1 lol......we didn't know...it's not our fault....it's BUSH'S FAULT!

2 SNAFU

3

the only thing transparent about this administration is that they are stupid....................really stupid...

4 Obama's Operation: SNAFU

5 Wow so not only do the rebels have tanks, but they obviously must have flying tanks!

6 the only thing transparent about this administration is that they are stupid....................really stupid...

And they're the worst kind of stupid, wherein they think they're smarter than everyone else.

7 Come on already...cut me some slack. These guys can barely drive their pickup rucks in reverse to avoid Libyan troops. Who the hell would ever think they could drive a tank?

8 NATO has bullets?

9 Divide it into three parts! That's my answer for everything!

10

taylork.....

 

the arrogant stupid..........

11 >>>..."blamed the deadly incident on a lack of communication from the rebels." the rebels. the rebels. the rebels. Who are these 'rebels?' Nobody knows... the Shadow knows...

12 ...i hope this doesn't ruin his vacation.............

13 Definition of Clusterfuck: See NATO Kinetic action in Lybia

14 "I'm not apologizing," Harding told reporters in Naples, Italy.

What? What? Death to the infidels!

15 Okay, here's a question.  In the lead-up (such as it was) to this illegal military action, we were basically spoon-fed reports that indicated the only thing stopping the rebels from winning was that they hadn't found the secret plans to the Death Star... wait- no that's not it.  That they didn't have air support (sold as a No-Fly Zone).

Then we give them the Close Air Support.  They're still not winning.  I've seen it mentioned that they seem to do most of their firing into the air, and that as soon as Kadhaffi forces show up, they turn tail and run.

Now, did these proclivities simply hide themselves with the rest of the world made up its mind whether or not to help, or was this media malfeasance?

I ask because several pundit types (IIRC even Ace, but I could be mis-remembering there) were basically on the side of military action as long as a limited scope was all that was necessary to topple Kadhaffi.  It looks, now, like that was incorrect.  So, was that incorrect because that information wasn't available, or was it incorrect because that information was maliciously hidden?

Did the MBM lie us into an unjustified, illegal, undeclared war?

16 Well, at least we can afford to put troops into Libya now, what with the NOT PAYING THEM and all.

17 In Egypt, it's "The Military." In Libya, the good guys are The Rebels.

18 I'm still trying to figure out how they have the technology for flying tanks and we don't . That gives them a big advantage as we enforce the UN authorized No-Fly Zone. What?

19 Who knew all those brown people look alike?

20 Not really disagreeing, but, frankly, we should never have had a thing to do with Libya. It's not our problem.

It will not be nice, no matter how it ends.

21 And how often have the Liberals moaned that the Reagan Administration armed what became Al Qaeda?  Despite the fact it was a Democrat Congressman (Charlie Wilson) that did it?  And now we want to arm the Muslim Brotherhood who are a part of the TNC???

22 The rebels claim they had previously notified Libya of the armor movement. And don't we have all these intel assets on the ground 'vetting' the plucky rebels? Nobody saw a freaking T-72? Are we not sharing intel with NATO? No, what's happening here is Obama has succeeded in revitalizing good old European imperialism. The EU has decided Ghadaffi is going to be the man selling the oil again soon and they're trying to get back in on his good side.

23 If my kid is ordered onto Libyan soil, I'll make the Honey Badger look like a drunken sloth after a five day bender. And greetings from the hell that is a long layover in Charlotte, NC airport.

24 We need to get uniforms to these rebels.  If they were wearing uniforms that NATO recognized they'd still be alive.  Maybe.  I'm thinking something with a sash.  Maybe a hat of some sort?  It could be worn at a jaunty angle.

25 "Did the MBM lie us into an unjustified, illegal, undeclared war AGAIN?" Fixed that for you. Welcome to 1967, kiddies.

26 Damn Ace , you need to watch more P.B.S.( just kidden ) they reported that the rebels swiped a few tanks a month ago ....Or maybe NATO needs to watch , since they are running things....

27 What? What's that? They have boats too? Are you serious? Where the hell did they get boats? Good Lord! Hey Fellas...Fellas, tell those subs to stand down will ya?

28 >>> The EU has decided Ghadaffi is going to be the man selling the oil again soon and they're trying to get back in on his good side. Sounds plausible. Yeah, that defacto govt you guys set up? Yeah, fuckoff, 'k? Thanks.

29

 

What kind of moron thinks its a good idea to hop into a tank with NATO aircraft prowling the skies looking for targets? This proves to me the rebels are too stupid to win

30 Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 08, 2011 02:43 PM (Wvu39)

Do they at least have a good BBQ place?

31

I ask because several pundit types (IIRC even Ace, but I could be mis-remembering there) were basically on the side of military action as long as a limited scope was all that was necessary to topple Kadhaffi.  It looks, now, like that was incorrect.  So, was that incorrect because that information wasn't available, or was it incorrect because that information was maliciously hidden?

Did the MBM lie us into an unjustified, illegal, undeclared war?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at April 08, 2011 02:41 PM (8y9MW)

They might have exaggerated.  They had their hard-ons about Tunisia and Egypt, and thought Libya would be another case just like that, but now Obama can show how tough he is.

And ace was in favor of limited air support action.  You know 2 weeks before it actually started when it looked like the rebels had the upper hand and might oust Kaddafi.  I think he was in agreement with the other co-bloggers that when it started it was way too late.

32 So if I understand this correctly our CIC wants to send our boys to Libya to be bombed by NATO pilots and they won't be paid to do this?

33 So, what's he got against map makers?

Sounds like NEW JOBS to me.

34 Just think about how much money Rand-McNally will make producing new globes and Atlases!  Winning!

35 This is gonna sound crazy but...maybe, just maybe, Gen Harding and his subordinates are craftily on-purposely accidentally trying to ding BOTH sides of this fight. Why? Because if I was Gen Harding that's exactly what I'd be doing. Fuck Obama. And fuck the Rebels who are muslim Al Qaeda wannabes.

36 Kloppenburg has hired Franken's recount attorney.  Let the ballot finding begin!

37 >>"I'm not apologizing," Harding told reporters in Naples, Italy. So let me see if I got this right. We went into Libya to prevent Qaddafi from bombing his people and now we are bombing his people and an "Opps, my bad" is out of the question? Yea, top men on this project. Top men.

38 Well, this should solve the problem.  Nothing could possible go wrong.

AJDABIYAH, Libya, April 8 (Reuters) - Libyan rebels painted the roofs of their vehicles bright pink on Friday to avoid more friendly fire casualties after a NATO air strike they said killed five fighters.

39 Guess what?

40 >>> Now, did these proclivities simply hide themselves with the rest of the world made up its mind whether or not to help, or was this media malfeasance? >>>I ask because several pundit types (IIRC even Ace, but I could be mis-remembering there) were basically on the side of military action as long as a limited scope was all that was necessary to topple Kadhaffi. It looks, now, like that was incorrect. So, was that incorrect because that information wasn't available, or was it incorrect because that information was maliciously hidden? I don't know if it was the media, exactly. Initially, if you remember, the rebels were taking one town after another, and got as far as Sitra, which I think is Qadaffy's hometown and just outside of Tripoli. (Or not just outside, but close-ish.) Anyway, it seemed like a bum's rush. Qadaffy was caught by surprise and could not rally his own forces. But then he got more active and started trucking in mercenaries. That turned the war. In the first two weeks it was all rebels, and when Qadaffy started turning them back, it seemed to me that the big problem was the jets and tanks and artillery, and that the rebels, having "won" previously all those cities, should be able to handle things on the infantry side. But that was deceptive. they were winning because no one was fighting back yet.

41 The airforce did this! Just to make an admiral look bad!

42 "We didn't know they had tanks."

Key word in that sentence,  kids?

Had.

43 It was a trap?

44 Hey, don't worry Obie - I'm working on the McGuffin!

45 In other words, this is still a two-player game of RISK and we're the "allies."

46 They might have exaggerated.  They had their hard-ons about Tunisia and Egypt, and thought Libya would be another case just like that, but now Obama can show how tough he is.

Yes, my point isn't that they were all hyped-up super excited.  I kind of get that.  I kind of was, too.  I'm specifically talking about the rebels' lack of coordination, lack of fire discipline, and other such strategic nightmares.  These are things that should have been seen even in the earliest days of the uprising.  So were they just missed, or were they concealed?

And thanks for clarification on Ace's position.  Though, really, that time was part of the "build up" to which I was referring.

47 War on War

48  38 Well, this should solve the problem.  Nothing could possible go wrong.

AJDABIYAH, Libya, April 8 (Reuters) - Libyan rebels painted the roofs of their vehicles bright pink on Friday to avoid more friendly fire casualties after a NATO air strike they said killed five fighters.

Posted by: RWC

"We didn't know they had pink paint."

49 41 The airforce did this! Just to make an admiral look bad! Posted by: shorter: sven at April 08, 2011 02:49 PM (W5ilH) I know you're snarking but just for the record I think it was the RAF or the French.

50 maybe, just maybe, Gen Harding and his subordinates are craftily on-purposely accidentally trying to ding BOTH sides of this fight.

Harding is Royal Navy. I think you are giving them way too much credit.

51 Off topic: US Army just paid it's forces a half a paycheck. Troups in Afghanistan are PISSED. This from my pilot son via Skype.

52 And I got my daily sock fail out of the way.

53

The airforce did this! Just to make an admiral look bad!

I wouldn't put it past 'em.

54

Off topic: US Army just paid it's forces a half a paycheck. Troups in Afghanistan are PISSED. This from my pilot son via Skype.

Confirmed by a buddy of mine at Walter Reed.

55 By The Way: I don't think there's any question that putting ground troops into a live war would require a Congressional resolution.

The Senate voted 90 to 10, this the other day, to reject such thinking as this.

56 I really couldn't care less, as long as Kdaffy gets deaded at some point soon.

We owe him that.

57

WAR ENSEMBLE

^{Infiltration push reserves
Encircle the front lines
Supreme art of strategy
Playing on the minds
Bombard till submission
Take all to their graves
Indication of triumph
The number that are dead}

58 WTF  - !!1eleventy11!


I saw rebels running a tank around in circles on TV weeks ago, and our glorious "intelligence"agencies didn't know they had tanks?

59 Off topic: US Army just paid it's forces a half a paycheck. Troups in Afghanistan are PISSED. This from my pilot son via Skype.

Not paid yet, but it is on the LES.  Just means they've officially announced that they're expecting the shutdown.  And knowing how DFAS works, I'd imagine the second half of that paycheck will be significantly delayed backpay.

60 Hey, don't worry Obie - I'm working on the McGuffin!
Posted by: George Lucas at April 08, 2011 02:50 PM

Hack!

61 Sidebar:  Between Scarlett wearing someone's ass on her chest and Lindsey looking like a rabid beaver, my brain is having a tough time processing the visuals.

62 I saw rebels running a tank around in circles on TV weeks ago, and our glorious "intelligence"agencies didn't know they had tanks?

Posted by: Chuckit at April 08, 2011 02:54 PM (e7OOq)

Unless they were firing the gun uselessly into the air it would be hard to tell them apart.

63

Not paid yet, but it is on the LES. 

Right, they'll get that half announced today next Friday (normal pay day) and then God knows when they'll see the rest of it.

64 But that was deceptive. they were winning because no one was fighting back yet.

Posted by: ace at April 08, 2011 02:48 PM (nj1bB)

ace ,the bill morrisey fellow is back up and running on last thread

65 I really don't care which side they bomb. I would be fine if they alternated day to day.

66 60 Hey, don't worry Obie - I'm working on the McGuffin!
Posted by: George Lucas at April 08, 2011 02:50 PM

Hack!

Posted by: zombie Alfred Hitchcock at April 08, 2011 02:54 PM (2pEj7)

Know what AH would say if he was alive today?

LET ME OUT OF THIS BOX!

67 I really don't care which side they bomb. I would be fine if they alternated day to day.

Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out.

68 OT: We have our first lawsuit over the shutdown. You'll never guess who. http://tinyurl.com/3fl7mo6 The real fun is who they are suing.

69

What is this absurd sentimentalist regard for world maps with countries that have constant borders? Do we care if Libya breaks up into West Libya and East Libya? Is learning a new contour on a map so difficult for us?

Almost seems like the plan.  Reminds me a lot of the Balkans.  Here we'll create two Islamic states with our blood and treasure.  Or of either side wins, one.  Looking for democrats (small d) in the Middle East is like looking for reform clerics.  You only know they exist when they are killed or tortured. 

70 Off topic: US Army just paid it's forces a half a paycheck. Troups in Afghanistan are PISSED. This from my pilot son via Skype.

And yet teh Feckless Wonder is going on a family vacation. A new fuckin' low, not even paying the troops their pay before the shutdown.

71

What a clusterfuck.

What are our options now that Obama has come out and said that Qaddafi must go?

We can eat crow and accept a cease fire along with a solemn (and useless) promise from Qaddafi to kill fewer civilians, leaving him in power.

Otherwise, we go all in and target Qaddafi and his family personally along with any military assets he has for the express purpose of regime change.  This would be difficult without boots on the ground.

Or we could just accept that the rebels don't have what it takes to win, so we declare "mission accomplished" and leave, having accomplished approximately nothing.

 

72 O/T  Guess who got arrested for soliciting ho's?

Buried in NY Times, wonder if MSNBC will run it. 

Obama's golfing partner looking to get teed up.

http://tinyurl.com/3jheh9j

73

Not paid yet, but it is on the LES.  Just means they've officially announced that they're expecting the shutdown.  And knowing how DFAS works, I'd imagine the second half of that paycheck will be significantly delayed backpay.

So that's why my husband got a database unavailable error earlier. I thought I was being paranoid to think it might be similar.

74 No blood for ego!

75 I saw rebels running a tank around in circles on TV weeks ago, and our glorious "intelligence"agencies didn't know they had tanks?

Posted by: Chuckit at April 08, 2011 02:54 PM (e7OOq)

That's right.  IIRC, it was CNN showing some rebels fixing some abandoned armor. 

76 74 No blood for ego!

Posted by: AoSHQ's worst commenter, DarkLord© at April 08, 2011 03:00 PM (GBXon)

Living up to your sock!

77

I am the only one who hears the Benny Hill theme song when reading news about this war kinetic action?

78 Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out.

Posted by: Bomber at April 08, 2011 02:58 PM (d88g9)

Yup, he's already in charge of virgin rationing.

79 half pay for the troops? unacceptable

80 Current CiC: If there's a fork in the road, I'll take it. Then I'll turn it into a knife and cut off any useful appendages just to be sure we lose.

Smart. Power.

81 So, is it possible that Obama is pulling a doube secret double cross on NATO, teaching them a lesson on how hard it is to do war when you have the bad guys hiding amongst civilians, etc. I mean, imagine during W's presidency, killing some brown people who were friendly and a US spokesman going out and saying "We are NOT going to apologize." I mean, where is Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink and all that?

82

@11: "Who are these 'rebels?' Nobody knows..."

Here's what we do know:  (1) that they were based on Dantooine, and later on Yavin's 4th moon; (2) their fighters can avoid our turbolasers; and (3) Bevel Lemelisk can't design an exhaust system for shit [has no bearing on the rebels directly, but merits mention, nevertheless].  Further, our intelligence services have learned that one of the rebel leaders is apparently banging her brother, so we can safely assume that they are perverts.

83

@15: "Did the MBM lie us into an unjustified, illegal, undeclared war?"

AHEM - Democrat president!  This is a holy crusade and all who even question it should be executed as traitors and counter-revolutionaries.

84 Congress?

Full pay.

85 half pay for the troops?

unacceptable

Not just the troops.  That House bill to fund DoD for the rest of the FY included O&M and Acquisitions.  Gotta pay for all the bombs and cruise missiles too.

86 Posted by: Zombie Grand Moff Tarkin at April 08, 2011 03:02 PM (xy9wk) Nerf herder!

87 82

@11: "Who are these 'rebels?' Nobody knows..."

Here's what we do know:  (1) that they were based on Dantooine, and later on Yavin's 4th moon; (2) their fighters can avoid our turbolasers; and (3) Bevel Lemelisk can't design an exhaust system for shit [has no bearing on the rebels directly, but merits mention, nevertheless].  Further, our intelligence services have learned that one of the rebel leaders is apparently banging her brother, so we can safely assume that they are perverts.

Posted by: Zombie Grand Moff Tarkin at April 08, 2011 03:02 PM (xy9wk)

And they have one of these feely-touchy religions. Based on the "farce"

88 this illegal military action,

Liberals moaned that the Reagan Administration armed what became Al Qaeda?  Despite the fact it was a Democrat Congressman (Charlie Wilson) that did it?

Let's not go right side moonbat here.  Illegal - no.  Over the invisible lines in the deliberately grey (and rightly so) area - yes.

We (Reagan, Charlie Wilson, his Texas girlfriend, Tip O'Neil and a small cast @CIA and ISI) mostly armed guys that became the Northern Alliance.  Although the 1 CIA guy does talk about thinking of waxing Gulbuddin Hekmatyar  sp? in his book.  He's the Iran backed contingent of assholes that throw grenades like a girl.

89 Off topic: US Army just paid it's forces a half a paycheck. Troups in Afghanistan are PISSED. This from my pilot son via Skype.

Posted by: Northwesterner at April 08, 2011 02:52 PM (/Ft4q)

Why would they get a 1/2 paycheck now?  Wouldn't it be the next paycheck they wouldn't get because of the shutdown?  Or are they apportioning out their pay so they get the other 1/2 when they would possibly get nothing next payday?

Can't get a hold of my son in Afghan, although he had a snarky message on FB this morning about it.

90

@23: "And greetings from the hell that is a long layover in Charlotte, NC airport."

The bar in the middle of the terminal is actually pretty good.  The USO club is excellent if you can get in there.  It's upstairs from the bar.

91 I tried to warn them.

92 86 Posted by: Zombie Grand Moff Tarkin at April 08, 2011 03:02 PM (xy9wk)

Nerf herder!

Posted by: joncelli at April 08, 2011 03:06 PM (RD7QR)

Thats - "Scruffy, nerf herder" - noob

93 #71
I agree with Ace here. Instead of providing material support early on when the rebels had the upper hand and momentum on their side, Obama waited until they started to lose before acting.   Too little, too late.

I'm not saying air support was the right idea. . .I think Obama's original plan of staying the hell out was probably correct.   But you can't fight a war kinetic military action half-assed.  Its either you want to win and you're all in, or you don't bother.

Without a SERIOUS military commitment of boots on the ground (which I think nobody really wants), the longer we stay the worse it will get.   Its certainly not clear to me exactly who the rebels are, or that they'll really be any better than Gadaffi.

I think its better for us to just say "mission accomplished" and get the hell out of there, and the sooner the better.

94

Tami, I think they're getting paid through April 8th, so that's about half of what the paycheck should be for Apr. 1-15.

Or something close to that...

95 91 I tried to warn them.

Posted by: admiral ackbar at April 08, 2011 03:07 PM (GTbGH)

This is not the time for tired internet memes - sir!

96 I heard on the radio this morning that they told the "rebels" to paint their vehicles with yellow on top so they wouldn't bomb them. Qdaffy forces immediately painted their stuff yellow. Wow, who woulda thought?

97 Further, our intelligence services have learned that one of the rebel leaders is apparently banging her brother, so we can safely assume that they are perverts.

Posted by: Zombie Grand Moff Tarkin at April 08, 2011 03:02 PM (xy9wk)

Also, one of the rebel Ewoks was detained for attempting to, in his words, "nut on" Colonel Althouse.

98 If we had been pounding Kdaffy's forces earlier, it would have been a lot harder for him to get mercenaries to sign on.

99 Posted by: Zombie Grand Moff Tarkin at April 08, 2011 03:02 PM (xy9wk)

Nerf herder!

Posted by: joncelli at April 08, 2011 03:06 PM (RD7QR)

Say what you will about Zombie Tarkin, but he sure knew what to do with a weapon of mass fucking destruction.  USE IT!  The dirty hippies on Alderaan got what they had coming.  You'll note that there were no Alderaanian warships or insurgents at the Battle of Endor.

100 96 I heard on the radio this morning that they told the "rebels" to paint their vehicles with yellow on top so they wouldn't bomb them. Qdaffy forces immediately painted their stuff yellow. Wow, who woulda thought?

Posted by: dagny at April 08, 2011 03:09 PM (hKbRi)

Oh man, we could have a lot of fun with this. Transmit a message they should dress up like the Village People or the Black-Eye Peas.

101 maybe this is gonna sound selfish of me but all I care about right now is cheaper gasoline. And I think the bestest and fastest way we can achieve lower gas prices is for Kaddafi to be safe and sound and in charge of Libya.

102 76 74 No blood for ego!

Posted by: AoSHQ's worst commenter, DarkLord© at April 08, 2011 03:00 PM (GBXon)

Living up to your sock!

Posted by: The Robot Devil at April 08, 2011 03:01 PM (LdYLm)

Thankew veddy much!  I gots a tradition to uphold, fer cryin' out loud...

Seriously, bumper stickers, tee shirts, and signs need to start appearing saying more or less that.  Stick it in their eye after the 'no blood for oil' bovine excrement we've had to put up with every time a just and proper cause arises...

103

If Obama has only taken the time to read the distinguished Admiral Ackbar's Thesis on wars like this, all of it could have been avoided.

104

Calling ALL cars, Calling ALL cars.

Johnny Dangerously Moammar Quadaffy spotted in a Baby Blue Tank with Bunnies and Chicks...is this right???...

105 If the Kaddfai regime is replaced with The Rebel regime, we'll be worse off. Just like we [and Israel] are now worse off with the new a-holes in Egypt.

106 shit. someone beat me to the ackbar reference. smart crowd here, you need to get your snark in early

107 And how often have the Liberals moaned that the Reagan Administration armed what became Al Qaeda?  Despite the fact it was a Democrat Congressman (Charlie Wilson) that did it?  And now we want to arm the Muslim Brotherhood who are a part of the TNC???

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at April 08, 2011 02:42 PM (u8zUk)

Actually, no.

The people we were supporting (Ahmad Shah Massoud for example) came to power after they overthrew the communist supported government. 

They were in turn thrown out of power by the Taliban, which was supported, and possibly created by the ISI. 

The remnants of Massoud's government became the Northern Alliance.

And in fact, a couple days before 9/11, bin Laden assassinated Massoud.

108 Damn, I have to refind the article, but the first article I read on this had the rebels complaining because NATO had told them to park the tanks and they though Quadafi had bombed them. But to have NATO tell them to park the tanks specifically and THEN bomb them while claiming not to know they had them?? Unreal.

109 By the way, anyone reading Yahoo! News or the (UK) Daily Telegraph website knew that the rebels were using all the captured equipment they could.  You would think that NATO would have given them a heads-up to adopt a certain colored marking or other device to indicate their possession and use of captured equipment, so that the NATO pilots could tell not to bomb the tanks with orange ribbons on them or some such.

110 And I think the bestest and fastest way we can achieve lower gas prices is for Kaddafi U.S. Marines to be safe and sound and in charge and Exxon to be in charge of Libya's oil.

Posted by: Big Ideas Soothsayer at April 08, 2011 03:12 PM (uFokq)

I like this version better:

 

111 Totally agree with Ace on this one, although trying for a decapitation strike or two is fine with me. But we can get along fine with West Libya and East Libya. Smaller countries are easier to dominate anyway.

Of course the real countries I'd like to see get split up are China and India since those are the only two long term rivals for superpower. I won't be surprised at all if India splits up into several smaller countries. But China's thousand years long Han-ification project has worked well, so a break-up of China seems pretty unlikely.

112 Say what you will about Zombie Tarkin, but he sure knew what to do with a weapon of mass fucking destruction. USE IT! The dirty hippies on Alderaan got what they had coming. You'll note that there were no Alderaanian warships or insurgents at the Battle of Endor. Posted by: Reactionary at April 08, 2011 03:10 PM (xUM1Q) Yeah, I first suspected I was a conservative when, the first time I saw the scene in which Princess Leia tells Moff Tarkin that Alderaan is a peaceful planet with no military I thought "Well shit, no sympathy for you!"

113 Boots on the ground? If the Gov shuts down we will not even be able to afford socks on the ground

114

I donated to AofSHQ and now I wake up with a raging SnarkOn each and every morning!

Thanks Ace!

115 Count, I do not want to occupy Libya. No way, no how.

116 Transmit a message they should dress up like the Village People

I'm choking to death trying to stifle my guffaws.

117 115
Count, I do not want to occupy Libya.

No way, no how.

Posted by: Big Ideas Soothsayer at April 08, 2011 03:17 PM (uFokq)

I do however want to occupy Spain. For the ladies!

118 I'm choking to death trying to stifle my guffaws.

Posted by: toby928™ at April 08, 2011 03:18 PM (GTbGH)

Envision Abe Vigoda dead.

119 NATO Commander: "We didn't know they had heads."

Reporters: (Laughing)

120 Count, I do not want to occupy Libya.

No way, no how.

How about just razing the cities and salting the earth they stand on?  I'm told it's traditional dealing with punk regimes in those parts...

121

NATO REBEL IDENTITY CHECK LIST:

1. No uniform

2. No ammo, or in the process of having no ammo via shooting at Allah.

3. No ranks.

4. No dicipline.

5. No direction.

6. No balls

7. No clue.

If the Arab in question conforms to these 7 critical characteristics, don't shoot him (unless you can spare the ammo).

122  

Envision Abe Vigoda dead.

Posted by: Tami

It'll never happen.

123 The senior leadership for the brigade had their DADT brief yesterday.  One thing that struck me:  When ever someone raised the possibility of gay soldiers demanding benefits for their 'spouses', DOMA was cited as the reason that we would deny those benefits.  However, our Commander in Chief has declared that DOMA is unconstitutional.  Therefor, we either have to enforce a law that we have been told by a superior is unconstitutional, or we obey a the orders of the Commander in Chief and violate the law.

Maybe I'm slow that I'm just getting this now...

124 The US Military does not have any contingency plans to fight a conflict with a CinC like Obama. That could be the reason everything is all mucked up more so then Obama's pure incompetence.!!!

125 Of course. I have no problem with leveling Libya, save the oil fields. But that ain't happening. Regime change ---> troop casualties --->Occupation ----> nation building ---->waste of our treasure.

126 Tanks a lot

127 Can somebody flush the commode? It's starting to stink in here.

128

I have a question. Could Obama have fucked up this country anymore than it already is?

1. 9% unemployment

2. 3 wars

4. $112 oil

5. government shutdown

6. $14 Trillion debt

7. $1.65 Trillion deficit

8. Weak dollar and getting weaker

9. Inflation going back up

10. Weakest recovery since the depression.

This is the most incompetent fucker I have ever seen.

129 They should have thought about trading in those tanks.

130 @

131 Repeat to thyself: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

132 Yeah, I first suspected I was a conservative when, the first time I saw the scene in which Princess Leia tells Moff Tarkin that Alderaan is a peaceful planet with no military I thought "Well shit, no sympathy for you!"

Posted by: joncelli at April 08, 2011 03:16 PM (RD7QR)

Yup.  That's what happens when you trust a massive central government to be the sole carrier of arms...

That aside, we in the West have superweapons of power unimaginable in past ages.  In the old days we'd have been using them.  Give the ancient crusaders neutron bombs, hydrogen bombs, nerve gas, bio-weapons, etc, and they'd not have set idle for long.  The M.E. would be in good order by now.  Our refusal to use our devestating power to annihilate those who attack us or threaten our way of life is a sign of unforgiveable weakness.

We'll suffer greatly for it in the end.

 

 

133

Well, that's the kind of performance you get when you cut someone's pay, eliminate weapons upgrades, and outsource your wars to Belgium.  It's the equivalent of lead paint in the drywall. 

134 the war in libya is why barry's gonna be the one to blink on the budget....

the hardcore hippies will NOT have his back if he is brazen enough to send unpaid troops into war without Congressional ok....

Mama moonbat will have kittens

135

Envision Abe Vigoda dead.

Posted by: Tami

>>It'll never happen.

Well, not this year...

136 Well said Reactonary.  We were provoked after 9/11 into fighting man for man, instead of advanced civilization to inferior civilization.

137 He is a hard core lefty. Always was, always will be. That man even had the US Flag not put back on AF1 when they did repainting on the rear.  The leftiest always hated the military.  So getting troops on the ground maybe good in his mind.  More dead troops to him is good!

138 Well, first, I want you to juggle my balls in one hand, and play with my cock with the other. Then I want to pinky you while I stick my cock in your fuckin' friend's cunt, then fuckin spank it into a Dixie cup. After that, I want to smell your titties for a while, and you can pull my nutsack up over my dick so it looks like a bullfrog. . Then, we throw the Dixie cup out.

139 As I understand it, Obama is trying to pay for the Libya adventure with the DoD's budget-funds. This is unrealistic. So, sooner rather than later Obama will have to go to Congress and request a Supplemental to fund his futile exercise in Libya.

140 However, our Commander in Chief has declared that DOMA is unconstitutional. Therefor, we either have to enforce a law that we have been told by a superior is unconstitutional, or we obey a the orders of the Commander in Chief and violate the law. Maybe I'm slow that I'm just getting this now... Posted by: Alex at April 08, 2011 03:19 PM (kwNeL) Yeah that was brought up in our Command DADT also. BUT DOMA is still the law of the land and Obama did not declare it unconstitutional, but his Justice Department said it would no longer defend it. Big difference. HOWEVER I do see this being a big problem in the future. That is the door that the repeal of DADT and the possible/probable end of DOMA will open. And I still think there are going to be ramifications of the repeal of DADT that we still have not thought of.

141 We were provoked after 9/11 into fighting man for man, instead of advanced civilization to inferior civilization.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at April 08, 2011 03:25 PM (DPM1U)

Exactly.  And the word "inferior" is a perfect choice.  Their beliefs, their way of life, ARE grossly, shockingly, and unquestionably inferior.  Debased.  Depraved.  Unworthy to continue to exist. 

 

142 138 He is a hard core lefty. Always was, always will be. That man even had the US Flag not put back on AF1 when they did repainting on the rear.  The leftiest always hated the military.  So getting troops on the ground maybe good in his mind.  More dead troops to him is good!

Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at April 08, 2011 03:25 PM (V+/pV)

I think you have Obama all wrong. If you looked inside him. I mean into his heart and brain. You'd probably find a wicked alien parasite from the star system Wolf-359. Controlling all his thoughts and deeds. Remove that parasite and all you'd have left is a effete metrosexual.

143

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Phasellus et ante tortor, ac aliquet nunc. Duis et eros sit amet enim venenatis aliquet sit amet ut odio. Etiam facilisis dictum iaculis. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Etiam lacinia lobortis fringilla. Pellentesque faucibus cursus tincidunt. Suspendisse potenti. Nunc dictum, enim a tempor ornare, magna dui porta nulla, id semper ante lorem id urna. Fusce mollis viverra convallis. Maecenas quis erat eu ante euismod aliquet. Integer faucibus diam ac erat pretium suscipit. Integer eget mi sodales libero imperdiet tincidunt vitae in nisl. Cras eget imperdiet ante. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora.

144

If we had a CIC worth a damn, he would've said, "If we even think there's AQ or MB in there with the rebels, the deal's off."

145 Since the Chosen One is going down to golf in Williamsburg I guess they need the airforce.  Since the demorats are not passing the budget the airmen are not getting paid.  Ergo, they should not show up for work!!!

146

Posted by: Big Ideas Soothsayer at April 08, 2011 03:17 PM (uFokq)

According to my Meyers-Briggs personality profile, my positive solutions to conflicts are likely to be realistic, logical, practical and pragmatic, feasible, well-organized, and above all, results focused. 

However, I probably will not affirm someone else's (Libyan) feelings and emotions and may unilaterally decide upon a solution and run the risk of alienating other (Dems).  Also, I have a tendency to direct and give orders to fix a problem rather than listen (to nattering nabobs of negativism).

Sorry, guess I misunderstood "bestest and fastest" way to reduce oil prices.

Just having fun here  

147 Just tell Obama that the British created Libya's borders. No idea if it's true (though it probably is)...either way he'll believe it and it will piss him off.

148 [As I wrote before I had counted on Obama's feckless (if inconstant) pacifism to keep him from making the same mistake as LBJ and deciding his ego was on the line and so better men than him should die to prove how "tough" he is.] Haha. Why would you think this? Obama is all about his ego and being the "smartest guy in the room".

149

Haha. Why would you think this? Obama is all about his ego and being the "smartest guy in the room".

Well, that explains Biden.

150 ok wait. i didnt read upthread cuz ive been out in the barn all day but i saw ON THE NEWS the rebels had captured tanks and were trying to repair them so they could use them WEEKS AGO. So i guess its true this admin doesnt watch FOX news.

but REALLY! my friend was right. NOBODY involved could be trusted to sit the right way on a toilet or make them a sammitch safely. INCLUDING  the leadership. My stomach is officially in knots again. WTF are they doing?

151 143 Robotdevil  

I think you have Obama all wrong. If you looked inside him. I mean into his heart and brain. You'd probably find a wicked alien parasite from the star system Wolf-359. Controlling all his thoughts and deeds. Remove that parasite and all you'd have left is a effete metrosexual.

Nope.  You got that wrong. Remember The Thing!  That allien had BALLS.  Which would put The Obama out of that scenerio.

152 Here are some good countries to break-up, ranked by the projected 2050 population:

1. India (1.7Billion in 2050, 1.2B today. only 350M in 1950)
2. China (1.4B in 2050, 1.4B today, 550M in 1950)
3. US will be 3rd in 2050 w/ 420M
4. Indonesia (300M in 2050, 240M today, 80M in 1950)
5. Pakistan (300M in 2050, 170M today, 40M in 1950
6. Nigeria (280M in 2050, 150M today, 30M in 1950)

Nigeria will break up. No way the Muslim North and Christian South stay together. Pakistan could easily fracture into tribes. So could Indonesia. India is more an empire than a country, with huge divisions of race, tribe, language and religion. The US faces a non-trivial risk from Mexican separatists in the southwest, but it seems manageable. Hawaiian separatists probably have a better chance. That said, I think there's a decent chance America adds states, if not territories - especially if Canada ever dissolves. We could add Alberta and British Columbia easily - one red state, one blue state.

The population explosion among sub-saharan African, middle-easterners, and south asians is still on-going and will change the balance of power in the world.

153 Clean up on 139 please

154 Posted by: Museisluse at April 08, 2011 03:35 PM (xrmna)

I think you mean 138.

155 If you're complaining about the number of bombs falling on you, and you're driving around in a tank, maybe you should trade it in for something a bit more inconspicuous, like a Volt.

156 DOMA is still the law of the land and Obama did not declare it unconstitutional, but his Justice Department said it would no longer defend it. Big difference.

Actually, the Justice Department letter makes it clear that Obama ordered the decision.

After careful consideration, including review of a recommendation from me, the President of the United States has made the determination that Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act ("DOMA"), 1 U.S.C. § 7, as applied to same-sex couples who are legally married under state law, violates the equal protection component of the Fifth Amendment. Pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 530D, I am writing to advise you of the Executive Branch's determination and to inform you of the steps the Department will take in two pending DOMA cases to implement that determination.

157 Oops, I meant 138 for clean up

158 Clean up on 139 please

Posted by: Museisluse at April 08, 2011 03:35 PM (xrmna)

154 Posted by: Museisluse at April 08, 2011 03:35 PM (xrmna)

I think you mean 138.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at April 08, 2011 03:37 PM (8y9MW)

It was 139.  Someone deleted 125 and moved the numbering.

159 Posted by: Alex at April 08, 2011 03:38 PM (kwNeL) Yes I have no doubt obama ordered the Justice department to say and not to defend DOMA any longer, but that does make DOMA null and void. I do agree with obama in the White House, that is were we are headed with all it's ramifications. All I was saying is the DOMA is still the law

160 Should've painted them blue.

161 Seriously, the rebels complaining about getting hit by 'friendly fire' Obombing...you'd think they would thank him...

162 I dont want troops on the ground.  I also want troops back fom Iraq and the 'stan.  Fighting Al Q?  Why bother.  It would be easier to just not allow any mid-east looking person fly on an airline in the US.  That would save any america loving innocent patriot.   We only then have to worry about stuff like car bumbs and that stuff.  Then the leftest of NYC, Chi-town, LA, DC, will have to deal with the mess.

163 All I was saying is the DOMA is still the law

I don't buy that.  Congress could pass a law calling for the seizure of all private firearms, or to remove minority children from their homes, or outlawing private political assemblies.  Are you saying that the military would be bound to enforce them, even if it believed them to be unconstitutional or immoral?

164 If I was a Libian rebel I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about geting killed by my fellow incompetent in the tank than Col. Daffy. Those guys couldn't find their asses with both hands and a road map.

165 Are you saying that the military would be bound to enforce them, even if it believed them to be unconstitutional or immoral?

After 65 years of wars of questionable constitutionality?  I'm not sure that test even applies anymore...

166

Operation Oops Dawn.

Smart power by Steve Urkel 'Did I do thaaaaat?'

167 I don't buy that. Congress could pass a law calling for the seizure of all private firearms, or to remove minority children from their homes, or outlawing private political assemblies. Are you saying that the military would be bound to enforce them, even if it believed them to be unconstitutional or immoral? Posted by: Alex at April 08, 2011 03:49 PM (kwNeL) I don't follow your logic. DOMA is the law of the land as we speak, and as such, the Federal Gov. which includes the Military therefore does NOT recognize same sex marriage and the benefits that come from sam sex marriage. And as of today, those are the facts.

168

IMO, the good general was answering the question as if it were asking what it might take to get this straightened out.  Not that it would be a good idea.  "Consideration" means the planners are paying attention to contingency plans for the contingency.  That's their job.
My father had a fraternity brother who, in WW II, was on the planning staff for the invasion of Spain, should Franco throw in with Hitler or Hitler were to occupy Spain.  Just in case.

Tanks look like tanks from the air. Also from up close.  The issue is ground-air commo.  There was none.

169

Ace wrote:

As I wrote before I had counted on Obama's feckless (if inconstant) pacifism to keep him from making the same mistake as LBJ and deciding his ego was on the line and so better men than him should die to prove how "tough" he is.

I'm not sure of that anymore.

Obama is Jimmy Carter. He will send troops if his ego gets bruised, and use them in the worst possible way.

170 @138 "you can pull my nutsack up over my d**k so it looks like a bullfrog."

Okay, who even thinks about this? I have to admit, though, I laughed. It still needs to be cleaned up.

171 He will send troops if his ego gets bruised, and use them in the worst possible way.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 08, 2011 04:01 PM (z1N6a)

You comparing Libya to Vietnam, you dumb fuck?  Go jump start your tiny brain, asswipe.

172

I think you have Obama all wrong. If you looked inside him. I mean into his heart and brain. You'd probably find a wicked alien parasite from the star system Wolf-359. Controlling all his thoughts and deeds. Remove that parasite and all you'd have left is a effete metrosexual.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at April 08, 2011 03:28 PM (LdYLm)

I would actually prefer it if that were the case. An alien parasite is likely to be a lot more canny than the actual liberal brain we are stuck with.

173 He will send troops if his ego gets bruised, and use them in the worst possible way.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 08, 2011 04:01 PM (z1N6a)

You comparing Libya to Vietnam, you dumb fuck?  Go jump start your tiny brain, asswipe.

Posted by: Bill Morrissey at April 08, 2011 04:03 PM (R7ZHx)

Well the Iran Hostage Rescue mission, actually.

174 If we're going to divide the country in two, can we call them Libya and Labia?

175 If we're going to divide the country in two, can we call them Libya and Labia?

Posted by: horny cartographer at April 08, 2011 04:04 PM (wAQA5)

I'd prefer Conservative-ya.

176
I don't follow your logic. DOMA is the law of the land as we speak, and as such, the Federal Gov. which includes the Military therefore does NOT recognize same sex marriage and the benefits that come from sam sex marriage. And as of today, those are the facts.

What's so hard?  The President has declared that he believes DOMA is unconstitutional, and thus by definition NOT the law of the land.

177 174 If we're going to divide the country in two, can we call them Libya and Labia?

Posted by: horny cartographer at April 08, 2011 04:04 PM (wAQA5)

 

I think the proper subclassification is Majora and Minora IIRC...

178

@148: "Why would you think this? Obama is all about his ego and being the "smartest guy in the room"."

Hey, with regards to Iran, Egypt, and Libya, he is the smartest guy in the room.  He promised to always be on the side of Islam, and with those 3, no matter who he backs, he is.

179 Nevergiveup,  I'd love to continue this, but its 0030 here and I have a briefing at 0800 to be at.  Have a good night!

180 What's so hard? The President has declared that he believes DOMA is unconstitutional, and thus by definition NOT the law of the land. Posted by: Alex at April 08, 2011 04:06 PM (kwNeL) Fine but that is ONLY his opinion. He is not a King. DOMA is the law of the land and will continue to be until it is legally overturned.

181 If we're going to divide the country in two, can we call them Libya and Labia?

Posted by: horny cartographer at April 08, 2011 04:04 PM (wAQA5)

 

I think the proper subclassification is Majora and Minora IIRC...

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 08, 2011 04:07 PM (XBM1t)

Too confusing with the islands of Majorca and Minorca right across the Med.

The actual old names of the two halves are Cyrenacia and Tripoltania.

182

"The key word in that sentence? Had." - Dang at April 08, 2011 02:50 PM (TXKVh)

 

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I'm inclined to believe that this was  no accident, either.

Given that we now know so many of the "rebels" we're fighting for pledge allegiance to Al Qaeda & can't be trusted, it was either 1) strategically very wise or 2) a fortuitous screwup that NATO applied some random kinetic action on those stolen tanks now lest they be used against Western forces later.

183 What's so hard?  The President has declared that he believes DOMA is unconstitutional, and thus by definition NOT the law of the land.

Posted by: Alex at April 08, 2011 04:06 PM (kwNeL)

Hello?  Ajudication??  WTF rules change allows the Executive to determine which federal laws he believes are constitutional.  If you (anyone) believes that, challenge the law in court, up to SCOTUS.  Not by Executive Order (fiat).

184

@177: "I think the proper subclassification is Majora and Minora IIRC..."

Or Primus and Secunda.

185 From Ace: "Yes, it would be better if the rebels won, but they're not strong enough for that. All we can do is keep Qadaffy from winning. And that's all we should do." ... Gotta disagree with you on this one, Ace. We never had a horse in this race. a) support Qadaffy b) support some people who we keep referring to as "rebels", rather than look into what group or groups they are affiliated with. c) none of the above I take "c" since, by all indications, some of these so called "rebels" were shooting at us not so long ago. I am reasonably sure, based on what little we know, that, were they not busy with Gadaffy at the moment, they would not think twice about shooting at us again. In other words, both side in this war have engaged in terrorist acts against us. Why are we supporting either of them? Or conversely, neither is strong enough to take the other out and, as such, could never do a damn thing to us... without a fuck of a lot of arms and support... which, Obama, in his infinite wisdom, is now giving them. Our involvement in this nonsense, IMO, is nothing more than another amateur hour, incompetent attempt at appeasement. None of the players was interested in bombing anyone before and most of them have practically been sucking Qadaffy's cock for the past several years. Why the change of tune, huh? There is NOTHiNG in this for us. Whomever wins, still means instability in the region and the oil supply. If oil were the cause, we'd have gone in full blast and turned the place into our 51st state in about 5 minutes. The only reason is this administration (and it's European buddies) completely unfounded and endlessly discredited belief that "If we be nice to them, they'll be nice to us". You know, EXACTLY like Chicago Jesus said throughout 2008 and before. Let the fuckers kill each other. They'll be less of them to try and fly more planes into our cities.

186 Ace: It isn't that we shouldn't take sides in civil wars, it's that in this case both sides are Islamofascist. We don't want ANYONE to win. So if we hit both sides? Maybe this IS the way to go. I'm all for ground troops to kill both Ghaddafi and the al Qaeda "rebels."

187 From Ace: "Yes, it would be better if the rebels won, but they're not strong enough for that. All we can do is keep Qadaffy from winning.

And that's all we should do."

...

Gotta disagree with you on this one, Ace. We never had a horse in this race.
by: Damiano at April 08, 2011 04:15 PM (3nrx7)

In the late 50s early 60s when they were building the subdivision I grew up in, the city leaders were apparently entranced with regard for another rebel leader fighting against a dictator nobody liked. They named the major road through the middle of it after the leader of the rebels.

Its still named Castro Lane to this day.

188 >>Yes, it would be better if the rebels won<< Would it? Please show your work.

189 During the 1948 Israeli War of Independence, an Israeli mechanized force broke into the Egyptian rear area in the northeastern Sinai and drove around blowing stuff up for a couple of days. During this operation, they were strafed by Israeli aircraft - who had no idea there were Israeli forces in the area, and were further confused by the fact that the mech force was using many captured Egyptian vehicles. S... happens. However, ISTR pictures from the early days of the rebellion showing rebel crowds climbing over tanks and being embraced by tank crewmen. So the fact that the rebels have tanks shouldn't be complete news to NATO.

190 @188 Excellent point. One of many problems we have these days is that people get their education from Star Wars. Call someone a "rebel" and they're automatically considered to be the good guys who are being repressed by an evil, mass murdering dictator.

191 Well, we know that a Democratic War would be much different because it wouldn't be done by George Bush.

192 I'm holding more and more stock on my conspiracy theory that Obama engaged in this misadventure strictly to drive up the price of oil for his belief in AGW.  More civilians and combatants are being killed during this "civil war" now under NATO than when it was just the rebels and Qadhafi.  Either Obama is thee dumbest person in the world not to see such an obvious outcome of an air war OR he deliberately planned this outcome.

193 Even I know the rebels had tanks.  There was video of them driving captured tanks around on various web sites, including, I believe, Al Jazeera.  What incompetence!

194 Stalemate would be the best option.  Imagine if the Iran-Iraq war were still going?  See?  Makes sense.

195

I have to disagree. The split would be a worst case scenario.

Two countries with what would become long standing animosity, lowered standards of living (islamist breeding ground, yes, worse than now), and a trickle of oil where once there was something approching a regular output.

A split would be uber-bad.

196 Did they really leave the US flag off the tail of Air Force  1?