1 Still not sold on Brother Romney.

2 Meanwhile....Mitt just chugs along above it all.

Oooh.  A train.

3 In many ways, I think the presidential selection process has ceased to be a 1-2 year affair, and now extends over two complete cycles.  I don't think BO ever thought he would actually win in '08.

Yay.

4 Bachmann did help herself, at least in the parts I saw.  Romney was solid.  I still think if Perry jumps in he takes the lead and that with both Bachmann and Perry in, Palin would definitely not enter the race.  In that scenario, it becomes Perry v Bachmann with Perry prevailing thanks to all of us evil RINOs.  I would probably pair Perry up with Allen West, if he's available, or possible John Bolton.  I think they'd beat the ever livin' crap out of President Watchthisdrive and his jester. 

5 Can I please just have the ballot where there's an opponent of BHO listed and I can mark that spot, already

Why do you want to take the fun out of all the purity threads??

Killjoy.

6

ABO - Anybody But Obama!

7 Rick Perry will destroy Romney. And then Obama.

8 Iowa will be Mittens graveyard

9

As things stand now with how the Repubs are acting I am thinking about voting straight ticket dem just to get this shit over with.

10
But Intrade has Obama up by 20%!!!!!!!!!!

_{ooooo......nice shiny poll thread}

11 Debate-related: I saw a very annoying editorial in WaPo today about the GOP field hyperventilating over sharia law.  The editorial was framed to praise Romney for his answer in the debate about loyalty oaths, contrasting it with the rest of the field.  However, they only provided specifics about Cain and Newt, both of whom (purportedly) supported additional loyalty oaths for Muslims during the debate. 

What did the others, particularly Pawlenty and Bachmann, say about sharia law and loyalty oaths during the debate? 

12 One of the few pleasures in the last election cycle was see Mitt outspend all others combined and then come in distant second. Oh how I looked forward to the Hugh Hewitt post titled "Romney Rising." Now matter how embarrassing the defeat, Hugh would provide sunshine and roses. Hoping for a repeat.

13 When the media starts touting what a great job Bachman did (I did not watch it), I am tempted to assume that she is their designated stalking-horse.  The MSM is not going to boost anyone they perceive as a threat to beat Obama.

14

It's gotta be the hair.

15 8 Rick Perry will destroy Romney. And then Obama.
Did you see his speech at the Heritage Foundation?   As things stand now with how the Repubs are acting I am thinking about voting straight ticket dem just to get this shit over with.

Let's leave the "in the end, there will be only chaos" thing to me, please?   First see if we can fix the ship before we completely scuttle it.

16

Meanwhile....Mitt just chugs along above it all.

Just like Howard Dean did back in '04.

17 Here's the annoying WaPo thing I referenced.  I particularly enjoy the use of the term "crackpot" in the headline.

18

This is what weÂ’re up against (besides the idiot Republicans who are screwing us too).

Seeing shit that isnÂ’t there.  Watch this dramatic demonstration of leftist insanity get legs in Ministry of Propaganda MFM.  These idiots canÂ’t force themselves to do the tiniest bit of critical thinking to see how this will not work in a FREE society.  Hell, it has never even worked in a totalitarian society for very long and it only worked as long as they were exterminating desenters.  What idiots.  They wonÂ’t even ask themselves the obvious questions about why this works in the military.  The stupid fuckers should be clamoring to join!  Why arenÂ’t they?  Jeebus H. Fucking Cripes these fuckers are stupid.

You kind of have to go back to the NYT piece to see the original circus of insanity.

19
Can I please just have the ballot where there's an opponent of BHO listed and I can mark that spot, already?
Posted by: Papa Editor at June 16, 2011 11:33 AM

Hahaha! But the squishes at least mean to provide you one with nice hair.

20 8 Rick Perry will destroy Romney. And then Obama.
///
Wheel in the sky keeps on turning.

21 There - are you happy now?!

What's wrong with Bachmann?

22 OH NA NA, WHAT'S MY NAME

23 Get Huntsmann and Giuliani into the primaries and Mildred Romney is history. Let the moderate vote be splitteth! 

24 Re: the debate and being impressed/surprised. It pained me that I was most impressed with kooks Paul and Gingrich. Bachman and the rest were sort of bland. But at least Bachman is getting some respect from hate filled lefties now.

25 dmmit...forgot my Mars Blackmon sock...

26

Here's a glimpse of our future should we remain on course:

Greek Scare Spills Into U.S.

Greece's PM George Papandreou 'to fight on'

27 There needs to be a strong front-runner soon, so the garbage could be old news by the time the voting starts.

28 I'm surprised to see Romney doing so well with self-identified tea party voters.

He isn't. This is some slight of hand from Rassmusen. Keep in mind that he is part of the Republican hierarchy. Romney got a huge bounce from Huck dropping out. The Huck fans are not tea party people. They are religious liberals.

The internals of the PPP poll in SC described this very well. He got the Huck voters but his negatives are increasing even faster than everybody elses. They said then that Bachmann has the momentum so expect to see her increasing more and Romney falling.

29 >>Rick Perry will destroy Romney. Perry has had the advantage of not being in the ring and therefore not being covered very heavily. That will change if and when he announces. He might actually get asked a couple questions like "You've been governor of Texas for a decade. How did you allow your state to fall into a $27 billion dollar budget crisis this year?". That might leave a mark.

30

This is what weÂ’re up against

That is some weapons-grade stupid... how appropriate.

31 16 When the media starts touting what a great job Bachman did (I did not watch it), I am tempted to assume that she is their designated stalking-horse.

I am leery of Bachmann, but she really did do well in the debate.  Do not fall into the trap of forming your opinions based on what you think the media wants you to think. 

Having said that, I do think that the media thinks she will be a good target based on her prior gaffes and mavericky (anti-GOP establishment) behavior. 

32 I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation.  That's going to be a big albatross during the general campaign.  Frankly, as long as someone's right on the important issues (taxes, economy, spending, regulation, etc.), they can believe in any creation myth they want.

33

Sarah Palin.

Longbows. 

God knows that I have the memory of a goldfish, but wasn't Guiliani the far and away front runner at one time leading up to '08?   In other words, all of this is crap.

34 He might actually get asked a couple questions like "You've been governor of Texas for a decade. Isn't that where George Booosh is from?"

35 Can we just once put the "purity" crap to rest? Nobody supports a candidate they think is a loser--except, I suspect, some of the "GOP consultants" who are actively selling us a bill of goods. You may think that Palin won't win. People who support her candidacy--that doesn't include me, BTW, although I'd gladly vote for her if she were nominated--think she can win. For the most part, they believe Romney can't win--and I agree there. So it's not about purity vs. electability, it's about believing that the GOP pundit class is either clueless or dishonest about what is electable.

36 God knows that I have the memory of a goldfish, but wasn't Guiliani the far and away front runner at one time leading up to '08?   In other words, all of this is crap.

Yes and yes.  Hell, Romney was the frontrunner in Iowa by a wide margin until Huckabee won the straw poll.

37 I like Romney and Bachmann being in the top 2 spots in the pollster known for getting it right, what? 99% of the time. don't listen to polls pimped out by HotAir, Rasmussen is the #1 pollster to look at. Romney made me more comfortable about him and Bachmann made me jump out of the T-Paw train. I think this poll shows that unless he changes his mild toast crap, T-Paw is done just as soon as he started. of course there's still Perry out there. and sorry folks but Christie and Palin aren't running.

38 Perry has had the advantage of not being in the ring and therefore not being covered very heavily. That will change if and when he announces.

---

I am cringing at the prospect of the Intelligent Design stuff coming up, but I still would put Perry at the top of my list if he enters the race. 

39

ABO - Anybody But Obama!

New and improved:

ABBOS- anyone but brokeass obama-soetero.

40 All Drew can think about is Bachmann's nice bounce.

Perv.

41 I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation. That's going to be a big albatross during the general campaign. Big albatross, to be with the majority of voters on the issue.

42

I hope Bachmann doesn't show up at the next debate in an hijab.  Whores wear the hijab. The burqa is for the pure at heart.

 

43 Bachmann is like 4 feet tall. For that alone she shouldn't be President, much less think of running for the office. Can you say, Little Woman Syndrome?

44

What the hell am I doing here, anyway?

 

Not catching Pollack.

45

I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation.

So do a fuckload of people who will be voting and who are getting a tiny bit pissed off at being patted on the heads and told how cute they are.

Personally, you can believe that you can spit in Cthulhu's eye(s) and still be allowed not to writhe in eternal torment for all I care so long as you comprehend that we can't keep spending like a drunken Lohan. 

46

God knows that I have the memory of a goldfish, but wasn't Guiliani the far and away front runner at one time leading up to '08? In other words, all of this is crap.

yes, but anti-Romney folks are still fighting History. only 2 times has a frontrunner at this point lost the GOP primary. in 1964 Rockfeller was the clear frontrunner and Goldwater came back to win. in 2008 Guliani was the clear frontrunner and McCain came back to win.

not saying it's possible but all you guys getting excited about that fact should know it's still an uphill battle.

either way I ain't voting for Obama or satying home. anyone who feels otherwise, gtfo.

47 I fully support the corn mandate. Nevertheless I believe in federalism. The federal government has no business telling people how to run their lives. That's the states' business.

48 I don't care if you believe Norse mythology is literally true you're still smarter than a socialist.

49 Sarah!!!!!!!!! Fap fap fap

50

Bachmann-Martinez

Bachmann-Romney

Bachmann-Perry

Perry-Martinez

Perry-Rubio

Perry-Giuliani

Bachmann-Giuliani

Romney-Bachmann

Romney-Martinez

Romney-Rubio

Romney-Perry.

 

Any of the above combinations clears the 270 EV hurdle.

51

Posted by: Y-not at June 16, 2011 11:49 AM (TFxd0)

meh, id' be more worry about any gay rights crap. the "creatonists" far out number the others. I don't see how it will hurt. a recent poll found that people are more wary of an atheist President then a mormon President.

52 I don't care if you believe Norse mythology is literally true you're still smarter than a socialist.

Heimdall in '12!

53 Is there anyone out there who shares my suspicion that the media's pimping of Huntsman is really an attempt to get Romney nominated, by making him seem good by comparison? I remember in 2000, lots of us were saying that there was no way in hell we'd support Bush II, due to his support for the assault weapons ban. Then along came McCain and his New Hampshire win, and we ended up supporting Bush as the lesser of two evils. Is that what they're trying here?

54

Posted by: CAC at June 16, 2011 11:53 AM (JEVge)

in other words, 2012 is starting to look pretty good?

55 Posted by: Mitt Romney at June 16, 2011 11:52 AM (AZGON)

Consistency is vastly over-rated!
Just look at what little paper trail I have and you can see how easy it is!

56 Fap fap fap

Posted by: Hotair Commenter at June 16, 2011 11:53 AM (wOwDN)

The delusional state over there is sad. There are Palin supporters, then there are the Palin cultists. The cultists have nested there and are now openly snickering the site is run by "trolls" like Ed and Allah.

 

Figure that logic out.

57

Posted by: Hotair Commenter at June 16, 2011 11:53 AM (wOwDN)

+1

58 > I'm surprised to see Romney doing so well with self-identified tea party voters. I imagine that's because a lot of folks calling themselves tea party voters in this survey don't fit the traditional profile (in other words, you'd roll their eyes when you hear them call themselves that based on some of their other positions). ^ This is some snooty bullshit.

59

All this sturm and drangin' 16 months out? Way too early, c'mon.

Besides, Guvnor Goodhair (Southwest edition) hasn't jumped in yet.

Until Sept./Oct, it's all sound and fury- Lord knows there's enough idiots around to tell the tale.

60 are now openly snickering the site is run by "trolls" like Ed and Allah.

AP has been trolling for traffic for years.  It didn't start with Palin.

61

Posted by: CAC at June 16, 2011 11:55 AM (JEVge)

oh God they're gonna put me in a position to defend Allah and Ed, damn the cultists

62

That is some weapons-grade stupid... how appropriate.

Posted by: sherlock at June 16, 2011 11:46 AM (jdXw+)

You see what this is, right?  They have gone to openly and explicitly extolling the goodness of Marxism.  Not even a hint of subtlety.  Fucking Greece is happening right now and the idiots are openly extolling what led to it. 

63 If we lose the Oval in 2012, the GOP is officially fucking dead to me.

There is just no way in hell we should lose this.

64 CAC @ 60: I don't really buy into the idea that VP's help or hurt a campaign. I can't imagine someone saying, "I prefer Obama, but I'll vote for Romney because his running mate is from my own state." In this sense, I think Bush's pick of Cheney was a good model: pick someone competent and make that the end of it.

65 Rick Perry won't run you silly fools. Nobody knows who the hell he is. Cept texas, and I doubt America wants another TX governor.

66
more preemptive whining and cocksuckerism

67 73 If we lose the Oval in 2012, the GOP is officially fucking dead to me. There is just no way in hell we should lose this. Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 16, 2011 11:57 AM (pLTLS) It would be a stupendous feat of political ineptness. A party that cannot beat the present 6 foot tall turd in the White House should make way for a real political party.

68

I'm not suprised by the Romney surge btw.

As unemployment goes up and forecasts for the economy grow dimmer, while the President yuks it up about no jobs being made, it pisses the opposition off further and they might run to the guy seen as the best to beat Obama.

btw Obama is only leading the GOP contender by 2 points in Kos' pollster.

69

Rick Perry won't run you silly fools.

I think you are mistaken. Time will tell.

How many people knew who Clinton was at this point in his race for the jackass candidacy?

70

If Obama does elk out a win, perhaps the Mayans' predictions were correct?

71 Mitt Romney is Scott Brown all over again.  They look like they came out of the same factory.  In Massachusetts.

72 How often do you guys go and read the comments at hot air? I quit doing that about a year ago. I needed hip-high boots to wade through the boredom and inanity.

73 Obama at 45% approval in Rasmussen too, Galluo themselves can't protect the one. and btw why is Cain still polling as high as he is after the abortion that was his performance in New Hampshire? do people just like the idea of a black candidate to go up against Obama?

74 they can believe in any creation myth they want.

Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 11:47 AM (dZ756)

What's it feel like to be a 5 percenter?

75

Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at June 16, 2011 12:02 PM (6IReR)

+1

76 Perhaps these voters are more pragmatic than the MFM likes to give them credit for and see Romeny as the best chance to beat Obama. Either way, it's surprising to see Mr. RomneyCare polling well with tea partiers.

Given, it's a tea party coalition of interests that the Republican Establishment has already usurped. (TX example: Perry v. Medina)

A lot of people who vote do not actually study.

Bear in mind, this is Mitt Rockefeller running for potus.

So decide consciously, Ace, et al., what stand you take regarding two-faced establishment corruption in this '12 campaign for POTUS.

77 61

Posted by: Y-not at June 16, 2011 11:49 AM (TFxd0)

meh, id' be more worry about any gay rights crap. the "creatonists" far out number the others. I don't see how it will hurt.

---

Creationists as in God created the Heavens and Earth - sure, they're the majority in this country.  But they don't want that taught in cosmology or physics classes. 

Creationists as in literal interpretation of the Bible - I doubt they're the majority in this country.   

I do not think it's accurate to say that the majority of people in this country want to see Intelligent Design taught alongside evolution in a public school biology class.  That's where Perry is a tad vulnerable - because of how the Texas Board of Education was run.  It's not about what he professes in church or in a parochial school.  (Palin, for example, is not really vulnerable on this issue because she showed no sign of leaving the door open for ID in public schools in Alaska.)

He'll overcome it, but for me as a scientist, it will be a little cringe-worthy to watch if he doesn't handle it just right.  I hope Perry took notes when Chris Christie handled that question.  He did the best of anyone I've seen so far. 

78
Here has the content which I need, might study.
Posted by: barbie cooking games

well, I'm sold.
/click

79 I don't see generic Republican on your list, CAC. I'm holding out for him to jump in the race.

80

btw Obama is only leading the GOP contender by 2 points in Kos' pollster.

Posted by: YRM (Becoming A Bachmann Supporter Lately) at June 16, 2011 11:59 AM (UzBwz)

But I have not yet begun to spend Soros' money, I have mastered the art of anonymous donations/contributions, I have doled out largesse to my contributors, I ACORN reborn by another name, and Ann Curry is about to jump my bones.

Eat your heart out Mittens!

81

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 16, 2011 12:00 PM (9hSKh)

+1

82 Analysis paralysis.

The only thing that came out of this is that Michelle Bachmann is taking the Herman Cain role as the flavor of the month.  This is why we have primaries in small states first.  Lesser-known candidates can work through a tough and grueling campaign, gathering support and money, they have to win again and again and again and a good debate performance doesn't mean much.

We haven't even had the Ames Straw Poll yet.

83 48 I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation. That's going to be a big albatross during the general campaign.
Big albatross, to be with the majority of voters on the issue.
///
Not sure about that, but it's going to be all the LSM talks about.  They will do their best to clown her on that and it's going to be a huge distraction.

Which leads me to wonder, if a supernatural deity with a penis (the Judeo-Christian god is considered male, yes?) can create the heavens and the Earth in 7 days, and dinosaurs too, why can't he fix our economy?

84

Mitt Romney is Scott Brown all over again.  They look like they came out of the same factory.  In Massachusetts.

Nope, Mitt was built in Michigan. Where koala coallall qwal making good stuff is job #1. Have you seen the volt?

85 Gah - gn is right, I'm afraid.

It seems dire to me that Americans - maybe humanity in general - is too hard-wired to overlook the superficial appeal of certain candidates for higher office.  Right now, I'd prefer the sort of no-nonsense, common-sense executive that would no doubt come across as curmudgeonly, dull, and non-photogenic.  That kind of person will never survive the primary process in a digital age.

86 "Can I please just have the ballot where there's an opponent of BHO listed and I can mark that spot, already?"

Comments like this make me want to trot out my fantasy voting system.

In my fantasy system, you're allowed to vote either affirmatively or negatively (i.e., I can either vote FOR the Useless RINO Moderate or AGAINST Barack Hussein O'OJ).

The winner remains the candidate with the highest vote, but if the voters are exceptionally displeased with the candidates, the winner could be the guy with the least negative total.

87 The cultists have nested there and are now openly snickering the site is run by "trolls" like Ed and Allah. Ed Morrissey isn't a troll, he's pretty much a mainstream Republican. Allahpundit may not be a troll, but he is a dick. He posts outlier polls, twists them to make the news really bad for the GOP, and then runs to hide behind his "beta male" crap. As for the commenters, yes, there is a lot of reinforcement of one another's beliefs. That's mainly because they require people to be registered, only register people every geologic eon, and ban people without warning. Not surprisingly, the number of different viewpoints is limited. They would have a much more interesting comments system if the moderators would take the sticks out of their asses and let people comment without registering, or at least allow them to register in the first place.

88

Khaddafy/Mubarak 2012!  With that Crazy Casbah Sound!!! 

89 SFGoth - because only God can make a dinosaur, but people created the economic mess and therefore need to fix it.

How's that?

90 Romney is one smart man.

91 Definitely, I'd vote Tea Party Bachmann vs. Establishment Romney or Perry.

92 What the hell, if 3/4 of the liberals I argue with on the Intertubes can be "Goldwater conservatives", then I guess a RINO can be a "Tea Partier".

93 OT: after all this time, all this publicity, it's still only Steven McIntyre standing between us and trillions of dollars of Global Warming Scam.

94 75 Rick Perry won't run you silly fools. Nobody knows who the hell he is. Yeah, that's a real deal killer, right?

95 (TX example: Perry v. Medina)

Bad example- if memory serves, Medina blew her foot off with truther jabber.

96 96 It seems dire to me that Americans - maybe humanity in general - is too hard-wired to overlook the superficial appeal of certain candidates for higher office.  Right now, I'd prefer the sort of no-nonsense, common-sense executive that would no doubt come across as curmudgeonly, dull, and non-photogenic.  That kind of person will never survive the primary process in a digital age.

Indeed.

97 Posted by: FireHorse at June 16, 2011 11:40 AM (peN5l)

Dean didn't just "chug along" in 04. He was the firebrand insurgent, not the experienced, well funded (by mainline donors) front runner that Romney is.

98 100 SFGoth - because only God can make a dinosaur, but people created the economic mess and therefore need to fix it.
How's that?
///
A+ for use of non-sequitur.  You didn't say God can't fix the economic mess.  Didn't God send the Noah flood, destroy Soddom and Gomorrah, etc., to fix prior messes?

99 Ed Morrissey isn't a troll, he's pretty much a mainstream Republican.

I think he's more of a libertarian-leaning compassionate conservative.  He's got some odd positions on social issues. 

100 They would have a much more interesting comments system if the moderators would take the sticks out of their asses and let people comment without registering, or at least allow them to register in the first place.

Posted by: Ken at June 16, 2011 12:05 PM (JYADs)

Yes, but, look at what that lead to here at AoS!

101

is Christoph among us again?...

Which leads me to wonder, if a supernatural deity with a penis (the Judeo-Christian god is considered male, yes?) can create the heavens and the Earth in 7 days, and dinosaurs too, why can't he fix our economy?

...i'd suggest you tone down the militant atheism bud

102 People read Ed Morrisey? Oh. News to me.

103 @ 106- Sock, I damn thee.

104 I don't doubt that the MFM will go after Bachmann on creationism, but just wait until they go after Romney on LDS's history of discrimination against blacks.

Forget about the "magic underwear" jokes they'll do non-stop, just wait for the "OMG!  Mormons are kinda racist!" exclusives.

"Will the voters really fire America's first black President in favor of a racist?  The polls ("Do you think Barack Obama should be replaced by a racist?) say NO!" will be lead story from the moment Mitt secures the nomination until election day.

105

Posted by: bobo teamster, reclining at a factory near you. at June 16, 2011 12:06 PM (tk5O7)

yep, on Glenn Beck's show, Glenn quickly disavowed her and supported Perry. not the last time Beck accidently got w/ the wrong kind of people...

106 Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:04 PM (dZ756)


He loves you, in spite of yourself.

107

@kensington.

Ding. You win the giant fucking Panda.

108
That kind of person will never survive the primary process in a digital age.
Posted by: scooter at June 16, 2011 12:04 PM

We need the hyperdigital age, when the candidates will have avatars. In fact, they should all be Black.

109 What did the others, particularly Pawlenty and Bachmann, say about sharia law and loyalty oaths during the debate? 

Posted by: Y-not at June 16, 2011 11:37 AM (TFxd0)

The intelligent (and accurate) response to the question about administering loyalty oaths to Muslims is that they are a waste of time because the koran encourages Muslims to lie in order to advance the cause of jihad.

110 53

I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation.

So do a fuckload of people who will be voting and who are getting a tiny bit pissed off at being patted on the heads and told how cute they are.

Personally, you can believe that you can spit in Cthulhu's eye(s) and still be allowed not to writhe in eternal torment for all I care so long as you comprehend that we can't keep spending like a drunken Lohan. 

Posted by: alexthechick at June 16, 2011 11:51 AM (VtjlW)

 

best comment on the thread so far...

 

111 I don't see generic Republican on your list, CAC. I'm holding out for him to jump in the race.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2011 12:03 PM (AZGON)

Generic Republican already wins, paired with his running mate Besthoff Allworlds

112 98 ...Allahpundit may not be a troll, but he is a dick. He posts outlier polls, twists them to make the news really bad for the GOP, and then runs to hide behind his "beta male" crap.

He unfortunately does that with more than just the polls (at times). The benefit of so doing (of course) is that it increases traffic.

113 let's not turn this into a vintage Allah ed on God VS atheism folks

114 118 Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:04 PM (dZ756)
He loves you, in spite of yourself.
///
Everybody's god loves me, so I hear.  Ok, well Allah hates me, but that's a good thing.  At this point in time, I'd prefer to hear "she loves you".  Yeah yeah yeah.

115 We need the hyperdigital age, when the candidates will have avatars. In fact, they should all be Black.

Posted by: arhooley at June 16, 2011 12:10 PM (M+5NF)

A candidate anonymizer--that's the ticket.  Voice scramblers should be used as well.

Won't we be surprised when we find we have elected HAL 9000 as President!

116 Posted by: Ken at June 16, 2011 12:05 PM

If you really want to register, take a daily detour to the site to see when registration season is announced for the day.

It's been a while, so they'll be shopping for a new crop of idiots to prop up their numbers soon.

Happy hunting.

117 115 I don't doubt that the MFM will go after Bachmann on creationism, but just wait until they go after Romney on LDS's history of discrimination against blacks.

Forget about the "magic underwear" jokes they'll do non-stop, just wait for the "OMG!  Mormons are kinda racist!" exclusives.

---

Old news.  Other churches have restrictions on who is allowed into the priesthood. 

But the main reason it won't carry any weight is that the LDS church is (regrettably) very soft on illegals.  From what I've heard, President Monson is probably a Democrat. 

118 Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:12 PM (dZ756)

What a sad lonely existence you must be living. It shows.

119 How often do you guys go and read the comments at hot air? I quit doing that about a year ago. I needed hip-high boots to wade through the boredom and inanity.

I still go there to put the nutters in some f'ing knowledge.  But yeah- the comment section has devolved heavily; most of the worthwhile commenters abandoned the comments section.

What's worse is that AP and even Ed pander to them now; every primary thread they throw in a reference to SP for the comment bait.  AP I understand, but that Ed would join in on the act is just sad.

120

#60, good list.

 

I keep holding out hope for T-Paw.  I want to go in for him, but he just isn't closing yet.

121 122 53

I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation.

So do a fuckload of people who will be voting and who are getting a tiny bit pissed off at being patted on the heads and told how cute they are.

Personally, you can believe that you can spit in Cthulhu's eye(s) and still be allowed not to writhe in eternal torment for all I care so long as you comprehend that we can't keep spending like a drunken Lohan. 

Posted by: alexthechick at June 16, 2011 11:51 AM (VtjlW)

best comment on the thread so far...

///

You (and apparently everyone) is missing the point.  I did not say I would not vote for her because of that (I think she is pretty good on the issues I care about), but man, the campaign is going to be so side-showed it's going to be ugly.  You think the debates so far have been jokes, wait until she gets asked which dinosaurs cave men ate and so forth.   Yikes.  Good luck getting to issues of substance.

(Brontosaurus, of course - where do you think brontoburgers come from, sauropods?)

122 He might actually get asked a couple questions like "You've been governor of Texas for a decade. How did you allow your state to fall into a $27 billion dollar budget crisis this year?". That might leave a mark. The Texas legislature meets every other year and only for 140 days. The budget shortfall is due to projections of income were not met because Obama has destroyed the economy. But we balanced the budget with CUTS not TAX increases. Unlike a California legislature that is in session all the time raping taxpayers all year.

123

Posted by: David Carradine at June 16, 2011 12:14 PM (plsiE)

i'd also argue the new chick, Korbe, ain't that good either. yeah she's nice eye candy but when you realize she ain't jumping your bones and read you see just as much SP traffic bait in her posts

124 I'd prefer to hear "she loves you".  Yeah yeah yeah.
Posted by: SFGoth

Check out Gnostic Christianity.

125 "Old news.  Other churches have restrictions on who is allowed into the priesthood.

But the main reason it won't carry any weight is that the LDS church is (regrettably) very soft on illegals.  From what I've heard, President Monson is probably a Democrat."

Yeah, we won't use that against Mitt.  Promise.  We're not that big in the tank for Obama anymore anyway.

126 I want to know how evolution being "taught" in junior high schools is any different from religion.

"Here's evolution.  It's the absolute metaphysical truth.  No, you can't question it.  Shut up and spout back what I tell you."

I don't think evolution is much of a scientific theory anyway.  There's no such thing as Darwin's equations.  There's no central hypotheses like, say Newton's laws.  It's more of a paradigm or an umbrella term for things that are better understood like DNA-mixing.

Students at that level can learn Mendelian genetics and they'd be much better off doing so, rather than some preaching. Of course, ID is only a science if you accept AGW as a science -- they approach the scientific method in about the same way. 

In reality, the scientific method is rather passe these days.  I don't blame scientists for not being fussed about it, what with all the financial success of social "science."

127

Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:15 PM (dZ756)

your shit is starting to piss me off, we already got rid of Christoph, we don't need another prick

128 I'm pretty sure that if the Democrats make jokes about God's penis, they'll hand a lot of votes to the Republicans. This isn't entirely a good thing: you have politicians like Trent Lott who get away with murder from the GOP base because they benefit from Democrat extremism. When the Democrats go far left, more often than not the GOP moves left to pick up alienated voters in the middle. At this point one of two things happen: either (a) the GOP establishment grossly underestimates the conservatism of the voters, and loses because their "centrist" positions are too left-wing for voters (Bush I); or (b) they pick their centrist positions fairly well, but in the process allow the economy to deteriorate (Nixon, Bush II). Then the Dems come back to win, with their left-wing positions still intact. The solution: stop listening to consultants telling candidates to "move to the center." That's a cliche, not a strategy. Most of those consultants wouldn't know the center if it climbed up the stick in their ass and bit them there.

129 Posted by: izoneguy at June 16, 2011 12:15 PM

Thanks for posting that.  I was to lazy to do so, but it needed to be said.

130 What's wrong with Bachmann?

Two main things- she's only a House rep, and she has a history of foot-in-mouth disease.

She did well in the debate, but I doubt it'll be long before she becomes reacquainted with the taste of her own foot again. Also keep in mind that there's only been one President elected from the House with no other major qualifications- Abraham Lincoln.

Oh, and out, damned sock.

131 Perry or palin not in the poll? Is it just the debate poll?

132

great, new post

I can escape the stupid religion vs atheism war that's about to break out

133

Romney's "I'll issue a waiver to all the states" crap just really bugs me.  It just sounds to cutesy and the law will still be on the books and they'll just tweak it with him as president.

Don't say that shit.  Say that if you are nominated you want a bill on your desk your first week in office that repeals Obamacare.  No more of this waiver bullshit.

134 130 Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:12 PM (dZ756)
What a sad lonely existence you must be living. It shows.
///
Really?  Here, I'm the guy in the dark blue 18th century outfit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7FtW8tY-Pc
This was just before a recent local historical dance ball. (It was a pirate theme, but since I prefer to dress up, I opted for the fancies.)  I got some friends together and taught them a quadrille I learned in Dresden, Germany last December.  We pulled it off perfectly.  But I'm sad and lonely.

135 i'd also argue the new chick, Korbe, ain't that good either. yeah she's nice eye candy but when you realize she ain't jumping your bones and read you see just as much SP traffic bait in her posts

Yeah, I'm not impressed so far.  Cute girl, but her youth and inexperience comes through in her posts.

136 "The solution: stop listening to consultants telling candidates to "move to the center." That's a cliche, not a strategy. Most of those consultants wouldn't know the center if it climbed up the stick in their ass and bit them there."

In the center, you agree to abort the baby but then name it, baptize it and give it a proper burial.  Everybody wins!

That will be $10,000.

137 133 122 53

I've heard that Bachmann believes in Biblical creation.

So do a fuckload of people who will be voting and who are getting a tiny bit pissed off at being patted on the heads and told how cute they are.

Personally, you can believe that you can spit in Cthulhu's eye(s) and still be allowed not to writhe in eternal torment for all I care so long as you comprehend that we can't keep spending like a drunken Lohan. 

Posted by: alexthechick at June 16, 2011 11:51 AM (VtjlW)

best comment on the thread so far...

///

You (and apparently everyone) is missing the point.  I did not say I would not vote for her because of that (I think she is pretty good on the issues I care about), but man, the campaign is going to be so side-showed it's going to be ugly.  You think the debates so far have been jokes, wait until she gets asked which dinosaurs cave men ate and so forth.   Yikes.  Good luck getting to issues of substance.

(Brontosaurus, of course - where do you think brontoburgers come from, sauropods?)

Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:15 PM (dZ756)

 

wasn't trying to crack on you... the correct answer to that question is "My religious beliefs are my own and not any of your business"

 

138 @138
I don't think evolution is much of a scientific theory anyway.  There's no such thing as Darwin's equations.

First off, no one is still hanging onto Darwin's work.  It was a starting point, like Mendel's work or Einstein's work. 

And actually, some of the best evidence for the process of evolution comes from statistical analysis of genetic (and protein) sequences.  Using those sequences, I can give a good idea of what organisms are more closely related to each other.  The genetic analysis, which is completely objective, fits with what the fossil evidence and good old-fashioned taxonomic analysis tells us. 


Honestly, AmishDude, being a mathematician doesn't make you a scientist. 

139 Hey, is JackStraw around?  I know he's a Romney supporter.  I sense the increasing feeling of inevitability, and I'd like to see a supporter make a good case.  I can intellectually square away Romneycare (whether others will be able to is another question), and I've seen him say some good things about the auto bailouts, etc.  He presents well. 

But I'm not too thrilled with a number of his positions (and flip-flops since being governor of MA, though I understand the political necessity of them and suspect that they reveal his true personal beliefs more accurately anyway).  I don't know how convincing people will find his rationalization of Romneycare vs. Obamacare, and whether he'll be able to sell the nation on the differences.

Of course, when Rick Perry gets into the race all this may change...but I don't like that guy one bit, tell you the truth.

140 **I don't care if you believe Norse mythology is literally true you're still smarter than a socialist.** FTW!!!!!

141 Honestly, I am not a religious fanatic; I go to church but I have my own concepts about God that aren't in line with my denomination. However, the vast majority of people who embrace the "atheist" label are radical leftists. So I tend to side with the "religious right" as a practical matter.

142

"I'm surprised to see Romney doing so well with self-identified tea party voters. I imagine that's because a lot of folks calling themselves tea party voters in this survey don't fit the traditional profile (in other words, you'd roll their eyes when you hear them call themselves that based on some of their other positions)."

Why the surprise?  A big chunk of the "Tea Party" were/are people who simply wanted to make sure that *their* supply of Free Shit, in the form of Social Security and Medicare, didn't get reduced.  Supporting Romney isn't exactly antithetical to that position.

143 143 Perry or palin not in the poll? Is it just the debate poll?

I think it was just a debate poll or a poll of actual candidates. 

Was Huntsman in it?

144 >>The Texas legislature meets every other year and only for 140 days. The budget shortfall is due to projections of income were not met because Obama has destroyed the economy. But we balanced the budget with CUTS not TAX increases. Unlike a California legislature that is in session all the time raping taxpayers all year. No you didn't. You only partially balanced it by making huge cuts and dipping into your rainy day fund. But you aren't close to having a balanced budget and you are going to have to cut even more soon. Perry has already said no to using any more of the rainy day money. As to Obama ruining the economy, how does that track with Perry's constant claim that Texas has a booming economy and has been adding more jobs than any other state in the last couple years? Can't have it both ways. Texas ranks near the bottom in education with some of the worst SAT scores and high school graduation rates in the country. You are going to have to make even deeper cuts to education now. How do you think that's going to play in the msm? Texas is not in very good shape right now and Perry has been in charge for the decline. If he decides to get into the race his record will come under a lot of scrutiny, a hell of a lot more than it has so far.

145

creation vs evolution?

 

evolution is a process God set in motion to produce us.

146

(Brontosaurus, of course - where do you think brontoburgers come from, sauropods?)

Posted by: SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:15 PM (dZ756)

The Brontosaurus is as imaginary as you claim God to be.

147 155 143 I think it was just a debate poll or a poll of actual candidates. 

Was Huntsman in it?

Actual.
Yes he was.

148

@7: "ABO"

Abo = Australian slang for Aborigine.  Fuckin' racist.

149

#129,

But the main reason it won't carry any weight is that the LDS church is (regrettably) very soft on illegals.  From what I've heard, President Monson is probably a Democrat. 

Yeah, the Mormons have gotten atypically all into social justice on the immigration question.  They recently put out a statement calling for comprehensive immigration reform and suggesting that immigration enforcement shouldn't be trusted to the states.  It was kind of an incoherent mess, but yuck.

One more reason not to go for Romney.  Most of the other candidates are sucky in immigration (Perry pushed through the Texas DREAM Act and Numbers USA gave most of the current candidates Fs or Ds), and Romney was good on immigration.  But can you really trust him anyway, especially when his church is pushing in a squish direction?  I don't think so.

 

On the other hand, if Romney keeps pushing for enforcement-first and attrition, that would impress me.

150 SFGoth, for all we know the economic Wrath of God is, in fact, on the way.  It rather feels that way.  What's the financial equivalent of a 40-day flood that drowns everyone?  America defaults under its staggering debt load, followed by hyperinflation, anarchy, and total societal collapse?

Noah didn't wake up to a world where the evil were killed and neatly buried; I bet cleanup after that was a mess.  Likewise, the Obama administration.

151 I want to echo what SFGoth said.  Whether or not I agree with Perry (or Bachmann or whoever) on evolution/intelligent design or any other issue where there's a religious belief component, will not in and of itself stop me from voting for him or her. It's how they govern and it's how they prioritize their platform for POTUS. 

In Perry's case, I would hope that he would promise to disband the Dept of Ed, or at the very least weaken it severely, so in that case it doesn't even really matter to me that I'm not 100% happy with what's been done in Texas on education.  If he makes it a local issue - as Christie did - that will be good enough for me. 

But just as some of you might cringe to find yourself voting for someone who's core religious beliefs conflict with your own, I have my issues that make me cringe. 

152 In the center, you agree to abort the baby but then name it, baptize it and give it a proper burial. Everybody wins! I saw yesterday that John Weaver is advising the Huntsman campaign, and is making a bunch of nasty comments about the GOP base. For those of you who don't know, Weaver is the man who gave John McCain in 2000 the sage advice of making his campaign primarily a run against the NRA--right at the moment that the gun issue was turning around and becoming an albatross around the Democrats' necks. Clever man, that Weaver. He also temporarily joined the Democrats during the last decade. Makes you wonder how many of these consultants are deliberately giving bad advice to Republicans.

153 150 @138
I don't think evolution is much of a scientific theory anyway.  There's no such thing as Darwin's equations.

First off, no one is still hanging onto Darwin's work.  It was a starting point, like Mendel's work or Einstein's work. 

And actually, some of the best evidence for the process of evolution comes from statistical analysis of genetic (and protein) sequences.  Using those sequences, I can give a good idea of what organisms are more closely related to each other.  The genetic analysis, which is completely objective, fits with what the fossil evidence and good old-fashioned taxonomic analysis tells us. 


Honestly, AmishDude, being a mathematician doesn't make you a scientist. 

Posted by: Y-not at June 16, 2011 12:21 PM (TFxd0)

Theories do not usually require equations anyways.  Laws are typically the ones that utilize equations.  And they are not some straight line path to go from Theory to Law, since those two things are basically the top level you can reach scientifically speaking.

154 Yeah, the Mormons have gotten atypically all into social justice on the immigration question.

The Utah legislature pushed through a pretty annoying piece of legislation on immigration and Gov. Herbert signed it.  But most of the Republicans I've spoken with - who are all LDS as well - think it will be modified or overturned. 

I think Monson is out of step with the political views of the Utah Mormons, frankly, and I am pretty sure there are several good conservatives amongst the 12 prophets.  But it is a global church so they, like my own church (RC), wind up coming with odd positions. 

155 Since you all want to bring the Mormon issue in, here's my take. There's nothing wrong with an average Mormon from a Mormon community running for anything. Senator Mike Lee is a perfect example. These guys represent everything that's good about the conservative Mormon culture. However, Romney is not part of that culture. He's a Mormon, but he has lived around non-Mormon cosmopolitan types his whole life. His Mormonism is the Mormonism of the Salt Lake City hierarchy, which is political rather than cultural in nature, and which has been moving left for the past few decades. Basically, Romney is a MINO.

156 Work Smarter.
Not Harder.

  You think the debates so far have been jokes, wait until she gets asked which dinosaurs cave men ate and so forth.   Yikes.  Good luck getting to issues of substance.

SFGoth at June 16, 2011 12:15 PM

1) Use THE literal lesson Gen. Honore taught a dickhead reporter. "You're stuck on stupid." Stay on your own platform targeting your own responses towards achieving the assigned/desired goal.

2) Exercise control over the public dialogue by answering questions that NEED answering and staying on your own platform without allowing distractions chasing wild geese. /cue: Gingrich performance @ CNN GOP debate.

3) N.B. Palin's method, having learned the hard way, now playing the media's own game against them.

On dogma, an unprovable tenant of faith, it doesn't matter what religious beliefs one professes so long as none are authoritarian and/or particularly sexist.

How one identifies the rights of others to limit THEIR personal expectations by imposing limitations is a significant matter. And on the determination to keep all women in the celestial kingdom perpetually pregnant, Romney's conviction is a pathetic parallel to the Jihadists' glory.

157 What happened to my thread??!!

158

I can escape the stupid religion vs atheism war that's about to break out

Posted by: YRM (Becoming A Bachmann Supporter Lately) at June 16, 2011 12:18 PM (UzBwz)

I'm not a fan of censorship or "taboo subjects" but I would caution against letting this religion/atheism, evolution/creationism business get out of hand.

Those of us here who are refugees from the little green blog remember that that was the beginning of the end there...

This blog is a powerful conservative voice in the media and there are those who would like to silence, it the same way others have been silenced- by stirring up division and disunity with inflammatory subjects that are ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

^{*descends soapbox*}

159 nice work in the other thread assholes. why do some people have to defy ace on his blog?

160

nice work in the other thread assholes. why do some people have to defy ace on his blog?

What happened? I just opened the thread when it disappeared.

161 What happened to that thread??

162 Where did the Alan Colmes thread go?

163 It's very early, folks. Nevertheless, it appears that Ann Coulter's prediction may be true. The GOP may indeed pick Romney. I will leave the second half of her prediction unstated.

164 Never make an Ewok angry. You'd think a bunch of Star Wars nerds would learn.

165

What happened?? I was gettin my wiener on and POOF!

Did I break the interwebs again?

 

166 I sort of missed it but I think some people were saying stuff over the line about Ginger Lee.

167 ace asked some morons not to discuss something, so naturally they continued.

168 I will leave the second half of her prediction unstated.

Let me guess the last word.

DOOM

169

Guess I gotta get my Romney on now

Eh...but how?

170 OT: C-SPAN 3 is playing another GOP on jobs and the economy. The leadership is holding another one live at 7:30pm EST.

171 I sort of missed it but I think some people were saying stuff over the line about Ginger Lee.

I'm sure it was about "Comely Coed", not "Porn Star".

172

#166,

I think Monson is out of step with the political views of the Utah Mormons, frankly, and I am pretty sure there are several good conservatives amongst the 12 prophets.  But it is a global church so they, like my own church (RC), wind up coming with odd positions. 

Yeah.  I'm Mormon myself.  My own analysis of the recent Mormon Church statement is that as a religious or political document its an incoherent mess, but as a PR/outreach document it makes a lot of sense.  Doesn't make it right, though.

Also, you may overestimate the degree to which Monson cares about politics at all.  My impression of him is that he's a 'good government' type who dislikes conflict and 'extremism' on principle.,

 

#167, However, Romney is not part of that culture. He's a Mormon, but he has lived around non-Mormon cosmopolitan types his whole life. His Mormonism is the Mormonism of the Salt Lake City hierarchy, which is political rather than cultural in nature, and which has been moving left for the past few decades.

Basically, Romney is a MINO.

You are right that the Mormon elites aren't always on the same page with the general conservative Mormon culture.  but you are wrong if you think either Romney or the Salt Lake hierarchy are Mormon in name only.  I know Mormons, Romney's as committed as they come.  Politically he'd probably be better off if he weren't.

 

#168,

And on the determination to keep all women in the celestial kingdom perpetually pregnant, Romney's conviction is a pathetic parallel to the Jihadists' glory.

Hey, fucktard, shut your mouth, your brains have finished trickling out. 

You don't have a clue.

173 ace asked some morons not to discuss something, so naturally they continued.

It would be nice, if he kind of told those of us in the "huh?" group why we got bounced out, just in case we were unwittingly contributing.

174 Guess I gotta get my Romney on now

Eh...but how?

Do U Haz Speshul Underwerz?

175 154 Honestly, I am not a religious fanatic; I go to church but I have my own concepts about God that aren't in line with my denomination.
However, the vast majority of people who embrace the "atheist" label are radical leftists. So I tend to side with the "religious right" as a practical matter.
///
Ahhhh, now I get the earlier remark referring to me as a 5%'er -- I'm one of the few atheists (extreme agnostic is more accurate) who tends right.  Luckily, I know a few more of the 5%'ers.

Let's not take the line that all soccons are eccons too.  In fact, far from it.

176 First off, no one is still hanging onto Darwin's work.  It was a starting point, like Mendel's work or Einstein's work. 

That's not what I hear.  Wasn't there some massive anniversary for Darwin recently? If he was wrong, why is he such a big deal?

Besides, we (mathematicians) use the language of metaphysical certainty because that's the coin of our realm.  We still use Newton's stuff but physicists recognize that it's only an approximation (i.e., it's wrong).

Using those sequences, I can give a good idea of what organisms are more closely related to each other.

Predicting the past.  Fantastic.  Well done.  I know about the whole phylogenetic tree (or non-tree) business. 

The genetic analysis, which is completely objective, fits with what the fossil evidence and good old-fashioned taxonomic analysis tells us.

Again, what does this have to do with "evolution"?  The only thing that's evolved in the last 150 years is the definition of "evolution".

Honestly, AmishDude, being a mathematician doesn't make you a scientist. 

Absolutely.  Science is too easy.

Besides, you can be horribly wrong and nobody cares.  You use the language of metaphysical certainty and then, when you're wrong, completely throw the old stuff away, pretending you didn't assert its truth with metaphysical certainty.

I'd just like to hear "Our best wild guess, based on the tiny sliver of information we are lucky enough to have at the moment, and will more-than-likely be contradicted by further information to come is..."

177

Ooh, conspiracy time.

The Mormons have gone soft on immigration just in time for Romney to go hard on immigration, get a lots of publicity on a popular position (controversy makes the news), and reassure voters that he doesn't take orders from the Mormon church.

It would be a win-win.

Quick, to the Temple phone!  Need to call my Danite contacts.

178 Ah, Comely Coed. Anyway, don't make the Ewok angry. Let the Ewok win.

179 83

Hot Air was my number one blog back when it had original videos and the guy it had before Ed, but it start slipping.  My biggest complaint was the commentators.  Not just because they now worship Palin, but because back whenever there was a subject about Catholism, the commentators would rag on it and talk about how it wasn't really Christianity.  Which I thought was incredibly rude, ESPECIALLY since Malkin (and later Ed) were Catholic.  I mean, hello!  The blog is about right wing politics, right?  Focus!

Now the blog is a distant second for me.

(Sorry for going off topic, Ace.)

180 179 ace asked some morons not to discuss something, so naturally they continued.

Posted by: PR at June 16, 2011 12:44 PM (EF7Ps)

Yeah, I saw that post.  I had no idea what he was complaining about.  He never said what was the taboo.

181

Let's not take the line that all soccons are eccons too.  In fact, far from it.

Don't go to far in the opposite direction either.  Lots and lots of evidence that most conservatives are socially conservative, economically conservative, and national security/law'n'order conservatives at the same time. Overlap is substantial.

182 So long as Hot Air remains an "exclusive club" that only opens registration on a blue moon or grants the right to post to "friends" of the blog only, it will remain a (currently) non-insane version of CJ's Little Green Fucktards, IMO.

183

Theories do not usually require equations anyways.  Laws are typically the ones that utilize equations.  And they are not some straight line path to go from Theory to Law, since those two things are basically the top level you can reach scientifically speaking.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2011 12:29 PM (oVQFe)

A theory should be based on a falsifiable hypothesis.  If you have an unquantifiable statement, then it's difficult to falsify.  It turns from a theory to a paradigm to little more than a word with an indistinct definition.

184 It would be nice, if he kind of told those of us in the "huh?" group why we got bounced out, just in case we were unwittingly contributing. while he might have been a little opaque in this instance, he's been more than clear about not mentioning others in the weiner thing. but some people cannot be coached or criticized. they stop listening immediately and claim they were never wrong and mention it again. moron is not always an ironic moniker. Yeah, I saw that post. I had no idea what he was complaining about. He never said what was the taboo. I guess he could have been clearer, but it was obvious he was talking about the comely coed or the pron star. and people kept going on about the pron star. he just didn't threaten the ban hammer and spell it out. he probably gets tired of talking to adults that way.

185

Predicting the past.  Fantastic.  Well done. 

Shouldn't a valid theory be able to do that?  It's better than AGW can muster.

And I think Ace is touchy about people trashing Weiner's "victims" for lack of a better word.  Don't know didn't see the thread.

186 Senator Mike Lee is a perfect example. These guys represent everything that's good about the conservative Mormon culture.

Ken, I agree.

Lee's family history marks his tenacious ability to survive despite being made the horrible scapegoat for Brigham Young's own villainy. The Lee family has retained ties and identity with the "common" laboring people. While pursuing legal and political roles in American society, Mike Lee lives the real integrity of character that Mitt Romney only wishes were his own to exploit for gain.  The Romney family exploited laborers miserably in Utah mines in order to get ahead.  Utah remains one of the WORST places in America to be a blue collar employee, miserable working conditions and pay, not to mention the status conscious white collar elitist society that Mormons have chosen to be.  When George Romney arrived in the US from Mexico, it was to join the Eastern industrial elitists. Mitt didn't build any industry, but only bought his way into the Ivy Beleaguers. George and his son Mitt never looked back to retain any family ties with their agrarian family remaining behind in their Romney colony in Mexico.

187 >>The Romney family exploited laborers miserably in Utah mines in order to get ahead. Utah remains one of the WORST places in America to be a blue collar employee, miserable working conditions and pay, not to mention the status conscious white collar elitist society that Mormons have chosen to be. When George Romney arrived in the US from Mexico, it was to join the Eastern industrial elitists. Mitt didn't build any industry, but only bought his way into the Ivy Beleaguers. George and his son Mitt never looked back to retain any family ties with their agrarian family remaining behind in their Romney colony in Mexico. You do know that you have no idea what you are talking about and everything you just said is wrong, don't you?

188 We still use Newton's stuff but physicists recognize that it's only an approximation

<soapbox>
Nothing in the stated rules of motion in Newton's Principia, has ever been proven "wrong". Our interpretations of his work have been proven to be inaccurate. For instance Newton said "rate of change of the momentum of a particle is proportional to the resultant force acting on the particle and is in the direction of that force"

It is expressed by ΣF= (v *dm/dt) * (m dv/dt)

We are the silly ones who said "Well dm/dt = 0 because mass doesn't change therefore F=ma" without having scientific proof that mass *couldn't* change under any circumstance. Einstein comes along and demonstrates mass can and does change to some degree for every particle in motion F no longer equals ma and we blame Newton? How did Einstein evaluate bodies in motion near speed of light? Using ΣF= (v *dm/dt) * (m dv/dt) just like Newton said he should.

The "Newton was wrong and disproven by Einstein" is a case of a lie that has been repeated enough times everyone thinks it's the truth.
</soapbox>

189

I find it unsurpisng Romney is doing as well as this poll suggests.  It's all about the economy folks and there's no one in the currently slate who has both successful corporate and govermental management experience plus his links to the party establishment

Yeah I know.."Romneycare" but I personally believe he signed the POS to avoid something worse from the MassCommunist legistature he was dealing with at the time and is now forced to "sorta" defend it. 

If I were to write a winning ticket at the moment it would be: Romney/Palin, Romney/Perry, or Romney/Bachman..  This will obviously change as we move on but the players will remain the same for me...it's just a matter defining the order of precendence.  Palin/Perry (or Perry/Palin) is intriguing for a libertarian Texan like me.

RiverRat

190 It is expressed by ΣF= (v *dm/dt) * (m dv/dt)

Ooops equation fail.

That should be. ΣF= (v *dm/dt) + (m * dv/dt)

191

Jackstraw,

#199,

no, he probably isn't aware that he's spreading Big Lies 'n' Bullshit.

Buddha on a Stick, I'm not a Romney apologist but maverickmuse is preaching utter crap.

192

#201, RiverRat

If I were to write a winning ticket at the moment it would be: Romney/Palin,

We might could do better up top, but, no offense to the Palinistas, giving Palin a chance to reboot and prove herself is very intriguing.  She has a lot of talent but it just hasn't gotten far enough along yet.

193 Mitt just chugs along above it all.

He still sucks.

194 I don't have a problem with the Romney family giving jobs to poor people in Utah. I have a problem with their culturally very un-Mormon politics.

195 Romney on illegal immigration? As I posted in his eval he was all for the McCain 2006 amnesty bill. He hasn't even tried to walk that one back yet.

If Huntsman drops out Romney will go back to being the most liberal candidate.

And no Ras is FOS because the Tea Party people do not support him. In fact if he wins the nom I expect the Tea Party will nominate a Third Party candidate and that 18% that Ras was talking about from the earlier poll will come out of the Republican party to vote for the Tea Party candidate.

The three legged stool that Reagan used to talk about is close to losing one of its legs because conservatives are damned tired of being offered up "moderates" and told to like it or lump it because they must vote for the lesser of the evils.

But I am not worried about these polls this far out. It is still nothing more than name recognition. At this stage of the game in 2007 it was all over as well. It was going to be Rudy vs Hillary and a lot of people were worried because only McCain could beat Hillary. 

196 I am not sure that Pawlenty going knuckles with Romney would have been the best plan.  After all Huck and Mitt went at it and it turned people of to both of them.  I am pretty sure you posted almost that exact line of thinking about negative attack ads.  People want to say they hate them but it drags down  opinion and enthusiasm for the attacke and the attacked.

Those Huck Mitt scrapes were obnoxious and disillusioning in the 08 debates we don't need a rerun.  Pawlenty called it Obamneycare and it was covered on drudge that very day.  Sure more people saw that then the debate.  I think Pawlenty handled it well.

197 The "consultants" are trying to create the myth of invincibility, in order to make it seem "unnatural" to vote for a more conservative candidate. Then they'll feign anger and endorse Obama. This is their MO. However, the fix doesn't have to be in. Conservatives can make it clear in advance that there are certain candidates we just won't accept.

198 Pawlenty didn't handle it well, because he seemed like a coward. He should have taken Romney on in the debate, and told John King to fuck off and die if he had a problem with that.

199 Is the post about lying partisan dickweed Alan Colmes acting strange for others?  When I click on the comments all I get is the box for comments.  No poat, no prior comments. 

200

I don't have a problem with the Romney family giving jobs to poor people in Utah. I have a problem with their culturally very un-Mormon politics.

Right.  Romneycare sucks whether or not Romney is Mormon or Reformed Hindu or sacrifices virgin sprouts to Veganthulu. 

201 We are the silly ones who said "Well dm/dt = 0 because mass doesn't change therefore F=ma"

Well, I've never actually read Principia, but I'm willing to guess that this is a retroactive rewriting.  Newton would have assumed dm/dt=0.  In his experience, the change of mass would result in the object losing integrity as well and couldn't be properly measured using continuity.

Then don't blame Newton, blame the rest of the scientists who used his work,  and stated dm/dt=0.  They, at least, were wrong.

It isn't Piltdown Man, but scientists should be a little more willing to understand that they don't know what they don't know.

202 Did Ace just say he was impressed with Michelle Bachmann's ass and wanted to give her candy?

203 Newton's "approximations" were good enough to get us to the frikkin' moon is all I'm sayin'.

204 Focus on getting a President-President, and focus on flipping Congress to minimize or eliminate concerns of Romney as RINO.

Romney/West or Romney/Bachman--each would do major, major long-term damage to the Democrat Party we know.

At this point, I don't think even Huckabee could beat Bachmann (or Romney). 

Remember, with an incumbent President, getting shelf space in a primary is much more difficult.  I can't see anyone beating Romney--the guy just has too much to offer. SORRY"MITTENS" PEOPLE.

205 Well, if Romney can't figure out a way to distance himself from his own policies, he better figure out a way to make his opponent(s) look a whole lot worse. The last person to be elected president who could separate himself from his own actions was Slick Willie. I guess he and Romney do share a barber.

206

If the actual Tea Party, was as narrow minded and pomous as the people on the Internet who claim to be the gate through which all conservative thought must pass, if the Tea Party was just that little group, there would be no such thing as a Tea Party.

The Tea Party is important because it is a big inclusive group.  The eye rollers are welcome, but they do not lead, nor do they matter much.

 

207 Right.  Romneycare sucks whether or not Romney is Mormon or Reformed Hindu or sacrifices virgin sprouts to Veganthulu.

Sorry, bud, but Romneycare is an extra income tax on those who can afford health insurance, but don't provide it.  It's a freeloader remedy.  Even if you don't like it as a policy choice, please tell me how it's any more leftist than socialist.  Moreover, it's not Obamacare.  Yes, both schemes have a mandate, but that's about it.

I'm really sick of idiots crying SOCIALISM!!!!!!11111 without knowing about the facts.  I'm also sick of the WSJ lamenting Romneycare as SOCIALISM!!!!!1111!!!! and claiming it ruined healthcare in MA when heathcare is in a shitty state in NY, and NJ, and many other places without Romneycare.  It's before/after in MA; and MA v. other states that tells the tale.  Also, pinning stuff he vetoed and that was added post-Romney is demagogic.

But there's solace:  your baseless Romneycare bashing + the rest of his portfolio simply makes him a conservative candidate that disaffected Dems will be willing to vote for.

Also, if Romney's LDS background, supposedly hated by "Those Christian Republicans" simply makes him more acceptable to Independents and disaffected Dems. 

Can I trademark and profit off of the term Romney Democrats^(TM)?

208 Ooops, the above sentence is supposed to read: "Even if you don't like it as a policy choice, please tell me how it's any more leftist than conservative"--where's the edit button?!

209

Regardles of the final ticket and order of precendence, It's gonna take an establishment republican and a tea party activist team to win.  I just hope they don't beat themselves up in the primaries. Romney/Palin or Bachman still makes the most sense given national party influences. 

I'm largely a Tea Party libertarian.  So my perfect ticket would be Palin/Perry but it's not going to happen.  The best of 2nd choices were outlined in #201 above. Romney/Palin or Bachman could easily win unless the LSM can convince the sheeple the economiy is improving.

Never doubt the stupidity of American voters.

RiverRat

210

PPIB,

the problems with Romneycare are three-fold.

First, it attacks a problem--free-loading--that turns out not to be the major driver of healthcare costs.  In other words, Romneycare doesn't work.  It costs too much without adding a whole lot of extra health security.

Second, Romneycare has a mandate.  Mandate's aren't absolute evil, but conservatives prefer freedom.

Third, Romneycare is too much like Obamacare to effectively criticize Obamacare.  Trust me, I get that state and federal are two different things, but that argument is too wonkish to use during a campaign.  Romneycare neuters Mitt Romney from effectively attacking the Obamacare mandates, e.g.

211 I view Romneycare as a  -2, but Romney, overall as a +7 (this after the vagaries of what portion of Romneycare can be pinned to Romney given that he vetoed part of it; that it was beefed up post-Romney; and that it's Massachusetts, and was on trending towards single payer; and the promise to get rid of it and offer waivers on Day 1).  I'm not saying it's a plus for Romney (though, it may gain some Dems/Independents while losing some conservatives), only that it's not His End.

Palin can propose a 50% corporate tax reduction and she will be deemed as EVIL.  Romney can propose the same thing, and he will be praised, or at least only minimally attacked--that's Romney.  He's too smart and too nice to be demonized.  THATS why he's the best shot at defeating JEF.

212 But at least Bachman is getting some respect from hate filled lefties now. Posted by: joeindc44 at June 16, 2011 11:42 AM (QxSug) Only because she's entertaining and actually believes all the crazy shit she says. The debate the other night sounded more like a John Birch Society event with Ron Paul as the keynote speaker.

213 He's too smart and too nice to be demonized. Romney is self-destructing on the trail as we speak. He lacks that je ne sais quois that Palin has, called a personality. But he is a man, so he will never have her negatives. Both are vanity candidates going nowhere.

214 if the Tea Party was just that little group They're significant enough to nominate a crank, but not enough to carry them over in a general election.

215

PPIB,

truth be told I think Palin could get away with a corporate tax cute more than Romney.  From him, it comes across as self-serving.

216 Bachman > Romney.

217 Test post