1 mmm that fresh new thread smell

2 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure. Good morning, everyone.

3 I forget, has any main page post stated that its NOT free tuition too? That one keeps popping up in the comments a lot.

4

I can only imagine the scene of destruction in the previous thread: empty Valu-Rite bottles everywhere intermingled with pudding cups, clumps of Ewok fur...

I don't wanna look.

5 BackwardsBoy, it's not pretty

6 That whole "live there a year" thing is bullcrap.  The admissions dept of every school reviews your application for in-state tuition and decides.  And even if that's the case, you STILL get boned for a year.  Believe me, I've been there.

Giving cart blanche in-state tuition to kids of illegals while making me pay out of state tuition (that year cost me an extra $10k) is horseshit.

7 Mitt Romney never allowed illegals to get in-State tuition when he was governor.  He just had them mow his lawn.

8 >> Regardless of how you feel about the extension of this benefit to the kids of illegals, can we at least acknowledge the benefit isn't extended to them and denied to US citizens? Not if you'll say or do anything to win the GOP nomination.

9

There was a drag queen on Hannity last night.....claiming to be Pamella Geller.

Hannity was totally fooled too, he thought it was her.

10 Illegals in Texas are getting Gardasil, and hard working, patriotic Americans aren't!! What kind of country are we living in???

11 @9  OMG, I saw her!  She has had something major done to her face.  Facelift maybe?  That, along with her very heavy makeup and false eyelashes so long that I thought they were going to fold over on themselves & stab her in the eye.  It was baaaad.

12 4

I can only imagine the scene of destruction in the previous thread: empty Valu-Rite bottles everywhere intermingled with pudding cups, clumps of Ewok fur...

I don't wanna look.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Tea Party SOB at September 24, 2011 10:12 AM (d0Tfm)

As long as you don't wake up and see an Ewok standing over you wearing your underwear...

13

Still voting for Perry in the primaries, at least you know what you're getting. With Romney have no clue, cannot keep track of all the flip-flops he's made. Perry is just a bad debater, youtube has all his debates, he's just not good, but he governed pretty conservatively.

If Romney's the general nominee, fine, he's got my vote, if its Perry, fine, he's got my vote. Heck, even if Ron Paul is the nominee, he's got my vote, he's a hell of lot better than the idiot that's there now. Any of the people running would be a million times better than what's there now.

As for this in-state tuition legislation, makes sense, and it may hurt in the primaries, it will actually helps in the general, its seems practical as far as what a state can do when the Fed has neglected to protect the border and refused to deport illegals. There's still many months and debates until the voting starts, Perry needs to improve, if he just gets worse in debates, then I'll reconsider. Romney has so many made-for-TV moments of all his flip-flops, wonder why Perry won't use them?

14 We're gonna forget all about this in three months.

15 yeah Santorum is just wrong, frankly

but it is also disturbing that Perry couldn't call out Santorum's bullshit aptly

16 Why should someone who is federally barred from getting a job in the US without a valid SSN/work visa get a taxpayer-subsidized higher education?

Are we giving them an education so they can take it back to Mexico?  Or, lie when they are applying for a job?

Ok, they pay sales tax.  Why should they take a seat away from a Texas resident (or any out-of-state resident) whose parents have been paying that and more their whole lives?

Listen - Perry is still at the top of my list, but I have a big problem with this and he'd failed to give me a good answer (other than that I lack compassion, or something)

17 We had a teacher call our Hispanic tea party leader a Nazi. Not sure going to a Texas university is worth the money.

18

@11 Are we sure it was her?

I mean, whoever that was.....s/he reminded me of that 1930's actress Mae West. ....You know, the one that the drag queens love to imitate.

19 I get that, but the fact remains should illegals, regardless of how long they have lived in a State, be eligible for in-state tuition? Is this a Federal Question or a State Question? Interesting and complicated question. If States can give in-state benefits to illegal aliens and the Feds don't object, how come if the States enact other Laws concerning illegal alines the Feds jump ugly on them? Is it only a one way Street?

20
Is there anything else in the so-called Texas Dream Act?

You know, sneaky shit besides the tuition stuff?

21

7 Mitt Romney never allowed illegals to get in-State tuition when he was governor.  He just had them mow his lawn.
Funny. 
The in state tuition thing is not a big deal if Perry hadn't explained it like a progressive freshman in college!  "It's what I feel!  It's the right thing!  You've gotta have heeeaaart!"  What is his problem?  Do they not have anyone who can go over his answers with him?

22 Uh ok, now that it has been explained by my betters, Perry it is////

23 Seems like the real loophole is for small businesses, and enterprising kid from Arkansas could incorporate his "Footrubs for Strippers & Single Moms" business and get in-state tuition.

24 Perry has his (major) faults but I am through with rinse like Mitt

25

I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

26 Rinos damn autocorrect

27

Maybe the Rickster will point this out in the next debate, along with how much he and Texas are hamstrung by the Feds' refusal to do their jobs enforcing border security.

He's going to be forced to up his game in the debates if he truly wants to win. It's my guess that he doesn't take PR coaching very well. And this concern isn't for me, it's for all those voters who will take the most superficial of looks at a candidate, then vote for the one that "feels right."

Perry's still my pick. And he will remain so unless he screws up royally and opens the door for Mittens to be the nominee, something Karl Rove and the national RNC are salivating over, I'm sure. Like McLame, it's Mitt's "turn." How'd that work out last time?

28 By the way Dave, it's 70 up in Dallas and I am on my way to the drag races. God I love the smell of nitromethane in the morning.....it smells like......victory!

29 Perry doesn't want a fence. Perry thinks we should rollover like he has for the lax enforcement policies of the US Govt. Perry thinks a break on tuition at public expense is a good thing. Perry thinks it is all no big deal. Fuck him.

30

Option 3, get a scholarship that grantees in state tuition.

Option 4, join the Texas National Guard.

31 Nevergiveup - actuallly the Feds require education benefits to be a administered by residency, not citizenship. If this issue is really a hill to die on, then what about the mountain behind it: illegals attending public primary and secondary schools?

32 #16 Because VT the Federal government has not secured the borders and these kids are here.  They are here.  They were born in Texas, raised in Texas, and are interacting with the citizens of Texas in their communities.  Would you rather have a bunch of college educated, motivated illegals in your communities, or a bunch of illegal kids who can't get into college, who can't be removed from your communities (because the Federal gov isn't doing it's job), in dead end jobs and engaging in crime.  The citizens of Texas decided they want these kids in college.  Why is this an issue?

33 I agree with backwards boy. That scares the shitte out of me...

34 BackwardsBoy, okay, honest question: did you get the impression, though, that Perry's answers in the debate were just recited talking points?  That is the impression I got anyway.  I don't think he can think well on his feet.

35 They were born in Texas, raised in Texas, and are interacting with the citizens of Texas in their communities.

if they were born in Texas, that makes them not-illegals

36
Susan Collins gave this week's GOP radio address. She talked about how regulations are hurting job creation. (This idiot voted for the stupid Dodd-Frank bill, btw).

She made a lot of good points. But she sounds like Forrest Gump.

37 27 Maybe the Rickster will point this out in the next debate, along with how much he and Texas are hamstrung by the Feds' refusal to do their jobs enforcing border security. The Rickster needs to start to actually practice for the debates, Goddamit. I like him, a lot. But he needs to stop coming across as a stuttering clusterfuck at debates. Why is it so fracking hard for him to say the most obvious things during debates, and what the hell went through his mind when he decided to accuse anyone concerned with illegal immigrants pocketing benefits of being "heartless?" That is BS and I call him on it. All I can think is that the power of the consultants is now so rampant, it will destroy common sense and keep Obama in power until January 2017.

38 They want those warm bodies in college just for the exact same reason they want them in public ed in general - more bodies mean more sweet, sweet subsidies Is there any evidence at all anywhere that Perry is at all conservative regarding illegal immigration? Anything to mitigate the very clear evidence that is is pro-illegal immigration from Mexico?

39 Wonder what else he finds "heartless."

40

o/t- on repealing Obamacare:

"If the GOP wins the WH and the Sen in 2012 they shouldn’t jam repeal through via reconciliation rules. Think smarter, since they may still be a few seats shy of a filibuster. The Prez can give a waiver to all 50 states and territories and the GOP can take the high road and say, “We respect the rules.”

Then Boehner and McConnell sets up a vote on repeal as close to the Â’14 election as possible giving the Dem Senators running in red and red-leaning states (VA, CO, AR, LA, SD, MT, AK, NC, NH) the choice of either angering their own base or angering independents and juicing up GOP voter turnout. ItÂ’s a win-win for the GOP. If they vote to repeal it at the time, it's done. If they fail... they get destroyed in the fall election.

The resulting filibuster-proof Senate will not only allow the GOP to repeal Obamacare, but also allow them to pass an entire conservative reform agenda through both houses."

 

Read this on a comment about whether or not a Republican sweep in 2012 could be enough to dismantle Obamacare. We will probably end up a few seats shy of a filibuster (and the RINOs of course may give Dems more cushion) after next year. But forcing a "fall on your sword" scenario in an election cycle where the Dems have far, far more vulnerable seats gets you above that hurdle.

Right now I see us gaining 5-6 seats in the senate next year and another 6-8 in the House, not a lot (but then again we won so many in 2010 we aren't going to approach those gains two elections in a row). But there would be tremendous pressure after 2 straight R cycles for the Dems in red states to fall in line or be annihilated.

41 As a Texan for 14 years, I'm in Perry's camp, regardless of the in-state tuition for Texas-resident illegals. I know that "well done" is better than "well said". As said upthread, the Feds aren't policing the border, so we have a problem and THE LEGISLATURE, with only ONE DISSENTING VOTE, chose to allow Texas-resident illegals in-state tuition. Perry didn't do an executive order, it was the Legislature, and he signed it. BTW, I thought Santorum's Inner Prick started showing during that part of the debate. I used to like Santorum, but always thought of him as a guy who was like 5'7". Turns out he's actually quite tall, but at the debate, with his petulant, rude interrupting of Perry, he began to look like a short man who is overcompensating for being a runt. Santorum, class it up, yo. I am determined to vote for whomever the Republican nominee is, even Ron Paul, though he'd let Iran nuke us, we wouldn't be totally bankrupt when it happened, but I will put a clothespin on my nose if I have to vote for you, dude.

42 OT: Obama approval rating at 36%.

43 I don't give a fuck if they can't get a good job. Let them go on unemployment in Mexico City.

44

Whoa, new thread.  Yes, if there's going to be a debate, probably a good idea to agree on what's in the policy being debated.  Seems clear children of illegals aren't being singled out to receive the benefit, it's just that they're being included - along with just about everyone else - as those eligible for it. 

This Administration seems to welcome misinformation on this with claims that their programs aren't 'amnesty'.  They just give illegals a free pass on being errr illegal - oh and then sprinkle in tuition and benefits! George Orwell would be proud, speaking of which ... http://bit.ly/qkbidO

45 Nevergiveup - actuallly the Feds require education benefits to be a administered by residency, not citizenship. If this issue is really a hill to die on, then what about the mountain behind it: illegals attending public primary and secondary schools? Posted by: Jean at September 24, 2011 10:25 AM (elbGQ) How about illegals attending public schools? Who is paying for them? Do their parents pay any local taxes?

46 Regardless of how you feel about the extension of this benefit to the kids of illegals, can we at least acknowledge the benefit isn't extended to them and denied to US citizens.

Who has to jump through more hoops to get their bennies, and who gets in the most trouble if it turns out they don't qualify?

Who is held up as noble and pure and good and deserving and shame on you, you bigot, and who is ignored or derided?

I want people in other countries to think "I shouldn't come to America illegally, it'll ruin my kids' lives."  Not "I must get to America illegally so that my kids can have good lives."

47 Spin...spin...spin...

48 35 They were born in Texas, raised in Texas, and are interacting with the citizens of Texas in their communities. And by "interacting," you mean, "Picking their wallets." Anyway, if they were "born in Texas," they aren't illegal.

49

Well it's clear that whoever the 'front runner' is.....gets attacked from all sides.

If Perry drops down in the poll rankings, then whoever the new front runner is will get all the attacks. .....I would love to see Bachmann, Santorum and the other ankle-biters start making shit up about Romney.

Bachmann: ...."A woman came up to me in the parking lot and was in tears because RomneyCare caused her 21 year old son to be retarded." 

50 SurferDoc, so your holding out for Goldwater?

51 32 #16 Because VT the Federal government has not secured the borders and these kids are here.  They are here.  They were born in Texas, raised in Texas, and are interacting with the citizens of Texas in their communities.  Would you rather have a bunch of college educated, motivated illegals in your communities, or a bunch of illegal kids who can't get into college, who can't be removed from your communities (because the Federal gov isn't doing it's job), in dead end jobs and engaging in crime.  The citizens of Texas decided they want these kids in college.  Why is this an issue?

Posted by: Timwi at September 24, 2011 10:25 AM (Sxt4Z)

"The citizens of Texas decided they wanted these kids in college". Bears repeating.

52 Is "Option 2" even an option for someone who is in this country illegally?  How are you supposed to get a job, own a business, get married, or own property without a SSN/work visa........unless you steal someone's identity of course.

I don't see how this changes anything - if an illegal can graduate from a Texas high school, they get to take a seat in a top in-state university away from a legal resident.

53 Dad Photoshopped Ewoks Into His Family Pictures http://tinyurl.com/42wc6pa Well, atleast they weren't hobos

54 #32 - If they were born in Texas - they wouldn't be "illegal."  They would be "citizens."

55 Another point on this that's frequently disregarded - it's not like Perry did it by executive order or something. The law was passed by an overwhelming majority in the Texas legislature (only 4 no votes, IIRC).

56

Perry's a really bad debater, and with Barry and his LSM cohorts we all know what's going to happen. The advantage in 2012 versus 2008, anyone with any level of independence already knows where the LSM lies -- so anything they report, question about any repub candidate is discounted in those voter's minds, I just hope Perry improves on his debate attacks, but unless he screws up horribly in the next few debates, then I'll go with someone else. Or else I'm voting for Perry. Romney is too slick and too untrust worthy, but he is more conservative than Mccain, so if Romney is the nominee, fine, I will absolutely vote for him.

57 HitandRun, I want people in other countries to think "I shouldn't come to America illegally, it'll ruin my kids' lives." Not "I must get to America illegally so that my kids can have good lives." so your going to campaign on an "I hate kids" platform

58
hahahaha!

59 Anyway Dave, I see what you're trying to do, God Bless You, I really do... but the thing is, What college aged out-of-state kid can afford to establish a domicile in Texas for a full year before even starting college? Whatever the financial benefit of in-state tuition rates would be, it seems the cost of living in Texas for a full year before that would eat them up. The BETTER Argument is this: the feds let these people in here. We cannot change that until we control the federal government. In the meantime, these kids are going to be sucking up expensive social services and benefits unless they at least become financially independent... so making it easier for them to get college educated is a pragmatic move on our part. Who knows, with a college degree under their belt, they might even decide to return to Mexico for the high paying jobs that Obama is destroying here at home.

60
You're probably saying to yourselves, "Selves, why is Soothie laughing?"

brb...

61 Via NRO.

"An alien who is not lawfully present in the United States,” declares Section 505 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA), “shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State . . . for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident.”

62

There is an article by Kevin D. Williamson at National Review on Perry's immigration record featured at Hot Air that is good.

63

Posted by: Drillanwr at September 24, 2011 10:31 AM (z+Dxj)

ha that's cute

64 Can anyone explain how state run social security is a better alternative?

65
I'm laughing at this newest farce called Americans Elect.

It's an attempt to promote 3rd party candidates who are, get this, committed to bi-partisanship.

hahahahaha!

(We all know how that works, don't we?)

66 As long as there are no Affirmative Action shenanigans involved,  the least of our fucking problems is illegal Mexicans who actually get into college.  Too bad more of their white trash neighbors are incapable of doing likewise.

67 VT-02, residency is a State issue; citizenship isnt. Citizenship should be an issue for Pell grants, Stafford loans, service academies - it cant be for state colleges

68 Yeah Dave, I posted this on the ONT thread but I am emotional and can not be  believed.

69 This may have been brought up already, but something to keep in perspective is that Texas offers in-state tuition to active duty military and their families as a benefit for serving and an acknowledgement that military families don't really have a choice about where they live.

They offer that same benefit to illegal aliens.

70 When I went to grad school at A&M back in the 70's, IIRC foreign students paid a lower tuition rate than out of state students.  It was very popular with Middle East students in geotechnical and petroleum engineering. 

They all drove Carmaros for some reason.  You know, the one with the big eagle looking decal on the hood.

Anyway, I was not a Texas resident, but paid in-state tuition, because my wife worked for the University.  There you go.

71

>> What college aged out-of-state kid can afford to establish a domicile in Texas for a full year before even starting college?

Oh, I don't know. A parent of said kid?  Who moved here to work maybe?

Perhaps they can afford to do this.  Seems to happen a lot around here lately.

72

Perry doesn't want a fence.

I, and the country, do.

I'm working on my Monday post (which is normally a mini-DOOM! post on economics) about a way to construct a fence that consists of currently available crowd-dispersal methods that could be deployed, along with personnell, along the Mexican border. There's more than one way to keep illegals out, it doesn't have to be a physical fence, but I'm not talking about drones as the primary method of detection/enforcement, except in the early phases of deployment.

I envision something like an APC with a non-lethal deterrant like the one the military has that causes a burning sensation within a certain range mounted on top. Inside would be border patrol agents with real-time communications to apprehend those who managed to get past the beams. There shouldn't be very many.

I can't understand why there isn't a politician alive who wouldn't be scared to death to have been "the one who failed to secure the border" if it ever happened that the next Mohammed Atta simply walked across the border and carried out another attack. Well, I can, actually. Their zeal for power naturally outweighs any threat to the American public.

73 Spin all you want. Perry stepped on his dick. Repeatedly. He doesn't even look like he knows that he did. He's not ready for the bigs.

74 so your going to campaign on an "I hate kids" platform

Posted by: Jean at September 24, 2011 10:33 AM (elbGQ)


Yup, that's exactly what I was getting at.  Your reading comprehension skills are fabulous.

75 70 Crucifixion is a dawdle. Wait 'til Sarah announces and you will see the pure hate come to the top. Posted by: Independent Voter at September 24, 2011 10:37 AM (hKi42) I'm just wondering... When do you plan on acknowledging Sarah is NOT announcing? I mean, are you expecting an October (2012) Surprise announcement from her, or what? No, really... when will you give it up?

76
Americans Elect will hold their convention in a place called Online, USA.

77 I really hope Sarah runs and then fumbles really bad to shut people up. Jesus. Sick of the Palin fans.

78 Perry stepped on his dick. Repeatedly. He doesn't even look like he knows that he did. He's not ready for the bigs.

Instead of repeatedly telling us about how bad Perry's dick is how about telling us why we should worship on Romney's dick?

79 75 Spin all you want. Perry stepped on his dick. Repeatedly. He doesn't even look like he knows that he did. He's not ready for the bigs. Posted by: SurferDoc at September 24, 2011 10:38 AM (STdkO) OK, and a question for YOU: If President Romney in mid-2014 announces that he wants to form a Presidential Bi-partisan Blue Ribbon Committee that includes the likes of Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry to look at ways to "Fix the National Healthcare Law," how will YOU react to that? What will you say to the rest of us, at THAT Point??

80 What part of "illegal" don't some people understand. Kick their asses out, now.

81
Why Can't Our Leaders Work Together?

This is a question asked by children and fools, no?

82 ugh
you ever been in that state where you are too awake to go back to bed, but you are too tired to get anything productive done?
I'm there

83 78 Americans Elect will hold their convention in a place called Online, USA. Posted by: Soothsayer at September 24, 2011 10:40 AM (sqkOB) Oh, so they will exclude those without internet access?

84 Posted by: CoolCzech at September 24, 2011 10:42 AM (niZvt)

Why wait until 2014? How about June 2011?

As Democratic and Republican leaders in Washington struggled to find agreement on spending cuts and extending the debt limit, Mitt Romney struck a conciliatory note in New Hampshire on Monday by lamenting partisan feuding while touting his record of working with Democrats -- even the Senate's onetime liberal lion Edward M. Kennedy.

85 I hope Mccain doesn't campaign for Perry or Romney (and Jimmy Carter in Romney's case as well)

86
Nonpartisan leadership.

Oxymoron much, morons?

87 69 Yeah Dave, I posted this on the ONT thread but I am emotional and can not be  believed.

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 10:37 AM (M9Ie6)

Wait, so someone jabbed you with a Tardisil syringe?  How did that happen?

88
Oh, so they will exclude those without internet access?

Good point. They are a discriminatory party and I shall report them to...

ATTACK WATCH!

89 Do their parents pay any local taxes?

I have the same questions.  How does an illegal make a living, in Texas or anywhere?  I understand they can work for cash, in which case they still pay sales tax on everything, or use phony ID's, and still have all the withholding everybody else has. 

90 Lowandslow, so on this thread your pro-perry, is that Romney flip contagious?

91 Oh, so they will exclude those without internet access?

yup, and the convention will probably entail some cute little widget or something that requires broadband access

so they are excluding the poor and the rural folks

92 @90: Yeah, well in the meantime your insistence on tearing up all the Republican candidates that ARE running will make it that much harder for them to get rid of SCOAMF. Why don't you think that over, as you suck down your morning coffee?

93 My son worked hard last year as a senator at Texas A&M against the in-state tuition for illegals thing. He has written all about it and understands the issue deeply. This is one of those issues that, to me, is not totally black and white. Yes, as a matter of principal and the rule of law, it is clear cut and I disagree with the practice. However, as a practical matter, I do see Perry's point and would rather these people assimilate and become contributing members of the society. One of the problems is that the 'being on the path to citizenship' requirement is very vague and should have much more strict requirements. I'm a Perry supporter, but disagree with him on this issue. It's unfortunate that it's called the Texas DREAM act, as it get's lumped in on that pile of shit that the federal government tried to pass. With the situation the country is in right now, an in-state tuition rate for children of illegals is about 1,236th on my list of things to worry about.

94 Honestly, I'm tired of this blurring of the lines. I voted for Reagan as a Reagan Dem, I knew what Reagan stood for, what Carter stood for, the lines were distinct, the vision was different, there was no blurring. Perry seems the most distinct in policy from Barry Soetero.

95 2) would vote for a bowl of steaming diarrhea over SCOAMF.


Steaming Bowl of Diarrhea/Syphillitic Camel 2012!

96 The discussion really has never been about illegals, or illegals receiving in-state tuition ... the discussion has been about how to protect the Rino chosen to be our nominee by the establishment republican party (Mittens)


Funny how suddenly it is a bad thing to obey Federal Law (all children must have access to education) and State Law (everyone who has been in the state for a year can get in state tuition).  I guess that that whole 10th Amendment thing is out the window now, right?

Did Perry explain his position poorly?  H'll yes.

But no worse than how Mittens keeps flip flopping on how Father-of-Obamacare either is, or is not a bad program and either it is or is not something that he would get rid of and whether or not he would or would not issue executive orders to either give everyone a waiver or not.

Romney is a big govt, liberal squish who (now says that he has had) campaign conversion away from statism.

97 Chemjeff - stiff bloody mary, think about mowing the lawn, and morpheus will take you

98 Nobody has answered this yet:

Why should someone who is barred in the US from employment get a taxpayer-subsidized education?  The reality, of course, is that they are probably using stolen SSNs.  If I were more cynical, I'd say that this was nothing more than a vote-buying operation...

People are also forgetting that seats at state universities are finite.  An illegal getting being admitted might mean your kid (who got better grades even)....doesn't. 

99 Regardless of how you feel about the extension of this benefit to the kids of illegals, can we at least acknowledge the benefit isn't extended to them and denied to US citizens? The money is only a small part of it. You must have the understanding that every state university has a finite number of slots. When you allow an illegal to attend, you have taken the opportunity from an American citizen. That's my Issue. The cost is secondary. They should not be there period.

100 Progressive lite is still Progressive.  We need to stop people running government with feelings instead of laws.  Equal justice is law based, social justice is just touchy feeley progressive hoohah.  I'm not going to use liberals to define them, liberals in a classical sense opposed socialism in Europe. Not so much here.

101 Hosted a foreign high school student for two years, whose parents had to pay $3,000 per year to the school district.
Times that by the number of illegals currently in the district which numbers in the tens of thousands. Then add in money for special tutors, clothing stipend (yes it's true), school breakfast and lunch, medical care, etc.
Then call me heartless.

102 C'mon, everybody.  Have a heart.

Do the pollsters still find people saying Perry is "extreme," or "scary?"

103 93 Lowandslow, so on this thread your pro-perry, is that Romney flip contagious?

Posted by: Jean at September 24, 2011 10:45 AM (elbGQ)

What? How does showing that Texas's tuition policy is at odds with federal immigration law pro-Perry?

104 Red State also has a good article discussing this issue and the author agrees with Perry.

105 99 Did Perry explain his position poorly? H'll yes. But no worse than how Mittens keeps flip flopping on how Father-of-Obamacare either is, or is not a bad program and either it is or is not something that he would get rid of and whether or not he would or would not issue executive orders to either give everyone a waiver or not. Exactly. As aggravating as illegal immigration is, It won't destroy America. Obamacare WILL. The UN is predicting China will have the largest economy in the world by 2016. 3 years ago that prediction was set for 2025 or so. The difference in those dates is a tribute to the economic destruction Obama is wreaking on this country... the cost of Obamacare now dangling over the heads of private industry. We're arguing over side issues like in-state tuition and abortion and gun control. America's future as a superpower is at stake. Let's keep that in mind.

106 100 Chemjeff - stiff bloody mary, think about mowing the lawn, and morpheus will take you

heh - I can't drink in the AM anymore, it brings back bad memories

there was this one time in college, I got really amazingly drunk one night, woke up with the worst hangover, so I tried the "hair of the dog" trick and had another beer - then had breakfast - then puked it all up and went back to bed feeling worse

107 Regardless of how you feel about the extension of this benefit to the kids of illegals, can we at least acknowledge the benefit isn't extended to them and denied to US citizens? NO! Resoundingly, NO! No American citizen should be in line behind a non-citizen, illegal or otherwise, for an education. Close the borders. Shoot on sight.

108 @108: I'll take being mistaken for Ace as a compliment.

109

 BackwardsBoy, okay, honest question: did you get the impression, though, that Perry's answers in the debate were just recited talking points?  That is the impression I got anyway.  I don't think he can think well on his feet.

Yeah, especially when he trotted out the "heartless" meme on the illegal immigrant question. I still haven't watched the whole of Thursday's debate yet, but I've seen enough YT clips and read enough to know that Perry did himself no favors in it.

And, unfortunately, I'm with you that he doesn't seem able to think on his feet, NTTAWWT. If he needs time to examine a stance, I don't have a problem with it. He did, however, mention yesterday that we shouldn't be picking the best debater, but the candidate with the best record of accomplishment, or something to that effect. While he's quite right, that statement seems to me to be an admission of his less-than-stellar debate performances.

He's still my pick. Maybe he'll lay low for a while, get his debating chops up to speed (he'll need them in spades for the debate with the SCOAMF), let someone else take the lead (and the barbs) in the polls while working on his plan for the nation and the economy, which he has yet to produce.

He has some work to do. I trust he'll do it.

110 Lowandslow, the Texas policy conforms with Federal law - where do illegals get treated differently then Okies?

111 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

112 Dave in Texas used to be cool before he sold out to Big Leafblower. What's next, Dave? Allowing them to pay in-state tuition with bags of oranges and Chiclets? Sellout.

113 Get a clue. I hate Romney. Hate. Fucking hate Romney.

114 You must have the understanding that every state university has a finite number of slots. When you allow an illegal to attend, you have taken the opportunity from an American citizen.

eh - not really

the maximum occupancy of a state university is an ill-defined quantity

115 Perry is still my guy but the only thing an illegal should get is a quick deportation.

116 102 Nobody has answered this yet: Why should someone who is barred in the US from employment get a taxpayer-subsidized education? The reality, of course, is that they are probably using stolen SSNs. If I were more cynical, I'd say that this was nothing more than a vote-buying operation... Because in practice, they are NOT barred from being here or doing whatever they like. I don't like that state of affairs, I find it corrosive to the American tradition of the rule of law. But Democrat AND Republican administrations since at least Ronald Reagan's day have refused to enforce immigration laws.

117 (I can't believe that I'm defending Perry's position on this) I don't know what the exact numbers are, but Texas spends a HUGE amount of money for social services for illegals. Go to any emergency room or public clinic around here and you'll know what I mean. The cost of subsidizing part of an in-state tuition rate is minuscule in comparison and can lead to keeping these people and their families off the dole.

118 We're arguing over side issues like in-state tuition and abortion and gun control. America's future as a superpower is at stake. Let's keep that in mind.

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 24, 2011 10:52 AM (niZvt)

Neh, keep fighting about teh gheys and Perry's stammer. That'll win the popular vote.

The focus should be on Obama. Debates are great in a primary to flesh out differences, but when they become shoot-em-ups it just takes the focus off the SCoaMF. Whoever abandons this shitty "you suck/NO YOU SUCK!" shit and goes right back to blasting Obama consistently in their stump speeches and highlighting the many stuttering failures of a particular miserable clusterfuck has my vote in the primary. Playing primary whack-a-pol is going to hurt us.

119 Things are about to get bad enough to where people simply will NOT tolerate any benefits to illegal aliens,soon.

120 I also don't give a shit about the spawn they drop in the US.Call me heartless but I'd deny them citizenship and deport them too.

121 So, they still haven't fixed the military hole.  Military family gets reassigned to say, Ft. Hood in August of kids Sr. year in high school.  At the point of application (Nov, Feb, etc.) there is not yet 1 year residency, so if accepted at that point, in-state tuition does not apply.  Only applications tendered after 1 full year of residency qualify.

It's been 30 years now and that still hasn't been fixed, but we let children of illegal aliens, who through no fault of their own, reside in TX get such tuition benefits.

Great.

122 On the limited number of seats issue - states are not allowed to consider citizenship status only residency. Does Federal law need a massive overhaul, yes, but attacking Perry on something that passed a Texas legislature overwhelmingly and conforms to Federal law is silly. Tardisil was a better issue, before Bachmann kamikazied it.

123 Things are about to get bad enough to where people simply will NOT tolerate any benefits to illegal aliens,soon.

Posted by: steevy at September 24, 2011 10:57 AM (fyOgS)

Or when the money simply runs out and the poorer Dem voters find out their benefits are being swallowed up by people not even legally residing in the country. They are kept in the dark on that, for now.

124 118 Get a clue. I hate Romney. Hate. Fucking hate Romney. Posted by: SurferDoc at September 24, 2011 10:54 AM (STdkO) Well, I don't> I'm just concerned that if elected, he will not be resolute enough to rollback the incredible growth of government power that has taken place since Reagan left office. His defense of Romneycare does not reassure me. If he just came forward and said, "Listen, Massachusetts is a liberal state... what was I supposed to do? A Democrat would have done something much worse. I disliked it then, and will fight it on the national level," THAT would at least give me some reassurance. Why can't he do that???

125 The focus should be on Obama. Debates are great in a primary to flesh out differences, but when they become shoot-em-ups it just takes the focus off the SCoaMF.

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops. This is exactly why I bounced Bachmann off my short list.

The POS so-called debates are nothing but a chance for the MFM (including Fox) to bash all Republicans with gotcha questions. As bad as Newt is, he recognizes this.

How about instead of posting BS about people all supporters of candidates post why conservative Morons should support their candidate?

126 130 Agreed.

127 We're arguing over side issues like in-state tuition and abortion and gun control. America's future as a superpower is at stake. Let's keep that in mind. I see your point CC, However, if they are not going to bring up those big issues of substance like gov corruption etc. All we have to go on are the individual decisicions the candidates have made in the past. 30 second debate soundbites and controlled bickering like a married couple in a crowded resaurant isn't telling us shit. Apparently Perry's definition of illegal is different than websters dictionary. Is his definition of a Tax different too? When that's what you see, that's all you know.

128 Just to ground this conversation, thanks to Romney I have to prove to the state of Massachusetts every year that I have health insurance.

129 If he needs time to examine a stance, I don't have a problem with it.

But the lines of attack that he experienced during the debate were entirely predictable.  He didn't even have recited talking points for that.  It was like he just cut and pasted items from his stump speech.

This is probably me over-analyzing a bit, but I almost got the feeling that he didn't think he should have to answer questions like that.  There is an underlying arrogance to his demeanor that I don't like.

130 I'm disappointed that we don't have a viable candidate who is a through and through conservative.I don't expect perfection but that Perry answer invoking "heartless" treatment of illegals made me sick,that was compasionate conservative shit straight out of GW/Jeb Bush.

131 Why can't he do that???

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 24, 2011 10:59 AM (niZvt)

Because he knows that most primary voters won't "buy" that either.

The average Republican primary voter will hear that and say "so depending on the political climate your positions change."

It isn't any more reassuring than the "flip-flopping" he is exhibiting.

 

Mind you I will crawl over broken glass to vote for him if he wins the primary (and any "conservative" or R who doesn't vote for the R winner against Obama absolutely guzzles liberal semen by the bucketful), but I don't trust his finger-in-the-wind approach.

132 Drphysics, pretty sure it has been fixed. I have a friend who teach hs at ft hood; he has been able to get into Tx schools who transferred in less the a week before finals.

133 I can't believe Ace's music video link to Hayseed Dixie wasn't this song: http://tinyurl.com/3l3ml84

Other than that, I consider the "Texas Dream Act" argument to be one of the dumbest fucking things in the primary race, partly for some of the arguments Ace presents, and the rest simple logic.

All you Amendment 10 people should immediately forget the concept and dump on me now.

134 134 This is probably me over-analyzing a bit, but I almost got the feeling that he didn't think he should have to answer questions like that. There is an underlying arrogance to his demeanor that I don't like. Amen.

135
How do y'all feel about a Potpourri thread?

Just a name change from the boring Open thread, I mean. Too gay?

136 The POS so-called debates are nothing but a chance for the MFM (including Fox) to bash all Republicans with gotcha questions. As bad as Newt is, he recognizes this.

How about instead of posting BS about people all supporters of candidates post why conservative Morons should support their candidate?

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 11:00 AM (M9Ie6)

This to a billion.

The MFM makes us look like a group of ignorant hack-asses with this petty shit. Newt seems to keep the focus on Obama. Cain as well. If Perry and Romney quit fighting over whose dick isn't smaller the debates could basically be 2 hrs of free broadcast time for Republicans to remind voters how fucking awful Barack Obama is as a President and why they can trust new leadership. Reagan annihilated Carter in the final week by using his debate time to remind voters A) Carter sucks B) Your life sucks under Carter C) Here are my ideas D) You can trust me to take on the challenge of the Presidency and set America right again.

 

Why

Arent

We

Fucking

Doing

This?

137
Which begs the question: why is potpourri gay?

Nobody even knows what potpourri is.

138 I wish supporting the 2nd Amendment and knowing SS is a Ponzi scheme were enough. They aren't and he doesn't look like he is going to figure that out. I really don't give a fuck what anyone thinks, if the candidate can't show me he or she can out think and out fight these Democrat motherfuckers, he can't have my vote.

139 How do y'all feel about a Potpourri thread? Dried flowers, spices and perfumes? I dunno, how do you look in Chaps?

140 Perry has been awful and don't think the Dems haven't noticed.They know he's the best bet to beat them.They now again have hope that the SCoaMF can get reelected.

141 So did they ask any questions abouts jobs, monetary policy, housing, war, collaspe of the Euro, oil, judges, etc. or just vaccine and tuition policy.

142 Dried flowers, spices and perfumes? I dunno, how do you look in Chaps?

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 24, 2011 11:09 AM (ZDUD4)

 

Fabulouth! Thankth for athking!

143 They are still illegal aliens.

144 America's future as a superpower is at stake. Let's keep that in mind.

We ceased being a superpower the instant we started tolerating the phony
'international community' and the whims of the fourth estate.

145 let's all remember the big picture....get rid of obama......vote in your primary....suck it up and vote for the gop candidate in the general

146 Potpourri for $400 Alex.

147 how about smorgasbord.......

148 The focus should be on Obama. Debates are great in a primary to flesh out differences, but when they become shoot-em-ups it just takes the focus off the SCoaMF.

Perry's going to have to debate Obama at some point?  Are you confident about how is going to do against him--because I'm not.  I am supporting him right now, because he's better than everybody else, but it's almost a disqualifier in and of itself if he can't beat Romney since Romney has so much baggage from flip flops that, if he can't severely damage him, he's going to have a big problem handling what should be lay-ups against Obama.

A number of the questions he's hurt himself on should be gimmes--that's the really problematic thing.

149

 I also don't give a shit about the spawn they drop in the US.Call me heartless but I'd deny them citizenship and deport them too.

A correct and proper interpretation of the plain language of the 14th Amendment automatically denies American citizenship to any foreign national who gives birth to a child inside America. The lynchpin is the simple inclusion of the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." This means (for the benefit of certain Supreme Court justices) that if the parents of said child aren't American citizens, then said child isn't an American citizen.

It's just that simple. Obviously, it's too simple for the SCOTUS to understand.

150

smorgasbord...yes


The girl from Phoenix gets it.

151

1) My name is (A). I do  (insert stuff he/she does). My ideas for a change in direction are (X Y Z).

2) (A) Again. Obama sucks. He has done C, D, E. Even F.

3) (a) again. Your life sucks. (Reminders using stats of how your life sucks).

4) (a) again. Obama has made your life suck because of C, D, E, F.

5) (A), I can be trusted to be an effective leader becuase I have done (give examples).

This. This this this this. Nothing else. Remind people Obama sucks, remind them their lives suck, and then remind them Obama is causing them their misery. Explain why you can be trusted to lead America on a new course.

Rinse, lather, repeat through the entire primary cycle. No more media soundbytes of Tardisil, Romneycare, Perry's Special School for Illegal Children. Media time should be soley used up to explain how fucking horrible Obama is.

 

In polling, Perry and Romney both improved when their focus was on Obama. Since its shifted to each other, they are now losing to Obama in polling averages. When you shift the focus to OBAMA and his failures, people thing the alternative rocks. When you shift to focus on the alternative's failures, they think Obama sucks but are giving him more of a shot. Don't make that an option for fuck's sake...

152 Yes we ALL (I think) wish RR was running in 2012. But face the music, he isn't.  We wish Perry was a better debater but he isn't. We wish he was MORE conservative but he isn't. Hell both Bachmann and Cain are more conservative. Also-ran Santorum is more conservative as well.  The rest of the candidates aren't even worth mentioning.

But Bachmann has gone off the deep end and poisoned the well while Cain and Santorum can't get any traction.

So tell us why we should support the most liberal candidate in the race? Is it because he is a good used car salesman with slick hair?

153 "The citizens of Texas decided they wanted these kids in college". Bears repeating." And keep repeating. It's a state issue and we Texans decided to do this so we don't have to support these people folks later. Perry just followed the will of the people and conservatives think that is bad?

154 Back to the big picture.  Defeat Ojumbo and repeal his monstrous legislation.

Yes, O-care passed with a filibuster-proof vote of 60-38, with two independents (spit) joining all the dems, and all the Rs voting no.

Can it be repealed with a reconciliation vote of, say, 51-49?  What are the specifics here?

Can we vote down pieces of it, bit by bit, with 51-49 votes, if we cannot take down the whole thing with such a vote?

155 SmorGASbord, Note the key word in the middle, it's usually what you get.

156 SurferDoc, not going rabid right on this issue IS out thinking and out flanking the Dims. They are pinning their hopes on the Federal DREAM Act and a hardline pub stance on immigration driving NM & FL to Obama.

157 Can it be repealed with a reconciliation vote of, say, 51-49?  What are the specifics here?

Legally, no. Reconciliation is legally limited to budget matters supposedly to bring spending/revenues into conformity with a budget resolution.

We screamed about using it to to pass Obamacare when the Dems threatened it and we should scream about using it for repealing Obamacare.

158

The Big Problem is that "Dave from Texas" does a better job defending this than Perry does. Doesn't the guy prep for these debates?  And for those who say "he will get better"... it's too late...the game started.  He should have been preparing long ago. That's what bothers me.  He's running for the most powerful position in the world and he can't present any counter argument coherently?  I was hoping Perry would be the candidate that "we" were waiting for, but he aint ready.

159 Like McLame, it's Mitt's "turn." How'd that work out last time? Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Tea Party SOB at September 24, 2011 10:23 AM

Dunno...how'd Shamnesty work last time?

160 The more it turns out that the attacks against Perry lack substance, the more I ask myself why the hell Perry wasnt able to make that clear. Every bit of horsecrap Mittens and Santorum were talking could have been thrown back into there smugly grinning faces, since they were obviously lying or didnt know what they were talking about. Perrys refusal to defend hiself against such crap reminds me of Bush.

161 32 #16 Because VT the Federal government has not secured the borders and these kids are here. They are here. They were born in Texas, raised in Texas, and are interacting with the citizens of Texas in their communities.
____________

If they were born in Texas, they're not illegals. Heck, they could grow up to be President!

162

Fox has gone full retard publishing AP Dem propaganda

Several states adopted new laws last year requiring that people show a photo ID when they come to vote even though the kind of election fraud that the laws are intended to stamp out is rare. 

Even supporters of the new laws are hard pressed to come up with large numbers of cases in which someone tried to vote under a false identify.

Could that be because once registered it is virtually impossible to catch these felons, especially when urban area Dem party machines are behind the fraud and control the police as well?

 

If it is so damn rare why do the Dems fight these laws tooth and nail?

163 166, Perry clearly does not practice before these debates. Romney on the other hand practices to a fault. I bet his smarmy little "Nice Try" answer was not only poll tested, but I bet he listened to himself say it so he could get a cadence that didn't come off as smartassed but instead comes of as a superior exasperated by someone he sees as inferior.

164 Darn the sock

165 Illegals pay taxes in Texas through sales tax and through rent (which has property tax calculated in it) which is better than other states relying on income tax which they commonly avoid by getting paid with cash.

166 162 Jean I hope you are right but I doubt it.

167 "We're arguing over side issues like in-state tuition and abortion and gun control." The problem is that people have critically important *to them* litmus tests which in some cases is enough to disqualify a candidate. Because we each prioritize differently and because we each carry a unique estimation of what is within the realm of political possibility, there are candidates who will be non-starters in some people's books. Up until yesterday's talk about Christie, I've been silent because none of the viable candidates in the field gored my ox. Christie gores my ox. I'm perfectly all right with a GOP candidate who is tepid or even mostly neutral on gun rights, but a GOP candidate with a record as an active gun-grabber is not acceptable to me as POTUS. The reasons are: 1. Only Nixon could go to China. Gun control is off the table for democrats, but a GOP president with a desire to grab guns could get an effort rolling in exchange for some worthy goal like spending control because any politician's deepest well of political capital is selling out his base. Obama cannot make bold moves to disarm people because the average GOP establishment type would reflexively resist on just a partisan, team-sport basis. But should a GOP POTUS try it, the 2A wing could easily be marginalized as single-issue extremists by the establishment. 2. There is a not insignificant chance that things could go to shit. I'm not talking about Mad Max world. I'm talking about the caricature of NYC in Death Wish. 3. I will not be disarmed. The courts have established that the police have no duty to protect me unless I am in their custody. This is an absolute for me. I fully recognize that there is a good chance that I am reading things wrong, but where my confidence is weak in my argument, the known consequences demonstrated repeatedly throughout the 20th century demand that I err on the side of caution.

168

If it is so damn rare why do the Dems fight these laws tooth and nail?

Posted by: Vic at September 24, 2011 11:30 AM (M9Ie6)

Probably the same reason why they oppose dividing the electoral votes of Michigan and Pennsylvania.

PA would be a draw, but in Michigan there would rarely be a Democratic winner of its EV's again. Detroit, Flint, and 2 Detroit suburban districts. 4 electoral votes out of the whole fucking state. Even if they carried the state through ridiculous fraud in the Motor City, they would lose 10 of its 16 electoral votes.

A wet dream for us, a nightmare for them.

169 Wonder how Mitt would have handled college for illegals if he had been governor of a border state?

170 176, Great Question, maybe you should take Chris Wallaces seat.

171

Late to the post, but remember the main point--this is a zero sum game. Every slot taken by a non-citizen is a slot taken away from a citizen.  State citizens are being turned away so foreign nationals can take their place. And to add insult to injury, the citizens are asked to pay for it.

Same problem when you take your child to the over-crowded school or emergency room; the citizen's child waits behind foreign nationals who are being subsidized by the citizen. It makes absolutely no sense. 

172 If you need a DOOM fix,since Monty doesn't do a weekend version,go read Steyn's latest at NRO.

173 So we are subsidizing the education of those who are here illegally, rewarding them for breaking the law. And we're heartless if we don't want to subsidize illegal activity. Ummmm --

174 Hayseed Dixie's version of Strawberry Fields Forever is even better.

175 if you are here illegally, then the only subsidy you should get is a free trip to the homeland. if you want anything else from the state, you get to pay full price just like the rest of us poor working slobs. Life isn't fair if you have to subsidize someone being here illegally. Life isn't fair if you catch a disease that was eliminated here, but brought back in by illegals that were never immunized. Life isn't fair if you get caught and get deported, I had that happen to a friend, $1200 for a lawyer didn't help, he still got a free ride home. Oh yeah, that is fair, it's even written down as a law somewhere. Life is full of a lot of unfairness, it doesn't make breaking the law right.

176 Additionally - I did research yesterday and found out that Active Duty Military, stationed in Texas, and their dependents - have in-state tuition immediately.

177 I want people in other countries to think "I shouldn't come to America illegally, it'll ruin my kids' lives." Then nominate Romney. Guaranteed second term for Obama.

178 My only question on this is is this what the people of Texas want or is it just the Texas government voting it into law to pander for Hispanic votes?

179

Is there any evidence at all anywhere that Perry is at all conservative regarding illegal immigration? Anything to mitigate the very clear evidence that is is pro-illegal immigration from Mexico?

Posted by: HeartlessBlackOrchid at September 24, 2011 10:27 AM (SB0V2)

Well I think he's mentioned putting more of the state employees along the border to help with enforcement.  And despite what some want to claim he is not opposed to the Arizona law.  That claim of opposition was that he had said he didn't think that the law would work in Texas.  And if he was telling the truth at the debate he has joined in the lawsuit to stop the federal government from going after Arizona for their law.

180

Here's a stupid parody of Bohemian Rhapsody called Mohamedan Rhapsody

I see a little infidel of a man ... Hamdu 'lah, Hamdu 'lah will you do a conversion

Violence and terror; makes me see my error

Ayatollah, Ayatollah, Ayatollah Khomeini ... Quran Kareem!!

I'm just a dhimmi, from a degraded family

(He's just a dhimmi, from a degraded family spare him his life from this Shariah decree)

Azizi come, Azizi go, will you let me go

Bismillah, no we will not let you go; Bismillah, no we will not let you go Bismillah no we will not let you go; no, no, no, no, no.

Mohamed Mia, Mohamed mia, Mohamed Mia let me go

Shaytan Bazorg* has the fire put aside for me, for me, for MEE!

*Great Satan 

181 Dried flowers, spices and perfumes? Why oh why did Patou DC 1000? Wait... this isn't Basenotes? Never mind.

182 The fact that Perry's opponents keep resorting to lying - and lying about the same three or four things - is why I just can't take them seriously.  That and the fact that most of these issues really only have to do with the unique functions of a governor at a state level and in no way suggest that Perry would impose them on the nation. 

I do think Perry needs to state very clearly that he will be trimming back federal agencies like the Dept of Ed (as well as the EPA, Dept of Energy, Dept of Interior, etc).  He'll need to couch it in careful language so as to not panic people (and appear sensitive about the folks who will need to find new jobs), but he should just go ahead and say it because we all know it's true and it's something Romney will never ever do. 

183 My only question on this is is this what the people of Texas want or is it just the Texas government voting it into law to pander for Hispanic votes? From what I've heard, Texans overwhelmingly support this law and resent northeners who don't live along an unenforced 1200 mile border sticking their noses in their business. It creates an incentive for children who were dragged here by their parents to make good and give back instead of becoming a drain on society.

184

169 166, Perry clearly does not practice before these debates.

Okay I stand corrected.

Perry isnt Bush 3.0, he is teh Fred 2.0

185 155: The lynchpin is the simple inclusion of the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." This means (for the benefit of certain Supreme Court justices) that if the parents of said child aren't American citizens, then said child isn't an American citizen. The thing is, even illegals ARE subject to the laws ("jurisdiction") of the U.S. Otherwise, they could - for example - commit murder with impunity. After all, if they're not subject to our jurisdiction, by what right do we try them? If we want to end anchor babies, we need to change the law. Not twist it like a pretzel.

186

Mr.  Romney are you capable of answering a yes or no question with yes or no?

"Well let me tell you about that....."

187 I am a Perry girl and I don't give a damn if other U.S. citizens receive in-state tuition or not. How can a parallel be drawn between what we do for citizens and what we do for non-citizens?

As my granny would have said: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

I do not like his policy on this. I can get past it, but I don't like it.

Providing a basic education....high school....is one thing. Providing a college education is another. Why are they entitled to a damn thing?

188 190. Works for me then I believe in the 10th amendment Go figure though, it's the democrat who is for supporting the will of the people

189

#109 - Redstate should rename itself  Perry2012 for truth in advertising.

#123 - agree the focus should be back on O, not intra-GOP.  Then again O is doing a pretty good job of shooting himself down.

On the immigration - interesting that the Perry supporters say it is a state issue and was passed by the TX legislature so it is ok but then turn around and rip Romney for the MA Health Care which was a state issue and passed by the MA legislature.  Similary, they argue that Perry wouldn't enact the same thing at the national level so he's ok but then dismiss those who point out that Romney has said repeatedly that he wouldn't enact the MA Health Care at the national level.

190 189 I agree alot of the attacks are disingenuous.So why is he doing such a lousy job defending himself?I was told before he got in that he was a tough customer and good debater.I haven't seen it.3 debates now and I haven't seen it.

191 Perry needs to explain the circumstances of the TX law in a series of interviews, a speech, or at the next debate. One thing to keep in mind is that many of these kids think of themselves of Americans because they've been raised here, and want to be part of America. But their parents f*cked it up for them. So while it's at odds with the law, generally we don't punish children for their parents' mistakes. So Perry got a little weak-kneeed and allowed them to pay in-state tuition...as Biden would say, BFD. Reagan did amnesty, Dubya tried to do a partial amnesty....you guys are fooling yourselves to think McLame or Mittens wouldn't do the same if not worse.

192 I'm starting to think Susana Martinez would be a good running mate for Perry. Her grandparents came to the US illegally, and now she's a Republican rock star and potential future presidential candidate. Her father won three straight Golden Gloves titles in the 50's and was a deputy sheriff in El Paso. She is tough as nails, a former DA who can debate, and as a woman, Perry gets more leniency from independents on the capital punishment issue. The ticket becomes less Southern and more Western.

193

On the immigration - interesting that the Perry supporters say it is a state issue and was passed by the TX legislature so it is ok but then turn around and rip Romney for the MA Health Care which was a state issue and passed by the MA legislature.  Similary, they argue that Perry wouldn't enact the same thing at the national level so he's ok but then dismiss those who point out that Romney has said repeatedly that he wouldn't enact the MA Health Care at the national level.

Posted by: notfeelinggoodabout12 at September 24, 2011 12:04 PM (GkYyh)

Well because the in state tuition stuff isn't really a case of the government sticking its nose into more of our business than it has any right to.  And Romney doesn't have to enact it at the national level.  Obama already did that.

194 Reagan was mislead into it,GW was an ass on this issue,McClame was definately pro amnesty,oner of the reasons I couldn't stand him.Romney probably is too but if Perry agrees with him on the issue what's in it for me?I want a consefvative.

195 Perry needs to explain the circumstances of the TX law in a series of interviews, a speech, or at the next debate. He did a great job on Hannity from what I heard.

196 Romney probably is too Who really knows with Romney? He has liberal big government instincts, he's just a bold-faced liar.

197 Oh, off, Shat sock! BTW, if shat is the past tense of "to shit," does that mean Shatner Shit Himself?

198 195 There is no perfect party.

199

#189 - "stop lying about my record" is Bob Dole type response.  The candidates are taking Perry's written and verbal statements and creating arguments against him, just as Perry is trying to do to them. If they were completely making it up they would get criticized (like Bachman on the retarded thing) - the fact that they are gaining traction means people think there is an element of truth in there.

 It is interesting that pointing out issues with Perry's record is considered RINO territory and unseemly but pointing out issues against other candidates is perfectly fine.  As #197 says if he defended himself better the attacks would stop

200 notfeelinggoodabout12 at September 24, 2011 12:04 Well said and I think the majority of us is figuring it out. If you go back 4-5 months we can see a pattern of blog debates concearning the POTUS primaries. We love this person, no wait this person said this. We love that person, no wait, that person said that and on and on. Jump ahead 4-5 months and I don't see Romney or Perry being in the Top 2. I look for the acension of Cain, Gingrich and maybe someone who has yet to declare. Yes I know, Gingrich is scummy. But damn is he smart. And he would butcher Obama in the debate unlike any of the others.

201 202 That's fine,but he needs to do it in the debates.

202 On the immigration - interesting that the Perry supporters say it is a state issue and was passed by the TX legislature so it is ok but then turn around and rip Romney for the MA Health Care which was a state issue and passed by the MA legislature. 
-------
Well, there is one major difference.  Masscare has been a disaster for that state; the Texas tuition rules have not hurt Texas. 

I have consistently given Romney a pass on the fact that Masscare passed (and he didn't even make a show of vetoing it).  In fact, I never call it Romneycare because it really isn't accurate to imply it was the same type of brainchild as Obamacare was for the current horrible POTUS. 

My objection - and why he went from being the candidate that I kept supporting much of the summer to down to number three on my list now - is what Romney has done and failed to do vis a vis healthcare issues.  He has not disavowed Masscare.  He clings to the notion that it is not a disaster for MA when everything I've seen suggests it is a disaster.  He has no other job right now but to show us that he would use his supposed expertise on this issue and alleged intelligence to make the case that the things he supposedly objected to in Masscare are what led to it be a disaster.  He could have started a think tank and worked on health care issues for the past several years.  He could have started a private foundation that seeded free market efforts to bring down health care costs and/or to increase access.  He could have been a consultant or a fellow at some organization and done the same. 

He's done none of that.  Plus, he has said he is for Repeal and Replace but he has not told us what Replace means.  I checked again last week and his website on this issue is still a couple of meaningless paragraphs with the promise of a plan to come.  Screw that. 
-------
Similary, they argue that Perry wouldn't enact the same thing at the national level so he's ok but then dismiss those who point out that Romney has said repeatedly that he wouldn't enact the MA Health Care at the national level.
-------
He has said Repeal and Replace, but he has not told us what Replace would entail. Nor has he developed the sort of gory detail dissection of Masscare's failures that would be useful for the conservatives in Congress to use to fight Obamacare, both in the legislature and in the court of public opinion. 

He'd probably sign a bill overturning, but he's now showing me that he'd help make that happen. 

And that - health care - is supposed to be one of his big competencies.  I remember it being touted last time how Mitt would know how to solve the crisis.  I see no evidence of that. 

203 193 hahaha

204 #200 yes Obamacare has been enacted.  The point I was making is that Romney has said he would repeal Obamacare.  Commenters here have said that he won't because he wants to enact Romneycare nationally despite all his statement otherwise - which is in contrast to them accepting without question Perry's comments that he won't do the immigation issue nationally.

205 206:  It is interesting that pointing out issues with Perry's record is considered RINO territory and unseemly but pointing out issues against other candidates is perfectly fine.  As #197 says if he defended himself better the attacks would stop True. There ARE perfectly good points he could make to defend himself, but it's almost like Perry can't be bothered to sit down, think of some, and practice them before a debate. It's maddening.

206 One for the sidebar;

Sky Sources: G20 ministers are preparing for Greek default

207 Commenters here have said that he won't because he wants to enact Romneycare nationally despite all his statement otherwise - which is in contrast to them accepting without question Perry's comments that he won't do the immigation issue nationally.

What does a fee structure for Texas universities have to do with immigration?  And how, exactly, would the POTUS force other states to enact as similar thing? 

208 Where is Romney's primary residence right now, btw?  Does anyone know? 

209 What does a fee structure for Texas universities have to do with immigration? And how, exactly, would the POTUS force other states to enact as similar thing? Hi Y! It's because he does not understand the definition of the word illegal. If he doesn't understand it for his own state, is he going to go to the west wing and gain a new understanding? I think not.

210 It is interesting that pointing out issues with Perry's record is considered RINO territory and unseemly but pointing out issues against other candidates is perfectly fine. The candidates should stick to attacking Perry's actual record instead of throwing out easy applause lines. Santorum was busted for supporting an immigration policy exactly like Perry's in Texas. Read the article by Kevin Williamson in NRO. Same with Romney. We've seen that Perry can take a punch, but we haven't seen much else from this bunch of also-rans.

211 202 Perry needs to explain the circumstances of the TX law in a series of interviews, a speech, or at the next debate. He did a great job on Hannity from what I heard. Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 24, 2011 12:07 PM (lNGfM) Even Palin does a great job on Hannity. What about Couric?? I'm a Perry guy, so that is why I so desperately want to see him Up His Game.

212 I'm a Perry guy, so that is why I so desperately want to see him Up His Game. You are seeing his game CC. If he had more, we would have seen already.

213 One for the sidebar or the ONT;

10 Star Trek Episodes WeÂ’re Glad They Never Filmed

214 Her mothers a whore. Her daughters a tramp. She delivered her daughters out-of-wedlock child. You know, I defended Sarah Palin for many years, and no one can deny she got a raw deal from the media. But I also just watched her fat daughter climb up on a mechanical bull with her reality TV camera crew and get cursed out by a drunk gay townie in L.A. Bristol and Sarah chose to enter the public spotlight and sign deals with US Weekly, People and Discovery. That should not deter other women from seeking higher office but instead from becoming a reality TV star.

215

How the MSM misleads, from Byron York:

Herman Cain surging in Florida straw poll.

ORLANDO -- There's no scientific polling, but talks with dozens of delegates who will vote in today's Florida straw poll suggest that many are making last-minute decisions to vote for Herman Cain.

216 @217
I've seen versions of that argument, but it just doesn't rate for me.  Texas could decide to charge Icelanders in-state tuition.  It doesn't mean anything other than that they decided that there is some benefit to their state to charge that lower rate. 

It's as if none of the things Perry has said or done vis a vis the Feds' responsibility to enforce the border matter.  All that matters is this one highly specialized issue that in my opinion is purely a matter of how Texans chose to allocate their resources.  Resources they have, incidentally, in part because of the work Perry has done. 

217 211 #200 yes Obamacare has been enacted.  The point I was making is that Romney has said he would repeal Obamacare.  Commenters here have said that he won't because he wants to enact Romneycare nationally despite all his statement otherwise - which is in contrast to them accepting without question Perry's comments that he won't do the immigation issue nationally.

Posted by: notfeelinggoodabout12 at September 24, 2011 12:16 PM (GkYyh)

Because no politician ever breaks a campaign promise.  He barely ever mentions Repeal.  I think I've only heard him say it once.  What he does like to say is how "I'll issue a waiver to everyone."  And I find that claim to be shady because I see it as step one to being now that we have time we can modify Obamacare to actually make it "work."  Because Romney strikes me as the type of guy that will be "what can the government do?" instead of "How can we get government out of your way"

And if you want to look at health care vs immigration and what Perry and Romney have done in them.  Well Romney has already passed a government run healthcare bill, so why is it so shocking to think he might do it again nationally if he thinks it will "work."  And as for Perry, well he's, uh, passed a bill that let's illegals living in Texas get instate tuition rates, and I don't even think there is something he could do at the national level that is equivalent to that.

218 220 I'm a Perry guy, so that is why I so desperately want to see him Up His Game. You are seeing his game CC. If he had more, we would have seen already. Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 24, 2011 12:26 PM (ZDUD4) Well, you may be right about that... which I would find disheartening. Because it's like saying, We're up shits creek without a paddle.

219 Many Republicans berated Janet Reno for sending in agents to extract Elian Gonzales at gunpoint, and sending him back to Cuba after his mother died trying to get him to American shores. Republican congressmen tried to pass a law to grant him permanent residency status...any of ya'll remember this? For all of you who want the law against illegals enforced, are you willing to go down the road of storm troopers entering a family home and forcibly extracting them? Are any of you going to rethink your position on Elian Gonzales? Or are we going to be cynical and point out we needed the votes of the Cuban community in Florida in the Gore v Bush election? If we needed their votes then, why not just be as cynical and ask for the Hispanic votes against Obama now?

220 Even Palin does a great job on Hannity. What about Couric?? I agree Perry needs to bring his A-game, and I'm worried about rumors about back pain and his not having the fire in belly to win. But that means I go back to Huntsman, and I really don't want to do that.

221 How would Romney's promise to "issue a waiver on Obamacare to all the states" actually, you know, WORK? Massachusetts, Connecticut, California, New York... NONE of those states would want a waiver. So where would that leave the huge federal spending, the death panels, the personal mandates in all those states?? What happens the next a Democrat is elected and rescinds the waivers??? Romney's Obamacare solution is like so much else about him: glib & slick... and not much more.

222 Dear Dave,

What don't you understand about the word illegal.

Best,
Barbarian

223 226, I think we would be more up the creek if we don't score some Senators in this next election.

224 I agree that if Perry loses support to Cain, this is not a bad thing.  There really is a need for him to focus on these issues and put them to bed.  And I still think that one way to do that is to be very clear about how he would trim the size and scope of federal agencies. 

He should continue to run as a pro-growth fiscal conservative who believes strongly in federalism.  It's true and it is what people need to hear, especially "moderates" who might be uncomfortable with some of his positions.  He needs to give them an out that reassures them that the main impact of  a Perry presidency on their lives, whether they be living in New Jersey or Wisconsin or wherever, is that the federal government will be less involved in their lives, their job prospects will improve, and their taxes won't be raised.

225 During his bachelor days, Mitt Romney got to the "on deck circle" with 5 different girls. Posted by: Downscaled Upscale at September 24, 2011 12:30 PM (IhHdM) OK, I find that very intriguing but I'm only guessing at what exciting thing that can be... can you draw me a more explicit picture???

226 Or are we going to be cynical and point out we needed the votes of the Cuban community in Florida in the Gore v Bush election? If we needed their votes then, why not just be as cynical and ask for the Hispanic votes against Obama now?

Yeah, that's a great idea.

227 Is there any evidence at all anywhere that Perry is at all conservative regarding illegal immigration? Anything to mitigate the very clear evidence that is is pro-illegal immigration from Mexico?

Posted by: HeartlessBlackOrchid at September 24, 2011 10:27 AM (SB0V2)

Said with the utmost respect, Google is your friend.  Check out his stance on sanctuary cities and lots, and lots of other stuff.  A softie on illegal immigration he ain't.

228

@ Dave in Texas

What is this thing I've heard about that Perry has done to make Texas colleges more accountable to the parents?  ....And for their salried positions?

Back when Perry's college transcript was leaked and posted on Huffpo.....I read a little blurb on Fox's site that it probably was leaked by a disgruntled college employee.....disgruntled because of this new reform that Perry has done.

Something about a new program/reform that Perry had initiated which makes college professors accountable for how expensive they are for the colleges they teach at? ....And tying bonuses & tenure for those professors to Student polls which the students can 'grade' their professors anonymously for their teaching performance?

Do you know anything about this? 

Sounds cool.

229 225 Well stated, and Perry actually sounds like an expert on border security. He needs to talk more about his record on border security and emphasize rule of law over feelings.

230 ....*salaried positions

231 What happens the next a Democrat is elected and rescinds the waivers???

He will not have to. IIANM those waivers automatically expire after a certain period of time. Only the waivers that are written into the bill itself will remain and those are for "unions". remember, those were one of the "fixs" that was passed with reconciliation.

Also, there is nothing in the bill that allows the executive department to issue waivers in the first place. I remember that being brought up by one congressman but the MFM has ignored it.

232 One of the smart folks here pointed out yesterday the irony of Perry critics demanding that he erect a fence given all the criticism he received over eminent domain issues. 

That's why I love reading the comments here.  You folks bring the smarts. 

233 How are you feeling, Vic?

Do you have to have a special diet or anything?  Anyway, I hope you are on the mend. 

234 I've said before that I really don't care about illegal Mexicans (yeah, I said Mexicans) as a campaign issue. And I think the state of Texas is certainly reasonable with its approach to this in-state tuition issue. Where my problem lies, at this point, is Perry's inability to keep this from becoming such a hot topic for his Presidential campaign. That's where he is failing, and that's why it's so discouraging to me, because Romney will be the nominee unless he can get better at not letting stupid things like this sink his campaign.

235

241....Uh, I think that was me.

I have a vague memory of posting something like that. ....Hope I was able to make sense.

236 Do you have to have a special diet or anything?

No, the surgeon said I could eat anything I wanted within reason. I have interpreted that too mean don't pig out.

237 @244
Well it was a great point.  I'm sure Andrew Breitbart was impressed!  :-)

238

This completely ignores that a Mexican National, or other, who are not in the Country legally, can not LEGALLY do any of those things in the state of Texas.

Since any American citzen can move to Texas and do those things completely within the law...  and an illegal alien cannot--because they are breaking the law by being in the US,  it show perferiential treatment to law breakers over law abiding citizens.

We are a country of laws.  Or we should be. That is the foundation that makes our country attractive in the first place.

It is not breaking a "rule" to be here illegally.  It is breaking a law.

 

 

 

239 @245
Thank goodness for that.  It's bad enough having a major medical problem without having to layer on a crappy (bland or what have you) diet on top of that. 

240 As for Perry, none of this matters.  He will blow away like the fall leaves on my driveway.

James Taranto has it right in his column in the WSJ about Perry, and his matchup with Romney in last week's debate.  It was like Donny Osmond dominating John Wayne.

He goes on to say that if Perry cannot step up his game, he won't be able to take on Obama.  He then says that Perry may never get the chance to take on Obama, and I think he is right.

241 I have no problem with eminent domain being used for a truly important construction projecty.I object to the use of it in situations like Kelo,for commercial purposes.

242

246 ...Thanks, Y-not.

Eh, isn't Breitbart in the tank for Palin? ....I have stopped going to his site because he never seems to post anything positive about the candidates...just stuff about non-candidate Palin.

 

243 Where my problem lies, at this point, is Perry's inability to keep this from becoming such a hot topic for his Presidential campaign. That's where he is failing, and that's why it's so discouraging to me, because Romney will be the nominee unless he can get better at not letting stupid things like this sink his campaign.

it is not a case of "let". It is the stupid "debate" format and half of the other candidates acting like Democrat assholes bashing him on it and falsifying his position and the TX act itself.

He can not control the "gotcha" questions or the comments from the candidates who don't have a prayer of winning. 

244 Thank you, Dave! Would that Rick Perry had the wherewithal and time to explain it all during the debates.

245 Federal law. 

The whole issue right now, which I saw very clearly in CA, is that even if local law enforcement is inclined to enforce the laws (or check on immigration status), they aren't allowed to.  All Texas is doing (and I am not saying I would agree with it if I were a Texan; we are doing a similar thing now here in Utah and I hate it) is trying to make the best of a bad situation.  A situation created by Obama. 

246 It's bad enough having a major medical problem without having to layer on a crappy (bland or what have you) diet on top of that.

Yeah, lets hope I will still have an appetite after I start chemo.

247 Eh, isn't Breitbart in the tank for Palin?

I honestly don't know.  I only pop into his sites occasionally. I'm not a fan of the format. 

248 It was like Donny Osmond dominating John Wayne. It seems that like Mama Tardasil you've confused John Wayne and John Wayne Gayce.

249 254 Bush didn't enforce the laws either.Clinton didn't either.When was the last president who stood up to Mexican bullying??

250 Sorry, I read your comment wrong. I think my mind was just unwilling to accept that image.

251 You may be right, Vic, regarding the debate format, but it's not like Perry had to throw out the "no heart" line. That's the type of thing that turns off voters. And I still don't understand why a politician can't just say to the idiots running these debates "that's a dumb question, and I'm not going to play your silly game," or words to that effect. Anyone who can do that (Christie, for example), gets tons of credit for it.

252 Anyone who can do that (Christie, for example), gets tons of credit for it.

Yeah, Newt did that to Chris Wallace and my opinion of him immediately went up. Still wouldn't vote for him though.

253 "What About The Children..?" RINO Rick Perry revealed his treasonous colors in last nights debate when he said that those who refused his DREAM Act hispandering did not "have a heart." What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to African American parents? What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to white parents? What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to American parents? Who is heartbroken about a kid from Oklahoma having to pay out of state tuition to go to school in Texas? Why are our elites ONLY worried about the children of illiterates who illegally come to America to take advantage of free benefits? Is Rick Perry and the Mexican government racist against native born American children? http://elvisnixon.com/2011/09/24/what-about-the-children.aspx

254

259....When was the last president who stood up to Mexican bullying??

Uh...Teddy Roosevelt, I think.

And you're right, Steevy. ....We haven't had a president in a long time who stood up to the migratory invasion from the south.

I think Perry would though.

255 Vic, one word, WEED. My good friend battled and lost to Pancratic cancer. However, he lasted a lot longer than his doctor imagined because he was able to eat and maintain his appetite.

256 @259
My impression is that this administration has been much more heavy-handed about proactively telling agencies to not enforce the law.  Aren't the feds suing Arizona over this sort of thing?

For me although illegal immigration is a big thing - and clearly tied to our economic and security woes - my highest priority is to trim back the federal government.  At least start to trim the damned thing.  Reduce regulations, reduce the size of the government, and leave the states alone as much as possible.  That's my first priority and I really believe that is Perry's, too. 

I also want a candidate to go up against Obama who is not afraid to call him out for his socialist-loving ways.  Romney won't do that. 

Perry is still getting warmed up.  He started strong with his "making the federal government inconsequential" line.  He needs to return to that. 

257 I knew the last debate was going to be a POS when supposed fair and balanced Bret told Perry after he outlined what TX did to get job growth "Romney has his 59 point jobs plan what are the your plans. Your outline is vague".

I would have fired back, "then ask your candidate to give the details in his 59 point plan and explain it in 30 seconds you douche".

258 The issue isn't "hey, get residency, pay in-state". That's not what is being said. What the infuriating problem is that a criminal, illegally in Texas, working with forged or stolen documents is treated better than a guy from North Dakota. THAT'S what the problem is - and THAT is how illegal aliens are being treated better than American citizens. The illegals don't have the right to even mail a fucking letter in a post office - they certainly do not deserve any benefit or service from any part of the State - other than deportation after arrest.

259 267 No doubt,Obama is worse at everything.He is a SCoaMF after all.

260 Inspector Asshole at September 24, 2011 12:55 PM Yeah, I agree. I'm glad it's inspector Asshole and not Asshole inspector.

261 For clarity, because I am sure you will misunderstand without it - "better than a guy from North Dakota who travels in his freshman year to Texas to attend school as an out-of-state student". The thing isn't "Hey residency". It is "residency is not for any goddamned invading alien foreign national who is by definition a scofflaw".

262 269 Amen.

263

Maybe I'm not reading the law correctly, but they're still illegal, right?  Strictly speaking, or maybe it's more accurate to say legally speaking, they're not really residents at all, regardless of how many years they've lived here, if they are here illegally.  I don't blame the kids at all - hell, to many of them America is the only country they know, but you can't logically be called a resident if your not legal in the first place. That's like saying that everyone who flies into LaGuardia, JFK or LAX should be counted on the census if they happent to visit the US on years where the last digit is 0.  If you allow the children of illegals in-state tuition, then fairness dictates that all the children of all US residents be allowed in-state tuition - regardless of how long they been sucking off the teat of Texas taxpayers.

   

264 11 @9 OMG, I saw her! She has had something major done to her face. Facelift maybe? That, along with her very heavy makeup and false eyelashes so long that I thought they were going to fold over on themselves & stab her in the eye. It was baaaad. Looked more like Stage III Liver cancer

265 @267
He hates this country.  Or, at the very least, he's ashamed of this country. He wants us to emulate Europe. 

Which is funny, actually, because yesterday I was pulling Romney quotes on environmental issues and he made a point of chastising us (US) for using 2-3 times more energy than Europeans and the Japanese. 

I cannot imagine Perry ever saying something like that.  There is no doubt in my mind about which of those three dudes is most fiercely loyal to the US and our way of life. 

266 And just to be clear, I'm not a fan of Christie as a candidate, but you have to admire the way he handles the press and his critics. Yeah, Newt has always been good at it too. He was great when he was on the talk shows back in the day, and will always get credit for being the guy who ended over half a century of Dem rule in the House, but when it came to doing his job as Speaker? No.

267 If you allow the children of illegals in-state tuition, then fairness dictates that all the children of all US residents be allowed in-state tuition - regardless of how long they been sucking off the teat of Texas taxpayers.

Read the law, it treats everyone the same. Both out of state and out of country.

268 For all his weaknesses as a debater, and they are many, I still think Perry is the best choice. The reason is that I can trust him. His stance on in state tuition for children of illegal immigrants is unpopular. But at least he didnÂ’t take the easy way out and change his position. They have a YouTube video on Redstate now showing Romney during the 2002 gubernatorial election in MA when he was defending the right to have an abortion, even for girls under 18 without parental consent. You can also search for it on YouTube under "Romney on Abortion - 2002". It doesn't surprise me. Listening to Romney trying to deny that he didnÂ’t change a part of his book between the hardcover and paperback editions didnÂ’t surprise me. The debates arenÂ’t just about performance. They also help reveal the character of the candidates. On this point Romney did not do well. Lord forgive me, but I cannot vote for Romney. He's a weasel. I'll vote for Obama first.

269 274 Well,they gave my mom liquid TLC and it didn't really improve her appetite.If smking it is different,I don't know.

270 Well it is time for a new non-Perry thread. We are rehashing all the same tired arguments.

271 @282
Football!

Take care, folks. 

272 Which is funny, actually, because yesterday I was pulling Romney quotes on environmental issues and he made a point of chastising us (US) for using 2-3 times more energy than Europeans and the Japanese. - Y-not I always hated that kind of talk. Like the USA - blessed with more energy resources than any other place on Earth - has to limit itself to the life of an old, spent continent or some small overcrowded island. THAT is the kind of talk you expect from Liberals.

273 My important issue, and I guess I am alone in this, is that the next president will probably get to nominate two Supreme court judges.  I don't think we can trust Congress to veto any nominations, and I don't want liberal or gun grabbing judges. Romney or Christie would be more liberal, IMO, than Perry.

274 281, It is, the liquid is bullshit. I'm not a Doctor, I can't tell you why it is different but it is. That shit didn't work for my friend. Hydroponic shit from musicians works. Musicians seem to have the best weed. So I hear.

275 The problem for many folks living in state's with income taxes is they just don't get it how things in States like Texas are funded in large part by sales taxes that EVERYONE living there pays. 

There's also the reality (ignored or untold to many) that if there were a decent worker visa program that virtually all of the so-called illegals would be legal -- and still paying taxes that they are already paying.  But oh no, we can't have a decent worker visa program because that might cause problems for unions...  And take away jobs from Americans that Americans won't do...  Or something like that...  

If we are to be a nation driven by markets, we need to wake up and promote a process where markets are open, yes, even open to those outside the country...  In a global economy, if you don't operate open markets, including job markets, the jobs and economic prosperity will go elsewhere.  

Yes, this also means there will be competition for jobs of skills that can be easily learned.   Oh well,...  If you got the talent and desire, get off your pity pot and learn some specialized skill set that is in demand that isn't so easy for other's to pick up.  Otherwise, or either way, prepare to compete...

276 Perry is still getting warmed up. He started strong with his "making the federal government inconsequential" line. He needs to return to that. Posted by: Y-not at September 24, 2011 12:53 PM (5H6zj) AMEN.

277 Hi, kids!!  I guess this is the open thread for those of us who don't give a shit about college football?  Just reading some of the comments, you guys are en fuego this morning, good stuff.

278 I had heard that smoking weed to improve appetite when getting chemo is a myth.

It appears it works in some cases but not in others. My grandmother tried it and it didn't work for her.

What I would be scared of in trying it would be that it may make me want to take up smoking again. I would hate that.

279 Hiya Peach, Every time I see your name I think of the Starfish in Finding Nemo.

280

277.....He hates this country. Or, at the very least, he's ashamed of this country.

I'm going with the first one, Y-not. .....He hates this country. ...His mama hated this country. His commie Uncle Frank Davis Marshall hated this country. The SCoaMF was raised on hatred for this country.

This is why he has no shame whatsoever about being a predator on this country, and seeks to destroy it. 

281 290 Well my brother, you do what's right for you. Carry with that our love and support.

282 Thanks

283 29 Perry doesn't want a fence. Perry thinks we should rollover like he has for the lax enforcement policies of the US Govt. Perry thinks a break on tuition at public expense is a good thing. Perry thinks it is all no big deal. Fuck him. Who will pay for the fence? Will Perry have to pass a "Fence Stimulus Bill" to get hardworking Americans to build a fence to keep them Mexicans out? Perry was slammed for his TTC plan. Building a fence on 1200 miles of border along desolate stretches of desert and sometimes heavily populated areas would take 50 years and 1/2 trillion dollars. On average you would have to build 24 miles a year for 50 years. Each mile of secure fencing would probably cost 10 Million. Like I said - who can pay for that when America already borrows 40 cents on every dollar it spends? Just drop in rattle snakes, rat poison and some landmines to make it interesting.

284 Vic, the point is that illegals have no rights under the Constitution. They have no right to walk down any street in the nation. They are foreign nationals who have violated the sovereignty of the US. They cannot and must not be treated as citizens. They can not have residency because their presence is illegal. Hell, under the rules and customs of war, we'd be justified in prosecuting each and every one under the Espionage Act. Especially since Mexico is in violation of the treaty ending the 1848 war. Technically, because of that- by international law, we're in a state of War with them.

285 What I would be scared of in trying it would be that it may make me want to take up smoking again. I would hate that.
---
Umm... how do I say this?  Just avoid joints.  Go for a bong.  It's a very different experience in terms of your ability to inhale deeply.  I bet the grandma who had no luck was not breathing it in deeply enough (especially if she was using a joint). 

Look, I would not encourage heavy use for a healthy person (or actually any use, because I think it's easy to abuse marijuana and it is illegal), but I fully support medical marijuana being available.  So, if you can get it legally, I'd try it. 

Also, let us know if you do have appetite issues.  Maybe we can think of recipes that appeal.

286 Good Morning ! I think most people just have no idea what kind of benefits illegals receive in the USA and how Federal and State agencies are organized to avoid asking or in fact enable them to be here. I WISH for a sting op... take a hispanic American, take him to McAllen or El Paso, to a democrat office or city hall and tape him asking for help. Blow... your.... mind. They get WIK cards if they've got kids, food stamps, all sorts of stuff. This is a enraging problem in Texas and probably all over parts of the US where liberal agencies and the democrats cater to the illegal...

287

285....No, you're not alone in that, Chillin for Perry.

That's a big concern for me too. ....Federal judges, Supremes. These are excruciatingly important appointments that a president gets to make.

We are skrood and tatood if Barry gets to make any more appointments.

288

In state tuition? That's nothing!  How about amnesty as supported by Mitts.  Let's try gun control laws - supported by Mitts.  I don't know how to change an address to tiny url but Dec 16, 2007 interview with Tim Russert on Meet the Press.  You can see this interview clips on You Tube and a transcript can be found on MSNBC (yes I know).  Goodness at least we know where Perry stands.  Saying you'll support Mitts instead of Perry because of this issue is crazy. 

 

289 Hi chemjeff!

I am rooting for the Huskers this year in the Big "Ten." Purdue still stinks and I can't get past the image of those punk kids at Wisconsin during the protests. 

And everyone hates Ohio State and Michigan. 

290 Go for a bong. It's a very different experience in terms of your ability to inhale deeply. That's good advice, They sell them at most adult book stores so there is a bonus. But if you do you must call them water pipes or they won't sell them to you. So I've heard.

291 Building a fence on 1200 miles of border along desolate stretches of desert and sometimes heavily populated areas would take 50 years and 1/2 trillion dollars

The border is almost 2000 miles long.

They quote a study here that said 700 miles would cost $49B

Based on that the fence would cost $1.4T or roughly the same as the Obama deficit.

292 @305
Or so I've heard!  Love that!

I've heard that you can make a pipe out of a toilet paper tube and a wire screen from a faucet... Even notice all the missing screens in dorm faucets?  Ever wonder why?  :-)

293 Yes.  To summarize:

Perry needs to shit or get off the pot. 

Vic needs to get on the pot. 

294 I have the same questions.  How does an illegal make a living, in Texas or anywhere?  I understand they can work for cash, in which case they still pay sales tax on everything, or use phony ID's, and still have all the withholding everybody else has. 

Posted by: Pupster at September 24, 2011 10:45 AM (Fwqtm)

Welfare.

295

Look, I would not encourage heavy use for a healthy person (or actually any use, because I think it's easy to abuse marijuana and it is illegal), but I fully support medical marijuana being available.  So, if you can get it legally, I'd try it. 

Also, let us know if you do have appetite issues.  Maybe we can think of recipes that appeal.

Posted by: Y-not at September 24, 2011 01:08 PM (5H6zj)

Of course medical marijuana is a bit of a joke though.  But only because of the people that get it for bullshit non-reasons.  For those that actually do need it I do think its useful, but I doubt they account for even half of the people that do get medical marijuana and even 25% might be pushing it.

What I really have found funny though is when watching shows about people that are making all the stuff from pot keep referring to it as "medicine."

296

Green butter.

That's the ticket. ....You slow sautee the green leafy silly stuff in butter....on lowest heat possible. .... Takes all day. ....Keep the windows open unless you want to get sore cheeks from grinning all day.

When the herb has lost its color....and the Butter has turned green....Voila!

Use the green butter on....anything. ....Brownies, fudge. Toast. Popcorn. ...Whatever.

The more you use.....the more appetitie you will have, or "munchies".

297

Oh and this little exchange on the 12/16/2007 Meet the Press show.  Mitts will not be repealling any health care program. 

MR. RUSSERT:  So if a state chose a mandate, it wouldn't bother you?

GOV. ROMNEY:  I, I, I think it's a terrific idea.  I think, I think you're going to find, when it's all said and done, after all these states that are laboratories of democracy get their chance to try their own plans, that those who follow the path that we pursued will find it's the best path, and we'll end up with a nation that's taken a mandate approach.

298 I think most people just have no idea what kind of benefits illegals receive in the USA and how Federal and State agencies are organized to avoid asking or in fact enable them to be here.

One small example:

Here is a report from LA County Supervisor Mike Antonovich, detailing the cost of welfare to children of illegals as $48 MILLION in ONE county in ONE month in 2009.

Antonovich has been very good about reporting on this type of thing.  I don't understand why so few people seem to care.

299 Of course medical marijuana is a bit of a joke though.

Yes, you're right. 

As are handicapped tags. 

I kind of go for some of those types of laws.  I'd put DADT in that category.  Sometimes it's best to keep the official "society objects" label on activities while acknowledging that there is enough benefit to the people who need it to accept the abuse. 

300 Posted by: Y-not at September 24, 2011 01:08 PM (5H6zj)

Thanks;

First visit to the oncologist is Monday. The surgeon did tell me that the first thing to be decided was whether I needed chemo at all, and then if it was going to be in the form of a pill or IV.  That was encouraging.

If it is IV he says will have to install a porta-cath. I have heard that with those the chemo can be more closely targeted to the organ and nausea is not as bad as with the old methods.

301 I don't want to get stuck with Mitt.That's why I want Perry to up his goddamn game.

302

I would pretty much like to see the debates return to the sit-down format with one moderator.  The candidates chosen should have at least achieved and maintained an 8% (even lower if you want, but not below 3%) position in overall national polling within a certain period of time.  So if you're Santorum, Huntsman, Johnson, and you just keep getting 1% or 2%, you're out.  That might discourage late entrants from jumpin in, but whatever.  Gotta work out the kinks.

But I definitely would like to see the sit-down return without an audience or an audience that was told to sit down and shut up, no applause, no peeps, nothing.

And could someone please tell me where Ron Paul gets off stating that he's in third place?  I vaguely remember reading about him being in third place somewhere, but I can't remember.

303 Yes, I think I did a little digging when you mentioned that device and it sounds like the benefits really outweigh the risks.  Frankly, I didn't find much about problems in the past several years (found a few academic papers circa 2007 that really didn't seem like a big deal). 

304 316 Well,my mom never had much nausea but by the third round of chemo she was quite weak and had no appetite.Through the first 2 rounds she did quite well.The radiation right after the 3rd round hurt her too.

305 Vic, I am wishing the very best possible outcome for you.  Will keep you in my prayers.

306

#225 - Romney has repeatedly said he would repeal and replace Ocare.  The waivers is to immediately remove the impact while he works with Congress to fully repeal.  Has he fully explained replace?  I don't think so but nobody else has either.

#268 - Romney put forward a plan.  Perry has simply said "look at Texas" which doesn't answer the question.

Look I'm 50-50 between Perry and Romney.  I simply want to beat O with the most conservative candidate possible.  Looking at Perry's record I don't accept that Perry is the second coming of Reagan that many made him out be when he jumped into the race.  He looks to be an acceptable governor who governed in a conservative state. Remember nobody was jonesing for a Perry candidacy until May or so when they felt the current field was weak.  As noted above if he had decently at the debates he would be pulling away easily.  Right now he looks (as someone said elsewhere) a less articulate version of W which is a sure loser in '12

307

318 According to all the on-line polls.....Ron Paul is number one!

And yeah, these early debates pretty much suck. ....The only ones who benefit from them are the media pundits, the media itself, and the candidates who have no chance whatsoever of winning the general.

308

Real key for me is the 'Dream Act' stuff shows where they are on baseline Supremacy of the Law issues.

It is illegal for them to be here.  That is not in dispute.

It is illegal to harbor an illegal. 

Ergo, why is it Legal to create a loophole whereby an Illegal can get State benefits of any kind?

Either Change the Law which makes them illegal... or make it so the State does its job... one or the other.

Because the blatant non enforment of the Law, weakens how people feel about the Law itself... and that is a direct threat to the REPUBLIC...

After all, why in the heck should we follow the Law, if our own Government does not?

309 318 Ron Paul is out of his fucking mind.

310 #313 - He is saying states should be able to pursue their own approach which is consistent with the 10th amendment and what is he saying now.  He opined at the time (2007) that he thought the mandate approach that was used in MA would work elsewhere - he isn't saying that now.  Using this qoute to say he would enforce mandates nationally is a distortion and contrary to what he is saying now - that he would not enforce a national mandate.

311 Frankly, I didn't find much about problems in the past several years (found a few academic papers circa 2007 that really didn't seem like a big deal).

Yeah, I quoted a "study" done in Great Britain that showed a lot of failures to the surgeon. He told me to not believe everything I saw on the internet and that GB healthcare was not to be compared to ours. I laughed and said "yet".

I know he knew what I meant.

312 313: "GOV. ROMNEY: I, I, I think it's a terrific idea. I think, I think you're going to find, when it's all said and done, after all these states that are laboratories of democracy get their chance to try their own plans, that those who follow the path that we pursued will find it's the best path, and we'll end up with a nation that's taken a mandate approach. Posted by: ol' miss at September 24, 2011 01:18 PM (i7LZB)" I would dearly love for those that accuse Perry of not being hardcore right enough to PLEASE explain to us why this is an acceptable position for a Republican candidate for the office President of the United States of America.

313 Thanks peaches.

314 328 That was 5 years ago CC,he's flip flopped 20 times on the issue since than.

315 I think what Perry is dealing with in Texas are illegals who have been here awhile, and  he is making the best of a bad situation.  As I said in a different thread. I lived near Detroit, and I think it is a good example of what happens when you don't encourage education/
Detroiters are legal, but with no education (or desire to get any due to welfare) they are a drain on the whole state.  Perry never said he did not want to close the border, or allow more illegals in.  On the contrary, he said that with the Federal governments help, he would be able to close the border.

I agree, that Perry supporters seem better to defend him than he does himself, and that is upsetting.  But, that said, he and Cain are the strongest candidates.  Romney and Christie are way too liberal. 
They would not have been elected in their states otherwise.

316

The only thing that Romney has not flip flopped on.....is that he wants to be President.

He is as desperate for it as Al Gore was back in 2000. ...Acts much the same. ....Like it is 'his turn' now, and he will say anything it takes to get it.

People say that Mitt was great in the last debate. .....He reminded me of a kid who was talking fast because he needed to go to the bathroom.

317 16,000 illegals getting over $160,000,000 a year in tuition breaks. 2011 "Funds for Texas's community and junior colleges, which currently enroll more than 70 percent of the state's college freshmen, would be slashed by nearly $145-million over the next two-year budget cycle, under the proposed spending plan." If only the state had some way to get say $160 million dollars?!?!?! The community colleges would be fine. It's the same as California closing state parks while extending college benefits to illegals.

318 That was 5 years ago CC,he's flip flopped 20 times on the issue since than.

What issue hasn't he flipped on?

He was for AGW before he was against it

He was for national Masscare before he was against it

He was for McCain-Kennedy before he was against it.

He was pro-abortion before he was "pro-life".

I could excuse some of these flip flops if he came up with a legitimate reason why he has changed his positions but he never has.

319 I'm all for medical marijuana, but since we're talking about border security here, keep in mind that if you buy Mexican marijuana just for recreational use you're directly causing the problem. We've had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of it confiscated from smugglers on our ranch. Even with that, every time Mitt or Santorum say we can build a fence in the Rio Grande, I just laugh hysterically and give the tv a double flip-off. Idiots.

Chemo nowadays often doesn't affect appetite, so hopefully it won't be an issue for you, Vic. But if it is I hope you can find a solution, whether it's legal or illegal.

320 334 I agree.I don't want him,that's why I want Perry to do a better job defending himself.

321

Posted by: steevy at September 24, 2011 01:31 PM (fyOgS)

Exactly the problem with Mitt.  He is ripping on Perry over in state tuition for children of illegals (No, I don't agree) but in 2007?  Sorry for continually quoting a 2007 article but I am astounded at the hypocrisy - -

MR. RUSSERT:  The Lowell Sun, your home--one of your hometown, state home papers, said this.  "Governor Mitt Romney expressed support for an immigration program that places large numbers of illegal residents on the path toward citizenship.

"`I don't believe in rounding up 11 million people and forcing them at gunpoint from our country.  With these 11 million people, let's have them registered, know who they are.  Those who've been arrested or convicted of crimes shouldn't be here; those that are paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process towards application for citizenship, as they would from their home country.'"

This is George Bush and John McCain.

GOV. ROMNEY:  Now let's, now let's look at those very carefully, OK, and you're, you're a careful reader.  In the interview with The Boston Globe, I described all three programs that were out there, described what they were, acknowledged that they were not technically an amnesty program, but I indicated in that same interview that I had not formulated my own proposal and that I was endorsing none of those three programs.  I did not support any of them.  I called them reasonable.  They are reasonable efforts to, to look at the problem.  But I said I did not support--and I said specifically in that interview I have not formulated my own policy and have not determined which I would support.  And, of course, the Cornyn proposal required all of the immigrants to go home.  The McCain proposal required most of them to go home, but let some stay.  And the Bush proposal I, frankly, don't recall in that much detail.  But they had very different proposals.  My own view is consistent with what you saw in the Lowell Sun, that those people who had come here illegally and are in this country--the 12 million or so that are here illegally--should be able to stay sign up for permanent residency or citizenship, but they should not be given a special pathway, a special guarantee that all of them get to say here for the rest of their lives merely by virtue of having come here illegally.  And that, I think, is the great flaw in the final bill that came forward from the Senate

322 335 I don't think a fence is a complete answer,though it has it's pasrt in the solution.We need to seal the damn border,that's the bottom line.The worse things get in Mexico(and here,for that matter),the more important border security is.

323 stace, teahadi extremist bitch at September 24, 2011 01:38 I respectfully disagree. Good weed is grown locally using hydroponics. That crappy brown mexican import stuff with some occasional red hair thrown in is mostly found in your inner cities. Or so I've heard.

324 Or so I've heard.

I admire the way you keep your ear to the ground on this particular issue, Oldsailor! 

325 LOL, "good weed".

I haven't seen ANY weed since I left CA in 1977. I wouldn't even know where to get it here.

I guess I would have to find me some of those "musicians" you were talking about and hope none of the ones I contacted were undercover SLED agents.

326

For those who are not familiar with SC and SLED

327

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 24, 2011 01:47 PM (ZDUD4)

Oh I agree. Domestic is fine to buy in regards to border security. But someone is buying the crappy Mexican stuff, because there's a shitload of it coming across. And those folks who are buying that, plus the coke, are causing the problem, both here and in Mexico. The drug $-fueled anarchy in Mexico is causing a lot of people to move here both legally and illegally just to save their own lives.

328 My son is a junior at a Texas college and he had to pay the out of state rate for his first two years. Last year the school rejected his application for in-state rate and it was a Latina with a thick accent who was the one who rejected it. He also roomed with an illegal for a year. Imagine how that feels when your kid does everything right and then get's screwed anyway and then you find out that people who break the law get treated better.

329 Vic,
Medical marijuana growers are allowed to advertise-at least around here.  Your doctor would probably help you find them.  I have a friend who grows it, and it is a business.  They test it for strength, and can tell you which strains you should use.  And to have a license, they need customers.  The more customers, the more they are allowed to grow.  The best tip on here, though, is the tip about turning it into butter.  Make rice krispie treats or cookies and eat a few before bed.  That way if they get you too high you will sleep it off, so you don't have to worry about falling!
All on here need you, and are all pulling for you.

330 343, I don't put weed and coke in the same zip code. I put Booze and weed in the same catagory which is why I think it should be lagalized. But that's another arguement. No, I don't smoke weed, Not for a decade at least. But my recreational pursuits, hobbies have always been filled with those that do.

331 The "you have no heart" line has pushed me into the arms of Mitt Romney. The more I think about it, the more bothered I am by Rick Perry's views on illegal immigrants than I am by Mittens' views on health care.

332 347 Definately it was a stupid thing to say.Reminds me of Bush and his allies attacking everyone against amnesty with numerous charges of racism and zenophobia.

333 Medical marijuana growers are allowed to advertise-at least around here.

Not so in SC

Interesting to note also that even possession of that "bong" mentioned earlier is good for a $500 fine here in good ole' boy SC.

334 Perry would go along with full amnesty in a second.  Get over it and move on.  He sucks on immigration. All this parsing of this policy and that is useless.  He couldn't be more clear on where he stands.  The tuition thing is a sideshow. I will vote for him if he is the nominee knowing I am voting for someone who will not enforce the border.  The end.

335 Speaking of appetite I am cooking a pot of BBQ hash today and that odor keeps drifting in here making me hungry.

336 Finally! New open thread up.

337 Most of the people defending the immigration issue are just defending Perry, imo. We don't want another George Bush, medicare B and open borders.

338 347 Travis, in his last election, Romney said he was for amnesty. You really think he's better on immigration than Perry? Sure the language Perry used is offending a lot of people, but Romney is just doing another one of his big flipflops on the issue. What does that say about him?

339 @112  NO! Resoundingly, NO! No American citizen should be in line behind a non-citizen, illegal or otherwise, for an education. Close the borders. Shoot on sight.

Yeah that will get us slot of votes.

340 alot of votes

341 Dave,

What was the purpose of this? Every state with a higher education system has a similar set of rules. For US citizens from other US states. Who presumably by virtue of that citizenship aren't present in the US through criminal violation of its borders

The issue is whether we should ignore criminal acts in a way that rewards the perpetrator. It sucks if you were brought here as a toddler and now don't enjoy the full benefits of citizenship but it is the parents who must shoulder the blame for this. Not the taxpayers and children of law abiding citizens competing for limited slots at the better schools.

We have the exact same situation here in CA. The only reason the DREAM Act exists is because of Latino activists whose goal is always amnesty. Creating a situation where the state has made a monetary investment (those discounts have to be made up somewhere) is the setup for later saying that this person must be given citizenship or the money was wasted.

It never ends with the La Raza types. There is always some new loophole demanded, some penalty removed or unenforced, more and more, so that illegal alien status stops having any real meaning in any negative sense. From a bunch that loves to talk about reconquering the American Southwest (as if it would have anything worth coming here for if it had always been the mythical nation of Aztlan) it is simply war by other means.

If some Mexican citizen who has been here since he was five years old wants to attend UC Santa Barbara and has the grades to get in, fine. But he should pay the same as a citizen kid from Ohio with the same desire and ability. The line has to be set somewhere and someone has to feel some pain for the violation of our laws. Otherwise the laws are a joke along with the nation.

342 Interesting how all the nut cases rail against a state law that had overwhelming bipartisan support in the legislature and apparently was not considered controversial.  I suppose all their "10th Amendment" complaints don't apply, the states have to all conform with the nutters.

155: The lynchpin is the simple inclusion of the words, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." This means (for the benefit of certain Supreme Court justices) that if the parents of said child aren't American citizens, then said child isn't an American citizen.

No, that is NOT what it means.  "subject to the jurisdiction" just excludes diplomatic missions and personnel.  This isn't rocket science.

343

A gaffee is when you mistakenly say something you really mean.  The allusions to racism and heartlessness by Perry demonstrate how he really feels.

Fine if you support Perry, but stop trying to portray him as a pure conservative.  He isn't.  You are projecting things upon him that just aren't so.

344 What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to American parents? Nothing's stopping them from moving to Texas and attending one of their high schools for 36 months.

345

We're still talking about this?

Look, like I said near the end of the last thread on this subject, I think that reasonable people can disagree about the specific issue of in-state tuition for illegals.  I don't support it, but I can see how some people might support it based on the OP's analysis at the top of this post.  I don't think supporting it makes anyone a RINO.

All Perry had to do was essentially say that, look, he's a squish on immigration.  That's an issue where he's moderate.  Most Republican candidates are a squish on one or more issues.  Nobody's expecting perfection, and if they are they're not gonna get it.  But Perry didn't do that.  Perry said that his squishy view was the only view that doesn't make you heartless, and even implied that racism might be a factor for those of us who take the conservative view on this issue.  That's something that most of us aren't going to forget. 

Perry called immigration conservatives a bunch of heartless bigots.  If a Northeastern Republican had done the same, everyone here would be going apoplectic.  People are giving Perry a pass because he's a cowboy-boot wearin' Southern evangelical.  You know, just like George W. Bush.  How'd that one work out again?

346 A gaffee is when you mistakenly say something you really mean. The allusions to racism and heartlessness by Perry demonstrate how he really feels. Perry meant what he said and didn't back off from it. He really thinks you're all heartless racists, and he's right. You would penalize children for the mistakes of their parents just to teach the parents a lesson. That is cruel. The kids are getting something they earned through going to school in Texas for three years and graduating then applying to college and pursuing citizenship. Texas happily passed this law in their state in 2001. You're just a bunch of asshole rednecks beating up on little kids.

347 Click on the link for another view of NRO, Rinos, and hispandering Neo Cons.

348 If a Northeastern Republican had done the same, everyone here would be going apoplectic. Yeah, people went so easy on John McCain from AZ, and everyone is putting the screws to Romney from MA who supported amnesty.

349 but stop trying to portray him as a pure conservative Enlighten us wtf a "pure conservative" is, because we need a circular firing squad right now.

350

You're just a bunch of asshole rednecks beating up on little kids.

Ladies and gentleman, there you have it: Compassionate Conservatism, circa 2012.  It sounds a lot like liberalism, just with a cowboy hat, a Bible, and a Texas twang.  If the only way you can feel good about yourselves is to elect a Southerner president, then by all means vote for RINO Rick Perry.  Otherwise, come over to the Christie bandwagon.  We have pie.  Lots of it, largely because our candidate demands it!

351 The residency requirement (two years) used to be in place in Virginia and Maryland. I believe Maryland has illegals paying in-state tuition.

352 Ladies and gentleman, there you have it: Compassionate Conservatism, circa 2012. It's people like you who gave conservatism such a bad name that they had to rebrand it. Buckley and Goldwater thought they got rid of you, but someone kicked over your rock.

353 Otherwise, come over to the Christie bandwagon. Ol' Governer Get-The-Hell-Off-The-Beach, eh? I don’t like being scolded by ANY politician, if he has an “R” after his name, or a “D”. Make no mistake: Chris Christie is a vicious politician. How do you go from “not being ready” to run for President, to “reconsidering” it in two months? By political calculation. He knows what he’s doing. If you want Obamacare repealed, Chris Christie Creme ain’t your guy. He’s been AWOL on the lawsuits against it, claiming he didn’t want to participate because of the money involved in the litigation. The filing fees are less than $200. The truth is, now that his borrowing costs in New Jersey have gone up because of its downgrade, he’s banking on the federal money sluicing into his state to help balance his Medicaid accounts. Governor Christie is a loud-mouth. That’s quite different from a passionate, articulate defender of traditional, constitutional conservatism.

354

Posted by: Travis at September 24, 2011 02:03 PM (9WkMB)

Posted by: steevy at September 24, 2011 02:09 PM (fyOgS)

The "heartless" comment punched me in the gut, too, but I'm still voting Perry at this point, even though I now believe he's much "softer" on immigration than a lot of people might like to admit.

After hearing what he had to say in the debate, I'm sure Perry shares the pro-immigration philosophy of the Bushes, Rove, et al.  He thinks relatively open immigration is good for America and the immigrants as well.  So did Reagan.  He instinctively defaulted to an emotional appeal when pressed, and I think that showed us more of where his heart is on immigration. 

I think his talk of border enforcement and the already-existing path to citizenship is politically-driven.  If he wasn't afraid of public opinion on this, he'd support what he thought to be a tough but fair amnesty and would be pretty tentative as far as what enforcement measures he'd support.

Still, while I disagree with him about immigration, particularly in a recession, it's not like he's supporting immigration because he wants to change America (like the Progs).  He's supporting more open immigration because he wants to help the immigrant become American, and, as he sees it, make America stronger by doing so.  That doesn't make him a naive open borders stooge or La Raza mouthpiece.  He knows the facts, he just evaluates them differently than I do.

That being said, it's better to face the reality that Perry's immigration views are Lindsay Graham's than it is to pretend they're not (see RedState).  Those of us who want stronger enforcement and lower quotas re: Mexico will have to depend on Congress to press President Perry on this issue.

The economy at large and ObamaCare both trump immigration policy in 2012.  While I don't trust Perry on immigration, I don't trust Romney at all.  So far it's still a pretty easy decision.  If Perry plays the emotion card on the economy, healthcare or national security, I'll have to rethink, but until then, I'm still OK with him.

If he wants a better pitch for the tuition issue, keep blaming the Feds and say that the Texas college system doesn't have the training, resources etc... to verify and enforce citizenship laws, while the Feds have whole agencies to do so that are foisting their heavy lifting onto Texas schools.  He should also emphasize that the bill had strong support.  I don't think these were his primary motives for supporting tuition credits for illegals, but it makes it easier to swallow. 

 

 

 

355 Damned sock...

356 Shoulda linked this video, Dave

http://tinyurl.com/3l3ml84

357 If he wasn't afraid of public opinion on this, he'd support what he thought to be a tough but fair amnesty and would be pretty tentative as far as what enforcement measures he'd support. If he was afraid of public opinion, he wouldn't have called the Republicans who booed him heartless. He doesn't care what people say; he speaks his mind.

358

Perry meant what he said and didn't back off from it. He really thinks you're all heartless racists, and he's right. You would penalize children for the mistakes of their parents just to teach the parents a lesson. That is cruel. The kids are getting something they earned through going to school in Texas for three years and graduating then applying to college and pursuing citizenship. Texas happily passed this law in their state in 2001. You're just a bunch of asshole rednecks beating up on little kids.

 

LaRaza couldn't have said it any better.  Are some kids from Louisiana who are out of state being penalized or treated with "cruelty" because they speak with cajun accents, and have the misfortune of have a last name that ends in "eaux?

This is race baiting garbage.  It's bad enough we have to listen that crap from Democrats, but the Perry-Krishnas in their zealotry have to spew it too.

 

 

359

Enlighten us wtf a "pure conservative" is, because we need a circular firing squad right now.

Like the one you want to put Romney in the middle of right?

A pure conservative in the sense that on all major issues his position is right of center.  Romney is not in that category, but neither is Perry.

If Romney had said that people who opposed his state-wide health plan were heartless, the Perry supporters would be going into cardiac arrest.

 

360

I haven't read all 375 posts previous to mine but I wanted to say this even if it's repeating someone:  The TEXAS Legislature voted for this.  Where are all the States Rights people?  Or is states rights good only if you agree with it.  BYW, Mexicans were pouring over the border long before this legislation so I don't get the 'magnet' argument.

361 The bottom line is that a U.S. citizen that is currently a resident of another state CANNOT get resident tuition in a Texas school for at least a year while a non-citzen in the country ILLEGALLY can.

362 It's "Won't somebody think of the children?" all over again. It's how the tranzis slowly but surely make border sovereignty meaningless. Any time you try to draw a line at what can and cannot be allow there is always some argument that says you're just a big meanie and have no rational reason for imposing the restriction.

If Perry is going to be a squish on this subject, he just needs to say so. Calling other people heartless because they place the well being of their nation's children above that of trespassers' children is not going to win any friends in my house. If you're a bleeding heart on the issue, own it. But don't go calling me names for actually thinking the law should mean something and be enforced.

When the laws stop meaning anything is a marker of when civilizations start to die. I guess we've been circling the drain since a point early in the 20th Century when stupid and cancerous growth both became primary features of our government. When we started believing we could regulate everything, including chaotic systems that don't respond positively to either threats or bribes.

363

God I am damned tired of the lawyer talk and people who seek loopholes to tell us its legal even if it is immoral.

Now I just bet that if you have been illegally in Texas for six years sucking off the taxpayer tit that makes it all okay while a US citizen who has resided in Texas for only a year is ineligible.  Thiws is the kind of bladdash one expects to see at LGF or Ace of Spades.

I'd like to know how anyone can deny a US citizen a chance at college in favor of an illegal alien.  Please justify it.

I'm sure everyone would like to hear the justification that exists for it.

364

Isn't Chemjeff the transvestite that was on Hannity yestderday?

 

I sure do hate RINOs.  They all dress funny.

365

Dave in Texas:

 

You are the Michael Bellessiles of this tread.  WTF.

366  Governors cannot deport anyone. Federal law requires the states educate children K-12, regardless of whether or not they're legal. The Federal government is not deporting anyone.

 The legislature of the state of Texas voted to allow these kids resident tuition. Had Perry vetoed it his veto would have been overridden and he would have lost political capital that he might need for something more important.

 Oh, and, Y'all, you can't wall off a fucking big river like the Rio Grande. It just cannot be done.Crops would fail due to lack of irrigation. The livestock of southwest Texas would die, along with the wildlife.

 Want to control the illegals? Simple. Deport those we catch. Eliminate sanctuary cities. Make that electronic deal with the social security numbers work. After we do that put teeth in the laws against hiring illegals. And stop punishing border patrol agents and police officers for doing their jobs.

 Oh, and Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

367 So if you are not a resident, you can get resident-status tuition in Texas by becoming a resident. No fucking shit, Sherlock. It still looks to me like an illegal alien living in Texas gets a tuition break that a legal citizen of Oklahoma does not get (unless, of course, the Okie marries someone in Texas, or runs a business there for a year, or...  NO SHIT)

368 Nice commentary. last thirty days I uncovered this internet site and desired to permit you be conscious that iÂ’ve been gratified, heading via your siteÂ’s posts. I should certainly be signing equally as much as the RSS feed and can wait around for another post.

369 Sigh, I've found this whole debate amusing, much like it was here in Oregon earlier this year when the state legislature dems tried to get it passed. Perry is wrong. You can talk all you want about how they're already here and yeah the feds don't enforce immigration law but you're still offering tuition to illegal immigrants that you won't offer to non state residents (without caveats). Non Texans Americans who's parents (or themselves) have paid federal taxes that have likely in some way gone to Texan schools (primary and secondary education) thru fed grants, especially state universities (land grant schools). You go this route with illegals, then you might as well drop all residency requirements if you want to be "equal". But then, its never been about equality or fairness. This on top of the fact that in a bad economy you're letting in more and more immigrants and giving them incentives to stay all while paying out more welfare to Americans who can't get jobs.

370 I am late in this for sure. Read many but not the majority of comments. Not sure about the 3 year residency for American citizens. I read the requirements for Tx residence not too long ago. I thought it was one year. I moved to TX in 1979 as a senior in HS and enrolled in Tx college as resident with in-state tuition in 1980. Has this changed?

371 117 Dave in Texas used to be cool before he sold out to Big Leafblower. What's next, Dave? Allowing them to pay in-state tuition with bags of oranges and Chiclets? Sellout. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 24, 2011 10:54 AM (z/M So easy to accuse. Your solutions please!

372 If he was afraid of public opinion, he wouldn't have called the Republicans who booed him heartless. He doesn't care what people say; he speaks his mind.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at September 24, 2011 04:21 PM (lNGfM)

As a still-Perry-supporter, I'll give him more credit than that.  If he doesn't care what people say, he's a helluva lousy politician.  I consider the "heartless" jab a mistake on his part for that reason unless he's willing to come clean and lay out the non-emotional case for why illegal in-state-tuition is better than the alternatives.  He mistakenly showed his true colors when he knows his opinions run counter to the people voting for him.

If you're going to try to make a Reykjavik-style "courageous conviction" moment out of that comment, he needs to do a lot more follow-up than he showed me yesterday,  when he simply acted like he never said anything objectionable.

Saying Perry was just straight-shootin' from the hip as always sounds rather like the Palinistas retroactively parsing her language about Paul Revere.  He slipped up and let his mask slip on that issue.  It's not fatal, I still support him, but I'm not going to act like it was a triumph of public speaking (see RedState) rather than a mistake.

373 http://tinyurl.com/3odtkx2

The argument becomes moot if schools are deliberately favoring out of school applicants in pursuit of more money. Those illegal alien kids can have a better chance of getting in if they apply as international students who just happens to live in driving distance of the campus.

374 "138 I can't believe Ace's music video link to Hayseed Dixie wasn't this song: http://tinyurl.com/3l3ml84" In the book readin' bidness, that's what you call an 'Easter Egg' - 'cept in deference to the crowd here, it wasn't all that hard to uncover. I actually like the HD cover better, because it sounds more like a real song, rather than some guy got his hands caught between the tire and wheel well when he was trying to change it and the heated up asphalt started sliding. Plus I like pickin' and these guys can pick. Plus the sideways look from the lead singer is a bit menacing, which makes it feel homey. Here's the thing about this attack on Perry: in the first place, he should have stayed away from going after Romney on Romneycare because it's not as if anyone's about to forget, and in the second, there state doesn't exist that doesn't have at least one program that's a necessary sop to that state's political reality that can't play on the national stage. I kind of think Perry knew that, and would've stayed with how he's been presenting himself for years now, except now like any favorite his campaign's getting larded up with professional gooroos, but instead gave a shot at standard debate club and it misfired and backfired and sputtered, because it's just not him. It's fixable: all he has to do is stop trying to fence with a flip-flopper and keep referring back to his record of leadership.

375 "40 ... Right now I see us gaining 5-6 seats in the senate next year and another 6-8 in the House, not a lot (but then again we won so many in 2010 we aren't going to approach those gains two elections in a row)." The Dems are in a lot of trouble in the Senate, and certainly are going to lose seats, and 5-6 is certainly possible. But any sort of gain in the House is going to have to factor that quite a few of the newer members, specifically those in the Tea Bag Caucus, are simply not going to repeat - and, along with them a few quite able members who maybe get too identified with them by independents. It can't be ignored that 2010 was not a presidential year, so there was the usual very low turn-out among low information voters we always see in non-potus years, plus there'll be less vote splitting among those independents who tend to show up in all election years. It used to be, in the olden days, that sea-change House results were rare: since 1994, they've become so common, the converse is actually the exception. You also have to figure in the comparators, and there really isn't one handy. When Roosevelt won in 1932, he did nothing that resulted in any change in the economy and jobs for the next four years - in fact Republicans gained traction in 1936 - but he still won, and won bigger in 1940. "It's the economy, stupid" is a rule of thumb, but when things go waaaay sideways, it doesn't necessarily hold. That's one reason I prefer Perry: it's very difficult for the Dems to parse his jobs record in Texas, especially with independents, especially with low-information independents - it takes conditioners and graphs and comparisons with the situations in other states, and it's not just low information voters who won't go for that sort of parsing, it's so much work independents in general won't. And people who assume that Romney's career as a successful businessman is going to translate in an image as a jobs-creator are kidding themselves: not only WAS he that guy in Wall Street who acquired companies and fired everyone, he reeks of that part, and there's no sign that he's come up with a way to overcome that impression (Just watch him on stump on YouTube trying to parse that image.). It's not just that conservatives don't care for the Romney record in office and his flip-floppery - it's that there's simply no way for voters in general to identify with him.

376 Perry has had plenty of time to explain this in simple words.  He didn't.

377 PS.  Dave in Texas.  You should brief Perry.

378 Rex.  This is why the Dems have been pushing the Congress is bad, and its the Republicans, meme all year. They are relying on the sack them all push to increase their numbers.

379

The only reason people are against in state tuition to the kids of illegals is because they are Mexican. If they were White Anglo Saxon from UK, Holland, German and Denmark, "Conservatives" people would be all for it.

The Republican is a party of snake handling bible thumping bigots. That's why I left it. The Democrats aren't an alternative either. Their racism is one of turning what they deem non white into serfs. But at least they don't seek to throw Latinos into camps or deport us.

380 "67 As long as there are no Affirmative Action shenanigans involved,  the least of our fucking problems is illegal Mexicans who actually get into college.  Too bad more of their white trash neighbors are incapable of doing likewise."
Well said! I wish Conservatives would kick out the inbred white trash scum from the Republican Party.