1 I don't understand what is so attractive about this.  What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?

2 Let me put my plan in you, 2.0.

3

Pence, Bolton, and Ryan have all lined up behind it.

 

4

Definitely far from perfect but they need to put the ball back into the Senate/O's hands.  If it does pass and the Senate rejects/tables it they need to walk away.  No more negotiating with themselves.

5 ...and when the whistle blows, over the top we go!

6 Best we can do?

And yet, it does nothing.

7 How about a 1 year budget with actual cuts?

8 4

Definitely far from perfect but they need to put the ball back into the Senate/O's hands.  If it does pass and the Senate rejects/tables it they need to walk away.  No more negotiating with themselves.

Posted by: nobama12 at July 27, 2011 04:59 PM (ykY2u)

But I thought they already did that with CCB? Boner's plan is the self-negotiation.

9 Gentlemen, the status quo is a plan, has always been a plan, and will always be a plan. No cutting in line as we enter the abbatoir.

10 "I don't understand what is so attractive about this. What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?" Maybe the second letter of the third and fifth word of each sentence spells "Average Joe?"

11 John Bolton and Allen West.

12 At least its not Obama's plan.  Oh wait, what plan?

13 And yet, it does nothing.

I'm waiting for m80'sbabe to give some specifics

14 Well i hear they are lining up, West is on board, it may not even be close. Just lay it on us, how much does my taxes increase when some stupid 6 person hen meet deems it so?

15 Oh yes, and Paul Ryan.

16 Best that we can do?

More like.
"We're tired and scared so we give up!
Don't be mean media...Please....
Look look we're caving...
Say how cool sensible we are and how much this is a big win for us!"

17 I can't wait until the Senate tables this thing, and then we get to sit here and watch the same people sell to us how we need to pass the even crappier plan in order to appease the radical left. This is the best we can do untill we can't, and then it's something even worse that suddenly becomes the best. And, all along, we should just go along with it because hey, you just should.

18 I'm thinking it's all about calling the veto bluff of the only adult (who hasn't submitted a plan) in the room.

19 Maybe the second letter of the third and fifth word of each sentence spells "Average Joe?"

Now that's funny.

20 Holy shit on a seabiscuit. "The Pirates of Penzance" had more relevant social criticism than this farce, and better music too.

21 <sub>"I don't understand what is so attractive about this. What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?"

Maybe the second letter of the third and fifth word of each sentence spells "Average Joe?"</sub>

Thread winnah!!! :--)

22 Oh, and won't it be sweet when that committee of 12 raises taxes. But don't worry, it's the best we can do.

23 3 Pence, Bolton, and Ryan have all lined up behind it.

Though Pence and Ryan have a number of caveats. In Pence's floor speech today, it sounds like one of the biggest pluses to him is the vote for a BBA.

24
How much increase in debt limit???

25 and when the whistle blows, over the top we go!

Posted by: F--- Nevada! (I'm AoSHQ's DarkLord©, and I approve this message)

 

If' it's all the same to you, private Baldrick and I will remain here and guard the trench. Wouldn't want to see it nicked whilst you're away.

26 Well, America, we are now printing your "Dole" business cards. Welcome to the club.

27 Don't call my bluff! These are the last concessions you'll get from us. ...today.

28 What about the lightbulbs?

29 What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?

Political reality

30 So the total savings over 10 years is 2/3rds of this years deficit.

woot.

31 And Mike Pence.

32 Here's what makes it attractive:  Obama's gonna have to deal with this issue again before the 2012 elections.

33 Well, America, we are now printing your "Dole" business cards. Welcome to the club. We're having trouble swiping toilet paper through the card reader.

34 Yep, best we can not do with a party full of spineless asswipes. But it doesn't matter.

We are currently in great depression 2.0. Prepare for great collapse 1.0.

35 Does it defund planned parenthood?

36 I see this that we have a 4:2 advantage on this: We have: House, the debt ceiling itself, the majority of the people and the States They have: Senate and the President We need to get the States beating a BBA drum via constitutional convention, if necessary, since they all have a BBA and the Federal Govt exists because of them. They are the mightiest pillar and it is time they start exercising their power.

37
my dream scenario:

--Boehner's shitty plan passes with with all GOP and lots of Democrats in the House
-- Passes in the Senate
-- Obama vetoes it
-- chaos hilarity ensues
--Obama cooked

38 33 Here's what makes it attractive:  Obama's gonna have to deal with this issue again before the 2012 elections.

Posted by: Nickie Goomba at July 27, 2011 05:06 PM (jeLTI)

So that's when the GOP will grow some balls, stiffen their spine, and harden that upper lip?

39 What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?

Political reality

Posted by: pep

Putting forward a plan that enables a continuation of an inflated crisis and simultaneously increases yet another crises (debt reating threatened because we are not dealing with our debt) is political reality?

40 $20B in real cuts upfront. From what baseline? What does Lowry mean by "real"? 

41 39
my dream scenario:

--Boehner's shitty plan passes with with all GOP and lots of Democrats in the House
-- Passes in the Senate
-- Obama vetoes it
-- chaos hilarity ensues
--Obama cooked

Works for me.

42 That's what I told my wife last night. It didn't go over so well then either

43

 Here's what makes it attractive:  Obama's gonna have to deal with this issue again before the 2012 elections.

--------------

So are the Republicans. They've been so skillful so far......

44 Oh, and John Boehner.  Let us not forget John Boehner.

45 Here's what makes it attractive:  Obama's gonna have to deal with this issue again before the 2012 elections.

Then just do that with a clean debt ceiling increase of 300B and defy Barry to veto it.  So the negotiations can continue.  And then maybe another.  Don't pretend to be cutting when you're not.

46 You know what? This probably is the best we can do with only 1/2 of one third of the federal government in our control. It's going to be all about the primaries next year. THEN we can really start holding some feet to the fire and get real changes made. Otherwise it is just one pissing match after another.

47 Obama's gonna have to deal with this issue again before the 2012 elections. True. And the same arguments will arise, primarily Republicans saying "We must eventually raise the debt limit! To refuse is not a serious position." So, four more years.

48

Hobbits pwn.

49 'Dis means you pay my mortgage now, right?  And buy me some gas?  And...and a wide screen, one of those LED jobs.  Don' forget to add a DirectTV subscription too, 'cause a wide screen ain't worth shit if you don' have no service.  See what I'm sayin'?

50 I swear, next year we're getting serious about the deficit.

51 Ugh, $20billion? Start again. Or better yet, just give Obama a goddamned 6 month debt limit increase, and spend the next 6 months crafting a bill that will immediately cut 10% of discretionary spending. Oh wait, spend that 6 months learning how to negotiate and pass a bill that's double that, 20% cuts, so that the Senate will meet in the middle. What a fucking monkey circus.

52 Otherwise it is just one pissing match after another. Posted by: Robin at July 27, 2011 05:08 PM (25gwB) Well I drink coffee and water all day and night long, so just point me in the right direction

53
Anyone know how much Boehner is giving to Obama?

54 A second plan sent to the Senate to be tabled by the no-plan crew? Isn't there an old saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?" Just sayin.

55 Putting forward a plan that enables a continuation of an inflated crisis and simultaneously increases yet another crises (debt reating threatened because we are not dealing with our debt) is political reality?

No, recognizing that we need to control other parts of the government to really affect things, and designing a long term strategy to achieve it is.

56 If the Republicans are too scared of not raising the debt ceiling with no imminent elections this year, how the hell are they going to credibly threaten not to raise it in an election year?

57 Comrade Obama wants to spend $3.762 trillion and we said, whoa, there, Sparky! Not a dime over $3.742 trillion!

58
$917B in cuts, but how much increase in debt?

59 "The best lipstick..."

Try these shades:

These are currently the top links on the right column at Drudge:   

REID VOWS TO KILL HOUSE GOP DEBT PLAN...

Dem lawmaker: 'Nobody I know' has seen Reid plan...

Al Franken joshes on Senate floor: 'WELCOME TERRORISTS'...

House Democratic leader urges Obama to raise debt ceiling without Congressional approval...

FLASHBACK: 'The idea of doing things on my own is very tempting'...

Obama 'Threatens Veto' of House Plan...


JEF, Dingy Harry and the D's are scared ... they have nothing.

It is simply a contest of wills.

Get a good bill, pass it, then drop it on Dingy Harry and JEF.

Then, make sure the world knows.

Keep up the pressure. Do not stop, do not waiver, do not retreat. Do not worry about the MSM.

60 A second plan sent to the Senate to be tabled by the no-plan crew? Isn't there an old saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?" Just sayin.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at July 27, 2011 05:10 PM (0M3AQ)

it's what they are kinda angling for

61 So in the time it took to produce that modified POS "Boehner/Obama Plan," we spent the $20 billion in "cuts" (since all beyond that is make-believe)?

Awesome.

Did no one tell D.C. that there would be math?

62 Has War changed his nick?

63 Thanks to the virtual world, today's hyperinflation is environmentally friendly. We can just say trillions of new dollars exist, and *poof* they do. We can flood the M1 supply and ruin our currency and destroy our economy without hurting a single tree.

That's the progress in progressive.

64 $20 billion? That's the most they could find?

Forget about what the Dems would accept. That's the best the GOP can up with? Again, it's less than the Ryan Plan. Shouldn't the FY-12 savings in Ryan be the starting point?

Ridiculous.

65 I'm with Tard. Big Fucking Deal. Pass a plan and the Senate tables it. Reid bad mouths it, Obama demagogues it and demands compromise while bringing precisely Jack Shit to the table.

Show us your plan, Skippy.

66 Corn suit Mitt is like an Oompah-Lompah of sinister staple crops.

Oh, and one does not simply walk into Mordor, but one can compromise into a disaster. Or something. Is it 5:00 yet?

67 No, recognizing that we need to control other parts of the government to really affect things, and designing a long term strategy to achieve it is.

Posted by: pep

 

I keep showing up, but you don't seem to pay attention. there is no long term strategy to deal with this. We would need the House, the presidency AND a filibuster proof majority.

68 $20 billion over how many ice ages?

69 how the hell are they going to credibly threaten not to raise it in an election year? Because next year it's their election.

70 55 Anyone know how much Boehner is giving to Obama?

It was $900B.

71 Or better yet, just stop coming up with plans until the Senate passes one. Fuck. I don't think the White House ever believed in a million years (btw, the scheduled date of actual cuts in the budget) this talk of default would hurt him publicly, what with the revisionist history of 1996, but I think that this current debate has been nearly fatal to his image. So, screw it. Boehner's looking like a chump for passing crappy bills. Just stop.

72 And......its over. Enjoy your peace.

Princess Isabelle: The king desires peace.
William Wallace: Longshanks desires peace?
Princess Isabelle: He declares it to me, I swear it. He proposes that you withdraw your attack. In return he grants you title, estates, and this chest of gold which I am to pay to you personally.
William Wallace: A lordship and titles. Gold. That I should become Judas?
Princess Isabelle: Peace is made in such ways.
William Wallace: Slaves are made in such ways. The last time Longshanks spoke of peace I was a boy. And many Scottish nobles, who would not be slaves, were lured by him under a flag of truce to a barn, where he had them hanged. I was very young, but I remember Longshanks' notion of peace.

73 I'm still waiting on some real numbers. Lowry can't add to save his life.

74 It was $900B.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 27, 2011 05:13 PM (o2lIv)

which will be surprising if they don't go through it before February

75 So McCartle thinks its a big deal with Wall Street and the market. I've got some news for her, "the Market", contrary to MFM, is NOT the economy. It is not even a good indicator of the economy.

It is an indicator of what speculators and institutional investors are doing on a grab bag of stocks that some so-called expert has selected to meet their ideas of what they wish to see.

We already know what investors think of T-Bills. They ain't buying them at government issued returns. Imagine that.

76

IMO, and I'll admit I'm really getting tired of all the bullshit from both sides in this, we're not going to get anything at all out of this. Government will still keep growing, Boehner will still cry and our taxes are still going up.

And nothing, nothing will be cut.

If there's a bright side to this, it will be that it will energize us Tea Party Knuckle-Draggers to continue what we started last November. We've proven we have the balls for a fight and have exposed teh Pubbie standard bearers as the RINOs we knew they always were. It's possible that Boehner and a few other stalwarts in the House will be primaried, which is quite fappable.

We need to remember that the midterms were just the beginning. We're in Washington and inside the heads of the Progs, and they know it.

A storm's a'comin'...

77


I don't understand what is so attractive about this.  What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?


Taiwan.

If we well and truly default, it's not just banks taking the hit, it's China and Europe.  As with TARP, the "responsible adults" see that a shooting war (not agaisnt us, but by proxy) would be the result of actually defaulting.  Or a serious trade war that would shutter American businesses by the score.
 

78
It was $900B.

Alright, thanks. So it's 1-for-1 deal, sorta? Except that Obama gets his 1 now, and we get our 1 over the next 10 years?

79 The best political ad of the decade. Make sure to watch it to the end.

http://tinyurl.com/3su6soe

80 I'll ask the same question that I asked earlier today, to which I received no answer.  If the outyear spending is so malleable as we keep hearing, then isn't the best strategy to do whatever it takes to get control of the Senate and the Presidency, and then alter things to do as we think best?  The next year isn't the issue;  the next decade is.

81 You know, since we've already shown we will not shut the government down, we've pretty much given up our leverage.

82 What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?

Political reality

Posted by: pep at July 27, 2011 05:06 PM (6TB1Z)

 

This.  Plus, this is going to either be voted down in the senate or vetoed by the president.  Dick and the dems have absolutely no intention of passing and signing any repub plan, period.   That's been the strategy all along.

All of this is just a smoke-screen. 

 

 

83

Oh yes, and Paul Ryan.

undead takes a swing at being funny again and throws his bat in the outfield stands.

84
And......its over. Enjoy your peace.

I think you mean peas.

85 70 $20 billion over how many ice ages?

Upfront

86 No, recognizing that we need to control other parts of the government to really affect things, and designing a long term strategy to achieve it is.

Unless we pick up 13+(less RINOs) Senate seats this election, the Debt Ceiling is our only leverage, and we only have it when the money is running out. 

I swear, if Boehner give Barry a bump that will last until after the election I'm going to have an aneurysm.

87

This is indeed ridiculous. How do we know Toonces won't sign any damned thing on his desk Monday? He has the cover he needs from his loony base:"These Teabaggers were pointing a gun at Grandma so I had to agree."

He could go on TV, call us all Teabaggers and still make his tee time.

88

Al Franken joshes on Senate floor: 'WELCOME TERRORISTS'...

HAHAHA! That guy, I tell ya he's an effing RIOT!

 

_not

89 "Political reality" Lifted from my comment in the Limbaugh thread: If true-blooded conservatives take the House, a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and the White House in 2012, then what will they be able to do under this concept of "political reality?" If they are guided by principle and start making the necessary but difficult cuts in spending, the people on the receiving end of those cuts are going to squeal like stuck pigs. When the House flips to an overwhelmingly far-left democrat majority after the 2014 election, we will have deadlock. The democrats will--in the interests of social justice--community-organize flash mobs of union types, disaffected youths, hipsters, and other typical democrat scum and bus them to a neighborhood near you. If we hit the ceiling now, then Obama and his layabout minions are afforded the honor of making and owning these prioritization choices. It is Obama and his minions who get to tell their fractured grievance groups which ones will be winners and which ones will be losers. And, when these gimme-gimme-gimme pieces of shit start cracking each other's heads over how the cookie is crumbling, they can do it on their own solid-blue turf. There really is no tomorrow if the left will still be there in its current form.

90 traitorous self-serving mother-stabbers

91 Fuck this plan. In the last thread, mpur was in a corset on Cindy Crawford's lap. Now we're back with another plan that does not cut spending. How is throwing ice water on my taint in mid-fap solve our spending problems?

92 Ace, it's almost like you actually believe this shit. Please, tell us you know this is all a bunch of bullshit. Didn't Republicans get sent to Washington to END THE SPENDING?

93 A second plan sent to the Senate to be tabled by the no-plan crew? Isn't there an old saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?" Just sayin.

the house is in charge of spending bills, and we gave the house a majority.

94 Cut speed? Nonsense, we'll never get there!

95 "Tea-party favorite Allen West (R., Fla.), who supports the plan, said he might be willing to bet his retirement check on it."

He is.

96 It's so funny watching ACE line up to kick the football and then watching Reid and Obama yank it at the last second. Over and over and over again. Good times. What a fucking maroon.

97
How is throwing ice water on my taint in mid-fap solve our spending problems?

You're one sick fuck.

98 Boehnered.  Right in the dorkhole. 

I'm not sure I disagree with the "best we can do" argument as a reality... but I sure as the Nine Hells don't like it. 

99 We are not going to be able to get anything good past this Oval Office anyway, so why not just pass this useless budget that will do nothing to revive the markets, and let the full laden of Doom (TM) descend on The One in 2012, and make 2010 look like a squeaker?

100 undead takes a swing at being funny again and throws his bat in the outfield stands.

I wasn't trying to be funny.  Allen West, Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, and John Bolton have all demonstrated through their support of this plan that they are statist Ruling Class RINOs.  We need to primary them all with constitutional conservatives and remove them from Congress as quickly as possible.

101

The best lipstick I can put on this pig is that you need to stop spending more before you can reverse and spend less, but that's not really a great spin.

 

They are spending more.  The "savings" take into account baseline budgeting, which includes 3-10% increase year over year as a starting point.

Furthermore, the debt service is definitely going to mushroom, as we accrue more debt, and our short term paper turns over at a higher interest rate after the major ratings agencies downgrade our credit rating.

Let me re-iterate from an earlier thread:

If the GOP simply froze spending for FY 2011 at FY 2010 levels, the CBO would score it as a $9.5 TRILLION cut.

So "spending less" means some number north of $9.5T.

I'm so fucking glad I poured my blood out to get Republicans elected in 2010.

102 In knew that in the end... we would be lining up behind a boner

103

You know, since we've already shown we will not shut the government down, we've pretty much given up our leverage.

-------

Yes. Which is something else Gabe needs to explain. Why is he so happy about doing this a second time if the Rs aren't actually willing to shut the govt. down? Again, if you are conceding it isn't an option, then we have no leverage, so why do this shit again?

104 "Here's what makes it attractive:  Obama's gonna have to deal with this issue again before the 2012 elections." Ah, so the American people will now have a second chance to watch the GOP submissively urinate all over the floors of Congress. Fantastic. Victory 2012!

105 As with TARP, the "responsible adults" see that

they need to substitute BAD now for DOOM a little later?

ooooooo' shiny can.

*kick*

106 If we well and truly default, it's not just banks taking the hit, it's China and Europe.  As with TARP, the "responsible adults" see that a shooting war (not agaisnt us, but by proxy) would be the result of actually defaulting.  Or a serious trade war that would shutter American businesses by the score.
 

Posted by: R Oppenheimer

 

Who says that we're going to default?

Who says that we'll be any better off if the credit rating gets shitcanned?

Who here thinks that confronting the creatures on the edge of the debt ceiling map are definitely worse than what the PIIGS are going through right now? They are all hitting the REAL debt ceiling; no one wants what they have. it's not a matter of 'am I allowed to offer these bonds?'

Screw Taiwan. Ask Italy.

107 What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are?

Political reality

Posted by: pep at July 27, 2011 05:06 PM (6TB1Z)

Yup. As long as the Democrats hold the Senate and the White House, there will be no cuts in spending. And they have the mainstream media on their side.

Also, the American people refuse to let anyone touch their benefits. Go to Free Republic, for God's sake, and see that they're all saying, "I paid into Medciare and Social Security my whole life! Cut something else!"

We're still not serious yet. Getting there, but not there yet.

108 You all do realize this is a 6 month deal right? Reid's plan extends the debt ceiling until 2013, Boehner's plan extends the ceiling for 6 months. Barry has to come back to the table in 6 months for another raise. Trying to compare the two plans as if they are the same is nuts.

109 $20 whole billion in "deficit reduction" (which means increased taxes!) In a $1.7 trillion deficit most of which is being given to Democrat and Democrat Party interests? And this is the REPUBLICAN PLAN? What the fuck? This isn't a plan. It's a Republican gang rape of our country.

110 They will pass this piece of crap, the Senate dems will howl with delight cause they didn't think they would do this good, OdipO will sign it and congratulate himself on saving the country.

111 Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 27, 2011 05:17 PM (2tTzd)

Like this?

112 My hope is that this goes into conference and what comes out is a debt limit increase just a little under 2 trillion, putting us right back here next October, with acrimonious negotiations that collapse into a singularity around the first of November.

113 How is throwing ice water on my taint in mid-fap solve our spending problems?

REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS

114 I wonder if there are any squishy dems in the Senate, so we could get bipartisan. I mean, is the democrat party now the party of deficits and blind spending. never mind.

115 Are those savings from last years' budget less spending, or what Obama asked for in Feb?

116 the dems aren't scared of doing this again in 6 months.  they love it, it gives them a chance to bash the tea party and the repubs always fold.  Always.

117 Via Phil Klein: "Issa says he plans to release letter defending Boehner plan today, says he thinks they have votes."


What did Boehner do this morning to get this type of reaction from these lawmakers this morning? Even some of the ones voting against the bill had some  words for him.

118 So does this mean the actual reduction in next year's spending increases has been changed from the paltry $1B to a much more substantial $1.01B?

Well, now we're talkin!

119 People! People! This is finally The Hill To Die On! This is The Great Battle of Our Age - our Republic lives or dies on the outcome of this fight.  Therefore, we are going all-in and committing heretofore unimaginable forces to this fight: one entire cooks and clerks platoon (understrength).  Never before have we fielded such an awesome juggernaut!  Forward to glory! Victory or death!!

120

You all do realize this is a 6 month deal right? Reid's plan extends the debt ceiling until 2013, Boehner's plan extends the ceiling for 6 months. Barry has to come back to the table in 6 months for another raise.

Trying to compare the two plans as if they are the same is nuts.

-----------------

Enlighten me and tell me why doing this again in 6 months is worth it? We got NO cuts. Just slower growth. But the govt. still grows. So what exactly is accomplished by doing this again?

It's one thing to do this again in 6 months if we got something meaningful, but when you get next to nothing, it's just a waste of fucking time.

121
oh I don't think so, Guy

In 2012 the Democrats and Obama have to pretend to be fiscal hawks. They'll be much more amenable to making a deal then, especially if Obama's economic policies continue to fail.

122 I'm not sure I disagree with the "best we can do" argument as a reality... but I sure as the Nine Hells don't like it.

None of us do.  Patience my friend.  Again, as per earlier today, this isn't about the end goal (on which we all agree), it's about the tactics to get us there.

We're still not serious yet. Getting there, but not there yet.

The time constant isn't matched with what we want, but the indicators are all in the right direction.

123 Boehnered. Right in the dorkhole. Dorkhole... isn't that the nickname for the House cloakroom?

124 So, we've spent 7 months on this and the end result is $20 billion and 2 votes.

Of course, that assume the Senate actually passes it as is and it doesn't get watered down in the final negotiations.

125 Until we can get Obama out - this may be the best we can do. I suspect Obozo will veto this thing too. Remember -Obama wants job killing taxes and a blank check + love and adoration from you and me.

126 124 Are those savings from last years' budget less spending, or what Obama asked for in Feb?

CBO used several baselines last night with January as the primary. They should be measuring from the April CR levels.

127 Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011 05:23 PM (OX4OZ)

It's always "next time will be the time!"

128 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 27, 2011 05:20 PM (LH6ir)

that is SO WRONG

129 And btw, I still don't get what the fascination is with Allen West. I know he was an early Tea Party favorite, and the man talks a great game, but so far his actual voting record in Congress has him among the RINOiest of the RINOs. Why people still look to him for leadership is beyond me, unless it's for the same reason people thought Obama would make a good leader...

130

@3: "Pence, Bolton, and Ryan have all lined up behind it."

Hey, we lined up behind Custer, too.  Doesn't mean we thought he had a good plan, we just had to do it. 

131 130 This vote is meaningless, right?  I mean, aren't we told it's already DOA in the Senate?  So, it's purely a vote to put it back on them... in theory.


Yes.

132

$20 billion is a slap in the face of every single American who voted for these idiots.

Ron Paul is more sane than the Republican leadership.

I'm voting for fucking Ron Paul.

See you, GOP. Game over.

Ron Paul!

133
Look, if Obama signs this, the least we'll get out of it is getting Obama to show his ass.

He thought this was going to be a walk in the park. Instead we sparked the debate and raised awareness AND made Obama say some childish shit and look like a fool.

134 What happened to the unspent hundreds of billions of dollars in stimulus funds?

I bet this is simply a stupid question. Afterall, if there are unspent money stashed away, how could there even be a looming financial crisis August 2?  HMMMM?

The time for accounting for all those $ trillions in TARP and Stimulus is long overdue, doncha think?

135 Cut speed? Nonsense, we'll never get there!
Posted by: Deck, USS Titanic


Shoals? Non-sense. Ahead Full.

136

Al Franken proves we are a banana republic.

 

137 THEN we can really start holding some feet to the fire and get real changes made.

Bullwinkle, tuxedo, top hat.

138

>>>You know, since we've already shown we will not shut the government down, we've pretty much given up our leverage.

I guess I don't agree. This process has worn away a lot of Toonces' numbers. It has brought our problems to the attention of a lot of bystanders. That cannot be good for the Donk agenda.

Just beating the crap out of Toonces, alienating him from his base, all of that is leverage.

139 What did Boehner do this morning

Cried in the shower.

140 Has anyone seen The Chicken?

141 The time constant isn't matched with what we want, but the indicators are all in the right direction.

What, exactly are you seeing here?  Boehner has the effin Hammer of God in the debt limit and he's punting.  What indicators are moving our way?  Spending, which is already bankrupting us, growing at an infinitesimally smaller rate?  Is that the big reveal?

woot.

142 138 Posted by: Rich at July 27, 2011
It's always "next time will be the time!"

No, that's not what was said.  In fact, IIRC most of us hadn't even considered the debt limit as a useful political tool until a month ago.  It was always about '12.

143

None of us do.  Patience my friend.  Again, as per earlier today, this isn't about the end goal (on which we all agree), it's about the tactics to get us there.

----------

And come 2013 we'll be told we don't have a super majority in the Senate. So we need to wait till 2014. And after that, well we can't do anything TOO serious, because whoever the President is will be starting his re-eleciton campaign. And then by 2016, the country will be down the toilet and none of it will matter.

Yes, a bunch of straw-men, but the point is we don't have the time to continue to point to that hill way over there and say that's the one we die on, only to then finally get there, and pick a different hill.

144 147 Al Franken proves we are a banana republic. Posted by: Lemon Kitten at July 27, 2011 05:26 PM (0fzsA) Pretty much. I mean, he couldn't happen in an adult society.

145 The "savings" take into account baseline budgeting, which includes 3-10% increase year over year as a starting point. Thank you, Boehnhead. 3-10% was killing us. 2.95-9.95% per year is fantastic!

146 Wow.  20 billlion.  My thimble runneth over.

147 Does anyone else think we should be able to read the plan before we vote on it?

148

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 27, 2011 05:18 PM (vU8C3)

 

You have such a solid stance in reality, War.........NOT!!

149 Al Franken proves we are a banana republic. Posted by: Lemon Kitten at July 27, 2011 05:26 PM (0fzsA) Al Franken proves the 52% have done more damage to America than anyone could ever of imagined

150
daddy why is the orange man crying?

151

No, that's not what was said.  In fact, IIRC most of us hadn't even considered the debt limit as a useful political tool until a month ago.  It was always about '12

----

Um, no, I specifically remember being told during the budger resolution in the spring that we needed to just get it over with so we could move on to the bigger fights, one of them being this debt ceiling fight.

152

If Alan West is a RINO, then everyone is.  He's lining up behind this plan because he thinks our suicide bomber of an Indonesian is going to take the whole country down if he doesn't get his way.  He doesn't care.  It's not his country.

I hate the "Plan" as I did the several before it (even CC&B left much to be desired, especially for a symbolic gesture).  It's not that I agree with teh establishmentarians, but I see how they're thinking.

Hussein and Reid know either know or believe that teh public will blame the Republicans, so they have nothing to lose by letting it all go down in a flaming mess.

In any case, Taiwan in exchange for $9 trillion or so isn't a terrible deal, after all.
 

153 "And Obama is good at not making choices. And then the grumbling, mumbling money grubbers will all be united in one thing (in that none are getting any money)." He'll fold for whoever gets an audience with him, and all the other children will stew over why daddy doesn't love them as much. They're the party of Cain.

154 Let's see... we estimate the "budget" for the Feds during 2012 at $3.729 trillion. 8760 hours in a year. So, we spend about $425 million per hour. Or, $10.2 billion per day. *yawn*

155

@48: "You know what? This probably is the best we can do with only 1/2 of one third of the federal government in our control. It's going to be all about the primaries next year. THEN we can really start holding some feet to the fire and get real changes made. Otherwise it is just one pissing match after another."

Yeah, because that plan worked so well when the GOP had the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives.

156 I guess this is it -- the best that we can get this go round. I do agree that having Dear Reader and the Dem Senate having to deal with the issue yet again before the '12 elections has appeal.
 
Just think, on the next round we will have a lowered credit rating. That ought to put some extra bite into the mix.

157 Andrew McCarthy says this about CBO scoring:

"The CBO always assumes the continued viability of federal law, regardless of federal policy. So, even though no one in Washington thinks the Bush tax cuts will actually be allowed to lapse (certainly not for all taxpayers, and probably not for “the rich”), CBO credits the government with an additional $3 trillion in tax revenue that will never materialize because the law says so."

158

What happened to the unspent hundreds of billions of dollars in stimulus funds?


Did you know?  All the stimulus spending is included in the new budget.

The stimulus spending became a part of the baseline going forward.

It gets spent every year, plus 3-10%

159 "The best lipstick I can put on this pig is that you need to stop spending more before you can reverse and spend less, but that's not really a great spin."

Yeah, but what are the amounts of "more" and "less?"

These assclowns are saying, "Instead of spending $1.7t we don't have, we'll only spend $1.68t we don't have. And, by the way, everything else we say will happen will revolve around liberals not winning a single election for the next decade."

Jesus fucking Christ. What a bunch of horse shit.

160 This plan's first phase is not that great.. but doesn't Congress and Obama have to come up with more cuts next year?  And there's that commission, right?

I bet Obama would be stupid enough not to sign it...

Any idea if it would get through the Senate?

161

I guess I don't agree. This process has worn away a lot of Toonces' numbers. It has brought our problems to the attention of a lot of bystanders. That cannot be good for the Donk agenda.

Just beating the crap out of Toonces, alienating him from his base, all of that is leverage.

-------

Yea, about those polls, anyone notice the ones that say the American people trust Obama with this debt ceiling issue more than the Rs. Really, really good stuff.

162
I am possessed by Ed Morrissey.

/scratches h-e-l-p  m-e from inside my stomach

163 Primary Allen West!  He's a fucking RINO!!!!

164 Paul Ryan on the Sean Hannity radio show gave the only rational defense of the John Boehner plan I have heard.  I'm still not buying, though.

165 So, out of a budget of $3,729 billion we can cut $20 billion.

I am underwhelmed. Forget everything after the oncoming year. It will never happen.

No mention is made of how much the ceiling is raised.

166 Zombie Companies C, E, F, I, and L

*ahem*

Troop not company.

167 >>Enlighten me and tell me why doing this again in 6 months is worth it? We got NO cuts. Just slower growth. But the govt. still grows. So what exactly is accomplished by doing this again? Getting to do this again IS the win. Do you really think Barry wants to have this conversation for the next 6 months while he would rather be running for re-election? He has been dropping like a rock ever since this fight started in earnest. Why do you think he is fighting a short term extension so hard? During the Reagan years, the debt ceiling used to be raised every 6 months like clock work with no debate. Those days are over. You want the debt cut. I want the debt cut. The simple fact is the majority of decision makers in DC right now do NOT want the debt cut. Turning this into a series of short term battles where we are now talking about how much to cut in exchange for an raise instead of an automatic raise in the ceiling is a sea change in how things have worked in DC in the last 50 years. Why do you think so many Tea Party freshman are now coming around? We might not get everything we want in the first bite at the apple but if we can change the fight to our terms and make that fight take place constantly it is a huge win.

168 Try New SOCKBEGONE!

169 All this talk about money is giving me a migraine

170 Warden: "Ron Paul is more sane than the Republican leadership.

I'm voting for fucking Ron Paul..."

The GOP is about to create its Ross Perot and knock itself out of the Presidential race. The Party of Stupid indeed.

171 Oh, and that leaves $900 billion dollars to print borrow this year.

172 They'll be much more amenable to making a deal then

No way.  Gerrymandering prevents that.  Only a few dem senators from purple states will want to pretend to be fiscal hawks.  The dems will do everything to protect the funds for their constituency and jobs for themselves.

173 "Or, Obama can just tell everyone "sorry, nothing for you, the GOP took it away". What? Obama will seek to blame the GOP for the fallout from his own stupidity and intransigence? This outcome had never occurred to any of us before! You're right. We should wait to fix this urgent problem until there's no possibility of political reprecussions. We don't dare risk our hard-fought precious power by making the opposition unhappy with us.

174 1--What are we not seeing that Allen West and Paul Ryan are? Careers in DC. Theirs, not ours.

175

For the, oh shit, I forgot, number of times, you can forget this fantasy (and that is what it is) of a primary challenge to John Boehner.

Au contraire, Monsiuer Mutt. The only reason I mentioned that was that a lot of folks thought that we didn't have a candidate against The Ididot Alan Grayson down here, and we found one and beat him. The same goes for Scott Brown, although that's not a really good example. The TP has a lot of energy right now, and I think this battle will only piss the country off even more, which is a great motivator for those who don't follow politics to do so.

But look at Rubio, West (yeah, I'm picking Florida boys) and the others that came out of nowhere to win in the last midterms. We do know how to pick 'em and send money directly to them, bypassing the RNC.

176
When did Allen West change his name?

Tea Party Favorite Allen West.

177 Paul Ryan on the Sean Hannity radio show gave the only rational defense of the John Boehner plan I have heard.  I'm still not buying, though.

It relies on the presumption of one of two things.
We can actually get real cuts real soon.
Or
The economy can limp along until 2013.

Neither one of which is likely to be true.
So they are effectively voting to end the Republic as we know it.
Well it had a good run.

178 yeah, I think this is a serious misunderstimation of the reality by the god-king. This makes him look bad. In the Dems' minds, budget battles are supposed to be instant losers for the GOP. And yes, there's that article about HUNDREDS of billions of unspent funds that agencies don't even know what to do with. CUT THAT SHIT. Why is Boehner so lame with his proposals, the GOP starting point? Be bold.

179

>> Has anyone seen The Chicken?

shhhhhh.

180 No, that's not what was said.  In fact, IIRC most of us hadn't even considered the debt limit as a useful political tool until a month ago.  It was always about '12.

Posted by: pep

 

You keep saying that as though it meant something. Do you think we have a shot at a filibuster proof majority in the Senate? Obama couldn't get obamacare through in under a year, and he had one. What idiot here thinks that we'll get something meaningful in 2013 with a simple majority and a Republican president. Afeter all, we've been hearing that jacking up the debt ceiling is the only thing we will definitely honor. That is inviolate.

181 162 Um, no, I specifically remember being told during the budger resolution in the spring that we needed to just get it over with so we could move on to the bigger fights, one of them being this debt ceiling fight.

They're not done passing the budget appropriations bills yet. We get to watch them fight all over again come mid-August through the end of September.

182 What, exactly are you seeing here?  Boehner has the effin Hammer of God in the debt limit and he's punting.  What indicators are moving our way?  Spending, which is already bankrupting us, growing at an infinitesimally smaller rate?  Is that the big reveal?

No, the Hammer of God is controlling all three branches, and knowing that the voters are truly sick and tired of the old ways.  That's what we could have if we're smart. The indicators are in every recent poll, plus the fact that we've gone from "how much additional spending?" to "how can we defend what we have?"  Think Guadalcanal or Stalingrad.

@166  Nobody I know is defending the earlier Congress.  Nobody.  But the times were different.

183 163  If Alan West is a RINO, then everyone is.

Posted by: R Oppenheimer at July 27, 2011 05:28 PM (UaxA0)

Honestly, I'm not one to throw around the RINO term, but I expected my new NY Congresscritter to be a total RINO. While she hasn't gotten much attention, her voting record thus far has been rather impressive.

But when it comes to pissing away the taxpayers' money, the Tea Party favorite Alan West seems to side with the statists pretty much everytime...

184 Now I'm feverishly waiting for the next phone call from the RNC so I can use sifty's suggest offer, though after my bitching to them last night, I may not get one.

185 No, that's not what was said.  In fact, IIRC most of us hadn't even considered the debt limit as a useful political tool until a month ago.  It was always about '12.

Posted by: pep at July 27, 2011 05:27 PM (6TB1Z)

 

Heh.  It has been an eye-opener for me to see how easily many in the moron horde can be manipulated by Dick, the dems, and the MFM.  

186 I mean, didn't I just see that Ron Paul has matched Obie's polling numbers? At this rate, I may be insane enough to become a Paulite cause you know he'd cut everything.

187 And I am amused by the left playing this off as a Bush thing. So? Is this another Bush policy that Obama is adopting? I think we can all agree that this one has to go.

188 No, the Hammer of God is controlling all three branches

When will this occur?  The Republicans haven't had a filibuster proof Senate since Hawaii entered the union.

189 Boner is an incompetent SOB.  He couldn't even get it up to $1.2 trillion.

190 What idiot here thinks that we'll get something meaningful in 2013 with a simple majority and a Republican president.

I do.  Things change.  The mood of the country changes, and it has.  Do you really think that the Dems in Washington won't notice if some of their brethren get tossed?  We keep complaining that politicians are only concerned with reelection.  It doesn't take a weatherman....

191

Heh.  It has been an eye-opener for me to see how easily many in the moron horde can be manipulated by Dick, the dems, and the MFM.  

-------

I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about but I've been thinking about this debt ceiling fight since the November elections. I remember it being talked about, by the freaking Republicans, as a place they can make changes. I remember being told in April that we needed to get beyond the budget resolution so we could get to the real fights, one of which was this. I'm sorry you just now heard about the debt ceiling, but some of us have known this was coming for a while and were prepared to fight.

192 *shhhhht*

USA1 You are cleared for hyperinflation.
Engaging interest expanders.
Virtual printing press online.
Monetize debt engine active.
Standby....
Hyperinflation in ...

3..

2..

193

@98: "Didn't Republicans get sent to Washington to END THE SPENDING?"

Actually, if you read the fine print, it was to Spend to the Ending of the Nation.  But to save one shiny dime, so they can honestly claim to have spent less than the Dems.

194 >>You keep saying that as though it meant something. Do you think we have a shot at a filibuster proof majority in the Senate? Obama couldn't get obamacare through in under a year, and he had one. And yet the majority of people here seem to think we should have been able to get billions if not trillions in cuts when we control only the House. How exactly was that supposed to work?

195 Ok,we know we won't like a lot about this plan. The big question of the day. If the senate either won't take a vote on it or votes it down, then what are some ideas on how to take it from there?

196 How about we do a piecemeal budget plan by Department. We first send a budget plan for Defense. Reid either tables it or votes it. If passed, the Obama either signs it or vetos it. If signed, then we send a budget plan for the next Departement. I know this is slow, but it has the advantage of real meaningful debate and real enforcement. How long does Reid and Sparky want to sit and await the next installment of the plan. This method also drains the drama out of the process. How many journalist majors from Columbia want to report on installments to a plan? Its summer and the gay bars are hopping.

197 If Alan West is a RINO, then everyone is.  He's lining up behind this plan because he thinks our suicide bomber of an Indonesian is going to take the whole country down if he doesn't get his way.  He doesn't care.  It's not his country.

Yep.  Do you want to be the on to tell Alan West that he blinked in the game of chicken? That he is a coward?  I don't think so.

198 How exactly was that supposed to work?

They don't call us morons for nuthin'

199 No, we give him an omnibus budget and every time Reid denies it, we give him a smaller one.

200

900 billion from 1.2 trillion

6 mths verses what was original time frame for 1.2

201 You have such a solid stance in reality, War.........NOT!!
Posted by: Soona at July 27, 2011 05:27 PM (0jg/X)

I'm sorry you feel that way, because this is no laughing matter.  It's RINOs like Allen West and Paul Ryan who got us to this point and we will not be able to turn this ship away from the iceberg until we primary them with real conservatives.

In the case of Mike Pence, who's leaving Congress to make a try at being the RINO governor of Indiana, we may need to look into the possibility of a recall.  I don't want to have to wait 18 months to get a conservative into that seat.

I don't know what John Bolton's plans are after he leaves Congress but we should waste no time in finding a primary challenger for him.  There is no reason in the world a squish like him ought to be sitting in such an entrenched conservative House seat.  There are some people here who actually want this RINO on a presidential ticket or in a Cabinet position, which is totally unacceptable.

Of course, the number-one priority is primarying the Speaker of the House and replacing him with a solid conservative.  I take this very seriously and hope you won't disagree with me on the necessity of getting rid of a RINO like Boehner.

Serious times, gentlemen.

202 No, the Hammer of God is controlling all three branches

When will this occur?  The Republicans haven't had a filibuster proof Senate since Hawaii entered the union.

Posted by: toby928™

Ah, so you have heard of me. Tell that dumbass Pep about me.

203 And yet the majority of people here seem to think we should have been able to get billions if not trillions in cuts when we control only the House. How exactly was that supposed to work?

Don't raise the debt ceiling at all, or raise it only the amount that will get the cuts we want.  Want to cut 700B, raise it by 1T only and say that's it.

204 I am possessed by Ed Morrissey. This isn't the first time Ed Morrissey's been inside you.

205 Heh.  It has been an eye-opener for me to see how easily many in the moron horde can be manipulated by Dick, the dems, and the MFM. 

If this was all we were going to get, we should have just given them 1 year of debt and moved on and had this little talk next year. And not wasted everybody's time.

206

@111: "Ah, so the American people will now have a second chance to watch the GOP submissively urinate all over the floors of Congress. Fantastic. Victory 2012!"

And now we have our campaign slogan!  Congratulations - we will give you the first bumper sticker to come off the press!

207 I don't know what John Bolton's plans are after he leaves Congress but we should waste no time in finding a primary challenger for him.  There is no reason in the world a squish like him ought to be sitting in such an entrenched conservative House seat.  There are some people here who actually want this RINO on a presidential ticket or in a Cabinet position, which is totally unacceptable.

wtf? 

208 ow.

209 We are boned.  I'm going to go home and start my drinking.

210 then what are some ideas on how to take it from there?

F* em.
Adjourn the House and go home for a couple of weeks.
Obama calls the house into session.
Bring it to session and adjourn it again.
Let them hump this ruck for a while.

211

The best lipstick I can put on this pig is that you need to stop spending more before you can reverse and spend less, but that's not really a great spin.

Actually, that's pretty good. The ship of state, like all ships, need room and time to turn around.

212 An observation: Why doesn't everyone own a Mercedes SLR? Because it costs nearly half a million dollars. If the price tag were $15,000 they would be more common than Camrys. May we agree? Does this not apply to Leica cameras and chocolate diamonds and split-level second homes at ski resorts? There is one thing that will stop the orgy of government spending and borrowing, and one thing only: the price of borrowing money. Politics won't stop it, voters won't stop it, bloggers won't stop it. This is neither an argument for nor against anything, only an observation of fact.

213

@114: "As long as the Democrats hold the Senate and the White House, there will be no cuts in spending."

God how we love you foolish optimists - we couldn't get elected without you. You guys always seem to forget that we held the White House, House, and Senate, and we didn't cut spending.

214 >>You keep saying that as though it meant something. Do you think we have a shot at a filibuster proof majority in the Senate? Obama couldn't get obamacare through in under a year, and he had one.

And yet the majority of people here seem to think we should have been able to get billions if not trillions in cuts when we control only the House. How exactly was that supposed to work?

Posted by: JackStraw

Option #3. Do nothing. We either act as Americans now, or we wind up holding crap like Italy is tomorrow.

Everyone arguing in favor of this thing is trying to allude to wonderful gains next year and the prospect of greater things to come. They are also ignoring the credit rating issue, which is entirely seperate from the official debt ceiling issue. So sayeth S&P and Moodys. "we fear the unknown potential fallout of a default'. Okay. Why isn't anyone fearing the downgrade? We can place a dollar figure on that. That isn't unknown.

215 This isn't the first time Ed Morrissey's been inside you. I didn't need to read that after eating some cheese.

216 Scott Garrett on the Boehner plan

217 @213

Good one.  You almost had me.

218

@123: "I mean, is the democrat party now the party of deficits and blind spending. "

Dude, we are soooo gonna fight to get that mantle back! No one, but no one, steals our thunder!

219

Don't raise the debt ceiling at all, or raise it only the amount that will get the cuts we want.  Want to cut 700B, raise it by 1T only and say that's it.

ding ding ding

winner winner chicken dinner

all this compromise shit shows you what the GOP thinks about cutting spending.

That is, they don't think about it.

220 To all who criticize the Boehner plan, look at it this way:

A) We can't get everything we want now.  The Democratic Senate and President preclude that.  End of story.  But if we play our cards right, we can win the presidency and the senate for next time around.  I know we're skeptical about how it's always going to happen "the next time" indefinitely, but seriously, do you think we have a better chance for getting what we want by insisting on it now, when we control only the House and risk playing into Obama's stereotype of us as "stubborn extremists"?

B) Yeah, the Boehner plan only revisits the issue in a short time, and yeah, even then we won't get what we want substantively.  But we will force Obama to keep coming back publicly to an issue he obvious knows nothing about and it shows.  That will help us in November.

C) Obama is now banking on PR to blame the Republicans and the "tea partiers" for stubbornness.  We know, however, that the media is actually starting to get a bit antsy about that: See the questions to Jay Carney from Chuck Todd and Jake Tapper about having the President show his plan; also see the cratering support with the president's base.  The only way he gets out of this is by blaming someone else.  That's what he's always done, and that's what he always will do.

D) Right now, though, the Republicans have a window of PR opportunity where the President and the Dems have been sidelined.  If the Boehner plan gets torpedoed in the House, then the President and the Dems not only can say, "see, we told you so about those extremists who can't even agree with their own party".  And you know the media will run with that.  And it will give the President and the Dems an opportunity to get back in the game and look like they're doing something.  But if the BOehner plan passes and the Dems or the Pres accept it or kill it, then it looks even worse for them, since they've either folded or shown that they can't compromise either.

221 212 900 billion from 1.2 trillion

6 mths verses what was original time frame for 1.2

Boehner is doing this in two steps. This amount should last Obama through April and he'd only get the second amount if he agreed to certain conditions. I'd like to see the rewrite to see how much they changed. Knock-out the additional money for Pell Grants and SS money by way of amendment.

222 One at a time boys, one at a time.

- The Chicken

223 And yet the majority of people here seem to think we should have been able to get billions if not trillions in cuts when we control only the House. How exactly was that supposed to work?

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 05:37 PM (TMB3S)

That's not what this is about. This is about the inability of the Republican leadership to actually negotiate aggressively. They are giving the Dems pretty much everything except tax hikes, and giving the Republican base imaginary cuts.

That's bullshit.

224 get the articles of impeachment ready ... i see the 14th amendment nuclear option in the presidents future.

225 "What happened to the unspent hundreds of billions of dollars in stimulus funds?" Oh, that money. It's completely impossible to use that money, as it's currently in the pocket of our other suit.

226 Everyone arguing in favor of this thing is trying to allude to wonderful gains next year and the prospect of greater things to come. They are also ignoring the credit rating issue, which is entirely seperate from the official debt ceiling issue. So sayeth S&P and Moodys. "we fear the unknown potential fallout of a default'. Okay. Why isn't anyone fearing the downgrade?

We do fear it.  That's exactly why we want to do the smart thing here.  We aren't ignoring anything.

227

As far as the budget and budget cuts are concerned, all of us have to remember that the people who set this country's financial standards are the high-density population cities like NYC, LA, and Chicago.  All worshippers of the miracle of the government stash.

228 Has this new plan even been to the CBO yet?  I want to see the numbers. 

That year-by-year "total effect on the deficit" thing on the last plan ( -1 -16 -57 -73 -85 -96 -109 -123 -138 -153) really showed the futility of the Republicans stratagem.

I expect to see something equally useless on this new one.

229 _{we held the White House, House, and Senate, and we didn't cut spending.}

And had a majority on the SCOTUS in case anyone got lippy.

230 232

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 27, 2011 05:45 PM (Y5I9o)

The counterpoint to all your points is pretty much going to be "Shut up, RINO!"

Good Lord, this is starting to remind me of the Christine O'Donnell threads.

231 >>Don't raise the debt ceiling at all, or raise it only the amount that will get the cuts we want. Want to cut 700B, raise it by 1T only and say that's it. Ok, let's play that out. Reid wouldn't bring it to a vote in the Senate, assuming Boehner could get it past the House which I doubt, and Obama and the Dems would demagogue it to death. The would get big help from their msm. Republicans would be forced to deal from a weakened position after the market shat all over us and the bond market closed up like a starfishes asshole. Are we in a better position to move forward and take out Obama and take back Congress or a worse one? Thats kind of important because the only way we are going to get the real substantive cuts we want which include entitlement reform is to take all of DC. This year, mandatory spending (entitlements) and the military account for almost $3.2 trillion out of the budget of $3.8 trillion. There is no possible way to get the kind of serious you mention and we want without entitlement reform. There is no way to get entitlement reform without taking Congress and the Presidency. We can pretend otherwise but the actions of Obama and the Dems over the last month prove otherwise.

232

@126: "What did Boehner do this morning to get this type of reaction from these lawmakers this morning?"

I jusht convinshed myshelf that shemen tashtesh like Talishker, and then I shucked cocksh like My Lord Obama wash gonna outlaw it tomorrow.

*wobble*

233 We do fear it.  That's exactly why we want to do the smart thing here.  We aren't ignoring anything.

Posted by: pep at July 27, 2011 05:46 PM (6TB1Z)

Yes, give into your fear. Do the "smart thing".

234

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 27, 2011 05:39 PM (vU8C3)

Your schtick is old and tiresome. Sure as hell not funny.

235

We are boned.  I'm going to go home and start my drinking.

Since I can afford beer now, you have some catching up to do.

All seriousness aside, I think we all kind of knew that we couldn't do much with our little 1/2 of 1/3 of the government. What we have done is established a beach head and drawn a clear line between real, live, conservatives in the House and pissants like Boehner and teh Pubbie elites.

I'm not sure who's more afraid of us, the Dims or them. But we have managed to establish a new tone that I've never seen nor heard in Washington, namely that there's somebody up there who knows what real cuts to the budget are. And they will grow as the rest of the country wakes up, and they are waking up.

236 They are giving the Dems pretty much everything except tax hikes

And McArthur gave the Japanese pretty much everything but complete destruction of their homeland.

237 This is devil's advocate to my previous post:

1) Downgrading is already going to happen no matter what, unless we get a real plan with real serious cuts.  Boehner's doesn't do that, so even if is passes, we will still get downgraded.

2) Obama will blame us no matter what.  He already telegraphed that in his speech by saying, "it may already be too late", i.e., even if we pass the Boehner plan, the downgrading will happen, so we'll get blamed for an ineffective plan.  Since that's the case, why not hold out?

238

Hey, anyone remember when we got Obamacare rammed up our asses after Mitch McConnell decided it was more important for him to get home for Christmas rather than fight for the future of his country?

Yeah, that was terrific.

RON PAUL!

239 Your GOP Elites: "You guys always seem to forget that we held the White House, House, and Senate, and we didn't cut spending."

Sad but true. They're Statists... the lot of them. Only the time horizons for conversion vary.  Eventually and inevitably, the Borg wins. We will collapse and we're just deciding on the rate of implosion. American voters have insisted upon this.

240 Ok, let's play that out. Reid wouldn't bring it to a vote in the Senate, assuming Boehner could get it past the House which I doubt, and Obama and the Dems would demagogue it to death. The would get big help from their msm.

Republicans would be forced to deal from a weakened position after the market shat all over us and the bond market closed up like a starfishes asshole.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 05:47 PM (TMB3S)

This kind of reasoning is why the Beltway crowd inspires loathing from the base.

We need to give the Dems what they want, or they will be mad at us.

Nice.

241 I expect to see something equally useless on this new one. Useless? You mean like arguing for a month about an unenforceable deal that will save perhaps eight hours worth of spending instead of four? Me, I salivate at the prospect. Who wouldn't? You aren't one of those neanderthal teagaggers, are you?

242

@151: "Has anyone seen The Chicken?"

You guys!

*fires shotgun*

You guys!

*fires shotgun*

Did you see the size of that chicken?

243 O.T.: Gov. Moonbeam has just appointed the leftyest of the leftys to the California Supreme Court -- Goodwin Liu. Spit!

244 Ok, ok, ok look, I'll give you 3 wishes.

245 And McArthur gave the Japanese pretty much everything but complete destruction of their homeland.

Good Lord.  Perhaps you are confusing which side is agreeing to unconditional surrender is this war.  We are getting nothing with this deal, especially since the Dems will reject it since they now know we are proven folders.

246 More from Lowry:

UPDATE: Clarifying: WeÂ’re told the cut is $22 billion in fiscal year 2012 from the adjusted CBO baseline, and $42 billion in fiscal year 2013. Most of the change has to do with a technical adjustment one of our budget experts will have to explain. The new version preserves the 1:1 match in the first tranche of the debt increase, which leadership considers a very important benchmark for members. Leadership sounds increasingly optimistic about passage and even outsiders opposed to the Boehner plan have been predicting privately today that it will pass.

247 milk toastie

248 Goodwin Liu. Our boning continues on schedule.

249

"The best we can do."

 

Does this smell of a leadership that lacks brains, principles, and spines?

 

It is unacceptable.  Using this plan as a guide it would take more than 140 years to eliminate the debt.

 

They are selling the birthright of generations.  Is this considered moral, justifiable, sane?

250 Ok, ok, ok look, I'll give you 3 wishes.

First wish, I want a drumstick.

251
Easy. Easy. ObamaCare and The Stimulus are still in there.

The Chicken

252 WeÂ’re told the cut is $22 billion in fiscal year 2012 from the adjusted CBO baseline, and $42 billion in fiscal year 2013. Victory is ours, comrades! We will prevent two days of spending next year, and four in the glorious year of 2013! Let the proletariat hail the triumph of the Ten-Year Plan!

253 We can't get everything we want now.  The Democratic Senate and President preclude that.  End of story.  But if we play our cards right, we can win the presidency and the senate for next time around.

We as a nation are not likely to make it to 2013 there mister verbose hotshot. When the economy collapses then what? THEN R's win an election and do...... what?

254

@163: "In any case, Taiwan in exchange for $9 trillion or so isn't a terrible deal, after all."

Oh sure, NOW you tell me! A few million Jews and Southeast Asia for no Soviet Union and no Communist China would have been the deal of the century. 

255 I don't know what John Bolton's plans are after he leaves Congress but we should waste no time in finding a primary challenger for him.  There is no reason in the world a squish like him ought to be sitting in such an entrenched conservative House seat.  There are some people here who actually want this RINO on a presidential ticket or in a Cabinet position, which is totally unacceptable.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States

John who again?

You may want to climb down out of the Rage tree for a few hours.

256 After the Republicans finish embarrassing themselves, Barry will end up with his clean increase and nothing but CRs from here on out, mark my words.

257 Your schtick is old and tiresome. Sure as hell not funny.
Posted by: not amused at July 27, 2011 05:49 PM (9h8nr)

I don't know who you are or why you think I'm trying to be funny, but you can either get behind the West/Ryan/Pence/Boehner/Bolton primary fights or join the ranks of RINO enablers.  It's really that simple.

258 Let the proletariat hail the triumph of the Ten-Year Plan!

Posted by: The Ministry of Truth at July 27, 2011 05:54 PM (AZGON)

Ten year plans are twice as effective as five year plans, you know.

259 >>This kind of reasoning is why the Beltway crowd inspires loathing from the base. >>We need to give the Dems what they want, or they will be mad at us. >>Nice. >KG at July 27, 2011 05:50 PM (LD21B) Ok hard core negotiator. Why don't you demonstrate the negotiating technique you would use to force Reid, Obama and the rest of the liberal majority to give in to your position.

260 _{Gov. Moonbeam has just appointed the leftyest of the leftys to the California Supreme Court -- Goodwin Liu. Spit!}

I hope California is on fire when it slides into the ocean.

261

The new version preserves the 1:1 match in the first tranche of the debt increase, which leadership considers a very important benchmark for members. Leadership sounds increasingly optimistic about passage and even outsiders opposed to the Boehner plan have been predicting privately today that it will pass.

So... that means were raising the debt ceiling by $22B?  Right?

 

262 The budget needs to be cut trillions of dollars over the next decade?  Repeal Obamacare.  There!  That'll take care of much of it.

263 @252: That's simplistic.  The point is about PR and the independents up for grabs in the next election.  It is not about "giving the Dems what they want".

Fact: The Senate and the Prez will never pass anything we want.  Period.

Fact: The only way we can get anything we want right now is by PR maneuvering and capitalizing on Obama's mistakes.

Fact: We have a window of opportunity here since the Prez looks like a whiny bitch who's been cut out of the argument, and the Dems are following us by conceding no tax hikes in the Reid plan. 

Contention: If we hold out for too much now, we allow the Prez and the Dems to regain their footing, re-enter the debate on the grounds that the "tea party extremists" waited too long/sunk a compromise, and that will give them greater leverage both to blame us and to get what they want, and the media will comply.

264 268 After the Republicans finish embarrassing themselves, Barry will end up with his clean increase and nothing but CRs from here on out, mark my words.

Posted by: toby928™ at July 27, 2011 05:55 PM (GTbGH)

Ding, ding, ding! If anybody thinks an actual budget will be passed by Congress for the next two years, then I've got a plan to cut the 2011 CR by $100B I want to sell you!

265 Are we in a better position to move forward and take out Obama and take back Congress or a worse one?

Better, because a majority of the country agrees with us.  This is what the congress repubs don't understand.  People want the spending to stop.

266 then what are some ideas on how to take it from there? up the ass, I guess.

267 Good Lord.  Perhaps you are confusing which side is agreeing to unconditional surrender is this war.  We are getting nothing with this deal, especially since the Dems will reject it since they now know we are proven folders.

Yeah, that's it.  I'm confused.  We are getting nothing with this deal?  Really?

268

@194: "Nobody I know is defending the earlier Congress.  Nobody.  But the times were different."

No, the times weren't diffferent.  Anyone who could do the math could see what was coming.  The only thing that was different was that it wasn't as obvious to the passengers that the forward compartments were flooded and getting to the lifeboats might be a good idea.

269 Posted by: The War Between the Undead States


Being a shit-stirrer means never being wrong, or sorry, or wrong, or saying sorry, or being wrong.

The frustration and chaos is the reward.

270 Yeah, that's it.  I'm confused.  We are getting nothing with this deal?  Really?

Posted by: pep at July 27, 2011 05:59 PM (6TB1Z)

You're right, we are getting a another trillion dollars in new deficit spending. There is that.

271 If one is going forward at a high rate of speed and wishes to go backwards, they must do the following:

1. take the foot off the gas to begin to slow down
2. apply pressure to the brake until stopped
3. put the car in reverse
4. step on the gas
5. enjoy success

we want step 5. with one house, we can achieve part of step 1.

272 272 Still DOA in the Senate, right?

Yes. Reid expects is rewrite to be favored above Boehner's. Now an option they've had since Boehner and Reid both presented their bills is to combine plans, in which the Rs would agree to significantly slash defense and whatever else Reid has in there. We we get even fewer cuts but have the advantage of no tax increases. No, thanks.

273 From what I hear Papa Editor, it is still dead in the Senate. I don't think anyone around here has any ideas to add should it remain that way. I see one of two choices. 1.Continue to negotiate among ourselves until we beg them to take over our 401k's as a down payment on them passing it. 2.Toss the hands up and say we are done, what does the other side offer. Just so you know, IMHO, number 2 will be an unrestricted run at raised taxes, raised debt and whatever else they want, after all, the Republicans will get the blame anyhow, right?

274 Most of the change has to do with a technical adjustment one of our budget experts will have to explain.

If it requires a "budget expert" to explain, it's not a cut.

275 Hey fellas, how about those unemployment numbers?  Is this the conga line to the unemployment office? Who wants to shake my maracas?

276

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at July 27, 2011 06:01 PM (BvTwT)

Except this isn't even starting to take our foot off the gas.  This is letting it up off the floor by half a millimeter.

277 Really?

Yes, really.  Nothing.  We get nothing.  Oh, no new taxes.  Was there the slightest chance in hell that the Democrats were going to get tax rate increases through the House?  No.

We do get a 22B reduction in the increase of Federal spending, maybe, since I remember the 31B reduction of the increase from the CR becoming a few million by the end.  Same with next years reduction in the increase.  We will be spending more next year than this year, and more the next year and so on.

Nothing.

278 Ok hard core negotiator. Why don't you demonstrate the negotiating technique you would use to force Reid, Obama and the rest of the liberal majority to give in to your position.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 05:56 PM (TMB3S)

Huh, so you haven't been reading the comments then, because a bunch of commenters have given ideas on such techniques. I ain't do your work for you.

279 Yeah, that's it.  I'm confused.  We are getting nothing with this deal?  Really?

There are only two questions that ever mattered here.
Is the federal government is spending less in 2012 than in 2011 in total?
Is its deficit (which they pretend we're going to pay for) less in 2012 than in 2011?
If either is answered yes, Boenher is a failure and every GOP asswipe that supports his plan is unworthy of further support.

280 "Except this isn't even starting to take our foot off the gas. This is letting it up off the floor by half a millimeter." Try again: This is pushing it down further only three inches instead of four.

281 Downgrading is already going to happen no matter what, unless we get a real plan with real serious cuts.  Boehner's doesn't do that, so even if is passes, we will still get downgraded.

*riiggggghhhhhtttt*! That was the point.

If we get downgraded. The *only* way we can afford our budget is to monetize the deficit on an ongoing basis, because we sure couldn't afford to pay the yields once we hit AA+.

But whether we go with huge yields on treasuries, or, monetized overspending the resulting inflation will come. And for an otherwise strong economy it would send it into stagflation. For a still in the ICU economy it will utterly destroy it.

From their it is only a small hop to the collapse of entitlements,  massive civil unrest, loss of civil authority, a no kidding shooting class war.

We've lost.

Everything.

We are now in the terminal stage of this illness. We'll be OK for a little while, but we will get worse and worse to the point that in a years time we will think of now as good times.

All the industrial powers are both heavily vested in us and have serious problems them selves.

And we just locked in the self destruct sequence. But you go ahead and keep politicking.

282 We're not getting half a loaf, we're getting the bill for someone else's bread.

283 We are getting nothing with this deal, especially since the Dems will reject it since they now know we are proven folders.

Okay, so what you're saying is that if we hadn't taken the House, and it was still in thrall to Nancy Pelosi, the outcome would have been the same?  Now who's confused?

284 Just so you know, IMHO, number 2 will be an unrestricted run at raised taxes, raised debt and whatever else they want, after all, the Republicans will get the blame anyhow, right?

Posted by: Drider at July 27, 2011 06:02 PM (uJSfP)

 

According to the comments I've read on this thread, the repubs have already got all the blame.  *spit*

285 Politics is the art of the possible.

286 274 So... that means were raising the debt ceiling by $22B?  Right?

Slightly over $900B and cutting that much or more over the 10-yr budget window.

Can we have biannual budgeting now?.

287 Ok, here's a scenario:

We hold out for a real plan.  That never actually materializes.  Nothing gets passed.  The country's credit rating gets downgraded, and the economy tanks even further.  Obama gets on the media almost everyday and hammers home that he kept trying to do something, but the stubborn Republicans in the House were held up by the tea party.

Question:  Does this help us or hurt us come November?  Under that scenario will enough of the the public eat Barry's bullshit to carry him through by blaming Republicans?  Or will enough of the public see what we were trying to do?

288 we want step 5. with one house, we can achieve part of step 1.

That's BS.
The house *must* authorize all spending.
If they had the political courage they could stop this...by themselves, they just won't.

289

We need a fifth major political party in the country.

The Tea Party will be the third political party to replace the Republicans, but they won't be effective. The fourth party will be good, but there'll still be enough people left in the third party to keep the fourth party from going anywhere. That's why we need a fifth party -- to pick up the mantle of conservatism where the Republicans and the Tea Party and the other guys dropped it.

We should start looking now to find a candidate to challenge Biden in 2020.

290 "Does this help us or hurt us come November?" Winning the whole shooting match next November is a booby prize. It's the dog catching the car. Hit the ceiling now, and make the great pain that is inevitable at this point happen on his watch.

291
Question:  Does this help us or hurt us come November?  Under that scenario will enough of the the public eat Barry's bullshit to carry him through by blaming Republicans?  Or will enough of the public see what we were trying to do?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 27, 2011 06:09 PM (Y5I9o)

Or, the plan passes, and does nothing. The country's credit rating is downgraded, economy tanks, and Obama gets on the media every day to blame the evil Republicans.

Here's the thing, since the Republicans are going to be demonized by the Dems anyway, how about having a plan worth taking the heat for??

292

Also, the American people refuse to let anyone touch their benefits. Go to Free Republic, for God's sake, and see that they're all saying, "I paid into Medciare and Social Security my whole life! Cut something else!"
We're still not serious yet.
-Llarry

 

I turn 52 this August and I'd rather see entitlements cut than see DOOM and blood in the streets of America.

 

293 Why do they even use this baseline budget thing, is it a law?  If so, basing numbers on last year's budget instead of next year's projected budget would go a long way to moving the argument in a realistic direction.

As long as our side can say we will only get boned by a 1.74 trillion increase next year instead of 1.76 trillion and then brag about how much they are saving us, we are just rearranging the deck chairs.

294 287 If it requires a "budget expert" to explain, it's not a cut.

It actually doesn't require one. All that happened is CBO scored by the right baseline this time, using April instead of January. 

295 Okay, so what you're saying is that if we hadn't taken the House, and it was still in thrall to Nancy Pelosi, the outcome would have been the same?

That strawman won't hunt.  Having the House means we can vote to raise the debt ceiling, or not.  That really is our only leverage.  If we won't use it, there is no way to cut the spending.  The Democrats will just not agree on a budget and we will run on CRs until Obamacare kicks in and they we are well and truly fucked.

296 >>Huh, so you haven't been reading the comments then, because a bunch of commenters have given ideas on such techniques. I ain't do your work for you. Bullshit. A lot of commenters here keep saying walk away and let it burn as if that is somehow a magical solution. Even the Tea Party freshman in Congress don't agree with that because it doesn't work outside the realm of blogs. Throwing up your hands and saying let it burn is not a strategy. >>Yes, really. Nothing. We get nothing. Oh, no new taxes. Was there the slightest chance in hell that the Democrats were going to get tax rate increases through the House? No. This is exactly what I am talking about. Nobody here doubts for a second that the Republicans in the House would agree to tax hikes but are furious that we couldn't get the Senate and Obama to agree to massive cuts. How does that make sense? I understand the frustration. I'm as frustrated as anyone. But pounding on the table and insisting that our guys do the impossible doesn't seem like a real workable plan to me. We did get something even if its small. Neither this plan nor the Reid plan as they exist today have the slightest chance of becoming law. But we are putting out reasonable positions and forcing Obama to engage. This is the game and its the best we can do when we only have the House.

297

@284: "If one is going forward at a high rate of speed and wishes to go backwards, they must do the following:

1. take the foot off the gas to begin to slow down
2. apply pressure to the brake until stopped
3. put the car in reverse
4. step on the gas
5. enjoy success

we want step 5. with one house, we can achieve part of step 1. "

The Thelma & Louise cliff is 100 feet in front of us (if we're lucky).  Steps 1-4 are irrelevant.  The only *real* options here are a T-stop or a bootlegger reverse.  Unfortunately, the guys driving the national car are somewhat less than Formula 1 rated.

298 Al Franken proves the 52% have done more damage to America than anyone could ever of imagined

If only the damage could have been confined exclusively to that fifty-two percent...

299 Moving to the latest new thread on DOOM.

300 Goodwin Leftwing Liu

Not a damn thing good about it. Well, OK, maybe a few chuckles.

301 We hold out for a real plan.  That never actually materializes.  Nothing gets passed.  The country's credit rating gets downgraded, and the economy tanks even further.



Question:  Does this help us or hurt us come November?

I don't know.

You keep laboring under the false assumption that November 2012 things are just going to be hunky dory for election holding and such.

Your telling me not to mess up the carpets for your little penthouse party while you scheduled the building it's being held in to be demo'ed prior to.

I don't know how to talk to you.

302 What I think inevitably is going to have to happen (perhaps not in my lifetime) is a very large group of people with implements of personal intimidation to go to DC and demand a constitutional governmnent.

303 Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 06:13 PM (TMB3S)

You still don't get it, the Republican leadership have given away the game from the first. They have all but made it clear that raising the debt ceiling was going to happen anyway, and as many other commenters have noted, that destroys their only leverage. Are you ok with that? Does that sound intelligent to you?

But, yea, Stupid Party and all that.

304 306 Why do they even use this baseline budget thing, is it a law?  If so, basing numbers on last year's budget instead of next year's projected budget would go a long way to moving the argument in a realistic direction.


Yes. The way CBO scores is rather arcane and some instances downright stupid. They need to use the recent baseline, and that's what they did here.

305 @304: sure, I agree that we'll get blamed regardless.  And I see what you mean about wanting something worth getting blamed for, since that's going to happen. 

But remember, our fight at this point isn't for Obama and the Dems, it's for the voting public, esp. Independents who love airy concepts things like "compromise" and "bipartisanship" and other fuzzy words.

My question, then, is that given that the shit is going to hit the fan regardless of whether anything passes or not, and given that we're going to get blamed regardless of what happens, what is most advantageous for us with those voter groups: passing something or not?

306 >>You still don't get it, the Republican leadership have given away the game from the first. They have all but made it clear that raising the debt ceiling was going to happen anyway, and as many other commenters have noted, that destroys their only leverage. Are you ok with that? Does that sound intelligent to you? You know what's stupid? Pretending it wasn't going to get raised. It's always been raised, even under Reagan 18 times, because it is agreement to pay bills our gov't has already incurred. Pretending you can just ignore our bills and walk away from them, that's what get us the name of the Stupid Party.

307 "Throwing up your hands and saying let it burn is not a strategy." As much as it disgusts me to admit it, Reid and Obama are human beings. Tabling CC&B was a a conscious action on Reid's part. Threatening to veto any plan that doesn't raise the limit past next year's election was a conscious action on Obama's part. These are not universal physical constants. These are decisions made by mere mortals that can easily be reversed. Reid and Obama are the hostage-takers. The blood is on their hands if they choose to shoot the hostage.

308 Soona, I'm not so sure to agree with the "Republicans are at fault" statement. We are at 6 days and counting. give or take a few days so time is short. So whats you angle on how to proceed from here if the senate kills it?

309
Pretending you can just ignore our bills and walk away from them, that's what get us the name of the Stupid Party.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 06:20 PM (TMB3S)

Yea, right.

Actually, BULLSHIT. It's already been established that we have enough revenues to service our debt, so you want to try again?

310 CBO letter

311 @314: Ok, so let's assume that the shit is going to completely hit the fan regardless of what happens, and the country is going to be in tatters by November.

Let's also assume that nowhere near enough people in Congress will ever believe that enough to do anything about it.  That's the reality, right?  I mean, you may be completely right, but what good is screaming about it going to do?

So, given that November doesn't matter, and also given that screaming now achieves nothing of substance, what is left to do?  Nothing.  Why are you still online when you should be packing away resources and fortifying in your bunker?

Again, this may be precisely the conundrum we're in.  But there's at least a slim chance that that won't happen.  And we need to be prepared for that eventuality, which makes my concerns about strategy for November at least worth thinking about.

312 -22 -42 -59 -75 -86 -99 -112 -126 -141 -156

not much better.

313 >>Actually, BULLSHIT. It's already been established that we have enough revenues to service our debt, so you want to try again? You should try reading something other than blogs. We have enough money to service our debt for a very short amount of time not indefinitely. The bond market is already showing signs of stress. We will have about $130 billion in cash from deposits on hand and the next and final bond raise. That should last a week or two. Then what?

314
Then what?

Posted by: JackStraw at July 27, 2011 06:27 PM (TMB3S)

You can't be this dumb.

Even if the Republicans intended to raise the debt ceiling, why, WHY broadcast that during negotiations? They, and you, never heard of bluffing? But no, like typical Republican fashion, they capitulated early.

They weren't interested in trying to force anything remotely substantiative. No, no, we must leave that for later. Yes, next time we will get our due.

Next. Time.

315 Jackstraw, whats your answer to this blockade that Reid and Obama have erected to get a plan through and signed?

316 Then what?

So no taxes out of this Friday's paycheck?  Woot!  Or crap, maybe it's the one in August.

317 One question, don't spending bills originate from the House? Don't we have the keys to the ignition and the slurpee to the car?

318 >>You can't be this dumb. And yet you've not been able to refute one thing I said. >>Let me give you an easy one. Explain to me why the Tea Party freshman are now lining up behind the Boehner plan. Take your time. >>Jackstraw, whats your answer to this blockade that Reid and Obama have erected to get a plan through and signed? I don't know that there is a master stroke that is going to get us what we want with the way DC is currently configured. The Senate under Reid is not going to approve anything Obama won't allow them too and Obama is a proven liar. I think the best they can do is at least keep giving the appearance of being willing to negotiate in good faith and putting out the most favorable bills Boehner can get through the House. I have no idea how this ends but given that many here predicted Boehner would fold at the beginning of the negotiation and we are now days away from the deadline with no solution in sight I think he has done pretty well so far.

319 Don't we have the keys to the ignition and the slurpee to the car?

Yeah, but there's no cup holders.

320 >>You can't be this dumb.

And yet you've not been able to refute one thing I said.

Ah, so you can't read. Let me know next time, so I don't bother.

321 >>Ah, so you can't read. Let me know next time, so I don't bother. Very well, actually. Apparently you can't do anything accept pound your tiny fists in rage and spout dumb shit and evade simple questions. You won't have to "let me know next time". Once is enough for me.

322 I agree with you Jack, there is no master stroke but time is short and I think our choices are stark? And I think JB has done the best he can do, I have felt actual pride in his leadership over the past two weeks and lemme tell you, I NEVER thought that would happen with this crowd. But that still leaves us with a bit of a problem, the blockade is set, JB has sent in the very best he can do or has he? He could offer to extend this deal past the election in which case, lets face it, all of the political point counting goes heavy in favor of Obama, 4 more years...yay. He could offer up straight forward taxes, not the shady tax increases on the loop hole fixes.Points Obama, 4 more years and yay. The fact is, from my point of view, JB has done his job, done it well according to the both of us and still cant get through that blockade. The only other viable step is to walk away bu tnot to do it....now. Do it Sunday evening, explain the facts, JB did what he can do with no help from the otherside, no plan from the other side, no nothing from the other side but no's. Explain a new chapter in American history on how we just wasted trillions of dollars without having a care of paying it back and how the POTUS now will have to decide who gets the money and who doesn't beyond SS, interest on our debt and the military.Discretion is all his. That would be the way I would do it, I bet your glad I never ran and won for office.

323

The GOP should have passes a bill raising the debt limit only enough to meet debt service and no more.

Then gone to the American people and said, "We will not default, but this president has increased federal spending by more than 1 trillion a year and it's time to take away the credit card."

If the Democrats start howling about social security, well, gee, don't we have all of them on record insisting that SS is solvent and will be for the next billion years when they were beating up Bush over trying to privatize it?

See, there's all kinds of ways they could have played this, but they did what they always do--kicked the can down the road and rolled over.

I'm done with them. Dishonest and cagey I can put up with if I have to. Dishonest and incompetent, I won't.

 

324 sorry Warden, the coulda,shoulda,woulda gambit is over.The proposed deadline isTuesday of next week, next Friday at the latest. The wise thing to due IMHO is to pass bills in the house on who must be paid first.SS,interest on the debt and the military to try and ease some minds, in doing that in itself will be veiwed as political grandstanding that in a sense is but it is also preparing people on what they can expect. JB and the house can do no better, the vote in the Senate on. CCB missed by five Democrat votes, that lost opportunity would be hammered home every time an open mic was within a hundred feet of me. If they don't pass this bill, I see no other options than to walk.

325

sorry Warden, the coulda,shoulda,woulda gambit is over.

And so is my support for the GOP.

326 sorry Warden, the coulda,shoulda,woulda gambit is over. And so is my support for the GOP. I cant say that I blame ya. How is 4 more years of Obama looking for ya?

327 "How is 4 more years of Obama looking for ya?" At least that will bring things to an abrupt halt. The alternative is another thirty-five years of slaving away at my job to pay Peggy Joseph's mortgage and cover some fat union fuck's hooky afternoon spent protesting and biting some real American's finger off.

328 For what it's worth: I think the House Republicans should rally behind this revision of the Boehner plan and pass it. Individual Republican representatives should blanket the airwaves with announcements of their reluctant compromise for the good of the nation. Then the House should draft another plan, one that calls for deep baseline-budget cuts in the current fiscal year and raises the debt ceiling beyond the election window, and pass that one, too. Then the Republicans should seek out every camera and microphone on Capitol Hill to announce that the GOP-controlled House has passed three separate bills addressing both the debt ceiling and the underlying spending problem. Republicans in both parties should call for Senate Democrats and the President to pass and sign one of the plans for the good of the nation. If the Senate refuses to pass one and the deadline passes, it won't be the fault of the House Republicans. If the Senate passes one but the President vetoes it, it won't be the fault of the House Republicans. If the Senate passes one and the President signs it, Obama will be exposed as the weak leader he is. He will be the one who capitulated, not the House Republicans. For the Triple-Word-Score bonus, if the deadline passes and the government goes into a shutdown, then we'll see real cuts in federal spending that take effect this year. And the Democrats will shoulder the blame for every crumb of gov'ment cheese that falls from the drooling mouth of the dependent class.

329 Lurkness, Im digging on option two deep "baseline budget cut" and raising the debt ceiling to go beyond the election. So you have the gumption to go for a more realistic, less skullduggery kind of cuts while offering the olive branch of not talking about this subject again until the next debt ceiling is reached. I like it and I suggest that you go into hiding until this battle has concluded.It may not be safe for you in offering up such logical ideas in the face of rabid Democrats and Establishment Republicans alike.

330

"Republicans Lining Up Behind Boehner Plan"

 

fucking rat-bastards!

331
I cant say that I blame ya.
How is 4 more years of Obama looking for ya?

Posted by: Drider at July 27, 2011 07:23 PM (uJSfP)

You don't get it.

We're going to be in a world wide depression by 2013 because we refuse to get a handle on this shit.

4 more years of Obama? Who cares? Not me. 

But you just keep on thinkin' we'll get 'em next time.

332 Warden, things look bleak,I know.Hell, when Henry Paulson, during GW's run would get up in front of the cameras and said the things he did, what we needed to spend or the lights would go out, my business sales would drop 3 percent and that guy showed up on camera a lot. Brother, I can tell you that it opened my eyes as to what the D's and R's were all about, I still don't trust them a lick at this point but you on,y lose the war when you die or quit fighting. The carnage of the different type of politician in this debt ceiling battle is the hope I needed to carry on. Point is, who runs the show,even if it is not a perfect ringmaster is one Hell of a lot better than. Obama, the slave master.

333 I'm sorry, but if they held the line and stuck to the original Cut Cap and Balance plan, they would energize the base, attract the independents *and thus decisively win in 2012.* Going wobbly only results in a milquetoast Republican Presidential Candidate a la 1996. I wonder if the Establishment Base is going for this sell out because they are open borders cheap labor greedheads (Wall Street Journal) and they know the Tea Party is for border closure and an immigration "time out" so we can integrate and assimilate again.

334 "OK, we'll do it your way, but a little bit slower." That's teaching them a lesson, GOP! Pass the Ryan Plan again and adjourn. Worst case is the Feds have to live on what they take in. Sort of like having a balanced budget amendment already passed. Assholes.

335 Better still - 6 month budget and tiny cap increase and adjourn. And I admire the innocence of a Balanced Budget Amendment. Like we really want to give the judiciary even MORE power? Nice thinking, guys.

336 There are still two major flaws in the Boehner plan:  the lack of a hard cap to preserve the cuts in the out years, and the stupid congressional committee assigned the task of new cuts.  That should fall to the President, who runs the government.

And he should be on notice that the next debt-ceiling increase vote will be limited to the CBO scoring of the cuts he submits.  Smoke and mirrors = no increase.

As far as getting more than this, people are right that we need it and it would be best, but they just don't seem to count guns very well.  We control only one-half of Congress.  The Democrats control the other half AND the Executive.  There are limits to what we can force them to do, especially since they don't give a rat's patootie what is good or necessary for the country.

Elections matter, and those who stayed home before because McCain is a jerk should remember that, just in case they don't like our next nominee either.

337

GOP Strategy during the match:  Look we got him on the ropes, he is going down for the count, *looks to our corner* quick throw in the towel before he hits the ground.

This proves we have elected morons to run this country.  I know a great deal of the electorate knows more about snooky than Congress, but good God this is disgusting.  Let us face the fact the GOP establishment is happy with second place.

338

The Democrats have thrown down the gauntlet and announced they'd rather default than stop Obama's blank checks.  So much for the wisdom of those who repeated informed us how purity would destroy the GOP and America and that compromise and moderation was required.

 

In my younger days it was pounded into me that to know your emeny was to anticipate his moves.  This would either insure victory if studied, or defeat if you were ignorant of his aims.  So I am relieved to see that the same arguments I have seen here in favor of TARP bailouts have yielded the predictable results.

 

But I will say I'd rather default now than allowing the RINOs to continue to accomodate the Democrats in their spending frenzy.

 

Boehner's surrender is sure now.  I believe this will either insure Obama's victory because it demonstrates how bankrupt and spineless the GOP is or it will mean the end of the legacy GOP and their vampire allies.

 

I look forward with relish to see the explanation for the Democrat's rejection of repeated attempts at moderation.  If anyone believes that Boehner's plan was extreme or would actually solve the structural flaws in our government's spending I'd love this blog to provide a lengthy and extensive explanation.

In the meantime gold has reached 1620, and I heartily approve of Obama's economics.   I recomend gold futures as well as raw materials such as copper and oil.

 

For those unable to protect themselves against hyperinflation, just look at the 70s, or Argentina in 1990 or Zimbabwe or even Hungary 1948 or Weimar Germany. 

 

Every country gets the government it deserves.