1 There's nothing in Hunstman's background that even suggests he would adopt his own tax policy...

2 Jon Huntsman, you're crazy.

You said I could do that.

3 Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

And Jon Huntsman willfully worked for him.

4 Republicans need to run on a plan like this, that way if we win in 2012, we will have the mandate to push through a transformational program like this.

5 That will give something for the SCOAMF to think about on his official trip to Bali.

Yes Bali!  Among one of the most important of American interests.  I for one welcome the SCOAMFÂ’s official trip to Bali.  Now that heÂ’s rested.  Because of his vacation.  To MarthaÂ’s Fucking Vineyard.

6 Yeah, great idea Huntsman. Now go fuck off.

7

>>>Personally, I'm not a creationist or an ID guy but I don't care if a President is. It's simply not something that a President deals with on a day to day basis, so who cares what someone personally believes?

 

50 bucks says this is a question at the NBC debate.

8 The plan would be a tax increase for most middle class taxpayers.  How about a candidate come out with a list of government departments they would close?  We don't have a tax problem, we have a spending problem.

9

>>>"To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy,"

He'd not see himself among us, then, but among our betters. I've no use for the foppish bounder, except perhaps as a target cheek for my best kidskins.

10 Any man who willingly goes to work for Obama is not a man I trust.

11

So let Perry or whoever just adopt this plan, maybe with a few tweaks, and we're good to go.  Not sure who this Huntsberg fellow is though.

SCOAMF.

12 John Huntsman?  Never heard of him.

13 Who is this Hunts-Man ypu speak of?

14 If Huntsman wanted to really get this idea off n' running, he'd have a website with a calculator that people could put their numbers in and get a total tax owed that they could compare to what they had to pay recently.  This would go a long way into PROVING that this is a better idea, if, indeed, it is.  Nothing like little trinket websites like that to make the positive benefits of such a tax scheme palpable to the average joe.

the sinner,

Patrick

15 I think it's not a bad plan, and I think Perry should declare he will take a serious look at it as President.

16 Ramesh Ponuru pointed out something that didn't even occur to me, because I didn't imagine anyone would do it -- this plan (it appears) also eliminates the child tax credit. If you believe parents are overtaxed as it is (since they have far less disposable income than the childless, as so much income is being used to raise the next generation), then it's doubly bad policy to take away deductions and credits for children, which only partially offset the big costs of kids.

17 I realize that undermines the main thrust here -- NO deductions, none, zero, zip -- but sometimes you have to make one exception.

18

Huntsman has adopted this pose of being too good for the GOP and running not so much against Democrats like Obama but as the hero saving the Republicans from themselves and their low class voters.

Ding ding ding ding.  We have a winner. 

That is a fascinating plan since it's the closest I think we'd come to an actual flat tax.  I know there's much wailing about how the loss of the mortgage interest deduction will utterly destroy what's left of the housing market.  I'm of the burn baby burn view on that, sorry to all those in the Horde with homes.  Look, the real estate market is like an alcoholic/drug addict, with having to hit utter bottom in order to recover.  The faster the bottom is hit, the better.

19 Posted by: CoolCzech at September 01, 2011 12:06 PM (niZvt)

Perry will more likely use the Pawlenty plan as the basis of his plan (15% corporate tax rate to get industry growing)

20

This brings me to the question of why Huntsman is such a non-starter for so many, myself included

Obama's ambassador to China.

21 As a scientist, I have been trained not to trust scientists.  That's exactly how science works.  Nobody gets papers published (well, almost nobody) with the approach of "I can't show you the data, but just trust me on this."  I'm a scientist, so you'll have to trust me on this.

22 My Moment of Philosophical Zen... I'm off to the eye doctor to order a pair of glasses. I've worn contact since I was 17, because glasses make me look like the ultimate Nerd. (Girls only discovered me after I ditched the glasses) Now I've developed some serious Dry Eye issues, and am always using eye drops of all sorts and even an ointment at night. Yet contacts are just uncomfortable nowadays. So it's back to the glasses for me, I guess. I think I've begun that reversion to childhood brought on my age that the Sphinx's Riddle to Oedipus refers to ("What has 4 legs, then 2, then 3?" Man! He crawls on all fours as a baby, walks on two as an adult, and needs a cain as a Senior). The process culminates in Death, of course, that can be thought of as the moment of Un-Birth... instead of returning to a dark womb, we disappear into a dark casket interior forever. Oh well... Next Step, Diapers, I guess... I'll be sure to keep you guys posted!

23 It'll never happen; the capital gains tax is in place to protect bad investments.

24 You know, I have a couple of tax deductions (kids).  I would give them up to have a flat tax rate.  I would also give up the mortgage deduction.  I have a real problem with the tax code being used to influence behavior rather than strictly raise revenue. 

25 I realize that undermines the main thrust here -- NO deductions, none, zero, zip -- but sometimes you have to make one exception.

Posted by: ace at September 01, 2011 12:08 PM (nj1bB)

Ace, the choice to have children must assume that there will be less "disposable" income.  I personally would like to discourage child-rearing by folks for whom doing so would necessarily create a need to for taxpayers to subsidize them.

We got way too many people out there pumpin out the pups without taking full financial responsibility.

You wanna have 8 kids?  Fine with me, as long as you can support them without increasing my tax burden.

26 The other candidates should say thanks, Jonny, we'll take it from here.

27 Any man who willingly goes to work for Obama is not a man I trust.

28 I am black, therefore I must vote for Obama even if it screws me over..................

29 Huntsman is like a guy with no sense of taste in the kitchen, frantically competing to win the cooking prize. "I know, I'll throw in some salt." "No, too salty, now some sugar." "Hmm, no. Throw in some rosemary." "Too herby, throw in some apples and beef broth." "Now maybe some caramel to complement the apples and some fish to cover up the overpowering smell of beef." "Flour, that's it, flour. To thicken it up." "Vinegar will cut the thick greasy feel." Huntsman 2012: Because throwing spaghetti at the wall is not a sign of desperation.

30 The headline says it says it all.

Oh my!

31 You Huntsman h8ters are missing out on the historic opportunity to hear the first State of the Union speech delivered in perfect Mandarin Chinese.

32 It's a good idea. Huntsman is personally unappealing, and he can't drop out of the race soon enough, but it's still a good idea. And it would never pass Congress because the mortgage deduction and the child tax credit are sacrosanct middle class subsidies. Maybe if we had a suicide Congress willing to lose their jobs in order to do the right thing, but with the current political class, no way.

33 One of the front-runners had better co-opt a lot of these, or the race could get veeeeery interesting.

34 This is pure showmanship. The plan is DOA in Congress and it's pretty harmless at this point to put forth an unrealistic proposal. What interests me is the reaction from the liberal media to their darling "centrist" Republican's drastic move to the right ... Don't be fooled. Huntsman is a leftist Trojan Horse. Keep the gates locked.

35 Agree.  John Weaver alone is a deal breaker.

36 I think some of the Republican candidates were invented decades ago by the Italian playwright Pirandello. You could rename the current political drama "Six Candidates in Search of a Campaign."

37 Okay, assuming he would actually be willing to follow through with that tax plan, is he willing to cut spending?  If not, what's the point?

38 ace, why would you leave the child tax credit in place? 

39 I think it's not a bad plan, and I think Perry should declare he will take a serious look at it as President.

He should.
He should also suggest that Huntsman would be a good candidate for Chinese ambassador post after he's elected.

40 ace, why would you leave the child tax credit in place? Posted by: alexthechick at September 01, 2011 12:23 PM (VtjlW) Ya know how much kids cost?

41

39 alex

 

people will start killing their write offs?.............actually that is not too far fetched........

42 Would this actually yank the mortgage interest deduction or grandfather those in mortgages? There's my dealbreaker right there. It's like changing the terms of my loan midway thru.

43 I don't think poor people, aka welfare leeches, make any use of the child tax credit. They don't pay taxes, so what good is it to them?

44 Also since I pay twice for my kids schooling (by my choice, but still) it would be a big owie to lose a deduction for them

45 Ya know how much kids cost?

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 01, 2011 12:25 PM (i6RpT)

hookers & blow are expensive too.  a deduction on that stuff would greatly help me now that I'm unemployed & unemployable.

46 Christie says FEMA needs more money without offsetting cuts elsewhere. (Argue about budget cuts later.) HA Headlines.

47 Christie is way wrong on this. Maybe they shouldnta let all them new fancy places get built in flood zones, eh, big guy?

48 Posted by: Anon VII at September 01, 2011 12:26 PM (Ou4YC)

Reason #452: Why Christie Should Stay in NJ.

49 Posted by: nevergiveup at September 01, 2011 12:25 PM (i6RpT)

A lot of things cost a lot of money. Why should the tax code favor some over others?

I get a tax deduction just let's people keep their own money but why favor some things over others? This is how we get into all sorts of trouble with government picking winners and losers.

As long as the plan results in a next tax cut for everyone, why not do it through lower the rates rather than favoring some tax payers over others?

50 Why Christie Should Stay in NJ. Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:28 PM (LD21B) Real good italian food

51 OT/ why the fuck do people have to eat with their mouths open? I can every mouth-churn coming from cube next to me. Aeerrgh!

52 Real good italian food

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 01, 2011 12:29 PM (i6RpT)

Wasn't that #1?

53 As long as the plan results in a next tax cut for everyone, why not do it through lower the rates rather than favoring some tax payers over others? Posted by: DrewM. at September 01, 2011 12:28 PM (Ccb4c) OK now that I realize my 2 kids are 21/24 and that deduction will soon be gone for me anyway, I'll switch sides in that argument. How's that for a principled Stand?

54 The child tax credit is biased against the single and lonely.

55 As long as the plan results in a next tax cut for everyone, why not do it through lower the rates rather than favoring some tax payers over others?

Posted by: DrewM. at September 01, 2011 12:28 PM (Ccb4c)

I think the child tax credit is actually a good idea, because we do want the middle class and up to have kids, and I don't find it objectionable to lessen the load on them when they do.

56 .that he alone holds the truth of what a Republican should be and screw anyone, including actual Republicans

Well it certainly isn't the way to win a primary or get your base fired up to support you. McCain was essentially handed his primary by virtue of the fact he was running against two others of questionable conservative credentials, the third decided to throw the early races, and the fourth couldn't be bothered to even get in the race in a timely manner. If we hadn't had two decent candidates throw their primaries we might not have been saddled with Mav.

Huntsman ought to understand that their are plenty of candidates that actually appeal to the base; But he just can't contain his condescension. Knowing that he can't contain it when he *really* needs to, makes me wonder how aloof he really is.

57 Hey Drew,

Thanks for the reminders on why Huntsman is,a nd should be, my last choice among the Republicans.

58 A lot of things cost a lot of money. Why should the tax code favor some over others?

Just to be clear, my question is actually straight forward - why support this credit?  There's no agenda and no loaded meaning behind it.  It's meant to be an opportunity to explain exactly what Drew says, why favor this over something else. 

59 Huntsman is grasping at straws.  He knows this will appeal to a wide swath of the electorate.  He would never have the power to implement the plan.  If he did become president (shivers)  it would be so watered down by the time it emerged from Congress it would be a complete waste of time. 

60 Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:32 PM (LD21B)

Ok but there are lots of things "we" might want people to do and a lot of them are nice and proper things. Where does it stop?

It becomes a bidding war and before you know it...you have our current tax system.

61 Beck came right out pushing huntsman.  then we heard that BO asked him to be a diplomat for china in order, according to political junkies, "to taint his brand knowing he might mount a presidential challenge".  throw in the "but he's a mormon" crowd.  (reasons why huntsman went to the back bench)

have you seen this article from WaPo and Erik about how those ivy kids in the WH managed to capitalize on the president's "power play" and how politico and NBC are saying "it's all good"?  link

62 Yeah, it's a character issue. 

When his name was first floated, I really wondered about him.  I was willing to overlook him working in the Obama administration because on the face of it it seemed reasonable that a guy with his background would want to take that position.  But I have seen zero evidence that he accomplished anything good - for the country - as U.S. Ambassador to China.  And I have some serious doubts about conflicts of interest owing to the Huntsman Corp's dealings with China.  So that was strike one.

Then looking at his record here and learning the Utah culture (which is to say the culture of an LDS super majority) and listening to Utahns, well, I have concluded he won the election because of his dad, who is loved.  But as governor, or as a politician, he has a track record of being crassly tone deaf to his constituents in favor of political expediency.  He seems worse than most politicians on that score, the school vouchers and regional cap and trade things being the most glaring examples. 

And he's a mean piece of work.  He hates Mitt because Romney won - on his merits, as far as I can see - the job that Huntsman Jr felt he should be handed (rescuing the SLC Olympics).  The Mitt had the unmitigated gall to do what is universally described (ok, so far I've met one person who just gave him a "meh" on his performance) around here as an heroic job with the Olympics.  So this whole run as far as I'm concerned is a temper-tantrum. 

There's simply something fundamentally wrong with his character.  I think he could be a dangerous president. 

63 i didn't by my house for the deduction...i bought it because i wanted it........and i didn't have four kids for the deductions......although i must say both were a bonus........but i don't give a shit if either go away.....the deductions not the house or kids.......well the kids have to leave at 18......

64 I've thought long and hard about this-and if I get reincarnated I'm coming back as a male homosexual. It just makes the most economic sense. In fact I think the whole prejudice against homosexual men started in the caveman days because the male gay couples got all the meat and had all the fun. Guys with kids and stuff and weaker partners -like females got jealous. And can you imagine having to protect your chick and the brats-how not fun was that? Plus the gay guys' caves were fab because they had a whole lot of down time.

65 Kids don't cost all that much until college. Babies (healthy ones, anyway,) are very cheap--diapers and a tee-shirt to wear, tit for lunch. A tax deduction shouldn't figure into your decision at all.

66 Anyone can say they want to cut taxes.  I want to see someone say the WILL do everything in their power to cut spending and the size of government.  Real spending, not projected spending.

67 Just to be clear, my question is actually straight forward - why support this credit? There's no agenda and no loaded meaning behind it. It's meant to be an opportunity to explain exactly what Drew says, why favor this over something else. Posted by: alexthechick at September 01, 2011 12:33 PM (VtjlW) Actually to some extend, doesn't society want to encourage people to have children up to a certain point? Especially that part of society to is productive and inventive?

68 I am sick to death of the tax code punishing me because I am married, I don't own a home (because I wasn't stupid enough to buy one in an overheated CA market), and I don't have children.  Enough already.  Blow the whole thing up and start again.  CPAs can dig ditches too or maybe get a job at Burger King.

69

61 kurious

 

how would you know....you don't listen to him...........

70 Ok but there are lots of things "we" might want people to do and a lot of them are nice and proper things. Where does it stop?

It becomes a bidding war and before you know it...you have our current tax system.

Posted by: DrewM. at September 01, 2011 12:34 PM (Ccb4c)

Not really, encouraging reproduction is about demographics, and I don't see any of the other potential "goods" from other tax deductions being on the same level. So one has to be on guard against such equivalencies, and that's really the biggest knock on any tax plan is whether we can trust those in government to be so discerning.

71 If he keeps this up, his support among his liberal supporters will evaporate and he'll have no support at all.  I speak from experience.   

72 Would this actually yank the mortgage interest deduction or grandfather those in mortgages?

Why would existing mortgages get different treatment?  Because that was "the deal" when you signed your mortgage?

When I took my job, it was "the deal" that I would be subject to a marginal tax rate of 35%.  When King Putt tries to impose a 70% marginal rate on me so I pay my "fair share", how much traction will I get when I argue, "hey man, that wasn't the deal when I agreed to take the salary I get.

No difference.  The feds can change any tax rate right out from under you.  Deal or no deal.

73 Kids don't cost all that much until college Ah you must not have kids, because that is wong. Actually FOX just had a segment on that today or yesterday about how expensive kids are way before college is figured in.

74 As for the tax code stuff, I am really concerned that the federal government, which consistently shows an inability to do simple calculations correctly, would make major changes to the tax code without understanding what it would do to individual Americans and to the country.

I am not interested in big changes to the tax code until they get spending in line.  Do some serious cutting and show me that you've done your homework first. 

75 I'm perfectly willing to give up my mortgage, charitable giving or child tax deductions, if the tax rate were low enough and if the federal government cut the oil tax, which makes everything from heating a home to the cost of food more expensive.  Letting me keep more of my own money is worthless if they're just nibbling it away in other places.

76 Posted by: at September 01, 2011 12:34 PM (k1rwm)

Isn't there some other blog you can go to?

77

Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:32 PM (LD21B)

Except that once more you are allowing the Government to help or hurt one lifestyle over another through the Tax System.

In a FREE country, the Government is neutral as to life style...

And before I even hear the 'its in the Governments interest' meme...

Governments are not entitys... they do NOT have interests.  They have Powers, and limitations, based on what WE the People wish them to have...

Explain how it is even Remotly Fair, that someone who has kids, and thus uses the School system, which is supported by taxes, Pays LESS in taxes than someone who does not have kids?

And I say this as a Parent...

The Government should not be in the buisness of telling us how to live... via the Tax code.

78 If you want to eliminate the Mortgage Tax deduction, just phase it in over 5 years- reduce it by 20% each year till it is gone. Sounds fair to me and I get that deduction

79 Ah yes the child care tax credit.  You have to love how that one has been abused by certain irresponsible citizens in this country.  I'm tired of subsidizing all of this bullshit.

80 I am very skeptical that single folks have more disposable income. I thought it was a truth that two people can live more cheaply than one by sharing costs in housing, bills, etc. I'll bet the child tax credit is a big reason many middle class households pay zero federal income tax.

81 @77
I will gladly volunteer my logins at Hot Air and Malkin. 

82

>>>Ah you must not have kids,

One of each, 11 and 10. We dress them in gunny sacks and feed them scraps. The dog lives better than they do.

Look, we are all responsible for our choices. You choose to lavish your brats with modern clothes and such middle class trappings. I choose not.

83 66 Kids don't cost all that much until college. Babies (healthy ones, anyway,) are very cheap--diapers and a tee-shirt to wear, tit for lunch. A tax deduction shouldn't figure into your decision at all.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 01, 2011 12:35 PM (rplL3)

It's a well known phenomenon across the industrialized world that people are delaying having children later then they used to and having less children. As we see from the demographic crises in Europe, that's not a sign of a healthy society. Granted, a tax credit isn't going to resolve the causes said phenomenon, but I don't see it as a net negative for society.

And I sure as hell don't see it being at all equivalent to, say, tax deduction on the purchase of a yatch or something.

84

trust scientists on global warming

This is why he's a non-starter--he's an uncurious nitwit.  (P.S.--SO IS MITT)

Anyone that blithely dismisses the mountain of evidence in the other direction is not capable of being President because he or she is an idiot.

85 Eliminating the mortgage deduction won't fly.   Most people buy their home while doing tax management.  At some point you make enough money where you wee them taking a good portion of it and then decide you need to do something to stop the bleeding.  The tourniquet is generally a mortgage and the purchase of a home.

If they eliminate that deduction it will kill the housing market.  Except for those who aspire to be land lords and land owners.

A house in my friend's parents' neighborhood went for a million and a half under value.  Now folks are talking about sending their keys to the bank as they are officially under water.

86 If they eliminate that deduction it will kill the housing market.

That's a feature, not a bug.

87 As long as the plan results in a next tax cut for everyone, why not do it through lower the rates rather than favoring some tax payers over others?

Without a mortgage tax deduction, even if you cut taxes so that a family takes no tax increase, you will provide over a six figure financial benefit to strategic default on your average home, and by suddenly removing a a major incentive to home ownership, you will make a sudden left shift to the demand curve for housing placing the market further upside down and further encouraging default. The shock to the financial system would threaten to bring a healthy economy into collapse, what would happen to ours would be truly frightful. DOOM would just be the cheese on that sandwich.

I have layed down time and time again a reasonable plan for removing the home mortgage deduction without precipitating disaster. Yet people keep concentrating on *getting rid of it* without really coming up with a plan that isn't more destructive than armed assault on major economic centers.

88 OMG!

89 Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:37 PM (LD21B)

How many people's ultimate decision on whether or not to have child has turned on a $1,000/yr tax credit?

I'm not saying it doesn't help, I'm just saying if you eliminated it tomorrow the same number of babies would be born in 9 months and every year after as would have been if the credit were there.

It's simply a way for politicians to get credit for giving you your own money back. Cut the rates and let everyone keep it from the start.

90

If they eliminate that deduction it will kill the housing market. 

Yup.  That's a positive to me as I noted above. 

 

91 You choose to lavish your brats with modern clothes and such middle class trappings. I choose not. Posted by: spongeworthy at September 01, 2011 12:40 PM (rplL3) I presume your kidding or are you just an asshole?

92 Posted by: Romeo13 at September 01, 2011 12:39 PM (NtXW4)

Heh, I would be all for eliminating the public school system, but /pipedream.

If we could actually get the income tax rate to be flat and low, then that would be fking great. Not holding my breath, though.

93

Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:41 PM (LD21B)

Question is however, does the tax policy play into peoples descisions to have children?

It certainly had NO bearing on my choice...

94 WTF is a yatch?


So for a healthy society we should subsidize have children??  That is all kinds of stupid.  How many times do you read a story about a woman who has "x" number of kids by multiple fathers and she gets a tax refund but pays no taxes?  My Lord, some of these people live better than me.  It's wrong, period.  You have children because you want them not because they are a line item deduction on your 1040 form. That is a healthy society.

95

92 nevergiveup

 

why can't sponge be both?

96 Single people used to have disposable income.  Now, however, they have to buy a condo for tax reasons and most have between and hundred and two hundred grand in student loan debt so they are paying that off.  then is you want to live and have any fun, there goes the money.  no savings among my friends, nothing, nada.

97 why can't sponge be both? Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 01, 2011 12:45 PM (IpiZb) I suppose that is possible

98 It's simply a way for politicians to get credit for giving you your own money back. Cut the rates and let everyone keep it from the start.

Posted by: DrewM. at September 01, 2011 12:43 PM (Ccb4c)

Sure, but are you arguing that there is no societal, or even state, interest in encouraging reproduction of the next generation?

I know, it should be done culturally. The only problem is that we don't seem to have that culture anymore.

Ah well, whatever we do with the tax code, it's just fiddling around the margins as long as spending is unchanged.

99 OMG!  SCOAMF!

I'm sensing a pattern here ...

100 no body has to buy anything.........it's a choice.......

101

If they eliminate that deduction it will kill the housing market. 

Yup.  That's a positive to me as I noted above. 

You think. That much of a huge deleverage of the housing market would in our current condition, destroy the union.

102 A house in my friend's parents' neighborhood went for a million and a half under value.  Now folks are talking about sending their keys to the bank as they are officially under water.
Posted by: at

Not my problem.  They were stupid enough to buy in an overheated market and this is what happens.  Boo fuckin' hoo.  I shouldn't have to pay for their bad decisions.

103 Now, however, they have to buy a condo for tax reasons and most have between and hundred and two hundred grand in student loan debt so they are paying that off.

Who forced them to do either?  You want disposable income?  Purchase a home you can afford, and go to a cheaper school.

104 You wanna have 8 kids?  Fine with me, as long as you can support them without increasing my tax burden.

Once upon a time, the 8 kids would be working to support the family as soon as they were able, either on the farm, hunting and gathering, or by other means.

Ah, the ironies of history.  At least the old way taught some responsibility.

105

Question is however, does the tax policy play into peoples descisions to have children?

It certainly had NO bearing on my choice...

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 01, 2011 12:44 PM (NtXW4)

Well, the cost of having children does play into people's decisions when to have children.

106 95. UGH! but we aren't talking about the EITC. we are talking about a deduction on taxes paid. NONE of the people you're discussing pay taxes, so they don't benefit from the child deduction. They may get money from EITC or somesuch other program - which I agree totally, let's get rid of! But you can't equate these things! You all are getting so off-target. We need to SHRINK the government. That is all we should be talking about. Not killing the middle class, which is hanging on by the skin of their teeth anyway right now. Siccing the childless or older folk against families is just helping the damn statists

107

Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:43 PM (LD21B)

I'm actualy in favor of a National Sales Tax... and get rid of ALL other taxes...

It would really boost Exports, as our companies would not have any tax burden on those... and all imports would end up taxed by both the origionating country, and our own sales Tax...

It would also be inherently fair, as everything would be taxed at the same level, thus everyone would be paying taxes, even those who are now being paid under the table.

Also, Foreign companies would FLOCK to America to invest IMO...

Then, get rid of the NLRB, and get the EPA back to its origional mandate of cleaning up rivers and such???

Drill drill drill?

Economy would take off IMO.

108 I noted yesterday that the hedgies are buying farm land. 

I noted today that the builders are "scaling back"

the housing market is the engine for a lot of buying in this country. 

I don't know what will happen if the housing market tanks, I do know reasonable professional people who worked hard all their lives, always pay their bills, always give to charity are suddenly entertaining the thought of "sending the key to the bank" on their over a million dollar NY houses.  to me that is a scary and disturbing sign.

109 if the loan interest deduction were eliminated........home prices would adjust accordingly......in other words.........down...........and that would make them more affordable.........and if people would buy what they could afford we'd be in a way better position....if you are buying something to get a credit on it later and you need that credit to afford the home..........you can't afford the home.................

110 Boo fuckin' hoo.  I shouldn't have to pay for their bad decisions.

When defaults and chapter 7's start coming in, in the millions you might be enlightened to what it means to severely shock a struggling market.

I will guarantee that it will effect you, and it will cost you, a lot.

111

OK, I confess, I'm a bit of a nerd.  So I was reading about the taxation policy of the Roman Empire.  It seems that their biggest source of tax revenue was from what we would call inheritance taxes.  The standard rate was 5% of any inheritance or legacy.  When the Emperor Caracalla raised that rate to 10% Edward Gibon stated that he "crushed alike every part of the empire under the weight of of his iron sceptre."

I wonder what would happen if we eliminated income taxes and replaced them with generally imposed inheritance taxes of a reasonable rate like 5%.  I have no idea how much annual tax revenue could be raised from such a figure but it would free business (not to mention individuals) from massive compliance costs of trying to work with our labrynthian tax code.  You keep what you earn while you are alive and once you are dead your heirs get 5% less.  Assuming the numbers crunch, that doesn't sound too bad to me.

112 No one put a gun to the single person's head and forced them to take out huge student loans.  Their choice, their problem, not mine.  Maybe they should have thought things out  before piling up that much debt to get a degree in Women's Studies or some shit like that.

113

Who forced them to do either?  You want disposable income?  Purchase a home you can afford, and go to a cheaper school.

Posted by: Slublog at September 01, 2011 12:47 PM (0nqdj)

Just remember slu, you're addressing a shithead that thinks you don't remember 9/11.  That's the level of thought going on in her head.

114 btw, there is one group that has a lot of children and they don't believe in debt or interest.  oh, they have ways to get around it but, makes you wonder if all this debt is what is preventing people from having children.

115 111 Boo fuckin' hoo.  I shouldn't have to pay for their bad decisions.

When defaults and chapter 7's start coming in, in the millions you might be enlightened to what it means to severely shock a struggling market.

I will guarantee that it will effect you, and it will cost you, a lot.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative

Mike,
I understand what your saying but after the housing market blew up in California I got tired of hearing "poor me" all the time.  It made me sick listening to everyone wanting to be bailed out for a bad decision.  Interest only? Sure, why not?  I'll buy that 1.5 million dollar home and flip it, it's all good. 

116

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 01, 2011 12:50 PM (jUZRg)

Numbers don't work because most of us don't have real wealth when we die... except maybe for a house...

We expend the vast majority of our wealth during retirement...

117 Wait, saying "who forced a person to do that" is just a ridiculous argument.  Sure, for the world we have now you can smugly say that, but for the world we had then, that was the norm, that helped you position yourself for success.  Hey all the ivy grads in the WH making nice money, participating in a very healthy housing market, would tell you that my friends and I did the right thing, even now.

118

115

stfu

119

You think. That much of a huge deleverage of the housing market would in our current condition, destroy the union.

I do think a step down approach would be the best solution, if the home mortgage interest deduction were ever eliminated.  There's as much chance of that happening as me playing center for the Knicks. 

I stand by my position that the attempts to artificially prop up the housing market are going to be more devastating in the long run.  What's going to happen when banks are forced to finally account for all the bad loans they are trying to bury?  What's going to happen when all the legal games being played with foreclosing but not really finally come to a stop?  It's going to hurt, hugely, no matter what. 

120

118

 

THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT??????????????

121 if the loan interest deduction were eliminated........home prices would adjust accordingly......in other words.........down

Right, except for...Homes are all owned by someone many of them on loans. First you take away the mortgage deduction and suddenly servicing their loan is going to cost tens to over a hundred thousand dollars more over the life of that loan, then to top it off, you will place them upside down, or further upside down than they already are with virtually no chance of recovery in their lifetime.

At that point they would be stupid to continue the loan contract. Default, and if the bank want's a judgment, file bankruptcy; You would still come out tens of thousands of dollars ahead in the long run.

Who is going to swallow all that loss?

122 If you believe parents are overtaxed as it is (since they have far less disposable income than the childless, as so much income is being used to raise the next generation)

OK, I have to laugh at this one. 

Parents are overtaxed? 

People have kids for the good of the country, is that what you're saying?  I see no evidence of that.  People have kids because, first and foremost, that's our biological drive.  They have kids because they can, because it's culturally favored to have kids by their families, communities, churches, etc, and because that's what they want to do.  In today's society, it's a choice to have kids.  I'm not seeing why I should subsidize it more than I already do by paying a disproportionate share for the services that they use.

I don't think this is the right conversation for us to be having right now.  It will lead to a lot of class warfare and finger pointing and selfish behavior.  Don't we all agree government is too big?  Let's focus on trimming that first before we screw around with this social engineering... because that's what it is.  Even undoing the social engineering that led to mortgage deductions, charitable deductions, child care credits and exemptions, and all the rest of it at this point really winds up being a type of social engineering. 

Reduce government first.

123 Part of the problem is we don't teach Jane and Johnny basic, simple economics in school anymore, even at the high school level.  It's all about esteem and "Heather Has Two Mommies" and equal outcome.  We have several generations of functional idiots to put up with now.

124 ...BTW  IVY LEAGUE MEANS THEY PAID TOO MUCH FOR A NAME NOT AN EDUCATION.........THEY BOUGHT A NAME..........THE ARE SHALLOW POSERS............

125 Sure, but are you arguing that there is no societal, or even state, interest in encouraging reproduction of the next generation?
Posted by: KG at September 01, 2011 12:46 PM (LD21B)

On a philosophical level, yes that's what I'm arguing. I'm leery of any government action to shape people's lives because it usually winds up leading to a lot of policy choices no one would ever accept individually but they get lumped together as "for the children".

On a practical level, what I'm arguing is that the way the government is doing it now doesn't really accomplish that supposed end. It's just for show. If government really wanted to encourage that in a real way it would be very draconian and totalitarian.

Basically what you're saying is, "it's cool for government to influence behavior in ways I like but I'll oppose those same tools when liberals use them.

I don't mean that as an attack, I'm just saying the line between good influences and bad is often in the eye of the beholder. I'd prefer to remove all opportunity for government to interfere in people's lives. Granted that's more libertarian than conservative but so be it.

126 Posted by: at September 01, 2011 12:53 PM (k1rwm)

If you're not going to leave entirely (being way too busy and all to take part in such nonsense as a blog-- wait, what?), you should banish the word "friends" from your vocabulary.  I'm sick of hearing about the adventures and insights of your legion of imaginary friends.

127

I wonder what would happen if we eliminated income taxes and replaced them with generally imposed inheritance taxes of a reasonable rate like 5%.  I have no idea how much annual tax revenue could be raised from such a figure but it would free business (not to mention individuals) from massive compliance costs of trying to work with our labrynthian tax code.  You keep what you earn while you are alive and once you are dead your heirs get 5% less.  Assuming the numbers crunch, that doesn't sound too bad to me.

Up until 2010 there was a federal inheritance tax on top of all the various taxes you paid during your lifetime.  I'm going off the top of my head, but I believe the high end rate scaled up to 50% at one point.   Based on prior experience, I'm going to guess Uncle Sam will not be inclined to eliminate current income taxes and just take 5% when people die.

128 It's nice to stick by your conservative tenets and criticize everyone else but the truth is you were the only folks who followed them so you are fine, for now.  Eventually, when the housing market blows up and from my perch I can see it coming, you will have to shoulder the burden of so many people just mailing the key to the bank or going bankrupt, it will affect everyone.  It's better to avoid that or figure out how to fix it.

129 Because having population replacement is so overrated.

Anyone want some booze? I just made it yesterday.

130 118

The world needs ditch diggers too. This country doesn't train in the trades anymore and that is a damn shame. I'm not that impressed by Ivy League degrees.  Just look to the ACME White House and see where these "elite" degrees have gotten us.   

131

I do think a step down approach would be the best solution, if the home mortgage interest deduction were ever eliminated.  There's as much chance of that happening as me playing center for the Knicks. 

I stand by my position that the attempts to artificially prop up the housing market are going to be more devastating in the long run.

Like I said. I've proposed dragging it out over 30 years to minimize the shock. I'm not opposed to getting rid of it. But doing it suddenly is like literally (figuratively) dropping a nuclear weapon on the economy.

132 I don't know about you folks, but I'm still smarting from losing that game of nine-dimensional chess to Obama yesterday. Man, that hurts. I mean, we were really played the way we had to back down on the speech date and all.  I don't know when I'll recover. 

133 At that point they would be stupid to continue the loan contract. Default, and if the bank want's a judgment, file bankruptcy; You would still come out tens of thousands of dollars ahead in the long run. Who is going to swallow all that loss? Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 01, 2011 12:55 PM (0q2P7) Yes I believe that would happen

134 Oh, and the following for those who don't want to crash the housing market:
It's going to happen regardless.
Nothing can stop that fact. Let me repeat that: Nothing.  Can.  Stop.  That.  Fact.  Sooner or later there are no more rabbits to pull out of the hat, hell, they're probably already out of the ones that won't bring on the real chaos.

Your only options are to let it burn now, when there's a prayer of having the resources to save something, or put it off until you have nothing left and you burn with it.  Period.

135 Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 12:59 PM (iYbLN)

I don't disagree with you, what's done is done though and we have to deal with what we all have now and believe me, it's all of our problems. 

the next big bubble will be education.

136 Posted by: Y-not at September 01, 2011 01:01 PM (5H6zj)

It was checkmate, baby.

137 129 It's nice to stick by your conservative tenets and criticize everyone else but the truth is you were the only folks who followed them so you are fine, for now.  Eventually, when the housing market blows up and from my perch I can see it coming, you will have to shoulder the burden of so many people just mailing the key to the bank or going bankrupt, it will affect everyone.  It's better to avoid that or figure out how to fix it.

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 12:58 PM (k1rwm)

The housing market did blow up you stupid troll.  The bubble burst.  The bubble everyone knew about except apparently for your shit headed retard friend who you think we need to know the opinions of.

If we really needed to know how they thought we could just bang a hammer against our skulls for an hour.

138 137 Posted by: Y-not at September 01, 2011 01:01 PM (5H6zj)

It was checkmate, baby.

Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at September 01, 2011 01:02 PM (QKKT0)

read the wapo link

139

mike

buying a house is a bet....you buy it because you want to and you hope the value goes up....well if the value goes down and you can afford the house you still pay for it......if you can't afford the house......then work out an arrangement with the bank..........but if you are buying a house because you wanted some kind of deduction and you needed that deduction...you really shouldn't own a house.........and honestly....when did home ownership become a right?  you want a home save up and buy a home............and the gov't shouldn't be involved in that in any shape or form..............and giving money and loans to imbeciles who can't even tell if they can afford something is well like giving stimulus money to solyndra..................btw....i'd like someone to show me where in my note or deed of trust it says that i can now deduct my interest...............because the contract will not have changed if the deduction is gone...............

140 the next big bubble will be education.

And that's because of the government tinkering in the student loan business just the way they stuck their big, fat noses in the housing market.  Why do you think tuition is so high?  Simple.  Student loans.  Send your kid to college!  Free money!  Don't pay back until they have a degree!  The universities saw this as an excuse to keep raising tuition year after year after year.

141 125 ...BTW  IVY LEAGUE MEANS THEY PAID TOO MUCH FOR A NAME NOT AN EDUCATION.........THEY BOUGHT A NAME..........THE ARE SHALLOW POSERS............

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 01, 2011 12:56 PM (IpiZb)

nice try.  Jealousy is a terrible thing.  They are the best and the brightest in this country.  They chose to go to the ivy league because they are the best of the best.   Geez is there anything in your life not wholly driven by being jealous of what someone else have as you sit in your house in the dustbowl of arizonia.

142

With so little inforation, it looks like two seniors with a mortgage and an income of $50K (2 on SS, small pension, some savings income), would pay $5.8K (8% * 20k + 14%*30k) in taxes.  That family probably pays less than $3K today.

The devil is in the details.  In this case, the bracket breaks and whether there is an exemption amount are critical.

In general, if there is a significant change in anything other than a decrease in the brackets %'s, there will be big-time winners and big-time losers.

The tax code isn't the problem.  No matter what the code is, people will find fault with it.  Why on earth just shuffle the deck when people will be hurt?

Government spending is the problem.  Stop the spending.

143

O.M.G.

144

Sounds like the troll went to an Ivy League school.  Sure as hell couldn't have been on its grades.  Guess Daddy dearest put up a ton of money to get his stupid princess into a "good" school.

145 (1) Get the average tax percentage by all people actually paying taxes.
(2) Get the average deduction for children for (1)
(3) Get the average deduction for deductable loans from (1)
(4) Get the average charitable contribution deduction from (1)

Then, compute new flat tax percentage = (1) - (2 + 3 + 4).
No deductions.
Most people win, some people lose.  That's life.

146 @143
+1 to that.

Look, the punitive taxes on business and investing, I can see addressing that.  But I don't think that the best time to fiddle with something as fundamental as the basic principles of the tax code is when you're in a financial crisis. 

It just kind of reminds me of Steve Forbes' candidacy.  He had these various intelligent-sounding ideas, but I never got the sense he was going to address the real root problem: the size of government. 

147 I don't have a problem with Huntsman running for the nomination ... as long as it is for the democratic nomination.  Anyone who Juan McCain's says good things about is not fit for the Republican nomination.


the Democrats have managed to get their members nominated as the candidate in both parties for the last 20 years.  It is time for a Republican to have a chance.


[Yes, I am saying that GW and his dad are not Republicans, at best they are big govt, democrat-lite, 'we better not say bad things about our enemy', throw more of the middle class' money a the problem, 'compassionate' RINOs]

148 @145
I wouldn't make that assumption any more than I would assume Obama was an exceptional student. 

149

kurious

 

it must be so very sad living in a city like ny...how big is your room? i'm sure i have closets bigger than it.........yes....i'm so jealous of people who are in debt because they went to a school in the east and were taught classes by TA's and were indoctrinated by the left...........it sucks to be me.........living in the dust bowl............oh dear......i must reevaluate my life.................i don't have any student loans...........neither does my husband...........and neither will my children.................poor us............i guess we shouldn't have bought gold either..........oh what to do.........

150 Oh, and the following for those who don't want to crash the housing market:
It's going to happen regardless.

If the housing market collapses a second time, and  I mean a serious collapse, like the first. That will destroy all investment capital in the country, destroy the finance system, plunge us into a depression, and given the current political climate, precipitate the dissolution of the Republic. If you think it cannot be avoided you are wasting your time here. There is no political solution to the problem.

I discuss here based off of the assumption that there is one. Just so I can pursue something like a solution on the way to DOOM. That does not include kicking shooting our economy while its down.

Besides if a collapse happens you won't be having little policy discussions on tax deductions.

There are bigger fish to fry other than the mortgage deduction; I would rather work on those things and get the economy on track before we deleverage the housing market.

151 Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 01, 2011 01:12 PM (IpiZb)
honey I know new york parents who took their pocket change and went down to arizonia and bought a mansion on several acres to use as a retirement home since they didn't want to go to Florida.   I'm sure you closets are huge, I'm sure you actually think you are great and have a great job and are "all that".   But you are the only one who probably thinks that. 

152 Sounds like the troll went to an Ivy League school.

She said yesterday that she "went to" higher education.  So there.

153 Don't worry. Immigration will keep up the taxpayer base.

154 149 @145
I wouldn't make that assumption any more than I would assume Obama was an exceptional student. 

Posted by: Y-not at September 01, 2011 01:11 PM (5H6zj)

Elitist snobby bitch about being from the biggest Hick city in the world.  Elitist snobby bitch about Ivy League schools.  I think its a good assumption.

155

kurious

your parents must be so proud!  i bet you have a collection of good job stickers on your wall............

156 Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 01, 2011 01:17 PM (IpiZb)

my parents chose to compete in the toughest market in the world and they scuceeded.

jealously is a terrible thing.  Hope your kiddies enjoy the U of A.  You are that selfish you wouldn't sacrifice like my parents did to send your kids to the best school they got into.   And you criticize me.  You are just like all the selfish ny liberal you despise, only worse.

157 Your parents are neighbors with Hannity and were buying you stock.  They didn't sacrifice shit for you.

158 Then, compute new flat tax percentage = (1) - (2 + 3 + 4).
No deductions.
Most people win, some people lose.  That's life.

Actually, since the "average tax" is biased so strongly by the top 5% of earners 95% would "lose".

159 151 :  So, how do you suggest it is preventable?  Given there are large inventories of housing that aren't clearing, forclosures that are in limbo for title and procedural issues (and endless ill-considered 'renegotiations'), cautious buyers, and a mortgage market that is still 100% more questionable than any sane person should accept?

How do you get out of there, aside from letting nature take its course, that isn't just delaying the inevitable?  Because if there's a way, there's a hell of a lot of folks who would love to hear it.

160

157  kurious

 

you know your meds don't work right?  might want to get them adusted.........and i'm sure your parents "love" you so much that when you take a dump they cheer and wipe your ass............i wonder when they are infirm if you will be there to take care of them......or will you use the excuse that you have a condo and no savings so they can go to state for help.......

161 Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 01, 2011 01:30 PM (IpiZb)

you keep mentioning "meds".  It's unhealthy to take meds but in your post menopausal age group I guess you need those kinds of drugs just to get through the day.

162 And btw, phoenix girl, your state was one of the states that really caused the real estate mess. You guys contributed as much if not more than California.

163 you keep mentioning "meds".  It's unhealthy to take meds but in your post menopausal age group I guess you need those kinds of drugs just to get through the day.
Posted by: at

You haven't seen anything yet you fucking bitch.

164 How do you get out of there, aside from letting nature take its course, that isn't just delaying the inevitable?  Because if there's a way, there's a hell of a lot of folks who would love to hear it.

Well my idea, would be to de-leverage US debt, by a reduction in spending, netting an increase in the speed of money, get regulation down to reasonable levels, to help spur growth, cut taxes on corporations if possible, and get the industrial sector of the US economy back on its feat, and hopefully we can get a GDP growth north of 8% a year, and use the GDP growth to grow out of the asset deficit in the housing market. It would take a decade to put it back on its feet but it at least gives the opportunity to avoid another default storm.

165 165 you keep mentioning "meds".  It's unhealthy to take meds but in your post menopausal age group I guess you need those kinds of drugs just to get through the day.
Posted by: at

You haven't seen anything yet you fucking bitch.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 01:43 PM (iYbLN)

so is that a threat against me, my state, new york.  Who are you threatening here mpfs TPT?

166 167 165 you keep mentioning "meds".  It's unhealthy to take meds but in your post menopausal age group I guess you need those kinds of drugs just to get through the day.
Posted by: at

You haven't seen anything yet you fucking bitch.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 01:43 PM (iYbLN)

so is that a threat against me, my state, new york.  Who are you threatening here mpfs TPT?

Posted by: at


Oooooo, I'm scared.  You are a useless, vapid bitch and to insult phoenixgirl like that is despicable but then again so are you at your core.  Nasty, bitter waste of human skin.  Since when did NY become your state?  Hmmmm?  Please dazzle me with your intergalactic fucking intelligence.  Put me on your dossier you c**t.  I don't use that word very often but you deserve it.

167 Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 01:51 PM (iYbLN)

she insulted me too.  YOU conveniently ignore that fact.  She's insulted me, my parents, my state, my city, my education and my apartment.  I finally hit back and stopped being nice.  I'm sure phoenix girl was the idiot on HGTV showing off her million dollar closet.  Who cares, so she has a huge closet.  When she has a huge closet some place that means she has to really compete in the world then I'll be impressed. 

I'm supposed to come here and adopt your small town, small vision provincial thinking?  

168 166 : Agreeable, but what about the housing market?  Which was, y'know, what I was asking about?

169 Yup elitist snobby stuck up skank.  Can't even pay the water bill on time.

170 Oooooo, I'm scared.  You are a useless, vapid bitch and to insult phoenixgirl like that is despicable but then again so are you at your core.  Nasty, bitter waste of human skin.  Since when did NY become your state?  Hmmmm?  Please dazzle me with your intergalactic fucking intelligence.  Put me on your dossier you c**t.  I don't use that word very often but you deserve it.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 01:51 PM (iYbLN)

What is so sad is that you think you are "all that" too.  Geez on the liberal blogs you get the uber uber crying libs and on the conservative blogs you get the uber uber angry conservatives.  Where are the moderate thinking people?

171 171 Yup elitist snobby stuck up skank.  Can't even pay the water bill on time.

Posted by: buzzion at September 01, 2011 01:55 PM (GULKT)

mpfs, pay your water bill on time.  or is it phoenixgirl who can't pay her water bill....or buzzion is it you?

I don't have a water bill.  must be part of the common charges.

172

Who's this sound like?

"They made an error and didn't credit my bill. The came here, without any warning, and shut off my water. I have two children with the flu and they are refusing to put it back on for 24 hours, "so we will learn to pay online or in person". They ostensibly told me "if you don't like it "dig a well". I'm not a shlump, this ia a nice area with nice homes and everyone has MBA"s. What kind of a company has a person answering the phone who says "go to hell, we don't care if your kids are sick and we won't talk to you to teach you a lesson?"

I'm now going to set out to find someone to help me buy 51% of their stock just so I can make sure that person gets fired!!!! "

173 You could use some small town values bitch.  We grew up with morals, values, hard work and self-determination.  You on the other hand are a whining, know-it-all stuck up c**t who has nothing but disdain for the "little people."  I'm pretty sure you work for the SCOAMF administration. 

I'll go with small town every time.  What have you every contributed to society?  Have you ever employed people?  Given back to the community?  Helped the poor?  I don't think so.  Do us all a favor and STFU. 

174  Huntsman will win the A hole of the Year award in 2012. He will MOST DEFINITELY RUN AS A "viable third party candidate"  in order to siphon off as much RINO vote as possible to enable the SCOAMF to get re-elected. You can bet on it. I take it back, He will get the grand prize of F*cking A- hole of the millenium if he succeeds with his bullshite. 

175 Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:02 PM (iYbLN)

values?  are you kidding me?  every "small town" girl I went to school with randomly hooked up with every guy she could find and then smiled when her parents came.  They were sneaks.

176

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 01:56 PM (k1rwm)

once again you are such a coward you hide your handle. we don't want you here. we don't need your mrs. NY elite attitude, your Ron paul fandom, your insults to fellow commenters that goes past policy disgreements, and your claims that you have a hundred better things to do and places to be. gtfo troll.

many of us defended you, protected you, and had nice conversations with you. But slowly and carfeully, you have turned into a troll that has nothing to do but make random links no one cares for, insults to the moronettes, and act like a snotty bitch. go home you idiot!

177 I am really calm actually, not angry at all. I'm in a great mood! It's always sunny here in Phoenix Just sad for you, kurious, for your precarious mental state, and I do hope you don't have any trouble paying your water bills or any other bills - especially not your therapist

178 I'll laugh so hard when the two-bit skank calls you an old geezer Author.

179 177 Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:02 PM (iYbLN)

values?  are you kidding me?  every "small town" girl I went to school with randomly hooked up with every guy she could find and then smiled when her parents came.  They were sneaks.
Posted by: at

So now I'm a whore?  Why thank you. I'd rather be that then what you have become any day of the week.  While you are on your daily hissy fit why don't you call me a whore on a new thread so all the morons can comment on my loose value system.  Come on.  I dare you.

180 values?  are you kidding me?  every "small town" girl I went to school with randomly hooked up with every guy she could find and then smiled when her parents came.  They were sneaks.

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 02:05 PM (k1rwm)

projecting much?

181 Oh snap Arthur

182 kurious, have you ever seen that movie "Kids"? were you in it perhaps? or maybe your mom was one of those sophisticated NY girls spreading her legs for every scumbag hipster that came along?

183

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:08 PM (iYbLN)

done, i'm posting her comment on the new thread.

184 179 I am really calm actually, not angry at all. I'm in a great mood! It's always sunny here in Phoenix

That's good to know, phoenixgirl.  Please don't let sybil get to you - trolls feed off irritation and anger.  You are living a good and better life, and have done more good for people, at least a million-times over, than this type of human debris trying to upset you ever will. 

Have a nice day, phonenixgirl, and God bless you. 

185 Just sad for you, kurious, for your precarious mental state, and I do hope you don't have any trouble paying your water bills or any other bills - especially not your therapist

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 01, 2011 02:07 PM (SB0V2)

I actually feel sorry for you. really sorry for you.  You bring up things like water bills and therapists things I wouldn't even think to bring up to anyone yet, probably these are your problems, your big issues.  You only go to a therapist if you need one.  You only take meds if you need them.  You only pay water bills if you have a home in arizonia or clownafornia.

go ahead, attack NY, attack New Yorkers, attack ivy league graduates from your little provincial world, I will always feel sorry for people like you.  You  complain about everything (a common problem of post menopausal women of your generation) but want everyone else to fix it.

186 Kratos,

You have yourself a nice sunny southern California day!!!!

187 Would rather have it wasting time down here than polluting other threads with gay porn and trig trutherism.

188

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Rick Perry Guy) at September 01, 2011 02:08 PM (yAor6)

Exactly.  Or as Shakespeare would say, the "lady" doeth protesth too much, methinks. 

189 I suppose you think I'm faking Multiple Sclerosis too.  Yup.  I looooove injecting disease modifying drugs into my body every fucking day to stay ahead of the disease.  You are pathetic.

190 I guess it's his claim that Obama's failed so-called "stimulus" should have been bigger

A Thousand Solyndras!!

191 Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:13 PM (iYbLN)

My uncle has MS.  Sorry you have MS.  He's participating in trials of new drugs and they are working.

192 193

Fuck off.  You couldn't care less.

193

Posted by: buzzion at September 01, 2011 02:12 PM (GULKT)

wait she is a Trig truther too?

194 193 Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:13 PM (iYbLN)

My uncle has MS.  Sorry you have MS.  He's participating in trials of new drugs and they are working.

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 02:14 PM (k1rwm)

Everything you say is a lie.  I don't believe that for a second.

195

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 02:14 PM (k1rwm)

what a fucking piece of shit you can be curious

196  Is this a Huntsman thread??

197 how many uncles do you have, kurious? just curious like, over ten?

198

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:11 PM (iYbLN)

awww, thank you kindly, ma'am!  I will, and I hope you do the same.

God bless you too.   And I know you've done and are doing a hell of a lot more in your life than Sybil can ever dream of doing.  All it has are petty attacks and maybe a few cats.

199 195

Posted by: buzzion at September 01, 2011 02:12 PM (GULKT)

wait she is a Trig truther too?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Rick Perry Guy) at September 01, 2011 02:16 PM (yAor6)

Oh you didn't see that link?  I think she specifically mentioned it one day to you.  See first she posts it in an ONT and we call absolute bullshit on it.  Then the next day in the Top Headlines she directed a comment at you about how we attacked her for linking the website, but didn't reveal why.  And then a few days later she again links the trig truther article.

200 194 193

Fuck off.  You couldn't care less.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:15 PM (iYbLN)

My uncle has had MS since he was 20.  He manages to work full time and people barely know he has the disease.  He never tells anyone about his MS or uses it as an excuse for anything.

201 I'm bringing in the brigade!

202

Damn, if people from AZ and CA are "provencial", what in the world is a guy from small town Texas, like me? I shudder to think how lowly I must be.

 

203

Posted by: buzzion at September 01, 2011 02:18 PM (GULKT)

I never clicked on her links. not once. she was annoying with her links as she ignored others.

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 02:18 PM (k1rwm)

right, another "friend", "relative" that happens to come in handy. hey coward, how about you stop picking on the moronettes and face us others you've been ignoring?

204 oh and my uncle who has the MS also has an ivy league degree in engineering.

205 202. Please lay off the ms lies. My mom had it for over 40 years and I got to witness what it does to a person, it's not pretty and it affects the entire family. Take a good picture of your teeth to show your dentist after we meet

206

Posted by: at September 01, 2011 02:21 PM (k1rwm)

i'm sure that's what the voices told you...

207 Fuck off.  You couldn't care less.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:15 PM (iYbLN)

My uncle has had MS since he was 20.  He manages to work full time and people barely know he has the disease.  He never tells anyone about his MS or uses it as an excuse for anything.

Posted by: at

My sister was diagnosed at 19, she is now 53.  She works full time on call 24/7 and raises her daughter.  So again STFU. 

I take it someone in your family also has the plague too?

208 since 100 comments back on topic...

Huntsman will find what comes of great ideas without "winnable" sponsors.

If indeed there were absolutely NO exceptions, NO loop-holes, NO deductions, and NO WAY for the federal govt. to turn around and impose heavy purchasing taxes "value added" (like imposing new tolls on previously constructed highways) then whether or not per income level, more power to a flat tax rate below close to 10% -- all that God ever requested.

Given a flat tax rate near 10%, home owners would be so far ahead keeping income to cover living expenses, the mortgage interest deduction is well worth dropping.

209 Your uncle doesn't talk about his MS but you do. You have no experience kurious you live vicariously through others.

210

God bless you too.   And I know you've done and are doing a hell of a lot more in your life than Sybil can ever dream of doing.  All it has are petty attacks and maybe a few cats.

Posted by: Kratos


Bwhahahahahaha!

211

Damn again, I went to a state college too! Why is this happening to me? Why God?

I awoke this morning knowing that I paid my bills, my taxes, obeyed the law, loved my family, helped my neighbors and was a good and loyal friend.

NOW, I learn that don't live in the "right" area, my education is sub-par and my life is pointless and without merit.

Won't anyone save me? Anyone?

212 So sorry Sgt. Fury it Logan's Run time for you!

213 curious, your trolling act is getting very tedious. Stop trolling.

214 Posted by: at September 01, 2011 02:14 PM (k1rwm)

Fuck off you evil bitch. 

215

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:26 PM (iYbLN)

Thank you for that! I knew someone out there cared about my plight.

216

And John Huntsman willfully worked for him.

Phreshone nails it.  And on the third comment (disclaimer: I haven't waded all the way through the thread to see if my point's been made.  If so, ignore).  I've heard Huntsman's excuses - "Oh, it's an honor to serve your country, you can't turn down a presidental request, even if he is of the other party" - every bit of bullshit he can spew.  And that's why I would never, ever vote for him.  No conservative worthy of the name would work for Preznit Stutterfuck, let alone wax orasmically about what an honor it was.  It's the same crap as McStain croaking that the SCOAMF would be a fine president.

Fuck you, Huntsman.  You're a collaborator.  Screw and stay screwed.

217

Ah here we go.  First her comment where she lies about the link.  Its comment 237

And here's the original comment she made Its comment 648

Oh and here's the double down on the stupidity by relinking it a week later.  Comment 688

218 You know Sybil, when you've pissed off one of the sweetest, most kindest people on this board (and throughout humanity in general), you know you've stepped way out of bounds. 

219

Posted by: ace at September 01, 2011 02:26 PM (nj1bB)

ace will we ever get a troll hall of fame btw?

220 wow I feel like I brought in the brigade, sucess!

221 215 curious, your trolling act is getting very tedious.

Stop trolling. Posted by: ace


Annnnnd with that I'm hitting the tip jar for a c-note.

222 And just for good measure here she is lying about why she's been criticized for posting to business insider at comment 210

223

Posted by: buzzion at September 01, 2011 02:29 PM (GULKT)

wow i'm exteremly anti-Palin candidacy and I don't buy that BS. I also would vote for her over Obama unlike curious...

224 223 215 curious, your trolling act is getting very tedious.

Stop trolling. Posted by: ace


Annnnnd with that I'm hitting the tip jar for a c-note.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT at September 01, 2011 02:32 PM (iYbLN)

mpfs, I've been reading what the evil idiot has said to you and others and I am literally seething with rage.

One of my cousins has suffered from MS most of her life.  She's one of the sweetest, bravest souls I know.

curious is the lowliest life form I've come across in a while.  Attacking me through my military son was the last straw for me.  She is evil to the core.

225 #169, good gawd, but you're full of yourself.  Nobody likes you here.  You are a nuisance.  And, for the record, you have not been "nice."

You remind me of a family member of mine, hell, even SCOAMFOTUS, it's always somebody else being mean to poor widdle you, while you mock and insult people, post silly links, make comments that are beyond inane, and expect to be listened to and, oh I don't know, maybe even worshipped because you're from NYC. 

Long walk+short pier, scrunt!

226 You left out one other part of his plan:

Tax ALL of SS benefits for everyone. Yeah, that's gonna fly.

227

#227

 

Mally posts another of his unintelligible posts displaying the good humor and intellect for which he is renown.  And it is obvious to the casual observer "that stupid is incurable and terminal" in your case only.  Most people do learn, you not at all.

 

Take your own advise and go away.

228

Capital gains, interest shouldn't be taxed at all up to a maximum of say 10,000 a year.  This would encourage saving and investment.  But the wealthy wish to prevent people from moving up hence they do all they can to tax savings and investment.

229 Wow this is soo helpful I have been trying to figure this out on my own for a long time now. Hopefully making this change will help encourage discussion on my blog.

230 >>I have layed down time and time again a reasonable plan for removing the home mortgage deduction without precipitating disaster. Yet people keep concentrating on *getting rid of it* without really coming up with a plan that isn't more destructive than armed assault on major economic centers. Yeah, But your home page SUCKS! Where IS your reasonable plan there? WTF Cobwebs and Spooky Clocks??

231 They chose to go to the ivy league because they are the best of the best. 

Dumbass.

I happen to know some people who "chose" to give up scholarships to Ivy Leage and other more prestigious technichal institutions to study at my little college.

Yeah, MIT bored the shit out of  "one of the twins" who was my roomate Freshman year but she went on to Princeton and Uof C and Yale once she hit her 20's, no?

I don't know what ever happened to the other twin...

She was very sparlkly and intelligent when I was I prospect but I don't remember her otherwise...

Her sister (the Math genius) was super cool!

Just move in, don't be obnoxious, and leave my shampoo alone.

(Okay, I will let you in on a study session in the common room but you don't know how to talk about curves yet.  So, shut up!)

232

Huntsman thats just what we need, take away deductions that benefit middle class working families and give tax breaks to wallstreet fatcats. I'm sure getting rid of the mortgage deduction will definetely help boost our housing market and help those in the brink of foreclosure.

Nothing new, just another republican trying to screw the middle class. You make it very easy to vote democrat, even if they had an actual donkey as their nominee.

 

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