1 Despite the all the Texas pride, there's no special requirements for Texas citizenship.

How I sometimes wish there were...

2 Second! Screw you.

3

This is a valid issue.

It's also valid to address that Perry has called for National Guard on the border, more Border Patrol Agents, and Predator Drones on the border. Also he has stated there should be no Federal Immigration Reform agreements until th eborder is secured.

I'm sure this act will be called pandering to the citizens of Texas, 1/3 of which are Hispanic. Just as Romney pandered to the liberals in Massachuesetts by raising taxes and fees and property taxes to shore up his increased spending.

Complicated issue.

 

4

And the bottom line is it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is. That is the American way.

Fuck you, Bush 45. You having fun telling the CNN audience that conservatives opposed to your stance are just bigots targeting "the sound" of a name? Fuck you. Been under that bus already.

God help me but I might support Romney on the border fence alone.

 

5

More of a problem?  If you KNOWINGLY help an illegal alien stay in the US, it is still a Felony by Federal Law.

This 'standard' says the Texas system KNOWS they are illegal (or at least not legal) and helps them, knowingly, with State Benefits, which will help them stay in the US.

Kinda hard to be a Stand Up Law and Order Guy... when you support the selective enforcement of the Law.

6

I think Immigration was always his biggest flaw and everyone kinda knew that going into this.

My only question is what is Romney, Bachmann or any other candidates real policy on immigration? It's one thing to say "build a fence", follow through is something else.

I think it's fairly obvious that we can't kick out 11 million people, at the same time we can pursue policies that make it advantagous for them to leave voluntarily. Perry seems to be solf on illegal aliens and that is clearly his biggest weakness, but the problem is that there is no real viable alternative candidate who is further to the right on this issue.

 

 

 

Also, congrats to Michelle Bachmann for claiming the Garidisil vaccine causes retardation in a post debate interview. Good political move.

7 Fuck this shit.  What is it about "illegal" that these pandering cocksuckers don't understand.  We as citizens don't have the luxury of deciding which fucking laws we feel like obeying.  Rove should be strung up for ever making this acceptable to Repukes.

8 Yet he's still better than Mitt.

9

"we can't kick out 11 million people"

 

I think the 11 million figure is drastically more than that.

Agree with your statement though.

10 Using taxpayer monies to force little girls to take ANOTHER vaccination (an unnecessary one to boot)and paying taxpayer monies to ATTRACT illegals to America and keep them here, and NOT enforce immigration laws -- which DREAM Act-type legislation presumes -- is just the same old RINO-ism we've been putting up with right along. You see what is in a person's heart BY WHAT THAT PERSON DOES! How hard is that to understand?

11 I've held my nose voting for him the last 2 times, but this particular issue really pisses me off with ALL politicians.

Pandering to the illegal alien for the sake of legal mexican voters is WRONG WRONG WRONG and needs to stop.

If that's the case....just open the fuc*ing boarders and let em all screw us into the ground.

12
meanwhile...

crude is flirtin with $90/bbl

13 Personally I think there are closer to 20 million illegal aliens in this country.

14 20 million aliens ... that's a lot of spaceships to round up ...

15 I'm sure, however, that Perry will have no problem forging an amicable alliance with Gramnesty and Juan Amnesty McVain...

16
Nobody gives a shit about poopaloma vaccine, dream acts, or granny's social security check.

People care about jobs and affording gas and food.

17

"we can't kick out 11 million people"

You eat an elephant one bite at a time.

I'd be happy if he'd just support the border fence.  But I guess that's too much to ask.

I never thought I'd say that Mitt is looking better but...Mitt is looking better.

18 Like I've said before, every response to this should begin with "If the federal government was doing its job ..."

I'm about as hard-core anti-illegal immigration as it gets, but it's tough to ding Perry too hard for trying to practically address the problem of the massive amount of illegals in a state with a 1,200 mile border with Mexico given the constraints placed on him by the feds' inaction.

19

20 million aliens ... that's a lot of spaceships to round up ...

We better get started.

20 Correct.  It is easier for an illegal alien to get in-state tuition than a legal alien or new resident of the state.  Someone in the state legally has to prove they are residents with fee receipts, utility bills, and TX ID going back the three years.  An illegal signs a piece of paper saying "yeah I've been here".

This ranks up there with MittCare having been altered by Deval to exclude legal aliens while the state still picks up the tab for illegals and/or passes the cost on to the feds.  In both cases illegals in TX and MA get to freeload on the taxes, fees, and time legal residents must spend.  If the only impact of Governor Perry's action was on the TX coffers it would not be my business, but the price structure of the institutions he changed the rules for are based on Federal money.

The "Dream" advocates ONLY saving grace is they are not Obama.

21 This would not be a problem if we had the borders secured and we knew what we were going to do with the illegal aliens that have lived here all their lives. The fact that the problem has not been addressed continues to exacerbate the situation. If illegal aliens that have lived their entire life in Texas are going to remain in Texas, then I say, by all means let them get an education. If they are going to return to Mexico or whereeve they came from, then return and apply for entrance to the USA legally. My preference is seal the border and make everyone follow the law. If we do not respect our own laws, no one else will.

22 Perry said eligibility was based in part on students being in college and, is "...working and pursuing citizenship in the state of Texas,". Now, I take that to mean US citizenship because he already said you had to live in Texas for 3 years. Despite the all the Texas pride, there's no special requirements for Texas citizenship.

I'm guessing he meant residency.  Lots of debate over residency requirements in state higher education facilities, no matter where you are.

23 DREAM Acts cause mental constipation. Troof! LOLloLlolo! I like cookies! *fart*

24 ......what's his stance on ranchers being able to shoot illegals trespassing on and damaging their land? if he's ok with that he's still a viable candidate for me......i'm still waiting for clarification on what kind of coyote he shot...the animal or the person kind....

25 19 fo' shizzle ...

26

The difference is that Texas' in-state tuition act only relates to a decision by the state of Texas on how to charge for tuition at it's state univeristies. I don't agree with it, but it was passed overwhelmingly (veto-proof) by the TX legislature, and it is their right. True, it benefits people that, in theory (by law), the Federal Government should be rounding up and deporting, but instead the Federal Government is actively blocking states from enforcing immigration law (see Arizona).

The federal Dream Act is actually a vehicle to provide amnesty to illegal immigrant college students (or older illegals who might go to college, or have thought of going to college, or have a family member who might go to college, or....).

27

I'm sure this act will be called pandering to the citizens of Texas, 1/3 of which are Hispanic. Just as Romney pandered to the liberals in Massachuesetts by raising taxes and fees and property taxes to shore up his increased spending.

Complicated issue.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 13, 2011 11:32 AM (kaOJx)

You can pander without painting conservatives as bigots. "And the bottom line is it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is." Save that shit for the private, off-the-record fundraisers in NYC.

28

Also, congrats to Michelle Bachmann for claiming the Garidisil vaccine causes retardation in a post debate interview. Good political move.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 11:36 AM (wuv1c)

She really did that? Proof? Studies? Pulled it out of her ass? 

29 I said on the debate thread last night that Perry's performance was worrisome, and that he had really hurt himself.  The problem we all have is that none of them, not Perry, nor Mittens, nor the rest, is perfect.  Denunciation of candidate X because he doesn't perfectly fit a template leaves nobody to vote for, because they all have flaws. 

That's why people are still holding out hope for the white knight to ride in and fulfill all their dreams.  Ain't gonna happen.  Now we just have to decide which of their sins we can live with.

30 I have an idea.  Let's forcefully vaccinate all the illegals with the Gardisil vaccine and they will either die or become mentally retarded.  Problem solved.

31 Well you might want to read this article from Andrew Ferguson at The Weekly Standard-Perry and the Profs. It doesn't pertain specifically to this issue but it explains that Perry has done yeoman's work in an effort to make Texas universities worth the tuition, and to reduce the average tuition prices. Any businessman in a profit-seeking enterprise would see ideas like “pay for performance” as unremarkable, but they overwhelm the delicate sensibilities of people who have spent their professional lives on campus, where the word “nonprofit” is meant to act as a firewall against the unpleasantness of commercial life. “Texas Governor Treats Colleges Like Businesses,” headlined the Chronicle of Higher Education​—​a sentence sure to induce aneurysms in faculty lounges from El Paso to Galveston. The outrage was deafening, especially when university regents began acting on the recommendations. The Texas A&M system, for example, which includes a dozen schools, posted a spreadsheet on its website evaluating teacher performance on a cost-benefit basis. “Very simplistic and potentially very dangerous,” an official of the American Association of University Professors said. “This is .  .  . simplistic,” said the dean of faculties at A&M. “Simplistic,” said the Houston Chronicle. A group of former regents and wealthy school boosters organized a pressure group to oppose -PerryÂ’s reforms. The group hired Karen Hughes, a close aide to the second President Bush, as press spokesman. The rage at Perry from within the establishment has taken many forms: You think itÂ’s easy stealing someoneÂ’s college transcript? The protests might have been more effective except that Perry, for the last decade, has been seeding Texas higher education with like-minded reformers (cronies too). By 2009 he had appointed every regent in the state. The chancellor of A&M who issued the cost-benefit report, for example, was a former chief of staff of the governor. At least three campus presidents have been pressured to resign in recent years, to make way for Perry appointees​—​all Republican businessmen. A particularly popular (and vocal) vice president of student affairs at the University of Texas was removed and replaced by .  .  . a retired Marine Corps general. The appointees werenÂ’t as pliant as Perry might have wished. The implementation of the reforms has been difficult and at times dilatory. Perry barrels on. In his state of the state address this spring, he urged administrators to develop a four-year bachelorÂ’s degree that would cost less than $10,000 “including textbooks.” The discount degree, he said, would be a “bold, Texas-style solution” to the problem of rapidly rising tuition. (The average in-state cost of a four-year degree in Texas, including books, is roughly $30,000.) After the goal was declared impossible by PerryÂ’s critics, the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board published a plan to lower costs dramatically: greater use of online classes and “open-source” course materials, accelerated or staggered student schedules, fuller integration of four- and two-year colleges, and more.

32 She really did that? Proof? Studies? Pulled it out of her ass?

She went there.  Look in the side bar.

That dog don't hunt.

33

"I don't agree with it, but it was passed overwhelmingly (veto-proof) by the TX legislature,"

 

Wait. I thought based on Romney and Bachman's ravings that this was another Executive Order by Perry. You mean the elected legislature passed this Dream Act? Sure haven't heard any criticsim of the Texas Legislature from Romney or Bachman or their supporters.

 

34 DaMN vAxeEn 111111

35

If that's the case....just open the fuc*ing boarders and let em all screw us into the ground.

Welcome to California!

36 Trans-Texas Highway(Super Highway) state property theft, anyone? I don't doubt that people like Perry (and Bush)were greatly encouraged by Kelo v New London, and haven't permanently given up those plans. PROPERTY OWNERS IN TEXAS BEWARE!!

37 Whatever anyone wants to do, has to first start with securing the border.  Then we can figure out what to do with everybody already here.  Texas has more than just Mexican illegals BTW

38 14 20 million aliens ... that's a lot of spaceships to round up ...

We need Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith.  Perhaps this will be the plot for MiB3? 

And you may need some IDF women, HB. 

39 I guess this is going to be our all-purpose post-debate thread, so let me just say that Michele Bachmann has reserved a spot for herself in hell by going out and mainstreaming (whether intentionally or because she's a fucking shoot-from-the-hip moron) anti-vax propaganda on national television.

40 Illegal Mexicans still remain somewhere after #11 on my personal Top 10 list of issues, but I can see why people who really care about this issue would see this as pandering.  Mind you, that's pandering with a small 'p,' not PANDERING!!

41

Perry sucks bad on immigration.

He's a better over-all candidate than the also-rans, but that makes it all the more important that conservatives hold his feet to the fire in a MAJOR way on his failings instead of getting all defensive and engaging in apologism and wishful thinking, like most folks on this website.  The only problem with Drew M.'s post was that it was too tepid and apologetic.

Nope, Perry needs to be roasted for his opposition to a border fence and his amnesty-waffling and his Dream Act support.  That's the only hope for making him make credible commitments to improvement before the general election rolls around.

42 I thought most of the illegals went home because they can't find jobs in the SCOAMF economy either.

43 Eh... If Perry wants to fight coherently on this issue he needs to change the terms of the debate. "I have always believed, like Ronald Reagan, that being American is not tied so much to th accident of ones birth but instead the attitude of ones heart. The problem is the false dichotomy forced onto us by liberals, that immigrants can come freely and keep their culture, I believe like we did long ago that all are welcome, but they must be in their hearts Americans. Immigrants whether legal or illegal polish or Mexican, who are culturally American ought always be welcome, but they must conform to our culture.". GM and Chrysler were 'born' in the US but they are by actions Soviet not American...Toyota is more American than they."

44 'Yeoman work' or 'yeoman service' is simply good, honest, hard work. A yeoman was a class of farmer, above a labourer but below a land-owner - a tenant farmer - who had (has) a reputation for hard toil. That really fits Perry to a "t".

45 I'm guessing he meant residency.  Lots of debate over residency requirements in state higher education facilities, no matter where you are.
Posted by: Slublog at September 13, 2011 11:42 AM (0nqdj)

But he already said that they had to be a resident of the state for 3 years, so it would be redundant.

Plus, as the official state higher ed handbook makes clear, they are talking about pursuing federal citizenship/residency.

I think his answer that they had to be "pursuing citizenship" was misleading to be charitable.

46 To echo Jeff B.'s idea, Sarah Palin is a gutless attention ho.  Just sayin.

47 16
Nobody gives a shit about poopaloma vaccine, dream acts, or granny's social security check.

People care about jobs and affording gas and food.

Posted by: Soothsayer at September 13, 2011 11:40 AM (G/zuv)

What, you think that all those 20 million illegals are UNEMPLOYED?

Illegal immigration is ALSO a Jobs issue.

48 OMG, I agree with Jeff B.  It's early but I need a shot of Jack Daniels.

49 Glancing at Wikipedia (http://tinyurl.com/64cdr49), it looks as though there could be a few intermediate steps (not to mention red tape lags) between wanting to be a permanent resident and being able to actually apply for it.  That said, I haven't put a lot of study into this and so hopefully people who know more will chime in.

If that's what this is, a program designed to help the most pr, omising of a narrow group of people who did not choose to come here illegally, and which takes into account that the process can take a long time before even getting to the formal application phase, then it sounds okay so far.  I'd like it even better if there were a review every semester to see if the student were eligible and if he had in fact applied (and would be kicked out for violating the Honor Code if not).

As important as illegal immigration is, at the moment there's still a temptation to be a broken glass voter and pick the person most likely to defeat Obama.  It's like the Scott Brown election: we know he's going to break our hearts many times, but between being the best we can hope for in that state and being the crucial vote to stop the worst excesses, it's worth it.

Also: Bachmann, and perhaps Sarah Palin, are now dead to me.  If the alternative is Obama, then I'll vote for either of them, but otherwise no.

50 @39: Hang on.  If that actually happened to that woman's daughter, then there's a serious problem here.

51

Also, congrats to Michelle Bachmann for claiming the Garidisil vaccine causes retardation in a post debate interview. Good political move.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 11:36 AM (wuv1c)

She really did that? Proof? Studies? Pulled it out of her ass? 

Proof is overrated.

52 Er, 45 was me.

53 Why is this an issue? No, really. Do you honestly believe that President Perry will make all illegal aliens U.S. citizens on day one? Day five? His second term? What is the fear here? Can someone explain to me how Perry's stance on immigration will affect his Presidency? Short of another misguided attempt at amnesty (which didn't happen) I fail to see how this will translate into bad policy once the guy is sworn in.

54 ick...i need a shower.....i agree with jeff b........

55 38 you da man! man ...

56 Obviously the government at all levels must be rolling in the dough to be offering discounted college rates to illegals.

There is *no* rational argument for doing so. Even if you approve of unlimited immigration, make them pay the out of state rate instead of subsidizing them.

57 Obama's dream of destroying the economy so no one wants to come here seems to be working well.

58 And how the fuck is someone supposed to become retarded from a vaccination they receive at the AGE OF TWELVE OR THIRTEEN, by the way?  The typical anti-vax propaganda says that it's toddlers who are at risk for developing autism from vaccines (and this happens because it's nearly impossible to tell a child has autism until a year or two, after they've begun developing their personality).  But who goes from a normal twelve year old soccer-playing kid to a retarded kid from a vaccine?

It's not just irresponsible anti-vax propaganda, it's STUPIDLY GARBLED anti-vax propaganda.

59 @50  Please.  That vaccine did not cause retardation.  Where did this come from, Jenny MacCarthy and the Lancet??

60

First, "And the bottom line is it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is",

Okay, as a Perry supporter, let me say, from the bottom of my black soul, fuck you sideways with Cheney's warcock, Rick.  I am so sick of that shit.

In addition, if the student was not a U.S. Citizen or Permanent Resident, he/she had to file an affidavit with his/her institution, indicating an intent to apply for Permanent Resident status as soon as able to do so.

You know what? It's rather horrible for Texas institutions to be suborning perjury like that.

Yeah, I agree, no shit he doesn't want to get into specifics about it.  The specifics suck. 

That's it, I'm hereby announcing my candidacy for President.  My platform?  Worship and despair, bitches, worship and despair. 

61 Mind you, that's pandering with a small 'p,' not PANDERING!!

Posted by: Mr. Fire at September 13, 2011 11:47 AM (TOk1P)

"Pandering" by portraying conservative opponents of his policy as bigots (rather than as opposed to illegal immigration) is not small p, it's a product of the PANDER 3000 X MODEL PANDERING DEVICE 4.0.

62 Palin = dead to me now

63 Well he also set up Texas Ranger Recon teams to offset the federal short fall. And I'll add it's real easy for gals from the frozen tundra of Minnesota or the icy shores of Alaska to hypothesis to their crowd that somehow they would have done everything better. In just the two years or so that they've been in government...

64

I'm sure this act will be called pandering to the citizens of Texas, 1/3 of which are Hispanic. Just as Romney pandered to the liberals in Massachuesetts by raising taxes and fees and property taxes to shore up his increased spending.

Complicated issue.

 Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 13, 2011 11:32 AM (kaOJx)

Bingo. This is my biggest Perry problem, but as I look around the stage, I don't really see anyone who will be tougher on immigration than Perry. Bachmann maybe, but shes never had to deal with the political reality of illegals, and its easy to talk the big game when it doesn't matter.  

65 At its core the Texas DREAM act is about how the state of Texas chooses to allocate its resources in terms of tuition revenue for its state schools.  Texas charges in-state tuition for students from a region, including bordering states.  In my reading of it, it really wasn't targeted at illegals per se, even if Perry and others defend that aspect of it. 

So here's the deal.  The people of the state of Texas, through their elected legislators, overwhelmingly endorsed this tuition law which was passed as Perry assumed office. 

They apparently have decided that they can afford to take a financial hit (via lower tuition fees collected) to the tune of what they would have collected off of ~1% of their total student population (assuming every illegal student replaces an out of state student; it would be an economic wash if they took the place of Texas residents). 

Perry has often criticized the Feds for not enforcing the border. But given that the Feds refuse to do so - and obstruct efforts to do so - he has a problem of what to do with the children of illegals (who are, of course, illegal themselves - but not really of their own making).  He supports what the legislature overwhelmingly decided to do.  Had he opposed it, nothing would be different - he simply does not have the votes to overturn this law. 

I have to say, as much as illegal immigration concerns me, I don't see any serious flaws with Perry's policies on a national level, even if I disagree with this particular law in his state. 

66 As much as most all of us would like, they are simply not going to kick all of the illegals out of this country.  Reality sucks like that.

67

In his worst dimensions, Rick Perry does not deviate from insider GOP doctrine.

You think you're going to get better than this from Romney?

68

Illegal immigration is ALSO a Jobs issue.

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 13, 2011 11:48 AM (NtXW4)

Did he not say that the border needs to be controlled first?  He at least said that, which is light years better than what SCOAMF has going on

69

The stupid party ain't just the candidates, apparently. We are heading down the path to total economic doom and the edge is in sight. BUT, you know what is really critical? You know what we need to be focused on?

STUPID SHIT!

 

70 I'm all in for alexthechick.

71 "Pandering" by portraying conservative opponents of his policy as bigots (rather than as opposed to illegal immigration) is not small p, it's a product of the PANDER 3000 X MODEL PANDERING DEVICE 4.0.

This.  I love Perry and I want him to win, but you don't win primaries by telling the base to go fuck themselves.

72 35

If that's the case....just open the fuc*ing boarders and let em all screw us into the ground.

Welcome to California!

Posted by: Cheri at September 13, 2011 11:46 AM (G+Wff)

Went to a bar in Modesto a couple of weeks ago, which is supposed to play Classic Rock... nice place, older crowd (people even in their 60's and 70's out dancing)... then at 10:00 they started playin music in Spanish... after TWO songs in Spanish, I asked the Bartender about it... and he said it was 'classic spanish music from the 80's'.... 

When the third song in Spanish started... we left... and will never set foot in said bar again...

I've traveled all over the world... but I never expected, as an American White 52 year old Male, to feel like an Alien, in the town where I was born and raised...

73 Let's please be smart about this, guys. Please.

74 The HPV-Gardasil® vaccine has been used in the U.S. and around the world for several years and has been very safe. However, any medicine could possibly cause a serious problem, such as a severe allergic reaction. The risk of any vaccine causing a serious injury, or death, is extremely small. Life-threatening allergic reactions from vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it would be within a few minutes to a few hours after the vaccination. Several mild to moderate problems are known to occur with this HPV vaccine. These do not last long and go away on their own. Reactions in the arm where the shot was given Pain (about 8 people in 10) Redness or swelling (about 1 person in 4) Fever Mild (100° F) (about 1 person in 10) Moderate (102° F) (about 1 person in 65) Other problems Headache (about 1 person in 3) Fainting. Brief fainting spells and related symptoms (such as jerking movements) can happen after any medical procedure, including vaccination. Sitting or lying down for about 15 minutes after a vaccination can help prevent fainting and injuries caused by falls. Tell your doctor if the patient feels dizzy or light-headed, or has vision changes or ringing in the ears. Like all vaccines, HPV vaccines will continue to be monitored for unusual or severe problems. This information was taken directly from the HPV-Gardasil VIS [PDF - 65KB] (This information taken from HPV VIS dated 5/3/11. If the actual VIS is more recent than this date, the information on this page needs to be updated.) it could do damage if a severe allergic reaction occurred..... but the allergic reaction happens immediately....and severe reactions are rare....so....there you go.....

75 When it comes election day so-called "conservatives" will get the compromise candidate THEY VOTED FOR and compromised on.

76

Just to re state, Perry has called for more Border Patrol Agents, Predator Drones on the border, and troops on the border. And no Federal Immigration Reform until the border is secure.

Everyone else wants a fence.

77 I have not been reassured by Perry's performance in the debates thus far, which has me reconsidering my confidence in his ability to take on Obama in the general. His answer on the Dream Act was absolutely awful. Doesn't matter what the sound of your last name is? So now Perry is telling me if I disagree with the Dream Act I am somehow bigoted? I agree with Drew. Perry better come up with a better explanation on this issue or I will soon be changing my preference in the primary. To all of you who have been saying "don't embrace Perry too hard too early," well, I see where you're coming from now.

78

I don't want to sound like a Perry homer, even though he has my vote as of now.

This is easily the thing I like the least about him. His immigration policy. However, what other option do we have? Is Romney, Bachmann or Palin tougher on immigration.

 

Also, let's be realistic. A border fence is a great idea in many areas, but we can't build a fence that strectches the entire border. Heck most of the terrain is almost unpassable as it it. A lot of people die trying to cross through desolate areas. It's unlikely that a fence will be much help in areas like that.

We simply need fences in certain areas, drones, national guard and more border guards.

That said, the easiest way to get illegals out involves little more than massive punishments for businesses caught employing illegals. I think all americans and especially conservatives should support that.

Do keep in mind that Bush couldn't get through amnesty when he had a mainly RINO filled Republican House and Senate, what in the world makes you think Perry would get one through a republican house and senate filled with a large percentage of tea party members.  It's not as though amnesty is extremely popular in many democratic areas either.

79 There are also multi-agency intel cells working 24/7 along the border, collecting, coordinating and dispensing intel to appropriate agencies.

80 I have absolutely had it with the anti-vac freaks.  And I do mean freaks. Check the CDC stats on polio outbreaks, or how about diptheria?  KMA on the damn guardisil, Bachmann.  No one in Texas was forced to give their daughter that vaccine.  NO ONE.

81 Demography is destiny (i.e. if it's not your #1 issue, you're not paying attention) and Perry sucks regarding immigration, citizenship, and the border.  I've voted for him (as bad as he is, he's better than Kay Bailout in all other areas) but this constantly stops me cold.  As it stands, I might possibly consider voting in 2012 if he's the nominee, whereas I'm sitting it out if it's any of the other repukes.  The problem is not illegal immigration, it's ALL IMMIGRATION.

82 Perry's view is that by letting them take advantage of the in-state tuition rate that they would then be contributing members to society, like immigrants over the last couple centuries. There's a lot more dole than welfare, such as medicaid, etc. I don't agree with Perry on this, but I do see his point. He did do a crappy job answering it last night and needs to do a much better job explaining.

83

Posted by: Gov98 at September 13, 2011 11:48 AM (+yyD7)

I would edit your speech to add:

"We will build a border fence. We will insist, like every other nation, that our border be respected. It will long and as impenetrable as possible. And, at regular intervals, there will be gates. With large WELCOME signs over them. And those who enter will enter in the light of day, and give their names and state their intentions. If they seek citizenship, they will be helped. If they seek temporary work or a visit, they can find that too. If they seek neither, they will be sent back."

84
Text of the Texas Dream Act HB 1403, which was a resident tuition bill, rather than the Federal Dream Act, which concerns citizenship:

http://goo.gl/Mf94V

Note the bill passed

the Texas House on Yeas 142, Nays 1, 2 present, not voting;
the Texas Senate, with Yeas 30, Nays  0, 1 present, not voting

So, it's not as if anyone in the Party was complaining back then.

85 Posted by: Romeo13 at September 13, 2011 11:54 AM (NtXW4)

Hey, you forget to take your complimentary set of maracas.

86 Why is this an issue? No, really. Do you honestly believe that President Perry will make all illegal aliens U.S. citizens on day one? Day five? His second term? What is the fear here?
Can someone explain to me how Perry's stance on immigration will affect his Presidency? Short of another misguided attempt at amnesty (which didn't happen) I fail to see how this will translate into bad policy once the guy is sworn in.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 11:49 AM (EPcuy)

It is an issue for every legal immigrant, like me, who stood in line, got all their paperwork done, went to work and payed taxes. When I went to school here I did not get any damn brakes for being legal. I am still paying out of my nose just to get my green card renewed and just had to lay out a shit load of money to apply for citizenship, even so my children are citizens and are active military. Why should I go rah rah rah for a governor who thinks this is not a problem, just so he can get the hispanic vote. At the same time you all bounce on Scoamf for doing the same thing. Double standard?

87 Oh hey I'm sure they'll spend ten minutes on it at the next debate. And, here is how some of the "rationalization " goes. Michelle Malkin posts a photoshopped picture of Perry with a green band aid across his head and a syringe-*they* love it. Ace posts a picture of Sarah Palin shaking hands with Grover Norquist-end of the world. Paulbots load the crowd and go wild-they somehow can figure out that doesn't prove Ron Paul is full of the win, Michele Bachmann gets the loudest cheers from the crowd during the vaccine debate- Michele Bachmann is full of the "win".

88 But what I want to know is what ever happened to that Miss Universe chick what was missing her panties

89

Just to re state, Perry has called for more Border Patrol Agents, Predator Drones on the border, and troops on the border. And no Federal Immigration Reform until the border is secure.

Everyone else wants a fence.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 13, 2011 11:55 AM (kaOJx)

Without checking, I'm pretty sure you've not stated the full position of everyone else.

90 What's so bad about Grover from sesame street???

91

Hey, lets do the Dems work for them and destroy all OUR candidates ourselves, so the SCFOAMF gets that second term. Think how good you'll feel knowing you're not a racist.

 

92 The "it doesn't matter what your last name is" line resonates with independents with white guilt on this issue. But yeah, it doesn't play well in the primary.

93 79 There are also multi-agency intel cells working 24/7 along the border, collecting, coordinating and dispensing intel to appropriate agencies.

Posted by: Honey Badger at September 13, 2011 11:56 AM (GvYeG)

Yeah... like the DOJ and ATF and that Great Great Gunwalker program...

94 Damn. Is this funny or what?

95 It is an issue for every legal immigrant, like me, who stood in line, got all their paperwork done, went to work and payed taxes. When I went to school here I did not get any damn brakes for being legal.

I assume if you went to a state school from your home state, you did get a break on tuition.  In other words, you had that option, whether you took it or not.

Having a degree from a U.S. university is not going to make someone illegal suddenly legal... unless Obama gets a second term and he shoves through his Dream Act. 

Really, folks, this is simply about how much tuition the state of Texas chooses to charge to ~1% of their students.  That's all. 

96 I don't see any white knight. Perry's the best of what we've got to choose from.  There's no way any sort of amnesty/DREAM act passes a GOP-held Congress, and I'm willing to take the chance that a President Perry could be talked into a border fence/national enforcement/mandatory employer verification.

97 Here's why the needle on my give-a-shit meter doesn't budge for this issue: You're talking about how much tuition a student pays. Not that you're giving them FREE tuition. Someone overstaying their visa to pay to go to university is not high on my list of enforcement priorities. These are most likely not Paco the MS-13 member or Jose standing around outside Home Depot. Unless you can show me how many Mexicans are showing up on Registration Day at Texas A&M, with no English language skills, wearing track pants, shower shoes and with all their possesions tied up in a fucking lawn and leaf bag.

98 I have some honest questions to Romney supporters, including those "on the fence". If you are a conservative, wouldn't you want to align yourself with the candidate who is closest to conservatism? If you support Romney over Perry you are supporting someone with less conservative credentials. Think about it like this: would Massachusetts voters ever elect someone like Perry as their governor? Of course not. He's too conservative! These same people that voted to elect Ted Kennedy and John Kerry also chose Mitt Romney. You ever stop to think about why? Perhaps he was close enough to their values that they liked him? I look forward to any responses to this because I just can't wrap my head around wanting to support Romney.

99

Yeah, sorry.  I don't recall Perry calling anybody a bigot.  If it feels like he's calling you one, maybe that says more about you than it does about him. 

100 Aren't the States essentially compelled by Federal law to do this?

101 That "Ruins of Detroit" picture post in the sidebar is unreal.

The easily predictable outcome of six decades of uninterrupted liberal governance.

102 I don't understand why this is an issue.  The best way to stop illegals is to stop paying them to be here.  If they were unable to get welfare, food stamps, medical care, schooling,etc FREE, I doubt that so many would be here-and if they came anyway, they would not be such a drain on our economy.  Punishing their employers seems to just be a way to encourage them not to work.  Just stop rewarding them for being here.

103 95 ynot must you inject sanity into this heated discussion?//////

104
"[Obama’s] just too talented to do what ordinary people do.”

105 From DMN in March 2010:

During the fall semester, 12,138 students - about 1 percent of all Texas college students - benefited from the state law granting in-state tuition, according to the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board. Most of the immigrants among those students are illegal, and some others are not legal permanent residents or U.S. citizens.

Texas awarded about $33.6 million in state and institutional financial aid to those students between fall 2004 and summer 2008.

In 2001, Texas became the first state in the country to pass an in-state tuition law. The law created a national movement. Many private universities also now award aid to illegal immigrant students.

Now some of the students are graduating but unable to work legally as professionals. Julie, 29, who moved from Mexico to Austin at age 12, earned a degree in nursing from the University of Texas. She is unable to work, so instead she volunteers in Dallas.

"You have people here, and they're trained," said Julie, who did not want her last name used because of her immigration status. "The state has invested in us, so why not let us be contributing members of society and our community?"

-----------

Steady stream of volunteers.

106 I have to say, as much as illegal immigration concerns me, I don't see any serious flaws with Perry's policies on a national level, even if I disagree with this particular law in his state. 

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 11:52 AM (5H6zj)

Yep. Same here.

107 The "it doesn't matter what your last name is" line resonates with independents with white guilt on this issue. But yeah, it doesn't play well in the primary.

Posted by: brak at September 13, 2011 12:00 PM (6Pi39)

Plus, it's a cynically dishonest strawman gimmick. That, too.

108

Si Si puede amigo Ricki!  Muy bien.  Muchos gracias. Hijo de la Jesus. La Raza Unida! Viva Senor Perry.

Dial 1  para Espanol

Dial 2 para Engles

 

109 Don't worry, when money and jobs get scarce enough, the unions will have the Dems round them up and send them home.

110

 CJ at September 13, 2011 11:59 AM (9KqcB)

Did any of the other candidates mention anything else last night? Because all I heard was "FENCE FENCE FENCE".

Enlighten us then CJ.

111
Glenn Beck was just talking [mocking] about the above quote from Valerie "Alien Robot Girl" Jarrett.

112

I find it... interesting...

That we still have about 50K troops in Germany... defending them from... the Russians?

A bunch of Troops in Japan.

Troops in Egypt (on the Israli border, look it up... been there since like 73).

Troops in S. Korea...

And yet we do not have troops on OUR OWN F"N BORDER.... when by any reasonable metric, 10+ million people is either an Invasion, or a Migration...

I know we have a treaty with Mexico not to militarize the border... but what is Mexico going to do if we put troops there... but off our Foreign Aid?

113 @95 Well not exactly. This is now an issue of how Perry actually views illegal immigration. Doesn't matter how you got here? Doesn't matter what your last name is? I was prepared to accept his support of a Texas Dream Act limited to those whose parents brought them here illegally. Yet, Perry has now called me a bigot, or at least it feels like it. Just like George W. Bush did. That's not acceptable to me. Perry better clarify quickly.

114

It is an issue for every legal immigrant, like me, who stood in line, got all their paperwork done, went to work and payed taxes. When I went to school here I did not get any damn brakes for being legal. I am still paying out of my nose just to get my green card renewed and just had to lay out a shit load of money to apply for citizenship, even so my children are citizens and are active military. Why should I go rah rah rah for a governor who thinks this is not a problem, just so he can get the hispanic vote. At the same time you all bounce on Scoamf for doing the same thing. Double standard?

Posted by: Ma Bell at September 13, 2011 11:57 AM (H/MnC)

If you really think what Perry did and what SCOAMF/Dem Congress would do given their druthers on immigration is the "same thing," you're delusional.

115
here's the full quote from 2010:

“I think Barack knew that he had God-given talents that were extraordinary. He knows exactly how smart he is. … He knows how perceptive he is. He knows what a good reader of people he is. And he knows that he has the ability — the extraordinary, uncanny ability — to take a thousand different perspectives, digest them and make sense out of them, and I think that he has never really been challenged intellectually. … So what I sensed in him was not just a restless spirit but somebody with such extraordinary talents that had to be really taxed in order for him to be happy. … He’s been bored to death his whole life. He’s just too talented to do what ordinary people do.”

116 The problem is, no politician, including most conservative ones, seems to be able to grasp that there is a difference between Legal Immigrants and Illegal Invaders. Most of them seem to believe that our immigration laws were repealed in the 60's, or something.   It makes Perry sound like he thinks that  the Invaders' thumbing their noses at American laws is an admirable trait and should be rewarded.

This one reason why I haven't jumped in the Perry tank with everyone else.  Frankly, his comment (quoted by Ace, above ) is asinine. 

117 Posted by: Your Inner Voice at September 13, 2011 11:38 AM (ahORZ) Ah shit, my inner voice again. Look, I won't kill and skin squirrels no matter what you say. Do you hear me? Leave me alone!

118 Posted by: Ma Bell at September 13, 2011 11:57 AM (H/MnC) I'm in the same boat, waiting for my green card to get renewed as well. The immigration issue is one that I don't take lightly. I want all illegal immigrants to be deported, nothing less. That's where I stand. You didn't answer my next question: what effect, if any, will this have on a Perry Presidency?

119 36 Trans-Texas Highway(Super Highway) state property theft, anyone? I don't doubt that people like Perry (and Bush)were greatly encouraged by Kelo v New London, and haven't permanently given up those plans. PROPERTY OWNERS IN TEXAS BEWARE!!

Posted by: Your Inner Voice at September 13, 2011 11:46 AM (ahORZ)

Eh, he also lobbied for and signed into law senate bill 18:

"Provisions in the bill specify that taken property must be intended for public use, and that a property owner could buy back the land after 10 years if nothing is done with it. The House version of the bill gives the right to purchase the property at either the value of the land at the time it was targeted for seizure, or the current fair market value, whichever is less."

 

120 Damn. Is this funny or what?

Diane you are the most fortunate among!!! You need to show compassion and pay your fair share to the less fortunate.

121 I agree that the "doesn't matter what your last name sounds like" was a bad line.

He should've explained for what it is, rules for establishing residency requirements. It doesn't matter if you were born in Louisiana (Katrinia refugees, ya'll) or Mexico. You have to meet these requirements to be eligible for in-state tuition rates. The only difference is the citizenship affidavit.

If some kid was drug over here at age 3 and has lived here and attended Texas schools since that time, I've got no problem granting in-state tuition rates to them, as long as they seek to become a legal citizen of the country that nurtured them.

122
thank you, President Poverty, for digging the car out of the ditch...

1 in 6 people in the US live in poverty.

123 @99 Bullshit.

124 CJ- I like it!

125

Don't really think its such an issue for me, but Perry would have never had to decide on that if the feds were doing thier mandated duty.

126 I denounce my website ...

127 Really, folks, this is simply about how much tuition the state of Texas chooses to charge to ~1% of their students. That's all. You're talking about how much tuition a student pays. Not that you're giving them FREE tuition. Right, and if you read Andrew Ferguson's article where Perry has Po'D the tenured class he's been working hard to reduce the tuition from around $30,000 to $10,000. (Don't know if that is a fait accompli yet....)

128 I'm thinking along the same lines as Vitalis above.

This is nowhere near being a "DREAM" act.  It is simply an eligibility decision for in-state tuition.

Texas is ignoring the federal law in this case, and that bothers me.  But this is not "giving away" something to anyone.  The student still pays for tuition.  And the student must have lived in Texas for 3 years.

They are, in fact, Texas residents who happen to be in the USA illegally.

My problem is with the encouragement factor.  However, I don't think the idea that their kids will someday get to pay in-state tuition rates is a big factor in the mind of parents crossing the border illegally into this country.  I doubt if this eligibility law were cancelled if there would be one less illegal family coming to the USA and Texas.

129 The bigger problem with the Federal DREAM act is the education loophole is huge - signing up for a community college class or fly-by-night "trucking" school gets you defacto amnesty. That isn't part of this (and other State level DREAM Acts).

130
"Just give me the ball."

-Obama the magnificent

131

Texas is a big state, kinda like California, and both have huge illegal populations.  They both have oil and natural gas.  They both have great universities, reasearch facilities, medical facilities, and some pretty good businesses.  Now where would you want to live?  Look for a job? Raise a family?  Very simplistic, I know, but what are the majority of our fellow citizens looking for?

132 The whole "it doesn't matter what your last name sounds like" line is, I think, quite despicable. How disappointing.

133 Rush just said Huntsman and Ron Paul need to quit the Republican party, join the Dems, and run against Barky.

134

The border fence is a dumb idea. Its expensive and illegals will dig under it or go over it, or get smuggled in the old fashioned way.

Put the military on the border.

135
"“I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters. I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m gonna think I’m a better political director than my political director.”

After Obama’s first debate with McCain, on September 26th, Gaspard sent him an e-mail. “You are more clutch than Michael Jordan,” he wrote.

Obama replied, “Just give me the ball.” "

136 @Ben #6: http://tinyurl.com/4wu9sa Doesn't get much more "right" than this..

137

The Jooooooos did it ...

138
Pass this bill.

139 One more thing..  This tuition act, however, puts into question Perry's resolve to crack down hard on employers who hire illegal aliens.  Just as Bush did, Perry may well thumb his nose at the laws of the land and simply ignore the problem.

140
Just give me the ball.

141 Trans-Texas Highway(Super Highway) state property theft, anyone? I don't doubt that people like Perry (and Bush)were greatly encouraged by Kelo v New London, and haven't permanently given up those plans. PROPERTY OWNERS IN TEXAS BEWARE!!

Okay, this is getting old, fast, and is beyond asinine.

TTC is a road-building project.  To suggest that it wouldn't have been put forward except as some land-grabbing scheme is to suggest that the state has no right of imminent domain.  That is, that the state has no right to build roads, bridges, schools, etc.  Even if you believe that (yeah, right) you're in the minority in this country.

You can disagree with the TTC plan.  You can disagree with the idea it's needed (it is).  You can even disagree with the idea of making it a toll-road.  You cannot, however, claim that it would be an abuse of imminent domain- since that is specifically what imminent domain is used for.

As for the Texas DREAM act.  I live here.  Let me say it hasn't particularly hurt me or mine.  It is, in short, small potatoes.  What isn't small potatoes is border enforcement- something on which Rick Perry has been very, very strong.  No, he doesn't support "The Fence" because simple geography basically says it won't work.  He does support surveilance drones, extra boarder patrol and Natn'l Guard, etc. to secure the border.

Now, if we had a roaring economy and the border was secure might this be a deal breaker for me?  Yes.  Yes it would.  However, as it is, this isn't even on my Radar.  (Also: Those who are pointing out it was passed by a veto-proof margin, as requested by then Governor Bush, as Perry was taking over are quite correct.)

142 So which GOP candidates are not pandering to illegals/Hispanics?

143 Texas "Superhighway" shows how Perry feels in his heart about American sovereign soil.

144 134

The border fence is a dumb idea. Its expensive and illegals will dig under it or go over it, or get smuggled in the old fashioned way.

Put the military on the border.

Don't forget moats n gators.

145 Any more Bachmann supporters here? What do you make of her statements today on vaccines? *sorry I seem to be starting several topics at once*

146 speaking of glen beck...i am a gbtv member...and i watched his show yesterday....and while it was long...it was pretty good... along the same lines as his fox program but he isn't so frazzled trying to fit everything in the hour program....so if you are not a member consider it.....for the 9-11 segment he had bob beckwith on with other first responders.....

147
wow reading that above quote by Valerie "the mannequin" Jarrett makes me think of all of Obama's "extraordinary accomplishments

148 Texas is ignoring the federal law in this case, and that bothers me. 

Is Texas (and the dozen or so other states who have passed similar laws) really ignoring federal law?  Honestly, if so, what law is that?  If they are just saying you don't have to prove you were born in the US, how is that ignoring federal law?  I can see that if they don't verify status for something like on-campus employment that could be a federal violation, but I don't see how a tuition reduction is.

Also, aren't the feds actively stopping state and local agencies from deporting illegals and even checking illegals' status when they are arrested, etc? 

149 Really, folks, this is simply about how much tuition the state of Texas chooses to charge to ~1% of their students.  That's all. 

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:01 PM (5H6zj)

Wrong, because someone else has to pick up the slack. Do you really think these illegals pay anything. Once they get accepted at any State College you know damn well they get all sorts of state grants, which I didn't get cause I made too much money (reported dutyfully every year to the IRS)

Your blind devotion to Perry is really sweet but misplaced. Every candidate should be hammered with questions otherwise nothing will ever change

150

I don't understand how the property rights activists can piss and moan about immenent domain when building a highway but be all for it when it comes to taking at least 100 feet of someones property the length of their property line and cutting off their access to the river for a fence with bright lights on it.

As for instate tuition considering the fact that a state can't deport illegals is it better since you are stuck with them to have them educated and a contributing member or is it better to have them uneducated and unable to find a job or worse?

Simple fix which Perry isn't for either is a tamper proof ss card with high penalties for anyone who hires someone with out it. They will self deport.

151 146 vAxeeNs aInt' KnOw ProbLUm

152 Forcing vaccines on citizens shows how Perry feels about liberty of individuals versus the State.

153
Remember when Obama made a billion dollars in the private sector?

oh wait, no he didn't

The only money he made in the private sector was from the sale of his two shitty books that he didn't even write.

154

Don't forget moats n gators.

Ah be partial to high density mine fields meself. Makes for an entertaining infiltration.

155 *sigh*

Prioritize, folks.. Prioritize.

thatisall

156 Greta Van Susteren and her husband John Coale -who Sarah Palin hired to organize the SARAH PAC--they are Scientologists. Scientologists don't have a problem with flippin' vaccines-do they? (I can't keep all the various sects straight.)

157 I like moats and gators ...

158

Don't forget moats n gators.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 12:09 PM (UOM4

Damn. Forgot. I like to call the moat "Rio Grande" and the gators will be laser equipped.

As for these flaps, it seems that there's a deck chair on this Titanic called "Gardasil" that some just won't let go

159 I didn't interpret, "And the bottom line is it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is." the same way.  I really don't think this was a bad thing.  In border states, the mix of latin surnames is so common that we really don't notice the distinction that other areas of the country might.  It is akin to skin color blindness; it really is a testament to the melting pot here with Latin heritage American citizens.  With that said, I can now see how either my or your interpretation could be how it was meant.

160 Forcing vaccines on citizens shows how Perry feels about liberty of individuals versus the State.

Posted by: Your Inner Voice at September 13, 2011 12:11 PM (ahORZ)

Polio wishes you would have spoke up sooner.

161 moats, gators, high density mine fields .... and honey badgers

162
it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is. That is the American way



That is an hombre de paja.

163 tasker mccarthy is a scientologist.......iirc

164 Well Romney is a non starter. Foster Mom has not shown she is ready for a national campaign, so I'm going to take Ace's advice and temper my usual enthusiasm because of her electability issues OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS HORN GROWING OUT OF MY FACE!! I was supporting Cain be he fails to understand that a flat tax on business is biased like any income tax is biased, and going to a flat tax plan right now for individuals with the housing market and financial market on its knees would destroy the US.

Right now I like Santorum, but he has no chance right now.

Perry's record on DREAM and Gardisil I find deeply concerning. But still of the two front runners. I like Perry the most.

165 Really, folks, this is simply about how much tuition the state of Texas chooses to charge to ~1% of their students. That's all.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:01 PM (5H6zj)

Perspective is always good. But there is also the matter of principle.

166 Do you really think these illegals pay anything...

That puts them firmly in the majority of undergraduate college students.  66% receive financial aid in this country.

167 DREAM Act shows how Perry feels in his heart about taxpayers, Amnesty, and border sovereignty.

168 No president will risk putting the military on the border, and the sh*tstorm they'd face the first time US troops shot at a van full of pregnant mexican women because it was driven by an armed coyote.

169

Posted by: Your Inner Voice at September 13, 2011 12:11 PM (ahORZ)

Did you or did you not get vaccinated for school?  You or your children? Did the state crush your liberty?

170 Perry is sounding too much like GWB redux to me.

171 112 Romeo 13,

You can thank Jack Kennedy....in between "hide the PT-109" sessions with Marilyn Monroe and others he took the time to try to fix the Rio Grande dispute in El Paso in '63.

He informally allowed the notion that US troops would not be involved in border security to be pushed.  The use of armed active duty soldiers is in modern times thought to be a violation of Posse Comitatus.  I would make the argument that John Reno and Bill Clinton rendered that moot at Waco.

I denounce myself.

172 Plus, it's a cynically dishonest strawman gimmick. That, too.

Not at all like claiming someone wants to abolish Social Security.

Here's the deal- candidates get hyperbolic in debates (really on the whole campaign trail).  There's no reason to get the vapors over it.

I don't like the DREAM act, particularly, either- but it's small potatoes to me.

173 @#157 -  I think that's Christian Scientists.  The really devout ones believe that all medical problems can be cured by prayer.    Scientologists tend to think of themselves as "scientific" and "rational",  I believe.   They are also very litigious, so watch out.

174 Forcing vaccines on citizens shows how Perry feels about liberty of individuals versus the State.

Fantastic.  Let's be the Jenny McCarthy party on vaccines.  Great idea.

175 @171 This. The vaccination thingy and the SS hoopla are not factors for me. But Perry sounded just like W with his pathetic defense of the Dream Act.

176 Wrong, because someone else has to pick up the slack. Do you really think these illegals pay anything. Once they get accepted at any State College you know damn well they get all sorts of state grants, which I didn't get cause I made too much money (reported dutyfully every year to the IRS)

Much of the support illegals get is private, not state support in the form of scholarships. 

And, yes, someone picks up the slack - Texans do, as they do when they leave money on the table when they grant in state tuition to a Sooner, incidentally.  But Texans passed this law and, moreover, they have not chosen to overturn it (although it's my understanding they have modified it) during the entire decade it has existed.  

Again, it seems to me this is a state issue.  I disagree with the law, but I do not think it accelerates illegal immigration and a I do not think Perry is worse than any of the candidates (or potential candidates) we have going right now on national immigration issues. 

177

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:10 PM (5H6zj)

Its still a Felony to knowingly harbor, or assist, Illegals to stay in the country.  Law has never been changed.

This law, first checks their immigration/citzenship status to check for Instate Status, and if they DON'T have paperwork, ie cannot proove citizenship, then they are given a 'loophole' where they can submit an Statement saying they have been here.

The State of Texas, with this law, is knowingly HELPING, with State funds, people who are here illegaly.... and the only reason that Law exists, is to help those here illegaly.

Thus, Texas is, IMO, not following Federal Law.... but since the Law only means what Attorney Generals want it to mean... because they have 'discretion' as to which laws to enforce apparently... this will never hit any Court.

178 I would fully support a mandated vaccine against stupidity.

Fucking trolls.

179 @179 I'm afraid they could never produce enough.

180 Oh, and I meant to throw in to not confuse my previous comment as not being rabid on illegal aliens.  I HATE it, it is wrong on so many levels, and it is Perry's biggest negative.  There are U.S. Latinos though that hate it just as much, if not more so, since they don't like being lumped in with the border jumpers.

181
kids who were brought here as minors and are working on getting their status regularized seems like a fairly narrow class and a reasonable one to work with

I'll take this part. I've asked my mother from time to time, would you ever jeopardize your kids' future by dragging them to a country as illegals and hoping for the best? That's bad parenting right there.

We've got to quit rewarding this practice.

182 Minnie rodent Thanks. I have dyslexia and I mix those two up. oy.

183

As a Texas Resident, the point of "living in Texas for 3 years" was, in my mind, pointed to having in-state tuition costs. This policy isn't too different from thetypical in-state costs vs out-of-state cost for most universities, in that they require a certain time of residence in the state to have that rate.

Likewise, I know other people aren't used to illegals the way we are in Texas. (We're almost kind of numb to it.) For us, it's kind of a simple story. They're already here, their kids are in our public schools, they are often on welfare and aid, when they aren't their on state programs but, most importantly, they're not afraid to work. Access to education actually makes a huge differnce to the amount of people on state and federal welfare, on that. Given the chance, the rate of upward mobility shows the American dream is still alive and that education is a catalyst within it.

SO, I can't speak for what you guys think, but for me and most of the people I know down here, we're ok with this. I'd rather kids that have gone through our school system, that live here, that are pursuing citizenship go to college than to not. And, if they do, why shouldn't they pay in-state costs on that tuition? They typically have lived in state longer than people that come from other states to our schools and they're more likely to stay in state, work here and pay taxes. But, that's just me.

184 phoenixgirl I'm off to go google that. A lot of those actors are...

185 I'm quite certain no candidate will suit me 100%. Might Perry make me a little happier on illegal immigration than at present? Sure, but, I doubt he will. So, do I trust him on the issue more than Mitt or Obama? That's really the only question I need to answer. We don't have unlimited choices here.

186
"we can't kick out 11 million people"

We can, indirectly. Legally, they are both unemployable and ineligible for welfare. If we enforced that, they'd kick themselves out.

187 I wonder if Perry learned to coddle illegals from the Aga Khan?

188

Enlighten us then CJ.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 13, 2011 12:03 PM (kaOJx)

OK. Put some coffee on because this will take awhile. Oh, you mean about the GOP field? I will go out on a limb and say that the others also would not approve of "comprehensive immigration reform" without a secure border. I could be wrong, but I think that is standard GOP talk, post-Bush.

I can even understand Perry's political need to be moderate on this. I just don't appreciate the insinuation of bigotry on the part of the people whose votes he seeks.

189 I denounce myself.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 13, 2011 12:16 PM (AEIYh)

What I find interesing... there IS a provision in the Consitution, for a State Governor to call out their Guard in time of 'invasion', and then send a letter to the Feds asking for help...

Section 4 - Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Yet I don't know if any Governor has ever tried this tactic.

190 @186  Agreed.  And Perry's been dealing with this for years.  Plus, he is fighting Obama and the damn EPA.  Romney and Bachmann?  Not so much

191 Perspective is always good. But there is also the matter of principle.

Yes, but the principle is the following.  The law is about how Texans chose to allocate Texas resources.  That's it.

It has nothing to do with encouraging illegal immigration or flaunting the federal government's (non-existent, let's face it) efforts to combat illegal immigration.  It simply says that Texans are willing to foot the bill (size of which is really unclear to me, btw) for some college kids who are attending Texas universities. 

Will President Perry order the Department of Education to force universities across the country to do a similar thing?  Of course he won't.  In fact, I daresay that a President Perry would severely weaken the Dept of Ed.

192
SO, I can't speak for what you guys think, but for me and most of the people I know down here, we're ok with this.

You're okay with importing poverty? You're okay with rewarding illegal behavior? You're okay with deferring your tax dollars to citizens of Mexico instead of citizens of the United States?

We California conservatives sure aren't.

193

From the Kathleen McKinley link: "The GOP has for too long let the most extreme voices in the illegal immigration debate dictate what we DONÂ’T do to solve these problems."

Translated into reality: "The GOP has for too long ignored the overwhelming majority of Americans who maintain the fanciful notion that national sovereignty still matters, and that a country has the right to secure its borders and remove those here illegally. Ignoring the wishes of the majority has not only been immoral, but also an electoral blunder of extreme proportions."

 

194 Ron Pauuuuuuuuuuuulllllllll!!!!!!

195 Posted by: Your Inner Voice at September 13, 2011 12:14 PM (ahORZ)

No, it really doesn't.

I'd love for Perry to turn out Romney's answer on this one "It was passed by a veto-proof majority.  What, exactly, should I have done?  Vetoed the very first popular bill with which I disagreed that crossed my desk?  Yeah, that would have set up a successful run as Governor."

I don't like the answer (It's weak tea, in my mind), and I don't like DREAM act (though I'm not as virulently against it as many others here are), but to try to portray it as THE defining act of Perry re: Immigration is just stupid.

So far, he's the only one I've heard who advocates for strong border security and is honest enough to admit that a fence along our southern border just isn't going to work.  Much like Math, Geography is hard to deny.

196 We California conservatives sure aren't.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:24 PM (GXgac)

Yeah.... both of us... /smile...

197 The State of Texas, with this law, is knowingly HELPING, with State funds, people who are here illegaly.... and the only reason that Law exists, is to help those here illegaly.

Not really unless they are paying living expenses.  They are simply not collecting as much tuition as they could. 

198

Yeah.... both of us... /smile...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 13, 2011 12:25 PM

Tell me about it.

But I bet you're as "ok" with the California DREAM Act as I am.

199 I don't agree with Perry on this, but is it really worse than Romneycare? I am getting tired of the constant beat down of all things Perry. The others have plenty of 'splainin to do.

200 We California conservatives sure aren't.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:24 PM (GXgac)

Yeah.... both of us... /smile...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 13, 2011 12:25 PM (NtXW4)

Make that three.....giggles

201 Unless you can show me how many Mexicans are showing up on Registration Day at Texas A&M, with no English language skills, wearing track pants, shower shoes and with all their possesions tied up in a fucking lawn and leaf bag. Posted by: Empire of Jeff

LOL Jeff.  It's all a plot by Big Leafblower as you've stated on a previous thread.

202 Definition of a "F**king troll" at AoSHQ: Someone who brings up inconvenient but incontravertible truths about Rick Perry.

203 I'll take this part. I've asked my mother from time to time, would you ever jeopardize your kids' future by dragging them to a country as illegals and hoping for the best? That's bad parenting right there.

We've got to quit rewarding this practice.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:18 PM (GXgac)

Depends on what they are leaving. I'd say trying to get my kids out of a country with as many civilian deaths by violence daily as Mexico isn't bad parenting. How about the Vietnamese and Cambodian boat people?

204 We can, indirectly. Legally, they are both unemployable and ineligible for welfare. If we enforced that, they'd kick themselves out. You can't. Because "enforcing that" is too big a job, and you're still not addressing the underlying issue, which is the common-sense human response to perverse incentives. Mexicans aren't doing the jobs Americans won't do. Mexicans are doing the jobs that Americans are PAID not to do. You want to dry up the job market for illegals? Cut Unemplyment Benefits from 99 weeks to eight. Period.

205 We can, indirectly. Legally, they are both unemployable and ineligible for welfare. If we enforced that, they'd kick themselves out.

Yeah, but we don't- and that's largely at the Federal level.  Given that we don't, and given that they're going to be here anyway, what is the specific harm caused by acknowledging that they should be eligible for in-state tuition?

And, no, "principle" is not a good enough answer- I want your specific principle that says Texas allowing minor children of illegal immigrants to have in-state tuition is bad -in light of the fact that the Federal Government is refusing to do anything about the tide of illegal immigrants, to the point of hampering state's attempts to do something themselves.

206

Plus, it's a cynically dishonest strawman gimmick. That, too.

*Not at all like claiming someone wants to abolish Social Security.*

Romney, as cynical as his attacks were, didn't resort to calling me a bigot. So, in that regard, the two are not at all the same.

207 Its still a Felony to knowingly harbor, or assist, Illegals to stay in the country.  Law has never been changed.

Incidentally, can you cite US Code?  Because it seems to me the entire beef Perry has had with the Feds is that they are not enforcing federal law as it is now.  So if the feds won't enforce the laws, how is providing reduced tuition rising to the level of harboring or assisting illegals to stay in this country.  Tuition is a voluntary expense, not a basic need. 

208 Definition of a "F**king troll" at AoSHQ: Someone who brings up inconvenient but incontravertible truths about Rick Perry.


Wrong again, douche.

Fucking troll: Someone who cut and pastes opposition talking points about a candidate.

Isn't time for you to log in at Prison Planet or something?

209
It has nothing to do with encouraging illegal immigration

It has everything to do with it. If I know I can illegally drag my kids across the border and American taxpayers will reward me in the long run, of course I'll do it. I'll also vote for every Democrat who tolerates my lawbreaking.

210 Romney, as cynical as his attacks were, didn't resort to calling me a bigot. So, in that regard, the two are not at all the same.

Really?  I think he's calling me a granny killer. 

211 Perry Sucks ... Huntsman/Obama 2012!

212 On the Anarchist-Fascist scale i'm closer to Fascist, so the vaccine stuff don't blow my pants away. But the illegals problem shows Perry has issues with the rule of law. Illegals are illegal. They shouldn't be assisted by state resources and taxpayer dough to do their illegal stuff. But I guess he knows what he's doing. Hispandering is a good way (maybe the best anyone can think of) to beat Al Burraq, and Rick may already be campaigning for the generals.

213 The Texas Dream Act, in and of itself, is not a dealbreaker for me. It's Perry's "defense" of the act that is revolting and has now raised valid questions about his approach to the illegal immigration issue above and beyond Texas law.

214 Let me also bring up one other factor concerning illegals..

I read recently (probably a sidebar link) that there are as many as 4.5 million people here who have simply "overstayed" their visas.

I'm betting it's higher than that.

http://tli.tl/Q52CwQ

We issue visas to nearly everyone!  66% of Haitians who applied for visas were granted them.  Who the fuck thinks they are going to back to an AIDS infested country where $2 per day is a good salary?  They are going to stay here.

Many of these non-Hispanic overstays have taken over whole industries.  Here in Chicago, roofing crews are made up mostly of eastern Europeans.  Many Russian and Lithuanian women work in retail.  Polish women compete with their Mexican counterparts for home cleaning services.  My daughters treated my wife to a maid service for her birthday and the woman could not speak a word of English.

We need a president who will be committed to cracking down on who comes into this country, and who is working.  Tamper-proof ID?  Definitely.  If you think it violates some rights of yours, fuck you.. deal with it, or live with the millions of illegals.

215 Not really unless they are paying living expenses. They are simply not collecting as much tuition as they could.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:26 PM (5H6zj)

Ahhh... Government speak... its not really helping them if we make it possible, and Cheaper to go to College.

You do realize this also helped them get INTO College?  Because it creates a loophole whereby they do not have to proove where they are from?

And by being IN College... they then get access to Grants, and Scholarships?  becaue those programs figure that since you are already IN College, they have done their due diligence as to whether you are legal?

Tell me... if there was NOT illegals... would this law even EXIST?  If not... if it is in place specificly because of illegals... is this not knowingly aiding THEM?

216 204 my kids couldn't get into school in az without vaccination records AND A BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!! and even though the middle school is in the same school district as the elementary school......i had to provide it again for middle school.....AND when the two older ones went to high school...I HAD TO PROVIDE EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN!!!! LOL! and when my oldest went to get his driving permit....i had to dig out the old birth certificate AGAIN!!!!! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

217 Romney, as cynical as his attacks were, didn't resort to calling me a bigot. So, in that regard, the two are not at all the same.

You're right.  One is political hyperbole which is not directed at anyone specific, but rather a stereotype which exists (fairly or unfairly).  The other is a deliberate attempt to misstate a candidates actual position on a very important issue to the detriment of that candidate should he win the nomination in the end.

Which one do you think I find more outrageously outrageous?

218 This and his stuttering bobbleheadedness last evening makes him a non-starter for me.

219 God you're such a racist, Drew. Just because someone's name is Manuel, you want to deny them an education. Fuck, dude, how do you sleep with yourself?

220 Bachmann: These big pharmaceutical companies.

How about these big pharmaceutical companies that have saved untold millions of lives?  Yes, they have made profits but the profits are also plowed into new and expensive research.

The vaccine deniers need to grow up.  Even the people who live across the border in TJ know enough to get their children vaccinated.  We don't turn anyone away.  What purpose does it serve to put public health at risk?  It's the wealthy, so called educated that are the ones who are the anti-vaccine crowd.  They are also the ones that scream the loudest when their child develops a disease that could have been prevented by a vaccine.

221
what is the specific harm caused by acknowledging that they should be eligible for in-state tuition?

Stop right there. I acknowledge no such thing. Mexican citizens who are in America illegally should not be absorbing benefits that belong to legal residents.

222 You do realize this also helped them get INTO College?  Because it creates a loophole whereby they do not have to proove where they are from?
-----

How do you think Frenchies get into college? 

Seriously, do you think only US citizens go to US colleges? 

223

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:30 PM (5H6zj)

Just got a work call... I'll find it for you later.... but it is out there...

224 223 AMEN! AMEN!

225 Whats the big deal about martians going to scholl in Texas?

226

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:23 PM (5H6zj)

I never thought Perry would take his policy nationwide as president. It just illustrates a fundamental difference I have with him on one of the most fundamental issue of any nation: citizenship.

I realize our choice will likely be Perry or Romney. And I realize Perry is still the more conservative, principled choice overall.

227 Tell me... if there was NOT illegals... would this law even EXIST?

Yes.  Much of the language is actually pointed at legal aliens and creating a residency "zone" around Texas (OK, LA, NM, AR, I think, or at least some counties within each of those states).

228
You want to dry up the job market for illegals? Cut Unemplyment Benefits from 99 weeks to eight. Period.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 12:29 PM

Okay, then we can indirectly kick out 11 million -- or at least 10 million.

229 Tell me... if there was NOT illegals... would this law even EXIST?  If not... if it is in place specificly because of illegals... is this not knowingly aiding THEM?

Yes, I think it would.  My reading of it is that it was a regional approach to granting in state tuition to non-Texans.  IIRC, a legal Mexican immigrant (non-resident alien) can also benefit from this law.  Sooners can benefit from it. 

230 Tell me... if there was NOT illegals... would this law even EXIST?


Yes. It establishes residency requirements for in-state tuition. For everyone.

231 197 Three of us.

232 "It's Perry's "defense" of the act that is revolting and has now raised valid questions about his approach to the illegal immigration issue above and beyond Texas law." Precisely.

233 i don't often say this, but - right on Drew!

234 You know what the problem really is?  Most of the people on the street here in San Diego are waiting for Binder & Binder to secure their benefits so they can drink and use drugs all day long.

I actually overheard one of the great unwashed say that one day as he was standing in line waiting for his free lunch.  I shit you not.   

235 I wonder if Ron Paul is an alien ... from Uranus perhaps?

236 Folks, I really do understand the sensitivity on this illegals issue. I disagree with the law.  But I simply do not think that this stupid tuition law means Perry will be an open borders president.  And I certainly don't think Romney would be better.  Pointing to one thing Romney did in lilly white Massachusetts does not impress me much. 

237

Depends on what they are leaving. I'd say trying to get my kids out of a country with as many civilian deaths by violence daily as Mexico isn't bad parenting. How about the Vietnamese and Cambodian boat people?

Posted by: long toss at September 13, 2011 12:28 PM

Yeah, well, plenty of them are plain economic refugees. I don't think America should be the safety net for lousy societies. They'll never reform if we're always here to catch their asses.

238 Mexican citizens who are in America illegally should not be absorbing benefits that belong to legal residents.

What "benefit?"  Paying less money is now a benefit?  This from the party of "keeping more of my money doesn't cost the government anything?"

Consistency, please.

If this allowed illegal aliens who came over of their on volition to get in-state tuition, I'd have much more of a problem with it.  It doesn't.  It's aimed at kids who were brought here by their parents as minors.

Now, you can still say they're illegal- and you're right.  You can say they should be forced to "go to the back of the line" and I'd agree with with you.  You cannot say that simply forking less money over is "absorbing" a benefit which "belong to legal residents."

So, again: name me the principle which says- Given that they're here, they're minors, and the Federal Government isn't going to do anything about them anyway- they shouldn't have in-state tuition.

239 Perry is Soft on Sooners!!!!

240 Texas governor who has trouble with the talky-explainy thing? Eh. Pass.

241 Really? I think he's calling me a granny killer.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:31 PM (5H6zj)

Well, the violent crime rate among grannys, though still a concern, is a tiny fraction of that of illegal immigrants. So a politician riling them up doesn't mean as much.

242 Is Jim DeMint still around?

243 AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls

You are a fucking asshole aren't you?

244
197 Three of us.
Posted by: SurferDoc at September 13, 2011 12:38 PM

Hey! Wanna go to Disneyland on September 24? You too, Romeo13? Little band of us are forming a D-land meetup that day.

245 I hate to be the one to break it to you.. The bitter pill, we'll have to swallow.

Amnesty is going to happen.. There's no way to stop it.. There's nothing you can do to prevent it.. That's just the plain, simple fact of the matter.

As much as I hate the idea, I've resigned myself to it.. No politician is going to start shoveling Illegal Aliens back across the border en masse.. As much as we'd like that to happen.

The sooner you resign yourselves to this reality, the better off we'll all be.

Unless, you want to end up with another four years of the intentional destruction of this country.

McCain got his ass kicked in the last presidential election over this issue.

Are we going to make THAT mistake again?

246 The biggest problem with Perry right now, is that he doesn't seem to be "all in" for the Presidential run.  He still has the Governorship to fall back on. 

So his immigration positions are Texas-centric. 

He must choose.

247 I missed the debate last night.  I agree that answer from Perry is terrible.  It actually makes my stomach turn. He's implying that if you don't support in-state tuition for illegals, then you just might be kinda racist.  Unacceptable.  I'll vote for Perry if he is nominated, but until then I'm 100% in support of Romney.

248 30 years ago, when RR had the first Amensty, there were an admitted 10-20 million illegals in the USA. 30 years later, thousands a day coming across the border and the claim is still 10-20 million illegals here, BULL SHIT! There are times when you cannot order a coffee from McDonalds because none at the one in Katy, TX speaks English!

249 You know how to stop illegal immigration? Start highlighting the fact that 99.9% of these people are dead-set against gay marriage.

250 Posted by: Just Ssay No To Grand Bargains at September 13, 2011 12:43 PM (EL+OC)

I'm one of the nicest people you'll ever meet, quite frankly.

251

Which one do you think I find more outrageously outrageous?

Honestly? The one that theatens to worsen race relations. Always. The one that will make it even harder for one of the two major political parties to compete in the heralded Latino wave washing over the electoral process. That one.

252 I missed the debate last night.  I agree that answer from Perry is terrible.  It actually makes my stomach turn. He's implying that if you don't support in-state tuition for illegals, then you just might be kinda racist.  Unacceptable.  I'll vote for Perry if he is nominated, but until then I'm 100% in support of Romney.

Posted by: Donny at September 13, 2011 12:44 PM (b68Df)

Does Romneycare cover illegals?

253 I'm nice too ...

254 Start highlighting the fact that 99.9% of these people are dead-set against gay marriage.

LOL.

I like that one.

255

Wow, you Perry-bots don't get it all. 

Your candidate is the frontrunner.  He. is. in.  Bachman and Romney are also rans.  Palin is a never-ran.  Santorum and Cain and wossname, Ron Paul, are negligible.  Barring a disaster, Perry is going to be the GOP candidate and the next President of the United States.

And yet, instead of trying to make him the best candidate possible, holding his feet to the fire on his failings, y'all are making excuses, reciting Dem talking points on the border fence and immigration, cheering on his political stumbles, and ignoring Perry's problems by pointing to hasbeen candidate Romney's issues.  Just like Obama who responds to every criticism by arguing that Bush is bad too.

Bush would have been a far better president if half of his base hadn't been reflexive apologists and defenders of everything he did, and y'all are gearing up to do the exact same thing.   Stop treating the Presidency like it were American Idol or college football, rah, rah, go team.  Idiots. With voters like you, America continues to get the government it deserves.

256 Definition of a "F**king troll" at AoSHQ: Someone who brings up inconvenient but incontravertible truths about Rick Perry.

Making proclamations about how someone you don't know "feels" on an issue is far from "incontravertible truth" in the real world we like to call it "conjecture". If you actually knew him well it might graduate up to "opinion".

That's how we know you are a troll. You spout out talking points whose validity is highly debatable, and claim they are incontrovertible and we just have to accept them. That's what trolls do. When you fancy yourself a super hero I bet a big ^V is on your chest.

257 Honestly? The one that theatens to worsen race relations. Always.

Well, if Romney turns the senior vote away from any GOP candidate with the honesty to state that SS is a fraudulent, unworkable scheme, then we will see four more years of Obama.  So to me that's much more dangerous than a few riots you apparently believe Perry's comment will provoke. 

258 Romneycare and good hair. I like it!

259 Honestly? The one that theatens to worsen race relations. Always.

Well, I could be Democrat Level jerk-off and say "Well, then, we'd better vote for Perry, hadn't we?"  But I won't.

I'll just point out, again, that everyone makes hyperbolic statements in debates and on the campaign trail.  I'm honestly not even all that outraged by Romney's mischaracterization of Perry's position on SS.  It should be expected by the Perry camp, already.

And, yes, I'm a little disappointed that he "went there" with this answer (I already said it was weak-tea), but I just can't find any outrage in my soul over it.

Maybe if I'd heard it live it would be different, but I didn't.  Just reading it, it gets a definite "meh."

Besides, I'm far too busy being outraged at Barack Obama, who is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

260 246 A So-Cal meetup for conservatives is a great idea. Sept 24 is a bit soon for my schedule.

261

<i>if Romney turns the senior vote away from any GOP candidate with the honesty to state that SS is a fraudulent, unworkable scheme</i>

Romney and Perry have been working in tandem to lose the senior vote, Perry by saying impolitic, scary things and Romney by highlighting it and exaggerating it.  Romney's a desperate hasbeen, but Perry could easily cut the ground under his feet by modifying his Ponzi scheme remark and talking about saving Social Security with reform instead of using inflammatory redmeat language about fraud that political infants like you enjoy.  This one is mostly on Perry, with notable assists from Romney and Bachmann.

262 Definition of a "f^^king troll" on AoSHQ is: Anyone pointing out Perry flaws.

263 Obama/Huntsman 2012!!!!!!!

264 20 million aliens ... that's a lot of spaceships to round up ...

We need Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith.

Didn't they start to self-deport in MiB from fear of the Bug!

265 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (8y9MW) You know what would make me LOL? Seeing a photoshop of that picture of Obama in college in that hat smoking a joint leaning against the desk in the Oval office.

266

From McKinley's link:

These are a few things you need to know about the Texas Dream Act. The child has to have lived in Texas the three years leading up to high school graduation. These students are given no special treatment in getting into Texas colleges and universities. They must get in on their own merit. They are paying the tuition (with or without financial aid). ItÂ’s estimated that these students make up about1% of those entering college.

I agree that this is Rick Perry's weakest link for conservatives. Thanks, Drew, for the link to McKinley. This makes sense to me in that the tuition is not paid for and does not lead to blanket amnesty as the national Dream Act would have.

Rick Perry has always said illegals need to be stopped at the border by armed National Guard, and those here illgally need to get to the back of the line to enter.

This is not a deal-breaker for me. If the primary were held today in Florida my vote would go to Rick Perry.

That said, he needs to no longer fade halfway into the debate and he needs to have clear answers to the issues that weigh down his chances. He needs to be better prepared to fight, for as long as he tops the polls he will have to answer the top few questions on SS, HPV (which is so stupid at this point) and the Texas Dream Act. By the way, the McKinley article states there were no NO votes in Congress on the Dream Act. States Rights.

267 Lets go out and find another Juan Amnesty McVain to nominate while we're at it. The base hasn't had enough RINO yet.

268

Hey, remember yesterday when Rick Perry was fully vetted?

269 257 - Thank you, thank you, thank you. And they complain about the Palinistas. I like Perry but what's up with this? Make him work for us.

270 I'm still amazed that you guys can come up with better responses to challenges of Perry's record than he or his paid team can.

The Perry defenders are treating him like a brain-damaged kid with a protective helmet. 

Second debate in a row where Perry and his team couldn't come up with a way to control the narrative on perfectly predictable lines of attack.  Supposedly this guy is the one to beat Obama and his band of merry liars?  Good luck with that, chief.

And the Sarah fans are the delusional ones.  Riiiight.

271 Does the Governor not know that illegal immigrants aren't eligible for welfare?

The law is only a technicality.

272

As a former Sarah fan, I haven't said that her fans are delusional. I did say her appearance on Greta last night was vomit inducing. Like totally ...

273 Perry isn't even CLOSE to vetted yet. He thinks skipping the process everybody else went through was a smart move? We'll see...

274 I like '63 vettes.  Perry vettes, not so much.  Aint it grand?

275 I am willing to give everyone but Huntsman and Paul the benefit of the doubt moving forward. I'll take any of them over Obama. The vitriol today is a bit hyperbolic.

276 So to me that's much more dangerous than a few riots you apparently believe Perry's comment will provoke.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (5H6zj)

The 'granny violence' thing was a joke. Perry's comment was real racial politics. Mild by comparison, but not appealing coming from our side. With America's changing demographics, racial politics is a dangerous game. More dangerous that any one politician.

277

Honey Badger,

 

Palin had to go there, after Bachmann made the accusation.  PalinÂ’s whole political persona is built around fighting “crony capitalism” and being willing to call out her own party. 

278

I have some honest questions to Romney supporters, including those "on the fence". If you are a conservative, wouldn't you want to align yourself with the candidate who is closest to conservatism?
If you support Romney over Perry you are supporting someone with less conservative credentials.
Think about it like this: would Massachusetts voters ever elect someone like Perry as their governor? Of course not. He's too conservative!
These same people that voted to elect Ted Kennedy and John Kerry also chose Mitt Romney. You ever stop to think about why? Perhaps he was close enough to their values that they liked him?
I look forward to any responses to this because I just can't wrap my head around wanting to support Romney.

Romney isn't an immigration policy nightmare like Rick Perry.

Romney never supported anything like the Trans Texas Corridor, which would have been an eminent domain induced monstrosity.

Romney has a strong business and economic background, which is the sort we especially need at this time.

I don't consider Rick Perry to be "my kind of conservative".  Of course Romney doesn't fit that description either.  However, the implication by Perry of racism among those who would oppose his illegal alien support is a deal breaker for me.  I've never heard Romney use that sort of language.

And yes, I do cut Romney some...not a lot...but some slack for being Governor of a deep blue state.

Finally, Romney hasn't been so unwise as to give Obama a killer ad to run in the general election scaring old people in Florida.  He's a more electable candidate IMHO.

Romney/Rubio is my pick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

279

<i>Rick Perry has always said illegals need to be stopped at the border by armed National Guard</i>

The Obama/Napolitana position on opposing an border fence

 

<i>and those here illgally need to get to the back of the line to enter</i>

The McCain-Bush-Ted Kennedy amnesty position.

 

Nice.

 

280

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 12:51 PM (8y9MW)

I just don't want Perry to get into the habit. And I want to vote for him.

281 279 I don't mean the whole crony thing, although she does seem to think she invented it. It is gutless to sit back and take shots at everyone, when she won't even commit and get in the battle herself. It is no longer coy. It appears cowardly and childish. That interview with Greta was a joke. This woman ran a state? WTF happened? I WAS a huge fan.

282

#280

Someone is still trying to defend Romney at this point?  :0

Hey, Perry fanboys, I think you're idiots, but at least I think you're worth arguing with.

283 RomneyCare: the model for ObamaCare. That alone, all of the other bad stuff aside, is all anyone needs to know about Romney, period.

284 Juan Amnesty McVain was "what happened" to Palin. Everything after her loss as VP is anti-climax.

285
Despite the all the Texas pride, there's no special requirements for Texas citizenship.

Actually, in the context of being able to receive in-state as opposed to out of state tuition rates, there are special requirements. As I recall, it took me about two or three years living in Texas  to be eligible for in-state rates. The requirements are  more than just establishing a normal residency (local address, switching your voters registration, car, drivers license and so on).

Of course, my first semester at A&M, courses were a whopping $4/credit hour in-state, and a mindnumbing $16/credit hour out of state.

As long as Perry is willing to enforce the laws currently on the books - unlike a certain Stuttering Clusterfuck of a Miserable Failure - I'm willing to let him be off the reservation on illegals. So long as he understands that the body politic won't stand for any sort of blanket amnesty or even DREAM like acts.

286
And the Sarah fans are the delusional ones.  Riiiight.
Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 13, 2011 12:57 PM

Hear, hear.

287 Say, isn't Kathleen McKinley rightwingsparkle aka McCain's campaign aide on the internet? I think I'll pass on her analysis.

288
You're talking about how much tuition a student pays. Not that you're giving them FREE tuition.

Someone overstaying their visa to pay to go to university is not high on my list of enforcement priorities. These are most likely not Paco the MS-13 member or Jose standing around outside Home Depot.

Unless you can show me how many Mexicans are showing up on Registration Day at Texas A&M, with no English language skills, wearing track pants, shower shoes and with all their possesions tied up in a fucking lawn and leaf bag.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 12:01 PM

--------------------------

First of all, that lower tuition represents a subsidy -- it's the free part.

Oh don't worry, I ain't saying shoeless illiterates are showing up at Texas A&M -- but they are showing up at the voting booth. And no matter how many Republican-sponsored DREAM Acts and Spanish-speaking Jeb Bushes you throw at them, they're voting Democrat.

289  I don't think America should be the safety net for lousy societies. They'll never reform if we're always here to catch their asses.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:41 PM (GXgac)

Your point was that is is bad parenting to go from a known enviorment to an unknown enviorment without having all the necessary paperwork completed. My point was that I don't think that is always the case. Refugee camps outside Libya may be a good example. Trying to keep one's child alive is probably not an example of bad parenting, regardless of legal barriers.

290

Can someone verify that Perry really supports a 'back of the line' amnesty?  If so, that's even worse than I thought.

Numbers USA, which is the most reliable source, only says that he's a squish on the amnesty issue.

http://tinyurl.com/42h45s9

It says he's against E-Verify, though, which is probably worse in my book.

291 Sponsorship of illegals, in ANY way, with taxpayer monies is a deal-breaker to me now no less than it was three years ago. Period. Countries that vote away their boarders WILL cease to exist.

292

It says he's against E-Verify, though, which is probably worse in my book.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (epBek)

It has been my impression that  E-verify is based on documents which may or not be legal, i.e., it is vulnerable to identity theft input, and that was the reason for Perry's skepticism. I could be wrong on that.

293 If something can't go on forever...it won't.

294

How dare Rick Perry call me a racist for wanting a law abiding society!

Rick Perry believes everyone who opposes illegal immigration is a racist.

He said it didn't matter what your last name is, or how you got here (Texas, which is America) you will get instate tuition.

I don't care if someone is illegal and their last name is Jones, if they are not here legally they are not citizens and they can't get instate tuition!!!!

How dare he call me a racist for wanting a law abiding society!

It breaks all the laws of logic to give illegals (especially when they are no longer minors) a non-life sustaining benefit.

Rick Perry seems to think it is unAmerican to get Social Security but it is American to reward law breaking!!!!

This guy has a screw loose.

 

295 "I don't agree with Perry on this, but is it really worse than Romneycare? I am getting tired of the constant beat down of all things Perry. The others have plenty of 'splainin to do.

Posted by: DJ at September 13, 2011 12:27 PM (INVuk)"

Romneycare is only a problem for Romney because Obama made it a problem for Romney, and why would Obama do that do you think?

Romney did not come into MA promising healthcare.  The people of MA wanted it and Romney listened to them.  Romney tried to make it as conservative as he possibly could but in the end, did what the people of MA wanted him to do.  It was better and followed more market principles because of Romney, and it would have even been better if they hadn't changed everything after he left.

And the context of that was far far different than today.

Romney didn't force healthcare on any one.  He didn't sign anything in the middle of the night on Christmas Eve.  He did the opposite of what Obama did!!!

You and Obama try to paint Romney with Obamacare.  It was not the same situation at all.  The conservative groups that sang Romney's praises over it only changed their tune after what Obama did.  What happened to Romney in the conservative community is shameful!!!  They completely supported his plan at the time!  Then they abandoned him after the fiasco in DC.  It was shameful and does not reflect well on the movement.

Conservatives allowed Obama to make Romney a pariah in an attempt to keep him out of the Whitehouse.

Even Rush Limbaugh allows Obama to lead him around by the nose on this issue.  It is disgusting to watch.

296 But I simply do not think that this stupid tuition law means Perry will be an open borders president. 

Right.  And just disregard this old speech of mine.

297 If illegals are coming HERE "for a better life" it means they won't do it (create a better life at home) in the failed terrorist state from which they come (bringing in the culture of the bribe with them). They DO NOT bring with them the philosophy or culture bequeathed to us by the framers of OUR Constitution. They then vote illegally, or occasionally, legally, in the marxist revolutionary philosophy from which they originate. They don't just suck up tax dollars of legal citizens, they break the laws for which they have contempt, and they steal elections. That is every illegal, no matter what hell-hole they come from. And Perry, who suddenly has decided he has time to take on the hobby of running for President, and his country can't make it without him, endorses/approves of making breaking US immigration laws an acceptable thing and rewards it.

298 If you are a White male you need to get straight on one thing. Being a Straight White Male and a numerical minority makes you a fifth-class citizen at best, with very limited rights and no real ability to have the government defend you or defend yourself. No less than Eric Holder, first Black Attorney General, testified that Whites have no civil rights (New Black Panther Case) and that it was "an insult to my people" to suggest that Whites did have civil rights. And that further, Hate Crimes Legislation provided no protection for White men. NONE.

The current legal system, the result not just of Obama but of more than fifty years of limited rights for the White citizenry (particularly Straight White Males) and expanded rights for everyone else, is not going to be reversed anytime soon. Not for a hundred years at least. We could elect Michelle Bachman President and the legal system, judges, precedent, and federal/state/local bureaucracy would not change. That is set in concrete, it would take a very, very long time to change.

So if you don't want to be a fifth class citizen and a numerical minority (basically if you don't want to be a White man in Zimbabwe or South Africa) you better maintain your numerical supremacy. Because unless you have a spare billion floating around you're DEAD MEAT. Period.

So yeah, it sure as hell DOES MATTER what your LAST NAME SOUNDS LIKE. Seeing as how I cannot change my skin color, I have no desire to be both fifth class in rights and a numerical minority.

299

Very disappointing to hear. Perry was our top guy. Living in California and fearing our own governor is ready to sign the same Act, therefore stealing college seats from American citizens, I will not vote for Perry.

FYI - My husband heard first hand from a fireman fighting fires in Texas that these fires are largely expected to be started by the Mexican cartels who want to busy officials while they merrily bring over their deadly drugs. I wonder why this is not being reported.

300

Perry made a fool of himself over illegals.  Not just his lame explanation of in state tutition for illegals but why he can't build a fence, apparently he can fix the economy but can't figure out how a fence can be built.  Its so difficult you know, bless his little Aggie brain.

Only Romney comes across as more willing to perform mental gymnastics and twist reality.

 

If you loved Bush and McCain I can understand why'd you'd you would love these two crazy train riders.

301 The only part of the national DREAM Act I might be willing to consider would be military service.  It takes nothing to enroll for a couple of years in a community college and major in basket weaving or some kind of *Fill-in-the-blank* Studies these days.

But with military service, even in the easier branches, you must still put forth an effort to become a soldier.

302 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

303 Not just his lame explanation of in state tutition for illegals but why he can't build a fence, apparently he can fix the economy but can't figure out how a fence can be built.  Its so difficult you know, bless his little Aggie brain.
Posted by: Molon Labe at September 13, 2011 06:09 PM (S7K8x

Anyone who says that is someone who doesn't know anything about the TX/Mexico border. I'm not picking on you--even people who live in north Texas are ignorant of the border.

Romney (whom I like fairly well) wants to build a fence because he doesn't know anything about the area.

Seriously, the fence issue is a dead giveaway of who does and doesn't know anything about the border. Just open Google Earth, zoom way down on it, and realize that the border is right down the middle of that flash flood-prone river and its two large reservoirs.

304

FYI - My husband heard first hand from a fireman fighting fires in Texas that these fires are largely expected to be started by the Mexican cartels who want to busy officials while they merrily bring over their deadly drugs. I wonder why this is not being reported.

Posted by: chris at September 13, 2011 06:07 PM (1txht)

Maybe. the current large fires are nowhere near the border, so that seems kind of unlikely. Fires in S Tx have been set many times by illegals, by accident and on purpose, but these fires this month are in east and central TX. 

The 2 fires that torched part of our place in W TX in the spring were started by a train and by someone who was pulling hot wires out of an old building. That second one was one of the biggest fires in TX history.

It takes nothing to start a fire right now. Just parking on the grass can start a big fire now.

305

306

Stace:

That's nice to hear from an outlander pretending that God graced him with a Texas birthright.  If Perry couldn't fence the Texas border how does he plan to build the super Mexican highway link with Canada?

But as we all know building a highway is so much less complicated.  Seriously its a dead give away about someone who doesn't know anything about the Texas border or security matters.    It takes a real engineer and mental giant to build a structure that can't stand up to the problems that terrain dictate.  Are you a english major or was basket weaving your area of concentration?

Bless Ricky's heart. to top this all off Perry demonstrates his ignorance about fences by repeating the old cliche about building a 35 foot fence and illegals will buy 36 foot ladders, but then again this is what you expect from an Aggie.

306 First Ace with his guest worker program, now Drew supports some kind of Dream Act. Rock ribbed conservatives you are. "101 That "Ruins of Detroit" picture post in the sidebar is unreal. The easily predictable outcome of six decades of uninterrupted liberal governance." And a black majority. Dont miss the elephant in the room.

307 Molon, it's the federal government's job to enforce the border, not the state's, so that's the main reason Perry has not fenced it. The feds have fenced parts of it already, the easy parts. As president, the border would be his responsibility.

Between TX and Mexico, the border runs down the middle of the Rio Grande. Because of international treaty and massive periodic flooding, a fence cannot be built in the river. Therefor, it's built well north of the river, sometimes as far as a mile north. The feds have built some pieces with big ungated gaps in them so that people can get to their homes and so that emergency services can reach those homes. The gaps also allow people to access the river for their commercial purposes--irrigation, tourism, etc.

Private land has to be condemned for the fence, and that took the feds about a year to do just to build the little pieces they've built.

308 Wonder why Rick Perry didn't just say, "Hey, we can't deport anyone so we might as well educate them."

309 DrewM: Hardliner. Ha.

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311

Basically on immigration, he is indistinguishable from Grahmnesty.  There is no way for illegal aliens to apply for legal permanent residency, and in any event, if they do, that is not the same as citizenship.

His answers only increase distrust in politicians.  He is just another liar.