1 Yummmmmmm! Donuts.

2 Comments back working? Good, just in time for me to go.

3 "Can we imagine that perhaps a similar state of affairs has arisen in the nonsense science of global warming?" Can we imagine that perhaps a similar state of affairs has arisen in the science of carbon dating?

4 Until you said "global warming", I was on the fence between that and Keynesian stimulus. It's hard to keep up with all the stupid. Who are you going to believe: me, or your lying thighs?

5 Everyone I've known who went on Atkins became really erratic. 

6 I've found Atkins leads to long winded rants and the deadly disease of Rinoism.

7 I have found a silver lining of a prospective Rick Perry presidency for Progs on Atkins.  One side effect of these low carb diets is that they tend to lead to constipation owing to lack of sufficient dietary fiber.  This will not be a problem for Progressives, however, because Rick Perry scares the shit out of them. 

8 So........I'm fat?  Is that what you're saying?

9 Both sides are right.. and both are wrong.

Hardly anyone can stay on an Atkins diet for long...  As soon as you start mixing carbs into your diet, it utterly fails.

Fat IS bad, Ace.. because when eaten with carbs in a balanced diet, it clogs up your arteries and kills you.

Of course, even those statements are wildly over generalized.. I happen to be heavy in weight with really clear arteries.. good genes,  I guess. or all the garlic and olive oil I eat.. who knows?

In the end, each person has to work out what works for them.

As for libs.. I am having fun over at daily kooks with shoving the cern cloud findings in their faces..  nothing can dissuade them from thinking they are right.. even evidence to the contrary by other scientists.  They are hopeless..

10 ...why are you so dead certain the consensus of experts in Global Warming has things straight? A) Indoctrination. 40 years of every authority figure from elementary school on up preaching the gospels of global cooling/warming & finally climate change. B) Conceit. It's yet another pedestal/pulpit to look down upon their unwashed inferiors, the so-called flat Earthers. Sorta on topic, I read in Men's Health a few years back that you would lose weight if you eliminated any one nutrient from your diet. Protein, carbs, fat. Doesn't matter, though your body reacts different to each. As always, consult a physician...

11 Ace, check out Fathead on netflix. It talks a lot about how the government and bad science have been walking us down the wrong path for 50 years.

12 5 Everyone I've known who went on Atkins became really erratic.

All those ketone bodies affecting brain chemistry?    I kid, I keed! 

For a counter-point, here's one of Mike Fumento's articles about Taubes/Atkins:

Big Fat Fake

13 Check out Fathead on netflix, Ace.

It talks about the incestuous relationship between big government and bad science.

14 >>>Can we imagine that perhaps a similar state of affairs has arisen in the science of carbon dating? No, not really. Carbon dating is based on a strict measurement of the half-life of Carbon-14. There is no guess about this. I know that bashing global warming has some popularity because some people also want to say the science of planetary formation and speciation (evolution) is also flawed, but no dice. The earth is not 6000 years old. If you feel that God has asked you to believe that, that's fine (although I don't see anywhere in the Bible he asks you to believe that; that seems to come from a "consensus of experts" we call "Biblical Scholars"), but it's simply not true that there is some open debate about the half-life of Carbon-14. It is measured.

15

I'd imagine that it doesn't work because once you know how the world works, you realize just how much responsibility relies completely on you.

And that's no fun. Best to send off for "safe" pasta microwave dinners and believe that your betters (even though they're totally the worst) will never get tired of sending you money.

16 Damn. Sorry for the double post.  I got an error the first time.

17 The Dukan Diet is a combination of Atkins and South Beach, so it eliminates all of the side effects.  It is what Kate Middleton used to get her weight down before the wedding.

18 Lauren, I will, thanks!

19 With regards to Atkins, why would you want to bring on ketosis voluntarily? Am I missing something? I was told by someone doing the diet that it was part of the process. Diet is one area where the words balanced approach don't make me wretch.

20 >>>Everyone I've known who went on Atkins became really erratic. How many are we talking about? I never noticed that at all.

21 I watched this special about gladiators where it talked about their daily diet: mostly barley with some beans. Why Did they eat this diet? Because it gave them a layer of fat that insulated them against blunt force. Interesting, eh?

22 >>>With regards to Atkins, why would you want to bring on ketosis voluntarily? Am I missing something? I was told by someone doing the diet that it was part of the process. Ketosis is the burning of stored fat cells for energy -- which is exactly what anyone looking to lose weight wants, no? When fat molecules are cannibalized for energy, the result is some energy and a ketone. I'm not sure there's any other way to burn fat except for ketosis.

23 bacon = best low carb food ever

unless you're Jewish

24 It wasn't just the Church that taught geocentrism. Ptolemy wasn't a Catholic!

25 OT - Pamela Gellar has just written a stinging blog entry about Ace. Wow Ace, did you REALLY comment on her jugs the first time you met her at CPAC in 2007? If so, what a maroon! I haven't been back to this blog for a couple of weeks after being attacked myself by my so-called peers. Is the Ace blog heading down a long slippery slope? http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/

26 >>> Because it gave them a layer of fat that insulated them against blunt force. Interesting. In the Reno 911 Movie (the one in Miami), Patton Oswald, playing a fat guy of course (since he's fat), claims he is not blubbery, he just has a layer of "Protective Karate Fat."

27

I'm sold on the low carb diet.  I've never had any success with low calories diets.  I just can't stand being hungry all the time.

I've been on the Dukan diet to lose 25 pounds.  This is a variant of Atkins, with less fat allowed.  In 35 days I've dropped 23 pounds.  I've never been hungry and the cravings for junk are completely gone.

I wonder about the longterm effects of consuming so much cholesterol and so little fiber, but for weight loss results, it's incredible.  Cotrolling your carbs is the key to dropping the weight.

28 Ketosis = good
Ketoacidosis = bad

29 Well, of course you gain (or maintain) your weight when you start back adding carbs on the Fatkid's diet, that is to be expected. However, any way you slice it, it works. Well. The secret is to follow it, but not obsessively. Cheat a little with decent carbs, like fruit. Not sure how a lib squares it with their beliefs, (but, then I'm not sure how they square anything), but for the rest of us, it's a great option.

30

"Anti-establishment" sells. Think about global warming: It's still billed as the anti-establishment scientific theory, even though its proponents call the theory a proven fact that every scientist in the world accepts. It's still revolutionary, and the fact that Bush didn't sign Kyoto (I know, but that's what they say) speaks to how the old guard of deniers is still in charge.

31 It's all about power.

32 Wow Ace, did you REALLY comment on her jugs the first time you met her at CPAC in 2007

If someone videoblogs in a bikini, I think they want attention for their ta-tas. What other reason would one do that?

33 I wonder if there is an ideological element as to which diets are preferred by experts. Conservatives, I suspect, are drawn to Atkins because of its reliance on red meat and similar proteins while liberals, being idiots, are drawn to fad diets like only eating grapefruits or diets which advocate little or no red meat. These "experts" always seem to be left of center and influenced by their brethren's pro-Gaia inclinations.

34 Of course, even those statements are wildly over generalized.. I happen to be heavy in weight with really clear arteries.. good genes,  I guess. or all the garlic and olive oil I eat.. who knows?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at August 27, 2011 01:54 PM (UTq/I)\

Olive oil is the good kind of fat. There are a bunch of different types, and they are not created equal.

35 Ketosis is the burning of stored fat cells for energy -- which is exactly what anyone looking to lose weight wants, no? Ack, I meant ketoacidosis. Sorry. I worked with a guy on the diet years ago and he described his unpleasant experiences with this. Though, to be fair he was also a heavy drinker.

36 5 Everyone I've known who went on Atkins became really erratic. 

Posted by: Y-not at August 27, 2011 01:48 PM (5H6zj)

That sounds so... HOT...

37 Was PG video blogging in a bikini?  That seems way out of character for her. 

38 My father and brother have been on low carb for many years. They both are the same as they ever were, except skinnier. Y-not, perhaps your friends have always been erratic and you just never noticed before.

39 Ha, I just read both Why We Get Fat and Good Calories/Bad Calories.  The history really is outrageous..every girl knew the 60s that if you wanted to stay thin, you ate steak and salads, and no bread, potatoes, and certainly no pasta.   No cereal.

And yeah, the first thing that came to mind reading Taubes was AGW.  Go look into the history of antidepressants testing too, same bogus science and repression of contrary evidence.

It's all about the grant money.  Or, and the drugs they sell.

40 @20
Probably about a dozen people or so. You can usually tell when someone is on the Atkins diet.  Here's an article from Livestrong on the possible basis for mood swings on Atkins. 

I really would not recommend any diet that forces your body to go into an unusual metabolic state to promote weight loss.  It is much better to reduce calories, increase exercise, and try to take in a balanced diet low in processed foods.

The one thing I did become a "believer" in after researching dietary guidelines before putting my husband on a diet to bring his blood sugar (and weight) down was the benefit of dietary fiber.  It really does seem to promote healthy blood chemistry in addition to providing the bulk you need to feel full. 

I'm convinced that salt guidelines, which are based largely on data from international health organizations, are completely off.  I was tracking everything we ingested for four months and cooking virtually everything from scratch (without adding salt) and I rarely kept us below our "allowed" salt.  I think they've failed to account for the very different circumstances of someone living in a tribe in Africa and a typical American. 

41 Mmmm...pwotein....wots and wots of pwotein.....

42 Okay, I'm weighing in here. I lost sixty pounds and kept almost all of it off using weight watchers. I go by the calorie in calorie out orthodoxy. Low calorie diets won't work if you eat a lot of high fat, high sugar food, because you can't eat much and still keep the calorie level down. I ate plenty of proteins and carbs, including desserts. Lean meat, including steak, desserts that were made with low fat or sugar free substitutes, or small servings of regular desserts. In my view, you need to decide what you lean toward when you eat, and find ways to eat that without going overboard on calories. If you are a meat eater, eat ground sirloin for hamburger, sizzler steaks instead of t-bones, and lean pork. If you crave carbs, eat whole grain, brown rice, and reasonable desserts. Yeah, eat some fruit and veggies too.

43 20 >>>Everyone I've known who went on Atkins became really erratic.

How many are we talking about? I never noticed that at all.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 01:59 PM (nj1bB)

That's because the voices are distracting you.

44 (nutrition is always a surprisingly big comment draw)
-----
Regrettably, that's probably just because a lot of us are old or aging farts!  ;-)

45 39 Was PG video blogging in a bikini?  That seems way out of character for her. 

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 02:09 PM (+tzv7)

That reminds me... you would think that some of these Bimbo Weather Girls standing out in the hurricane would do so in bikinis.

Just because.

46

#7 Y-not:

"I have found a silver lining of a prospective Rick Perry presidency for Progs on Atkins. One side effect of these low carb diets is that they tend to lead to constipation owing to lack of sufficient dietary fiber. This will not be a problem for Progressives, however, because Rick Perry scares the shit out of them."

----------

Heeheh. It's already giving them shivering shakes and diahrrea at both ends.

I read where someone else defined this Perryphobia as the "shivering grunties" = a fear induced quivering state that results in relaxation of the colorectal muscles. 

47 Is anyone else having trouble with commenting?

48

It's not eating fat that's the problem. 

Slothenly living is what makes you fat.

49

That reminds me... you would think that some of these Bimbo Weather Girls standing out in the hurricane would do so in bikinis.

 

White ones.

50 I've always heard (and personally experienced) that low fat, vegetarian diets are the most likely to lead to depression and mood swings because your brain does not get the needed fat.

51 #2 I didn't follow the classic weight loss rules. I didn't get much exercise. I skipped breakfast most days. I ate in restaurants from Friday afternoon through Sunday. I went to a candy store every Saturday. The trick, I knew what to order at restaurants, moderate steak dinner, stir fried shrimp, etc. At the candy store each week, I had 3 truffles. In a nutshell, instead of going by what other people or books tell you to eat, figure out your own cravings, and find ways to eat moderately within them. Diets that seriously restrict certain types of food are very hard to stick to long term.

52 Uh, is there there any other self-identified non-troll liberal posting comments on this blog other than me? Actual serious question. I haven't seen any. So I guess Ace is just writing to me here. :-)

OK, seriously, I got overweight at 19 and have been dieting/exercising ever since, with varying degrees of success. I did Atkins once and it killed my energy, really didn't dig it. I do much better on low-fat, lo-cal, moderate carb diets.

Right now I'm doing something I do twice a year called The Master Cleanse: 10 days straight of drinking only a special lemonade concoction: lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne pepper and water. Works great if you have the discipline for it. Energy stays up as well. Don't try it if you're a coffee drinker, though - withdrawal is fierce.

To answer the meta question - I get your point. But I think generally that theories that become highly ideological end up attracting many supporters despite the theory not being 100% proven, and also attracts detractors that discount 100% of the theory despite a part of it being proven, for the same reason: confirmation bias. It fits their worldview.

For example here's another theory: Lower marginal income tax rates increase revenue to the government. You can go really deep into the weeds showing evidence for and against this depending on how you manipulate the data. But I would humbly suggest that not all proponents of the theory are sufficiently "modest" about their certainty, based on results. I happen to think there's a good deal of "correlation doesn't equal causation" going on there in both directions, but that's just me.

OK, have at it.

53 White ones. Posted by: garrett Racist

54 Glancing at Fumento's article, I think he makes good points. Taubes and Atkins go too the other extreme too much.

BUT - and that's a BIG BUT - the effects of sugar and refined carbs on the aging endocrine system cannot be gainsaid!  So reducing that as much as you can is still a good thing, if your blood sugar is starting to get whacky.  Because that's the kind of diet you end up on anyway, if you get diabetes.  At least that what they put my friend on.

55 Diane, That's not true. I have addressed that in the comments before, but as Geller is still pushing it, I guess I'll just main post the actual story.

56 Any diet that restricts overall caloric intake will result in weight loss, how well it works depends on compliance. The low-carb diets benefit from the immediate appeal of "all the bacon I want!" to some. Over the long term, energy is energy and the bodys balance sheet still applies.

57 CoolCzech - Pamela Gellar is not a weather girl.  And the fact that you either don't know who she is and would say that without knowing, or you know who she is, but have no qualms about trashing her, makes me have less respect for you. 

58 The Mayo Clinic was the best resource I found for comprehensive science-based nutritional advice.  They seem pretty conservative in what they recommend, but also are conservative about not making blanket "don't do this" statements. 

This is an article from the Mayo Clinic on the Atkins Diet. 


I am suspicious of any diet that moves people away from their omnivorous roots.  Although I love me some white bread (King's Hawaiian rolls are like cocaine to me), I do now concede that whole grains are much better for us than processed flour. 

59 "I happen to be heavy in weight with really clear arteries.. good genes, I guess. " Very true. My late mother came from a very large family. I don't know of anyone, ever having a heart attack in her family for about 2 or 3 generations. Even when I weighed 50 pounds more than I do now, I had good cholesterol and blood pressure. Certainly not due to healthy habits on my part.

60 I'm not sure there's any other way to burn fat except for ketosis.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 02:01 PM (nj1bB)

Aerobic exercise.

61 50

It's not eating fat that's the problem. 

Slothenly living is what makes you fat.

Posted by: garrett at August 27, 2011 02:14 PM (fugty)

I don't think so.  You have to get a lot of exercise for it to have any effect on your weight.  The numbers just aren't there.

At least for me, the only thing that actually works is carb restriction.

62 Ace, I had never seen her say anything bad about you before, so seeing her long, scathing  post this afternoon was a bit of a shock.

63 59 CoolCzech - Pamela Gellar is not a weather girl. And the fact that you either don't know who she is and would say that without knowing, or you know who she is, but have no qualms about trashing her, makes me have less respect for you. Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 02:19 PM (+tzv7) Diane, I know who she is, and I was NOT referring to HER. I just meant it would be cool to see a reporter in a bikini give a weather report in the middle of bikini-top ripping storms. Now, you may still disrespect me for the sexist pig that I happily am *oink, oink*... but please disrespect me for the right reason.

64 Ix-nay on the alking-tay. New duty teacher in the study hall.

65 Ace, when the Atkins diet came out, I realized that, whoa, that's how I've been eating all my life. I am partial to red meat, butter on everything, and anything smothered in gravy. Very little use for vegetables and even less use for fruit and juices. I have eaten whatever the hell I want (which is mostly what I just listed) for 60 years and I have always been pretty skinny. How much is genetics, I don't know, although I suspect quite a bit. I've also, without even trying, dropped 10% of my body weight since becoming a slave in a law factory, although I don't recommend this method for anyone who values their sanity. {comments have gone a little fubar}

66 Fat IS bad, Ace.. because when eaten with carbs in a balanced diet, it clogs up your arteries and kills you.

That statement is just flat out wrong.  All fat is not bad; your body needs it...including saturated fat. 

I'm not an Atkins diet follower but if people become erratic on Atkins, it may be because they're probably doing their own 'version' of it.   

And don't believe the bad rap eggs have gotten.  They are one of the most healthy foods you can eat but if you throw out the yolk, you're throwing out the most nutritious part.

Check out John Berardi, Isabel del los Rios, and Mike Geary for some good info on eating healthy.  Yeah, they'll talk about organic a lot but they shatter some preconceived notions on diets.

67 I think Pamela is sexy in a bikini.

68 Hard physical work, sweat, and no time to sit around with your hands in the Dorito bag is the cure for obesity.

Prison chain gangs also seem to be a very effective weight loss program. Again, because of hard work and lack of lazy time. Plus, fear of rape and/or murder.

69 TOGA!! TOGA!!

70 Y-not, white bread and whole wheat bread are almost identical on the Glycemic index at around 70.

71

I don't think so.  You have to get a lot of exercise for it to have any effect on your weight.  The numbers just aren't there.

At least for me, the only thing that actually works is carb restriction.

Posted by: Ace's liver at August 27, 2011 02:21 PM (1+XRG)

No, it depends on what kind of exercise. Weightlifting isn't gonna do it. You need aerobic exercise like waking, jogging, jumping jacks, etc. It really does work, but you gotta do it, and that's hard for a lot of people.

72 The Atkins diet is best done under a doctor's supervision, because it is rather extreme, and it is only for weight loss, not for everyday maintenance. It's a great way to lose a lot, quickly, but it's no way to eat on a daily basis over many years.

I think that the Zone diet is more representative to the pre-1965 view: not low-carb, but rather low bad carbs, what we know today as high-glycemic-index carbs: mainly grains and starchy vegetables.

73 From the Geller article: Ace of Spades is one of those juvenile, leering fratboy blogs

They say that like it's a bad thing.

74 I'm 6' 6", and for most of my life I could as much as I wanted of whatever I wanted, and not gain an ounce. However, when I hit my fifties, that changed. Seemingly overnight, I ballooned up to 220: I was literally popping the waist button off my pants. I dropped fifteen pounds simply by eating less: by cutting out all snacks (I work in an office, and somebody's always putting out cookies or cake), and drinking water instead of fruit juice or soda. I dropped another fifteen pounds when I had a spell of gout, and as a result, quit drinking beer and soda altogether. So, today's my 59th birthday; I'm 190 lbs., and I feel great. I honestly have no idea which diet is the best. But common sense tells me that if I can limit what I take in, and in particular if I can cut out calorie-rich processed foods like cookies, soda, and beer, I can't help but do myself good. (Fortunately, Val-U-Rite is low in calories, and roast hobo - the other, other white meat - is nice and lean.) Sure, I miss beer and Oreos, and I guess I always will - just like I still miss cigarettes, even though I quit smoking 27 years ago. But how I feel now more than makes up for it.

75  I'm not sure there's any other way to burn fat except for ketosis.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 02:01 PM (nj1bB)

Except that on the strict Atkins Diet you don't start burning fat cells but mostly muscle cells.

A balanced diet with good carbs and a good excercise regimen burns fat cells, but most people don't see much weightloss, because you gain muscle, which is heavier than fatweight

76 Huh?

77 I had good luck on the Abs Diet (Men's Health) back in 2005 and dropped 30lbs. It took a lot of planning and effort at first to keep eating 6 smaller meals a day (emphasis on protein, plus one cheat meal a week) but I saw results even with little to no exercise. Of course adding exercise turbo-charged the effect. And building muscle does promote weight loss. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn at rest. I'm gonna dust that book off after making a Bacon Explosion today. Has anyone tried making it yet?

78

A Liberal-

Just look at the tax revenue in the Bush 2 years.  Then check the revenue in the Clinton years.  Bush had 2 recessions that shrunk his revenue during those periods, but generally speaking he had top knotch revenue increases.  Revenue is a factor of multiple items, but if you put in the Bush tax cuts, less onerous regulations, business-friendly WH, it adds up to $$$.

Obama is anti-business and could give a shit.  The aces, czars, and thugs at the WH, along with their dept heads are crushing business as we speak.  They do not really care if we stay in a recession because it helps their cause for more stimulus.  If they can find a way to cause a need to issue more stimulus, they will.  It is in their DNA.  EVERYTHING is about redistribution.

79 I really would not recommend any diet that forces your body to go into an unusual metabolic state to promote weight loss. It is much better to reduce calories, increase exercise, and try to take in a balanced diet low in processed foods. Posted by: Y-not at August 27, 2011 02:11 PM (5H6zj) This. These kinds of diets just don't work in the long term because they rely on temporary states that one cannot really maintain for long. Let's be blunt, if you really want to lose weight, some lifestyle changes are probably in order.

80 I guess everyone is different, but for me it came down to simple math. If I keep my calories under 2000 per day, I lose weight. I eat whatever I want, just don't bust the calorie quota. I can't speak to the health effects, but I certainly lost weight (30 lbs in 6 months).

Skinny Cow ice cream bars are a nice low calorie way to satisfy a sweet tooth.

81 Damn, the comments side of the site is really out of whack for me today.

82 73

I don't think so.  You have to get a lot of exercise for it to have any effect on your weight.  The numbers just aren't there.

At least for me, the only thing that actually works is carb restriction.

Posted by: Ace's liver at August 27, 2011 02:21 PM (1+XRG)

No, it depends on what kind of exercise. Weightlifting isn't gonna do it. You need aerobic exercise like waking, jogging, jumping jacks, etc. It really does work, but you gotta do it, and that's hard for a lot of people.

Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 02:27 PM (LD21B)

Again, the numbers just aren't there.  A half hour of aerobic exercise only burns about 300 calories, give or take, which is a number that will be completely swamped by your diet.

Sure, if you're training like an Olympic athlete then you can eat 4000 calories a day, but that's not realistic for most people.

83

No, it depends on what kind of exercise. Weightlifting isn't gonna do it. You need aerobic exercise like waking, jogging, jumping jacks, etc. It really does work, but you gotta do it, and that's hard for a lot of people.

Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 02:27 PM (LD21B)

Actually, you need weightlifting and anaerobic exercise.

84 >>> I did Atkins once and it killed my energy, really didn't dig it. I won't dispute your own personal history, but I never found that. I find the opposite. On the metapoint, you bring up political economics, and say there's an unjustified certainty there. 1, That's politics. All politicians and pundits are salesmen for a particular ideology, and like any salesman, they profess a greater confidence in their product than might be warranted (or that they actually might have). 2, there really is a fairly good amount of evidence for it, you know. Most tax cuts are followed by increased revenues. The liberal case against them relies upon the counterfactual -- the claim that, without the tax cuts, revenues would have gone up *more.* That many be true but that is counterfactual, speculative, whereas the actual observed evidence is that gross receipts do go up when taxes are cut. Now you can argue about that, argue about counterfactuals, argue about the cause-effect here (would have happened anyhow, etc.), but all of this proceeds firstly from denigrating the actual observed empirical results of the "test." 3, science is different, or it is supposed to be different. I believe you confess more than you intend to when you compare the supposed "science" of global warming to ordinary politics with politicians making outsized claims with little evidence -- you seem to be conceding, without meaning to, that these "scientists" are behaving just like political salesmen. This does not avail you. I assume (without knowing) you have some kind of respect for science. If so, surely you must see the problem with saying "the global warming 'scientists' aren't behaving any worse than politicians and are just employing some of their tricks." In fact you've hit the nail on the head, that as science becomes politicized, it is the science that gets dirty and tainted, not the politics that becomes more rational and evidence-based.

85 I give up. Site out of whack? Forever on refresh, half the comments get swallowed.......pain in the ass

86 One thing that DOES piss me off about Pamela G., though, is going to her site and seeing headlines like this: Perry Mafia Punked, "Beclowned" Indeed Associating Perry with the MAFIA? I'm not really sure what exactly is behind her (and Malkin's) hate for Perry, but this is nuts. Perry may well become the nominee - and our ONLY chance to get rid of Obama in 2012. Going for the jugular like these two gals are seems... counterproductive, at best.

87 I was always a fat kid, and grew into a fat adult. 5'9" and topped out somewhere over 200lbs until around 5 years ago when I decided it was time to do something about it.

I now maintain a weight around 155lbs. Wanna know my super secret diet? I call it, the shut your mouth and stop stuffing it full of food diet. I basically took what I'd normally eat, and cut it in half, eliminated drinking anything other than water, and filled my reduced food intake with lotsa water. When I felt like I was starting to handle getting through the day on my reduced meal sizes, I'd cut them in half again. After about 8 months of this, I was down to 150lbs.

Prior attempts to lose weight would involve me trying to run. After a few weeks, I could go about 2 and a half miles before nearly passing out gasping for breath. I'd eat a shit ton of food afterwards, never lost weight. Once I got down to 150lbs, I started running again. The 2 and a half was a breeze. I now do 5-6 miles pretty much everyday as long as it isn't raining, sometimes double that if I'm feeling it.

I run this much so I could return to my old diet. I enjoy unhealthy, greasy foods, covered in copious amounts of bacon, cheese, and mayo. It's either a shit load of running, or back to being a fat ass. I'll take the running.

88 Again, the numbers just aren't there.  A half hour of aerobic exercise only burns about 300 calories, give or take, which is a number that will be completely swamped by your diet.

This is a perfect illustration of what you're saying.

http://tinyurl.com/ck75hy

89 Okay, Diet Religion aside, one of the key points of the "warmening" debate is that the "environmentalists" and the rest of the allies on the left have not only been parlaying falsified and misleading data, they've also been playing another shell game as well.

The problem is the difference between "Climate Change," "Anthropogenic Global Warming," and "Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming."

CC was a term come up with largely because of controversy over the other terms (and the fact that it was actually cooling), but also to hide the distinction.

The shell game was that the "Team" behind the political push was saying that they could prove AGW and it was accepted (that human activity had an effect, no matter how small, on climate), therefore people had to accept policies (and spending) intended to counteract CAGW (that human activity had a catastrophic and/or irreversible effect on climate).

It's kind of like proving in court that someone committed harassment and sentencing them for murder.

Unfortunately people love to summarize and end up arguing fruitlessly about the subject in general while specifically talking about other things - i.e. each side using the same words but meaning different standards. So the debate is practically worthless between the sides, both sides end up yelling among themselves.

It also doesn't help that the power-mad lefties behind the carbon schemes and bans are more interested in control than the facts, as usual.

90

Again, the numbers just aren't there.  A half hour of aerobic exercise only burns about 300 calories, give or take, which is a number that will be completely swamped by your diet.

Sure, if you're training like an Olympic athlete then you can eat 4000 calories a day, but that's not realistic for most people.

Posted by: Ace's liver at August 27, 2011 02:51 PM (1+XRG)

It doesn't have to be 4000 calories a day, every little bit helps. What is for sure is that if you sit on your ass all day, you WILL get fat. Period.

91 When I say "I found the opposite," actually, it wasn't the "opposite." I got no boost in energy (though Atkins claimed I would) but also noticed no decline in it. I hadn't been one of those people whose energy level varies with food intake, really, though. I always have the same energy level -- low-ish. I don't know if this is an energy thing, but when I'm on Atkins, I feel generally better, and when I indulge in carbs, I feel generally worse. Does anyone have acid reflux? I used to have it very very badly. When I went on Atkins, it just stopped. One week ago I went bananas and went to 7-11 and got Combos. And pringles. And Doritos. it was late and I just felt like eating bad foods. I ate them. I woke up two hours later with that horrible reflux (this is going to gross you out), choking on thick phlegm in the back of my throat that was shot through with powerful gastric acid. I coughed and coughed and tried to clear my throat of the vicious stuff and thought (after six minutes of coughing and spitting) I might have to go to the hospital. Eventually I got it all out. Point: That was my first late-at-night carb indulgence in six years or so and that was the first recurrence of reflux. It happened immediately. Anyway, I'm not doing that again.

92 I am sure Ace is making this point, or maybe he saw the documentary "Fathead" which calls out the radical leftist vegetarian (BIRM) who created the fakey food pyramid.

93
The wife of president stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure is on a see food diet.

94 >> although I don't see anywhere in the Bible he asks you to believe that; that seems to come from a "consensus of experts" we call "Biblical Scholars"

Actually I don't think most respectable Biblical Scholars would suggest the Earth is 6000 years old. I don't think there is a consensus of experts. Most Biblical Scholars are perfectly fine accepting modern science.

95 oh, and I think I get Ace's larger point, blah blah liberals, facts, science. Liberals will believe in or hate whatever they're told to hate. The liberal pathology comes with a memory hole.

96

Actually, you need weightlifting and anaerobic exercise.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 02:51 PM (X6akg)

Afaik, weightlifting doesn't burn fat. It is short duration, high intensity exercise and that's mostly carbs.

97 Good Thing Pixy Misa has all the blog emergency backup stuff covered... otherwise, we might hardly be able to post comments! Come to think of it... maybe he's running low on Pixy Dust?

98 Shit don't work.

99 Actually, maybe I'm being too hard on Pixy... After all, one can backup power supplies, drives, providers, etc., etc., etc. But who could predict Ace would puke Val-U-Rite all over the server?

100 Ace, you getting rain bands yet?

101 39 Was PG video blogging in a bikini?  That seems way out of character for her. 

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 02:09 PM (+tzv7)

_____________________________________________________________

Uh, what?? She made videoblogging her tits her claim to fame.

102 If you eliminate all added sugar (processed foods) and eat only whole foods the weight will gradually drop off.
I had to do this after developing seborrhea and luckily the natural sugar in fruits and vegetables have no negative effect.
I went from 265 to 210 (I'm 6'51/2'') in about 6 months, largely with no additional exercise as elevating my respiration rate made the skin condition intolerable until it cleared.
I now don't have an ounce of fat on me. And I am constantly snacking on the good stuff, and I eat steak, chicken pork, potatoes, rice pasta and bread regularly until full at every meal.
One other detail, and not a minor one - no alcohol whatsoever. but if you've ever had seborrhea it's not even close to a question even for a 30+ year daily whiskey drinker like myself.

103

Tami:  I can tell you from experience that simply working out won't cut it.  You need to SERIOUSLY work out to lose weight, and even then it is tough.  Interval training along with cutting calories does the job, but you will be hungry all the time.

My new trick is eating less and working out less.  Dropped 8 lb's.  Does not seem like a lot, but I was not overweight starting out.

So, calories in, calories out.  'Nuf said.

104 @103: OK, I'm not touching that one...

105 I'm surprised Pamela Geller took time away from her Crusade to stoop to commenting about this blog.  Too bad she didn't use that time to read the curriculum she went eleventy on Perry over. 

106 "the consensus" can S my D. Nine months ago, I was eating too many carbs, wrong portions, and not getting enough exercise. My BP and blood sugar were borderline concerns. I changed my diet. More, smaller meals - all with protein. Buffalo, turkey, chicken. No carbs after lunch. More veggies. No fruit. I changed my exercise habit - first, working in cardio to build up my stamina and lose the first 20 pounds. Then weight and resistance training for the next 20 after I plateaued. My body fat is under 20%. My BP is 110/70. I'm fitting into clothes sizes I haven't fit into since high school. This works for me. It won't work for everyone.

107

Actually, you need weightlifting and anaerobic exercise.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 02:51 PM (X6akg)

You must mean aerobic...unless I'm missing some sort of joke.

Actually, fitness experts recommend against aerobic for weight loss as a sustained exercise like that increase hunger, and the person consumes more calories.

What they do recommend is shorter intervals with high energy bursts..like walking or jogging, then sprinting a short distance.

I did the Atkins after I messed up my knee and gained about 20 lbs because I did not cut back on calories (I do like to eat) and could not exercise. It worked for me.

Strangely enough, I mentioned this to someone on an ONT when she said she wanted to lose 15lbs...and I got jumped ugly by the crowd there. This person said she wasn't losing anything despite drinking "healthy" fruit smoothies. I had to explain that a Mountain Dew had less simple carbs.

The ideas for weight training have changed also. It used to be thought that low weight high reps were good for building muscle and strength. Instead, studies show that high weight and low rep count is more effective.

I hadn't lifted weights for years, but I started with the Rippetoe method a couple of months back and the results are better than anything I accomplished when I was younger,

108 Adkins is unhealthy. the South beach diet is better. The only diet i would recomend for weight loss is no carb. Greens, meat and cheese. after about 48 hours your body goes into ketosis and starts burning fat. You also shed alot of fluid so I would drink plenty of water. You get constipated so you need laxitives (no fiber ones) After 2 weeks take a few days to get back on carbs. After two weeks, the diet loses effectiveness (i have gone for five weeks) One good side effect of the diet is that it starves your brain of glycogen, so you turn into an idiot. For someone like me who can't ever turn their brain off, it's a good thing. The only way to lose wieght and keep it off is to eat sensibly, stay away from refined sugars and weigh your portions. I would also say excecise , but it's not going to help as much as a proper diet.

109

I don't think so.  You have to get a lot of exercise for it to have any effect on your weight.  The numbers just aren't there

It's not just excercise. 

Laziness tends to lead to poor nutritional choice and a lot of 'convenient' meals.

Walking short distances to places, taking the stairs, commuting via bike if you have the ability to...all of these will contribute to a healthier you.

You don't need to be thin to be healthy.  But being lazy tends to lead to being unhealthy. 

110

Tami:  I can tell you from experience that simply working out won't cut it.  You need to SERIOUSLY work out to lose weight, and even then it is tough.  Interval training along with cutting calories does the job, but you will be hungry all the time.

My new trick is eating less and working out less.  Dropped 8 lb's.  Does not seem like a lot, but I was not overweight starting out.

So, calories in, calories out.  'Nuf said.

Posted by: Lonely conservative in MI at August 27, 2011 03:02 PM (rZZA3)

I wasn't suggesting simply working out would do it.  (see the video in #90).  Any fitness professional will tell you diet is 90% of the battle.  But weightlifting builds muscle...muscle burns calories at rest. 

It's both.

111 77 Except that on the strict Atkins Diet you don't start burning fat cells but mostly muscle cells. A balanced diet with good carbs and a good excercise regimen burns fat cells, but most people don't see much weightloss, because you gain muscle, which is heavier than fatweight ********************************** Huh? Where did you get that? Body builders have a low carb diet and they are covered in muscle. Yeah, some use roids, but some don't. Results are the same...lots of muscle. Yeah, the roiders have MORE muscle than the natural body builders, but the natural body builders still have lots of muscle too. The idea that the Atkins diet causes you to burn muscle cells is something I've never heard of, and frankly flies in the face of all of my experiences.

112 What they do recommend is shorter intervals with high energy bursts..like walking or jogging, then sprinting a short distance.

Yes, which is anaerobic.

113 105
Posted by: Lonely conservative in MI at August 27, 2011 03:02 PM (rZZA3)

This too was my experience. I was always moderately fit for an out-of-shape fatty, which is why I could sustain a couple miles running, but my fat ass would be gasping for breath, and chowing down a few hobos whole an hour later. I would attempt this on and off for years with no weight loss effect

It wasn't until I focused on the intake side that my weight dropped. Once I got it down to a respectable level, I started to exercise again and found I was more physically fit than I've ever been in my life.

But I've found exercise works best as a weight gain prevention, and then probably only when you're in decent shape already. I know I ate far more than normal following a good work out before I lost weight, wouldn't be surprised if the exercise then helped me gain weight.

114 53 I knew what to order at restaurants, moderate steak dinner, stir fried shrimp, etc.
At the candy store each week, I had 3 truffles.

In a nutshell, instead of going by what other people or books tell you to eat, figure out your own cravings, and find ways to eat moderately within them.

I'm addicted to this pie bakery, Hoosier Mama, where I get several slices to bring home (never can choose 1), but then just eat a few bites at a time. They're so rich, they totally satisfy my sugar craving, esp. the Fat Elvis (chocolate, pb, bananas, graham crackers and pretzels).  If I try to cut something out altogether, I just end up obsessed, and compensate with something else (the story of my Lents).

115

I think Ace's point about accepted wisdom trends (low carb, low fat fads in diet) and accepted wisdom about AGW can easily be extended to Truthers, Keynesians and conspiracy theorists.  Human nature is to claim to possess the secret knowledge.  Even when there is empirical evidence to the contrary. 

116

Ace, very interesting post. I would say evidence abounds as respects the wisdom of so called, "experts." 

Take for example the current economic depression we are in. Experts in the areas of finance running fannie mae, freddie mac, the fed and in the private sector, lehman brothers and banks were experts, yet they allowed 40 to 1 leveraging and quadrillion of derivatives into the market based on underwriting toxic mortgages.

Experts.... exactly.

Intuition, attention and common sense should always be applied vs. allegiance to the so called, experts.

117 98 Actually, you need weightlifting and anaerobic exercise. Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 02:51 PM (X6akg) Afaik, weightlifting doesn't burn fat. It is short duration, high intensity exercise and that's mostly carbs. Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 02:57 PM (LD21B) People say weightlifting on the theory that if you gain muscle mass you calorie budget goes up because muscles consume calories even when you're not using them. Here again, the numbers don't work out very well. It takes about 6 calories a day for your body to maintain a pound of muscle, versus 2 for a pound of fat. So if you replace ten pounds of fat with ten pounds of muscle you're going to end up adding a whopping 40 calories to you daily budget. That's about half a teaspoon of butter.

118 "I dropped another fifteen pounds when I had a spell of gout, and as a result, quit drinking beer and soda altogether.
Posted by: Brown Line"

BL, and anyone else this may concern, if you have recurrent Gout attacks like I used to, see your Doc about Allopurinol.  ($4/mo. @ Wally World pharmacy) 

My Doc put me on one 300mg tab/day 6-7 years ago, and other an occasional twinge when I over-indulge in a gout inducing substance, I haven't had an attack since.

The last round I had with gout, my left knee swelled up to the size of a soccer ball and I could feel pain w/ every beat of my heart as the blood was pushed thru it.

119 Hrmm.  This comment system is really sucking today.

120 Ugh... the formatting is wacky in the comment area.  Comment #113 is all jacked up because of it.

And yet the guilt still stings...

121 Someone feed the hamsters.

122

Ace, in addition to Taube's book, I highly recommend the documentary Fat Head. It is a re-buttal to the documentary Super Size Me.

Here's the link to the guys blog:

 

http://www.fathead-movie.com/

 

123 OH, and I should add that I eat/drink pretty much what I want to within the confines of my Diabeetus and the Val-U-Rite monkey on my back.

124 Posted by: Ace's liver at August 27, 2011 03:11 PM (1+XRG)

Findings are showing that the body is actually using quite a bit of energy building the muscle back up after it is "torn down" by exercise..especially weightlifting

125
One of my current projects is planning the start of the world's first:

Fitness Chain Gang.

Volunteer participants present a clean bill of health from their Doctor.
They sign a waiver.

Then my I line them up and make them work all damn day cutting weeds, picking up garbage, breaking rocks, and digging ditches.

Nothing but water and simple meat, vegetables, and bread all day.

I will also hire their fat asses out to local municipalities to make money and clean the place up.

126 #103 - I didn't know her then.  Was she in fact a weather girl that showed her tits, or what was the deal?  You're already trashing her character in your innuendos, so any further info wouldn't make much difference. Just make sure you can back it up.

127 114 What they do recommend is shorter intervals with high energy bursts..like walking or jogging, then sprinting a short distance. Yes, which is anaerobic. Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 03:09 PM (X6akg) You mean like forearm curls, holding a can of Budweiser?

128 I'm thinking of calling the company:

Cool Hand Fitness

129 _{You're already trashing her character in your innuendos, so any further info wouldn't make much difference. Just make sure you can back it up.}

_{Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 03:15 PM (+tzv7)}

Bitch be crazy.

130 Afaik, weightlifting doesn't burn fat. It is short duration, high intensity exercise and that's mostly carbs.

Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 02:57 PM (LD21B)

Weightlifting builds muscle mass, muscle, when moved (through aerobic exercise), burns fat.

You have to do both, though.

Also I know of "zero-carb" weightlifters, who seem to manage without instantaneous blood-sugar injections from a baked potato or whatever. It's kind of a rare thing, though, because the orthodoxy is "carbs - blood sugar - muscle performance." But it works.

Shit, I said I wasn't going to get involved in the Diet Religion Wars, didn't I?

131 @128: Dianne, to clarify, I just said that someone's comment about Pam in a bikini reminded me of the concept of a bikini clad weather girl. I was NOT smearing Pamela, though I think she's losing it over Perry.

132 @89 That's my basic story too. 31years old. 6'4" 274lb. prehyper tension along with a whole host of other ailments. 6 years later. 200 lbs. all health problems gone. Ride 17 miles a day, 6 days a week. Soft sand run 5 k once a every few weeks. SS running is brutal, but you don't bang up your body as much, strenthens alot more muscles that running on pavement, burns more calories and there are plenty of bikinni clad women to look at.

133

Somebody up there said they were 6'6" and 190 lbs.  I'm 6'6" and 235 and I think I'm skinny. 

Dude, drag thy bones to Dairy Queen.

134

Why do people think "what "you consume matters? I know that eating a pound of candy is not really healthy, but a 300 calorie candy bar will not kill you.

If, hypothetically, I consumed 2000 calories that consisted only of simple sugars (my allowance to maintain weight) I would be in the same place if I consumed 2000 caloried of fruit.  My arteries and insulin levels MIGHT not be happy, but I will maintain my weight.  So, why all the NO SUGAR?

I like candy.

135 My lady friend hates me cuz I'm one of those type that pump iron, do aerobics and eat like a horse. If I eat a regular diet I'll lose to much weight looking like a bag of bones and she don't like that.

136 My nutritionist suggested stevia as a sweetener, which I didn't like the 1st time I tried it, but now that I've found an excellent pure liquid concentrate, I prefer it to sugar or other substitutes.  Mrs. Gran has gotten quite adept at making ice cream with xylitol (not a zero-calorie sweetener but still natural)

Anyone out there who doesn't want to give up sweets to lose weight, don't fret - there are ways to satisfy the sweet tooth besides simple carbs or artificial sweeteners.

137

Both Gellar and Malkin are grossly overestimating their importance, if they think that they will be able to influence the outcome of the primaries.

Their transparent strategy of bashing Perry in the hopes holding the door open for Palin to still get in the race will ultimately leave them embarrassed.....when Palin makes a fool of them by either not getting in the race, or by getting in the race and splitting the vote so badly that Romney wins the nomination.

Either way, they will then be left with damaged credibility for their zombie-like advocacy of a candidate who played their loyalties for her own selfish gain. 

138 Ace-

Hard to respond with Pixy going crazy and all, but...

1) Sure, of course we agree.

2, there really is a fairly good amount of evidence for it, you know. Most tax cuts are followed by increased revenues. The liberal case against them relies upon the counterfactual -- the claim that, without the tax cuts, revenues would have gone up *more.* That many be true but that is counterfactual, speculative, whereas the actual observed evidence is that gross receipts do go up when taxes are cut. Now you can argue about that, argue about counterfactuals, argue about the cause-effect here (would have happened anyhow, etc.), but all of this proceeds firstly from denigrating the actual observed empirical results of the "test."

I actually wasn't referring to the counterfactual. In the 1990s, after the top marginal rate went up to 39.6 (from 35, or 36?), revenues increased. But they also did in the 1980's when they went down by a lot (and then back up again). The 2000's were a mixed bag, depending on the year (early decade was stronger, later decade much weaker, same tax rate). Am I off there? When you say, "Most tax cuts are followed by increased revenues," are you going back further than the last 30 years?

My larger point was that the effect that marginal tax rates have on the overall economy might be, as Mickey would say, overdetermined.

On point 3, we may be saying the same thing different ways:

In fact you've hit the nail on the head, that as science becomes politicized, it is the science that gets dirty and tainted, not the politics that becomes more rational and evidence-based.

Yes, but who's politicizing the science? I would suggest that pointing holes in a scientific theory is not the same as Rush Limbaugh getting on the air every day and saying that global warming advocates are socialists bent on a one-world government headed by Algore. (Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.)  And I say that as a moderate skeptic. There's debate, and then there's rhetoric.

But at a certain point, when a highly motivated segment of the politcal population decides they want to make an ideological stand for or against something, it inevitably becomes tainted by politics, and facts become fungible all the way around. There's only "this side says x, this side says y." Is it possible to debate science that affects political decisions without that kind of stuff involved? Not sure.

Honestly, like I said, I'm not a big global warming guy so I'm not dying on that hill. But I think there's a larger point there that we agree on about science being politicized. It carries over into stem-cell research and origin of life issues as well.

139 Yes, which is anaerobic.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 03:09 PM (X6akg)

Sorry Tami...feeling kind of stupid here. My brian was stuck on the technical definition of the word anaerobic...literally meaning w/o oxygen.

140 Gellar and Malkin aren't funny. Both of them couldn't get a waxed string out of their asses with a tractor.

141 If you don't like a diet study that comes out today, wait three months. One saying the opposite will come out.

142 Yeah, as mentioned above, Fathead on netflix streaming discusses this subject and bashes Morgan Spurlocks anti mcdonalds propaganda pretty good.  Boy that 'documentary' was a load of crap.

I like how he (spurlock) went along with the lawyers suing food companies and said that he became 'addicted' to Mcdonalds.. all the while dreading eating the food and 'throwing up' afterwords.

The blood tests after his experiment were such bullshit, the doctor involved should have said it was probably due to another medical problem.. as it was.  But he couldn't, due to privacy rights.. You don't show signs of acute liver failure just from eating fast food for a month.  Give me a break

143 Hey, you Fat Fuck!!  Wanna lose weight??  Then order my Guaranfuckinteed to work weight loss tape. 

It ain't video tape, and it ain't audio tape... 

It's fuckin' Duct Tape. 

Tear off a 6" strip and put it over your festering gob so the goddam Ding Dongs don't get in and watch as the pounds magically melt away....

144 I myself would like to see the weathermen reporting from the beach in board shorts. Just because.

145 (H/T to the late Richard Jeni.)

146 Was Pamela doing soft-core porn before she had a blog?

147 Weight Loss with Low-Carb Diet

The initial weight loss you may observe with decreasing the amount of calories you obtain from carbohydrate is often water weight. Carbs are stored in the body in the form of glycogen in the liver and muscles. Glycogen holds water, approximately 3 ounces for 1 gram. Low-carb diets decrease the amount of glycogen in your body and overall, water is lost. You also decrease the total amount of calories you consume, which contributes to a negative energy balance.

(From the Live Strong web site.)

148 But, #139, what is she saying about Perry that isn't true? I'm willing to listen.

149 >>>Anyone out there who doesn't want to give up sweets to lose weight, don't fret - there are ways to satisfy the sweet tooth besides simple carbs or artificial sweeteners. The problem for me is that while you can make almost-no-carb ice cream, ice cream is not my secret shame. I crave donuts and other bready treats, and there is no way to fake the bread. Well there is fake bread but they don't make it for the sweet stuff.

150 The YooToob Richard Jeni bit...

151 128 #103 - I didn't know her then.  Was she in fact a weather girl that showed her tits, or what was the deal?  You're already trashing her character in your innuendos, so any further info wouldn't make much difference. Just make sure you can back it up.

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 03:15 PM (+tzv7)

____________________________________________________________

The weather thing was something someone said they were reminded of when discussing babes in bikinis. As for "trashing her character" how is stating the truth trashing someone's character? She posted several videoblogs of herself in a bikini, frolicking in the water, etc., that were serving the purpose of getting her links. Everyone knows this, this is not new information. She didn't move on to Obama birth certificate obsession until much later. People here that have been following her here since she started blogging know what's what. BTW, she hates Ace, has trashed him on several occasions.

 

152 @145

Easier said than done, 'bagger -- I have no control over my diet!  There you go again with that arcane "personal responsibility" thing you fascists are always bringing up.  Get with the 21st century already.  We need Federal intervention to make sure we all eat healthy foods!

153 114 What they do recommend is shorter intervals with high energy bursts..like walking or jogging, then sprinting a short distance.

Yes, which is anaerobic.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 03:09 PM (X6akg)

Is this a new thing, as in the past few months or so? Because I've never heard that for fat burning. Intense, short duration exercise uses up carbs not fat, due to the way the energy pathway works. When you do that kind of exercise, your body needs energy NOW, so it dumps the most readily available energy source it has, and that is not fat.

So unless there's been some new discoveries about energy metabolism, weightlifting and sprinting, etc don't really burn much fat.

154 Good example, but libs do this all the time. Or at least they're the ones who do it predominantly. Bill Maher pooh-poohs vaccines. Most of the people who believe in all the New Age stuff like acupuncture, aromatherapy, astrology, crystals, homeopathic medicine, etc., etc. are libs.

155 To summarize my longer post above.

You're losing water,  not fat,  on a low carb diet.

You're also losing energy.  You will be a sleepy,  fat,  dehydrated guy.

156 I crave donuts and other bready treats, and there is no way to fake the bread.

Well there is fake bread but they don't make it for the sweet stuff.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 03:26 PM (nj1bB)

ace, I thought you said one time that wheat products actually give you mild seizures. 

157 >>>I actually wasn't referring to the counterfactual. In the 1990s, after the top marginal rate went up to 39.6 (from 35, or 36?), revenues increased. Yes there was that. But there are the other cases where tax cuts also resulted in higher revenues. The case against either relies on the counterfactual. But you can't overlook that when people have promised "I'll cut taxes and revenues will rise," they actually have tended to actually rise.

158

Weightlifting builds muscle mass, muscle, when moved (through aerobic exercise), burns fat.

You have to do both, though.

Also I know of "zero-carb" weightlifters, who seem to manage without instantaneous blood-sugar injections from a baked potato or whatever. It's kind of a rare thing, though, because the orthodoxy is "carbs - blood sugar - muscle performance." But it works.

Shit, I said I wasn't going to get involved in the Diet Religion Wars, didn't I?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 27, 2011 03:17 PM (bxiXv)

Oh, I'm not saying don't do weightlifting, I'm just saying that weightlifting does not directly burn fat. Aerobic exercise does.

I hope I'm not implying that any of this is simple and easy, it's not. Staying healthy and trim is a multifront battle and requires a lot of effort and discipline. It seems that a lot of Americans have neither.

159

Ace....mmm donuts. Those chocolate covered creme filled ones are killer.

I am lucky that there is no donut shop in the semi-rural area where I live....However, I must confess that those Toaster Strudel thingys out of the freezer are one of my guilty pleasures. The boston cream pie ones are actually not bad.

160 At one point I weighed 220 and didn't want to anymore.

So I started eating as little fat as possible. I ate chicken and shrimp, no mayo, moved to skim milk and at tons of sugar and other carbs
My friends took to saying, "Here comes Veeshir, hide your women and bread". I ate sherbert and Skittles and all manner of high carb stuff while keeping fat to a minimum.
I lost 60 lbs from August to November while working my way up to 50 sit-ups a day. That was the extent of my exercise.

So I'm gonna have to say that low-fat diets lead to weight loss.

161 <em>It carries over into stem-cell research and origin of life issues as well.

Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at August 27, 2011 03:20 PM (wqNCb)</em>

Hey, guys, look! Remember what I just said about people abusing terminology for political ends?

Conservatives aren't against stem-cell research. SoCons are particularly against government-funded *embryonic* stem-cell research, partly because it means taxpayer money funding the harvesting of human embryos, and partly because all the juice is in adult stem-cell research anyway.

Researchers like embryo cells because it's "sexy," i.e. it has the potential for really innovative "tricks" because the cells are undifferentiated. On the other hand, the differentiated adult cells are doing all the work that non-researchers want done.

Just like some people drop the "catastrophic" or even "anthropogenic" parts of CAGW and AGW as part of an argument, peeps sure LOOOOOVE to drop the "embryonic" part of the stem cell controversy. I've had to correct two DOCTORS on that (sure weakens my faith in their professionalism that they abuse facts for ideological purposes).

Also, tax rates vs. revenues obviously doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's an effect relative to other economic factors. The "all else being equal" part is usually left out, sadly.

Also, seriously, equivocation on CAGW? For reals? After the amount of sheer fraud and billions if not trillions committed to social and industrial control in the Europe and North America?

162 >>>You're also losing energy. You will be a sleepy, fat, dehydrated guy. The trouble with you repeating the prevailing theory -- like so many, again and again -- is that all of us who've tried this have heard this theory. We'e also tried the other theory. We have found the other theory is correct. (For those who had good results, which is many of us.) So you can keep telling me the theory over and over and I can tell you when I started on Atkins I dropped 40 or 50 pounds in three months and felt terrific.

163 The secret to weight loss? Eat correctly, limit crap foods like Doritos and soft drinks to very very small amounts, or eliminate them entirely. Exercise 4-5 times a week for 30-45 minutes a day, drink plenty of water, and if that doesn't work, use meth daily for two weeks.

Weight will just fall off you on that.
lol

164 Wow! di butler, when did you become a muslim?  OMG!  women frolicking in bathing suits and taking pictures, good gracious, what's the world coming too.

Isn't this just what you look for in your conservative women?  Except when they disagree with you.

165

Ace,

I totally crave carbs like rice and pasta. I had a rough first couple of days on Fatkid's, but honestly, I was over it and did fine by day 5, (and I suck at willpower), and started losing weight. The biggest benefit was that I no longer really felt hungry and could have gone 8 hrs between meals, easily. I screwed up after some dental surgery and started back eating full-time heavy carbs, and I actually realized I feel like hell. Bloated and listless. I am heading back to meat, eggs, greens, and fish starting Monday.

166 You're also losing energy.  You will be a sleepy,  fat,  dehydrated guy.

Just like those cavemen?

167 I crave donuts and other bready treats, and there is no way to fake the bread.
Well there is fake bread but they don't make it for the sweet stuff.
Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 03:26 PM (nj1bB)

Start walking and then start adding running to the routine.  If you want to eat like a runner (who doesn't) start behaving like a runner.  And don't say you can't run or you have bad feet or knees.  The reason most people have bad knees and feet is because they are weak from not being used.  Take the time to strengthen them.  But first,  go to a good running shoe store (not FootLocker or some such crap) an they will tell you what shoe to buy after watching your stride.  Running is a life changer.

168 >>>So I'm gonna have to say that low-fat diets lead to weight loss. Well I can't tell you you're wrong. I did that too, actually, at an earlier point in my life. It was post college and apparently my metabolism just said "It's time to pork up." I did the normal thing they claim, low-fat, eating less. I also exercised like crazy. At this point in my life I could for reasons I won't get into, but I ran like four miles a day, weightlifted three or four times a week, and swam the other days of the week (that is, between weightlifting). One day a week I did all three. I was incredibly dizzy and hungry all the time. On the other hand, as you can imagine, a month of this and... well, I went from fat to kind of skinny. Every day people were remarking "What is going on?" Well what was going on is that I was almost starving myself and working out more than I ever had in my entire life. Kind of hard core. Now it worked. It really worked. The trouble is, I don't really think I could ever do that again. As it was, I could only stay on that hardcore starve-and-run-and-swim-and-workout regimen for two and a half months or so. Yes, it worked. I mean, it was impossible for it not to work, as I was eating very little and was exercising like a madman. But I was dizzy. I was constantly aware of how hungry I was. The visible impact of all this sustained me and encouraged me, but eventually you have to stop.

169

 if that doesn't work, use meth daily for two weeks.

Weight will just fall off you on that.

 

The Jenny Crank Diet ^®  

 

170 There is actually an even stronger case along these lines - ulcers and H pylori.

The overwelming consensus view of the scientific established is that ulcers were not caused by bacteria - and that in fact it was impossible for bacteria to live in the stomach. A couple of "fringe" Australian researchers disproved this, but it took a decade for the medical establishment to accept the fact that they were wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence backing up the H pylori theory.

171 >>>I totally crave carbs like rice and pasta. There is a low-carb pasta called Dreamfields. It tastes good. I'm not sure how low-carb it really is, though. It claims 5g per serving but what the hell is a serving?

172

I did the normal thing they claim, low-fat, eating less. I also exercised like crazy. At this point in my life I could for reasons I won't get into, but I ran like four miles a day, weightlifted three or four times a week, and swam the other days of the week (that is, between weightlifting). One day a week I did all three.

In my mind I am seeing Wicket starring in a Rocky style montage...

excellent.

173 So if you've already decided the "consensus of experts" in one field simply do not know what they are talking about and promote bad advice not based on testing and evidence but based on a religious devotion to the Wisdom of Past Sages, why are you so dead certain the consensus of experts in Global Warming has things straight? The main issue for liberals is not whether a theory is true, or appears to be true, or has the backing of experts; it's all a matter of who is perceived to benefit from whether the theory is true or false. Global warming? If true, enlightened government bureaucrats benefit; if it's false, then "big oil" and other evil corporations benefit. Verdict: true. Consensus belief on diets? If true, "big food" and "big medicine" benefit. Verdict: false. Vaccines are good? If true, "big pharma" benefits. Verdict: false. etc.

174 I actually wasn't referring to the counterfactual. In the 1990s, after the top marginal rate went up to 39.6 (from 35, or 36?), revenues increased. But they also did in the 1980's when they went down by a lot (and then back up again). The 2000's were a mixed bag, depending on the year (early decade was stronger, later decade much weaker, same tax rate). Am I off there? When you say, "Most tax cuts are followed by increased revenues," are you going back further than the last 30 years?
Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at August 27, 2011 03:20 PM (wqNCb)

Welcome.

actually revenues spiked sharply in the late 40's when Truman cut top marginal rates, again in the 60's after the JFK cuts, and in the 80s with the Reagan cuts.

There was a more modest increase with the tech bubble in the 90's, and then they dropped in the latter aprt of the decade and early into the 200s where they spiked sharply once again with the Bush cuts.

It ain't revenue that's the problem. It's spending. The keynesian multiplier has never been seen in the wild.

The Keynesians point to WWII as the event that ended the Depression. Not true. the economy did not start expanding again with any real significance until the late 40s because 1) FDR died did his awful economic policies with him. 2) The Bretton Woods agreement which opened up global markets and reversed the gawdawful Smoot Hawley. 3) Truman drastically cut the top tax rates
 

175 But, #139, what is she saying about Perry that isn't true? I'm willing to listen.

Wasn't there was a thread on the subject, why yes, yes there was.

So.... Yeah... The New Smear Is That Rick Perry Is a Dhimmi, Huh?

176

Not all fats are bad.  Our bodies actually need certain fats to function healthily. 

It only  makes sense to eat REAL foods prepared in ways that do not totally destroy or corrupt the nutrition factor.  Stay away from heavily processed stuff, and eat and enjoy in moderation.

And get some regular exercise.

I guess I'm not into the government as the diet dictocrat.

Concerning weightlifting, if I'm correct in my observations, building and maintaining moderate muscle mass helps hold your body up (not so much stress on your joints, esp. as you age, this helps) and helps burn calories more efficiently.

I don't think that muscle building alone (as in solely doing CrossFit, no matter what the "research" says) is healthy.  I recently watched a bulked up military man, ripped beyond anything I'd seen in the past decade, really hurt himself while playing a pick-up game of ball with some middle aged softies.  Agility and lean muscle from aerobic activities (like swimming, aerobics, biking, running, etc.) are good for the body.

 

177 For the love of mike, can Fox please take shep smith off the air?

178 So you can keep telling me the theory over and over and I can tell you when I started on Atkins I dropped 40 or 50 pounds in three months and felt terrific.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 03:33 PM (nj1bB)

No shit?? That's awesome.

179

also, weight loss and fat loss are totally seperate things.

that's the reason people can claim that excercise doesn't lead to weight loss as it builds muscles which weigh more than fat.

fitness.  it's about fitness not weight.

180

It basically boils down to a person's own rate of metabolism, I think....If you are not leading an active life, it is easy to pack on a few pounds, no matter what you are eating.

Eating a handful of white raisins after pigging out on some no-no food, boosts my metabolism and gives me some quick energy to burn off calories. Those little B-12 sublingual tablets are also a good way to boost your metabolism.

181 @159/Ace-

Thanks for responding. I'm not overlooking those cases. I'm just saying they're just as valid as a claim like "upper-rate marginal tax increases don't hurt the economy." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not...maybe it's not determinative?

We're getting closer to my meta point here, which is that claims that are often said to be empirical are often far short of that mark. We agree there. It's just a matter of which claims are pointed out to be less than empirical - liberals and conservatives choose different cases, and often entirely different topics - to bolster their ideological argument.

That's one of the reasons I read this blog - it's rare that your blog and, say, Talking Points Memo are even talking about the same subject. Both blogs are usually busy arguing separate arguments.

I'll grant this: True scientific rigor is actually quite boring and doesn't make for great blog content.

Thanks again for responding. I dig this place, and the people in it, even though I agree with hardly anything that's said. Strange but true.

182 I really have to stress that while the recommended diet-and-exercise thing did work for me (it must; it is a mathematical necessity), I was DIZZY. I was literally dizzy, speaking in conversations at parties took some effort in concentration to keep up with things, and there was a not a moment that passed I was not thinking about eating. Worked? Worked. Sustainable? No. Doable for two and a half months? Yes. But only if you've got a lot of free time.

183 as the drivers of overweight

BEING overweight.

Sorry, that pisses me off.

Same thing with using 'party' as a verb.

184 148 Was Pamela doing soft-core porn before she had a blog? Posted by: Dr Spank at August 27, 2011 03:25 PM (1fB+3) I think that was a flesh-colored bikini top with some decorations added... I think...

185 But I was dizzy. I was constantly aware of how hungry I was. The visible impact of all this sustained me and encouraged me, but eventually you have to stop.

Posted by: ace

Or adjust?  Sound like you could have cut a day or two of exercise and added some calories.  With carbs.  You gotta be able to keep the routine.  Dizzy and hungry is no way to go through life.  Did you switch over to a "maintain" routine instead of the "weight loss" routine?

186

Is this a new thing, as in the past few months or so? Because I've never heard that for fat burning. Intense, short duration exercise uses up carbs not fat, due to the way the energy pathway works. When you do that kind of exercise, your body needs energy NOW, so it dumps the most readily available energy source it has, and that is not fat.

So unless there's been some new discoveries about energy metabolism, weightlifting and sprinting, etc don't really burn much fat.

Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 03:29 PM (LD21B)

Interval training has been around for quite a while.  Yes, it does burn fat by releasing fat burning hormones and it increases your metabolism (they've clocked the increase up to 36 hours-when they stopped checking). 

187 172 There is actually an even stronger case along these lines - ulcers and H pylori.

Posted by: 18-1 at August 27, 2011 03:40 PM (FBr/C)

There are numerous cases like that. There's ongoing research into adenoviruses - they appear to have ongoing effects on people who have had them. Actually change metabolic processes or at least efficiency. Declared *impossible*! Multiple times, but it seems to be bearing out.

Sometimes you just have something that's complex and hard to categorize, has multiple causes or variable symptoms, like diabetes or "gluten intolerance," so one treatment or regimen may work for one person and fail miserably for another, because the *reason* for the symptoms is not what you thought it was.

Last I heard they found six completely different genetic keys to Celiac Disease - it looks like it's multiple similar conditions not one condition - and each condition may have different characteristics.

188

Damn! Ace.  

Just finished reading Geller's post.  

I think it's a little unfair that she holds you accountable for our insistence that her tits complete an otherwise unremarkable package.

 

189 As government 's gotten more and more involved in nutrition, we get fatter.

Isn't that pretty typical of government's track record?

190 Our bodies have no physiological need for carbs. They will be burnt first for fuel, but excess is stored as fat. We get nutrients from vegetable material and fat "building blocks" from protein.

There still are societies today whose diets are nearly 100% animal based..and they do not have the so-called "diseases of civiliztion" like Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, certain cancers and the like.

Nomadic Masai tribes exist almost entirely on animal flesh and blood, which they drink.

The staple of many northern Indian tribes is whale blubber.

Pacific Islanders exist entirely on seafood, some of which has higher naturally occurring cholesterol than any red meat.

191 Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

192 YES! Taubes' first book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, spent the first 1/3 on how the consensus around a low fat diet developed and how weak the actual evidence was. The whole time I was reading it I was seeing the connection to AGW. I'm glad this is going mainstream.

193 Never gets old.

194

Posted by: steevy at August 27, 2011 03:51 PM (pV6cO)

 

In there like Geller's swimwear!

195 BTW, on the weight loss thing - if you're dizzy and hungry, that's not good. I know, insightful comment there.

But seriously, I've had to keep adjusting my routine over time. Adjustments are the key - more fruits, less carbs, whatever.

I've been as high as 220 (totally pigging out) and as low as 170 (workouts six days a week, 1200 calories intake a day). My body wants to be 195-200, I want it to be 180-185. I'm 5'10". It takes a lot of work, work that I'd rather sometimes not do. I'd say that if you can come up with a routine that keeps you within 10 pounds of your goal when you're under stress, that's a win.

196 But, Garrett, is what she's saying about Rick Perry true or not? Inquiring minds want to know!

197 If this has been repeated, my apologies: the Atkins craze kicked off much earlier than 2004.  Dr. Atkins died in 2003, and I thought the fad was winding down before then.  Anyway, my ex-wife worked with a guy in 1995 who followed the Atkins diet.  I also worked with a woman who followed the diet, this was around 1997.  The easiest way to tell if someone is following the Atkins diet?  You can smell their breath from across the room.  Ugh.  I was always a proponent of The Zone.  It really works; however, it's very labor-intensive.  You have to constantly shop for fresh foods only (expensive), and the recipes are time consuming.  Still, a much healthier alternative than Atkins...

198 Barack Obama is a Stuttering Clusterf*ck of a Miserable Failure Ebook, Sorry, I'm sticking to it. In the literature it's said all the time, because people get sick of writing a superfluous word. It's a good word in this usage.

199 Wow Ace, did you REALLY comment on her jugs the first time you met her at CPAC in 2007? Only because the first words out of HER mouth when they met was "How come you call me Atlas Jugs on your blog?" She used to do a lot of bikini/ boobie blogging and that's how she came by that nickname. By omitting that little detail, she is deliberately and viciously mischaracterizing him as some kind of profane boor. I've met Ace a few times and that is not the case. The woman has mental problems and is a bit of a DQ, if you ask me.

200 Thanks for responding. I'm not overlooking those cases. I'm just saying they're just as valid as a claim like "upper-rate marginal tax increases don't hurt the economy." Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not...maybe it's not determinative?

Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at August 27, 2011 03:45 PM (wqNCb)

Or maybe when you have a "sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not," you just plain don't have enough information.

Now, when the "other side" provides information they claim to explain it, and instead of checking that information your side goes into "who can say" mode, please forgive me if I begin to suspect the motives.

Because either the factors add up to a determination or there are other factors, it's not like reality is attached to a random number generator.

201

Garrett, is what she's saying about Rick Perry true or not?

 

That he's just interested in her tits?

Probably true.

202 166 Wow! di butler, when did you become a muslim?  OMG!  women frolicking in bathing suits and taking pictures, good gracious, what's the world coming too.

Isn't this just what you look for in your conservative women?  Except when they disagree with you.

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 03:36 PM (+tzv7)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Are you always 5 steps behind in every discussion? She accused Ace (and the entire AoS blog) of being sexist pigs and that Ace's first words to her were, "Nice tits" which he says is not exactly what happened. It seems, uhm, hypocritcal to have hawked your hooters then feign outrage when they become a topic of conversation. I DGAS whether she's nude, in a burka, or lights herself on fire. The discussion about Perry has ratcheted up a notch or two since Ace's last post on the matter, she and Robert Spencer are trashing Ace and the commenters like there's no tomorrow. People are angry, and it will most likely end with people taking sides. And no, I'm not a muslim, and no longer beat my spouse, either.

203 >>>Did you switch over to a "maintain" routine instead of the "weight loss" routine? I had to switch over to actually doing the massive amount of work I had not been doing in order to work out so much and be dizzy all the time.

204 Ace - This is one of the best "serious" posts you've done in some time. Kudos!

205

I've met Ace a few times and that is not the case.

Posted by: lauraw at August 27, 2011 03:54 PM (DbybK)

 

Admit it, though - your hump draws attention away from your breasts. 

If Pam Geller had a hump, this would never have happened.

206 also, weight loss and fat loss are totally seperate things.

Excessive dieting and exercise can lead to muscle loss. My nephew runs several marathons a year. Before he got involved he had a fairly average body type. he's about 6'4" and used to weigh about 190+...but now he is probably somewhere in the 160s

Now he is as thin as a rail. His CV system may be pretty good, but he has lost quite a bit of muscle. This past Xmas we were out back doing some bow target shooting. I had mine at about 70#...and he couldn't even come close to drawing it.

He then tried my niece's which was probably about 35-40#. he couldn't even do that w/o help

207 If Pam Geller had a hump, this would never have happened. Posted by: garrett at August 27, 2011 04:00 PM (fugty) And you're JUST the moron to give her a good one!

208 For the cost of a new pantry full of food and a decent treadmill my Marine buddy says I can get a month's worth of good steroids that will put me a year ahead of all the bullshit I'm doing now.

My nuts will just shrink down to the size of a normal man's and I'll become even more of an asshole for a while.

But what do I tell my little boy when I get cancer at 40?

"Uh, Son, Daddy wanted bigger shoulders. I'm sure your new step-dad won't beat you much."

209 #200 - Thank you Lauraw for clarifying that.  Pam just seems to make a detailed case against Rick Perry, and I just want to now if what she's saying is true or not.

210 Re: Diet

Allow me a weak-ass metaphor.

Two cars come from a factory. One is designed with a restrictive intake. One had a restrictive exhaust. You replace the intake on both with a free-flowing model. One car's performance improves, the other's does not.

The human body is immensely more complex than a car, and we have variation based not only on the most variable genome of any species known, but on gut flora, infections and injuries, and minor adaptations (for example in gut flora) over time.

So "OMG THIS IS THE ONLY WAY" is horseshit.

211 I'm not to shocked that Pamela has gone off the reservation... I read some of her posts before, and while she's often OK, at times her positions get a little... extreme. What is surprising to me is Michelle Malkin. She's really shaping up as a shrewish, vindictive bitch when it comes to Perry.

212 _{Pam just seems to make a detailed case against Rick Perry, and I just want to now if what she's saying is true or not.}

_{Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 04:03 PM (+tzv7)}

Pam is wrong. Finding jihad behind every muz is money in the bank for her. She needs to back the fuck up and have a Valu-Rite enema.

When all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a jihad. er somethin'.

213 So "OMG THIS IS THE ONLY WAY" is horseshit.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 27, 2011 04:03 PM (bxiXv)

One of the nutritionist I follow was talking about some recent evidence that where our ancestors were located may have an effect on our nutrition needs and why the same diet can work for some and not others.  It's interesting.

214 I had to switch over to actually doing the massive amount of work I had not been doing in order to work out so much and be dizzy all the time. Posted by: ace

I think it's still the conventional rule of thumb to workout 3 days a week to maintain and four or more to lose.  I do 3 days a week now and am maintaining.  About to switch to four to shed a few pounds.

I fasted a couple of time just to see what I could do.  I've felt that dizzyness.  Part of it is your body eating your brain.  Your brain telling you you're hungry is an act self preservation.  Kind of creepy.

215 Haven't read all the comments, but I've been convinced that the healthiest way for most people is to go low carb the paleo way. The strict paleo diets are too restrictive for many (no dairy or alcohol), so a lot of people are going on somewhat looser systems like the Primal Blueprint. They also advocate regular walking, weekly sprints, and lifting 2-3x/week, preferably barefoot or nearly so. It takes much less time than the conventional workouts, and it works.

I got out of Metabolic syndrome and off BP meds on this system. I stumbled on it in a comment on a low-carb thread on this very site about two years ago, and it works for me.

And yes, the AGW thing is totally what happened with the lipid guys.

216 Well what was going on is that I was almost starving myself and working out more than I ever had in my entire life. Kind of hard core.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 03:38 PM (nj1bB)

But that's the problem, you are not supposed to starve yourself. That's just silly.

217 211 #200 - Thank you Lauraw for clarifying that. Pam just seems to make a detailed case against Rick Perry, and I just want to now if what she's saying is true or not.

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 04:03 PM (+tzv7)

So did you read the detailed response to that case linked by Toby928 above?

218 I think that dietary needs and thus, dietary regimes need to change as you age.

219

Posted by: beedubya at August 27, 2011 04:00 PM (AnTyA)

 

Sure, but a runner loses those mucles because they don't help them run.  So, ignoring them causes atrophy and the subsequent weakness. 

This would happen to me if I was only riding my bikes and not getting any other excercise.

I've found the best way to drop weight quickly is to combine different types of excercise.  

I have never lost weight faster than when I add 2-3 session at the climbing gym to my normal routine of riding and hiking.

also, I don't modify what I eat at all.   But like Ace said, I have the time.  Most people can't clock the hours excercising that I get to. 

220 So did you read the detailed response to that case linked by Toby928 above?

Spencer counter-links at the end of the thread, btw.

221 _{Part of it is your body eating your brain.  Your brain telling you you're hungry is an act self preservation.  Kind of creepy.}

Cool. That means I can blame my present stupidity on my Mom not giving me cereal in the morning when I was young.

Gonna call her and give her a ration of shit.

"I could have been somebody if you hadn't let my brain get eaten, Mom!"

222 I don't think I've read any Robert Spencer before.  He seems a bit irked.  Maybe makes some good points in his defense but a lot of punching down.

223

One of the nutritionist I follow was talking about some recent evidence that where our ancestors were located may have an effect on our nutrition needs and why the same diet can work for some and not others. It's interesting.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 04:06 PM (X6akg)

I'm fairly convinced that my ancestors were incompatible with each other, and I am the result.

224 Dianne, if Geller is willing to make a lie of omission to mischaracterize Ace, what do you suppose is going on in her political blogging?

225

Posted by: beedubya at August 27, 2011 04:00 PM (AnTyA)

Yes, that excess running lowers the immune system too. And all you can do is run. You can't do any other  functional things well.

226 Haven't read all the comments, but I've been convinced that the healthiest way for most people is to go low carb the paleo way. The strict paleo diets are too restrictive for many (no dairy or alcohol), so a lot of people are going on somewhat looser systems like the Primal Blueprint.

My husband is a Paleo guy...although he will not give up his beer.  He actually went on it to help control his Crohn's and it has helped.  Does a lot of rowing and recently started MMA.  He's in excellent shape at 56.  I hate him.

227 I like Robert Spencer, but his loyalty to Pam G. Is misplaced.

228 Ace of Spades is one of those juvenile, leering fratboy blogs

I have never been prouder in my life.

229 As expected everyone here is clueless about the topic and nutrition and exercise as a whole.  The government and all the supposed experts likewise.  New diets and best selling diet books have been around forever and forever will be because none work and they're all wrong and the "experts" obvioulsy aren't.  Hell even that repulsive fat pig of a man Dr. Phil had a best selling diet book for chrissakes.  What a joke and what a bunch of book buying idiots.  Don't you think SOMEBODY would have come up with THE diet by now?  Seriously, shouldn't the diet book business have terminally ended decades ago?  Why is there always another book?  I have long had the answer and it is neither complicated, hard or stressful.  Maybe for those who live a life of total self-idulging excess as it relates to food but for anyone who realizes that sel-indulgence of any kind is a complete FAIL, living with the proper diet will be a breeze.

230 Posted by: VinylMan

Thanks for contributing, well, nothing to the discussion.

231 That's just it.  I wasn't there in either instance, so I don't know who to believe.

I was just trying to find out whether PG's assertions about Perry were a lie or not.  So far, no one here has given any other explanation to counter what PG has written about Perry.

Has anyone here read the Atlas post that could answer that question?

232

I'm fairly convinced that my ancestors were incompatible with each other, and I am the result.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 27, 2011 04:10 PM (bxiXv)

boom-tish

233

I don't think that muscle building alone (as in solely doing CrossFit, no matter what the "research" says) is healthy.

 

Posted by: KnoweyBecauseI'mSmarterThanYou at August 27, 2011 03:41 PM (SQvIY)

actually, CrossFit isn't just anout muscle building. I don't go to Crossfit gyms because it's a little intense for me, but I've done some of their online Workouts of the Day. It's about doing a great variety of things, except for chronic aerobic. Sprints, all kinds of resistance, natural movements, etc.

234 Ace, I recommend reading Taubes' first book, Good Calories Bad Calories.  It has a lot more information on why the dietary guidelines changed to the carb-heavy in the 50s.  It ties in with your basic AGW thesis in another way too -- cargo cult theory.  In the 50s doctors were getting all bent out of shape about blood cholesterol *because they could finally measure it*, just like AGW with carbon.  They noticed a trend in people who had or developed heart disease, and high blood cholesterol was an indicator.  Where they screwed up is in assuming *eating* high cholesterol foods created high *blood* cholesterol.  Same thing with fat, they assumed if you eat it fat gets stored immediately as fat.  They really did, no joke, decide it was more important to tell the general public to avoid fat and cholesterol purely for heart health.  The studies that showed that people ingesting no food cholesterol still could have high blood cholesterol (like vegans) were pointedly ignored.  So, not so much the high-carb people were making money (that was the accusation they made against the low-carb doctors though!) but that the accepted wisdom was heart disease was more important.

The only thing that has worked for me for weight loss is low carb.  I went through medically supervised weight loss programs at 1600 calories a day with daily hard exercise too and didn't lose weight, so I get a bit tired of the calories in=calories out crowd.  I was a bit grouchy the first two weeks of cutting carbs but now I find I physically can't eat much carb even on my "no rules" day.  It's weird.

235 I fasted a couple of time just to see what I could do.  I've felt that dizzyness.  Part of it is your body eating your brain.  Your brain telling you you're hungry is an act self preservation.  Kind of creepy.

Posted by: Dang at August 27, 2011 04:06 PM (TXKVh)

There have been studies done that show those that were exposed to extreme starvation for extended periods, like survivors of concentration camps, had little if any damage to their brains or their hearts..

...the rest of their bodies were fucked though

236 I fasted a couple of time just to see what I could do.  I've felt that dizzyness.  Part of it is your body eating your brain.  Your brain telling you you're hungry is an act self preservation.  Kind of creepy.

Nah, your body doesn't eat your brain, it is consuming protein, dietary or body. The dizziness is more likely that you are not getting enough glucose to your brain, which is what carbs help with.

Really folks, just eat balanced meals, get some exercise, and some vitamin supplements and you are good to go. No need to starve yourselves or whatnot, that shit may appear to help in the short run, but it's not healthy and sure as hell can't be maintained for the rest of your life.

237 juvenile, leering fratboy

I'll get giant titties for thousands of dollars and wear my tops cut down to my navel, but don't you DARE leer at me!

238 232 As expected everyone here is clueless about the topic and nutrition and exercise as a whole.

Posted by: VinylMan at August 27, 2011 04:17 PM (qRxfv)

Ladies an gentlemen, the worthless, self-righteous ass has arrived!

239 Losing weight - the SECRET -

Get your ass outside and walk for at least 1/2 hour a day. Limit portions at meals.  If you must snack between meals, eat air popped popcorn, which is only about 30 calories for 2 cups, and it fills you up.  Drink lots of water, because it makes you feel fuller and gives your body stuff it wants.

Find something you enjoy doing and do it.

240

Ladies an gentlemen, the worthless, self-righteous ass has arrived!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 27, 2011 04:25 PM (bxiXv)

I think his wife is here too

241 As expected everyone here is clueless about the topic and nutrition and exercise as a whole.

Posted by: VinylMan at August 27, 2011 04:17 PM (qRxfv)

I don't know about anyone else, but this comment has inspired me to get my shit together and change my life for the better.

242 Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 04:24 PM (LD21B)

Just to clarify, if you do not get enough glucose via carbs to feed your brain, your body will start consuming protein to meet that need. If you are not consuming large amounts of protein, it will consume body protein.

This is where the majority of the weight loss comes from in most of these so called diets. In the first couple of weeks, you will shed pounds like crazy, and think, "oh this is so great, I'm losing weight!" But after that, you will experience the consequences of not feeding yourself properly.

243 Sex burns lots of calories.

If the partner is trying to get away it burns even more.

244

As expected everyone here is clueless about the topic and nutrition and exercise as a whole.

 

He's right.  It's all BULLSHIT!

245  If you are not consuming large amounts of dietary protein, it will consume body protein.

Posted by: KG at August 27, 2011 04:28 PM (LD21B)

Gah. Fixed.

246 So, you may not want to tie that goat down before you start your jihad workout.

247

Sex burns lots of calories.

Not as much as tucking eachother in at night.

248 Get your ass outside and walk for at least 1/2 hour a day. Limit portions at meals.

That's what I'm doing.  A daily brisk walk and refusing to gorge myself.  So far this year, down 18-22lbs.  BTW, does everyone's weight fluctuate like mine does?  I vary at least 5 pounds over the course of the week.

249
The Paleo guys are pushing the concept of Intermittent Fasting, which can be just as simple as skipping breakfast or refraining to eat when you're not hungry. They say regular mealtimes are overrated, and not how our hunter gatherer ancestors lived. It has a good effect on blood sugar and fat loss.

250 Not as much as tucking each other in at night.

Or getting them into the van.

251 232. Don't you think SOMEBODY would have come up with THE diet by now? Seriously, shouldn't the diet book business have terminally ended decades ago? 

Posted by: VinylMan at August 27, 2011 04:17 PM (qRxfv)

 

When I studied nutrition as part of an Exercise Physiology degree program back in the mid-80's, nutrition (to me) seemed as developed a science as alchemy and voodoo magic.  It's very, very difficult to experiment with nutrition, because (usually) the only way to see how something like, say, Vitamin E works is to completely deprive a large group of humans of that one substance for long periods of time and study the effects.  Scientists can get some information from studying countries where people are starving, but those folks are always missing more than just one essential substance in their diet, and that throws a monkey wrench in everything.  I think, at this point, there's enough useful information out there on food and exercise so that folks can figure out how to live a healthy life without resorting to some draconian diet.  But, this is America, and many folks are attracted to the 'easy way out', which might explain the popularity of diet fads.  There is no easy way out.     

252 I vary at least 5 pounds over the course of the week.

Posted by: toby928™ leering juvenile at August 27, 2011 04:31 PM (GTbGH)

Do you weigh yourself at the same time each day?

253 I've been extreamly low carb for years; lost a bunch of weight and feel great. Most of  the low carb and paleo blogs I read (along with their commenters) seem to be of the libertarian persuasion. My theory is that to be low carb/high fat you pretty much have to ignore authority figures and "common" knowledge which is habit  forming.

254

One of the nutritionist I follow was talking about some recent evidence that where our ancestors were located may have an effect on our nutrition needs and why the same diet can work for some and not others. It's interesting.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 04:06 PM (X6akg)

I've thought that for years, Tami.  Eat what your ancestors ate, that you are probably programmed to thrive on.  Makes total sense to me.  I think that's why I can eat the way I do and still be healthy, they didn't have vegetables and fruits in England-Ireland-Scotland.  I don't do haggis or that disgusting blood sausage, though. 

255 Do you weigh yourself at the same time each day?

Yep, after coffee and a smoke in the morning.

256 Has anyone here read the Atlas post that could answer that question?

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 04:20 PM (+tzv7)

I've read the Atlas post, Ace's and Spencers.

The problem with Geller's assertions about *PERRY* is that it's all circumstantial - who he's associated with, what second- or third-parties have written or done.

Nobody asked *Perry* what he thought. It's mental masturbation.

Unfortunately, when bloggers disagree, everybody has to go STRAIGHT to eleven, and now we're in another Goddamn pointless blog war, hopefully it won't screw everybody up severely like Goldstein v. Patterico or Chuckie v. Everybody did.

The Stein/Ace axis has a different understanding of what the relevant facts are and what they *mean* with regard to a Perry Presidency than the Spencer/Geller axis does. Instead of hashing out what those differences are and trying to delineate what the *actual* relevant facts are, we've now missed two such opportunities in favor of name-calling. And when I say "we" I do mean both sides, it looks Geller-heavy because we've had a point-counter-response so far, so they basically just have more "air time."

I also think the Stein/Ace axis are responding not only to what they see as a distortion of the evidence, but to the common "perfect as enemy of the good" thing that always goes on in the conservosphere.

257 I vary at least 5 pounds over the course of the week.

Posted by: toby928™ leering juvenile at August 27, 2011 04:31 PM (GTbGH)

Yeah. I'm up and down like the Assyrian Empire.

I've stopped looking every week.

Right now I think I'm replacing fat with muscle so my weight is all over the place from creatine water weight bloat.

258 Right now I think I'm replacing fat with muscle

Preparing for the coming troubles.

259 I just wanted to get weighed!

260

Do you weigh yourself at the same time each day?

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2011 04:32 PM (X6akg)

I shouldn't have phrased my question that way because I don't think we should weigh ourselves every day.  Or every week for that matter.  I just meant, when you do weigh yourself, do you do it at the same time of day?

261 Good summation, Merovign.  I'm not seeing the endgame here either.  Does Geller think that Perry will not prosecute the war against AQ and it's ilk as well as someone else?  If so, who?

262 I also think Geller's dwelling on a supposed rudeness at a conference years ago, even if it went down as she described (which IIRC it was not so described at the time), makes her look like a grugde-keeping harridan rather than someone concerned with the fact.

There is obvious history between Ace and Geller and that's coloring all this unproductively, and Spencer's joining in with his whole "frat boy, porn and beer" thing as well as IDIOTICALLY conflating AoSHQ with leftists is just increasing the personalization and reducing the chance of anything useful coming out of the discussion.

263 Speaking of global warming know, I shouldn't have to mention this since the MFing BM will report on this extensively (/sarc)

..but the really, really smart sciecytists at the CERN project have just kicked the Gorebull warmening hysterics squarely in the nards.

Shocker...it's the sun that causes global warmening of da Earf...not us

264

I haven't been on a scale since a week after my back surgery 6 years ago.

It isn't about weight, it's about fitness.

265 I weigh every day, unless I forget, at the same time.  I'm not one of those people who is either encourage or discourage by the daily variation.  I just think it's interesting.

266 Preparing for the coming troubles.

Posted by: toby928™ leering juvenile at August 27, 2011 04:36 PM (GTbGH)

Blazes of Glory require more energy and fitness than they show on TV.

John McClane never had to stop and say "Fuck. Ow. I got a stitch in my side. Hold up. Aw. Shit. Fuck. Ow. Time out."

267 Right now I think I'm replacing fat with muscle You mean you're fapping again, sifty?

268 _{You mean you're fapping again, sifty?}

_{Posted by: CoolCzech at August 27, 2011 04:40 PM (niZvt)}

Faptain America reporting for duty!

269 I've been doing Faigin's "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" diet, which alternates high protein with high carb. I do two/three full days of low-carb/high protein followed by a third/fourth day of very low-carb with my last meal being high-carb/low protein. You can get to where you do the high carb every other day. He has an exercise book as well, but I didn't do that initially. I lost about 30# just carb counting. You're also supposed to watch your fat but I haven't. He's got a nice hierarchy set up where he lays out the five main points in order of importance, so you can do the carb control, and when you've got that worked out, you can do the multiple meals (no more than three hours without eating), and the fat control, etc. It's a very wonky book, though: More footnotes to scientific studies than actual content, it seems like. The theory is that protein spikes your glucagon while carbs spike your insulin, and when you indulge in both, you get counter-acting hormonal responses. Interesting stuff. Last year I lost about 30 pounds following the Mayo clinic's recommendations for calorie restrictions. That worked but it was kind of a pain in the ass. I was hungry, and I had to be careful with everything I ate, etc. (And it of course came back when I stopped.) I'm not hungry on this diet. My energy is way better--I don't fall asleep after lunch. If I do get low energy, even with eating regularly, I can have a high-carb meal (which supposedly restocks glycogen). Interestingly enough, Faigin says ketosis is neither here-nor-there with regard to fat-burning, at least as measured by those little pee sticks. All they show is incomplete breaking down of fat. I'm tempted to try a high-carb diet just to see if it would work, but hormonally it doesn't make a lot of sense.

270 Get your TSH level checked. You could have Graves or hypothyroidism.

271 Blazes of Glory require more energy and fitness than they show on TV.

Word.  I do have to thank the SCOAMF for making me get back in shape.  I used to think that preparedness meant maintaing 6lbs of strength in my finger and clear lanes of fire but the potential mad-max-ness of the future reminded me that sometimes its a 10 mile march followed by a knife fight.

272 264 Good summation, Merovign. I'm not seeing the endgame here either. Does Geller think that Perry will not prosecute the war against AQ and it's ilk as well as someone else? If so, who?

Posted by: toby928™ leering juvenile at August 27, 2011 04:37 PM (GTbGH)

Honestly I think it's a case of single-issue cancer. I ain't saying that Geller doesn't have a point, I'm just saying that while it's annoying as hell, the people who say you have to work together to get things done *ALSO* have a point.

People who spend years researching a subject tend to forget that they may still have to *CONVINCE* others of the rightness of their cause, and the support of the facts, rather than just expecting everyone to go along because you and your circle of friends are convinced.

I'm actually further down the road of "Islam is practically unreformable and an existential threat" than Ace is, but I don't actually see any kind of workable *solution* to that problem coming from the anti-Islamosphere - there is a grossly impractical "deport everyone" movement but it doesn't have any kind of coherent platform.

273 Remember when we were told to substitute (corn based) margarine for butter? I do. It was back in the late 60's. Anyone else think this was one big ad campaign that had more to do about selling corn than improving health?

Anyone remember when the soda makers started substituting corn syrup in place of sugarcane sugar? I do.

I wonder what's the real reason behind the atkins/gluten free push? Sounds like wheat is taking in the shorts in favor of some other crop. Wonder what crop that could be. Iowa I am looking at you.

274 Well, wheat and beef to be more accurate. The powers to be would like us to eat anything, as long as it's derived from corn.

275 I wonder what's the real reason behind the atkins/gluten free push? Sounds like wheat is taking in the shorts in favor of some other crop. Wonder what crop that could be. Iowa I am looking at you.

Posted by: Rooster at August 27, 2011 04:43 PM (I6KKl)

Ah yes, food politics. FDA, anyone?

276 _{The powers to be would like us to eat anything, as long as it's derived from corn.}

Corn requires more land than most people own in order to feed a family. Therefore you have to buy it from those who have it.

Control their food and transportation and you have a nation of slave cattle.

277 I wonder what's the real reason behind the atkins/gluten free push? Sounds like wheat is taking in the shorts in favor of some other crop. Wonder what crop that could be. Iowa I am looking at you.

Posted by: Rooster at August 27, 2011 04:43 PM (I6KKl)

The "gluten free" push is because of two reasons: the more important is that they're more accurately diagnosing people with gluten intolerance (primarily Celiac Disease). That' a verifiable, real, straight-up autoimmune intolerance triggered by a protein (gliadin) in the wheat family of grains.

The second reason is a lot of people are seeing what they believe to be benefits from such a diet, without being diagnosed. Some of them will have the condition, others not.

It's not a Corn Industry Conspiracy to get you. It's also not particularly related to Atkins.

Now, I'm not saying the Corn Industry *isn't* out to get you, I'm just saying that's not why there's now a "gluten free" section at your grocery store.

278 PS- Stress causes a lot of bad triggers. Some auto-immune diseases are thought to be aggravated by high stress. So try not to argue with....brick walls.

279 So try not to argue with....brick walls.

RINO!

280

I don't actually see any kind of workable *solution*

I see what you did there.

 

281 I'm curious how many morons threw a few potatoes or peanuts into there gardens this year, just for the practice.

282 or their

either or

283 I have been reading about this cortisol hormone stuff.

The bodybuilding industry is harping on it now. Some of them are advocating up to 5000mg of Vitamin C to combat it.

Bodybuilding websites and books are fucking bizarro-world. They all talk around the big gorilla in the corner.

284 128 #103 - I didn't know her then.  Was she in fact a weather girl that showed her tits, or what was the deal?  You're already trashing her character in your innuendos, so any further info wouldn't make much difference. Just make sure you can back it up.

Posted by: Dianne at August 27, 2011 03:15 PM (+tzv7)

I'm just reading through the comments but I've got to say, Good God are you fucking stupid.  I mean seriously.  You seem incapable of reading basic sentences that are probably at a comprehension level that even 4th graders can follow.

285

Now, I'm not saying the Corn Industry *isn't* out to get you, I'm just saying that's not why there's now a "gluten free" section at your grocery store.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 27, 2011 04:49 PM (bxiXv)

 

Good post.  I have an ex-gf who's daughter has Celiac.  I never heard of it until I met her.  It's a very nasty condition which makes life a pure screaming hell if the wrong foods are consumed.  I'm glad the folks who suffer from it now have another path to take. 

286 The other reason, of course, that diet should not be controlled by government is that people are fucking stupid.

Demonstrated by the fact that any three people on the topic will have five different opinions on the subject, violently opposed to each other.

287 I can report that the yield of russet, golden, and red potatoes was very good this year in Burbank, Ca.

We could easily grow enough in our backyard to last a year. Crop rotation would be a bitch the second year, but it's doable.

288

Except that on the strict Atkins Diet you don't start burning fat cells but mostly muscle cells.

A balanced diet with good carbs and a good excercise regimen burns fat cells, but most people don't see much weightloss, because you gain muscle, which is heavier than fatweight

The Zone has good carbs-------in fact a few too many vegetables. Not a huge amt of fruit, no grain really and no fucking sugar.

I have added 1/2 of a small square of very dark chocolate because it's supposed to help your workout and chemicals but it makes me sleepy.  I eat it at night.

I swear half the ailments could be cured by going no carb (not vegs but grain/sugar). All the aches and pains go away, you sleep at night like tired 4 year old, no headaches, no indigestion, etc.

I am meaner though because I have more energy to be mean.

289 Gluten-free is also being pushed by the Autism Industry now that their vaccine myth and that scrunt Jenny MacCarthy were exposed.

290 Potatoes are the New World's gift to the poor.

291

Good post. I have an ex-gf who's daughter has Celiac. I never heard of it until I met her. It's a very nasty condition which makes life a pure screaming hell if the wrong foods are consumed. I'm glad the folks who suffer from it now have another path to take.

Posted by: joejm65 at August 27, 2011 04:54 PM (UZuc4)

The most important thing is finding out why you're sick all the damned time. I didn't know until I was 35.

For whatever reason for me, giving up certain foods wasn't that hard, the limitation is mainly social (you can't eat at other people's houses most of the time, you can't eat at most restaurants, you have to keep explaining it).

Some people can't give up and "cheat." eventually it will kill you, but you may have a "normal" lifespan, just a miserable one. The usual endpoint is intestinal cancer or sepsis from a disintegrating small intestine. But the human body is remarkably durable, some people live with pain for decades.

292 My two cents worth. In 2000 I decided that I wasn't going t make it much longer at my current size. I went on the strict Atkins diet. In one year I lost105 lbs. My blood pressure went down and I felt wonderful. of all the diets I've ever done it is the easiest because you can eat. You just can't have carbs which is hard. Now I have put about 40 lbs back because I haven't been following it. I still try to keep carbs down.

293 when I started on Atkins I dropped 40 or 50 pounds in three months and felt terrific.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2011 03:33 PM (nj1bB)

Henceforth you shall be known as Big Ace

294 276 Remember when we were told to substitute (corn based) margarine for butter? I do. It was back in the late 60's.

Posted by: Rooster at August 27, 2011 04:43 PM (I6KKl)

Yes, and now it looks as if we would've been way better sticking to tastier less processed fats like lard, tallow, butter, coconut oil and palm oil, instead of letting the fat nazis (government and lobbyists) switch us onto trans fats and industrial oils from corn and soy. The industrial oils seem to be making cancer more likely, while the  less processed sat fats lower triglycerides and do other good things.

295

I am meaner though because I have more energy to be mean.

Posted by: dagny at August 27, 2011 04:58 PM (p3q8Q)

How you doin'?

296 The closer you can eat to the original dead animal or field the healthier you'll be.

Every level of processing seems to add problems.

297 Won't touch anything but unrefined canola oil and olive oil.

298 As close to paleo as I get, it all sort of sets off my BS detectors. Like, I think it makes sense that (as some of you have suggested) your ancestral makeup could have an influence on what your body best functions on. There's a book called "Eat Right For Your Type" (you can Google it to find the guy's website, too) which posits that blood type is the indicator that tells all. But it has stuff like, for type B, you should eat more venison and wean off chicken. I mean, after explaining the history and evolution, it says "ergo eat no chicken". I dunno. Again, the thing about the Faigin book is that it's rife with footnotes. Probably makes it completely inaccessible to most, but I think (for me) it says "OK, this is how he came to this conclusion. He might be wrong but at least he's not completely pulling it out of his ass." An abundance of celebrity "authorities" suggests to me that the basics really aren't agreed upon.

299

I am meaner though because I have more energy to be mean.

Posted by: dagny at August 27, 2011 04:58 PM (p3q8Q)

How you doin'?

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at August 27, 2011 05:07 PM (UqKQV)

Fucking cranky. Being healthy does absolutely NOTHING for my personality (which isn't all that pleasant (unless I'm pretending) anyway). Apparently I can forgive peoples' stupidity easier after a couple of beers, some jalapeno poppers and a s'more.

(The jalapeno popper isn't all that far off the zone--it'll kill your fat intake for the day but isn't a grain).

300 Fact: seven and a half months ago I weighed just south of 250 pounds.

Fact: I was hospitalized with hypertensive urgency brought on by pre-Type II diabetes.

Fact: I was put on a low-carb diet.

Fact: I lost over fifty pounds in the ensuing four months.

Not saying anything else.  I'm just saying.

301 Fascinating discussion. I lost 70 pounds on Atkins and have kept it off by continuing to follow low-carb for the last five years. (And no, it wasn't all water weight.) I walk about a mile a day, but that's it for exercise. So far I haven't noticed any erratic behavior, nor have any body parts dropped off. That's just an "n" of one, but you can toss it into your database.

302 I don't do Atkins but have been doing a variant, might be South Beach, that is fairly simple: lots of protein, lots of vegetables, and no restrictions on fat. I do not eat high glycemic foods like: white bread, white rice, pasta, potatoes, refined grains, and most sugars (refined sugar, fruit, etc.). Legumes are good, I eat a fair amount of nuts, all varieties. I have omelette du fromage almost every morning for break fast. I drink red wine in moderation. Been doing this for almost 10 years. My weight is stable, my BMI is 22, my cholesterol is low, my BP is low, my resting heart rate is low (I love salt too), oxygenation of my blood is high, etc, etc. I don't get heartburn. I don't have gout. The only downside is that the hair on my head is falling out and transplanting into my ears.

303 It's too fucking hot to go outside, so I'm about to do a set of Tabata squats. Anyone wanna watch?

304 I didn't read the windy post or the 305 plus comments But as a 45, 6'1" year old I did go from 268, size 44 inch waist to 185 and a a 36" waist on the Atkins. So if the article or comments are negative its flawed.

305 I don't know, Stace, do we?

306 movieqigue, eh, prolly not. I'm done anyway. Nothing fell out or anything so that's good.

307

Why would I expect a bunch of clueless, ignorant people as it pertains to nutrition and being healthy to respond to me in any other way than some of you ignorant posters did?  Congratulations on clearly outing yourselves as a shining example of that membership.  I'm sure you're still enjoying your heart-healthy, cholesterol lowering cheerios breakfast each morning.

To the couple other posters who can read and actually have a clue, congratulations on distancing yourselves from the other clowns representing 95% of the population.  All of whom who are overweight, unhealthy walking time bombs keeping the prescription drug companies and health facilities busy.

308 "dizziness is more likely that you are not getting enough glucose to your brain, which is what carbs help with."

I dunno, I lost 60 lbs doing low fat and exercise, losing 2 lbs a month over several years, but I got the dizziness too.  Going low fat means more carbs...I wasn't starving myself, but at church I couldn't stand or even kneel on the kneelers for long, because I'd feel weak and faint.  I was like an old lady, it was embarrassing.    I could ride a bike for hours though, go figure.

309 Another well done book that addressed low carb lifestyle is "Sugar Nation" by Jeff OConnell. The author is a  healthy young guy who was an executive writer at Mens Health and Muscle and Fitness. He is blindsided by diagnosis of type 2 diabetes  and tries to piece together the causes, treatments and politics of the disease. Really, really interesting. 

310 Posted by: VinylMan at August 27, 2011 06:00 PM (qRxfv)

Modern medicine has come a long way in the development of surgical techniques for removing that stick from your ass.  You should consult your physician.

311

_{Why would I expect a bunch of clueless, ignorant people as it pertains to nutrition and being healthy to respond to me in any other way than some of you ignorant posters did?  Congratulations on clearly outing yourselves as a shining example of that membership.  I'm sure you're still enjoying your heart-healthy, cholesterol lowering cheerios breakfast each morning.}

_{To the couple other posters who can read and actually have a clue, congratulations on distancing yourselves from the other clowns representing 95% of the population.  All of whom who are overweight, unhealthy walking time bombs keeping the prescription drug companies and health facilities busy.}

_{Posted by: VinylMan at August 27, 2011 06:00 PM (qRxfv)}

Allow me to retort:

Eat Shit, you sanctimonious ponce.

312 Apparently vinylbag hasn't found the cure for an ugly soul and a fucked up attitude in his path toward diet perfection.

Try getting a blowjob where you can see the person's face sometime vinylman. It might change your life.

313 Chiming in.  I'm a tad under 5'8".  A few years ago I hit 165# even though I worked out occasionally.  Since then, I've eliminated milk, cereal, most pasta and rice (any kind, although I'll use a little bit of brown rice if I'm making a casserole), sodas (except the kind that goes in a proper mixed drink; i.e., soda water), most red meat (occasionally, you know), thick sauces, etc.  Breakfast is usually what people call dinner -- quinoa with steamed veggies and shrimp, or something with chicken or salmon, always with veggies, that kind of thing.  I do have a weakness for snacking on nuts and dried fruit (no added sugar) at work so that's a vice.  I'm now just under 150# and I have good muscle tone -- I can flex my pecs individually.  On the occasional weekend when I eat THC oil, I eat a lot of frozen fruit -- mangoes, pineapple, berries, cherries....  Mmmmm.  I also eat a lot of hummus - awesome for dipping carrots into, for instance, or as a sauce.

Last night at the S.F. Hash House Harriers 1500th run, a girl bet me a pad thai that she was older than me.  She was 32 and I turn 44 in October.  That pad Thai was the bomb.

314 Yeah I've been on the Paleo/Caverman diet, which is comparable to Atkins on the fat/carb score, for over a year. I lost 30 lbs without trying, it just pissed away in a few months. I felt constant energy.

If I was strict about the diet I'd back to my 20 year-old weight. As it is, because I cheat on sugar things, I'm at my 25 year-old weight. Anyone who doesn't think this works, or isn't easy to keep, they are just blabbing nonsense.

But apart from that, yes it's true, these so-called nutritionists are more like food-stylists. They are happy to flip opinions about diet: low-fat, low-carb, low-neuron, whatever. It makes it more interesting for them and they can sell the newest diet faith to clients for cash. My sister is one of them.

315 Am I the only one who thinks VinylMan weighs over 350 pounds?

316 Ace,

Welcome aboard. Better late than diabetic.

One word of advice it it's not already been posted: do a search for Enig and Fallon. These ladies are a bit...off in a few minor areas but when it comes to the history of how the dietary 180 happened in the '60s (well before that, actually) they document it VERY well. It's the stuff Taubes et al only touch on.

And a repeated urging for you to see FATHEAD.

Good luck. Go ribeye! (hold the tater)

317 I wonder how many folks know how "glycemic indices" are determined.  I didn't.  I knew how calories were determined and other nutritional values, but not the GI.

Well, according to what I've found thus far it's based on the results from feeding ten people foods and measuring the effects of those foods on their blood sugar.  That's right.  The system that we have all been saying is highly individualized -- our bodies -- is what is used to assign GI values.  I confess, I am stunned that such an obviously flawed methodology is what folks rely on. 

'Not quite the same as an analytical chemistry experiment using a bomb calorimeter, is it? 

318
I am not clear if I totally understand the full thought pattern behind this.

319 I thought the reason we were called morons was because we wouldn't go along with 'conventional wisdom' just cause some idiot on the tube said so. I had no idea it was because half the morons on this particular thread HAVE NEVER READ ONE WORD ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY THE LATE DR. ATKINS HIMSELF.

'The man who does not read is no better off than the man who cannot read'

Having read more than one non fiction book since leaving screw-well, I can report that I am one of those rare 'according to nimrods' individuals that is a success story from the Atkins diet.

My only complaint is the actual diet amounts to eating the most expensive food in the grocery store. Steak is not cheap my friends.

320 I am a long time lurker here at Ace, and I'm also a member of a low carb forum. Just thought I'd alert you folks to the fact that this post has been linked there. And there are a lot of angry lib sorts who post in that forums, so expect an influx of ... behavior. Lotta these people are your typical libtards. I guess losing weight can't really change your personality. I'm a conservative low-carber, and am always amazed that a lot of these people STILL want a lot of government intervention in all sorts of areas, including diet, even though the "advice" we have gotten from gubmint thus far about diet has been pretty much wrong. I don't even really post there anymore because I don't enjoy the stress, pretty much just read the site for ideas on how to make the lifestyle work. So, you know, expect a lot of "you suck!", "the science of glowbull warming is settled, you nazi teabagger!!!", and other intellectual engagement to your question. Good luck.

321

When I read Good Calories Bad Calories, I thought the same thing.  You could just replace "fat" with "global warming" and all the same players are there.  I eat Paleo and have never felt better, performed better, had better physicals, had less sleepy afternoons, and the list goes on.  It has taken my Dr. three years to give it any credit in my case.  He still thinks I must be doing something else.  I swear I could live on bacon and salad and be a happy gal. 

It may not be for everyone, but it makes me cringe as I hear "whole grains" is the way to go.  Taubes was on Dr. Oz and Ozzie just made fun of him.  Sad really.  If you want to see what the lifestyle brings check out crossfitgames.com and watch some of the videos.  Most of these athletes eat Paleo or a variant of it (not Atkins) and are not slovenly, dehydrated individuals!

It makes you wonder why we send rice to famished populations and can't understand why they don't thrive...  Maybe someone wants them not to.  A mentally and physically weakend population is more easily controlled?

322 Diets like Atkins work not because they limit carbs, but because they limit simple carbs and sugars.

Simple carbs of the sort found in processed grains cause your insulin levels to spike.  This causes your body to store fat.  Sugar does the very same thing.

Complex carbs that your body has to work harder to break down do not cause the levels to spike in this way, and therefore do not lead to the storing of fat.

Eat a balanced diet and avoid simple carbs and sugars.  Keep track of your caloric intake.  Make sure you are active enough that you are not taking in more calories that you're expending. 

323

everyone must find their own way, and simply put the take home is eliminate crappy carbs increase good fats for better health.

hey - they let anybody post here!