1   Thread-steppin'

2 You're right, it is basic to a conservative, but Mittens is absolutely not a conservative. In fact, he doesn't even play one.

3 Dude's already flipping on his flops and we haven't even cast the first primary vote yet.

4 Romney = SCOAMF-lite. Everything you've always wanted in a SCOAMF, and less.

5 I think this was one of the few moments when Romney, whose strongest suit is doing his homework, had forgotten to do his homework. I think he forgot what position he or his campaign had taken on the initiatives, and he really should have checked that beforehand.
-----

This is the funniest thing ever (and - sadly given how down ace is on Perry - I doubt it was intended).

Maybe we should nominate a guy who doesn't have to research his past positions to decide what he's supposed to say today. 

6 I think one of the big problems on the "homework" front is the campaign knew they were going to a call center working on the issue. How did they not know he would be asked his position on it? What was the point of being there if not to support it?

It makes no sense other than he wanted to have it both ways: I'm with the Republicans but wink, wink, not really union folks.

If he didn't want to get into the substance, stay the hell away from the call center.

7 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

8 JeffB and Polynikes hardest hit.

9 Meanwhile,Jay Leno gave Obama a BJ.

10 What was the point of being there if not to support it?

It was a photo op. 

11 It's only a matter of time before Romney, in his quest to look presidential without committing to anything, is only available to GOP primary voters in 2 minute intervals while standing under the whirling blades of a helicopter as the press shouts questions at him. 

12 um, hold on, I'll get those talking points soon enough to reply to you teabaggers

13 Sooo...

Everyone in the MFM is realizing that their annointed one cannot win a second term so they are going to pimp Romney now?

14 The liberal media has all of our candidates stepping on their Chomskies.

15 To me, this is what makes a RINO a RINO.  It's the instinctual response.  The tendency, when left alone and without critique from the right, to take very non-conservative positions, and then, only after having been raked over the coals by conservatives, grudgingly make the conservative choice.

Bush: initial nomination of Harriet Meiers; subsequent de-nonination and nomination of Alito.

McCain:  Amnesty, then "You can have your damn fence."

Among the many drawbacks of a President Romney is the prospect of having to ride his ass mercilessly to make sure he doesn't rely on his "instincts."

16 “You can’t change from one election to another. I think in his own words, he says, listen, I need to say whatever I need to say for whatever office I’m running for.”

-Perry on Romney

17 I'm running for office, for Pete's sake. I can't have insincerity.

18 The Constitution was specifically designed for these sort of out for themselves politicians like Clinton and Romney subject to the constraints of divided government and the will of the people.  Even in its current weekend state it handles pretty well.

Because of our many historical precedents of ignoring the constitution, for some boogeyman of the day, coupled with our fraudulent single party media and our constitution no longer defends us against someone like O.  Willing to act more like an ideological suicide bomber willing to get his agenda through while mostly destroying the very party that brought him to power.

19 Romney is usually so slick. It's almost as if someone has gotten under his skin.

Internal polling must be showing him something scary.

20 14 The liberal media has all of our candidates stepping on their Chomskies. Posted by: tasker at October 26, 2011 12:28 PM (rJVPU) Is Chomsky dead? If so, I'd like to deposit some "down tinkles and brownies" on his grave. Just like an NYPD cop car.

21 I am totally, 100% in favor of this issue, and I think my statements have been clear on it.  I am fully behind the idea of local communities and legislatures coming up with ideas for local governance, which is why I opposed this issue from the beginning.  How can I be more clear that I am in favor of this issue?

22 I can't be expected to memorize everything a conservative would say, can I?

23 Romney doesn't give two shits whether you hate him or not, because he knows he'll get your vote in the general.

24 Wait... Chomsky is dead? Off to the googles!

25 I'm trying to remember how many times the POTUS, who is a defacto leader of his party, is dragged anywhere by Congress controlled by his party, let alone by the spineless twits we have.  Sure, POTUSes will adjust mid-term, but those first two years they do what they want and Congress approves it.

26

Posted by: Y-not at October 26, 2011 12:27 PM (5H6zj)

Romney should be more careful if he wants this nomination, he can't get past 25% support after campaigning for 6 years and post-Iowa and NH the backbenchers will peal away until there's only 1 alternative w/ a lot of anti-Romney votes. People are so desperate to avoid his candiday that they're running to Herman freaking Cain. He's losing to Cain in ILLINOIS. NOW I've heard there's a lot of 2nd plan votes for Romney so he's got that going for him?

27 Among the many drawbacks of a President Romney is the prospect of having to ride his ass mercilessly to make sure he doesn't rely on his "instincts." Posted by: angler at October 26, 2011 12:29 PM (SwjAj) Barney Frank, pick up the white courtesy strap-on...

28 You know what would clear up this little kerfuffle? A twenty minute PowerPoint presentation.

29 And it's worrisome to a conservative that his instincts could not supply a good answer.

Romney isn't a conservative, so he doesn't think like one.

And this is a fundamental problem. He is MUCH more competent then Obama, but since he is not conservative, he will mostly likely agree to just do a better job managing the Obamaconomy - the worst of all possible worlds from a conservative perspective.

30

I saw a video with Mitt saying he supports Kasich on this issue. It's possible he didn't know how the initiative was worded, and didn't want to comment on it in particular.  How many using the flipflop charge are Perry or Obama supporters? Or just someone wanting to stir things up. Disgusting.

31 A little late, Mitt. You can't give me blue ice and then tell me it's a snow cone.

32 28, Thanks to technology, Satan was able to add a new room in hell. It's the perpetual power point presentation room.

33

perry was pretty good on o'blowhard last night. He should do more interviews.

Mittens is scum who even my rino parents have sworn they will not vote for. He is a perfect caricature of  the comedic politician.

Romney's been running for what? 6-7 years and he can only get 25%. he is DOA. I want him out of public life forever and at one of his 6543 houses sipping some bourbon.

34 This isn't a case of 'forgetting to do one's homework'.

He did his homework - he looked at the polls and the tanking support for SB5 and decided to switch sides.

He supported SB5 in June.

This is what he said then --

“My friends in Ohio are fighting to defend crucial reforms that the state has put in place to limit the power of union bosses and keep taxes low,” Romney wrote on Facebook. “I stand with John Kasich and Ohio’s leaders as they take on this important fight to get control of government spending. Please visit www.betterohio.org for more information.”

35 Relax, ace, and have a smoke.

36 standard Romney behavior don't take a stand on an issue until it is already settled.

37 I saw a video with Mitt saying he supports Kasich on this issue. It's possible he didn't know how the initiative was worded, and didn't want to comment on it in particular.

What was he doing at the call center, then?  And why did he support one of the initiatives, but not the other?

I thought he was the Most Competent Executive Evah.  Or maybe he's just a weasel. 

38 Everyone in the MFM is realizing that their annointed one cannot win a second term so they are going to pimp Romney now?

Posted by: Lord Monochromicorn at October 26, 2011 12:27 PM (zCCgl)

Out of the 1st tier Republican candidates he is the least likely to seriously take on the national socialist status quo...so from the left's perspective it makes a lot of sense.

39 I'm voting NotObama in 2012

40 Naaa... Chomsky is alive and well in Dewey Square- Chomsky encourages Occupy protesters to band together Written by Chelsea FeinsteinPublished Oct 24, 2011 Renowned linguist and social activist Noam Chomsky expressed support for the Occupy Boston movement while cautioning protesters that change would take months or years to occur in a speech at the movement’s headquarters in Dewey Square Saturday. In the shadow of the towering buildings of the Financial District, hundreds of protesters gathered to watch Chomsky speak as part of the Howard Zinn Memorial Lecture Series. “There has always been a gap between public policy and public will, but it has grown astronomically. You can see it right here,” Chomsky said. Chomsky said the Occupy Boston movement could be important in reversing the fundamental changes in the economic structure that he said began in the 1970s. “If things continue like this . . . this historic reversal that began in the 1970s could become irreversible,” he said. “And the Occupy Boston movements are the first real major public reaction that could avert us this. But it’s going to be necessary to face the fact that it’s a long hard struggle.” Chomsky explained how the U.S. economy has developed since the 1930s, turning from a worker-based economy into one that is controlled by corporate interests. He also said that the pessimism with which many people perceive the economy today is unique in American history. “[During the Great Depression] there was the sense that we’re going to get out of it,” Chomsky said. “It’s quite different now. Now there’s a pervasive sense of hopelessness and despair. I think it’s quite new in American history.”

41

Obama is telling skulls fulla much in Denver that the GOP is blocking jobs bills.  He's also using the 400,000/$500 numbers again.

Also saying the overwhelming majority of Americans support it.

 

Also:  hinting at bypassing congress again

42 A politician running for Prez shouldn't have to do homework on what his view is on one of the core issues of the day, union busting, er, reform.  That Romney has to write his principles in a book (his words) and do homework to remember what his views are is the problem with him from top to bottom.  I frankly can't stand the guy.

43 I flopped before I flipped.

44 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Sorry- troll-hunting in the OWS thread.

45 Who said it escapes me but perhaps the worst thing someone on the Right said about Romney, with trenchant insight, is that conservatives hope he's a Republican who will stay bought.

46 perry was pretty good on o'blowhard last night. He should do more interviews.

Yes, I watched the second segment and he was terrific.  He managed to call Romney a lying clocksucker without smearing the entire conservative movement in the process.  Contrast this to how Romney smeared Perry, and all conservatives serious about Social Security reform, and you know which one is McCain 2.0. 

Did anyone catch him on Cavuto? 

47 ps...FU Mitt. You're not my friend. I can't wait to not give you a single cent or minute of my time should you be our nominee.

48

I'm voting NotObama in 2012

+1

49 Jib-Jab needs to update the flip-flop song for mittens.

50 Carvel calls Romney a "wind sock" and that's a pretty good description. What will this guy actually do if he's the President?

51

"We can't wait for Congress to do it's job, so where they won't act, I will."

Cheers.

 

This is how the republic ends.  Not in flames, but with thundrous applause.

52 Someone needs to play the role of Jeff B. who is on Support Romney vacation....

53 oops off sock/

54 Germany seeks a final solution to Greek debt crisis.

55 Romney is the perfect side stepping candidate you've been waiting for!

56

So, three points:

4. He's acting like he's president already and "It's up to the people of Ohio to decide" is what a president would say?

57

1, he didn't do his homework here, and really the one thing I like about Romney is that he does his homework, so when he doesn't, it leaves me wondering what good he is at all.

 

No one does their homework perfectly and without fail.  At the very least, you don't get the "dog ate my homework" excuse from Romney that you essentially get from Perry.

58 What will this guy actually do if he's the President?

Posted by: mare at October 26, 2011 12:37 PM (A98Xu)

===

Whatever I want because I will have my own Super Planet filled with 14 year-old virgins in the afterlife.

59

You talking about Romney doing his homework is obviously racist.

There is a mindset among whites that people of color don't DO their homework! the ONE PERCENT OF RICH WHITE PEOPLE ALSO BELIEVE THIS!!!

RACIST CODE WORDS ARE ON THIS BLOG!!!

60

Posted by: tasker at October 26, 2011 12:37 PM (rJVPU)

meh, I respect Jeff for stepping back. He saw he was getting nowhere and that the blog was pissed with him so he checked out later for a more unifying time. It was a good move.

61

Romney has no convictions, that is the problem. Homework or not it is a persons convictions on which they govern. Romney's sole conviction is defending Romneycare. I could say he has two convictions if you count talking out of both sides of his mouth when he does ot have a canned answer.

<i>"I think this was one of the few moments when Romney, whose strongest suit is doing his homework, had forgotten to do his homework. I think he forgot what position he or his campaign had taken on the initiatives, and he really should have checked that beforehand. After all, he was visiting a call center making calls on behalf of the initiative. It's going to come up."</i>

If you tell the truth and speak your convictions then you don't have to remember what your position is on any given issue. This is a real problem for me. I supported teh Fred because the words coming out of his mouth were his own and he believed what he said. Romney has to have a legion of campaign staff to remember the minutia of every position and every potential attack that could come from his past positions. This for me is a disqualifier.

I remember the feeling of watching Bush's oval office address pushing amnesty. NEVER AGAIN. I would rather follow the Rush rule rather than the Buckley rule. If it means a far left ideologue stays in the White House then so be it. That is the Republican establishments fault. I'm not compromising anymore.

 

62 Romney can win the debate against Obama because Obama won't know if he'll get hit with a left or a right!

63 I flipped around the channels on the tube last night and not suprisingly O'Donnell and Cooper were aghast at Perry's "birtherism." A little more suprising was Brit Hume on Fox pummeling Perry for stepping on his announcement of his tax plan.

64 You know, we're all traitors now.

65 Stop with the homework analogy. It's pure BS. He knew exactly what he was doing.

66

"We can't wait for Congress to do it's job, so where they won't act, I will."

 

THIS is how you run a country!

67 I just want to beat Obama.I bash only Obama.I fucking hate Obama.

68

Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 26, 2011 12:38 PM (b68Df)

and mr. Reagan was a liberal is here to tell us we should back Romney or else!

69 AuthorMendez- Ya but we still need someone to defend Romney... Gawd this is....*difficult*.

70 #61 Romney has no convictions, that is the problem. Does he have any indictments?

71 Effin' wishy washy.  I can't take it anymore.

72 Romney has been studying for six years to win the job!

73 oops off sock/

Posted by: AuthorLMendez at October 26, 2011 12:37 PM (3XDPM)

Actually, I thought it worked pretty well.

74

"We can't wait for Congress to do it's job, so where they won't act, I will."

Cheers.

 This is how the republic ends.  Not in flames, but with thundrous applause.

Posted by: Truman North, TPT at October 26, 2011 12:37 PM (I2LwF)

Imagine the left and MFM outrage if Perry aid the same line.  Actually, I'd love to see a smart campaign staffer logging comments like this to slip inside of a GOP campaign speech.  Wait for the outrage.  Then when confronted, do or say nothing other than to immediately play back the SCFOAMF's saying the same thing.

75 I go back and forth on whether flip flopping is OK.

76

Posted by: tasker at October 26, 2011 12:40 PM (rJVPU)

it's not gonna be me, after Perry imploded I tried out Romeny and couldn't take it after a couple weeks. The guy is impossible to defend w/o using talking points. He lies to my face as he looks into the camera and flip-flops on every issue. I couldn't do it for long, it was getting embarasssing so I ran back to the undecided camp.

77 It is amazing to look at the relative weakness of the field right now.

If we define the serious candidates as Perry, Cain, Romney, and I guess Gingrinch now, they all have serious flaws. Perry and Cain on the mechanics of running for office and all of them (but especially the last two) on adherence to conservative principles.

Why is it so hard to find someone that is:

A) Reliably conservative
B) A decent campaigner
C) Charismatic

78 I think this was one of the few moments when Romney, whose strongest suit is doing his homework, had forgotten to do his homework. I think he forgot what position he or his campaign had taken on the initiatives, and he really should have checked that beforehand.

Finger-in-the-wind politics can cause problems, no doubt...

79 O/T (okay, I'd like to know what Mutt Romney's reaction to this would be -- ditto Perry, Cain and Ace -- so I'm not off-topic):

http://bit.ly/sGZk0p

Another border agent goes to jail for not being nice enough to drug-smugglers.

Way to go, Eric Holder (and the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure)!

80 Have a heart. Mitt is unemployed too, so the stress of scouring the classified ads has dulled his keen edge.

81 No choice is a worse choice than reelecting Obama.Don't full yourself.GW was far better than Gore or Kerry.

82 I didn't believe this when Drew said it.. but now that Ace says so, I guess we can believe it.

83 D) Not Romney

84 you gotta be sincere

85 Disgusting.

Posted by: lj at October 26, 2011 12:32 PM (lRynF)

----------

First, I've never seen you here before, so I am going to assume you are a trolling Romneybot.  Second, what's disgusting is your BFF's complete and utter lack of principles.  Dude should pick something - anything at this point - and stick to it.

86 Romney said he supported Kasich's efforts to reduce government and the efforts of the phone bank... YESTERDAY.

He didnt wade into the specific ballot questions. So some with an agenda spun it against Romney. I'm just surprised so many suckers bought it.

Started by redstate going full jackass for Perry.

87 Why is it so hard to find someone that is: A) Reliably conservative B) A decent campaigner C) Charismatic Posted by: 18-1 at October 26, 2011 12:42 PM You forgot D) A past that is not filled with crime, lies and deceit.

88 Obama is destroying our country,HELL,he may already have destroyed it.

89 @77 My frustration as well. You'd think with Obama as weak as he is there would be many reliable, electable conservatives vying for the nomination. And yet we have none to pick from.

90 No choice is a worse choice than reelecting Obama.Don't full yourself.GW was far better than Gore or Kerry.

Posted by: steevy at October 26, 2011 12:43 PM (fyOgS)

+1

but until then anybody but Mitt

91 The SCOAMF comes out supporting #OWS "students shouldn't be saddled with debt" http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

92 you gotta be sincere

Posted by: conrad birdie at October 26, 2011 12:43 PM (FduBR)

Bye, bye Romney, hate to see you go.

93 50 Ways

94 Romney Clarifies:... No, you were clear yesterday, too. Today's answer is different.

95 Romney = SCOAMF-lite. Everything you've always wanted in a SCOAMF, and less.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

 

TRUE.

 

Oh, and I will not vote for Romney under any circumstances.

96 I'm not compromising anymore.

Agreed. Compromise got us Medicare Part D, an attempt at Shamensty, wreckless growth of government, and eventually Barack Obama.

The Buckley rule has failed empirically, and the sooner we recognize that, the better.

97 it's not gonna be me, after Perry imploded I tried out Romeny and couldn't take it after a couple weeks. The guy is impossible to defend w/o using talking points. He lies to my face as he looks into the camera and flip-flops on every issue. I couldn't do it for long, it was getting embarasssing so I ran back to the undecided camp. **** Yep. I keep trying to find a second choice... The problem with Romney isn't that he is stupid-it's that - he thinks Republican primary voters are stupid.

98

It's worrisome that, when asked a question he's not fully prepared for but which should be easily answerable by relying on basic instincts and core ideological impulse, Romney comes up a bit empty and has to offer up a noncommittal answer.

This behavior is typical for a lot of CEOs, Mr. Ace.

It is what we see coming from Herman Cain as well. ....So that thing about "not a career politician" doesn't hold any merit with Romney and Cain, because they both exhibit the squishiness that comes from boardroom experience, without the experience of having built the company from scratch.

And they each have run for office before, and lost.....so their losses are what prevented them from not being career politicians, not their convictions.

99 If it was polling better, Romney wouldn't have hesitated in supporting the measure.

100 81 Fool yoursef even.Damn,Obama makes me so mad I fuck up simple shit.

101

whats the over/under for us with this ballot initiative in ohio right now? Will kasich win?

Romney is scum

102 98....Uh oh. Messed up the tag on that. Sorry.

103 My plan is going purr-fectly.  Maybe I can even take a catnap.

104 I do not want SCOMF in for another four years and hear people whine about so-and-so not being "conservative" enough.  I'll vote for the anti-SCOMF even if he was the one chosen by the MSM and GOP elite. *barf*

105

Oh, and I will not vote for Romney under any circumstances.

thank you so much for your support suckers

106 he thinks Republican primary voters are stupid.

You mean the ones that nominated McCain last time?  Oh no, it couldn't be!

107 Why is it so hard to find someone that is:

A) Reliably conservative
B) A decent campaigner
C) Charismatic

Because the region of overlap between A and B in a Venn Diagram is very, very small.

Most people who are "decent campaigners" (on the national level) want the office for its own sake (or the power that comes with it).  Someone who is reliably conservative does not.  So you have to find that very small segment of people who are decent campaigners who are not also addicted to the power.

They're not mutually exclusive, but there is a dearth of such candidates.

108 41 Obama is telling skulls fulla much in Denver that the GOP is blocking jobs bills.  He's also using the 400,000/$500 numbers again.

Also saying the overwhelming majority of Americans support it.

Also:  hinting at bypassing congress again

According to the polls, we supposedly support his initiatives and consider the Rs to be obstructionists. Never mind the skewed sample, they got the answer they wanted.

As for bypassing Congress, considering he has already done so a few times (e.g., 'immigration reform' ), I would not be surprised if he tries to do so here. If he does, he will justify it by saying that we cannot wait for Congress to come to an agreement, so he has to act.

109 Hey, Megan McCain has endorsed Romney. That changes everything!

110

Agreed. Compromise got us Medicare Part D, an attempt at Shamensty, wreckless growth of government, and eventually Barack Obama.

and you're gonna get me again after your little ideology stance! ha! enjoy 4 more years sucka!

111 For a donation in the amount of $500 a year for 10 years, you can help a public school administrator sit on his fat ass for one year.

112 The SCOAMF comes out supporting #OWS "students shouldn't be saddled with debt" I eagerly await B of A telling me I shouldn't worry about my mortgage, but since it's their money, I'm not expecting much to happen.

113

It is amazing to look at the relative weakness of the field right now.

True. Any conservative who can walk and chew gum at the same time could win the White House. Yet here we are...some aren't conservative, and some can't speak like a would-be president.

It's common for partisans to complain about their crop of candidates, but shit. It's gonna get late pretty early and we'll be stuck with Mitt and his warm glass of milk Republicanism.

114

thank you so much for your support suckers

Posted by: Barrack Obama at October 26, 2011 12:47 PM (3XDPM)

Is the ultimate goal to beat Barack Obama or to advance conservative principles?

115 How stupid has Rush Limbaugh become. I see people here bashing the Buckley Rule, and supporting the Limbaugh Rule. Which means supporting a Bachmann/Santorum ticket. What a bunch of retards.

116 (Whereas "letting it rip" and so on are over-valued.)

If he'd practiced whipping it out more he'd have got it out of the magic underwear without stepping on it.

117 86 Romney said he supported Kasich's efforts to reduce government and the efforts of the phone bank... YESTERDAY.

He didnt wade into the specific ballot questions.

What was he doing at a phone bank devoted to two specific ballot initiatives, then?

He blows off the social cons in Iowa a few days ago, but makes time for a 45 minute photo op in which he commits to one initiative, but not the other? 

118

Is the ultimate goal to beat Barack Obama or to advance conservative principles?

you think 4 more years of me will advance conservative principles, haha, suckers

119

This behavior is typical for a lot of CEOs, Mr. Ace.

It is what we see coming from Herman Cain as well. ....So that thing about "not a career politician" doesn't hold any merit with Romney and Cain, because they both exhibit the squishiness that comes from boardroom experience, without the experience of having built the company from scratch.

And they each have run for office before, and lost.....so their losses are what prevented them from not being career politicians, not their convictions.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 26, 2011 12:45 PM (PoraU)

 

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

120 77 It is amazing to look at the relative weakness of the field right now. I think a lot of our better candidates planned to run in 2016-they didn't expect for Obama to implode so spectacularly. In fact I think Perry organized late and is learning about national elections on the fly because if you all remember- Perry jumped in when the economy started really looking like it would not recover or benefit from the $800 billion stimulus-(employment being a lagging indicator) and- Obama's popularity cratering. Perry might have accelerated his 2016 plans... We'll see if he can get some damn altitude on this thing again.

121 113 So why did the "better" candidates not want to run?A weal president with the country in a horrible decline and we still get a weak field.You'd think everyone would sense the opportunity of a lifetime and jump in.

122 Which means supporting a Bachmann/Santorum ticket.

Over Romney?  Hell yes.

123 RECIPE for 2012
     1    -Resolve to forego internecine squabbles.
     2    -Diligently research candidates.  (POTUS to dogcatcher)
     3    -Become involved in local party activities.
     4    -Vote your preference in the primary.
     5    -Invest heavily in brass, copper and lead.  (Potentially valuable from election night through ?)
     6    -For the first time, I'm advocating voting straight Republican ticket on election day.  Again, POTUS to dogcatcher.  Sheer numbers should result in a hopefully useful cadre of conservatives.
     7    -Immediately upon inauguration/installation to office, begin daily campaign of reminders to each elected offical of who they work for and what we expect of them.

124 122, +1

125 and- Obama's popularity *cratered*.

126 120 Right about Perry.He clearly saw the opportunity and jumped in unprepared.Hopefully he can get his ass prepared before it is too late.

127 Mark Amodei joins Team Romney. Those RINO scum Bill Bolling and Bob McDonnell are extremely fond of Romney. Expect a McDonnell endorsement before VA primary.

128 I see people here bashing the Buckley Rule, and supporting the Limbaugh Rule.

Which means supporting a Bachmann/Santorum ticket.

What a bunch of retards.

Posted by: Winning at October 26, 2011 12:49 PM (I+xVl)

Romney is as conservative as Obama. Think supreme court. We cant afford a justice van jones that mitt would appoint

129

For the first time, I'm advocating voting straight Republican ticket on election day.

NOOOOOOOO!

130 They're not mutually exclusive, but there is a dearth of such candidates.

I think you are right on the overall point - men who will fight for political power specifically to reduce the amount of power they can then wield are rare.

But looking at the current crop of Republican governors, we might have a plethora of candidates in 2016: Walker, Jindal, Bob McDonnell, Kaisch, etc

It looks like the last 4 years of the Bush administration really are having a lasting effect...

131

Romney is as conservative as Obama. Think supreme court. We cant afford a justice van jones that mitt would appoint

haha! perfect, perfect thinking

132 What a bunch of retards.

Posted by: Winning at October 26, 2011 12:49 PM (I+xVl)

---

I find it fascinating that the Romney camp trundles out the same smears against intelligence that Obama used. 

BTW, Gov. Rick Perry (R - Functional Retard, Texas) is smart enough to not believe in AGW or subsidize ethanol. 

133 126 120 Right about Perry.He clearly saw the opportunity and jumped in unprepared.Hopefully he can get his ass prepared before it is too late. Posted by: steevy at October 26, 2011 12:52 PM He has about three weeks to get into the high teens low twenties in the polls or he is done.

134 I used to think Obama was a SCOAMF but with the way the countries going I think I'll vote for him in 2012.

135 Because the region of overlap between A and B in a Venn Diagram is very, very small.

Much of campaigning is public speaking - are you quick on your feet, can you stay on message, can you quickly come up with witty rejoinders, etc.  Not surprisingly, lawyers seem to be the best public speakers (except for Newt).  Our guys have not in large part been lawyers.

136 What a bunch of retards.

Posted by: Winning at October 26, 2011 12:49 PM (I+xVl)

as someone who doesn't like the sit out 2012 retards myself, i'd consider not putting all the anti-Romney folks in that camp.

137 The SCOAMF comes out supporting #OWS "students shouldn't be saddled with debt"

Which is Wall Street's fault how, Barky, you stupid fuck?

138 I think I have the Helsinki Hiccups.

139

you think 4 more years of me will advance conservative principles, haha, suckers

Posted by: Barrack Obama at October 26, 2011 12:50 PM (3XDPM)

The last four years of Bush 43, who was more conservative then Romney, gave us Barack Obama...

140 121 113 So why did the "better" candidates not want to run?A weal president with the country in a horrible decline and we still get a weak field.You'd think everyone would sense the opportunity of a lifetime and jump in.

You have to want to be president. After seeing what the liberals did to Bush and Palin, few politicians are going to volunteer. That and some of them failed to meet the qualifications* for running in a Republican primary.

*Not technically required but necessary in capturing votes

141 "What was he doing at a phone bank devoted to two specific ballot initiatives, then? He blows off the social cons in Iowa a few days ago, but makes time for a 45 minute photo op in which he commits to one initiative, but not the other? Posted by: Y-not at October 26, 2011 12:50 PM (5H6zj)" If your side wasnt so full of hysterics, and actually listened to what he said, he explicitly stated that he supports the efforts of the phone bank. Explicitly. The fact is that Rick Perry sucks. And people doubt Herman Cain can sustain his bump, so they are panicking. This was a hype story pushed by liberals and hysterical Perry supporters who cant grasp the fact their guy sounds like an idiot and an angry asshole, and that people dont like hime.

142

Expect a McDonnell endorsement before VA primary.

I expect it and expect Romney to win VA's primary

143 I will be the voice in the wind and say I'm quite satisfied with Perry as a candidate, his debate performances notwithstanding.  Overall, I like his record, I trust his core principles, and I like him as a person. 

It's not true that he is not a good campaigner, btw.  It's universally acknowledged that he works the crowd extremely well and he can win people over with his stump speeches. 

144

The last four years of Bush 43, who was more conservative then Romney, gave us Barack Obama...

Posted by: 18-1 at October 26, 2011 12:55 PM (7BU4a)

jesus christ my plan is working! 4 more years of me baby! yes!

145 I think Ace has nailed it. Romney often sounds OK, but deep down he has no conservative instinct, or even an instinctual position close at hand that he hasn't already poll tested.

Reminds me of McCain. He used to floor me when he he would say, "Well, I just disagree" like that was some kind of conservative argument, instead of making a cogent argument for his stand.

It's almost like these guys have no convictions except that they should be the ones in charge. Kind of like the perpetual student council candidates.

146 Not surprisingly, lawyers seem to be the best public speakers (except for Newt).

Salesman, CEOs, and Military officers tend to be decent public speakers also, and are generally much more Republican then lawyers...

147 If your side wasnt so full of hysterics, and actually listened to what he said, he explicitly stated that he supports the efforts of the phone bank. Explicitly.
-----
But you said he did not support specific ballot initiatives... which is what the phone bank was about. 

So what does that mean?  Did he come out with the bold stance of supporting Republican volunteers calling people to talk about the weather? 

148

The fact is that Rick Perry sucks. And people doubt Herman Cain can sustain his bump, so they are panicking.

This was a hype story pushed by liberals and hysterical Perry supporters who cant grasp the fact their guy sounds like an idiot and an angry asshole, and that people dont like hime.

you argue like a lib, can you explain to me why Perry is so bad compared to Romney instead of just namecalling him and his supporters. I can make a btter case for why not Perry then you

149

46.....Did anyone catch him on Cavuto?

Y-not, I'm watching it right now, on FoxBusiness' site. If you missed it, it's posted there.....just go to the site, then put 'Cavuto + Perry' in the search thingy.

It's titled "Gov Perry on the European Debt Crisis". 

150 So far I've watched Perry squander an enormous lead in a matter of weeks for various reasons. He may give a good stump speech, and I've seen him do it, but that ain't enough to win.

151 126 120 Right about Perry.He clearly saw the opportunity and jumped in unprepared.Hopefully he can get his ass prepared before it is too late. Posted by: steevy As they say timing is everything...or 90% of it.

152 He may give a good stump speech, and I've seen him do it, but that ain't enough to win.

$15 million and a bold economic plan is enough to keep him in the game. 

... Which is why Romney has a website devoted to attacking, Perry.  And why he put out an ad that even the Romney-leaning media types called egregiously nasty. 

153 He has about three weeks to get into the high teens low twenties in the polls or he is done. Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at October 26, 2011 12:53 PM (ZDUD4) Next debate is CNBC Nov. 9th...maybe three weeks after that ...

154 Is the ultimate goal to beat Barack Obama or to advance conservative principles?

Yes.

155

In fact I think Perry organized late and is learning about national elections on the fly ....

That's what I've been saying, especially in comparison to Romney, who has been running for prez non-stop since 2006 and, generally, for decades. It's clear Perry was unprepared to speak to anyone outside of Texas.

156 Conservatives have principles: protection of life; keep the profits of your own labor; non-interference to people following those principles; limited government; etc. Liberals only have one principle: acquire as much power as you can and keep it as long as you can any way you can. Which description fits Romney better? The question of whether or not to support the budget reforms should be a no-brainer for a conservative. Romney had to stop and think about it to calculate which was the winning strategy. That doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy about him.

157

@ 105

Oh, and I will not vote for Romney under any circumstances.

thank you so much for your support suckers

====================

it's not support.

If the United States is gonna burn, then I'd rather the History books have your SCOAMF fucking name written in them as the fiddler... and Not some wanna-be Obama-Lite with an "R" after his name.

158 Rick Perry is polling at 6%. If you want to dismiss competence, electability, preparedness, intelligence, and articulateness; and follow the Limbaugh Rule and vote the most conservative candidate... then the only logical choice would be Rick Santorum or Michelle Bachmann. They are much more conservative than Perry with abuses of executive power, crony capitalism and position of illegal immigration.

159  7    -Immediately upon inauguration/installation to office, begin daily campaign of reminders to each elected offical of who they work for and what we expect of them.

Posted by: Burnt Swamp Catawampus at October 26, 2011 12:51 PM (BKfzm)

This this this this this this this this this!

This is the problem that drives me crazy with politicians.  The immediately take their election as a mandate that says, "I was elected because people support my ideas."  No, that's not true.  In some cases it's true, but in a lot of cases -- particularly in things like the Presidency, where a LOT of people are choosing between only two candidates -- a vote for the candidate is more often a vote AGAINST the opponent. 

That's why if Romney, or Perry, or any of the candidates wins the general against Obama, I plan to write a letter to them the day they become President Elect that says, quite succinctly,

"Mr/Mrs. President Elect,

I did not vote for you because I like you.  I voted for you because you are not Barack Obama.  If you want me to vote for you again in 2016, then you will do what the American people -- myself included -- expect of you, which is to dismantle, disassemble, deregulate, revoke, negate, overturn, and displace absolutely everything and everyone put in place during the previous administration.  You will not obfuscate, prevaricate, lie, or tiptoe around the facts.  You will work with conservative members of Congress to foster a pro-growth, prosperity-friendly economic environment.  And you will not ever sneer at the people who put you in office.

Do all of this and you'll coast through 2016.  Fail to do all of this and you can expect to face a solid primary opponent in 2016 who will.

Sincerely,
MWR"

160 No doubt 15 million will keep Perry in the race for the foreseeable future. I certainly wouldn't classify his tax plan as bold. A good start maybe. I'm afraid he's alienated a sizable percentage of Republican primary voters with his la raza bullshit.

161 Yes.

Posted by: DarkLord© sez Obama is a stuttering clusterf--- of a miserable failure Oh, and F--- Nevada! at October 26, 2011 01:01 PM (GBXon)

And what is those two items are at odds? For example, why not run Hillary Clinton? You'd get a large percentage of the Democrat vote, right?

162 If there is anything about Romney I can say that is positive, it is that he always knew what he wanted to do. He wanted to be President and he spent the time preparing for it. In comparison, many of the others appear to be opportunists who did not consider running. Six months or less really is not enough time to prepare for something so large as a run for President. The other candidates are paying the price.

163 SB 5 is going down in Ohio. The repeal forces are way ahead according to the polling. I'm from Ohio and I'm utterly disgusted with the voters in this state. Gov Kasich took an 8 billion dollar deficit left behind by Ted Strickland and balanced the state budget WITHOUT RAISING TAXES. His thanks? His favorables are tanking – 52 percent – disapprove of his performance, compared to 36 percent who approve. And now the dipshits in this state are going to undo the limits placed on collective bargaining placed on public employees. It literally makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. Enjoy getting your taxes raised, Ohio, so a bunch of fatassed public employees can retire at 55. Well done, you fucktards.

164
Ace,

As you point out, he did not think his tepid comments would receive major press coverage. (And this seems largely true, as Ace of Spades is the only place I've seen it reported. Did Brett's Special Report cover it? If it did, I missed it.) But consider that if Romney had suspected his comments would get wide coverage, then he likely would have reverted to an instinctual, "Of course these reforms are important to Ohio." But since he could not remember precisely the ground he had staked out on the initiatives, it makes sense that he would take the safe road in commenting on them. - Especially because his innocuous comments do not appear to have made major page news. To be sure, I doubt Rick Perry can exploit this issue in a polished ad.

165

Reminds me of McCain. He used to floor me when he he would say, "Well, I just disagree" like that was some kind of conservative argument, instead of making a cogent argument for his stand. It's almost like these guys have no convictions...

As Milton Friedman said, most politicians just want to be re-elected and will take whatever stand necessary to do that. It's up to voters reward the good and punish the bad.

Other than Reagan, I honestly can't think of a serious GOP presidential candidate in my lifetime who had a deep, unwavering political philosphy.

166 I certainly wouldn't classify his tax plan as bold. A good start maybe.

Really?  With the exception of one editorial at NRO, most of the commentary on it that I've read has described it as bold, even from folks who are clearly not Perry-supporters.

In contrast, I don't recall a single editorial characterizing Romney's plan, which was much more limited in scope, as anything other than trimming around the edges. 

167 Next debate is CNBC Nov. 9th...

Why, oh why do the Republicans keep on playing the leftist media game?

168

I'm from Ohio and I'm utterly disgusted with the voters in this state. Gov Kasich took an 8 billion dollar deficit left behind by Ted Strickland and balanced the state budget WITHOUT RAISING TAXES.

His thanks? His favorables are tanking – 52 percent – disapprove of his performance, compared to 36 percent who approve.

This is why a movement - right or left - has to win the idea war BEFORE winning elections. I don't think Kasich or Walker ran on this issue.

169 167 Next debate is CNBC Nov. 9th... Why, oh why do the Republicans keep on playing the leftist media game? Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 26, 2011 01:09 PM What a set up. How stupid. If I were Breitbart I would rent a VFW hall and Have an Interwebs debate.

170 Well just so we're clear, I form my own opinions regardless of what the editorial writers say. I like the idea of a flat tax. This is an idea that has been around for ages and yet hasn't gotten any real traction, so I give Perry points for proposing it. Bold? Arguable. 20% of income to the federal government is bold? For a conservative? I don't think so. Allowing folks to opt in or out? Wishy washy on its' face.

171 Why, oh why do the Republicans keep on playing the leftist media game?

Where else are they going to go?  Really, we complain about the debates, but we demand debates.  If the only place Republicans debated was on Fox, and only sponsored by the Heritage Foundation (or whoever), they would (quite rightly) be open to a great deal of criticism about not going in front of adversarial moderators, or not carrying about the people who don't watch FoxNews.

172 162 If there is anything about Romney I can say that is positive, it is that he always knew what he wanted to do. He wanted to be President and he spent the time preparing for it.

In terms of campaign prep, I guess.  But I really don't credit a guy who did one term in office and left his state saddled with Obamacare-lite as having prepared to lead the country.  He cut and run and for some reason (that completely escapes me) has been given a big pass on that failure in this election.  What is more stomach-turning is that he was given a big shiny gold star for Masscare last time.  I remember all-to-well how his supposed expertise was going to help us solve the health care crisis.  Well, what the fuck has he done since then?  He's got the assets, connections, and (we're told) the smarts to address this issue, but instead he's been fucking around for three years grooming himself in style but not substance. 

I voted for him last time and early in this go-round I defended him, but I will not vote for him in the primary.  And I'm not sure about the general at this point. 

173

I'm from Ohio and I'm utterly disgusted with the voters in this state. Gov Kasich took an 8 billion dollar deficit left behind by Ted Strickland and balanced the state budget WITHOUT RAISING TAXES.

His thanks? His favorables are tanking – 52 percent – disapprove of his performance, compared to 36 percent who approve.

ALSO...responsibility for making these stances safe for politicians like Kaisch and Walker rests with US. Guys like Ace are doing what's needed.

174 Well, what the fuck has he done since then? He's got the assets, connections, and (we're told) the smarts to address this issue, but instead he's been fucking around for three years grooming himself in style but not substance. That was sort of my point but you stated it so much better than me.

175 @170
OK, based on your analysis, it's pretty clear you didn't read the plan.  It's much more comprehensive than that and, when coupled with phase I, lays out a pretty clear path for growth and freedom. 

176 68

Posted by: Reggie1971 at October 26, 2011 12:38 PM (b68Df)

and mr. Reagan was a liberal is here to tell us we should back Romney or else

 

 

 

Pardon?

177 You're right, I didn't read the plan, and I'm not going to read the plan. Instead I've been reading you and other Perry die-hards explain it and have been relying on the information which you've supplied. Of course, according to the Perry folks, I have simply failed to comprehend those supportive explanations of Perry's plan. Just so you know, I live by the rule that if 10% is good enough for Jesus Christ, it's more than good enough for Uncle Sam. And if the government can't live off that, then so be it. That is conservative. And bold. Seems every one of the Perry die-hards wants me to credit him with being "bold," and yet then argue he's only proposing what can "realistically" be passed into law. You can't have it both ways.

178 What's the point in voting for Romney in the general?  This election is going to be make or break for the country that we love.  Actually, I should say this primary election is going to be make or break.  It will do us no good whatsoever to defeat Obama with Romney.  We'll be just as doomed either way.  At least some of us can say we went down standing for what we believe.  You've got to stand for something...

179 Romney campaigns like he's the front runner.  So far, it has worked.

180 30  I saw a video with Mitt saying he supports Kasich on this issue. It's possible he didn't know how the initiative was worded, and didn't want to comment on it in particular.  How many using the flipflop charge are Perry or Obama supporters? Or just someone wanting to stir things up. Disgusting.

Posted by: lj at October 26, 2011 12:32 PM (lRynF)

Yeah, really disgusting how all these impudent peasants think they can just criticize an entitled and inevitable candidate. Know your places, cave-dwellers! 

181 @177
OK, so your starting position is that you're too lazy to research candidates.
I guess this conversation is over. 



On to other things, from HotAir:

Yet, the poll shows that Obama would best Mitt Romney by 45 percent to 41 percent, Herman Cain by 47 percent to 41 percent and Rick Perry by 47 to 36 percent.

So go with Mitt or Cain and lose by less! 

182 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 26, 2011 01:12 PM (8y9MW)

So why doesn't the RNC set up our debates in more friendly environments, and with, you know, actual conservatives moderating?  It shouldn't take a genius to see that Anderson Cooper and Karen Tumulty are going to take a dump on our candidates.

183 @181 Actually, I guess what I'm stating is that you're not the least bit persuasive.

184 179 Romney campaigns like he's the front runner.  So far, it has worked

That strategy can be used if you have the cooperation of the media, but it has not garnered him any more support.  I recall when Palin had this same problem - of being unable to expand her base of support - she was declared unelectable. 

So Romney may prevail in the primary with a plurality, but we're trusting that this candidate, who has never been vetted in a national election, will somehow magically get a pass from the media in the general.

I just don't buy the electability argument.  He's giving me no reason to reconsider his candidacy and just banking on the ABO votes to win the election.  Well, if it's a case of ABO, then why do I have to settle for someone who doesn't share my core values? 

185 Actually, I guess what I'm stating is that you're not the least bit persuasive.

I gave up on trying to persuade people whose minds are made up.  And, frankly, it never occurred to me that you had not done your homework.  I'm a little surprised you admitted to that. 

186 Once you start telling lies it eventually gets hard to remember them all when you need to construct a new one on the spot.  This is Romney posing for the primary and being as far to the right as he can possibly pretend to be.  For the record Perry is bad about this too but isn't as far out of his comfort zone when he does it.

187 @185 I said I didn't read the plan. Call me crazy, I have never read a politician's plan. Ever. And don't expect to do so. Cookies for you if you did so, but I have better things to do with my time.

188
  Best hope that if Romney does grab the nom that a sizeable chunk of people don't decide to sit this out because they cannot bring themselves to vote for him. That would be a disaster down ticket.

  Without an unassailable majority in both House and Senate (doable, if I read things right) nothing helpful can happen. I mean a majority like the dems enjoyed, btw.

  So does anyone have an answer for that possibility?

189 184 179 Romney campaigns like he's the front runner.  So far, it has worked

So Romney may prevail in the primary with a plurality, but we're trusting that this candidate, who has never been vetted in a national election, will somehow magically get a pass from the media in the general.
Posted by: Y-not at October 26, 2011 01:31 PM (5H6zj)

Que Limbaugh show bumper with John Mclame and The Gray Lady

190

"If he'd forgotten his exact position, his brain would naturally next turn to his basic instincts to answer the question. And it's worrisome to a conservative that his instincts could not supply a good answer."

 

this...

191

178 What's the point in voting for Romney in the general?

 

Two to three Supreme Court selections to begin with.

192 @187
You remind me of the students who used to come to me begging for help because their grades were failing, but who had not done any of the reading or homework.  I learned long ago that it is a waste trying to teach an unprepared mind. 

193

"If he'd forgotten his exact position, his brain would naturally next turn to his basic instincts to answer the question. And it's worrisome to a conservative that his instincts could not supply a good answer."

 

his base instinct is to perserve the status quo, he has to be pushed to do anything else.

 

 

194   Without an unassailable majority in both House and Senate (doable, if I read things right) nothing helpful can happen. I mean a majority like the dems enjoyed, btw.

I don't. 

I don't think the Senate is a lock and, even if we grab it, I don't think the tone of a GOP-controlled Senate will be such that it would drag a centrist like Romney to the right. So we'll have a better situation getting appointments through, but the notion that McConnell, McCain, Hatch, et al are going to make Romney govern to the right just rings hollow to me.  If you look at how the Tea Party freshmen have voted (something that was published  awhile back iirc) you'll find that they are not "mavericks" in their voting patterns.  Even guys like West (on the House side) cast very un-TP votes.

Romney is going to try to manage and tinker his way out of this crisis and I just don't believe that will work. 

195 @192 Your recollection reminds me why our education system is in a shambles.

196

"Tea Party freshmen have voted (something that was published awhile back iirc) you'll find that they are not "mavericks" in their voting patterns."

 

true, and that fills me with a quiet, cold rage.

197 Ace is right:  Romney just forgot to check on the ballot issue before attending and couldn't remember if he had endorsed it or not, and didn't want to make an endorsement off the cuff if he hadn't read it carefully.

When a candidate endorses something like that on the trail, he is endorsing every sentence, every clause, every nuance.  If it turns out there is something in it he doesn't really support, it's too late:  he endorsed it, why do that if he didn't support it fully?

Romney should have done his homework but didn't, and erred on the side of caution.  I think for most conservatives that epitomizes the problem with Romney:  he will always take the safest option, do the least risky thing in the campaign.  Conservatives are looking for something bolder, more direct, right back in Obama's face.

198 Brutal quote from Club for Growth: 

“The big problem many conservatives have with Mitt Romney is that he’s taken both sides of nearly every issue important to us. He’s against a flat tax, now he’s for it. He says he’s against ObamaCare, but was for the individual mandate and susbidies that are central to ObamaCare. He thinks that collective bargaining issues should be left for states to decide if he’s Ohio, but he took the opposite position when he was in New Hampshire. This is just another statement in a long line of statements that will raise more doubts about what kind of President Mitt Romney would be in the minds of many Republican primary voters.”

199
   Has to be Perry for me, then. Right now, getting that majority is as important as winning the Presidency.  But if we do not achieve control plus the Presidency, then that is it for me. No more voting, working for candidates, phone banking--nothing.

  

200 Or maybe Romney did his homework.... This posted by Warden- SB 5 is going down in Ohio. The repeal forces are way ahead according to the polling. I'm from Ohio and I'm utterly disgusted with the voters in this state. Gov Kasich took an 8 billion dollar deficit left behind by Ted Strickland and balanced the state budget WITHOUT RAISING TAXES. His thanks? His favorables are tanking – 52 percent – disapprove of his performance, compared to 36 percent who approve. And now the dipshits in this state are going to undo the limits placed on collective bargaining placed on public employees. It literally makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. ***** I really like Kasich, I think he is VP material but his polling numbers have faded-I've been following it. Romney knows it too I bet-hence the Waffle House. He is only "correcting" after the national backlash...by Republicans.

201

and i must confess i don't see Perry's tax plan as anything to get excited about ... because it still provides enough revenue to support the federal leviathan.

 

what is needed is Tax code that simply doesn't provide enough revenue for the federal government to do anything but what is enumerated in Article 1, Section 8.

 

yeah i know, "Constitutional Crazy-Talk"

 

(... wake me up when the shooting starts.)

202 Romney cannot be trusted, if you are expecting anything close to resembling conservative policy. This Romney debacle is a mere harbinger of things to come. We will be betrayed over and over for the next 4-8 years by Romney, who is no conservative. He is a candidate of last resort only. If Congress followers enjoyed watching McCain make a career out of screwing conservatives and their policies and Senate Bills....then you will love Romney. econus.blogspot.com

203 @200
Well, that's where I am.  And the thing is, I'm considered to be a pragmatist around here, not one of the reddest true-believers.  (So when the Romney folks try to "smear" Perry supporters as being purists or something I just have to laugh.)  But I sincerely believe Perry has the best combination of experience, achievements, and ideology in the group that's running.  The fact that I also personally like him is a big cherry on top. 

I just think it's far too early to make decisions based on some guesses about electability going into the general, which is what we're being asked to do.  And I think some folks are far too eager to declare Perry dead, just as they were also declaring him vulnerable to scandals -- neither of those assertions ring true.  The scandals have not materialized, just allegations.  And if his campaign is so dead, why is Romney deviating from the I'm the front-runner positioning to run attack ads and put up attack web sites? 

Now, if push comes to shove and we're down to four candidates - let's say Romney, Gingrich, Paul, and Perry - and Rick's polling is really bad but Gingrich's has improved, I'll vote for Gingrich in the primary.  I'd rather an establishment politician that has at least some real conservative achievements on the national stage than a one-termer from Massachusetts. 

204 and i must confess i don't see Perry's tax plan as anything to get excited about ... because it still provides enough revenue to support the federal leviathan

Yes, but he is going to make cuts.  He has said the three plans they are weighing - Ryan's, DeMint's, and one compromise plan - and it's clear with regulatory rollbacks and pay freezes, there will be cuts.  So the revenue generated can be used to pay down the debt. 

I also think it's generally accepted that this is the first part of a more comprehensive reform.  They have the option (which has been well-received by the folks I know who are on the fence right now) but the thought is that most will take it and that will make a complete phase out of the old system more palatable. 

Aside from Paul, I don't know which candidate seems more likely to trim the federal government.  Based on his record fighting the Feds, Perry seems to be the one. 

205 It is past time for Perry, Cain, and the rest of the rabble to sit down, shut up, and start supporting the front runner. Anyone but Obama. Romney is the only one who do it.

206

: Dave at October 26, 2011 01:49 PM

And you ahve been in the tank for MIttens since Day 1. Nice to see you admit to not reading a plan that you then condemn. Shows your intelligence in a good light.

 

 

207

Face it Mittens Fans, he flipped flopped in broad daylight within 24 hours.

But it's Perry's fault. Not Mittens.

208 Mittens can't get over 25%....and he is no longer the frontrunner according to Real Clear Politics long term Averaged Polls. Cain is ahead in nearly every poll, nationally, now. He is also ahead by double digits in both Iowa, South Carolina and Ohio. He is also leading in Florida or tied. We have to hear that Mittens is the frontrunner in the liberal propaganda Ministry of a Media that we have...we don't need to here the lies in the blogosphere. econus.blogspot.com

209 No, Romney's strongest suit is flip-flopping, fence-sitting, supporting both sides of every issue, and telling people what he thinks they want to hear.  And, of course, the reason he's not telling the GOP base quite what they want to hear is that he's gambling that none of the various conservative candidates will overcome him, so he's basically running a general election campaign and telling voters in the middle what he thinks they want to hear.  Who knows what Romney really believes.  But if elected, he'd continue to govern for the independents because he'd be running for re-election from day one.  And then in a second term, he'd be running for his "legacy."  At no point should anyone expect a principled stand or principled leadership from Mittens Romney.

210

i'll take Cain over Perry or Romney... but i'm still hoping for and fighting for someone even more conservative than any of those... someone who's gut reaction is Originalist.

maybe i'll write-in Clarence Thomas, i live in Ill. so my vote won't mean anything anyway (except for the locals)

211 Amazing to me that people argue they don't like someone's plan, but have not read it and don't plan on reading it.  That's how everyone got hoodwinked on the 9-9-9 plan.  Oooh and aaah over something for weeks and then have to have someone else tell you that it's not really such a hot plan.  We get what we deserve if we end up with Oblah blah again or a republican who is not really conservative.  Why do you think these plans are put out there if not for people to look at them?

212 just to be clear, I like Cain, but i'm not sold on 999 by any means...

213 Dave & Petunia are my most faithful of AoSHQ disciples.

Many rewards await them on Planet Mittens.

214

I had to look at CNN to find out anything resembling truth on what happened here.

Mitt's actual words were much less flip floppy than any place on the internet is likely to ever give him credit for.

The hate against Romney makes it nearly impossible for most of the internet to cover anything Romney does with any degree of distance.

Therefore, never trust bloggers to get it right about Romney.

At least Ace is keeping his mind open now.  But not until he flip flopped to each of the others one by one...

 

215

Well, thank god Ace was johnny on the spot with the twitter response that fully clarifies Romney's principles.  God forbid Romney should have offered an actual answer to the question, lest he express strong principles that some people could take issue with.  Now that we've successfully dispelled the cloud of uncertainty about Mitt...back to the regularly scheduled programming:  Cain sucks and we must not vote for him. 

216 @212 Very simple. I am not going to waste time reading a plan that I already know is better than anything that Obama and the democrats have to offer. And I don't have to read Perry's plan to know that he is proposing a 20% flat tax which, according to my definition, is not bold. I have to be efficient with the use of my time (just ignore for a moment the fact that I am posting on here). My failure to read Perry's plan doesn't change the fact that proposing a 20% flat tax, while a good start, simply cannot be reasonably described as bold. People who can't defend their claim that it is bold trot out this nonsense about not reading the plan.

217 If I may expound on the general blogosphere consideration of Cain as a candidate: I understand as conservatives we do not view one's color as determinative of their worth or value.  However, it is a proven fact that one of the distinguishing factors for Obama in his supporters' minds is that he is at least partly African American.  If this is the case, why then do not the Roves et al., being the masterminds that they are, bring up the fact that Cain's race deprives the Democrats of using race effectively as an issue in the general election.  I mean Rove loves demographics-based strategizing (e.g. see Bush's hispanic strategy), and this seems like a no-brainer.  Yet, I have not heard one Republican commentator even broach the subject.  Seems racist.

218

 Dave at October 26, 2011 03:08 PM

It takes a real man to admit his ignorance.

/golf clap

219

The fact that Dick Armey was involved was the thing that should have tipped me off that this was a made up controvesy.

Dick Armey hates Mitt with a passion!

Dick Armey was part of the Congress that introduced the Mandate.

Does Dick Armey have a personal interest in painting Romney as a flip flopper or as somehow less than honest?

Yes, Armey is still trying to cover his butt on the mandate.

220 @219 Hey Dick, How does Perry's ass taste?

221

I'm pretty damn sure that Obama is going to win re-election in spite of himself.

I don't see how Romney, or any other GOP candidate wins Ohio, Wisconsin, or Michigan, and I don't see a credible path to election for a Republican without winning at least one, probably two of the three.

Nationwide, I don't think Republicans have any idea of the sh*tstorm that Walker, Kasich, and Snyder have unleashed.  All three of those governors are LOATHED in any household with a significant union connection. 

In national elections, the GOP has to pull a significant majority of the white male vote, which includes a reasonable number of households that include a union member.  If you look at Bush's numbers, he was able to win nearly 50% of the white union vote.  I can't see any of the GOP candidates pulling that type of number in any of those midwestern states, even with Obama's unpopularity.

My guess is that Obama wins a very close election.  The GOP will lose the presidency, but at least they will have stuck it to union members in a few states. 

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227 stickety, I wouldn't fear Unions. First of all they compromise a decreasing percentage of US homes....and the public unions will always vote Dim anyway. 2. Many Union homes will not vote for Obama, because of the Jimmy Cawtah/Reagan Syndrome. In other words...Obama absolutely sucks and is an abject failure. The only thing Obama has to run on is the Media love for him. He has killed the American Worker and the small percentage of Union members as well. econus.blogspot.com