1 Effin Eyetalics

2 Hooray for Italics!!!!

3

4 Cool. I love when the nerdy kids get rolled. Ha Ha.

5 Things are leaning right.  A positive sign?

6 is this what they mean by journalistic slant? D:

7

That cain ad was hilarious I'm still laughing.

But the Gop needs to revise the 11th commandment in order to add the following words: "except Mutt Romney"

8 Wouldn't be the HQ without loose HTML everywhere.

9 The birther thing is such a bogus stretch.  Sheesh. 

10 Well if he keeps at the "poking" as he thinks this is "fun", I'm out. And I'm all in at this point, but I will in no way shape or form support that bullshit. I'll give a second look to Gingrich as Cain is clearly a buffoon.

Go after the transcripts -- have at it. Anything else -- you're dead to me.

11
Who is advising Gov Perry?

12
Whoever it is needs to be fired.

13 ¡Me gusta itálicos!

14 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

15 This is all part of Perry's plan to be Cain's VP. And Cain is definitely in on it.

16 Perry doesn't need to go after anyone.  Just get out there and sell, sell, sell.

17 This is all part of Perry's plan to be Cain's VP. And Cain is definitely in on it.

Um, what?

Cain haaaaaates Perry.

18 Really, at this point I'm just in it for the lawlz.

What?  You thought I was serious about doing this?

19 Things are leaning right. A positive sign?

Posted by: eastvalleyphx at October 25, 2011 02:20 PM (qiOph)

Mine leans left. That's normal right?

20 Good Lord, not the birther nonsense again.  

Why must our nominees keep shooting themselves in the foot?  We need serious people - this kind of nonsense isn't funny, it is a waste of time, and it is completely unnecessary. 

21
is Joe Albaugh the same genius who attacked McCain's sister in SC in 2000?

22 This post is totally slanted.

23
Miss me yet?

24 Um, what?

Cain haaaaaates Perry.
Posted by: laceyunderalls


That's what they want you to think.

25
Is the Clown & Vibrator thrad?

26

I did like how Perry pointed out his grades were on the front page and Obama's a hidden.

Release the transcripts.

27 I take the judgment of others to be a proxy for actual evidence all the time.  It's better than looking things up yourself.

28 Well, somebody better do something soon, or we're going to be stuck with Flip Flopney.

29 eh. Perry has plenty of time, if he kicks it into high gear.  Any of these candidates going after Romney is long overdue.  They should all do it, and it is easy.  Obamacare = Romneycare = Socialist Health Care.

As an aside, did Perry plagiarize his tax plan from Newt's plan?

30
Why must our nominees keep shooting themselves in the foot? 

Because they're actually aiming for each other but they're too weak to hold up their guns.

31 Joe Allbaugh is a good operative. 

32 If he's purposefully pushing the birther thing, I'm disappointed.  Besides it being a distraction (ask yourself, Rick, who is supposed to be "distracted" by media distractions.  Here's a hint: it's not the candidates/politicians), it's a stupid non-starter.  It was a non-starter before the birth certificate was (4 years late) published.

That said: they're still riffing on the Parade article- which I addressed yesterday.  Things about that quote from Parade don't sound quite right to me- though I only skimmed the WaPo article, and may change my mind when I go back and really read it.

All-in-all, he's still my guy, with Newt a strong second.  Romney's a complete non-starter, Cain is a buffoon (I heard his commercial on Rush today... it really sounded a little misaimed), and RON! PAUL! needs to go home to Houston and stay there.

33

Posted by: Generic Republican at October 25, 2011 02:25 PM (AKVML)

Give me a ham sandwich at this point.

34 1. Close your ital tag, Ace. 2. I think Perry can still pull it out but time is slipping into the future. He needs Cain to stumble and Newt to be an asshole. Luckily for him, the chances of these two occurrences approach 1.

35 Because they're actually aiming for each other but they're too weak to hold up their guns.

Heh.  Well said.

36 This just proves how desperate Perry may, or may not, be.

37
this will only help Newt, who is gaining steam

38 After the Greeks, DOOM! spreads to the Italics.

39 I hate to say it but Perry is freakin' done.  I know some of our candidates have come from way back in the pack, but never someone who had a lead, was overexposed, spit the bit and plummeted, and then got back up and won.  He's my guy if it comes to a vote in my state, but he really fucked this up wire to wire.

And since I absolutely fucking hate Romney and think Cain is an embarrassment to us all, I'm in a hell of a spot here.

This is exactly the kind of clusterfuck that could result in a second Obama Administration.

40

>>>Who is advising Gov Perry?

he just brought in some new people. The guy who ran Johnshon's campaign in Iowa and others.

I think it's a good move

Romney had got off scott free thus far.

He's awful on every single issues. He's a moderate democrat and yet all the other candidates are currying favor with him in hopes of getting on the ticket.

He needs to be knocked out now because we end up with a candidate to the left of John McCain on almost every issue

41 Ace: If it hasn't been pointed out yet, switch the , with a < in this phrase: "Perry clocks in at 6%, which isn't top tier. In fact, it's falling out of the "second,/i> tier, too" to fix the italics thing.

42 25 Is the Clown & Vibrator thrad? Posted by: Soothsayer at October 25, 2011 02:26 PM (sqkOB) Or, even worse, clown-shaped vibrator? (What's a thrad?)

43 As an aside, did Perry plagiarize his tax plan from Newt's plan?

No.  From Steve Forbes.  Steve may have plagiarized from Newt, however.

44 Any chance we can talk The Fred into running?

45 Without ignoring the question, should Perry have said something different when ASKED about the BC? He didn't "float the BC issue".

Personally I think he answered that stupid question about as well as it could be answered without going full retard.

46
good news, everyone!

Jill Stein, two-timed failed MA gubernatorial candidate for the Green Party, is running for president!

47 Why must our nominees keep shooting themselves in the foot? Shoot, Ready, Aim. It's like this whole Presidential Election thing snuck up on Perry and surprised him.

48

>>As an aside, did Perry plagiarize his tax plan from Newt's plan?

the flat tax is Forbes plan and it has been around for a while. Perry just tweaked it and Forbes endorse Perry.

So no

49 This is exactly the wrong strategy.

The base already knows what's wrong with Romney. What we need to see is what's right with Perry. So far, he hasn't shown us much.

Cain and Gingrich have risen precisely because they have for the most part eschewed going negative. I predict Perry will drop further.

Perry's potential supporters are already turned off by Romney. Hitting him harder will just diminish Perry more.

50 It all adds up to a course correction that may give Perry his best shot at getting back into contention with Romney, the sometime GOP front-runner whom Perry attacked forcefully in last weekÂ’s Nevada GOP debate.

Expect plenty more where that came from, say strategists familiar with PerryÂ’s growing team.

Really?

Expect more ill-considered, desperate attacks that end up blowing up in Perry's face?

What's he got next?  Did Mitt Romney shake hands at a Fapplebee's last week that was employing a Guatemalan dishwasher in the back?

51 before not because

52 Personally I think he answered that stupid question about as well as it could be answered without going full retard.

Saying that "it's fun to keep the issue alive" isn't going full retard?

I fully supported him yesterday when he said it was a distraction. And now he's getting back into the mix with this statement.

You know this is going to come up on O'Reilley tonight.

53 When the text hits your eye like a big leaning 'I' -- that's italics.....

54 Jindal endorsed Perry because he knew Perry wasn't going to stop being the goveroor next door....

55

>>>So I suppose now would be a really, really bad time to point out that in 2008, alot of people (like, oh, I don't know, radio talk show hosts, commentors on conservative blogs, eh, others) were thinking that Mitt Romney was to the right of John McCain?

 

Come on Mallamutt, you know as well as I do that those endorsements had more to do with personal animosty against McCain than any true love for Romney or his record.

 

56 And since I absolutely fucking hate Romney and think Cain is an embarrassment to us all, I'm in a hell of a spot here.

Then go Newt, assuming he's an option in your primary and Rick isn't.  That's my plan.  If neither of those are there, I'll just content myself with voting for neither Obama nor Romney (unless something catastrophic happens, I live in TX, the Republican will carry TX) in the General.

57 Every time one of these Einsteins is on stage and starts even thinking about attacking one of their fellow candidates, s/he should stop and consider whether the exact same attack wouldn't work even better with Obama as the target.

58 I'm not totally comfortable with this approach, and I'm really pulling for Perry to resurrect himself.  I don't think it's helpful when he goes on the attack mode like he did the last debate.  While I was glad to see him getting a little more aggressive, I think he took it too far.  He'll lose people if he goes about it the wrong way.  He needs to defend himself in a sure manner from the barbs Romney has thrown, but he needs to keep a cool approach and focus on one thing: nailing Obama forcefully and continually -- and reiterating how he will be different and why.  When any of them go on the attack, it turns me off and makes them look petty, imo.  Defending yourself is one thing.  Acting like a douche is another.  It's easy to cross that line.  Course....it's only my worthless $.02. 

59 A CBS poll?  Why do I suspect the Rick Perry support question was something like "If it was proven that Rick Perry once disguised himself as a nun so he could sell dope to schoolchildren, would you still vote for him?"

60 Speak no evil of another Republican. Perry should remember that. And the enemy is obama.

61

Since this is a CBS (Continental Bullsh*t System, home of Dan Rather) poll, I take it with a whole salt mine of salt.  I find it exceedingly hard to believe that Perry is at 6 or even 10% support among Republican primary voters, and that Cain is continuing to track upwards.  I'm more inclined to believe that this is a bad poll.*

*Disclaimer--Perry supporter; but even a healthy dose of skepticism won't let me swallow those numbers.

62
Read this and you'll understand the Perry Team's thinking:

NEW YORK, Oct. 25 (UPI) -- A majority of Republican primary voters say they haven't made up their minds about who they want to be the party's U.S. presidential nominee, a poll indicates.

About eight in 10 primary voters said it was too soon to say who would receive their support, results of The New York Times/CBS News poll released Tuesday indicated.

Despite the uncertainty, only four in 10 said they were paying a lot of attention to the 2012 presidential campaign, poll results indicated.

The nation's first nominating contests begin in January.

63 God help me, I'm going to have to vote for McCain Part II, Electric Boogaloo. Somebody hold me.

64

So ... I'm all in. Who needs a clown pic for their wall?

 

Go Perry!

65 I know beedubya melted down in a bad way over Ronney. But part of me almost gets where he was coming from. What he did today in Ohio was unbelievable and inexcusable. He left Kasich blowing in the wind. He's not Obama. But he's really not much better.

I usually reserve my hatred for progressives, but I'm practically there with Romney.

66 67 God help me, I'm going to have to vote for McCain Part II, Electric Boogaloo. Somebody hold me.

Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 25, 2011 02:34 PM (RD7QR)

Move. Just. A. Little. Closer.....

67 Saying that "it's fun to keep the issue alive" isn't going full retard?

oh hell no, we can't have a candidate that thinks it is fun to poke fun at the One now can we.

68 Without ignoring the question, should Perry have said something different when ASKED about the BC? He didn't "float the BC issue".
Posted by: The Great Satan's Ghost at October 25, 2011 02:30 PM (l8iDY)

How about this?

"Yes, his birth certificate is real. So is a 9.1% unemployment rate. So is the fact that 14 million Americans are out of work. And so is the fact that this President hasn't a clue how to get this economy working again."

That's how you answer the question without floating the birther crap.

Perry made another choice and he may pay a price for it.

69 What we need to see is what's right with Perry. So far, he hasn't shown us much.

We're seeing that, too, if you're paying attention at all.  If you're just looking for things to snipe at (as some here are) then you won't see "what's right with Perry."

So I suppose now would be a really, really bad time to point out that in 2008, alot of people (like, oh, I don't know, radio talk show hosts, commentors on conservative blogs, eh, others)  were thinking that Mitt Romney was to the right of John McCain?

No.  I think that's funny, too.  There were three liberals in that primary race, there's no need to be hyperbolic about how bat Romney was.  If the choice was Romney, Huckabee, or McCain, I'd vote for Romney.

It's not, though.  The choice is Romney and (polling aside) probably Perry or Cain.  In which case, I vote for the Conservative who doesn't want to give the Government an extra way to tax me.

70
"About eight in 10 primary voter..."

That's a lotta undecideds. So Perry thinks he can get some of these people if he attacks Romney?

No, dummy. Gov Perry, you can get the undecideds by making your case for why they should support you.

71

When did primary become circle jerks?

people here seem to think they should all get on stage, mock Obama, and let the chips fall where they may.

This is a race for the party nomination. You do what you need to do to get it.

I have a feeling people here won't be poo-pooing negative attack ads on Obama, but when Republicans use them against each other in races it's a bad thing?

This is politics people.  Not only do you have to build yourself up as he's trying to do with his energy and tax plans, you also have to tear your opponent down.

Is this everyone's first go around in a political race?

72 "Yes, his birth certificate is real. So is a 9.1% unemployment rate. So is the fact that 14 million Americans are out of work. And so is the fact that this President hasn't a clue how to get this economy working again."

I agree.  It seems so simple yet none of our candidates get it yet.  Don't answer questions from the media, make them your microphone.

73  I'm REALLY hoping that when the inevitable derailment of the Cain Train occurs, Gingrich gets his support. And I don't even care for Gingrich that much.

74 HOLD  FAST

75

Jill's Vibrater at October 25, 2011 02:33 P

I agree. That is why I have Michelle and Herman do my heavy lifting for me.

76 FWIW it sounds to me like Rush is leaning toward Perry.

77

>>Oh, I know, I know I know. But still, when your buddy gets drunk and has a one-night stand with the ugly fat chick do you A) pretend it never happens or B) tease him about it every chance you get.

heh

78

Stolen from that place where we steal stuff.

Gingrich has been floating an optional flat tax for a couple of years, although it hasnÂ’t had much traction as the former Speaker hasnÂ’t gained much in polling.  HereÂ’s a brief thumbnail comparison between the two plans:

Flat tax rate — Optional in both plans; Perry’s rate is 20%, Gingrich 15%Exemptions — Perry: $12,500 per filer/dependent; Gingrich: $10-12K per adult, $1,000 per child (under 16), plus the EITCDeductions – Both retain mortgage interest and charitable donations deductionsCorporate tax rate — Perry: 20% flat; Gingrich: 12.5% flatCorporate deductions — Perry: Limited to R&D, 100% on capital investment; Gingrich: Limited to 100% on capital investmentThe biggest difference is in the treatment of capital gains. Gingrich exempts all of it from taxation; Perry only does so for long-term capital gains. Perry’s plan — according to Gingrich — still taxes short-term capital gains at 35% in some cases.
And Newt has issued a debate challenge on their flat tax plans.

79

yeah, Rick sought out my advice.

 

Deal.

80 David Freddoso (no squish he) says that Perry's Birtherism flirtation is a disqualifying event for the presidency.  Brutal: http://tinyurl.com/3vyby5r

Go ahead: support Rick Santorum now.  You know you want to.

81 “It’s a good issue to keep alive,” Perry told Harwood. “It’s fun to poke at [President Obama].”


Breaking all the windows

Just be-cause it's funnnn

Just be-cause it's funnnn

Just be-cause it's funnnn.

82 SHOW ME.

83 It seems silly for Perry to attack Romney. Romney's core is SOLID. He's got his 25% nailed down. Perry should pick on the guy who just recently sucked away his supports. He should attack Cain. THOSE supporters are in play!

84 "Perry's potential supporters are already turned off by Romney. Hitting him harder will just diminish Perry more."

How about going after Obama RIGHT NOW.  That's your actual opponent, candidates.

85 81 FWIW it sounds to me like Rush is leaning toward Perry.

Of course he is.

Rush also leaned toward Christine O'Donnell.

86 Romney doesn't even have the balls to endorse Kasich. If we nominate this idiot Obama is going to win the same way he beat McCain. Democrat vs. Democrat-Lite has never and will never.

87 Well the race was getting boring anyhow.

Go Perry

88 >>>Come on Mallamutt, you know as well as I do that those endorsements had more to do with personal animosty against McCain than any true love for Romney or his record.

And your endorsements of anyone-but-Mitt have more to do with personal animosity towards Romney than any true love for Perry/Cain/Gingrich/Santorum or their records.  Hilarious that you're capable of diagnosing the irrationality at play in 2008 but incapable of seeing the disease that's eating you out hollow right now.

89

I>>>t seems silly for Perry to attack Romney. Romney's core is SOLID. He's got his 25% nailed down. Perry should pick on the guy who just recently sucked away his supports. He should attack Cain. THOSE supporters are in play!

The race is for the Not Romney, attacking Romney can help build those bonafides.

 

Despite his current poll numbers, Mitt Romney is only spending money running against one candidate, Rick Perry.

Keep in mind that this race has had many front runners. Donald Trump, Michelle Bachmann, Mitt Romney, Rick Perry and Herman Cain.

It's not as though things have been in flux for the past few months and now they are set in stone. It will continue to change moving forward.

90 Is this everyone's first go around in a political race?

No, it's not.  I remember vividly the other shitty candidates this type of mayhem has produced for us and I'd rather not endure another ass kicking at a time when a socialist who hates America is our common opponent.

And even if it weren't Obama - who deserves an unloading upon like no other - weren't the Dems' guy, it's just plain dumb to attack only one another to the near virtual exclusion of your actual opponent.

I get the back-and-forth, just not the self-destruction.

91 (If by "leaned toward" you mean "went full-on foaming let's-lose-an-election-just-to-make-a-point".)

92
(DrewM's got an upcoming post about this.)

Get your hate on, everyone! A whole post & thread for you is on its way.

93 Dear Representative Paul: We had recessions and depressions and bubbles and busts with the gold standard and before the Fed.  Please explain how that can be, since the One Big Thing you know (you think) about economics is that manipulation of fiat money is the principal cause of such things.

I'm not a Paultard, so don't flame me, but if you're interested, there's always Rothbard's book on the history of banking. 

Basically, before the Fed, there was a patchwork of bad legislation, ranging from special laws permitting fraudulent issuance of notes; protecting failed, bankrupt banks by allowing them to "suspend specie" (which is a euphemism for allowing them to default on their notes); debasing metal currency by arbitrarily changing the standards of weights and measures; price-fixing the exchange rate between gold and silver; forced acceptance of government debt, compulsory par laws, etc. 

The Fed merely centralized and regularized the kinds of things that had been done since the invention of paper money. 

94

Perry clocks in at 6%, which isn't top tier. In fact, it's falling out of the second tier, too.

Like it or not, there are two candidates in this race, Romney and Perry.  Nobody else has the money to compete, and nobody else can find enough in time.

95 SLIM FAST

96 Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 25, 2011 02:38 PM (xOy1A)

I took a look at Newt's Comparison.  I don't have any problem with Newt's plan, at first blush (I haven't heard him explain it succinctly, though, so I need more info).  The things that make me pick Rick over Newt are a) Texan, and b) Never shared a couch with Nancy Pelosi.  Well, not by choice and on national TV, anyway.

There's more there about Newt that I'm not 100% comfortable with, too, but I can easily forget that if he's still in the race and Perry isn't.

David Freddoso (no squish he) says that Perry's Birtherism flirtation is a disqualifying event for the presidency.

I don't even know who that is.  But, even if he's a really tough conservative, that doesn't mean he's necessarily right.  It's a gamble- not one I support or would take, but a gamble.  It is certainly not a "disqualifying event."

97 You could put Christina Hendricks in a room with me naked but adorned with clown makeup. I would run, screaming like a 10 year old girl at a Justin Beiber concert, while wetting my pants. Make that flee instead of run.

98
I can't wait for the make-up sex.

99 91 Romney doesn't even have the balls to endorse Kasich.

Wittle fwaidy-cat is afwaid he might wooz some independent votes in 2012.

I swear, the guy would sell his kids into slavery if thought it would win him an extra vote.

100 It's not, though.  The choice is Romney and (polling aside) probably Perry or Cain.  In which case, I vote for the Conservative who doesn't want to give the Government an extra way to tax me.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 25, 2011 02:36 PM (8y9MW)

You buy me champagne cocktail, sailor?

101
Save some vinegar for the upcoming Romney-Kasich snub post.

102

@90: Rush Limbaugh deliver votes?

 

Rush couldn't deliver a pizza.

103

I don't see Perry attacking Romney  being as important as presenting real, serious policy intiatives, like the tax/economic information today. Just act like a leader. Not a squabbling sibling.

104 89 "Perry's potential supporters are already turned off by Romney. Hitting him harder will just diminish Perry more."

How about going after Obama RIGHT NOW.  That's your actual opponent, candidates.


Why not do both? This is a contest about who can best beat Obama, and you have to do more than just sell yourself positively versus the other candidates. So they should keep the primary focus on Obama and what they would do differently but they shouldn't be afraid of criticizing on another, as long as it's constructive.

105 How about this?

"Yes, his birth certificate is real. So is a 9.1% unemployment rate. So is the fact that 14 million Americans are out of work. And so is the fact that this President hasn't a clue how to get this economy working again."

Excellent.

Heaven help us. I'm beginning to that believe just about any AoS moron would be a better candidate than this crew.

106 The Intrade customer base is not swayed by every biased blood libel media push poll.  They have for many weeks now had Romney, Perry, and Cain in that order.

107 You buy me champagne cocktail, sailor?

Not since you went from "sort of crazy in a way that won't affect me" to full on frothing at the mouth insane.  No.

108

>>>Romney's hands-off attitude today towards the Ohio union-thug referendum on State Bill 5 is the absolute last straw for me. He truly is a snake in the grass. Dude makes me ill.  

 

He doesn't have to pander to the right in this primary and as a result he's being more honest.

He hasn't come out on the conservative side of any issue in these primaries.

He's a moderate Democrat. I would vote for Jon Huntsman in the primaries over Romney. Huntsman at least has a moderate Republican record as the gov of Utah.

 

109

Perry should run about $5 million in ads in Iowa, South Carolina, and Florida pushing his economic plans in the next few weeks starting immediately, and go into full debate planning to defend the plan hopefully last week.

He really doesn't have much time til the first votes get cast.

110
Obama: Black Obama
Romney: White Obama

Here is the Paradox

Obama: White Candidate
Cain: Black Candidate

111 >>>Mitt Romney, with all his fortune, lost to Ted Kennedy something like 58% to 41% in a scary-quote 'Republican year'. 2012 shapes up to be a huge 'Republican year' and I've got deja vu all over again. If you've got Obama and Obama-lite, the average voter may say why bother.

If the nation as a whole were as overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic as Massachusetts, and Obama were as absolutely beloved and sanctified by the voters as Kennedy was, then you might be within 3,000 miles of a point.  As neither of these things are true, you just wasted everybody's time, including your own.

112 Rush couldn't deliver a pizza.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

113 Posted by: Zombie Casey Stengel at October 25, 2011 02:43 PM (IhHdM)

Romney, for all his flaws, is nowhere near "Obama-Lite." Don't act like a HotAir commentator. And it's a pretty crazy equivocation to make to associate the behavior of Massachusetts voters towards a guy running against a state icon to American voters towards a guy running against a SCoaMF.

114 Rush couldn't deliver a pizza.

What?!  I'm pulling my ad buys.

115
pitchforks ready?

116 You know, Sarah Palin's endorsement could blow this race wide open. (Because melees are much more amusing than debates.)

117 (Because melees are much more amusing than debates.)

Spoken (written?) like a true Moron.

118 I read Drew's post, it's not kind to Romney.

119

@123: Sarah Who??

 

Sarah is utterly OVER. 

120 need a delivery????

121 122 pitchforks ready? Posted by: Soothsayer at October 25, 2011 02:48 PM (sqkOB) We're going to need multiple insult threads before the primaries are over.

122 123, I thought she already endorsed the anti-Tardasil queen

123 I would vote for Jon Huntsman in the primaries over Romney. Huntsman at least has a moderate Republican record as the gov of Utah.

Huntsman WORKED for Obama and sent him mash notes about what a great boss he was.

124 PS - I don't have any problem with people taking others ideas, they just seem so similar, I think give somebody somewhere some credit (same for Newt where he got his).  That's why I am for a flat tax plan, because I've read it and studied it and decided it was the only way.

125 Can we get a countdown clock to the DrewM scorned post?

126 >>>pitchforks ready?

I figure I should retreat to my castle in the hills and pull up the drawbridge.

A lot of people here really, really want to engage in the Orwellian "two minutes' hate."  That's really what it's been reduced to.

127 125 "Rush couldn't deliver a pizza."

Bullshit.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at October 25, 2011 02:49 PM (vbh31)

Look how much he benefited me!  I am all that I am today because of his support.

128 Sarah is utterly OVER.

It's never over.

129 Rush couldn't deliver a pizza.

Ain't seen his picture in a while, does he still look like the kind of guy who could devour a large thick crust pizza and still want more?

130

@123: Sarah Who??

>>Sarah is utterly OVER.

 

 

I disagree completely in the context of the primaries. I was/am as tired of her schtick as anyone else, but if she were to endorse Perry or Cain, it would without question result in an increase in ratings.

She still does have a loyal cadres of supporters maybe as low as 5% or as high as 15% if I had to guess.

131 Can we get a countdown clock to the DrewM scorned post?

Well count me in. Polling on this bill was already bad. Now all the libtards are cheering Romney on my local blogs.

Congrats, Romney fans. You've got a real winner in that Guy. He's going to make a real stand-up POTUS.

We're fucked.

132 <sup>Obama: Black Obama
Romney: White Obama

Here is the Paradox

Obama: White Candidate
Cain: Black Candidate</sup>

Let that be your last battlefield.

133 A lot of people here really, really want to engage in the Orwellian "two minutes' hate."  That's really what it's been reduced to.

Oh, it'll be a lot more than 2 minutes.  2 hours, maybe.

Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure, but Mitt Romney is a well-spoken clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

134 "The Fed merely centralized and regularized the kinds of things that had been done since the invention of paper money."

And they've done them so persistently, with such abandon, that we are now on the verge of the biggest bust (DOOM) in American history. The Fed has enabled something to happen which could never have happened without it (or without some very similar intervening institution).
 

135 Christine @135, Rush sometimes forgets you can't fix stupid.

136 For what's it worth Perry has a weird face. It's not pleasant. Makes him seem smaller than he is. Just like Nixon sweating at the Kennedy debates, he just doesn't come across well on TV.

137 Romney, for all his flaws, is nowhere near "Obama-Lite."

Romney had John Holdren as a Science Advisor.  He's John Kerry if he went down a different path.

138 Sarah is udderly fantastic!

139 >>>Huntsman WORKED for Obama and sent him mash notes about what a great boss he was.

Ben is literally beyond reason at this point.  He's basically doing animal rutting now.  Nothing -- and I mean absolutely nothing, including Mitt Romney personally slaying Richard Trumka with Excalibur -- would allow him to step back even slightly from his 100% pure white-hot hatred of Romney. 

140

"I suppose I'll just have to content myself with voting for Not Obama, whoever that Not Obama candidate turns out to be."

Did that in 08, it failed then too.  Until "we" decide to stand for something other than winning we will continue to lose or elect people who don't agree with us.

141 I don't see what's gained from Romney being President, except for the (R) after the name causing all the economic disasters. Can't even count on him to appoint judges that, you know, think the Constitution means what it says.

142

Judas priest, do you pundits really ever pay attention to what is being said?  Perry's Parade interviewer was trying to do a "gotcha" question on Obama's BC.  Perry told him, Trump brought it up, but he thought it was a non-issue.   Now, if I wanted to add some credibility to the "Perry's floating the birth certificate issue" the one place I would go to is the Washington Compost.  We know that they are really on top of all things Perry, including rocks.  Why not just quote the NYSlimes as gospel?  Not much difference in the two publications.  And hey, don't bother to reprint what Perry actually said.  It is not nearly as sensational as your new found meme, is it?

The only correct thing in this whole entry is that polls, at this point in an election, are pretty much useless.

143

>>>Huntsman WORKED for Obama and sent him mash notes about what a great boss he was.

Romney let Ted Kennedy help write Massachutt(e)s laws and practically gave him a public hand job when he signed the Masscare bill into law.

 Actually, I'm not even sure if that was a pen he signed it into law with.

144 137, actually no. He can afford a private chef to cook him meals on the modified low-carb plan. He's been much smaller for at least the past 5 years.

145 Instead of a debate, the GOP candidates next meeting will be a drum circle.

146 46 Without ignoring the question, should Perry have said something different when ASKED about the BC? He didn't "float the BC issue".

Personally I think he answered that stupid question about as well as it could be answered without going full retard.

--------

^This.

It's discouraging to see ace getting taken in by this media-generated non-troversy, but I assume his current attitude of resignation will blow over at some point. 

147 Because "voting Not Obama" worked so well last election.

148 These are dumb tactics.  He has to show us why we should vote for him - not vote against Romney.

149 Instead of a debate, the GOP candidates next meeting will be a drum circle. Posted by: Roy at October 25, 2011 02:54 PM (VndSC) I thought it was going to be a circular firing squad?

150 (Dear Representative Paul: We had recessions and depressions and bubbles and busts with the gold standard and before the Fed. Please explain how that can be, since the One Big Thing you know (you think) about economics is that manipulation of fiat money is the principal cause of such things.)

Not to go all Ronulan on you but....The fed was not limited to gold assets on hand when loaning money. They routinely over-leveraged their assets by issuing more currency than they had gold to cover it, this helped growth but led to the various minor recessions, and the few lessor depressions leading to the Great Depression. In the great depression however, more over-leveraged than they ever had been, demands to withdraw gold drove the Fed's asset balance to the legal minimum. At which point the banking holiday, the BRA, and EO 6073,6102 was basically a monetary default.

So yes Ace *YOU* are correct in that the conditions for abuse exist whether or not you have a gold standard, and the real problem is over-leveraging not the currency standard you use. Paul is correct in that the less than prudent policies and practices of the Fed were the approximate cause of the depressions prior to the fiat system, as well as the 70's professional grade recession, and a lot of blame for our current great recession (Though a lot of people conspired to bake that pie), and that a new standard could be used to limit the Feds ability to wreck our economy through poor monetary policy.

It can be argued that fighting the GD by going to a fiat system and massively inflating the currency exacerbated the problem by prolonging the contraction and lengthening the GD. And I know that things aren't real bad right now, but if all that funny money the Fed dumped into the banking system ever makes it to the streets you might see exactly why no boundaries on your currency can be Wiemar bad.

No I do not support Paul for Pres.

151 Huntsman WORKED for Obama and sent him mash notes about what a great boss he was.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 25, 2011 02:50 PM (d3TgT)

Still better than Romney. Huntsman at least has honesty. But keep trying to keep mitt fever alove. He can't even defend Kasich on PEU reform. I swear he would sell his wife into slavery if it gave him the presidency. He is worth the gum on the bottom of my shoe. romney that is

152 Mitt Romney is a smug, patrician asswipe.

153 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure, but Mitt Romney is a well-spoken clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

¡Estoy un clusterf*ck el dormir de una falta desgraciada!

154 So I should wait for the Hammer Romney thread or can I hammer Romney now?

155 As for Huntsman v Romney, Huntsman's record is more conservative, working for Obama notwithstanding.  I loathe the guy, but I have yet to see a substantive criticism of what Huntsman did as ambassador to China that showed him to be anything other than what we kind of already knew about him.  In fairness, I haven't seen anything he did that pulled Obama to the right, either, but I certainly haven't seen what he did that erases his conservative creds in Utah. 

156 Because "voting Not Obama" worked so well last election. Posted by: Darel Finkbeiner at October 25, 2011 02:54 PM (Z1WKS) Because this commie bastard is turning out to be just the nightmare many of us expected and we must get rid of him NOW. Then you want to have a blood bath and purify the party, be my quest. But not now.

157 It's discouraging to see ace getting taken in by this media-generated non-troversy, but I assume his current attitude of resignation will blow over at some point.

Yeah, I thought 'F* if I know I've got more important things to worry about than giving a S* about this' was a good answer.

158

These guys bore me when they attack each other.

m'Bonga should be the target.

Bye the by, Hows my guy doing?  AnyoneButObama's the man.  AnyRomneyButObama is possible, but AnyFootFungusButObama if necessary.

159

Vote your choice in the primary. Vote GOP nominee in the general AGAINST Obama.

Simple solution.

160 Ben is literally beyond reason at this point.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 25, 2011 02:53 PM (bbxN5)

As usual Jeff, you're projecting.

161 This just proves how desperate Perry may, or may not, be.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at October 25, 2011 02:28 PM (Sh42X)

ROTFL

Fucking funny.

162 Still better than Romney. Huntsman at least has honesty. But keep trying to keep mitt fever alove. He can't even defend Kasich on PEU reform. I swear he would sell his wife into slavery if it gave him the presidency. He is worth the gum on the bottom of my shoe. romney that is
Posted by: Flapjackmaka says Mitt rhymes with sh*t at October 25, 2011 02:55 PM (Xqsad)

Kid, go cast your first vote next year, and then I might be interested in anything you have to say.

163 if Perry can claw his way back to the top, that's great. If he can't but manages to drag Mittens down into the abyss with him i'll take that too.

164

What the hell is Perry thinking? Okay, I get it, he's desperate, but still. No issue--not even serious entitlement reform--is more toxic to a GOP candidate than the Birther fringe issue, either in the primaries or the general election. It's a radioactive minefield guarded by honey badgers with lasers, a single misstep political oblivion.

165 Mitt Romney could be a great American, if he was seeking the Democrat Party nomination.

166

Not Obama??

Hillary!!1!

167 These are dumb tactics.  He has to show us why we should vote for him - not vote against Romney.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 25, 2011 02:55 PM (f9c2L)

Yes, he should be like Mitt.  You know, running around screaming "Perry Scheme!" and saying Rick Perry is trying to rape grandma.

This article should really be titled, "Perry planning to respond to Mitt in kind."

168 He has to show us why we should vote for him - not vote against Romney.

How about: A flat tax plan than has a prayer of passing congress.  Calling for a balanced budget amendment.  Reducing corporate income tax, eliminating the estate tax and capital gains taxes.  Reducing the Dept Ed and EPA (among others)?

Would that be a good reason to vote for him?

How about an energy plan that brings as much energy production to the US as possible?  One that streamlines the permitting process to build new power infrastructure (mostly power plants, but I'm pretty sure new refineries are in there, too)?  One that reduces the ability of third parties to sue the government to delay the construction of said power infrastructure?

Would that be a good reason to vote for him?

And that's before we get to vetoing ObamaCare, entitlement reform, and a whole host of other things he's said as well.

169 A desperate choice for desperate times.

170

It seems that there has been some sort of process failure here. We have a set of candidates that no one seems happy with. The same thing happened in at least the last 2 cycles too. That i sortof understand 2008 as it was shaping up as bad year to be the nominee.

But i don't think that is the case this cycle. I think we need to figure out Why we're not getting candidates that are (in some sort of order of importance)

by-and-large conservative (un-like Romney Huntsman, Trump)

Experienced (unlike Cain Trump Bachmann

Not fring-y (Bachmann Paul, Trump)

Unbaggaged (Gingrich)

Appealing (Santorum)

I thought Pawlenty seem to avoid those traps. But TPaw is long gone, and the other 2 candidates to pass the first tests are 2nd/3rd tier.

Why are we not winnowing down the field to get center-right candidates with executive/Washington experience, lacking in weirdness or embarrassing history who are likeable.

Is that some sort of impossible set of qualifications?

 

 

171

So we're in a process now of choosing who seems the weakest and/or who offends us the least.

brb poking that supervolcano in Bolivia with a stick

 

172 I can't be reasoned into supporting Romney because I wasn't reasoned out of it.  He just gives me the creepy politician vibe.  He's probably a fine husband and father and all that but as a politician, he leaves me cold.

I'll still vote for him if it comes to that though.

ABO.

173 @177, @178
+2

174 Barack Obama - заикание clusterf*ck несчастного отказа,

175 Nothing -- and I mean absolutely nothing, including Mitt Romney personally slaying Richard Trumka with Excalibur -- would allow him to step back even slightly from his 100% pure white-hot hatred of Romney.

I might be able to get behind Romney......If I could figure out where the F* he was standing.

176 Posted by: Soothsayer at October 25, 2011 02:34 PM

Being one of the 80% who are undecided -- well, at least between two candidates, with some open space for a third if he shows me some willingness to act instead of simply pontificating -- I'm not impressed or convinced by anyone's negative attacks on the other Repub candidates.

I want Perry (and Cain) to keep on telling me why I should vote for them, not how awful Mutt Romney is. I've already figured that one out.

Likewise, every time one of the bloggies starts in on the "Perry is a birfer!" crap, or slams Cain "because fuck you," that turns me off. If there is something that actually disqualifies either man, let them drag it out or forever hold their peace. I'd have more respect for them if they simply said "vote for Mutt Romney" or "we'd be happier if William F Buckley (or the Pope) was running" or even "let's look again at T-Paw."

Barry Goldwater was a crappy candidate. I remember that. But he would have been one hell of a good president, certainly better than LBJ.

But, like Goldwater, the possible good candidates are being flushed down the pan by "pundits" and party "elites" who'd really rather have One of Their Own running.

177

"Vote your choice in the primary. Vote GOP nominee in the general AGAINST Obama.

Simple solution."

 

The establishment R's (read: The problem) knows this and moneys up thier man early.  Hard for grassroots to survive this way.  Only way to make it fair is to put the fear of GOD into the est. by letting them know we will not vote for just any asshole they put in front of us just because they have a R behind thier name.

178 A flat tax plan than has a prayer of passing congress.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 25, 2011 02:59 PM (8y9MW)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, I like the guy a lot, but his plan is identical to Cain's in that it will never have a chance in hell of passing Congress.

179 Vote your choice in the primary. Vote GOP nominee in the general AGAINST Obama.

Simple solution."

 

that's fine and I'm sure everyone here will do that, but let's get our Not Obama candidate first.

That's what this whole process is.

180 Perry should just go away. He's hurting te whole party now. Cain/Romney will endorse each other if one falters. There is no way to overcome that. I think Newt will back Romney too if Perry goes hard negative. He's done if his only strategy is scorched earth. And he will drag down the entire GOP.

181
Kid, go cast your first vote next year, and then I might be interested in anything you have to say.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 25, 2011 02:57 PM (d3TgT)

 

Go to mitt romney central. I'll never care what you have to say.

182 Posted by: flyonthewall at October 25, 2011 03:01 PM (aZ7lL)

Right, it would be a much better idea to have four more years of Obama than an "impure" candidate.

183 Likewise, every time one of the bloggies starts in on the "Perry is a birfer!" crap, or slams Cain "because fuck you," that turns me off.

+1
It is bizarre to me that rather than do a post analyzing Perry's plan - or Newt's for that matter - we are treated to this.  I mean, it's not even really campaign analysis.  It's just being led by the nose by a meme being pushed on the strength of two interviewers who were determined to get Perry to comment on this non-subject. 

184 Barack Obama είναι μια διακεκομμένη clusterf * ck μια θλιβερή αποτυχία

185 How about: A flat tax plan

Bzzzt.


than has a prayer of passing congress. 

Bzzzt.


Calling for a balanced budget amendment.

Bzzzt.  (Though if Perry "calls" for other fantastic things from another world, like free blowjobs for all from Christina Hendricks, I might listen.)

186 PORNO!!

187 Posted by: MrScribbler at October 25, 2011 03:01 PM (YjjrR)

See my post @178.


And don't forget the limiting government spending to 18% GDP (which, if I seem to recall, was real popular around here some time ago)
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at October 25, 2011 03:01 PM (OWjjx)

I wasn't hitting all the points, just the first few that rattled off the top of my head.

188

I love Romney so much omg. HE IS THE BEST.

He is one of the conservative juggernauts that America has been waiting for!!!!!!!!!! After voting for Obama in 2012 and Kerry in 2004, I now know MITT is the one.

189 As long as we do well in Congress, I'm surprisingly OK with an Obama victory.

Sometimes, idiots need to get everything they want before they wise up.

190 149 "I suppose I'll just have to content myself with voting for Not Obama, whoever that Not Obama candidate turns out to be."

Did that in 08, it failed then too.  Until "we" decide to stand for something other than winning we will continue to lose or elect people who don't agree with us.

So who should be running that isn't? Everyone who isn't running was crossed-off the list by the base for electability reasons and/or a policy matter which now looks smaller in light of Romney's positions. For example, the initial reason people were opposed to Mitch Daniels running was because he's balding and boring. Doesn't look so important now, does it?

191 I don't like Perry, but even so I think going after Romney hard is probably a bad idea.  Much better to go after Obama hard, while still reminding people what they already know about Romney.

192 Only way to make it fair is to put the fear of GOD into the est. by letting them know we will not vote for just any asshole they put in front of us just because they have a R behind thier name.

Did that in '08.  Can't say they seem to have learned their lesson.  Ditto for '10.

Unless things turn around fast in the GOP, there will probably be a third party by '14.  If not sooner.

193

>> 152 Actually, I'm not even sure if that was a pen he signed it into law with.

Eye bleach plllleeeaaasssssee!

194 BTW, the source of the Perry attack strategy is Politico. 

195 Perry didn't collapse because he failed to go after Romney.  He failed because of the embarrassingly bad debate performances.

His attacks aren't going to convince the blood blood wing and the conservative wing is already wary/weary of Romney.  Perry going after Romney aggressively I see as serving no helpful purpose to anyone but Obama, by writing his future commercials for him and disillusioning the base.  Not to jump to conclusions but his new strategy is starting to sound like the Huckabee path.... that didn't turn out well for anyone not named Huckabee.

I thought Perry's energy and tax plan was a great step.  (Campaign wise they probably should have been released a few weeks earlier to offset the debate slumps... maybe they weren't ready yet?)

196

180 I forgot to mention Perry somehow. Clearly he simply was not prepared for the process since he hadn't planned to run. So why did he not GET prepared over the last 2 years? It's not like he has a tough day job.

Did Obama look so imposing that people didn't see the opportunity in 2012?

 

 

197 BTW, the source of the Perry attack strategy is Politico. 

Ah, the stenographers of the DNC.

198 "But, like Goldwater, the possible good candidates are being flushed down the pan by "pundits" and party "elites" who'd really rather have One of Their Own running." ___ Tired of this myth. They are being flushed by their own ineptitude, idiocy and incompetence. Its no conspiracy. How about not saying dumb things, demonstrating a little humility, and articulating a positive message.

199 I'm doing MY part!

200 Mitt just needs a campaign tag.  How about:

Romney:  Tackling Entitlements will be easier than cleaning up Massachusetts.

Meh, no.  People will probably realize that isn't true.  Okay:

Romney:  John Holdren and Planned Parenthood's kind of conservative

Yikes!  How's about:

Romney:  When your dog positively, absolutely has to be there overnight.

I think we got a winner.

201 I remember back when Rick Perry was relevant.

202 Have you read mitt romney's plan? It's basically a bunch of nothing.  This is it basically: Elect me and I'll work with democrats sometime in the future.

203 BTW, the source of the Perry attack strategy is Politico.

The Hill was actually the first ones to report the "it's fun to poke" story.

Dumbest. Move. Yet.

204 Fap Fap Fap Fap

205
Perry attacking anyone but the JEF is a bad idea. He will be out-tongue-lashed  buy Romney any day of the week. Perry aught to stick to FastnFurious, Gulf Oil Prohibitions, EPA power grabs etc.

206 Seriously, I like the guy a lot, but his plan is identical to Cain's in that it will never have a chance in hell of passing Congress.

I didn't say it was a good chance, just a chance.

More seriously- it does have a chance.  At least, it does if we also send solid conservatives to Congress as well.  There is nothing I've seen in the plan that is at all hard to defend, and most of it should sell really well.  When I realized that I (not exactly poor, but hardly in the top tax bracket) would see a nice reduction in my taxes, that was pretty awesome.

Though if Perry "calls" for other fantastic things from another world,

Good Lord, War, are you being obstinate for fun?  (If so, that's okay, I'm just checking)  Here is a candidate for President seriously calling for the kind of reforms we clamor for all the time- but now they're not realistic?  What?

And he is calling for a flat tax plan- it's a "phased in" flat tax, but it's a flat tax.  And, based on my napkin-math calculations, I think it will get a lot more participation than some are saying here, even while it is optional.

207 In spite of his obvious and numerous flaws, I'm starting to look at Newt again.  Romney has been dead to me for a long time.  This is truly an interesting primary season.

208 Mitt sucks like a supermassive black hole.

209 I'm doing MY part!

Posted by: Flapjackmaka's First Pubic Hair at October 25, 2011 03:08 PM (d3TgT)

 

I take it I win then? Cant even defend your candidate while you're talking about pubes.

I hear Mitt sucked Ted Kennedy's dick the night Romneycare passed.

210 @218
I mean the Perry campaign strategy. 


Again, if someone asks you something three times and you've already established that the BC is a big nothing issue to you, what is so damaging about Perry's response?

211 Good Lord, War, are you being obstinate for fun?

Why not?  Rick Perry just told us that's his plan going forward. 

212

I hear Mitt sucked Ted Kennedy's dick the night Romneycare passed.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka says Anybody but Mutt Romney at October 25, 2011 03:10 PM (Xqsad)

I am to the left of Ted Kennedy on gay rights!

213 220
Perry attacking anyone but the JEF is a bad idea.

And yet somehow, magically, Romney's attacks on Perry were fine and dandy. 

214 I can't defend Mitt. Lets talk about pubes.

215 How about not saying dumb things, demonstrating a little humility, and articulating a positive message. Posted by: Winning at October 25, 2011 03:07 PM

How about "Mitt Romney!!eleventy!11!!"

That good enough for ya?

I have been "articulating a positive message" but you read what you want to read into it (which is how we get some of the slams on Perry and Cain).

If asking candidates to tell me why I should vote for them, and asking them not to tell me why their opponent is a Big Dummy Who Hates Kids and Ice Cream and Apple Pie is not positive, I guess I'm not positive.

216

LINCOLN-DOUGLAS STYLE DEBATE

The Tea Party has expressed interest in hosting a Lincoln-Douglas style debate between Rick Perry & Mitt Romney. 

http://tinyurl.com/3ou4j4r

If Rick Perry wants to get back in competition, he should embrace such an invitation.

 

 

217 Why not?  Rick Perry just told us that's his plan going forward. 

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 25, 2011 03:11 PM (d3TgT)

And screaming "Perry Scheme!" and saying Rick Perry is trying to kill seniors is statesmanlike behavior I suppose.

218 "But, like Goldwater, the possible good candidates are being flushed down the pan by "pundits" and party "elites" who'd really rather have One of Their Own running."

Suggesting that an FDA approved vaccine causes mental disability without some real evidence to back it up?

Not understanding the basics of foriegn policy, or freedom of religion, and, wanting a VAT and pulling out the race card at MSM command?

Believing a society that espouses the virtues of suicide bombing should have nuclear weapons?

Sounds like they had hands on the flush lever themselves.

219 180 ...Why are we not winnowing down the field to get center-right candidates with executive/Washington experience, lacking in weirdness or embarrassing history who are likeable.

Is that some sort of impossible set of qualifications?

Who do we have right now who fits all those qualifications and has the resources to run? It has usually been so in politics that the people who should be running don't and the people who shouldn't do.

220 what is so damaging about Perry's response?

Well why not just go after the transcripts only? His comment would have been fine minus the BC crap.

Yesterday it was trivial.
Today it's 'fun to poke'.

???

Makes no damn sense. O'Reilley will shred him over this tonight.

221

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 25, 2011 03:08 PM (FkKjr)

How about

Romney:  If You Can Think It, He'll Believe It

222

I have stumbled on what I believe to be a foolproof way to get the economy moving again.  Megyn Kelly wears ultra-short school girl uniform on air every day.  IÂ’m pretty sure it will work.  Worth a try.

223 Why not?  Rick Perry just told us that's his plan going forward.

Like I said, just checking.

224 The Salamander is 98 and 44/100 % obvious and nunerous flaws.

225
>>And yet somehow, magically, Romney's attacks on Perry were fine and dandy.

Perry is fine to hold defensive positions but he needs to be offensive with the JEF till it hurts.

226

 Flapjackmaka says Anybody but Mutt Romney at October 25, 2011 03:10 PM

Still upset about Sarah aren't you?

227 Well, Rick could just pull a Romney and refuse to answer the question, but somehow I doubt Perry would be given the same slack on that sort of thing that Mitt enjoys.


I honestly don't see what's wrong about Perry telegraphing that he has no respect for Obama. 

228 202 As long as we do well in Congress, I'm surprisingly OK with an Obama victory. Sometimes, idiots need to get everything they want before they wise up. Posted by: sandy burger at October 25, 2011 03:05 PM (HfydS) So as long as we make a pleasant-looking corpse you're okay with the cancer?

229

Meet Mitt Romney, your defacto Republican nominee unless you choose otherwise.

 

http://tinyurl.com/5r8qj3f

230 At the moment, if Perry attacks anyone it needs to be Cain

231 Posted by: MrScribbler at October 25, 2011 03:12 PM (YjjrR) I was talking about the candidates sticking their foot in their mouths and being inarticulate. They flop because they suck. Yet, some try to find some conspiracy to excuse their ineptitude. I'm just sick of blaming the sucky performances of sucky candidates on the "establishment". Starting to sound like Alex Jones.

232 So on the strength of Politico's reporting of Perry's grand campaign strategy and absent any evidence from this morning's speech, we are declaring Perry DOA for the umpteenth time, is that it? 

233 Though if Perry "calls" for other fantastic things from another world,

At this point any policy that calls for a balanced budget in 10 years, and us not falling apart economically and socially leading to a dissolution of the Republic is a "fantastic thing from another world"; at this point the election is like buying a lottery ticket, we have only such a sliver of chance that we *might* win so we might as well dream big.

234 Bill O will yell and scream at him tonigh

He does this every night being the blowhard he is. Personally I think Perry does just fine in interviews. But I see O'Reilley going after all the trivial shit like this - and Perry will most likely bumble through this.

He still has my support. But he has got to let this BC issue go. Immediately. Hit him hard on the transcripts - why not? It's fair game and it's certainly going to be an issue if (yes, BIG IF) Perry is the nominee.

235 Makes no damn sense. O'Reilley will shred him over this tonight.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at October 25, 2011 03:13 PM

You watch O'Reilly?

Damn, you have a high tolerance level for egomaniacal horsecrap!

Actually, anything that incenses BOR makes me smile. Plus I think the Perry = birfer thing is way overblown.

236

Still upset about Sarah aren't you?

Posted by: Dick Nixon at October 25, 2011 03:15 PM (kaOJx)

over it. I'm on the anybody but romney train now.

237 Perry presser at 3:30 EST

Listen up you heartless bastards

238 Yesterday it was trivial.
Today it's 'fun to poke'.

The two are not mutually exclusive.  And, as with the Parade article, I have some reservations about the WaPo article.  For one thing, all they quote is "it's fun to poke" (well, yes, it's more than that, but not enough for any actual context).

If I were Perry (I'm not, nor do I want to be) my position on Barack Obama's birth certificate would go like this:  First time they ask: "I think it's probably legit."  Second time (in the same interview): "Well, I'm not sure.  It certainly seems strange to me that he'd keep it hidden that long.  But I'm sure he had his reasons."  Third time: "Well, I'm not an expert- but I've heard some arguments that suggest it isn't real.  I don't know how if those people are experts either, though, and it's really not an issue, is it?"

But I would never, ever voluntarily bring it up.  Make them ask.  Then I still get to needle the President, and every time they say I'm "making birther attacks" or whatever, I can simply produce the full transcript of the interview.

239 235

240 So on the strength of Politico's reporting of Perry's grand campaign strategy

Yeah really.  I just went and read the article and it's got nothing at all from the campaign.  Nothing.  Just speculation from outsiders.

We got played, again.

241 I ain't worried about these "news" polls. They all suck.

242 As an aside, did Perry plagiarize his tax plan from Newt's plan?

It's not plagiarism, I know what plagiarism looks like.

243 Perry has to attack Romney. It's the only way he'll get MSM coverage. He attacks and then says "But I'll do this!" The only time the MSM covers conservatives is when they think they can get them to say something bad about another Republican or something that's they think is going to look stupid, see how they question Cain, see the birther questions to Perry. The MSM will simply not play a 30 second soundbite of a "positive message" during their lunch time news updates, which is where most people hear about candidates.

244 @258
Yep, this is ridiculous. 

Time for a break, I guess. 

245 Serious question:
If someone is as inept at conducting a campaign as Perry appears to be, at what point do you conclude that he has been lucky in being a governor of Texas, and he simply isn't up to the larger task of the presidency?  There are parts of his plan that I like, but I need to see evidence that he can play at this level, and thus far, I haven't. 

246

If he ends up hurting Romney beyond repair - that is unforgivable. I like and respect both men and want the one who can beat Obama to win.

Perry needs to grow up.

Perry needs to win wihtout the scorched earth. Peery needs to win on his own without the bashing.

247 As for that birther shit, we put that to bed. He essentially said he doesn't know and doesn't give a shit.

248

Perry Attacks Romney - Obama wins. DNC/ MSM wins.

249 208 Well, if we got a Daniels/Trump ticket, I guess the hair thing would balance out!

LOL. Seriously, though, I think some people were overlooked for some rather superficial reasons (e.g., Bobby Jindal) and we're left with a primary season in which voters have been flocking to the savior of the month. 

250 We really need an insult thread. Maybe we'll exhaust all the combinations in the Shakespearean Insult Generator.

251

Seriously, I like the guy a lot, but his plan is identical to Cain's in that it will never have a chance in hell of passing Congress.

Yes, yes, and yes.   Perry and Cain have both cynically advanced gimmicky, non-serious plans that they have no intention of pushing if elected.  Perry has made the mistake of larding his plan up with way too much stuff and making it too complicated.  Advantage: Cain. 

If you're going to pander, pander.

252 From my comfy chair, Perry's path to the nomination

-Find a way to fix the debate issue.  If a barstool/chair/backbrace is needed.. do it!

-Keep releasing solid straight shooting Policy stuff like the energy and Tax plan.  Cains plan clearly needed more time in the oven and not even Romney talks about his 50+ point plan.

-Pull a "Sister Soulja" moment against the small but vocal group among your supporters attacking Mormons on unrelated theological grounds.  In a nation of 300+ million people Protestants are 51+% of the country Mormons are less then 1%.  Playing the "Victim" card is disingenuous and ridiculous and will chafes GOP primary voters more then almost anything.

-Once the Campaign has made the above improvements start pressuring Bachmann and Santorum to leave.

-Then Start leaking possible VP picks to assuage the part of the base skeptical of you.  Like Reagan did with Bush Sr. and W. Bush did with Cheney.

-Playing a straight solid game while Cain collapses and others leave should keep him even and maybe ahead of Romneys safe 25% as others start to leave the field.  With no big leaps he could enter Iowa as a safe first or second place just like McCain did.



*Cain better get his crap together

*Rubio better be boning up readying for the Palin treatment.  The FruadstreamMedia will start sacrificing their own children to their demon gods before they let Rubio anywhere near the white house.  He is game over for multi generations for the socialist left.  They didnt see Reagan coming.... they aren't going to be caught off guard with Rubio.

Anyway those are my thoughts.

253 Mitt is smug in the idea that the GOP dead weight in charge has blessed him. I want to see that smug smile wiped off his RINO face. I want to see desperation. I want to see sweat beads popping from his carefully made up brow. I want to see blood oozing from his pores.

254 Posted by: Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:21 PM (O7ksG)

So should Romney stop attacking Perry, and take down his website devoted specifically to attacking Perry?  After all, you respect both of them and want whichever one can beat Obama to win.

255 I will support any of the Republican candidates despite my differences on one or two issues -- if I am convinced that they honestly believe in the 10th Amendment.  This means I will support any of the current candidates except Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum (and maybe not Bachmann either).

256

Second look at a brokered convention?

Oh, look whose mustache has a column about dealing with Iran:

http://tinyurl.com/3npvx4p

I hope it's part of a greater running mate audition.

257 Specifically, from time to time I see someone argue that the lateness of Perry's economic plan doesn't matter because Romney's came later than this relative to his announcement.  So what?  The fact is that Romney now has the perception of having been ready to go and Perry is always playing catch up, or responding to the other guy, rather than driving events like a leader does.  This is regardless of what you think of the respective plans. 

258

If he ends up hurting Romney beyond repair - that is unforgivable. I like and respect both men and want the one who can beat Obama to win.

Perry needs to grow up.

Perry needs to win wihtout the scorched earth. Peery needs to win on his own without the bashing.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:20 PM (O7ksG)

 

I hope it hurts romney beyond repair. I want him out of public life for good. He can sip scotch at one of his 120 houses somewhere. I dont respect mitt romney.

259

235 Who do we have right now who fits all those qualifications and has the resources to run? It has usually been so in politics that the people who should be running don't and the people who shouldn't do.

-----

Shouldn't resources flow to candidates with those qualifications? That's part of the process failure i think.

2008 McCain

2000 Bush

1996 Dole

1988 Bush

1980 Reagan

1976 Ford

1968 Nixon

1964 Goldwater

1960 Nixon

Nine competitive primaries over 50 years

 

5 squishes

2 paranoid (or 1 paranoid twice)

1 score

260

Romney has been getting the Obama treatment thus far in the primaries.

I look forward to delving into his record as governor and constant position changes.

261 There are parts of his plan that I like, but I need to see evidence that he can play at this level, and thus far, I haven't.

Okay fine, buuuuuut....

What evidence is there that any of them can play at this level?

We're told our strongest candidate is Romney. Who lost to that loser McCain. Fanfuckingtastic. I love the logic amongst some.

262 Re: the BC: I'm sick and tired of the Taboo Presidency. You can't talk about anything with this guy.

What the hell is Perry, a document expert?  Why ask him?

Does the MSM so distrust Obama that they have to ask a GOP presidential candidate for his opinion?  Is that the standard now?

Here is a guy whose transcripts were ILLEGALLY released and I still have not heard of anybody being sent to prison over that yet.  Anybody?  Anybody?

Whereas President Douchebag takes 3 years to trot out his BC and suddenly everything is all kosher.  The Law & Order crew would have had President Douchebag indicted on suspicion of forging documents on the 3-year delay alone.

263

"new group of media consultants known for their brass-knuckled tactics and sharp read on the GOP base."

 

otherwise known as "Perry's TEA Party pander Party"

 

i ain't buying it, he's record speaks for itself, he's only slightly less statist than Romney.

just remember folks - only real conservs are crazy, the pretend ones are the only "viable" ones.

and now Ace goes to bat for the Fed.? ( is one allowed to hate the Fed and Ron Paul?)

what happened to the blog i loved?

 

264 258 So on the strength of Politico's reporting of Perry's grand campaign strategy

Yeah really.  I just went and read the article and it's got nothing at all from the campaign.  Nothing.  Just speculation from outsiders.

We got played, again.


It's Politico. They love speculation that riles conservatives.

265 Who do we have right now who fits all those qualifications and has the resources to run? It has usually been so in politics that the people who should be running don't and the people who shouldn't do.

What irritates me about the anti-Romney frenzy (much of which long ago lost any tether to reality) is that Romney is the only candidate in the entire field who has been doing what is necessary to run a serious, winning campaign for POTUS.  He's been planning, organizing, lining up money and support for years.  He's even made one failed run for the nomination already.  Reagan went through all of this too, before he finally won in '80.

Rick Perry jumped in at the last possible moment.  We knew that at the time.  What we've discovered (or been reminded of) over the ensuing two months is that jumping into the race at the last moment with an on-the-fly campaign simply doesn't work.  Perry's campaign has truly been one of the most hapless things I've ever seen.  The also-rans were never really serious about this.  (Cain, I believe, truly never expected to be where he is now, and hasn't even bothered filing in primary states yet.)  But it's not Mitt Romney's fault that nobody else took this thing seriously enough to work for it back when they needed to.

It's way too late for everybody to be figuring all of this out.

266 238 Can she also eat a banana....slowly, ever so slowly

267 Perry needs to "attack" Mitt by aligning Mitt's positions with Obama and the cluster*&^% this administration has been.  Two birds, one stone and all that.  

268 #271 is good advice.

269

Perry needs to win wihtout the scorched earth. Peery needs to win on his own without the bashing.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:20 PM (O7ksG)

 

Yeah, it is totally unfair for Perry to try and retaliate in kind for the shitbag lying smears that Romney and Bachmann pulled in the prior debates. 

270

Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:21 PM

So you were here raising hell about the hatchet job rolled on Perry by Romney/Bachman/Cain?

 

271 Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 25, 2011 03:25 PM (d3TgT)

BTW, hows about that unpopular Bobby Jindal?

272 All kneel before King Mittens.

273 266 As for that birther shit, we put that to bed. He essentially said he doesn't know and doesn't give a shit.

"We" did nothing of the sort.  And even if "we" had, Perry just woke it up and married it.

274

If Perry were neck and neck with Romney - I'd say go for it.  Perry is way back. He sucks at debates and we need someone to take on Obama -AND DEBATE HIM. Right now Romney, Newt and Cain are all ready to debate Obama. Perry? Not so much. He's too imature and twangy Texan.

Still, I like his tax ideas. They are bold.

 

275 Perry has made the mistake of larding his plan up with way too much stuff and making it too complicated.  Advantage: Cain.

What?  Really?

The Perry plan is pathetically simple:  Do your taxes on the new form (takes roughly 30 minutes on a bad day).  If that's more than you paid under the old plan, file the old way.  If it's the same or less, save yourself hours of aggravation (and possible a tidy sum of money in prep costs) and file your taxes on a post-card.

That adds, tops, one step to the current scheme- and has the benefit of a) not raising taxes on the "poor" (yes, I know, but try to get elected running on the platform of "You 50% who don't pay taxes will be expected to pay taxes!") and b) not giving the Government an extra way to tax me.

And Cain's "plan" gets murkier by the day- as people slam one more part of it, and he has to come up with some fix for that, too.

That doesn't even include the fact that Perry's plan- beyond taxation- also includes specific steps to reign in the government.

276 BTW, hows about that unpopular Bobby Jindal?

I wouldn't know.  Nobody around here sees him much.

277

“IÂ’ve told my administration to keep looking every single day for actions we can take without Congress, steps that can save consumers money, make government more efficient and responsive, and help heal the economy. And weÂ’re going to be announcing these executive actions on a regular basis,” the president said.

Why do I post that quote (from just this past Monday, I might add)?  Because my stand on all of this is simple:

I'll vote for who I want to vote for in the primary, and my mind's not made up yet. But I'll vote for whoever the Repub nominee is in the general, because this country WILL NOT survive four more years of this stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable, hateful, evil FAILURE.

278 What irritates me about the anti-Romney frenzy (much of which long ago lost any tether to reality)

This gets mentioned a lot, then you start mentioning all the horribles in Romney's record and it ain't the Mitt side that looks delusional.

Ultimately You're saying it should be Mitt because it's his turn.  He's got the men of quality lined up behind him.  I get the impression you don't like primaries very much and wish our betters would just select a candidate.

279 Romney has been getting the Obama treatment thus far in the primaries.

I doubt that.  I read an interview with Axelrod this morning, in which he went out of his way to describe Romneycare as the foundation for OCare.  Forget your opinion of the latter, he is doing that to weaken what they perceive as their strongest potential opponent, so that they won't have to run against him. 

Lacey at 280-
@284 answered your question well. 

280

Perry needs to win wihtout the scorched earth. Peery needs to win on his own without the bashing.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:20 PM (O7ksG)

Every good rice farmer knows, you want a good crop, burn the last one.

Whatever Perry gives him, he'll get 10 times worse from team Chicago. Getting the scorching done now will put the issues behind him when it comes to the general. In a sense should Romney win the nom, every thing Perry hits him with now is a favor.

I rather he be nowhere near the oval office but if this 16 faced technocrat is going to be our nom, and thank God that is still far from a sure thing, I want him as pummeled as we can possibly make him.

281 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 25, 2011 03:30 PM (FkKjr)

'ain't' should be 'is'.  I give up on that post.  Move along.

282

I'm being practical and realistic. The media would love a Perry win. That's why everyone (ahem - the media) is piling on Romney-- and the base including Rush are falling for it.

Too bad. We could beat Obama if we didn't feel the need for scorched earth and conservative purity. But oh well - here we go.

Note: this doesnÂ’t mean I donÂ’t like Perry. I still donÂ’t think he can win in the general.

 

283 I'm being practical and realistic. The media would love a Perry win. That's why everyone (ahem - the media) is piling on Romney

If the media were piling on Romney, the 'dog story' would be front and center.  That will only get attention once Romney wins the general.

284

That didn't work here in CO - when Jane Norton killed off Ken Buck and then Michael Bennett(D) who had all sorts of dirty democrat money killed off Ken Buck. Scorched earth. It backfires.

285 Ultimately You're saying it should be Mitt because it's his turn.

No.  I'm saying if he gets the nomination it'll be because he actually worked for it.

286 Posted by: Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:32 PM (O7ksG)

Where is the media 'piling on Romney?'  I've seen no evidence of it.  None at all.  The closest I've seen is the administration saying what Conservatives have already said: that ObamaCare is based on RomneyCare.

287

Here, lemme unpack that BS that JEF is slinging.

“IÂ’ve told my administration to keep looking every single day for actions we can take without Congress [because democracy is inefficient and I am a totalitarian at heart], steps that can save consumers money [because the government will be giving them more of other people's money], make government more efficient and responsive [by growing it to Brobdingnagian proportions because more employees can ignore your please for help your questions even faster], and help heal the economy. And weÂ’re going to be announcing these executive actions on a regular basis [because I discovered that 'Imperial Presidency' shit I used to rag on Busg about is actually pretty cool],” the president said.

That's about right.

Oh, and Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

288 What irritates me about the anti-Romney frenzy (much of which long ago lost any tether to reality) is that Romney is the only candidate in the entire field who has been doing what is necessary to run a serious, winning campaign for POTUS. 

We get that.  But surely you can appreciate why so many of us are apprehensive about Romney, right?

289 Perry has made the mistake of larding his plan up with way too much stuff and making it too complicated.  Advantage: Cain.

What?  Really?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 25, 2011 03:27 PM (8y9MW)

Yup!

Perry's tax plan is one of the first things he has said that I like for intellectual rather than emotional reasons. How people can see it as anything other than a serious attempt at separating him from the rest of the field with their ridiculous 9-9-9 plans or 56 page plans or Newt's incessant blather about overly-wonkish crap is beyond me.

290 Meh, proofreading is for wimps.

291 Too bad. We could beat Obama if we didn't feel the need for scorched earth and conservative purity. But oh well - here we go.

You said it.



"Only my squish is electable. "  If I have heard it once I have heard it a 1000 times. I be honest with you. Yes I think he could win but...Even if Romney is elected, I don't think he'll have the backbone to turn this thing around before it falls apart. So getting him in office is really a non-win in my mind. I'm not looking for purity, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support someone whom I don't think can get the job done.

292 278 235 Shouldn't resources flow to candidates with those qualifications? That's part of the process failure i think.

I understand the sentiment because money is such a huge factor in politics, but you cannot force donors to give money to people they do not support. Also, I feel it would be equally wrong for the Establishment to choose who is the most conservative. The idea is supposed to be that we get the final say on the candidate.

293

305

You're kidding right? Just yesterday, The LA Times was all over the "Romney gives free health care to illegals in MA" story.

 

294 No.  I'm saying if he gets the nomination it'll be because he actually worked for it.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 25, 2011 03:34 PM (d3TgT) 

Like Christine O'Donnell did.  And that's why we all supported her after she won.

Mitt's only job for the past five years has been running for president.  That's not a net plus or an indication he would be a good president.  In fact, considering the sums of money he's spent to secure a 25% share of the primaries he's actually rather shitty at this.

295

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at October 25, 2011 03:23 PM (3Zo6I)

 

After the 2012 election, I think serious consideration should be given to creating a third party. 

I used to think that conservatives could take over the repub party, but I'm beginning to believe that it's so esconced in the DC political machine that the only way that I see to start changing the political landscape is totally from the outside.

I think the process of doing that has already started, but it's hard see for all the dying dinasauers.

296

I'm not looking for purity, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support someone whom I don't think can get the job done.

Mitt isn't my guy.  My guy isn't going to get the nomination because he's qualified as FEMA's only personal disaster zone. (Newt).

But Romney would appoint adults to cabinet posts and I believe those adults would actually cut them down to size.  The real governing is done within Federal agencies, and getting people into them who look at them more like businesses instead of lifetime cushy jobs, would do a lot to cut government down to size.

Hell, at this point I'd even settle for them wasting money at a slower rate.

297 I took Perrys Birth Certificate answer to be both annoyed at being asked and a refusal to reward THE PRESIDENT with praise for finally presenting something a few years into his Presidency that no one else would have gotten away with playing keep away with. I think Perry clearly got a kick out of Trump getting to Barry the way Trump very clearly did. Perry is on O'Reilly tonight. Tune in to see him not get a word in edgewise!!

298

You're kidding right? Just yesterday, The LA Times was all over the "Romney gives free health care to illegals in MA" story.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at October 25, 2011 03:39 PM (O7ksG) 

You mean they were all over the truth?  A rare item in the MFM I'll grant you...

299

I'd prefer an entirly different selection of candidates. Why not run Rubio? He has more experience than Obama did when he first got in.

I'm not thrilled with Mr. Squish, but I am desperate to beat Obama and Perry "aint' gonna do it".

 

300 Some of the Romney hate is crossing over into pathology... it really is not helping your case in the least.

301 We get that.  But surely you can appreciate why so many of us are apprehensive about Romney, right?

Of course I can.  I'm apprehensive about him too!  I'm apprehensive about everybody.

302 Perry going after Romney for his supposed hiring of an illegal who may have worked as a gardener at some point in his life was really lame. If this is the kind of crap we can expect - I think Perry will slip further in the polls.

303

210 "Perry didn't collapse because he failed to go after Romney.  He failed because of the embarrassingly bad debate performances."

 

Yup, exactly right.

Now it may be that by next year the economy will be so bad, the American people so tired of Obama that it wouldn't matter how bad Perry did against Obama during debates... even a ham sandwhich might defeat Obama.

But that is a risk we would have to run. 

 

304 PRIMARY OBAMA!!!! Draft Breitbart for the Democratic nomination. Wouldn't you love to see Obama/Breitbart debate? Or Obama/Alfonzo Rachel? I'd donate time and money to get either of those guys on the ballot with a (D) and a conservative/libertarian patriotic platform. Oh yeah, and Obama is a SCOAMF!

305

Some of the Romney hate is crossing over into pathology... it really is not helping your case in the least.

Agreed. I think many are on board with the "If Perry can't have it, we will damage Romney so badly he can't have it either" short-sided lunacy.

 

306

Don't underestimate Obama. He's got hollywood and the media behind him and laods of corrupt comy flowing into his coffers. We need a strong enough candidate to beat him.

307 318 I'd prefer an entirly different selection of candidates. Why not run Rubio? He has more experience than Obama did when he first got in.

(1) Obama now possesses more in the way of experience than Rubio, even if most of it is terrible.

(2) Rubio lacks the contacts and resources to run a national campaign.

308 >>>even a ham sandwhich might defeat Obama. Don't bet on that.

309

Dear Representative Paul: We had recessions and depressions and bubbles and busts with the gold standard and before the Fed.

We had recessions before the Fed as part of the natural business cycle.  We never had anything as severe as the Great Depression, the Great Recession, or the NASDAQ and housing booms and busts.  And it doesn't take much effort to understand how Fed policies caused -- or at least signifcantly contributed to -- each of these events.

I'm not a Paul supporter, a part of OWS, or an NWO conspiracy theorist.  You don't have to be a loon to see that centralized banking is an inherently corrupt system that should be ended.

310

194: "Right, it would be a much better idea to have four more years of Obama than an "impure" candidate."

Purity's got nothing to do with it, unless we're talking pure bullshit. 

Enjoy Obama/Romney.

311 >>>centralized banking is an inherently corrupt system that should be ended. Yeah, cause the world was so much more prosperous and productive back in the day...

312 Bringing on board advisers with national campaign experience is what Perry should have done before entering the race.  It is likely that he would not be in the position he's in if he had done that - he probably would still be a front runner.

At this point, while it's a smart move, it is probably too late.  Is there any precedence for someone going from 1st place, to barely registering, back to first?  Not to say that something can't happen just because it did not happen before, but I find it hard to believe that he'll be able to come back.

He could have survived the bad debate performances if he did not self-implode over immigration AND he did some kind of effective campaigning by putting forth policy positions.  But, he imploded on immigration and basically offered no policy positions and he stunk up the joint in debates. 

I think Perry's biggest problem is the emotional response he has created.  When you jump on someone's bandwagon and have high hopes for that person, and they do something to force you to climb back off the bandwagon, you are going to develop some negative feelings toward that person and it will take a lot to get you back on the bandwagon.  I think some feelings have likely hardened against Perry because of this and he may not be able to get those people back.

And, I say all this still believing that Perry is our best bet at someone reasonably conservative who could win in the general.  I just don't see how he pulls it off at this point.

313 You know, maximizing bickering is probably not the road to the White House.  Just sayin'.

314 Eh, All Perry needs to do what all theses other guys do at these so-called debates. And that is- 1) Look at all of your stump speeches, 2) pick out the best applause lines, 3) embellish slightly with another line or two as introduction or closing 4) write on flash cards 5) memorize flash cards 6) pull out appropriate memorized lines when questioned on topic or bend question to include memorized lines then repeat lines 7) use your upbeat "I'm giving a speech for money" voice and mien You will win debate. And Perry....you're welcome. Forget the fighting - remember Texas cool.

315 I'm gonna go after Mitt but good.  I want to see his long form birth certificate.

316 "Why are we not winnowing down the field to get center-right candidates with executive/Washington experience, lacking in weirdness or embarrassing history who are likeable." 1. Center-right insiders who are politicians would prefer to stay where they are. They have friends there, and everyone has lots of ways to make sure those pesky center-right outsiders stay on the outside, far away from the cushy bipartisan perks and benefits they believe belong to them. 2. Everyone's weird and everyone has an embarrassing history, if you look closely enough or are willing to exaggerate enough. The media just makes sure we don't get a close look at the people they like. Sadly, the center-right voters, often egged on by vocal concern trolls, are easy to distract with irrelevant personal trivia. And our candidates are apparently too slow to understand that they will be attacked unmercifully as soon as they step into view. They tend to get all weepy and stupid when they're targeted, and then they start backpedaling on issues of actual substance in a frantic attempt to make the people on the news be nice to them again. Which is why I'm not all that upset by Perry attacking Romney. If a primary candidate is unable to deal with criticism now, then that candidate is a total loser who will go down in flames when the actual campaign rolls around. We might as well weed them out before it's too late. And, on the other hand, if a candidate rushes to foolish, ineffectual, and counterproductive attack tactics, like Perry seems to be doing, then that's also important to know. Because their tactics will be just as bad when it actually matters, and they'll fail even more spectacularly.

317 Perry needs to quit answering questions about birth certificates and get his ass to Ohio.....

318 Quoting 210: "Perry didn't collapse because he failed to go after Romney.  He failed because of the embarrassingly bad debate performances."

True dat.

And what 334 said.

319 @church #328: Bingo. I don't do conspiracies or NWO or the sinister internationable jooooo*, but Ron Paul is dead-bang right about the Fed. Wish to heck he could execute.

As for Slick Willard and Anyone But Obama: Like hell. If the Imbecile Party nominates Slick Willard, I'm on the Obama "Turn It Up to 11 in '12" train. The thing about Cloward-Piven is that it's a double-edged sword, and free people can pick it up too. The fact that it will be a thumb in the eye of the Georgette Mosbachers of the world is a bonus.

320 "I'm not looking for purity, but I'll be damned if I'm going to support someone whom I don't think can get the job done. " No one is going to "get the job done" unless they're (a) running and (b) win the election. Did you vote for McCain in the last election? If not, are you happy with the alternative you chose?

321 This birther stuff with Perry is a HUGE F'N DEAL.  Have you read the 20 blog posts I've had about it so far?  No?  Well don't you worry, because coming up I'll be getting the opinions of Paul Celluci, Bill Owens, Nelson Rockefeller, and every other Republican you could ever dream of denouncing birtherism and, in turn, Perry.

322 What is needed now more than anything else is unity. Disunity only hurts ourselves and makes it that much more difficult to defeat Obama.

323 I'm not going to stop saying it: Cain will endorse Romney by June 2012, regardless of who the front-runner is. Cain will never endorse Perry even if he is the nominee.

Who, of our current field, will most unite and motivate the party if they are the nominee?

324 I'm not going to stop saying it: Cain will endorse Romney by June 2012, regardless of who the front-runner is. Cain will never endorse Perry even if he is the nominee.

Who, of our current field, will most unite and motivate the party if they are the nominee?

I'm not sure of your point here.  Are you saying that b/c Cain will endorse Romney, that means that Romney will unite and motivate the party and Perry won't?

If that is your claim please note that Romney has had 5 years to get the GOP to like him and has failed miserably.  He has less support than he had last time.  Whose fault is that?  Romney will not unite and motivate anyone.  People will turn out to vote against Obama, but that is about it.  there will be no excitement or motivation.  In fact, a large chunk of the party will likely vote for Romney with distaste.

325 Look, all you "Perry should go after Obama, not Romney" guys: How the hell does that make sense in your world? Romney is a lot of the things we hate, hate, hate in Obama--slick talker, flip-flopper, health care whopper. Why shouldn't he be showing us he can beat the guy on our side most like Obama if he wants the job of beating Obama?
I say Perry needs to keep going--if he can beat the shit out of Romney, he can beat the shit out of Obama. And if he loses to Romney, it's because he forced Romney to take a stand on the right, not wherever Romney thinks the most votes are that day.

326 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

327 The only way that Amnesty Boy has any chance is to convince people that he is not really Amnesty Boy. That means no more skirting around the issue and trying to finesse the voters. We do not want a president that will provide a path to citizenship for those that came here illegally. As long as I believe he will make a comprehensive deal on the issue, I will not vote for him. I don't think I'm alone.

328

Isnt all this backbiting and nitpicking of the field  what gave us the immortal McLame guys?????

Shit Ace, can we dispense with the gloom over the  'fly shit in pepper' till these guys shake themsleves out in the next 1000 debates.

Or February,whichever comes first.

329 @346: Yep, and Slick Willard is his echo.

330 We couldn't have scripted this any better.  Hell, the GOP primary base is more ignorant and more out of touch than ever before and now the candidates themselves are taking off the gloves and breaking out the long knives.  We actually could win this thing next year, in spite of ourselves. 

331

Apologies for not reading all comments...

As expected, Republicans continue a media sponsored blood-letting that weakens the party, the message, and the chances of getting rid of the cross-dressing islamic rage boy...Stop the friendly fire.  Take the goddamn fight to Obama...

332 "Who, of our current field, will most unite and motivate the party if they are the nominee?"

Newt is the least objectionable one.

Romney - demoralizes the base. There's no way at this point anyone believes he's going to be a fighter for conservative causes.

Cain - there's no way in hell he's going to survive the media scrutiny.  They will magnify each of his gaffes until 90% of the population thinks he's a dumbfuck.  His apparent intellectual incuriosity on many fundamental issues does not help.

Perry - frankly, some of the same problems as Cain. Terrible debater.  You are going to cross fingers and pray when general election debates come.

Newt - we know all the drawbacks.  Hence the least objectionable part.  The key point is that he actually has a proven record of delivering what he promised (or at least as much as you can realistically expect from the best of politicians.)  He can bully and terrorize the media with his intellect once elected, giving us something we haven't seen in a long time, if ever.

I've gamed this out every which way. It's Newt, y'all. Stop dreaming.

333 Ace, cheer up: Rick Perry is never as strong as he looks. Rick Perry is never as weak as he looks. ™

334 I suppose nobody here really cares since none of you are ACTUALLY economic policy wonks, just pretending to be now that it's bad enough, but the answer to Ace's question about "whatever did we do about recessions and depressions when we were on the gold standard?" is answered very easily. The marketplace took its hits like it was supposed to do. Bad companies and malinvestments were weeded out and the economy routinely bounced back quickly, without the government ever having much of anything at all to do with it. With the dollar unable to be artificially inflated, the banks are unable to lend out new money to non-creditworthy institutions. The creditworthy institutions come in to clean house and things get moving again. It's not rocket science, and it's not a conspiracy. It's just math.

335 I suppose nobody here really cares since none of you are ACTUALLY economic policy wonks

Thanks for the knowledge, tiny person who lives in my flatscreen.

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