1
The ol' social-issue trap; very easy to 'step in it' when you delve into such touchy issues.

2 The GOP has doubled the quantity of our posts in 10 years!

3 Ummm, I thought it was very clear that the fine with me referred to a state deciding the issue for itself.  Apparently not. 

4 I'm finding my respect for the man is growing.  Now if some of those nagging governmentitis issues could be addressed, that would help a lot.

Still suspecting Perry/Bachmann may be our best bet ticket.

5 states rights. & no apologies for being a social con.

although right about saying it upfront , doesn't seem to damage campaigning dems when they say it.

6
I'm not saying Perry was pandering, but let this be a lesson to all GOP candidates: Resist the urge to pander to social cons.

i) You'll get bitten in the ass by your own words, eventually.
ii) It comes across as insincere.

7 3 -- even if he meant it's "fine" that the states decide it himself, it's still an error. He still has to say "I would prefer they did not, because I believe marriage is between a man and a woman."

8 OT - I'm a little late but in fairness I totally ignore the guy, even when its "topical."   If  according to McCain we are the hobbits then hes the troll.

9 These nasty conservative activists are so conservative about their conservative "issues".

10 Ya know I am fine with people being very concerned with Social Issues like Abortion, Gay Marriage, and Yada Yada Yada. But if we "Conservatives" continue to make these issues a litmus test and front and center, we're gonna continue to turn off many center non-aligned voters. And we really can't afford to do that. We really have to start looking at the big picture

11 Sooth, but we know the media like gotchas.  but i agree don't make it a issue in your campaign if it can be helped

12 >>>I'm not saying Perry was pandering, but let this be a lesson to all GOP candidates: Resist the urge to pander to social cons. >>>i) You'll get bitten in the ass by your own words, eventually. >>>ii) It comes across as insincere. A candidate must pander to social cons just as a candidate must pander to virtually every other part of his would-be winning coalition.

13 we're gonna continue to turn off many center non-aligned voters.

If they are "non-aligned", why would they care about those issues?

14 There's more to be concerned with than whether a dick fucks an ass or a pussy. It's time to win the Presidency and the Senate, then we can worry about where the dick belongs.....

15 alexthechick at July 28, 2011 01:23 PM (VtjlW)

I thought it was pretty clear too, but he needed to put a stop to all these Socon quotes that the media has been pushing about whether he was really talking about states rights or talking about gay marriage. Some people just need things explained using short sentences with words that have as few syllables as possible.

16 I've got to know how a candidate stands on the Mounds versus Almond Joy issue if he expects my vote.

17

Perry gives a hell of a campaign speech - I've seen him up close and personal several times.  And he's been getting better and better!   Unlike a lot of the buttoned up GOP who are all about looking respectable and not upsetting any business partners, you can tell that Perry honestly loves getting in front of a crowd and raising hell.  It's the Aggie Yell leader in him.  (which he was back in 1970)

There was a good article out yesterday, I'll have to find it, making the point that in a lot of ways, Perry is much more of an LBJ than a Bush.  (and take that anyway you want)  Unlike either Obama or GWB, Perry knows how to reward his friends and crush his enemies, just like LBJ did.  And Perry doesn't really care what anybody thinks about him as long as he wins. (That really pisses the Press off)

LBJ was famous for saying "Whatever else I may or may not know, I do know Power - how to recognize it, how to find it, and how to use it."   That's the kind of leader Perry is. 

18 Let me clarify my position on the occasional murder : I'm for it. And sometimes demand it.

19 i would deflect as a candidate. I have opinions about x y z, But this is a time when our country's security and financial state is of the utmost importance, Lets get back on fiscal safety and address those issues in our homes , in our shuls,, churches, communities

20
A simple, "I prefer Almond Joy," will not do.

They feel the need to say, "Almond Joys have no better friend than I!"

21 Next year is going to be about the economy. Period. Bonus is that Perry is right about the 10th and how these social issues should be decided by the states and not by 5 unelected elites wearing robes that we call "Justices of the Supreme Court". I'm starting to think I might have a candidate to champion next year. Which is nice.

22 ooh, and dems and reps are speaking of the deficit on cspan. Dem premise is It's the Rep fault!

they are playing politicas instead of caring about Gramma who they will kick out of nursing homes (well you  get the picture)

23 Why don't we all stop telling Rick Perry what to say and just let him speak.  Enough already with "I'd prefer he'd say" shit.   Let the man be what he is. What he isn't is a country club Republican.  We will find out soon enough what he is made of.

24 We must lie to every group and let them think we are on their side and we love them the most.  It's like dating.

25 so almond joy lovers do indeed prefer nuts.

26

"...Obviously gay marriage is not fine with me. My stance hasn’t changed.”

Which mirrors the The Vapid One's® campaign stance on the issue, IIRC.

27 We really have to start looking at the big picture

Like say, for example, the big picture of what's happened to this country since the hippie dippy free love, f*** the traditional family unit, movement of the sixties? That big picture?

28 Attention politifag groupies, straphangers and nerfherders: Non-issue. This is a no-brainer, and yet you continue to insist that "gotchas" are the point of the process, rather than a manufactured sideshow. And this isn't even a "gotcha." He made a statement concerning his federalist proclivities. On first blush, it appeared inconsistent with his stance on gay marriage. With a very short clarification, all is once again right angles and harmony.

29 No Republican candidate can avoid social issues, for a lot of the base these issues are what's most important.

30

we're gonna continue to turn off many center non-aligned voters.

And they would vote for Obama????

This election IMHO will be not be about abortion, gay marriage, etc. Those are issues for better times, not now. The candidate that can convince the voters that he just might be able to avert total Armageddon will win.

31
...so almond joy lovers do indeed prefer nuts.

Wait a second, now. That's not what I meant.

/beep beep beep (backup alarm)

32 _{Why don't we all stop telling Rick Perry what to say and just let him speak.  Enough already with "I'd prefer he'd say" shit.   Let the man be what he is. What he isn't is a country club Republican.  We will find out soon enough what he is made of.
Posted by: mpfs at July 28, 2011 01:31 PM (iYbLN)}


Thank You. Some people would parse a fart.

33 I prefer Almond Joy when speaking at the United Almond Growers of America conference.

34 My stance hasnÂ’t changed

hmmm...

35

Some people just need things explained using short sentences with words that have as few syllables as possible.

Speaking of Twitter...

 

36 It's The Economy Stupid. 

Famous words that were dead on.

37 If they are "non-aligned", why would they care about those issues? Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 01:26 PM (OhYCU) Well some of them do and just how many votes do you want to cede to the enemy before we even start playing the game? And more frequently than not it is us Republicans/Conservatives making a bruhaa over it.

38 I'm sick of our society fighting social wars through the federal government.  It makes no sense.

I don't really care what a candidate thinks about issues that should have nothing to do with their job.  The president's opinion on gay marriage should matter about as much as my mailman's opinion on gay marriage.

39 27We must lie to every group and let them think we are on their side and we love them the most. It's like dating.

Posted by: cherry ð at July 28, 2011 01:31 PM (OhYCU)

 

i wondered why i was finding Monty's spanish soap-opera interludes so entertaining...

40 Did we get around to Perry's quote on the current "crisis" in DC?

“ThereÂ’s still gonna be revenues flowing in, so I think this threat that somehow or another the world is going to come to an end and the threat of  Â’WeÂ’re not going to be able to pay our billsÂ’ is a bit of a stretch,” Perry told reporters in Houston. “Most Americans know this: WeÂ’ve spent too much money. WeÂ’ve gotten our house in bad shape, and we need to stop spending.”

Oh, and remember that Perry refused to give any interviews to any editorial boards of any major paper prior to the last election. He knew the bastards were going to waste his time, use the results as an excuse to bash him and endorse his opponent anyway.

41

Some people would parse a fart.

It's a good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read your comment.

I am so stealing that.

42 27 We must lie to every group and let them think we are on their side and we love them the most.  It's like dating.   And like dating, the feelings of inevitable BETRAYAL! (BE-TRAYAL!) will soon be forthcoming. 

43 And they would vote for Obama???? This election IMHO will be not be about abortion, gay marriage, etc. Those are issues for better times, not now. The candidate that can convince the voters that he just might be able to avert total Armageddon will win. Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 28, 2011 01:33 PM (0OJd9) Your right their are much more important issues, but yes if "WE" make a bloody inter-Republican fight over this in public it will turn off voters.

44

Let's face it people, if Perry is our candidate Social Cons will be voting for him.

What else are they going to do, vote Obama? Not vote and potentially throw the election to Obama, one of the most anti-life presidents we've ever had?

I understand that in primaries social issues are important, but in generals they are less so. Especially in 2012.

If this election is about anything other than the economy, Obama, his records, or Obamacare, then we'll probably lose.

45  It's The Economy Obamomy Stupid.

46 I just hope Perry has that fire in the belly that I've had for some time.

47 Every time someone writes Cons, it makes me think of unpleasant trollness.

48 Posted by: The Mega Independent at July 28, 2011 01:32 PM (mXnsm)

Yes, but not for the reason I feel you suggesting.

49

I just hope Perry has that fire in the belly that I've had for some time.

that's not fire, that's that Puerto Rican kid you ate yesterday

50 Electoral history is littered with candidates who were "good on the issues" and brought a lot of ideas to the table, but weren't particularly good at persuading people to embrace these ideas. Much like Christine O'Donnell.. [ducks and runs]

51
I want all GOP candidates to stop making these rookie mistakes. Herman Cain isn't going to be the only one who steps into a pile of shit because he thinks he's saying something that will please the base or a particular group.

52

Conservatives should look to actions and not simply words.  We shouldn't make the same mistake with Perry that we did with Daniels, who had as pro-life a record as you can find.  Mitt Romney can go out there and say he is pro-life all he wants, but I'm not sure he has actually done anything concrete in that regard (maybe he has).  Perry and Daniels have passed laws or restricted funding (and taken the political risk of that) to try to combat abortion.

I think the way he is framing this is good, in that he is trying to be consistent.  Both parties have not been consistent with this approach in the past.  The left wants complete personal freedom when it comes to abortion and marriage, but is willing to control every other aspect of your life (smoking bans, salt bans, lightbulb bans, healthcare, envirionmental bans, speech bans, etc.).  The right wants the federal government out of their life as much as possible, except in areas of abortion and marriage. 

Regardless, Perry is being consistent.  When it comes to economic (and other) policies, we say we should look at a candidate's record above their rhetoric.  But when it comse to abortion, all we wants is the rhetoric.  I have much more confidnece that a Perry or Daniels (who have advanced the pro-life movement) will do so (if they were President) over someone like Romney who has not.

53 Some people would parse a fart.


A candidate can't fart sideways without someone complaining about the noise.

54 Every time someone writes Cons, it makes me think of unpleasant trollness.

sorry, it's just an easy abbrev. of social conservatives or fiscal conservatives

55

I like it. He has opinions about social issues, he's voiced them, and he's sticking by them. But he also has opinions about the rule of law and how laws come to be, and this is more pressing to him than what's in any specific law. I don't read that Perry views the New York state government as a higher power than God. Instead, I'm getting a clear picture from a guy in government of what government is and how it operates.

I'll assume the guy is a Cowboys fan, and for the sake a discussion I'll say the Eagles scored a pretty touchdown against Dallas. Perry might not like the play, but if he sees the receiver come down in the endzone with both feet, he accepts that the other team scored because those are the rules.

56 Katie Parry's boobies like to be caressed with beautiful prose

57 @3
Yeah, I thought it was obvious.

I also thought it was the only right answer for the governor of one state - who is not a declared POTUS candidate - to make about what was happening in another state.

I do want to hear him comment on how the administration handled (blew off) DOMA, though.  From what I've read, Texas (under Perry) has a law patterned after DOMA. 

58 sp........ parse that

59 CONNNNNNNSSSSSSS!

60 >>>Let's face it people, if Perry is our candidate Social Cons will be voting for him. But the current question is if he can appeal to enough of the base to be the candidate. As a general election position, this is good, but as a primary one, it's problematic. "Problematic" doesn't mean "bad." It just means problematic. Some problems can be overcome or fixed.

61

>>>Let's face it people, if Perry is our candidate Social Cons will be voting for him.

But the current question is if he can appeal to enough of the base to be the candidate.

As a general election position, this is good, but as a primary one, it's problematic.

"Problematic" doesn't mean "bad." It just means problematic. Some problems can be overcome or fixed.

I agree, but the counter to that is Mitt Romney. He's the other "front runner".

So, let's say Perry wins Iowa and NH goes for Romney, who do you think the Socons will back in tha two man race?

Obviously it all hinges on Perry beating Bachmann and the others in the early races, but if he can get it to a two man race, I think the socons will line up behind him like they did for Huckabee in 2008.

62
I disagree with Ace on the need to pander to social conservatives. Here's why: You pretty much automatically have their vote if UNLESS you do something to lose their vote.

In other words, by default you have the social con vote in the general election. But if you open your mouth and reveal that your position is against them...

63 When did "Eyeore" show up on the thread?   Why is there always a "problem?"
For God's sake just let the man breathe.  I will not tolerate another McCain being nominated this time around.  Either get on the bus or get off, period. Enough sniping about every little fucking thing.

How's that T-Paw thing working out?

64 As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.  Personally, I like that about him. He comes across as a nice guy on the campaign trail, but he gets things done behind the scenes.

65 Perry doesn't seem mean, but apparently is mean. Politics ain't beanbag, as they say. That's just Texas football. Well, that and a clothesline tackle.

66 >>>So, let's say Perry wins Iowa and NH goes for Romney, who do you think the Socons will back in tha two man race? Although I support Perry, I think you are getting ahead of yourself. You are forgetting that Bachmann has a strong appeal to social conservatives, and is poised to win Iowa. The whole reason I'm supporting Perry is that I *imagine* he can appeal to most segments of the party. He has to pull some of Bachmann's voters, the same as he has to pull some of Romney's.

67 Damn these conservative activists and the way they control the party nomination by forcing on us nominees like ultra conservative pandering social cons such as John McCain.

68

Democratics use social issues to manipulate the population. They are experts at it. The dumbass Republicans are stupid enough to fall for it e-v-e-r-y-t-i-m-e.

Go ahead people...make Gay Marriage an issue and watch Obama and the Deomcrats get their Super Majority back in 2012.

 

69 Yo morons/moronettes!!  Sorry for the o/t, but I went from being laid off to having a better job in two f'ing weeks!  I'm so thankful for my good fortune...

70 As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.  Personally, I like that about him. He comes across as a nice guy on the campaign trail, but he gets things done behind the scenes.
Posted by: Lauren

Works for me.  You need a bastard in the WH to twist arms.  Politics ain't for pussies and whiners.  LBJ was a master at arm twisting.

71

@ nevergiveup, you wrote:
"Ya know I am fine with people being very concerned with Social Issues like Abortion, Gay Marriage, and Yada Yada Yada. But if we "Conservatives" continue to make these issues a litmus test and front and center, we're gonna continue to turn off many center non-aligned voters. And we really can't afford to do that. We really have to start looking at the big picture"

If these issues are so damaging, why does "gay marriage" lose everytime it is put to a vote?  Why do the polls continue to show that the country is becoming more pro-life.  I can buy into the argument that at the federal level we should focus on federal issues.  And next election should be about BO and his lousy economy.  But as a general rule, social conservatives tend to be fiscal conservatives, and more centrist, tend to be less fiscally conservative.  Why if you are willing to compromise on some core issues just to get along, certainly you will be willing to compromise on things such as taxes and spending. 

So I'm with you that we should focus more on the big picture stuff.  But I see no reason to compromise at the nomination level. 

72 >>>Yo morons/moronettes!! Sorry for the o/t, but I went from being laid off to having a better job in two f'ing weeks! I'm so thankful for my good fortune... You're welcome.

73 I am trying to remember the last Social Con President.  George Washington?

74 @64
Depends on if the other candidates want us to get Obama out of the White House enough to drop out in a timely fashion and support Perry. 

I think Bachmann, Palin, and Perry are going for overlapping votes.  I think that Palin's "will run if no good conservative runs" 'pledge' from quite a while back will lead her to not enter the race.  If she doesn't run, that's in effect an endorsement of Perry, imho. 

Then the question becomes do people really decide to vote for someone from the House of Representatives when they have a Governor as an option?  I dunno, to me it seems obvious they'll go for Perry. And I would hope Bachmann would drop out at that point. 

Pawlenty shows no signs of catching on and Romney (foolishly) is running as if he already has the nomination sewn up. 

75 Urkel, kiss my ass...

76 OT: From today's back-and-forth between FOX News' Ed Henry and White House press secretary Jay Carney. Carney says the GOP is being "incredibly juvenile" for trying to force his plan through the Congress to the President's desk. Carney claims they are "trying to stick the President with default." Carney calls the House GOP proposal "more Draconian" than the [Rep. Paul] Ryan budget bill.

77 Posted by: The Mega Independent at July 28, 2011 01:45 PM (mXnsm)

Expect a four hundred page screed about how 'purists' forced McCain on us because we wouldn't accept that nice fellow with the wonderful hair.

78

Yo morons/moronettes!!  Sorry for the o/t, but I went from being laid off to having a better job in two f'ing weeks!  I'm so thankful for my good fortune...

Congratulations, 1066! (What part of the country are you in, anyway?)

79 Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC): "I've said time and time again, if the President gets up to August 2nd, without a piece of legislation, he should not allow this country to go into default. He should sign an executive order invoking the 14th Amendment and send that to all the governmental agencies for us to continue to pay our bills. He could do that with a stroke of a pen. "We've seen many big things done in history that way. I joked with my staff the other day, telling what was the bill number of the Emancipation Proclamation, it was an executive order. We integrated the armed services by executive order. We integrated public schools by executive order. Sometimes executives must order that things get done." We should be concentrating our fire on jackasses like this

80 Federalism is my number one issue, even beyond the economy or debt, because a return to state sovereignty would help fix many of these issues.  It's nice to see a politician finally bring up this issue.

81

But the current question is if he can appeal to enough of the base to be the candidate.

As a general election position, this is good, but as a primary one, it's problematic.

"Problematic" doesn't mean "bad." It just means problematic. Some problems can be overcome or fixed.

I'm not seeing much in the way of a problem with Perry's stance on this issue, Ace. Seems to me he's straddling the fence in a Constitutional way and appealing to the middle and cons at the same time. I like what someone else said upthread that he may not like it that the Eagles scored, but as long as the reciever landed in bounds according to the rules, he'll live with it.

That's a breath of fresh air, especially in our current political environment of favoritism and interpretation, evasion and twisting of the law.

82 I'm in Denver!  Grew up in the midwest but would rather lose my right arm than leave here!

83

As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to William Weld?

84 >>I disagree with Ace on the need to pander to social conservatives. Here's why: You pretty much automatically have their vote if UNLESS you do something to lose their vote.


You have to remember that social cons aren't not only important for their votes, they're also needed for their campaigning efforts.

85
Weld endorsed Obama in '08.

86 I've given men a lot of hell over their support over She-who-shall-not-be-named. In the same vein, I should be honest on the flip side -

A lot of women will dig him solely for the fact that he's not a mom jeans/bike helmet wearing effeminate arugula eating pantywaist girlie man that has been neutered.

Can't discount that part of the quotient.

Us wimmin aren't too bright with our votes but it I think that will actually work in his favor. 

87

 Yo morons/moronettes!!  Sorry for the o/t, but I went from being laid off to having a better job in two f'ing weeks!  I'm so thankful for my good fortune...

Congratulations. Let the Valu-Rite flow...

88 He walked it back? He WALKED IT BACK!!!???

That's it, game over man. Freakin' flip flopper. He needs to be flogged then thrown in a jail cell in Brownsville for the next 7 years, with only an ipod of obama's speeches to keep him company.

feckin' squish.

Oh, and I'm concerned, too.

89 so far 15 minute vote on debt ceiling and bill,  split by party
all dems nay, reps yay

90 "Politics ain't beanbag, as they say." -- Orlando Brown may have a comment on that.

91
I'll be really surprised if Heath Shuler votes nay.

92 BackwardsBoy: what's flowin' now is Pisco...more or less a south american brandy...goes down like gatorade.

93 What I meant to say is that social cons are important for their organizational skills and ability to get out the vote. We need them to be active in the next election.

94 As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

Excellent, excellent news.

95 Federalism is my number one issue, even beyond the economy or debt, because a return to state sovereignty would help fix many of these issues.

Amen to that.

96 uh oh, two Nay republicans

97   We need a Drill Instructor President, not a Camp Counselor President.

98 not voting sorta evenbly split 47- 40 odd.

99 But the current question is if he can appeal to enough of the base to be the candidate.

As a general election position, this is good, but as a primary one, it's problematic.

"Problematic" doesn't mean "bad." It just means problematic. Some problems can be overcome or fixed. 

He has a clear record as governor and already has the credibility and a greater stature than anyone other than Romney (I do not think Palin will run). He is essentially even with Romney right now without having announced and IMO there are a lot of primary voters sitting on the sidelines right now who want someone they can support. IMO it's a major reason why Romney hasn't sewn this thing up and why Bachmann's numbers exploded after that last debate. I think there are many who feel fine with Romney as an electable figure but would prefer someone else. Perry will fill that role.

100 Can't discount that part of the quotient.

You're right, it counts for something. He's a good looking guy. That'll help with the women vote.

101 lacey

I agree and women can tell the difference between a real man who will stand up and the pussy who hides behind his wife in his mom jeans.

102 on the not voting reps and dems, If this is so important why are some not voting?

103 Damn these conservative activists and the way they control the party nomination by forcing on us nominees like ultra conservative pandering social cons such as John McCain.

Posted by: The Mega Independent

 

We did that out of hobbit.

104 80 OT: From today's back-and-forth between FOX News' Ed Henry and White House press secretary Jay Carney. Carney says the GOP is being "incredibly juvenile" for trying to force his plan through the Congress to the President's desk. Carney claims they are "trying to stick the President with default." Carney calls the House GOP proposal "more Draconian" than the [Rep. Paul] Ryan budget bill.

Posted by: Cheri at July 28, 2011 01:48 PM (oiNtH)

then they should submit the Ryan bill right away for a vote. Im sure they will get right on voting for it and the Boss will sign it into law, hunh?

105

@101

You seem to refuse to recognize that unless there is a Super-Majority in the House and Senate with a Republican Prez....Republicans take the blame for the trap laid by Democrats, and Democrats get their Super Majorities back in 2016.

106 Perry is being consistent here by saying he's against gay marriage but states have the right to decide. While I think this approach will ultimately cause some problems, it doesn't affect my opinion that Perry seems like the best candidate.

107 If these issues are so damaging, why does "gay marriage" lose everytime it is put to a vote?  Why do the polls continue to show that the country is becoming more pro-life.

A candidate can do fine if they're pro life and anti gay marriage.  But if they're seen as bullying gays and pregnant teens, that's extremely damaging to them with independents.  Nobody likes a bully.

None of this is a problem for Democrats, which is why Obama's opposition to gay marriage only helped him.  But the media is always looking to make Republicans look like mean bullying haters, "going after" gay men and teenage girls.

So, yeah, these issues are dangerous to social conservatives.  I think Perry is smart to put states rights first, to alleviate some of the fear the media will try to whip up about him.

108

 BackwardsBoy: what's flowin' now is Pisco...more or less a south american brandy...goes down like gatorade.

Sounds like some of the good shit. Guinness goes down like Gatorade for me, too. Maybe things will start to turn around for all the other funemployed morons...

109 Although I support Perry, I think you are getting ahead of yourself. You are forgetting that Bachmann has a strong appeal to social conservatives, and is poised to win Iowa.


This means jack.

In 2008, Huck won the Iowa primary, followed by Romney. McCain came in fourth, IIRC.

110 93 so far 15 minute vote on debt ceiling and bill,  split by party
all dems nay, reps yay

This is just the rules package.

Also, Roll Call has reported that the Senate will defeat the plan tonight, if the present House vote count holds.

111

@101

You seem to refuse to recognize that unless there is a Super-Majority in the House and Senate with a Republican Prez....Republicans take the blame for the trap laid by Democrats, and Democrats get their Super Majorities back in 2016.

Posted by: Jimi

Not if unemployment is still hovering around 9% as I predict it will.  Obamacare kicks in and destroys the economy even more. Again, It's The Economy Stupid.

112 Yo morons/moronettes!!  Sorry for the o/t, but I went from being laid off to having a better job in two f'ing weeks!  I'm so thankful for my good fortune...

Posted by: model_1066

 

Congratulations! This calls for you buying a round of drinks for the house.

113

BackwardsBoy: what's flowin' now is Pisco...more or less a south american brandy...goes down like gatorade.

Newman's Own Mango Tango Juice makes an awesome yungeño. Always serve with ice.

Cheers!

114  Without Rick Perry, all those movies where he dresses up like a big black lady would be teh suck.

115 Dr, Spank i agree they are a large voting block and their issues are important .

116 apparently he's recovering from back surgery, so maybe that's why he's holding off until August, he wants to heal properly and look heallthy for his debut

117

I'm not saying Perry was pandering, but let this be a lesson to all GOP candidates: Resist the urge to pander to social cons.

------

That's terrible advice. How the hell are you going to win the nomination w/o the social cons? The general..maybe. The primary, not a chance in a hell.

Anyway, I'm ok with Perry's position because it's my position. If gay marriage were up for debate in my state I'd fight like hell to keep it out, but it isn't the place of the federal government to decide.

118
Reid dismisses the passed House bill at his and Obama's peril.

Boehner, rightfully, is gonna fold up shop and say, Good night, jerks, default is now on your heads alone."

119 110 Perry is being consistent here by saying he's against gay marriage but states have the right to decide. While I think this approach will ultimately cause some problems, it doesn't affect my opinion that Perry seems like the best candidate.   I sense the vile presence of a RINO!    Seriously, if this..whatever it is is all it takes to keep people from voting against the JEF (should Perry, God willing, be our nominee), then we are truely lost. 
As some bicker over this... U.S. accuses Iran of pact with al-Qaida to move money, arms, fighters to Afghanistan, Pakistan - @WSJhttp://on.wsj.com/qBakoA

120 As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.


Again, I really, really want to see Perry debate King Putt.

121 Clyburn should think hard about what he is saying. If Obama does what Clyburn suggests, then Obama will be in rebellion against the United States.

122 One quick question, are people outside of Texas familiar with Aggie jokes?

If so, get ready to hear a lot of them.

123 Some of us social cons even have all of our teeth and nary a Confederate Battle Flag to be seen anywhere at home.

124

@115

"Not if unemployment is still hovering around 9% as I predict it will.  Obamacare kicks in and destroys the economy even more. Again, It's The Economy Stupid."

What? You're confusing me...you're agreeing with my analysis! No Republican will prevent the pain from coming. The Democrats have desinged this so that the pain kicks in on Obama's second term, and if that second term is occupied by a Republican....then the Republicans take the blame. Just because we win the Presidency doesn't mean Jack Shit!

125 i really suck at typing, i should apologise for everyone putting up with it.

126 I am a little sick and tired of social conservatives who, when confronted with logical, well grounded constitutional arguments which don't comport with their desired outcome, flame the speaker.

You can not make arguments in a bubble. Especially, constitutional arguments. Most have ramifications far beyond one particular issue. In this regard Perry is exactly right on the Tenth Amendment.

You can't have it both ways.

127 apogize to everyone.

128 o damn whaeverer

129 127 Some of us social cons even have all of our teeth and nary a Confederate Battle Flag to be seen anywhere at home.   Pics or it didn't happen.

130

Boehner, rightfully, is gonna fold up shop and say, Good night, jerks, default is now on your heads alone."

Boehner should go on every tv station and send out the the A team of Paul, Rubio and Christie and make it clear that Obama talked about compromise and that the Republicans have put forward multiple plans, passed two through the house and had them all voted down by democrats.  And also bring up the fact they have made no real counter offers.

We need to stick it to Obama as it looks like nothing is going to be passed in time.

Now excuse me while I got unload my stocks.

131 apparently he's recovering from back surgery, so maybe that's why he's holding off until August, he wants to heal properly and look heallthy for his debut


It was a minor surgery (one I've had myself) and the docs usually want you up and moving ASAP, so I'm not sure that's the reason.

132
stop digging, kiddo

133 Reid dismisses the passed House bill at his and Obama's peril.

Boehner, rightfully, is gonna fold up shop and say, Good night, jerks, default is now on your heads alone."

Posted by: soothsayer at July 28, 2011 02:02 PM (sqkOB)

Why would he do that, when he could have done it with CCB?

I think Boehner is going to offer another deal.

134

So Harry says they kill the bill tonight.

I'd like Gabe to come and tell me one more time I should support a dead bill that is far, far weaker than the previously dead bill.

I mean, the rationale for going with the Boehner plan was that it could pass. Wrong on that one, boys.

So now that you've lost that single positive for the Boehner, I should support it why?

135 Perry is offering a position that will be strong in the general election, but might be problematic in the primary before it.

If Palin endorses him, and I think she will, the question is moot.

136

One quick question, are people outside of Texas familiar with Aggie jokes?

They all got turned into Auburn jokes when they passed the Alabama state line.

Did I mention that we Alabamians are kinda lazy?

137 What does JEF stand for?  I keep seeing that acronym.  Or is it one of those things I'm better off not knowing?  Hmm...  On second thought, since this is AoS HQ, forget I asked.

138
Rich, I am referring to the insincere and bend-over-backwards pandering.

139 Some of us social cons even have all of our teeth and nary a Confederate Battle Flag to be seen anywhere at home.
Posted by: sifty

sifty sure but when was the last time you mowed your lawn, or moved that metal car lawn ornament

140 128

No.  If we get a STRONG Republican in the WH with a majority in the Senate and the House we can turn back quite a bit of the shit sandwich that has been forced down our throats by the Dems.  The markets will immediately respond and employers might just be inclined to use some of the cash they are sitting on right now  to expand because they are too afraid of this administration.   In the end if we get this chance and fuck up we deserve what we get.

141

124 As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

Again, I really, really want to see Perry debate King Putt.

Put that beatdown on Pay-Per View and you'll raise enough money to put a sizable payment down on the National Debt. 

142

 Some of us social cons even have all of our teeth and nary a Confederate Battle Flag to be seen anywhere at home.

Heretic!

143 the republican posse looked pretty good up there at that there presser.

And of course, the beguiling press pointed out to them right away that they had lost before they'd begun but that didn't seem to phase them.  Then CNBC followed up with Kaye hutchinson who hit it out of the park explaining the differences between the posse and the posers.

144 3 Ummm, I thought it was very clear that the fine with me referred to a state deciding the issue for itself.  Apparently not. 

Posted by: alexthechick at July 28, 2011 01:23 PM (VtjlW)

Yeah, for a moment my hopes were up as well.  Ah well, better to have your hopes strangled in their crib than later when you've become attached.

145 Which highly-visible soccons are fiscal tightwads?  Bush certainly wasn't.  Huckabee wasn't.  I'm sure there are some out there.

146

I know this is not going to win me a lot of friends here, but this stuff on Perry just frustrates me.  Here's a guy who has had a lot lof luck, and you can't get elected three times in a state as big as Texas without doing a decent job, but he is mostly just a really good campaigner with good political instincts who has ridden, but not led, a conservative wave in his state and the nation.  Why would that make him a good President?  I have no idea.  Do we need another GOP nominee from Texas?  Do we have any doubt than any GOP nominee will carry Texas in 2012?  Yet Perry is untouched by conservatives because he says the right stuff about abortion and homos.

Meanwhile you had Mitch Daniels sitting there with just as good a track record in his state - a state which Obama carried and the GOP must win back to have any chance in 2012.  He de-funded Planned Parenthood.  He created an entirely new health care program for state workers that saved millions.  His state avoided the kind of debt and spending crises that have engulfed all of the states surrounding his.  All that, and he has actually worked in a national government and even been a federal budget director.  He could have ridden that experience into a big-bucks Washington lobbying gig, but he chose to go back home to Indiana and make it a better place.   You would think that with those credentials, people would have been lining up to support him for President.

But Daniels made one comment about a "truce" on social issues, and BAM!  Out came the long knives.

 

147 @141 Jug-Eared Fool Feel free to sub whatever four-lettered "F" word you want in the last slot. (Hint: The three used here, "feel," "free," and "four" don't make a lot of sense)

148 One quick question, are people outside of Texas familiar with Aggie jokes?



Heh. They get recycled. Have friend in Michigan and he's heard most them, only they're about the 'yoopers'

149
I think Boehner is going to offer another deal.

It's a possibility but I doubt it.

Heh. First we got the CCB. Now Boehner's trying just the CC. If that fails, what's next, C?

150 Rush reporting House just passed test vote on Boehner's bill.

151

If Palin endorses him, and I think she will, the question is moot.

-------

I find this odd that an entire group of people will do exactly what a person whom they've never met in real life tells them to do. I mean, seriously, just because you like Palin means you are going to flock to the person she endorses? I voted for Huckabee last time (mistake, I know) but I didn't give a shit who he endorsed in the general.

152 I hope he's mean, in a nice, appealing way.

153 95
I'll be really surprised if Heath Shuler votes nay.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 28, 2011 01:53 PM (sqkOB)

That would make it a bi-partisan vote..haha, one can dream it would be reported that way

154 As for Perry being mean, the general consensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

That suits me just fine. I'd rather vote for an a--hole than a milquetoast wimp. I'd also rather see that a--hole debate the a--hole we have running the place now.

Bring on the popcorn.

155 Seems to me he's straddling the fence in a Constitutional way and appealing to the middle and cons at the same time.

The middle of what?

"I'm against it, but the Constitution says it's fine, so oh well" is the middle of non-Democrat opinion. The stupidly valorized electoral bloc of TV-addicted idiots that's called the "middle" knows that saying anything even mildly condemnatory about anything gay-related is socially unacceptable, and even if they share Perry's unacceptable opinion, they'll hold it against him, whether they know they do or not. Because they're idiots.

And he's lost them. All Republicans do, because being a Republican is itself socially unacceptable—even to Republicans. So all attempts to pander to that "middle" are, at best, futile. And usually they're worse than that, because they tend to disgust or depress chunks of the right.

Perry's done nothing, net, with this—except annoy me, because his unnecessary non-clarification is dumber than the first thing he said.

156 mpfs:
If we get a STRONG Republican in the WH with a majority in the Senate and the House we can turn back quite a bit of the shit sandwich that has been forced down our throats by the Dems.

True.  But instead, we'll probably get Mitt Romney in the White House, and Democrats controlling the Senate.  Awesome!

Honestly, Congress is way more important than the White House.  I'd rather win the Senate and lose the White House than the other way around.

157 So I guess all the air is sucked out of the Michele Bachmann balloon, huh?

158 151 You raise some good points but don't forget Daniels flirted with VAT talk. Repeatedly.

159 Because Mitch Daniels isn't running and T-Paw is about as appealing a a dishrag.

160 Honestly, Congress is way more important than the White House.  I'd rather win the Senate and lose the White House than the other way around.


Point taken.

161 As for Perry being mean, the general consensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

Great.  Maybe this time we can get someone who's willing to be an asshole to the other side rather than just his own side.

162 Heh. First we got the CCB. Now Boehner's trying just the CC. If that fails, what's next, C?

Posted by: soothsayer at July 28, 2011 02:08 PM (sqkOB)

I think a no-strings debt ceiling raise timed for six months.  What's really important to everybody isn't the number amounts, since those are fake, it's when the next vote will be.  Boehner wants it to be during the 2012 campaign.  Barry wants it after.

163 You are all forgetting the true conservative candidate in this race.  Guaranteed to last longer than four hours.

164 _{sifty sure but when was the last time you mowed your lawn, or moved that metal car lawn ornament}


Using an old car in the front yard as a chicken coop is a sustainable, smart, green way to recycle a car.

By never mowing my lawn, I create a lush wetland wildlife preserve which promotes bio-diversity.

Country folk have always been light-years ahead of the curve on ecology.

165 Great.  Maybe this time we can get someone who's willing to be an asshole to the other side rather than just his own side.

Posted by: Ace's liver at July 28, 2011 02:11 PM (XIXhw)

Stop looking at me like that!

166

Perry's done nothing, net, with this—except annoy me, because his unnecessary non-clarification is dumber than the first thing he said.

----------

So he should say what? Better yet, what is your stance?

167 3 large coffees and 3 Aleve are all that is keeping me going today

168 We saw what happens in 2008 when a candidate is so intoxicated with his own "honor" he won't be mean to his opponent.

The politician I despise the most is Barack Obama. Right behind him is John McCain, whose twisted, demented views of honor and incessant sniggering at his own little bon mots literally nauseate me.

It was McCain who personally intervened when the Swift Boat Veterans were going to have a press conference to point out that John Kerry had his medals reinstated in 1979, which means they were take away at some point. McCain asked them to not mention this because it was "dishonorable," and they acquiesced.

I'm a big fan of always telling the truth and letting the chips far where they may. Telling the truth is always honorable.

169 I wish we could have someone who would crush Lindsy Graham like a bug.

170 Rick Perry isn't a social (read: Christian) conservative.  He's a conservative who's Christian (at least, that's my take).

And he's been pretty solidly 10th Amendment for quite a while.  I don't know that it was his focus during the Bush years (though he noted it occasionally even then), but it's become a pretty major thing for him over the last 3 or so.

171 Posted by: SH at July 28, 2011 01:39 PM (gmeXX) As I said on the previous thread, I think the 10th amendment position is the best we're going to do right now on social issues, so it's not a deal breaker for me. But as far as Daniels goes, I don't think his problem was that people thought he was squishy on the social stuff so much as his "truce" comment would unnecessarily paint him into a corner. After all, some of these social issues do overlap fiscal ones. Like federal funding for abortion. Go after that and the libs would have crucified him for violating his "truce" on social issues.

172 I don't understand how it's pandering myself. As Rich says, this is my position too. I am against gay marriage on policy grounds but I also believe this is a state issue. Historically states and only the states have promulgated the laws of marriage (and divorce, and inheritance, and estates, and all the rest of it). Let me suggest to people who are strongly anti-gay-marriage: If you insist on federalizing this, you might not like the outcome, because the current momentum is in favor of it. Your one-law-fits-all solution might give you the exact outcome exactly opposite of the one you desire.

173 oh that was me.

174 173 I wish we could have someone who would crush Lindsy Graham like a bug.

Posted by: mpfs at July 28, 2011 02:13 PM (iYbLN)

Why does anyone vote for this guy?

175

I voted for Huckabee last time (mistake, I know) but I didn't give a shit who he endorsed in the general.

You might want to keep that under your hat.  It tends to undermine anything else you might say.

176 As for Perry being mean, the general consensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

Good. I hope he goes to Washington and grabs people by the throat and short-hairs.

I am through electing whimpy, smooth-talking shitheads with no balls.

177 Even for non-Beck fans, you need to go over to rightscoop and watch his clip from earlier today just crushing McCain. At the end he says some pretty hilarious stuff about McCain and Graham.

178

@144

I think your version is possible, but just a little on the naive side. Obama's intention is to crash the economy, Cloward-Piven, you can't create a Command & Control Government until you mortally wound the Free-Market System.

It would take an entire term before all this stuff gets sorted out, if it even does, because the Demcorats and the media will fight you every step of the way, and Republicans will be perceived as the problem bouncing off the current "Bush's Fault" narrative, and Republicans will get their ass handed to them in 2016.

179

But Daniels made one comment about a "truce" on social issues, and BAM!  Out came the long knives.

 

Posted by: rockmom at July 28, 2011 02:08 PM (lSyyU)

Its his weak hair line thats weak sauce.

180 You might want to keep that under your hat.

Yeah, really.  I mean, I've cast some stupid votes in my life, too.  But I do the mature thing and lie about it now.  That's what the secret ballot is for.

181

The middle of what?

I'm of the same opinion of "the middle" that you are, I think. I've roundly criticized them before as easily led and prone to follow the masses as they did in '08. I'm not a big fan of their having being courted by Juan McLame's squishiness either.

But it's a political reality that they must be appealed to if we're to have any chance at taking back Washington in '012. I just think that Perry did it right, that's all.

182 I am against gay marriage on policy grounds but I also believe this is a state issue. Historically states and only the states have promulgated the laws of marriage (and divorce, and inheritance, and estates, and all the rest of it).

That's my take on it as well.  However, marriage gets a bit tricky because in the past states have unconditionally recognized marriages legal in other states.

183 As for Perry being mean, the general consensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole. Good. Compassionate stupidism didn't help us too much.

184

You might want to keep that under your hat.  It tends to undermine anything else you might say.

-------

No, no, tell me out of the three who had a shot by the time my state voted, which of them was a better choice? McCain? Romney? I mean, those were three. You suck it up and vote for one.

I guess I could have thrown the vote away on Ron Paul, but that's exactly what it would have been, a throw-away vote.

185 One quick question, are people outside of Texas familiar with Aggie jokes?

Yes, but they call them Blonde jokes.

I also have another possible take on this.  We know that when Democrats (including the media) are confronted about something they said, their explanation is always, "I'm sorry you're so stupid you didn't understand the magnificent brilliance of my oh-so-nuanced statement."

What if this is just the opposite.  Suppose Perry knew he'd been clear enough (he had), and was asked this stupid question.  While we might have liked the answer: "FYNQ," or some version of the Democrat standard response, isn't it better for him to say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I made that clear enough.  Since I obviously didn't, here's what I was trying to say."

Isn't that pretty well what the Democrats say, but this time insulting the person asking the question, instead of insulting the audience?

Just an idea.

186
Totally off-topic silly link.

Parse this.
http://tinyurl.com/3velpw7

187 T-Paw.

Because nothing says leadership more than a nickname based on the bottom of a foot.

188

Rand Paul, "I'd rather be a hobbit than a troll"

 

suck on that mccain.

189 You want to understand how Perry campaigns? He cut his teeth in the Democrat machine as a conservative Texas Democrat. He didn't leave until the mid-Clinton years and came to the Republican party. He knows their games. He knows how far they will go. He knows that if he wants to win, he goes just as far and then a little further. Like Patton (should have) said, "Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I READ YOUR BOOK!"

190 I think it's a fine position - we know what his heart says, and there is no point in getting involved with positions on things that will be outside of the scope of his control. It's just a distraction to be used as a weapon against him.

191 Republicans will get their ass handed to them in 2016.

Posted by: Jimi at July 28, 2011 02:17 PM (JMsOK)

If the R's start doing the stuff needed to right the ship and they get sent packing...let it crash then..the populace is too stupid and it won't get fixed..ever.

192

I find this odd that an entire group of people will do exactly what a person whom they've never met in real life tells them to do. I mean, seriously, just because you like Palin means you are going to flock to the person she endorses? I voted for Huckabee last time (mistake, I know) but I didn't give a shit who he endorsed in the general.

Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 02:09 PM (wnGI4)

Its not odd.  Not all of her supporters are automatically going to go to Perry.  Not everyone is up to date on all candidates, so if the candidate you do like and know about says "this other guy is just as good as me" that's going to be a signal to a lot of people to at least look into the guy and consider supporting him.

And really its so odd?  Are you sure you aren't just looking to bash Palin's supporters?  Because it seems like a lot of people out there seek endorsements from various people and groups, and gaining them is usually considered news.

193 171 3 large coffees and 3 Aleve are all that is keeping me going today

Posted by: nevergiveup at July 28, 2011 02:13 PM (i6RpT)

yes I know, it's not in my best interest buster.....

194 Actually, if we conservatives could get our heads wrapped around the idea that it is not the business of the federal government to decide social issues like marriage and abortion, then we could get busy decreasing the size of government.

195

The politician I despise the most is Barack Obama. Right behind him is John McCain, whose twisted, demented views of honor and incessant sniggering at his own little bon mots literally nauseate me.

Like in 2000 when he kept calling his former captors "g00x"? Was that one of his little bon mots?

196 >>>The stupidly valorized electoral bloc of TV-addicted idiots that's called the "middle" knows that saying anything even mildly condemnatory about anything gay-related is socially unacceptable, and even if they share Perry's unacceptable opinion, they'll hold it against him, whether they know they do or not. Because they're idiots. I'm really curious why you think other people's sexual habits are your concern. I generally here some convoluted, extenuated policy arguments with regard to homosexuality. I think they're pretty thin. I think what is really going on is that some people just don't like homosexuality, and realize that animus itself is not palatable, and so subscribe to a litany of "policy" arguments against it to rail against homosexuality. Every single thing on earth has some kind of secondary effect so I can't say that homosexuality (or tolerance thereof) has NO secondary effects. However, they seem pretty damn extenuated to me. It's one thing to oppose gay marriage and other measures which involve the direct intervention of the state. But this general roiling against gays for being gay -- how, honestly, does someone else's homosexuality affect you? Tangibly, I mean? It seems to bother some that it exists; well, it bothers liberals that you have guns. A lot of pure bullshit politics consists of identifying the things we don't like and then attempting to sheathe those personal preferences in some kind of bullshitty policy position. I guess I am becoming much more libertarian. I am really growing weary of the habit people have of making others' lives and choices a matter of "politics." it's not politics, not in terms of genuine concerns of the state and the polity. It's just personal likes and dislikes being given some very think "political" pretext. Oppose gay marriage; I do. Oppose any state intervention to favor or encourage homosexuality. All of that is proper. But how is someone else's sex life your business?

197 Does anyone know how to turn my rabbit ears so I can pick up MSNBC?  The trailer walls are getting in the way.

198 The bloom may be coming off the Bachmann bandwagon. And, in fairness, a few missteps and the bloom may come off the Perry bandwagon.

Okay buddy, that's five in the penalty box.

199

And really its so odd?  Are you sure you aren't just looking to bash Palin's supporters?  Because it seems like a lot of people out there seek endorsements from various people and groups, and gaining them is usually considered news.

-------------

No, I'm bashing the notion that these sort of endorsements are total game-changers. The only people I think they help are folks who have small name recognition. That's not Rick Perry.

So, I think Palin supporters are like the rest of us and they won't just flock to Perry because Palin says so.

200 Good. I hope he goes to Washington and grabs people by the throat and short-hairs.

I am through electing whimpy, smooth-talking shitheads with no balls.
Posted by: Marcus


Amen to that.

201 I don't like men that are poised.

202

@195

"If the R's start doing the stuff needed to right the ship and they get sent packing...let it crash then..the populace is too stupid and it won't get fixed..ever."

That's the point! If the damage is done, or it is not reasonable to fix with the type pf people we are going to be able to get in office...the question comes down to.....who deserves the responsiblity, and after the dust settles what is it exactly the American People want for a Government and Economy. You got to force them to pick, and until they understand what is at stake...they will not!

We put a soft republican in office with small majorites in the House and Senate, nothing is going change and they will be the ones who Captain the ship into the depths of the Ocean.

203 I guess I am becoming much more libertarian. I am really growing weary of the habit people have of making others' lives and choices a matter of "politics."

Posted by: ace at July 28, 2011 02:22 PM (pbzFf)

even the libs/dems are wary of the "social issues" while they are beign told that the country is on a dangerous precipice.  When you are going over a cliff does it really matter what the person next to you sexual orientation is.  What really matters is their expertise in helping you avoid the cliff.  

More and more people are wishing that this kind of stuff was just not a part of the big picture.

204 Oh and who Huckabee endorsed in the last election didn't matter anyways because he stayed in until the end so his only endorsement choices were going to be John McCain or Ron Paul!!

205 Say, anyone want to invest in "Don't blame me, I voted for Perry!" stickers?

206
We have Top Men on that.
- Ball Checker Union

207 205 Good. I hope he goes to Washington and grabs people by the throat and short-hairs.

I am through electing whimpy, smooth-talking shitheads with no balls.
Posted by: Marcus

And doesn't act like he is having his period all the time.  Sorry gals had to say it.  O is just pissy.

208 Actually I think there's a good amount of. "Independents" who are so caught-up on the gay marriage thing that they completelty shut off. Voting for an R even if they are receptive to fiscal conservative arguments. Just a frustrating personal experience.

209 But how is someone else's sex life your business?

Not to tell you how to run your business, boss, but I wish we could stick to the politics of this and avoid the flame war.  You know it's coming.

I want to know people's take on whether this hurts, or whether it is another plus for Rick's hair.

210 So, I think Palin supporters are like the rest of us and they won't just flock to Perry because Palin says so.


How many PUMAs sucked it up and voted for Obama after Hillary endorsed him?

211

Oh and who Huckabee endorsed in the last election didn't matter anyways because he stayed in until the end so his only endorsement choices were going to be John McCain or Ron Paul!!

------

And the point is I have no idea which of those men he actually endorses, because I didn't give a shit. Now, my guess is it's probably John McCain, and that's an easy guess, but I couldn't actually tell you with certainty that he endorsed McCain, because his opinion on who I should vote for didn't matter to me.

212 As for Perry being mean, the general concensus around Austin is that he's a cut throat asshole.

There is a lot of mean in Texas.  ItÂ’s kind of normal, imo.  They say they make things big in Texas and they do.  Being mean helps to do big things, imo.  Like a chainsaw through bullshit.

213 OT:  From the Cato Institute: “The ‘cutsÂ’ in the Boehner plan are only cuts from the CBO baseline, which is an assumed path of constantly rising spending...

214 >>>No, I'm bashing the notion that these sort of endorsements are total game-changers. I believe they are, but not because people will automatically support that person. I believe most people employ a series of proxies (which they may not even be aware of) in limiting their menu of choices to those they consider "serious" candidates. There are currently 11 candidates (right? or not?) and there may be 3 more. Most people will not evaluate all 11 or 14 or whatever. They use a series of proxies to winnow the field down to 3 or 4 and then choose from what's left. Endorsements are very important in getting to that smaller field inside people's heads. Pawlenty was always a decent candidate. And the establishment trusted him, because he had a good track record. However, they were not enamored of him enough to actually endorse him. Had he had a welter of high-profile endorsements, he'd be in the Big Three right now. But he didn't. Perry will almost certainly be in the big three because of media interest and because of endorsements. People may not pick him on the basis of those endorsements, but they will regard him as worthy of consideration, which is half the battle.

215 When Harry Ried walks into a meeting in the Oval Office with the next Republican President, I want Harry to be just a tiny bit scared of leaving on a gurney.

216

How many PUMAs sucked it up and voted for Obama after Hillary endorsed him?

----------

Most of them would have done that anyway.

217 Posted by: ace at July 28, 2011 02:22 PM (pbzFf)

Exactly.

218 This thread is turning gay because Perry is, right?

219 We put a soft republican in office with small majorites in the House and Senate, nothing is going change and they will be the ones who Captain the ship into the depths of the Ocean.

And then people will start to believe that there is no alternative to statism, and we will follow Europe in their decline.

We need a real Reagan revolution.  The first one was co-opted and destroyed by men like George H.W. Bush and Trent Lott.  We need a second one, and we need it to work.

If Republicans win, but the results are mediocre, it's far worse than if Republicans lose.

220 Hope Pixie on point, you just got an Instalanche for your poll showing Perry in the lead.

221 Please don't turn this into a gay marriage/sex life flame thread ace.  I'm begging you don't poke that badger with a spoon today.

222
Honestly, Congress is way more important than the White House.  I'd rather win the Senate and lose the White House than the other way around.
Posted by: sandy burger at July 28, 2011 02:10 PM (XyoGP)
///
Then you have no idea about executive orders, and more importantly, the power of the Pres. to appoint all kinds of bureaucrats whose misdeeds live on and on and on.

223

A lot of women will dig him solely for the fact that he's not a mom jeans/bike helmet wearing effeminate arugula eating pantywaist girlie man that has been neutered.
posted by Laceyunderalls

I'd definately hit it.

224 I find this odd that an entire group of people will do exactly what a person whom they've never met in real life tells them to do. I mean, seriously, just because you like Palin means you are going to flock to the person she endorses? I voted for Huckabee last time (mistake, I know) but I didn't give a shit who he endorsed in the general.

It allows Palin a measure of continued relevance in the eyes of people who thought she was going to run.  Her endorsement would probably be a net negative if she stayed visible during his campaign but if it got conservatives to coalesce around Perry, fine.

Looking forward to Perry announcing and allowing this whole race to be shaken out once and for all.  Thus far it's been Mitt vs. Not-Mitt, with the Not-Mitts largely a group of non-starters who've been carving one another up.  Perry would likely be the Not-Mitt everyone has been looking for and would shake this out into a two-man race of clear contrasts.

225

Perry will almost certainly be in the big three because of media interest and because of endorsements. People may not pick him on the basis of those endorsements, but they will regard him as worthy of consideration, which is half the battle.

------------

Well maybe I'm just projecting my own way of doing things onto the rest of the electorate, but endorsements just do not factor in to my consideration. I mean, my top three candidates have nothing to do with who has an has not endorsed them.

226 >>>Not to tell you how to run your business, boss, but I wish we could stick to the politics of this and avoid the flame war. You know it's coming. True enough, I guess. But I think it's a worthy point to debate. Most of this stuff with gays is so extenuated as far as the claimed tangible effect on society. In the end, if you don't like gays, that's fine, but how does that rise to the level of an "issue" we must fight about? oblig.'s post begged the question: he implicitly dissed people unwilling to make "condemnatory" statements about gays. Why is it so damnably important to make condemnatory statements about any group of people?

227 I think what is really going on is that some people just don't like homosexuality, and realize that animus anus itself is not palatable,

I agree.

As an aside, the state has made people's sex lives (or it could be drug use or eating habits) our collective business by enshrining healthcare as a right. All of those practices mentioned are unhealthy and we pay for the result of that increased risk by subsidizing cost of care. Besides the fact a government should not have the power to  compel her citizens to buy a product, that is one of the primary reasons I oppose healthcare as some type of communal right. It becomes a vast slippery slope of diminished individual rights.

Otherwise, I could care less if people want to date a farm animal.

228 Most of them would have done that anyway.


After opening voicing their hatred for the Usurper?

Why was Hillary's endorsement so important to Obama? Why was it such a powerful bargaining chip for Hillary.

229 >>>The question is, why do they continually make it our business? In what sense? WRT to gay marriage? One can speak against gay marriage without crafting a larger framework for condemning homosexuality, or tying the "fight against homosexuality" into some grander scheme of governance. Honestly I see an awful lot of people looking to make it their business.

230 I'd definately hit it.

Put me in the camp of 'I get where you're coming from, really I do!, but he's my Dad's age, so....'

231 I understood his point easily. He is a 10th amendment guy. I don't view this as a "walk back" at all. If voters are gonna freak over the social issues then they aren't paying attention to the economy. IMHO....most, if not all, eyes are on the economy....gay marriage is not even a blip on the radar at this point.

232 How many PUMAs sucked it up and voted for Obama after Hillary endorsed him?

 Hillary supporters went about 80% for Obama. I know this only because my mother is an annoying PUMA.

233 Jeez, whoever voted for Jon Huntsman on Gabe's poll should be banned...for life.

234 And doesn't act like he is having his period all the time.  Sorry gals had to say it.  O is just pissy.

Yeah, but it only lasts for about 4 or 5 days each month, then he's fine. Well, maybe not...

235 I'd go gay for Rick Perry.

236 But how is someone else's sex life your business? That's the wrong question. The real question should be: What OTHER ridiculous ideas must we be forced to recognize as sane and proper? No one cares who you fuck. No one even cares that you want to visit them in the hospital, will your property to them or cohabitate. What people care about is being forced to redefine reality to suit the selfish emotional needs of a tiny minority. What's offensive is forcing everyone else to nod their heads and say, "Yes. What you are doing is completely normal." Being forced to redefine aberrant behavior as normal doesn't strike you as unreasonable? How about the bowfucker lady? That's certainly aberrant. We tolerate her humping the Eiffel Tower, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone demanding you legally recognize her relationship with inanimate objects as legal matrimony. But if 2% of the country applied enough pressure, you would? Words have meaning. It's stupid to legislate away reality. But it's easier and lazier to just call someone a bigot.

237 So I know voting for Huckabee looks bad on my part, but I'm not in an early state, and by the time Ohio rolled around it was clear it was down to three choices: Huckabee, McCain, and Romney. I mean, to me, Huckabee looks ok compared to those two clowns.

238 Please don't turn this into a gay marriage/sex life flame thread ace.

Since AoS HQ posters have little experience with the former, and no experience with the latter, it'd be a pretty clumsy flame war.

239

To be fair, there aren't enough gay characters in sitcoms.

240 Hillary supporters went about 80% for Obama. I know this only because my mother is an annoying PUMA.

Yeah, but I don't see that happening again. They're much more prone to buyer's remorse after getting cheated out of their candidate the first time.

241 Why is it so damnably important to make condemnatory statements about any group of people?

I'm not oblig, but I think the point he was getting at in his original post is that the media and the left are pushing this notion that saying anything remotely negative to a gay person is "H8" or "bashing", including opposition to gay marriage.  And the moderates do absorb this stuff.  He wasn't saying it's important to condemn gays, as far as I can tell.

242 I swoon before Empire of Jeff.

243 Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 02:35 PM (2tTzd)


EoJ, I want to have your babies.


That is all.

244 One can speak against gay marriage without crafting a larger framework for condemning homosexuality,

Really? It seems like the two are pretty linked to me. I mean, why oppose homosexual marriage if you don't oppose homosexuality? 

Full disclosure: I couldn't care less about homosexual marriage as long as churches aren't forced to perform ceremonies.

245

Well maybe I'm just projecting my own way of doing things onto the rest of the electorate, but endorsements just do not factor in to my consideration. I mean, my top three candidates have nothing to do with who has an has not endorsed them.

Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 02:31 PM (wnGI4)

Well if most people felt as you, then endorsements for candidates would not really qualify as news.  It does qualify as news, and sometimes pretty big news, so endorsements are likely important to the rest of the electorate.

246 In Mitch Daniels case, I had two problems. 1, I thought his truce statement was bad politics. You might say "politics is superficial," but this opening error suggested to me his political instincts were faulty, and that down the road we'd have more miscues. Good players in any sport have a great intuitive sense and feel for the game. Daniels' statement immediately made me question if he had that. 2. The "Truce" statement was entirely a political statement. Contrast that with Perry's, which has a similar political *effect*, but the statement itself speaks of substance, of the Constitution. It's not just saying "we shouldn't speak of these issues for tactical reasons," but is giving a good *why* these are not really federal-level concerns. It's a small difference but it changes the statement from what seems to be a concession to the left to something that instead pushes federalism, with its long and strong pedigree, as a positive value. 3. Ultimately Mitch Daniels begged out for other reasons (his wife, we think), so your implication that it was criticism of Daniels that drove him out is misplaced.

247 Honestly I see an awful lot of people looking to make it their business. Posted by: ace at July 28, 2011 02:33 PM (pbzFf)


Honestly ace, I see you as the one making it your business.  Why does this need to come up in this thread?  Just set up another one at let anyone who wants to comment/flame?

248 What EOJ at 243 said.

249 Never mind what I said @248, EOJ nailed it.

250 Gay marriage, like abortion, is red meat for the social right.  In fact, it's even redder meat b/c I'd venture to say there're more people who support abortion (being legal, not necessarily a recreational thing) than support gay marriage (esp. guys who get women pregnant and don't want to be fathers).  So, yeah, gay marriage is an easy way to whip up support, $, etc.

251 Oh. FFS! As a social conservative (Booh!), I gotta say, I could really give a rat's ass about teh gheys, Creationism, or even abortion badminton right now... Srsly, don't we have some more pressing issues to address? (I'm not saying more important, I'm saying more pressing.)

252 Gays are narcissists by nature.  They are incapable of not making who they fuck everyone else's business.

Which is why this argument is happening in the first place.

253 They're much more prone to buyer's remorse after getting cheated out of their candidate the first time.

Yeah.  They may not like to say it this way, but many Hillary Clinton supporters assumed she'd govern similarly to Bill Clinton.  Who, they'll recall, left office with a budget surplus.  Good times, good times.

(Yeah, whatever; we might claim that this was due to the GOP in Congress, or luck, or whatever, but the Clintonistas are unlikely to see it that way.)

254 By the way, the homosexuality issue cuts both ways. It's not that people give a fig about what they do in the privacy of their home. It is that their interest groups try to force acceptance of that behavior into public life. Whether it's teaching Johny has two Mommies in the classroom or teaching any aspect of homosexuality as part of the educational process.

I respect the moral religious teaching which say that homosexuality is wrong. The same way adultery, stealing, lying, etc. are wrong. But as a consequence of free will, people have the right to choose. It is when we try to institutionalize either the acceptance or denial of that behavior, as a matter of legislating morality or giving preeminence in an attempt to corrupt social mores, it crosses the line.  

255 Perry doesn't seem mean

Trust me, if he owes you money he is the meanest mo fo you will ever meet.

256

So, I think Palin supporters are like the rest of us and they won't just flock to Perry because Palin says so.

Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 02:24 PM (wnGI4)

 

Whether many want to admit it or not, Ms. Sarah has a lot of power among conservative voters.  If she decides not to run, then her endorsement of Perry would definitely charge his campaign (especially if she's involved directly of indirectly), not only with enthusiasm, but cash.  It's more of an exercise of re-directing focus, not blind acceptance.  

257 >>>Really? It seems like the two are pretty linked to me. I mean, why oppose homosexual marriage if you don't oppose homosexuality? I honestly don't know the exact meaning of "oppose homosexuality." I boycott homosexuality, not being a homosexual myself. In what larger way, as a political actor, am I meant to "oppose" it? I understand what it means to "oppose" narcotics. We generally mean 'criminalize" their use an distribution, and lock lawbreakers up in jail. What does it mean to "oppose" homosexuality?

258 Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 02:35 PM (2tTzd)

I finally found a reason I could argue (I don't support it, being anti-gay marriage, but it's at least one I can build a logical framework around) in support of gay-marriage.

Spouses can't be compelled to testify against each other in a court of law.

If Chuck and Larry really have a monothropic (it can't be monogamous, since neither is a girl) relationship, and are willing to go through the legal hoops, shouldn't they receive that same protection?

Now, I'm not sure if "domestic partner" relationships cover this or not, but it is at least a semi-logical argument for gay marriage.  If they don't, I think they probably should, and the gay marriage activists should STFD & STFU, but that doesn't mean the argument itself is invalid- as so many of theirs are.

259 Gay marriage, like abortion, is red meat for the social right.

Indeed, but it's purely reactionary.  The Social Right didn't go out and make this an issue for votes or money or anything.  Someone set out, as the socons see it, to rewrite the social contract without a vote.  They are merely pushing back.

260 There are far more important issues on the table right now than if gays can marry.  I could give a rat's ass by the way.  People need a job, a real job, a roof over their head and food on the table to feed their families.  I don't care about two people of the same sex getting married.  I don't agree with it but I don't care about it.  I care about where this country is headed which is right down the shitter.  So give the whole gay marriage stuff a rest.

261 As far as I'm concerned, Gov. Perry's stance is perfect. State's can do what they want, but he has if own principles, but is willing to prioritize them.

262 >>>Honestly ace, I see you as the one making it your business. Why does this need to come up in this thread? Just set up another one at let anyone who wants to comment/flame? I don't know what you mean. As far as "why in this thread," well, it's come up, hasn't it? Further, we're at post 266... seems to me that past 60 or defnitiely 100 threads toend to go "off topic" anyway.

263 Most of this stuff with gays is so extenuated as far as the claimed tangible effect on society.

In the end, if you don't like gays, that's fine, but how does that rise to the level of an "issue" we must fight about?

oblig.'s post begged the question: he implicitly dissed people unwilling to make "condemnatory" statements about gays.

Why is it so damnably important to make condemnatory statements about any group of people?

Posted by: ace

 

Here's an idea. Ask a PFC in a squad bay what he thinks about being told to 'get over it' that gays will billet in the same squad bay. Knowing that the official bit about being able to request alternate billeting is tantamount to career suicide.

Or ask the suvivors and realatives of the people shot up by Maj Hasan, who were told that their problems were a lesser tragedy than a perceived loss of diversity.

In neither case, we won't allow any awkward things to be said, much less condemnatory.

264 261 Gays are narcissists by nature.  They are incapable of not making who they fuck everyone else's business.

Which is why this argument is happening in the first place.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 02:40 PM (NSDeC)

Actually I'm naughty by nature!

 

265 But how is someone else's sex life your business?

There's a loooong answer here, but the simple answer involves polygamy, and how women in a polygamous society chase alpha males. The betas in the society end up not getting any women, don't have any hope of getting women, and all sorts of weird things end up showing up in the society because of it.

As a result, it's in a society's best interest to see that every male has a legitimate chance of pairing up with a female.

Same-sex pairings become an issue if it takes too many females out of the male-female pool. (If you use the CDC numbers, it might. They claim that 3% of guys have sex with other guys, while 14% of chicks have sex with other chicks. The problem with accepting these number is that they include both the bisexual and the curious.)

266 What does it mean to "oppose" homosexuality?

To think that it is sinful, damaging, dangerous, inappropriate ect.

267 I appreciate your interest in my seed, but must regretfully deny your request as EoJ Population Yogurt is on the Empress' list of Substances Banned For Export.

268 past 60 or defnitiely 100 threads toend to go "off topic" anyway

yeah, but it's usually to boobs and fart jokes

How about this for OT,  we have had no rain for 14 weeks on the Alabama Gulf Coast, and now it's rained everyday for 9 straight days.

I blame Al Gore.

269 272

Because this kind of crap always degenerates into a nasty food fight flame war with people being banned.  Just once can we leave a thread alone?  This is why we can't have nice things.

270 The whole reason I'm supporting Perry is that I *imagine* he can appeal to most segments of the party. He has to pull some of Bachmann's voters, the same as he has to pull some of Romney's.

But appealing to the Republican party can NOT get him elected nationally. This isn't 2004. You can not churn-up your respected bases in the knowledge that for every alienated voter in the middle who is turned off by the rhetoric, you're getting over unity (>1 voter) because there are bigger efficiency gains to be had in your party than in recruiting new voters. This type of election is dead for Republicans.

Demographics choose winning candidates, ideologues* only get in the way.

2012 isn't being shy either, the battleground is with middle class white suburban/exurban voters in the midwest and rustbelt. They like Obama, they bought into the anti-Bush rhetoric (eliminates Perry), but at the end of the day -- they like their job more.

The demographics (and resultant polling, which is predictable if you know the former) do not lie. Pay attention to them. We can either re-fight 2008, which went so splendidly, or win. You pick.

I'm so very disheartened by the lack of intellectual and logical thinking out of supposed conservatives and libertarians. It's all immediate gratification, all emotive drive impulses for a mystic ideological object petite a. I can empathize with Kruathammer immensely. Frankly, you're embarrassing.

* This is you.

271   Homosexuality becomes my business when it is taught and encouraged to my child in taxpayer funded public school and when a homosexual is given special treatment and preference under the law.   
  When my normal kid is ridiculed for not being "cool" or "open minded" about the latest sexual fad, it becomes my business.
 
  When I am forbidden to express my disregard for something I find abhorrent, be it bestiality or homosexuality or islam, it is no longer a question of some other person's sexuality. It becomes an issue of MY freedom.

  I am no prude. Most of my young adult life was spent in pursuit of new places and ways to put my junk up next to as many women as possible.
It was nobody's business but mine and the poor ladies with bad taste enough to say yes.
  But what I didn't do was make a parade float shaped like a giant vagina and ride down Main Street nekid on it screaming "I love pussy!"
  I didn't demand that the guy at the bar who punched me in the mouth get an extra 5 years in prison for punching me.
 
 

 

272 Keep your penis out of my kid's classroom

273

Actually I'm naughty by nature!

Posted by: Barny Frank at July 28, 2011 02:45 PM

Barney Frank sang "Hip Hop Hurray"?

274 So give the whole gay marriage stuff a rest.

Posted by: mpfs

 

Tell that to the gay advocates. Good luck with that.

275

Yeah. his family HATES politics. And by the months worth of trashing him without even looking at his record..I dont blame them.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 28, 2011 02:44 PM (qjUnn)

You mean his record like supporting the Indiana Democrats that pulled the Wisconsin Fleabagger routine rather than vote on a bill about unions?

276

So I'm with you that we should focus more on the big picture stuff.  But I see no reason to compromise at the nomination level. 

Posted by: SH at July 28, 2011 01:47 PM (gmeXX)

Probably because we don't have that deep a bench. And really, social issues are moot if/when our nation implodes under the gargantuan debt, regulatory burden, etc that Obama is killing us with.

277 Closet case , just sayin..

278 Oh, and just to clarify my last statement: this really only talks about marriage, and not sex life. There is a difference.

279 How about this for OT,  we have had no rain for 14 weeks on the Alabama Gulf Coast, and now it's rained everyday for 9 straight days.

Posted by: toby928™

So, you're hoarding rain? Send it to Texas! We're dying here!

280 I am just askin' questions here, but...

If they use a banana in Kindergarden to demonstrate how to install rubbers, what exactly will they use to demonstrate gay history?

281 I guess more specifically, Ace, opposition to homosexuality means not wanting your kids taught that having two mommies or engaging in same sex exploration is "normal." That's where the policy implications come into play, but it all stems from the fact that a person rejects the underlying premise that homosexuality is just one of several healthy, normal sexual preferences.

282 As far as "why in this thread," well, it's come up, hasn't it? Further, we're at post 266... seems to me that past 60 or defnitiely 100 threads toend to go "off topic" anyway.

If they can stay on topic for the first 60, it's like herding cats...That's all assuming someone actually reads the article well enough to *know* what the topic is to begin with which doesn't have a lot of supporting evidence to prove that it actually occurs. It *is* a topic that will come up in conservative circles, esp. when the topic of social issues comes up, because of the social issues, it is the one that wedges conservatives the most. And a lot of different opinions will fly. Better to have that little spat here in relative safety among friends and give our pols something to work with when they have to face a media determined to drive a wedge in any time they can.

283 Whether the modern dating scene has left you feeling like you've been tossed to the ground or you've simply hit the wall, HE can help you find the cornhole. Will Smith is:
Beanbag.
Co-starring Bill Maher as the tosser.

284 Same-sex pairings become an issue if it takes too many females out of the male-female pool.

Could be true, but as you say:
The problem with accepting these number is that they include both the bisexual and the curious

Which is most of those women, in my opinion.  There just isn't the same taboo for women that there is for men.

As for actual gays and lesbians, would you want to enter into a heterosexual marriage with somebody who's actually a closet homosexual?  I'd rather they be "out", so a straight person isn't tricked into a marriage that's doomed to be unsatisfying.

285 At this point the Gay marriage is issue is FUBAR! If its decided by states then leftardia will shriek "Jim Crow" like a car alarm even long after its they eventually get what they want. For quite a few years now leftist media and public education have equated gay marriage with racism. A whole generation sees it as their crusade. That cat is out of the bag and is not going to be reversed based on what a few politicians say. Endgame *Freedom of religion crisis* Church's that refuse to marry gays are going to be media harassed/ sued into submission or closure. A few big settlements early on will assure a flurry of such cases. There have already been a number of cases along these lines. The IRS an organization as far left as the EPA (why do think all those democrats don't take paying taxes seriously) will certainly threaten to remove tax exempt status with the end game be the actual seizure of especially smaller churches that cant afford legal defenses. So its going to get ugly, I see two possible shortcuts to sort this -if gays start voting republican in 60+%, the left will turn against them in a heartbeat -Conservatives coordinate to have a gay couple sue a muslim mosque to let them marry inside it. It will create a large division on the left and an opening for us to use the precedent for religious protection. Or we could just hem haw and bluster our way through the surrendering and be mocked mercilessly in media for the next few decades over it....... you know... the ususal.

286 So, you're hoarding rain? Send it to Texas! We're dying here!

You guys are about to get a tropical storm (Don), soon.

287 >>>To think that it is sinful, damaging, dangerous, inappropriate ect. I know it's sinful. Like oral sodomy and masturbation. And yet these heterosexual habits are so rarely complained of. It's almost like people are focusing on sex acts they don't engage in (because they are not interested in them) to serve nearly exclusively as stand-ins for sinful sexual behavior.

288 281

ROFLMAO

289
Gay Trivia:
They're really not making it everyone's business.

290 AllenG, that is actually a very interesting point, to which I would say you'd have your work cut out convincing me that gay marriage is the only legal remedy.

291 The problem with accepting these number is that they include both the bisexual and the curious


A real man knows that, like the g-spot, pure lesbians are a myth.

292 I almost asked what "oral sodomy" is, then I figured it out. Unfortunately.

293 Honestly I see an awful lot of people looking to make it their business. Posted by: ace at July 28, 2011 02:33 PM (pbzFf) I don't care what people do in their homes so long as it doesn't involve harming kids or animals and is consensual. That being said, the problem I have is not with homosexual people. It's the agenda, Ace. it seems to me that there is a concerted effort being made to put homosexuality out there as wonderful and preferable. As evidenced by the nonsense "studies" claiming that homosexual parents are better than hetero ones and such. I have no problem with advocacy that aims to get people to treat homosexuals kindly. No gay person should be denied a job. We shouldn't mistreat gay people. After all, they're people and have inherent dignity as fellow human beings. I really see the so-con position of this as push-back against a campaign to make abnormal behavior the social ideal.

294 Shit. If the high-horse get any higher around here the riders are going to need oxygen masks.

295 ace I imagine they are saying that you can take one in the ass, but don't talk about it during "What does your Dad do Day".

296 I think Romney is the stronger candidate. Perry is his own man in the South, but to Republicans in New Hampshire or Maine or Ohio, Perry looks, talks and politics exactly like GWB. Many Republicans are scared of going down that road again.

297 "Conservatives coordinate to have a gay couple sue a muslim mosque to let them marry inside it." NORMAN, COORDINATE!

298 Headline: "California has just passed a law to teach Masturbation History in K-12"

299 And yet these heterosexual habits are so rarely complained of.

It's almost like people are focusing on sex acts they don't engage in (because they are not interested in them) to serve nearly exclusively as stand-ins for sinful sexual behavior.


I agree. It's easy to see other people's sins, especially when you've never been tempted to sin in that way. However, I would say that conservative parents do speak to their children about oral sex and masturbation. Also, as someone else pointed out, there's no movement to support "masturbation understanding" or "Oral Sex Pride Parades."

Were there not a huge movement on the part of Gay Activists to push a specific agenda, I don't think the issue would be given more thought than the crusade against porn.

300
Thanks, Jordan.

btw, was that you I heard today on CSPAN on the Fake Republicans line?

301 Frankly, you're embarrassing.

Then don't come around here and you won't have to be seen with us.

There just isn't the same taboo for women that there is for men.

Related trivia: did you know that the Bible never specifically forbids female-female relationships?  The parts of Exodus and Leviticus that talk about it always talk about "he who lies with a man like he would lie with a woman" or something similar, and the New Testament just lumps it all together with "homosexuality" or some-such.

Now, I think such prohibition is, shall we say, rolled into the explicit things, but I thought the trivial reference might break up the pending flame war.

302 Left Handed Masturbators have civil rights too you know.

303 And to add onto my previous comment, I think we all know that the attempts to force churches into recognizing gay marriage and such is coming. And that I have a HUGE problem with.

304

The question is, why do they continually make it our business?

Ace, when you reply "In what sense?" I have to wonder if you are really that obtuse or if you are being disingenuous. My gut tells me that your personal circumstances insulate you from a lot of the culture war issues. But if you had kids in school you would be much more sensitive to the aggressiveness of the gay agenda. Those pushing it don't want to keep their personal lives private, they want it celebrated and demand that they be recognized as legitimate.

And you don't see how anyone else's sex life affects you? Well, if you pay taxes you're paying for those choices everyday (AIDs research and meds, welfare for unwed mothers, costs of crime by children of unwed mothers, etc.)

For the record I would classify myself as social/fiscal/defense conservative with some libertarian sensibilities. I think most of the social issues have to be won in the culture, not in the politics. But I think that anyone who thinks that we can have liberal social policy without liberal fiscal policy is just kidding themselves. Liberal social policies inevitably require subsidy.

 

305 Opposition to homosexuality starts as a practical religious, moral and societal matter. There is no existential reason for practicing homosexuality. It is considered a deviant behavior by most religions. It abrogates basic social mores and is antithetical to the family and furtherance of a society.

As I said before. If people want to engage in that behavior, so be it. But making it a public matter, by a state condoning gay marriage, legislating slurs as a hate (and thereby a distinct class) crime, forcing acceptance into the educational process and so on, makes it a more controversial matter for a society. That's why people "care" about others private matters. Because as a practical matter they will retaliate by attacking the behavior in question, which is the root of their objection.

306 Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 02:51 PM (lbo6/)

Yeah, I know.  Like I said, I don't think its enough, either.  But it's the only legal/logical argument I think they can make.  The stupid lies about "visiting in the hospital" and other such just don't work as soon as you know the actual facts.

307 When they start having Chronic Fappers Day at Disneyland, I'd agree, ace.

308 310 And yet these heterosexual habits are so rarely complained of.

It's almost like people are focusing on sex acts they don't engage in (because they are not interested in them) to serve nearly exclusively as stand-ins for sinful sexual behavior.


I agree. It's easy to see other people's sins, especially when you've never been tempted to sin in that way. However, I would say that conservative parents do speak to their children about oral sex and masturbation. Also, as someone else pointed out, there's no movement to support "masturbation understanding" or "Oral Sex Pride Parades."

Were there not a huge movement on the part of Gay Activists to push a specific agenda, I don't think the issue would be given more thought than the crusade against porn.

Posted by: Lauren at July 28, 2011 02:56 PM (hwHyk)

They also aren't likely to try and tear down churches, and make preaching the bible hate speech by talking about masturbation and blow jobs.

309 IIRC, it was Perry's AG who was the last to mount a defense of American anti-sodomy laws. In Perry's TX, it was definitely illegal to take it in the ass. In other states getting a BJ from your wife is illegal. Perry defended TX law at the time.

310

See... like this BS.  He never supported them and trashed them at every opportunity. In the end.. HE WON.   We have a short session.  HIS agenda was on the line. The agenda WE VOTED FOR.  The agenda that gave us school choice.. that gave us a balanced budget.  We dont have public unions here.. he wiped them out in 2005.  Scott Walker was following what Daniels did years before.

Conservatives are their own worst enemy.

RINO. 

Daniels was my top choice back when it looked like he was going to get in.... probably the best governor in the nation currently; and yes, his would have been a very valuable voice in times like these.

But the reality is.... Perry has hair.

311

But what I didn't do was make a parade float shaped like a giant vagina and ride down Main Street nekid on it screaming "I love pussy!"

 

What a great idea.  Folsum Street, here I come!!

312 If 2% of the population decided next year to spend millions of dollars (some of it tax money) to convince everyone in America to define a squirrel as a bird, would you agree? What if you got called the worst insults in the language if you disagreed?

That is my take on gay marriage. No such thing unless a squirrel can be a bird.

313 Left Handed Masturbators have civil rights too you know.

Do they? Shouldn't they have lefts?

314 Posted by: Marcus at July 28, 2011 02:58 PM (CHrmZ) Exactly.

315 I wondered why ace was starting a fight on this issue, then I remembered where he lives. New Yorker = half a fag ± 50%

316

See... like this BS. He never supported them and trashed them at every opportunity. In the end.. HE WON. We have a short session. HIS agenda was on the line. The agenda WE VOTED FOR. The agenda that gave us school choice.. that gave us a balanced budget. We dont have public unions here.. he wiped them out in 2005. Scott Walker was following what Daniels did years before.

Why yes I sure am repeating BS that he never supported them and I guess trashing them by saying its a legitimate method..

317 OT/ Are lizards maternal? I mean, Gary has been following around a new, littler lizard while it "tastes" every thing that could possibly be a bug, for an hour now. Right around my feet! Gary doesn't seem to want to *eat* the littler lizard and isn't looking to eat bugs, either. I would almost call Gary's activity "protective" except, what the hell could Gary do, but skitter away if I proved to be a threat?

318 _{New Yorker = half a fag ± 50%}



So he's got Means and Motive in search of Opportunity?


/I kid

319

Obviously I'm late to the thread, but to add to Ace's list of why Perry's a good candidate, the other day I heard Perry say that his wife was all for him running, but he hadn't quite made up his mind.  If his wife is up for it, I don't see how he decides not to run.

 

In the past I've never understood why the simple logic of state's rights / something to be decided at the state level wouldn't appeal to liberals.  They could build whatever social utopia they want ... in their own states ... and I wouldn't complain since I don't have to pay for it.

 

I want to thank Ace and the co-bloggers for opening my eyes as to why the left won't back off. It's control, over everybody and everything that they're after. It's simply not in their nature to allow folks to live and let live. I really think the lefties have it backwards as to which side is trying to control and force it's ideas on the other.  I think that's called projecting?

320 but it all stems from the fact that a person rejects the underlying premise that homosexuality is just one of several healthy, normal sexual preferences.

That statement also presumes that sexual preference as defined has no environmental factors which contribute to it and must be narrowly defined in a binary sense.

Let's take an amoral stance. Lets compare the dick and the nice guy. The dick treats people rudely though not unfairly, the nice guy is polite. Their is no inherent moral hazard to being generally rude. But generally parents raise their kids (or used to) to be polite and respectful where possible. Knowing that their natural tendency may have caused them to be more rude and that was by environment slanted to be more polite. Has the parent done some egregious wrong to his child by raising them in a way that encouraged them to be polite?

Similarly the homosexual community would like you to accept a number of things at face value. That every human is either A or B their exists no in between ground. And that environmental factors have nothing to do with if a child grows up to choose A or B. Both those statements are likely false. So a parents desire to control environmental factors such that a child has the best chance of choosing to be A rather than B is no more bigoted against group B than any two things you could put in that category.

A= Polite  B=Rude
A=Doctor B=Artist
A=Hunter/Fisher B=Golfer
A=Ironworker B=Carpenter

Their is no inherent moral crisis in any set of A's and B's and simply desiring A doesn't mean outright rejecting the validity of B as you would portend.

And so on and so on. It is no great evil that a parent may want their child to grow up get married and have kids of their own that will carry the family forward, and places them in environmental conditions which encourage that outcome.

You by your statement would liken it to mean that it implies a whole rejection of all those who did not follow that path by making implication based on questionable premise.

321

>> Jeez, whoever voted for Jon Huntsman on Gabe's poll should be banned...for life.

STFU!

 

Also, about the money?  I'm keepin it!

322 As for actual gays and lesbians, would you want to enter into a heterosexual marriage with somebody who's actually a closet homosexual?  I'd rather they be "out", so a straight person isn't tricked into a marriage that's doomed to be unsatisfying.

That's a different question -- I was answering, "Why would I care?" and, tangentially, why letting the judiciary create a right of same-sex marriage would be a bad thing.

The real question becomes, "Which is better?" and I don't know the answer to that.

323 also I denounce myself

324 Homsexuality is part of leftists moving the perverbial Overton Window.  And as they move it more in their direction they're going to be picking up all the other trash that's just waiting for the ride.  EoJ nailed it.  The states that adopt the gay marriage harangue will eventually regret it down the road. 

325

This reinforces the take I've had about Perry (from other people) that:

1. He's neo-conservative.

2. He's a global corporatist.

3. He's an elitist authoritarian despite the authentic Texas drawl. Gaddafi advised Sen.Obama to be true to himself, or risk being a worse threat to American black Muslims than the establishment insider elitist would apply just as well to Perry who only plays the homespun facade for affect while burning the grassroots he claims to represent. And apologists buy into the fraud since riding the bandwagon brings its own financial benefits while America burns.

He's so "tough" that he's sent "sternly written letters" to Obama in order to effect no change in common values given the open Texas border with Mexico. Perry's TX Corridor plan had no security checkpoint for trucking to/from either Mexico or Canada.

Abusing executive powers is his preference to observing constitutional rule of law.

That Ace favors anyone who likes to campaign lies lies and more lies (words, just words) is not news. America's really going to solve problems with another liar in office.

Ask the Texas Tea Party just how "conservative" or legally Rick Perry governs. The Texas State Supreme Court ruled against Perry's administration on social issues based on parental rights and the sanctity of the family for using the CPS without legal cause. The Texas Supreme Court and Texas Legislature sided against Perry's abuses of power. 

He failed to provide the Mansion with security, and it was burnt to the ground, gutted. Next, the White House. "Don't spend all your money" applies to elitist Perry's habit, abusing public tax dollars rather than spending his own money -- avoiding residence in the nearly renovated historic Governor's Mansion, and now in tax funded extravagant travels for book signings (admitting that being TX Gov. was never his full time job, given time to complete his personal publicity stunt book), the book release timed for the "anyone but Obama" polls.

326 nonsense "studies" claiming that homosexual parents are better than hetero ones and such.

As an irrelevant side note, this might actually be true in one sense.  The thing is, any idiot can have a baby the natural way, even if they're a crack-addict who can't hold down a job, but there's a screening process for adoption.  So, on average, adopted babies grow up in stabler homes.

327
Shall I be gay? or, should I be gay?

Gay? or Not-Gay?

So many questions to ponder at AoS.

328

In the end, if you don't like gays, that's fine, but how does that rise to the level of an "issue" we must fight about?

You said it yourself a while ago, Ace. The agenda keeps creeping.

I'm old enough to remember when the gay-rights groups said how great DADT was. Then they said how bad DADT was and how it had to be repealed. They got their way both times. I also remember when it became improper to say AIDS was a gay people's disease, but then if a politician didn't support AIDS research enough, he was anti-gay. Now it's marriage and child rearing, which you said yourself were unimaginable a short time ago. Besides, anyone who did imagine these things were reassured by the gay-rights groups that they simply had overactive imaginations, that there'd be no way possible certain things (like same-sex marriage) ever coming around.

What's next? I have no idea. Maybe the removal of all restrictions on all forms of pornography, except where children are involved. Maybe an hour of sex ed a day in public schools, starting in first grade. Issuing licences and collecting tax revenues from glor- -----  -- I don't know. Let's meet back here in ten years and see what's generally accepted, what's begrudgingly tolerated, and what's still taboo.

329

>> He failed to provide the Mansion with security, and it was burnt to the ground, gutted. Next, the White House.

 

Fuck that shit, he burned it down himself, after an argument broke out in a poker game.

(all seriousness aside, that's one of the funniest criticisms I've seen yet, particularly the prediction on the White House.)

330 Posted by: sandy burger at July 28, 2011 03:13 PM (XyoGP) I can see your point. The problem with it is that in this estuaries, the qualities that were considered positive for children were all feminine. So any coupling that had a traditionally masculine man involved automatically fell short. The results were that lesbians made the best parents. But when the only qualities you consider good for kids are feminine ones, what do you expect the results will be?

331 Ack! Not estuaries! STUDIES. Damn auto-correct.

332 So how do parents protect their rights to teach their children their religious view that the schools don't honor?  Are we just suppose to homeschool and pay for everyone else's schooling when it is teaching things against their values?  That sounds like discrimination if everyone says, "yes, tough luck on you, religious person."  It has been happening for years at the public college level on many levels.  It is also going beyond religion...it is other viewpoints that are at stake too...capitalism, non-belief in global warming, etc.  Why isn't this addressed?  Everyone wants to sweep this under the rug and that discussion needs to take place or it will end up being like our debt....hanging there for decades until we wake up one morning and say, "Gee I should have had a V-8, I mean, I should have been more proactive!"

333

PS. Perry has some big government overreach skeletons in the closet. I'm sure they've been discussed around here - the mandatory ovarian cancer vaccine, and the trans-Texas corridor. Stuff that, like motorcycle helmets and mandatory heath insurance, "SEEM" like good ideas at the time. I mean, who's in favor smashed skulls? Who's in favor of ovarian cancer?  If there's a simple, easy way for our intellectual betters to make sure we troglodytes do what's best for us...

 

Oh, wait.  That's nanny state in action, isn't it.... So Perry's made his fair share of big government knee jerk type mistakes. He's been called out on those mistakes and I think he's learned from them.  Politically anyways.

 

Oh, and Perry may want to beat Obama worse than anybody but Palin. Obama deliberately snubs Perry every chance he gets, and his administration (not sure if he's the one making disaster-area declarations or whether he pawns that off on a minion) wouldn't give Texas any disaster relief money after the big fires. Bambi's admistrative agencies are also trying to screw Texas, from the EPA to lack of border resources.

 

As for me, I've never had the warm fuzzies for Rick, but I developed a grudging respect after his "Adios, mofo" comment. Wouldn't it be nice to hear somebody say that to Bambi?

334

Fuck that shit, he burned it down himself, after an argument broke out in a poker game.

(all seriousness aside, that's one of the funniest criticisms I've seen yet, particularly the prediction on the White House.)

Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 28, 2011 03:15 PM (WvXvd)

You should avoid engaging Alex Jones Maverick Muse or any of his numerous sock puppets.

Something Twain said about arguing with a pig or somethin'.

335 On the surface, so far, that is believable. The problem is, Bush had that same tenacity. It ended up being a lot of trouble for debt and for several other areas. We had to yank hard to keep that witch off the Supreme Court, keep amnesty off the table, and lots of other things. This guy just seems so much like Bush that I am not sure he can be trusted. Too similar in too many ways. I'll have to get busy and look him over. It looks like he has a decent shot. But if it comes down to swallowing and voting for the socialist to keep the communist out, as I said after voting for Bush, I simply won't vote.

336

Hey Doom,

 

One big difference between Perry and Bush. Perry's a farmer.  Bush is a wanna-be rancher. Big difference.

 

I predict that if David Dewhurst, Texas Lt. Governor, ran for president he would win.

 

O/T Why isn't anybody looking at the Governor of Nebraska? I realize it's not a big state, but we've had presidents in the past who were former governors of little states, and they were craphole little states vs. a nice place (except for the weather) like Nebraska.

337 I trust Thomas Sowell more then anyone else in this entire debate.

338 RICK PERRY IS BURNING DOWN THE LBJ LIBRARY

339 RICK PERRY IS BURNING DOWN THE LBJ LIBRARY


About friggin' time.

340 Ugh, need to take off that sock since I got shot down.

341 Perry may also think states can redefine any institution. Perry wants whatever the majority wants to destroy.

342 Perry may also think states can redefine any institution.

Any state institution, maybe.

343 Okay this is what bothers me about Rick Perry, and I know all you Perry lovers are going to flame me. I just cannot yet get over the fact at the time of the Reagan revolution he sided with the dems. Walrusrex mentioned the fact we all change and that is true we become more conservative as we get older etc. etc but how old was he not that young. I just don't believe him, I think he is a panderer. On the other hand if he is the nominee bet your bottom dollar am voting for him over Obama. That and anyone else who is the Repub nominee.

344 Very late to the thread, but I wanted to point out to ace, who will never see this, that the Texas Monthly article is not electioneering. Texas Monthly is a Dem rag, and Paul Burka does not really like Perry. It's clear he has a grudging respect for Perry's use of power though. It means even more coming from a Dem.

345 351 RICK PERRY IS BURNING DOWN THE LBJ LIBRARY

He needs to take care of that SuperDrum thing while he's at it then.

346 "Politics ain't beanbag, as they say." No, but it is CORNHOLIA!!!

347 Thanks for sharing, please keep an update about this info. love to read it more. i like this site too much.