1 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

2 Watergate didn't have a body count.

3
Fast?  Yes, yes it was.

Furious?  Oh yes I am.

4 It was bungling like the Reichstag fire was bungling.

5

Has anyone heard an official explanation from the DOJ of the goal of FnF?

Has anyone in the media asked about the goal?

6

Finally?  Finally.

Rick Perry. 

Decisive.  Bold. 

Get one at a McDonald's near you.

7 It's clearly bungling -- Holder himself has basically said so -- and making a case for anything more nefarious is hard, so this is the right avenue of attack.

8 People following the story closely probably won't be happy that he called it "bungling," as many people seem convinced that there was some kind of They Meant This To Happen plot.

Honestly, I don't mind a candidate for President "soft-selling" this.  There are more people in the electorate like you, Ace, who don't believe that F&F was designed to fail than people like me who believe the entire point was to limit my 2nd Amendment rights (and that, while not planned, they were willing to except "cracking some eggs" like the murder of Agent Terry).

Given that (more of you than me), it makes sense for a Presidential Candidate to say "bungling" instead of "criminal conspiracy."

9 If only this new, aggressive Rick Perry had shown up two months ago he'd probably be cruising to the nomination now.

10

Perry must be reading PalinÂ’s facebook page for clues on what to talk about.

11 Bungling is okay. Every good trial lawyer knows to undersell his case to the jury. Overselling has a way of biting you in the ass.

12

Perry must be reading PalinÂ’s facebook page for clues on what to talk about.

Ouch.  That's gonna leave a mark.

13 Just got my call from Rick Perry's strikeforce team. Anyone else going to IA in Jan?

14 People following the story closely probably won't be happy that he called it "bungling,

I'm unhappy with the term bungling because it's not a severe enough term. A bungling is when your order accidentally gets put on the wrong budget, or some other irritating thing that pales in comparison.  This was a weapons grade fuck up at the very least.

15 Oh Christ, War is here. No snarking from you on my last comment, Mister

16 Bungling works for me.  It draws attention to the major fuck up Fast and Furious was without using inflammatory, distracting language.

17 If only this new, aggressive Rick Perry had shown up two months ago he'd probably be cruising to the nomination now.

He's still got time, War.  Don't fret- I suspect you'll have more time to hate on Rick Perry in the coming months.

For all the "not Romney's" out there, he's the only one I see for whom the damage is both a) self-inflicted {which is sometimes less bad than when it's dealt by an opponent} and b) relatively minor (I've heard lots of people- and not exactly on the band-wagon- concede that debating isn't really going to be part of the President's job).

If he can survive through January (and, honestly, I suspect just through December) I suspect it'll be a Romney/Perry race, and I give Perry at least a 48% chance of winning that one.

18 Going to Iowa? In January? I was thinking more along the lines of Jamaica.

19 I was thinking more along the lines of Jamaica.

You can't caucus from Jamaica.

Though you may be able couscous, and that might be close enough, for some.

20 Iowa in January doesn't sound good for me.

Let me know when Perry needs boots on the ground in Hawaii. 

21

Though you may be able couscous, and that might be close enough, for some.

Nope.  Jamiaca is out.

You can only couscous from Algeria.

22 The Japs bungled Pearl Harbor.

23 (But bear in mind the Prosecutor's Rule: It's not about what I believe, it's about what I can prove.) Good enough. Bungling is fine because with or without the gun-grabbing objective, F&F was the mother of all fuck-ups.

24 Ease up a tad Ace, Gingrich still has 2-3 more weeks as front runner.  Then we cheer for Perry as the next (last) not-romney.

25 15 Oh Christ, War is here. No snarking from you on my last comment, Mister

I can send a strikeforce for your team anytime you want.

26

But, still. It can't hurt to have a candidate pushing this, as well as the case against Eric "Pardon Me" Holder.

Right.  Maybe, just maybe, Perry's mention of this will provide a bit more impetus for getting rid of Holder, even if it would be due to Obama seeing Holder more as a liability than an asset. 

27 Rick Perry is not running for Attorney General. (But bear in mind the Prosecutor's Rule: It's not about what I believe, it's about what I can prove.)

28 If it forces the MSM to acknowledge this story, I'll take "bungling". Though I am a Reichstag guy.

29 Iowa in January doesn't sound good for me.

Me neither. But President Perry certain does!

30 This was a weapons grade mishandling well past the point of reckless indifference fuck up at the very least.

I was glad to read some Mexican official said the Extradition word.  I really want to see them just special rendition his ass.  I don't think our system will ever effectively deal with them and even trying is liable to suck all the O₂

31 Yeah, the bungling part was that it was uncovered despite the very best misdirection efforts of the MFM.
The plan itself was outright treason, and to allow for any assumptions that there was anything accidental about guns walking with no active tracing in place favors politics over truth at the worst possible time.

32 28 If it forces the MSM to acknowledge this story, I'll take "bungling". Though I am a Reichstag guy.

Eh, I switch from "felony-stupid" to "felony" on this about as often as Cain amends his public announcements. 

But this always bears repeating - Watergate didn't have a body count.

33 Who put a Newt up Perry's ass? Jeebus, I thought he died a couple of weeks ago.

34 Calling it bungling at this point is probably on a par with anyone who was calling Watergate a "bungled" break-in during the weeks leading up to the '72 election.  To call it anything more would have been a shrill exaggeration.  It's best to let the bungling fester and rot a little longer, so the crooks look more like crooks the longer they try to hide it.  Thankfully for us, this came out more than a year before the election, unlike Watergate, which did nothng to keep Nixon from being reelected.

35
Twatter just told me that Newt just challenged Obama to a leg-wrestling match.

36 The Japs bungled Pearl Harbor. Posted by: WalrusRex at November 18, 2011 03:38 PM (TVvXc) Actually they did. They missed our Carriers

37 Jeebus, I thought he died a couple of weeks ago.

I'm not dead yet.  Actually, I'm feeling much better...

38 He's really panicking and starting to pull out some stops, isn't he.


Go Perry Go!!!

39 Bungling bureaucratic termination...keep ATF off the chopping block. We NEED to constrain available alcohol, tobacco and fire arms.

"ATF: always siding with life". 

40
Newt just challenged Harry Reid to a 15-round boxing match.

41 Let's see if this is confirmed:

Explosive Email in Fast and Furious

42 I'd like too see the House oversight committee keep handing Holder more rope and let this thing drag until, oh, September 2012.

43 >>>Perry must be reading PalinÂ’s facebook page for clues on what to talk about. Probably. God knows only Saint Sarah of Wasilla mentions all the big stories that are on every single rightwing blog.

44
Newt wants to challenge Debbie Wasserman Schultz to a chili cook-off.

45 We approve!

46 Whether or not Perry is the nominee, we really badly need this kind of argument.

Perry needs more funding.  He needs a $20 bill from everyone here if he's to spread this point to the country.

My estimate is that Perry might go down in flames after the left reacts harshly to the truth he's telling, and this will help shield Newt so he can be nominated.  I prefer Perry to Newt, but Newt is OK with me.

Either way, I'm happy to send Perry a small donation again, and I hope those who have been frustrated in their hopes to see the country learn about Fast and Furious support Perry right now.

47 And to reiterate:

Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.
Watergate didn't have a body count.

48 (But bear in mind the Prosecutor's Rule: It's not about what I believe, it's about what I can prove.) Seriously? That was Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men." And he was the defense attorney. What kind of lawyer are you, Ace?

49 It's a good thing this came up instead of that Natalie Wood thread...I mean....geez....we should be all serious about news n shit all the time......pop culture has no business in a milblog....like, fer real.....

50 Posted by: nevergiveup at November 18, 2011 03:46 PM

The missed the ones out at sea returning to port later.

51
Newt just challenged Herman Cain to a soapbox derby race.

52 Perry couldn't start out with stuff like this?  He's got not credibility now. Even Pelosi can make fun of him.

53 >>>Rick Perry is not running for Attorney General. (But bear in mind the Prosecutor's Rule: It's not about what I believe, it's about what I can prove.) You guys don't seem to get that your case is not strengthened by making accusations with insufficient evidence. You seem to think the more out-there the accusation is, the more it moves people TOWARDS your direction. No. The moment someone thinks you're talking like a crank they move away from you and dismiss you.

54 Perry meant to say bung-holing

55 What kind of lawyer are you, Ace?

The kind who's "day job" is running a blog for Morons.

56
Newt just challenged Steny Hoyer to a spelling bee.

57 54 Perry meant to say bung-holing

Posted by: Cherry pi at November 18, 2011 03:50 PM (OhYCU)

This happened in Happy Valley?

58 You guys are reading this all wrong. Northeastern faggotry does not like southerners and guns. So they won't report it or be worried by it. Now if one of our candidates starts unwinding the Solyndras that Sparky personnally oversaw and directed, particularly the part where he bailed out the investors while sticking the libtard business bankruptcy to the little guy, then you will make the NE Faggotry worry. Just sayin. FnF just got some cops killed, and we all know leftards don't like cops.

59

Newt just challenged...

These are cracking me up.

60 I'm thinking it was only happy for certain people in Happy Valley. For others, not so much.

61 I bungled my first 4 marriages.

62

God knows only Saint Sarah of Wasilla mentions all the big stories that are on every single rightwing blog.

Posted by: ace at November 18, 2011 03:47 PM (nj1bB)

 

I wish Sarah could give Perry some advice on what to do when youÂ’re at 7 or 8 percent in the polls, but I donÂ’t think she was ever that low.

 

DonÂ’t worry, the other 92% will come along someday.

63 You seem to think the more out-there the accusation is, the more it moves people TOWARDS your direction.

Did I miss a comment where someone said that Rick Perry should have pushed the Reichstag scenario?  The harshest I've seen is that they didn't think "bungling" was quite harsh enough.

That is: I think we agree with you- this is the smart move, however much we believe F&F was designed from the beginning to pave the way for more gun restrictions.

64

Good for him that's what our candidates need to be doing. Attacking Obama and demoralizing his supporters. Make the press spend their time defending Obama instead of attacking our guys.

When our guys attack each other they are demoralizing the wrong people and giving the press freebies.

65
you probably saw this already but...

Uncle Ubungo was in court again fighting his DUI. He says the cop had no right/reason to stop him in the first place.

66 I really think people need to examine whether they are interested in politics for tangible change, or if they're in it for some kind of soft, self-esteem boosting validation.

67 "Bureaucratic Bungle" rhymes with "Euro-cratic jungle". Racist!

68 I wish Sarah could give Perry some advice on what to do when youÂ’re at 7 or 8 percent in the polls, but I donÂ’t think she was ever that low.

Ouch!  That must hurt. lololol

69 @66 How about both?

70 Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2011 03:54 PM (FcR7P)

What's the over/under on the WaPo using that reasoning to call Rick Perry racist for this comment?

71 jwest, Your insistence on giving credit to Sarah Palin for obvious shit is like complimenting a retarded three year old on tying his shoes. It's pretty obvious you're desperate to credit her with ANYTHING. Pretty condescending. It's almost as if you know she's weak.

72

Perry must be reading PalinÂ’s facebook page for clues on what to talk about.

She's probably sending him emails.

73 If I am elected  I promise to raise police pay to an average of 169k and military pay from on average 96k to 150k or so. We need to enforce law and order that protects the 1 percent. Plus they will do a better job if paid well so F&F will not happen again.

74 I'm in this for the validation.. and the cheerleaders.

75
Newt just tweeted he can name that song in three notes.

76 Your insistence on giving credit to Sarah Palin for obvious shit is like complimenting a retarded three year old on tying his shoes.

Dude, that's one seriously accomplished retarded 3 year old.  Most kids can't tie their own shoes until they're 5 or 6.

77 Wait, why are we talking about Palin?

78 No. The moment someone thinks you're talking like a crank they move away from you and dismiss you.

You should see how fast they move away when they think I'm talking to my crank.

79 Your insistence on giving credit to Sarah Palin Rick Perry for obvious shit is like complimenting a retarded three year old on tying his shoes.

FIFY

80

70 Posted by: t-bird at November 18, 2011 03:54 PM (FcR7P)

What's the over/under on the WaPo using that reasoning to call Rick Perry racist for this comment?

 

Were there any rocks painted with N words on them in FnF? Just askin.

81 Look at the bow I made in my shoelaces.

82

People following the story closely probably won't be happy that he called it "bungling," as many people seem convinced that there was some kind of They Meant This To Happen plot. (But bear in mind the Prosecutor's Rule: It's not about what I believe, it's about what I can prove.)

 

Exactly, Ace.

Bungling? .....I'll take "bungling". It's good to see Perry tackling this one....since the lib-media have been ignoring it.

83 By the way, I would remind the Palin-Heads that your girl, after teasing for years, and taking your $$$, did not enter the race. This was obvious from the moment she quit a real executive position to become a well-paid, little-burdened media gadfly, but you continue to whine to other people when you should be whining to the person who made these decisions. Or is she so weak we don't bother to say she's responsible for her own decisions now, too?

84 First Ace targets me, now Sweet Sarah. I think he is about ready to switch sides like the green fellow.

85 Wait, why are we talking about Palin?

Because jwest is still a member of her cult, apparently.  If she says it, and then someone else says it later, they must have gotten it from her, and not- you know- the news.

86 There is a strong anti-Perry crowd here, and it's clear their frustration is that he's not going away.  I've been saying it for weeks and weeks: Romney or Perry.  Everything else is fluff and nonsense.

87 Pretty condescending. It's almost as if you know she's weak.

Apparently since Rick Perry has talked about getting tougher with Iran, he must have cribbed that off Palin too...seriously Palinestias, obsess much? 

88 >>>Wait, why are we talking about Palin? Because 10% of the "conservative" movement isn't here for the politics, but the Celebrity Worship.

89 When Palin does the obvious shit she says "Fire Eric Holder".

When Perry does the obvious shit, he says "bungled".

90
Newt just tweeted he can hold his breath underwater for 2 minutes and challenges Obama to do the same.

91 Did someone mention longbows?  Because they're for shit compared to having a good blaster at your side.

92 79 Your insistence on giving credit to Sarah Palin Rick Perry for obvious shit is like complimenting a retarded three year old on tying his shoes.

FIFY

Posted by: Cherry pi at November 18, 2011 03:57 PM (OhYCU)

If so, since he is the only only one doing this, what does that say about the other candidates?

93 I really think people need to examine whether they are interested in politics for tangible change, or if they're in it for some kind of soft, self-esteem boosting validation. That's why my policy is "fuck your guy." None of them will ever be good enough, because none of them are me: A. Goddamn. Sexual. Tyrannosaurus. I'm a Jeffertarian. None of them satisy me, not even my guy. After South Carolina, we'll get whatever Northeastern Faggot that Jeff B.'s friends foist upon us and deal with it. Even Reagan wasn't always Reagan.

94 13 Just got my call from Rick Perry's strikeforce team. Anyone else going to IA in Jan?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 18, 2011 03:34 PM (pLTLS)

Already there.

95 Nothing brings the cattiness out in Ace then the mention of Sarah Palin. Meow!

96

Wait, why are we talking about Palin?

 

AHOY!

97 Good to see Ace woke up on THAT side of the bed this morning.

98 @86 Frustration that Perry isn't going away? You really believe that? Most folks think he left long ago and have no idea he's still around.

99 sarah who ... ???

100 I wish Sarah could give Perry some advice on what to do when youÂ’re at 7 or 8 percent in the polls, but I donÂ’t think she was ever that low.

She ran for the Presidential nomination when?

Oh, that's right, she explained she can accomplish more by NOT being the chief executive of the planet's most powerful nation state.

101 Rick Perry, dawg!!

102 I kinda like the bungling bit, just because it takes a hit at competency, which I think independents are likely to believe, and not conspiracy, which is a harder sell.

103 btw, Perry will be with Cavuto on Fox News in about 15 minutes (4:15pm Eastern). 

104 "bureaucratic bungling"


So Obama and Holders stealth plan to create an alynski style crisis to acheive rifle control, with murdered Mexicans and Border agent and plenty more to come....then.... Perry surrenders that whole issue  and puts it at the level of of the government paying 200$ for a hammer.

Did I miss something?

105

Ace,

 

I and a few others took a lot of shit as Palin supporters a few months ago, so itÂ’s time for a little good-natured fun at the expense of poll basement dwellers who have no chance of ever being the nominee.

 

Although you convinced yourself that everyone who backed her was an unthinking cult member, it will eventually occur to you that a thoroughly vetted reformer might have been just the ticket for 2012.  Failing that, you can jump on board my new horseÂ…

 

Gary Johnson.

106
Newt says he'll race Obama in three marathons.

107

I really think people need to examine whether they are interested in politics for tangible change, or if they're in it for some kind of soft, self-esteem boosting validation

Well ace, it ceratinly ain't for an ego boost.  The last few elections I've gone something like 0-15 for National and Statewide seats.  Living in CT as a conservative will do that to you.  Shit, I think the last time anyone won that I voted for was when Lieberman was running against that commie Ned Lamont back in '06.  Yeah, I voted for the lesser of two evils.  The republican didn't even show up to the party.

Hell, I even voted for Romney back in the '08 prinmary.  The State went for McCain.  I wrote in Norm Root in the General.  It didn't matter who I voted for because Obama won huge.

 

108 When Palin does the obvious shit she says "Fire Eric Holder".

When Perry does the obvious shit, he says "bungled".

And one of them is a candidate for President, and the other is a seldom-seen-at-her-purported-paying-gig talking head.  Who posts on Facebook.  Like some tween gossip-junky.

Seriously, folks, Palin is not the only one who has been saying this, and Rick Perry is the only Candidate who has.  So which one actually deserves some credit, here?

109 Dude, that's one seriously accomplished retarded 3 year old.  Most kids can't tie their own shoes until they're 5 or 6.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 18, 2011 03:56 PM (8y9MW)

My daughter was 4.......but she's above average.

110 Thank God.  A truly important story.

I was beginning to fear we'd start investigating totally unimportant issues such as bizarre, completely ridiculous and baseless rumors that may have begun to crop up for no reason whatsoever that a handsome young man with a bright screen future might possibly maybe theoretically at some point in time have doused a still-hot-and-fuckable star actress with steak sauce and tied a bag over her head and wrapped an anchor around her neck before pushing her over the side of a boat.

I heard Robert Wagner was heavily involved with this totally hypothetical stuff that didn't actually happen and no one needs to look into any further, but you didn't hear it from me.

111 Sarah Palin: The Only Real Fighter (Who, By the Way, Quits Fighting and/or Refuses to Fight) It's easy to be Tough Guy when you're not in the arena. I should know.

112 You guys don't seem to get that your case is not strengthened by making accusations with insufficient evidence.

There may not be enough evidence yet for a Grand Conspiracy to Grab Guns and 90% BS stats prosecution or Major candidate statement but there's plenty that it's more than just a bungle.  A bungle is retrying GunWalker with 1 rifle, no tracking and saying Doh!

113
Newt asks Herman Cain to join him in an old fashioned log rolling.

114 You seem to think the more out-there the accusation is, the more it moves people TOWARDS your direction.

No. The moment someone thinks you're talking like a crank they move away from you and dismiss you.

Huh?  Now you tell me...

115 87 You know what I'm thinkin?????

116

Did I miss something?

 

I don't know, I was on vacation that week.

 

117 >>>And one of them is a candidate for President, and the other is a seldom-seen-at-her-purported-paying-gig talking head. Who posts on Facebook. Like some tween gossip-junky. AllenG channeling JeffB. But seriously, enough. I'm sick of hearing about your goddamned Fantasy Candidate who fucking quit politics two years ago but you were too smitten to notice.

118 Palin is not the only one who has been saying this, and Rick Perry is the only Candidate who has.  So which one actually deserves some credit, here?

I like them both.  I hope they keep firing.

119 WHAT IF? What if Perry had refused to go on any debates and had only done TV Adds and interviews from the get go?

120 I've demanded that everyone vote for the nominee regardless of who it turns out to be. However, the northeastern faggots (as EoJ calls them) are starting to piss me off. I will vote for Romney in the final but I would suggest that you guys keep the NE faggotry to a minimum. It's annoying as fuck.

121 Just read a tweet that Perry will be on Cavuto's show @ 4:30 ET.

122 Watching the Republican candidates is like watching the Randall's animals "Stiffy Goat" YouTube video. They are up running around and then they fall and appear dead. Bit it gets up! It's alive. Then it falls dead again. "Is it dead?" "Wait! It got back up! Don't do this to me!"

123
Boob Schieffer is an old funny bastard.

This morning he predicted that everyone in congress, both right and left, will be thrown out in the next election.

124

Good for Perry.  Been waiting for one of the candidates to really go after this.  Maybe I'll give him a 10th look.

125 Did I miss something?

Apparently the part where Rick Perry is a candidate for President, and therefore not really free to say the same kinds of things we are- no matter how much he may or may not believe them.

126 Ooops....now they're saying 4:15 ET.

127 Didn't Mitt Romney quit politics about 5 years ago?

128 >>>Did I miss something? Yes you missed the part where 95% of the country is not at all like you, despite your solipsistic insistence that it is.

129
Newt challenges Eric Holder to a pie-eating contest.

130 I really think Ace doesn't like Sarah Palin. What do you guys think?

131 Hitler bungled the Jews

132 Newt challenged Perry to a bung-hole contest.

133 there's some shizzle goin' on up in heyah!

134 130 >>>Did I miss something?


Yes you missed the part where 95% of the country is not at all like you, despite your solipsistic insistence that it is.

Posted by: ace at November 18, 2011 04:05 PM (nj1bB)

I am the 5%!

135 >>>Although you convinced yourself that everyone who backed her was an unthinking cult member, it will eventually occur to you that a thoroughly vetted reformer might have been just the ticket for 2012. Ah, well then her cowardice is even more objectionable for bailing out of a race she could have easily won.

136 AllenG channeling JeffB.

Ouch.  Ace.  Your words are hurtful.

137
Newt challenges Gov Perry to a debate and a reenactment of the Burr/Hamilton duel.

138

Newt challenges Pelosi to an old fashioned Indian Leg Wrestle. 

Best two of three. 

Loser gets a five second Indian Burn and a Purple Nerple.

139

125
Boob Schieffer is an old funny bastard.

This morning he predicted that everyone in congress, both right and left, will be thrown out in the next election.

 

That's what Dems and MSM always say when they've be beaten like a rented mule. They all be bums. Good deflection and projection at teh same time.

140 I like Palin for what she is, a Facebook blogger. It's her supporters I have a problem with. No matter what bad decision she makes (such as, I'm told, being too cowardly or money-hungry to enter a presidential race she could win, when the Nation Needs Her), it always seems to be the fault of other people, like me, for Not Believing In Her Divinity Hard Enough.

141 138 AllenG channeling JeffB.

Ouch.  Ace.  Your words are hurtful.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 18, 2011 04:07 PM (8y9MW)

That was really low. Are you ok Allen? Need some ice?

142 79 - so obvious that Perry is the only candidate running with it. (Granted, they're Republicans.)

143 Okay... who gave the ewok caffeine?  There are more zingers in this post than a convenience store- and those are just from ace.

144 "Bungled" is the exact right tack. What's an easier sell - this 2A "gun-grabber" conspiracy or that Obama is just incompetent? Put it in the context of all his other failures domestically. If someone can prove the conspiracy, it's easy enough to flex to the new position: "It's worse than I thought. Not just incompetence, but criminally incompetent." Scaling the attack up is more defensible than scaling it down.

145
Newt ought to get his own tv show. Every week he can challenge people to odd contests.

146
pokes head in..... looks around....

Man.... YOU guys are kinda messed up

147 That was really low. Are you ok Allen? Need some ice?

Luckily, I always wear my cup when I'm at the HQ.

148 I would just like to point out that I have not joined the Palinista bashing.

_Yet.

149 Please, please tell me again that Sarah Palin, gubernatorial abdicator and presidential non-runner, is the Only Real Fighter In America. When does this Only Real Fighter start fighting anywhere but fucking Facebook?

150

Ah, well then her cowardice is even more objectionable for bailing out of a race she could have easily won.

Posted by: ace at November 18, 2011 04:07 PM (nj1bB)

 

Which is exactly why I donÂ’t light all the candles in my Sarah Palin shrine each day.

151

Maybe we should all give Michelle Bachman another look because according to her she has been Gaff Free.

http://tinyurl.com/7w4bjh6

 

152

Republicans don't "run" with anything. They poke it carefully and then jump back.

153 it always seems to be the fault of other people, like me, for Not Believing In Her Divinity Hard Enough.

We will continue to pray that Her divine providence will sweep over your hardened black soul.

154 I know, I know, I didn't defend her enough. Because that's what I want in a candidate, someone who needs me to fight her battles, rather than someone who fights mine.

155 The Outlaw in the Heavenly Hall

Norm Root?

156 121 WHAT IF?

What if Perry had refused to go on any debates and had only done TV Adds and interviews from the get go?

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 18, 2011 04:04 PM (eCnLg)

Every single response from the candidates would have included a slam at Perry.  Instead of just every 3rd response.

157 Hollowpoint, AllenG has ably subbed in for you. Guys got some moves.

158

I don't necessarily have a problem with the bungle word, its just a speech, however there is actual testimony of the higher ups saying don't follow the weapons.  And video with the perps driving away after loading their weapons, then not being followed.

159

When does this Only Real Fighter start fighting anywhere but fucking Facebook?

Doen't she tweet too?

160 Perry coming up on Cavuto.....

161
They poke it carefully and then jump back.

Remember the scene in STAND BY ME with the DEAD BODY?

162 Lets be honest we need to surrender now because none of our guys could compete head to head against Obama in golf.  The guy has literally spent more hours golfing and with crazy chicks.(Jarret -Moochelle)... then Mr Woods hisself.

163
No. The moment someone thinks you're talking like a crank they move away from you and dismiss you.


Ron Paul vehemently disagrees.

164 By the way, F&F was bungled regardless of what you believe the intent was.  If it was some sort of attempt to track gun purchases, then it failed miserably. If it was an attempt to sow chaos in Mexico with American guns, then it failed because we weren't supposed to hear about it.

165 When does this Only Real Fighter start fighting anywhere but fucking Facebook?

Who would listen to a conservative blogger!! Man, that's nuts. 

166 143 I like Palin for what she is, a Facebook blogger.

It's her supporters I have a problem with. No matter what bad decision she makes (such as, I'm told, being too cowardly or money-hungry to enter a presidential race she could win, when the Nation Needs Her), it always seems to be the fault of other people, like me, for Not Believing In Her Divinity Hard Enough.   Ace clue me in here. Several months ago you saying Perry couldn't win and one of your wonkish accountants was the way to go. Now Perry is polling in the single digits, launching desparate broadsides with wiggle room and you are pumping him. WTF over? Do you just like latching on to sinking ships to demonstrate your strong swimming skills? I am honestly confused.

167 Ye gods!

168 157 I know, I know, I didn't defend her enough.

Because that's what I want in a candidate, someone who needs me to fight her battles, rather than someone who fights mine.

Posted by: ace at November 18, 2011 04:10 PM (nj1bB)

Republicans eat their own. Probably descended from gerbils. Who do we defend?

169 Maybe we should all give Michelle Bachman another look because according to her she has been Gaff Free.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

What next?  Cain comes out and says he's the most knowledgeable candidate, especially with respect to foreign policy?

170 Ron Paul vehemently disagrees.

Only because he's so surrounded by pot-head cultists that he doesn't notice the normal people edging away slowly, and not making any sudden moves.

171 Let me just say this about Newt's debating prowess and Perry's deficiencies thereof;

Against the SCOAMF debating skill won't matter, because the GOP nominee will be playing in a rigged game.

Analogous to baseball, it would be saying we can't put Perry in there because he's prone to wildness while Newt throws strikes. Doesn't matter because the MBM will be the umpires and anything the SCOAMF throws that doesn't hit the dirt or the batter will be called a strike, and the GOP nominee will have to throw it in a tiny movable zone to get the call

172 Do you just like latching on to sinking ships to demonstrate your strong swimming skills?

Ouch.  That sounded like my dating life.

173

you guys are still hoping for that Perry comeback huh?

*eyes show disbelief*

are the 8% who support him all on here?

174 I am glad that so many of us have sent money to Perry.  He will come back, and he is the most conservative in the race with a chance.
Would Bachman make a good AG?  I think she would, and she does have what it would take to get the DOJ back to normal.
The "bungled" word does not seem too weak.  There are people-I have met them-who have not heard of F&F, so by having a presidential candidate even mention it will get more people hearing about it.  I don't think it was an oversight that F&F, Solyndra and the debt have not been brought up in the debates.  The MSM is doing their best to keep the public uninformed, so for our candidates to bring these issues up is a good way to get them discussed.

175 hahaha, its Huckabee

176 Ouch.  Ace.  Your words are hurtful.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 18, 2011 04:07 PM (8y9MW)

Better put some ice on that.

177 "bungled" is such a stupid thing to fight about.  Who cares?  The only purpose is to get the MSM to start talking about F&F.  It will take off from there.  If "bungled" is implausible, then it will be clearly shown to have been so and Perry can say, "whoops, it was worse than I thought, goshdarnit."

178 Cain comes out and says he's the most knowledgeable candidate, especially with respect to foreign policy? Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 18, 2011 04:13 PM (SY2Kh) Well he kinda already said that. He said that when he made that gaff about obama's Libya policy, and babbled for 2 minutes, he was just collecting his thoughts

179 Is he available?

180

It's just me and I understand Ace's point of view, but he could have added, even as kind of a back-scatter comment, that this operation had all the elements in it for the SCOAMF regime to possibly abridge our 2d amendment rights.

I mean, come on, almost everyone knows that the leftists have been wanting to do this for a long long time.

181
Newt suggests that all GOP candidates join him for a seance tonight to consult the Founding Fathers.

182 179 hahaha, its Huckabee

Posted by: Cherry pi at November 18, 2011 04:15 PM (OhYCU)

I know...that was just cruel of Cavuto.

183

The Outlaw in the Heavenly Hall

Norm Root?

Heh.  I'm a big fan of the Licoln Highway.

 

Where the hell did I dig up that name? 

 

I meant Wayne Root.

184 Ace clue me in here. Several months ago you saying Perry couldn't win and one of your wonkish accountants was the way to go.

I think you misread some posts.  Ace has been Pro-Perry since shortly before he entered the race.  He did lose his faith for a while, there, but he has rejoined the rest of us realizing that Perry is the best of a not-perfect (but far better than Barack Obama, who is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure, and RINO Romney, who was liberal enough to get elected governor in Massachusetts) lot.

185 Posted by: kbdabear at November 18, 2011 04:14 PM (Y+DPZ)

There will be no presidential debates no matter who is the GOP nominee.

There.  I said it.  Mark it down.  Obama will duck them all.

186

Posted by: AmishDude, IA caucus vote for Perry at November 18, 2011 04:15 PM (T0NGe)

AmishDude we have primaries not caucuses in FL, is it from your experience that there's bullying in caucases at all? Im just curious (spit) to know OH and do polls for cauceses mean nothing as folks can persuade someone on election day to change their vote?

187
that this operation had all the elements in it for the SCOAMF regime to possibly abridge our 2d amendment rights.

That would be a crazy, paranoid..... ummmm...... conspiracy.....

188 Now he could use his famous "heartless" and "last name".

Are they all on Tardasil?

189 Even if Perry and Gingrich do not get the nomoination...Continue to jack it up Obama's Ass. Just like the MFM...Just throw the stuff out there and make Obama answer..........

190 I snuck into ace's room while he was at Blog Con.  Nothing but Palin posters and empty Valu-Rite bottles.

191 There will be no presidential debates no matter who is the GOP nominee. There. I said it. Mark it down. Obama will duck them all. Posted by: AmishDude, IA caucus vote for Perry at November 18, 2011 04:17 PM (T0NGe) even obama would get destroyed for trying to do that even by the MSM

192 It never fails.....one dude gets Ace's fur going the wrong way and he beats that horse till it's 4 feet deep in a hole.

193
Newt challenges Obama to a race across the English Channel.

194 There.  I said it.  Mark it down.  Obama will duck them all.

Posted by: AmishDude, IA caucus vote for Perry at November 18, 2011 04:17 PM (T0NGe)

If he pulled that I think it would hurt him, this isn't 1964 and Obama ain't a strong incumbent

195 Face it. They're all retards. We just have to find the one that has the highest score on the retard scale.

196

“…it always seems to be the fault of other people, like me…”

 

When I think of poor Sarah reading AoSHQ each day looking for one word of encouragement from you, and the tears she must have cried from all the hurtful things you saidÂ….   Well, how could you blame her for not running?

 

Yes, my friends, it was all AceÂ’s fault.

 

When the country goes down in flames, we know who to point the finger at.

197 It's just me and I understand Ace's point of view, but he could have added, even as kind of a back-scatter comment, that this operation had all the elements in it for the SCOAMF regime to possibly abridge our 2d amendment rights.

He certainly could have, and it may not have been a bad move.  But by leaving that alone, he leaves himself room to maneuver.  He also keeps his powder dry for if SCAOMFOTUS tries to respond directly.

That is: I don't think it significantly weakens his attack to hold it back, and it may give him some room to ramp it up later, if that becomes a good option.

198 >>>AllenG channeling JeffB.

Ironically enough, I always felt like I was channeling you.  Have you ever actually read the tone of a lot of your comments?

"I learned it from YOU, Dad!  I learned it from you!"

199 Iowa. January?  I'll be in the Caribbean, the pool boy handing me a nice, cool drink as my sunglasses fog up from the sheer hawtness of his ass.

200 #147 Empire of Jeff has some good points.  I'd like to add another:  As the details become more well know (as a result of Perry raising the issue if and only if he keeps on with it) then more people will connect the dots.  After all, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the program and realize that 'bungled' is probably too mild a word.

201
jeebus jwest.....

You can push buttons but DONT PUSH THE BIG RED ONE.........

202 200, that post had me in tears.

203 "She could of easily won"

Baaa haaa haaaa. She is a religious looney that wants to make the 10 commandments law (go look it up as I am not posting a tiny url). Even I am not that crazy.

204 Why do you have to talk about serious stuff all the time, Ace? Why are you always talking about Rick Perry and not important stuff like Katy Perry?

205 Bachmann made the claim on both Fox News and the Today Show with no evidence whatsoever that the vaccine did, in fact, cause cognitive disorders.

"Safe" or not.

206 Ironically enough, I always felt like I was channeling you.

I'm not sure if I'm honored by that, or not...

207 Katy Perry has boobies.  Rick Perry has umm, what?

208 @ Sub-Tard, Here's why I think Perry can win: Besides Eisenhower, who else has been elected President in the last century that did not hold a Governorship, national office, or a Cabinet-level position? And Eisenhower had just won World War II. Mittens and Gingrich, the most serious threats, IMO are past their expiration dates. They are FORMER politicians. Private citizens. Dudes on the street. The rest aren't worth talking about. Explain to me how it is possible for them to jump from the private sector to the White House.

209

195 There will be no presidential debates no matter who is the GOP nominee.

There. I said it. Mark it down. Obama will duck them all.
Posted by: AmishDude, IA caucus vote for Perry at November 18, 2011 04:17 PM (T0NGe)

even obama would get destroyed for trying to do that even by the MSM

---------

The MSM will just cover for him, like they did before.....except this time they will say that "he's too busy presidenting and doing important presidential stuff".

I agree with AmishDude. ....Obama will probably duck any debate.

210

There will be no presidential debates no matter who is the GOP nominee

Barry will be much to busy dealing with the Middle East war he formented worked so hard to deter.

211

175 Analogous to baseball, it would be saying we can't put Perry in there because he's prone to wildness while Newt throws strikes. Doesn't matter because the MBM will be the umpires and anything the SCOAMF throws that doesn't hit the dirt or the batter will be called a strike, and the GOP nominee will have to throw it in a tiny movable zone to get the call.

 

kbdabear, this is what I have been saying all along. This is not an election between two candidates or two parties, its an election between normal Americans and the media. Obama is a dead man walking that his true believers (or should I say creators) refuse to let decompose. This situation means the race is fought between media and teh pubbie candidate. Of those pubbies on parade, there is only one that knows how to triangulate the media and win votes from the middle - thats Newt. Romney' plan is to lay low and sabotage other pubbies making him the last man standing. He thinks he will get a pass from the media since he is really a liberal and understanding of NE Faggotry. McCain thought this way too.

212 Katy Perry has boobies.  Rick Perry has umm, what?

You make an intriguing point.

More Katy Perry posts, Ace.  Let me recommend Christina Hendricks as well.

213 You can push buttons but DONT PUSH THE BIG RED ONE.........
Posted by: fixerupper

Push the button MAX!!!

214 Obama will debate.

The MSM will say he won the debate regardless what happens.  And. we. will. go. along.

215 >>>I'm not sure if I'm honored by that, or not...

I was referring to Ace, not you.  I mean, I'm sorta kidding, but then again it's always amused me how he often adopts exactly the same tone as I do (except nastier and funnier, because he's better at this shit) and yet I'm the one who catches all the flak.

I guess that's the difference between being the owner of the blog and just another random RINO douchebag commenter.

216 Besides Eisenhower, who else has been elected President in the last century that did not hold a Governorship, national office, or a Cabinet-level position?

I think you almost have to include Obama in that, given that he was in national office for something like 90 days before he started running for President.

217 Still waiting for Perry on Cavuto....

218 Yes you missed the part where 95% of the country is not at all like you, despite your solipsistic insistence that it is.

Posted by: ace at November 18, 2011 04:05 PM (nj1bB)

I have faults times many,, but thinking the whole country thinks like me is very much not one of them.  I know you have a lot of commentators and the endless socks cant help.  I think my comments collectively show quite the opposite.  Nearly all my posts are about strategies of managing biased media and the ensuing reactions of the uninformed.

Did democrats call Iran - Contra "bureaucratic bungling."  If Bush had called called those pre 9/11 memos about "Bin Laden - looking to strike on US soil"  Bureaucratic Bungling, would it have been wrong for the left to pounce on it?  I don't think so,  even if its whole the story.

My point which you did not address and I doubt you disagree with is that when there is literally blood in the streets and more to come "bureaucratic bungling" is a poor and even incorrect way to describe such an event.

219

The MSM will just cover for him, like they did before.....except this time they will say that "he's too busy presidenting and doing important presidential stuff".

I agree with AmishDude. ....Obama will probably duck any debate.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at November 18, 2011 04:23 PM (H/0mM)

There will be a manufactured crisis mid to late August that he will have to focuse on through September.  And of course as you know after every single crisis Obama must finally turn his focus to jobs (for the 400th time).

220 Fox News. Now with more ginger.

221

I only had two litmus tests for supporting a GOP primary candidate: he or she couldn't be Ron Paul and he or she must mention Fast & Furious in a public forum of some kind, whether debate or interview or press release, I didn't care. I understand why Perry would not assert what Ace calls the Big Theory, to which I happen to ascribe. Like Ace, he may not buy it or he may think it sounds tinfoil-hat conspiratorial to go that far with it. No matter. I've liked Perry throughout, in spite of his poor debate performances. I'm going all in.

As an aside, I cannot for the life of me understand Newt! mania any more than I could Cain! mania. Both Gingrich's and Cain's shortcomings seem so blatantly obvious to me. Oh, well.

222 I was referring to Ace, not you.

Oh.  Good.  {wipes brow}  That makes me feel much better.

223

213 @ Sub-Tard,

Explain to me how it is possible for them to jump from the private sector to the White House.

 

Simple, they win an election. Shit Sparky did it so we know its not that hard. As I recall Nixon did it. Same with Roosevelt. Pretty sure Wilson did it. Dittos Lincoln and Jackson. I could go on EOJ.

224

There will be no presidential debates no matter who is the GOP nominee

Barry will be much to busy dealing with the Middle East war he formented worked so hard to deter.

Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 18, 2011

I hope that works better than my Rose Garden Strategy worked in 1980

225

>>>The MSM will just cover for him, like they did before.....except this time they will say that "he's too busy presidenting and doing important presidential stuff".

>>>I agree with AmishDude. ....Obama will probably duck any debate.

You're both completely wrong.  But dear god I hope he DOES try to do this.  He'll get massacred, not only by the media -- who, yes, will flay him for this one, as it's an insult to them as well -- but the masses as well. 

No President has been able to avoid debating his opponent since (I believe) the Eisenhower administration.  And that was in the Stone Age, in terms of media.   Obama, as a near-historically weak incumbent seeking reelection, will not have that option.  He ain't Ike, after all.

Seriously: you need to be more realistic and less paranoid-conspiracy about things.

226 Katy Perry has boobies.  Rick Perry has umm, what?


Balls. Great big, pudding worthy balls.

227

AmishDude we have primaries not caucuses in FL, is it from your experience that there's bullying in caucases at all? Im just curious (spit) to know OH and do polls for cauceses mean nothing as folks can persuade someone on election day to change their vote?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is Offering $ To ace If He Bans Curious/Sky at November 18, 2011 04:17 PM (yAor6)

I was at the caucuses in 2008.  It is different for the Democrats, but here's how it worked for me:

On a dark and cold evening (somebody offer me a job in the desert southwest please) you gather at a specific place at a specific time.  Mine was an elementary school gym at, I think, 7pm.  There are many more of these places than polling precincts in my town.  There were several rooms in the school that were used for caucusing, R & D.

In the R room, some GOP functionary like a precinct captain calls everybody to order.  There is at most one representative for every candidate.  They are given a few minutes to discuss their candidate.  They are instructed to only speak about their candidate and not denigrate the others. At my caucus, they were very good about this, there weren't even backhand attacks against the other candidate, it was all about how awesome your guy was and how he was for what we all want.

Then, there was a secret ballot.  The results were tallied right there.  I am given to understand that on the Dem side, they actually go to different sides of the room and there's pressure and bullying to move people.

In 2008, I was surprised that Huck got so many votes, but it was clear that he was lobbying the evangelical churches and associated groups and organizations directly and he managed to GOTV pretty well.

So, to answer your question, there wasn't bullying.  Every candidate's representative -- even Ron Paul's -- was treated very respectfully.

By the way, at the end of the thing, they choose delegates to the statewide convention and other party positions.  So if you don't like the way the GOP does things, this is how you do it, get involved in the micro level.  Look at NY.  Those people who do the drudgery are the ones who actually make the state parties work and when it comes time to do important things, they are in the driver's seat.

228

People get too wrapped up in the whims of year-before-the-election polls, when most of the "straight" people aren't even paying attention.  The reason Perry is going to be there in the end is because he has the resume, and now that he's gotten good press for being a likeable goof, he's bringing the hammer on a dislikeable set of goofs in the current Administration. 

Perry might not get the nomination, but he will finish either first or second, and Obama WILL NOT be reelected.  You can say you heard it here first, and you're welcome to tell me how brilliant I am 12 months from now.

229

If he pulled that I think it would hurt him, this isn't 1964 and Obama ain't a strong incumbent

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is Offering $ To ace If He Bans Curious/Sky at November 18, 2011 04:18 PM (yAor6)

Carter.

I'm betting he'll find an excuse for missing the first (1.3 richter earthquake in Podunk, Ohio) and then will just skip out on the rest after the media has laid down the meme of excuses.

230 There will be no presidential debates no matter who is the GOP nominee.

There.  I said it.  Mark it down.  Obama will duck them all.

Posted by: AmishDude, IA caucus vote for Perry at November 18, 2011 04:17 PM (T0NGe)

 

That has always been my contention.  The SCOAMF regime has nothing, and I mean nothing.  Alan Greene could win a debate against them.  And if Newt gets the go-ahead, the deal is sealed.  No debates.

231 Rick freakin Perry LIVE

232 He's wearing a Longhorn tie?  Isn't he an Aggie?

233

let's go Rick ... time to nut up or shut up ...

234

Perry might not get the nomination, but he will finish either first or second, and Obama WILL NOT be reelected.  You can say you heard it here first, and you're welcome to tell me how brilliant I am 12 months from now.

Posted by: Burt TC at November 18, 2011 04:30 PM (TOk1P)

 

And I will add that Mitt Romney will not be our nominee. 

235 He's wearing a Longhorn tie?  Isn't he an Aggie?

Yes, but he works in Austin.  It's kind of exactly the opposite from the Aggies Girls championship team (Softball?  Basketball?) that Obama hosted recently giving him a jersey.  I'm sure they WANTED to put the name SCOAMF on the back, but refrained, and even praised the President.  Because that's what you do on those occasions.

236

As an aside, I cannot for the life of me understand Newt! mania any more than I could Cain! mania. Both Gingrich's and Cain's shortcomings seem so blatantly obvious to me. Oh, well.

Posted by: troyriser at November 18, 2011 04:26 PM (vtiE6)

Ditto.  I don't get it.  Look, I can see even a rock-ribbed conservative liking Romney more than Perry for a variety of reasons, but I can't see how the others are a viable alternative.  They won't get nominated (i.e., beat Romney) and certainly won't get elected.  This ain't Baskin Robbins, where you get your own flavor.  We all get the same one and that's why it's either vanilla or chocolate.

And with that, I denounce myself.

237

231....Seriously: you need to be more realistic and less paranoid-conspiracy about things.

Very well, JeffB.....how many times did Obama debate McCain?

I seem to remember some cancelled debates in 2008. And the O wasn't even president then, but the media covered for him.

238 194 I snuck into ace's room while he was at Blog Con.  Nothing but Palin posters and empty Valu-Rite bottles.
Posted by: Cherry pi at November 18, 2011 04:18 PM

Good thing I didn't show up, it would have been horrifying

239

No President has been able to avoid debating his opponent since (I believe) the Eisenhower administration

I think Nixon avoided McGovern in 1972

240 Woodrow Wilson was Gov of NJ at the time Nixon had already been VP FDR was gov of New York Lincoln and Jackson are too far back to matter. Thanks for nothing.

241 245 194 I snuck into ace's room while he was at Blog Con.  Nothing but Palin posters and empty Valu-Rite bottles.
Posted by: Cherry pi at November 18, 2011 04:18 PM

Good thing I didn't show up, it would have been horrifying

I'm betting on Justin Bieber posters. Just sayin.

242 IMO - What Rick Perry should have said:

With this Fast and Furious situation,  its tempting to think of it as another "bureaucratic bungling" by big government.  It unthinkably is already linked to over 200 murders in Mexico and a US border control agent.  We already have the brave testimony of those inside the department who were punished for speaking out against it.   This is as tragic as it is horrifying and those who encouraged, defended, and covered it up, have blood on their hands and I will not rest until those survivors of the victims and the American people see those hands in cuffs and the truth exposed to the light of day.

243 Ace, you were with me all the way on Christie, what will it take for me to convince you to follow me on Romney?

Come on over, I've got pizza, a fridge full of beer, and new crotchless panties

244

245 194 I snuck into ace's room while he was at Blog Con.  Nothing but Palin posters and empty Valu-Rite bottles.
Posted by: Cherry pi at November 18, 2011 04:18 PM

 

The posters weren’t “sticky”, were they?

245 Lincoln and Jackson are too far back to matter.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 18, 2011 04:35 PM

Word !!!

246 My border county was able to hire an additional Deputy this month thanks to Gov. Perry and his Operation Linebacker funding.
Perry is not soft on border issues.

247 I'd prefer something stronger than "bungling" too but at least he's talking about it...and about the SCoaMF and his administration. I'd like to see Perry direct the rest of his primary campaign against Obama and his minions, and pretty much ignore the rest of the GOP field. Act like he's already the nominee sorta.

Perry/Gingrich 2012!

248

Very well, JeffB.....how many times did Obama debate McCain?

I seem to remember some cancelled debates in 2008. And the O wasn't even president then, but the media covered for him.

I dont know if the media will cover for him but I highly doubt he'll avoid debates, he'll be hurt massively if he looks like the weak incumbent avoiding a debate. if Bush avoided Kerry in 04 it would have ended in Kerry as President

249

No President has been able to avoid debating his opponent since (I believe) the Eisenhower administration.  And that was in the Stone Age, in terms of media.   Obama, as a near-historically weak incumbent seeking reelection, will not have that option.  He ain't Ike, after all.

Seriously: you need to be more realistic and less paranoid-conspiracy about things.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 18, 2011 04:28 PM (K+pvw)

I am being realistic.  Carter (granted, he lost) skipped out on at least 1 debate.

The visuals are just all wrong for Obama.  Debates would make him look weak, especially next to debate-man Newt, central-casting Romneyhair and I'll-take-care-of-this-coyote Perry.

Obama's not a great debater, although he will have some knowledge of facts. But at a debate, his opponent will challenge him and he doesn't need to be reminded of 9% unemployment, etc.  If he doesn't go to a debate, nobody will ever ask him about the failures of his presidency.

He's going to play the Great And Powerful Oz strategy.  He's going to hide behind the curtain and project a big giant head, ephemeral and artificial.

250 >>>I think Nixon avoided McGovern in 1972

Yeah, that makes sense.  And if Obama were as well-situated against the GOP nominee as Nixon was against McGovern, then I could see him avoiding debates.  But Carter (who is a much better analog) tried this stunt with Reagan and eventually was forced to agree to one debate. 

Obama may well only agree to one debate.  But he has to do at least one.

251 248
Woodrow Wilson was Gov of NJ at the time

Nixon had already been VP

FDR was gov of New York

Lincoln and Jackson are too far back to matter.

Thanks for nothing.
Sorry EOJ. Wilson and Roos where indeed sitting Govs. I would add Reagan to the list from private life to WH though.

252 >>>Very well, JeffB.....how many times did Obama debate McCain?

Erm...they debated three times.  Which is a completely normal number.  I think your memory has failed you, which is why you're making this silly argument.

253

Posted by: AmishDude, IA caucus vote for Perry at November 18, 2011 04:28 PM (T0NGe)

thanks for the insight

254

ItÂ’s time for a truce between Ace and me.

 

HeÂ’s backing someone whoÂ’s barely registering in the polls and I like someone who isnÂ’t even running.  LetÂ’s split the difference and go with someone in the middle.

 

Gary Johnson.

255 Actually, Obama and McCain debated FOUR times if you count the Saddleback Forum, which wasn't quite a debate.

256

Perry did great on Cavuto just now.

 

257

261 >>>Very well, JeffB.....how many times did Obama debate McCain?

Erm...they debated three times.  Which is a completely normal number.  I think your memory has failed you, which is why you're making this silly argument.

C'mon, nobody debates with McCain, they just let teh press ask him uncomfortable questions and watch him squirm. He's a maverick don't you know?

258 >>>He's going to play the Great And Powerful Oz strategy.  He's going to hide behind the curtain and project a big giant head, ephemeral and artificial.

1.) No, he won't, and I would be willing to bet money on it.  Real money.  Care to?

2.) If he did, it would be the greatest thing ever to happen to us.  It would guarantee his loss. 

3.) Don't get me wrong -- he WILL attempt to minimize the number of debates.  He has everything to lose and nothing to gain from them.  But he must participate in them.  It's a different era now.  No candidate will ever be able to avoid debates completely again.

259

Gary Johnson.

Posted by: jwest at November 18, 2011 04:44 PM (qeYI9)

if he was more common sense on foreign policy, was more quiet about being for thinsg social conservatives are against, and had a personality that was that other of a nervous guy who just left the local sanitarium, Johnson would be great.

260 The debates are already scheduled, actually.  There's a debate commission, 3 pres and 1 VP. http://tinyurl.com/6b7fdud

What I would do if I were Obama is demand some ridiculous moderator, like Chris Matthews.  The GOP candidate can either say no, in which case -- debate off -- or propose other weird demands.

But I think he'll just pull the "presidential emergency" card.

261 The thing is, a Republican debating Obama is 100X easier than a Republican debating another Republican.  Especially for Perry.

He's willing to hit hard, on general points. 

And there probably will be very, very few debates.

Perry criticizing Cain on spending?  Kinda hard to do.  Perry criticizing Cain on foreign policy?  Not sure precisely where to start.  Perry criticizing Obama for his deficits and lack of a budget?  Simple.

No, Perry would not do as well as Newt or Romney in the debates, but he would do well, and then the real part of the campaign would suit him even better, because Perry can sell himself as the jobs candidate with loads of success running government.  And his commercials have always been outstanding.

262 Interesting, Joe Paterno admitted to hospital for lung cancer. Shoosh, karma works fast.

263 Yahoo! Finally a candidate at least MENTIONS it.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

264

259.....Obama may well only agree to one debate. But he has to do at least one.

And you would be surprised if that 'one debate' got cancelled at the last minute?....Because of some important presidential stuff that came up, of course.

None of us know if that is what will happen, JeffB. .....All I am saying is that the chances of it happening are pretty good.....and if it does, the media will cover for him like they always have.

265 Sorry EOJ. Wilson and Roos where indeed sitting Govs. I would add Reagan to the list from private life to WH though. Booyah. Our situation is most analagous to 1980, but who did Reagan have Romney or Newt's baggage?

266 1.) No, he won't [skip all the debates], and I would be willing to bet money on it.  Real money.  Care to?

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 18, 2011 04:46 PM (K+pvw)

I would ($50: $25 to Ace, $25 to the nominee) but I know I will forget by September.

Look, I know I'm going out on a limb and I'm much more confident he will skip one of them than I am that he'll skip all three, but it may just be the case that his numbers are so horrible that he's 95% sure he'll lose and so it can't hurt to be bold.

267 I think we should at least assume there will be a debate.  I like Perry the most, but his debate goofs are a legitimate concern.

I think they are largely easy to alleviate, since debating Obama from the right is so much different than debating Bachmann and Santorum from the right.

Perry gives a good stump speech.  In a debate with just two people, he can sell the general concepts a lot more easily than he can when there are six nearly identical stump speeches.

But Perry really is better because he's walked the walk, has experience, as is far less vulnerable to a third party than Romney.

I still like Newt too, though. 

268 I'm really not worried about debates with Perry.  He's clearly more comfortable attacking and he just can't do that with other Republican candidates.

Plus, if he is nominated, he's pulled the perfect hustle. "OK, now that I've shown my incompetence, let's play for money."

269 >>>And you would be surprised if that 'one debate' got cancelled at the last minute?....Because of some important presidential stuff that came up, of course.

I would be stunned.  It will not happen.  If for some reason it DID happen (like, say, a GENUINE emergency like a sudden Iranian attack on Israel, etc.) then it would be rescheduled.  It would be campaign suicide otherwise.  Even if the media WANTED to cover for him, they wouldn't be able to.  Why do you insist on ascribing magical all-encompassing godlike powers of suppression and persuasion to a media that has singularly failed to convince America that Obama is a-okay-awesome despite their best efforts?

>>>None of us know if that is what will happen, JeffB. ....

No.  I know that won't happen.  I mean, I suppose I don't know in the same sense that I can't be sure that, if I jump out my office window, that the laws of gravity won't suddenly cease to operate, but I can be pretty darn sure.

>>>.All I am saying is that the chances of it happening are pretty good.....and if it does, the media will cover for him like they always have.

And I am saying that the chances of it happening are either zero or near-zero.  To suggest ANYTHING otherwise is merely to let your irrational paranoia conquer your brain.  Again: we should WELCOME Obama trying to do this -- it would redound immensely to our benefit.  Which alone indicates that it won't happen.

270

if he was more common sense on foreign policy, was more quiet about being for thinsg social conservatives are against, and had a personality that was that other of a nervous guy who just left the local sanitarium, Johnson would be great.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is Offering $ To ace If He Bans Curious/Sky at November 18, 2011 04:46 PM (yAor6)

 

Hey, this is no time to get picky.  WeÂ’re running out of candidates.

271 " 277 I'm really not worried about debates with Perry.  He's clearly more comfortable attacking and he just can't do that with other Republican candidates."

Interesting point!

I really was shocked Perry has been so lame in the debates because I remember him crushing Tony Sanchez.  No apology whatsoever... just 'you are shit, this is why, and that's that'.  He managed to present this without looking like a bastard or a kook.  He presented his facts, and expressed his disgust, and it was perfect.

Now, he's not doing so well against people he has many reasons for not attacking.  It's a different game.

I think you're right.  Against Obama, Perry can show the comfortable 'that's pathetic' tone that works well for him.  That should comfort even Perry's loudest detractors.

272 Where was this Rick Perry a month and a half ago?

Where was the non-Mitt candidate taking the battle to the SCOAMF Administration?

Is this the same guy who was trying to pee on Mitt's shoes in the debates?

Is this the same guy who couldn't say three words about Texas immigration law without pissing off 42 other states' voters?

I've said it from the beginning - he, or any dominant non-Mitt, needed to solidify the non-Mitt vote on anti-Obama policy.  He didn't need to run against Romney, or Bachmann, or anyone else.  He needed to run as if he were already the candidate of a party called "Not Mitt", and wait for the "Mitt Party" candidates to drift over.

But he didn't, and he probably torpedoed his candidacy in the process. 

I'd like to see him come back, I think of all the candidates in the GOP field he's probably the best leader.   He may have shot off too many toes, though.

273 Also I would compare Perry's actions here with Bachmanns earlier.  Bachmanns hurt the group with a slight chance of helping her.  Perry's actions on this,  win or lose help the group and cause.  Bachmann needs to go. 

I agree Allen, it probably was smart of him to leave some rhetorical room for the future as more things come out.  Assuming he will continue to hammer this and as governor of Texas he would be justified in complaining about border violence.

Even though I have never been tongue tied in my life, Perry's marble mouth personally didn't bother me.  Obviously it would be a huge possibly fatal liability if he won the Nom.... Even Moses was

Exodus 4:10
And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before, nor since you have spoken unto your servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

That's why his big brother Aaron was his mouthpiece.  Moses did handle the important "let my people go" part himself.

274 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

275 "Where was this Rick Perry a month and a half ago?"

Perry's been bashing Obama very harshly for YEARS.

Such as the run up to Obamacare passing.  Perry was loudly condemning Obama's path.  On a host of issues, Perry's been willing to come out and call Obama out.

He's much better on offense.

I get your point, but Perry's always been bashing Obama.  It's bewildering why he wouldn't have been over Fast and Furious, I agree.

276 Yummy, yummy! Rawn Pawl bad lipreading!

277 You know, I'm not going to link the documentation for the fifth time because it obviously doesn't do any fucking good. That it was deliberate is NOT controversial, in doubt, or hypothetical. Period. Fucking period. The only thing we're guessing on is the motivation. It was not a bungled sting, because it wasn't a sting at all. It was nicknamed gunWALKER because they deliberately let the guns WALK, planning to trace them back from CRIME SCENES, as in after they had been used to murder people. Apparently, this is too much fucking rocket science for people, which is why we are BONED, completely, utterly, and permanently.

278 287, have you been to SSI and checked out the recording he scored?

Talked to Mike on the phone earlier today. He's kind of proud of that one.

279

Only over your dead body will I allow that vaccine pimp and Mexican appeaser to be my nominee.  The key objective in any primary contest, chumps, is to purge the GOP of all RINOs.  The wimp king of the left-wing State of Taxes is an uberRINO.  Nobody in my family or in my church pew will be voting for him. 

Cain-Gingrich-Gingrich-Cain, '12.  Our supporters put the 'dope' back into rope-a-dope! 

280 "they deliberately let the guns WALK, planning to trace them back from CRIME SCENES, as in after they had been used to murder people."

Seems like it.

I do think they meant to track them prior to Fast and Furious, unless I'm mistaken.  That's the point where they just decided to study the crime scenes.

It's insanity.  There is no excuse.  Even if they can prove that Holder and Obama had no clue, that is no excuse (and it's not true... they both knew about this).

281 "Only over your dead body will I allow that vaccine pimp and Mexican appeaser to be my nominee."

Are you joking?  I see you say this stuff and assume you're kidding.

I mean, Perry's the best candidate on border control.  He's walked the walk.  He's not perfect, but he's no appeaser either.

282 291, that's a sockpuppet for comedic effect.

283

278.....And I am saying that the chances of it happening are either zero or near-zero. To suggest ANYTHING otherwise is merely to let your irrational paranoia conquer your brain. Again: we should WELCOME Obama trying to do this -- it would redound immensely to our benefit. Which alone indicates that it won't happen.

Yeah, it would be great if he tried to do this. .....Except if we had nominated a candidate like Newt solely on his great performances in the debates, only to get torn to shreds by the media and then he never gets the chance to debate Obama.

"irrational paranoia".....?

No. Not irrational and not paranoia. ....I've simply watched how Obama does things that we thought "oh, he wouldn't dare do that"....and watched how the media covers it over and ignores it.

 

284 "292 291, that's a sockpuppet for comedic effect.

Posted by: Scott J at November 18, 2011 05:24 PM (KC2BE)"

I'm pretty stupid, huh?

It's because I'm drunk.

285 Dustin he's doing parody... Our supporters put the 'dope' back into rope-a-dope!

286 It's because I'm drunk. Posted by: Dustin at November 18, 2011 05:44 PM ***** Hang in there Dustin.... it's because you read the jest Mallamutt debate where jest thinks the convention will be "brokered" and the powers that be will appoint Palin... gawd...I think Mallamutt is off mainlining somethin' after that one.

287 *jwest vs. Mallumutt* debate

288 Seems like it. Posted by: Dustin at November 18, 2011 05:18 PM (rQ/Ue) No, not "seems like," is. Codrea's Journalist's Guide This is not wild supposition, we have multiple witnesses, documentation, recorded phone calls... It's just that everyone wants to report a step back from the facts of the case, which are HORRIFIC, because to accept the facts leads to conclusions people would rather not think about. I'm not asking people to accept any conclusions, just stop distorting the facts with words like "botched" to describe something deliberate that went as planned. Again, we are guessing at the *motive*, not that it was deliberate.

289 "No, not "seems like," is."

Oh, I know.  It's not even debatable.  Just being flippant about a horrible crime that resulted in hundreds of deaths.  Was that wrong?

290 People who cooperate with the "mistake" meme cover either don't know the facts or don't care. And it's helping the cover up, that's my point. The Dems are trying to make it "go away" with the help of the MSM. They don't need any more help.

291 But what's the equivalent for women who blindly hate men? Posted by: Lace Wigs at November 18, 2011 06:11 PM (IhHdM) Misandrist.

292 " People who cooperate with the "mistake" meme cover either don't know the facts or don't care. And it's helping the cover up, that's my point.

The Dems are trying to make it "go away" with the help of the MSM. They don't need any more help.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 18, 2011 06:11 PM (bxiXv)"

I guess I'm sufficiently sheltered from the MSM that I don't even realize this is in question.

293 “If you’re going to vote for a guy based on stats, on economic prosperity and job growth, it would be Rick Perry.”- Glenn Beck November 15, 2011

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297 Yes, it is entirely possible that Eric Holder was not involved in Fast and Furious after all, he has said he wasn't.  Of course his staff thought he was since they sent him memos on the subject - but it is possible there was someone in between Holder's staff and Holder himself who was involved in Fast and Furious.

Perhaps it was Holder's personal secretary - after all has that person denied being involved? Well there you go then; we have our suspect. I'm sure the internal IG inspection in DOJ will arrive at the same conclusion. Well I'm actually sure that the IG report will say "We are unable to find our butt with both hands state conclusively how the regrettable bureaucratic bungling in this botched operation accidentally occurred."

I'm also sure that the person at the White House who arranged for the 10 million in special ATF financing on page 16 of the economic stimulus bill  was not Teh Won (who has also denied being involved in Fast and Furious) but Zut Alors Pierre the tricky White House French Pastry Chef. I'm sure that same rascal changed policy at the ATF so that his Fast and Furious operation could occur by pretending to be Teh Won. 

By the way how exactly was $10,000,000 to the ATF supposed to stimulate the economy? Oh right, it subsidized the sale of 2000 firearms to the Mexican Drug Cartels since US guns were otherwise too expensive for the Cartels to buy. So - therefore the gun dealers benefited economically. How silly of me to miss that.

Wait a second, wouldn't that money prove that the government didn't expect to seize the weapons, but meant for them to walk all along - since if they meant to seize them they wouldn't have actually had to pay for them and would have traded them back to the gun dealers for their seed money - the way they always have in the past? See, there I go following where the evidence leads - sorry, how stupid of me. I denounce my self.

I'm also sure that the people behind Fast and Furious expected the Mexican drug cartels to use the 2000 weapons to swat gaily colored Pinatas while blind folded - so I guess the 200+ counts of depraved indifference felony murder are off the table also.

Got it - nothing to see here - everybody move along. Inspector Clouseau Prosecutor Ace  is on the case.

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