1 I think Jeffress was wrong (politically, not necessarily theologically) but Mitt is just flat out lying about the details. Don't forget that Romney also passive-aggressively hit Perry on the whole n-rock thing. It's bad enough that he's a flip flopping panderer, but when you consider that he's just a flat out liar it makes you wonder how anyone can consider making this slimeball our nominee.

2 This is straight up demagogery on Christie & Romney's part. Diversity doesn't demand agreement unless you're a liberal. Perry already stated he disagrees with what the Pastor said and he is not Perry's pastor. He didn't sit in his pews for 20 years. It's not Perry's job to police the Evangelicals.

3

Man this shit is tireing.

 

4 Perry should demand that Romney repudiate bigamy.

5 Romney could have hit Perry while telling the truth, what's his problem? The base hates this shit.

6 I though hitting something out of the park was good?

7 Didn't Perry's campaign already denounce the comments after they were made?

8 Bryan Preston is FULL OF IT.

In Presidential politics, YOU are responsible for any speaker your campaign signs off on.  If you don't KNOW what the guy is going to say, you go to him and find out or give him a script and get his agreement NOT to say anything off-message for the whole of the conference, or you DON'T approve him.

If Perry's people can't even do that, his campaign is more not-ready-for-prime-time than we realized.

Better to find out now.

Romney is fully within his rights.  If the jackass preacher had called Catholicism a "cult" I would expect a repudiation, too.

9 This has sealed the deal for me. I am not vehemently anti-Romney and anti-Cain. I hate the race card, the religion card, the whatever card being played against republicans as well as those who accept it. The minute you do it, I consider you a libtard or the slimey slithering equivalent,

10 RomneyCare is a cult.  Mormonism is more like Amway with special underwear.

11

Mitt Romney said today that Rick Perry needs to “repudiate” the remarks made by Baptist pastor Robert Jeffress about Mormonism Saturday in his introduction of Perry at the Value Voters Summit.

Or what?

12 I mean I am NOW vehemently anti-Romney and anti-Cain. I was pro. The rock changed my minda against Cain and Romney and this has sealed the deal against Romney.

13 Good thing Perry didn't sit though 20 years of Jeffress' sermons. That might have tainted him.

14 Speaking about Romney’s Massachusetts health-care program, Christie said it was “completely intellectually dishonest” to compare it to Obamacare.


So, it looks like Christie is an "opportunity commenter" when it comes to political items as well.........go figure.

Sorry, fatman.  When the word comes down that the SAME GUYS architected it, you have no chicken leg to stand on.

15 Politics is a rowdy sport.  Enjoy the primaries.

16 Hey Romney. Bite me cult boy!

17 The correct response here is "bite me".

18

Posted by: Adjoran at October 11, 2011 04:26 PM (VfmLu)

 

Load of crap. The Pastor said nothing wrong in his intro. The campaign can't control what someone will say to a reporter and he's not a campaign spokesman anyway.

19 yeah, I don't give a shit.

20

You know why?  They know the built in current that Romney will have to swim against.  It fits with the scheme; divide and conquer.  For these bastards the more they can segment our society and then play to the individual segments and when necessary, pit the segments against each other, the better off they are. 

21 12 I mean I am NOW vehemently anti-Romney and anti-Cain. I was pro. The rock changed my minda against Cain and Romney and this has sealed the deal against Romney.

  I have to say I am more than a little disappointed in the way this is going down. I don't want to vote for Romney or Cain at this time. What a slime Romney is....

22 So, according to Adjoran, a candidate is responsible for everything that their supporters say, even the remarks that are made in non-public settings. Good to know.

23 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

And it's this kind of bald-faced dishonesty which really puts Mittens over-the-top for me.  Everything he stated as fact (except the comments themselves) was incorrect.  So either he's misinformed (not good) or lying (worse).

Romney is fully within his rights.  If the jackass preacher had called Catholicism a "cult" I would expect a repudiation, too.

Bull crap.  First off, you're positing something that has about zero chance of happening.  What if he'd called Islam a cult?  Should they expect a complete repudiation?  There are people on this blog who would agree 100% that it is.

Second, Perry did immediately say that he did not believe that Mormonism is a cult.  A full repudiation is not, and should not be, necessary.  He didn't choose Jeffress (the summit did), and he never asked Jeffress to say anything on his behalf.

24 Perry should ask Romney why he stayed a Mormon while they were excluding black from the priesthood.

25 Perry should demand that Romney stop being a cockholster, but a leopard can't actually change it's spots. Nor can a fly stop eating shit.

26 obama is the enemy boys. keep your eye on the ball. please don't piss this victory away.

27 "Rev. JeffressÂ’ remark that Mormonism is a cult was not made in his introduction to Gov. Perry, but in remarks made to reporters later. As soon as he was aware of JeffressÂ’ remark, Perry did in fact disassociate himself with them entirely."


Not the way it was reported so I just learned something.

Mitt is a dumb ass.  And he needs to shut up before someone really looks into this nut roll cult he belongs to.

28 i'll denounce it, when Obama denounces Black Liberation Theology

29

 The correct response here is "bite me".

I would have thought the correct response would be "You gonna repudiate government health care?"

30 In Presidential politics, YOU are responsible for any speaker your campaign signs off on.  If you don't KNOW what the guy is going to say, you go to him and find out or give him a script and get his agreement NOT to say anything off-message for the whole of the conference, or you DON'T approve him.

If Perry's people can't even do that, his campaign is more not-ready-for-prime-time than we realized.

Better to find out now.

Romney is fully within his rights.  If the jackass preacher had called Catholicism a "cult" I would expect a repudiation, too.

Posted by: Adjoran at October 11, 2011 04:26 PM (VfmLu)

Uh, you might want to read a little closer.  Put all the pixels together this time...

The Perry campaign did not select Rev. Jeffress; the Summit selected him and got a perfunctory sign-off from the campaign. Rev. JeffressÂ’ remark that Mormonism is a cult was not made in his introduction to Gov. Perry, but in remarks made to reporters later. As soon as he was aware of JeffressÂ’ remark, Perry did in fact disassociate himself with them entirely.

31 Maybe Bilbo will run for the nomination.

32 Eh...Romney....this isn't helping you, this sort of nit-pickery. You'll not get my vote, for a whole host of reasons.

I really am starting to despise the man. I voted for him in the last primary.

33 Is McCain still eligible?

34 Perry should ask Romney why he stayed a Mormon while they were excluding blacks from the priesthood.

Fixed.

35 I really hopes this hurts Romney.  People should be able to see through this crap.  It's underhanded on the part of Romney and it speaks directly to his deficit of true character, imo.  Hell, we knew his convictions were fluid.  He's always said what he thought he had to, to who he thought he had to, and when he thought he had to.  We will have Bush Xtra-Lite with Romney, imo.

36

Romney raising this issue again will hurt Perry but it will hurt Romney as well. 

Like Bachmann's injection issue hurt both candidates.

Putting the religious beliefs and practices of Mormons in play will not help Romney in the long run.  Most GOP voters just think of Mormons as moral, with traditional values, but the fact is Mormons have some hard to explain practices and beliefs.  Romney does not want to get into a running defense of Mormon theology. 

 

  

 

37 Wait, is Mormonism NOT a cult?

What's a cult?  Isn't Jeffress just using the word C-word to mean a bunch of people following some bullshit some guy just made up?

I mean, is there a non-Mormon in the entire world who thinks Joseph Smith jr.'s Book of Mormon isn't a bunch of made-up hogwash?

Of course it is.

Just like Scientology is a cult.  Right?  L.Ron Hubbard just made up Scientology out of thin air. 

But if you call either of those things cults, then you have to consider that Islam is a cult.  And so is Judaism.  And Christianity.  And Hinduism.  Etc.


So maybe he's just using the word less to describe Mormonism but more to marginalize it.  Because, after all, it would be hypocritical for a believer in one religion to ridicule the believer of another.

38 It gets worse: Buddy Roemer is expected to join the Occupy Wall Street protesters in New York. The sun doesn't shine as bright today, my favorite foods no longer taste as good - it's like all the joy has gone out of my life. I haven't felt this betrayed asince they told me George Michael is a queer.

39 I'm still waiting for Romney to apologize for Harry Reid and burning all them wagon trains. Until them, screw'im.

40 Perry: "Nice try"

41 The problem with RomneyÂ’s version of what happened is that itÂ’s almost entirely untrue. Hmm, that could prove to be a key point.

42 which in thus hurts Jeffress' second goal, or will not say either way, which will hurt Perry, at least with voters who are against the idea of a religious test

Romney supporters like to use Article Six to dismiss his Mormonism but that's not what it's about. Nothing wrong with looking at someones religion when making a decision to vote for or against them.

43 Romney is the choice of libtards. That is the bitter bill they will swallow. Romney is a central planner, the elites' choice, and the dems choice. And for all of those fucking reasons, I could care less if he is a mormon. Or a fucking hooterite.

44 My state does mail-in voting.  Does it invalidate my ballot if I write "WTF are we thinking" in red next to Romney's name if he's our nominee? 

45 It's times like this that make me glad I'm Jewish

46 I like Romney. He is one of us.

47 >>>In Presidential politics, YOU are responsible for any speaker your campaign signs off on.  If you don't KNOW what the guy is going to say, you go to him and find out or give him a script and get his agreement NOT to say anything off-message for the whole of the conference, or you DON'T approve him.

>>>If Perry's people can't even do that, his campaign is more not-ready-for-prime-time than we realized.

Yeah, not buying it either.  Tony Perkins was quite clear on how the process went: they suggested Jeffress to Perry and his team because they knew he was Perry's pastor and that he would endorse him.  They asked Perry for the okay on it, and Perry said "sounds great."  Sorry, but that's 'ownership' right there.  Jeffress hasn't exactly been shy in the past about his views on Mormonism -- if Perry's team GENUINELY didn't know that he would go off on a tear like this (or if they didn't even consider the possibility) then, seriously, is this supposed to be something that gets them off the hook?  It's stunning, campaign-crippling incompetence AT BEST, and something more sinister at worst. 

I'm actually pretty certain the "incompetence" explanation is the correct one, simply on the logic that Perry's team would have known an anti-Mormon rant would backfire had they considered the possibility, but so what?  It happened, and now Romney gets to tie it around Perry's neck.  This ain't beanball, and the attack was hatefully offensive.

As for Romney calling on Perry to repudiate Jeffress?  I'm a bit amused to see dagny getting his (her?) panties in a bunch about it -- it's called politics.  And, to be perfectly honest, I found Jeffress' comments to be thoroughly insulting, and maybe just a little bit short of outright revolting.   We expected the "Mormon card" to played against Mitt Romney -- but we didn't expect it to be played against by someone on our own team.  That was supposed to be Obama's low blow.  Why do we all cordially loathe Mike Huckabee, after all?  He broke the same rule, and we never forgot it. 

But now, because Romney's the guy people don't want to see win the nomination, and Perry's the theoretically more conservative candidate, I guess the same rules kinda sorta don't really apply anymore.

48 Not the way it was reported so I just learned something.

Of course it wasn't the way it was reported.  It was reported by the MFM and Romney's camp.  However, it didn't take long (if you read a full article instead of just the first few paragraphs, or listened to a whole segment on yesterday's news) to find out the truth: Jeffress made his comments directly to the press after Perry spoke.

Indeed, the only reason it can be "tied" to Perry at all is that Dr. Jeffress gave the introduction to Perry's speech.  Had he been chosen to provide the introduction to, say, Mr. Cain's speech or Mrs. Bachman's, this would either have stuck to them or (more likely) not have been a story in the first place.

49 Even this blog seems to have fallen to their ploy of making it about trivial things and anything except the economy.

50 If marrying 3 women and believing in child sacrifice is cultist, count me in.

51

  Hell, we knew his convictions were fluid.  He's always said what he thought he had to, to who he thought he had to, and when he thought he had to.

That's probably the nicest way I've ever seen anyone be called a bullshit artist.

52 I have known I didn't like Romney for a long time. I now know Christie can suck it too.

53

I watched the Christie endorsement and was getting close to lining up behind Romney after hearing Christie speak. Then in the questions they both lost me again goddamnit.

Romney lied about the entire cult thing and then Christie jumped in and said yeah it's just like when I appointed the muzzie.

Jeebus.

54 It's interesting, though, that bringing stuff like this into the open so often backfires. There's some kind of lesson in that.

It'll be more interesting to see, if by some disaster Romney gets the nomination, what consequence rubbing his cult in the noses of the GOP voting base has. Ace wouldn't understand, but there are a lot of people who put their loyalty to God first and won't stand up to be counted with His enemies no matter what the fiscal situation may be.

Put in terms you might understand, humiliating a large swath of the voting base (which seems to be the establishment goal here) is not a good means of encouraging the have your back in the general election.

There's no upside for anyone here.

55 Christie is showing his true colors which any observant soul would have seen when he allowed himself to be re-educated on global warming. The whole question about this election is whether it's an ideology election or an electability election. Limbaugh says it's ideology time -- get the conservative cause he'll win. Rove and others obviously think he's wrong. I'm with Limbaugh. Roll the dice. We lose, we lose. Obama will be done after this one and so will Democrats for 40 years. We win, we win big. But if we put a Romney in there, we win small.

56 JeffB always resides under 150 lines of text. He must some kind of mole.

57 Perry should ask Romney why he stayed a Mormon while they were excluding blacks from the priesthood.

Heh. Romney should be called on to repudiate Joseph Smith's obvious racism.

58 I look forward to voting for Romney.

59 What channel is this thing on?  Do I need special rabbit ears?  Or as they say in Canada, BUNNY ears?

60 Let's hear what the People's Temple folks have to say about all this "cult" business...

_*crickets*

61 Let's hear what the Branch Davidian folks have to say about all this "cult" business...

_*crickets*

62 Debka ( yeah I know ) is reporting that the Israel-Hamas deal to release Shalit and 1000 terrorists was brokered by the US and entails the US getting chummy with Hamas. I believe it. Still think is is such a great deal?

63 Someone needs to ask Romney if he thinks Perry is a true Christian. Mormons don't, you know, accept those outside the faith. Put the cultist bastard on the spot.

64

Because, after all, it would be hypocritical for a believer in one religion to ridicule the believer of another.

If that's what you think, then you don't know a whole lot about theology.

65

Posted by: Heretics Local 666 at October 11, 2011 04:39 PM (ieDPL)

Silly rabbit, Romney isn't the Antichrist; he's the anti-SCOAMF.

66 Posted by: Secundus at October 11, 2011 04:36 PM (dEtCk)

I'm going to put it in a card and send it to him then.

67 This will hurt Romney in the primaries and it should. He is an idiot. Trying to play the victim card. Won't work unless Perry grovels. Mormonism just became an unspoken /not-shown-in-the-polls primary election issue.

68 This is the kind of whiney shit I expect from DemonRats. Man up Mitt, if you're going to be the nominee then quit being so damn oily.

69 Is Mormonism a cult?

70 But if you call either of those things cults, then you have to consider that Islam is a cult.  And so is Judaism.  And Christianity.  And Hinduism.  Etc. No, shit-for-brains. We don't. Words have meaning. Put that weak-ass shit back in your man purse, mince on home and get your fucking shinebox.

71

And he needs to shut up before someone really looks into this nut roll cult he belongs to.

Fuck you and your two inbred brain cells, you mewling puss.

72

Vote for Mitt Romney.  He's been running for the past 4 years.  The base hates him and he can't answer a simple question to save his life, but hey.  Maybe just maybe he won't depress Republican voters as Obama will depress Democrats. 

If that doesn't seal the deal then I don't know what will.

73 Romney's victim play is dangerous. Perry should go for the home run, ask him if he agrees that we all become gods, ask about Joseph Smith's polygamy (and Brigham Young's), and about all the other crazy stuff Mormons believe.

74
These idiots are stuck in the 20th century.

75

Why is it that Republicans are more likely to attack each other, and defend themselves aggresively against each other, than they are to lay a finger on the ass of Obama?

Romney's best play is to set it up as Romney versus Cain.

76 Still think is is such a great deal?

It is because there are, for all intents and purposes, an infinite supply of the terrorists that are being let go; it's not like there will be an uptick in terrorism.

77

I just hope that whoever the nominee is goes after Obama with 1/1000th of the energy they are all going after each other.

Also, protip to Romney's campaign, if you want people to stop thinking you are an opportunistic weasel who will bend the facts to fit whatever you want, well, stop freaking lying about stuff. 

 

78 What about me? I'm Mormon too.

79 Doomed. Romney is unelectable. 2008 all over again.

80

Here is what Perry NEEDS to say.

In America we have Freedom of Religion.  Just as Mitt Romney is free to believe as he does, it is NOT MY PLACE to comment on the Preachers Religious Beliefs, nor INFRINGE his FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

If you have questions about what the Preacher said, I suggest you talk to him, I have a campaign to run.

81 But the global warming scam is a cult. Oh, not that religion? Government healthcare is a cult. Not that religion, either?

82 This really makes me sad. obama is the enemy guys, not other Republicans, no matter what you think of them. Don't blow this

83
Who is advising these shitheads??

84

72 Thanks Jeff. I was just getting around to that but the stupid was so strong I was trying to figure out how to approach it. And to

71 Why do you want to know? Joining? Writing a paper?

85

Mormonism is most closely associated with fairy tails pulled wholesale outta some dude named Joseph Smith's ass.

86 But if you call either of those things cults, then you have to consider that Islam is a cult.  And so is Judaism.  And Christianity.  And Hinduism.  Etc.

It would take several (very long) blog posts, but I can actually provide Logical, Philosophical (in the classic sense) reasoning that states that Judaism and Christianity are not "just made up."  For the record.

And, no, there is a "technical" definition of cult- one which Mormonism once met, but no longer does (IIRC).

because they knew he was Perry's pastor and that he would endorse him.

Except that he's not Perry's pastor (it would be very difficult for a Baptist pastor in Dallas to be the pastor of the Governor who actually hails from West Texas).  So, at most, they knew he would endorse Perry.  Perry, for his part, probably knows nothing about Dr. Robert Jeffress beyond the fact that he was involved with the Day of Prayer (if he even knows that much).

87 So maybe he's just using the word less to describe Mormonism but more to marginalize it.  Because, after all, it would be hypocritical for a believer in one religion to ridicule the believer of another. Posted by: seattle slough

No, because the use of 'cult' is as a perjorative. I know you know the difference, and you are being an obtuse Leftist ... but I repeat myself.

What you don't know is that we're going to pick an asshole and he's going to drub your ManChild next November.

Be sure to stock up on Kleenex, turdmuffin.

88 71
Is Mormonism a cult?

  Well that's debatable. They   used to exclude Blacks and they had some strange beliefs. I guess you could call almost every Religion a cult. The point here is There is going to be a lot of this cult talk once Romney gets the nod.The media has just been cooling their jets waiting for this to happen. Of course this is just my opinion...

89 @86 Just wanting to know if what the preacher said is true.

90 The American presidential primary season.  There's nothing in the world like it.  I thank God that we can still have these trivial cat fights.

91 I demand Romney repudiate comments that he said that piss me off.

92

This guy Jeffries is a dumb-bunny, but I wish Mitt would have shut up about the whole thing.

I understand why Mitt wants to drag the troglodytes out of the woodwork.  Because it probably benefits him politically to have them spew their contempt in the public eye.

But its bad for America and, frankly, it strikes me as cynically using the Faith as a means to an end.

Come on, Mitt.  You can't be that desperate.

93 Perry should just reply that Romney's chickens have come hoooommmme to roooooost!

94 Ben's comment in the sidebar about not mountain biking in Africa...

I want that to be Romney.  Maybe two bucks.

95 The funny thing is, the Republican Party is more conservative in its temperament than it is in its politics.  I think they would be willing to support a Romney nomination if he can keep from being shrill and off-base with this kind of nonsense.  Perry could really turn this non-issue into a win by simply being an adult about it.

96

Also, protip to Romney's campaign, if you want people to stop thinking you are an opportunistic weasel who will bend the facts to fit whatever you want, well, stop freaking lying about stuff. 

 

Posted by: alexthechick at October 11, 2011 04:42 PM (VtjlW)

I know, I watched the Christie thing and said ok this guy can win, he's smart, the polls show he can win so fine I am going with him. Then bang, the fucker lied again.

What the f*ck, it has to be a character trait.

97 Forget Mitt and his obamacare blueprint.  bastard.


In other news, project veritas has o'keefe over on wall street.  pretty funny.  its like capitalism or something.

98
in b4 the revelation that Christmas is a pagan holiday!

*I hear this every year. And the a-hole who says it, either online or in person, says it like s/he just discovered the information and no one ever heard it before.

99

Perry should go for the home run, ask him if he agrees that we all become gods, ask about Joseph Smith's polygamy (and Brigham Young's), and about all the other crazy stuff Mormons believe.

 

Home run, dude!  Perry could then really seal the deal by asking Mitt why he doesn't believe in Young Earth Creationism.  Zing!

100 Pagin Al Sharpton to the off white youtube phone http://tinyurl.com/3exf9om If you and Sharpton are on the same side of an issue you are probably on the wrong side of history.

101 I never thought I'd see the day when dagny channeled the "Rev." Jerry Wright.    ;-)

102 Maybe Romney should look into the hat of Mormon and see what the it says. Fooking kooks.

103

because they knew he was Perry's pastor and that he would endorse him.

Except that he's not Perry's pastor (it would be very difficult for a Baptist pastor in Dallas to be the pastor of the Governor who actually hails from West Texas). So, at most, they knew he would endorse Perry. Perry, for his part, probably knows nothing about Dr. Robert Jeffress beyond the fact that he was involved with the Day of Prayer (if he even knows that much).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 11, 2011 04:43 PM (8y9MW)

Gee, you mean Seattle Stupid was wrong on the facts and doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.  I'm shocked I tell ya.

104 So Romney wants repudiation, huh? Well how about this: Perry asks him to repudiate all the Mormon lunacy out there, the golden tablets, the polygamy, the lost tribe stuff, the we become gods stuff, the saving the dead. Go for broke, Rick. Do it with a smile but you must put this man on the spot.

105 Gee Ace, this sounds exactly like what Krautstupid was spouting:

This is one of the reasons I can not stand neocon Krauthammer

Krauthammer: Perry should sever ties with Mormon-denouncing pastor

Krauthammer stressed that Perry is now connected with Jeffress, and said that the candidate now must publicly rebuke the reverend. “It isn’t quite enough to say he doesn’t agree,” Krauthammer said. “Like it or not, he’s associated with the Rev. Jeffress.”

What ties Krautstupid? He is not PerryÂ’s pastor. Perry doesnÂ’t pal around with him. And hell, they are not even in the same religious denomination. The only tie he has is a fictitious one that asshole Romney supporters in the media keep pushing. Does Romney need to break ties with Obama?  After all, they have more in common than Perry and this other asshole.

So piss on Krautstupid and piss double on Romney asshole and all his loud and obnoxious bots. You would would thing the 4 or 5 supporters he has here were thousands from all the posts and noise they make.

106 Herman Cain must be licking his lips and having a good laugh watching Perry and Romney destroy each other.

107 Perhaps Pastor Jeffress should only make such comments from his own church's pulpit. This episode has hurt Perry.

108 >>>It'll be more interesting to see, if by some disaster Romney gets the nomination, what consequence rubbing his cult in the noses of the GOP voting base has. Ace wouldn't understand, but there are a lot of people who put their loyalty to God first and won't stand up to be counted with His enemies no matter what the fiscal situation may be.

Wait a second, let me get this straight -- so you're saying that Mitt Romney, as a MORMON (not as a RINO or anything, but rather as a Mormon) is an "enemy of God?"   And a cult member?

If I'm reading this correctly, then yo, straight up: go fuck yourself.

109 I heard that Palin was going to interrupt the debate and do the Macerena.

110 I'm pretty sure that's "refudiate".

111 if Perry's team GENUINELY didn't know that he would go off on a tear like this (or if they didn't even consider the possibility) then, seriously, is this supposed to be something that gets them off the hook? Posted by: Jeff B.

How is Perry supposed to be responsible for what the dick said after his remarks? What if the dick said it the next day?

Let's just get the standard down for all to be aware: candidates are responsible for everything their supporters say.

Sound good, JeffB?

112 >>>JeffB always resides under 150 lines of text. He must some kind of mole.

Okay, now this made me laugh.  Well-played, my friend.

113 Perry already said he didn't think Mormonism is a cult.

Mormonism should not be a topic in this election.

Perry doesn't have to repudiate anyone's faith.  Just about every faith is mutually exclusive of other faiths.  Non mormons do not think Mormons are correct, and Mormons don't think non mormons are correct.  This shouldn't offend us.  We just need to keep this conversation about policies instead of religion.

It is not surprising that Romney plays victim hustle like a democrat.

What Perry should do is say he is more interested in the kinds of pandering you will find if you click the link on my name, such as Romney pandering directly for more goodies than Obama is giving folks.

Perry hasn't raised anyone's race or religion.  He owes no more apologies than Mccain owed Obama when folks claimed he was a muslim.

114 Ben's comment in the sidebar about not mountain biking in Africa... I want that to be Romney. Maybe two bucks. Obama. I figure a butterfly should do it.

115 Jeffress was clear that Perry didn't know what he was saying in the interview after his introduction.
Perry said after his speech that he didn't agree that Mormonism was a cult. His team released a statement. Perry won't apologize for something The Head of the Baptist Convention says...sheeesh!

Romney is an ass trying to recover from Perry's monday ad and this morning's leak about his own hired Romneycare advisers meeting at the WH in 09' 12 times to discuss implementing Obamacare. That is gonna stick. Conservatives aren't gonna have Romney shoved down their throats...Nope!

Gig Em'

116 Well this has been eye-opening! wow.

117 91 @86

Just wanting to know if what the preacher said is true.

Posted by: Dave at October 11, 2011 04:44 PM (Xm1aB)

OK. But it doesn't matter and shouldn't be pursued by a candidate because we don't have religious tests in America. Secondly, if Rev Wright gets a pass so does everyone else.

118 the guy didn't say the cult stuff on stage during his Perry intro ...  he gave a personal opinion to reporters later ...  nothing for Perry to do beyond what he has already done ...

119 Obama is a stutteringclusterfuckofamiserablefailure but I'm wondering about the Republican partys ability to not be.

120 The media has just been cooling their jets waiting for this to happen. Of course this is just my opinion...

Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at October 11, 2011 04:44 PM (5Wl/f)

CNN probably has their little graphics package from 2008 ready to go from when Romney had a press conference about his faith and they ran it side by side.

121 I heard that Palin was going to interrupt the debate and do the Macerena.

If she does, I'm done with her.

An Argentine Tango, on the other hand...

122 Diversity doesn't demand agreement.

How dare Romney condemn the freedom of Americans to believe other faiths?

It's none of Romney's damn business.  Romney can waste his time hassling anti mormon arguments, but Perry never made any argument relating to Mormonism of any kind.

123

Here is what Perry NEEDS to say.

In America we have Freedom of Religion.  Just as Mitt Romney is free to believe as he does, it is NOT MY PLACE to comment on the Preachers Religious Beliefs, nor INFRINGE his FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

If you have questions about what the Preacher said, I suggest you talk to him, I have a campaign to run.

 

The last sentence isn't bad.  The first part is sub-zero stupid.  Freedom of Speech doesn't mean what you think it means, since the Founders weren't drooling morons.

124 Hold your fire. The mainstream media will devour Romney once he has the nomination. He is unelectable. He won't pull northern states or pull southern swing states back. The reason Darth Rove selected him is he cannot possibly be elected.

125 Fucking idiots. The Golden Rule of Politics goes both ways.

126 in b4 the revelation that Christmas is a pagan holiday!

You'll be hearing from our lawyers, asshole.

127 Doomed. Romney is unelectable. 2008 all over again.

Posted by: Frodo Bin Laden at October 11, 2011 04:42 PM (ieDPL)

 

Don't give up.  The primary season will run on into the convention.  I truly believe that our nominee will be chosen there.  This is going to be a close race.   

128 Second look at Dyophysitism?

129 On a real note, I think Perry should ask Willard how he plans to win MA. The answer should be a real winner with the base. Goes something like this: "Governor, how will you avoid becoming the Al Gore of the Republican Party by winning MA?" Its both securlar and pertinent, unlike Romney's whinning.

130

"Romney seems to be demanding much more than a simple "disassociation," though. He basically wants Perry to repudiate and scold his base."

 

just like your typical progressive, facts don't matter, truth doesn't matter, all that matters is the story i want to tell.

131

Well how about this: Perry asks him to repudiate all the Mormon lunacy out there, the golden tablets, the polygamy, the lost tribe stuff, the we become gods stuff, the saving the dead.

Why, yes.  Because if Perry starts spouting the dumb anti-Mormon cliches of the bottom-half of the evangelical bell curve, his election is assured.  Assured.

132
the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight

133 You know, for the first time, I am beginning to think the Republicans may just f*cking lose this thing. You mean to tell me this is the best we can do for candidates to take on Obama? God help us.

134 103 I never thought I'd see the day when dagny channeled the "Rev." Jerry Wright.    ;-)

Posted by: Sean Bannion at October 11, 2011 04:46 PM (sbV1u)

Everyone of these "religion" questions should be steered back to Rev Wright, liberation theology and socialism, and chickens, roosts et al. Period.

135 You know what would be awesome? IF ONE OF OUR CANDIDATES WOULD ATTACK OBAMA MORE THAN HE ATTACKED ANOTHER GOP CANDIDATE. I dunno... Maybe like 2 for 1? Hmm? Something like that? Can we maybe MENTION that the fuckknob in the White House needs to go?

136 Holy underwear.

137

"You mad, bro?"

 

Rick Perry's response.

138

What Perry needs to say:

"Right now, U6 is over 15%, the country is drowning in debt, and the federal government has grown 25% in the past three years, and you are worried about me denouncing what some pastor said to a reporter, or some racist graffiti on a rock that my father removed more than two decades ago?  Grow up, and start giving some solutions, instead of playing the democrat pity game."

139 It's times like this that make me glad I'm Jewish Posted by: nevergiveup

heh, well .. reform ,conservative or Orthodox?

140 What are that racist rock's views on Mormons?

141 The good Pastor was well known for his position on LDS and Perry did work with him on the Day Of Prayer contrary to what AllenG says. Also the Pastor inferred in his introduction that Romney was not a Christian. That said, I think Romney should have let this be.

142 137
You know, for the first time, I am beginning to think the Republicans may just f*cking lose this thing.

You mean to tell me this is the best we can do for candidates to take on Obama?

God help us.   Don't worry too much Dave, we are still talking about running against Sparky here. Hell Newt could murder this turd in a general.

143

You can darn well believe that the left and the MFM will be exposing all the strange mormon beliefs once Romney is nominated. 

I've worked closely with several mormons.  Wait until people hear of some of their beliefs.  Did you know that a good mormon is a god in training who will one day rule their own planet?  Did you know that their women will be eternally pregnant?  Do you know about the very isolated 2 year "missions" their children are required to go on?  All of this, and more, will be exposed and ridiculed by the left.

144 131 "This is going to be a close race." Uh, not really. Obama is topping out at 42% right now. The other 58% aren't going to be joining him any time soon.

145 Holy underwear.

Posted by: Batman at October 11, 2011 04:52 PM (ieDPL)

are you Batman?

146 @135 I think a comparison of Mormon belief with that of the bottom half of the evangelical bell-curve as you put it would shine favorably on the evangelical.

147
Zero zero zero? In Santorum-stan, roads build you!

148 I am offering in state tuition for heretics of all stripes.

149 I guess Willard plans on offsetting his MA loss with a big win in Utah. Great strategery.

150 Mitt sounds like Obama crying 'racist.'

151
If tonight's debate goes the way we suspect it will go, the White House is lost.

After tonight, we ought to concentrate on winning the Senate and keeping the House. Because no one in that gang of fools on the stage tonight can defeat Obama.

152 >>>How is Perry supposed to be responsible for what the dick said after his remarks? What if the dick said it the next day?

>>>Let's just get the standard down for all to be aware: candidates are responsible for everything their supporters say.

>>>Sound good, JeffB?

No, no, I get your point: it gets them off the hook in the sense of moral culpability.  Fair enough -- and yes, that is important.  But it sure doesn't advertise as to their intelligence or campaign acumen, which is really flippin' important.  Why is it that we keep saying Herman Cain can't be a serious candidate, after all?  Not just because he lacks experience, but because he makes gaffes, tons of gaffes, unforced errors.  THIS is a mother of an unforced error -- as I said later on in my post, I don't think it was intentional, I think Perry's team are genuinely not that sharp -- and it speaks to a candidate and a campaign that, as we have seen over and over, ain't ready for prime-time.

Oh, and I've got news for you: in the real world, campaigns pretty much ARE on the hook for really controversial stuff that their major supporters say.  That's not fair, it's just the way politics works. Remember how we spent a week hanging Hoffa's (quite analogous) remarks around the neck of Barack Obama?

153 Santorum needs to go away. Hasn't he run out of money yet?

154 You know, a person's religion really is fair game. Let's say a guy's a Satanist ... doesn't that matter? Let's say he's in a real cult (theological & sociological) that drinks Kool Aid and wears Nike shoes ... doesn't that matter? Mormons are nice people, usually. But ask Jon Krakauer what they're like when you criticize their religion.

155 soothie, o sure, make me pull my hair out!

156

What are that racist rock's views on Mormons?

The racist rock is too stoned to be coherant but was heard to mumble something about magic underwear. It then retreated into stoney silence before it gathered moss.

157 Uh, mormons aren't christians.  Neither are Scientologists, buddhists, or wiccans.  What's the debate on that?  Christians have this thing called the Bible.  Mormons have this thing called the Book of Mormon.  Joseph Smith came up with Mormonism.  L. Ron Hubbard came up with Scientology.  I heard the reverend give a quite calm and lucid explanation for his cult phrase.  Sounded much brighter than any of the commentators and media.  The "conservative" radio host appeared to have no idea of any tenets or beliefs of mormonism.  He seemed to think they were lutherans who liked to get married.

158 I am offering in state tuition for heretics of all stripes.

You're 800 years too late.

159 TuesdayÂ’s debate in New Hampshire, sponsored by Bloomberg News and The Washington Post Hey, guys (Hey, guys) I have an idea for the debate (I have an idea for the debate) Mormonism (Mormonism)

160

#148

I've worked closely with several mormons.  Wait until people hear of some of their beliefs.  Did you know that a good mormon is a god in training who will one day rule their own planet?  Did you know that their women will be eternally pregnant?  Do you know about the very isolated 2 year "missions" their children are required to go on? 

 

And 'by worked closely' you meant you read Decker or some other pulp anti-Mormon purple prose guy.

Anyway, dude, because I like you, I promise that when I take your wife to populate my planet, I'll get her a good doula.

161 @162 Lutherans who like to get married......lol

162 well can Perry just toss the ball back, as in What do Mormons think about catholic or babtists? is it a true faith?


all this stinks . gah

163 This is absolutely more ginned up BS from the MFM. I hope that none of the real Republican Party is influenced by it.

I really do not give a shit what the 4% or 5% Romneybots think anyway.

164 We all need to stop labelling everybody! Morons!

165 @165 Are those Mormon beliefs or not? I don't know, but if they are, yeah, we're gonna have a problem if Romney is the nominee.

166 You know what would be awesome? IF ONE OF OUR CANDIDATES WOULD ATTACK OBAMA MORE THAN HE ATTACKED ANOTHER GOP CANDIDATE. I dunno... Maybe like 2 for 1? Hmm? Something like that? Can we maybe MENTION that the fuckknob in the White House needs to go? Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 11, 2011 04:52 PM (0yt4x) Amen. What's wrong with everyone here. obama is the enemy

167 This is why I worship the sun.

168 Uh, mormons aren't christians.  Neither are Scientologists, buddhists, or wiccans.

Neither is Greek Orthodox.

169 156  After tonight, we ought to concentrate on winning the Senate and keeping the House. Because no one in that gang of fools on the stage tonight can defeat Obama.

Soothie, Newt can pull the chestnuts out of the fire if it is required. Team him with a solid VP (Pretraus?) and let him go on automatic. Not only will Sparky be seen running for cover but the entire Dem ticket will be ducking. Funny thing about media smears, once they have been played they lose their effect the second time around. Just ask Hillary.

170 IF ONE OF OUR CANDIDATES WOULD ATTACK OBAMA MORE THAN HE ATTACKED ANOTHER GOP CANDIDATE.



seconded

171
Why do I have this funny feeling that Romney is going to be a one term president if he makes it to the White House.

172 Here is what I don't get with the way Romney criticize besides what Ace mentioned.  He wants no religious test but wants to give a religious test to Perry.

173 seconded

Posted by: willow at October 11, 2011 04:59 PM (h+qn

third

174 This is why I worship the sun.

/high five

175

Of course, another way to read this episode is that Perry, although successful in Texas in elections, isn't quite ready for the national political stage, while Romney is one tough SOB who has with a lot of savvy kept Perry on the defensive for the past month.  

In other words, while I hate the "gotcha" move on race or religion, I weirdly like the fact that Romney looks like a guy who is willing to play hardball.   It ain't beanbag, after all. 

176 The good Pastor was well known for his position on LDS and Perry did work with him on the Day Of Prayer contrary to what AllenG says. Also the Pastor inferred in his introduction that Romney was not a Christian.

Ummm... I did say he worked with him on the Day of Prayer.  My real question is how much they actually worked together, and how much was "have your people call my people."  The point being there is no evidence that the two are well acquainted with each other.

Rick Perry is the Governor of the State of Texas.  With all the work that entails.  Dr. Jeffress is the pastor of one of the largest Baptist Churches in Dallas.  With all the work that entails.

That means, even working closely together on the Day of Prayer, they may not know each other beyond that specific event.  I don't know, and no one has shown any evidence that they do.

And there is a vast difference between an implication (not inference: I imply something when I use subtext in a comment, you infer it when you hear it)- which no one has complained about, btw- and the actual "LDS is a Cult" statement- which people are and Perry has already denounced that to the degree it should be necessary.

BTW- Polynikes: what was it you were saying about RomneyCare not being all that similar to ObamaCare?  Because a couple of the guys who crafted what actually got implemented in MA disagree with you.

177 You see what kind of slime Romney is? By the time this is over, he will write every Democrat attack ad for the next 10 years.

He's already let everybody know he's cool with the GOP being smeared as racists.
Now he's coming right out and letting everybody know that a big part of the GOP is chock-full of Bible-thumping religious bigots.

11th Commandment? That fucker don't care, it's his turn.

And you Cain folks, you all need to take a serious, serious look at how you can support a guy who has nothing but nice things to say about Romney. You need to ask yourself why he can support a guy who's done what Romney has done but hates Perry for, well, vague shit and stuff.

Hey, polynikes, get yer ass in here and tell us again how Romney is awesome and we don't know jack-shit about his real conservative record.

178 The poll discussed on F&F early this morn said any one of the top 3 Republicans would beat Obama. What Gretchen could not choke down was that the poll had Perry beating him by the widest margins.

179

I think a comparison of Mormon belief with that of the bottom half of the evangelical bell-curve as you put it would shine favorably on the evangelical

In that said evangelical would finely be exposed to some light, you betcha.

Look, I'm glad that some pretty dimwitted people have found some religious consolation in life, and if believing dimwitted scare stories about Mormons helps them along, so be it.  Christianity shouldn't only be for logical, literate, educated people, I get that.

180 Something. (Just got that empty post message. FU, Ace.)

181 131 "This is going to be a close race."

Uh, not really. Obama is topping out at 42% right now. The other 58% aren't going to be joining him any time soon.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at October 11, 2011 04:53 PM (deaac)

 

Hmmm.  Please read my comment again.  I believe I was talking about the repub primaries.

182 I'm not sure our lame-assed candidates actually need to attack the Zero. He and his genital lice seem to spend most of their time dancing on their own dicks.

183 #171 maybe we can ask Dem Senate majority leader , Harry Reid.

184 Why, yes.  Because if Perry starts spouting the dumb anti-Mormon cliches of the bottom-half of the evangelical bell curve, his election is assured.  Assured.

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 04:51 PM (epBek)

Cliches?  Really?

185 Isn't it interesting how there's always something more important for Perry to be responding to than actually discussing the issues?

It's as if these various crises were being made to order. And whether Perry can effectively respond to the latest flung shit or not, they've effectively kept him from proactively campaigning.

I think this is another setup.

I'm beginning to think that a Romney campaign is bad news. After four years of "I can manage socialism better than the democrat can" turns into four more years of depression, we'll be facing a likely Obama victory in 2016.

We need more than a placeholder for the next Democrat administration.

186
btw, is Hank Williams Jr retarded?

187

Uh, mormons aren't christians.  Neither are Scientologists, buddhists, or wiccans.  What's the debate on that?  Christians have this thing called the Bible.  Mormons have this thing called the Book of Mormon.

You know what else Mormons have?  This thing called the Bible.  And also this belief in this guy named Jesus who was the son of God, was crucified for our sins, was resurrected, and is the only name by which we can be saved.  Just like Buddhists, Scientologists, and Wiccans, in fact.

 

188 @185 Winning friends and influencing people for Romney I see.

189 187 "Hmmm. Please read my comment again. I believe I was talking about the repub primaries." Seriously? You want me to read your frickin' comment again. Not likely.

190

The last sentence isn't bad. The first part is sub-zero stupid. Freedom of Speech doesn't mean what you think it means, since the Founders weren't drooling morons.

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 04:49 PM (epBek)

Uh.... the Preacher said it AFTER the event... on his OWN time... he is free so say what he thinks... that IS Freedom of Speech.... and since he is speaking of his religious belief... also Freedom of Religion...

Both are berock American Beliefs.... contrary to your assertion of stupidity, it would play really well with Moderates.

191 147 What chanel is Bloomberg on DirectTv? And, what are the drinking game rules? Who gives a shit about the rest of it (beside you idiots)? Posted by: Beefy Meatball at October 11, 2011 04:53 PM (yn6XZ) Sip on any mention of gardisil, 9-9-9, the stimulus, or unemployment. If Ron Paul discusses going back to the gold standard, two sips. If he says that Jewish bankers are stealing all our gold, chug.

192 /high five

Posted by: Zombie Akhenaten at October 11, 2011 05:00 PM (eHr/6)

*eye roll*

193 btw, is Hank Williams Jr retarded? Posted by: soothie at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (G/zuv) No, just likes the booze a little to much

194
Are you ready for some stupidityyyy?!?

Are you ready for some retardationnnnnn?!?!

Monday night shitheaderyyyyyy!

195 Romney haters (I am one) should keep in mind that Mormons are generally good people.  Some of their views can be phrased to sound ridiculous, but this is none of our business, and if you think about it, any major religion's views could be phrased to sound ridiculous.

If you know mormons, you know they aren't bad Americans. 

Perry hasn't brought it up, and Romney is hitting below the belt demanding Perry pass a religious test or tell his supporters what the think.  It's obvious different religions are mostly mutually exclusive.

But taking this is a 'Mormons are weird' direction is beneath us.

196

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (epBek)

So, by that logic... Christians are Jews?

197 Hank Williams, Jr. isn't retarded. He country. Big difference.

198
Did you hear his new song?

He claims Fox 'n Friends twisted his words around.

199 I'm beginning to see why Sarah Palin pulled the pin on a possible run--I wouldn't want to be associated with this developing clusterfuck, either.

200
btw, Romney was asked about Operation Fast and Furious today: Would you call upon Holder to resign? His answer was a scoamf.

201 @201 It's not beneath me if Romney intends to use his Mormon faith as a weapon in the primary.

202 One other thing I found "ironic" about Fox this morning was the guy who normally does the business network asking one of those bottom tier candidates when they were going to start talking about the real issues instead of rocks and religion.

203

#171,

try 'not.'  Except, yes, Mormon men do go on two-year proselyting missions.  They are very 'isolated' in the sense that you spend the whole time constantly talking to people about religion.

204 Remember how we spent a week hanging Hoffa's (quite analogous) remarks around the neck of Barack Obama?

Except that the Hoffa remarks were done as part of Obama's introduction.  Jeffress' remarks were said to a reporter off the stage and not as part of the official program. 

205

It is better for Romney to have to deal with some of the Mormon stuff now. He has very high name recognition now, but only about half of people know that he is a Mormon.

He is going to have to deal with it sooner or later, and Perry has given him a ridiculously good opportunity to do so in a way that makes it look like everyone else is the problem.

(Not a Mitt supporter)

206 It is ESPN that is retarded. Are you ready for some Fascism?

207 Also the Pastor inferred in his introduction that Romney was not a Christian.

Implyed.

208 i'm not a Mormon, but i like the whole idea of hanging out at Church wearing nothing but longjohns...

209

And 'by worked closely' you meant you read Decker or some other pulp anti-Mormon purple prose guy.

Anyway, dude, because I like you, I promise that when I take your wife to populate my planet, I'll get her a good doula.

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 04:57 PM (epBek)

Nope, what I meant by "worked closely with" is having worked side by side with a mormon bishop, along with dozens of his church members.  These were people in professional positions.

210 He claims Fox 'n Friends twisted his words around. Posted by: Soothie Williams Jr at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (G/zuv) Well that's bullshit. I heard it live and he walked right into that all by himself

211 I don't hate Mormons. I don't even dislike Mormons. I just hate Mitt, because he sucks giant donkey dicks six ways from Sunday.

212

I could care less about Romney's potentially strange religious beliefs.

I am more concerned about his questionable and strange political conversions and decisions.

213 I've never held the Mormons crazy religious beliefs against them and I'm not starting now. If Romney is the nominee I'll vote for him.

214
brb...

215

btw, is Hank Williams Jr retarded?
Posted by: soothie at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (G/zuv)

No, just likes the booze a little to much

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 11, 2011 05:02 PM (i6RpT)

Uh oh, did he speak his mind again?

216 I don't think it was intentional, I think Perry's team are genuinely not that sharp -- and it speaks to a candidate and a campaign that, as we have seen over and over, ain't ready for prime-time.

None of the candidates are and I beginning to think expecting the perfect candidate is folly.  Hand delt, Perry's not a racist for a rock, and he's not a bigot because of a jackass pastor. Period.

The field is as good as it's going to get. Flinging this victimology around is stupid when the Left does it. Why the fuck are we doing it?

Oh, and I've got news for you: in the real world, campaigns pretty much ARE on the hook for really controversial stuff that their major supporters say.  That's not fair, it's just the way politics works. Remember how we spent a week hanging Hoffa's (quite analogous) remarks around the neck of Barack Obama? Posted by: Jeff B.

Actually, it's a poor analogy. The next President, be it Perry or Romney, will have absolutely zero to do with crafting policies that outline true Christianity or the definition of a cult.

Hoffa's remarks regarding unions and the size public sector are entirely relevant to the politics and policies of Obama right here and now.

217 FYI The ABC radio top of the hour news after breathlessly saying Holder saved us all had their next story of how Mitt is demanding a retraction  from Perry regarding "his" pastors anti- Mormon attack... Nice going there Mitt....

218 Is Mitt a Warmerist also?

219 And, what are the drinking game rules?

If you want to stay sober as a judge, take a shot every time someone mentions Obama.

220

194 @185

Winning friends and influencing people for Romney I see

 

You think I care about Romney because  . . . why?

Not all of mix our religion and our politics like that.

I'm totally on board with the folks here who said that Perry has already dealt with the issue by saying he thinks Mormonism isn't a cult.  Mitt is just playing politics here and should be called on it.

What I'm doing is arguing with the people who disagree with Perry when he says that he thinks Mormons aren't cultists.

221

192
btw, is Hank Williams Jr retarded?

Just slow. Better question, is he actually the real son of Hank Williams? Shit, it looks like Mrs Hank did the milkman while Hank was touring. They don't sound alike either. Just sayin. BTW Hank Williams is a national treasure. Jr. not so much. Having said that, ESPN sucks big cocks nightly.

222

Nope, what I meant by "worked closely with" is having worked side by side with a mormon bishop, along with dozens of his church members.  These were people in professional positions.

So, basically, you're a liar.  Because you didn't get that stuff from any actual Mormons.

223 @226 Okay, guess I'm a little slow on the take today, but I swear I just read another of your posts wherein you said wiccans were Christians.

224 Hank has a point if you think about it.

225
lyrics, opening line:

“So Fox & Friends.
Wanna put me down. Ask for my opinion.
Then twist it all around.
Supposed to be talkinÂ’ about my fatherÂ’s new CD.
Well, two can play that gotcha game, just wait and see,”

/I shit you not

226 Romney haters (I am one) should keep in mind that Mormons are generally good people.

If they defend Romney, they're not. Because he's an asshole.

227 224 Is Mitt a Warmerist also?

Posted by: Frodo Bin Laden at October 11, 2011 05:07 PM (ieDPL)

Yep

228 Why do the bath house Yankees dis Hank Williams Jr?

229 #213 inferred / implied 220 / 221 whatever it takes.

230 Wait a second, let me get this straight -- so you're saying that Mitt Romney, as a MORMON (not as a RINO or anything, but rather as a Mormon) is an "enemy of God?"   And a cult member?

If I'm reading this correctly, then yo, straight up: go fuck yourself.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 11, 2011 04:47 PM (XonkM)

JeffB in his usual pompous manner misses the point and skips the explanation in the comment.

Once again for our slower students like JeffB.: People act and make decisions because of certain factors that motivate them. In a vacuum an actual Christian might say 'sure I'll vote for Mitt if I have to.' If instead geniuses like you beat us over the head with your dhimmi-style calls for tolerance and that we renounce anyone who speaks the truth, then we are likely to spend more time thinking about this particular issue (and in a mood soured by your repeated divisiveness). Mormonism is a false religion, as any Bible based Christian can tell you, and all false religions are the work of demons (I don't know the cite of the top of my head, but it's not the point). And it's in a sense worse because it's unlikely anyone would convert out of it to some legitimate branch of Christianity (and why would they, as they already think they are Christians). So in the sense, if you harp on the topic, yes, he gets to label himself an enemy of God.

As to what I think-eh, it's not high on my list of great evils to thwart. If Glenn Beck was running, I wouldn't care in the slightest about his Mormonism (which probably has to do with familiarity with him and how his faith motivates him), so I think it's mostly more of an excuse for the general sense of 'ick' people get from Romney.

My point was (again) that it's not helpful in any context to be having this discussion at length. As your thoughtless outburst demonstrates.

231 "I Shit You Not" would be a good name for a song.

232
They don't sound alike either.

Now that you mention it, father and junior are nothing alike.

233

So, by that logic... Christians are Jews?

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (NtXW4)

 

Up until the 2d century or so, AD, most of the Christians were Jews.  In case you've forgotten, Jesus was a pretty much a devout Jew. 

234 I dont remember the MFM holding Ø responsible for the Trumka SOB remarks that actually occured BEFORE he spoke.

235 I'm not voting for Mitt unless I have to. I'm pretty sure my vote here in Ca. won't count anyway...

236 229 @226

Okay, guess I'm a little slow on the take today, but I swear I just read another of your posts wherein you said wiccans were Christians.   Sarcasm, Dave.  Its not just a river in Egypt.

237
In other words, Hank Jr is saying...

"bitch set me up!"

238 I haven't felt this betrayed asince they told me George Michael is a queer.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 11, 2011 04:34 PM (l9zgN)

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... what now?

239 All I know is Perry better be ready as he's sure to get this question tonight.
His response should be Jeffers isn't his pastor, he didn't sit in his pew for 20 years (Like some people) and he repudiated the pastor's statement as soon as he was aware of it. If Romney is so dang hot on diversity then you don't achieve that by repudiating people, you repudiate bad ideas unless it's very clear the man himself is closed to adjusting his viewpoint.

240 @242 Okay, I give up.

241 "I Hate to Be So Blunt, But Mitt Romney Can Be a Shameless Liar" by Brian Preston is full of irony - the piece, not just the title: a) everyone knows this is true about Mitt; b) but everyone ELSE is comparative MORE blunt: Mitt IS a shameless liar; c) this is NOT an example of Mitt being shameless, or even a liar. Preston raises 3 'shamefaced lies': 1. the selection of Jeffress as being that of the VVS organizers, not Perry or his campaign, 2. the only Jeffress' shout-out at Mitt's mormonity was AFTER the speech, NOT in the introduction, & this: 3. " As soon as he was aware of JeffressÂ’ remark, Perry did in fact disassociate himself with them entirely." Ace gets in on the irony: "bullshit, bullshit, bullshit", by aiming it at the Santy Tax Clause, rather than Preston. One more bullshit, & you get bullshit bullshit squared, which is what Preston throws to defend Perry. What - VVS held a lottery, and Jeffress' name ACCIDENTALLY came up, whereupon Perry didn't veto it? Bullshit. What - Jeffress just FORTUITOUSLY did a set-up in the intro, & then clarified it after the speech? Bullshit. What - Perry sending out a minion to say 'Perry doesn't THINK it's a cult' is a complete disassociation at the first opportunity? Bullshit. 'As soon as he was aware' was when it happened right in front of him. The post-speech 'clarification' was for the hard-of-thinking. Jeffress is from Dallas & has written about Perry in his BOOK. All that said: Perry cannot back down. 'Mormonism is a cult' floats in the ether bubble that surrounds Mitt. NOT saying it means pretty much the same thing as declining to point out that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes. Besides, you don't back down from a direct hit from a drone with your name all over it; backing down here means Perry is no different from Mitt as a "shame-faced liar". "71 Is Mormonism a cult? Posted by: Dave" Well, IS IT?

242 "If they defend Romney, they're not. Because he's an asshole.

Posted by: oblig. at October 11, 2011 05:09 PM (xvZW9)"

I actually agree with this.  My understanding of the Book of Mormon is contrary to a pro choicer gun taxing gun grabbing POV.

But I'll leave the religious aspect out of it.  I don't understand Romney supporters who actually favor the guy from a conservative POV.

I do understand the idea that Romney is the only guy who can beat Obama though I think that is completely incorrect.

243 Romney preached for people to repent, and listened to their confessions of sins and told them how to use Jesus sacrifice to be forgiven. That makes him a muslim.

244 f I'm reading this correctly, then yo, straight up: go fuck yourself. Posted by: Jeff B. at October 11, 2011 04:47 PM (XonkM) You owe me an undershirt and an Oxford shirt. When I read your "black" voice, my nipples ripped through both layers like Daren Sproles hitting the off-tackle hole.

245
Religious fights are a specialty of the Stupid Party.

246 206
btw, Romney was asked about Operation Fast and Furious today: Would you call upon Holder to resign? His answer was a scoamf.

Posted by: arhooley at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (Rt5P7)

Gee, you mean Mitt Romney was unable to answer a yes or no question AGAIN?

I'm telling you, the guy would take a full minute to answer "Do you love your mother" and you wouldn't know if he did or not afterwards.

247 Romney will beat Obama just like I did.

248 251
Religious fights are a specialty of the Stupid Party.

  Ain't that the truth!

249 Trust me, I know a thing or two about cults.
And Mormonism isn't one.
Just ask my devoted followers.

250 "71 Is Mormonism a cult? Posted by: Dave"

Well, IS IT?
Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at October 11, 2011 05:12 PM (vahvH)

I like Perry's reaction.  Perry makes sure to note he doesn't consider Mormonism a cult.  But he doesn't act like this is a major issue.  He is not trying to benefit from this issue.  He doesn't want to talk about it.

Perry wants to talk about the balanced budget amendment and getting government regulations out of the way while cutting agency budgets.

I like that.  I don't want Perry to act like anyone's religion is a worthwhile topic.  We have much more important issues to talk about, in my opinion.

251

Up until the 2d century or so, AD, most of the Christians were Jews. In case you've forgotten, Jesus was a pretty much a devout Jew.

Posted by: Soona (soona) at October 11, 2011 05:10 PM (ieWmi)

And pre Joseph Smith, the Mormons were Christian... sooo your point is?

And heck, Moslems give credence to the Bible, and think Jesus was a Prophet at least... does that make THEM Christians?

Its only MY opinion, and as a NON CHRISTIAN, but I see Mormonism, and Christianity, as seperate Faiths...

252 This makes me sick

253

Nothing says "We are the party that is going to reverse Obama's terrible economic policies" quite like arguing over Mormon theology and racist rocks.

I think the candidates should go after each other. Is it too much to ask it be about immigration, health care, or the economy?

254 Cult - noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion. 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc. 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Is Mormonism a cult? Yes, according to the above definitions, But hey, aren't most religions basically a cult? How about the fans of a sports team? How about brain-dead Obama worshipers? How about those dirty OWS fuckers?

The Mormon religion has a sketchy past and they do some weird shit when they worship. However, other than the ones who are very self-righteous, you'll never meet any nicer people. But be prepared, they will try to make you a convert from the get-go.

255 Religious fights are a specialty of the Stupid Party.

Posted by: arhooley at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (Rt5P7)

 

Ain't that the truth.

256 251
Religious fights are a specialty of the Stupid Party.
You know who else got in fights about religion?  Jesus.  You calling Jesus stupid, homeslice.     OK, point taken.  I promise to stop making fun of the folks who get their info from photocopied rants and from a pastor who got his D.Div. at a bait shop if they promise to stop telling me all the stupid info they get.

257

Nothing says "We are the party that is going to reverse Obama's terrible economic policies" quite like arguing over Mormon theology and racist rocks.

Word, ol' chum.

258 255 Trust me, I know a thing or two about cults.
And Mormonism isn't one.
Just ask my devoted followers.

Posted by: Chucky Johnson "I am LFG" at October 11, 2011 05:14 PM (H2XPX)

Yeah, you guys are world record holders for longest human centepede. Congrats!

259 For those who have DISH the debate is on channel 203 at 8 pm. I checked my lineup and I don't get that channel. It is only on the top tier in the BS tier scheme.

Oh well, I think I'll watch "Keeping Up With The Kardashians". That will be more informative than this debate.

And BTW, Ace if you are still around. This again shows that this debate will be seen by very few people. But I'll be willing to bet that it will quoting endlessly on the morning talk shows; all spewing about how great rotten Romney was and how Perry once again failed to answer the racist rock question adequately.

260 Guys? Is this thing on? Every time we talk about mormonism, David Axelrod pops a stiffie. Is that a mental image you want to carry around? So enough with the religious pissing match. Piss on Bambi instead and leave mormonism out of the election, where it belongs.

261
Hank Williams Jr meet subtlety.

Subtlety, Hank Williams Jr.

262 Religious fights are a specialty of the Stupid Party.

Posted by: arhooley at October 11, 2011 05:13 PM (Rt5P7)

One of the special things that makes them the Stupid Party.

263 I'm starting to get depressed now. I thought there was no way we could lose to such a piece of Socialist shit like Obama.Are we once again going to take defeat out of the jaws of victory?

264 'As soon as he was aware' was when it happened right in front of him.

Ummm... no, because he said no such thing during the introduction.  Or am I missing dog-whistles again?

The "Mormonism is a Cult" comment was specifically in later remarks directly to the press.  As soon as Perry became aware of those remarks, he did issue a statement that said, as politely as possible, "Everything he just said is BS."

What - Perry sending out a minion to say 'Perry doesn't THINK it's a cult' is a complete disassociation at the first opportunity? Bullshit.

Inasmuch as one should be required?  Yes.  Once more: the statements weren't made during the intro, they were made afterwords directly to the press.  Also: unless you're Mitt Romney who will engaged in scorched-earth politics to prevent anyone else from being electable (since the base has roundly rejected you after 4 years), you know this is a stupid thing, and that the Perry camp's immediate response was sufficient.

265 Keep your eye on the prize...defeating Obama!  We need a candidate that can put two sentences together and that is not Perry.  Very comfortable with Romney and Cain as our two top candidates. 

266

try 'not.'  Except, yes, Mormon men do go on two-year proselyting missions.  They are very 'isolated' in the sense that you spend the whole time constantly talking to people about religion.

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (epBek)

How many times are they allowed to have contact with their families during this time?  Isn't it basically twice a year, with the child initiating the contact?

Look, I can debate this stuff all evening, but my point is that the left and MFM is going to have a FIELD DAY with this stuff once Ronmey secures the nomination.  It's not about mormons not being good people.  I have to say the ones I've worked with, and continue to work with, are nice personable people.  Does this stuff personally bother me?  Not really because Im very familiar with it.  But you can bet your "special underwear" that Romney will be made into a laughing stock and a fool over his religion.

267 165 And 'by worked closely' you meant you read Decker or some other pulp anti-Mormon purple prose guy.

Proud Mormon Icecream Dumbass

I notice you never mention any facts related to how anyone's assertions regarding Mormonism are wrong. That is what jerks like you do best. That's why this will actually help Perry. Thank you. Keep up the good work. Perry needs some help now.

268
Q: Hank Jr, what do you think about Obama?

A: He's Hitler!

One week later: Hey, you twisted my words around.

269 I really don't care about Mormonism except to the extent Romney seeks now to wield it as a weapon against Perry.

270

And meanwhile, Satan's Army is plotting their moves and laughing their asses off at us.

Keep it up, dipshits.

271 "56 ... I'm with Limbaugh. Roll the dice. We lose, we lose. Obama will be done after this one and so will Democrats for 40 years. We win, we win big. But if we put a Romney in there, we win small." ... or not at all.

272 Another Romney lie was in the last debate he denied a line about his health care being applied nationally was removed from the paperback version of his book when it clearly was.

273

So, by that logic... Christians are Jews?

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (NtXW4)

Well after their hearts are circumcized. Um, can we just move on to another topic?

274

Jumbo jugged shrimpdick,

Mormons arent Christian....

Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus.

Mormons believe in the guy who was born in Bethlehem around 1 AD, give or take, preached in Jerusalem, told people he was the Son of God, told people he'd forgive their sins if they accepted him as their lord, was crucified by the Romans, and then amazingly was resurrected.  That guy.  I thought that was the Jesus y'all believe in, but I stand corrected.  Next time I get Jesus Castillo to cut my hair, I'll ask if he can have y'all his followers calm down.

 

275

Its only MY opinion, and as a NON CHRISTIAN, but I see Mormonism, and Christianity, as seperate Faiths...

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 11, 2011 05:15 PM (NtXW4)

 

Except for the seagull bullshit, polygemy, and a guy named Joseph Smith elevating himself to the right hand of Jesus, there are a lot of similarities.

276 240I dont remember the MFM holding Ø responsible for the Trumka SOB remarks that actually occured BEFORE he spoke.

Posted by: Judge Smails at October 11, 2011 05:10 PM (UU0OF)

 

it doesn't work that way, silly goose...

277 217 I don't hate Mormons. I don't even dislike Mormons. I just hate Mitt, because he sucks giant donkey dicks six ways from Sunday.

Posted by: Snort! (tha wunder hawg)

218

I could care less about Romney's potentially strange religious beliefs.

I am more concerned about his questionable and strange political conversions and decisions.

Posted by: Paper

Exactly.  Romney may want us to believe conservative opposition to him is bigotry, but it's really not, except on some fringe.  It's got ZERO to do with anything Perry has actually said.  It's just another shameful Romney maneuver.  I would prefer the clumsy Perry, who obviously isn't a bigot and knows to lead, to the guy who is masterful at the Obama victim hustle (I recall those claiming Obamacare opponents must be racist, even when most of them never said or endorsed anything racist).

btw, Romney was asked about Operation Fast and Furious today: Would you call upon Holder to resign? His answer was a scoamf.

Posted by: arhooley at October 11, 2011 05:04 PM (Rt5P7)

Are you kidding me?  Even that?  The guy is a moron.  he never thinks on his feet.  If there's any controversy he is MIA until the polls are out and his staffers feed him something to memorize that simply sounds smart.  As Romney about something that isn't settled and he can't answer it without sounding like an idiot.

This is why I think Perry is much smarter than Romney.  This is why I think real leader are smarter than George Clooney reading clever lines.

You'd think that was a softball.

Anyway, I hope Perry's reaction to this is that he isn't going to tell baptists not to disagree with Mormism and he doesn't think Romney's religion is a legitimate issue in this election, nor did he agree to the comments he had no control over.  He should then launch into a comment criticizing how the left would say Obamacare = racism, searching for some example that most Obamacare opponents never said.  That's not how adults argue.

278 btw, is Hank Williams Jr retarded?
Posted by: soothie

Yes.  Kind of.  But he can drive a car.

279
nood post, mormoms

280 This really has nothing to do with the Religious aspect of Mormonism. It is about Romney taking cheap political shots at Perry.That's the story here...

281 @281 You're definitely doing it wrong.

282 " 279 Another Romney lie was in the last debate he denied a line about his health care being applied nationally was removed from the paperback version of his book when it clearly was.

Posted by: The Schwalbe : © at October 11, 2011 05:21 PM (UU0OF)"

Yup.  That was one of Perry's great ads.  He's got a great campaign, and unlike Romney, they aren't wasting money.  They act like they can handle money properly.

283 Perry can use this retort, "I did not make the remark and expressing one's own opinion is a valued freedom in the United States.  I hope you are more secure in your faith than to have it shaken by one man's opinion."

284 @88

My mistake.  And I'm sorry. 

I forgot to mention a crucial step in making a list of cults.

It's really quite simple. 

1.  Make a list of all the world's past and current religions.
2.  Erase the ones you believe in.

Done.

"Cult" is a derogatory term for adherents of one religion to use to denigrate adherents of another.

285 272 Keep your eye on the prize...defeating Obama!  We need a candidate that can put two sentences together and that is not Perry.  Very comfortable with Romney and Cain as our two top candidates. 

Posted by: Jay at October 11, 2011 05:20 PM (KaJBC)

Yeah, we need a real slick communicator.  Someone like, uh, Obama.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  What if we found a Reagan who just happened to stutter?  Would he warrant taking a look at?  Nah, we need a real slick talker. 

286 Let's talk about Black Liberation Theology now. It makes god-earth-wives man-child-mission-underwear look good.

287 #279 Schwalbe you have the facts wrong. In addition I guess those claiming the change did not read the rest of the text below the line in question. What's new.

288 Is Romney a greasy, two faced suck up or just a practicing Mormom? Are all Mormons this weasily?

289 ACE: The religion asks that you use its actual name in publications. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Show some respect to their request.

290

How many times are they allowed to have contact with their families during this time?  Isn't it basically twice a year, with the child initiating the contact?

You aren't 'allowed' anything, since going on a Mormon mission is voluntary and remaining on a Mormon mission is voluntary, and abiding by Mormon mission rules is voluntary. 

The mission rules are that you can write and email your family as much as you like, but you aren't supposed to call except on Mothers Day and Christmas, if memory serves.  So what?  Its basically like living as a monk for two years.  Two years preaching Christ exclusively was a small return, a very small return, on the debt I owe him.

And what is all this 'child' crap.  I went on my mission at 19.  So do all the other Mormon men.  I wasn't a child, I was a fucking man.  You non-Mormons who think people are children until they're 30 make me sick.  If it wasn't for y'alls 'child' crap, we wouldn't have nobody getting married in this country and nobody having kids and nobody getting jobs living in their parents' basement and our economy and demography wouldn't be terminal.  Child.  What a load.

291 213  Implyed.

Implied.

292 What does the Book of Mormon specifically have to say about the corporate tax rate, the 10th Amendment, or domestic energy production?

Nothing?

Umm... OK, what the fuck are we talking about?

As Mitt said himself, there are plenty of reasons not to vote for him.  Foremost being his ideological flexibility and dishonesty.  The differences between mainstream Christianity and his Mormon faith?  How is this remotely relevant?

293 I forgot, Harry Reid is a Mormon. I bet you won't see that cocksucker in one of those TV ads.

294 285 btw, is Hank Williams Jr retarded?
Posted by: soothie

Yes.  Kind of.  But he can drive a car.

Posted by: Dang at October 11, 2011 05:22 PM (BbX1b)

Hank is an excellent driver...

295 LDS Apostle Orson Hyde: And who was always "calling Orson"? Mork - a known extraterrestrial. STATUS: VERIFIED Corroborated by multiple independent sources, motherfucker. MULTIPLE. SOURCES.

296 Bottom line, I expect Newt to spank Romney for the good of the party tonight regarding his attempts to inflame religious wars during the debates. The real question is how hard he will spank him?

297 But what's going to end up happening is that Perry will either say Mormonism is not a cult, which in thus hurts Jeffress' second goal, or will not say either way, which will hurt Perry, at least with voters who are against the idea of a religious test and different classes of citizenship based on religious allegiance.
------
It was already reported that same day that Gov. Perry said he does not believe the LDS Church is a cult. 

I don't think Perry needs to go further than that.  If someone wants to point to Perry's record and argue that he has discriminated against Latter-Day Saints, they can go ahead and try do that.  I haven't seen any evidence of that sort of thing, but it's a free country.  Likewise, if someone wants to look at the hiring practices of Herman Cain or Mitt Romney and make arguments about how they may incorporate religion into their hiring practices, they can do that too.  I wonder which would bear the most fruit. 

298  Perry can use this retort, "I did not make the remark and expressing one's own opinion is a valued freedom in the United States.  I hope you are more secure in your faith than to have it shaken by one man's opinion."

Posted by: dogfish at October 11, 2011 05:24 PM (N2yhW)

 

Or he could say:  "Hey, Mitt.  Let's stop fucking around and talk about the asshole that's destroying our nation". 

He'd definitely get my vote.

299

So the guy thinking he's going to be in a presidential campaign for the next 13 months helps himself by showing he has a thin skin.

What do you all do for fun in Backwardsland?

300 300 Ha. I noticed that after I "sent". Then beat myself a pillow for being a doofus.

301 My new plan is zero taxes and everybody gets a $100k check from the government. Twice a week.

Chicken in every pot bitches!

302 The religion asks that you use its actual name in publications. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Show some respect to their request.

Good luck with that.  "Adherent to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" isn't exactly headline-friendly.  What else would one say other than Mormonism?

303 If the candidates' teams are smart they are working feverishly on some line to link this controversy to a big slam on Rev Wright and Obama.

304

i try to be a respector of all faiths, i believe what i believe and everyone else is welcome to believe what they want, as long as they are not harming me or forcing their ways on me, it's live and let live.

that's why i hate Statists, Progs, & Socialists with bitter intensity, they are ALWAYS trying to tell me what to think and how to live, God Damn their pathetic souls to hell!

mormons i can live with...

305 Bottom line, I expect Newt to spank Romney for the good of the party tonight regarding his attempts to inflame religious wars during the debates. The real question is how hard he will spank him?

Posted by: Sub-Tard at October 11, 2011 05:28 PM (0M3AQ)

 

Knowing that he probably won't win the nomination, Newt, in his own way, is becoming a blessing to this primary season.

306 dangy that'll teach ya for correcting me.

307 Williams stated that Obama meeting Bohner was like Hitler meeting with  Netanyahu, not that Obama was Hitler. People just naturally jumped to that conclusion.

308 First these commenters got mad at Cain for talking to Perry about race Now they get mad at Romney for talking to Perry about his misrepresented religion. Next time on the Perry soap opera. They get mad at Bachman for talking to Perry about being a woman.

309 "n.  I wasn't a child, I was a fucking man.  You non-Mormons who think people are children until they're 30 make me sick.  If it wasn't for y'alls 'child' crap, we wouldn't have nobody getting married in this country and nobody having kids and nobody getting jobs living in their parents' basement and our economy and demography wouldn't be terminal.  Child.  What a load.

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 05:27 PM (epBek)"

If you're actually what you claim to be, you are nothing like the good mormons I've met.  Even if they aren't perfect, they try to be nice people when representing their religion.  I've had mormons in my home to talk about their views.  They would be embarrassed by your commentary.

There's no need.

-----

Perry should start the debate asking Romney to apologize.  Perry should note that America is a land of many religions and some are mutually exclusive.  They think other religions are incorrect.  This is not something Perry or Romney or other presidential candidates should insist be repudiated.  It is simply freedom.  Perry should say he has never and will never make an issue of Romney's religion, and that's because he treasures religious freedom.  He should then say he refuses to further dignify effort to associate Perry with things he didn't say.

310 sock be gone

311 Mormonism is kind of like Pimp My Religion.  Joseph Smith took Christianity and added a bunch of stuff like magic eyeglasses,  golden tablets,  magic underwear,  polygamy,  cities said to have existed in America with no archeological evidence,  no smoking,  no caffeine,  no booze,  baptising for the dead and some other grab ass rituals during initiations done by elders to the ladies.  Hubba hubba.  Basically a bunch of things the New Testament said was going to happen under the heading of "false teaching".

312 Likewise, if someone wants to look at the hiring practices of Herman Cain or Mitt Romney and make arguments about how they may incorporate religion into their hiring practices, they can do that too.  I wonder which would bear the most fruit. 

Posted by: Y-not at October 11, 2011 05:28 PM (5H6zj)

There is no fruit to be had. We ate it!

313

The Southern Baptists are not the only religious group that considers Mormonism a cult. The following is from www.catholic.com:

Full Question
What does the Catholic Church say about the practices and beliefs of Mormonism?

Answer
While individual Mormons may be persons of good conscience, Mormonism itself is a belief system that would reduce the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit from being the three Persons of the one, true, and infinite God to being three limited, finite deities among an uncounted multitude of deities, all of whom merely reshaped small parts of a preexisting cosmos.

Mormonism teaches that human beings may, by practicing the tenets of its faith, become gods and goddesses themselves, with their own planets full of people worshiping them.

While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.

 

314 FYI
In 2010 the Church provided relief to people affected by 119 disasters in 58 countries.

The Church also assists communities in establishing  local water committees and hygiene training for families. Over 7.5 million people now have access to clean water because of Church efforts from 2002 through 2010.

A program called “Helping Babies Breathe"helps save the lives of newborns in resource limited countries. Since 2002, over 193,000 health care workers have been trained in these life-saving techniques.

Since 2003, over 550,000 people have benefitted from Church vision projects throughout the world.

The Church's mobility initiative provides wheelchairs for rough terrain, hospital wheelchairs, crutches, walkers, and canes. Since 2002, over 415,000 people have received one of these devices.

Yea, so all of you crazy non-cultists are correct. We are pretty much a bunch of ass holes.

315 "First these commenters got mad at Cain for talking to Perry about race
Now they get mad at Romney for talking to Perry about his misrepresented religion.
Next time on the Perry soap opera. They get mad at Bachman for talking to Perry about being a woman.

Posted by: ChristianHarryReid at October 11, 2011 05:32 PM (90TGT)"

More likely they will get mad at Obama for criticizing Perry for being southern.  I think Romney really messed up, and this will help Perry.  This is the kind of move that sounds good to political experts, but just doesn't work on mainstream voters anymore.  Tea Partiers are so sick and tired of being called bigots every time we disagree with a liberal like Romney or Obama.

316

Dang,

I would be insulted if you had a clue.  You aren't even wrong, just too stupid for the human race.

 

Dustin,

I could care less that I hurt your feelings.  If Mormon families want to welcome you into their homes while you spout the kind of smear and filth that are getting spouted in this thread, that's their business, but in my home that would get you tossed out on your ear.

317

Just a guy

whoever wrote that website got a lot wrong, but I don't really expect Catholics to be experts on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints anyway.  Curious that you used the word 'cult' and they didn't, though.  Is anyone that the Catholic church regards as 'blasphemous' therefore a cult?

Regards.

318 I forgot that they consider Stan and Jesus to be brothers.  Not in sync with the Bible at all there.  But I guess that doesn't matter to them.

319 The Southern Baptists are not the only religious group that considers Mormonism a cult. The following is from www.catholic.com:

You really shouldn't cite anything other than the Vatican's web site for Church teaching. 

The Catholic Church has an increasingly cordial relationship with the Church of Latter Day Saints, despite major theological differences.  One of our Cardinals spoke at BYU last year and I know (from talking with members of the LDS here who are well-placed in the church authority) that the two denominations have tried to work more closely on issues like Prop 8.  The Church certainly does not teach that the LDS are members of a cult. 

320  Keep swingin' Proud Emperor!  You haven't hit a thing!

321  Stan and Jesus!  LOL!  That's Satan and Jesus that are brothers according to mormons!

322 Hey, folks.  How about we all just become muslim.  Then we could end this controversy in a more practical manner.

323 Harry Reid is a devout member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and like Perry he has become a millionaire from being a crony capitalist career politician. The Perry fans have to respect that.

324 "Dustin,

I could care less that I hurt your feelings.  If Mormon families want to welcome you into their homes while you spout the kind of smear and filth that are getting spouted in this thread, that's their business, but in my home that would get you tossed out on your ear.

Posted by: Proud Mormon Emperor of Icecream at October 11, 2011 05:37 PM (epBek)"

Why are you saying I spout smears and filth?  I have nothing to say about your religion.  I've offered no criticism of it, ever, in my entire life, aside from declining to join the few times I've been invited, because I have different beliefs.

And you didn't offend me.  I just think you're a terrible representative of Mormonism.  All the mormons I know are a lot more pleasant than you, and very thoughtful in discussing their religion if you want to talk about it.

Rage is a human condition, and I'm sure every mormon and non mormon has some, but it's just not the best way to discuss this.

----

" I forgot that they consider Stan and Jesus to be brothers.  Not in sync with the Bible at all there.  But I guess that doesn't matter to them.

Posted by: Dang at October 11, 2011 05:40 PM (BbX1b)"

I just don't see what that matters.  Explaining why you disagree with Mormonism is not relevant because there are much bigger issues in play today.

We've got to talk about entitlement reform, immigration, balance budget amendment, and the war on terror.  It's beneath us, in my opinion, to go down the road of putting down a minority religion for being in conflict with the majority one.

325 Proper Perry response --

"Mittens, I'm sorry that your feelings got hurt by someone exercising their first amendment rights.  I wish that you would show the same level of passion and anger for all of the people hurt by large government policies such as mandated health care"

326

You know this religous bashing goes on all the time. Here's how I look at it. Most if not all do good things, feed the poor, uplift the downtrodden. Around the world they bring hope to those that need it the most.  Except for Islam.

So I refrain from making negative comments on them because I think the good they do overrides the little "nuances" they might have.   Except for Islam.

327

Keep swingin' Proud Emperor!  You haven't hit a thing!

I landed a solid on the Dang cranium, but it turned out to be totally devoid of substance.  Figures.

328 @337 No, you really didn't.

329 It's interesting that Romney's fans seem to lack class, at least a solid 75% of the time.

Anyone can read these threads and see what I mean. 

I wonder, actually if some of these clowns are actually mobies trying to make Romney fans look like idiots.  I mean, Jeff B for example, it's like he doesn't want to persuade anyone.  He actually avoids arguments I could make in his shoes if I wanted to, and opts instead to be a prick.

But I shouldn't attribute to malice what incompetence can explain.

Regardless, I'm still waiting for someone to give me any reason to support Romney other than 'I hate you if you don't support Romney'.

330

obama is the enemy boys. keep your eye on the ball. please don't piss this victory away.

Please forward to the candidates. This "my dress is prettier" crap needs to end.

Which one of you dicks [candidates] has the best plan to beat the SCOAMF? Part of that process would be detailing what a SCOAMF he is and not talking about fucking rocks and fucking underwear.

Everytime they queue up one of these debates, all I can think of is the "chicken dance" from Arrested Development. So that's how America ends. Bully.

 

331 Sigh. 

I'm really saddened by this.  It's sad to think that folks like Rev. Jeffress think this sort of discussion belongs in politics, but it's doubly sad to watch Romney try politicize it further.  Maybe Mitt really feels like he's been victimized (I doubt it, but maybe he does), but even if he is a victim, that's not making me more inclined to vote for him. 

332 297 Sub Tard, yes, mormons are all exactly that "weasily".  Just like all tea partiers are that "violent" and "racist".  Just like republicans want to kill old people and deny children lunch. 

333 If Rick Perry does not beg Romney to forgive him for the preacher's comments, then Perry is heartless.  Mitty must be so tormented right now.

334 Isn't is still three months 'til the first election?
Is anyone actually looking forward to this next debate or is it seen as more of an unpleasant duty to pay attention?

335 I mean, Jeff B for example, it's like he doesn't want to persuade anyone.

JeffB. basically wants to browbeat people into voting for whoever the GOP nominee is because he feels 'GOP in power >Obama in power' is the only consideration. He has been a Perry supporter for a while, I didn't catch if that's changed.

He might be more persuasive if, like most northeastern liberals, he didn't start from the presumption that he's better than everyone he'll ever have an argument with.

336

In 2008 in NH primary Podhertz reported, Ponnuru quoted, Romney got 94% of the Mormon vote.

In NV MSNBC reported Romney selection by Mormons "nearly unanimous" with over 9 in 10 going for the DIABO.

I think the bigotry banner is going to fly in lots of demographics.  Hell I'm a bigot and I'm independent.  Pass one over here too.

337 "He might be more persuasive if, like most northeastern liberals, he didn't start from the presumption that he's better than everyone he'll ever have an argument with.

Posted by: Methos at October 11, 2011 05:58 PM (sOXQX)"

Agreed.

He barely even attempts an argument,  so it's difficult to even know what thinks.  All I know is that if you articulate a good faith and proven problem with Romney, he starts screaming about how stupid and pathetic you are, and how he hopes the GOP wins without your help and it makes you so sad.  It's like junior high cheerleaders being bitchy, and it's completely counterproductive.  It's so bad that it really does come across as a moby.

338 Hell I'm a bigot and I'm independent.

Is there an organized group for that?

339 Mormonism is a Christian cult in the technical sense. It is a belief system that claims to be true Christianity but many of its beliefs differ from orthodox Christianity significantly. Enough that it is not a sect of Christianity but indeed a cult. Mormonism itself declares that all Christian sects are in fact false and all other Christians are not true Christians. So to many Christians being a Mormon is the same as being a Buddhist or any other non Christian. This does not disqualify Romney from running for President or any other office, and many Mormons have served the US well over the years.

340

Mormon beliefs are not Christian.  If you are such a  proud mormon.. embrace it.

Don't tell me what I  believe.  I embrace Jesus Christ and Mormon christianity, not your Jack Chick oogedy-boogedy version of Mormons that you picked up on some xeroxed sheet that is half capitals and half exclamation points.

341 Never, in the annals of American political blogging, have so many blathered for so long over so little.

342 350 ...many Mormons have served the US well over the years.
 
Mormons tend to study foreign languages to assist with their missions. As a result they have valuable language skills that have been seen as useful by the CIA, FBI, and others.

343 You lie down with bigots, you get dirty.  That's the way it is.  We did the whole Huckabee thing four years ago and don't need to repeat it.

Sorry, Rick.  Barring a miraculous turn-around in tonight's debate, I'm back with Romney.

344 S'up guys. Didn't read any of the comments (who do I look like, Andrew Breitbart?!) but I was wondering what you are looking for in the debate tonight. To Perry fans: what does he need to say, specifically for you to feel he won? Same goes with Mittens supporters and Cain supporters. I'm a huge Perry fan. I want him to be eloquent and hit Obama and Mittens. It would be a good idea to leave Cain alone, if he wastes time with Cain and leaves Mittens alone, that a huge strike against him. I also, somewhat controversially, don't want him to apologize for what Jeffries said. I'm sure it will be brought up, but I hope Perry says that he doesn't endorse what Jeffries said and leave it at that. I don't want another "heartless" comment. If Perry acts like he did during the previous debates, I'm done with him. I have to work tonight so I will miss the live debate. I'll follow the comments during my breaks and stuff. Have fun guys!

345 I'm really saddened by this.  It's sad to think that folks like Rev. Jeffress think this sort of discussion belongs in politics, but it's doubly sad to watch Romney try politicize it further.  Maybe Mitt really feels like he's been victimized (I doubt it, but maybe he does), but even if he is a victim, that's not making me more inclined to vote for him.
Posted by: Y-not at October 11, 2011 05:50 PM (5H6zj)

You can't blame Romney for seizing a golden opportunity handed to him on a silver platter by a primary opponent.

346 You lie down with bigots, you get dirty.  That's the way it is.  We did the whole Huckabee thing four years ago and don't need to repeat it.

There's a big difference between a bigoted candidate and a candidate who has a bigoted supporter.

347 Hey, guess who else Rick Perry's pastor Robert Jeffress doesn't like?  Catholics!

"The early church was corrupted by this Babylonian mystery religion and today the Roman Catholic Church is the result of that corruption.

Much of what you see in the Catholic Church today doesnÂ’t come from GodÂ’s word. It comes from that cult-like, pagan religion Â… IsnÂ’t that the genius of Satan? If you want to counterfeit a dollar bill, you donÂ’t do it with purple paper and red ink. YouÂ’re not going to fool anybody with that. But if you want to counterfeit money, what you do is make it look closely related to the real thing as possible.

And thatÂ’s what Satan does with counterfeit religion. He uses, he steals, he appropriates all of the symbols of true biblical Christianity and he changes it just enough in order to cause people to miss eternal life."

http://tinyurl.com/3oznzje

Hey now, fuck this guy.

348 >>>You can't blame Romney for seizing a golden opportunity handed to him on a silver platter by a primary opponent.

Exactly.  Romney didn't "play the religion card," despite what Perry supporters angry about his campaign getting whacked AGAIN are claiming.  He had it played ON HIM.  What is he supposed to do, slink away quietly instead of standing up for himself in the middle of a hotly contested primary?

349 354 You lie down with bigots, you get dirty.  That's the way it is.  We did the whole Huckabee thing four years ago and don't need to repeat it

You realize that Perry (1) did not select Rev. Jefferes to introduce him, (2) was not present when he made the cult comments, and (3) immediately put out a statement saying he (Perry) does not think the Church of LDS is a cult, right? 

I find smears of these types offensive, no matter to whom they are directed, but I just don't see a tight connection between Perry and Jefferes except for the endorsement.  And, don't be mistaken, it's a valuable endorsement.  I think there are something like 16 million Southern baptists. 

Nothing Perry says is going to change the fact that some of those folks - and many other folks - feel the way Jefferes does about Romney's (and Huntsman's) religion.  It surprises me that Mitt would want to accentuate this matter since it argues against the main argument for Romney: electability. 

350 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

351 There's a big difference between a bigoted candidate and a candidate who has a bigoted supporter.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 11, 2011 06:16 PM (SY2Kh)

If Perry won't explicitly disown this guy (and he hasn't) then everything Jeffress says reflects upon him.

352 Perry's response: "Well, Mitt, if you're a man you'll talk to the man who made those remarks directly. I've already said I don't believe Mormonism is a cult and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. But, say, when are you going to repudiate that Romneycare you forced on the good people of Massachusetts?"

353 Hey now, fuck this guy.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 11, 2011 06:17 PM (hIWe1)

No seriously, f*** YOU, Jeff B.

354 He had it played ON HIM. 

By a minister, not by Perry.

 What is he supposed to do, slink away quietly instead of standing up for himself in the middle of a hotly contested primary?

He could graciously accept Perry's statement, issued the day the comments were made, and leave it at that. 

Or, I suppose, he could call Rev. Jefferes out on the mat. 

What he chose to do is not helping persuade the people who think as Jefferes does and it's alienating those of us who don't feel that way, but who prefer Perry. 

355 What is he supposed to do, slink away quietly instead of standing up for himself in the middle of a hotly contested primary?

"Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I obviously disagree, but I don't think it's constructive to waste time on matters that will not be decided in this election."

356 You realize that Perry (1) did not select Rev. Jefferes to introduce him, (2) was not present when he made the cult comments, and (3) immediately put out a statement saying he (Perry) does not think the Church of LDS is a cult, right?

Perry's campaign signed off on this guy, who has made similar statements in the past.  Whether he was present at the moment(s) this troglodyte did his evangelical-baiting is irrelevant; the only correct thing to do when you're running for president and find yourself linked to people like this is to disown them.  Perry's statement in response was tepid and I'm not buying it.

357 Romney Demands Perry "Repudiate" Jeffress' Mormonism Remarks
—Ace

Tsk tsk. Next, Mittens will be calling Perry a bigot.

Methodist Perry already denied assent to the Jeffress non-introductory off the cuff Baptist position given in dialog with reporters after the fact. Romney should have thanked Perry for responding immediately contrary to Jeffress' point.  In effect, Perry said he doesn't take it upon himself to play god judging the souls of men. Again, Mitt would take that as an offensive challenge about "not playing god".

This entire ball of wax is not worth the trouble it causes, and so long as Romney's a potus GOP candidate the ball of wax is not going away. Romney's candidacy plays like the blob. And the Democrats await, not having started their smear campaigning yet.

Comments and cobloggers here have made much ado over not getting stuck fighting to preserve this or that constitutional item, forfeited to policy, judicial activism, or even legal "precedence" that erases relevance given the Supreme Law of the Land. "Not a hill worth dying on" is how those discussions went before going overboard playing Alinsky. So why a fetish to defend Mitt's agenda? Romney's platform or candidacy is more valuable and pertinent than the integrity of the Constitution? No. Mitt Romney best represents the globalist banking interests, and the Republican leadership feel comfortable with Romney and their common values shared across the aisle with the Pelosi cabal. Yes.

Voters are frustrated with that major Republican Party disconnect. Having gifted America the DHS, bail-out precedence and an autonomous Sec. of the Treasury, Republican leadership lack the necessary motivation to govern constitutionally. The Republican Party refuses to constrain government to constitutional limits, to cut federal spending and taxes for a balanced budget, to impeach the potus and attorney general. It's not in the establishment status quo nature to function conservatively. I hardly wonder if the leadership would abide by conservative constituent voter "mandates" even if the constitutional conservative percentage of Americans were 99% of the nation's population. What the Republican leadership gives the Tea Party is a tax rebate on lipstick for us piggies getting weighed in for auction at market "value".

The primary season provides the rare moment when voters own a portion of the political discussion. Where's the conservative Republican Platform being promoted? Where are the Republican Party sponsored candidate debates?!  I got another RNC email subject last week: "change we can believe in" as lame as "is Obama a socialist?" and "is it ok to call democrats socialists?" from previous year's RNC emails. Lag time. Hand-me-down slogans. Disgusting. And we're supposed to care that Mitt wins because why exactly? Mitt isn't going to do American Constitutional Governance any favor from the Oval Office. He will, however, do elitists and the global investment frauds many favors. But not with my voluntary $.02.

358 FFS, can Hewitt be any more in the bag for Romney.  Sheesh.

359

You can't blame Romney for seizing a golden opportunity handed to him on a silver platter by a primary opponent

Perry already said what needed to be said, Romney is just being desperate.

360

Does anybody even hear us this far down the thread??  Hello,,,hello,,,Beuller?

 Just what I thought. Anyway, its still too damn early for anyone to be shown the door. Its October People, not February.

361 If Rick Perry has any brains he'll announce he's converted to Islam.  That'll shut 'em up.

362

Is it just me, or is Mitt getting more Alinsky-like each week?  Freeze the target, isolate it, then polarize.  Nice.

I really do not want him at the top of a Republican ticket.  I don't like the way he campaigns, and I don't like the way he talks.

If we are going to run another McCain, we may as well re-elect Obama and lock him up with a Republican congress.  At least until we can find a Republican Presidential candidate.

363 If Rick Perry has any brains he'll announce he's converted to Islam.  That'll shut 'em up.

See!!! I told You!!!

364 Allahu Akbar, y'all.

365 Stay tuned, folks.  Next Jeffress will say that Real Christians shouldn't vote for a black man, and when Herman Cain responds with "now wait just one damn minute!" he'll be accused of using Alinsky tactics against Perry.

366 There is no cultist but Jesus, and Smith is his Prophet!

367 Romney is the disgrace in all of this because he is whining like a liberal that his precious teensy-weensy feelings were hurt.  Is this what the Republican Party has come down to?  It's just one more reason I find Romney unacceptable and why Herman Cain (please, God, help him take the debate tonight) is looking better and better every day.

368 378 Romney is the disgrace in all of this because he is whining like a liberal that his precious teensy-weensy feelings were hurt.  Is this what the Republican Party has come down to?

I dunno, Sarah Palin™ fired back angrily at every single slight, real or imagined, hurled at her by both the media and (potential) political opponents within her own party, and for this she was held up as a shining example of the kind of "fighter" the Republican Party needed.

Go figure.

369 Perry's campaign signed off on this guy, who has made similar statements in the past.

The guy is a minister.  It's his religious belief that the Church of Latter Day Saints is fundamentally flawed and wrong... and a cult, apparently.  Why should Perry enter into a theological debate with him over it? 

How many Mormons criticized their church leaders pre-1978 over the exclusion of men of African descent from the priesthood? 

Should every Catholic politician have to dress down Catholic clergy for their teachings on artificial birth control or the status of women in the church? 

If Jefferes were a member of Perry's campaign (or gubernatorial) staff, then I'd expect a personal repudiation.  But that's simply not the case here.  What happened here is that a clergyman, speaking at a religiously-overtoned political event, expressed his sincere belief about two of the candidates based on his religious beliefs.  He didn't call for violence to Romney.  He didn't even say Romney was evil (au contraire, he called him a good man).  He simply told people he thought would take his position seriously (Southern Baptists) that he thought one candidate was superior to another.

I completely disagree with the reverend's position, but I'm not going to argue with him about an opinion.  And that's what his characterization of the LDS Church was - an opinion. 


Since you believe that these remarks were entirely predictable, why hasn't Romney (or you) called for a repudiation of Rev. Jefferes by the organizers of the Values Voters Summit which I believe was the Family Research Council? 

370 The LSD Church is farrrrrout, baby!

371 The episode is over. I'm getting a little sick of Mitt's Mormon victim routine. He isn't endearing himself to me with that crap.

372 @379  Except by all the partisans of other candidates who are now crying like little bitches about each others' attacks.

She was always called a whiner by the very same people who are now whining.

This "Palinista" is laughing his ass off at these chumps we have to choose from now.

You Romney and Perry people got what you wanted: no Sarah.  Now you get to live with it.

Romney and Perry deserve each other.

373 You Romney and Perry people got what you wanted: no Sarah.  Now you get to live with it.

Oh no.  Whatever shall we do without the Wasilla Messiah?

Why, we might have to actually find another reality show to watch.

374 The guy is a minister.  It's his religious belief that the Church of Latter Day Saints is fundamentally flawed and wrong... and a cult, apparently.  Why should Perry enter into a theological debate with him over it?

Jeffress is entirely within his rights to be a pig-ignorant bigot who prescribes religious tests for political candidates.  Perry, on the other hand, as a presidential candidate, should know better than to allow himself to be linked to a guy like this.  He doesn't get a pass, especially since this looks a whole lot like the sort of "good cop/bad cop" routine that is one of the oldest games in politics.


Since you believe that these remarks were entirely predictable, why hasn't Romney (or you) called for a repudiation of Rev. Jefferes by the organizers of the Values Voters Summit which I believe was the Family Research Council?

Why do I care anything about either the Values Voters Summit or the Family Research Council?  Are they running for president?

375 Romney is a cocksucker.

376 Perry's campaign issued this statement on Friday: "He does not believe it's a cult." (referring to the LDS Church).  A direct contradiction of Jeffress.  So what was Mitt complaining about today?

As far as I can tell, Perry himself, unlike Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney, has not complained about unfair attacks or responded personally.  Seems about right to me.

377 "Perry, on the other hand, as a presidential candidate, should know better than to allow himself to be linked to a guy like this."

Don't worry, he isn't.

There's no reason for the guilt by association trick.

We could do the same to Romney, but it would be similarly goofy.

Remember he's married to lady who donated to Planned Parenthood?  Doesn't strike me as a legit thing to demand he repudiate, though.

378 "

If Perry won't explicitly disown this guy (and he hasn't) then everything Jeffress says reflects upon him.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 11, 2011 06:20 PM (qHVJJ)"

Absurd, since Perry specifically disagrees with the comment folks are upset about, and had no control over the rest of it anyway.  Sure, a lot of people disagree with Mormonism.  What's so bad about that?  It's unusual, and people have deep feelings about religion.  I suspect millions of Americans, supporters of every candidate including even Romney, think there is something peculiar about many different religions, from Catholisim to scientology to Mormonism.

You're telling me Perry has to screen out many mainstream baptists, even if he specifically disagrees with them, or it reflects on him? 

LOL.  This is silly.  Perry isn't bringing religion into this.  Cain has about Islam and now Romney is with his religious test.

The preacher said a preachery thing that Perry disagreed with.  There's no reason for serious folks to care about this, aside from being annoyed with the assumptions Romney is making about so many Americans.

379

351.  "Don't tell me what I  believe."

All right then, do you believe the Creator has a body of flesh and bones and lives on the planet Kolob with a day lasting a thousand earth years?  That anyone who denies the doctrine of Telestial Marriage is "damned"?

Do you believe Joseph Smith was murdered?  Do you believe a bunch of Semites lived in the Americas for centuries and killed each other off but their history was recorded in heaven on gold plates?

Do you believe the Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price was translated from Egyptian papyrii?

Do you believe that the Aaronic Priesthood is obsolete, the Melchizedek Priesthood complete and their will be no more Prophets from Jesus until the end?

380 Personally, when and if I get to heaven I expect to be sittin' in the cheap seats,  behind every last one of those Down Syndrome kids with IQs of 39 who didn't get a chance to suck their mother's teat.

381

386. " a pig-ignorant bigot "

I don't happen to like the chances for an afterlife for people who don't know themselves to be pig-ignorant bigots, at least when awake.

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383 I want all Republicans to be tougher than this, meaning I am tired of the "you must repudiate all third parties that even have the slightest tangential connection to you if they say anything that even slightly offends me"

This is a Democrat leftist victim game.

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387
Romney is fully within his rights.

Romney is a member of a cult. He can complain all he likes about people saying that about his faith, but it is what it is.

In Mormonism, Jesus lies to Peter when He says thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Because according to their beliefs, the Church Peter established fell into apostacy and Christianity ceased to exist.

Somehow, I don't see Jesus telling fibs...

388 The thing is, a lot of Perry's supporters are evangelical Christians.  They think Catholics are wrong.  They think Muslims are going to hell.  They think Scientology is crazy.

SO WHAT?

Romney is way, way out of line demanding Perry repudiate or condemn a huge number of peaceful people who don't agree with Mormonism, which to them is mutually exclusive with their views.

You don't hear Perry making any fuss over Romney's faith.  Romney needs to find something else to cry about.