1 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

2 So I was born in Alabama

3 This is why I can get away with jamming vagina vaccines in your kids.

4 Miles and miles of Alabama full of bitter clingers whose votes may count after all.

5 OT but the dead are voting absentee in the NY-9 Weiner seat battle--Turner asks for impoundment of ballots.  Link to WashTimes article on name (don't know tiny URL thingy yet)

6 in my mind it's a better reflection of the will of the voters

7 The nice thing about this proposal is that it takes away one of the main reasons that supporters give for that stupid anti-Constitutional plan to force electors to vote for the so-called popular vote winner even if the state itself goes for the other candidate. Let's propose the same be done in Californica...

8 Let's propose the same be done in Californica...

Not gonna happen in any D-controlled state.  How often does someone sign off on their own death warrant.  Well, aside from Obamacare. 

9 It's called the Alabama T

10 I'd like to see the whole country count the electoral college this way. Seems more ... democratic!

11 meh, hating the rules because you lost is so DNC.

12 And that makes me a bittuh clinguh, bubba.

13 If it's a 12-8 split then it's functionally only a 4 EV state.  Which means they'll get as much attention as other 4 EV states like Hawaii, Idaho & Maine.  Less in fact, since media buys in PA will still cost a ton.  The GOP likes it because - as Allah said - it probably won't be a reliably red state anytime soon, but it makes the state less powerful. 

14 I'm pretty much for this idea, in every single state.

15

Obama won't carry more than 9 electoral votes in this situation, Ace.

11 of the districts are R or R leaning and will go to the Republican.

Only 5 are hard Democratic- PA14, PA1, PA2, PA 13, PA 17. PA 4 is slightly so, so maybe he snags that one as well. PA-7 would be pushing it given the current political climate there.

That plus the 2 for statewide win, and he gets between 7-8, but lucky if he even hits 9. Thats of course if there is tremendous fraud in Philly and he carries the state, which at this point I don't think he does.

If this goes into effect for 2012 (doubtful), add 10 EV's to the Republicans instantly, with another 2-3 fairly likely to go R as well.

16 Bus those black panthers with their nightsticks and their swagger into someplace like Lock Haven or Haselton, and let's see what happens.

17

unfortunately it'll never happen. Our Republicans are spineless. In the past few decades we've given the world Rick Santorum and Arlen Specter.  Just think about that. Those were our best options to run for senate in our state. That means they were the best republicans we could find.

The only exception is Pat Toomey, and it's taken him a long time and a wave election to just barely sqeek out a win.

We're a shit state let's face it. We've got awesome football and hockey teams, but politically we suck ball bit time.

18 Also it looks like PA 4 and PA 12 are going to be merged as we are losing a district. Both are slightly east of Pittsburgh

19

#18

PA-12 is Republican leaning during Presidential races, PA-4 a swing.

So basically any Democrat is stuck with 5 districts and (again assuming overwhelming fraud wins the state) the 2 STATEWIDE-TO-THE-VICTOR EV's, just 7. They would have to fight tooth and nail for new district 4 and PA7. Nothing else is really viable for them.

20 Hey Ben, don't forget the cheesesteaks!  You got that going too!

21 Actually, I don't think it will happen but I like this.  This is the antidote to the dumb popular vote movement in which they want one graveyard in Chicago to decide the presidential election.

I think a lot of liberals are initially thinking, "This is a great idea," but they tend to get in line pretty fast when their bosses crack the whip.

22

Cheer up, Ben.

You've also got that Billy Joel song about Allentown.

23 Think of what something like this would mean for states like California.

24 The only people who think that this is a good idea are probably also those that think Al Gore should been President to deal with 9-11 & would have done a better job.


[Al Gore is the latest to win the popular vote (assuming that there was no democratic voter fraud) but lose the electoral college count]

25

PA-12 is Republican leaning during Presidential races, PA-4 a swing.

I live in PA-4. We've been getting  more and more D as people move out of Pittsburgh because of high taxes and continue their dumbshit voting trends here

PA-12 is so republican leaning that they've elected a D Rep for my entire life.

PA-4 and PA-12 may vote Republican in Presidential races most of the time, but they're not R leaning on a local level.

26

Hey Ben, don't forget the cheesesteaks!  You got that going too!

Yeah and we put fries on our sandwiches. How retarded it that? I mean I know it's a big deal and I'm supposed to have pride in it, but I love fries. I like eating them one by one. Why in the fuck would I want to jam them all onto my sandwich and lose the pleasure of eating them one at a time?

27 some times... when I get weepy... I think about forced vaccinations and
Pennsylvania
and  a smile comes to my face and my weepy eyes

28 ... my weepy eyes dry up...

29

PA-4 and PA-12 may vote Republican in Presidential races most of the time, but they're not R leaning on a local level.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 08:12 PM (tEGzl)

Since this only affects Presidential races, thats why I broke it down that way. I am well aware PA-4 and PA-12 voters are exposed to Gardisil vaccines when they touch the "congressional" part of the ballot.

30 I am telling ya PA is going red in 12 even if this isn't changed. I know I'm hopelessly positive but '10 showed what was possible and we will surpass what we did last go round Ace called the tipping point and there is IMO a media caused Bradley effect in polling on obamas likeability. It won't save him One and done

31

Since this only affects Presidential races, thats why I broke it down that way. I am well aware PA-4 and PA-12 voters are exposed to Gardisil vaccines when they touch the "congressional" part of the ballot.

heh. I just reread you post and I noticed that.

It's tough to explain. It's just the Democrat is bred into people here when it comes to local politics. I guess part of it is that our Democrats are more socially conservative than National Republicans, but on economic issues they're gardisil tards like every other democrat.

 

32

 am telling ya PA is going red in 12 even if this isn't changed. I know I'm hopelessly positive but '10 showed what was possible and we will surpass what we did last go round

Ace called the tipping point and there is IMO a media caused Bradley effect in polling on obamas likeability. It won't save him

One and done

PA is never going red again for one reason. Filthadelphia.  Everyone other area can go red but if Philly has big turnout, then it doesn't matter.

Also they're freaking awesome at cheating. They would give Chicago a run for it's money on cheating. Pittsburgh is kinda that way too.

33 Ben, we also have the best team in baseball, but if you're in Western PA, I can understand why you might forget that....

34

Ben, we also have the best team in baseball, but if you're in Western PA, I can understand why you might forget that....

baseball, what is this baseball you speak of?

35 Politicians shouldnt tinker with election laws like that. I dont like gerrymandering and that looks like gerrymandering gone wild.

36

Isn't that a very, very serious problem for Barack Obama?

Yes, and it's because he would no longer get the individual EVs from districts that he did not win.  A 12-8 split turns PA's 20 EVs into 2 smaller states, one of which JEF did not win.  Where does JEF make up the deficit? He can't print EVs.

Giving the district EV to the winner in that district minimizes the possibility of winning 51% by 2 points, losing 49% by 15 points, and still getting all ... it's still there, but very hard to do.

 

37 I just had my first real orgasm!

38 Wow. Haven't heard much about this locally (maybe because I avoid the local lefty media like the plague) but I can only imagine what the Dem state reps are going to say about this. I can see the marches in front of City Hall now....

39 ace, would you favor this approach in texas, florida, south carolina, as well?

40 I think it would work pretty well everywhere as the GOP tends not to have the big population cities, but overwhelmingly the rural areas... so wouldn't it follow more splits favoring conservatives?

I know.. the districts are based on population.... I think I saw an article laying all this out a few years back showing how a 'by district" layout would work...hmmm

41 Ace, the area of PA between Pittsburgh & Philly is referred to as Pennsyltucky by us locals.

42 I live in *ahem* Illinois and am a native of *cough* NY, and rural folks have been asking for this since, well, forever. I'm in.

43

If this happens, it doesn't matter if Obama "wins" the state outright since he will lose over half the electoral votes anyway.

2 "OVERALL WINNER" votes.

Pitt, Philly 1 Philly 2 Philly Burb 1(cd13) PA-17, possibly Philly Burb 2 (cd7).

8 out of 12, including "the 2 state wide winner" points. Thats with philly fraud churning and churning.

If we pull it off and beat him to carry the total state pop vote, we will lose roughly the same 5-6 congressional district EVs and carry the other 14.

win-win

44 From Allah's comments: The nationwide district-by-district results from the last 3 Presidential elections.

Now, that list doesn't break down by EV's. A commenter added it up manually and figured that Obama still would have won by a 301-237 EV margin.

But it would have spared us the bullshit in 2000..Bush would have had 297 EVs. 

45 Ooops. The real results link

46 "I'd like to see the whole country count the electoral college this way. Seems more ... democratic!" This. Or just get rid of the EC altogether.

47

Could be that the dems are afraid that PA will go republican in 2012 and they are trying to eke out whatever EVs they can get.

 

48

"And now you see the brilliance of Obama's proposed seven bonus states, huh?"

WHOA There Boy!

Does this then mean that the many fictional congessional districts that Obama claimed had jobs saved or created now each have an electoral vote for Obama in 2012?????

49 This is a good "dead voter" mitigation move.  How many zombies from Philly need to show up now?  Do you do a full court press to grab the 2 extra EVs?  And what type of trap would zombie voters run?

50 One more vote for "Pennsyltucky." I got a cousin from just outside of Reading (PA, duh), and that's what she told me.

51 From Montco to StateCollege to Reading, it's Pennsyltucky.

52 They stole my idea.

53 I work in downtown Pittsburgh, but I prefer to refer to the area I live in as Pennsyltucky. This would be great for us gun-humpin PA'ers that can't overcome the incredibly liberal urban centers. I don't see it every happening, but what the hell, our repub governor is a bit of a hardass and people are certainly riled up, I don't see any better time to give it a shot.

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55

This is on my list for a US Constitutional Amendment - doing it for all states, that is. That, and getting rid of the actual electors, who literally have the power to vote however the hell they want (even though they rarely do). I think I had a couple more electoral college items, but I forget, offhand.

Oh, and you might want to note that PA has been officially a Red State since the 2010 election. Majority in the House, Repub Gov, Repub state legislature. Only the Senate is even.

56 For the next 3 Presidential elections, this would be great for us, because Republicans controlled most of the Redistricting this time around.

But I wouldn't want to bet on this as a long term situation.

We're going to beat Obama anyway.  Let's not hurt ourselves long term to get a short term win we're already going to get.

57 I grew up outside of Pittsburgh, but moved to Centre County in adulthood.  I've always called the T "Alabama in between".

And I hate Corbett's idea.  It feels like cowardice, like the state party giving up, going turtle, locking in a loser's moiety.

58 Republican legislators seem quite “confused” about the merits of the congressional district method. In Nebraska, Republican legislators are now saying they must change from the congressional district method to go back to state winner-take-all, while in Pennsylvania, Republican legislators are just as strongly arguing that they must change from the winner-take-all method to the congressional district method. Dividing Pennsylvania’s electoral votes by congressional district would magnify the worst features of the Electoral College system and not reflect the diversity of Pennsylvania. The district approach would provide less incentive for presidential candidates to campaign in all Pennsylvania districts and would not focus the candidates’ attention to issues of concern to the state as a whole. Candidates would have no reason to campaign in districts where they are comfortably ahead or hopelessly behind. Due to gerrymandering, in 2008, only 4 Pennsylvania congressional districts were competitive. In Maine, where they award electoral votes by congressional district, the closely divided 2nd congressional district received campaign events in 2008 (whereas Maine’s 1st reliably Democratic district was ignored). In Nebraska, which also uses the district method, the 2008 presidential campaigns did not pay the slightest attention to the people of Nebraska’s reliably Republican 1st and 3rd congressional districts because it was a foregone conclusion that McCain would win the most popular votes in both of those districts. The issues relevant to voters of the 2nd district (the Omaha area) mattered, while the (very different) issues relevant to the remaining (mostly rural) two-thirds of the state were irrelevant. When votes matter, presidential candidates vigorously solicit those voters. When votes don’t matter, they ignore those areas. Nationwide, there are only 55 “battleground” districts that are competitive in presidential elections. Seven-eighths of the nation’s congressional districts would be ignored if a district-level winner-take-all system were used nationally. If the district approach were used nationally, it would be less fair and less accurately reflect the will of the people than the current system. In 2004, Bush won 50.7% of the popular vote, but 59% of the districts. Although Bush lost the national popular vote in 2000, he won 55% of the country’s congressional districts. Because there are generally more close votes on district levels than states as whole, district elections increase the opportunity for error. The larger the voting base, the less opportunity there is for an especially close vote. Also, a second-place candidate could still win the White House without winning the national popular vote. A national popular vote is the way to make every person’s vote equal and guarantee that the candidate who gets the most votes in all 50 states becomes President.

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