1 You might be able to convince me to switch from Perry to Rick Santorum, but not to the Nancy Pelosi golbal warming cuddling thrice divorced Newt Gingrich.

2 It's not so much the immigration foot in mouth disease that Perry has....it is his lackluster performance in the debates.
Too often he has the deer in headlights look with that fake frozen smile when instead he should appear ready to slap the opponents around and call them on their bullshit.

instead we get nada.

3 McCotter! Now more than ever.

Or not.

4

I'll send my copy of "To Renew America" to any moron/ette who wants it if you cover shipping.

When Newt sat on the couch with blinky he became dead to me.

5 I only care about one thing: Who can beat Obama.  I don't care if Newt, Bachmann, Palin, Paul, or Cain have all the right answers.  None of them can beat Obama in a general election.  Palin and Newt come with too much negative baggage.  Bachmann, Paul, and Cain are (perceived as) fringe nutters.   I don't care how much of a "RINO" the final candidate is, so long as the Obama family gets served with their eviction papers come 2013.

6 Last night one commenter said it best when they said "no matter who the nominee is, can we send newt in to debate BO?"....not an exact quote but the gist none the less.

7 So what you're saying here is that people are losing their minds? Oh, okay then.

Can people calm the hell down? Cripes - it was one bad night.

(and no ace, I don't think it's been 3 bad performances in a row as I explained in the prior thread @ 220)

8 I missed the debate last night but I read in that a gay Soldier called up and asked a question about the repeal of DADT and he was booed and not one of the candidates defended his right to ask the question? Now I don't usually believe all that much from the Daily News so did anyone see that? If he was booed, and if he is still Active Duty Army, and If not one candidate castigated the audience for booing him, that is damn wrong. I was against the repeal of DADT, but if this guy is serving, he has ever right to ask what ever he wants without being booed.

9 Newt needs a new wife too Callista has crazy eyes. They scare me and I don't know if I could stand four years of it.

10 If Newt had more personal baggage I'd support him.

11

I want someone who can beat Obama and his soros funded billions.

Romney is a squish who and he may stab us all in the back if he doens't repeal tax-payer funded government controlled Obozo/nannyMcBotoxCare.

What about Guiliani?

 

12 I'd accept Newt as a VP choice. He wouldn't be my first choice, but I would accept him.

13 Pick up a copy of his global warming book and it will push that notion right out of your head.

14 out of all the debates so far, I think Newt has done the best.

Ace, last night in the live feed you said something about Newt having a writers mind and being disorganized? I wasnt following politics when he was Speaker, (I was still in high school) What did you mean by that? Was he a terrible Speaker?

15 What about Guiliani? Posted by: Lemon Kitten at September 23, 2011 12:27 PM (0fzsA) First I like him, but to many skeletons in his closet and if you remember , he was a lousy candidate last time

16 Has Newt changed his tune on AGW?

17 sorry, screw Newt.  Romney before Newt.  Cain before Newt.  Palin before Newt.  Christy before Newt.  Hell, Ron Paul before Newt.

18 I don't think Newt will ever be a top 3 pick for me.  He debates damn well, but a good debater must necessarily be able to deliver a real good devil's advocate performance, and from my point of view, that's what Newt is doing on a few things. 

Perry may have given the wrong answer to the base on the DREAM act, but my problem with his response is not necessarily the substance of his position, but the language he used to convey it.  We know Perry says what he means. 

For that reason, I'd support Newt as a VP candidate, but I wouldn't really vote for him.  Not after likening the dismantling of social engineering to, well, social engineering.

19 Second Look at Newt?

Hell no! 

His only service to his Country was retirement.

20 snore, snore, snore

21 Newt wants brown kids to be retarded the old fashion way, I use science.

22 Second look at Huntsman?  Okay, first look?

23 What happened to the old ace?  This one is making sense.

24 Perry said something that runs strongly counter to the conservative orthodoxy.

No, cuz he sounds like a functional retard while doing so.

25 At the beginning of the debate the audience booed Gingrich about as loudly as Huntsman.  Gingrich deserves a second look in order to remind us why the answer is OH HELL NO.

26 For a while now, I have been getting wiffs that you may be a lefty fifth column, so to speak, you are my number one blog, but, that wiff just won't go away.

27 meh.. this circus is wearing me out.. and then when Sarah jumps in... kabooom!

28 Which may be why Romney continues to do well -- his bullshit is the oldest. **** It could be fossilized which means we can't even smell it -when he tosses it.

29 Cain is looking better.  Not sure he could withstand questions on details, though.

30 Second look at Huntsman?

His tie last night burned out my retinas, and now I can't look at anything.

31 Perry said something that runs strongly counter to the conservative orthodoxy.

I don't buy that it's that line that made anyone go "What about Gingrich? He's been sounding good," but seriously, it's not a merely unorthodox statement.

RAUN POL! makes unorthodox—conservative-but-not-in-the-current-standard-usage-kind-of-way—points (and he does other stuff, too, that's bad).

Perry's "heart" shit was a reflex. There's no thought in it. No policy. No principle. No here's-where-and-why-I-stray. Only identity. "I'm not one of those people."

The relationship between the GOP and its voters is strained on exactly that line: Are they us, we them, in this together? Seemingly not.

That's the open nerve right now. And Perry slapped his dick down on it.

(I still think Perry's "fine." Because everyone else is so much less so.)

32 ace, weren't you one of the first to ditch Perry last night during the live blog? 

33 And a deadlocked convention turns to the Fat Man from NJ

34

hayzoos h kristos, people- let's not be so fickle so far out from the general election next year

newt is an updated wm jennings bryan

also, he's a dumpy little troll who is unelectable

35 A single loudmouth booed,  He was promptly squelched by the people sitting near him.   At the time it didn't come across as something a candidate needed to address but of course the media has exaggerated the incident. 

36 Newt needs a new wife too Callista has crazy eyes. They scare me and I don't know if I could stand four years of it.

You know she gives the best BJ's on the planet though. He divorced his dying wife on her death bed to get them consistently.

I mean. Damn.

37 27  Me too.  I have to keep reminding myself that it's a marathon not a sprint.

38 A single loudmouth booed, He was promptly squelched by the people sitting near him. At the time it didn't come across as something a candidate needed to address but of course the media has exaggerated the incident. Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at September 23, 2011 12:32 PM (8v6LV) Thanks. It is not unlike the Daily News to try to bad mouth Republicans

39 Perry didn't just say bad things.
He said bad things badly, making my confidence that he can win go down, and his current desirability in parity with Newt, who has been hot.

So if I must accept some bad things, why shouldn't I lean toward the one campaigning better?

The logical followup to that question of course is why not Romney then? Well the BS about changing his book kind of irks me a lot. Lying about it, irks me more. And despite Newts tough talk about the Ryan plan, which was BS, Newt actually presided over the first balanced budget in decades. So I *am* warming to him, and would consider him if he became the major !Romney option.

Right now though, Cain is looking better and better.

40

But I know three months ago people announced that Newt had jumped the shark and should abandon his presidential campaign in disgrace, and spend the next year attempting to atone for taking a cheap shot at a brave plan, just to move the needle a little in polls

But he's a very good debater.  Isn't that really what counts the most?  Debating.

41 i need a barf bucket because i was thinking that very thought....give newt a second chance......i denounce myself

42 well if Mittens win the nomination on election day we get a choice between Obama and White Obama. Perry needs to get his shit in order.

43 A single loudmouth booed

Your ears and TV might well be better than mine,  it sounded like maybe 10% of the audience booing.

44 Nice point, Ace. Of course, you are right. Perry may look like the Second Coming in a few months.

But my coming out of the closet (as it were) for Newt really has to do with a fierce hunger, after Bush I and II,  for someone who understands and can articulate fearlessly conservative arguments in a way that appeals to the masses.

I just don't get that from Perry. He seems to me to be the guy that is pure pol, whatever it takes to get elected. It just happens that what it takes in Texas is further right than what it takes in Massachusetts.

45

My perspective: The guys who are performing the best in the debates are not going to get elected, specifically Gingrich and Cain.

Romney is like the guy who wants to be student body president. You can tell he wants it bad, but there is no reason to vote for him other than he wants it.

Ron Paul is the crazy old uncle that everybody laughs about and then sends him off to the armchair in the living room by himself. Why can't the Republican Party get rid of this idiot?

Michelle Bachman looked like the Wicked Witch of the East. She needs to work on her look. How about a hair cut?

Santori, or whatever his name is, doesn't seem that bright. But then neither did Rick Perry *sob*.

NM governor {I don't even remember his name) looked high. Legalized that marijuana did we?

Huntsman's answers were OK, but no one wants Obama lite.

46 it sounded like maybe 10% of the audience booing.

They were saying "Boo-urns".

47

When I heard that Perry was so conservative that he thought the country got off track with the New Deal, I was on board.  Then I hear this DREAM Act stuff...Makes me look at Santorum again.

Ace, speaking of Santorum, you wrote recently about how Jon Stewart's goal of "niceness" in our policy disputes was really a trivial waste of time.

I remember he had a great laugh about the google-bombing done to Santorum.  Isn't that more proof that his niceness campaign is just BS? 

48 If Newt was nominated, I would vote for him in the general but I have a number of problems with him. While he is intelligent and politically savvy (mostly), his judgment has not always been the best and a number of his best statements no longer seem to reflect his true beliefs. So Newt talks a good game but he is untrustworthy and prone to scandal.

49 No way I'd vote for Newt, unless he wins the nomination. He's dangerous, and has a crazy (3rd) wife. Great debater though.

50
No first, second, or third look at Newt for me.

But it is very important for the nominee to have Newt's full support in the general election. Newt, as an ally, can be a very effective force.

And Ron Paul's endorsement, too, can be very helpful. We cannot afford to alienate a single potential voter in the '12 election.

51 really people, everything that is happening right now is just so much jockeying for position. Trial balloons. Chalkboard stuff. The real winnowing process comes when the primary season starts. So right now, although there are polls coming out every friggin showing this guy up and that guy down, it all remains in play. The general is a year away. That's a fucking eternity in politics. Let it play out.

52 Your ears and TV might well be better than mine, it sounded like maybe 10% of the audience booing. Posted by: Bob Saget at September 23, 2011 12:36 PM (F/4zf) If that's true, it was wrong of the Candidates not to defend that Soldiers right to ask his question. If he is indeed in the Army, then he has earned that right. I suspect most of the audience did not

53 Jeebus - Ace is now considering Sub-Tard conclusions? Nominate Newt and watch him eviserate Precedent Lucky Charm. Oh Yeah, you will get real conservative government with structural shifts of power back to the States. So he sat on a couch with a crazy lady once - that just proves he is open minded to the press.

54 Is the AmCit in-state Texan student attending UT-Austin having 5% of his tuition used to fund illegal immigrant student tuition? Beck caller says so today

55 Santorum is dead to me. He's a whiny, nasty little piece of work.

56 his bullshit is the oldest.

Aged like a fine wine.

57 Newt will make an excellent VP for teh Sarah.

58 OT: Senate kills the House CR bill 59 to 36. Reid on the floor now. (ChadPergram)

The House is adjourning after their last vote.

59

"...now Newt Gingrich is on fire and may be the best hope we have."

WTF?!?  Why do we even bother?  Just surrender the damn country & move to Panama, already!

60 A hands-off approach to the economy based around the removal of the tax and regulatory burdens that smother recovery while feeding our vapiric government. That is my priority, and I don't really care about any other fringe issues right now. And, yes, in our current situation immigration is just another fringe issue. No matter who's President the situation is likely to remain largely unchanged. If only because We Are Out Of Money for additional border enforcement, fences, force-fields, mass deportations, or whatever you think would "fix" this problem. I'm willing to give Perry the same leeway on this issue that I gave Dubya. Gay marriage? Couldn't care less, frankly. If that's super important to you, then work it out on the state level. That's where it should be decided anyway. Conservatives are almost as whiny and easily distracted as the left, these days. It's a cultural thing and we're allowing ourselves to indulge in self-pity and acting out instead of taking a stand on actual problems.

61 Just surrender the damn country & move to Panama, already! Posted by: Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg at September 23, 2011 12:41 PM (cqZXM) It's hot as hell down there

62 52, If that's true, it was wrong of the Candidates not to defend that Soldiers right to ask his question. If he is indeed in the Army, then he has earned that right. I suspect most of the audience did not

Good lord, he asked his question.

63 38 A single loudmouth booed, He was promptly squelched by the people sitting near him. At the time it didn't come across as something a candidate needed to address but of course the media has exaggerated the incident.
Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at September 23, 2011 12:32 PM (8v6LV)

Thanks. It is not unlike the Daily News to try to bad mouth Republicans

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 23, 2011 12:33 PM (i6RpT)

It should also be pointed out that people on stage cannot necessarily hear what we hear.

64 If that's true, it was wrong of the Candidates not to defend that Soldiers right to ask his question. If he is indeed in the Army, then he has earned that right. I suspect most of the audience did not

D'oh!  Epic misunderstanding fail on my part.  The booing I was talking about was at the very beginning when the candidates were introduced.

65 I just listened to it.. one real loud guy and a few others.

Judge for yourself:  http://tli.tl/X6g3nG

66 Gay marriage? Couldn't care less, frankly. If that's super important to you, then work it out on the state level. That's where it should be decided anyway.

That's the problem, isn't it?  The courts won't let it be a state issue.

67 If that's true, it was wrong of the Candidates not to defend that Soldiers right to ask his question. If he is indeed in the Army, then he has earned that right. I suspect most of the audience did not Good lord, he asked his question. Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 23, 2011 12:42 PM (OhYCU) No it's more than Good Lord. Look I'm in the Navy and I was dead set against repealing DADT. But I am offended this Soldier would be booed for simply stating his position. He's earned that right.

68 But my coming out of the closet (as it were) for Newt really has to do with a fierce hunger, after Bush I and II,  for someone who understands and can articulate fearlessly conservative arguments in a way that appeals to the masses.

It's too bad I'm not running.

69 I think the debates are showing us that Romney is in the top tier, and everyone else is 2nd tier.

Someone needs to rise up to top tier to challenge Romney.

70 Perry was wrong about not the US not selling F-16s to India (the US made the offer, but the Indians refused), but he sure as heck wasn't wrong about the US refusing to sell arms to Taiwan.

Newt talks a good game, but he has so much baggage that I would prefer that he doesn't become the nominee.  

71 OK you frickin Morons here's the deal, my government that can't tell with any accuracy whether or not it will rain tomorrow now says my satellite retirement plans are not lookin good, cause now my space junk is gonna land in lybia, so I hope to hell it lands on gaddafys freakin head just so OBlahBlah can't say he got Gaddahfy too, after all he's been after the guy, kinetically now for 4 months in this quick in and out kinetic action.

Too bad for you guys but if i can't get my satellite retirement fund then you can't have it either I would rather it lanns on the little Lybian guys head just so OBlahBlah cant put another notch in his gun, and I happen to like Gaddafy, he got rid of his stuff, but hey thats' just how I roll. If I can't have it neither can you or OBlahBlah  so Gaddafy gets it on his in hiding head!

72 Perry just picked up Bolton for FP, I expect his responses in the future to tighten up considerably.

73 I'm not ready to jump on the Newt bandwagon or vote Perry off the island, yet.

Ricaro's got some 'splainin to do about immigration and has to rise to the occasion in the next debate, then we'll see.

Romney.. *quells desire to puke*

74

Perry comes with negative baggage, mittens comes with negative baggage, hell they all come with negative baggage. The negative baggage is only what you attach to a particular person.

The negative baggage belongs to you not them.

 

75 Someone bribe Paul Ryan into running, and quickly.

76 Newt is Romney with better answers and worse hair.  I loved Newt as House speaker, but he's another one of these "me me me, wait I didn't say that" guys.  He'd be a great chief of staff/advisor guy, but prez?  No way.  And you know what else?  I don't care that he introduced the first medical marijuana bill in Congress (circa 1980).

77
All together now!

...two...three...four...

 ♪ You've gotta have heart
All you really need is heart
When the odds are sayin' you'll never win
That's when the grin should start...

78
O/T

Here's an $11 mil-per-job solar energy plant courtesy of Obama.

http://tinyurl.com/3qt6dkq

79 I just listened to it.. one real loud guy and a few others. Judge for yourself: http://tli.tl/X6g3nG Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 23, 2011 12:44 PM (f9c2L) Yeah just listened- Not many people booed, but more than one and it was rather loud also. Would have been nice if they had defended this Soldier, who apparently was in Iraq?, from being booed at all. No big deal, but it should have been done.

80 >>>Ace, last night in the live feed you said something about Newt having a writers mind and being disorganized? I wasnt following politics when he was Speaker, (I was still in high school) What did you mean by that? Was he a terrible Speaker? Well he is widely known to be undisciplined. That has long been a knock on him. A little... bohemian, I think, as opposed to bourgeois. Bourgeois, like "has his shit all together." Romney is the ultimate bourgeois discipline guy. I think a president has to be pretty disciplined (but Bill Clinton was very undisciplined too, and he did okay, I guess). Another knock is that Gingrich has a lot of ideas, many good, some awful, and seems pretty indiscriminate in offering them all up. "Right wing social engineering" is just one example of many. Personally, I don't like his Smooth NeoCon aspect. By NeoCon, I mean the most-often cited definition: Those who pursue historically liberal ends but through conservative means. When you listen to Gingrich, there are not a lot of current government missions he opposes per se; he always has some new conservative way of achieving them. This is good/bad, depending on your POV. In a normal election, I'd say it's good. I would fight the Purity Brigades on this, and say "Well the public wants to hear this crap, it's good politics." But this election... I really would like to hear him (and others-- let me stress, and others) begin saying "Well we're frankly not going to pursue that particular liberal governmental mission any further, period." In that sense Gingrich isn't really worse than anyone else (only the lunatic Ron Paul speaks like that, and even he hedges -- he still likes Medicare Part D, for example!). But this is a real strong political trait of Gingrich. He's always dreaming up new, exciting conservative ways to achieve various goals. I don't think they're "liberal" goals per se, but they are goals pushed most by liberals. It is rare that you will hear Gingrich say "We ought not to be doing that." Instead he'll conjure up some new mechanism, supposedly a conservatively-informed one, for achieving that goal in a better, cheaper way. Again, sometimes this is a good thing... but to me he just always sounds so glib and make-it-up-as-we-go. Like this whole idea that we'd have "community boards," like WWII draft boards, to determine which illegals get amnesty... what? Huh? Did he really think that out or was that just another "new, transformative idea" he just came up with five minutes ago?

81
We've got heaaaaaaart

Mile 'n miles o' hearrrt

82 Someone bribe Paul Ryan into running, and quickly.

Yea, we want to run on SS, not jobs.

83 Ryan as P and Christie as the VP you don't mess with.  That's one BIG bucket of warm sh*t.

84 Hey one thing great about FOX News- They are NOT showing Abbas live at the UN

85 If only he weren't such an asshole.

86 Damn you Rick Perry.

I wanted to really like your presidental run, but you're steadily fuck*ng this up.

87 Newt's my favorite Republican!

88 Soldiers can't be booed?  What if 3 Marines in the audience did the booing?

What a whiney-ass.

89 Newt is Romney with better answers and worse hair.  I loved Newt as House speaker, but he's another one of these "me me me, wait I didn't say that" guys.  He'd be a great chief of staff/advisor guy, but prez?  No way.  And you know what else?  I don't care that he introduced the first medical marijuana bill in Congress (circa 1980).

Well... now I'm taking a second look at Newt.

...

...

Nope, still looks like Newt, unfortunately.

90 Again, sometimes this is a good thing... but to me he just always sounds so glib and make-it-up-as-we-go. Like this whole idea that we'd have "community boards," like WWII draft boards, to determine which illegals get amnesty... what? Huh? Did he really think that out or was that just another "new, transformative idea" he just came up with five minutes ago?

Posted by: ace at September 23, 2011 12:47 PM (nj1bB)

The problem is that Newt's ideas either require a political impossibility or scientific advancement beyond the next 200 years. 

91

 

 I'm thinking that Perry's "handlers"--God I HATE that term in ANY context--decided that being outspoken and direct brought him into the realm of unelectability.  Can't be too controversial, lest you lose the mantle of appeal to the "moderates". So don't bitch, his new-found gentility is precisely what moderates need.

 

 Or some such fucking bullshit that somebody decided was required.

92 Hey you know what I say fuck it lets put Ron Paul in office then we can solve our own problems. Isn't that what he's been sayins all along. We go back to natural selection without government anything. WTF when you think about it thats what made this country before the libtards took over!!!!! or no.......

93
Get this. The US might vote "present" for the Palestinian vote.

Present.

94

Sounds like I missed an excruciating 2 hours last night while at work.

As hinted at in a previous post, with this many candidates the only thing this format is good for is to provide sound bites to be used agasint someone later. 

If we get the marginal candidates out (Paul, Santorum, Cain, Huntsman, and that other random guy who showed up), we'll have more elbow room for the rest to say what they need.  Newt can't win the primary or the general, but he has value in these debates.  Bachmann is sunk, but unlike most of the other marginal candidates she actually has a level of support measurable above the margin of error.

Perry has so far shown himself to have a lot more clay on his feet than I hoped.  I still think he will be the best candidate in the end, but it sure would be nice if he could rise above the gaffes he keeps making.

Romney, to me, would be at best a more moderate version of Bush--so worse on foreign policy (though better than Obama), and probably a similar domestic agenda that doesn't take a meat cleaver to the budget like we need.

Ugh.  Maybe we should consider forcibly recruiting Jeb Bush.  He's got the experience of Perry, decent conservative cred, and likely better PR-fu.  And don't get me started on she-who-must-not-be-criticized, she's not the answer.

95 85 If only he weren't such an asshole.

If "ifs" were fifths, we'd all be drunk. 

About Ryan, it would might be preferred that he stay where he is, influencing fiscal policy from the Congressional side.

96 >>>Jeebus - Ace is now considering Sub-Tard conclusions? Do you not get that last line was ironic? The whole post is about "Let's remember how quickly we write people off, and then three months later, completely forget why we wrote them off in the first place."

97 I'd still rather have our bench than to have to try to sell the SCoaMF for a second term.

98 Sorry you all can't find a candidate.

99 Let's just introduce a brand new "savior" each week up until the general election.  That'll keep everybody off their toes! 

100 Soldiers can't be booed? What if 3 Marines in the audience did the booing? What a whiney-ass. Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 23, 2011 12:49 PM (OhYCU) Soldiers can be booed, but this guy is serving his country with honor. Less than 4% of the country can say they EVER did. I think to boo him is disgusting. What kind of a Country or Party have we become? That was just dead wrong that he was booed. Sorry if you can't see that.

101 Which may be why Romney continues to do well -- his bullshit is the oldest. Carefully aged in finest Massachusett(e)s maple cooperage, tended by vigilant Romneybots and decanted into shiny new bottles. "Château La Powerpointe 2008... an excellent choice, sir."

102 I mean wow, if we could combine santoreum and bachman and cain with a dash of ron paul tempered by huntsman for foreign policy and combine cain's and romney's and huntman's economic plans to be tweeked by paul ryan and administered by Ryan and McCotter.  And then if we could add the business experience of Cain and romney, the governing experience of newt and perry and mitt and santoreum and bachman and paul and then take huntsman's foreign policy and his experience and temper it with ron paul's isolationaism and for good measure add a bit of donald trump and Chris Christie for balls and Rudy Guiliani for courage, well then, we'd have a hell of a candidate.

The problem with the question about the vice president was that everyone was thrown by it.  I thought herman cain when he said he was going to "play the game" might catch on, but he even missed the opportunity.  The real answer to that question was to actually construct a VP candidate the way a real presidential nominee would do it.  Like "well let's add a woman but she should have governing experience and business experience and should have had time home as a soccer mom and, if possible, some military service. then let's make sure she is part black, part hispanic and have a little bit of white and American Samoan thrown in for good measure oh and if possible some native American thrown in too.  Oh and let's make sure she was born in the south, raised in the midwest, went to college and grad school in the northeast and now resides on the west coast.  Oh and let's make sure she isn't "anti science" but just has a healthy dose of questioning science and requiring proof.  And on the borders, let's make sure she is a person who believes we should seek a solution that serves the law and doesn't hurt the lawbreaker, proving she has a heart.  And oh yeah, let's hope she's been a governor who helped business create a lot of jobs.  Oh, and while you are at it, let's hope along with military and government experience, let's hope she has ordinary business experience and is not considered a "washington insider" and she must be a person who despise the current lobbying system and will abolish it and not pay lip service to the people's concerns about K street.  And let's hope she's a fiscal conservative but a moderate on social issues and someone who is a constitutionalist"

We could go on and on crafting this VP candidate and it might be a fun exercise.  And then we could do it for the presidential candidate only we have a name for that guy/girl it's "generic republican" and I dare anyone to put "generic republican" up against the current field. the MSM won't do it, it wouldn't be pretty.

103 I wish Romney weren't in the race at all.

Damn would that lead to a much better primary process, without kneecapping the GOP on vital issues.

Newt vs Perry.  Both respect eachother, and yet they have wildly different skill sets.  It would be a lot more interesting.

Instead, we are left not debating who is the better president, but if Romney's nearest competitor (it's changed a few times) remains unscathed from whatever happened in the last week, usually something nasty.  It's all about electability, so whoever is a threat to Romney need only be made less electable.  Simple as that, and I do mean simple, because we need need to wise up as a party.

Perry ain't shredding Romney effectively, which is annoying because I think he's trying to and I think it should be quite easy to do.

Fight fire with fire, Perry.  Saturate New Hampshire with ads about tax increasing gun grabbing Mitt.  Then use the ground you gain to enjoy a little freedom to be authentic and open about your goofs.  If you're less defensive, you can sound less defensive.

Even on things cons disagree with Perry on, I think he can gain if he acknowledges the legitimacy of the other POV (such as opposition to the low tuition).

He just needs to be less defensive.  He won't win on these issues, but he can win on authenticity.  And he can worry about Romney in a totally different format.  The debates are the wrong place to try to beat Romney.  Use television advertising to communicate Romney's actual record, and he's going to lose a ton of ground.

104 Get this. The US might vote "present" for the Palestinian vote. Present. Posted by: Soothsayer at September 23, 2011 12:50 PM (sqkOB) I doubt it, not if obama cares one whit about getting re-elected. That would be toxic

105
Toby is right. Obama faces an uphill battle for reelection.

But repeats of last night's performance by that gang of fools will only make it easier for Obama.

106 Whats all the hullabaloo, we are determining who would be best for president, not master debater or to build the next space ship. If we want to "at this point" want to determine the winner on the debates then it is Newt and Mitt as he winners. Of course they are both big establishment types who have skeletons galore in their closets but thankfully, they aren't the only horses in the race.

107 Sorry you can't find a candidate. 

Romney/Rubio 2012.

108 I feel there have been too many instances of bandwagon-hopping in this young pre-primary season and the result has been broken hearts and calls to consider or draft other candidates. At some point, the field will be set and we will be forced to choose between our imperfect candidates.

109 How many skeletons have to fall out of Newt's closet before this nonsense championing him stops?

110 My biggest fear of the repeal of DADT is promotion boards seeking to promote gays just for diversity's sake and looking at "the numbers" just to make sure they're promoting the right percentage of gays vs. people who can deliver the mail. How many qualified men and women will get passed over so the military social experiment works out for the numbers?

111 Waiting by the phone.

112 Wait, is Mitch Daniels contracting a severe case of the RINOs?

h/t - Weasel Zippers

Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels: Obama Is Not A SocialistÂ…

The "socialist" label is more than a mere insult, Governor. 

113 100,  heh, Savior of The Week

114

I was really really on the Perry bandwagon because I thought he had the chops to take on Obama and come back with the witty stuff during debates, boy am I wrong.  He stood there last night laughing at himself when Romney replied to his comments and didn't even look toward Romney, it was weird. 

I'm starting to believe my friends in Texas who told me to run, run far far away from Perry.

But who do we pick out of that pathetic bunch that can spar with SCOAMF's brilliant oratory skills and hit them out of the park one after the other during debates.  There isn't one of the lot that can do that.  Not from what i've seen so far.

115

Romneycare pales in comparison to Pedro Perry's Illegal Posse....

I'll take Mittens over Mexico's BFF

116 Perry and his campaign should have had this Dream Act issue ready for effective defense the minute he announced in South Carolina. That campaign roll-out was a thing of pure political beauty. Perry and his campaign jumped in I presume sensing a dissatisfaction among conservative primary voters. How in the hell do you fill that niche with the old George W./Karl Rove "You're a bigot if you oppose a soft stance on illegal immigration" line. A line which, if fu*kin Perry had been paying the slightest bit of attention, he had to know was what lead, in large part, to a divided and demoralized Republican Party in 2008. The more I think about it, the more pissed I get. WTF was/is Perry thinking?

117 I loved Newt as House speaker, but he's another one of these "me me me, wait I didn't say that" guys.

He and Romney are starting to look like Jake Blues in the sewer tunnel with Carrie Fisher spouting anything he thought she wanted to hear that would make it better.

118 It's too bad I'm not running.

Posted by: Chris Christie

Yeah, we really need another turd out here.

119 From an earlier post: We've a long way to go until the handle is pulled in 2012. Between now and then candidates "performances" will go up and down. What you see and hear today will not be the same 5 months from now and maybe who you support now might not be who you support next year. All this hand wringing shows me the passion of the conservative base and that's a good thing. I hope our final candidate recognizes this, realizes that this is the way of a true Republican and governs in that fashion.

120
I doubt it, not if obama cares one whit about getting re-elected. That would be toxic.

This ties in with my previous comment. Obama is doing everything he can to hand victory to a Republican in '12. But all those people on stage last night want no part of an easy victory.

Re: the Palestinian vote. What's Obama gonna do? He can't vote No; it's simply not in his nature to support Israel so openly. And he can't vote Yes because that would be outrageous.

That leaves "Present."

121 My biggest fear of the repeal of DADT is promotion boards seeking to promote gays just for diversity's sake and looking at "the numbers" just to make sure they're promoting the right percentage of gays vs. people who can deliver the mail. How many qualified men and women will get passed over so the military social experiment works out for the numbers? Posted by: Jypsea Rose at September 23, 2011 12:54 PM (A4C5M) If that's your biggest worry, I think you can rest assured that will not happen. First of all I don't see a box for sexual preference on the FitRep Reports and also with all the budget cuts no one is getting promoted ( only partially joking about that)

122 I am giving ol' Ricky Santorum a good, hard look about now.  Slick Rick Perry is off his rocker if he thinks that he can skate his liberal immigration policies past the primary electorate while we're above 9% unemployment.  That s*** might float during better economic times, but these days it's gonna sink to the bottom of the pot.

123 We still have not found what we're looking for. I watched the debate and honestly thought-ok I will vote for whoever ends up on top. That is not saying I am enthused in any way for any of them. I say this remembering that Reagan gave me heartburn many times after I cast my first vote for him. Politics are game of move the ball not voting for the papacy. Perhaps it is a byproduct of being older and more cynical but I assume the professional politicos will not "get" their own base. Because they are trying to "get" the ones not yet voting for them. The bazaar thing is it would be relatively simple to create a platform for a winner here. Talk ONLY about how the establishment wrecked the economy and how the American Small businessman will save it. How this valiant person is struggling against a coalition of well meaning but reality flawed leftist. We should co-opt their word and say what we need is Smart Sustainable Progress. Pound daily the cost of entertaining liberal feel good causes in the federal budget. That is the battle field. All other issues should only be discussed as they relate to the theme. Border insecurity is hurting the bottom line how? There is a real dollar figure out there to elucidate how much each American is contributing by the Feds negligence.

124 Newt is a no go.

125 Newt was clearly the smartest guy on the stage last night but in real life he screws up.  The reason people are jumping all over the place is no one is really shinning right now.  Perry got the "He's nor Romney vote" untill he opened his yap to much.  It looks like once again we will be holding our nose in the voting booth. Anybody but Obama still rules.

126 Toby is right. Obama faces an uphill battle for reelection. But repeats of last night's performance by that gang of fools will only make it easier for Obama. I mentioned this yesterday... Consider listening to the latest Ricochet podcast with Michael Barone and Haley Barbour. They are not nearly as sanguine about Dick Soetero's defeat as some of us are. Barbour thinks you have to go back to 1896 to find a historical precedent for an incumbent in Dick's position to be booted out. Barone looked at the governorships changing hands in 2010 and didn't see enough change to imply a "wave." I won't defend their assertions, but do listen for yourselves and consider. They also don't believe that we may even keep a Republican House under some circumstances. http://bit.ly/nuU7Ue

127 Before last night, I was 99% certain Palin would not run.

Now?  That door's open a bit further.

I've got a bad feeling about this...

128

>But who do we pick out of that pathetic bunch that can spar with SCOAMF's brilliant oratory skills

 

he won't have his trusty teleprompter during the debates- america will see that 0bama is, in fact, a stuttering clusterfuck

129 You hear these awful things, you react badly, eventually you halfway forget about them.

I'm sort of counting on that.

130 If you think Perry did a bad job at the debate, you should have seen Mitch Daniels on Jon Stewart.  A babbling, apologizing, RINO squish fool.

131 2 It's not so much the immigration foot in mouth disease that Perry has....it is his lackluster performance in the debates. Too often he has the deer in headlights look with that fake frozen smile when instead he should appear ready to slap the opponents around and call them on their bullshit.

instead we get nada.
_________

Or, more succinctly, we want 'nads, we get nada.

132 Soldiers can be booed, but this guy is serving his country with honor. Less than 4% of the country can say they EVER did. I think to boo him is disgusting. What kind of a Country or Party have we become? That was just dead wrong that he was booed. Sorry if you can't see that.

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 23, 2011 12:52 PM (i6RpT)

Here's a former soldier's perspective.....

133
I certainly agree that we'll be lucky to keep the House in '12. Unless we get our shit together and stop acting like pussies, we'll probably flip the Senate, lose the House by a few seats and lose the White House.

134 128, Damn you Rick Perry, you've made Palin the President.

/

135 Although I wouldn't have booed the gay Soldier, it did strike me as kind of like bringing in the hispanic reporter to ask an immigration question or asking a libertarian if you really want people to go without treatment.  When you have an issue framed that way, the focus becomes on the emotional backdrop of the question and not the issue.  Are you so heartless that you would court martial this guy fighting for your rights just for being gay?

136 Pence. All we do is approach him and say, uh, well what would we say? What a CF.

137 Fratricide and nihilism. Get it all out of your systems now, boys and girls. These playground games are all good as long as they don't muddy the water. Pouting and making the emotion driven claim that some do that they will just stay home on election day if they don't get what they want is just childish.
I will be thrilled with any of the candidates. I can't always have what I want, or even close to it sometimes.
The fact is- our principal is an asshole, and we have the privilege of getting him out of the office. The real work begins in 2012, and afterwards.

138
oh, and Michael Barone is the elections expert.

139 Are we betting everything on the debates between G. Repub. and Obama?  They're dull!  They say nothing.  We're not going to have a "Weeeeeell" moment, or a "You are no JFK!" moment. 

People watch them but they don't really pay as much attention as you think they do.  Stop with these fantasies of "...AND THE OBAMA WAS SO DEVASTATED THAT HE WAS CALLED A SOCIALIST TO HIS FACE THAT HE BURST INTO FLAMES!" 

These primary debates are important but of the many traits each candidate has, the warrior mentality isn't that high.

140 Get this. The US might vote "present" for the Palestinian vote.

Present.


Posted by: Soothsayer at September 23, 2011 12:50 PM (sqkOB)

As soon as you can point to a map and it says Palestine, we'll talk.  Otherwise, NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!  Just talking about it is f*cking stupid.

They just want Israel gone......period.

141 Here's a former soldier's perspective..... Posted by: © Sponge at September 23, 2011 01:00 PM (UK9cE) No disagreement, but at the same time he should not have been booed. Stone silence would have been more appropriate.

142 Perry's poor performance creates a problem for Mitt. Romney chose to draft behind the lead car because he can't generate enough interest/trust to be the lead car. Unfortunately, he may have picked the wrong car to draft behind. Now he may find himself in 3rd position with no hope of overtaking the leaders. It really sucks to be Romney.

143 @143 That doesn't figure. At least in my little brain.

144

Have you ever asked yourself what a Ron Paul administration would look like. I mean the details of everyday life. hmmm What could we do with zero federal regulations,no fed reserve hmmm.

145 Doggone!

Did that debate suck? heckyeah!

146 Posted by: © Sponge at September 23, 2011 01:03 PM (UK9cE)

No...they want Israel gone and all the Jews dead.

147

I'm taking the stuff we do here as kind of "inside baseball" politics, in that we tend to be more politically aware than the people who swing elections.  So to me anyway, the criticisms are more "can Perry seal the deal", or electability if you prefer that expression (I do).

It's why I argue against Palin for example.  Do I disagree with her on much?  No, not at all really.  Do I think she could win?  Hell no.

So I'm watching Perry through that lens and he's struggling.  Will I vote for him if he's still standing?  Sure I will.  I've had 12 years to get used to what he will and won't do, I'm ok with him.

So if that's how we tend to look at things, then considering Newt is, what's the word I'm looking for here?  Fucking crazy, that's what.  He cannot possibly win the general (I'm emphasizing to make a point, I don't believe he survives the primaries either).

148 For all intents and purposes, we have 2 RINOs as frontrunners (for the time being). Romney and his Romneycare, but tough talking on illegal immigration vs. Perry and "heart" for illegals. I don't think this is the way Perry wanted things perceived, but it is what it is.

149 Switch to Newt? Hell no. He should stick with "writing" alt-history novels (some of which are pretty darn good, though I'd be shocked if Newt had much to do with the actually writing) with the Fortschen guy, and leave politics to people who can decide if they're conservative or liberal from one minute to the next.

150 Has anyone read The Book of Mormon?  Mark Twain said that it was like chloroform in print.

Fawn Brodie, an apostate, wrote No Man Knows My History, which is a pretty good history of Joseph Smith and the formation of the Mormon Church.

Newt is a convert to Catholicism.

Is discussing their religion relevant?

151 Serious question: Now that homosexuality is acceptable in the armed services are Adultery and Fraternization now ok?

152 @151 Is discussing their religion relevant? Are you kidding?

153 Get this. The US might vote "present" for the Palestinian vote.

Present.


Posted by: Soothsayer at September 23, 2011 12:50 PM (sqkOB)

I doubt it, not if obama cares one whit about getting re-elected. That would be toxic

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 23, 2011 12:53 PM (i6RpT)

I don't think so either; El JEFe dispatched one of his lackeys to write a huge letter to the WSJ arguing they aren't anti-Israel.  To turn around and say "we ddn't really mean it, you hooked-nosed bastards" would increase the boundaries of dumbfuckery by this administration to levels even I didn't foresee.

154 134 I certainly agree that we'll be lucky to keep the House in '12. Unless we get our shit together and stop acting like pussies, we'll probably flip the Senate, lose the House by a few seats and lose the White House.

Mediscare and the charges of Do-Nothing Congress will be the bigger problem in certain close districts. Also, due to redistricting, we have some conservative lawmakers having to run against each other.

155 Posted by: Dave in Texas at September 23, 2011 01:05 PM (PjVdx)

I think that many people have a romantic delusion that the losers will be able to instill in the winner of the nomination at least some of their politics. That's why we embrace people like Newt (I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire) when they say things that we like.

Of course in this day of instant polling and triangulation of message for each demographic, that is never going to happen, and I really doubt that it ever did.

156 For all intents and purposes, we have 2 RINOs as frontrunners (for the time being).

CINO might be more appropriate.  The Republican Party in general is squishy on actually doing anything about illegal immigration.  Both candidates are dead center in what is effectively the Republican/Chamber of Commerce position.

157 Oh and to the thread point:  Fuck Newt; debates like this are right in his wheelhouse and he's a cocksucking simpleton on everything else.  Maybe if the office was "President of Debates in the United States of America" I'd take him seriously.  He's shit the bed so many times on everything else they've put plastic sheets on it.

158 151   This reminds me:  As pessimistic as I am now, I'm so glad that Huckabee is out.

Silver lining, baby.

159 I haven't flipped on Perry, but I have moved Newt to second (still quite distant) behind Rick, pushing Romney further down on my list of acceptable candidates. 

160

Can we get our own reset button and start over?  None of the above fits my overall feeling about this crew.

161 That Costa Rican property is looking better every day.They have hawt woman down there too...

162 For all intents and purposes, we have 2 RINOs as frontrunners (for the time being).

Romney and his Romneycare, but tough talking on illegal immigration vs. Perry and "heart" for illegals.

Really?  Are we now defining deviation from any one point of the conservative platform as worthy of the RINO label?  I thought RINO's were Democrats who dress up as Republicans (Snowe, Specter, Schwarzenegger, etc...).  Now it's anyone who can't pass a purity test with a score of 100?

Maybe the tea party has hijacked reasonable debate after all.

163 One unifying message seems to be missing from the GOP campaign approaches: Government is the problem, not the solution. Or has this idea been roundly and finally rejected in our nation? If so, then we really are just a rump of western Europe and politics becomes a waste of time if we are interested in liberty. It seems the default, unexamined position is that our voters expect government to "fix the economy" or "create jobs" or "guarantee retirement and medical care and education in a sustainable way." If this is who we have become, it's really over. Can a candidate say "Government cannot guarantee or fix these things. We've been 'fixing' them for decades and making matters worse. The problem is demanding government cure the ills of the world or even your pocketbook's woes. It cannot." This is probably a very stupid question, and the answer is sadly obvious.

164 There's a lot of disenchanted twenty somethings running around.  They had a taste of politics with BO and now are seriously looking at the "other side".  newt and paul are doing the best job with attracting them.

huntsman figures, owing to money raising and the way things are going, that he'll be the last man standing and he just might be.

165 We've been at war with poverty for 50 years.

Poverty won.

166 148 "...considering Newt is, what's the word I'm looking for here?  Fucking crazy, that's what.  He cannot possibly win the general (I'm emphasizing to make a point, I don't believe he survives the primaries either)."

I guess I have a different perspective on Gingrich. He's spent a lot of time preparing for this. When he goes off the reservation, it's rhetoric designed to appeal to the swing voters (remember, that piece that actually decides elections?). Look at his American Solutions and books.

Fine, he sat on a couch with Pelosi. What policy does that actually translate to? He is on the record as opposed to Cap and Tax. Do you really believe the guy that led the conservative revolt in 1994 has somehow changed his fundamental political philosophy?

This is a man who knows what it takes to win and is trying to find the sweet spot between alienating the base and rhetorically appealing to moderates and independents.

167 We've been at war with poverty for 50 years. Poverty won. Brother, you said it.

168 First of all I don't see a box for sexual preference on the FitRep Reports Sure...but wait until the Gay Military Coalition testifies in front of Congress to complain that they're finding their members (vs. straight military) aren't promoting compared to their counterparts are being discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. DON'T get me wrong...my issue isn't with gays serving openly in the military...my issue here is the possibility it will be used to turn them into ANOTHER victim class demanding preferential treatment.

169

I'm going to bitterly cling to Perry's fading glory and if he finally flames out I will go on an epic nut punching perrywinkle rampage that will go all scorched earth over this blog....

 

Then I guess I'll vote for that cock sucking, non Obamma care repealing Romney "The Uncanny Valley."

170 huntsman figures, owing to money raising and the way things are going, that he'll be the last man standing and he just might be

What are Huntsman's fundraising figures?  I've never seen them reported.  All I remember reading is that Huntsman (Jr) will not put more of his own money into the campaign.  His father is wealthy, but I don't know that he's that wealthy.  I mean, Huntsman is still in Santorum territory when it comes to the primary polling.  Would dad throw money away after that? 

171 How come nobody questions Romney on his support for gay marriage? http://tinyurl.com/313j427

172 Newt was in the trenches fighting for Dede Scozzafava.  The term RINO gets thrown around alot, but that was as clear cut a case of a RINO as there is. 

It's really, really hard for me to get behind a guy who thought that was a good decision.

173 168 We've been at war with poverty for 50 years.

Poverty won.

Brother, you said it.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 23, 2011 01:15 PM (AZGON)

come on guys, don't I get any credit for swiftly moving this along?

174 Herman Cain Baby!!!!!

175 @171
I retract that post.  I failed to realize I was engaging the troll from NYC. 

176

In 3 debates the only noticeable winner was Newt. So, as some suggest, that debating skills aren't presidential duties, then why are we watching them? What is the purpose of debates if not to score who is better at them? I am once more confused by the chatter here. Can someone tell me why an immediate front runner who has disappointed the audience 3x is still to be defended? Didn't we spend 8 years defending Bush who chose not to defend himself? Don't want to go there again. Just sayin.

177 "Second Look at Newt?" Meh. Sure. Feel free. Go ahead and give the election to President Gutsy Call while you're at it. If the best we can prop up for the Republican party and conservatives is Newt Gingrich, then we deserve to lose.

178 Great question at next debate:  Candidate X, you're against allowing gay men and women to serve in the military.  Please share your military experience with us.

179 These things pass? What principles you mean?

180 People are thinking about switching to Gingrich because he can debate. They're reacting to the fact that Perry clearly can't... at all.

Vis-a-vis Mitt Romney and electability, convince me that there's a rational reason to believe Mitt Romney will repeal ObamaCare. Just convince me of that one thing, and I'll vote for him despite how much he sucks. The problem is he won't repeal ObamaCare, and we all know it; hence, why electability isn't the only thing to consider. It's high on the list, sure, but if we can't even do no-duh, basic, things like repealing ObamaCare (either with 60 votes, through reconciliation, or by changing the filibuster rules--doesn't matter how) then it's pointless.

181

Which may be why Romney continues to do well -- his bullshit is the oldest.

Really old cowpats don't smell, and can be used as fuel.

182 The Plus side: Highly intelligent Excellent debater Good to very good communicator Very good on foreign affairs Initial track record as Speaker of the House The Minus side: Sitting on the sofa with Pelosi about AGW Attacking Paul Ryan's plan as "social engineering" Personal baggage with divorce and current wife Tendency to over-think issues to the extent of incoherence. Unfairly tarred by MFM as a bully to Clinton during the Lewinsky affair Look, if he does become the candidate, I will be behind him 100%. He would be very good IF, and only IF, he stays a conservative and does not compromise.

183 I miss  Reagan..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px7aRIhUkHY

184

One thing is clear.  People outside TX are really seeing Perry for the first time, and he's leaving a crappy impression.  But people in TX are probably less surprised.  In the last Republican primary in TX, believe it or not, Perry's chief competition was Debra Medina, not Hutchison.  That is, until Media imploded.  But if Medina had not imploded, I think you'd have seen Perry in the fight of his life against someone no one had really heard of.  He had an easier time with Hutchison because she represented "DC", and in TX, we've had enough of DC.  But TX is more republican than democrat, so no matter who the dem nominee was, they were going to have a tough time. 

Now, Perry does give a good speech.  He just isn't capable of quick thinking on his feet in a debate format.  If he is capable, he certainly isn't showing it at least and I can't recall it being much during the primary here, where most issues were TX and not national or foreign policy.

What it seems to me is Perry assessed his popularity, figured it would translate into a large lead in polls, kind of waltz through the debates without causing people to think too much about any flaws he has, and that he would then spend the primary time working on his debating for when he would meet up with Obama.  Instead, his vulnerabilities have shown up early and often, and like a boxer with bad technique, his opponents are landing serious body blows.  If Mitt was really any good, he'd take out Perry with a right hook.  The fact that he's still standing, despite his vulnerabilities being so exposed in these primary debates, is less a testament to him than to the overall weakness of his opponents.  None of which bodes well for us in the general.

185 Really old cowpats don't smell, and can be used as fuel. Does this mean I can use Alan Simpson in my Weber grill?

186 173 Newt was in the trenches fighting for Dede Scozzafava.  The term RINO gets thrown around alot, but that was as clear cut a case of a RINO as there is. 

This is clearly his most egregious offense.He was clearly thinking party instead of ideology. I think some leaders in the GOP were clearly surprised by the depth of conservative and Tea Party anger against Business As Usual. Since ScuzzyFaceo later endorsed the Dem, I'm thinkin' that Newt is not believing that was such a hot decision.That would be a great question for the next debate.

The other thing about Gingrich is that he's intellectually curious. He'd challenge his advisers' assumptions and conclusions. How's that for a contrast with SCOAMF?

187 The real question is, with any of these guys - on what issues are they likely to wander off the pasture and require a Congress to ride herd over them?  

Who will do less damage if, for whatever reason, GOP control of the Congress is not absolute?

Who if anyone is truly likely to produce a smaller Federal government after four years?  Who will have to be restrained from following in the Bush 43/Nixon/LBJ pattern of throwing new agencies around like they're candy?

Who can we count on to bust heads at the EPA and DOE, shut down NASA GISS, and actually promote development of real energy sources?

Who has half a chance of fixing our immigration mess?

I see Romney as a little weak in all these areas, but not an existential threat in any of them.  

Unrepentant warmists like Huntsman and Christie are at the bottom of my list.

Rick Perry would argue that he's the one capable of taking immigration off the table, blunting the Dems' ability to use it as a wedge issue; the question is whether his way of doing this would amount to surrender.

188 Posted by: Jon in TX

I've read, or inferred maybe, that Perry doesn't debate or defend well against attacks from his right, but that he's good at attacking from the right.

Would you say that that is true?

189 Perry still has my vote, there's just noone else.

190 32 ace, weren't you one of the first to ditch Perry last night during the live blog? 

Posted by: Tami at September 23, 2011 12:32 PM (X6akg)

 

Heh.  Yeah, I remember thinkin' I sure was glad he wasn't around during the revolution.  Fuckin' A, grow a pair.  But that's Ace.

191 177  Newt may be an incredibly talented debater but his enormous ego and nasty streak would not help him in a general election. He is still the same as he was when he was forced to resign in '98.

192 Newt's creeping into 2nd place, but I'm not there yet. The thing that bothers me most about Newt are not the various slight departures from orthodoxy or the palling around with people like Pelosi and Sharpton, but the manner in which his marriages ended. I know that's a personal matter and people can discount that stuff, but the sorry excuse he offered - I was just so wrapped up in the nation's problems - bothers me. Also, while everyone loves his debate performances thus far, does anyone else get that he doesn't always actually answer the question asked. Sure, all the candidates do that and it's arguably a masterful debater's trick, but he has taken it to a new art form. Is he really giving very good answers or is he simply throwing back read meat that he knows his audience wants to hear?

193 Steyn just raised an interesting point, that Oblamer has declared a new federal disaster every two days. So, now we know why the libs have been very insistent on disaster spending, it's a stealth increase in federal spending (then again, without a budget, all increases have been stealthy) that has a nice sounding cover name, oh what about the (if I knew how to cross things out, I mean I do know how to do so in HTML, but I have no idea what pixuy usess) children, it's now the disasterssseW1@12@1112 Obama is scary good at maxing out executive power to bypass congress, the courts, and the people.

194 If Gingrich is our best hope we are in deep shit.

195

Before the first debate, I remember a thread here about "Advice for Perry in the Debate". ....Heh.

People, including Mr. Ace, seemed to be worried that Rick Perry was going to rip their heads off and shit down their necks.

Now, people are glum because he seems all stuttery and meek, and isn't ripping their heads off.

Someone said on one of the other post-debate threads this morning, that "Perry doesn't seem to be taking these debates seriously". ....They are probably right. ....Neither is most of the country right now.

Perry still has my vote.....because I know that he is the one who can actually beat Obama. ....And I think that is why he is the one that team-SCoaMF fears the most.

196 Who will do less damage if, for whatever reason, GOP control of the Congress is not absolute?

Posted by: JEM at September 23, 2011 01:26 PM (o+SC1)

That's really the rub with candidates like Romney. Sure, if we have supermajorites in Congress, it almost doesn't matter who is in the WH, but we won't have supermajorities.

So, it does matter who is in the WH and whether they will have the fortitude to do what needs to be done even if it appears to be unpopular or risky.

197 Netanyahu bitch-slapping the UN on C-Span 3.

198 While I don't condone the booing of a soldier, I think it was more of a "I can't believe they're asking this stupid question (and hiding behind a gay soldier to do so)" than "he's gay, let's boo him." I'm sure that there are a few that would boo someone just because they were gay.  I didn't even notice the boos over the sound of rolling my eyes.

199

But who do we pick out of that pathetic bunch that can spar with SCOAMF's brilliant oratory skills and hit them out of the park one after the other during debates.  There isn't one of the lot that can do that.  Not from what i've seen so far.

Posted by: Jaimo at September 23, 2011 12:55 PM (9U1OG)

 

Seriously?  I would pay big money to see teh Newt unscrew King Putt's head and volley it into the field of spectators.  Will Newt get the nomination?  No, but I'm sure everyone here would toast pudding to that, my friend.

200 100,000 people arrive here a month, ugh,why?

201

183 ...I would add to that list of negatives for Newt:

Current wife Calista tragically resembles a sea gull.

What! ....I can't be the only one.

202 201 100,000 people arrive here a month, ugh,why?

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 23, 2011 01:39 PM (QxSug)

have you seen the competition?

203 170

I'm going to bitterly cling to Perry's fading glory and if he finally flames out I will go on an epic nut punching perrywinkle rampage that will go all scorched earth over this blog....

 

Then I guess I'll vote for that cock sucking, non Obamma care repealing Romney "The Uncanny Valley."

Posted by: Max Power at September 23, 2011 01:16 PM (q177U)

 

Can't stop laughing.

204

Thinking about the general election against Obama. Obama's tactics will likely be what we've seen already:

1.)Accusations of racism and

2.) blame Republicans for the financial crises and unemployment.

Neither of which stick to Perry, since his answer to the first one was given last night (at least in the perception of the swing voters) and his answer to the second is "Texas." He'd do fine in the general.

Question is: is the base now going to reject him on the basis of the first answer. Some commenters have.We'll see when it comes to people actually going to straw polls and caucuses. I suspect the ground game aspect will be more important than the debate. Don't know if Perry can shake enough hands while Mitt is mailing out and airing half-truths.  

 

 

205 The problem with Perry is not about issues, it's about the ability to make a case for his policies. Jeezus, for example, all Perry has to make the Social Security issue go away is to say that Paul Ryan has already done the heavy lifting on entitlement reform, and he supports the Ryan plan. Yet all we get from Perry is incoherent stammering. No thanks.

206 Stop making sense. It's confusing me.

207 Perry is now hammering Romney. Too bad was not this effective last night.

208 People need to calm down-they really do. Perry is NOT a lawyer or a lawmaker, I repeat-NOT a lawyer and not a lawmaker. Lawyers and lawmakers like Gingrich,Santorum,Paul,and Bachmann spend hundreds if not thousands of hours debating. Bachmann was a lawyer who debated also in the courtroom as a prosecutor so yeah she can debate well,it's just the stuff that comes out of her mouth is bullshit. Romney is a perennial candidate but let's look at his win/loss ratio here-what is it 1 out of 5 or a twenty percent ratio at winning,regardless of how many debates he has cut his teeth on and practiced-AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN- and yet,he performs well in debates,but nobody either a.)believes him,b.) likes him, or c.)both.
Perry has NEVER been a strong debater, I have not seen one where he did a decent job(my husband is from Tex and votes absentee there still) in a debate and yet he has never lost an election. That is a 100/0 percent win/ loss ratio. It boils down to this-you can wear the right clothes,you can cultivate the right tone of voice, the right address,the right friends,the right backers as a politician,but when you open your mouth,if people don't trust you or worse,know you are flat out lying-it all doesn't matter. Everyone knows that when Perry says something-he means it and it is the truth. Can't say the same for anyone else on that stage except maybe Cain. So no, Perry is not good at debating, but really,really good at winning,a hell of a governor,all for state's rights(hence his stance on immigration there). I have heard him utter it at least fifty times-"what works in Tx will not work in every state nor should it"-FEDERAL amnesty he opposes,FEDERAL aide to illegals he opposes, now if the states choose to do it that is a different story. Mitt changes his mind every two seconds. I'll take a man who might stutter because he is NOT a lawyer or professional debater by trade over someone like a Romney who talks a good game but misleads,switches teams often, and never wins no matter how slick he is perceived to be.

209 It's clear that if Newt did a one on one debate with any other candidate, and even the unicorn mounted rainbow rider himself, he'd make all of them his girlfriend.  Just sayin'.

210

"Current wife Calista tragically resembles a sea gull." 

There's a video out of her pecking at a car windshield to get at some french fries ion the dash. Funny as hell.

211 Been thinking this same thing for the last few debates. I don't fault Perry for his unpolished performances...but I seriously do not like his immigrations positions.

212 I was against the repeal of DADT, but if this guy is serving, he has ever right to ask what ever he wants without being booed.

Nevergiveup, that was my initial reaction too, but upon further reflection, the guy was in uniform, and he actually doesn't have the right to participate in a political debate. 

213

It's really, really hard for me to get behind a guy who thought that was a good decision.

But he's a good debater.  That's what counts.

214 He is a master debater.

215 Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man: "...but the language he used to convey it. We know Perry says what he means."

But on the state tuition issue, for example, that's a real problem. He called me "heartless" for disagreeing with his policy. That's a bullshit answer with such a cheap, emotional appeal... and ad hominem to boot. He sorta revealed a tactic I've seen already with McCain and Grahamnesty. Sure, it's not the "bigot" slander, but it's of the same strain.

So good for his honesty (I guess it's honesty and not smearing for effect) but awful on his platform.

216 You make good points Ace, but when it starts looking like Romney might take the lead I get all panicy. I understand in the general it's gonna be Anyone But Obama, but right now it's Anyone But Romney (Except Paul) And Huntsman. Anyone But Paul & Huntsman. And Johnson. Okay. Anyone but Paul & Huntsman & Johnson. Maybe I should come back in and start over.

217 Perry pretty much ended his candidacy by doing his best Lindsey Graham on why conservatives are heartless bigots. Newt? Nope Are we allowed to mention the other "P____" candidate who could jump in and lead us to VICTORY IN 2012? Hint: A she. From the largest of the 57 states.

218 Perry pretty much ended his candidacy by doing his best Lindsey Graham on why conservatives are heartless bigots. Is it really any worse than Romney and Bachmann mouthing DNC talking points talking about social security?

219 Yeah it's that bad. I don't need another Amnesty proponent sneering down his nose at those of us who want immigration laws enforced. I'd vote for Perry over Obama of course.

220 The writhing and twisting of justification in this piece is mind-boggling Ace.

Just because people "forget" from one transgression to the next, that does not mean the transgression didn't happen. You have got to look at these candidates in sum total, not just at their last public utterance. You've got to hold the deeds and words of these candidates up to your set of principles. I would suggest a good set of guiding principles are found in the constitution.

Gingrich. And Perry. And Romney... in fact, everyone on the stage besides Bachmann, Paul, Johnson, and perhaps Cain - have records of egregious transgressions against constitutional conservative principles.

Bachmann is going down in flames.

Paul holds views on international relations and foreign policy that the party will never embrace.

Johnson is a non-factor.

Cain is appealing, but has made some very questionable statements that bring his understanding of the constitution into question.

There is Nobody. I repeat, Nobody - in this race right now worthy of getting excited for, and behind whom a conservative can throw full support with a clean conscience.

We are about to be "McCained" again.

221 I was one of those saying nice things about Newt last night, talking about his understanding of the media and forgiving him for his wandering penis. I'm not supporting him though. The Ryan Medicare remark is not just a stupid statement soon forgotten. I realize that anyone running for President has to have an ego the size of Chris Christie's balls, but we are at a cross-roads, a time to put country before personal ambition. The "right wing social engineering" comment demonstrates to me that for Newt this is all about Newt.

222 "We are about to be "McCained" again." That's ludicrous. Romey is far to the right of McCain. Do people not understand how one most compromise one's principles to win office in the NE? And do people not understand RomneyCare? Is an individual mandate all that bad when we have laws on the books that force hospitals to treat the uninsured? It's not the individual mandate that is the problem with Obama care, it's that it essentially outlaws the concept of catastrophic insurance and forces everyone not to buy just insurance, but to buy a gold-plated policy that is not insurance at all, but simply some subsidized policy that has no relationship to the risk characteristics of the individual. All the third party payment problems associated with our current system will be magnified under ObamaCare, but it is not because of the individual mandate, it is because it makes health insurance not health insurance at all. What's important this election is whether we have someone who will sign the Ryan Plan, and sign the repeal of ObamaCare, and I think Romney would do both. If not, then screw him. Nothing else really matters.

223 We're going into what promises to be the dirtiest, most negative campaign since Thomas Jefferson. A serial adulterer with multiple divorces is NOT Plan A... But if Perry doesn't get his shit together on ILLEGAL immigration, he. will. lose.

224 " Romey is far to the right of McCain"...

Really? Romney's LIES place him to the right of McCain. The real Mitt Romney is a big government Republican.

Romney is who the establishment is desperately trying to foist upon the conservative electorate right now. As always, the machine spits out the one whose turn is "next", and the machine has determined that Romney is "next".

I'm sorry, but "anyone but Obama" got us Obama in the first place. Not this time. We need someone whose positions are clear and unequivocal, not someone who twists and turns to try to make things he's said and done in the past seem more palatable to those willing to turn a blind eye.

225 I'm sorry, I'm just not going to vote for yet another Big Gubmint Rep. I just won't. Fool me once...

I would, however, vote for a big glob of that stuff that sticks to your shoe when walking past a ghey bar in San Fran rather than P.W. Jugears.

226 I have a feeling that Sarah is still waiting to see who gets the repub nod. Rhino ?she is gonna run 3rd party. Am  I  nuts??

227

How pathetic the Tea Party is...the media is right...we are racists and ignorant bigots.  To attack Perry on the in-state tuition thing is beyond moronic and makes us look like what the media says we are.  In 1982 the Supreme Court ruled in Plyler V. Doe, that children of illegals must receive a public school education.  The decision was based on not wanting to punish the children of illegals AND "create an underclass of society."

Perry is not a dictator.  The in-state tuition legislation was passed 100% by a bi-partisan Texas Legislature.  It was the WILL OF THE PEOPLE OF TEXAS so he signed it into law.  Big frigging DEAL.  How can all of the Perry bashing idiots call themselves "Christians" when they don't understand the rational for this?  He has already SAID that he would NEVER pass ANY Federal Laws like Amnesty or the Dream Act because what works for Texas wouldn't work for every state.

I am appalled and disgusted, and I give up being in the Tea Party for good.  The media is correct...The ignorance and refusal to listen to fact, logic or reason is going to take out the BEST candidate we have.  Congrats imbeciles...you're all going to get a repeat of 2008 when you had a choice between Obama and RINO McLame.  Get used to it...you will either be saying President Romney or President Obama. Not much difference between them, so I am not going to vote.  Frigging disgusting.  America, yet again, destroyed by the ignorance of our voters.

228 PS.  Texas is my state and I prayed and prayed Perry would get in the race.  As Michael Reagan said..."Perry is the most 'Reaganesque' of all the candidates."  He has been my Governor for 10 years, and it's the most successful state in the country and Perry DID create 50% of the jobs in America during Obama's Depression.  Of course, why vote for someone who could get America back on track?  That would be intelligent, so we can't do that.  Let's be racists and bigots and let Romney win.  REALLY SMART.

229 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

230

189 toby928™,

He is definitely not comfortable being attacked from the right, but he has not been able to attack, nor articulate his positions and views against those to the left in the primaries either.  His responses have been incoherent in many cases.  Look, the guy has won election after election, and that's nothing to sneeze at.  But I worry about him debating Obama, which is where the independents will be more attuned to what's going on, and I don't see him performing well in those debates. 

231 Sean vannity is pullin Perrys fat out the fire right now.

232

Bettysuela,

I have nothing but contempt for your post.  If you think calling me a bigot and racist is okay because I disagree with a policy decision that was made, then you are the one with the problem, not me.  Being Christian or not being Christian has nothing to do with it.  It has nothing to do with elementary nor secondary education.  No one is clamoring for children of illegals to be thrown out of kindergarten.  I don't care if every single TX legislator voted for the TX Dream Act.  100 people doing something foolish is still doing something foolish.  No one said these kids can't attend college.  They simply should not benefit by their illegality.  And if the system worked as it should, then none of these potential college graduates should be able to even get a job here, since they are illegal.  If we are trying to solve the immigration problem, you don't further exacerbate it by providing government services/benefits, other than the basic humanitarian benefit of medical care when necessary.

Now, obviously, you and I disagree on this.  But notice that I'm not calling you names, making derogatory statements about you, etc.  I certainly could based on your post, but frankly, I think your comment says everything about you that needs to be said and nothing I could say would improve upon the impression you've left us with.

 

233 Has Newt changed his tune on AGW?

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 23, 2011 12:29 PM (u83UF)

Has anyone asked him since he's been in the race? I don't know. If he wanted to walk his AGW stance back, there would be no better than now time to do it. There has been enough damning scientific evidence and proof of scientific malfeasance on the AGW side that walking it back would be a piece of cake: "In 2008, I took the IPCC at their word that their research had lead to evidence that man made CO2 emissions were a leading cause of possibly catastrophic global warming. Since then, there has been evidence of climate researchers cooking their books to confirm politically expedient outcomes, as well as new evidence suggesting that cosmic rays play a far larger role in the earth's temperature than any human activity. Based on this new set of realities, I have changed my position on Anthropogenic Global Warming." Easy-peasy.

234 The only "look" I need on Newt is of him and Nancy Pelosi on a park bench.

235 So, feeling let down by Perry last night I made my peace with the idea that Romney was going to get the nomination.  I went and actually read his campaign materials.

FWIW, he says Obamacare needs to be repealed and I don't believe that he isn't going to do it.  Say what you will about him but he genuinely wants to rescue the American economy and thinks repealing Obamacare is a crucial piece of the puzzle.

My problem with him is that if Democrats regain the house in 2012 or 2014, except the same weak kind of appeasement as Massachusetts (in other words he isn't going to fight for conservative policy that hard.)

But going with him may be worth the risk if we do not lose the House in 2012.  We could get two good years - tax reform, Obamacare repeal and most importantly no commie judges.  So let's not go overboard - it ain't that bad.

236 I like Newt. I don't think he can win a general election as the GOP nominee given his personal baggage, but he'd make a great VP pick. Mitt-Newt or Christie-Newt would beat Obama-Biden by about 100 IQ points.

237

So what policies did Newt enact that is causing people to discount him?  I statement? Seriously. 

I was on the Perry train, but allowing illegals to be elligible for in state tuition is a no go for me.  Especially when you throw out the liberal mantra of being heartless or even racist ("...just because of the sound of their last name...").

That is the issue to me and Perry is a horrible debater.  I like that Newt actually understands policy and can articulate an argument effectively.  He is the most knowledgeable on the issues than anyone else on that stage.

I want to see the SCOAMF ripped to pieces in the debate.  I only see two guys that can do it, Newt and Christie....and Christie isn't running.

238

I'm surprised that Pro life voters even consider Romney at all considering he changed his views before the primaries last time around.  I can't stand listening to the guy, because I know he's full of sh@t.

239 @arhooley, thanks for mentioning my site and the article on Sempra subsidies. For the record, $12 million of Sempra's $55 million subsidy package was from state and local governments in Nevada. Governor Sandoval was there for the ribbon cutting as a result.

Subsidies are one issue that does not cut neatly between right and left. Democratic and Republican governors have both used them heavily to attract investment, and liberal and conservative groups both attack them at the federal and state level. I can't think of any other issue that has put John Kasich and Ralph Nader on the same stage. I try to explain this phenomenon in my book, Competing for Capital: Europe and North America in a Global Era.

240 come on guys, don't I get any credit for swiftly moving this along? flash games العاب Dubizzle وظائف خالية اعلانات مبوبة وظائف