March 28, 2011
— Ace I had meant to link this with Rolling Stone's absurd attempt to connect this up somehow with Sarah Palin. (Maybe she taught Track to body-check too aggressively, zealously and that caused Morlock to...?)
Absurd bias aside, it's worth reading. At least Rolling Stone distinguishes itself from the rest of the media by deeming this newsworthy.
Early last year, after six hard months soldiering in Afghanistan, a group of American infantrymen reached a momentous decision: It was finally time to kill a haji.Among the men of Bravo Company, the notion of killing an Afghan civilian had been the subject of countless conversations, during lunchtime chats and late-night bull sessions. For weeks, they had weighed the ethics of bagging "savages" and debated the probability of getting caught. Some of them agonized over the idea; others were gung-ho from the start. But not long after the New Year, as winter descended on the arid plains of Kandahar Province, they agreed to stop talking and actually pull the trigger.
...While the officers of 3rd Platoon peeled off to talk to a village elder inside a compound, two soldiers walked away from the unit until they reached the far edge of the village. There, in a nearby poppy field, they began looking for someone to kill.
...
He was a smooth-faced kid, about 15 years old. Not much younger than they were: Morlock was 21, Holmes was 19. His name, they would later learn, was Gul Mudin, a common name in Afghanistan. He was wearing a little cap and a Western-style green jacket. He held nothing in his hand that could be interpreted as a weapon, not even a shovel. The expression on his face was welcoming. "He was not a threat," Morlock later confessed.
Morlock and Holmes called to him in Pashto as he walked toward them, ordering him to stop. The boy did as he was told. He stood still.
The soldiers knelt down behind a mud-brick wall. Then Morlock tossed a grenade toward Mudin, using the wall as cover. As the grenade exploded, he and Holmes opened fire, shooting the boy repeatedly at close range with an M4 carbine and a machine gun.
Mudin buckled, went down face first onto the ground. His cap toppled off. A pool of blood congealed by his head.
...
Back at the wall, soldiers arriving on the scene found the body and the bloodstains on the ground. Morlock and Holmes were crouched by the wall, looking excited. When a staff sergeant asked them what had happened, Morlock said the boy had been about to attack them with a grenade. "We had to shoot the guy," he said.
...
To identify the body, the soldiers fetched the village elder who had been speaking to the officers that morning. But by tragic coincidence, the elder turned out to be the father of the slain boy. His moment of grief-stricken recognition, when he saw his son lying in a pool of blood, was later recounted in the flat prose of an official Army report. "The father was very upset," the report noted.
The father's grief did nothing to interrupt the pumped-up mood that had broken out among the soldiers....
Then, in a break with protocol, the soldiers began taking photographs of themselves celebrating their kill. Holding a cigarette rakishly in one hand, Holmes posed for the camera with Mudin's bloody and half-naked corpse, grabbing the boy's head by the hair as if it were a trophy deer. Morlock made sure to get a similar memento.
No one seemed more pleased by the kill than Staff Sgt. Calvin Gibbs, the platoon's popular and hard-charging squad leader. "It was like another day at the office for him," one soldier recalls. Gibbs started "messing around with the kid," moving his arms and mouth and "acting like the kid was talking." Then, using a pair of razor-sharp medic's shears, he reportedly sliced off the dead boy's pinky finger and gave it to Holmes, as a trophy for killing his first Afghan.
Actually it's a little worse than that; a captain was suspicious, but took no action, and even ordered his staff sergeant to fire two bullets into the boy's body to make sure he was dead. I suppose to guarantee he was no longer a threat, but...
They were eventually caught because a fellow soldier, named, ironically, Stoner, got sick of them smoking hash around them and told them to find somewhere else to get stoned. They wound up beating Stoner badly ("snitches get stitches") and he blew the whistle on them in full.
The deal for Morlock was for 24 years, in exchange for his testimony against Gibbs, the squad leader.
And why did all of this happen? Seems like it was the unit's misfortune to have several inclined-to-psychopathic-behavior people in it, reinforcing each other's weird impulses, added to the horrible stress and doubt implicit in a war against terrorists masquerading as farmers:
By the time Gibbs arrived, morale in the Stryker Brigade had hit rock bottom. Only four months earlier, the unit had been deployed to Afghanistan amid a chorus of optimism about its eight-wheeled armored vehicles, a technological advancement that was supposed to move infantry to the battlefield more quickly and securely, enabling U.S. troops to better strike against the Taliban. By December, however, those hopes had dissolved. The Taliban had forced the Strykers off the roads simply by increasing the size and explosive force of their IEDs, and the brigade had suffered terrible casualties; one battalion had lost more soldiers in action than any since the start of the war. Gibbs, in fact, had been brought in after a squad leader had his legs blown off by an IED.
Posted by: Ace at
02:35 PM
| Comments (101)
Post contains 964 words, total size 6 kb.
That phrase doesn't actually make any freaking sense. You;d think after a decade of war, the "war reporters" could get a grip on basic terminology. Retards.
And not the cute, friendly kind like Trig.
Posted by: Holdfast at March 28, 2011 02:41 PM (Gzb30)
Wait a minute . . . Robert Gibbs just recently left the White House Press Secretary position and the Staff Sergeant is also named Gibbs . . . and Robert Gibbs worked for president Chocolate Dildo, as did, Staff Sgt. Gibbs . . .
Coincidence? I think not.
Posted by: Hey, this is fun!! at March 28, 2011 02:42 PM (Orc9J)
Posted by: The MFM at March 28, 2011 02:44 PM (4ZxEW)
Posted by: Color Me Surprised at March 28, 2011 06:40 PM (rTwsE)
Correct, Morons!
Posted by: Palin Steele at March 28, 2011 02:44 PM (6DDE+)
Posted by: momma at March 28, 2011 02:44 PM (penCf)
Posted by: ontherocks at March 28, 2011 02:46 PM (HBqDo)
If this is true, it is horrible. Just completly and utterly evil.
Posted by: MrShad at March 28, 2011 02:47 PM (Xqfwb)
Posted by: momma at March 28, 2011 06:44 PM (penCf)
Momma -- You are correct...this is all very poetic and waxes eloquent about these soldiers' actions. You're going to make me look for AG stories now!!!Posted by: Crabby Appleton at March 28, 2011 02:47 PM (6DDE+)
Pretty sure if the BLM mentions it at all, they will blame it on George Bush. Illegal wars, killbots, no other choice in a Bush-destroyed economy...halp us Jon Carry, blah blah blah.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 28, 2011 02:47 PM (0vDuM)
"Responsibility to Protect" - The End of National Sovereignty As We Know It?
Responsibility to Protect however INTENDS to police the world:
In September 2005, the United Nations General Assembly adopted a declaration - the World Summit Outcome - whereby each and every State in the world accepted its responsibility to protect populations from genocide, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing and war crimes. The declaration also emphasizes that if a State relinquishes its responsibility to protect – whether by will or lack of capacity - this responsibility must be borne by the international community that can decide to intervene as a last resort. In the face of mass atrocities, every nation and thus every people on earth have pledged to be our brothers’ keepers. Without fanfare and with little notice, the obsolete principles underlying the Westphalian ordering of world affairs have been dramatically rewritten. We can no longer hide behind State sovereignty, a 400-years old shield, to excuse the shameful reflex and ongoing practice of remaining passive in the face of the most outrageous behaviors... "We can no longer hide behind state sovereignty."
Okay, I'm off my soap box. Won't mention it again. It just really freaks me out. BTW, both links go to New Zeal so they are safe links. If BO says any of the key phrase in R2P doctrine, be Very afraid for Israel.
Posted by: momma at March 28, 2011 02:51 PM (penCf)
I would like to know more about how this happens.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 28, 2011 02:52 PM (0vDuM)
Wanna see my picture on the cover
Rolling Stone
Wanna buy five copies for my mother
Rolling Stone
Wanna see my smilin' face
On the cover of the Rolling Stone
Posted by: Jeremy Morlock at March 28, 2011 02:53 PM (xy9wk)
Posted by: Rod Rescueman at March 28, 2011 02:53 PM (QxGmu)
Exactly -- and the writing style/words used reflect that picture. The parallel to fraternity hazings (albeit far more evil) is pretty apt.
Posted by: Crabby Appleton at March 28, 2011 02:56 PM (6DDE+)
@4: "What is clear is that this is a case of "boys will be boys" and not the fault of the current administration. Whether it's the fault of the previous administration is something we'll be looking into, thoroughly."
Concur. The clown is down.
Posted by: Judge Roy Snyder at March 28, 2011 02:57 PM (xy9wk)
Posted by: UGAdawg at March 28, 2011 02:57 PM (/VjHB)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 28, 2011 03:00 PM (yQWNf)
I'm sure this has already been mentioned, so I'll just risk repeating it.
Since W, as Commander in Chief, was deemd responsible by the MFM for Abu Ghraib, Liar Obumblefuck is responsible for the actions of these soldiers.
Posted by: Marmo at March 28, 2011 03:00 PM (1KSBb)
Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 28, 2011 03:00 PM (h6mPj)
Posted by: UGAdawg at March 28, 2011 06:57 PM (/VjHB)
Agreed and the guilty members of the so-called Kill Team should face a firing squad.
Posted by: ErikW at March 28, 2011 03:01 PM (6D3WU)
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 03:01 PM (h+qn8)
Agreed and the guilty members of the so-called Kill Team should face a firing squad.
Posted by: ErikW at March 28, 2011 07:01 PM (6D3WU)
yes
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 03:02 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: LGoPs at March 28, 2011 03:02 PM (+Uv5V)
Posted by: lauren at March 28, 2011 03:03 PM (eUmIE)
Posted by: MSM at March 28, 2011 03:04 PM (mhmc7)
18 This.
What that team did was wrong, and they will be punished for it. However, there are things not mentioned which probably should be in order to gain the real truth...as the whole truth is not politically advantageous (probably for anyone) it will not be.
War isn't a tidy business, and sometimes people go off the rails. This war is incredibly untidy, and it's amazing that people have stayed within the lines as well as they have. Sometimes however, people go mad....to try and "sparkle up" their descent into darkness is pretty damn disgusting, and also leads people away from the truth.
I hate that damned rag Rolling Stone; what a bunch of damned pigs.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:06 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: LGoPs at March 28, 2011 03:06 PM (+Uv5V)
The articles about the Killing Team are written from the perpetrator's view (thus making it seem like they were driven to these evil actions.)
The stories about A. G. were written from the victims' perspective.
See?
Bush in WH - look at the victims (also did this with Katrina)
Obama In WH - look at the things that drove the people to do such evil (have we seen any stories about the victims in Japan? victims in Libya?)
Posted by: momma at March 28, 2011 03:06 PM (penCf)
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:07 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: Cherry π at March 28, 2011 03:08 PM (+sBB4)
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 03:08 PM (h+qn8)
A Late term abortion of a future taliban/al queada. I don't care as long as somebody other than American's get aborted.
Yup, Ima bad boy.
Posted by: HEP-T at March 28, 2011 03:09 PM (o35le)
and the brigade had suffered terrible casualties; one battalion had lost more soldiers in action than any since the start of the war.
Anyone besides me wonder if there was any fragging in this unit when they read this? Wonder if anyone before Stoner questioned what was going on. I hope they've investigated all the deaths within this unit.
This is just sickening.
Posted by: Mayday at March 28, 2011 03:10 PM (TRgli)
Posted by: LGoPs at March 28, 2011 07:02 PM (+Uv5V) LOL! Make it so! (if only)
Posted by: Marmo at March 28, 2011 03:10 PM (1KSBb)
35 Units can go off the rail -- in fact, it's easier for a group to do so than an individual. Individuals do dumb shit...groups go off the rail.
What they did was wrong, but they saw a lot of shit; probably best to leave it at that.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:11 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: Somebody at March 28, 2011 03:11 PM (b18IF)
Agreed and the guilty members of the so-called Kill Team should face a firing squad.
Posted by: ErikW at March 28, 2011 07:01 PM (6D3WU)
Hell yes. Shoot the wikileaks freak too. No excuse for this kind of behavior.
Posted by: CDR M at March 28, 2011 03:11 PM (Mv/2X)
Posted by: UGAdawg at March 28, 2011 03:11 PM (/VjHB)
Posted by: UGAdawg at March 28, 2011 03:14 PM (/VjHB)
Posted by: Great Mulatto Hope at March 28, 2011 03:15 PM (rTwsE)
Posted by: LGoPs at March 28, 2011 03:16 PM (+Uv5V)
Posted by: ontherocks at March 28, 2011 03:16 PM (HBqDo)
Considering some of the atrocities our troops have to witness on a near daily basis, I'm rather impressed that more have them have not busted their fuses. They've been fighting for a long time now, and this has been a real headfrak of a war (not as physically daunting as other wars we've had, but definitely emotionally draining)...they've been models of good behavior and professionalism all things considered.
But eventually everyone has their breaking point...our government hasn't exactly helped in alleviating that, and certainly not our media -- to say the least of the enemy.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:17 PM (5/yRG)
Wonder how much those kinder, gentler ROE had to do with increased deaths and drop in morale.
I don't know. I'm not being snarky. I really wonder.
Posted by: krakatoa at March 28, 2011 03:18 PM (a0Jhx)
Posted by: lauren at March 28, 2011 03:19 PM (eUmIE)
Posted by: UGAdawg at March 28, 2011 07:11 PM (/VjHB)
Yes but we have professional military forces that do a damn fine job. Any loose screws that get in the mix deserve no sympathy just because they made it past basic training.
Point is, we're better than this and if we're not, we should be better than this.
Posted by: ErikW at March 28, 2011 03:20 PM (6D3WU)
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 03:21 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:21 PM (5/yRG)
According to "early" reports, that guy had reported the squad's behavior to his dad (via mail), and some psychiatrist almost as soon as he got there. He allegedly participated in order not to be known as the snitch (or "narc", when I was in).
I have trouble, remembering back that far (late '60s) deciding what my response would have been understanding a wrong move or word could get me killed "accidentally" by the unit.
I say let this play out completely before condemning all involved to the death penalty.
Posted by: jwb7605 at March 28, 2011 03:22 PM (Qxe/p)
@28: "Why did this happen? Long unsuccessful war in a hell hole with strange people and strange cutoms. Unconventional warfare with rules of engagement that makes your personal survival iffy. Something breaks down and goes really wrong. Yeah, these guys were wrong but damn, they are victims too."
Yeah, we can totally understand that.
Posted by: Malmedy Massacre victims, shot by Eastern Front veterans at March 28, 2011 03:25 PM (xy9wk)
51 I never said "excuse"; I'm just saying "explain"...and perhaps understand. It could have been anybody, really -- and it is not something new, unique, or germaine to any group, place, or time.
Somebody said it above: what they did was terribly wrong, but they had some things happen to them that weren't too right either. Sometimes people look over into the abyss, and they don't come back.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:25 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 28, 2011 03:26 PM (yQWNf)
Posted by: Holden McGroin at March 28, 2011 03:26 PM (gt0bk)
Considering some of the atrocities our troops have to witness on a near daily basis, I'm rather impressed that more have them have not busted their fuses.
Same here. I can't imagine having to work amongst and defend people that have such completely different morals and values as we do. The way Muslim countries treat women, condone the sexual abuse of children, and where the culture is rampant with corruption - I don't know how our people do it. I have no faith in Zero's command of our military so I'm ready to bail us out of the business of risking American lives for these people.
Posted by: Mayday at March 28, 2011 03:26 PM (TRgli)
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 03:27 PM (h+qn8)
Let me start by stating that criminal behavior by military members is abhorant and should never happen, but in absence of uncompromising and forceful leadership, these type incidents will occur.
Questionable if not criminal behavior by aircrews in Vietnam was an infrequent or maybe infrequently reported event. In my experience, most aviator's took great pains to avoid civilian causalities, and in most circumstance when civil deaths or injuries occurred it was normally attributed to pilot error, or improper ground crew instructions as to location or position.
What is seldom discussed is the average age of the combatants, and the repetitive daily grind of watching friends and fellow warrior's maimed or killed. This loss of personnel has a debilitating effect on the mental state of the combatants, and some develop an attitude of stopping the carnage by killing the perceived opponents before they kill you.
These young men are living in the Wild West, and although their actions are criminally inspired and wrong, not only did they lose their way, but the leadership also lost its way by not being more directly involved in their lives. A good commander listens to the chatter and doesn't dismiss the signals of impending retribution.
Posted by: Fish the Impaler at March 28, 2011 03:27 PM (ZHsNw)
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 03:28 PM (h+qn8)
Not so much heartless as lawless & stupid.
It is easy to judge men when they admit to their crimes.
Posted by: krakatoa at March 28, 2011 03:29 PM (a0Jhx)
56 It isn't a case of giving them the benefit of the doubt; it isn't about being "honorable" or "dishonorable"...it just is (or was). Wasn't the first time, wasn't the last time.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:30 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: Holden McGroin at March 28, 2011 03:31 PM (gt0bk)
Posted by: momma at March 28, 2011 03:31 PM (penCf)
59 It's ok; it's probably very normal to react to things like this with a certain amount of horror and disgust...means you're a normal and good person.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:33 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 03:34 PM (5/yRG)
Fish, Stoner or the journalist?
Posted by: willow at March 28, 2011 07:33 PM (h+qn
Unfortunately both!
Posted by: Fish the Impaler at March 28, 2011 03:35 PM (ZHsNw)
Explain exactly which part of killing a 15-year-old boy is the part "they had to do", because I'm a bit fuzzy.
Posted by: AndrewR at March 28, 2011 03:37 PM (3z2tZ)
Posted by: D. Hopper at March 28, 2011 03:52 PM (qPTz0)
47- unknown jane: not as physically daunting as other wars we've had, but definitely emotionally draining
- No offense but you obviously don't know shit. Trying humping kunar province for 10 months with 70-80 pounds of shit
I love ace of spades but the comments here are really starting to agitate me. Comments of one less future taliban, these guys shouldn't go to trial, the long haul of the war was partial to causing this shit etc etc. Everybody shut the fuck! They committed murder. They should go to trial and get the chair. These guys were not vets that had numerous deployments and just cracked. It was a bunch of Cherries being led by a staff NCO that was a nut. Killing kids, women, and innocents is not something we do as infantryman. You act like a fucking professional and not some amature shit and committ murder. "Oh they faced death everyday so lets give a em a pass on killing kids!" fuck no they need to pay. I think most vets that read here will agree with me
Posted by: Marion "Cobra" Cobretti at March 28, 2011 03:54 PM (ko4DN)
Apparently we can call that "Monday" around here - seems the whole day has a peppering of idiots, new, old, or otherwise.
For the record, I'm against murdering and mutilating innocent third parties, no matter how bad your fucking hair day was.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 28, 2011 04:05 PM (bxiXv)
78 I'm very well aware of what the physical exhertions are like (to some extent) -- our troops are not bogged down in trench warfare or wading through maggot and body part riddled mud piles, going three days without any true rations (my dad lived on a couple of chocolate bars for a couple of days of very intense fighting, hip deep in rain water -- I haven't heard that our troops now were dealing with that sort of thing). That's not taking away from the physical aspects of the war our troops are fighting now; that's just pointing out a fact.
By the same token, I am making the point of trying to show that our troops are fighting a war right now in which the "us" and "them" and "innocent civilians" is perhaps the most vague of any of the wars we've fought. This is a lot more emotionally draining (I think at least) than having a more clear idea of who the bad guys really are and having a more clear cut direction on what exactly our guys are supposed to do with them. In some ways slogging through the trenches was "easier".
Perhaps I should have gone into more detail there; sorry for any misunderstandings.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 04:07 PM (5/yRG)
78 And I have to ask: do you know the unit or these soldiers yourself? If you don't, then how do you know for certain everything you say?
That's by way of excusing them, but it is trying to get to the bottom of this without jumping to an understanding that may be hasty.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 04:14 PM (5/yRG)
Ya roger unknown jane what you're saying but trench warfare, vietnam, afghanistan is still apples and oranges. I don't think you really understand some of the austere conditions infantryman lived in, in Iraq and especially afghanistan. I highly encourage you to read the book War or watch restrepo. Trust me there's a suck factor in Afghanistan in the remote areas that is on the level of vietnam, WW2 and Korea. I can name a few for you in Kunar... The Korengal had Firebase Vegas, the KOP, OP Restrepo, Pech had Able Main, Honaker/Miracle, etc North of Asadabad has Pyrtle-King and Bari-Ali. Like I said try doing a 3 day dismount patrol in the korengal (or anywhere) with little sleep humping a near vertical mountain with 14 m4 mags, grenades, water, body armor (with 2 plates), a LAW rocket or AT4, extra ammo for the machine gun teams, MREs, spare batteries for radios, etc. Then all of a sudden after doing that for 3 days straight you get hit in a near side ambush at 2 in the morning. I highly advice you do more research or talk to somebody that's been to Afghanistan or Iraq in a combart arms MOS. The only reason we haven't had vietnam level casualties in 10 years is superior medical technology, body armor, and the fact that our medevacs are generally fast
Posted by: Marion "Cobra" Cobretti at March 28, 2011 04:15 PM (ko4DN)
Posted by: Marion "Cobra" Cobretti at March 28, 2011 04:18 PM (ko4DN)
82 Marion, my husband served in Iraq and Somalia; a cousin was in Bosnia; I have two kids that will be going on their second deployments soon. And all of my closest male relatives have been vets of other wars (my dad was an extremely twitchy former Marine sniper who probably made a landing or two too many). I haven't had to hump a full pack in Kundar, but I've done ruck marches myself (ain't a lot of fun unless you're into being sore and sweating like a pig) and I also know that some things are just not completely fathomable, or so crazy and messed up sounding as to be unbelieveable, yet they happen.
And my kid knows people in 2ID and has told me a few things about the whole situation that the ever sterling Rolling Stone and other media sources seem to never talk about (and it pisses me off that they turn this sort of thing into some...circus parade shit when they do bother to write about anything; that's what gets to me the most). Yes, it does make things that much shittier for the rest. However, having had to deal with people who have been in shitty, shitty shit and understanding it a little, while I don't excuse (this is important), I understand how this sort of thing comes about. Some people just don't deal well with this stuff; some people lose it and lose it big...for a lot of different reasons. Trouble is, you don't know who those people are until you're actually there ...sometimes even if you yourself are one of those people (you know what I'm talking about, I'm sure of that).
So it happened, and now you go on -- some things just are; you try to learn from it and you above all deal with what comes after. That's it. I'm glad I live in a society that would be appalled, but then again I kinda wish it could just be left at it is what it is. Is that understandable to you?
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 04:47 PM (5/yRG)
Michael Yon, independent imbed with troops in Afghanistan for YEARS: this is from Yon's FaceBook page regarding the Rolling Stone article:
"
Posted by: krukke1 at March 28, 2011 04:51 PM (sB2mH)
Oh, and my kid brought Restrepo home on leave last -- glad it was made; not the most relaxing thing the family has ever watched. Would be interested in seeing that Armadillo movie...which is pretty foolish considering that one likely won't be a nice relaxing thing to watch either, makes me question my sanity really.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 04:51 PM (5/yRG)
Posted by: Sjg at March 28, 2011 05:05 PM (fEquj)
Posted by: F15mech at March 28, 2011 07:32 PM (RmkZh)
Posted by: The Drizzle at March 28, 2011 07:35 PM (ysCLj)
Posted by: The Drizzle at March 28, 2011 07:38 PM (ysCLj)
Posted by: Poland at March 28, 2011 08:02 PM (qDPnZ)
Posted by: Jack at March 28, 2011 08:10 PM (kCT7A)
Posted by: davod at March 29, 2011 02:18 AM (GUZAT)
Posted by: Aghast at March 29, 2011 04:26 AM (i0DCe)
Posted by: SFC MAC at March 29, 2011 05:11 AM (KDxa0)
Sorry to burst their PC bubble, but people, including civilians, die in war. Our current enemy doesn’t wear identifiable uniforms. They blend in with the population and screech “war crimes!” when you kill them and some non-combatants because they just so happen to be in the same village.
Our Soldiers are saddled with fucked up ROE, while the enemy kills carte blanche. Somehow I just can't muster up a whole lot of concern over this, especially given the double standards.
Posted by: SFC MAC at March 29, 2011 05:16 AM (KDxa0)
99 Thank you for your measured comments.
And F15 mech...if you really are in the military, you're full of shit. They'll get whatever punishment that comes their way, and deservedly so, but your reaction tells me that either you aren't really in...or you need to be on your way out. Nobody should enjoy putting down own of your own...even when they deserve it.
Posted by: unknown jane at March 29, 2011 05:29 AM (5/yRG)
Rolling Stoned is a totally unreliable source. I do my research with people that aren't leftist idiots. This can be verified through more reliable assets, which I did, and their actions are totally unexcusable. At least they didn't skate on murder.
And that turd who was whining about ROE...has nothing to do with the situation at hand if the unit has any real level of discipline. The Marines are saddled with that exact same set of ROE and they aren't going around randomly murdering civilians or smoking dope for something to do. Part of the blame is at the leadership level, and the basic Army warfighting philosophy. Get dependent on your toys and your warfighting will suffer.
Posted by: USMC Steve at March 29, 2011 06:35 AM (zZae2)
Posted by: Aghast at March 29, 2011 07:36 AM (i0DCe)
Posted by: juice at March 29, 2011 09:53 PM (wQj1+)
It's really surprising how you call Afghan people savages and worth killing , when it's the nature of animals to kill , at least they do it to hunt for food not for enjoyment and human slaughtering.
Posted by: Hanadi at April 06, 2011 12:33 AM (PPG3o)
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Posted by: Color Me Surprised at March 28, 2011 02:40 PM (rTwsE)