1 O/T:  so no one misses this speech:  "Chris Christie is speaking  at the American Enterprise Institute today.  The event was so over subscribed they are going to live stream his speech here.  He'll be speaking at 1 pm hope ace live blogs this event."

2 Allowing public employees to unionize was the worst mistake the country/states/municipalities ever made.

3 The kids needed a day off to reflect on how poorly we are paid.

Now off to the casino to get wasted!

4 So the public school teachers had a "sick" day, otherwise known as a strike.

In my old home State years ago that was considered a firing offense.

Why are these teachers not in the same condition now as when they first applied for their job (looking for work)?

OK, I guess it is because 2011 Wisconsin is not 1950 Georgia.

maybe things could use a little reverse to times of old.

5 It's true. And when some woman is dressing like a whore in a school, you have every right to expose her tits for all the world to see... for the children.

6 Public schools are jobs programs for adults

Actually, the public schools are more like welfare programs for adults who generally have no marketable skills.

Education departments are the bottom of the barrel at just about every university.  The mean standardized test scores of education majors and education grad students are pathetic, to be overly charitable.  Most public school teachers couldn't really pass many high school tests, themselves.

7 Posted by: plain old soothsayer at February 16, 2011 10:11 AM (uFokq)

Best hash ever!

8 Posted by: Anka Machines at February 16, 2011 10:14 AM (ZrINO)

Aw crap, worst hash ever!

9

Most public school teachers couldn't really pass many high school tests, themselves.

Maybe that's why so many are so vociferously pro-union. They know they couldn't get a decent job in the private sector.

 

10 I'm a math professor at a land-grant university.

I'm also a graduate of American public schools.  (BTW, this makes the rarest animal on earth.)

Based on the product that they produce, I say burn the schools to the ground, the effect would be better, on balance.

And, yes, the kinds of people who are graduating to teach your kids should horrify you.  Our school is better than most in that the math teachers actually have to get a true math degree rather than one in education.  Still, it is rare that an intelligent person actually enters and graduates with a certification to teach mathematics.

11

Maybe that's why so many are so vociferously pro-union. They know they couldn't get a decent job in the private sector.

 

Posted by: Monty at February 16, 2011 10:16 AM (4Pleu)

They couldn't get a decent job in the rest of the public sector!

12

"Education departments are the bottom of the barrel at just about every university." (emphasis added)

No, that distinction clearly belongs to the Journalism Department, thank you very much. 

13 "The Cartel" is also an excellent movie on how unions are hurting public education, specifically in New Jersey.

14

if we really want to "fix" the myriad of things that our wrong with our nation, we need to begin at the beginning and fix the schools...

Sorry, but here I gotta side with Murray, Sailer, La Griffe, and The Derb: To "fix" the schools, we need to begin at the beginning, and fix the STUDENTS.

And the technology just doesn't exist [yet - if it ever even will] to turn IQ-80 children into IQ-100 children.

 

15

Reposting this from the Headlines thread, b/c it's actually fairly applicable here:

(This) points to my personal theory, which is that the pressure placed on kids while they're in school to BECOME teachers after they graduate and have gone to college is encouraging lots of people who would otherwise never go into the teaching profession to become teachers (just Google "critical teacher shortage" and see how many results you get).  Let's face it, if you can't stand kids, can't spell or do basic math, and don't know the first thing about how to control a classroom, you're going to be a crap teacher.  But thanks to the unions, you've got a job for life!  It's a job that you HATE, but it's a paycheck.  So you have thousands of underqualified, uninspired "educators" suffering through a long workday, preaching to a bunch of apathetic and hostile students who would rather be at home playing Call of Duty.  It's ridiculous.

Also, this prompts me to point out the huge difference between "teaching" and "educating."  When someone is "taught" good manners, it means that they are expected to learn and demonstrate those manners.  When someone is "educated" about good manners, it means they're made aware of them, but not necessarily expected to demonstrate them.  "To teach" is much stricter than "to educate," which I'm convinced is why the liberals HATE using the term "teacher."  It implies a black and white type of learning, where there is a right and wrong answer to every question, and the adult is the one with the answers.  Liberals are much happier EDUCATING than TEACHING, because educating is just a way of raising awareness about a topic without requiring anything solid in return.  "Results?  What results?  Who cares about results?  We want to open the students' minds!" 

So every time I hear the term "educator," I want to punch someone.

16 I have said this many times and it is actually starting to gain ground now that people are starting to wake up.

Public schools have been ruined by intervention from the combined forces of the federal government, courts, and the unions.  There is only one way to fix the problem.

One revise all the State Constitutions to remove the "right" to a free education. Then remove ALL public funding for schools and ALL public schools.

Give businesses tax breaks for establishing formal apprenticeship programs. All other schools to be private schools.

17

And, yes, the kinds of people who are graduating to teach your kids should horrify you.

I'm always struck at how few truly good teachers I had during my own primary schooling career. This would have been from the early 1970's through 1990 (Head Start all the way to my senior year in college). Out of that two decade tract of time, I can only think of three or four teachers who really stood out -- one was my Kindergarten teacher, whom I still remember after all these years. (I actually cried on the last day of the year because I didn't want to leave her class.) Another good one was a Physical Sciences/Chemistry teacher I had in junior high -- she was a tough old bird with the proverbial heart of gold. I loved her a ton. And my shop teacher (the last year they actually taught "shop" in my high school) Mr. Heath. He was one of the best teachers I ever had because he actually taught you stuff -- he'd actually stick around after school to help you with projects and stuff. If I'd had more Voc/Ed teachers like him, I might have ended up as a welder or car mechanic (and been happy about it).

My college profs were almost uniformly bad. The best ones were the science/engineering profs, but we generally got stuck with snotty grad students in my undergrad courses. I think I saw my Calc prof two times the entire semester. And my "Honors Western Lit" prof, who was supposed to be my personal counselor, went on a two-year sabbatical about three days after I showed up and stuck me with a grad student who hated everything in her life, including me.

 

18 Vouchers.

19 Vouchers.

20 If you have the time, here's an interesting link

Go to some of the score elementary and middle school score cards and notice one thing:

1) the percent of students scoring advanced or proficient on their PSSA (math or writing)

Now keep in mind that the promotion rate at these schools is almost always above 95%.

What do you see, (for those that don't want to click on the link? You see thatt he majority of elementary/middle school students and the majority of schools, can't score proficient or higher on their state standardized tests. Despite that, nearly all of them are moved on to the next grade level.

21 I'll speak up in defense of my local public schools, which proves you CAN have a good public school education.

But money is not the defining issue.  Our schools are not lavishly funded.

22

Maybe that's why so many are so vociferously pro-union. They know they couldn't get a decent job in the private sector.

Posted by: Monty at February 16, 2011 10:16 AM (4Pleu)

You should check out GRE scores by intended major. It will blow your mind. I first got a look at this with my own GRE results. The averages were printed on it and I couldn't believe what I saw. Here's a link to a taste (from 2001-2004, though they are pretty much the same for other years).

23 ....There is only one way to fix the problem.

One revise all the State Constitutions to remove the "right" to a free education. Then remove ALL public funding for schools and ALL public schools.

I call BS. If the one way to fix the problem is something that is never going to happen, then it's no solution either.

24 The best ones were the science/engineering profs, but we generally got stuck with snotty grad students in my undergrad courses.

That is truly a racket with colleges now, even the big name ones. When my youngest brother was working on his PhD at GA Tech (Chemistry) he had to teach classes for the professor (even though he had no teaching certificate) and grade papers.

And, as my brother explained, you had better jump at the chance as well because getting your doctorate, and how long it took, was totally up to the professor running that part of the studies program.

25 I've read various articles stating that the quality of education in this country appears to be inversely proportional to the quantity of money spent on it.

Vouchers.

Let parents decide what schools they want their kids to attend.

26 Given my own experiences with public education (as a student and now as a parent), i truly despise the teaching unions. The good teachers (and there are good teachers in the public school system) get treated like shit and the crappy teachers just ride the wave and no matter how much everyone knows the crappy teacher couldn't teach an apple to fall out a tree, the crappy teacher will remain.

27 Hey Monty, did you recently write an American Thinker article, or was that a different Monty?

28 Just sayin... it sounded like you.

29 call BS. If the one way to fix the problem is something that is never going to happen, then it's no solution either.

Posted by: schoolthings at February 16, 2011 10:29 AM (MC1uU)

It will never happen if we all say it will never happen and no need to try.

In any case, if it never happens then they will never be fixed.

30 25 I've read various articles stating that the quality of education in this country appears to be inversely proportional to the quantity of money spent on it.

I wonder if anybody has done a breakdown which describes exactly where all the funds allocated for public education end up.

I'd wager that a lot of education funding increases goes directly to bureaucrats and bloated administrative overheads. 

31

That is truly a racket with colleges now, even ESPECIALLY the big name ones.

FIFY. 

32

My suggestions:

1. Vouchers for all students

2. Abolish Ed schools and force teachers to major in an academic subject (physics, English, whatever.)

Many good private schools won't consider you for employment if you show up with a bachelors degree from a school of education.

3. Abolish public teachers' unions.

33 Today they're illegally on strike; yesterday they took kids out of class to attend the protests.   Note how knowledgeable the little skulls full of mush are!


*waves at AmishDude*  I had to take Algebra II at ISU, early 90s, because my high school didn't offer that much math. (For awhile, my high school handed me a teacher's version of a textbook and told me to teach myself (under the supervision of the study hall teacher, who was my band director), but I was unsuccessful...)

34 It is truly amazing to see how standards have fallen in "education."  I found an old 8th grade exam that my grandfather took in the mid 1920's in Newburyport Mass.  I guarantee that 95% of today's high school graduates would fail this test miserably.  No multiple guess here.  A question and a space to show your work. 

35
I'd wager that a lot of education funding increases goes directly to bureaucrats and bloated administrative overheads. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 16, 2011 10:33 AM (9hSKh)

I recall reading that an inordinate amount of the money does indeed go to non-teaching bureaucrats.

36 I went to private school and I've sent my kids to private schools. Even the private schools are much less rigorious than they were 30 years ago, much much much less. I would home school before I let my kids anywhere near those sex drug crime libtard cess pools. The incredible sacrifice is worth it.

37

It will never happen if we all say it will never happen and no need to try.

In any case, if it never happens then they will never be fixed.

You and I both know that such a policy choice is more politically unpalatable than Social Security and Medicare reform.

Vouchers, year round schooling(with no increase in pay), and scrapping the traditional K-12 grade model would help substantially.

38 Posted by: iknowtheleft at February 16, 2011 10:13 AM (N49h9)

And the top-tier private schools in the United States ignore the education department grads and prefer to draw their teachers from departments that actually teach something worthwhile.

I went to a private school, and my physics instructor had a degree in...can you guess? Physics! My math instructors had degrees in math. My English instructors all had degrees that required reading and writing skills. Nobody had "education" degrees or crap like that. And the advanced degrees that many instructors held were not designed to pump up their base salaries; compensation was predicated on success, not seniority or fluff degrees. Those degrees were in real disciplines (My French instructor had a PhD from the Sorbonne).

That's how to improve education in America.

39

1. Vouchers for all students

2. Abolish Ed schools and force teachers to major in an academic subject (physics, English, whatever.)

Many good private schools won't consider you for employment if you show up with a bachelors degree from a school of education.

3. Abolish public teachers' unions.

Posted by: boniface ballers at February 16, 2011 10:33 AM (bPbwB)

Amen! I'd go one step further and abolish all public sector unions, or alternatively ban them from voting for any government official that is part of the government which pays them and/or provides their benefits.

40

 or was that a different Monty

Different Monty. But we're all part of the same guild.

 

41 That is truly a racket with colleges now, even the big name ones. When my youngest brother was working on his PhD at GA Tech (Chemistry) he had to teach classes for the professor (even though he had no teaching certificate) and grade papers.

Posted by: Vic at February 16, 2011 10:30 AM (M9Ie6)

Pretty much all grad students (in the sciences) have teaching responsibilities.  That's why no one in a science grad program should be paying tuition.  If you are paying for a Ph.D., then the school really didn't want you.

Teaching certificates are not needed for college/university teaching.  Only for teaching public school K-12 are certificates required, which is why many knowledgable people don't go into K-12 teaching.  Instead, we have teachers for the kids who don't know their asses from holes in the ground.  Though they love to teach all about asses, anyway.  It's these idiots who are formulating our kids' curricula and telling us how they need to instruct kids in every aspect of life, from birth control to abortion to the wonders of homosexuality to fisting for fun ...

This wouldn't be so bad, except that all landowners are forced to fund these travesties (in pretty much every state I know about).

42

Sorry, but here I gotta side with Murray, Sailer, La Griffe, and The Derb: To "fix" the schools, we need to begin at the beginning, and fix the STUDENTS.

And the technology just doesn't exist [yet - if it ever even will] to turn IQ-80 children into IQ-100 children.

But other countries don't have this problem.  Of course, they don't try to educate IQ-80 kids like IQ-120 kids.  If you can't pass the various entrance exams you go for a trade or if you can't handle that you go for a menial career like journalist.

We need to end the notion of a liberal arts education and it starts with the public universities.  If you major in math, you take math.  No diversity courses, no breadth requirements.  Maybe some physics or computer science or even economics.

No humanities, no social sciences and you'd better pass an audition if you're going to major in music or the arts. There's enough liberal arts at liberal arts colleges.

The whole notion of a liberal arts education was to educate the idle rich and the noblesse with all of their oblige to have a canon with which they would all be familiar.  The canon is gone and far too many people who can hope and dream of being little more than a barista are going into the liberal arts.

But it trickles down to the high schools.  Instead of preparing students for difficult work, it's all dioramas, skits and assemblies about bullying. Education for these teachers was little more than an expensive book club and they bring it to the classrooms.

You don't really learn anything, you just discuss your opinions of whatever is the topic at hand.

43

Public schools are jobs programs for adults - ding, ding, ding.

So I've heard that ObamaCare is a takeover of 1/7th (or 1/5th, I can't remember) of the economy.  But my google-fu can't seem to locate a stat like this for "education".

I'm glad this subject is getting some wider spread internet play with the documentary.  The title of it - "Kids aren't Cars" is kind of laughable given that the modern compulsory school system was designed with exactly this in mind by various Ford, Rockefeller and Carnegie foundations along with a bunch of "progressive" do-gooders from the mid-1800s though the early 1900s.

Get a hold of a copy of The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto if you care to learn more.

44

That is truly a racket with colleges now, even ESPECIALLY the big name ones.

FIFY. 

Posted by: MWR at February 16, 2011 10:33 AM (4df7R)

Ya beat me to it!

45 Posted by: Monty at February 16, 2011 10:37 AM (4Pleu)

Restraint of trade! Guilds are unions in disguise.

46

Different Monty. But we're all part of the same guild.

 Posted by: Monty at February 16, 2011 10:37 AM (4Pleu)

People who comprehend math and economics? 

I've been saying lately that a lot of our troubles could be avoided if we required Democrats to take arithmetic tests before they could run for office.

47

I've been saying lately that a lot of our troubles could be avoided if we required Democrats to take arithmetic tests before they could run for office.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 16, 2011 10:40 AM (/G5LI)

RAACIIST!  That's like a poll tax or something.

48 I'd wager that a lot of education funding increases goes directly to bureaucrats and bloated administrative overheads.

As a percentage, not as much as you may think. In urban areas, what really eats up a lot of money are old closed or/ underused facilities that still have to be staffed or maintained.

Here's an interesting article.  The jist of it is that the school district of philadelphia is facing a $400-500 MILLION shortfall for next year, and a big chunk of that savings is going to come from school closings.

What's interesting to note is that right now, the 300 or so schools need about $4 BILLION worth of capital repairs.

49

Different Monty. But we're all part of the same guild.

 Posted by: Monty at February 16, 2011 10:37 AM (4Pleu)

People who comprehend math and economics? 

-------

The lollipop guild.

50

'-- if we really want to "fix" the myriad of things that our wrong with our nation, we need to begin at the beginning and fix the schools.'

No. The beginning is the families, those who value education and knowledge, who value their kids and make them a priority do well. If we want to fix what's wrong with our nation we need to fix our families so our kids don't see themselves as afterthoughts and inconveniences to adults. The byproducts of passion vice desired loved and highly valued individuals.  Seems kind of hard for kids to be committed to becoming part of a community, committed to supporting and maintaining a society which doesn't seem to provide any stability for them.

~ 50% divorce rate

~ 20% abortion rate (1 abortion for every 4 live birth according to CDC, was 25% when my kids were born)

~30% out of wedlock birthrate. (same as African American community ~25 yrs ago, now their rate is ~70%)

~ cougar phenomena. Is this new, or did I just wake up to it? Parents wanting to be kids again, single again,  women who want to be their daughters party partners  vice  mothers. I'm sure there's an unamed male equivalent for the phenomena as well.

 

51 Dagny, thanks for your reply in the other thread. I think I will try that! Am tired of butting heads with this silly bint of a kindy teacher. ALSO - YES, our private schools (here in PA at least) are far, far less rigorous than they were. My daughter is attending the same school I did, I still have my copybooks! So I have concrete proof. BUT at least at that school, they have great teachers, are really trying, and are very responsive to parental concerns. My son is in a parochial school, which is not really private. You can DEFINITELY tell a difference. Am hopeful that next year will be better. If not, I will pull him and send him to St. Al's. Not excited about that option - he has a lot of good friends at his school (went there for preschool too). Something no one has mentioned, and what I think is the largest problem - TERRIBLE PRINCIPALS. At my son's school, the teachers may be kind of lazy, but they could be so much better . . . but the principal is a maroon. And she always, always ALWAYS supports the teacher over any student or parent. I know several people who took their (very smart!) children out of the school because of this. Teachers, students, parents - we are ALL suffering because of moronic administrators. Show me a school with a sharp principal, and I'll show you a good school with happy teachers and students!

52

Notice the teachers and the teachers union never take a cut.  NEVER.

 

Instead - the kids get the cuts. 

53

RAACIIST!  That's like a poll tax or something.

Posted by: Hedgehog at February 16, 2011 10:41 AM (Rn2kl)

I repeat loud and often that the 24th Amendment was one of the stupidest things ever done in the last 60 years. It's because of those four little words at the end of the Amendment: "or any other tax." 

By exempting the requirement that voters must also be taxpayers, we opened the door to freeloaders deciding elections. Of COURSE we destroyed fiscal discipline in government. Freeloaders don't understand the term, and panderers don't care as long as they get theirs! 

54 Instead of preparing students for difficult work, it's all dioramas, skits and assemblies about bullying.

Dioramas? I thought it was YouTube videos these days. Gotta justify the billions spent on "multimedia technology" (easier to set a kid in front of a TV than to expect him to read a paragraph).

55 Teachers, students, parents - we are ALL suffering because of moronic administrators. Show me a school with a sharp principal, and I'll show you a good school with happy teachers and students!

Posted by: BlackOrchid at February 16, 2011 10:43 AM (SB0V2)

I agree completely.  We have some very good teachers at my kids' private Catholic school but the principal is a complete ignoramus.  My kids will both leave for the prep schools in 6th grade.  (not looking forward to that bill!)

56

~ 50% divorce rate

~ 20% abortion rate (1 abortion for every 4 live birth according to CDC, was 25% when my kids were born)

~30% out of wedlock birthrate. (same as African American community ~25 yrs ago, now their rate is ~70%)

You mean repeal every act of congress that was enacted as part of LBJ's Great Society and fire every government employee associated with it.  The do the same with the Dept of Ed.

57 *waves at AmishDude*  I had to take Algebra II at ISU, early 90s, because my high school didn't offer that much math. (For awhile, my high school handed me a teacher's version of a textbook and told me to teach myself (under the supervision of the study hall teacher, who was my band director), but I was unsuccessful...)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at February 16, 2011 10:34 AM (nAOMZ)

We don't even have "Algebra II" anymore.  Probably they call it College Algebra.  I don't even see students below Engineering Calc I.  Even business calc is left to a lecturer, but I could teach those if I chose to.

It's very difficult for me to teach such a course.  The basic mathematics is too ingrained.  I forget what it was like not to know calculus, let alone high-school algebra.

I actually managed to teach myself 8th-grade Algebra I out of a book.  I was bored in 7th grade, so they put me in a room to read the textbook and teach myself.  8th grade was in a different building.

But, Heather, this is part of the problem.  If we didn't have such a rigid system, you might have had other options.  Off the top of my head, a M-F boarding school (if geography and sparse populations are the problem).

Of course, today, you'd just take an internet course and with all of the instant feedback and interaction, you'd get a very nice education that way.

58

You mean repeal every act of congress that was enacted as part of LBJ's Great Society and fire every government employee associated with it.  The do the same with the Dept of Ed.

Posted by: Vic at February 16, 2011 10:47 AM (M9Ie6)

Don't forget the other useless Departments...Energy, EPA...etc.

59 anyone watching what's happening in NH? The Republicans have a super majority in the legislature and they are introducing lots of juicy bills for a vote. For instance, parental notification for abortions.

60 Well, the Republican governor here in Michigan is about to unveil his budget recommending that all private pension income, including IRAs and 401(k)s, be taxed starting at dollar one (currently, income from private retirement is tax-exempt up to $45,120 for single filers and $90, 240 for joint filers).

Under his proposal, guess which pensions will continue to be exempt 100% with no income limit?  Yep...pensions received for public sector work.  

61 women who want to be their daughters party partners  vice  mothers. I'm sure there's an unamed male equivalent for the phenomena as well.

Extended male adolescence. "Settling down" before 40 is now unnecessary and discouraged.

62 ALSO - YES, our private schools (here in PA at least) are far, far less rigorous than they were. My daughter is attending the same school I did, I still have my copybooks!

Posted by: BlackOrchid at February 16, 2011 10:43 AM (SB0V2)

Since you mentioned old copybooks .... here's a little Kipling awesomeness - neoneocon did a thing about this poem a few years ago and Beck got into it last month, or so:

The Gods of the Copybook Headings

AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

63

We all must suffer so the TEACHERS AND THE TEACHERS UNION  can bleed the tax payer dry while they double dip with their ponzi scheme early retirement plans.  Meanwhile, the greedy cowards in the NEA hide behind our children.

To hell with the Teacher's Union.  Greedy cowards.

64 My high school junior is in honors psychology. She is learning about dreams by watching "Inception." Not reading Interpretation of Dreams by Freud, but watching a fucking movie.

Unbelievable, especially in light of our property taxes.

65

No. The beginning is the families, those who value education and knowledge, who value their kids and make them a priority do well. If we want to fix what's wrong with our nation we need to fix our families so our kids don't see themselves as afterthoughts and inconveniences to adults. The byproducts of passion vice desired loved and highly valued individuals.  Seems kind of hard for kids to be committed to becoming part of a community, committed to supporting and maintaining a society which doesn't seem to provide any stability for them.

~ 50% divorce rate

~ 20% abortion rate (1 abortion for every 4 live birth according to CDC, was 25% when my kids were born)

~30% out of wedlock birthrate. (same as African American community ~25 yrs ago, now their rate is ~70%)

Posted by: styrgwillidar at February 16, 2011 10:43 AM (IrbU4)


The various components are all interlinked in a self reinforcing feedback loop. Much of the driving energy for social disaster comes from government funding of reckless behavior and legal system reforms promoting and tolerating it.

In other words, letting Democrats get elected. Liberal Judges and Liberal Governments enact policies and push interpretations of laws that reinforce cultural destruction.

66 anyone happen to know if Gov Dayton's approvals are going down the shitter? I heard he's raising taxes in MN.

67

Did anyone else watch those Drew Carey videos at Reason about Cleveland?

There was one about schools that actually talked a bunch about a school in Oakland, CA.

It was all about how that school was successful because of autonomy. The teachers could teach the way they wanted to without the principal telling them what to do. The principal didn't have to listen to the school district.

They worshiped autonomy, but I kept thinking "why would it be so important to not do what these administrators were telling you to do...unless the problem is that what the administrators were telling you to do is dead wrong!"

An autonomous teacher who liked the stupid policies really wouldn't do any better than one following directions from someone with a clue.

68

if we really want to "fix" the myriad of things that our wrong with our nation, we need to begin at the beginning and fix the schools.'

The thing is -- they aren't "broken" -- they are doing exactly what they were designed to do.

The beginning is the families, those who value education and knowledge, who value their kids and make them a priority do well. If we want to fix what's wrong with our nation we need to fix our families so our kids don't see themselves as afterthoughts and inconveniences to adults. The byproducts of passion vice desired loved and highly valued individuals.  Seems kind of hard for kids to be committed to becoming part of a community, committed to supporting and maintaining a society which doesn't seem to provide any stability for them.

The "fix" is the millions of families that are homeschooling and/or loving their kids enough to get them out of regular public schools and into charter and other alternative schools where education and not "schooling" is the true goal.

69 Not all the problems are with the teachers and unions, though that's usually a good place to start.


In my particular area, the public schools in the city proper are farked beyond belief because of a federal desegregation order which was in place over the course of four decades and drained a lot of the talented kids out of the public system.

Every time they would make a particularly stupid ruling, more kids would be pulled out of the system and sent to private / parochial schools or the families would move to the suburbs so that they could send the kids to public schools where they had a shot at a real education.

70 My sister in law is a teacher in a public school. And I will say this for her. She IS a good teacher. She has the perfect personality for the job. Firm enough to hold the line on kids, but not nasty. However, she started out as someone who just cared about doing a great job, but over the years her attitude has become like the other union teachers. Protectionist of teachers' jobs and money. I got into a discussion with her once regarding 2 special ed students I know. I was truly disappointed in her attitude. One of these kids was hearing impaired, the other has asperger's . They are doing very well in a small, Catholic School where everybody knows everybody else. The school is a true community with parents who know all about what goes on. Because of this situation, the kids who are very different, the type who in many situation would be made to feel like freaks, are treated well and doing well academically. They receive special ed services from the public school system because: 1. their parents pay a buttload of taxes 2. it is the law The shocker: My sister in law, who at one time cared more about the kids than about the self interests of teachers, doesn't think they should get special ed services from the public school system.

71

You mean repeal every act of congress that was enacted as part of LBJ's Great Society and fire every government employee associated with it.  The do the same with the Dept of Ed.

Posted by: Vic at February 16, 2011 10:47 AM (M9Ie6)

That is a major piece of what I meant. We also need to kick out every Judge nominated by Roosevelt and Truman, and anyone that went to Law school that taught their liberal interpretations.

72 64 My high school junior is in honors psychology. She is learning about dreams by watching "Inception." Not reading Interpretation of Dreams by Freud, but watching a fucking movie.

First, "honors psychology" is an oxymoron.

Second, there shouldn't be time in the curriculum for psychology.  Math is what you need.  Anybody can pick up psychology on the weekends or through their bedtime reading.

73 70. Oh, that is sad. We always get that with the buses here; all I "take" from the public school system is the bus ride, but whenever the district starts talking about cutting buses etc, all the parents start screaming "why are we letting the private and Catholic school kids use OUR buses?!?!" as if I don't pay property taxes AND school tuition! all I ask is a bus ride!

74

There are two things wrong with our so-called school system:  Unions and Tenure.  Get rid of both.

75 And I've gotten into these kind of discussions with other union teachers. Even a lot of the competent, hard working teachers, place a higher priority on teachers' interests than kids'. These people really hate parochial schools.

76 If we didn't have such a rigid system, you might have had other options.  Off the top of my head, a M-F boarding school (if geography and sparse populations are the problem).

At the time, Iowa had just started open enrollment, so if my mother hadn't been on the school board and more concerned with her social standing in the community than my education, I could have gone to school in the county seat or possibly Ames HS. *mutter* Actually, I think the best thing they could have done for me would have been to let me drop out at 16 and go on to college; my senior year was all Foods and Shorthand (in 1991!) and Creative Writing, because I had to be there, and I'd taken everything academic.  But at the time, I didn't know that was an option.

Of course, today, you'd just take an internet course and with all of the instant feedback and interaction, you'd get a very nice education that way.

Wisconsin has one of those. Of course, its enrollment was capped by the last governor at the request of the teachers union--online schools don't require as many warm bodies paying union dues as physical schools.

77 Mental arithmetic:

Pivide 347,264 by 16

Do this in your head and provide the answer.

How many can do this? how many of our children can do this?

This was common practice standing before the class in the 1800's

78 Heather,

Soon, hopefully even teachers won't be required to pay union dues...That one change right there will hopefully make it *much* harder for the unions.

79 Mental arithmetic:

Pivide 347,264 by 16

Do this in your head and provide the answer.

How many can do this? how many of our children can do this?

This was common practice standing before the class in the 1800'sPosted by: MarkC at February 16, 2011 11:00 AM (yPPVC)



I would be completely lost. I don't know how to Pivide anything.

80 The breakdown of the family is far more important than some stupid teachers (though they are important too) in regards to our failing kids. But the social conservatives should just shut up, the elites told us so.

81 18 Vouchers.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 16, 2011 10:27 AM (/G5LI)
19 Vouchers.
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at February 16, 2011 10:27 AM (/G5LI)
________

3Dized it for ya!

 

82 In Dallas, they're looking at a several-million dollar budget shortfall for next year, so they may have to lay off a bunch of teachers.  On the news story last night (local Fox affiliate), I heard two things that really made me glad I don't live in Big D (even though people in Arlington probably feel similarly)

The first was someone who was saying, basically, "everything else" should be cut before the Education budget.  The other was some guy saying that "the kids" will suffer if there are fewer teachers.

To the first, I wanted to say: "THERE IS NO MORE MONEY! Get over it."
To the second, I wanted to say: "Not if you're handling them at home properly."

I really, really hope I'm making enough money when my kids enter school that my wife can stay home and home school them.

83 OT: Pence on now w/ the:

Hearing on: the “Constitutionality of the Individual Mandate”

Wednesday 2/16/2011 - 9:30 a.m.

2141 Rayburn House Office Building

Full Committee

http://tinyurl.com/4aogxdl

You have to click on 'watch video webcast' and your media player will open.

84 anyone watching what's happening in NH?

Posted by: plain old soothsayer at February 16, 2011 10:49 AM (uFokq)

I am!  I am!  Of course, I live here.  

That's one of my favorite statistics from the November bloodbath elections: 1/5th of all local legislature "flips" from democrat to republican were right here in NH.  20% of the entire country.

I love my state.  Sometimes we get it right (if we can just keep the Massholes and granola VTers barricaded on the other side of their respective borders).

85

My high school junior is in honors psychology. She is learning about dreams by watching "Inception." Not reading Interpretation of Dreams by Freud, but watching a fucking movie.

Unbelievable, especially in light of our property taxes

Only one movie? I counted - in my son's 4 years of High School he sat thru 31.

You read that correctly - 31 movies (not including quasi~instructional videos).

As to the overall cost structures - my local $ have gone to such things as 3,000 BlackBerries, 50 Prius, and my personal favorite, 69 non teaching, non fixed operations full time employees at his HS. But hey, it's For The Children^*

^*copyright Democrat Party, 1975 - today.

 

 

86 As many problems as the schools have, the biggest problems are cultural and begin at home.  Aggressive, belligerent students who show up to school with no intention of learning, and parents who either don't care or actively encourage the behavior, are not things that can be fixed by changing the way teachers are retained or compensated. 

My girlfriend teaches high school english, and out of her 90 or so students, only about a third are getting a C or better.  The students who fail do so because they don't read any of the assigned material.  They plagiarize their writing assignments.  They act out in class, earning themselves detention or even suspensions.  (When I say act out, chairs have been thrown.)  They just neglect to do or turn in most of their assignments. 

That is not a "teacher" problem.  That is not a "school" problem.  That is a "student" problem.  That is a "home" problem. 

87 A senator from Georgia just previously called into question a 'couple of supreme court justices' relationship with the Koch brothers', re their possible ruling on Obamacare. 

Bringing about a parliamentary objection from another member of the committee.

88 The NEA and the Unions are about the worst and they wonder why johnny cant read Its becuase their brainwashing johnny into becoming a obediant little zombie to obey and worship BIG BROTHER

89 O/T: How's the pup, Tami?

90 Also, they should be able to fire teachers who take a sick day when they aren't sick. There are districts who, at certain times, like the day before spring break or Christmas vacation, require a doctor's note for a sick day. The way it was explained to me by an administrator is that sick days are a part of the contract, and if they break the contract they can be fired. It think the problem is that the system doesn't have the nads to enforce it.

91 BTW, for the poem, the "Market Place" for Kipling wasn't the free market, but more like the popular culture and the fashionable views of the progressive elite.

92 88 The NEA and the Unions are about the worst and they wonder why johnny cant read Its becuase their brainwashing johnny into becoming a obediant little zombie to obey and worship BIG BROTHER

Dammit, I thought I destroyed their transmitter!  Someone ship out a bunch of those special sunglasses to the public school system...

93

The real lessons of school:

1. Forgetfullness 2. Bewilderment and Confusion 3. Classification of people

4. Indifference 5. Emotional Dependancy 6. Intellectual Dependancy

7. Provisional Self-esteem 8. No privacy 

94 When our son was in fifth grade in Chicagoland, we were appalled he couldn't do basic division.  We met with his teacher who said, "That's why we have calculators." 

As soon as we moved south, we enrolled him in private school.  When he was tested in math, the teacher asked, "Who has been teaching this child basic math??"  He quickly caught up with the other kids, thank gawd.

The school he attended in Chicagoland was one of the highest rated.  Of course, the teachers were all tenured, including the one who spent her lunch hour in her car drinking vodka.

95 Saxby Chambliss? He's been turning into a McCain, lately

96 Thanks for asking, Y-not. He's still making me a little nuts.   That spot they shaved on his rump will not heal and he's still itchy in general but most of the rash is gone. 

97

"In Dallas, they're looking at a several-million dollar budget shortfall for next year, so they may have to lay off a bunch of teachers"

 

I call BS. (not on you for reporting this) Any idea of the # of non teachers in the system? Equipment costs? Pension costs? Nah, can't cut those, so we'll trot out the old "cut teachers" canard to scare up some more of that sweet tax coin...

98 One thing I have noted uniformly about all these stories of budget cuts, both nationally and locally, in regard to schools. Without fail, the stories always reference laying off teachers.

That then begs the question, are they laying off some of these worthless bureaucrat positions and the press just not mentioning it to make it look more pitiful, or are they just not laying off the bureaucrats at all?

That then begs the question on these cost savings, what is the ration of laid off teachers to laid off admin?

99 Based on my experience with the public schools, both as a student and as a parent, I believe I can be reasonable and objective here.  My proposal to reform public education is: 

1) Send all school administrators to a Turkish prison. 
2) Exile all teachers who have education degrees to either North Korea or Cuba.
3) Sell all public school property to the highest bidder.
4) Shut down the state university system, lock, stock, and basketball team.  
5) Stand aside and let the free market build an education system that works. 

100 Posted by: Jess at February 16, 2011 11:13 AM (6klwE)

I see you and I were thinking the same thing at the same time.

101 Saxby Chambliss?

He's been turning into a McCain, lately

Posted by: plain old soothsayer at February 16, 2011 11:11 AM (uFokq) 

You've got that right.  And the Tea Party is taking note.

102

Only one movie? I counted - in my son's 4 years of High School he sat thru 31.

I've seen schools where students on plopped down in front of Disney movies every Friday afternoon so that teachers can get their grading done so they don't have to take anything home over the weekend. It really puts into perspective the complaint teachers often have about how much they have to do outside of school. J

103 A senator from Georgia just previously called into question a 'couple of supreme court justices' relationship with the Koch brothers', re their possible ruling on Obamacare. 

Bringing about a parliamentary objection from another member of the committee.

Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2011 11:06 AM (VuLos)

My bad....it was not a senator...this is a house hearing. 

And the congressman who made the remark about two supreme court justices having a relationship with the Koch brothers was.....Hank Johnson (D-Guam).

104 97 That spot they shaved on his rump will not heal

That's frustrating!  I did notice with my collie that when she was shaved (once for spaying and once for a hot spot) the fur came in very wiry and it seemed that that area stayed irritated longer.  Is he picking/chewing at it?  I hope it gets better soon. 

105 That is not a "teacher" problem.  That is not a "school" problem.  That is a "student" problem.  That is a "home" problem. 

Posted by: Hal at February 16, 2011 11:05 AM (cNSTn)

Exactly.  It's all about changing the social norms to reflect that this behavior is not acceptable.  But that means saying things like, "Single motherhood is bad!" and "practice abstinence, the safest kind of safe sex," and "kids with emotional problems need to be separated from other students for safety and learning issues," all of which is BAD BAD BAD OMG RACIST DISCRIMINATORY EEEEEVIL!

*rolls eyes*

A previous boss of mine had a young daughter (first or second grade) in class with a boy with severe "emotional problems," who would frequently have violent outbursts that in at least one case involved physically attacking the teacher.  But they couldn't take the boy out of class or have him expelled because that would be "discrimination based on his disability."  This was two or three years ago.  I can only imagine how much WORSE it's become since then.  School isn't about reading, writing and 'rithmatic anymore; it's about making everyone feel included. 

Bullshit.  If you want to feel included, join the Scouts and learn how to make a fire.  At least then you'll be doing something USEFUL.

The thing is, the home problems BECOME school and teacher problems over time because some of these kids are going to go on to become teachers, and they'll bring that belligerence and apathy into the classroom.  It's not a big percentage, since most of them are honestly too corrupt to hold an honest job, but it's enough of a percentage that any kids who MIGHT have been "saved" by a good teacher are going to whirl away down the same toilet bowl as the rest of them.

106

"We want one class to have a liberal education.  We want another class, a larger class of necessity, to forgo the privilege of liberal education to fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."  Woodrow Wilson

It's not broken, it's doing what it was designed to do.  It can't be "fixed".

107 Posted by: Jess at February 16, 2011 11:05 AM (6klwE)

I don't really have a problem with showing movies in the classroom as an instructional aide, given some specific parameters.  For instance, we watched (parts of) Name of the Rose in my Medieval History class (an elective my Sr. Year) when we were talking about European history during the Middle Ages- specifically Church Structure/the Inquisition/etc.  Also because we were nearing the Semester break, and we'd covered all the real material.

We watched movie versions of plays and books (after reading the real versions) in my various English classes.

I'm okay with both of those.

I do agree that using movies as your primary curriculum or to avoid having to teach is wrong and stupid.  Not to mention the fact that it doesn't really teach the kids.

108

And the congressman who made the remark about two supreme court justices having a relationship with the Koch brothers was.....Hank Johnson (D-Guam).

Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2011 11:19 AM (VuLos)

This is just the left's pre-emptive attack since Kagan needs to recuse herself from the Individual Mandate case, as she dealt with it as Solicitor General.  The left been pushing this insanity ever since it was mentioned that Kagan needs to back off on this case.  It's typical for them.  Perverted projection.

Of course, the GOP bears a decent amount of responsibility since Kagan never should have even gotten a vote in committee for her SCOTUS nomination.

109 how about defunding the "rubber rooms" if you can't teach because you can no longer legally be around children or you are just plain insane.... you shouldn't be drawing a salary to sit around all day.......

110 That's frustrating!  I did notice with my collie that when she was shaved (once for spaying and once for a hot spot) the fur came in very wiry and it seemed that that area stayed irritated longer.  Is he picking/chewing at it?  I hope it gets better soon. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 16, 2011 11:20 AM (pW2o

It's starts to heal, which makes it itch, which causes him to scoot on it and break open the scab thus starting the damn cycle all over again. 

111 And the congressman who made the remark about two supreme court justices having a relationship with the Koch brothers was.....Hank Johnson (D-Guam).

Big surprise that the CBC is involved with this kind of crap.  Can we send him on a "fact-finding mission" to Antarctica, pls?

112 The teachers do care about the kids, but their hands are completely tied by the districts, the unions, and NCLB (which, of course, they blame on Bush instead of Kennedy). And it gets insane in special ed because of the lawyers. I know a ton of teachers. They spend little time discussing their classes. It's all the external crap they have to deal with. My pet peeve is class size. You overload the teachers with crap work so they agitate for smaller class sizes. That means more teachers. Instead of getting the top 100 teachers, say, in your district, now your kids are learning from the top 200. Well, not really. The burnout rate is extraordinary (see the aforementioned crap). You really want to teach? Sure, as long as you do x, y, and z. The ones who make it have an extraordinary capacity for taking bullshit, not necessarily for teaching.

113 Wasserman-Bitch is now questioning Cuccinelli.  He's batting her around like a mouse.

114 tami can you put some vaseline on it? not enough to ruin the house but enough to keep his skin from drying out?

115

I don't know how anyone starts a business these days. The regulations and restrictions mounted on top by the local/state/national government are so over-whelming.  yet these same big government types label anyone who dare try to make a buck as evil and greedy.  Meanwhile, the same greedy government will happily take the fruits of your labor-- &without a “thank you”, no less. Meanwhile, if you have a choice plump job WITH the government you are safe and sound.  No risk.  No shared sacrifice.

 

116 Posted by: Jess at February 16, 2011 11:13 AM (6klwE)

Well, this is something along the lines of the third big budget cut in as many years, so I'm guessing they've pared down where they can- if nothing else, the Teachers are unionized and can make life a living heck for the School Board and the Texas Board of Education if Admin/Facilities aren't feeling a similar level of pain.

Frankly, I agree with you, though, the first place to look at cuts is Admin and equipment (Promethean Boards my be cool, but they're hardly necessary), then at Extra-Curricular activities.  This may shock my fellow Texans, but Sports (including Football) needs to be part of those cuts, too.  I don't know that the programs would need to be completely disbanded, but some severe cuts in coach pay, no new uniforms as long as the old ones will suffice, etc.  I think most kids already buy their own pads, so that's not really something you could cut.

117 Wasserman-Bitch is now questioning Cuccinelli.  He's batting her around like a mouse.

Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2011 11:28 AM (VuLos)

Cuccinelli is one sharp dude.  I like him a lot.  He reminds me of Rudy, who I also think is very sharp.  If Rudy wasn't squishy on some social issues and illegals, he would be perfect.  I don't know all of Cuccinelli's views, but I think he's much better on those issues - though I haven't really heard him speak about much outside of his state's suit.  Very, very impressive guy.

And Wasserman-Shmuck is one of the most despicable Congress critters around.  She's a mini-pelosi who's even more annoying, if that's even possible.

118
can you put some vaseline on it? not enough to ruin the house but enough to keep his skin from drying out?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at February 16, 2011 11:28 AM (eOXTH)

He has meds/lotions/potions that are suppose to make it heal and prevent dryness....they do to a certain point.  Then he scrapes it off.  I've tried putting a big bandaid on it so he can't scrape it off....he scrapes the bandaid off. 

119 114 Wasserman-Bitch is now questioning Cuccinelli.  He's batting her around like a mouse.

Posted by: Tami at February 16, 2011 11:28 AM (VuLos)

I don't know how you stomach listening to her.  She gives me a headache.

120 I went to school in one of the richest public school districts in the country, where teachers can easily make six figures.  Last year they had a one day strike to protest not getting a pay raise.

121 allen extra curricular activities are paid for by the parents/guardians of the participants.....boosters fund raise like crazy to keep these programs going.....i don't know about where you live but the head coaches here have to teach at the school... the assistants are volunteers, usually a student teacher...and the head coach makes a whopping 5k more a year.....

122 Posted by: JP at February 16, 2011 11:33 AM (dYR95)

And they love to tout out "I don't get paid for a single day I don't work!"  like that's something the rest of us don't have to put up with (and before you claim PTO is getting paid for not working, remember that Teachers also get Sick Days and Personal Days.).

Or, "I don't get paid a year's salary for working 9 months, they just split up my 9 month salary over 12 months."

Umm... okay.  You're still pulling a paycheck for 12 months and only working for 9.  That indicates "Summer Job" to me if you're having trouble making ends meet.

123 Oh noez!  The Koch brothers and the tea party.  I'm obsessed!  I'm scared!  They are racists who should be denied acces to free speech!  I love George Soros.

124

 This may shock my fellow Texans, but Sports (including Football) needs to be part of those cuts, too.

I've often said that the first penalty I would lay on an underperforming school is an abolishment of the sports programs until the academic peformance improves. Not a curtailment; a complete abolishment. No football, basketball, baseball, swimming, volleyball, soccer, or anything. And no "band" -- institute a proper academic music program instead, and have the same academic standards for that. No cheerleaders. No track. Nothing, until the academic performance rises above some reasonable minimum standard.

It's probably a foolish dream in a sports-mad America (and Red State types would probably howl louder than Blue Staters).

 

125 I'll believe .. "It's for the Children" ... when the kids are walking out of the school with a check in their hands.

126 Cuccinelli is one sharp dude.  I like him a lot.

He said at the beginning of the hearing that he was an engineer before he 'went to the dark side and attended law school.'

That's a powerful combo.

127

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 16, 2011 11:22 AM (8y9MW)

I think it really depends on the purpose of the movie.  Your mention of watching film versions of plays you'd read is one case where I think a movie can be a solid instructional tool.  It's too expensive to take multiple classes to a live performance of MacBeth or Cyrano de Bergerac, but seeing great works of playwriting actually performed is so key to really understanding what you've read that watching a (QUALITY) dramatization of the material is perfectly okay with me.  For example, I'd have no problem with students watching Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing after they've read the play itself; it helps put the story in a visual context, and helps overcome the "language barrier" that so many people associate with Shakespeare's Elizabethan english. 

I also don't mind if kids watch movies at the very end of the year as a kind of send-off to the school year.  When you've covered all the academic bases and taken your exams, I don't think there's a big problem with everyone voting to watch The Dark Crystal during math class.  Especially if students who would rather read or study for other classes are given the opportunity to do so.

My problem is when movies are used strictly as a sop to keep children occupied so teachers can either A) avoid teaching, or B) do work other than instruction.  There's absolutely no educational value in watching Finding Nemo during classtime, though I know that schools would claim it's "a fascinating and fun exploration of the marine environment that puts our planet's delicate aquatic ecosystems and their inhabitants in a relatable context." 

Yes.  And Bambi is an argument for gun control.  Whatever.

In 8th grade my social studies/history class watched Gone With the Wind during our unit on the Civil War.  We spent TWO DAYS watching it.  That was when I realized how absolutely ridiculous my education was.  I didn't even bother watching.  I just sat there and worked on my math homework.  I'd already watched Ken Burn's The Civil War with my family more than once; I was a little more interested in the Twentieth Maine's stand on Little Round Top than I was in Scarlett O'Hara's insufferable narcissism. 

128

I don't know how you stomach listening to her.  She gives me a headache.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 16, 2011 11:32 AM (UOM4

Mute...unmute...mute...unmute.

129 I don't know if anyone had mentioned this, but when David Gelernter and some other mathematicians complained about the way math was being taught in schools, someone speaking for the math teachers replied, "Well, they might be mathematicians, but we're math educators..."

130 Posted by: phoenixgirl at February 16, 2011 11:36 AM (eOXTH)

In Texas, a non-varsity, non-football assistant coach gets an extra $3000.00/yr.  It goes up as you get closer to Varsity Football Head Coach.  Not to mention the fact they just get paid more anyway (yes, in violation of the law.  They're the government, though, so who's going to enforce the law?)

In my school district (and this may differ across Texas due to our Independent School District model) every extra-curricular activity received an official budget, and money from fundraisers was always for "non-core" functions.  So, Football got money for their facilities, their equipment, normal school buses for away-games, etc.  The Band got money for music, buses for away games, etc.  Even the drama club got actual, official, from-the-school board money.  The only time we had fund-raisers was to pay our way to competitions, or if we wanted charter buses instead of basic school buses for some kind of trip.  Even when we needed new instruments/uniforms the Tax Payer was on the hook for it.

So, yes, a lot of that can be cut, and they could really run to the "fund-raiser only" model.

131 Posted by: Monty at February 16, 2011 11:37 AM (4Pleu)

LOL Monty, one of the things I got howled at here by the Morons for was recommending eliminating ALL sports in ALL schools period. I would place sports activities into private clubs sort of like the soccer clubs in England.

Want to participate in Football? Join your local city youth league team. There is no reason the tax payers should be funding this. What the High Schools and Colleges have become are farm clubs for the pro teams.

This would also temporarily eliminate the title XI mess the government has called into being. I say temporarily because I am sure the courts would then find some way to intrude on private sports clubs.

132 I think movies in classrooms are fine for things like certain science classes, especially "big biology" (ecology, field biology, animal behavior) and literature.  In some ways they're a better use of time than field trips. 

Most of my teachers in school (all publics) were uninspiring, but I had an excellent high school literature teacher (really he was professor quality) who taught us literature in context of what was going on in society at the time, including visual and performing arts and a smattering of history/politics.  It was kind of a "Connections" approach to teaching (or "Great Books" approach).  He also gave us a two week segment on cinema, where I was exposed to Leni Riefenstahl, Fellini, S. Eisentein, and the like.  It was a great experience. 

But showing movies or television shows without analysis or context seem like lazy teaching to me. 

133 Public anything is doomed to failure.

134

You don't really learn anything, you just discuss your opinions of whatever is the topic at hand.

Posted by: AmishDude

This.  Until we can get a totally new paradigm at the political level and remove the public sector unions, public schools can be cheaply replaced by blogs.

135 In 8th grade my social studies/history class watched Gone With the Wind during our unit on the Civil War.  We spent TWO DAYS watching it.

We did exactly the same thing, except that our school periods were short enough it took us 3 days.  And the room was kept dark enough that I couldn't do other homework or (my preferred distraction) read whatever novel I'd taken to school that day.  So, mostly, I slept.

I didn't normally sleep in school, but there were times it was the only way to preserve my sanity.  I was in the back of the classroom and getting one of the best grades in the class.  If my teacher noticed, he didn't say anything.

136 Tami,
One (two) last thought about your lab's boo-boo.  Try getting him an assortment of busy balls (kongs and the like) to distract him whenever he seems interested in his sore spot.  And, if you can, try crating him whenever someone's not around to watch him.  If he's using scooting to scratch his itch, you might have luck breaking the pattern by not giving him room to roam. 

137 All this talk of watching movies in school. One thing is for damn sure. It should be illegal for ANY movie to be shown as a "history" teaching aid.

The only way I would continuance such a thing is to take the movie and show it after studying the actual history subject and then explain why the movie is mostly a lie.

I would also include episodes of the History Channel with that.

138 Identify, indict, prosecute and execute the communists amongst us and our world will improve immediately.  The Unions are a great place to start.  If we are not willing to do this, then open war with them is inevitable.  I suspect will look back and wonder why we didn't do the easy thing when we had the chance.

139 I wish there was a web site that published the SAT and GRE sores of the public school teachers

140 If he's using scooting to scratch his itch, you might have luck breaking the pattern by not giving him room to roam. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 16, 2011 11:47 AM (pW2o

Yeah, I think you may be right.  Although, crating a 10 yr. old lab that's never been crated may be a challenge.

141 You can't do anything? Its either teaching or marketing for you.

142 Posted by: Vic at February 16, 2011 11:48 AM (M9Ie6)

The most recent Alamo movie was actually pretty historically accurate.  But, by and large, you're right.  The fact is that the only movies that stay "true" to their material tend to be movie versions of plays- and then they have to be done by someone who's willing to forgo any kind of "blockbuster" status.  Virtually any Shakespearean play done by Kenneth Branaugh falls into this status.  As do all the movie versions of Oedipus Rex or Antigone that I've seen.

For History/Social Studies?  Virtually no bearing on reality.  Science?  Hit or miss, but the good ones are boring enough that you're better off doing research projects/demonstrations/experiments than wasting the classes time with the movie.

143 You can't do anything? Its either teaching or marketing for you.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 16, 2011 11:51 AM (SJ6/3)

Or Dem politics.

144 Let's face it, the public schools are just day care centers for the  6 - 18 year old set.  The undergraduate colleges are nursery schools.  (Holding pens for the kids until Mommy can retire and they can move into her basement.)

145 You can't do anything? Its either teaching or marketing for you.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 16, 2011 11:51 AM (SJ6/3)

Or Dem politics.

Posted by: Alvin Greene at February 16, 2011 11:53 AM (N49h9)

Or Acting/Singing (especially pop-culture movies/songs).

146 I'm sure y'all have solved all the public school ills by now, so will add 2 things that hopefully haven't been covered yet:
 
Last year the NEA had Alinsky's Rules For Radicals on their recommended reading list.
 
mmmm mmmm mmmm
 
Any questions class?

147 Oh goody....rocket scientist, Sheila Jackson Lee now up....and damnit....Cuccinelli had to leave.

148 Is that C-Spam Tami?

149 You can't do anything? Its either teaching or marketing for you.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 16, 2011 11:51 AM (SJ6/3)

Or Dem politics.

Posted by: Alvin Greene at February 16, 2011 11:53 AM (N49h9)

Or Acting/Singing (especially pop-culture movies/songs).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 16, 2011 11:54 AM (8y9MW)

Or economics/NYT op-ed writing.

150

In 8th grade my social studies/history class watched Gone With the Wind during our unit on the Civil War.  We spent TWO DAYS watching it.

It could be worse. In a political science class in college we watched "Battle of Algiers".

Some 20-30 something twit female teacher who like Franz Fannon and the like.

 

No one was too happy when I pointed out what happened after the civil war and how the people they were cheering in this movie ended up being theocratic facists, so while they might hate colonialism, it was replaced by something far worse.

151

I must have been one of the lucky ones because I had a public school education and turned out all right. I can think of about five teachers I had in high school who were all really good, all in different subjects, and perhaps not surprisingly all were degreed in the subjects they taught. I think most importantly was that they were all strict but fair, they expected you to do your work, turn it in on time, and behave, and if you did those things they treated you like an adult.

152 There are so many failures with today's youth, its staggering.  The parents in this country, and others, suck....the schools suck.....and it's all in the name of 'the children' as they constantly get fucked by the system, their parents, the unions and the government.

It's quite sad.

153

Not all school teachers are bad. Many are great.  It's the Teacher's Union that is the problem. It's the anti-competitive, anti-parent, anti-child Teacher's Unions that are the cancer. Also, it's unsustainable ponzi scheme retirement perks that are bad. 

What ever happened to SHARED SACRIFICE?

154 sock off

155 Yeah, I think you may be right.  Although, crating a 10 yr. old lab that's never been crated may be a challenge.

OK... yeah, that would be hard.

Maybe you could start him out in a small bedroom (one with really limited floorspace) or bathroom, with you hanging out with him so he knows it's not a punishment. 

156

New movie coming out later this year, dealing with a colonial girl held captive by Iroquois, then escaping 9 years later.  True story.  Apparently the production team fired the initial "professional" screen-writing efforts, and did it themselves, because Hollywood tried to portray the Indians as innocent victims instead of brutal savages. 

Should be interesting.... 

157 Iran has 2 warships headed for the Suez.  Israel no likey.

158 OT - Iranian Provocation (Rush just mentioned it)

UPDATE 1-Israel: Iran war ships to transit Suez for Syria

JERUSALEM Feb 16 (Reuters) - Two Iranian war ships planned to sail through the Suez canal en route to Syria on Wednesday, Israel's foreign minister said, describing the move as a "provocation" by Tehran.

Iran's semi-official Fars news agency had reported on Jan. 26 that Iranian navy cadets had been dispatched on a year-long training mission going via the Gulf of Aden into the Red Sea and on through the Suez Canal to the Mediterranean Sea.

159 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 16, 2011 11:52 AM (8y9MW)

I don't recall ever seeing a "historical" movie that was accurate historically. Someone mentioned watching GWTW above. The major thrust of that movie was that it was the first full length soap opera. I will not go into all of the other inaccuracies because the post would be as long as the movie.

160 77 Mental arithmetic:

Pivide 347,264 by 16

Do this in your head and provide the answer.

How many can do this? how many of our children can do this?

This was common practice standing before the class in the 1800's

You took this problem from the book Little Town on the Prairie by Laura Ingalls Wilder. There was a chapter called "School Exhibition" near the end of the book where this problem was featured.

And I know this because...I am a Book Geek.

161 That is not a "teacher" problem.  That is not a "school" problem.  That is a "student" problem.  That is a "home" problem. 

Posted by: Hal at February 16, 2011 11:05 AM 

  I taught in the inner city schools for years.  Yes the parents were negligent but I also blame the teachers who allowed these kids to pass.  It begins at the primary level K-3.  Kids move up without having the basic skills because the teachers don't want to spend the extra time required and the school system wants to look good.  When I taught elementary school I had 30+ students in every class, no aide, I was expected to be in my classroom a half an hour before and after school, and I had to take my turn with lunch and recess duties.  Did I have kids who acted out?  Heck yeah I did.  I had students whose mothers were hookers, fathers unknown, parents who were druggies, kids in foster homes, etc.  But no one passed my grade without learning what they needed.

162 Posted by: Vic at February 16, 2011 12:14 PM (M9Ie6)

Like I said, the most recent Alamo movie was pretty accurate.  It even includes things that only come to us through "tradition."  That is, things people kind of think happened, but aren't sure.

At no point did I see anything that was just purely made-up, though.  Well.  The Davey Crocket plays the violin thing was made up, but that's a fairly minor quibble.

163 Okay, full disclosure: I just graduated with an AYA Integrated Social Studies undergrad (history/econ/government/etc grades 7-12 in Ohio). What I have to say on this subject is based on my methods and student teaching in an inner-city school in Toledo, OH.

Basically, there's a myriad of problems, and the school side is just one side of it. You've pretty much got a perfect storm of stupid on the part of a lot of parents (particularly inner-city), the schools (that's teachers, union, and admin), and politicians. And a lot of it is interconnected snowballing that's been going on for a few generations. By this point, it's almost worth scrapping the whole thing and starting over in a lot of areas.

One of the big problems, at least from my observation, is a combination of teachers who suck/don't care and the whole not being able to get rid of them thing.  There are plenty of good teachers looking to get jobs, if my cohort is any indication, but we had the awesome luck of graduating when every district, and a lot of private schools, were just eliminating vacated positions (a lot of the hippeis who wanted to avoid the draft and got stuck with teaching are either hitting or about to hit their max retirement bonuses) and downsizing overall. However, a lot of these folks are gonna be off the potential market and doing other things by the time the positions open thanks to 2 year, nonrenewable provisional licensure (we're already a year and a quarter in; also DUMBEST QUALITY CONTROL MEASURE EVER, NCLB). This would be less of a problem if there were more reciprocity agreements between states, but as it is, you're paying $80-$300 just for each state's license if you want to look at jobs in another state, plus whatever tests/classes and background checks the other state wants outsiders to take. This may be fine for established teachers who want to move, but it kills the potential pool when you're fresh out of the gate, in massive debt due to student loans, and fucked because the government bought out your loan with the Obamacare provision and tripped your minimum payment (my lendors decided to jump onto that boat before that deadline struck).

Basically, we need actual individual accountability standards that work; rather than the 'oh the entire school sucks, so we're gonna fire EVERYONE, but then rehire the ones who've been here for 30 years, regardless of their capabilities' blanket firing/rehiring system we have now. That way, we'll hopefully weed out the bad ones, and open it up for the good ones.

However, it won't do much good without a cultural overhaul. For example, I'm not sure how to pull off individual accountability when you have situations like 1/4 of the seniors in a high school have not passed a class since 3rd grade; and this having gone on for so long that it's only noteworthy to people like student teachers, who just came in from the outside.

One thing I tell everyone that can go a ways to start fixing problems is to look at what you're actually voting for when they want a new tax levee. I've noticed that a lot of the time they talking heads the districts trot out will go off on how its "for the chilren", but it'll actually be going to administrative overhead. A lot of the states, like Ohio, require that the tax levees say exactly what the money is going toward. The district I graduated from has gotten nutorious for doing stuff like this, and people were lazy enough to let them get away with it forever. The teachers actually are paid kinda crap in that district: lowest wages in Ohio across the board but did better than a lot of other districts on quality of education, and raises haven't matched inflation in over 15 years. But whenever a tax levee would come up: "ZOMG ITS TO PAY TEACHERS FOR BETTER EDUCATION FOR THE CHILREN"; but when you read the legislation, it's going to administration overhead or to fund something like an 10th free ride high school golf team and its new varsity clone, or to hire 8 new secretaries for each of the top 3 admin people in the district. A lot of people were surprised (I wasn't, because I was actually reading these things) when the admin had a new building built for them that costed several millions of dollars BEFORE they put a private art gallery in it. As a result, when the past few levees came about that was actually to make teacher's wages match inflation but not surpass it, and to maintain the buses and schools, nobody believed that's what it was for.  So, now we have basically an inverse in this district of what we should have (and if TPS is any indication, this holds true a lot of places). So now, the custodians are trying to figure out how to keep my old high school from falling apart at the seams.

Since each district is so different, learn what the situations are within the district, what the levee is actually for (READ IT, PREFERABLY BEFOREHAND; DON'T LISTEN TO THE P.R. PEOPLE THAT WERE HIRED TO SPOUT CRAP ON TV), and vote accordingly.  Though, I suspect I'm mostly preaching to the coir on this point, on this blog.

164 151

It could be worse. In a political science class in college we watched "Battle of Algiers".

Good movie, but transparent in its attempt to paint the revolutionaries putting bombs in coffee shops as a good thing while making the French troops into the devil for "retasking" a revolutionary's explosive after he was caught.

At least it wasn't Salvador, which was laughably bad in portraying the US-supported Salvadorian government as thugs while showing the opposing side, propped up by Nicaraguan communists in reality, as poor peasants kissing their girlfriends goodbye as they go off to war with an outdated rifle.

165 LOL Monty, one of the things I got howled at here by the Morons for was recommending eliminating ALL sports in ALL schools period. I would place sports activities into private clubs sort of like the soccer clubs in England.

Vic, look no further than Baltimore MD for this model.  None of the public high schools here have swim teams.  Michael Phelps graduated from a public High school without a swim team.  The club swimming here is CRAZY!  There are swimming clubs everywhere and people actually move here to enroll their kids at NBAC (North Baltimore Aquatic club-Phelps now owns it).  We've had several olympians other than Phelps come out of here in the past 15 years.  It's not hurting at all and no taxpayer money funds it either.

166 The state is out of money?  Fuck you, pay me.

Foreclosed homes produce no property tax revenue?  Fuck you, pay me.

With a four years degree in applied horseshit, we could not get a job anywhere EXCEPT in a school system?  Fuck you, pay me.

Our health care and pension benefits are bankrupting the city and state?  That's right-Fuck you, pay me.


For the children.

P.S. Probably 75% of the kids in my daughter's preschool have moms who teach in the public school system here.  Governor Cuomo is apparently serious about cutting school aid to the city.  This ought to be interesting.

167 Maybe you could start him out in a small bedroom (one with really limited floorspace) or bathroom, with you hanging out with him so he knows it's not a punishment. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 16, 2011 12:08 PM (pW2o

I may just challenge him to a cage match and get it over with!

168 Posted by: Lindsey Grahamnesty licking Rahm Emanuel's salty shaven balls at February 16, 2011 10:23 AM (ItFBr)

No, the school system was designed, from its outset, not to educate, but to exert control over the population. So, yes, we must fix the schools, and no, fiddling around at the margins won't do shit,. It must be completely redone, otherwise the beast simply self-corrects back to its original mission.

169 Also, this link is a good one to see some of the history of education in our country. Especially eye-opening is what it was like pre-Civil War.

http://tinyurl.com/4zjoj

170 Two Iranian war ships planned to sail through the Suez canal en route to Syria on Wednesday, Israel's foreign minister said, describing the move as a "provocation" by Tehran.

Not acceptable.

Not, right, now...

My President won't say boo to your leaders and we all know it!

So, what?

I'll say it.  Go Green!

I know Persians!

Don't discount them!

Just because they are poets by nature does not mean that they are not warriors in their soul.

I so fervently hope for a new day when we can hear Persian voices, once again!

For most of my life, Iran has been under a black cloud of oppression of their own design.

So unfair!

These are a cultured and educated people!

I will always hate and fight against the Mullahs.

171 We've had several olympians other than Phelps come out of here in the past 15 years.  It's not hurting at all and no taxpayer money funds it either.

Yep, they should do that at every school for every sport.

172 This may shock my fellow Texans, but Sports (including Football) needs to be part of those cuts, too.

Where I am , there was a huge round of school building and expanding over the last decade. With each project came the attendant school referendum in order to raise the money for these projects. Oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the need for these expansions!

Every one of them came with shiny, gleaming new sport facilities! Apparently, Johnny just can't be taught anything without a new 5 million dollar gym add on. And wrestling room and glassed in weight room and artificial turf football field and ....

173 Foreclosed homes produce no property tax revenue?  Fuck you, pay me.

Just because there is nobody in a house doesn't mean that there is no property tax on it. Theoretically the banks must pay those taxes because at that point they own the house.  This is why they are always in a rush to get someone in it before the annual assessment is due. 

174 Ranba Ral -- the default position of most here is to vote NO

175

Please Google "The goals of an education" by S. I. Hayakawa - read and reflect.  Unfortunately, public education is moving further and further away from the realization of these stated goals amidst the mass confusion, by academicians as well as the general public, as to how to "right the ship."  The institution of public education is deeply ensconced in a fog of political correctness and a seemingly never ending transfer of parental responsibility to those who are attempting to edify our nation's youth.  I would submit that the inability of the institution to fulfill its role to a degree of general satisfaction is reflective of deeper cultural maladies, not the least of which is the demise of meaningful parental involvement in the educational process.  The lack of parental accountability in the process is in itself reflective of the erosion of the nuclear family as the tradtional purveyor of individual and group values (through which our youth historically have refracted what they learned at school to develope individual  methods of critical thinking).   Five to six classes a day, 30 to 35 students a class - public education is ill-equipped to undertake this awesome task, nor should they be expected to.  And yet, our litigious society is rife with examples of parents doing just that: suing schools and individual teachers for how their children "turn out."  Is there any wonder that teachers cling to their unions?  This is a cultural/spiritual issue.  Education is the cultural tail, and we are asking the tail to wag the dog.  The answer does not lie in developing another pedigogical approach (in 36 years of work in the classroom, I have been trained by a myriad of educational "experts" - e.g., ITIP, Vision, etc. -  all proclaiming that their philosophical flavor of the month would be the panacea for all that ails education), pumping abnormal amounts of money into the system for their implementation.  To even begin to think about solving what ails public education in America necessitates a return to a culture that profoundly involves parents in the process with a high degree of accountability, freeing teachers to reach the goals outlined by Mr. Hayakawa. 

"Parents are not raising their children - they are letting them grow up."

 

 

 

 

176 I was just arguing with a bunch of butthurt pro-union state employees who are crying on Facebook about Ohio's new proposed law that weakens public union collective bargaining, eliminates automatic 2-4% "step" pay increases, and makes them pay 20% of their health costs.

And surprise, surprise, here comes a teacher to give me the 'ol it's for the kids--I could have made more money in the private sector anyway combo.

Many jobs I could have chosen. And I don't know exactly what was meant by bringing public employees pay in line with the private sector, but I surely could've made more money elsewhere.

I'm a teacher because I felt compelled to be, becaus...e I care, because I think I can make a difference in my students' lives. I don't get paid extremely well, but have considered a solid pension as one of the few benefits of this profession. I mean seriously...police, firefighters, and teachers?

Get a little more creative, please.

I had this woman pretty pissed off my the time it was all said and done. Especially when I told her that an apples to apples comparison with private school teaching jobs reveals how generous public teachers' pay and benefits are.

I also threw her "for the children" bullshit back in her face by mentioning the debt burden we're piling on our kids.

What I didn't say, but wanted to, is that if you think you could have made more money in the private sector, then fucking go for it. You'll find that the real world operates very differently than the fantasy-land public employee job you currently hold.

I'm out there and so are most of you. It's fucking brutal. I had a pension until a couple of years ago. The company cut that off, laid some people off, froze the pay of those remaining, and the next year cut their 401k contributions.

As far as my part time freelance work, I lost $10,000 a year ago when my best client's business began to struggle and he couldn't afford to outsource his writing. So he went back to doing it himself, the way he had when he first started.

And yet these fucking public sector buttholes want to whine and cry because their gravy train--powered by people like me who have far less take home pay than they did a few years ago--is coming to an end.

177

This is why they are always in a rush in no hurry to actually foreclose on a huge number of properties, thus masking the real depths of the problem...

 

FIFY

178 And yet these fucking public sector buttholes want to whine and cry because their gravy train--powered by people like me who have far less take home pay than they did a few years ago--is coming to an end.

I'm public sector but I know better than to piss and moan about the pay freeze we're going into for the second straight year in my state. 

I like having a 40-hour work week in a secure job I like, or at least can tolerate, as opposed to having a really high salary but being expected to stay on call 24/7 and the possibility that I could come in one morning with no job.

179 I'm hearing an awful lot of excuses from teachers as to why the can't do their jobs.

Fine, don't then. Let's shut it down.

My whole damned life I've listened to those damned excuses. All my high-school and earlier teachers were useless or worse.  I followed the activities of the NEA and teachers' schools after high school and all I saw was agendas and really sick ideas about people.

The system is broken. The only thing it's good at is protecting itself from reform. If it won't change, it needs to be got rid of.

But we can't even defund stupid CPB, what the Hell chance to we have of getting rid of our (anti)education bureaucratic mess?

Instead, it will keep sucking our money, hindering education, and whining incessantly the whole time.

180

I like having a 40-hour work week in a secure job I like, or at least can tolerate, as opposed to having a really high salary but being expected to stay on call 24/7 and the possibility that I could come in one morning with no job.

And that's been the tradeoff for the last century or so, and worked well. Today, not so much.

PS - where are these "private sector" jobs that pay so much better?

181 PS - where are these "private sector" jobs that pay so much better?

In my field, which is IT, pretty much everywhere.

We have contract employees in my office which make a lot more than I do but are under intense stress and have the possibility of being transferred to another state on short notice.

In the 8 years I've been working with that particular firm, they've had 1 confirmed suicide of an on-site employee and what I suspect is a suicide by a former on-site employee as well as a lot of failed marriages.

182 If the MSM ever went after the public school systems for the massive sexual abuse that occurs with a quarter of the vigor they went after the Pedo-Priests with, public education would be over.

183 Hedgehog - growing up in Pittsburgh, we had both -- school sports and club (Athletic Associations) with the same coaches.  It was integrated; you learned how to tackle at gym class - then put the pads on after school at the WOAA and applied your knowledge.  Shame they couldn't do the same with academics.

184

"We have contract employees in my office which make a lot more than I do but are under intense stress and have the possibility of being transferred to another state on short notice."

In other words, you hear how much contract workers are paid, and assume that their take home pay is structured along your lines, and you freely admit you're not sure @ their job security, but you're sure they "make a lot more" than you do.

Uh, right...

185 In other words, you hear how much contract workers are paid, and assume that their take home pay is structured along your lines, and you freely admit you're not sure @ their job security, but you're sure they "make a lot more" than you do.

I'd heard about the pay they were making before I even knew they were the contractors at my office.  Someone I'd gone to school with a long time ago had been hired there and I was hearing about how much she was making before I realized it was not only the same company but that they were the people working on a different floor in my building.

I've also seen the invoices that the company charges my state for these employees' services.  I know these people only get a fraction of that amount, but it's a lot of damn money.


Their job security is generally very good, but you have to be willing to transfer wherever they have a contract with a state or municipality.  I'm from the Deep South and wouldn't handle a transfer to some of the sites where they've sent people from here, such as Montana, Wisconsin, Idaho, etc.  Several people quit rather than transfer their entire families to some of those states.

186 *wouldn't be able to handle a transfer* to some of the sites in question.

Being up in Helena, MN, for example, would drive me batty because I'm used to being in an area where it snows MAYBE once every few years.

187 Jess, don't get up Brandon's ass. He's being remarkably honest about why he took his job--the tradeoff between security, stability and job security and a private sector job at higher pay.

He's not bitching and moaning. He's being honest about why he took his job.

When some public school teacher tells me, "I could have made more money elsewhere," my response is, "No shit. Me, too. But that would have required traveling and a 65 hr work week. And that's not what I wanted, so I took lower pay. I made my choice and so did you. So fuck off with your crying."

There's no doubt in my mind I could double my earnings if I set my mind to it. But my family life would suffer, so I choose not to.

188 I always did  for the Children.

189 What rockhead said. For lack of funds and school we homeschooled. Wifey is finally free of this burden as our last child goes to high school. She can read and write. Not so good at maths. That goes for all four of them. Charter schools is the answer to the 'Merican edcational crisis. That and loose federal interference.

190 I think I'd have to echo retired's sentiment.  There is no quick fix, there is no "just do this" and all is well.  Charter schools are great, but they aren't the cure-all we seem to be stuck on finding.  The simple matter is that our cultural deterioration has much to do with the decline in public education as anything else, if not more.  The teacher unions and administrators are awful, to be sure.  And there are more than enough teachers, especially those being churned out as of late, that are so inculturated into PC nonsense and "get-ed-quick" schemes (like the aforementioned ITIP and Vision) that we aren't taking a long, hard look at the real source of the issues.

Kids "back in the day" had less to work with and yet learned more, even in public education.  This had nothing to do with the systems or teacher pay, or what have you, but with the culture in which they were raised.  Primarily, this was done through the home.  Even today, you see these effects in neighborhoods that are primarily Asian.  It is NOT genetic, but cultural.  Charter schools and private schools, it can be plausibly argued, are so successful because the kids that go there are the children of parents who are, in fact, involved, and are concerned and so are willing to sacrifice the money and time necessary to help the children succeed in school.  I think *that* has a greater causal relationship to the success of the average student in said institutions than simply "lack of federal interference."

At the same time, I am more than willing to give credit to such schools insofar as their freedom from government influence allows them to avoid the PC nonsense that would hurt the educational program of any student.  But I don't think it is reasonable or realistic to assert that only the absence of such interference leads to success in the educational setting.

the sinner,

Patrick

191

@14: "And the technology just doesn't exist [yet - if it ever even will] to turn IQ-80 children into IQ-100 children."

*ahem*

 

192 The teachers unions have done more to destroy the quality of education in this country! They along with the Democrat union lovers have changed our schools from houses of learning to leftist dens of social engineering. They aren't teaching American values either, they are promoting leftist, progressive thinking. They should not be teaching any sort of values, they should be teaching math, science, history, geography,etc. Ask your children if they can name any state capitols. Ask them to point out Europe on a map. Who was Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin, do they know? Probably not, instruction in those areas has been pushed aside to make room for social engineering. Wisconsin should fire every teacher who did not work today unless they can produce a doctors certificate confirming their illness.

193 thanks for sharing

194 Sockpuppet Reset