1 when he asked for conservatives, he counted a grand total of three.

They were awarded a yellow star emblem to wear.

2 Speaking truth to power!Preach it brother!!

3 Can we stop calling it science?  It isn't.

4 More of this, please.  Maybe if enough people within these kinds of groups start pointing out the bias, the public will start educating themselves about the actual facts.  Or, as a close second, start ignoring everything anyone in those groups is saying.

5 when he asked for conservatives, he counted a grand total of three

Who were promptly led away to the killing fields.

6 Next your gonna tell me that Municipal Unions lean left?

7 Hey social psychologists, thanks for taking the heat off us for a change. 

8 Those three self-identified conservatives are fooked.  They'll be drummed out asap.

9 Next your gonna tell me the UAW and University Faculties all lean left.

10 Whale Oil Beef Hooked.

11 that 7 inches of new snow outside is warming the planet.

12 I wonder how many pretended to be left or centrist out of fear?I bet there actually were more conservatives,not many though.

13 There's something particularly satisfying about your sign-off sentence there: I've never seen those words arranged together like that before, and I doubt I ever will again.

14 Not rocket science.  People who are conservative generally tend to think of psychiatry as crap, so very few conservatives go into it.

Unfortunately, conservatives ignoring psychiatry has caused a lot of the problems our society now endures.

15 9 MMMMMM,sweaty boobies.

16 Does this include scientists who have been trotted out as deniers of Global Warming too?

17 16 These were psychologists,not psychiatrists.Big difference.

18 His name is Haidt, so this is an example of hate speech, n'est ce pas?

19 The worst part about how liberal the professorial ranks have become is that they just can't shut the fuck up about it. 

They're so blind to the possibility that another academic might not agree with them that they simply cannot contain themselves and STFU.  My first job interview (faculty job) was littered with partisan political statements and inappropriate questions.  I probably could have sued the asshole running the search.  And every single faculty meeting I suffered through invariably had some asinine partisan politics injected into it.  I cannot fathom how hard it must be in the humanities and social "sciences" -- it was bad enough in a hard science. 

20 Robin of Berkeley at American Thinker has written some stuff roughly on this topic.
 
It's an eye opener.

21 19 16 These were psychologists,not psychiatrists.Big difference.

Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2011 11:27 AM (TMTBg)

Yeah, it's even worse.

22 "Charlie Brown's Dildo."

Now that's just not right.

23 Follow up study: "Water -- is it wet?" (My suggestion for a study: Do lefties have the critical thinking skills of banana slugs, or far far less?)

24 This guy is clearly one of the brightest in his field, and will soon be collecting unemployment checks.

I avoided discrimination by not logging onto the NYT web page.

25 Nice dildo, Chuck.  Me and Marcy would like to borrow it.  Is that okay, Chuck?

26

Have no fear! Olby will straighten it all out on Al Gore TV

 

NEW YORK Â— Keith Olbermann, who last month abruptly left his MSNBC talk show, is headed to the Current TV public-affairs channel.

Current announced Tuesday that Olbermann will host a nightly prime-time news and commentary show. His program will begin later this year.

Olbermann will also serve as chief news officer and have an equity stake in Current Media, the network led by former U.S. Vice President Al Gore and businessman Joel Hyatt.

Current is now revamping its little-seen schedule. The addition of Olbermann could raise its profile among viewers.

 

Yes, with this move they can go from 2 to 4 viewers

27 Don't cut them any slack.  They know they are discriminatory.  That's the attraction of Liberal Club.

28 O/T: Do any of the Texas Morons have the text of Gov. Perry's State of the State speech?  Or has it not been released, yet?  I cannae find it on the inter-tubes.

29

Sociologists and psychologist are generally uptight progs who look at the world through an exclusively emotional lens.

Conservatives like to get beyond all the psycho-babble, and tackle life with the practical.  

This is why so many people on the left are on anti-depressant drugs.  They actually think the government should make life perfect and that happiness is something they should feel 100% of the time.  They have no mechanism in place to deal with depression and hardship.  Take a pill, raise a tax, pass a bill, blame the evil “other”, kill off evil "corporations" and life will be perfect.  My psychologist told me so.

 

30

A little somethin'-somethin' for the New York Times to chew on:

I got somethin' for the NYT to chew on, and it's not a thought....

31 We all accept this kind of shit and are unsurprised by it.The fact is,shit like this is killing us,we are losing because of this.We let them rule academia and the consequences are terrifying.

32 Keith Olbermann, who last month abruptly left his MSNBC talk show

Yes, firings can be quite abrupt.

33 also, anyone who used the term 'statistically impossible' disqualifies himself from being a scientist. how can people whine about conserving energy when 'social psychologist' is somehow a paying job?

34 If you don't pass the lube, you sir, will be the worst person in Gaia!

35 21 The worst part about how liberal the professorial ranks have become is that they just can't shut the fuck up about it.

It's not just faculty.  Liberals/leftists in general do this in mixed company all the time.  They just cannot comprehend that someone else would possibly disagree with them, the enlightened ones.  They can't help themselves.

36 Kiss this dude's tenure goodbye.

37
12 that 7 inches of new snow outside is warming the planet.

Posted by: typical scientist at February 08, 2011 11:23 AM (xdHzq)

It's true! It's true! You just watch, in about a month or two, it'll be warm enough to melt the snow, and in about 4-5 months it'll be downright sweltering.

Global warming sure works fast......

38 That article from American Thinker reminded me of a scene from Reaper where the Devil tells Sam that he invented psycho-therapy so "the wicked could justify themselves". It was classic. I miss that show.

39 He'll never get tenor.

40 41 They will make him a soprano.

41

when he asked for conservatives, he counted a grand total of three.
They were awarded a yellow star emblem to wear.

I'm pretty confident that  among social psychologists, liberal Jews if not a majority, were a large minority.  I also find it odd that social psychologists have so little introspection into their own psychology.  The pattern of thought of their own "tribe" should have been obvious to them. 

42

It might be heresy to say it but blog communities turn into social-moral communities. Look at leftists blogs. They are universally supportive of science that supports their notions of the way that they think. Dissention is not tolerated. Now the hard part, look at the conservative blogs, the same thing but less vicious.

You'll see the same thing with non-political topics. I visit a cruising forum where people have their favorite lines and ships and they are vigorously defended. Critical opinions are attacked and positive comments are fawned over. It's natural, we just try to keep it polite.

43 I asked 'Well what is going to happen to those people that we can't reeducate - that are die hard capitalist?' And the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated. And when I pursued this further they estimated they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers. And when I say eliminate I mean kill . . . 25 million people."

44 It's a good thing the media isn't biased, otherwise we'd never by able to report this.

45 Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2011 11:32 AM (TMTBg)

It is not just academia. We ceded the centers of culture to them and we wonder why we have been loosing the culture war for the last 40 years. They own the music business, the movie business, most of TV, and Education. Our only saving grace is talk radio.

46 Posted by: Speller at February 08, 2011 11:37 AM (J74Py)

And exactly how well can you describe the back of your own hand?

Really, most people are very blind to that with which they are most familiar.

47

The question Dr. Haidt asked was for a show of hands of who was liberal, libertarian, and conservative.

But what his audience heard was: who is "normal", "fringe", and "ignorant".  Most of these learned people have never given their core beliefs any more thought than that, having always lived in an environment that would punish them for coming up with the wrong answer.

It's like how my SIL loves to call me a Nazi when I disagree with her.  I finally pointed out to her that, on the contrary, in Nazi Germany she would have certainly been one among the thousands of starry-eyed fraulein lining the streets, throwing rose petals as the Great Leader drove by... and I would be waiting to be hanged. 

I could tell from the look that flashed across her face that she too knew it was true, but she recovered her smug composure quickly, and I am sure she has put that brief instant of accidental clarity out of her mind by now.

48

16 Not rocket science.  People who are conservative generally tend to think of psychiatry as crap, so very few conservatives go into it.

Unfortunately, conservatives ignoring psychiatry has caused a lot of the problems our society now endures

  

That's why R. Lee Ermey's "Mamby-Pamby land" commercial for Geico is so hilarious. All good humor is rooted in the truth.

49 And exactly how well can you describe the back of your own hand? Really, most people are very blind to that with which they are most familiar. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 08, 2011 11:39 AM (8y9MW) I'm a right wing reactionary who believes in the USof A right or wrong. When I look at myself in the mirror I got no problems with what i see.

50
I asked 'Well what is going to happen to those people that we can't reeducate - that are die hard capitalist?' And the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated. And when I pursued this further they estimated they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers. And when I say eliminate I mean kill . . . 25 million people."



There goes that damned snowbilly with the eliminationist rhetoric again.

51 47 Exactly,we joke about it but is a huge liabilty.

52 That's a nice retirement speech the guy gave. Oh, he didn't know it was his retirement speech?

53 when he asked for conservatives, he counted a grand total of three And two of those were a guy listening to the game. Touchdown!

54 re: 45 Nice quote, Cherry P. McCain could've won if he'd just worked the cozy relationship between Ayers and Barry. Damn, it is far too early in the day to be this annoyed.

55
Skunk Napolitano is declaring the borders to be secure?



Who ya gonna believe? Me or your lyin' eyes?

56 56 If they were listening to football during the conference they WERE conservative.

57 how about that Pakistani on trial for beheading his wife. That's a nice story, eh? Posted by: Soothsayer, You, and a dog named Boo at February 08, 2011 11:44 AM (Mei2x) Well at least they found him guilty.

58

This is why so many people on the left are on anti-depressant drugs.  They actually think the government should make life perfect and that happiness is something they should feel 100% of the time.  They have no mechanism in place to deal with depression and hardship.  Take a pill, raise a tax, pass a bill, blame the evil “other”, kill off evil "corporations" and life will be perfect.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at February 08, 2011 11:31 AM (0fzsA)

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes!

59 Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2011 11:42 AM (TMTBg)

We Conservatives are so inept when it comes to the culture war. We are just now understanding it.

60 So the 2 poor dummies who raised their hands and identified themselves as conservative, were they taken out and executed?

61 We Conservatives are so inept when it comes to the culture war. We are just now understanding it. Posted by: Holger at February 08, 2011 11:45 AM (YxGud) We're just waiting for the Biathlon part when we can use our guns

62 Posted by: nevergiveup at February 08, 2011 11:42 AM (0GFWk)

My comment was in response to a "how come they don't see it in themselves" question.  And, despite your own self-awareness, most people are actually very blind to themselves. 

I wish it weren't true, but it is.  I would say it is even true of many Conservatives: people who are Conservative by habit and rearing, but haven't given their beliefs any form of critical review.

63 62 There are people with genuine problems who require treatment with antidepressants.

64 Any bets on how long this Mr. Haidt will have to wait before waking up to find a horse's head in his bed?

65 My comment was in response to a "how come they don't see it in themselves" question. And, despite your own self-awareness, most people are actually very blind to themselves. I wish it weren't true, but it is. I would say it is even true of many Conservatives: people who are Conservative by habit and rearing, but haven't given their beliefs any form of critical review. Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 08, 2011 11:46 AM (8y9MW) OK got ya.

66 66 Of course,those are the "conservatives" who voted for Obama.

67

We Conservatives are so inept when it comes to the culture war. We are just now understanding it.

Yup. It's not all politics and winning elections.

Pragmatists are trying to conform to the culture as it is, in order to get elected.

The real winners are changing the culture itself, out from under them. Doesn't matter who gets elected.

68 68 Nah,they are weenie libs,they'll just drum up an ethics complaint against him.

69 They will make him a soprano.

Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2011 11:37 AM (TMTBg)

Serves him right for singing with 1,000 shrinks in a bathroom.

70

Psychiatry and social psychology are not the same thing.  Psychiatry deals with mental health, social psychology analyses the behaviour of groups.

Social psychology is a useful political/economic tool.  By it's nature, social psychology would be more interesting to people who want to control/direct large masses of people in a certain direction.

71 Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2011 11:47 AM (TMTBg)

Actually, I think many of them voted for McCain, or stayed home.

72 Whereupon they set upon him with great screechings and bitch-slaps. Then they ate him.

73 OT: Obama quote
the benefits can't just translate into greater profits and bonuses for those at the top. They should be shared by American worker

Does this mean that Arianna will be sharing the $315 million with the thousands of her bloggers that wrote for free?

74 @67

Yeah, I'd like to chime in.  I don't think we accomplish much by making sweeping statements about who is in therapy or on meds or who pursues psychology or psychiatry as careers, for that matter.  My dad is as conservative as they come and he spent his career working as a psychiatric social worker, mostly with juveniles and criminals.  Now it's certainly true that he faced discrimination in the workplace because of his political beliefs, I'm not contesting that, but I think it's counter-productive to suggest that there is no value in psychology or psychiatry. 

75 Bias is for little people.

76 There are people with genuine problems who require treatment with antidepressants.

Posted by: steevy at February 08, 2011 11:46 AM (TMTBg)

There are also many more people who are medicated and don't really need to be.

77

Ugh, Academia.  Local State U. had a meeting last night to "discuss" all the vote fraud that's been going on at the campus polling station. Commuter kids registering dorm addresses the day of the election, etc. 

Of course, the few Republicans in attendance were largely shouted down. This is the same school that "accidentally" sent out 6,000+ e-mails encouraging all recipients to vote Democrat. Anyone imagine the consequences if an NCAA program "accidentally" committed 6,000 violations? They'd be shut down. But that's sports, this is just the Democratic process.

78 Take it a step from there, prof, and consider that synonyms for left handed are "crooked, dishonest, duplicitous, fraudulent, hypocritical, insincere, lying, perfidious, sneaky, swindling, treacherous, tricky, two-faced, two-timing, underhanded, untrustworthy," etc. whereas synonyms for right handed include "what ought to be, what should be; fitness; summum jus., justice, equity; equitableness; propriety; fair play, impartiality, measure for measure, give and take," etc. Reach into your mind thoughts, prof, and discover what must be an original theory about the origins of party directional affiliation. 

79 People who are conservative generally tend to think of psychiatry as crap, so very few conservatives go into it.

Ahem!

I give you the Hammer.

80 82 Not disputing that,agree wholeheartedly.

81 If liberal is a mental disorder, then who's running the asylum?

82 3 Can we stop calling it science?  It isn't.

Posted by: huerfano at February 08, 2011 11:20 AM (2pEj7)

The social scientific method:

Identify a desirable political outcome.

Develop a hypothesis based on that outcome that purports to explain human behavior.

Collect and cull data that would support the hypothesis.

If the data does not support the hypothesis, then there is a flaw in...the data and new data must be collected.

See also Science, Climate.

83 87 If liberal is a mental disorder, then who's running the asylum?

Posted by: Cherry π at February 08, 2011 11:54 AM (+sBB4)

We got rid of the asylums back in the 60's or 70's.  Remember?

84 I think it's counter-productive to suggest that there is no value in psychology or psychiatry.

I am not saying that what they do is useless.  I am saying that what they do is easy.

85 I love how they hide everything out in the open now. Their actual conspiring is you just being paranoid because it's settled science that conspiracy theories are the kooky ramblings of Birchers, Beck watchers, and Alex Jones tinfoil hatters.

Pay no attention to that Journolist thing, or East Anglia, or the MFM instantaneous groupthink...

86 This isn't news.  The soft "sciences" have always been infested with liberals, because they are more subjective in nature, so incompetent liberal retards can hide their ineptitude and stupidity in "peer review" - and they get to call themselves "scientists" and "intellectuals", which is truly offensive.  In addition to that, conservatives don't bother going into lots of these areas because they are near worthless areas of study.  Some contain a bit of intellectual interest, but not enough to warrant anything more than a few classes, not the joke that we have of full departments of these idiots.  But ... Hah-vahd and Princeton went to war with each other over Cornel West, who's an idiot to the nth degree ... but he makes guilty whites feel good about themselves, even though he drags every institution he's associated with into the gutter.

87 I'm not contesting that, but I think it's counter-productive to suggest that there is no value in psychology or psychiatry.

No value is perhaps an extreme statement, but minimal value is certainly true.  I would liken them to medieval Plague Doctors - some things work, most things don't.

What probably works in psychology is for someone with marginal problems to go in and find someone willing to listen and offer impartial advice. 

What probably works in psychiatry is for people to prescribe treatments with a history of working to people with mental problems.

Absent from all of this are the silly ideas (subconscious, hierarchy of needs, etc) which psychology is based on, and which influences everything from education to what we consider aberrant behavior.

88 "And every single faculty meeting I suffered through invariably had some asinine partisan politics injected into it"

I'm not an academic but I've noticed this in all sorts of other odd contexts.   It must be some kind of insecurity, yes?  They've just got to be validated all the time.  Which tells you something.

89

"I am not saying that what they do is useless.  I am saying that what they do is easy."

How does that make you feel?

 

90 Anyone imagine the consequences if an NCAA program "accidentally" committed 6,000 violations? They'd be shut down. But that's sports, this is just the Democratic process.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 08, 2011 11:51 AM (xMT+4)

Unless, of course, they are playing in the BcS nat'l champ game.  In that case, they blame it all on the dad and sweep everything else under the rug.

91 We got rid of the asylums back in the 60's or 70's.  Remember?

Curse you, Ronald Reagan!

92

We got rid of the asylums back in the 60's or 70's.  Remember?

Reagan closed them in the '80s.  That's when we got the explosion of homeless people.  It's probably a coincidence.

On more time:  Social Psychology is the study of group behaviour.  It's about manipulating masses of people by studying what they react to and how to trigger a desired reaction from a group.  That's why so many Leftists are interested in that particular field.(it has nothing to do with mental health)

Psychiatry is the study of individual mental health.

93 Social Scientist Discovers That Social Science Is Biased To The Left

and Earth is not the center of the universe.

When arrested by the Inquisition, he was heard declaring that he "just didn't expect them."

94 When I was in college, the looniest loonies were psych majors. Go figure.

95 98 Many seem incapable of seeing the difference.

96

“If a group circles around sacred values, they will evolve into a tribal-moral community,” he said. “They’ll embrace science whenever it supports their sacred values, but they’ll ditch it or distort it as soon as it threatens a sacred value.”

Nah.... would NEVER Happen!

97 What's the difference between this room and NYC?

98

Reagan closed them in the '80s.  That's when we got the explosion of homeless people.  It's probably a coincidence.

Wow, the Commiecrat narrative was initially that he did it as Governor in the 1960's. How did he manage to do what are state and local matters on the federal level?

99 Did you mean heresy or hearsay? Social scientists aren't best known for their original thoughts.

100 What are these "Cuns-Irv-A-Tives" you speak of?

101 I am saying that what they do is easy.

You have to listen to people you don't care about whine about there minuscule problems. It's like plumbing, it's not hard, I just don't want to do it. I see myself handing it much the way Lee Ermey does in the Geico commercial.

102

How does that make you feel?

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 08, 2011 12:01 PM (xMT+4)

Like sending every social scientist a bill for their unconscionable breathing of oxygen.

103 Conservatives aren't social.  How is that our fault?

104
We Conservatives are so inept when it comes to the culture war. We are just now understanding it.



True. And that's one reason why Breitbart's Big Hollywood is such a bugbear to the leftists. They're not used to us conservatives attacking them.

105 Liberals/leftists in general do this in mixed company all the time.  They just cannot comprehend that someone else would possibly disagree with them, the enlightened ones.  They can't help themselves.


As the only conservative on one side of my family, I've had to sit through this discussion at the dinner table repeatedly.  It is usually followed by poking fun at the poor, fat Wal-Mart shoppers, who are too stupid to shop at better, more expensive stores.

106 O/T: Fucks News is doing an NBC Frontline-style scare treatment about last year's Killer-Toyotas-Are-Products-of-Evil-Greed story.

Their "reporter" admits that a new gubmint report probably won't show any mechanical or electronic flaw in Toyotas that made throttle stick -- of course they won't blame voter driver error -- but they keep hyping the possible Stunning News of Toyota malfeasance and playing clips of owners weepily blaming their cars for crashes.

"Fair and balanced" my ass. FNC is becoming the TMZ of journalism. Soon, they'll be right in there with the NY Slimes and MSLSD as frauds of the highest order.

BTW: I do not like Toyotas, would never own one. But I have experience and knowledge of the subject, and am all too aware that the weakest link in automobile safety is the fucking greedy ("Oh, a crash! Who can I sue?") incompetent drivers.

107 We Conservatives are so inept when it comes to the culture war. We are just now understanding it.

What do you mean?  I know you guys are all hepcats.  It's people like will.i.am who are totally Squaresville.

108 Here is my scientific hypothesis: there will always be liberals because it is in their DNA.  At some point in our distant past group-think was an evolutionary advantage.  My theory is based on the idea that throughout much of history if you didn't show enough allegiance to the king, or perhaps worship the correct deity, you might not have lived long enough to reproduce. 

109 Posted by: NC Ref at February 08, 2011 12:13 PM (/izg2)

You know, I marvel at these "lonely conservative" type stories- my family is mostly fairly conservative, with just a few weirdos thrown in for good measure (my ex-army, assistant HS principal brother, for instance) and they mostly keep their traps shut when politics come up because a) they don't like being that out-numbered and b) they couldn't win the argument anyway.

That said, I don't envy you, and you have my sympathy.

110 ...but I think it's counter-productive to suggest that there is no value in psychology or psychiatry. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2011 11:50 AM (pW2o

Ditto.  I think if such a discussion must be had it should focus not on the value of the fields themselves, but rather on the people who seek out those services.  Face it -- sometimes people face hard times and need to talk to someone.  Even conservatives!  In those cases, psychiatry and psychology are genuinely beneficial.  Making it seem like only "weak" people seek out such services creates a very unfortunate stigma that alienates individuals who would otherwise find great solace and rejuvenation through counseling.

It's when people seek out these services constantly for every little problem they encounter that it becomes ridiculous.  Every mental or emotional difficulty does not require anti-depressants or stimulants.  But there are people who are going to go to their doctor and say, "I'm depressed, prescribe me some Zoloft," the same way there are parents who go to their pediatrician and say, "Little Jimmy keeps coughing, and I want you to prescribe him an antibiotic RIGHT NOW!" even if it's nothing bacterial.  They want the tangible sense of holding a little piece of science in their hand that will Make People Better^(tm), and they won't be dissuaded by puny things like COMMON SENSE. 

"Instead of taking anti-anxiety medication, how about you try talking to your teenager?  Explain the boundaries you've set and outline the punishments she will face for crossing those boundaries.  Then make sure you stick to those rules."

"Oh, but doctor, that's so HARD!  She'll HATE me! 

"Remember, you're the parent.  You're not her friend; you're her mother.  That means making the tough decisions."

"I can't possibly!  My nerves are shot and I'm an emotional wreck!  Just give me the pills so I can handle it."

Those are the people who misuse the system, and who usually end up with their shrink on speed dial. 

Anyway, as was mentioned in an earlier comment, "social psychology" studies groups, not individuals.  It's a very different discipline.

I honestly think all the social sciences could do with a healthy infusion of conservatives.  We'd bring in a lot of fresh viewpoints and common sense.  You can only understand so much about human behavior at a mass or individual level when you're observing it through a narrow ideological lens.  If there'd been some more conservatives (or even centrists) on the review board for the DSM 5, I don't think you'd have seen so many frou-frou disorders getting the stamp of approval!

111

Wow, the Commiecrat narrative was initially that he did it as Governor in the 1960's. How did he manage to do what are state and local matters on the federal level?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at February 08, 2011 12:08 PM (ujg0T)

He didn't, the ACLU did, when Reagan wasn't even in office. This was covered in detail on this morning's Mitchell thread.

But the lefty narrative says he had to have done it because he was a dirty grubby Republican, so that's what gets reported by the newsliars and corrupt and stupid teachers, so that's what you heard.

112 Posted by: pitythefool at February 08, 2011 12:15 PM (BjQSh)

Here's my competing hypothesis:  There will always be liberals because Men fear the idea of a Just God who will judge us for our sins and iniquities; therefore they will invent stories to make themselves feel better.

113 They are Bigots. They need to be called out on it. I wish I had the energy to do it more. Bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.

114 79 @67

Yeah, I'd like to chime in.  I don't think we accomplish much by making sweeping statements about who is in therapy or on meds or who pursues psychology or psychiatry as careers, for that matter.  My dad is as conservative as they come and he spent his career working as a psychiatric social worker, mostly with juveniles and criminals.  Now it's certainly true that he faced discrimination in the workplace because of his political beliefs, I'm not contesting that, but I think it's counter-productive to suggest that there is no value in psychology or psychiatry. 

Posted by: Y-not at February 08, 2011 11:50 AM (pW2o

 

A million thanks for saying this....  We harangue our own out of the soft sciences, history, psychology, law, journalism, the arts, music, and the entertainment fields and then wonder why we're losing the culture war.  Whining about it doesn't discourage liberals from entering the fray, it merely ensures we have no input.  Those conservatives who are left are isolated in the professions, and have little to no support on the outside.

We're like rural Chinese villagers who've been encouraging female infanticide for decades, and then can't figure out why there are no women in the village for our son to marry. 

115

94 "And every single faculty meeting I suffered through invariably had some asinine partisan politics injected into it"

Try working in government.  Not elected office, but just the bureaucratic every day workings of government.  I can't get through a staff meeting without someone making a comment about Sarah Palin being stupid, John Boehner being a stooge, or George W. Bush being a war criminal.  I once piped up and said that I couldn't stand Nancy Pelosi because I thought she was an insane, narcisstic clown, and the looks I got were PRICELESS.

116 Social scientists aren't best known for their original thoughts.

Posted by: Brian at February 08, 2011 12:08 PM (sYrWB)

I have to disagree.  Social scientists have come up with such stupid, worthless, and obviously incorrect, ideas that no one on Earth would have thought to have publicly aired them before.

A mathematician named Sokal decided to show how stupid sociologists were (and how pathetic their journals were) so he submitted a joke paper to 'Social Text' that was couched in neat-sounding mathematical language, ""Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity", but was nothing but total crap.  It was published, as sociologists (and most social scientologists) love to publish scientificky-sounding papers to show how scientificky they really are.

This should remind people of the "paper" that the Indonesian Imbecile co-authored (whatever that means in this context) that pathetic paper with Tribe: "The Curvature of Constitutional Space".  LOL.  This from the guy who speaks of "profit and earnings ratios" and thinks that he can convince people that his health scare would "reduce your premiums by 3000%" - which proved that he probably scored around 420 on the math section of his SATs and likely can't do simple arithmetic with fractions.  But, to the left, he's a genius.  'Nuff said.

117 Posted by: MWR at February 08, 2011 12:18 PM (4df7R)

I've found that most Conservatives (that is, most that I know- take it for what its worth) use "counselors" instead of psychologists or psychiatrists- at least until the counselor says "you may have a real chemical issue, and I can't help with those.  Go see Dr. X."

118 I do not like Toyotas, would never own one.

On the other hand, I have been happy with every Toyota I've owned, although the '85 LB Pickup was the worst handling vehicle in a turn at speed I've every owned.  I had to learn not to go my normal twice the yellow speed on the ramps.

119 Their "reporter" admits that a new gubmint report probably won't show any mechanical or electronic flaw in Toyotas that made throttle stick -- of course they won't blame voter driver error -- but they keep hyping the possible Stunning News of Toyota malfeasance and playing clips of owners weepily blaming their cars for crashes.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at February 08, 2011 12:15 PM (Ulu3i)

Yep, exact same thing that happened to Audi, with the added bonus that after GM became Government Motors, anti-Union Toyota became an Enemy of The State, which made them all the more juicy a target.

I tend to dislike Toyotas as well, but not because they're mechanically unsound or the company is careless (the opposite is true), but because of their ergonomic choices, general boringness and the fact that they always seem to be in my damned way wherever I go, clogging the fast lane, making weird lane changes, not knowing where they're going, etc.

Obviously that's the drivers, not the cars, which adds a little anecdotal evidence to the "it was the drivers" hypothesis.

In the end, after the damage had been done, that was the conclusion about Audis as well.

120 That's how Carl Jung wound up on the shit list. He mocked his buds, for calling their new profession a science. Adler and Freud were pissed!

121 Posted by: toby928™: Free nickless the still-banned (99.174.64.43) at February 08, 2011 12:21 PM

Toby, I've driven literally hundreds of Toyotas over the last 25 years, and have recommended them to plenty of people.

My dislike is personal. Nothing at all to do with quality, engineering, safety or reliability. They just don't interest me as many other cars do.

That I wouldn't own one doesn't change the fact that millions do, and generally made the right choices for themselves.

122

We're like rural Chinese villagers who've been encouraging female infanticide for decades, and then can't figure out why there are no women in the village for our son to marry. 

Posted by: La Mauvaise New Yorkaise at February 08, 2011 12:19 PM (8uZ8A)

This times a thousand!

123 In related news, water is wet.

124 'Social Psychology is the study of group behaviour'


So what is Sociology, then?  That's a real hotbed of leftie postmodernism...invented by la France!

125 127 Yeah,I don't care for Toyota either,but they get my sympathy for being screwed by the gubmint.They had those whiny commercials "we are spending $1 milllion a second trying to fix the problem".I hate when corporations just capitulate even when they are in the right.

126 In the end, after the damage had been done, that was the conclusion about Audis as well.
Posted by: Merovign, Bond Villain at February 08, 2011 12:24 PM

Yup. The "unintended acceleration" thing was about as true as reports of Osama Obama's love for America. Which is to say not at all.

Audis are, in fact, among my favorites. I have driven them -- including the Evil Death Audis -- at speeds and under conditions they seldom face in the real world. No problems, ever, but lots of fun.

As cars for someone who likes cars -- as opposed to those seeking transportation devices -- I'd take Audis over Toyotas any day. Judged by consumerist standards, they are at a minimum equal.

Okay, if I could find a clean Toyopet Crown Deluxe you can bet I'd buy it....

127 131 Maybe per minute or hour?I forget.

128

#114 

Or their mothers could have dropped them on their heads when they were babies.

129 I've found that most Conservatives (that is, most that I know- take it for what its worth) use "counselors" instead of psychologists or psychiatrists- at least until the counselor says "you may have a real chemical issue, and I can't help with those.  Go see Dr. X."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 08, 2011 12:21 PM (8y9MW)

Exactly!  That's been my experience.  Though psychologists can't prescribe medicine; psychiatrists can.  I'd say most of the psychological, rather than psychiatric, fields fall into the realm of "counselors." 

130 "I think it's counter-productive to suggest that there is no value in psychology or psychiatry. " I couldn't agree less. It's the only branch of medicine that creates its own diseases. It has no more value than astrology or phrenology or reading the I Ching. Confusing either with a core science is ridiculous, and treating them as anything other than mildly interesting is more than either field of study deserves. You could pick someone at random out of the phone book to figure out what the hell's wrong with a person and they'd stand a far better chance of coming up with a useful reply than anyone in any of the alleged social sciences. Charlatans, frauds, snake-oil peddlers, used car salesman at least at some level realize their minute relevance. Folks with PHDs in the social sciences have no idea.

131

Or their mothers could have dropped them on their heads when they were babies.

Posted by: Brian at February 08, 2011 12:37 PM (sYrWB)

Nah.  My mother dropped my sister on her head into the diaper pail when she was a baby, and she's as conservative as they come. 

Though she also pulled a (not in use) Fry Daddy off the kitchen counter onto her head when she was three or four, so perhaps the concussive force from that counteracted any crazy liberalness from the earlier fall?

132 The leftward turn of our universities is a deliberate and planned phenomenon. The foundations have used their wealth to bribe universities to this end. It's all in the book Foundations by Rene Wormser. The goal is to replace individualistic America by a more easily controlled society that begs for socialism (to be taken care of by our elite overlords who have funded and designed our modern education system.)

133 Academia and Journalism (and the government bureaucracies in general) have become hostile to non-leftist ideas, for a variety of reasons, but it's true that they are. It's not juts "well-known" but demonstrated repeatedly on both anecdotal and actual large-scale study levels.

Most of us have experienced it at one point or another, I have in academia and some work in a few different levels of government bureaucracy.

Part of the reason is a deliberate choice by the political left to concentrate on certain professions they thought would gain influence in the long-term - that's well-documented, too. Once they were in the majority, peer pressure took effect, especially in the case of younger people trying to get in.

Most young people don't have the confidence to stand up to ideas that surround them, look at the inane fashion trends that swamp teen years and always have (at least in modern times). Conservative youngsters are encouraged to leave these fields, subtly or angrily, and most do. People with no particular preference just get used to being surrounded by these ideas and parroting them, as that's rewarded.

The left has taken advantage of social phenomena like this for decades because they are *interested* in excluding other ideas and squeezing other people out of power until they're the only ones left. It's an alien concept to most on the right (at least the American right), which is why we suck at it. Most of us just don't care that much about what other people want to think, live and let live.

Except the left has no real concept of the "let live" part. Oh, they can say the words, but they can't allow it to happen.

And so we end up in a position of only fighting back when we notice that they're trying to do something to us (which is why the right got tacked with the label of "reactionary" despite the fact that the left's thought process fits that tag better). Which, practically by definition, means we lose.

So we have a 14 trillion dollar debt, thousands of government offices eating away at us, our schools have become moderately successful indoctrination centers, and our press corps upwards of 90% dedicated to managing leftist campaigns (from inventing stories about Palin and hiding Obama's past, to hit jobs on enemies of the left (Toyota, land developers, Republicans in general, Honduras).

We're kind of boned, now that I think about it. We probably need to be more aggressive about countering the bullcrap, but most of us have lives in addition to (or instead of) politics, for an awful lot of the left (especially in academia, bureaucracy and the MBM) it IS their life.

Somehow we have to counter all that part-time. Sucks.

134 Reagan closed them in the '80s.  That's when we got the explosion of homeless people.  It's probably a coincidence.

BULLSHIT, read the Reagan thread.

135 I dated a cute 'n sexy, little shrink who had been a Nun. Wrap your mind around that one.

136 Dissent is not tolerated. Now the hard part, look at the conservative blogs, the same thing but less vicious.
You're one of those Carnival Cruise Lines freaks, aren't you, Max?

137 Give that man a cigar, err government grant......

138 We're kind of boned, now that I think about it. We probably need to be more aggressive about countering the bullcrap, but most of us have lives in addition to (or instead of) politics, for an awful lot of the left (especially in academia, bureaucracy and the MBM) it IS their life.

Somehow we have to counter all that part-time. Sucks.

Posted by: Merovign, Bond Villain at February 08, 2011 12:46 PM (bxiXv)

THIS.  Sadly, this.  The way I figure, conservatives are the "doers" in society.  We actually get things done.  Liberals are the "thinkers" who spend all their time daydreaming about happy things and talking, talking, talking, to the point that no one else can get a word in edgewise.  Conservatives tend to ignore the talking and daydreaming because we're busy living our lives and generally making things happen.  But anyone who hasn't yet decided on an ideology (*cough*stupid kids and college students*cough*) or who have already had basic indoctrination into leftist ideologies through their parents and pop culture get sucked into the endless void of lefty chatter until all original thought is repressed in service of leftist talking points. 

Sucks is right.

139 As cars for someone who likes cars -- as opposed to those seeking transportation devices -- I'd take Audis over Toyotas any day. Judged by consumerist standards, they are at a minimum equal.

Posted by: MrScribbler© says: no bailout for Nickless and Logprof at February 08, 2011 12:31 PM (Ulu3i)

I simply find Toyotas boring.

C&D or Automobile magazine, many years ago, compared the Supra (last gen) to a Porsche and a Ferrari - and they said, by the numbers, the Supra is almost as good as the others, close enough that most drivers couldn't tell. But the drivers could tell, the Supra was deader, less interesting, less reactive, less fun to drive. And it looked like a melted bar of soap.

They came to the conclusion was that the problem was compromise - the design model at Toyota was consensus, and it produced something without any truly exceptional qualities.

Even Volvos are more interesting than Toyotas, but definitely less reliable.

Of course, I've bought an RX-7 (still have it) and Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo (3000GT clone) (wish I still had it despite its flaws), so there you go. Oddball me.

Also, as a side note, for a similar reason, factory wheels suck. Because they compromise, pretty much everybody but the exotics sell cars with wheels that are ugly, heavy, and entirely uninspired. It's like a tax on people who have taste.

140 I guess Reagan must have emptied Canada's insane asylums too then seeing as he's responsible for all of this. /sarc

141 Me thinks that once too often with her fingers when Toby928 was a baby, his little sister scooped that gooey stuff out of the soft spot on top of his head.

142 Even Volvos are more interesting than Toyotas, but definitely less reliable.

I always thought Volvos were ugly and unreliable Soccer-mom cars. I would much rather have a Toyota than a Volvo.

But my last 3 vehicles have been Ford trucks. Those were preceded by Fords as well, just not trucks.

143 Since we are moving into a car thread the car I would really like to have now (within reason) is the two-seater Mazda convertible which was meant to be cheap, but everyone has to pay above list price for.

144 “If a group circles around sacred values, they will evolve into a tribal-moral community,” he said. “They’ll embrace science whenever it supports their sacred values, but they’ll ditch it or distort it as soon as it threatens a sacred value.”

He pretty much nailed the Zealots of the Church of AGW with this statement, except for ascribing to them any moral component in their groupthink processes.

145 I always thought Volvos were ugly and unreliable Soccer-mom cars. I would much rather have a Toyota than a Volvo.

Posted by: Vic at February 08, 2011 01:03 PM (M9Ie6)

To some extent it depends on the model. I have an AWD turbo wagon that was a purchase of convenience, but damn, you could fit a house in that car. Handles surprisingly well (not a sports car, just way better than you'd expect) and goes like a stabbed rat.

And, of course, it's invisible.

The more I work on it, however, the less I respect the engineers. Kind of like having the needless complexity of a BMW without all that German quality control. Also, they seem to have defied the laws of physics as there is nothing on the car that can be removed without having to remove something else first.

146 149 Since we are moving into a car thread the car I would really like to have now (within reason) is the two-seater Mazda convertible which was meant to be cheap, but everyone has to pay above list price for.

Posted by: Vic at February 08, 2011 01:05 PM (M9Ie6)

Miatas are too small for me. I'm all elbows and knees in one. My older RX-7 is just right except for headroom, I plan to install new seats.

147 If you haven't read the linked NYT article, check out the comments. It's an unending series of remarks like "There aren't any conservatives 'cause they're too dumb!" and "Social Psychologists are too smart to be conservatives!"

It's like a bunch of fish saying "Water? What water?"

148 It's like a bunch of fish saying "Water? What water?"

Posted by: Trimegistus at February 08, 2011 01:16 PM (/y1t0)

Ironically, the cause of the problem (aggressively reinforced groupthink) is also the reaction to the problem.

Which is why we have the problem, of course.

Thena gain, this is the comment section at the NYT, we're not talking about the general public here, these people are more like Andrea "Memory Hole" Mitchell.

149

  Newer cars with their manifold engineering advances would be profoundly MORE interesting, if during the "improvement " process the personality factor hadn't been edited out.  New vehicles are merely efficient transportation modules, with the visceral appeal of a dead tree stump.  They serve the purpose of getting from A to B--and nothing else.


  Driving is supposed to be FUN--something the older ( read 40's to 70's) cars supplied in spades. Not only that, but they were distinguishable from one another, not a trait shared by anything currently produced. I much prefer the honest and simple charm of, say, a '49 Ford. or Olds, or ANY other make than the newest example of  engineering excellence.

 Gonna cut this short, there's a lengthy rant that y'all probably don't want or need to hear.

 But that's my view, not likely to change, so laugh or sneer away..

150   Newer cars with their manifold engineering advances would be profoundly MORE interesting, if during the "improvement " process the personality factor hadn't been edited out.

I agree with most of what you said except that I would add made so you could work on them without $50,000 worth of special tools, computers, and diagnostic devices.

151 They're so blind to the possibility that another academic might not agree with them that they simply cannot contain themselves and STFU.

So true.  I can't count the times a faculty colleague has slipped in some off-the-cuff remark bashing Booosh or conservatives without even considering the fact that I'm an infiltrator in their leftist stronghold. 

152

"Making it seem like only "weak" people seek out such services creates a very unfortunate stigma that alienates individuals who would otherwise find great solace and rejuvenation through counseling."

Agreed. I also find it unhelpful when those fields are disparaged or marginalized as "soft" sciences, and it is insinuated that anyone who might be interested in pursuing these fields is more akin to a weak spined liberal and really doesn't belong with the rest of us tough conservatives.  

I'm not denying that the proportions of liberal v. conservative in these fields are outrageous. That's part of why this study is helpful.

But when we take this tack of pissing outside our tent, all we do is alienate  some like minded conservatives who just might have been helped, or had someone close helped by these practitioners. 

153

@ merovign #139

Good post.

154 I agree with most of what you said except that I would add made so you could work on them without $50,000 worth of special tools, computers, and diagnostic devices.

Posted by: Vic at February 08, 2011 01:41 PM (M9Ie6)

Most modern cars can be worked on with a standard tool set, maybe 1 or 2 specialty tools, and a laptop and a $50-200 adapter.

It ain't as easy as it should be, but it's easier than all that. I do it all the time. I grump about it, but it can certainly be done.

But when we take this tack of pissing outside our tent, all we do is alienate some like minded conservatives who just might have been helped, or had someone close helped by these practitioners.

Posted by: RM at February 08, 2011 02:24 PM (1kwr2)

I'm not sure it's tactically unsound, see what the left does 24/7, but it certainly isn't nice.

Except when I say "soft science" I'm not referring to leftism but to lack of standards and poor policing of statistical and scientific integrity, regardless of politics - it just seems that, whether it's because of the ideology or because teh fields are so dominated, the left gets the brunt of that one (social sciences, climastrology, etc). Medicine / pharmaceuticals is less obviously left (though I have my suspicions) but rife with poor methodology and practices.

And thanks for the comment about post 139...

155 "There aren't any conservatives 'cause they're too dumb!" and "Social Psychologists are too smart to be conservatives!"

Are they kidding?  If I were to have a full frontal lobotomy, the piece of my brain that they take out could get a Ph.D. in Social Psychology.

156

A friend of mine, 25-year army vet, is going 'back to school'...Social Science major.  Says he's got to bite his tongue ("chew it to a bloody pulp"), as any conservative opinions are...not welcome to discussions.

I couldn't do it.

157

Since this is becoming a car thread, anyone heard any decent rumors if GM is going to stay in the compact (Colorado/Canyon) truck business or get out of it like Ford did when the Ranger was cancelled?

Reason I ask is I've got an '02 GMC Sonoma (same thing as an S-10) with 177,000 miles on it. Runs fine, the 4.3 V6 is siad to be good for 300,000 miles or so, but I just need to know if there will be a GM product to replace it with when it comes time.

I don't WANT to have to go Japanese, but the Toyota Tacoma is US made anyway.

 

158 I guess Reagan must have emptied Canada's insane asylums too then seeing as he's responsible for all of this. /sarc

For the left Reagan will always be Melkor. Bush is Sauron and Palin is Thuringwethil. But I probably need to get out more and meet actual people.

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