1 Romney better rethinking the idea of attacking Perry with Democrat talking points. It's ain't going to win anyone over, and make his Mudd permanently in the party. Besides... he should just go away now.

2 Awesome. I can't wait to watch the debate!

3 #1 The election doesn't take place withing the conservative blogosphere and/or at a Tea Party rally.

4 #3 Yeah, but he won't get past the primary if he pisses away his base conservative support.

5 Nearly three in ten say that Perry is the candidate who is most likely to fight for his beliefs, with Palin in second place at 23 percent and, significantly, Romney in a distant tie for fourth at just 11 percent. Perhaps in ordinary time, Romney could overcome this with money and his extraordinary, grease-like, smoothness. But the GOP has bitter memories of Republican Nominee and Democratic Strategist John McCain. If ever a candidate act "Manchurian," it would be hard to imagine him doing it any different than McCain did - scolding the base for disliking Obama, complementing Obama at public events, and suspending his campaign(!) so he could head off to Washington for the opportunity to sit next to Obama in respectful silence for a Democratic photo opportunity. McCain was simply unbelievably, unrelievedly BAD, and by Golly, a true conservative could not have done any of that because a true conservative could not have stomached it. And THAT is what lies at the heart of Romney's deserved lack of popularity: we all KNOW that the man is not a true conservative. Hell, he's not even a true RINO. He's a true ideological opportunist that will do ANYTHING the moment requires of him. Mitt Proteus Romney - we don't need thee.

6 Saw some quotes from Mutt Romney and Bachmann that demonstrate what's wrong with both candidates. They both claim Perry was somehow blaming the elderly for Social Security being a Ponzi scheme as if they, not FDR and his cronies, established the scheme.

Such "logic" is unacceptable in a real -- as opposed to another stuttering clusterf*** of a miserable failure -- president.

The only thing I blame "the elderly" for is not pressuring their "servants" in D.C. to shut SS the hell down decades ago. Of course it sorta worked for a while; only since LBJ and the free-spending Democrats got the hands on the funds did it turn into the mess it is today.

The people responsible are all dead and gone now, so blaming them accomplishes nothing. It is up to the current crop of political hacks to ease the country out of the Ponzi scheme as gracefully as possible.

7
Sarah Palin at 15 percent

Third place, looking good.

8 It's billed as the CNN/Tea Party Express debate.

As I said over in the headlines, why to the Republicans keep agreeing to these hostile environments for debates?

There will be no debate. It will be a series of gotcha questions designed to hurt the candidates and Republicans in general.

9 All that about Romney said... Perry BETTER have a good night in THIS debate. If he is asked about Global Warming a/k/a Climate Change a/k/a Politicized Science and stands sounding like George W. again, it will leave a mark.

10 The other thing is that all these polls need to exclude Sarah Palin as we did in the last poll.

11 7 Sarah Palin at 15 percent Third place, looking good. Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 07:33 AM (bAL0J) Third Place in a Two-Man Race is First Place for Losers!

12 10 The other thing is that all these polls need to exclude Sarah Palin as we did in the last poll. Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 07:35 AM (M9Ie6) And I can't imagine too many Palinistas voting for Romney.

13 As I also said in the previous post, this is a CNN poll and worthless.

14 Big "announcement" by T-Paw:

T-Paw endorsement is Mitt Romney, fuck him and his horse, this tells you why T-Paw failed.

15 Let's face it: when the other candidates drop out, and the current non-candidate makes clear she's staying that way right before roaring out of town on the back of a Harley Davidson with a little American flag waving on the rear fender, the party will STRONGLY coalesce around Perry. Because there is really no one else out there capable of winning AND representing what most people believe.

16 There will be no debate. It will be a series of gotcha questions designed to hurt the candidates and Republicans in general.
Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 07:34 AM

How many times do the Repubs have to be hit in the face with this stinking, dead fish before they get the message? You do not invite the enemy to control the battlefield.

I would be worried if it was a debate co-sponsored by Fucks News, which is moving itself relentlessly toward the pro-Osama Oboma/liberal camp. But CNN and the TP Express? Gimme a damn break.

At least tonight can't be (much) worse than the last "debate." Brian Williams won't be there.

17 15 Big "announcement" by T-Paw: T-Paw endorsement is Mitt Romney, fuck him and his horse, this tells you why T-Paw failed. Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 07:39 AM (M9Ie6) Shows you why he basically hit the campaign Emergency Eject Button the moment they asked him to criticize Romneycare,,, he's been angling for the VP slot all along.

18 Pawlenty announces his support for Mitt Romney. One more reason I never thought much of TPaw's decision making ability.

19
Third Place in a Two-Man Race is First Place for Losers!

Posted by: Tiger Mom at September 12, 2011 07:37 AM (niZvt)

There's some distance to the finishing line, we're not there yet.

20 T-Paw endorsement is Mitt Romney, fuck him and his horse, this tells you why T-Paw failed. Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 07:39 AM

You suppose this means "Poppin' Fresh" and Tepid Air will be going all-out for Mutt now?

21 The GOP should demand an ideologically diverse panel of questioners. Not just Fox News journalists like Bret, but also liberal ones... like Shep and Chris Wallace. (/sarc)

22 Another debate! Presidunce better get a prime time speech loaded up stat!

23

I would be worried if it was a debate co-sponsored by Fucks News, which is moving itself relentlessly toward the pro-Osama Oboma/liberal camp. But CNN and the TP Express? Gimme a damn break.

At least tonight can't be (much) worse than the last "debate." Brian Williams won't be there.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 12, 2011 07:41 AM (YjjrR)

You've got to hand it to Palin staying out of these setups.

24 You suppose this means "Poppin' Fresh" and Tepid Air will be going all-out for Mutt now? Posted by: MrScribbler at September 12, 2011 07:42 AM (YjjrR) It really doesn't matter anymore. You can see the Perry tidal wave (YES, I said TIDAL WAVE, like a Real American!!! Don't whine to me about Tsunamis!!!! Tsunami is a cheap slut that don't know your Daddy!) building.

25 There will be no debate. It will be a series of gotcha questions designed to hurt the candidates and Republicans in general.

The only sane explanation for doing MSNBC and CNN stuff is to do all or most of it first, and then have more serious presentations later, not controlled by these orgs; this way, they can't say they were cut out of process (even though they should be)

26 You've got to hand it to Palin staying out of these setups. Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 07:45 AM (bAL0J) Of course! Just like spending Election Night planning her annual Moose Hunt will be a brilliant flourish!

27 18,19 Good Points. I almost liked T-Paw, until I learned about T-paw. Not only would I not vote for him, But his endorsements push me away from the candidate of his choice.

28 Romney's disgraceful attempt to scare seniors by serially misquoting Perry does not appear to have caught on.

I didn't think it would.  It was such a stupid attack that was easy to counter by just pointing people to the full quote, where he explicitly says he wouldn't go after current seniors.

29 Perry BETTER have a good night in THIS debate. If he is asked about Global Warming a/k/a Climate Change a/k/a Politicized Science and stands sounding like George W. again, it will leave a mark.

I agree.  Problem is that Romney is simply smarter, and (even more important), has hired smarter people, so it will likely always be a draw (somehow Romney checkmated Perry on the MA/economic and healtcare stuff last time!).

Which doesn't mean that Perry still eventually won't win, worth mentioning...

30 9 Pawlenty announces his support for Mitt Romney. One more reason I never thought much of TPaw's decision making ability. Posted by: Chuck Z at September 12, 2011 07:41 AM (OITDh) Even more distressing is the likelihood that, if push came to shove, I can see both Mitt and T-Paw endorsing Barry over Rick. Just like so many "conservatives" like Noonan and David Brooks did. (I won't include that Parker bitch, because to this day I really have no idea who the hell she is and why anyone should care what the twat thinks about anything having to do with the world outside her panties).

31

You've got to hand it to Palin staying out of these setups.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 07:45 AM

Yup. She's staying out of all the dirty work of running for office. Very commendable. Just what I want in a president: someone unwilling to make the effort to be judged by the citizens.

I get the feeling you see this as "brilliant strategy." I see it as laziness. If she doesn't want to be president, fine. Good on her. But if that's so, she needs to say that to her worshipers supporters so they can get a life.

32 Romney is "smarter"????? Hahaha

He has the MFM on his side for now. He is McCain with slick hair, no military background, and more liberal.

33 "Problem is that Romney is simply smarter," Is that based on the same IQ Test that declared Obama a Super Genius?

34 Pawlenty endorses Romney on Fox and Friends and says Perry wants to end Social Security.

They are pulling out all the stops to take down Perry.

35

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 12, 2011 07:50 AM (niZvt)

I knew you were going to jump the shark soon.

36 33, Right on Vic, Don't forget the North East thing. The MFM really loves N/E conservatives because they are really.......................not.

37 Paris, I think the REAL shark jump is adopting the tactic of the Left and assuming that the RINO simply MUST be "more intelligent" than the Conservative that can actually speak like a real human being instead of a public service advertisement.

38 I knew you were going to jump the shark soon. Yeah, but CC was like Fonzi jumping the shark, it was still cool, and the right thing to do.

39 Seems that you, MrScribbler, are the one that needs to get a life.  Obsessively angry much?

40 Perry is the title character in this thread, not Palin. Focus people.

41 Paris, why do you think Romney is smarter than Perry? This is a serious question

42 Vic, Don't forget the North East thing. The MFM really loves N/E conservatives because they are really

Well, to be honest, F&F is about to give Graham some more face time this morning. They like any liberal with an R after their name.

43 Palin/Perry ticket vs Romeny/T-Paw... now that would be interesting.

44

45

Yup. She's staying out of all the dirty work of running for office. Very commendable. Just what I want in a president: someone unwilling to make the effort to be judged by the citizens.

I get the feeling you see this as "brilliant strategy." I see it as laziness. If she doesn't want to be president, fine. Good on her. But if that's so, she needs to say that to her worshipers supporters so they can get a life.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 12, 2011 07:50 AM (YjjrR)

Dirty work , you mean like the thing Mitt is doing?

You bitches are just angry she's playing this brilliant.

46 Vic, did you want to say something?

47 Is that based on the same IQ Test that declared Obama a Super Genius?

No, it's based on the way he speaks; the multiple realms in which he has succeeded; and his academic achievements, which are frightening.  And checkmating Perry in the last debate on econ and MA v. TX economic climate, etc.

48 42 Paris, why do you think Romney is smarter than Perry? This is a serious question Posted by: Velvet Ambition at September 12, 2011 07:59 AM (KwL7a) Obviously, because Romney is a glib speaker. The consistency of his glibness doesn't seem to matter much to his admirers.

49 Yeah, I can see a Mittens-Tpaw ticket, that will really stoke the fires of the GOP base. /s

50 Another debate? Fuck that, I'm going to fap.

51 Vic, did you want to say something?

I started to but all it would have done is start a flame war so I deleted it.

52 Of course! Just like spending Election Night planning her annual Moose Hunt will be a brilliant flourish!

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 12, 2011 07:47 AM (niZvt)

Well, you are obviously a closet socialist. Don't you understand that the mark of a true conservative is to observe all of Sarah Palin's actions with a perfectly uncritical eye? Everything she does is correct, based on a secret long-term plan that is just too complicated for you peons to understand.

53 They are also giving some face time to a Candidate my wife is working for. Ilario Pantano. Great Man, Vetran, Hero, highly educated, well spoken. He is kind of a Rubio/west hybrid. He's a hell of a man.

54

I find Palin's numbers quite strong given the widespread perception she is not running and the memeing of the Perry people that she will endorse their man.

Her topline numbers are still depressed because of this perception yet she still takes points from perry, Mitt and about half from MiniMe.

So when she announces, on that basis alone, she'll shave further percentages from all three, some from the 2nd and 3rd tier, and move past Mitt into a strong second position.

And then she starts campaigning consistently, where her skills are clearly far superior to perry's rather plodding style.

If Palin was as weak as some like to think, she'd have sub-Bachmann numbers.  Her position at this point is consistent with her campaign strategy historically, and she's in fine shape.

55 Fuck that, I'm going to fap. Posted by: Greg at September 12, 2011 08:01 AM (g1r+W) Was it the crack about Parker's panties?

56 Let us please not turn this into a damn Palin flame war. You can not blame it on ace this time.

57 42 Paris, why do you think Romney is smarter than Perry? This is a serious question

Yes, and more intellectually agile and versatile , which is what truly matters.  And has been said, is it really that tough to govern as a free-market conservative in Texas?  No one is saying Texas isn't doing well, but cause and effect?  REALLY?  Yes, I expect Perry to get credit for Texas--that's what politicians do, even if they are largely bystanders.

Romney has an uphill slog, but I'm hoping he can pull it off.

58 Romney/West 2012

59 @48: I'd say you're right that Romney did well in the debate. The other points you made... sound frighteningly like the ones the Obamanistas roll out when asked to explain Barry's Super Genius Status. "The way he talks" is hardly an indication of much beyond practice. And yeah, I agree Perry should have practiced more. (Maybe the fact he was busily saving Texas from a fiery end had something to do with that, though).

60 Paris, why do you think Romney is smarter than Perry? This is a serious question Posted by: Velvet Ambition

and..

Obviously, because Romney is a glib speaker. The consistency of his glibness doesn't seem to matter much to his admirers. Posted by: CoolCzech
.........

It's more than being a glib speaker - which he is.

And I would not call him "smarter", I would say he's "sharper".

But Romney sometimes comes across as sharper and quicker like a car salesman.  He's got all the answers, but you don't really believe he believes everything he's saying.

Perry comes across more genuine.

This new poll is heartening after last week's global warming answer by Perry, and his Ponzi scheme stuff.

I doubt I'll watch the debate tonight.. these things are coming way too often for my tastes.

61 Seems that you, MrScribbler, are the one that needs to get a life.  Obsessively angry much?
Posted by: GMan at September 12, 2011 07:56 AM

Angry? That sounds suspiciously like a response you'd expect from the Palinoid commenters at Tepid Air. Irrelevant, and an unsupported, knee-jerk reaction.

If Palin wants to run, I'm all for it. I'd like to see/hear her plans, not the generalities she posts on Facebook. I'd like to hear her say "yes, I'm running, and here's why you should vote for me." If she's good enough at that point, she'll get the nomination and, in a sane world, depose the stuttering clusterf*** of a miserable failure.

But the bleatings of her fanbois have become tiresome. And, to address your "point" directly, not worth anger. Mild amusement, yes; anger, no.

Right now, politically, she's wasting air that could be better used for declared candidates.

62 ParisParamus at September 12, 2011 08:06 AM Good for you. You have a candidate and a decent reason for your support. If he doesn't get the Nomination, do you vote for the Candidate that does?

63 This might seem as minor to some even here, but I just get so damned tired of hearing the MFing MBM insist that the ScoaMF has this IQ of mythical proportions.

In her latest, MoDo referred to Petey's "magnificent brain."

I saw this over at Gateway Pundit. The SCoaMF read Psalm 46 off the teleprompter, and in doing so pronounced the word bow -like in bow and arrow- to rhyme with how. Putting it in context Verse 9 reads in part as "...he breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two", meaning He will end war.

1) It's obvious that the SCoaMF had never seen or heard the verse before, and 2) he was not smart enough to choose the correct heteronym...even when the context was blatantly obvious.

All he really is is like some trained circus animal doing tricks.

64 If Mitt were to get the primary nod, what does making T-Paw the VP running mate buy him? 

65 And has been said, is it really that tough to govern as a free-market conservative in Texas? No one is saying Texas isn't doing well, but cause and effect? REALLY? Well, he didn't get in the WAY of all that free-market success, did he? Like Romney did with Romneycare? I'm sorry, but Romneycare is the hurdle that Mittens simply cannot get over. It's the damning fact, the fly in the ointment. It's like saying he was a great kid in High School, except for the the time he went nuts with a shotgun in the cafeteria.

66

@ Paris

you're mancrush for Romney has you saying the stupidest things on earth, even Hugh Hewitt who's all in on Romney, is not as idiotic w/ some of your analysis.

You played the smart card, leftists do that. Is desperation that strong right now for you Romnbeybots?

and your 1st comment on the thread made no sense. Indepedents who lean GOP are in this polling.

PS: Perry better make some great efforts tonight & on the 22nd, he's still leading so he can still pull a knockout punch. He'll allow Romney to keep crawling back in if he keep repeating that effort from Wednesday.

67 Allllllright!  A flame war before 9 am.  I love this place.....

68 Debate, my ass.  These state-controlled media events have never been debates -- they're glorified press conferences.

69 It's like saying he was a great kid in High School, except for the the time he went nuts with a shotgun in the cafeteria. LOL

70 Yeah; Romney is "smarter and talks better" because to someone from NYC he sounds better than someone from TX.

He strikes me as a slick used car salesman trying to sell a wore-out 1979 Buick x-car with sawdust in the transaxle. 

71 If Texas is doing well, and Perry is relegating himself to that of a bystander - then I want him in the oval office since thats more closely related to what the feds should be doing right now. Bystanding.

72 But Romney sometimes comes across as sharper and quicker like a car salesman.  He's got all the answers, but you don't really believe he believes everything he's saying.

Perry comes across more genuine.

I can't disagree with this.  But keep in mind it's somewhat of a regional/cultural thing.  I like the visceral Southern thing myself at times, just as I like the way Palin speaks at times.  But don't confuse it with smarts.

PS:  I've never shopped for a used car.

73 46 Yup. She's staying out of all the dirty work of running for office. Very commendable. Just what I want in a president: someone unwilling to make the effort to be judged by the citizens. I get the feeling you see this as "brilliant strategy." I see it as laziness. If she doesn't want to be president, fine. Good on her. But if that's so, she needs to say that to her worshipers supporters so they can get a life. Posted by: MrScribbler at September 12, 2011 07:50 AM (YjjrR) Dirty work , you mean like the thing Mitt is doing? You bitches are just angry she's playing this brilliant. Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 08:00 AM (bAL0J) Yep.

74

And has been said, is it really that tough to govern as a free-market conservative in Texas?  No one is saying Texas isn't doing well, but cause and effect?  REALLY?  Yes, I expect Perry to get credit for Texas--that's what politicians do, even if they are largely bystanders.

why damn, your right. it's Perry's fault he continued to Govern to the right when he was expected to and now wants the right-center party's nomination. why damn, we should elect that guy who scares seniors, wants us paying for ethanol, and destroyed the Massachusetts healthcare program.

any idiot who brings up the "he's smarter" crap is someone who's lost any rational argument

75 ParisParamus at September 12, 2011 08:11 AM Do you ride public transportation? This may explain your Perry man crush.

76 76, I meant Romney, god I need coffee.

77 i was going to say oldsailor..........

78 Posted by: CoolCzech at September 12, 2011 08:06 AM

Hell, CC, one could say The Newt is a more qualified candidate because he can throw out a polished comment, too.

I suppose we have to consider that stuff, because more than one election has gone to the smooth talker over a more qualified rival. "Optics," and all that crap.

But Mutt and The Newt make alarm bells go off in my head. Too slick by half, notoriously inconsistent, able to comment brilliantly from the sidelines but seemingly more comfortable staying above it all.

Not what we need to clean up after SCoaMF, as far as I'm concerned.

79 Posted by: AuthorLMendez
.......
Agree mostly.. but let's just remember, as vic pointed out, this is a CNN poll.  I'll wait to see a few more polls before saying much has been decided.

Perry could still have a really hard time in the northern states.. and if he doesn't back off the ponzi scheme stuff, I don't see how he can go too far in Florida.

80 You bitches are just angry she's playing this brilliant.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 08:00 AM (bAL0J)

Are you serious? Really? Or is this snark. I honestly can't tell.

81

You bitches are just angry she's playing this brilliant.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 08:00 AM (bAL0J)

yeah bro we're just haters/s

82 And has been said, is it really that tough to govern as a free-market conservative in Texas? No one is saying Texas isn't doing well, but cause and effect? REALLY?

And because Romney was a failure in Massachusetts who wouldn't have gotten re-elected, that somehow makes him a better candidate?

Romneybot logic is circuitous.  We should vote for Mitt because he won in a blue state, but we shouldn't expect him to have accomplished anything there, and the fact that he wouldn't have won re-election means, obviously, that he was an awesomely awesome conservative.

Meanwhile, they actually try to turn being a two-term governor of a successful red state into a negative.  This is what happens when you try to sell an incompetent candidate as hyper-competent, and a real competent candidate happens along.

83 O/T but Greece one yr bond now over 100% so Greece is toast and that will pull Euro down as well

84

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 12, 2011 08:14 AM (UTq/I)

of the big state polling i've seen Perry and Romney are partically tied in FL, OH, & even CA; Perry is dominating the south except for FL. Perry's ability to win those northern states like Bush did in 00 will be key.

85 Make that a 111%

86

 Maybe we could at least go a week between debates, or something.

The pro-democrat media need their a gotcha moment. Plus - the R's have not been asked a million times their position on abortion, gay marriage and all the important social issues of the day. No questions about the economy from the pro-democrat media will be forthcoming.

87 Rove doesn't like Perry. If that's all I had to go on, it would be enough.

88 Monty doom up.

89 89, To vote for Perry that is, Jeeeeesh.

90 btw the losing elections express, err, I mean Tea Party express is the Tea Party represented tonight

91 oops, gone now.

92 Posted by: ParisParamus
..........
I'm not arguing against Romney.. I am leaning towards Perry right now, but I think Romney won the debate last week.  And, I am a bit surprised by this CNN poll.. actually, more skeptical than surprised.

At this point, I think Romney would do better in a debate against Obama than Perry would.  But, I'm hoping Perry gets his act together.

This is why Palin needs to either get in or out.  I said early on she was a terrible debater, and the Palinistas around here disagreed with me.  My response was : fine.. let her get in and we'll see her debating skills with the other GOP candidates.  Well, she's nowhere to be found.  These guys are out there slugging it out and Palin sits back making everyone wonder.

93 It is too late for Palin to do anything other than endorse another candidate. She has waited too late to get into the race.

94 Meanwhile, they actually try to turn being a two-term governor of a successful red state into a negative. This is what happens when you try to sell an incompetent candidate as hyper-competent, and a real competent candidate happens along.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 12, 2011 08:15 AM (FkKjr)

I'm not sure that Romney was as awful as some would suggest, but he certainly wasn't a great governor. And Perry wasn't fantastic -- he was competent.

The issue is one of temperament, philosophy and executive skill.

Perry's plain talk and tenaciousness is appealing. Romney's smarmy persona is unappealing.

Perry's small-government mantra is appealing. Romney's "government can fix things" attitude is unappealing.

Both of them have the capacity to lead, and have demonstrated decision-making skill throughout their careers.

95 awesomely awesome conservative won't get you very far in DC.  "Conservative" is sufficient.  Conservative+seemingly capable of choosing the right people to stop things spinning out of control, cut and eliminate layers of crap is a much better combination, IMHO

96 Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 08:10 AM (M9Ie6)

My first car was a Chevy Citation. It wasn't bad!

97 It is too late for Palin to do anything other than endorse another candidate. She has waited too late to get into the race.

Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 08:23 AM (M9Ie6)

Well we are having a wet tee shirt contest next week

98 Perry put this on his FB page yesterday:

WeÂ’re having a special guest at MondayÂ’s debate. Those who correctly guess who it is by tomorrow at 6PM CT receive a bumper sticker! Make your guess below.

99 Are you serious? Really? Or is this snark. I honestly can't tell.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 12, 2011 08:14 AM (LH6ir)

Yes , I am.

What advantage would she have by now by being in the race?

100 The thing I like about Perry is that you get the sense he tells you what he really thinks instead of the poll-tested responses you get from Romney.  Also, Romney's Mormonism is absolute death with the evangelical base (right or wrong, there it is).

The fact that Perry stuck by his "ponzi scheme" idea despite all the pundits shouting he was crazy to do so tells America he will lead from the front - that does much more for him than whether or not SS is really a ponzi scheme (it clearly is).

101 94, I think the race started too early. I think the attention paid to the candidates takes away the attention we should be giving to how the current Gov. is operating. Istead of burning energy worrying about Palin, Perry, Romney etc, we should be organizing and going after this super commitee that wants or should I say will be forced to to gut defense. That is scary shit. One more thing, I don't trust the Tea Party Express as an org. I can't tell you why. It's just something doesn't feel right.

102 tim pawlenty sent out an email this morning endorsing romney.

103 Small government mantra

The last mantra I heard was "Hope and Change."  Nuts and bolts experience goes a lot further.

PS: the used car salesman thing?  My guess is that used car salesmen in Texas sound a whole lot more like Rick Perry than Mitt Romney.

Off to court!!

104 OMG!

105

What advantage would she have by now by being in the race?

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 08:26 AM (bAL0J)

She would have the advantage of spending some time trying to repair her awful image. But that sounds too much like work, and we all know that Sarah Palin doesn't like work. Just look at her brief time as governor.

I like her. She has a great future as a gadfly. But as a serious presidential candidate? No.

106
CNN plans just one moderator posing questions, Wolf Blitzer, and will allow questions from the audience of Tea Party groups in 31 states, and from Tea Party panels watching nationally.




This time around it's just "Lone" Wolf Blitzer working the mike, so that's just one press-hound to hate on.

107 I'd pay good money to watch Charles K moderate a democrat debate.  There would be some ass-kicking going on.

108
"Alone among the contenders, [Romney] possesses the unique qualifications to confront and master our severe economic predicament," Pawlenty writes. "His abiding faith in our country's exceptional historical position as a beacon of freedom will make him the most important leader in a world that depends upon a strong America to stay at peace."

In an interview Monday morning on Fox News Channel, Pawlenty said that Perry's rhetoric on Social Security -- which he has called a "ponzi scheme" -- made him a flawed candidate.

"Governor Romney wants to fix Social Security - he doesn't want to abolish it or end it," Pawlenty said. "He doesn't believe it should be thrown out - he thinks it should be reformed and fixed."


Cork-soaker...

109 106 CBD,

I could see her gaining traction in two cycles.  She waited too long, and her resume needs serious repair/enhancement.  The fact that the Media managed to get their inexperienced wetdream elected does not mean we must try to do the same to prove a point.

At this point she can likely push Perry over the top, or fortify Perry and get her reward from one or the other.

Irony would be making her Ambassador to Russia with a good reliably non-media leaking mentor behind her.

110 There would be some ass-kicking going on.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at September 12, 2011 08:31 AM (uVlA4)

Well, virtual ass-kicking. CK might have a tough time with the steps up to the stage.

111 108 I'd pay good money to watch Charles K moderate a democrat debate.  There would be some ass-kicking going on.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at September 12, 2011 08:31 AM (uVlA4)

I'm not trying to be mean and I like Charles K (well, sometimes) but he'd take too long to get the questions out. 

Personally, I'd like to see Mark Steyn or Thomas Sowell moderate.

112 One more thing, I don't trust the Tea Party Express as an org. I can't tell you why. It's just something doesn't feel right.

There has been some indications in the past that the "Tea Party Express" is not a real small gov org. I can't remember the specifics but I think one of those was that debacle that went down in upstate NY last year.  I may be mistaken because that is a sketchy memory though.

113 We were all (at least I was) unhappy with the way Scott Brown turned out, and were told that a Repub in Mass is really a RINO.  Wouldn't the same apply and happen with Romney?  A repub who gets elected in Mass, is not what we would normally think of as a Repub.  Romney is not my candidate.

114 #99, I heard some time back that Palin intimated she would be there.  I can't think of a scenario in which Palin helps Perry.

Would an endorsement of Perry by Palin even help Perry?  I think it might swing an equal or greater # of voters to panic and head towards Romney.

(panic because Obama can beat Perry though demagoguery) 

115 109 LDC,

yeah I don't notice Willard or T-paw either one addressing ANYTHING about the deep systemic damage the EPA is doing to the nation's economy....

"why is that?"

116 uh-oh, T-Paw endorses Mittens

http://tinyurl.com/3pmcmj4

well you knew it wasn't going to be Bachmann

117 114,

I think Brown is worse than Mitt would be, but then again Mitt had the best position to undermine the Donk credibility in mass and he governed the equivalent of a thimble of piss in the ocean so far as transforming the political landscape so who knows?

118

My dream panel for a Dem debate:

Will or Krauthammer

Sowell

Steyn or Coulter

There would be nothing but a series of greasy spots left on stage.

119

 ...and will allow questions from the audience of Tea Party groups ...

Riiighhhtt.  And who's picking the questions that get asked?  What a crock.

120 Bit more than an endorsement.  T-Paw has officially joined the Sith:

In a statement announcing Mr. Pawlenty as the national co-chair of his campaign, Mr. Romney said that “Tim will be a trusted adviser as I move forward with my campaign. Tim has always been an advocate for lower taxes, reduced spending, and an environment where jobs can be created. It is an honor to have him serve as Co-Chair to my campaign for the presidency.”

Mr. Pawlenty had been looking for help to retire a campaign debt of at least $500,000.

121 Posted by: sven10077 at September 12, 2011 08:33 AM (AEIYh)

As an outsider she is an asset. She wanders around the country poking Democrats in the eyes. I love it. But as soon as she tries to be serious and statesman-like she fails.

She should be the equivalent of "Minister Without Portfolio" in a Perry administration.

Gut the Department of Energy.
Gut the Department of The Interior.
Gut the Department of Education.

I love pipe-dreams.

122

My dream for a debate:

Ace, Maet, Monty (for the economic questions) Drew, for 60 minutes and taking questions from the moron horde for an additional 90 minutes.

Also, no pants.

123 Sarah Palin will be the 2020 version of Newt Gingrich. I'm afraid she just won't fuck off.

124 Oh, FFS!  And Gabriel.

125 Also, no pants. I don't think Newt wears Drawers and that could get uncomfortable.

126 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 12, 2011 08:40 AM (XE2Oo)

What? By then she will be a GMILF. No thanks.

127 Yeah but include Bachman and Palin, and you could put it on pay per view.

128

Riiighhhtt.  And who's picking the questions that get asked?  What a crock.

Well, at least it will be a hoot to follow on Twitter...

129 If you go back and read my eval of T-Paw you will see that I thought he was a squish, flip-flopping on the issues just like Romney.

So this shouldn't come as a surprise. They are both made for each other and both should be relegated to the old party elite squish dustbin.

130 Isn't Palin already a grandmother?

131 "why is that?"

Because you're not listening very carefully.  Either than, or you aren't sincere.

132

...and taking questions from the moron horde for an additional 90 minutes.

And our first question from the morons, "Which do you believe is better vanilla, chocolate, or butter scotch for ball dipping?"

133 128, Well, in ron fashion they could be put in a blow up pool with baby oil and wrestle for the Nomination.

134 wow you all are on top of the news today!  I can't believe I was 100 posts late on it

as for Romney & Perry: I will vote for whomever has teh best shot at beating Obama, I don't care about "smartness" or "sharpness" or slick NE diction or deep-fried Southern accents

135

She would have the advantage of spending some time trying to repair her awful image. But that sounds too much like work, and we all know that Sarah Palin doesn't like work. Just look at her brief time as governor.

I like her. She has a great future as a gadfly. But as a serious presidential candidate? No.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 12, 2011 08:29 AM (LH6ir) 

She dont like work?!

She wants to give you a chance to compare her "awful image" with the other ass-clowns "accomplishments" . That's why she's staying out.

Suddenly thats "unfair" forcing others to do "the dirty work" of campaigning=getting vetted..

136 Question #1 from the ron horde. Have you ever skinned a hobo? If yes, did you start with the head or the feet?

137 Posted by: ParisParamus at September 12, 2011 08:42 AM (kfz40)

What happened to court? They let you off that Indecent Exposure rap already?

138 as for Romney & Perry: I will vote for whomever has teh best shot at beating Obama, I don't care about "smartness" or "sharpness" or slick NE diction or deep-fried Southern accents

That would be Perry because if Romney gets it you can write off the South and large portions of the Midwest. Not to mention the Tea Party 3rd candidate who will siphon off 18% of the Republican base.

This is why the MFM is pushing Romney so hard for our candidate.

139 Doom post back up

140 Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 12, 2011 08:43 AM (bAL0J)

Read more carefully. I directed your attention to her brief time as governor. She bailed out before her term was complete. That indicates to me that she isn't a big fan of the hard slog toward victory.

But she has a great rack and a fine backside. And that's really all I want in a president.

141 I don't know, Paris, but as one that proudly cast my first in a Presidential election for Ronald Reagan the Great, I'm tired to the point of nausea of Liberal Democrats and RINO "moderates" constantly labeling true conservatives as somehow mentally sufficient. The same people that do that then point to "super geniuses" like Carter, Dukakis, and Obama as the epitome of articulate intelligence, blithely ignoring the fact that they are absolute stuttering fools of disastrously epic proportions. You think Mittens is brilliant because he "experimented" with Romneycare. Well, Romneycare is a horrible failure in Massachusetts, and will bankrupt them. It really is the very model for Obamacare. You need to remember that true wisdom can mean NOT growing government, NOT passing "reform" that is nothing but growth in regulations and government control. Most of all, you need to recognize that failed Liberal Rhetoric is not the same thing is intelligence. Ronald Reagan was the most intelligent man to hold the office of President during Our Time. Yet famous journalist Teddy White ("The Making of the President") wrote that he thought James Earl Carter was the most intelligent man to ever hold the office. So much for the Left's estimation of Intelligence..

142 uh, edit: I meant, mentally insufficient.

143 Rex Grossman for MVP!  Hell, Rex Grossman for President!!11!

Somebody had to say it.

144 Romney has gotten deep into the creep factor with his FL fliers saying Perry is out to kill SS. What next, Mitt? Spike strips on wheelchair ramps, printed with 'Donated by Perry'? A flier saying Perry wants to put sand in your Metamucil?
 
Anyone else getting a vibe like there is an army of LDS suited clones ready and willing to spread any lie for their master?
 
Putting literature out like that has officially pissed me off about Romney. Just what we need, another dirtbag leader.

145 You think Mittens is brilliant because he "experimented" with Romneycare. Well, Romneycare is a horrible failure in Massachusetts, and will bankrupt them. It really is the very model for Obamacare. You need to remember that true wisdom can mean NOT growing government, NOT passing "reform" that is nothing but growth in regulations and government control.

I call BS on this entire paragraph.  I didn't say I supported Romneycare, but at the same time, no one has ever said it will bankrupt MA; in fact the evidence is weak that it has harmed MA in any great way (it simply didn't help improve things).

You're tired of RINO moderates?  I'm tired of people and candidates taking credit for being conservatives when that's what's in the water where they are.  I'm also tired of folksy-ness being confused with smarts.  Guess what:  there are dumb people with folksy accents.  Dropping your "g"s shouldn't be confused with being smart or conservative or effective.

146 I dunno.  The CNN poll says that Perry's been at 30% for the last two polling periods. Topped out?   Palin is in a statistical tie with Romney. 

Malor also cherry-picked the comments from the CNN statement, which also said:

The poll indicates that Perry doesn't fare quite as well on issues. Only 26 percent say he is the Republican hopeful who is most likely to agree with them on the issues. That's good enough for the top spot on that measure, too, but it's a far cry from the low 30s and high 40s Perry pulls on electability and leadership.

Perry's biggest Achilles heel may be the likeability factor. Only one in four say he is the most likable GOP candidate out there, his lowest mark on the six items tested.

147

And our first question from the morons...



"Mitt, do you like movies about gladiators?"

148 146 PP,

http://preview.tinyurl.com/maw777

You were saying?

From the Al-WaPo piece....

In a blisteringly frank interview, treasurer Tim Cahill laid out some jaw-dropping stats, which eviscerated the plan and excited every conservative's worst fears about government getting further into the health insurance business:

-- The program has so far cost 30 percent more than anticipated.
-- It already has a $9 billion shortfall projected over the next two years.
-- Costs have risen 41 percent since the program's inception, well outpacing the rise in healthcare costs nationwide, which stands at 18 percent.
-- We thought this program would mean fewer people would go to hospitals, which is the highest cost any insurance plan has to pay. In fact, fewer people are not going to hospitals.
-- A Harvard study shows 60 percent of state residents are unhappy with the plan. The most unhappy? Those whom it should be helping the most -- those making $25,000 to $50,000 per year.
-- To cut costs, the program is now having to kick out legal immigrants.

149
The full text of TPaw's endorsement is up at NRO, in which he says of Mitt:


"heÂ’s not only a family man, he is a man of principle. He believes in the bedrock conservative ideals of limited government and free enterprise."



Whereupon TPaw was struck down by a divine thunderbolt for offering false witness.

150 I mean hell with performance like that Mitt is obviously the guy to finish the work Barry has started....

what we need is not a trimming of the stupid growth inhibiting machine DC has become but just the right guy at the controls of the machine right everyone?

151

Dropping your "g"s shouldn't be confused with being smart or conservative or effective.

keeop digging that hole Frum

152 To cut costs, the program is now having to kick out legal immigrants.

WTF?? Does that mean they are keeping illegals in it while kicking out legals?

153 154 Vic,

with Deval Patric in charge ultimately I'd guess "no" because the illegals get to use the ER without having to carry the insurance unless I miss my guess....

Mitt better be careful or we'll blogstorm the flaws and Idiot Donk runnings of his little hit rod....

let me start digging.....

brb

154 leave Romney alone you southern hicks!!!!

155 with Deval Patric in charge ultimately I'd guess "no" because the illegals get to use the ER without having to carry the insurance unless I miss my guess..

That wold mean "yes" they are keeping illegals while kicking out legals. This is the ultimate in assbackwards PC governance.

156 leave Romney alone you southern hicks!!!!

Posted by: PP at September 12, 2011 09:15 AM (yAor6)

75% of the Moron nation disagree with PP, but that doesn't mean you get to sock-puppet him. That is an ace banning offense.

157 Putting literature out like that has officially pissed me off about Romney. Just what we need, another dirtbag leader.

Posted by: GnuBreed at September 12, 2011 08:55 AM (ENKCw)

You don't have to love me.  You only have to vote for me.

158 The establishment will destroy Perry rather than cede control. Romney cannot win. After they're done with him, Perry might not be able to either. All so the now-two-generations-obsolete northeastern establishment can keep running the show. I'm a squish, but even I smell death on Romney..

159 Third Place in a Two-Man Race is First Place for Losers! Posted by: Tiger Mom at September 12, 2011 07:37 AM (niZvt) Threadwinner! The thought of an Asian lady yelling this at her 8-year-old after a piano recital makes it that much funnier.

160 Good for you. You have a candidate and a decent reason for your support. If he doesn't get the Nomination, do you vote for the Candidate that does? Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 12, 2011 08:07 AM (ZDUD4) No, Romney and Pawlenty supporters badmouthed Maverick's veep pick and pouted on Election Day 2008.

161 @147  It is interesting that poll respondents give Perry such low scores on likability.  That is always the X factor in politics.  People will tolerate some disagreements on policy choices if they like the person.  Not all disagreements on policy, but there is some wiggle room for a candidate if he is personally likable, as Obama has demonstrated.  If O's personal numbers weren't so good, his job performance numbers would be sub-Bush 2008 by now.

Perry comes across as a less-intelligent, meaner version of George W. Bush. 

The desire to really stick it to Obama and the Dems blinds Perry partisans to the electoral fact that each party will start at 45% of the vote and we're really fighting over the 10% in the middle.  At the end of the day, apolitical voters (the 10% int he middle) want someone with a who will make the economy better, keep our guys from getting killed overseas, and who doesn't come across like a mean-ass douchebag, because they need to be comfortable seeing that person's face on the tv every night for 4-8 years. 

Yes, Perry has hit his ceiling in polling.  The reality of Rick Perry is now coming in conflict with the idea of Rick Perry that has been getting fanboys worked up for the last 6 weeks.  And reality always wins.

162 After they're done with him, Perry might not be able to either. That's straight from the Rove playbook, but Perry has schooled the establishment many times. Never lost an election in his life.

163 It is interesting that poll respondents give Perry such low scores on likability. BS. The only candidate who scores higher on positive intensity is Cain.

164 There is no 10% in the middle. That is a myth. Nearly everyone always votes for one Party or the other. What most often occurs is one Party is able to get their voters down to the polls better through enthusiasm while the other fields a lackluster turd who their base doesn't support.  Polls do not measure GOTV effort.

Occasionally and election occurs with a lot of cross-over like the RR blowout. Those are extremely rare.

165 Corn is the fruit of the plain.

166 I'm still not sold on Perry...haven't really had the opportunity to dig too deep yet.  However, any of you still planning to support Mittsy need to take a long, long look in the mirror and ask yourself how conservative you really are.  Really. 

He's W, only more liberal and more liberal.

167 Mitt doesn't think two steps ahead, already Perry countered with a line from Mitt's own book, when he called, the way Social Security has been handled a crime. Plus we know what happened to the Ryan plan, despite the caveats he put into it.

168 One of the many ironies here:, although Perry was a democrat 25 years ago, Mitt's heresies are a lot more recent. Remember the "We just had 12 years of Reagan-Bush, that's not me" line from 1994? Perry may not have always been a Republican ... but he was a conservative. This election, we're seeing very clearly who cares more about which of those two.

169 There better be some questions about the economy, jobs, and the deficit at this damn debate.  You know, the things Republican primary voters actually give a shit about.

170 http://preview.tinyurl.com/l7n2z2

Al-NYT on the matter...

of interest:

In addition to dropping the immigrant insurance program, Commonwealth Care will save an estimated $63 million by no longer automatically enrolling low-income residents who fail to enroll themselves.

Under the 1996 federal law that overhauled the nationÂ’s welfare system, the 30,000 immigrants affected by the loss of coverage also do not qualify for medicaid or other federal aid. Massachusetts is one of the states, including California, New York and Pennsylvania, that nonetheless provide at least some health coverage for such immigrants.

Notice these are LEGAL immigrant restrictions, because illegals can get medicaid after 5 years of residence....

Illegals have access to Medicaid through SCHIP, they do not get preventive care but can use the hospital....

Newsmax link on Medicaid use by illegals-note the illegals get on it because they are not asked about migrant status....

ergo legal immigrants have a harder time getting aid than illegal because legal immigrants are required by state department and INS rules to declare status.-insane

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3hwq9jy

Here's a USA Today story that has some numbers...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/29awge

money data:

As the debate over the residency status of the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants boils, another battle is simmering over what — if any — benefits they deserve while they're here. Some of the most heated arguments on the issue focus on health care. So far, immigrants are losing:

•In Texas, where the state comptroller estimates illegal immigrants cost hospitals $1.3 billion in 2006, the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston is considering denying cancer care to such immigrants.

It is hard to mine out the money data but it is there....

if Cali is any indicator the illegals in Mass are costing SOMEONE hundreds of millions.

171 163 TDP,

I wonder how true that is.....

I preferred Romney over MAVERICK! but was originally wanting Rice or fred....

I do know that this time the Squish fans are again holding their breath and threatening to "vote for that hopey feller or stay home" so.....

I disliked MAVERICK! but volunteered and maxed donations for him for wife and I

172 Perry has a letter/article in the USA Today discussing SS.  He actually may save Mittsy by rebutting this left-flank attack so effectively as to take it off the table as a tactic. 

Mittsy will then have to go to his big gun, "But where is Texas's universal health care law?  Ever heard of a little program I put together in MA...some like to call it Romneycare?  You ever do anything like that, champ?"

That will show Perry.

173 @166 Not the same thing.  IIRC, among the standard complaints Perry fanboys use against Palin is that her support is overstated by aggressive groupies.  Positive intensity is a measurement of that effect.  I don't know that I'd be comparing Perry in a positive way to a third-tier (at best) candidate if I were a Perry supporter. 

General likability is a problem for Perry and general likability is a factor that enables low-information voters to feel comfortable voting for a guy they are less-familiar with.  There are only two potential candidates that have 100% name-recognition right now, Obama and Palin.  Even Romney is far from that level despite campaigning for going on 6 years now.

This is Perry's first trip to the national stage and he comes across as a less-intelligent, meaner version of someone the low-information voter is already well familiar with and who they blame for getting us into unending wars and a bad economy. 

You Perry fanboys may try to wish this dynamic away but you're fooling yourselves.  Low-information voters get the same vote you do and Perry will come across to them as a worse version of someone they already don't like.

This has always been ultimately a two-person race between Romney and Palin.  Perry helps Palin because he makes her look infinitely more reasonable and moderate on the social issues, while still enabling her to run against the establishment that Romney represents. 

You Perry people should really study her past elections.  This is the exact kind of campaign dynamic she has always sought.  This is the exact kind of campaign dynamic that Perry struggled with in his last re-election.  Unlike last time, Palin isn't going to save him from Medina.  She is Medina.

174 175 Hammer,
I'd be interested in polling the 18-25 age group exclusively and see if the person who discusses opt out or hard reform and partial privitization polls better than "keep it as is" for preference, at some point the kids will get the gag that is the system as is.

175 No offense to Romney, but the GOP is showing they are an intelligent political party that values substance over style.  Romney is the ultimate politician.  He's brilliant at it in some respects.  Perry is, however, the guy who has walked the walked the best.  His errors come with a much longer report card, that is largely excellent.  He's got the experience.  He's the most ready.

Obama is a harsh lesson for America.  One aspect is how he was a great politician with no experience.

Frankly, another problem with Obama is how he was two faced, and it was difficult to know his true views on some things.  With Romney, it's also pretty bad.  His anti entitlement reform rhetoric, regarding Perry's honesty with the Social Security reform problem, is more disappointing to me than his abortion flip flop or other flip flops.  And Romney's governorship did not make MA better.

I think Romney's a brilliant man whose success gutting bloated companies is impressive as hell.  But that's all he's got, and it's not enough.

176 177...based on the idealistic idiocy of the group you mention, I doubt their ability to rationally see that clearly past the next bong hit, PBR 24 pack, or condom purchase. 

The socialism-fu is strongest, IMO, among the young.  Especially when they don't have anything and see it as a way to get something for little/no effort.  And, many don't see the unending possibilities this country still offers and figure life on the government teet will likely equal or surpass anything they can accomplish through real effort.

That's when we're truly in the LOTB...when those in the on-deck circle stop understanding what freedom really is.

177 "This is Perry's first trip to the national stage and he comes across as a less-intelligent, meaner version of someone the low-information voter is already well familiar with and who they blame for getting us into unending wars and a bad economy. "

He only comes across that way to the hard left, and frankly the dishonest.

He's coming across as the guy who has done the best job with the best experience.  He's been walking the walk that Palin is talking about longer than she's been talking about it.

I like Palin.  I don't know what you're talking about with this 'complaint Perry fanboys have against Palin' thing.  In case you didn't notice, Perry and Palin have very similar views on 99% of political issues, and naturally this means their supporters are largely the same people.

Palin probably isn't running.  I would be surprised if she endorsed someone other than Perry, but that's her business.  Even if she does run, the main difference between she and Perry is that Perry has a tremendously beefier resume.

178 So, what's the party-line now that Pawlenty has endorsed Romney?

Initially, the anti-Romney crowd (ace included) was in the Tim Pawlenty orbit, dabbling with his credentials and positives. He was the conservative that could realistically be elected. Now that he's backed the enemy of the conservatives who lost us the senate races in Nevada and Connecticut, what will be the talking points? Will we keep the brain shut off and play the dumb 'RINO' hand or invent something else?

To be fair, consistency isn't a prerequisite. We can just avoid this altogether now that we have seen the rising of our new God since Rick Perry was set in motion by divine will.

Although, his motion isn't exactly comprehensible in any post-Galilean manner.

179 Again, it can never be said enough: Romney LOST to McCain. Badly. And all this talk about how he is better this time is just wishcasting. He's done nothing in the last 3 years to improve his credentials or his ability except wait to see what Palin does then follow her lead.
How many elections in the last 3 years did others get out in front and risk an endorsement then, when the outcome was secure, Mittens Mood Ring would ride in and announce he too was going to endorse? Same thing on every issue or major debate: Let everyone else do the work and take the risks then saunter in and pretend he was with them all along.
Have we forgotten all that chicken-shit "I'm a big-time leader" stuff from the Mitt Man?

180 181...Pawlenty, never heard of him.

181 Palin is at 15% wow.

182 Palin's not winning, so the only logical conclusion is that this is obviously an elite establishment Mike Castle RINO push poll.

183 /sock off

184 Backmann's disgusting attempt to bandwagon Mitt's Barack-friendly distortions make's that 4% look awfully good to me.  She's always been a cheap panderer and maybe now it shows to some who didn't see it.

185 @ 180.  I am neither hard left nor dishonest.  This is exactly what I mean by a blindness on the part of Perry supporters.  There is not a great clamoring amongst the general public for George W. Bush to be on the ballot again.  Running another guy just like him, only without the disarming eye-twinkle and Ivy League pedigree, is a recipe for disaster with these folks.

Perry has a longer resume.  That only means he has been taking a public paycheck longer.  I was under the impression that conservatives looked to what a candidate had actually done with the time given to them, rather than just the length of that time.

Perry has managed to be inoffensive to a majority of Texans for a long while.  The stuff he didn't try to do anything with did all right on its own.  Fair enough. 

But when you look at the policies he took a lead on over his tenure, that's where he gets in trouble.  The stuff he was activist about is, not coincidentally, all the stuff that people have complained about.  When Perry actually fights for something it is usually the wrong something.

That should tell you something.

186 Oh, and T-Paw: Worthless sack of shit and I've been consistent on that point. And I pointed it out here several times when there were many who were considering him.
He outed himself as firmly in the liberal/establishment/go-along, get-along crowd when, after the Giffords shooting, he eagerly grabbed a hold of the most vile of leftist  smears and gave them the exact soundbite they were looking for. That's the work of a asshat who begs to his masters to butter his bread. He knew about the smear, he knew it was a smear, he knew it smeared not just Palin but the whole of the conservative base--and he charge ahead full steam, eager and happy to do the work for the suggestion he'd get a few crumbs of praise from the leftist media.

187

Posted by: Vic at September 12, 2011 09:19 AM (M9Ie6)

oh yes Vic, once again making me realize why I don't like you.

Paris was sockpuppeted but it was obvious it was not him. War of the Undead states has been sockpuppeted, so have you, curious, and oh yeah...me!. If i'd be banned for sockpuppeting fellow morons so many others should be too.

as I understand it, you are banned after repeated offenses where you won't make it obvious it's a sockpuppet.

in other words, suck it dry.

188 185 Oily Taitz,

must have missed that commentary in the thread or hell even over the course of the day....

the issue is Mittens acting as a force multiplier for future Mule theatrics on Social Security

189 He's done nothing in the last 3 years to improve his credentials or his ability except wait to see what Palin does then follow her lead.

I hate to break it to you, but Sarah Palin is a political joke. It is baked into the zeitgeist. She is incapable of winning elected office on a state-wide level in any but the most conservatives of states. She appeals to a demographic that will zealously vote against Obama in any case and her appeal to moderate voters is nothing less that toxic. To put her forward publicly is like hoping for a herpes outbreak before prom. These are not statements of opinion, they are statistical facts bared out by tens of polls which have been analyzed and regressed to death with the same outcome.

The very fact that you compare her to one of the two top tier candidates and put her forward as a leader on anything but cowardly facebook snipes degrades your subsequent comments integrity. I'm most sorry to say.

190 So Pawlenty endorses Romney. Guess he is now ok with socialized medicine.

191 Those now on team mitt may soon be faced with a choice of Ps. The schadenboners will loom mightily on that day.

192 Now that he's backed the enemy of the conservatives who lost us the senate races in Nevada and Connecticut, what will be the talking points?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.  When T'Paw dropped out, he pretty much became a non-factor in the race.  Why would there be any talking points?

193 Sorry about the extra punctuation.

I hope its just the vitreal detachment.  They say it will settle down but I can't really see what I'm typing and apostrophes are not easily distinguished from floaters.

194 Why is nobody talking about Perry, who was personally invited, going to the Bilderberg (one world order) conference in Istanbul in 2007? Or his trasnscontinent highway, laying the corner stone for a mosque in Texas, and his open border with Mexico philosophy? Has anyone researched this, or google Perry at Bilderberg?

195 187 Sarah,

you mean O'donnell?

Because at this point I can hardly tell the two apart....

196 I can't wait until John Bolton endorses Romney so I can hear from all the true conservatives on how Bolton is nothing but a washed up Washington insider loser. #182 Reagan lost the nomination twice.

197 Uriah Heep,

You act like that's some kind of change.

Establishment Republicans love Romney.  They very much choose him.  It was that way yesterday too.  T Paw was (in my opinion) a better candidate than Romney, but he's not as good a politician, so his campaign fell apart.

Romney will get tons of endorsements.  Most will be establishment guys.  I guess Gingrich will, for example.  Mccain, possibly.

Palin is a wildcard on this point, as her endorsement is actually worth something (unlike Pawlenty's).  She has made hard establishment moves before, such as her Mccain support, but usually there's a very powerful reason.  Because she and Perry have aligned many times, I suspect she'll endorse him, though his running obviously interfered with her options.

198 Unlike last time, Palin isn't going to save him from Medina. She is Medina. Maybe Funky Cold Medina lol. Is this the new Romney angle? Play Perry against Palin. She is the most hated person in politics next to Pelosi. Many voters have an idea of her -- fair or not -- as an imbecile. She is liked by the conservative base, but not if she meddles with the 2012 nomination like she did in the miodterms when she pushed fringe candidates who cost the GOP those Senate seats you alluded to earlier. Nice try.

199 Posted by: Drm at September 12, 2011 10:17 AM (VfjjY)

I find your views intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

200

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:17 AM (PCEZn)

I've always argued that saying Mitt lost to Mac is a stupid point as Reagan lost to Ford who lost to Carter.

thata said, you and other Romneybots condesending comments about Perry supporters adds my passion to defeat Romney, thanks

201 Sorry, having trouble telling trumpetdaddy and Uriah Heep apart.

202 197 DRM,

because we aren't a RONPAUL11111!!!! bunch?

The presence of a politician in the B-team is hardly the most alarming thing in the world....

If we're going to delve into "circles within circles" it open Mitt up to some of his own....

instead of this GOP on GOP "friendly fire" we could have you know a clean race and focus of defeating Jugears m'kay?

203 the issue is Mittens acting as a force multiplier for future Mule theatrics on Social Security

Posted by: sven10077 at September 12, 2011 10:15 AM (AEIYh)

The Mitt attacks will completely backfire, mark my words. Romney's biggest perceived weakness coming into this primary is that he is willing to say/do anything to gain electoral ground. This shit only reinforces that meme.

204 I've always argued that saying Mitt lost to Mac is a stupid point as Reagan lost to Ford

Yes, but it was a close loss, and to the incumbent President of his own party.

205 I can't wait until John Bolton endorses Romney so I can hear from all the true conservatives on how Bolton is nothing but a washed up Washington insider loser. Wait till DeMint endorses Fishmitten. Human sacrifice. Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria.

206 polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:17 AM (PCEZn)

I haven't even put my contacts in yet this morning, so I'm not going to bother reading upthread, but are the Perry supporters stealing something directly from the Palinista playbook and throwing Pawlenty under the bus for his Romney endorsement?

207 206 Oily Taitz,

yup....Mitt is so hot to trot he is making the donk case for them, if he thinks Ogabe will not nail HIM for "you think this guy can uh er stop those evil GOP voters he had to hold off to beat Perry?"

Mitt's a power hungry moron.

208 I'm not proposing there will be any paradigm shift over Pawlenty's announcement! I very much agree with much of your thinking.

What I am curious about is how the 'true conservative hardcore Americans' that were flirting with or backed Tim Pawlenty as he was the 'palatable non-Romney candidate' can say that Tim's judgement was good enough to be president, but when that same judgement you formerly supported for the highest office examines and chooses between Romney and Perry and enforces the former -- well....

I do believe Ace was in this Pawlenty flirting camp for sometime. Perhaps he can help provide us with some talking points and marching orders for why we were wrong for supporting Tim and whats changed.

Extra points if we can somehow work blaming Pope Urban VIII.

209 Aside from eight caucuses, Mitt only won three actual primaries, and they were legacy wins: Michigan, Utah and Massachusetts. He placed third. Not even close.

210 210 Yeah, now we got Mitt sucking off the Dems on two issues: healthcare and SS. What next?

211

" and his open border with Mexico philosophy? "

 

Epic failure. Thanks for playing.

212 Perceived condescending comments about Perry supporters has you upset? Are you kidding me. You sound like a BDS lefty complaining about criticism of Obama.

213 'true conservative hardcore Americans' that were flirting with or backed Tim Pawlenty as he was the 'palatable non-Romney candidate' Who found him palatable? He placed third in the Iowa straw poll and never topped 5% in national polls.

214 209 Oily Taitz,

You are acting as though any Perry supporter ever was happy with TPAW, I was ambivalent, my preference is for a fiscal conservative and I am flexible on social matters.

TPAW endorsing Mitt is sort of like saying "well the poodle just endorsed a poodle will the wolves now call the poodle a poodle?"

Tpaw's campaign was so successful he was out a while back....should maybe give one pause about pretending this really increases the size of mitt's coalition.

215 216 TDP,

exactly....

this is sorta like severe celevration over a field goal when your team was down by 17 points with 45 seconds left in the 4th quarter....

erm "yeah?"

216 " Perceived condescending comments about Perry supporters has you upset? Are you kidding me. You sound like a BDS lefty complaining about criticism of Obama.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:29 AM (PCEZn)"

I don't understand who you're talking to or what about.

Perry has the most support, by far, so of course he also has the most folks who are emotional or loyal.  That just goes with the territory.

Romney has always surprised me.  Even when he had the most support, his supporters aren't very direct about it.

Anyhow, Perry has some aspects worthy of criticism, but since he's the only successful governor running, and his primary competition is, frankly, not credible on any matter of principle, Perry will continue to find a lot of support.  And criticism of Perry will largely be reflected on by comparing him to the other options.  The race would probably be a lot more interesting if Romney dropped out, and I look forward to that point.  then we'll be able to see Perry compared to principled and successful leaders.

217 Perry supporters stealing something directly from the Palinista playbook and throwing Pawlenty under the bus for his Romney endorsement? Funny, I wouldn't take Ezra Klein for a Perry supporter, but he could see the suspicious timing of Pawlenty's endorsement was more an anti-Perry endorsement. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain. Why did TPaw back down on his socialized medicine comments at the debate? Because he would give his left nut to be Romney's VP, and that has not changed.

218 >>So Pawlenty endorses Romney. Guess he is now ok with socialized medicine. This is why I get such a kick out of many of you getting your panties in a bunch about Romney going after Perry on SS. Perry has called SS a Ponzi scheme which are illegal last I looked, unconstitutional, a failure and program that should be run by states. A very reasonable interpretation of these statements would be that he wants to end it unless you subscribe to the view that Perry supports illegal, unconstitutional failures. But it's perfectly ok for Perry and others to insist that Romney will keep Obamacare despite stating repeatedly over the last 2 years that the plan he put in place was a state plan and that he would work to repeal Obamacare from day 1 if elected. Perry has been trying to run away from his words in his book since he announced. He even went so far as to say when he released his book that it proved he wasn't running for President because nobody who held those views could be elected. But Romney is somehow evil for pointing out Perry's own words or that somehow Democrats would overlook his record and never bring it up. Ridiculous.

219 At this time in W's announcement for President he had the endorsements of 20 Governors. How many does Perry have? Dustin my post #215 was a reply to #203.

220

"Why did TPaw back down on his socialized medicine comments at the debate?"

 

Because he supports socialized medicine.

221 Sven,

Before he started campaigning, or whatever it is that he spent the past four months doing, I thought Pawlenty seemed like a good, inoffensive nominee who could knock Obama off. He never clicked with the primary electorate, so now he's out. Like you say, his endorsement hardly matters (is his name ID over 10% yet?), but that's hardly a reason to trash the guy. I've voted for Perry twice, and plan on doing it a third time on Super Tuesday, but the Palinista scorched earth tactics aren't going to do us any favors.

That being said, I've scrolled up to around the 100th comment and read all the subsequent ones, and haven't really seen this Pawlenty bashing that polynikes is talking about.

222

That 47% of people who 'don't pay taxes'?..... They see that big deduction in their small checks each week for SocSec/Med and view that as a tax.

In reading around last week on sites where young people post comments....YouTube & Yahoo....it looks like what Perry said about 'SocSec is a ponzi scheme' and how 'young people are being scammed' is resonating with that voting group.

Perry comes across as 'honest' to the younger voters....like that cool dad who tells them the truth, instead of lying to them like the other old dudes do.... At least that was the common theme to a lot of the comments I read.

 

223

"Perry has been trying to run away from his words in his book since he announced."

 

He pretty much stayed on the same message at the debate. Perhaps you were watching something else, maybe "Flipper" was on tv.

224

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:29 AM (PCEZn)

yeah except I've bashed Perry for his Texas Dream Act & was less then thrilled w/ his debate performance though not as much as ace. I also have defended Romney at times. I back up my talk and the Romneybots are getting to be as bad as the Palinistas with the distorted info, data, and even getting now to claim "smartness" as a factor. I can't wait to taste the Romneybots tears.

225 Perry has called SS a Ponzi scheme which are illegal last I looked Three Nobel prize-winning economists have also called SS a Ponzi scheme: Miltoon Friedman in 1999, Robert Samuelson in 1967 and Paul Krugman in 1996. Romney even called it a "criminal enterprise", but now he's more committed to it than the Dems?

226 Fuckin' primaries!  How do they work?

227 Oh, I see what Poly was responding to.  Nevermind.

But I kind agree.  Romney has a lot of rude supporters.  I think it's because Romney supporters are more interested in winning than principles.  I sure want to win, too, but we're talking about folks who are willing to elect a guy on both sides of almost all issues, in exchange for 55% instead of 54%.

They are justified in this attitude by how terrible Obama has been, but it's just so desperate for power that it misses the big picture.  And I kinda think Romney is a bit like that.

I don't want to be too ugly about Romney.  I might have to support him eventually, if Perry implodes (guess what, he won't... he's won a hell of a lot of elections, and large ones... Romney has only won a single election as a liberal Republican in a small state, and was unable to win reelection, so I think Perry's the more stable candidate).

Romney is actually a good candidate in a couple of ways.  Most of his agenda is excellent and conservative.  He is very good at distilling criticism of Obama, at least at this point (note it's damn easy at this point, as he can just blurt out a one liner on Obama, and the crowd cheers, and even the liberal moderators do not follow up on that because it's the GOP primary and they don't want to look too MSM-ish).  It gets harder in the future, and that's where Romney's inexperience, flip flops, and general super-slick-ness might post huge problems.  I think Perry is more electable, even though the polls show a slight edge for Romney in that regard, and I ask Romney fans, especially electability ones, to really consider how electable Romney is.

Think about which of these candidates won more elections.  Perry often won against very strong opposition.  The democrat candidate for Texas governor was excellent last year.  And Perry also beat a very established Senator with the backing of most power brokers in his own party.  And Texas is diverse and large and complex.  No other politician has been able to repeatedly win the governorship here.  Perry's the longest serving we've ever had.

Romney looks great on TV, but how many elections has won?  How many has he lost? 

At any rate, the electability argument is not so certainly a Romney favoring one, and Perry beats Romney on so many other factors.  Twelve years of balanced budgets vs Romneycare. 

228 -----------
May 25, 2011 Old and Busted: Tim Pawlenty Is, Giggle, The "Guts" Candidate With the "X Factor"
New Hotness: No, Seriously, Tim Pawlenty Is the Guts Candidate With the X Factorposted by Ace at 12:50 PM
------------


Poor Pawlenty. He got between Rick Perry and the conservative mob trying to get to the sink to wipe off the 4"x6" portrait before it stains: he never had a chance.

Old and Busted: No, Seriously, Tim Pawlenty is the Guts Candidate with the X Factor.
New Hotness: No, Seriously, we always knew he was a satanic narc planted 50 years ago to turn RINO and help promote those crazy evolutionary and celestial ideas. Communist.

229

but are the Perry supporters stealing something directly from the Palinista playbook and throwing Pawlenty under the bus for his Romney endorsement?

I'm not a big T-Paw fan, never have except when I said I was gonna look at him so I wouldn't vote Romney. So your point is invalid towards me.

230 But it's perfectly ok for Perry and others to insist that Romney will keep Obamacare despite stating repeatedly over the last 2 years that the plan he put in place was a state plan and that he would work to repeal Obamacare from day 1 if elected. Romney said he would give each state a waiver. Big difference. In fact, this plan sounds like the Brown (R-MA) -Wyden (D-OR) bill in the works.

231 Not to mention that I think Romney's handling of social security as an issue lately has been unbelievably desperate. 

If he plays that game in the general election, he's done.  It's four more years of Obama.

232 Funny, I wouldn't take Ezra Klein for a Perry supporter, but he could see the suspicious timing of Pawlenty's endorsement was more an anti-Perry endorsement. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain. Why did TPaw back down on his socialized medicine comments at the debate? Because he would give his left nut to be Romney's VP, and that has not changed.

TPaw backed down on Obamneycare, because he's a passive aggressive twit. Also can we not go down the "if you don't support my candidate you must have some ulterior motive" path? Pawlenty would love to be anyone's VP. Couldn't it be that he thinks Romney simply has the best shot at being president?

233 Funny, I wouldn't take Ezra Klein for a Perry supporter, but he could see the suspicious timing of Pawlenty's endorsement was more an anti-Perry endorsement. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain. Why did TPaw back down on his socialized medicine comments at the debate? Because he would give his left nut to be Romney's VP, and that has not changed.

TPaw backed down on Obamneycare, because he's a passive aggressive twit. Also can we not go down the "if you don't support my candidate you must have some ulterior motive" path? Pawlenty would love to be anyone's VP. Couldn't it be that he thinks Romney simply has the best shot at being president?

234 Mitt's got the T-Paw juice going into tonight's...em, debate.

235 Posted by: Uriah Heep at September 12, 2011 10:44 AM (KaHVv)

Ouch!

236

Posted by: Dustin at September 12, 2011 10:44 AM (fF625)

great analysis, good post, I comend you sir

+1000

I like Mitt more then I let on but these Romneybots and the mediscaring/social security scaring crap by Mitt has me real pissed at his potential candidacy. Mitt's my #2 but he won't get my money or campaigning for, just my vote. I still think perry has this, but he can't pull off that Wednesday performace again.

237 #228 Romney said it was run like a criminal enterprise. But you know that it just fits your purpose to misquote him. And oily taitz I was responding to 14,18,19,28,31,37. It has been a pattern on this site as soon as someone supports someone thought to be a RINO they then become a RINO.

238 Urethra Heat, no one called TPaw a Machurian candidate, just a dumb, ambitious stooge. We've known this since at least the Shawn Lawrence Otto Minn-Post op ed.

239 Actually, those defending Romney's approach to Obamacare can't quote Romney.

Because we don't trust Romney.  He would say whatever he thought helped him best.

Instead, show us Romney's record of opposition to mandates... to government intruding on my choices when it doesn't need to.

Oh, you can't.  Romney's record is the worst, of anyone running, on this issue.  And Romney has a habit of saying things he didn't really mean.

Face it: Romney cares more about winning the election than any actual issue.  If it helped him to be pro-choice, he would be.  In fact, I think Romney would lead to tons of buyers remorse soon after he was nominated, as he repositioned himself.

He is the ultimate establishment guy, because all they really want is power.  Stability.  No reform.  A constant 50 year campaign of talking about reform without ever actually balancing the budget. 

It really is surprising to me that Romney hasn't fallen further in the polls.

240 224 Oily Taitz,

I have been active in the GOP since '88 when I was 16.  I am a Kemp/Gramm man since Reagan never really gave direct political issue to an inheritor of the mantle.  Bush was in the strongest position to keep Reagan's flame going and I had no vote so I canvassed and volunteered for Bush the elder.

I do not have a dog in this race, hell my wing of the party may well be dying.  I think the GOP needs to get back to hammering the case that the best way to help the poor is to have a free economy that is regulated to the minimum needed to protect the electorate.  Jack Kemp made the case to the cities that were working poor that the best way to help the working poor was to aid business in keeping more of its wealth to increase our competitiveness.

Thus far NONE of the candidates seem interested in making the moral case for the dismantling of the $uper$tate.  Romney seem to run on diminishing the overhead of it, Perry ignores his part in expanding it in Texas.  The point has been made but cannot be stressed enough the GOP candidate for President needs to highlight the success stories of Detroit, LA, NYC, Jackson MS, Chicago et al and ignore the subtle cries of RACIST!!!

Democrat policy is toxic to any host organism it latches on to as are all parasites.

I'll back whoever wins with my vote except Paul.  I'll open my purse thus far to whoever wins and may well get back to campaigning in Ohio for the GOP since I am so close to home finally.  I will not give my purse to Romney if he acts like Barack Romney in getting the nomination.

I backed and preferred, voted, and lobbied for Romney in the primary last cycle.  I have had little issue with Mitt and felt that McCain and Huckadoodle did him wrong with bigotry softly sold in the past.  Mitt's behavior shows he is too hot for power IMHO and will do whatever he must once in DC for popularity.

We need reform and stabilizing not "go along to get along" especially not if we have a Supermajority Opportunity like we had in 2001-2004 with the "flipper interruptions".....

I fear electing romney means the Maine Susters/Brown GOPwing will have its power magnified beyond its numbers and have the donks back in power if they run enough Heath Shuler style blue dogs.

241

#228 Romney said it was run like a criminal enterprise. But you know that it just fits your purpose to misquote him.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:50 AM (PCEZn)

those Romney supporters, lots of class huh?/s

242 Dustin Romney did not run for reelection for Governor.

243

230.....Romney looks great on TV

--------

Not to me. Never has.... Romney has always reminded me of those big-forehead aliens in that old 1950s sci-fi movie "This Island Earth".....'Exeter' was the main one, same stiff body movements and speech patterns too.

244 It has been a pattern on this site as soon as someone supports someone thought to be a RINO they then become a RINO. I supported Huntsman until he started talking shit about conservatives. Now Romney is doing this, too, just when I thought it was impossible to dislike him more.

245

Posted by: sven10077 at September 12, 2011 10:51 AM (AEIYh)

another great post

246 >>He pretty much stayed on the same message at the debate. Perhaps you were watching something else, maybe "Flipper" was on tv. Because he has to. Both he and his advisors have issued various statements on his book saying they were just a look back not a plan of action. So maybe you can tell me, does Perry support a program he thinks is an illegal Ponzi scheme and unconstitutional or not? It's pretty tough to understand why he would but go ahead and make the case. >>Romney said he would give each state a waiver. Big difference. In fact, this plan sounds like the Brown (R-MA) -Wyden (D-OR) bill in the works. No, actually he said he would give all 50 states an immediate waver which would throw the plan into a funding turmoil and begin work to repeal it completely. Repeal will take time, a waiver is immediate.

247

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:51 AM (PCEZn)

of course not because his approvals were so bad he would have lost re-election

248 "#228 Romney said it was run like a criminal enterprise. But you know that it just fits your purpose to misquote him.

And oily taitz I was responding to 14,18,19,28,31,37. It has been a pattern on this site as soon as someone supports someone thought to be a RINO they then become a RINO.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:50 AM (PCEZn)"

Well, I don't think T Paw is a RINO, but he obviously is an establishment guy.  He made a few surprisingly good comments, but he's never been some kind of amazing conservative.  I think you're badly misstating the supporting comments he got. 

It goes without saying that Romney should get all the establishment endorsements.  If Dubya endorsed anyone (he won't) it would be Romney.  Romney will collect a long list of endorsements.

BTW, isn't it weird that Romney was so critical of Perry's harsh description of social security when Romney had previously made much harsher descriptions?  I guess not.  It's no longer weird when Romney nakedly lies to our faces about his views with another inta-flip flop.

I'd rather not be too hard on the guy, but thankfully his campaign is going nowhere.  He really should have figured out what his opinion was on all the issues of this nature a long time ago, and not needed to make 180s.

249 Romney has always reminded me of those big-forehead aliens in that old 1950s sci-fi movie "This Island Earth" Huntsman and Bloomberg have that weird lip line that make them look like puppets. If they ran together on the same Independent ticket, it would be like the Terrence and Philip show.

250

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 12, 2011 10:54 AM (lNGfM)

doesn't help when the fanboys come out and start bashing away too

251 He really should have figured out what his opinion was on all the issues of this nature a long time ago, and not needed to make 180s. Romney has no convictions or principles he is not willing to jettison for the sake of political expediency. Ironically, this makes him the consummate politician, but not a very good one. He would be the career politician he scorns, if people actually voted for him.

252

252....Ha! That's because they are really Lizard People.

I watched Huntsman this morning on FN.... He does this little tongue-flicker thing that is a dead giveaway.

253 doesn't help when the fanboys come out and start bashing away too Like I said, we know Romney's scorched earth tactics from the last time around. Whether you call people "fanboys" or whatever, Romney supporters will blame evangelicals and their bigotry when he loses again.

254 I voted for the Lizard People in Minnesota. Franken stole my vote.

255

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 12, 2011 11:02 AM (lNGfM)

LOL

256

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 12, 2011 11:01 AM (lNGfM)

 

He might as well start doing so. He's pissed them all off with his lying and defense of Romneycare.

257 I would've voted for Lizard People rather than Al Franken, too.

258 Repeal will take time, a waiver is immediate. Posted by: JackStraw at September 12, 2011 10:54 AM (TMB3S) Nobody believes Romney will repeal Obamacare. He has thrown fights on conservative issues before. He has flip flopped on every single position, economic or social. He wants power above all else. He created the program and never apologized for it.

259 OK Romneycare is the ONLY position he never flip flopped on.

260 "Dustin Romney did not run for reelection for Governor.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 10:51 AM (PCEZn)"

You're right.  What's odd is that you think you're correcting me, when I already noted this.  He was so bad as governor that he was deeply unpopular, and running was a waste of time.  Romney clearly would have lost, had he run for reelection.  He didn't even try, but instantly moved towards running for president, which he has been doing for many years.

Romney started his governorship several years after Perry, and Romney failed at it many years ago while Perry is still going strong, the longest serving governor in Texas history and the longest serving governor in the country right now.  That's because Perry is a successful governor, and Romney was a failed governor.  Romney's big successes were riddled with failure.  Even Romney notes his health care reform was full of problems because, quote, it was "too hard" to beat the democrats.  Perry has also beat the democrats AND republicans on much harder issues, such as spending cuts.  That's why he's often running against establishment Republicans on one side, and well organized and funded democrats on the other.

The only reason Perry is still governor is because he simply does a good job, year after year after year.

Anyway, every honest Romney supporter needs to explain why they support a guy who couldn't win reelection to the only office he ever held.  Why not pick someone who succeeded in administrating government instead?

Perry and Romney's agendas are very similar, after all.  Why not pick the guy with the skill to enact the agenda successfully?  I don't hold it against Romney for failing to beat democrats on policy.  For one thing, Romney agreed with the democrats on most issues before he decided he was running for the GOP nomination for President, but for another, that's hard to do.  Most people simply don't have the temperament to successfully handle divided government and entrenched lobbyists. 

I think Perry's success compared to Romney's failure speaks precisely to this one skillset.

Romney would be a huge improvement over Obama, since Romney is a smart man, at at least today he claims to be conservative, which is better than nothing.

But come on.  Romney was so unpopular at the end of his term because the voters changed their minds about him.  I don't want to be one of those voters.

261

Back in 2008, the Dems were doing a whisper campaign about some Morman prophecy that said 'a Morman would come to power blah blah blah'.

I'm not a Morman, and am not familiar with what that's about.

But if anyone thinks that the Dems won't bring out all the 'crazy Morman' stuff again if Romney gets the nom.....they are delusional.

Romney is the one that team Obama would like to run against.... Or Palin.... Because they know that they could shred either one of them. They also know that Romney or Palin would make a lot of conservatives want to just stay home.

Perry is the one they fear the most.

262 I would've voted for Lizard People rather than Al Franken, too.

Fools!

263 Does anyone seriously think Romney would repeal Obamacare?

Seriously?  Based on what?  Romney flip flops, so not Romney's word, obviously.  So what is that based on?  His record?  His record is support for mandates.

It will take a real badass to fight to repeal Obamacare.  I'm sure Romney's explanation would be 'it's taking time' and 'it's not a priority' for his entire term.

Romney would say the same thing about balancing the budget.  The guy is all talk.  Show me his record of actually doing something as governor, that relates to what we need him to do, as President.

Don't y'all get it?  That's why we like Perry.  He walks the walk.

264 >>Nobody believes Romney will repeal Obamacare. He has thrown fights on conservative issues before. He has flip flopped on every single position, economic or social. He wants power above all else. He created the program and never apologized for it. You mean you don't believe it. So you're calling Romney a liar. Yes, I can see why you're so pissed at Romney for repeating Perry's words when you clearly have the ability to read Romney's mind and interpret what he will really do. Since you only judge people based on their record and desire for power I can clearly see why you support Perry and his ultra-conservative record in Texas and his shy, demurring, reluctant record in seeking ever more power in Texas politics over the last 2+ decades. And no, Romney has not flip flopped on every position but you keep fucking that chicken. Is this where I start shouting you are giving the Dems campaign material?

265

You mean you don't believe it. So you're calling Romney a liar.

Yes, I can see why you're so pissed at Romney for repeating Perry's words when you clearly have the ability to read Romney's mind and interpret what he will really do.

yeah Romney isn't a liar even though he lied about what perry said and it's on camera! dope

266 "Why is nobody talking about Perry, who was personally invited, going to the Bilderberg (one world order) conference in Istanbul in 2007? Or his trasnscontinent highway, laying the corner stone for a mosque in Texas, and his open border with Mexico philosophy? Has anyone researched this, or google Perry at Bilderberg?

Posted by: Drm at September 12, 2011 10:17 AM (VfjjY)"

Because we're all in on it.

Anyway, one thing Texas needs more of is some damn highways.  What I find interesting about Perry is two of his three policy screw ups, Perry saw the light of day on and did not enact.  He's an actual conservative.  Something going too far?  People pissed about it?  OK... we don't do it, then.  That's so unusual.  Nothing rammed through in the dead of night.

You're just lying to say Perry is open borders.  I don't know why people keep lying about that.  He wants a highly controlled border, but isn't lying to us about fencing off a river.  those demanding a fence along the rio grande are lying or ignorant.  It's an easy issue to make big promises that are never kept.  The way to control Texas's border is with a ton of patrolling agents and technology.  Perry has demanded huge increases of this nature.  It's not as sexy as a 50 foot high wall in the center of the river, I guess.  It's just a real, practical solution.

Perry is dead wrong about e-verify.  On that one, he deserves criticism all day.

267 Is this a Teh SARAH!!! flame war? No one called me? Damn you!!!!

268 267 Jack Straw,

Jack come on you have to admit that Romney is "flexible".  Part of why I didn't carry over my backing between the two cycles is because at the end of the day the list of accomplishments Romney had as governor was awful small and predicated in large part on his exit to Romneycare which if not the father of Ogabecare is at least its Uncle.

Romney flailing like he is and using a position that any retard with bing and 3 minutes can see he at least has partially argued the inverse to some degree in his past is oily and defeats unaffiliated faith in the integrity of our overall brand.

We have a flexible PotUS now when the cameras are on.....just because flexibility to the guy in charge right now means drifiting between Marx and Gompers doesn't mean he is not being portrayed as a bridge builder in the newsies meme....

I dunno, I am a lot less impressed with Mitt than I was a month and half ago.

269 270 NCJ,

who?

270

Dustin,

I was all for the Fence until I learned what it would entail.

We would be giving up miles and miles and miles of US territory in building that Fence....because it would be set back into our side as much as 2 miles in some long sections, about 1 mile back in most sections..... They wouldn't be putting it right on the border, but quite a bit far north of the actual border..... A lot of people still don't know this.

271 "And no, Romney has not flip flopped on every position but you keep fucking that chicken. Is this where I start shouting you are giving the Dems campaign material?

Posted by: JackStraw at September 12, 2011 11:14 AM (TMB3S)"

I guess the weasel word here is 'every', and the missing word is 'yet'.

Romney isn't the devil.  He'd be a big improvement over Obama.

But he's flip flopped specifically on social security rhetoric, condemning something Romney also did.  That's hilarious.  He's flopped on core issues like being pro-life.  He's flipped even on whether he's a reagan republican, which is a whole set of philosophies.

We just can't take Romney's word for it that he was do ANYTHING.  We must ignore Romney's word, because he could flip flop again as soon as he's nominated.  Right now is the most conservative Romney will ever be.  As soon as he's selected, the path for him will be triangulating.   That's not the end of the world, and would be a big improvement over Obama.  Romney would wants to win reelection, and he's smart enough to know he needs to get government off the back of commerce.

But on certain policy promises, it's insane to ignore Romney's real record, and listen to his current views.  Just ignore whatever comes out of Romney's mouth, and look at his record as governor of Massachusetts.  What did Romney really DO with power?  He imposed a mandate on everybody he could.  Sure, he seems to think it's good to do this only at the state level, but he's not really philosophically opposed to the idea.  Quite the opposite.

That kind of thing makes us skeptical that repealing Obamacare will be on his agenda, ever.

And no need to get emotional defending Romney from the flip flop meme.  This is the big leagues.  Romney has a huge vulnerability, and this one would haunt him in the general election.  Low info voters who don't really know which way to vote will probably reject a guy they are convinced is a shameless liar.

Perry won't have that problem. 

And what positive case does Romney have?  What justifies his being our leader?  His tremendous success at Bain is not nearly as relevant as 12 years of balanced budgets and 11 years of job growth running a large government (country sized) with low drama and high competence.

Reconsider your support for Romney, and pick someone more electable who is ready to lead.

272 And no, Romney has not flip flopped on every position but you keep fucking that chicken. Life, gay marriage, China, AGW, MLK, Vietnam, stem cell research, cap gains taxes, family values, the First and Second and Tenth Amendments, national security and so on. There are websites dedicated to Romney's contradictory statements over the years. Really?

273

" Is this where I start shouting you are giving the Dems campaign material?"

Yeah, the Romney campaign would never do that.

/facepalm

274 So the guy that coined 'Oromneycare' but was too afraid to use it to his face, is now supporting Romney? Not just supporting Romney at the end to show a united front vs. Obama, but he's the FIRST former candidate to declare support for the guy he used to attack as being unfit. This is why candidates shouldnt attack anyone but Ø. It keeps you from looking like a flip-flopping ass.

275 "They wouldn't be putting it right on the border, but quite a bit far north of the actual border..... A lot of people still don't know this.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 12, 2011 11:26 AM (rkliO)"

That sure would suck for some Texans.

Also, I personally worry that such a fence would be an excuse to keep the border unguarded.  What's a fence going to do when it's cut down, or tunneled under?  Are we to put fences around the gulf of Mexico, too?

We need enforcement.  We need e-verify (which Perry is on wrong side of) and we need a large and permanent border patrol effort.  A fence is a great idea along some geography.  But it's not a very good solution for other areas, and never will compete with sufficient border patrol. 

Perry's only getting something like a C+ or B- from me on this issue, frankly.  It's a legitimate one to criticize him on, but not regarding the fence.  He's right about that part.

276 sven10077 Romney started his term with a three billion dollar deficit and ended with a 300 to 500 million surplus depending on who you ask. His conservative accomplishments ,which are numerous, in this liberal state is impressive.

277 272. Sven, you know who... Think stompy boots and sweater puppies!! Yeah thats why she's my candidate but I'm also a dirty old man Sue me

278 >>Jack come on you have to admit that Romney is "flexible". Part of why I didn't carry over my backing between the two cycles is because at the end of the day the list of accomplishments Romney had as governor was awful small and predicated in large part on his exit to Romneycare which if not the father of Ogabecare is at least its Uncle. Actually, they aren't small at all. When Romney took over MA, the state was dead last in job generation and getting worse. We were second in the country in unemployment increase and growing. We had a structural budget deficit of $3 billion and growing. When Romney left office 4 years later the state had begun to add jobs and he had balanced the budget in his first year without raising income taxes. You might not find that as impressive as someone who inherited a pro-business state with a vibrant and growing economy and managed to only slow the rate of growth but I do. It's pretty much the situation we find ourselves in nationally. Romney has a record of working in a bi-partisan way to not only get elected but institute changes that are pro-growth, budget balancing and without increasing taxes. What has Perry done? Romney governed one of if not the most liberal states in the union. Did he massage some of his positions and words to get elected? Gee, no shit. He's a politican and that's what they do. But Perry governed one of the most conservative states in the union, what's his excuse for the first in the nation Dream Act which has been copied by Dems everywhere and just missed getting rammed down our throats? Aside from big campaign dollars from Merck, what was his excuse for mandating vaccines for kids? Perry has lots of interesting stuff in his record that is only now coming to light. Perry has a record just like Romney. You can ignore the bad about Perry and hammer Romney for his positions or you can look at both and decide who you think has a more relevant record and who is likely to be more effective as a national candidate and President. I think Romney would be better on both fronts but that doesn't mean I won's support Perry if he gets the nomination. But the selective outrage here and the rightosphere is silly. All of these guys are politicians and they are all whacking away at each other and will continue to do so.

279 Our choices amongst declared candidates are no different today than what I mentioned on another thread last week. 

The two highest polling candidates today are respectively:

Flip-flopping living Ken doll with socialized medicine baggage..

Bush version 2.0, only even more Texas-y. 

Wow.  That's fucking inspiring choices right there. 

280 "Romney started his term with a three billion dollar deficit and ended with a 300 to 500 million surplus depending on who you ask. His conservative accomplishments ,which are numerous, in this liberal state is impressive."

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney"

That's an excellent argument.  That's much better than what I hear from Romney supporters most of the time.  More of this.  Romney has no credibility on what he says at this point, so you need to point to what he did.

One important aspect of what you're crediting Romney for is HOW he got that deficit under control.  Sounds like his spending cuts.  You called it a conservative accomplishment, and that means spending cuts.

But no, Romney increased spending.  He also increases taxes.  By $750 million per year.  Against the interests of employers and business associations.  And MA predictably did not add many jobs.  Fewer per capita than almost any other state.

MA is a little weird, and very rich, so I think a huge tax hike would work for a little while there before things got really bad. 

High taxes and a surplus is probably better than a huge deficit, so Romney gets some credit, but compared to Perry, who CUT spending, and has signed 12 years worth of balanced budgets?

BTW, Polynikes, Romney has often claimed he took a $3 billion deficit, but that's a projection that was wildly wrong.  It was $1.2 billion.  And he claims he left with a half billion $ surplus, but the next government found that it still had about a $1.3 billion deficit.  At least that's what the next governor claims Romney's last budget gap really was.

Here's what happened.  Romney had a $1.2 billion deficit, raised taxes by $750 million, mostly on business, and then the ensuing economic reaction did not lead to the surplus Romney projected.

Fuzzy math.

Perry doesn't need fuzzy math.  He's cut spending.  He's signed 12 years worth of balanced budgets.

281 " All of these guys are politicians and they are all whacking away at each other and will continue to do so.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 12, 2011 11:39 AM (TMB3S)"

Sure.  But it's a little annoying when a John Edwards or a Mitt Romney notes 'they all do it!' by proxy.

There's obviously a degree of BS from Perry too, but for the most part, the Perry we had in 2000 is the same damn guy we've got now.  Even the Perry in 1988 supporting Gore was a limited government guy.  A real federalist (used to be, federalists resented Republicans in the south).  His principles seem to REALLY BE his principles.

On a lot of stuff, Perry probably plays politics.  I doubt he gives a crap about evolution or creationism, for example.  But on core issues?  Perry's pretty consistent.

282 Jack Ploy,

Romney added in Romneycare which added to legacy debt....

I am not giving Deval a pass but holding out a 300-500 million dollar surplus at the end of the peak of the last bubble is hardly proving anything but he barely held back the tide.....

This "bi-partisan way" bullshit you point to as a feature not a bug is why we are where we are by the way Jack.  Everytime the Political class D and R drive the entitlement bus to the edge of the Grand canyon they "bi-partisanly" do the minimum amount to half ass stabilize it and kick the can down the road for 15 years or so....

the Faustian "bi-partisan deal" was expressed between Reagan and now quite frankly.... instead of fighting LBJ on "guns and butter" we eventually silently gave permission to keep going with it by not fighting Tip O'neil increasing spending faster than reagan grew revenue, Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Ogabe keep on running variations of this hybrid monster that allows the left to advance their wealth devouring domestic agenda and the right to get their military finance for the foreign agenda.....

we are now two steps from falling into the chasm and the most Romney will do is take us two steps away rather than try to convince people "hey it is a fucking 4000 foot drop and we are 4 goddamned steps from doom"

Obama has convinced me that this middle of the road shit will destroy the nation as quickly as radical left will and we'll get the majority of the blame by the time the media is done....

better to argue our case and see where the middle wants to go, if they need to see Greece II Bambi loves Nancy to have reality teach them there is not enough wealth to feed their vision well....

"change" I am tired of being the democrats' enabler on creeping socialism....

Bush almost had me on the verge of leaving the party over his "pills for geezers" platform that is NOT why I elect Republicans

283

From Perry's op ed in USA TODAY today:

"

“Americans deserve a frank and honest discussion of the dire financial challenges facing the nearly 80-year-old program,” he wrote, saying that the program needs to be reformed to make it “financially viable” for younger workers.

Just ahead of the next GOP presidential debate, co-hosted by CNN and the Tea Party Express in Florida on Monday night, Perry used his op-ed to expand on the explosive exchange he shared with former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney at the Reagan Library last week.

“By 2037, retirees will only get roughly 76 cents back for every dollar that is put into Social Security unless reforms are implemented,” he wrote.

“Imagine how long a traditional retirement or investment plan could survive if it projected investors would lose 24% of their money?”

Despite his controversial rhetoric on the popular government program, the Texas Republican continues to lead among his fellow Republicans."

 

Romney's response "Perry wants old people to die".

284 I'm not really trying to bash Romney's economic record in MA.  I think Romney had a very tough time, and at least tried to balance things out.

With such a democrat stronghold, tax/fee increases are probably the only way to do it, but it seems spending increases came too, and the tax increases didn't do enough of a job raising revenue. 

If you only look at projections, sure, Romney saved MA from a deficit (not $3 billion by any stretch, though).  If you look at what really happened, it's a great argument for using spending cuts instead of tax increases.  When you raise a tax, it just doesn't lead to the kind of revenue you were hoping for.

But good for Romney for at least trying to balance the budget.  A higher tax is better than a higher deficit, in my opinion.  At least, that way, the current citizens are paying for their government.  If it's too much government, they need to see that instead of kicking the can down the road forever.

I think Romney's effort to increase taxes was a sign of intelligence.  It had to be a pretty hard decision.

285

The only true conservative, America's Greatest Patriot, is running fourth, within striking distance of the faux-conservative, Zionist corporate-oil-lackey from Alaska with no favorable media coverage at all! Quake in your boots, conservative wannabes! Our strategy of freeping the hell out of every single internet poll and bombarding internet forums with Pro-PAWL!!!1!  comments is turning the tide! By the time Super Tuesday rolls around, the flower of Liberty will be in full bloom!

RAWN PAWL!!!1!

286 >>Dustin at September 12, 2011 11:48 AM (fF625) Actually, you're wrong on just about every point. The deficit was approximately $3 billion, he vetoed over 250 spending bills the Dems put forth and did not raise taxed but closed some loopholes that business was using to get around paying taxes. If businesses didn't like it they had an odd way of showing it as job growth turned around significantly under his watch. The spending increases that did happen were overrides by a veto proof majority in the legislature. Most of the fees that were raised were small potatoes, marriage license fees that hadn't been raised for a couple decades, mooring fees at state parks, etc.. To say that Romney supported increasing spending if factually wrong. I live here and lived here then. It just isn't true. Do I wish that Romney had had a conservative legislature like Perry does and more spending could have been cut? Sure, but that isn't the reality of the situation. Romney did the same thing at both the Olympics that he turned around and at Bain & Co. where he was brought back in to turn the company around when it was on the verge of bankruptcy. Romney has a long record of supporting cuts in spending, its the scary boogie man argument the left always uses against Romney and his investor background. It can't be both, either Romney believes in cutting spending and understands how business and small government work as his record and the left suggest or he is a big time spender. I'll go with the record.

287 I just can't help but shake this impression that when the democrats demand a compromise with a President Romney, and ask for massive tax increases, Romney will say OK.  When they ask to table repealing Obamacare, Romney will say OK.

That's not because I'm a foaming at the mouth purist.  That's because Romney compromised or arguably worse when governor.  And doing so eroded Romney's support.  The voters could just vote for a democrat if they wanted tax increases and spending increases and government intrusion into their private health care decisions.

Conservatives who win reelection manage to beat the democrats on these issues while remaining fairly conservative.  Otherwise, there's no damn reason to support the conservative.  Dems have been setting up these compromise battles for ages, specifically trying to erode Republican support in the next election.

A tax increasing President Romney serving a single term is better than Obama, but it's not because I'm a zealot that I think this is not the best choice, long term, we can make.

Polynikes cites Romney's taxing and spending and 'deficit reduction', and I think it's important that folks research that on their own.  Check the records on spending.  Check the year by year actual deficits, and the revenue the taxes brought in, and how that impacted the MA economy.  And of course, do the same for Texas.  Check and see that Perry's overseen (and lobbied hard for) cuts to every agency in Texas.  Every administrator has to get their job done with 2% less.  Then another little cut.  On and on.

Frankly, that's what it takes just to stay afloat as a state, because the federal government imposes enormous and bloated unfunded mandates.  Even with a hell of a lot of cuts, Texas is barely able to balance the budget because the federal government demands more and more.

It's getting late in the game to let this crap keep going.  I know our next president will need to compromise on some issues.  Taxing and spending probably isn't one of them.

288 There were 1.6 billion in spending cuts enacted during Romney's term.

289 " There were 1.6 billion in spending cuts enacted during Romney's term.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 12, 2011 12:08 PM (PCEZn)"

I'm sorry, but this is not the case.

Romney increased spending three out of four years he was governor.

Since you claimed Romney cut a $3billion deficit, which is a common myth, I think your source may have misled you. 

Anyway, didn't Mitt's revenue largely come from capital gains taxes in MA, when the economy was booming?  He didn't cut spending.  He simply was there when MA investors made a lot of money.  And he still increases taxes and fees.

Romney is good at looking like a fiscal genius, but his record as governor is that his first year saw the end of the post 9/11 downturn, and his state had some good years.  And like many states having good years, they increased spending over and over, and also increases taxes.  Romney's government increased spending at a rate far faster than inflation.

All their deficit reduction successes were because of economic trends nationwide, not MA having a conservative governor, which they simply did not.

The democrat legislature did establish a rainy day fund.  Romney takes credit for this, but the fact is that he didn't really govern like a conservative.  He governed like a tax and spend democrat, in a state that is wealthy and did really well in the mid 2000s.

Would Mitt have increased taxes and spending in a downturn?  It's not really fair for me to say he'd be that kind of president just because he was a tax and spend governor in a boom.  But those claiming Romney's policies turned MA around are simply mistaken. 

Perry has governed both during boom years and during downturn years.  With stable spending cuts and balanced budgets, Texas just has a more stable economy, and Perry's record is 3 times the length of Romney's without the need to mask his real leadership decisions.

290 Oh, and just to be clear, Polynikes is seemingly claiming the MA government was spending $1.6 billion less when Romney was done than when they started.  This is simply completely wrong.  Romney left a much larger, more expensive government than he got. 

Perhaps there is some way to find, amid all the spending increases, $1.6 billion in cuts.  That's kinda deceptive.  Even Obama is cutting spending if you are able to omit all the ... spending.

291 294 Dustin,

that is why I said legacy debt was still bad....

Mitt "balanced the budget" during a peak earning time for the US before the correction hit....

so as long as we are running the engine so close to peak that it is about to blow mitt's mad donk whispering skillz gain about 300 million without him actually fixing any of the structural flaws and electorate assumptions that hamper Mass growth......

and for this "wonderful race driving" that got about 1/3d of a billion ahead we are to ignore that Perry's state is so successful in a bad economy that Imam Obama has issued a Fatwa to EPA to kill Texas direct.....

"okay"

I am suspicious that Mitt will drive the car more slowly to the cliff while Perry will at ;east try to either turn the wheel or best case go in reverse away from it....

292 One debate after another, and STILL NO THAD McCOTTER!

Look what we're missing:
http://tinyurl.com/6fua9d9

293 Re: Tim Pawlenty,
Early in the game, I'd supported him. I've read his book, was disappointed when he dropped out.
But then I saw his appearance on The Colbert Report --
and realized he is not at all the man I thought he was.
His dig at Michele Bachmann was juvenile and mean,
his joke about "blowing sparks out his butt" was juvenile and crass.
http://tinyurl.com/3jgfwmw
So what the hell, good riddance.

Oh, and by the way, he was a big McCain supporter in the 2007-8 primary season.

294 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

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