1 Yeah, the states are boned.

When the top muni bond analysts start talking about defaults that could reach 3 figures, it is time to listen.

2 yeah, the solution is fairly simple but painful. State employees were promised $X but the fund was only funded by .2X, so sorry, union thugs, your pension will be boop $.2X

3 Note to the reality-based community: Miracles don't happen.*

What are you talking about? We specifically indicated that miracles do happen. I mean did you think we healed Gabby with medicine?

4 Maybe California should buy like a hundred million PowerBall tickets?

5 The House needs to pass a bill post-haste indicating how states will be allowed to declare de-facto bankruptcy. The problem is, when California and New York start to go, we are going to have a full-blown financial crisis - the Republicans need to have indicated what the response should be, even if the Senate and Obama reject it.

6 Balanced Budget Amendments FTW!

7 110% voting coming from California, Illinois, New York, Michigan, and Massachusetts in 2012.

8

Note to the reality-based community: Miracles don't happen

Let's see how Jersey pans out, just electing an R was a small miracle, if he can pull us from the morass of public union greed, I'd be rather secure in calling it a miracle.

9 Posted by: rockhead at January 20, 2011 03:07 PM (RykTt)

Be careful.  They might try that.  When the jackpot is only $50 Million...

10

No New Bailouts Of The States

As it should be.

We shouldn't be held accountable for the fact they continue to elect the wrong people.

Every.Damn.Chance.They.Get.

11 In the immortal words of Rock Master Scott: 

The roof!  The roof!  The roof is on fire!

We don't need no water, let the motherf**ker burn!

Burn Motherf**ker, Burn.

12 Miracales are subjective.

13

We shouldn't be held accountable for the fact they continue to elect the wrong people.

Every.Damn.Chance.They.Get.

Worse is when they recognize their state is a hellhole, move someplace else, and immediately vote for the same idiot liberals who made their last state a hellhole.

14 ah...I remember the days when the libs were complaining about all the farm subsidies going to fly over country and how those states should be punished for their electoral infidelity from the one true party.

15 **Worse is when they recognize their state is a hellhole, move someplace else, and immediately vote for the same idiot liberals who made their last state a hellhole.*** damn, you've uncovered our plans regarding immigration and amnesty. xxoo, The libs. PS. your hate filled rhetoric makes me want to punch you, you violent extremist. PPS. you're just anti-intellect.

16 California isn't mostly dead, it's all dead. Sorry boys, I can't help you.

17 5 The House needs to pass a bill post-haste indicating how states will be allowed to declare de-facto bankruptcy.

Is it possible to put Illinois and Cali into receivership in order to keep the idiots who got them into this problem from making it worse?

18 deux ex machina    [sic]

pronounced "douche"?

19

I'm Pro Plate Tectonics in regards to California.

Sorry guys.  I want to fish Arizona Bay.

20

Agreed that the Republicans should have two answers to this mess:

1)  No bailouts for states or municipalities

2)  Here's the plan to handle the resulting chaos until it sinks in that there will be no more bailouts ______________ (insert plan here).

 

Make the guilty parties take ownership of the mess.  Liberal dems and their inability to say NO to new spending.

21 Both the liberal cesspool states of Illinois and California need to understand that actions have consequences.  Therefore, may they rot in hell for awhile as everyone leaves in reckless abandon as the left fucktards wonder what happened to their utopia.

22 I'm no financial wizard, so can someone answer this question? Where I live we have voted countless times for improvements to our local schools, or voted to have a new school built or something else and they relied on these bonds for the money.  I'm hearing about the municpal bond market crashing.  What will happen then? 

23

Exchange Programs for Alaska, Natives Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts. $9 million annual savings.

YOU'RE KILLING ME.

24 I'm hearing about the municpal bond market crashing.  What will happen then? 

Cannibalism, the rise of gay-boy berserker hordes, and you won't be able to borrow any more money.

25 My money is on God letting California and Illinois burn to the ground and save the miracles for sick little babies and puppies and stuff.

Let it burn, Big Man, let it burn.

26 22 I'm no financial wizard, so can someone answer this question? Where I live we have voted countless times for improvements to our local schools, or voted to have a new school built or something else and they relied on these bonds for the money.  I'm hearing about the municpal bond market crashing.  What will happen then? 

Posted by: jewells45 at January 20, 2011 03:16 PM (l/N7H)

We'll make even more money selling junked bonds. It's all good.For us.

27 Is it possible to put Illinois and Cali into receivership in order to keep the idiots who got them into this problem from making it worse?

I think there are a variety of legal and procedural hurdles for the receivership option (IIRC, that was the subject of an Ace post a few weeks ago).  Here is the Republican's plan:

First, create a legal process to allow states to renegotiate debts and union contracts in something akin to bankruptcy.

Second, forbid a congressional bailout of the states.

Third, forbid the Fed to buy statesÂ’ debt as part of a freelance Ben Bernanke bailout.

The Dems on the state and federal levels are going to fight this all the way to the Supreme Court, mark my words.

28

CA's final blow will be Obamacare, just you wait.

29 I wondered about that wording, especially since the current ongoing bailouts are part of the perpetual "temporary" stimulus program. Yes, I am talking about them buying worthless State bonds to the tune of tens of billions of dollars per year.

If you follow the link through you find that the Republican "leaders" are Jim DeMint:

DeMint: There Will Be No Bailout for the States

If there is one person the current RINO leadership hates worse than Sarah Palin it is Jim DeMint. DeMint does say "we" are going to do all of these things but in order to do it they are going to have to repeal that portion of the "Stimulus bill" that created the buy bonds program.  That will be difficult.

The other avenue is through zero funding from out of the House but the Fed may be able to get around that since they are pretty much an independent agency. Also, that last "buisness bill" that our new Republican in MA allowed to get a vote on by undoing the block gave them permanent permission to to bailout anything they see fit with NO CONGRESSIONAL action.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this; but I am not going to hold my breath.

30

What's really hilarious are the antics of the various public-sector pension boards as they frantically try to keep the numbers from spiraling off to infinity. 5-year "smoothing" averages, unrealistic investment-return expectations*, and ridiculous tax assumptions abound.

The main trick that states and municipalities are resorting to is treating the "best case scenario" as if it were the "middle case scenario". In other words, they're assuming that a result that is in fact highly unlikely is instead almost guaranteed. No one believes them -- they don't even believe it themselves -- but in the true tradition of spineless pols, this is just a way of kicking the can further down the road. Unfortunately, they've just about run out of road. The abyss looms. Not twenty years from now; right now. Many pension funds are already empty for all practical purposes; benefits are being paid out of tax receipts. If tax receipts dry up for whatever reason, the checks will simply stop coming.

*Most actuaries are expecting returns in the 7-8% range over a 20 year period. As the stock market has been largely flat over the past decade, and prospects for growth going forward are decidedly muted, it's far more likely that returns will -- at best -- average around 5%. Maybe even less. That translates into hundreds of billions of dollars worth of shortfalls down the road.

 

31 well, I hope that the first thing these states cut are police, firemen, and teachers. California cannot afford to lose the valuable services of $300K a year state jobs for wives of assemblymen.

32

Cannibalism, the rise of gay-boy berserker hordes, and you won't be able to borrow any more money.

The smart money is going into assless chaps, ammunition, and rat-jerky.

 

33 Posted by: jewells45 at January 20, 2011 03:16 PM (l/N7H)

Monty or others can probably give you a better answer, but I'd expect mostly nothing.

For one thing, those bonds have already been sold.  New bonds might be harder to sell, but the old ones would still be out there.

For another, debt is the same whether your a Corporation, a City, or a family (it gets a little weird with States and Countries, but I bet this applies there, too): if you are in good financial shape, it doesn't much matter what the general landscape is- you'll get better rates than your peers.  Now, if the muni-bond market crashes, that may mean you're selling bonds at 15% while your neighbor cities are selling them at 25%, but you'll be better off, relatively speaking.

I would suggest that this is the time for all cities and counties to look at the things they want to have bonds issued to cover, and determine if they're really that necessary.  If they are, they need to look at all their other spending, and cut anywhere they can before they even consider taking on more debt.

34 CA is where they let the kids build a campfire in the middle of the living room and then wail and gnash their teeth on the news, crying that they don't have any insurance and that they're so poor they barely had money enough to buy beer, with hope someone will pull out their wallets and pay to rebuild their house.  Fuck 'em. 

35 No bailouts for California and Illinois? Guess those extended mags will be necessary when the massive riots begin.

36 No bailouts for states. You want bailouts, give up statehood. Sounds fair to me.

37

Whats the difference between a municpal bond and a general obligation bond?  Or is there a difference? Damn, I wish I knew more about this stuff.

38 The smart money is going into assless chaps, ammunition, and rat-jerky.

The best bet is an 8000 gallon tanker of juice, and enough warrior women to guard it.

39 "...assless chaps..."

How many times does it have to be said?  Chaps are, by definition, "assless."

40

The smart money is going into assless chaps, ammunition, and rat-jerky.

 Posted by: Monty at January 20, 2011 03:21 PM (4Pleu)

Yeah, well.....Find me chaps that aren't assless......really.

41

 But not with state finances, I think you'll agree. Although the Democrats' Miracle of the Double-Counted $500 Billion might be considered as one down in their quest for sainthood.

Well... in some "Modern Mythologys" there are Dark or Black Saints... who must perform 3 Magical acts of Evil...

Not accusing... just saying...

42 36 No bailouts for states. You want bailouts, give up statehood. Sounds fair to me.

I'd agree.  If you get bailed out, then you're back at "territory" status until it's paid off. 

And by "paid off" I mean "PAID OFF", NOT "written off by Congress / the President because X candidate wants those EVs in November."

43 Chaps that aren't assless are leather PANTS.....I'm just sayin.

44 Why did Palin do this to the states? WHY??!!!!

45 OT:  Do you think the FBI's round-up of over 100 mobsters in NYC and beyond was timed to give Obama and Hu the chance to say "Look,  the US also rounds up citizens!"?

46 I have no sympathy for municipal bondholders.  Every investment is a risk, and considering the warning signs for this go back at least a decade...

47

CA's final blow will be Obamacare, just you wait.

Posted by: dudeinsantacruz at January 20, 2011 03:20 PM (FcnYT)

 

Maybe.  But first they will blow me.

48 Is there a mechanism for the Federal Reserve to bail out the states (i.e. that Congress can't stop)?

Also, What Should I Do?

49 Should I buy Gold? should I buy  Gold? Should I buy Gold? should I buy  Gold? Should I buy Gold? should I buy  Gold?

Help me Obi-Wan-Beckobi, you're my only hope!

50 You want bailouts, give up statehood. Can you imagine vast swaths of America administered by Congress? They can.

51

Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.

The Hell you say!

52 45 OT:  Do you think the FBI's round-up of over 100 mobsters in NYC and beyond was timed to give Obama and Hu the chance to say "Look,  the US also rounds up citizens!"?

Posted by: Dang at January 20, 2011 03:27 PM (TXKVh)

Yeah.... who knew that the old Italian Familys were part of the TEA Party movement...

I mean... what did they do, form a Militia or somthing???? Somthing got Holder's attention...

53 51

Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.

The Hell you say!

Posted by: Federal Employee at January 20, 2011 03:28 PM (PCGFQ)

Wait, I work for the government, I don't pay taxes, I make 'em bitch!

54

jewells45:

I think Muni bondholders are probably pretty safe in most cases. States will move heaven and earth not to default on their bond-debt. However, that debt-service will involve a lot of painful cuts that citizens (particularly those of a liberal persuasion) may find hard to swallow.

You are going to see deep and pervasive cuts in education and services. Municipalities are going to scrimp on things like road-repair, streetlights, snow removal, trash and sanitation, etc. State parks will close -- and if open, will be pretty much unsupervised as park rangers are laid off. Highway comfort-stations will close (hope you can hold it until the next town, or aren't averse to peeing by the side of the road). In short: your quality of life as a citizen of a given city or state is about to take a dive in a very real and up-close way. It's not clear to me that taxpayers will stand for this for very long, especially given that taxes will almost certainly go up -- and not just by a little, but by a lot. (See: Illinois.) You're going to be paying a lot more and getting a lot less.

In fine, this is the same dillemma as that being faced by Greece or Ireland right now -- except that States don't even have the option of reverting to their own currencies and then devaluing  to pay their debts. The only way they can dig out is a) cut spending, and b) tax everything they can for the maximum amount that the taxpayers will tolerate (and probably more).

 

55

Many states, especially California and Illinois, are still depending on the "deux ex machina" method

That's what they're counting on, isn't it?

56 Can you imagine vast swaths of liberal voters America administered by Congress deprived of electoral votes?

The real reason my pipe dream will never come to pass...

57 Posted by: Brett Favre at January 20, 2011 03:28 PM (vxZXK)

Ummm... I know there isn't one that Congress can't stop, because Congress can always just step in with a new law.  I think they've even ignored that piddling little injunction against ex post facto laws a time or two.

That said, I can't think of any way the fed could directly bail out a specific state at all.  Not that they couldn't just make one up, but I don't know of any currently on the table.

58

Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.

What about my legacy?

59 This is all about being addicted to OPM -- Other People's Money. The state (I live in CA, but insert your favorite here) has borrowed tremendous sums against taxpayers' credit and spent it foolishly. Now, they want to come to taxpayers and say, "pay back the amounts we borrowed."

Depending on how foolishly the money was spent, there are even restrictions that more money must be poured down the same rathole -- for instance, according to the California Constitution, public employee pensions get first dibs on any revenues, no matter what is needed for fire stations, police, and roads.

In theory, this means that unrealistic and thoroughly corrupt pensions, by themselves, could require tax rates that were outright confiscatory -- property taxes or income taxes at 100% -- before dollar one went to anything necessary.

Unfortunately, many of us live here or own property here -- and, while I'd love to have my neighborhood secede and join Texas -- that's not likely to change. So the big question is: when everything hits the wall, what's to keep them from taxing the ever-loving-crap out of this place? If it were only bondholders getting nailed, they shouldn't have lent the money anyway. If it were only the idiots in Sacramento, I'm pretty sure I could live without them. Even if were retirees  that took a hit (which includes my own parents), there'd still be a way forward. But if the plan says that the future has to pay for the excesses of the past, the natural question is: "what future?"

60 54

jewells45:

I think Muni bondholders are probably pretty safe in most cases. States will move heaven and earth not to default on their bond-debt. However, that debt-service will involve a lot of painful cuts that citizens (particularly those of a liberal persuasion) may find hard to swallow.

Posted by: Monty at January 20, 2011 03:31 PM (4Pleu)

Yep, just like GM bond holders. yep.

61 I wonder what the chances are of CA and IL going into bankruptcy.  And having all those unfunded pension agreements re-written.

62 In short: your quality of life as a citizen of a given city or state is about to take a dive in a very real and up-close way.

Unless you move to Texas.
Or, possibly, Oklahoma, but they suck.

Even here in TX we're looking at cuts to education and other such things.  I'm waiting for the outcry from my mom and brother about how they can't get kewl new toys for their class-rooms this year.

63 California need to be put into a receivership or some damn thing where the crooked public employee, teacher and fire/police unions get their pensions slashed. Let em live off of their savings and self-funded retirement plans while getting 10 cents on the dollar for an existing pension. It's the biggest rip off in history- retire at 50 with 90% of top pay and full medical and live for 30/40 more years. Screw that.

64 57 Can you imagine vast swaths of liberal voters America administered by Congress deprived of electoral votes?

The real reason my pipe dream will never come to pass...

So much THIS. 

Cali and Illinois are two of the biggest sure-things for Dems every 4 years.  Losing about 50-60 easy EVs like that means the Dems are screwed because they'd have to fight in battleground states like Florida PLUS make a hard run at big Republican states like Texas. 

There's absolutely no way they could win under those conditions short of running far to the right of their normal platform and, even then, no one will buy it given their party's leaders.

65 58

Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.

What about my legacy?

Posted by: Zombie Woodrow Wilson at January 20, 2011 03:32 PM (PCGFQ)

meh, check out Monmouth University in NJ. and the movie "Annie". Nice house, Woodie.

66

On the plus side, when the California economy tanks and benefits get slashed, all of the sexually liberated young women with arts and social science degrees are going to be desperate for cash.

The quality of porn in the next few years should be AMAZING...

67

Amtrak Subsidies. $1.565 billion annual savings.

Don't the the gubberment pull a train on your tax dollar.

68 There's a couple of more problems with this plan.  Mainly, a dem. prez. and a dem. majority in the senate.  Oh yeah, added to that is a fed reserve and the MFM squirming around inside Dear Leader's rectum.

69

Whats the difference between a municpal bond and a general obligation bond? 

Muni bonds are in different classes. I'm not an expert at this stuff either, but Muni bonds tend to fall into "general obligation" types (i.e., it goes into a genral-use kitty and is used to fund operations) or "revenue" bonds (i.e., to fund a specific project or site, like a sports stadium). "Revenue" bonds are generally used to fund a site or project that brings in fees or tax dollars somehow, while G.O. bonds fund day-to-day expenses and infrastructure type stuff. (Sports stadiums underwritten by a city will generally involve the issue of revenue bonds, for example, while a city may issue G.O. bonds to cover an unexpected shortfall in tax receipts, for example. Chicago is a particularly notorious city for issuing debt to cover bad tax receipts.)

 

70 66

On the plus side, when the California economy tanks and benefits get slashed, all of the sexually liberated young women with arts and social science degrees are going to be desperate for cash.

The quality of porn in the next few years should be AMAZING...

Posted by: Canadian Infidel at January 20, 2011 03:35 PM (GKQDR)

But where would we get the money for breast implants.

71

O/t: I can't figure out if I'm being slow today (w/ headcold) or whether it's a slow news day.

72 Posted by: Canadian Infidel at January 20, 2011 03:35 PM (GKQDR)

It seriously took 66 posts to get to this?  Whatever has become of Moron Nation?

73 66 I live near a UC campus- I like you're thinking. Time to buy a HD camera and a beret.

74 "Although the Democrats' Miracle of the Double-Counted $500 Billion might be considered as one down in their quest for sainthood." So if you add to that the miracle of 10 years taxation to cover 4 years of benefits in the health care monstrosity, they have 2 of the 3 miracles for canonization. Call the Pope.

75 Thanks Monty.  We just passed a big bond issue last year for roads, etc.  First time they haven't had their hand out for schools. My little burb has grown from a town of 20,000 in 1986 to almost 100,000.  We have always been a bedroom community and we have some of the highest property tax rates in Missouri.  We have always prided ourselves on our AAA schools, but we did nothing to try and draw any big business in.  Hell, we even ran off the big Pfizer plant down the road. We had the same mayor for over 20 years and she was an idiot.  We could have had a big Bass Pro Shop complex, but lost it to the city of Independence because the city's ridiculous rules and regulations drove people to look elsewhere.  Even my own company decided to rent an existing warehouse/office rather than build.  Time after timewe would hear of a big company looking to build here and that dumbass mayor and city council would blow the deal.

76 Cali and Illinois are two of the biggest sure-things for Dems every 4 years.  Losing about 50-60 easy EVs like that means the Dems are screwed because they'd have to fight in battleground states like Florida PLUS make a hard run at big Republican states like Texas.

The most elaborate version of my private daydream is California going territory in exchange for a bailout.  Of course no sane person would let that kind of electoral juggernaut back into the playpen, so I would cut it up three ways--South (border area), Coastal (LA/Frisco/granola country), and Inland (sane folks).

Dynamics and names of the new states are left as an exercise to the student.  I recommend lots and lots of popcorn.

77

My suggestion to California and Illinois: Go straight to Hell. Do not pass GO, do not collect 2 billion. Just kick the express elevator into overdrive and feel the black hole suction pulling you into a well earned oblivion. Adios, fucksticks.

78 Time to buy a HD camera and a beret.

Don't forget the monocle.

79 I posted this earlier this morning and it is hot on this topic:

Haley comes out of the shoot with budget cuts

Promises to work with the legislature on more needed cuts as well. But the Democommies are squealing because one of the cuts is for 10 million dollars funding for ETV and PBS.

hahahahahahaha, she has started on what we have been calling for Washington!

We have almost a billion dollar budget deficit this year. She has proposed what amounts to over 100 million in cuts so there will be about 800 million more to go. But she has led the way with a bunch of cuts.

The fight will be on in that the FDR Republican legislature here will once again want to raise sales taxes. That is the crap that got us in this mess to begin with.

If you put all your eggs in a sales tax basket and the economy goes to shit guess what happens.

80 It should be noted that defined benefit pensions have always been a problem. Union pensions are notoriously mobbed up, corporate pensions have caused dozens of companies to go under, and governments have raided public pensions for decades to fund frivolous current expenditures.

Whereas defined contribution plans (e.g. 401Ks, IRAs) merely have occasional Bernie Madoffs.

81 66 On the plus side, when the California economy tanks and benefits get slashed, all of the sexually liberated young women with arts and social science degrees are going to be desperate for cash. invade other states and vote for the same type of libtards, who took their previous State into oblivion, into office.  And spread all types of STDs around.

Made a small addition. Doesn't sound so great now, does it?

82 Bailouts for X are always, in reality, bailouts for Y.

E.g. bailout for General Motors was a bailout for the UAW. Bailout for banks was a bailout for bad borrowers.

Bailouts for states are bailouts for public service employee pension and benefit funds.

Also, in California's case, bailouts for the funds that feed, house, educate, and medicate citizens of Mexico who vote in our elections.

83 Looking forward to New York State's imminent insolvency.  I WANT FAIL. PUBLIC UNIONS MUST BE PUNISHED

84 "Read My Lips: No New Bailouts Of The States" Detroit hardest hit. There is already talk that the Detroit Public Schools may have to shut down half of their schools. Then again, why reward a school system with extra money, when they have had corruption to the point where food service workers, and clerical help have had access to school system checking accounts. Yup, food service workers writing checks to themselves. Oh, and the system bought 11 motorcycles. And the porkulus bill was a bailout of these systems, because states like Michigan funneled the stimulus money to schools, and municipalities.

85 On the plus side, when the California economy tanks and benefits get slashed, all of the sexually liberated young women with arts and social science degrees are going to be desperate for cash.

And they'll demand for the sake of Art that there be a scene of an abortion in every movie.  Yuck.

86 Long about that time, the Duke Boys started making a fortune off of making bootleg college porn and trucking in cigarettes from Arizona..

87 I live in Cali, let it burn.

88 Maybe California should buy like a hundred million PowerBall tickets?

I think you're onto something there, follow this logic.

1. The state already collects 50% of the proceeds from powerball sales
2. Then the state and feds take another ~40% of the winnings
3. If the state and feds bought all the tickets they would collect 50% + 40% plus the 60% for winning

Thus making a perpetual tax engine

89 OT: Uh-oh, Palin has killed two gov't workers in Miami. More t-shirts, stat! (twitter, breaking news, 2 cops)

90

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 20, 2011 03:37 PM (8y9MW)

That made me laugh. Thank you. I always need that on DOOM threads.

I will say, when the crap hits the fan, in America and Europe, I want Obama in office. Those morons wanted their messiah and are DESPERATE for him to have his big moment; let them have him when things crash..

91 On the plus side, when the California economy tanks and benefits get slashed, all of the sexually liberated young women with arts and social science degrees are going to be desperate for cash. invade other states and vote for the same type of libtards, who took their previous State into oblivion, into office.  And spread all types of STDs around.

Made a small addition. Doesn't sound so great now, does it?
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at January 20, 2011 03:43 PM
----------------

They can become mail-order brides of the excess Chinese bachelors who can't marry because all the baby girls have been aborted. Let them dare complain about living in a worker's paradise with free medical care, free of racism and regularly lauded by Tom Friedman.

92

Posted by: cthulhu at January 20, 2011 03:33 PM (kaalw)

 

Sorry.  I'm not shedding one tear for anyone that has been living in CA for more than five years.  You've known about your state government's insanity and almost-unbearable taxes all along but refused to pack up and move from your magnificent state when you could.  Too bad. 

 

   

93 Until Jerry Brown and the California legislature prove they can make the hard choices and cut the spending and reign in the public unions they will not get the taxes increase extensions they want in a special election in June.

But what do I know, I'm a math major drop out and I like Palin.

94 87 I live in Cali, let it burn.

And you know you want to come back to your native PA, mpfs, . 

95 Also, What Should I Do?

Posted by: Brett Favre at January 20, 2011 03:28 PM (vxZXK)

That's pretty good.....

96

This, folks, is the stuff of real civil wars. Let CA, IL, MI, NY and other slimy states be able to export their bad decisions to the other states and we will have a war.

I have wondered if a State files for bankruptcy, does that mean their electoral votes are still valid? Why should a dependent State be allowed the equal representation of an independent State? CA lost no electoral votes, but we all know it lost a sizeable number of its citizens these last 10 years. Why are illegals counted for the census, thus for congressional representation? 

Bottom line, what does a State have to lose for going bankrupt? It is not apparent to me that there is any sanction against bankrupting yourself as a State.

97 I live in California, I like Palin and I was raised in a home that had wheels under it.


whew. feels good to get that off my chest.

98 You've known about your state government's insanity and almost-unbearable taxes... What are you talking about? We haven't paid for any of it yet. That's your job.

99 not one red cent!!!!!

100

Rahm Emanuel on Deus Ex Machina pension reform on WLS radio this morning.

Start listening at 14:50 for Rahm to spin his magic.

"On another issue, Emanuel told Don and Roma he does not favor doing away with guaranteed pensions for city workers, even though the city pension system is bankrupt. Emanuel says the city is guilty of underfunding the pension system for many years.

"I want that pension there, and I want it on a stable financial footing. I accept the fact that for 20 years, the city hasn't held up it's side of the bargain. Let's work in honesty and be honest with each other, and in common agreement that we want to preserve the pension, which is what I wanna do."

Emanuel was not specific about exactly how he wants to reform the pension system, but he vows he won't raise property taxes to do it."

No property tax increase. No city income tax. No sales tax increase. No getting tough with the unions. Just magical "I'll fix it". The sad thing is, all these union goons will believe him. Fools. When it comes to speaking in platitudes, I think Rahm may be better than Obama. I think he's counting on Obama to bail him out.

101 95 87 I live in Cali, let it burn.

And you know you want to come back to your native PA, mpfs, . 
Posted by: Kratos

Quelle horror!!!!

102 Detroit hardest hit. There is already talk that the Detroit Public Schools may have to shut down half of their schools.

Posted by: nerdygirl at January 20, 2011 03:44 PM (O9utF)

Might just as well - they'll still have twice what they need.  Most of the "students" just want to flunk out and go on welfare anyway.  They have what - a 25% graduation rate now?  That means 75% of those attending don't really need to be there.  I say we should abolish truancy laws, sterilize all the drop outs, and cut food stamps to the bare minimum survival level.  Then as they die off at least they won't be replaced with more of their kind. 

103
Okay, if you're religious, I'll concede they might happen. But not with state finances, I think you'll agree.

I'm still waiting for the God of Abraham, the God of Issac and God of Jacob rain millions of paper dollars on my head. Miracles may occur, but they're generally not of the immediate financial sort.

104 sifty,
Me likes you.

105

One of these days I'm going to do a post on why defined-benefit pensions are such a catastrophe.

The usual complaint from a recipient is, "Oh, but I only get $30K per year! Blame the fatcat Wall Street bankers, not poor me! I paid in everything I'm taking out!"

Well...not so much, especially when you're talking a public-sector worker. Most contributors to defined-benefit pensions only contribute about 5% of their paycheck (in some cases, they contribute zero). Over a 30-year span, that equates to about five years of retirement income. (Maybe.)

So let's do some basic math. Let's say that Joe Schmoe retires from the Department of Transgender Social Assimilation after a 30-year tenure at a final salary of $80K per year. By most pension accounting methods, he'll be making about 2/3 of that amount every year for the rest of his life in retirement -- i.e., around $60K per year, more or less. Let's say that Joe is 60 when he retires. Actuarially, Joe is likely to live another 30 years or so -- which means that his total pension obligation is $1.8 million. Guaranteed (and probably inflation-adjusted, too.) Joe did not pay in anywhere near what he is going to be taking out, and neither did anyone else. Multiply Joe's case by about five million people, and you begin to see the scope of the problem.

But wait! It gets better. If Joe is a typical public-sector worker, his healthcare in retirement is also guaranteed for life. And the total cost of that benefit (which States do not by law have to account for) could run as much as two or three times his pension benefit. So humble old Joe, who makes a measly $60K a year in retirement, is actually costing the state (or municipality) upwards of $5 million dollars if he lives for thirty years after he retires. (And that's in present-day dollars; scale upwards as necessary for inflation.)

Meanwhile, the average private-sector schmuck gets whatever they've socked away in their 401(k) or Roth plan (which averages out to about $60K or so at retirement). Do you know what the yearly return on a $60K investment is right now? About three grand, more or less. So that "measly" $60K that humble Joe is making -- guaranteed -- looks pretty sweet in comparison.

 

106 Now, now, Detroit was promised some of the Obama "stash" money.

107 Hey, we don't need none of your bail-outs! Our state is growing! 120 new jobs! Of course, we had to give 'em tax credits to come here! Check it out!
http://tinyurl.com/4uf77v2

108 AllenG (Dedicated Tenther): "Even here in TX we're looking at cuts to education and other such things."

Texas has some serious obligations. They'll be met but, as you note, it'll be painful. I was reading the other day about the Dallas Trinity River project. Dallas is (re)developing the Trinity and is constructing bridges. A "signature" bridge is partially built and was heavily dependent on earmarks. That funding stopped so the construction stopped. This bridge costs "$140 million more than a plain-vanilla version designed by state engineers."

Ridiculous. It's a fucking bridge, but, apparently, we're so burdened with superfluous cash that we can throw hundreds of millions of dollars for decorations around like it's an Alex Rodriguez contract.

Texas buys Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" and Alaska buys Texas' "Signature Bridge." You almost have to be glad seeing everything come crashing down so this insanity won't continue.

109 ZeroHedge reported yesterday that Vallejo CA is attempting to pay muni bond holders 5 cents on the dollar in bankruptcy proceedings

The good little lefties will cheer "fuck the Wall Street greedy bastards, they're lucky to get anything back" until they realize that their trust fund and mommy's trust fund is heavily tied up in munis

110

Shifty,

It must have been tough to breath with that trailer on your chest.

111 Kiyosaki (sp? The real estate Rich Guy schtick guy) actually had a really good article about the loss of the defined-benefit pension.

112 Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at January 20, 2011 03:52 PM (1hM1d)

You know, when you get down to it, most of the miracles had a dark side (yes, fellow Christians, I'm joking, just roll with it):

The majority of miracles in the Old Testament ended in someone's death (or lots of someones).  Even the "nice" ones in the New Testament are kind of harsh though:  Water into Wine?  Think of the hangovers the next morning. 
Feeding the 5000 (or the 3000, which was similar)? How would you have liked to be one of the desiples on KP?
Healing the man carried by his friends? "Dude?  You couldn't have done that BEFORE we climbed on the roof?"

Really, I'm not sure what so great about miracles anyway...

113 In Soviet America, states bailout you.

114

Whats the difference between a municpal bond and a general obligation bond?  Or is there a difference? Damn, I wish I knew more about this stuff.

Posted by: jewells45 at January 20, 2011 03:24 PM (l/N7H)

Monty's answer was pretty good, but I thought I'd offer a slightly different way to remember it.  A Revenue Bond is paid back through the revenue generated by the project the bond funded.  A General Obligation Bond is paid back by the taxing power of the "municipality". 

Both types are considered Muni bonds.

115 On the plus side, when the California economy tanks and benefits get slashed, all of the sexually liberated young women with arts and social science degrees are going to be desperate for cash. invade other states and vote for the same type of libtards, who took their previous State into oblivion, into office.  And spread all types of STDs around.

Made a small addition. Doesn't sound so great now, does it?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at January 20, 2011 03:43 PM (9hSKh)

 

A small addendum should be added to the House bills blocking funds to these states should read:  Any persons moving from said states must register with the election offices in their new home of record with the understanding that they cannot vote in any election until fiscal reprobations of their prior home of record (state) has been reconciled.

116 In Blythe.


Living in/under that trailer made me the paranoid, bitter, bible-clinging disappointment to my wife's mother that I am today.

117 In Soviet America, economic system collapses you!

118 Dammit.

119 Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 20, 2011 03:55 PM (swuwV)

I remember that fight.  And was glad, when the proposition to do that passed, that I don't live in Dallas proper.  What the papers don't mention is that the Trinity is gross.  Like, green slime on the river most parts of the year, gross.  And it stinks.  It's one of only two places in the Metroplex where I always have to have the recirc on for my car A/C no matter what time of day or year.

So they're spending millions of dollars on creating "an outdoor living space" or some such drivel, and no one will ever use it.  Can you imagine trying to have a picnic when you have to wear a gas-mask and be afraid of the mutant toads?

120 Let's hope so.  Though candidates like Jerry Brown were elected precisely because their voters anticipated bailouts in return.

121 We forgot to blame Bush. I am deeply disappointed that this has not happened yet !

122 No bailouts for California and Illinois? Guess those extended mags will be necessary when the massive riots begin. Posted by: Chicago Jedi at January 20, 2011 03:23 PM

Either you read my mind or you read my post (yesterday). I want a big mag for when the looting begins. I was talking about the flood of Mexican refugees when their government falls, but that's damn near the same thing as the collapse of the California state agencies that are giving my money to citizens of Mexico.

123 Texas needs to cut $12-15B and is doing it the old fashioned way, and without touching the $9B we've invested in the Rainy Day Fund.  That's just how we roll down here.

It would really help if unemployed Yankees and illegal aliens from Mexico would quit showing up by the millions, though.

124 We have always been a bedroom community and we have some of the highest property tax rates in Missouri.
Posted by: jewells45 at January 20, 2011 03:42 PM (l/N7H)

You from Blue Springs?  Lee's Summit?

125 Posted by: Thinking things over at January 20, 2011 04:04 PM (8/DeP)

It would.  However, since that's unlikely to happen...

That's why I keep trying to recruit members of Moron Nation (and other people of whose politics I approve) to become Texans.  I'm trying to off-set the liberal vote which keeps moving in.

126 angler- Lees Summit or as I am fond of calling it, Lees Scummit.

127 When the food stamps and welfare checks stop arriving, the illegals and the other moochers are gonna need a road stake. They'll figure it is only right to take whatever they need for the road to their new home from the taxpayers that failed them. Social Justice.

128 #116

What, no gun?

129 It would really help if unemployed Yankees and illegal aliens from Mexico would quit showing up by the millions, though.
Posted by: Thinking things over at January 20, 2011 04:04 PM

What you need to do is tell both that Texas is a hellhole full of Palin loving racist teabaggers who shoot each other for fun.

Tell them Paul Krugman is right, stay in the utopian Northeast

If they say who the hell is Krugman, tell them Seth McFarlane is right

130

Worse is when they recognize their state is a hellhole, move someplace else, and immediately vote for the same idiot liberals who made their last state a hellhole.

Posted by: Ian S. at January 20, 2011 03:11 PM (p05LM)

Oh, like that would ever happen.

 

131 They'll figure it is only right to take whatever they need for the road... Good thing all the exit routes were recently repaved with Stimulus funds.

132 When the food stamps and welfare checks stop arriving

This is one place I hope cuts come.  I think I've mentioned once before that a family of 4 on the Texas Food Assistance program (formerly: Food Stamps, now: The Lone Star Card) get $800.00/month for groceries.  They're probably also on WIC (which, I think, is another $100.00/week or so).  So, these people on financial assistance are eating better than my family and me.  We spend $600.00/month on 4 people and 2 big dogs (and dog food is frickin' expensive.  Jeez.  It's almost as bad as diapers).

133 Greece: "We will burn down your cities".

This is the plan.  Spooky Dude has the solution ready.

134

Oh, like that would ever happen.

 Posted by: Colorado at January 20, 2011 04:09 PM

Mommy, is it really true that Republicans used to kill black people here in Vermont? Where did they go?

135 I have resolved not to mention my various means of family, home, and self defense on the internets for fear of Uncle Janet Chainwalletano.
Even though I love them in all their steely blue oiled evil hippy-scaring deliciousness.

136

 When the food stamps and welfare checks stop arriving, the illegals and the other moochers are gonna need a road stake. They'll figure it is only right to take whatever they need for the road to their new home from the taxpayers that failed them. Social Justice.

And don't think that Dear Leader and his regime aren't hoping for that.  They need chaos.

137 "Is it possible to put Illinois and Cali into receivership in order to keep the idiots who got them into this problem from making it worse?"

I'm for that, and I live in California. (Didn't vote for the idiots in charge, of course, but I'm outnumbered.)

138 We got the remedy and the playbook for that.

139

 A Revenue Bond is paid back through the revenue generated by the project the bond funded.

In theory, but in practice this is rarely the case since the projects in question rarely bring in enough revenue to pay the bond issue. (Sports stadiums and convention centers are good examples of this.) As a practical matter, bonds are usually covered through tax receipts, which is why Muni bond holders are getting nervous -- that vaunted "tax power" may not prove sufficient to cover the shortfalls in a lot of places. You can't realistically jack up taxes by 100 or 200 percent and expect the taxpayers to placidly accept it.

 

140 Nice to know that my state will be taxed to pay the credit card bills for our drunken unemployed brother-in-law California.

141 Let's say that Joe is 60 when he retires. Actuarially, Joe is likely to live another 30 years or so Monty, is that really a valid assumption? That he'll live until 90 or so? 81 seems more likely.

142 109 ZeroHedge reported yesterday that Vallejo CA is attempting to pay muni bond holders 5 cents on the dollar in bankruptcy proceedings
Posted by: kbdabear at January 20, 2011 03:56 PM (vdfwz)

Yeah, I saw that. Unfortunately, they screwed the pooch on the story -- it's unsecured creditors that are getting $0.05, not bondholders. That means the janitorial service, the city's gas station accounts, the office supplies company.....

143 AllenG (Dedicated Tenther): "What the papers don't mention is that the Trinity is gross. Like, green slime on the river most parts of the year, gross..."

Seen it. Yes, the artist renderings don't quite measure up to reality.

Whenever I've seen the Trinity, it's pretty much an open field with a tiny, stagnant tributary hidden within it. Oh sure, in the spring flood season, it'll test its banks and the muddy runoff will flow, but the rest of the year (it's hot-n-dry Texas after all), it's a drainage ditch.

It's not a particularly good turd to polish. I'm glad Texas won't have the public's funds to give it it's final sheen.

144 "Is it possible to put Illinois and Cali into receivership in order to keep the idiots who got them into this problem from making it worse?"

Yes, it's called bankruptcy.  While it's going on, the trustee will pay only what's necessary (and I mean necessary), while everything else gets divvied up between secured and non-secured creditors.  Important note: union pensions and service contracts are not secured creditors.

145 Whaddya mean, 'no bailouts?'  Where else are you gonna find a Moonbeam?

146
It's not a particularly good turd to polish. I'm glad Texas won't have the public's funds to give it it's final sheen.


And what's wrong with Sheen?!?  I like hookers, by the way.

147 Important note: union pensions and service contracts are not secured creditors.

Posted by: Thinking things over at January 20, 2011 04:15 PM (8/DeP)

Yeah, ask the Chrysler bondholders how that worked out.

 

148 I didn't build the damned FEMA camps for nothin', crackas!

We'll put the "differently thinking" in safe, secure camps where they can work off the debt by being trucked around to various public works projects to dig ditches.

149

Monty, is that really a valid assumption?

A lot depends on how much medical science improves, but I think it's an entirely valid assumption. We've been averaging about 2 years per decade since the 1970's in lifespan (at least the dudes; women live about 5 years longer). Some of that may be attributable to the decline in smoking, but a lot is also due to better medical technology and better geriatric care. (And even if Joe only lives to be 80, if he has diabetes or some other chronic condition, it'll have the same essential financial effect as if he lived in good health until 90 or so.)

 

150 Important note: union pensions and service contracts are not secured creditors.

I thought I read that the California SC had ruled that pensions were better than secured creditors.  Indeed, that they were Primary Creditors* that must be paid regards of any other expenses.



*I don't know if that's a real term.

151 Unfortunately, there's no provision for a state to go through bankruptcy. Individuals and corporations -- and, BTW, cities are corporations -- are, but states aren't.

152 And don't think that Dear Leader and his regime aren't hoping for that.  They need chaos.

I wonder with all the "suburban sprawl" (the lefties hate so much) if the haves and the havenots are segregated enough to minimize chaos some.

153

Emanuel was not specific about exactly how he wants to reform the pension system, but he vows he won't raise property taxes to do it."

No property tax increase. No city income tax. No sales tax increase. No getting tough with the unions. Just magical "I'll fix it". The sad thing is, all these union goons will believe him. Fools. When it comes to speaking in platitudes, I think Rahm may be better than Obama. I think he's counting on Obama to bail him out.

I respectfully disagree here.  He absolutely plans on running down to his Unicorn farm where they fart clean air, piss the perfect fuel and shit gold and collect everything he needs to pay off the unions.

154

we may have to sell Illinois on the white slavery market, I doubt if we'll get much though, who wants to buy a state full of Union layabouts and troublemakers?

155 151 Unfortunately, there's no provision for a state to go through bankruptcy. Individuals and corporations -- and, BTW, cities are corporations -- are, but states aren't. Posted by: cthulhu at January 20, 2011 04:20 PM (kaalw) So, what do we use as a paradigm? Argentina? Serious question, can a state repudiate its debts?

156 RE: Monty@149,

So shorter lifespans via Obamacare actually do have an upside after all. I wonder if the House considered this before their vote?

157 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 20, 2011 04:10 PM (8y9MW)

I'm sorry, but that is fucking disgusting. $1,200/month? I can feed four people very, very well on half that. Steak, seafood, lots of good stuff. Of course I actually make my food and don't buy packaged shit, but still!

158 Why can't I remember to change my socks?

159 Yeah, ask the Chrysler bondholders how that worked out.

That's a great point.  And that's why, in my mind anyway, Obama's meddling in the GM bankruptcy is the worst thing he's done as President.  He basically told businessmen that you cannot rely on your contracts, and that at any old time the government can (and unfortunately, will) intervene and screw over secured interests in favor of non-secured political cronies.

Who in their right mind would put a penny of their money into anything likely to be touched by the government?  No one, and hence the persistent economic stagnation.  And they wonder why corporations are "hoarding" cash.

160 I wonder with all the "suburban sprawl" (the lefties hate so much) if the haves and the havenots are segregated enough to minimize chaos some. Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 20, 2011 04:21 PM (tf9Ne) To take the DC area as an example, that'll work just fine if you're in Howard County or Loudoun County, not so great if you're in Alexandria or Prince George's.

161

I left California after 10 years because no matter how conservative my vote, I was surrounded by idiots. A vote in California is useless: if you vote conservative, there aren't enough of you to actually win (I still voted, even though I knew it was a lost cause.) If you vote idiot democrat, then you probably can't read the ballot anyway.

We moved to NC just in time to help the tea party flip the state assembly for the first time in a years. I like to think that my vote and my money actually count here...

162 Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 20, 2011 04:21 PM (tf9Ne)

Where's Kratos when we need him!

163

A lot depends on how much medical science improves, but I think it's an entirely valid assumption. We've been averaging about 2 years per decade since the 1970's in lifespan (at least the dudes; women live about 5 years longer). Some of that may be attributable to the decline in smoking, but a lot is also due to better medical technology and better geriatric care. (And even if Joe only lives to be 80, if he has diabetes or some other chronic condition, it'll have the same essential financial effect as if he lived in good health until 90 or so.)

 

You're forgetting something.  When the seas rise 0.6'' from AGW and all those millions of people on the east and west coasts drown, we won't have to worry about any of this anymore.  We'll be home free. 

 

164 The havenots in California all have newer cars than the haves. Believe me, they'll get to the neighborhood they want to rob.

Getting back from some neighborhoods may take some doing...

165

Greece: "We will burn down your cities".

Let's start with Detroit.

Objections?

166 CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative),

You have socks? Lucky bastid.

167

 Important note: union pensions and service contracts are not secured creditors.

In California (and I think in Illinois as well), pensions are "vested benefits" and are considered very senior debt by the courts. In California, they are protected by the state constitution. Therefore, it's unlikely that they could be discharged without some alteration to the state consitution itself -- even a bankruptcy probably wouldn't help. (Though it would help them to discharge the medical benefits, which are not so protected.)

Some municipalities are actually paying pension benefits out of current tax receipts. Madness it may be, but it reflects how senior they consider that debt burden to be. If it comes down to paying bondholders or paying pensioners...it's gonna be a dogfight either way.

 

168

Posted by: Monty at January 20, 2011 04:25 PM (4Pleu)

That's gotta hurt the GM bondholders.

169 Of course the states will get bailed out.  The Federal Reserve will just buy the bonds and bail out the banks.  With your money.  And your progeny. 

No congressional vote needed.  But you are on the hook.

170 cut it up three ways--South (border area), Coastal (LA/Frisco/granola country), and Inland (sane folks).

Dynamics and names of the new states are left as an exercise to the student.  I recommend lots and lots of popcorn.

Border area: Greater Tijuana
Coastal: Themeparkland
Inland: El Infierno

171 1. We tax the productive until they leave.
2. We regulate business until they leave.
3. We acquire intractable liability in the form of public pensions.
4. We give the "unfortunate" huge bags of cold hard cash to blow at Indian Casinos
5. ?????
6. PROFIT!!!!

172 165

Greece: "We will burn down your cities".

Let's start with Detroit.

Objections?

Could we tell the difference after they're done?  I'm sure it would just look like an average Devil's Night.

173 Municipalities are expressly provided for in the bankruptcy code.  Tell every fucking one of them "not one more state dollar until you file," join the actions, then take down the obligations piece meal.

Also, serious question here: how does the Cali Constitution trump the federal bankruptcy code?  There's no special union protection for unions in the code IIRC (bearing in mind I studied this subject for all of one semester in the mid-90s and don't practice in this field).  Thanks for the knowledge.

174 we may have to sell Illinois on the white slavery market, I doubt if we'll get much though, who wants to buy a state full of Union layabouts and troublemakers?

Maybe they could be sold for scrap or converted to oil.

175 OT: The Rhetoric, it burns!

176  And don't think that Dear Leader and his regime aren't hoping for that.  They need chaos.

I wonder with all the "suburban sprawl" (the lefties hate so much) if the haves and the havenots are segregated enough to minimize chaos some.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 20, 2011 04:21 PM (tf9Ne)

 

Actually, I have thought of that.  But there's two things that may affect your premise.  One, I may live in the suburbs, but I work in deep "have-not" territory.  Two, most of those "have-nots" have cars and can drive to the "have" neighborhoods.

177 Getting back from some neighborhoods may take some doing...

I live just outside a town of less 300 and 50 miles from the metro so I  should have some warning before the get to me. I'd like a newer car so it might work out ok.

178 More Community Organizers!  That's the answer.  Hire more Community Organizers!

179

Dear Canada,

  Remember the 2004 election map showing United States of Canada and Jesusland?  You're welcome to stake your claim.  Whatever you don't take, we'll sell to Mexico. 

 

180 most of those "have-nots" have cars and can drive to the "have" neighborhoods.

I'm not sure they have the initiative to.  Remember, in the LA riots the rioters destroyed their own neighborhoods but didn't really venture beyond them.  (Even though it would've been high-larious if carloads of armed gangbangers had started showing up at Hollywood stars' homes).

181

Also, serious question here: how does the Cali Constitution trump the federal bankruptcy code?

States are sovereign entites, and are not bound by the bankruptcy code. (It's actually a question of constitutional law.) The Federal Government does not have the power to compel a sovereign state to declare bankruptcy (in fact, legally, a sovereign state can't go bankrupt -- though obviously this is a legalism). There are deep and intractable questions of how a state would go into receivership without violating the "equal representation" rights of its citizens under the Constitution.

If a State could not by law secede during the Civil War, then by law how can a state now leave the Union under a bankrupcy? Or if it is to stay in the Union but be stripped of governing power, how would that be in any way a Constitutional construct? Or if it is to stay in the Union and retail the traditional powers of a sovereign State, how is that commensurate with being bankrupt?

 

182 Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at January 20, 2011 04:14 PM (swuwV)

The West Fork, however, is pretty nice.  But then, as the mayor of Fort Worth once remarked to the then mayor of Dallas, "Fort Worth has better rich people."

Posted by: Political Purist at January 20, 2011 04:23 PM (LH6ir)

I could be wrong on the WIC amount, but I'm guessing $100/wk is a pretty good bet.  And, yes, I feed my entire family on approximately 1/2 what "the poor" in Texas get from my property taxes.

And that doesn't even begin to count Medicaid and other assistance.

Whenever people say Texas is a "low services" state, my mind boggles- I really can't imagine subsidizing the poor any more than we already do...

183 So, what do we use as a paradigm? Argentina? Serious question, can a state repudiate its debts? Posted by: joncelli

Naked Capitalism pointed to a 2006 SCOTUS case Central Virginia Community College v. Katz that found states can't claim sovereign immunity to dispose of claims. Bad decision of course (the majority cited the Article of Confederation,) but apparently there's nowhere to hide if that ruling isn't challenged.

184

Note to the reality-based community: Miracles don't happen.*

* Okay, if you're religious

In the parable of the talents (1 Talent = about $250,000 modern day dollars) , it covers a few ways the servants held account of their masters money. The "dumbest" of the servants just saved the money (not bank style, coffee can style) and returned it when the master came calling; he was rebuked for not getting off his ass and investing and making some money. The option not covered was the California Public Servant, when challenged by the master for his cash, just tells him "Sh*t, I blew that wad on hookers, booze, and blow a while ago, when do I get more?" 

I don't think God is in the disposition to give California more than he already has.

185

Ace, even for religiously-minded folks, miracles have to occur in the context of reality.  A sick person might miraculously recover (see Cong. Giffords), but not really just by doing nothing, let alone actively trying to make things worse.

It would not be a miracle for states to recover financially without any collapse, it would be a fantasy.  God's not levitating cars off of people, but he just might give someone strength to lift one.    There's no one in state government who's trying to help, they're just sitting around waiting for the impossible.

With their thumbs in their posteriors.

186 Personally, I am sick of paying for California's pot habit, for their universities who's professors get millions in funding to study fruit fly farts and global warming while making students exponentially dumber than before they went there, ... oh... never mind.

They had just better stay put in their collapsing state. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

187 Entonces un milagro sucede !

188 OT: The Rhetoric, it burns! Posted by: garrett at January 20, 2011 04:33 PM

Woo-hoo! She got cancer and then ran around helping people, the slut! Wait, are we talking about this Kleefisch teabagging bitch or Elizabeth Edwards?

189 well, according to the hate-filled lefty grand unification theory, I bet that none of this would've happened if bush hadn't cut taxes...oh wait, obama extended them. hmm. can they blame MBS's or Stegall Glass? Because surely paying state employees $100K a year to sit around in rubber rooms isn't the issue. how could it be?

190

Just keep in mind that to pay off general obligation bonds, the issuing city or county or state is required by law to raise taxes to cover debt service. They'll do it because they are forced to.

Most stadiums aren't financed solely with the revenues of the stadium. Some levy a sales tax on the surrounding area on the basis that the stadium increases sales nearby. It is a very shaky assumption, but folks like they bread and circuses, so they suspend disbelief and approve them.

191 With their thumbs in their posteriors.

Posted by: s/moron at January 20, 2011 04:42 PM (UaxA0)

 

You're just so civil. 

192 Burn baby burn! - Fiscal inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mother down
Burn baby burn! - Fiscal inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mother down
Burnin'!

193

^{Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at January 20, 2011 04:43 PM (pb/PX)}

the fact that, 'pulled a train',made a headline at Malkin's site is enough to make today a great news day.

194 Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

195 I'm beginning to feel glad that Brown and Newsom won here in California. These next four years will kill Newsom's political career (and possibly his wine business) and loose all hell on the Dems.

As usual, gag, who/what will run as a Republican in 2014? Another out-of-state CEO who hasn't a spark of passion for the state or conservative ideology, or a clue what they think about illegal aliens, but hankers for another line on their resume of successful turnarounds.

196 Oh, great. Another dump on California thread.

197 Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

Posted by: Rula California at January 20, 2011 04:48 PM (ZtwUX)

That wasn't Rula Lenska, it was Kelly LeBrock.

198 the fact that, 'pulled a train',made a headline at Malkin's site is enough to make today a great news day.

Careful, you'll offend Ann Althouse once she looks that up on Urban Dictionary.

199 193, I saw the pic.  All aboard!!!!

200 Until Jerry Brown and the California legislature prove they can make the hard choices and cut the spending and reign in the public unions they will not get the taxes increase extensions they want in a special election in June.

But what do I know, I'm a math major drop out and I like Palin.

Posted by: mpfs at January 20, 2011 03:48 PM (iYbLN)

Actually, they won't get it either way. I think the last round of votes on Props showed that the state has to live on what it has - nothing that gave the state money in any form passed, failing 65-35 more or less

201

the fact that, 'pulled a train',made a headline at Malkin's site is enough to make today a great news day.

Posted by: garrett at January 20, 2011 04:46 PM (O9qpI)

Not only that, but she linked to the UrbanDictionary just in case you didn't know what that meant!!!  Banner day in the blogosphere.

202 They had just better stay put in their collapsing state. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

Oh. F* you. It's not my fault it's F*ked up. And I intend to execute

NOUN-PLAN:
LABEL-TITANIC:
SUBCATEGORY; RAT-ON-LIFEBOAT

as soon as financially feasible, or earlier, if things fall apart too much. The trick is to go somewhere where the libbies don't want to go. (OBTW You smug F*cks in Texas, that's the next progressive target. Have fun!!!)

203

You're just so civil. 

Posted by: Soona



I can butt try.

204

This debt situation is all starting to remind me of watching deer walking unconcerned through the cougar-chewed bones of their brethren. Their time is coming, but they just walk on, grazing their way to oblivion. Their heads jerk up every so often to check the horizon, and then drop down to the grass again.

Meanwhile the temporarily sated cougar sleeps, and waits for the moonless night.

205 Oh, great. Another dump on California thread.
Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at January 20, 2011 04:49 PM

Satire, or Memorex?

206

That wasn't Rula Lenska, it was Kelly LeBrock.

Posted by: nickless at January 20, 2011 04:50 PM (MMC8r)

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

207 Posted by: MikeTheMoose© at January 20, 2011 04:53 PM (0q2P7)

Thus my never-ceasing recruitment records.  I figure we need 2 sane people for every liberal who moves here.

208

"If a State could not by law secede during the Civil War, then by law how can a state now leave the Union under a bankrupcy? Or if it is to stay in the Union but be stripped of governing power, how would that be in any way a Constitutional construct? Or if it is to stay in the Union and retail the traditional powers of a sovereign State, how is that commensurate with being bankrupt?"

Solvent States can secede Constitutionally. They just can't escape the grasp of the envious, greedy empire builders at the Fed. Now the question is a broke dick state seceding. From a practical point of view who wants them back, much less what empire they could represent. Secession is still Constitutional. It would have to be as a term of volitional/consensual contract. The real question is, as a member to the contract, are member States required to pay their bills in order to be recognized at the Federal level? Particulary in exercising their duties in spending Federal monies?

We have already seen one Senator sell his vote for cash - Nebraska - so if the Senate has Senators from broke dick States lobbying, what protections do the solvent States have in having their representation not be undermined by the beggars? 

Common sense says they return to territorial status. Are we really going to colonize the rest of America to support the Padron's of the urbanistas? If so, we will look like Mexico in one generation.  

209

just in case you didn't know what that meant!!!  Banner day in the blogosphere.

Oh, I caught that, too.

210 Just wait, pretty soon we will get into Social Security and Medicare reform on top of some of these states taking it in the fart box. It is going to be a long hot summer.

211 Oh, great. Another dump on California thread.
Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at January 20, 2011 04:49 PM

It wouldn't happen if that state didn't bring this shit on itself.  Really......

212 Inflation? What inflation? Who are you going to believe, my pretty data charts compiled by experts or your lying credit card statements?

Food Inflation Comes To America: General Mills, Kraft And Kellogg Hike Prices On Selected Food Products

213 The state, the state, the state is on fi-ah.

214

Have relatives in CA or IL?  Here's what's in store for you:

Clark:  I can't believe you're standing here in my living room, Eddie.  Never thought the day would come.

Eddie:  Yeah, I'm excited about it too.

Clark:  So, when did you get the tenement on wheels?

Eddie:  Oh, that uh, that there's an RrrrVvvv. Yeahup.  Yeahup.  I borrowed it off a buddy of mine.  He took my house.  I took the RrrrVvvv.  It's a gooood looking vehicle, ain't it?

Clark:  Yeah it looks so nice parked in the driveway.

Eddie:  Yeah it sure does.  But, don't you go fallin' in love with it now, because, we're takin' it with us when we leave here next month [after the economy recovers].

Clark:  [spit take]

215 Mystery Train

216

Meanwhile the temporarily sated cougar sleeps, and waits for the moonless night.

Posted by: Meremortal at January 20, 2011 04:53 PM (IqTwj)

 

But wait!  Nearby walks a hunter.  What's this?  He's mumbling something.  I think I'm hearing:  I'm gonna kieww me a wabbit!

217 Is it coincidence that this "pulling a train" story comes out so soon after the proposed Republican cuts to AmTrak?



I think there is a conspiracy.

218 The smart money is going into assless chaps, ammunition, and rat-jerky. Posted by: Monty at January 20, 2011 03:21 PM (4Pleu) Probably explains why this idiot in Montclair, California went nuts with an excavator in his back yard and dug an 60 foot hole to "find gold" because he had some particles of gold dust and a defective metal detector: http://tinyurl.com/4sa5pf9 Mind you this is 4 years ago but hey, we could read the tea leaves when Prop 187 was overturned.

219 CA is strange.  Their legislators clearly put them in this shithole, and they send them back to Sacremento.

220 Many states, especially California and Illinois, are still depending
on the "deux ex machina" method of dealing with their fiscal problems.
And as I've said on many occasions, when your fiscal plans depend on
"then a miracle happens!" as a cornerstone, you are well and truly
boned.

1. Spend money
2. Wait for Miracle
3. Miracle doesn't happen
4. Look what that stoopid Palin said now !!11!!!

221 Note to union thugs who went on the bus ride to AZ to protest AZ 1070 immigration law. How's that bizillion dollar illegal aliens welfare cost working out for you. Do you think your open boarders, sanctuary city helped load up you welfare rolls? Keep up the protests, stay with the theme "they are only looking for jobs that Americans won't do" . Look for the union label on your CA tax bills.  Morons.

222 Thankfully President Toonces is too busy picking the Bears over the Packers to worry about the coming financial chaos.  Can the meteors be summoned?

223 CA is strange.  Their legislators clearly put them in this shithole, and they send them back to Sacremento.

Single party rule. All hail the Politburo!!!

224

Cali can sink us all. So this is good news.

late to the party.  I'm ready Hotair and feeling ill.  If either Huckabee or Palin get the R nomination for President - say hello to 4 more years of Obama.

Shades of Bob Dole. 

225 I'm pretty sure that Obama is pulling for anybody but the Patriots.

226 The real funny part is here in California people were downright giddy with the idea that they were the wall that broke the Republican wave in 2010.When I bring up the fact that they're going to have to go hat in hand to the Republican House for money they get this dumb look on their face.

227 I'm pretty sure that Obama is pulling for anybody but the Patriots.

missed teh funny by about a week.

228 Has Hot Air come out and boldly endorsed Maverick John McCain again for 2012? Or are they waiting another month or two.

229 Surely there must be a few billionaires we can raise taxes on a little bit that will cover all of this!

230 Mike, most people tell me I missed teh funneh by about a lifetime.

231

Interesting chart from the Economist which lists each US state's GDP and compares to world countries.   I'm living in Thailand.

http://tinyurl.com/4r4ukhq

 

232 Posted by: sifty at January 20, 2011 05:04 PM (HJlc+)

Just think, as long as you're laughing, you can pretend the rest of us are laughing with you.

233

I keep hearing from financial people that California, Illinois, et. al. will find a way to pay their bills "somehow". And my reply is always: "somehow" is not a plan. Wishful thinking is not a plan. A blind faith that the stock market will somehow experience a huge boom in the next twenty years the likes of which we have never seen seems...overly optimistic. Implementing "reforms" that will only bear fruit twenty or thirty years down the road strikes me as being rather...timid, if not outright dishonest. ("All new hires will be put on a new pension tier that will save X dollars per year!", Bloomberg crows. But he doesn't mention that the current beneficiaries' benefits will not be touched, and that these benefits are already crippling the city. Cutting the benefits of new hires amounts to pissing in the wind, and he knows it.)

 

234 Freakin welfare is rediculous.  I know some scum who does not work, smokes like a freight train, seems to have plenty of gas money and  plenty to eat - all on our dime.  This bunch of low-life trash even recently had the county come and weatherize their home - all totally free of charge. 

235 228 Has Hot Air come out and boldly endorsed Maverick John McCain again for 2012? Or are they waiting another month or two.
Posted by: sifty at January 20, 2011 05:03 PM

AP might do it in the hope that Meggie Mac will ask him to go buy a new navel ring for her, but fanboy Ed is convinced that Pawlenty will simply dazzle us all

236

MeredILF Whitney addressed this issue a few weeks back, where she projected 50 to 100 defaults, with “accelerated outflows.”  Given this municipal dysentery, I wonder if the states may have the potential to “disincorporate”?  Or fake their own suicide?  Seriously, wouldnÂ’t it make sense for the state to cease to exist, as the Soviet Union did in 1991, and the subordinate government units assume responsibility for governance?        

237 Cali can sink us all. So this is good news.

Just watch what happens when the half of the US economy that is California collapses.

Oh YEAH BABY! TAKING ALL OF YOU "Look how F*cked up California is lets point and laugh" F*cks with us!!

238 Surely there must be a few billionaires we can raise taxes on a little bit that will cover all of this!
Posted by: Governor Ted Striker at January 20, 2011 05:03 PM

Perfect! Tax them 99%. If that's not enough, tax them 109%!

239 Posted by: havedash at January 20, 2011 05:06 PM (sFD5n)

As they say, when you subsidize something, you always get more of it.

This is yet another example of why I think that the government should get completely out of the benevolence industry and let private organizations handle it.

At the very least, people would have to get up the gumption to beg instead of just presenting themselves and saying "Here I am, feed me now."

240 It is not a question of a "sovereign State" declaring bankruptcy. I don't think any sovereign State has ever declared bankruptcy. What has happened in the past with truly "sovereign States" is that they simply default on their debts and revise their laws to stiff the creditors. This in turn went back to the banks who bought their bonds or loaned them money. They in turn hit on the government who "guaranteed" the loans for the banks. In the past this was primarily the U.S.

But the problem we have now is that the States have not been "sovereign States" in the U.S. since the North decided that the Constitution was not a contract to be honored anymore.

So if we were actually going by the "sovereign State" concept the States like CA would simply stiff the bond holders and rewrite their laws to stiff as many other debt holders as the libtards in the CA legislature thought they could get away with "except the unions".

This is the point that the feds would step in and say that the bankruptcy laws are federal laws and that the supremacy clause means that they control the outcome. Never mind that the Constitution has never granted the feds the authority to set bankruptcy laws in the first place.

It will become a huge mess in the end with Kennedy's vote determining whether of not the States like CA get bailed out or not. This despite the fact that there is no money anywhere in any State or the federal coffers to bail them out.

In the end there will only be chaos. This because the liberals are freakin' idiots and that includes the asshole liberals in the Republican Party who have placated them for decades and continue to do so.

241 the subordinate government units

I stand at the ready.

242 Like OMG!

243 Posted by: MikeTheMoose© at January 20, 2011 05:08 PM (0q2P7)

If that seriously looks like its about to happen, look for a big round of secessions.

244 Bailouts of the states are just like bailouts of the eeeevil corporations.  It encourages risk-taking going forward, and it rewards the losers.  I don't want to reward Democrats.

245 Interesting chart from the Economist which lists each US state's GDP and compares to world countries.   I'm living in Thailand.

Oregon is Pakistan. Probably in more ways than GDP

I'm in the Netherlands. Where are my hookers and pot stores?

246 When California starts to drown it will be safer to be in the water with an angry alligator hopped up on Red Bull and crank.

It will grab onto anything it can and take it down.

Invest in popcorn.

247

84 Detroit hardest hit. There is already talk that the Detroit Public Schools may have to shut down half of their schools. Then again, why reward a school system with extra money, when they have had corruption to the point where food service workers, and clerical help have had access to school system checking accounts. Yup, food service workers writing checks to themselves. Oh, and the system bought 11 motorcycles.

I think it was here on AoS the other day that I saw the story about Detroit Public Schools "bridging the digital divide" by purchasing $50 million worth of desktops/scanners/printers for each classroom, laptops for each teacher, and netbooks for each student in the system.  Using stimulus funds, natch.

Oh, and those laptops are already showing up at pawnshops.  They got them in December.

 

248 Posted by: Boots at January 20, 2011 05:12 PM (neKzn)

Shouts of outrage and feigned surprise in 3... 2... 1...

249

Interesting chart from the Economist which lists each US state's GDP and compares to world countries.   I'm living in Thailand.

 

At least you're not Mississippi.   Mississippi = Bangladesh.  Thailand is actually quite capitalist friendly, especially Bangkok.

250 Sweet, if the Bears win tomorrow President Me will go to the Super Bowl personally.  Nothing like the Presidential Finger of Death picking a team to win suck.

251

Much as Jerry Brown gets to be at the reins during the collapse of California, isnÂ’t it to our advantage that Obama be at the reins during the collapse of the United States?  I mean, if we cannot convince the majority of the population (I know, electoral vote) to our cause, even with Palin, Huggybee, or RON PAUL!, then whatÂ’s the point in propping up this enterprise? 

252

Oh, and those laptops are already showing up at pawnshops.  They got them in December.

 Posted by: Boots at January 20, 2011 05:12 PM (neKzn)

I say nuke the entire site from Orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

253

Gateway Pundit today reports that JUST the welfare expense for children of illegals in CA. was $600 million in 2010.

Not counting education.

That number is not even CLOSE... probably by an order of magnitude...

And when I tell people that they're borrowing money in their children's names to support the children of the citizens of another country they just give me the deer in the headlights and look at me like I've just exposed by racist nature...

Anywaze just bail us out you goddam racists!!!

254 Posted by: logprof at January 20, 2011 05:13 PM (BP6Z1)

Yeah, but with my luck they'll win.
I'm already looking at working from home that whole week, I might have to move out to my parents for the week if that happens...

255 Never mind that the Constitution has never granted the feds the authority to set bankruptcy laws in the first place.

Posted by: Vic

Err, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4.

256

100 (Rahm) Emanuel was not specific about exactly how he wants to reform the pension system (i.e., in Chicago) but he vows he won't raise property taxes to do it."

 

Yesterday, he announced his big fix would be to raise taxes on "luxury services".  You know what he considers a "luxury service"?  Tanning booths and dog grooming services.  I'm not kidding.

257

Never mind that the Constitution has never granted the feds the authority to set bankruptcy laws in the first place.

Would that the Bondholders and Lenders were all Californians.

258 Err, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4.

Posted by: goldbricker esq at January 20, 2011 05:16 PM (h2t8r)

Don't need to throw Clause 4 into it. It is among Congress's Enumerated Powers.

259 231 Interesting chart from the Economist which lists each US state's GDP and compares to world countries.   I'm living in Thailand.

http://tinyurl.com/4r4ukhq

 

I'm in Russia.  Hot chicks aplenty!  Spread the message,  God Bless Texas.

260

5 The House needs to pass a bill post-haste indicating how states will be allowed to declare de-facto bankruptcy.

1. Be it resolved, when any State shall have outstanding liabilities exceed 50% of the prior fiscal year's revenues, the shall file a request in the Federal District Court for a Certificate of Res Amo a Vilis Meretricis _{(fucked like a cheap whore - ed)} AND a current projected State-Wide budget. Upon verification by the OMB, said State shall be henceforth removed from the Union and her Borders shall be sealed.

2. Fuck California sideways. Selah.

261

"Just watch what happens when the half of the US economy that is California collapses.

Oh YEAH BABY! TAKING ALL OF YOU "Look how F*cked up California is lets point and laugh" F*cks with us!!"

California is too big to fail!!! Geez, you ever heard something like that? Why do I want to sing "Look for the Union Label"?

262 I didn't catch her name, but I saw on C-SPAN two nights ago that a white-haired, elderly, Democrat Congresswoman made a funny, Freudian slip while speaking on the floor of the House, referring to Obamacare as an "Obamanation" and then correcting herself. I think that she is a member of the Calafornia delegation, but I'm not sure. I'm surprised that it wasn't on the news, unless nobody in the MSM watches C-SPAN.

263 Oops, I don't know why I said tomorrow.  Sunday, of course.

264 OT:  OK, space cowboys.  I got your space right here.

265 Spread the message,  God Bless Texas.

Well, yes.  But that song fails  It doesn't Have a Fiddle In the Band

266

WasnÂ’t there a time in most of our lifetimes when California and Illinois were bastions of good governance?  I go back to the days when Jim Thompson then Jim Edgar were governors of Illinois, when we had relatively low income taxes (compared to Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota), a humming economy, low unemployment, and a balanced budgetÂ…within the last 10 years, Illinois has become a basket case.  Historically, aside from Cook County and Little Egypt, Illinois has been a reasonably conservative state.  One day IÂ’ll figure out what the hell happened there. 

267 Much as Jerry Brown gets to be at the reins during the collapse of California, isnÂ’t it to our advantage that Obama be at the reins during the collapse of the United States?

I keep saying Brown is our Obama. Either he's the vaccination against Democrat governance evermore, or he's the Red Death.

268
dammit, I picked the wrong day to skip AoS

I missed the thread below.

Vintage Ace.

Typical northeastern thinking, too.

269 Sock that sock.

270 Posted by: Boots at January 20, 2011 05:12 PM (neKzn)

Give a man a computer, he'll surf for a day than pawn the computer to buy drugs. Give a man a firearm and he'll get free money whenever the convenience store is not too heavily guarded.

271 Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at January 20, 2011 05:27 PM (8lCJT)

Two words:  Democrat.  Machine.

272 Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at January 20, 2011 05:27 PM (8lCJT)

Yup, and California was once golden. For details on the decline, see articles by Steve Malanga in City Journal. No hay film a once.

273 My final thoughts until I post more:

Draft Paul Ryan.

274 Like OMG!

Posted by: The Valley at January 20, 2011 05:10 PM (EL+OC)

I wanted to post a link here to Frank Zappa's Valley Girl, but copyright infringement denies my request......

275 Man, I really hope the Rs can hold the line for the next couple years...

276
Oh YEAH BABY! TAKING ALL OF YOU "Look how F*cked up California is lets point and laugh" F*cks with us!!"

California is too big to fail!!! Geez, you ever heard something like that? Why do I want to sing "Look for the Union Label"?

Posted by: Tigtog at January 20, 2011 05:22 PM (Q5+Og)

Yeah, and not mentioning the fact that a majority of the businesses in California that would be effected by such a happening would simply pack up and move to another state or country that will allow them to continue to prosper.

277

167 Some municipalities are actually paying pension benefits out of current tax receipts. Madness it may be, but it reflects how senior they consider that debt burden to be.

 

Last couple of years, Illinois has sold municipal bonds to make the yearly pension payments!  Between $3billion to $4billion each time.  They are about to do it again, now that the Illinois' governor moonbeam has been elected.

278 I guess that would be affected......wouldn't it.  I always get confused there.

279 Alabama is Nigeria.

That will have unforeseen results on their ombudsman, to be sure.

280

my state IL. just put a massive tax hike in effect, then promptly increased spend ing and borrowed more money.

somehow this is supposed to "solve" our money problems.

we'll be right back where we are now in a couple of years.

 

can we bulldoze Chicago into Lake Michigan yet?

 

281

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 20, 2011 05:23 PM (8y9MW)

Touche'  Nice lipunsynch, though.  Thought I was watching a Godzirra movie.

282
Are we in a crisis?

Isn't it about time we started to act like we were in a crisis before we jump right into Panic Mode?

I see no sense of urgency from our lawmakers and it's making me twitchy.

283 I'm sorry, but that is fucking disgusting. $1,200/month? I can feed four people very, very well on half that. Steak, seafood, lots of good stuff. Of course I actually make my food and don't buy packaged shit, but still!  Posted by: Political Purist at January 20, 2011 04:23 PM (LH6ir)

I just checked with a lady I know, she and 3 kids get $668 per month total on the Lone Star Card. 

WIC does not apply to her because her kids are over the age of 5.

Maths followz:  $668/4 mouths = $167 per mouth-month.  $167/4 weeks = $41.75 weekly per mouth.

Your mouths may vary....

284 Posted by: Count de Monet at January 20, 2011 05:37 PM (XBM1t)

I just grabbed one on the search.  There were a lot to choose from, and I didn't want to watch them all for the best one.

285 Daddy, is the imminent bankruptcy of seven bastions of 'progressivism' the reason the flag (of the US, dummy) only has fifty stars?

286

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 20, 2011 05:42 PM (8y9MW)

BTW, out of curiosity (not yellow).  What does Dedicated Tenther mean?

287 ...and be sure to go to californiapensionreform.org for some soothing perspective...

288

247  Well of course the lap tops will be sold and pawned. Hell when the progs pass out fans to the heat challenged they sell them for 5 bucks as soon as it cools down. No sense in keeping for the next heat wave. The progs will give them an new one every time. Oh and how did the students account for the missing laptops? No accountability?

 

 

289 Posted by: TXMarko at January 20, 2011 05:41 PM (uaDfS)

That's odd.  I'm pretty sure that 800 was the new statutory minimum.  Maybe I heard incorrectly, or maybe that new amount hasn't kicked in, yet.

Still, though, that's 4 people (same as my family) working on 110% of my monthly grocery budget.  Just sayin'

290 Posted by: Count de Monet at January 20, 2011 05:48 PM (XBM1t)

There was a story in the side bar several months ago.  Apparently liberals were attempting to denigrate anyone who holds up the 10th Amendment as something with meaning as "tenthers."

291 Hu, buddy, pal, thanks for picking up the tab the other night. I throw a hell of a feast, don't I? Anyways, I'm a little short on allowance for the kids. Cali and Illi are still "finding their way" with my credit cards and who can deny them, am I right? Anyways, I'll pay you back as soon as they graduate from accounting school. ? No, they're not going, but maybe someday...

292 Boots: "Tanning booths and dog grooming services."

Note to self: tanning dog hides probably isn't a growth industry.

I'd be curious to know what the tax rate increase for tanning would be to balance the budget. Is a bazillion close?

293

Oh and how did the students account for the missing laptops? No accountability?

 

Believe it or not, the pawnshop owners themselves are turning people in.  The laptops & netbooks are clearly engraved with DPS insignia.

294 Forgot: 31% of all U.S. welfare payments are made in Ca.

295

I'd be curious to know what the tax rate increase for tanning would be to balance the budget. Is a bazillion close?

Rahm isn't doing interviews, he's buying commercial time and issuing statements.  He looks into the camera and tells the most amazing whoppers with a straight face.  (Why Rahm & Obama hate tanning booths so much is a mystery btw.)

He did not explain how taxing the luxury sector of tanning booths would lead to massive new revenues.  Deux ex machina I guess.

296 Posted by: Boots at January 20, 2011 05:58 PM (neKzn)

What's the punchline to the old accountant joke:  "Assume a can opener..."

297

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 20, 2011 05:50 PM (8y9MW)

Love the Tenth!  'Tis a shame that after the recent unpleasantness some folks got to figuring them clear, direct, unambiguous words had been rendered moot.

298 Err, Article 1, Section 8

Yeah, forgot about that one. We are truly boned.

299 CA is strange.  Their legislators clearly put them in this shithole, and they send them back to Sacremento.

Posted by: rdbrewer at January 20, 2011 04:59 PM (V/h8t)

Not a lot of choice. Both sides have gerrymandered themselves into all safe seats.

300 Historically, aside from Cook County and Little Egypt, Illinois has been a reasonably conservative state.  One day IÂ’ll figure out what the hell happened there. 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at January 20, 2011 05:27 PM (8lCJT)

Its stopped being a reasonably conservative state. That's all it ever takes.

301

I just checked with a lady I know, she and 3 kids get $668 per month total on the Lone Star Card. 

WIC does not apply to her because her kids are over the age of 5.

Maths followz:  $668/4 mouths = $167 per mouth-month.  $167/4 weeks = $41.75 weekly per mouth.

Your mouths may vary....

Posted by: TXMarko at January 20, 2011 05:41 PM

So what's all this statriotic Texas shit? "Don't mess with Texas" blah blah. Plus your shithole dirtwater towns look uglier than California's.

302

@77: "My suggestion to California and Illinois: Go straight to Hell. Do not pass GO, do not collect 2 billion. Just kick the express elevator into overdrive and feel the black hole suction pulling you into a well earned oblivion. Adios, fucksticks."

Hello, President Jintao?  Good news!  I've decided to accept your offer to base strike aircraft, surface to surface missiles, naval units, and 25 divisions of infantry and armor in the Republic of California.  Yes, payment in gold is acceptable, of course.

303

can we bulldoze Chicago into Lake Michigan yet?

 

Posted by: Shoey at January 20, 2011 05:37 PM

I'd like to see Oprah do a cannonball from the roof of the John Hancock building.

304 7 110% voting coming from California, Illinois, New York, Michigan, and Massachusetts in 2012.

Posted by: t-bird at January 20, 2011 03:08 PM (FcR7P)

It's a miracle!

305

You an't hold the students accountable if they "lose" the laptops-

if they could afford to replace them they wouldn't have received them in the first place. Give 'em another one goddamit racist before their ejumacation is negatively impacted- dream denied etc...

Therefore they are highly motivated to aspire and achieve and thus become held responsible for the consequences of their irresponsibility

wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

/sarc

306 altın çilek - fx15 - leke kremi - yudali - maurers - ozon yağı