretend like this is all going to happen. He admitted to Jonathan Allen (I believe) that this was not going to pass, considering the Dems' current inaction. So he has an uphill battle on selling this to the public and the Dems while knowing it isn't enough.

27 >>>65 yr olds in good health can, and do, draw benefits of.. wait for it.. ZERO DOLLARS! Actually, since they are paying premiums, they are negative into the system. Sickly Medicare recipients receive the benefits. And these are mostly paid out in the recipient's final year of life. No, the voucher amount is keyed to age and health history. A healthy 65 year old would get a smaller amount. As he gets older or shows more sickness, he'll be given more. $11,000 is either the average or the top figure for the voucher -- not sure yet. But it is scaled to age/sickness.

28 The best way to get costs under control is a vouchering system that has the recipient of a service (you) see the actual bill. I bet if people saw it on paper in dollars and sense, they'd ration their healthcare dollars more wisely.

This. I wish people would view health insurance more like car (or, really, any other) insurance. It's there if you need it, but you don't really want to have to use it.

Of course if something is "free" or close to it, people will abuse the hell out of it. It's too bad those making policy won't accept that as truth, or even worse, encourage it.

29 Paul Ryan is wonderful. He's brilliant.

The media and the Obama-scum therefore have to destroy him.

30 Seems to me there was a budget deal in the 1980s or 1990s called Graham-Rudman. This deal was supposed to balance the budget of the United States by 2000 or thereabouts. Seems like the Democrats violated that law starting in 2007 and are continuing to violate it today. Now if a private individual violated this law, that person would be sitting in super max for the rest of his/her life.

31

"I don't know if that will work out the way he's thinking -- "comprehensive" bills are usually not stronger due to being comprehensive, but rather offer opponents the opportunity to pick among a menu of options for attacks, and then focus relentlessly on one or two things, bringing it all down.''

Well, considering our current President is focusing relentlessly on one or two things (and it doesn't include his healthcare plan) and most people recognize that the economy is already doing the double dip recession thingy....I'm hoping common sense prevails........

 

 

32 Allah Wrote : "How long do you suppose the tenor of the conversation will stay “adult”? Over/under is 36 hours."

I think he's dreaming. I expect demagoguery starting in the morning, or around lunchtime in the case of Obama (he's needs his beauty sleep).

33 I would have liked a little more a little sooner (we're going to have to address Social Security at some point), but with $4.4 trillion and defunding Obamacare...this is a serious proposal and we're going to be in the fight of our lives handling just those two.  This'll do.

34

Ryan's idea with Medicare and other entitlements has always been that it should be targeted to the people who actually need it. Problem is that such a plan will never be phased-in that quickly-- the leadership wants to tread softly and so do the others who are primarily interested in retaining their seats. So we have maybe 20-40 lawmakers who are now more serious about entitlements but even they can't agree about how far to go and how fast.

35 Eh, even Chairman Ryan would have a difficult time severely slashing entitlements as needed.

36 At Verum Serum they have the democrats demagoguing in advance.

37 " Eh, even Chairman Ryan would have a difficult time severely slashing entitlements as needed."

True, but imagine if the GOP largely won on this budget of his, and it turned out that the economy rebounded as a result, with low unemployment and a higher tax base and all sorts of other great outcomes. 

That would pave the way to entitlement reform.  The doom and gloom democrats will have a much harder time, once their doom and gloom on a sustainable budget was wrong.  In fact, fiscal conservatism would be something more democrats pretended to believe in.

It really is a shame that gutting entitlements right now is politically impossible.  The numbers show we're in deep trouble if we don't.  I'd hope we lived in a patriotic enough country that people would demand this reform.

But instead, we have to hope that Ryan can win this battle in order to win the next one.

38 6 OOOOOOOOOO I love hockey sticks !!!111 1!11!eleventy!!111!!

Posted by: M. Mann at April 04, 2011 09:47 PM (08Pe

Next thread, dude.

39 Cajones.  It's what's for dinner.

Ryan is the shit.  He is really trying to make something strong that works.  Ryan works.  He works his hiney off on this stuff.  Is it perfect? No, of course not.  But it's real, roll up your sleeves, bite the bullet WORK on doing something about the problem that isn't going away.

That's what we need in 2012.

40

But outside of some fellow RSC members and freshmen, who is going to help Ryan sell this? I know he said he has a plan and Rush was excited about it when he heard it this morning, but the onus for explaining such things cannot always be completely on Ryan*. Just by looking at the number of hit pieces from this morning, the Rs are already in danger of losing the PR battle and they're going to have to be united, serious, dedicated, and relentless just to get the public on their side.

*Since I'm always seeing statements to the effect that he understands all this better so he should be the one always explaining it. Gives some of the others a pass at explaining the more intricate details. The only other individuals who seem to have explained it well thus far are the other budgeteers.

41 Currently, Medicare pays out, on average, about $11,000 per person.  Hence that nice $11,000 voucher figure.  But that is nowhere near how those dollars are really apportioned.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 04, 2011 10:03 PM (Do52

Did you know that Medicare paid for ESRD patients of ALL ages (about 500,000 of them) to the tune of $28 Billion last year? What do you think will happen to the number of dialysis patients going forward: up, or down? I'd love a voucher for $11,000 to pay for private COBRA coverage which would cover my premiums for all of 2011 and beyond. But out of pocket that would take me through about six treatments. Kidney patients need about 100-150 treatments per year, minimum, at a cool $1000 per. If the gov't would step back from ESRD payments and return dialysis payments to the insurance companies, maybe they would push for research and if that kicked in, something different might come to the market. The way things are, we are stuck with dialysis until this idiot law is repealed.

42

When somebody says, "This will cut X amount out of the budget over 10 years", why should anybody believe it?

If you're going to take Vienna, take Vienna. If you are going to cut the budget, cut the budget.

We have a $1.6 trillion deficit right now. That clearly won't do. What are you going to cut right now? Give them a 10 year window, and after much ordeal they'll get down to a reduced target for 10 years out. And, next year it will be a $1.8 trillion deficit and we're back to square one.

Remember Obama's 2010 State of the Union? We were going to "freeze" the budget, lock things in, get serious about runaway spending. Just the freeze alone was going to save us trillions over the next 10 years. Then look at this year's budget proposal. What a farce.

You wanna be a cutter? Then cut, damn you!

 

43 Ryan's the best thing we've got.  And he's pretty good.  The rest of these crapweasels, on both sides of the aisle, had better get on board and get 'er done.

44 Posted by: ExExZonie
--------
The proposal, as I understand it, is a voucher to go out and buy insurance on the open market.  How many insurance companies do you think are gonna line up to take end stage kidney disease patients?  Patients needing a transplant in the next few years?  Advanced diabetes patients?

Any takers?

Who is gonna be the one to tell their grandma to just go away and die, but please do it quietly?

The problem with vouchers for private insurance is that some people will be getting more than they need and others will not get enough.  And you will still end up spending the same amount you are spending now, but contributing billions in profits to private insurers.  I have nothing against private insurance..  it makes sense for all but the elderly.

But, by doing so, you are accomplishing the one thing no one is willing to do.  You are foisting the hard decisions off to a private insurer.

The real answer is not to pay for the most expensive stuff - i.e. extraordinary end of life care.  One quarter to one third of all Medicare payments go to people in their last year of life.  Allow home hospice care - it is something many Medicare patients long for.. to simply die in their homes, but is often denied.

Hire bounty hunters who would take 10% of every dollar in fraud they turn in.  It is estimated we lose $65 Billion per year to Medicare fraud.

Yes, Monty.  People overuse Medicare.  Easily solvable by increasing co-payments.  Or charge co-payments for over x number of visits in a specific time period. Charge very high co-payments to visit an emergency room for non-emergency ailments.  Done. Solved.  When people, even the elderly, are involved in the price of their care, they do watch the usage more closely.

Ryan is wrong on this one.  But that is besides the point.  A proposal such as this is political suicide.  It screams "the GOP are heartless bastards!".  And in the end, doesn't save us a dime anyway.  Medicare needs reforms, yes.  Common sense reforms will make it much less of a drain on the budget.. the sooner the better.

45

If the GOP wants to beat the Dems every single effing election for the next 20 years, they should be pushing these 2 pieces of legislation:

First, no more tax withholding, everybody has to get out their checkbooks and pay their taxes from their gross pay, including Social Security "contributions.".

Second, make that tax payment day the day before the general election.

Veto proof majorities every time.

 

 

 

46 Log Cabin...this is one of the best ideas ever. Isn't it funny that the election is 6 months away from tax day.

47 You are arguing about how to paint a burning building. Collapse is inevitable. Next time: no socialism.

48 Pardon me if I am wrong but does it not indicate that they are not cutting ANYTHING in 2012?

49 I simply do not trust these stories of "we are going to cut the budget next year".

50

Thanks team Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Schumer - in less than 4 short years you've managed to flush our entire nation's economic prosperity and our nationÂ’s future down the toilet.

Nice going.

 

51

I should say with much help from Paul Krugman. Our Keynesian depression is all thanks to the puppeteering and manipulation of one PAUL KRUGMAN (D)isaster and joke)

52 That graphics above needs to have one thing changed on it and then spread around the internet:

1: Change "Status Quo" to "Obama's Path of Change". Or Obama's Plan to Lose The Future.

Make him continue to own it

53

Good start. Americans will understand this. And as many have said, Ponzi schemes like SS always end up taking take of themselves. It sucks that a lot of losers will be involved though.

54

I also think it's interesting that Boehner has requested this new CR that includes cutting certain abortion programs* yet he's also directed Rep. Lungren to ready and distribute shutdown pamphlets. That indicates to me that he's covering all his bases because McCarthy might not be able to get enough RSC votes for this.

_{*Not Planned Parenthood}

55 Wrong thread.

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